121. MATT DINNIMAN RETURNS: Dungeon Crawler Carl's eighth book, Operation Bounce House, & handling fame

This week on LiteraryHype Podcast, a fan favorite is back! Matt Dinniman is the author behind the wildly popular Dungeon Crawler Carl series, which is bringing LitRPG to a mainstream audience. The eighth book in the series, Parade of Horribles, is coming this month, as is the first volume of the Dungeon Crawler Carl graphic novel series. Plus, Matt recently released a standalone novel, Operation Bounce House, and there's a few other things happening in his creative corner of the world. Join us for a deep dive into all things Dinniman, including how he's handling the onslaught of attention.

Previous conversation: Episode 94

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Operation Bounce House

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A Parade of Horribles
Operation Bounce House

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Operation Bounce House

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Dungeon Crawler Carl
A Parade of Horribles
Operation Bounce House

Transcript

00;00;06;04 - 00;00;19;12
Unknown
Hi and welcome to Literary Hype. I am Stephanie, your literary hype moment back with another author conversation for Literary Hype Podcast. Today's guest. He was big the last time we talked and that was like eight months ago.

00;00;19;15 - 00;00;21;12
Unknown
Maybe a little bit more than that. Math is hard,

00;00;21;12 - 00;00;29;10
Unknown
He was already a huge deal at that point. And now he's even bigger. It's it's blown up in massive epic proportions.

00;00;29;10 - 00;00;34;23
Unknown
If you have not already heard of the dungeon Crawler Castle series, now is the time for you to get started.

00;00;34;28 - 00;00;50;22
Unknown
Matt Denman is the author of that series, but he's also got a standalone that just came out called Operation Bounce House. So we're talking all about Operation Bounce House, as well as what to expect from book eight in the Dungeon Crawler Cartel series and some other various dungeon crawler castle things that are going on.

00;00;50;25 - 00;00;58;04
Unknown
So we're diving right in on this conversation.

00;00;58;06 - 00;00;59;23
Unknown
I have no idea what my hair looks like anymore.

00;00;59;26 - 00;01;18;13
Unknown
It looks fantastic. The hair looks great. My husband says that, and then he turns out to be a liar. See, I got in huge trouble with my wife the other day because she had something stuck in her teeth that I didn't even notice. And then I introduced her to a bunch of people, and she gets into the the bathroom in our hotel room and she's like, what the fuck?

00;01;18;19 - 00;01;35;03
Unknown
Because it was something we had eaten like hours before. And then I get in trouble for not telling it. It's like, well, I didn't notice. It's like I've gone out in public with, like, my makeup not fully blended in. And he's like, I thought you looked fine. And I'm like, you didn't see this signal? It's like, he's a very sweet man.

00;01;35;03 - 00;01;36;13
Unknown
But in our defense,

00;01;36;16 - 00;01;56;23
Unknown
we're not responsible for how you look. It's true. That is a good plan. Yeah, but. Okay, we're all ready to go. Let's just go. But since we're talking about my husband, you've actually now gotten him into fiction. That's amazing. So I because I read the first book before our last interview at San Diego, and I was like, I think you would like this.

00;01;56;23 - 00;02;13;11
Unknown
Like, I'll wait to read book two until you catch up. And he held out until after Emerald City when he met you. That's awesome. And he's like, okay. He's an all right, all right guy. I'll I'll start. He's now blown way past me. He's like, sorry. Like last night he texted me and he's like, I'm on chapter 23 of book three.

00;02;13;11 - 00;02;49;23
Unknown
And I'm like, what happened to doing this together? So what is it about your books that you feel like is bringing because you've got readership on all genders, where as this kind of used to be, like an all dude reading force? Yeah. Well, so it it's a lit RPG and it started off as a little apogee and that the genre, when I first started writing in it, and reading in it, which was the rate around 2015, you would go to the forums and it would be like 98% dudes and most of the books in the genre, when we first come out with them, we say they're little RPG, so they get introduced to

00;02;49;23 - 00;03;21;14
Unknown
that particular demographic and they don't usually leave those four corners of the lit RPG community, which at the time was still, you know, mostly male. And then we started growing as a genre, and we got more female authors and female main characters and female readers. And so it's it's a lot better now than what it was. But in addition, Dungeon Crawler Crawl itself was never really meant to be just a little PG novel.

00;03;21;16 - 00;03;51;24
Unknown
I wrote it as a book that happened to be a lit RPG. It's about a guy and a cat, and that tends to have more wide appeal, because we all know that readers in general, if you take all books, I mean, I don't know what the exact percentages are, but it's, you know, skews heavily female. And right now, with like my Patreon and stuff, I see that my readers are, as of right now, about 60% female new readers to about 40% male.

00;03;51;24 - 00;04;15;26
Unknown
And that's, that's, that's that's really great. But it's been that percentage in books overall that's still heavily skewed male. So it's not really a dude book anymore. I never really considered it a dude book. It gets called that all the time. Like if I go on TikTok and you see the dude books and it's, you know, like Red rising and dungeon crawler car and the will, the man and and I love those books.

00;04;15;26 - 00;04;20;03
Unknown
So maybe I mean, maybe it is I mean, lots of explosions and stuff like that, but

00;04;20;05 - 00;04;32;15
Unknown
I like to think it's for everybody, especially with the paperback that came out earlier this year being a Barnes and Noble Pick of the month. Like as a bookseller, we saw such growth in not just from the hardcover, which was already popping off.

00;04;32;18 - 00;04;44;11
Unknown
Yeah, use since our last conversation on camera. Right. Like things have just skyrocketed for you. How are you staying sane with all the traveling and the extra attention on you right now? Oh, I'm not.

00;04;44;13 - 00;04;51;26
Unknown
I'm not. No, I need help. No. I mean, I, I mean, I've been okay. It's it has been a lot. It has been.

00;04;51;26 - 00;05;17;14
Unknown
I mean, we since San Diego was almost a year ago now. And my sales have literally, like, quintupled since then. And the amount of eyeballs that are on me and my work have been gone up exponentially. And the amount of like work I do to promote it is gone up as well. So I'm traveling constantly and I'm happy to do it.

00;05;17;14 - 00;05;34;24
Unknown
And this is my favorite thing is to meet fans and to hang out and do this stuff. But my least favorite part is the traveling itself. I mean, it was cool at first, but I, I racked over 150,000 miles on my Alaska account last year. It's that's that's a lot. That's a lot. That's that's a lot. And

00;05;34;27 - 00;05;35;26
Unknown
it can be tiring.

00;05;35;26 - 00;05;58;26
Unknown
And also on dungeon crawler crawl book eight was due on a certain date and I was traveling. So I was actually with Operation Bounce House where I taught myself this, but I, I taught myself how to write on the road. So I try to write every single day, even when I'm at a convention like this. And I didn't do it today because I woke up a little late and but and then I get antsy about it because I start thinking like, oh, I haven't written today.

00;05;58;28 - 00;06;18;01
Unknown
But I've, I've been doing my best, and I think I'm doing okay. Yeah, you're you're doing pretty well out there, and I'm glad to hear you're feeling okay in general because that, like, if especially events like this can be a lot. Yeah. Lots of craziness going on. The one that did most recently come out is Operation Bounce House.

00;06;18;01 - 00;06;39;16
Unknown
So for anybody who hasn't heard about this book already, what is it about? So Operation Bounce House is a standalone science fiction novel, and it's not related at all to the dungeon crawler crawl box. It is about a bunch of settlers on another planet. They have been there for a couple generations. They just finally open up the transfer gate back to Earth, which allows instantaneous travel and communication back to Earth.

00;06;39;16 - 00;06;59;25
Unknown
And the moment that happens, Earth says, you know what? We're going to take your land. So we I know we promised you that you're going to be left alone, but we want it. And what they do is they hire a mercenary company to commence an eviction action, which basically means kill everybody on the planet. And the mercenary company who's already getting paid by the Earth government wants to get money on both ends.

00;06;59;28 - 00;07;20;04
Unknown
So they turn it into a game. They allow the bored people on Earth to remotely design their own war machines and pilot them from home. And then they tell them, everyone on this planet is terrorists. They're subhuman. They're not even the same as you, because these genetics to alter them physically. And so let's let's get rid of these people, and

00;07;20;07 - 00;07;21;00
Unknown
to prepare for it.

00;07;21;00 - 00;07;42;11
Unknown
I watched, like, hours of videos and I played games like Counterstrike and Call of Duty. And if you've never been on the receiving end of a 12 year old telling you how what they did with your mom the night before, you know, it's it's that's the sort of like vibe that these gamers have against these people. They're just farmers fighting for their life.

00;07;42;13 - 00;07;44;08
Unknown
And that's Operation Bounce House.

00;07;44;11 - 00;07;48;13
Unknown
Why write a standalone mid dungeon crawler, Carl?

00;07;48;20 - 00;08;05;25
Unknown
there's two answers to that. The real answer is when I saw dungeon crawler Karl to Penguin Random House, they were very skeptical about it because they kept the e-book rights and they, they wanted just the physical book rights. And they said, well, can we do something else with you as well?

00;08;05;25 - 00;08;24;15
Unknown
And and I was like, oh darn, another book published by, you know, a silver Penguin Random House. And I was like, yes, absolutely. And I had this idea, this idea had been cooking for a very long time and already written the first chapter, and they bought it. But it's it's nice to break up, just a little bit.

00;08;24;15 - 00;08;45;20
Unknown
I wrote operation about how simultaneously with book seven, this inevitable ruin of dungeon crawler. Carl. So I couldn't write them at the same, like, writing session. Like I can sit down and like, write one chapter and move over. I'd have to break it up by at least half a day. But I was writing them simultaneously, and that ended up working out pretty well for me, I think.

00;08;45;20 - 00;08;53;04
Unknown
And that's something I've never done before, writing two things, and I'm going to be doing that again, probably just writing another standalone novel.

00;08;53;04 - 00;09;00;27
Unknown
dungeon crawler crawl book nine is my main priority, and that's what I'm working on now. How do you compartmentalize the two stories when you're going back and forth between them?

00;09;01;00 - 00;09;18;13
Unknown
I can't do it if I'm sitting down with the computer open and I'm like, okay, I'm going to write a chapter of this book. Now, I can't do that. I have to separate them in my mind. And every writing session starts out with me rereading everything I had written the previous session and then editing it a little bit, and then finally kind of easing myself into it.

00;09;18;16 - 00;09;20;07
Unknown
And that helps. That helps.

00;09;20;10 - 00;09;40;25
Unknown
This book tackles a lot of hot button issues. Talk a little bit about why you wanted to put those out there at this time in the world. Okay. So operation bounce House. It's about genocide, and it's about AI, and it's about how we treat those who we don't aren't face to face with.

00;09;40;25 - 00;10;06;07
Unknown
And other issues. It's slightly separate, but I think a lot of that comes hand in hand where people become afraid of people that are different than themselves, and then they they treat each other differently. And that and the other thing is in a way to call it and I, I've personally found in my personal life a lot of times that groups of people can be really awful.

00;10;06;07 - 00;10;32;10
Unknown
But individuals, when you meet them one on one, they, they, they can be amazing. And I think more people that are good than not. And that's kind of the premise I'm hoping to challenge with this book. And it's not about anything specific that's happening. I don't like to say, well, this is about, you know, the genocide. And I want to say, this is a book about genocide and then let people read it and decide for themselves.

00;10;32;13 - 00;11;00;22
Unknown
It's especially important in the world that we're in today, but with the AI conversation, because I does play heavily into this book and AI and creativity. Yes. Talk a little bit about that juxtaposition that I'm walking right now. So AI is a separate conversation and I, I, I've said this multiple times and I strongly feel that we are on an event horizon right now where AI is going to it already has started upending.

00;11;00;24 - 00;11;12;24
Unknown
Anybody who's a creative already knows how much AI is like, touched our lives, but it is going to change everything we've already seen. Like our parents and ourselves fall for videos that end up being fake.

00;11;12;29 - 00;11;15;27
Unknown
It's going to get worse and worse and worse.

00;11;16;00 - 00;11;24;07
Unknown
I recently had a friend whose cat went missing, and she posted pictures of her cat online, and then she got, a photograph of her cat at the vet.

00;11;24;08 - 00;11;31;06
Unknown
The video, I believe it. The cat at the vet said, And something first message was, I'm really sorry, but I hit your cat with my car

00;11;31;08 - 00;11;42;14
Unknown
we're at this vet, which is a real vet. Adds up. I know, I know where this is going, where the surgery is going to cost $800. Kidney and and they need to do it right away.

00;11;42;14 - 00;12;05;18
Unknown
And she almost fell for it. It was all AI. It's going to get worse and worse and worse. And in the world of Operation Bounce House, that happened. Stuff like that. People are getting calls from their children, are saying they're in trouble. And it was all AI, and it became such an issue that they had to make it illegal for people to use AI to mimic humans.

00;12;05;21 - 00;12;29;26
Unknown
And how are we going to do that? That's impossible. The the software is already out there. There's no way to change that. So in the book, what they do is basically tear down the entire internet and rebuild it from scratch, which it's not going to happen. I can be a fantastic tool. It's great at sorting things. It can be very helpful tool to engineers and doctors.

00;12;29;29 - 00;12;53;04
Unknown
But what we see is happening is the people that are paying for the AI to exist realize that they're helping the doctors so much. Why do we need the doctors? And that's not what we want. And in terms of creativity, AI is a doing the exact opposite of what we want it to do. We want to be able to create.

00;12;53;05 - 00;13;12;22
Unknown
We want to be able to write. We want to be able to draw pictures. Because what art is, is a vision through the eyes of another person. When I see a drawing and a drawing that's done by human, what I'm really doing is looking through that person's eyes and seeing that thing, how they see it. And that's the art.

00;13;12;25 - 00;13;35;05
Unknown
And I cannot create art because I isn't human. It might look like art might be cool the first time you see it, but that, I mean, it's not art because it's not human made. And this argument is not a good argument for the corporations that just want a picture of like a woman eating a salad and laughing on their website.

00;13;35;07 - 00;14;02;03
Unknown
But it's my argument. It's I will never use AI in anything I do because I want it all be created by myself. And I, you know, all the ethical arguments aside, all like energy arguments aside, I just don't think its existence is helpful to the human condition. It might be making things easier, for some people, but it's it's the wrong path, I think.

00;14;02;03 - 00;14;02;21
Unknown
So

00;14;02;24 - 00;14;13;14
Unknown
art needs soul to be art. Yes. And on the flip side of that, like your books are, have some dark elements, but they're also so funny. So how do you find humor in the darkness?

00;14;13;17 - 00;14;27;27
Unknown
I think you have to season the darkness with some sort of humanity and humor. And you see over and over in real life, and you talk to any combat veteran, you'll they almost always have a really dark sense of humor.

00;14;28;00 - 00;14;43;03
Unknown
And I think that's so when I pepper these stories that have a lot of awful things happen with humor, I think that's a very natural. It feels realistic to a lot of people. I think because it is realistic. That's how people deal with this stuff.

00;14;43;10 - 00;14;54;10
Unknown
Dungeon Crawler Castle in particular is awful. It starts off with 99% of the humans all dying, and Karl himself takes everything that's happening dead seriously.

00;14;54;10 - 00;15;10;08
Unknown
And there's a bunch of funny stuff happens. But you know, it's because they're also on a television show, and the AI itself is trying to trying to be funny. And donut is a child learning to be an adult, and those reactions are funny. But she's a cat.

00;15;10;11 - 00;15;21;11
Unknown
So with book eight coming out, I don't like to do spoilers, just in case this might be someone's first introduction to you, but what is like a one word spoiler for book eight that we won't get until we read it?

00;15;21;13 - 00;15;39;09
Unknown
It's actually on my shirt. Okay, it says Boop! If you have read book eight, you'll know exactly what it means. If you haven't, you will not know what means until the very last sentence of the book. Okay. Yes, that sounds okay. I'll be looking for that. Yes. Don't worry, you won't. You can't miss it. Okay? Can't miss it.

00;15;39;09 - 00;16;13;05
Unknown
Good. Okay. But there's so much going on in dungeon crawler Karl world. Talk a little bit about your Kickstarter for the trading card game. Yeah. So, we have a it's backer kit and I Kickstarter, but, yeah, we it's the Renegade Games who's made two different games. They made a ttrpg. It's going right now. Like a full on tabletop roleplaying game where you can roleplay any of the characters in a dungeon, or you can create your own characters, and it's just like a dungeons and Dragons style game, but it's its own system.

00;16;13;08 - 00;16;47;01
Unknown
And they also have another game that already exists called unstoppable, which is a single or double player or two player cooperative card game. And they made a dungeon crawler crawl expansion, which has different rules than the original unstoppable game. And they decided to put them together in a single backer kit campaign. And I haven't actually checked it today, but when I went to bed last night, it was at, $6.5 million and 26,000 backers, which is, you know, bonkers, cuckoo insane.

00;16;47;04 - 00;17;00;07
Unknown
And it's only been off going for a couple days now, and I am just overwhelmed with all the support. The community has rallied around the idea of just playing in this world of that I created. So it's it's it's pretty cool.

00;17;00;11 - 00;17;08;15
Unknown
And we've gotten some news on the show that Peacock is picking it up. Yes. Let's talk a little bit about the process so far and what that's been like for you.

00;17;08;19 - 00;17;21;17
Unknown
what's out there is NBC universal bought the rights to a dungeon crawler, Castle Television series. Fuzzy Door, which is Seth MacFarlane's production company, picked it up to produce it.

00;17;21;20 - 00;17;44;27
Unknown
They they hired a guy named Chris Yost who's a pretty popular, writer to write the series. He wrote the last couple for movies and he's written for The Mandalorian and a bunch of other cool stuff. And then the news that recently came out that the streaming service Peacock picked it up, for development. And that's all the news that's out there.

00;17;44;29 - 00;17;54;10
Unknown
We don't have anything imminent. It's hasn't officially been greenlit just yet, but, hopefully, you know, we'll get news on whether it's going forward or not. Pretty soon.

00;17;54;13 - 00;18;04;22
Unknown
There's a lot of fan casting going on right now. So I know you can't really talk on that because I can't. Yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. That's some legal trouble that we don't want you getting into.

00;18;04;25 - 00;18;11;23
Unknown
So, what was with all of this going on and the graphic novel coming out? What was your. I made it moment?

00;18;11;25 - 00;18;23;24
Unknown
I don't know. You know, it's funny, as an author, you you have, like, these, like, ideals. And then once it happens, it's fantastic and it's amazing, but I'm so driven as an author that I'm always moving the goalposts.

00;18;23;24 - 00;18;49;07
Unknown
So I think the first time I saw one of my books in an airport bookstore as an author, that was really cool. The first time I saw cosplay of one of my characters, which was several years ago now, it was the most surreal, amazing moment as an author. We all have these things. Finally, for the first time, just a couple days ago, I saw someone reading my book in the wild that was outside of a convention, and that was really cool.

00;18;49;07 - 00;18;53;08
Unknown
And I didn't want to say anything. My wife or my wife. She zoomed up and is like,

00;18;53;14 - 00;18;54;28
Unknown
he's right here. Yeah, exactly.

00;18;55;01 - 00;19;02;00
Unknown
So that was that was pretty cool because they're there. They ended up being pretty excited. But and then I saw 3 in 3 days, which is also really weird.

00;19;02;06 - 00;19;04;27
Unknown
I was a question on jeopardy the other day.

00;19;04;27 - 00;19;19;28
Unknown
And that was that was impressive that my mom so that, you know, that's the that's that was pretty cool. When you can impress your mom with your work, then you know that, okay, this is legit now. Yes. I've got mom's stamp of approval. Exactly.

00;19;20;01 - 00;19;23;00
Unknown
Is there anything else you want to talk about that I may have missed or that you can talk about?

00;19;23;00 - 00;19;24;13
Unknown
I know you're, like, the busiest man.

00;19;24;16 - 00;19;40;22
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, we have so much going on, and I'm doing my best to keep track of all of it, but even I lose track of it. All that. So I finally hired an assistant. I'm probably gonna have to hire another person to help along with it. Matt and I, Mint.com is my website, and we're combining all the stuff there.

00;19;40;23 - 00;20;01;26
Unknown
We have a, like, a giant team working on the website, and they're doing a fantastic job. You can look at it right now, and I think it looks great, but it's going to look even cooler pretty soon. There's a fan made wiki that, I don't even look at, and it's the website is like very advertising heavy. So we're going to be 14 like the articles to run, domain I run.

00;20;01;26 - 00;20;18;16
Unknown
So people have to deal with ads while they want to look stuff up. And the whole goal is to be able to say, I've read to book three, you click that. And so all the articles will be spoiler free off that. That's the goal. I mean, it's that's a big task and it's a challenge. So hopefully we can get it done like that.

00;20;18;17 - 00;20;41;06
Unknown
That's definitely a challenge, especially with how much these books have blown up on TikTok of like, you can't scroll book talk without seeing spoilers everywhere. Yeah, I seen spoilers on Booktok I of my own stuff. And so I was on Booktok the other day and someone had artwork for the the ttrpg that I had never seen before, and they were like, renegade is like, ask them to like reveal it, that sort of stuff.

00;20;41;06 - 00;20;53;23
Unknown
I'm like. And I was scrolling and, someone was said that they're gonna post the words on the cover of book eight. So I posted it myself ahead of time, just so nobody the person wouldn't get it.

00;20;53;25 - 00;21;02;17
Unknown
Yeah. One of the things that's been trending late rate lately has been the black like cover that people are finding out about, that I do want to know about that.

00;21;02;17 - 00;21;12;15
Unknown
Like the with not having, The Dungeon Anarchist Cookbook be black light and because it's endgame and all that, people keep showing the spine. But if you actually put the front covers,

00;21;12;17 - 00;21;20;01
Unknown
It goes completely black, except for the, the the the light on the train. That's how it's supposed to be in. I think it looks pretty cool.

00;21;20;01 - 00;21;20;12
Unknown
It's

00;21;20;16 - 00;21;34;04
Unknown
that that is intentional by the designers over at Penguin Random House who came up with, like, how what was that conversation like about? I don't think we actually had a conversation, but they said, we're going to use like, fluorescent Day-Glo ink for it. But,

00;21;34;08 - 00;21;40;03
Unknown
the actual designers that decide on, what's going to like what coating things.

00;21;40;03 - 00;21;52;00
Unknown
Have they came up with the idea of doing it that way, I believe, and then it just I didn't even realize it until I did a photoshoot one day, and then it was under a black light and I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool.

00;21;52;02 - 00;21;58;08
Unknown
That's awesome. Well, last question we always ask because this is literary hype. What books are you hyped about right now?

00;21;58;10 - 00;22;14;10
Unknown
There's so many books that I'm that I. That I want to read. I'm on an Adrian Tchaikovsky, trip right now. I'm reading shroud right now, which is a standalone novel, and it's, like, really good. And, so I'm pretty excited about

00;22;14;12 - 00;22;18;25
Unknown
reading the rest of his catalog because I only read like the Children of Time series.

00;22;18;27 - 00;22;26;27
Unknown
And so most of his books have, you know, they're already out of you because he writes a million books. So I'm going to just tear through his entire catalog. But,

00;22;26;29 - 00;22;31;13
Unknown
man, I got a lot of time on flights to catch up on your reading. I do. I

00;22;31;13 - 00;22;37;14
Unknown
don't have as much time to actually sit down and read, because what happens is I've always read at night, like physically read.

00;22;37;16 - 00;22;49;24
Unknown
And I pass out now, so can I get a chance? But I do travel a lot and I'm in my car a lot, and I listen to music and when I writes and every other moment I have free, I have earbuds in my ear listening to an audiobook,

00;22;49;28 - 00;22;55;15
Unknown
I've got some really good audiobook narrators in your life to to provide you with some good content there.

00;22;55;15 - 00;23;17;03
Unknown
Yes, yes, Jeff and Travis are fantastic. Travis is amazing. Jeff is amazing. I can listen to Travis's audiobooks. I can't listen to Jeff's. I mean, not because they're bad. It's just I'm so used to hearing his voice that it it's it's kind of odd, hearing like him. Like, there's a series called Chrysalis, which is amazing, which is about it.

00;23;17;07 - 00;23;28;12
Unknown
And and it's a it's great. Just check it out. But I listen to it and it's like, oh, man, it's so weird hearing, like, the dungeon crawler crawl. Narrator. Do another series

00;23;28;19 - 00;23;36;19
Unknown
it with this one. Like, I normally listen at double speed, but I actually had to slow that one down. And just because Travis does such a great job with it does.

00;23;36;19 - 00;23;42;18
Unknown
He talks a little fast and just a smidge. You know, Travis is originally from Texas too, so

00;23;42;20 - 00;23;49;18
Unknown
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for hanging out with literary hype. It back on. Oh, thanks for having me. This has been fun.

00;23;49;21 - 00;24;04;17
Unknown
Thanks again to Matt for hanging out with me at Book Con to talk all about Operation Bounce House, Parade of Horribles, and the dungeon crawler Cali Universe. If you'd like to get Ahold of Matt Books, the links to do so are down in the show notes for you, as well as where to find him on social media.

00;24;04;24 - 00;24;11;22
Unknown
If you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to subscribe to Literary Hype Podcast. Give us some stars, leave a comment and share it with your friends.

00;24;11;24 - 00;24;14;10
Unknown
Thanks so much for listening to the Literary Hype Podcast.