Taj talks creativity with Nick Wilton, renowned painter and educator. Topics include how the act of creating nourishes the soul. and how outrageous ideas can really enhance your creativity.
Nick's website: art2life.com
Nick's upcoming free course (March 2024): artlifefree.com
Taj's website: TajBaker.com
Taj talks creativity with Nick Wilton, renowned painter and educator. Topics include how the act of creating nourishes the soul. and how outrageous ideas can really enhance your creativity.
Nick's website: art2life.com
Nick's upcoming free course (March 2024): artlifefree.com
Taj's website: TajBaker.com
Taj: Welcome to Playful Presence, conversations about creativity, mindfulness, and play. My name is Taj Baker, and I'm an artist, meditator, and coach. The idea behind this podcast is that these conversations with working creatives give you exercises, tools, ideas to help you with your challenges in your creativity.
If you'd like to get my newsletter and receive even more resources, you can go to tajbaker. com.
This is part two of a two part conversation with Nick Wilton, painter and teacher of painting. We talk about how the act of creating nourishes the soul, and how outrageous ideas can help the creative process.
Taj: So, when you have someone who comes to one of your workshops who's never painted or drawn or anything, someone who just wants to be creative, where do you have them start?
Nick: There's two things. One, we have to make sure that who's ever come, get them so they're not afraid anymore. And it's different for everybody because if you're afraid, then it's not that fun. So getting them to feel free and more like themselves is the first order of the day. And, and people need to understand that there are principles of art.
There's. There's a kind of a pile of information you do need in order to pull this off. And I teach those and I teach them in a way that it's understandable and you only need a certain amount in the beginning, but as you go, you need more. So giving people the information, it's a little like riding a bike.
It's about learning how to balance and making sure that you use the pedals properly. And so there's some of that. So, you have to balance the intuition part and just the play part and get comfortable in that. But then they need to have some information so they know how to change things and adjust things so that the work feels more like them, so they like it.
Learning how to choose what they like, right? They need to learn how to curate things. What do you like? Do you like this red or this blue and and learning how to do that because all those yes No decisions are what make your art yours So there's so much freedom in it, but there's also structure.
Taj: Yeah. And that balance is really key.
So what about mistakes? What kind of role would you say mistakes play in all this?
Nick: You know, we talk about mistakes, but we don't really frame them as mistakes. It's so wonderful because in art making, they're the most helpful things of all. And. You know, who's sitting listening and maybe they're just starting out and they, they realize that, you know, a mistake is just really a helpful correction, right?
A mistake shows you what you don't want to do or you don't like and you get to change it. That is art making. You try something and then you try something again and then you change that and you try that and you kind of serve bringing in the goalposts of what you want to end up with. And you do it by trying things.
And so someone who's starting out or even far along, once they really, really understand that there aren't any mistakes in art, that they actually get to be as free as they want to be. There's no downside to this. It's not like, you know, driving a car and boy, your wheel goes up on the curb and you get stuck in the planter box.
Like you can make mistakes driving, but in art you really can't. And, and it's like, this is truly when you get to be free. And so when people start to understand that and it takes time, they start to become more, more and more free. It's like going to a. A dinner party. And there's two kinds of dinner parties.
The ones that you don't know anybody, and those are a little harder, but one's the way, you know, everyone, you feel comfortable with everyone. You're going to be more self expressed. You're just going to feel just you're with your friends. That's how we want to be when we're making art and mistakes. If you think of them as mistakes, they can tighten you up and that's not actually who you are.
So mistakes are so important. Risk is so vital. It's so part of art making and it's what creates the value in this activity in art making. And I think it's the draw for people actually.
Taj: I have something you wrote here, which I find fascinating, which is: "art making for me has become mostly about trying to remain uninhibited, despite the fact that the next mistake is surely just around the corner."
Nick: You know, the fear is that... Oh my God, I like this. And if I do this next thing, I might lose it all, right? It's not so hard to be free and risky when you're starting because there's nothing of value sitting there. But once you fall in love, then it's a little scarier. But once you You know, you really understand that the art that is made from an authentic, um, fully expressed place of the artist, that unlocks everything.
That's the art that sells. That's the career changing art. If anyone listening is wanting to do this in a serious way, you've got to become uninhibited. You know, it's like, you can't be Othello in the play and be kind of. You know, don't want to be too loud and be a fellow, you got to God damn it, be a fellow and own it, be on fire and be in that place of your power.
That's what this is about. And that's the invitation.
Taj: Yeah, it's, it's an opportunity to just let yourself go. And it's a hard thing for people sometimes, but it's so rewarding.
Nick: You know, I think people, I think their soul pulls them into this because they're here to learn that. You know, I had a mother, she had this borderline personality disorder.
And basically what that is for those of you who haven't experienced it, I took me forever to understand what it was, but it was, it was challenging as a little kid, her sense of self was, she had a, didn't really value herself. And this happens because you have trauma or parents that don't love you. And she had all of that, but so anything you said that was.
It's not quite perfect. She took very, very personally. So I was holding her self worth for her. I did that to survive as a little kid, you know, I mean that if you want to know the origin story of why I help people see their own self worth, I, I learned this as a little kid. This is what I'm good at, you know, but it wasn't healthy to do that as a little kid.
It wasn't my job, but I can see the value in people. I recognize everyone's worth. And I can hold people's confidence for them until they can hold their own. And that's what I'm involved in and that's why I do it. That's what's so, it's so satisfying to me. I was trying to fill that for a long time. I had to fill it for my mom.
And I, of course, for myself, especially after that train wreck. That's why that happened to me too. I had to remember my worth.
Taj: So that's a perfect storm of an upbringing to create someone who is doing what you do, to have a father who championed creativity and a mother who really needed you to be sort of holding her up.
Nick: Yeah, it's, I have never actually spoken about my mother until right now. And you know, this is an origin story that I'm going to share with people because you're right, you know, it's so obvious, but it was never something that I really put together until just very recently now, obviously my father, and that's a no brainer, you know, it's like he was creative and one of his sayings was, there's nothing but money in art, you know, and.
So I never even had the limiting belief about you can't make money, particularly. I always leaned into creativity. Creativity for him was how he survived. And he came to this country from England, a war thrashed country in the fifties. And he started an advertising agency and he created his own business.
And it was just from sort of like his creative wit. It was an interesting blend of sort of helping someone who had no self worth and then dealing with a quite egotistical overconfident art parent, you know, that expected this of me. It's really interesting.
Taj: Yeah, I think you and I have some things in common.
I would say that those two sides were both in my mother. She was a sculptor. She just championed art. She didn't have that egotistical side, but she was really a creative and. Also very depressed and low self esteem and needed me to kind of hold her up in the same way.
Nick: What I'm doing is I'm just helping people become more themselves and I use art to do it.
It's an amazing thing creativity. It's just this is just everything for me.
Taj: Yeah, and for me in the coaching that I do, very similar mission that I see using creativity as a lens or as a tool to help people to really bring out their authentic selves, whatever arena that might be in, it's, it's very powerful.
Taj: Now we're going to take a very short break from the conversation for me to tell you a little bit about coaching. People often want some kind of a change in their lives. It might be in their work life, in their creative life, in their personal life, and maybe they have a really crystal clear idea of what it is that they want.
Or it could be just a general sense of needing something to change, wanting more fulfillment. Imagine that there's all these different parts inside of you with different desires and wants. And some of these parts are completely on board with moving toward change, and maybe one or more of them isn't quite so sure.
It's like when I used to be uncomfortable putting my face in the water when I would go swimming. I would just do the backstroke or the sidestroke. I was finding workarounds so that I wouldn't have to face My discomfort but avoiding that discomfort kept me limited in terms of what I was able to experience and do And that's no way to live.
I'll never forget the first time I went snorkeling So not only was I able to put my face in the water and still breathe But I suddenly saw all the beauty under the ocean surface and it was such a revelation. I went from feeling tense when I would swim to feeling totally relaxed and supported by the water.
It was like I was flying. A beautiful world opens up when you let go of a fear and suddenly you have the tools you need to move forward with a goal. And that's how I see coaching. We address the part of you that has ambivalence or reluctance to move forward. And once we really get to know what will help that part to feel safe and heard And on board with your dreams and your aspirations, it's amazing how things just begin to flow and become easier.
You're no longer moving toward your goal as if you were driving with one foot on the gas and one on the brake. Instead, there's flow and ease around it. Although there's going to be moments that are challenging, where you have to do some hard work, there has to be fun and play and creativity. As part of the process or else for me at least it's just not going to happen.
So if you'd like to explore further and see if you and I would be a good fit for coaching, I would like to offer you a free online coaching session. So you can go to TajBaker. com to book your free session. Now let's get back to the conversation.
Nick: Really, we're talking about a return to self. You know, people, when we're 12, we have a pretty good sense of what lights us up and we tend to I mean, I'm not saying for everybody, but for a lot of people I've worked with and for me too, I was, I kind of, you lose touch a little bit, you know, and you take on projects that others want you to do and you become doctors or whatever it is that you might later want to switch back to something that is more of your calling.
Taj: Yes, creativity as a way for us to uncover our authentic selves. You know, the planet really needs each of us to come forward with our deepest gifts and knowing who you are underneath the socialization is a huge part of uncovering those. I also was looking at a blog post of yours about ways to scale up your art.
Hmm. And I love this one. The canvas is a window into a larger world and what you're creating is just sort of a crop of something that's much larger.
Nick: Art comes only one way. It comes from being present and there's vulnerability. There's a lot of that artist's thinking and feeling in the work. That's what transmits.
And that's why it's so attractive. You know, the great work just has a tremendous amount of, of authenticity in it and fire and intention.
Taj: Yeah, that's why I think we don't have to be too concerned about AI replacing us. It's going to have a soul.
Nick: Yeah, right, exactly. And I get it, but it's like, we're making poetry.
We're human, soft feeling animals. I'm hoping that that's going to give us more time to truly connect with one another, to feel. The inside of ourselves and to make better choices, right? To make potent decisions about who we are and who we're with and, and what we actually want to do while we're here.
Taj: Yeah. And I think, you know, maybe AI can simulate poetry or, or images that are art, but we feel the difference inside.
Nick: Yeah. And as you were saying earlier, making the thing is what grows us. I mean, if it just, just order it, okay. You're going to get a facsimile or you'll get something and maybe that's handy if you want to sell more, but you don't want to miss out on the process of making, I mean, I wouldn't be interested in just the artifacts, it's how you make them.
It's that rainy day afternoon when you're painting and putting a color next to another color and what that reminds you of and all the nuances, it's such a rich experience, you know, man, you want to smell it, you want, you know, we have all these senses, so we want to bring them all to the task and. Yeah.
The fundamental feeling that we're all walking around the planet, it doesn't matter who you are or where you live or what economic status you're in or country or any of that, everyone pretty much wants to feel more alive. Get bazillionaires and all they do are like, they want to like thinking of like Richard Branson, right?
You know, he's got so much money and he, he just gets a hot air balloon and tries to fly around the world. You know? It's like, It doesn't matter. What matters to us is. Feeling alive in our life. And that comes from experiencing new and different things. I mean, different colors, different ways of being different art, different places, different people, right?
The routine is what. Kind of dulls us a little bit doing the same old, same old, same old. If we feel that way and try to make something, it's going to feel same old, same old, the energy, the juice, the fire within you comes from devolving yourselves in things that bring you alive, whether it's. It's the horseback riding or the yoga or your friends or this certain person or this book or just throwing rocks in a river, whatever it is, paying attention to this, this curation of your life is, is a tool.
You know, we, we spoke earlier before I came on, you know, like what is helpful, you know, maybe we can talk about some things you and I share this, right? Like let's talk about things that might be helpful for the listeners. Well, it's this, it's, it's this. Idea of curation, this idea of differences. When we spend all our afternoons, you know, in a soul sucking job, when we take a day off, we feel extraordinarily alive, you know, we want to try to pay attention to.
Our human animal. So, so we can be in this state more. This that's creativity. Creativity is a chain reaction that comes out of feeling alive, feeling inspired. It's an overflow of energy. And we go, Oh my God, I just feel so fired up. I'm going to just, I'm going to make something. I'm going to help something.
I'm going to build something. I'm going to start a garden today. You know, it's that kind of. Energy that comes from innately optimizing yourself, giving yourself what brings you alive. And you got to kind of choose that. Fortunately, unfortunately, you know,
Taj: yeah, there's so many different aspects of life. We can bring creativity to, as you were speaking just now, I was imagining someone making a list of maybe their bottom three areas of their life, or maybe just one, what's your least favorite part of your day and how could you bring some creativity to that?
And it could be in so many different forms, you know, like a few weeks ago, early December, I was walking around my neighborhood and my neighbors had this inflatable sleigh and reindeer in the front yard, but the front reindeer had a black nose. So while that family was out one day, I saw their car was gone.
I took some red wrapping paper and I basically turned the front reindeer into Rudolph, just a little tape and some paper. And, uh, it was such a fun little stealth mission. It was just, you know, it's not a big, huge thing. It's not going to be in a museum, but it was just a creative moment in my day that just made me giggle and hopefully made them laugh too.
Nick: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. As an entrepreneur and a business owner and looking to impact more and more people in the world, you come across roadblocks, you know, but when you start asking yourself, well, how, how might I reach more people or how might I help kids who don't have the resources to make art?
Once you start down that. How thing that's creativity and, you know, brainstorming ideas. And so creatives, once you kind of start using this creativity thing, it's a problem solver and you can apply it to all aspects of your life. And. It's not stressful. It's actually really fun. It's fun to do with people, you know, I love it.
So yeah, it's certainly the, some of the best experiences have to do with being in that flow, being in that creative mindset, you know,
Taj: and from an improv point of view, I would think when you're talking about the problem solving, it can be really useful to think of the most over the top, ridiculous solutions to your problem, and then notice whether there's a grain of.
Truth or usefulness in that, you know, something you would never ever do, but maybe it gives you the spark to find the actual solution.
Nick: Yeah, I don't know if you've read, I just recently read this book called 10x is easier than 2x, meaning that. To make something a company or whatever massively bigger, 10 times bigger is easier to do than just making it twice as big, just kind of a bold statement.
But there's a really interesting idea in the book. And I so related to it. If you want to just improve things, there's so many ways to do it, just to make things. Much better that it's almost hard to decide, but if you want to make something 10 times better, it gets really clear, really fast on. There's really like one way or maybe two at the most.
And so it's a way of clarifying. What is the good way to do it? So by exaggerating those things, and I imagine an improv, it's like that. Don't throw out the outrageous, you know, use this, push yourself creatively. So, because you can come up with all kinds of great solutions, really practical ones, that if you spend your time doing those, that's going to move the needle far greater than just one of the ones that are just kind of more routine, you know.
Taj: Absolutely. And I also think that it's really helpful to examine what our assumptions are about creativity, about art, making a list of, you know, creativity is, or I am in terms of creativity, and then maybe questioning some of those statements. Cause it can free you up to be more spontaneous, more authentic.
Nick: Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, the, the makings of anything great, everyone already has all of that within them. It's just a matter of understanding it, believing it, uh, and saying it out loud. But there's lots of challenges with that. I have two daughters and they're out of college now and have careers. I know them firsthand.
I know they are brilliant. Both of them. There's I want to hire them kind of thing, you know? And I often say to them, when are you going to just create your own thing? And they're like, Oh no, not yet. But they just don't believe yet, which I understand, but. If they were just given more freedom and this is the complaint they have in their jobs that they're just they're dead end young people meet dead ends because the those in power aren't letting them rip like come on, show us something give us go do take care of this show us what you can do, you know, the soul wants that whether you have to do that for yourself, or you have the opportunity to work for somebody who you get that Ability to grow and expand, but if you don't people just they quit, you know, because it's not fun.
Your soul is not interested in just the status quo. It doesn't want that. It'll put up with it for a while, but eventually you will move on. You'll just go crazy because it's just the worst.
Taj: Yeah, very much so people need to be challenged in that window of. doable challenge, so it's not overwhelmed. It's enough that they're growing.
Yeah, that's the, the, the sweet spot. So if there's somebody listening right now who has had some success with their art in terms of their own personal satisfaction, and they've hit a spot where it's just not flowing anymore, what would you suggest to them?
Nick: Well, I would suggest that we have different courses and one of our big programs coming up is called the creative visionary program, but to introduce some of the ideas that we've been talking about today, we do a free workshop and.
This is a really great opportunity for people to learn some new ideas, some principles, so they can feel more free and more inspired. Pretty much everything we've been talking about today relates to what we teach in this workshop. I would definitely. Recommend that and, and they can sign up for that if they just go to artlifefree.
com. You know, we get thousands and thousands of people that do this workshop every year. So it's kind of our way of giving back. It's a really great, uh, week. It's five days. And, um, You know, we just cover a lot of, a lot of ground and we're making art together and it's, it's just really great. So, uh, yeah, just go to artlifefree.
com and, and sign up and we'll, uh, put you on the mailing list for it. And, and that's coming out. Um, uh, not too soon after this podcast release, I believe.
Taj: And if they're interested in the destination workshops, where would they find more info on that?
Nick: Yeah. So, my company's called art to life. So it's art, the number two life. Art2life.com . So they can, they can, you know, uh, sign up for, they can review and see what, uh, destination workshops there are. I also have a blog that comes out every Sunday where I'm basically, it's like teaching for free every Sunday. It's really fun. Uh, we have a big community of people that are contributing. And if you go to art to life.
com, you can sign up for that. And if you're on that. Uh, list, um, for that we email that out every Sunday. Um, you will surely hear about the free workshop and, um, all, all that. So, um, that's another good way to go. Well,
Taj: thank you so much for your time. This has been really a wonderful conversation.
Nick: No, it's so good and I, I was, it's really great to meet you and, and, and see what you're doing.
It's, um, it's, it's great work. Thank you so much. Okay. Thanks so much.
Taj: So that's it for this episode of Playful Presence. Next time you're stuck creatively, try making a list of things that you would never ever do to your art and then maybe try one of them. I'd like to thank my guest. Nicholas Wilton. I'd also like to thank Robin Jackson for the theme music that you hear at the beginning of the show.
To check out my website, go to tajbaker. com and you can sign up there for a free coaching session, or sign up for my newsletter. So, that's it for Playful Presence, and thanks for listening!