124. BRIGID KEMMERER: Finding balance in characters, relationships, genres, and real life

This week on LiteraryHype Podcast, #1 New York Times Bestselling Author Brigid Kemmerer joins me for a delightful conversation about all things romantasy. Brigid recently released the conclusion to a YA trilogy, as well as kicked off her adult romantasy series with Warrior Princess Assassin. We're mainly focused on the latter of those two books, and talking all about writing why choose romance for adults after years of writing for teenagers. Plus, we're talking about her personal hobbies and how they impact her writing fierce female characters.

Join us for a fun chat!

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Warrior Princess Assassin
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Sparking Fire Out of Fate
Forging Silver Into Stars

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Captive Traitor King
Sparking Fire Out of Fate
Forging Silver Into Stars

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Warrior Princess Assassin
Captive Traitor King
Sparking Fire Out of Fate
Forging Silver Into Stars

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Warrior Princess Assassin
Captive Traitor King
Sparking Fire Out of Fate
Forging Silver Into Stars

Transcript

00;00;02;29 - 00;00;09;14
Unknown
Hi and welcome to Literary Hype. I am Stephanie, your literary hype woman back with another author conversation for Literary Hype podcast.

00;00;09;16 - 00;00;31;16
Unknown
We are diving full on into the wide shoes world with author Brigid Kemmerer and her adult debut Warrior Princess assassin. This book caught me by surprise, and I will let that unfold in this conversation, but it was such a good conversation about so many different things, including Brigid, why a series and magic and world building and

00;00;31;16 - 00;00;34;13
Unknown
and maybe some hints about her upcoming sequel.

00;00;34;16 - 00;00;42;13
Unknown
So, without any further ado, here's my conversation with Brigid Kemmerer.

00;00;42;16 - 00;00;52;26
Unknown
Well, welcome to literary hype. It's so exciting to have you on. To talk. About what? You've got a lot of books we could talk about, but primarily we're going to talk about warrior princess assassin. Yay! Thank you. I'm really excited to be here.

00;00;52;28 - 00;00;57;06
Unknown
But before we dive into the book, I want to ask about you personally because I saw something online,

00;00;57;13 - 00;01;01;21
Unknown
that I was like, oh, my people, you are a big weightlifter.

00;01;01;22 - 00;01;16;11
Unknown
Yes. Are you a weightlifter? I used to be. I haven't done it so much because I injured myself a lot in college. But it's okay. Yeah. But my husband, my husband is a competitive weightlifter as well. So? So. Yeah. So talk a little bit about how you got into weightlifting.

00;01;16;11 - 00;01;18;18
Unknown
I wanted, well, almost like ten years ago now.

00;01;18;20 - 00;01;41;27
Unknown
I had just quit the day job to become a full time author. And, you know, my, I was kind of in this place where I was flailing a little because I didn't really know what to do with myself. You know, they say once your hobby becomes your day job, you need to find a new hobby. And I had a friend who had been dealing with some postpartum depression, and her husband had encouraged her to start CrossFit.

00;01;42;00 - 00;01;59;07
Unknown
And I knew nothing about CrossFit. Like over the course of six weeks. She started texting me like Bridget, you need to try this. This changed my life. And I said something to my husband about it. And he also knew nothing about CrossFit. Weightlifting like we had never touched a barbell beyond. You know, I know a body pump class.

00;01;59;08 - 00;02;18;19
Unknown
I get it, Gold's Gym and, but I tried it and I fell in love with it. And I really fell in love with the weightlifting aspect of it, especially the whole angle where it stops being so much about, like, what you look like or how much you weigh. And the focus is really on how much you can pick up, how strong you are.

00;02;18;19 - 00;02;31;29
Unknown
And it was so empowering and exactly what I needed. And it's so welcoming and friendly. And also, as you know, a woman who's always been a little on the fluffier side, it was really nice to work out in a way that did not involve running

00;02;32;02 - 00;02;37;05
Unknown
well. And being fluffy helps with weight lifting. Like you need some some fluff on you in order to get those big numbers.

00;02;37;05 - 00;02;45;06
Unknown
Yes. So I appreciate that part of it too. So how has being a weightlifter helped you when you're writing? Oh, wow.

00;02;45;09 - 00;02;58;18
Unknown
I will say sometimes it creeps in in weird ways, you know, in one of the curse breaker novels, there is a scene where Leah Mira is, she's helping, like, a soldier basically carry a stag, you know?

00;02;58;18 - 00;03;19;26
Unknown
And I talk a lot about, like, what it feels like to be able to, like, lift something strong because she had never really been valued. And the guy she's walking with is like. No, like you're strong. Like it's amazing. And things like that. So does it. Sneaks in in different places, especially when you're writing is female characters that are strong while still being soft, which I appreciate.

00;03;19;27 - 00;03;34;08
Unknown
Like you can be both. So I feel like the weightlifting seeps in a little bit in that it's like, yeah, she can be strong and like fight you, but she's still going to be like, but my pretty dress. Exactly. No, I tell people all the time I'm like, I'm, I, you know, have calluses on my hands from the barbell.

00;03;34;08 - 00;03;58;29
Unknown
But she's still pretty nails. Like, yes. I was like when I was a because I was a Division one rower. And so the calluses were like unhinged level. I'm sorry. Yes. But unhinged books, you know, this this one's a little unhinged. So let's talk a little bit about warrior princess assassin. Sure. When I first saw the title, I try not to read blurbs and, like the jacket copy because I figure too much out from them and sometimes go in blind.

00;03;59;04 - 00;04;21;25
Unknown
And sometimes that backfires because I thought Warrior Princess assassin was all one person. That's very common. So you are not alone. And then I was like, oh, that's what this book is. Yes, it is very definitely a warrior, a princess and an assassin. Very much so. So for anybody who hasn't seen this book online or in their bookstores yet, what is this book about?

00;04;22;02 - 00;04;42;12
Unknown
So Warrior Princess assassin is about a princess named jewelry who has been betrothed to marry this warrior king that she wants absolutely nothing to do with. But she knows she kind of has to go forward into this marriage to protect her people. It's just it's it's a marriage alliance she doesn't want, but she knows she needs to do it.

00;04;42;15 - 00;05;00;07
Unknown
Part of the reason she doesn't want to go through with it is she has this best friend named Asher, who is an assassin, and they've been best friends since they were children. And he was raised, as a nobleman in the palace. But then he was later exiled, and now he and Jory are secretly best friends. Because, of course, Princess can't be best friends with an assassin.

00;05;00;10 - 00;05;24;09
Unknown
And the night before she is due to get married, Asher sneaks into her room and says, I've received new orders. I've been ordered to kill you and the man you're about to marry. And because they're best friends, he says, what should we do about it? And the three of them end up on this adventure sometimes hating each other or sometimes loving each other, sometimes not sure if they can trust each other.

00;05;24;10 - 00;05;25;12
Unknown
And it's so much fun to ride

00;05;25;19 - 00;05;33;11
Unknown
beyond space. Why was this the book that made you want to deviate from Wyat and write something a little spicier?

00;05;33;11 - 00;05;43;29
Unknown
So I've been writing in the Ya space for for a long time, since 2012 was my debut, and I absolutely love writing for teenagers. I. I really took it to heart, took it very seriously.

00;05;44;01 - 00;06;04;09
Unknown
But, you know, in writing, in that space for more than a decade, a lot of my readers have grown up. You know, a lot of my readers have grown up, has moved on, and have kept reading my books, which is amazing. And I love that you. But I was ready for more. They were ready for more. And, you know, I also liked the idea of being able to tell stories in just in a bigger way.

00;06;04;12 - 00;06;21;14
Unknown
You know, you you have to be very careful when you're writing for teens that you're not including too much violence, that you're not, you know, obviously not putting too much sex on the page or if it's there that it's there for a reason. But with adult, you can kind of go just a little deeper into some of the complexities, violence and sexuality.

00;06;21;20 - 00;06;39;25
Unknown
Did it change your process between writing for Y and versus writing for adults and how you approached the story? No. Just in swatty. Just in the space. Because I had for so long, you know, I was very careful about how I would word things because, you know, I have readers as young as ten and 11 years old.

00;06;39;28 - 00;07;01;09
Unknown
And if I had any kind of intimacy on the page, I was always just very I wanted to write it in such a way that if you if you knew, you knew. But if you didn't know, they're just hugging or they're just kissing, right. And with a don't you don't you don't have those blocks on. Right. But for the longest time I was like, I don't I can't see that you're not allowed to use that word.

00;07;01;13 - 00;07;06;20
Unknown
But no, it worked out. What was the hardest part of making that transition from Y to adult for you?

00;07;06;23 - 00;07;11;17
Unknown
You know, I, I don't know that any of it was hard. It was just more kind of loosening up.

00;07;11;19 - 00;07;17;07
Unknown
adult romance you have, you do have to loosen up and be more open with what you're putting on the page.

00;07;17;07 - 00;07;25;14
Unknown
Yeah. And accepting that people are going to now ask ridiculous questions about it as they love to ask. Of all romance writers, yes they do.

00;07;25;16 - 00;07;31;05
Unknown
Don't do it. Just don't do it. Yes, sometimes it's very uncomfortable.

00;07;31;07 - 00;07;41;01
Unknown
But this also y choose is having a huge moment in the literary space. So what about these three made you want to explore it as a white choose romance instead of a love triangle?

00;07;41;05 - 00;08;06;12
Unknown
when I saw these three characters in my mind, I knew that I wanted all three of them to end up in some kind of relationship together. It felt very right. I really thought a lot about what each character needed and what each character wanted from a relationship, and you know, jewelry and Ashur, the assassin and the princess, they've known each other for a long time, and they do love each other, but there's something that's not quite there that's kind of missing.

00;08;06;14 - 00;08;21;28
Unknown
And they both very, very slowly begin to find that in Kai, the warrior king, and developing those relationships kind of separately and together, both between Asher and Chi and between Jory and Kai, was probably one of my favorite things to write in the book.

00;08;22;04 - 00;08;31;24
Unknown
Speaking of relationships, Jory and Kai both have siblings that the relationships are kind of touched on, and but they're very, very different.

00;08;31;27 - 00;08;39;00
Unknown
So what was it like for you exploring not only the romantic relationships, but these sibling relationships that were going to tie them together?

00;08;39;00 - 00;08;51;05
Unknown
I love playing with family dynamics in my books. I love it, because family is messy. Family is messy. Like, I don't care who you are. I don't care if you have the most loving, accepting, kind, warm family.

00;08;51;07 - 00;09;12;19
Unknown
Family is still messy. And Jory has a really, you know, fractious relationship with her brother. He he really kind of looks down on her. He's disappointed in her. And she has a similar relationship with her father. So the men in her life have always basically treated her like lesser than, that she's not worthy. She's been very, very sheltered and protected.

00;09;12;21 - 00;09;31;29
Unknown
And it's been really fun writing both in warrior Princess, assassin and then also in the sequel that's coming out later this year, how she really starts to realize that the way her brother and her father treated her was not okay. And then we have Kai, who's on the flip side of that, where he has a sister that he is actively protecting and he loves his sister.

00;09;31;29 - 00;09;49;15
Unknown
His sister has a lot of complications. I don't want to say too much because I don't want to be spoilery, but his sister has a lot of complications that Kai really struggles with how to manage. And, you know, juxtaposing those two different kinds of relationships against each other was really satisfying as a writer. So I hope it is as a reader, too,

00;09;49;19 - 00;09;58;20
Unknown
with the juxtaposition, like we talked about strong but soft, we see that play out in the relationships with all three of them, where they're strong but also soft with each other.

00;09;58;22 - 00;10;18;17
Unknown
Let's talk a little bit about balancing the harsh fierceness that they need to be in this world as a to fight off what they're battling, but also learning to be soft with each other. Oh meant that. So there's definitely an element of hurt, comfort. And among all of their relationships, so many dead moms. So many dead moms.

00;10;18;17 - 00;10;20;26
Unknown
Yes. Sorry, moms.

00;10;20;26 - 00;10;36;28
Unknown
they all struggle with vulnerability and revealing it to each other. And that also fell under that whole want and need dynamic among the three of them. You know, Asher always wanted to be strong for jewelry. She doesn't know what he has endured since he's been exiled from the palace. And part of that was, you know, his own fault.

00;10;36;28 - 00;10;53;18
Unknown
He didn't want to share any of that with her. You know, so she only sees him as, you know, the the nobleman that she had grown up with. And he is afraid to reveal anything else to her. But then Kai is a little more worldly. He's, you know, this warrior king. He's been to war. He's a little bit older.

00;10;53;20 - 00;11;17;07
Unknown
He sees through Asher's kind of his fronting and forces, you know, him to kind of confront things about himself. But then on the flip side, Kai doesn't want to be vulnerable because he spent his whole life at war. He spent his whole life trying to defend his country. And, you know, Jory and Asher really make him see that it is okay to be, you know, a little softer.

00;11;17;13 - 00;11;36;20
Unknown
There is a lot of action because of the situations that they're in. So what is your favorite technique for writing action and fight scenes? Oh, man, I struggle sometimes. I will often block it out with a lot of really rapid just action descriptions, and then I have to go back in and flush it out a little bit more.

00;11;36;23 - 00;11;53;09
Unknown
From a technical standpoint, I can see it really clearly in my head, and I just, I almost have to choreograph it first in my head, then on paper where I'm like, then they do this, then they do this, and then I have to go back in after that and kind of clean it up, make it seem more literary, make all the fancy words.

00;11;53;09 - 00;12;08;09
Unknown
Yes. Not just bang bang, boom. Yes. What do you mean? They fought? And then this is how it ended. That's all you need to know. Exactly. Like, do you need to know who was standing where? Is it necessary? I don't know, maybe. Perhaps. I mean, sometimes

00;12;08;12 - 00;12;12;04
Unknown
Despite all this action, this does feel like a character first book.

00;12;12;07 - 00;12;27;23
Unknown
So how do you balance that of, like, making sure that you're still developing these characters and showing them while all this craziness is going on in their world? So I am very much a character driven writer. You know, all of my stories are always going to focus on character first. I was plot a little bit second

00;12;27;26 - 00;12;34;00
Unknown
For me, it is always going to be about the characters. I would I would write the characters sitting in a room like this in chairs, just talking to each other, if I could.

00;12;34;02 - 00;12;50;02
Unknown
And I tend to build the plot around them and what's happening around them. And with this being a romance or a romantic fantasy romance, the the romance is also at the forefront. You know, there's definitely a lot of action. There's a lot of things going on. But for me, it's always about the characters.

00;12;50;05 - 00;12;56;24
Unknown
So the paperback for this is about to come out. Are there any bonus scenes or anything special we can look forward to in the paperback edition?

00;12;56;27 - 00;13;01;00
Unknown
No bonus scenes that I'm not that I'm aware of.

00;13;01;03 - 00;13;02;21
Unknown
They just made up a bonus scene for you.

00;13;02;23 - 00;13;18;26
Unknown
Well, I know, so I know the the Barnes and Noble, edition, the hardcover, which has kind of like a red sprayed edge. That one does have a bonus scene at the end. And I've seen in the past, sometimes my paperbacks have that bonus scene included in them, but I don't know if it's going to be included in this one.

00;13;18;27 - 00;13;20;14
Unknown
We haven't finalized the specs yet.

00;13;20;22 - 00;13;37;02
Unknown
So what can you tell us about book two? I tried so hard to get an arc of this, and it was just not ready. It's not. I was like, not ready, but I want to read it. Give me please. So book two is called Captive Trader King. It will be coming out November 3rd of 2026.

00;13;37;06 - 00;13;57;09
Unknown
I'm really, really excited about it. We go a lot deeper into not only the romance between all three of them, but into really what they're facing. And they learn a lot of harsh truths about each other, about themselves. There's definitely a lot more action on the page, so I'm really excited for readers to find it and see it.

00;13;57;12 - 00;14;12;02
Unknown
This is not your most recent book, but it's hard to talk about a final book in a trilogy without spoilers. So for anybody who doesn't know about your other Forging Silver series, little bit about that so they know what to look forward to in that book that just came out.

00;14;12;04 - 00;14;34;05
Unknown
So the Forging Silver Into Stars trilogy, that is a spinoff series from my Curse Breaker trilogy. It is not at all required reading to read that first trilogy. Forging silver into stars. So whereas Curse Breaker trilogy was more about like the royals forging silver into stars, it's more about the people. And we have these three characters. We have Jax, who is a blacksmith and Callen, who is a baker.

00;14;34;08 - 00;14;55;20
Unknown
And they are living right on the border between two countries that were at war but have been at peace, just a very tenuous peace for a few years. And Jackson Callen are not doing great. You know, again, you mentioned the dead mothers. Sorry, moms. Like, why do you, like killing moms? It's good. It's good plotting. No.

00;14;55;22 - 00;14;57;10
Unknown
Medium complexity. Yeah.

00;14;57;12 - 00;15;19;26
Unknown
No. Jackson. Callen. You know, they're not having an easy time. They. They're both pretty poor. They're really struggling to, you know, stay afloat. You know, get taxes paid. You know, pay for food, things like that. And one day, a nobleman rides into town and asks Jax, the blacksmith, to hold a note. That is, he suspects is a treasonous note against the king because he needs money.

00;15;19;26 - 00;15;45;21
Unknown
He agrees to do it. And he's been told that somebody else will come into town to pick it up. Tycho is the King's courier, works directly for the king, and when he rides into town, Jax immediately assumes that this note is for him and quickly learns that it is not so poor. Jax and Callen and Tycho end up twisted up in this treasonous plot against the King without even realizing it.

00;15;45;24 - 00;16;00;25
Unknown
It is not a why choose similar to Warrior Princess assassin. Jackson Tyco end up finding some feelings for each other, and Kellan ends up finding some feelings for the bad nobleman. So there's a lot of a lot of drama among all four of them.

00;16;00;28 - 00;16;07;04
Unknown
Dah dah dah dah. Because what's a book without drama? Exactly. And now we get what's a book without magic to like?

00;16;07;04 - 00;16;21;19
Unknown
What? What? Why not? We need magic. And that makes. Yeah, we could dissociate. Yes. And that trilogy is completely done. Like you said, sparking Fire Out of Fate just came out a few weeks ago, and I'm really excited about it. I've loved seeing all the messages from readers and postings online. It's been incredible.

00;16;21;25 - 00;16;29;24
Unknown
when you're working on multiple series at a time and like different worlds and Magic, how do you process it all and keep it all straight?

00;16;29;26 - 00;16;48;00
Unknown
You know, I don't know. And I realize that makes me sound like a psychopath. I they just feel like different worlds in my head. And like, once I go to one, I'm there. Once I go to another one, I'm there. And I tell my kids, like, if I'm writing and they interrupt me and like, you guys have basically yanked me back through the portal and I have to find my way back into that world.

00;16;48;03 - 00;16;49;13
Unknown
Because that's kind of what it feels like.

00;16;49;21 - 00;16;58;26
Unknown
So our last question, because this is literary hype. What books are you hyped about? Oh my goodness. I know Emily Howard has, queen of Queen of the night sky.

00;16;58;27 - 00;17;13;18
Unknown
Thank you. I had a moment. Thank you. Queen of the night sky by Emily Howard. I'm very, very excited for that one to come out. She usually lets me read, early editions and I haven't read this one yet, so I just I can't wait. I am also really excited. I'm trying to think of what the other one.

00;17;13;21 - 00;17;32;04
Unknown
Adalyn Grace has a book coming out. I believe it's the Wretched Divine. They just did the cover reveal for that. It's stunning. Yes. And then I know, Victoria Abad has tempests coming, and I think that's going to be amazing. I think that's her adult debut. Yeah, there's a lot of white authors going into the adult space right now.

00;17;32;04 - 00;17;52;16
Unknown
There are? Yes. So it's really fun because it's like, oh, the books have now grown up with me. Like, oh, yay. Yes. Like, I started because I had an arc of Red Queen. And so now for her to be writing an adult, what, ten, 15 years later is really fun. And to see all these white authors making it as adult authors is just warms my little heart.

00;17;52;19 - 00;18;00;13
Unknown
Yeah. Well, thanks so much for hanging out with literary hype at love, y'all. Book this. Thank you. It's been great to be here.

00;18;00;16 - 00;18;12;24
Unknown
Thanks again to Brigid for hanging out with me at Love Your Book Festival in Atlanta. And so we could talk all about Warrior Princess Assassin, because I needed someone to talk to you about this book, and I really wish she would have given me more on the next one.

00;18;12;24 - 00;18;15;11
Unknown
I need it, I need it now. I need it now.

00;18;15;17 - 00;18;22;28
Unknown
anyways, if you'd like to check out Warrior Princess assassin or her Y.A. books for yourself, the links to do so are down in the show notes for you.

00;18;23;00 - 00;18;28;26
Unknown
If you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to subscribe to the Literary Hype Podcast. Give us some stars and leave a comment!

00;18;28;26 - 00;18;31;09
Unknown
Thanks for listening to the Literary Hype podcast.