#46 - Facing and Defeating Death As A Triple Amputee with Erik Galvan

Erik, affectionately known as "G," takes us on an unforgettable journey from his roots in Dallas to the battlefields of Afghanistan. Guided by his brother's influence, Erik's path into the Marine Corps is one of unexpected twists, from party-crashing escapades in California to the relentless grind of infantry training. Along the way, Erik shares gripping accounts of his deployment, painting vivid images of the emotional farewells, the intense brotherhood among Marines, and the high-stakes missions that defined his service.

The episode delves into Erik's life-altering experiences in Afghanistan, where patrolling the poppy fields presented unique strategic challenges. He recounts the rapid escalation of combat operations and surviving a near-fatal IED explosion, offering a raw and unfiltered look at the realities faced by young Marines. As Erik navigates the aftermath of his injuries, his story becomes a powerful testament to resilience, detailing his remarkable recovery journey amidst the unwavering support of his partner and family.

The narrative does not stop at survival; it explores Erik's transition from military life to civilian hood, capturing the trials of adapting to a new reality while handling financial compensation and emotional hurdles. Through humor and heartfelt anecdotes, Erik showcases the importance of support networks in healing and moving forward. From accidentally running a marathon to finding camaraderie in Tough Mudder events, Erik’s story is a compelling reminder of the power of perseverance, adaptability, and the enduring bonds forged through shared experiences. Join us as we celebrate Erik's incredible journey and reflect on the diverse paths life can offer.

Chapters

• 0:09 Military Life
• 14:23 Weekend Party and Deployment Preparation
• 24:59 Deployment Preparation and Arrival
• 32:50 Daily Patrols Among Poppy Fields
• 38:33 Rapid Escalation of Combat Operations
• 51:55 Unexpected Mission Turned Tragic
• 1:00:51 Surviving Near-Death Experience and Recovery
• 1:10:43 Healing After Traumatic Amputation
• 1:14:41 Rehabilitation Process and Prosthetic Adjustment
• 1:24:51 Transitioning After Military Service
• 1:38:35 Accidental Marathon and Tough Mudder
• 1:47:53 Building Bonds Through Tough Mudder
• 1:53:31 Importance of Support in Military Life
• 2:00:00 Supporting Decisions for the Future

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

Eric, it's not man it's been a long time, been a long time. We've known each other a long time. Yeah, going on 12 years, yeah, it's been a minute. Why don't you? Uh, we're just gonna jump into it, we're gonna shoot the shit. I have nothing, nothing driven for this episode, except for just sitting down having a conversation with you. I know, um, you've been through a lot your military life.

Speaker 1: 0:33

Yeah, short military life, yeah short span of it and um, before moving on to the civilian world, starting a family and going to school and and just living life now. So let's just get an intro we're gonna dump into it and let the people know and I know the audience loves to hear some crazy war stories, which I know you've got a pretty interesting one.

Speaker 2: 0:53

I don't have many.

Speaker 1: 0:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 0:55

But let's jump into it yeah.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Where are you? Where are you?

Speaker 2: 0:56

from yeah. So, eric, I'm from Dallas Friends call me G, from Dallas Friends call me G, and I joined the Marine Corps out of high school. I didn't know really what to do. My older brother had already joined the Marine Corps and he knew, since he was biting ankles, that that's where he was going to go, since he was eating crayons. Yeah, you know. Sniffing glue, licking the walls, wearing a helmet.

Speaker 1: 1:21

Perfect Marine.

Speaker 2: 1:27

Yeah, perfect, yeah, so he had joined, and when it's time for me to finish high school and figure out what I'm gonna do with life, I was like I don't, I don't know. You know, there's a lot of us kids collectively. My parents, you know, had kids with respect to spouses, so it's a lot of us collectively. Um, I'm not really wasn't like a big uh school kid, you know, like, oh, let's, let's go to college, um, but I also didn't want to go and like flip burgers for minimal wage either, sure, I don't know what to do. And so my brother was like you know what, just join, just join the marine corps, or just join the military and you can see the world and, if anything, at the end of it, just go to school and then figure out life. But at least you get a few years to kind of figure that out. Yeah, okay, cool.

Speaker 2: 2:05

So I'm going to the local um recruiters and I'm going like one by one, trying to figure it out. And, um, you know, I call my brother. He was doing um infantry training at the time, so he'd get like weekends off. And so I call him up. I'm excited. I'm like yo'm like yo, I got to talk to recruiters. He's like okay, cool, who are you going to go with? I was like man, I don't know. I was going to think maybe like the Coast Guard. I was a punk kid. I was like I just want to coast. He's like no, no, no, no, no, no. Brother of mine is going to join the military and not be a Marine. I didn't know anything about it For sure.

Speaker 1: 2:41

He's still young.

Speaker 2: 2:42

Yeah. So I called up the Marine recruiter. I'm like, hey, I want to join, you don't have to come and pitch me anything, you don't have to sign it. Do you hold Savior's Spiel? I'm joining Guaranteed. And he's like man, easy day in the office for that guy Right. And so he shows up, he does. You know, what do you want to do in the Marine Corps? And this and that.

Speaker 2: 3:02

And I was like I don't know, you know like every Marine must be a cop. And I was like MP Motor T, I don't know, like I just something that can just kind of skate by. And so they had me down for military police Motor T. And I forget what the last one was. He like had like three options, and so I'm pumped. So the next time my brother gets like liberty on the weekend I call him up. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yo, guess what? I signed the paperwork, you know. He's like cool, what's your MOS? I was like, well, I think it's like no brother of mine is going to join the Marine Corps and not be a goddamn infantryman. And I'm like, okay, I didn't know any better. So I call my recruiter up Yo, it's not going to work. I got to be in infantry and he's like.

Speaker 1: 3:54

You were a recruiter's wet dream.

Speaker 2: 3:56

Yeah, he was like boom, perfect. And he's like well, we have no openings right now. Because openings right now? Because I think it was like later, later in the years. Okay, it's like december or something, when I like did all my paperwork, like there's no openings right now. So what we can do is just kind of keep it as is, but if something comes up I'll plug you into the spot. Okay, fair enough with me, you know, at least I'm not going to open contract, and so that's how it was then. Then I graduated in like June what year is this? 2009. Okay, and I want to say, right before I graduated I got a call from the recruiter and he's like somebody dropped out. You know they can't go, so there's an infantry spot open if you want it, but you leave and like it wasn't like super soon after graduation, but it was like soon. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:45

You weren been like it wasn't like super soon after graduation, but it was like soon, yeah. Like you weren't having the summer home right like my. My brother left the next day, like he got his diploma and shipped out the next day I wasn't, mine, wasn't that sure okay okay, mine was like I got a couple weeks or something like that yeah, I was like okay, sure, boom plugging me in.

Speaker 2: 4:58

And and that was it. That was philosophy, wrote, and so I, I shipped out um, had my birthday in boot camp and where'd you go to boot camp? In san diego. How was that?

Speaker 1: 5:07

so did you ever travel beforehand, or are you strictly texas? And then now you're in san diego for the first time so we did.

Speaker 2: 5:14

We went to florida once as a kid we did like a lot of stuff to galveston driving distance. Yeah, you know, fishing in the coast. Um went to mexico a few times. My dad had some family still down there, so we went to Mexico and then it just got too bad so we stopped going.

Speaker 1: 5:28

So now you go from Dallas to San Diego. What's that like landing in San Diego.

Speaker 2: 5:35

Well, so we get there and I already sort of knew sort of what to expect. My brother kind of gave me a lowdown and then we get to like receiving. I'm in san diego and we really don't know, because you're at mcrd, so like you're in california, but you're like not, you don't know anything. And, um, boot camp was. You know it? It was boot camp. I don't have really many funny stories really. Yeah, um, I couldn't climb the the rope. You know to like do your legs.

Speaker 1: 6:04

Some dudes struggle on that for sure, but I was pretty fixed.

Speaker 2: 6:08

I play sports so I would just muscle my way up there, yep, but they wouldn't count it because I wasn't doing it properly. So they'd make me do it multiple times, up and down, and I got smoked one day and I was at the very top and the drill instructor said you need to come down. I one day, and I was at the very top and the drill starts you need to come down. And I can't make it and he's like you better get down this rope. And I let go the very top and I crashed to the bottom and, uh, we're like done. You know, I'm like, oh yeah, he's like you, stupid, you know. And he's like if you would have broken whatever. And so I got, I got a pretty good ass one and I got um, I teed right after that. Oh yeah, yeah, um. But I don't have any really funny. I know some people have some funny stories from boot camp, but I just don't remember some dudes, cruise man, like the, the little fly on the wall recruits, I mean they.

Speaker 1: 6:56

There's a lot of dudes that get through.

Speaker 2: 6:57

So so I just cruised through left boot camp and went home to do like recruiting training while I waited for M-Tree School to pick up and then went to the M-Tree School and then I sort of got a sense of California. We didn't get a lot of weekends off. I don't know if my class was just a bunch of retards where my instructor was like the best you can do is stay in the little horseshoe right here or go to the PX, but that's it.

Speaker 2: 7:22

Really right here or go to the px. That's it really. I think we had gotten off base maybe three times in the 10-week course at the infantry school was or whatever it was. I got to leave base maybe like three times okay how was that?

Speaker 1: 7:34

are you now? This is obviously. Infantry school is much different than all the other mos schools. So I mean what, what goes on in infantry school compared to you know?

Speaker 2: 7:44

I mean what goes on in infantry school compared to you know. So I was just a regular infantry rifleman, which is 0311. But once you go to infantry school, that's where you get put into like mortars. We had the assaultman, which I don't even think is a thing anymore. All the other infantry-related MOSs has to go to ITB or SOI. Okay.

Speaker 2: 8:09

And everybody's together for like the first half of it, because you just get really nitty-gritty meat and potatoes of what it is to be an infantryman and then after that everybody goes to their individualized infantry training, whatever that may be.

Speaker 1: 8:24

And are those guys signing up for it and going in, or are they selecting you out of the beginning of it?

Speaker 2: 8:29

No, these guys already have it in their contract.

Speaker 1: 8:31

Okay, so they're going as a mortarman or as a machine gunner, right Okay?

Speaker 2: 8:34

Yeah, so they're going as a 31 machine gunner, they're going as a 41 mortarman. They already had that selected.

Speaker 1: 8:38

Got it, then you're just, it's basically 0311. 0311.

Speaker 2: 8:42

So like once we do the split, then you just kind of do you know we're doing more hikes and you know land nav and very broad stroke type of stuff just to get you ready for the fleet. Nothing crazy, but you really get you know the meat and potatoes of land nav with. You know your map and your compass and your protractor. You really get the meat and potatoes of kind of camouflaging and tape and stuff like that and hikes and elevation differentiations. So we got through all that and then I ended up getting stationed with the 15. So where infantry school is and where I ended up getting stationed was just right over one of the like little mountain ranges okay, super close yeah, um, so I get there into like the receiving or whatever, and um, it's like a lottery, you know, like I don't.

Speaker 2: 9:38

Uh, all the new guys get in. We're in a room, all the senior guys are there and like we want that guy.

Speaker 1: 9:42

It's kind of an awkward.

Speaker 2: 9:43

It's an awkward time, yeah it's like being in a draft and you're like. You know you don't want to be the last kid on the playground to get picked, but you're also like man, I don't know what's going on yeah, or who's who, who's who.

Speaker 2: 9:53

I think this guy looks like a huge asshole yeah, and so end up getting picked up and a lot of the guys, the senior guys, had just gotten back from a deployment so he just got back from nowa. You know, much like anybody coming off a deployment, the adrenaline is still very high I was gonna say you that's.

Speaker 1: 10:11

The worst case scenario is to be a boot like right, to be a boot, drop and then right go to a battalion. That just got back. You're, you're done. I mean you are public enemy number one.

Speaker 2: 10:21

As a young marine, for sure and they sure, and they took some heavy hits in Nawa too. So knowing it now. But then I'm like man, why are these guys such pricks? They're still trying to reevaluate life themselves and come back. So we go in, we get there, and a lot of my senior guys were actually not bad. Really they were pretty solid dudes. Yeah, I mean you got the one or the occasion, one or two, that were just, like you said, short timers getting out. So they're having their fun with the new guys, yeah, but most of them were pretty squared away.

Speaker 2: 10:56

And my roommate who I ended up being a roommate with I think I may have talked to him maybe twice in SOI, but then we got into to be a roommate cholo dude from california and we actually hit it off super tight and it's like day one and we get there. It's like a thursday, so we gotta do laundry and we gotta do field day, because we had inspections the next day. So she's rolling right into laundry field days like it's gonna suck for a while. So we're in there in our room and you know we're doing laundry and you know we're trousers on, maybe our socks, that's it. You know we're dressing down for the night and there's a bang at the door, and so me being me, you you know. Oh, hey, yeah, open the door.

Speaker 2: 11:45

Never answer the door Dude boom, three dudes walk in One's like this big like probably from Iowa, corn fed like just huge like you a behemoth of a guy and I'm just like, all right, you know, and one of the guys sits down eating chips, you know, and this other guy walks in and he's like who's eating chips? And this other guy walks in and he's like, who are you? And this and that, and I was like motherfucker, you're in my room, who are you? And so we're going back and forth and the big guy that's standing behind him closes the door and I'm just like, oh no, I know where this is going to go, but I'm not one to be like you're not punking me, you know, especially in my house, no, not happening. And so we were like close to like going at it, and there's another doc knock at the door and it was my senior marines.

Speaker 2: 12:39

These marines like walked in, thought we were like their boots oh, they were coming in just like raise hell on us yeah and our senior guy was like no, you guys are fucked up, like you got to go, and they're like, okay, but the guy that I, him and I were like this, like he didn't want to leave, and I was like, like we can, we can go, like we can dance if you want, man, like I don't this is day one in the fleet, day one and I.

Speaker 2: 13:03

I turned around and my roommate is, um, he's probably gonna watch this, he's probably gonna kill me, but he's at parade, rest behind me. And once these guys leave, I'm like bro, like what the fuck? You know? Like why'd you look back? Like we were, we were about to like get down, you know. And you're just there and he's like. He's like no, I'm like you don't get it, you know. And he pulls his hands out and he's holding his pocket knife and some scissors, and he's like we were going to get down. And I was like bro, I wasn't trying to commit murder, but I wasn't going to get my ass beat either.

Speaker 1: 13:32

He was just waiting for the right. He was just ready.

Speaker 2: 13:35

And since then, him and I were just tight.

Speaker 1: 13:37

Oh for sure we were tight. When you know a dude's got your like, truly got your back and you don't even know each other dude, that's it.

Speaker 2: 13:48

That's all you need. Dude, we were telling him and I we got into a few, a few tight spots, yeah, as boots, but he's been a one from day one, yeah yeah, that's always good to have too, because sometimes it takes some guys a while to to you know yeah, get in and with some dudes or whatever, especially being the new guy in the platoon Dude, yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:06

And so we just hit it off. That's hilarious. We went to a few house parties where, you know, we got down, you know, and so it was a good time.

Speaker 1: 14:14

Where were the house parties at? Where do you guys party? Where do grunts go to party?

Speaker 2: 14:19

We were crashing parties honestly Okay. So we were crashing parties honestly Okay. So a lot of my guys I wouldn't say a lot, but a good bit of them were from California. Yeah, so every time we'd go off base, we'd hit up my roommate's house or one of my other buddies and we'd just be like yo, I know you got friends, call up friends and we'd just crash parties. Yeah, friends, you know, um, we just crash parties, yeah. And so this one in particular, we go to my buddy, one of my other buddies. Um, he's like, yeah, you know, my friend like knows of a party we can just go, and so boom, bet.

Speaker 2: 14:55

So he was driving like a pickup at the time and so it was maybe one, two, three, four, maybe five of us that went plus his buddies, and so we went to this first place and it was just like like nothing. You know, nothing was like really going on. And so he's like I know of another, another party, it's this chick's um birthday. And we're like, okay, cool, let's go. So we hop in his truck, we cruise over and we go in the backyard. We don't talk to nobody, we just start pouring up you know alcohol drinks and we're just walking around. Cool, let's go. So we hop in his truck, we cruise over and we go in the backyard. We don't talk to nobody, we just start pouring up you know alcohol drinks and we're just walking around like we own the fucking party and I sit down in the back.

Speaker 2: 15:33

I mean house parties are cool, but it's not my deal, like I'm not. I mean some people are like't my thing. So I got my drink and I sat down and I'm like observing this party and I'm like doing a head count, you know, of like people and one of my buddies is just, already just tanked and he's the biggest dude out of all of us and he's just, you know, sleeping on the chair and I'm like that can't like if something goes down, that can't be good. You're the biggest guy here, yeah, we need you, yeah. And so I'm sitting there just kind of vibing and I'm watching the crowd and it starts to funnel Like out the side gate of this house. They just start funneling. Somebody came in the back and just started tapping dudes like on the shoulder and you just saw this party just start to funnel and I'm like okay, I was like well, there's, there's that guy, there's that guy, there's that guy. I was like shit, like where's, where's my roommate?

Speaker 2: 16:34

and so I kind of squeeze into like this shuffle of people to get out this gate and, sure enough, they're jumping my roommate and so I really yeah, and so I run up and I get in the mix, you know, and by this point all of our other buddies kind of realized what's going on. So it's like five of us against like 30 of these guys, this party are these other marines?

Speaker 1: 16:56

or are these just normal, no normal civilians? Okay?

Speaker 2: 16:58

so it's like the five of us and like, yeah, this group of guys and one of us is drunk sitting in the backyard, so it's really four of us against this big crowd and there was no way we were going to win. So we did what we could and tried to like de-escalate and remove ourselves from the situation and we start walking. So we like start separating and we start walking back to the truck and we're like, well, shit, where's the dozer, you know, walking back to the truck. And we're like, well, shit, where's where's a dozer, you know? And so like, so we turn around to walk back and this big crowd starts walking back towards us, like we're gonna get into it again. Yeah, and here comes my buddy and he's just stumbling out. They're like shoving him towards us, and so we end up leaving. But yeah, it was stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 17:38

like stuff like that in the weekend. Yeah, oh for sure. Yeah, so soi. Once you go through a 10-week course, what's the next steps? For a young infantryman like yourself, is that where you went to 3-5? 1-5. Sorry, 1-5.

Speaker 2: 17:56

Yeah, so that's pretty much it. So you do your schooling and then you go over to your unit.

Speaker 1: 18:02

Yep.

Speaker 2: 18:03

And then now you're getting settled in, you're getting getting settled in, getting the lay, the land, yep um. But then we jumped right into a workup. So the guys.

Speaker 2: 18:12

The guys got back from their deployment and they had probably like a month, maybe a couple months, and then we jumped right back into a workup. That sucks, yeah, um, not so much for the senior guys. A good portion of them were getting out Okay, so they didn't have to worry about getting spun up, they were just cruising, yeah. And so the whole battalion was a boot battalion, except for, like a handful of you know, squad leaders, platoon sergeants, things like that. Even some of our platoon commanders were were new guys really yeah, so just a big boot battalion.

Speaker 2: 18:49

So for us we didn't know any better. Um, but a lot of the senior guys were like, yeah, this blows because they just got off one and now they're jumping right back into another one been there but yes, we did like, uh see, I got there, it was a February of 2010, and then we deployed in March 2011.

Speaker 2: 19:08

Okay, so, like a year workup, we jumped right into it, yep, and so that pretty much took up. A majority of the time was just workups Field ops, field ops, things like that. A lot of hiking, italian hikes, stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 19:20

Where are you guys going? Do you know yet, or did they?

Speaker 2: 19:24

We didn't know yet. We didn't know until kind of partway through and it changed. So at first we were supposed to go like in the mountains somewhere. So we were doing a lot of hikes like all these ridges and in Pendleton we went up to Bridgeport to do the cold weather training.

Speaker 1: 19:45

Yeah, the mountain warfare training or whatever.

Speaker 2: 19:47

So they were thinking we were going to be in the mountains in Afghanistan and as it got closer it changed and we got word that we were going to relieve 3-5 in Sengen and that was more like fields and crops and things like that flatlands, little wadis and canals and shit like that.

Speaker 1: 20:06

And they're the typical Marine Corps shit. They get you, they send you up to Bridgeport, you're just hiking, humping mountains for this whole workup and then, right before they're like, by the way, you're going to be in the valleys.

Speaker 2: 20:17

You know, I didn't mind.

Speaker 1: 20:18

Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2: 20:25

I was like man, if I'm to Bridgeport and this blows like I don't do that for a deployment, deployment fighting people, yeah, I'd rather be, you know, on the flatlands, yeah, it was, it was whatever. Bridgeport was cool. We got, you know, snowed on and we're just in little, you know, not even tents, we're just poncho liners trying to god, you know, doing a fighting hole. It was.

Speaker 1: 20:39

It was terrible yeah, bridgeport is uh. I mean it could be a lot of fun, but it could be an absolutely miserable place to also be at as well yeah, I had a good time.

Speaker 2: 20:50

I mean there was, like anybody else, there's times that you really didn't like, but a good portion of the time I enjoyed it. I enjoyed my time. But we ended up getting word that we were going to take over for 3.5 and the intel we were getting we were like they're passing it down and they're like, yeah, 3-5 is, they're taking it, they're getting hard hit, they hit hard and it really didn't register for the battalion because, again, we're a new battalion, for the most part a lot of young guys.

Speaker 1: 21:20

So you don't have a lot of guys kind of feeding you the intel what's actually going on and what to look forward to right.

Speaker 2: 21:26

So, like some of the senior guys are, you know they're trying to do their best, right? We have a handful of squad leaders that that have done some time prior deployments, um, platoon commander platoons are a similar deal, but a lot of our like corporals or like small leader, um small unit leadership type stuff, yeah, um, not a whole lot of experience on their end either, even though, like ncos and things like that. So you know, a lot of us are like, yeah, like let's, this is what we train for.

Speaker 2: 21:53

We want to go you're excited and get some yeah, and we're getting reports like oh, three, five loss this many people today or they got these casualties. These are the types you know, things that they're looking for s and not a whole lot of indirect fire, but when it happens like you're in it for a while and um, what's going?

Speaker 1: 22:10

through your what's your thought process at this point. It's just, I mean, you're a young kid but you're getting reports back to three, five. I mean they got their asses handed to them dude.

Speaker 2: 22:18

Yeah, they took a hard hit yeah, I mean it's they.

Speaker 1: 22:20

They lost a lot of casualties. I mean, are you even processing this or are you just still like? Not really having a clue what's going on.

Speaker 2: 22:28

It's really one of those. You have no clue what's going on.

Speaker 2: 22:30

You're taking the intel and you're like, well, I mean, at the end of the day, this is what I signed up for, okay, and like I got my training and I want to go and put that to action, Okay, you know, I want to put what I've learned into um, into work, yeah, and so that was I would. I would only speak for everybody else, but that was kind of how I saw it and it didn't really register like this is a big boy game for sure, it's not. You know, you're not going there and coming home, kind of deal. It didn't register really until we actually got there.

Speaker 2: 23:03

So we got all this intel that we're going to leave 3-5, and we had this one sergeant who was getting out and pretty funny guy I still follow him on social media, he's doing good, thankfully but he ended up hurting himself so he couldn't go on the deployment and it was just some freak accident where he like caught himself but he like messed some stuff up and got attended, yeah, so he couldn't go, but he was a funny dude and I remember one day I think we just got back from a field op or I remember walking to the armory, whether we were dropping weapons off or retrieving weapons, and he's walking alongside us, got something else going on. He wasn't even doing what we were doing and he's like, looking at us, he's like yep, you're coming home with no legs. Yep, you look like you'd be shot. Oh, you're tall as you're getting shot, you know. And he's just, and we're just like being that shit-head Marine.

Speaker 2: 24:07

Yeah, and we're like man. This dude's not right in the head and you know it's a funny dude and um, I was telling him and I told one of my uh, my team leader too. He's a big dude, we're still pretty cool. And um, I was like man. I got a low silhouette, I'm straight, I'm golden. You know like I was, I'm cool and um, we saw that happened, how that worked out. We didn't right uh, but we'll get into that later. But uh, but yeah, just a funny dude.

Speaker 1: 24:25

So you're like oh, let's do predict the future.

Speaker 2: 24:28

Yeah, yeah, hit a little crystal ball you know, um, but yeah, so again, I think that was like the mentality of at least for me was um, well, I mean, just what we signed up for us, what we trained for you know sure join in the middle of a war, not expecting to go to war yep, so you're in.

Speaker 1: 24:45

Yeah, you guys are got the word. You do a year's worth of workups. Are you flying straight there? How'd you guys? I mean, you're going now, you're going to afghan right so yes, so we leave. It's getting close to time, I mean is. Is the atmosphere in the platoon starting to change? Things are getting a lot more serious, or was it kind of the same all the way through?

Speaker 2: 25:06

Yeah, I mean, I think, as far as the serious level and the tempo, it stayed consistent.

Speaker 1: 25:11

Okay, that's good.

Speaker 2: 25:11

Like we understood the serious of what we were about to go do, the seriousness of what we were about to do. So we maintained that tempo and that mentality. But so I guess, like nothing changed as it got closer. I think we were just getting more kind of like antsy and like ready to go as it got closer, for sure, but it wasn't. Like you know, we had like this lull where it was like, okay, we're just coasting through the training, and then we ramped it up at the end. I think we were already kind of up here because we're getting these reports, you know, from 3-5. We're already kind of up here because we're getting these reports, you know, from 3-5. And so we didn't take it light. Like we understood, like we're going to get down when we get there, and so we just maintained that You're walking into a fistfight Right, and so like we already were kind of well aware of what to expect. But you know we can't be lax in that regard. So we were just kind of ready to go.

Speaker 1: 26:05

So you're flying to afghan. What's it like preparing to get ready to go? I mean, you're getting a gear list, you're getting your pack. Is it weird knowing that you're everything that belongs to you is coming in a bag? And because for us, bags being in a tanker, you know an amtrak, we got seven cues, we got pat, we could stuff shit everywhere, so we we got it. Plush, we have everything that we need yeah, so we got for you.

Speaker 2: 26:26

You're leaving with what we got two seat bags, a day pack and our main pack. Okay, and weapon, that's it. That's it. So everything else you own not that we owned a lot had to be sent home or put in storage or whatever. So, um, I got a little uh 96 tacoma when I was there. That ended up like driving home, um, and so I just loaded up my truck, so we did. Our pre-deployment leave was in, I want to say December, so we just kind of packed everything up that I wasn't gonna have to take to Afghanistan and I drove it, it home, left the truck home and then just flew back. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:07

And then the little bit of possessions that I did have that wasn't going to Afghanistan with me. I ended up leaving with my girl my wife now, but we were just dating at the time. I left it at her place where her parents' place Left it there. And then, yeah, just two sea bags a day pack, a main pack and your rifle, and that was good.

Speaker 1: 27:25

And off you go and off you go. So you load up. Where did you guys head? Down to San Diego? Did you load up on Pendleton? How do they fly you guys and where? Out of?

Speaker 2: 27:33

Yeah, so we loaded up from Pendleton. You know we stayed right there in, like the basketball courts. Okay, we got the basketball courts.

Speaker 1: 27:45

Okay, got in those white prison buses and then we drove to march air force base and all your family said goodbye to you there at the basketball courts, or did they follow you to march?

Speaker 2: 27:50

uh, I don't think anybody went to march. Everybody, all the families were there.

Speaker 1: 27:54

Yeah, only person that was there for me was my wife and her mom it's a super awkward feeling when you're prepared, you're deploying that like within yeah hours yeah and you got guys that within hours You've got guys that are holding their babies, wives fiancés, and you're saying your goodbyes, yeah and there was guys there who had nobody there.

Speaker 2: 28:15

If it wasn't for my wife and her mom, nobody would have been there. I'm not trying to talk ill of my folks. They're busy. What are they going to do? They're just going to stand there like cool. I'm not trying to talk ill of my folks. I mean, you know they're busy and probably what are they going to do? Right, they're just going to stand there like cool, like you left. All right, now I've got to go all the way back home to Texas, like I wouldn't want them there anyway, yep, but you're right, it's a weird feeling.

Speaker 2: 28:41

We left like new wives saying goodbye. You know it's odd, it is odd. You know I didn't again, I didn't know how to take it my first deployment, and so I'm like all right, cool, like I'll call and write when I can, but you know we'll be cool. You know, still not really understanding the gravity of what we were going to walk into. Yeah, we knew it's a serious situation, but just the gravity of what it all entailed was still the tempo Was still lost on me a little bit, yeah, but so we got on the buses and I found this out later but when my wife and her mom were like leaving. She like turned to my wife and was like he's not coming back the same, like she had like this weird, like a really dream thing and she's like it's like I don't think he's gonna die, but he's not coming back the same, really missing something, yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:35

And so I was like huh, that's odd yeah, I mean, some people just have that intuition.

Speaker 2: 29:39

Thanks for putting that out there yeah, um, you know, some people just have that intuition, um, but but I found this out like way later. Yeah, yeah, yeah, even if she would have called me, it's not like I would have been jumped off the bus like no, I want to keep my toes, you know? Yeah, there's nothing you're changing, yeah, but anyway. So we go up to March, mm-hmm, and then then from there we flew into kajakistan I think it is um and we're there for like a few days, and then from there we um got heloed into afghanistan oh, really yeah what's that like?

Speaker 2: 30:19

loading onto a bird yeah, so I, I think, I think that's how we got into. It's a leatherneck, we got on the bird, but uh, you know it. You know, I don't know. It's kind of hard to explain. Um, I don't remember that part as much as getting um key load into our ao because we landed under fire, um, so it was just. We're grabbing ourself off this running your first, your first yeah, so seconds on the ground.

Speaker 2: 30:48

You're already under fire yeah so so we start to land and they, they drop the tail end and they're like, hey, just get ready. Like every time that we have like landed, like we've come under some sort of like fire, so just be ready, and like, within like a few steps of like the first person running off the bird, you hear like shots and so you're just like staying low and like sprinting to the HESCO barriers, um, and you're like we're here. Yeah, so that was just it's because we stopped, um, we got dropped into like the main fob, like the main pb, okay, um, and so we're there for maybe a day or two and then from there we took um vehicle like mraps or whatever it was down, because we were like just down the road was where the ao that the patrol base that I worked out of was like right down the road, um, a few miles what's the environment like?

Speaker 1: 31:42

it's desert, but are you? Is there mountain ranges near you? Is that where the fire is coming from? Are you based near a city?

Speaker 2: 31:47

um, so the the main patrol base is like we're outside the city. Okay, we had a patrol base kind of like in the middle of the city. I forget what what the name of that patrol base was. Um, but the main patrol base were like the co is hanging out, company guns, whatever, it's just desert, got it. And then you got a little sand, dune, mountains type thing kind of out in the expanse. Okay, and then we had this road it was called Route 611, I think it was, and on the other side it was all green because it butted up to the Hellman and so all the farmlands were on that side of the road and then it's all desert and dunes and mountain on this side.

Speaker 2: 32:30

And so the AO that I worked out of was the green zone, like all these farms by the Hellman. So that was the AO that we worked out of. And we did one mission where we had to helo in across the Hellman like these little mountain village and kind of clear this village for whatever. But that was the AOI promenade that worked, got it.

Speaker 1: 32:50

And what did your day-to-day go? What was your day-to-day like? Are you ground or are you mobile?

Speaker 2: 32:55

Ground, everything was ground.

Speaker 1: 32:57

Everything.

Speaker 2: 32:58

Yeah, so unless we had to make trips to the main patrol base, everything was ground. We'll take VIX to the main patrol base, everything was aground. We'll take Vicks to the main patrol base. Or we had to take supplies to any other outposts, we'll drive the vehicles, but everything as far as maneuvering within our AO is all on foot.

Speaker 1: 33:16

So day one of your new FOB, you get in, you get settled. What's going through your head at this point? I mean, what's the environment like, what's the situation, what's?

Speaker 2: 33:25

going through your head at this point. I mean, what's the environment like, what's the situation?

Speaker 1: 33:30

You know it was a little chaotic because 3-5 is getting ready to head out, so you're doing left seat, right seat, Right seat, left seat, right seat, things like that.

Speaker 2: 33:34

I think we relieved. I think it was Kilo 3-5, I think. Okay. And so they're all packing up, they're pumped, they're ready to get out of there. They had a hell of a deployment. So the first I want to say, like the first week it was we were doing rips with 3-5s, we were patrolling with them. So our patrols are long.

Speaker 1: 33:54

Massive.

Speaker 2: 33:55

yeah, we're doing like ranger files where you're just kind of behind each other and just massive things.

Speaker 2: 33:59

And so I'm up there with their point man because I'm, you know, switching spots with that guy and he's pointing out things that they've seen in the AO, things to kind of watch out for, how to sort of spot IEDs and even though we had engineers and like that was their whole main life and purpose, when Afghanistan is, you know, helping us, you know metal detect with, with the ieds and things like that, um, the point man is kind of like their second set of eyes and their security. If they have to get down there and you know probe for an idea. Okay, like I'm their eyes and security, yeah, um, but it made sense for me to kind of know some of the signs as well. So we're doing that and you know it was. It was quiet like the ao, like nothing was going on, because they're still growing poppy. So three, five heads out and then we just sort of take over and we're just kind of hooking and jiving and not a whole lot's going on because they're still growing the poppy.

Speaker 1: 34:54

Oh, so while they're doing that, they're trying not to kick a hornet's nest over there, because they want it to be left alone so they can grow their crops.

Speaker 2: 35:05

Right, they want to be left alone so they can grow their crops, right, okay, so they. So they already don't want to. You know, hook and jab with coalition forces, like they already don't want to, let alone the marine corps. Um, so when a typical patrol's going out, you know, unless they are trying to see a law, I guess you know, they for the most part try to leave you alone, especially when they're growing the crops, because that's where they get the funding to fund, you know, whatever Taliban, isis, whatever people were there. So then when you see you know two squads plus reinforcements worth of patrol going out, like everybody's inside, like nobody's outside, their goats are inside, like no, you don't see nobody. 3-5 left. It was cool for the first few months, so we got there in March. It didn't start really popping off until June and that's because they harvested all the poppy.

Speaker 1: 35:58

You guys, I mean the poppy fields. You're not able to destroy them. They have to be left alone. Yeah, you have to leave them alone. Yeah, Isn't that crazy, knowing that's what's funding this war? And here you are, boots on the ground, patrolling through poppy fields yeah, Not being able to destroy them, to let them harvest their crops to be able to sell, to make opium, heroin, whatever, to fund the war that you're over there fighting.

Speaker 2: 36:23

Hearts and minds.

Speaker 1: 36:24

Isn't our government just incredible?

Speaker 2: 36:26

Yeah, you know. It's like this is clear where they're getting their money from. Yeah, you know, and, granted, you know, not all the farmers you know or the locals hate us right. They're in a tough spot. They're between a rock and a hard place. It's either I can help you and be left alone and potentially get murked by, you know, this taliban force, the isis, whatever it is, or I continue to harvest these plants and pay them off and hope you don't drop a day jam on my, on my village yeah for being up and again, you know, miss miscued, as you know the enemy, and then I get a jay dam dropped on top of my compound.

Speaker 2: 37:02

So they're really like really a lot of people really trying to like flirt that line. Granted, there are plenty of people in the local populace that are just like, yeah, that guy is definitely a taliban or the enemy guy and yeah, but a good bit of them they're just farmers, man, like like you do here. They're just trying to provide for their family and make a living life.

Speaker 2: 37:20

Yeah, they're trying to survive they are and, um, it just so happens, they got these, these knuckleheads that want to try and control everything, and they're just in a rock and a hard place.

Speaker 1: 37:29

Yeah, so did you guys get any firefights, any little, any little ticks before it started to pick off? Or were you guys got over there?

Speaker 2: 37:36

we're like man, this is pretty nice um no, it wasn't until after they really um harvested really yes, was it immediate yeah really yeah, so before you know we we would do our patrols.

Speaker 2: 37:51

We'll go talk to you know people in in in the community and, yeah, you know, trying to get a sense of like who's the bad guy here? Like let us help you out. You know the real hearts and minds, stuff like that. And, um, you know, it was just we would patrol and we'd just find a spot and just hang out under the shade for a little while.

Speaker 2: 38:10

You know, and away from so we had, uh, like the eye in the sky, like the camera to kind of watch the patrols and we would duck on their trees and you know, kind of take a break. You know, probably it's 130 degrees or whatever it is out there, plus your gear, and we're like man this, like we kind of take a break. You know, bro, it's 130 degrees or whatever it is out there, plus your gear, and we're like man this, like we're going to take a seat and you know, catch a break, yeah for sure.

Speaker 2: 38:31

So we would do stuff like that. But once they harvested the poppy, you couldn't do that Like it was like no, because you just didn't know where anything was buried. Oh, so you guys didn't hit any I any ids, though we might have found a few, you know, they call them legacy ids just left behind, just left behind from maybe when russia was there. Okay, really old, you know type stuff.

Speaker 2: 38:55

just old ordinance, yeah, and you're like, okay, cool, like we take, pop them out, take them out, either get there was something that the engineer couldn't do himself. We'd call eod to come in and pop it in place. Nothing crazy. But after the harvest of the poppy there was an increase in ID hits and fines and the tree lines were just a bad place to be Right away.

Speaker 1: 39:19

Huh yeah. So they're just waiting. They're just building everything, getting everything ready for as soon as the harvest season goes.

Speaker 2: 39:27

It's full-on war for them yeah, it is, and um, yeah, I mean I don't even know. You know, like I said beforehand, you know we we'd go, we talk to the people. You know we do what we can just chilling having fun.

Speaker 2: 39:39

I don't really remember a whole lot of firefights prior yeah um, I might have had one or two people do pop shots from like a tree line. It's like duck away but nothing engaging. Yeah, um, but once they harsed the poppy, it was like the wild west and it started in june. So june 9th, one a squad went out and one of my, one of our. We lost marine and Marine and a bunch of casualties. So that was the 9th. Got them out of there, you know, did what we had to do Go back, get the gear and, you know, make sure there wasn't anything else that we had left behind.

Speaker 2: 40:14

And all that stuff after you do, you know, get hit with something like that. And then the 12th so the way the camera was that we had in our patrol base there was a blind spot on the backside of our compound where we would really like exit. We'd cross an engineer bridge over a canal but it was big, thick trees that covered this bridge we really had no eyes on, even from kind of like from post. We had a post right there too, but even from post it was a little hard to kind of keep eyes on. They had littered the back side of this bridge with ieds so they know your guys's blind spots?

Speaker 2: 40:52

yeah, they do. And so on the 12th a squad went out and the moment they crossed over this engineer bridge, hitting ieds and my squad it came in from a night OP, so we were already kitted up. So we went out as a QRF, or quick reaction force, to help and assess and, um, I mean, we lost a marine. We we kept them stable until he got on the bird and then then we lost him. But a lot of casualties, like a machine gunner went down, um, a couple squad leaders, our platoon sergeant ended up going down rco was there, you know, he went down. Um, our engineers went down. Uh, it was like this big mass cast type of deal and you guys were the qrf for it.

Speaker 1: 41:37

What was that like rolling up on that, I mean? How old are you at? This point 19 20 years old, so you're a 19 year old kid, yeah, and then, and it's just I mean then it goes from a flip of a switch to full-on war yeah and now you're dealing with a mass cas. What's, what's that like?

Speaker 2: 41:53

dealing with that as being a child um, I mean, at the time it's hard to to really process. You know, adrenaline's going for sure like that. So so I remember, because again I was running points. So I'm in front and I had to cross this engineer bridge and these Marines are just littered on the ground, just blown to pieces, looking like taco meat, like just terrible scene and I can't stop.

Speaker 2: 42:20

I got to keep going and set up security. So it feels like I'm saying kind of like fuck you Not really, but it's like I can't stop to help you, even though I want to. I got to go and set up security and then set up a perimeter, and so that was kind of a shitty feeling.

Speaker 1: 42:35

So you're running by dudes that are dying? Yeah Well, we only lost one a.

Speaker 2: 42:39

KAA in that incident and it was one of our engineers All instant and it was one of our engineers all of the other marines that they got hit.

Speaker 2: 42:47

Um, they were just wounded in action. Many of them didn't return to the battlefield, they stayed side, um, but it was just. It was just a terrible feeling because, yeah, obviously you want to stop and help your marines, but you got to go and set up security and things like that and search for secondary s and you know and all that stuff. So, and um, there was a guy on a, on a motorbike, and he started just cruising but I'm just flying by and we're yelling him to stop and he had like these little jugs on the side of his little bike. We're yelling to stop and he wasn't stopping. And um, we got the orders like light him up, and we just tore this guy up and at when the first round hit him, he tried to stop and he was like it was too late, there's nothing you can do. Now he's, he looked like swiss cheese oh shit, yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:33

Well, you're sitting there with a mass casualty and this dude comes rolling up on a bike yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:37

So there was, you know, three, four of us that just stood up in tournaments of swiss cheese.

Speaker 1: 43:40

Yeah and um is that the first guy that you engaged?

Speaker 2: 43:48

cheese, yeah, and um, is that the first guy that you engaged? Um, that I could see? Yes, okay. Um, a lot of the other ones were kind of pop shots from like behind trees. Um, they took some pop shots at our patrol base. Um, and me and my roommate we ran on top of one of the buildings and we're just because he, he had the uh, he's a designated marksman, okay, so he had like the souped up like in four with the long scope, so we were just kind of scanning the fields and things like that. But the first guy that I could see and visually actually engage yeah, what was that like, it is what it is.

Speaker 2: 44:21

I mean, I think at the time, because you're kind of angry, right, you just walk by our buddies, just, you know, scattered and hurt, and so I think you're more rage-filled than anything, so you didn't really bother it. But because it wasn't just one person shooting, it's hard to say who hit him, who really did it. So I get it. Some people have a hard time justifying, like they have to smoke somebody because it's hard to take a life. I don't care what it is, who you are, you can say, oh, I don't care, you care. But having three or four people shoot at this target, it's hard to say, okay, who really did it.

Speaker 1: 44:56

Makes it a little easier. Yeah, a little easier to digest.

Speaker 2: 45:01

So we got that cleared up, we got the casualties on the bird and flew out and things like that, and so that was the 12th and then on the 15th was when I got hit damn.

Speaker 1: 45:12

So you guys did 9th, 12th, 15th, just like that.

Speaker 2: 45:15

Yeah, so we went from being able to run missions and patrol and things like that and that patrol base to they had a way for reinforcements.

Speaker 1: 45:23

In that amount in a week's span. Yeah, so you guys were combat ineffective, essentially within five, six days.

Speaker 2: 45:32

Yeah, they got their reinforcement fairly quickly to my understanding. But yeah, for a hot second. They were essentially combat ineffective.

Speaker 1: 45:41

No shit.

Speaker 2: 45:43

So I think like the the first incident like five or six people or something. It's a lot. The the one on the 12th was like 10 or 12 people. The one, the 15th, was like another eight people or something like that was your day yeah, like it was. It was like boom, boom, boom and it was just a lot of people. So so you're talking 30, 40 dudes like that, and we're just in a platoon-sized patrol base.

Speaker 1: 46:10

So you guys went from chilling taking breaks on patrols. Yeah. They harvested the poppy and you're almost 40 dudes down within less than a week. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's pretty impressive on the afghani part yeah, if you think about it. I mean to be able to take out a platoon that quick yes, so it was.

Speaker 2: 46:34

It was a lot of people really fast. Um, I got a picture on my phone I have to show you, so it's deep in my phone, the way I pull up now on the podcast.

Speaker 1: 46:41

But you send it to me, we'll put it.

Speaker 2: 46:43

We'll overlay it on the video yeah, one of one of the guys ended up getting like a shadow box made of um, like all of our casualties, like our wounded and our kias and it's a lot of people in there, and he just kind of had it like framed up. Um, I'll find it, I'll send it to you. But yeah, it's like 25 to 40 people were just immediate, immediate, that was it, and they just got a bunch of like reinforcements and some of the reinforcements of engineers, like they got hit too.

Speaker 1: 47:09

So these aren't even guys from your platoon or battalion. I mean, I guess they're your battalion, but the reinforcements? Do you know these guys? Do you do workups with them, or are these just combat replacements, combat replacements.

Speaker 2: 47:20

So now these combat replacements are jumping in with you guys, yeah, and you're trying to get them spun up on the fly right, I wasn't there right because I, I was, I was, I was on the 15th, so I was on that like that last bit of that that week from hell, yep um oh, so they all came after you, okay yeah, um, but yeah, my guys had to, you know, take on roles that they normally wouldn't take on and then try and spin up these guys.

Speaker 2: 47:42

and yeah, a lot of the Marines were getting battlefield promotions because we needed NCOs. That bad huh, yeah. So a few of the guys were like yo, you're picking up corporal because we need a corporal to be a team leader, you're picking up sergeant because we need a squad leader, and people were just getting battlefield promotions because they needed the NCOs.

Speaker 1: 48:00

Holy shit. Yeah, it's pretty serious if you're doing that.

Speaker 2: 48:04

Yeah, and it's a real kick in the nuts as far as morale goes, 100%, especially when on the 12th, I mean we lost. We really didn't care for our CO. He was a piece of shit, but you know, he got hit. He ended up losing a leg.

Speaker 1: 48:18

There's always a couple of them at the platoon, where you're like. You know life's going to be better off. I mean it sounds horrible, but anybody that's had one of those in your platoon.

Speaker 2: 48:26

Our first sergeant was another guy. That was like we're the guy, we're better off without. Yeah, but Our platoon sergeant ended up getting hurt and ended up going stateside. A lot of our squad leaders, a lot of people that had some experience a good portion of them were getting injured and hurt and getting sent stateside.

Speaker 1: 48:43

So you have? No, we had a few. Okay.

Speaker 2: 48:47

We had a few guys there that still had experience, that were kind of trying to help lead and do the rattle up and things like that, but a good bit of them were getting sent stateside because we're just getting fucking smoked out there, oh shit it's all ieds at this point.

Speaker 2: 49:00

Yeah, um, I think one marine from a different platoon was shot, killed, okay, but a good majority of um the stuff was ieds, damn, which are so scary. Yeah, because they lay these ieds you, you get hit, a good portion of your men are down and then they come and they ambush you on the back end. So not only are you having to worry about life-saving measures for your Marines being turned, kits on and the voodoo that our corpsmen do, now we're getting engaged with small arms fire and AKs and rockets and this and that. So your security is having to fight that off and they're trying to shoot the birds down and it becomes like a big, like fiasco at that point. Oh, for sure.

Speaker 2: 49:45

It's not just getting blown up and just stitching you guys up and sending you home, like they do that, and then they come, and then they try and you know, whack you the other way too.

Speaker 1: 49:52

And then now you're worried about your golden hour.

Speaker 2: 49:54

Right, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 49:55

Because once you get hit, you got the golden hour starts and then you're dealing with a firefight now and then, if you're obviously getting engaged, the birds usually aren't going to land Right. So then you're trying to clear that and then obviously you know you got the golden hour to get them on the bird and to a hospital to save some lives, and then you're dealing with all the bullshit on the back end.

Speaker 2: 50:24

Yeah, some lives, and then you're dealing with all the bullshit on the back end. Yeah, that's a rough go around, yeah, and it was just. It's just, I wouldn't say a constant thing, because after the, after the 15th, I I wouldn't say it died down, but they didn't really get into a whole lot of mass casas after that. After that point, um, they had a few other ones kind of later on, um, and like one ka towards the end of our deployment, okay, um, but that week was just a week of just mass casualties hell week, yeah.

Speaker 1: 50:45

So the morning of the 15th, the morning that changed your life forever, how did it start?

Speaker 2: 50:50

um, I mean a lot of, a lot of my memory from deployment and the day is like a little fuzzy, yeah. So a good bit of it is kind of what I got from my guys afterwards. But I do remember, like the night before we got a sat phone, like maybe the second or third time maybe we were able to get a sat phone so everybody can call home.

Speaker 1: 51:16

Which is the greatest thing on their greatest thing ever. It's getting like a call home.

Speaker 2: 51:20

It's a call home. And it's one of those things where the sat phone, like you know it's coming, because I mean at least our platoon sergeant, our platoon commander, were pretty squared away. Um, great guys are like, hey, like we just got word, like sat phones making its way down from the pbs, you know it's coming. And then he gets held up for whatever at the main patrol base because you know so and so higher in the chain of command wants to, you know, keep it in his bedroom and give it to his buddy and let their, his boys use it.

Speaker 2: 51:50

Yeah, so it was one of those things, but we ended up getting it. I remember calling home and I had called my wife. She was like sleeping and I was like, hey, you know, so the chat is super quick. She didn't have a whole lot of time on the phone but I was like, hey, I just want to call you, like I'm cool, you know, blah, blah, blah, like two minutes. I was like cool, let her go.

Speaker 2: 52:19

And I called my mom because she's she's one of those like nervous Nellie's like just worries about everything. At the time my dad I didn't have like the strongest relationships. I didn't really like care to call yeah there, and I knew it was like in the middle of night, I don't want to bug him, he's a busy guy. So I call my mom, she picks up and so we're chat for a few minutes and it's like, oh, how's it going? And you know it's like, oh, you know it's great. You know like nothing's going on. You know, um, as as we're, you know, trying to reel from the past to mask has his right.

Speaker 2: 52:46

So yeah very opsec and, um, it's what you can say. And I was like, look, I gotta go and do I gotta go do this mission. We're gonna go and talk to this informant. I just kind of got like this uneasy feeling about it, just kind of get like that sick sense where you're just like I don't know, I feel like something gonna go sideways. And um, I kind of told her and I was like something's just something's not sitting right, but you know it's, it's just uh, just another day. You know it kind of we've done these patrols a million times, like you always get those butterflies right before a mission, right before you step out. I was like it's just that.

Speaker 1: 53:24

But you had a weird feeling about this one.

Speaker 2: 53:26

Yeah, and probably it had to do because of the 9th and the 12th. You know we're just like. I don't know, you know, but I was like it'll be cool. We had this happen for a few days. I was like I'll call you tomorrow. You know, don't worry about it. Like when I get home and when we get back from patrol I'll give you a call and let you know that everything's cool, okay, cool, and I hang up and it sure as enough the next day.

Speaker 1: 53:53

So your mom and girlfriend at the time, now wife, are all like oh, he's great, Everything's fine Rest assured. G's doing just fine. Nothing's happening over there. Little do they know.

Speaker 2: 54:08

Yeah, so it was just a weird feeling, because we had two engineers for our platoon and one passed away and one got injured, okay and so we had one of our marines um, it's a great guy, he's a firefighter now.

Speaker 1: 54:27

great, dude, um, take the place of the engineer and now are your engineers mind sweeping with the metal detectors okay, yes, so that's their main role. They're're out in front just sweeping roads and yards and everything else Right, and it's more.

Speaker 2: 54:41

you know pranks. Whatever gods your pranks half the time those metal detectors don't work anyway For sure. So it's really their eyes and their experience that's really saving you through these patrols.

Speaker 1: 54:53

And now you have a Marine with zero experience out there doing it.

Speaker 2: 54:55

Yeah, they sort of gave us like a training on it prior to the deployment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it wasn't our main.

Speaker 2: 55:05

MOS. So we kind of got like the gist of it, but we're not nowhere near proficient with it. But we had to spin up a Marine to do it and be like yo, you drew the short stick, like this, is you Semper Gumby? So, and and he took it in stride. You know, he didn't, he didn't fight it and whatnot, and um, it was our first, our first mission without an engineer. So it's like man, this is, this is gonna be weird. Well, no, I take that back. Uh, it's like three later. So he had a few days to kind of knock the dust off and kind of get acquainted with it, but still really fresh, still really weird and I don't know, maybe it was a little bit of that. That kind of made me feel a little uneasy. But yeah, I mean that was all she wrote the next day, on the 15th, is pull my number and let's walk us through that.

Speaker 1: 55:55

How was that?

Speaker 2: 55:55

what you can recall and what you've been told yes, so I remember we had to step out and go talk to an informant um in the village. So I guess, along the way I've been told I didn't, I don't remember but along the way to make contact with informant um, we had got engaged. So we did that for a bit. I don't know how long they broke off and left or whatever, and so we continued our mission to go talk to this informant. We did that and then I want to say, on our way back again, we got engaged Again. I don't remember. We got engaged for a bit. Again they broke off.

Speaker 2: 56:37

We kept going where we were going and then, from what I remember, we're coming up to these tree lines and they're at an L shape, okay, and we're just like screwed. To the right is these rubble buildings and so we're just like they engaged us. They engaged us and they funneled us into this area. Essentially, oh, they were setting you guys up. Yeah, it makes sense now, but we didn't catch it. I didn't catch it. Then they hide a lot of the IEDs in rubble buildings and in tree lines near these canals.

Speaker 1: 57:10

And those are your only two options.

Speaker 2: 57:11

Those are my two options and the only other option would be to turn around and backtrack. But they also backlay, so they'll watch you patrol and then they'll just go behind you and backlay IEDs. So we never go backwards, we're always going to push forward. I remember getting on the radio and I was like yo, like this just doesn't, something's off, but we're screwed, like we can't go left, we can't go right, we've got to continue through these tree lines and hope for the best. And I was like we need to turn around, think something else, you know, like we've got to figure this out. And they're like no, you need to push through, you need to push through. And we ended up getting in an argument and I was like look, if I get fucking blown up, it's your fault. And clicked off the radio, not like clicked it off, but I put it back and a few more steps I got.

Speaker 2: 58:00

I stepped on an id.

Speaker 1: 58:00

No, yeah, and so who were you on the radio with?

Speaker 2: 58:03

it was the individual who was taking over the squad at the time. Okay, because our squad leader got hurt okay and so that's what it was the. The purpose of the. The mission was to, yes, go talk to the informant, but also show the NCO who was going to take over the squad, the AO. And he's the one that told you to keep pushing. No, it was the. So we lost our sergeant. It was the corporal. He was in charge of the squad at the time.

Speaker 2: 58:31

We were showing another sergeant, the AO, so he could take over, got it. So it was a corporal that was. Like you know, if I get hit it's gonna be your fault, like I. Just you know, and I hung up and, sure enough, um stepped on id so, oh shit, yeah, do you remember the blast, or were you out a?

Speaker 2: 58:48

little bit. I remember stepping on it, dust going in my face and like slamming on the ground and that was it. Like I don't. I don't remember being in any pain. I don't remember getting pulled out of the canal it blew you into a canal yeah what was?

Speaker 1: 59:05

what was? Because you said there was another large group of guys that they all get hit in the same, the same area. What all went down? And once you got hit, so you initiated it.

Speaker 2: 59:13

Yeah, so I was. So I was the first one. The marine who was in front of me with the metal detector kind of got thrown forward. Marines broke from the squad to drag me out of the canal and as they were pulling me up on this embankment doing their assessments, marines are coming up sweeping for secondaries and trying to set security and they're hitting IEDs. So the sergeant that was supposed to take over our squad ended up stepping on an IED and lost his legs.

Speaker 2: 59:39

My saw gunner took a trap metal to the face. I remember him sitting next to me. His eye was closed. We thought I lost his eye. You know he was bleeding in his face.

Speaker 2: 59:47

The Marine who was in front of me was I remember him at one point kind of kneeling next to me or over me and he had a boot lace stuck in his face. So they had to go in and surgically remove it. After they got him back, you know, to the base, surgically removed his boot lace. It was like stuck in his face. Oh shit, yeah, my corpsman. I want to say his eardrum got like blown out. I remember him bleeding from the ears when he's like working on me. So you're coherent at this point while they're working on you, like you come to. Yeah, okay, um, I remember screaming initially, but only because I didn't know where I was, and so it was more or less like I am here, like you can like come find me, because I didn't know where I was. It wasn't necessarily a scream out of pain, as much as it was. I don't know where I'm at at this moment.

Speaker 1: 1:00:34

How, how far did you fly to throw you into the canal? Were you right on the edge of the canal?

Speaker 2: 1:00:41

Yeah, I was right on the edge of it.

Speaker 1: 1:00:42

So it didn't throw me too far.

Speaker 2: 1:00:44

I forget how high it sent me in the air, but from my understanding, the water broke the fall and saved my life. Initially, okay, getting blown up, so they drug me out, set me up on this embankment yeah, just everything's going off. And then they're getting ambushed on top of that.

Speaker 1: 1:01:00

And so you're laying there, yeah, and you're just hearing ieds going off. Then the small arms fire takes off and you're just I mean, you're just praying to god. Do you know at this point how bad your injuries are?

Speaker 2: 1:01:13

no, because I couldn't even sit up. Okay, um, I couldn't even sit up and like, look at my legs, I didn't even couldn't even roll over. Look at my arm, I didn't even know what I looked like. I just, you know, I like, especially when you're young and you go into an environment like that, dying isn't an issue, like you kind of already know in the back of your mind, like there's a good chance. I'm not making it out of here. So when it happened, it wasn't like I'm begging to stay alive, I'm not why me, you know, like I already made my peace with that before stepping so you're accepting that you're gonna die yeah, because I mean, good men are gonna die, there's nothing you can do about it.

Speaker 2: 1:01:53

And so I was just like this is it? You know there's no fighting it. You know what? He? What are you going to do for me If I'm dying? I'm dying, no matter how many tourniquets you put on me or like you know.

Speaker 1: 1:02:06

Are they putting tourniquets on you at this point?

Speaker 2: 1:02:08

Yeah, tourniquets Do you?

Speaker 1: 1:02:08

remember feeling them. No Really.

Speaker 2: 1:02:10

No, yeah, my body was like numb I tell you, you know what's best.

Speaker 2: 1:02:13

My left lung collapsed. Both my legs are gone. My arm is looking like taco meat. I got tattoos now, but I was missing part of my forearm and, like my bicep and my doc is you know, doing his voodoo on top of me. And I remember looking over to my saw gunner because he's sitting up and he's just not in a good place. But I'm like, hey, like this, is it? You not in a good, not in a good place? But I'm like, hey, like this, is it? You know? Like tell everybody stateside, like it was been a fun ride and I rolled over and what I thought was going to sleep was dying. I remember being like really just cold, but like at peace, and I was like cool. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:02:51

And I just rolled over and what I thought was like just going to sleep was I was dying.

Speaker 1: 1:02:55

That's what it felt like yeah, just going to sleep was. I was dying. That's what it felt like. Yeah, so you think in your mind you're going to sleep, but technically you're dying at this point.

Speaker 2: 1:03:03

Yeah, so that's what it feels like. Yeah, you were pretty peaceful.

Speaker 2: 1:03:06

Yeah, you just feel like you're just not like tired, but you're just like you can't keep your eyes open and you're just like I just need to shut my eyes for a little bit, kind of like thought, and just take a quick little cat nap, but you're dying. That's scary, yeah. And so I remember doing that. And then I came to I don't know what my dog did probably cinched down the fucking tourniquets maybe but I remember popping my eyes back open. They got me on the stretcher or like the litter to the bird, because we called in the Brits. So the US wanted the X to be, you know, kind of calm, but the Brits like, if you're, they'll come in hot.

Speaker 1: 1:03:48

The Brits are the baddest motherfuckers on the planet when it comes to pilots.

Speaker 2: 1:03:52

Yeah, so they were called Tricky that was their call sign at the time. Over the radio was Tricky and so we called in Tricky and they came in and they loaded us up on the bird and they got out of there. I mean, I don't even think the fucking skids touched the ground, they just hovered, they tossed us in there and they took off.

Speaker 1: 1:04:09

Really, how many did they toss in at once? I don't know.

Speaker 2: 1:04:19

I kind of of passed out before I got to the bird um and then that was it, and then I woke up in padezda like weeks later.

Speaker 1: 1:04:22

So what was the route? Knowing now, obviously after waking up, where did they take you first?

Speaker 2: 1:04:26

so they ended up taking me to. I think it was bastion, I think it's the field hospital in afghanistan. I flatlined again on the bird, apparently, and they got me to bastion. Flatlined again on the bird, apparently, and they got me to Bastion, flatlined again. Somewhere there ended up getting put into like a drug-induced coma. But I was in Bastion. I don't know if that happened in Bastion, it happened in Germany. But at some point I got put into a drug-induced coma. But they were trying to get me to Germany but I got held up for a few days because of sandstorms. They couldn't get any of the birds out, oh God. So once that cleared they got me over to Germany and I was only there for like 18 hours and by this point my folks had got the Red Cross message. My brother who was deployed at the time got a Red Cross message and they're trying to figure out how to get to Germany and they're like don't even bother, meet him in bethesda so you can say goodbye, chances are he's not making the flight to bethesda.

Speaker 1: 1:05:20

So they're writing you off. I mean, the these docs already know your fate.

Speaker 2: 1:05:24

Yeah, I, I flatlined four times damn, yeah, and so they're like he's, he's not going to make it. You know, either he's going to, we're going to lose him on the way to bethesda. You're going to lose him right when he gets to bethesda. So just make your preparations when you go there, like you're saying goodbye, essentially.

Speaker 1: 1:05:41

I couldn't even imagine being a parent getting that call oh yeah, I mean now as a parent.

Speaker 2: 1:05:45

Oh no, that that's the worst thing. At the time I had no kids and yeah, again, I went in. You know it's a possibility, so I'm, I'm at peace with it. Um, but I can only imagine now being a parent now like dude, absolutely not. Yeah, so I get to Bethesda and then I just wake up a few weeks later that was June 15th, so I would say by mid-July probably I woke up in Bethesda.

Speaker 1: 1:06:15

You just wake up out of a coma.

Speaker 2: 1:06:17

Yeah, and so I remember taking the breathing tube out and I couldn't talk my throat was all like scratching.

Speaker 1: 1:06:23

How is that pulling a breathing tube out?

Speaker 2: 1:06:25

it's like it's like taking sandpaper and just taking it out, like it was just scratching your throat and it's very raspy, like like if you go and you run five miles in the desert with your mouth open and then just try and swallow your saliva like I even tried to drink water, that's what it would feel like really just dry, just scratchy, just yeah oh, that's your first.

Speaker 1: 1:06:52

That's your first yeah thing coming to after getting blown up?

Speaker 2: 1:06:56

yeah, okay and Okay, and so I was like, and I didn't know where I was at first. You know, I kind of woke up and you know, you got the whiteboard in the hospital and it's like they got the date up there and who your nurse is, and I was just kind of like what is this?

Speaker 1: 1:07:10

Was there anybody in the room with you, or did you wake up by yourself?

Speaker 2: 1:07:13

Uh, I don't recall. I don't recall if my brother was there or if my mom was there, I don't recall, but I was just like what is this place? I didn't even know, I was in a hospital.

Speaker 1: 1:07:25

It was just odd. Are you starting to put the pieces together now?

Speaker 2: 1:07:28

Yeah, I'm starting to see the whiteboard. I'm like, okay, the bed, the chair, the door, I'm kind of moving my eyes I can barely move. My arms are like in these foam-like things and I'm just like doing one of these. But I kind of put the pieces together where I'm like, okay, like I'm alive, I'm in a hospital, and it's starting to kind of click. But then it's like, well, if I'm in a hospital, how fucked up am I? You know yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:07:53

You know, maybe a couple days later, when I was able to sort of like sit up, I like walked my eyes down and I just saw the blanket just go flat. Really yeah, and I lost. It Cried like a baby, rightfully, yeah, I feel like that's a natural reaction? Yeah, because then it's like man, what's life going to be like now, you know, and I'm only 19. And I'm just like.

Speaker 1: 1:08:17

So, like now, you know, and I'm only 19 and I'm just like so, you're a 19 year old kid just waking up in a hospital, yeah, and you see that there's no blanket past your knees, that right much, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:08:23

And I I cried like a baby, you know they were like you know, just get it out. You know it. Like you said, it's natural to feel that way, but once you get done, we need to figure out what the next steps are. So let's have your moment, but be prepared to to keep going forward. Essentially was the advice I had gotten no shit, and so I'd always that how I always like looked at it, like through my recovery, was like I still got to push on, like I can't just just be here. You know, 19, I just more to life than just being here in the hospital bed. You haven't even started life yet. Yeah, exactly, still a teenager, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:09:02

That's a pretty heavy thing.

Speaker 2: 1:09:04

Yeah, it was For a 19-year-old kid and still you're really not grasping it because you still don't really understand the gravity of what just happened and what life's going to look like. Now. For sure you know, like you said, you're still a kid, you're still a teenager, and now your whole life is completely changed Like 180. In the blink of an eye.

Speaker 1: 1:09:27

Blink of an eye. Yeah, that's God, man, I couldn't even. I couldn't fathom just being a 19-year-old teenager and waking up in a hospital and my legs are missing and you've got an arm that's mangled at this point. You still had kind of a hand right. Yeah, I had a pinky left. I remember seeing the pictures. You don't know really what's left on your hand, or do you know?

Speaker 2: 1:09:47

it's pretty bad um, I know it the way they had it wrapped up. I couldn't see anything of my hand aside from like a pinky, so I didn't know. I couldn't see anything of my hand aside from like a pinky, so I didn't know. Is the hand just mangled and it's just wrapped for whatever reason? So I don't lose my mind. You know, or am I missing? Like I had no idea what the hand looked like and I couldn't move this arm because it's got this big foam thing and I had pins in the hand so I couldn't move it, because that one got pretty mangled too.

Speaker 2: 1:10:14

Yeah, so I'm missing part of my palm. On top skin grafts. I had pins in my hands, I couldn't move it. Missing part of my forearm. I had a skin graft here, so this one's just all just out there, but I can visually see I still got a hand and an arm and whatever.

Speaker 1: 1:10:43

It wasn't until a little later, not too much later, but it wasn't until a little later that you know they let me know. Like no, it's. You just got a pinky there, like that's it, and um, so this blast went straight up your body.

Speaker 2: 1:10:47

Yeah, and that's what lifted you into the canal? And yeah, it blew. Blew my, my weapon to pieces, my gear to pieces, blew me to pieces. I mean, it just just blew everything me to pieces.

Speaker 1: 1:10:58

I mean, it just blew everything to pieces. How long was?

Speaker 2: 1:11:00

it before you got to look at your hand, not too long.

Speaker 1: 1:11:04

What was that like looking at this hamburger mitt.

Speaker 2: 1:11:07

Yeah, it was part of me was like, why Like, why keep it Like, this thing is hideous.

Speaker 1: 1:11:14

Really so you had a pinky and that was it.

Speaker 2: 1:11:18

All this is gone.

Speaker 2: 1:11:19

Yeah, so the blast took my thumb, my index finger, and it mangled my middle finger ring finger we mean by mangled, it was just there, was hanging there kind of there, like the bone wasn't together, okay, the tendons were, maybe were barely together, but it was basically hanging on by skin and half my palm was there, like gone.

Speaker 2: 1:11:37

So what was left was basically half my palm, like if you took like a marker or pen, and he went at an angle from like the webbing between your middle and ring finger, okay, when diagonal to the other side of your wrist. That was what was left of my palm. Oh yeah, like part of, uh, like my forearm was missing. So they ended up taking muscle and skin from my back and they used it to kind of forge back the rest of my arm and my palm and so it looked like this ugly granny flap type of thing and I had no motion in it and my pinky was bent because I lost motion in there. And it was just my pinky was bent because I lost motion in there. It was just this hideous-looking thing.

Speaker 1: 1:12:20

So you were telling them to take it.

Speaker 2: 1:12:22

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:12:25

Were they fighting you on this? Did they want you to keep whatever you could, or were they agreeing with you? It was a pretty easy process.

Speaker 2: 1:12:33

Initially, I want to say my parents might have had like some pushback on it, I believe, uh, because they were like you know you could use it to push doors open or you can use it for for whatever there was, just like saying don't make any rushed judgments to just start hacking away at your body because you know any little bit can help. And I could see where the thought was in that you know like you could use it for this or that or whatever it was, but I literally had no use out of it. But it wasn't until months later that I ended up having that amputated.

Speaker 1: 1:13:03

Okay, what's that like? I mean you just go to see you have obviously you want it gone, but you go to they put you under and you wake up and then you're down. So I mean just above the elbow.

Speaker 2: 1:13:15

Yeah, it was. I was ready for it to be gone.

Speaker 1: 1:13:17

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:13:18

So I was like, you know, just take it. Yeah, because at the time I had like bone spurts and things like that to take care of as well and my thought was, if I can just get it taken off, then I can get a regular prosthetic. Before that it was like this Michael Jackson type of glove just fit over it and it was just this hideous looking thing and I was like, just take it, I get like a normal arm. Yeah, be like a normal looking person. Um, so I ended up having them amputated and, um, it was not.

Speaker 2: 1:13:49

It's a hard decision to be like, yeah, I take, just hack away. You know pieces of my body for sure. But at the same time it was an easy choice to make because I had no use out of it. So, waking up and seeing it was all like swollen. It looked like a little billy club that I just okay, you know. Um, but it was fine. It took a long time for to do like nerve, um, desensitization, because it was like really sensitive, uh, oh, you bumped it or touched it or anything.

Speaker 1: 1:14:16

What did it feel? It was it like shocking pain that went through you?

Speaker 2: 1:14:18

yeah, just like if you would have taken a hammer and like hit your finger oh you're feeling everything yeah, because. So, because all your tendons and things are and your nerves are still there, uh-huh, you know, and for the last 19 years it was connected to a hand, so it's still trying to fire off and figure where that part is, okay, so it took a little while to get desensitized how do they desensitize the nerves?

Speaker 2: 1:14:41

like a, you like a box of legos and you just roll it around, or literally swear to god, or you get like rocks or like little pea, gravel, little anything that's like kind of jagged or it's got you know some texture to it. You just put it in there and you just kind of roll it around and just after a while your body just kind of gets used to used to it and it desensitizes that's modern science.

Speaker 1: 1:15:04

Is sticking your hand in a box of legos to desensitize the nerves in your, in your ant or yeah tip now nub, whatever you're gonna call it. That's how they do it. It's not like some medicine in a shot that they're putting in there, or anything like that.

Speaker 2: 1:15:17

That's what I had. That's how they do it.

Speaker 1: 1:15:18

It's not like some medicine in a shot that they're putting in there or anything like that.

Speaker 2: 1:15:20

No, that's what I had.

Speaker 1: 1:15:20

That's hilarious, yeah so how long does that last? I mean, how long does it take to uh?

Speaker 2: 1:15:24

I mean everybody's different, okay, it just depends. Um, I don't, I don't think it took that long, okay, but it was a funny, you know kind of interesting process. I mean, you know, you think, like occupational therapists and physical physical therapists, you know most people think, think, oh, it's this way, it's that way, it's by the book, it's this, and that A lot of those men and women are thinking on the fly and are pretty ingenious on, like, the ways they can get their patients to recover and get back to mobility and things like that. Oh shit, interesting yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:15:51

So, knowing now and gone years of not having the rest of your hand, do you think you made the right decision? Oh, absolutely. Do you think you would have? Oh, absolutely no questions.

Speaker 2: 1:16:03

No, I was out there looking like Frankenstein. There's no way my wife was a saint. She was like yeah, I'd marry you All right. There we go, yeah, no, definitely the right decision, because now I can have a prosthetic and, yeah, I got a, an arm I used to like work out. I got a prosthetic I can use to pick things up that looks like a hand, and I get a lot more options to do things with the regular process than I did with just kind of a slide over glove.

Speaker 1: 1:16:32

Oh, okay, okay, I could see that. Why'd they take so far down? Was that was because you were missing, missing that much of your form.

Speaker 2: 1:16:39

Yeah, so basically, from here up to my palm was like what they had to recreate, okay, and that's what they took from my back, that muscle and that skin, to recreate it. So, if you think, from here to here was like just like the underside of your arm. Yeah, like just a gelatin granny flap type looking thing. Yeah, that's what it looked like. So if you just imagine taking that chunk of skin and meat and just slapping it right there, that's what that looked like really. Yeah, so it was just this hideous looking deal oh, I bet yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:17:11

So as far as your legs, I mean, you're learning at first. Are you? Were you left or right-handed? Right-handed? So you have to learn all that over again.

Speaker 2: 1:17:20

Yeah, and not only that, I shattered my palm and so I had to get mobility back in my hand first, prior to learning to ride, and not that I had elegant handwriting or had perfect handwriting before, but now my handwriting is just absolutely terrible. And they had to put these big foam, you know, like the pool noodles, yeah, so like stuff like that, like on the ends of pins and pencils for me to grab because I didn't have the dexterity and the movement in my hand really in the beginning, all I had was that, and so you're as, yeah, and so I'm learning to write like that.

Speaker 2: 1:17:56

Um, there's a meme of a kid and he's like writing, he's like scribbling down. You know, that's what it looked like. I'm like trying to hold it, I'm like trying to write. Is it pretty frustrating? Yeah, you know, in the beginning. Yeah, because I think teenagers have no patience for anything For sure by this point. You know, because I think teenagers have no patience for anything For sure by this point. You know, mentally and emotionally it was not in a great place, just very angry, not at the situation itself, necessarily, but angry like now I'm going to miss out on, like so much in life, because at night I'm not even legally able to drink yet and I'm disabled, and so just looking at it like long term in the beginning did not look bright for me. Yeah, and so I was. I was angry a lot of times. I didn't have the patience for a lot of stuff, especially going through rehab, like walking and stuff like that what was that so being?

Speaker 1: 1:18:52

uh, I don't want to say. You're probably hating the world, but it probably felt like you were hating the world at this point. What's it like trying to get back on prosthetics for the first time and learning how to walk all over again?

Speaker 2: 1:19:06

um, being young really worked in my favor. Okay, regard, okay, because I had all the energy to get up and do things. Um, it was. It was just frustrating because it's a slow process, right, they first, you know, you cast it and you get you to prosthetics. And then they get you to stand up and you that that's all you do for the day or week or whatever it is is you just stand and you're working on your balance, you know, and then the the next week it's, you know you might take a couple steps, but then you know you're working on your balance. It's a long process.

Speaker 2: 1:19:39

I think in that regard it was a little frustrating, but it was cool to me because every step I was taking was I'm getting my independence back, just that much more. I looked at it that way and it wasn't as frustrating. The only thing I got frustrated with was going up and down stairs. One of my prosthetics has the ability to um, has like a step mode, so it, depending on how I move the leg when I'm walking, I can make it. You know, step up, okay, um, and could never grasp, and I could never grasp the concept of doing that up and down the stairs. And my PT physical therapist guy. That's all he wanted to do. He wanted to work on it right Like.

Speaker 2: 1:20:28

Repetition makes muscle memory and you can get it and this and that, and I just had the patience for it. So him and I would just go at it all the time and I was like I'm not doing this, you know. And um, he got to the point where he just stopped you know, stop doing that, because I just I would refuse. He's like you're gonna go walk stairs? Well, go, have fun, I'll be here when you get back, yeah, you know. And so he, just he, just, he eventually got to the point where he's like it's one of those, I'll take the horse to the water. I can't make the horse drink it kind of thing. I was the horse in that regard, I was just like no, bucking everything. But eventually I got through it. You know, ended up getting those little running legs running for a little bit, but it was a process. I mean, I got through it relatively quickly in the grand scheme of things, what's relatively quickly?

Speaker 1: 1:21:18

Are we talking six months a year, two years, like what's quick to lose? One above one below the knee, how quick were you up and running again?

Speaker 2: 1:21:28

I would say about a year, a little less than a year. Really. Yeah. Okay. And that's including having to go through like another surgery for bone spurts um what are bone spurts? Explain those so bone spurts is where your bone is continuing to grow x amount of length or whatever post the amputation. And I mean regular people get bone spurts too, not just people who are missing things, but basically it's just bone growth, just extra bone growth, and sometimes it can come out jagged, which can be painful, cut through skin and things like that.

Speaker 1: 1:22:04

And that's what yours did. It was pushing through.

Speaker 2: 1:22:06

Yeah, so it pushed through the skin a little bit. It was painful, but not where I couldn't do anything. It was one of those where it could get worse over time, which is why I had it operated, shaved down and things of that sort. But I know some people have just extreme issues with bone spurts. Mine wasn't that severe but I had it shaved down anyway and I haven't had an issue since.

Speaker 1: 1:22:32

That's good, yeah, yeah, because you hear some guys where it starts corkscrewing and they got it coming out sides and all over the place. So after you were, where not Walter Reed, I mean, where did you go for recovery?

Speaker 2: 1:22:47

I went to the CFI in San Antonio, okay, and so that's a part of. It was called BAMC while I was there.

Speaker 1: 1:22:54

Yeah, it was Army.

Speaker 2: 1:22:54

Medical Center.

Speaker 1: 1:22:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:22:56

And I think they changed the name recently, but I'm just going to go with BAMC for the sake of ease, but it's called BAMC and it's a joint military base but Army hospital. So you got Lackland is right down the street, you got Army base, you got a Marine detachment there, navy's there, kind of a joint force type of deal. And so I did my recovery at the Center for the Intrepid, which was I'm sure it's still pretty state of the art, but it was state of the art at the time. I think they built it in 2007, 2008. And I got there in 2011. So it was still a relatively new facility. It was pretty cool. It was a good place to be.

Speaker 1: 1:23:38

So after there that's where they're fitting you for prosthetics Right, you're getting amputated, any other surgeries until you're pretty good to go, and then they send you back to a unit. Or how does it work being blown up or wounded in the military? Then you've gotten through your initial medical process. Then what's the next step for you?

Speaker 2: 1:24:02

Yes. So you have the option to stay in the military, you have the option to get out. Okay, and they're not persuading you one way or the other of which way to go. So it's really up to the individual. I know a guy who's missing both legs and he decided to stay in both legs above the legs, above the knees and last I learned he's still active duty. He might even still be on Pendleton, I think. Okay. But a good majority of the men and women, they just decide to, you know, get out, exit stage left and go about their business. And so they gave me the option. When I was in Bethesda, I think prior to transferring to Texas, they came in and were like, look, what are your plans? I can only assume it's a lot of paperwork to get an injured individual back in into a unit and I was like, look, can I stay in the infantry, you know? And my family's like are you serious right now?

Speaker 1: 1:25:07

so, after everything you went through, you just wanted to stay in.

Speaker 2: 1:25:09

Well, I was drinking the kool-aid. You know, um, and I don't care who you are, military, um, all the infantry, um, dudes, um, you know, they walk around like, oh, I don't want to be a poe, I don't want to do this, and that I want to be the infantry, and, um, they're definitely drinking the kool-aid. You know, the cook is getting paid as much as I am and I'm over here hating life. You know what I mean, um and but, but you know well, as, as a young man, you know, going infantry.

Speaker 2: 1:25:39

You're looking at it like and I don't care who you are, every young man is looking for some type of glory, like they want that moment and that's why they keep getting this influx of infantry got like young infantry dudes in the military, whether it's Army, marine Corps, whatever it is Because you all this testosterone and they want that moment of glory. Not that I was glory chasing, but that's the mindset of a teenager. It's like no, and still drinking the Kool-Aid, I was like I don't want to be a fucking pogue, I want to go back to infantry. That was my only option was, if you go back to the unit, you're not going back to your unit, you're going to admin. We're putting you admin or something else because you physically can't very sticky in a hazmat lot somewhere checking out right.

Speaker 2: 1:26:27

I mean you physically can't, can't hump these, these mountains, you physically can't hold your weapon. You know there's certain things that are required in the infantry realm that you just physically not gonna be able to do. I don't care what you say, and I was like nope, if I can't be infantry, then I've got to get out. And so that's what happened.

Speaker 1: 1:26:43

Do you regret that? Do you think you should have just rolled over?

Speaker 2: 1:26:47

There's times where I was just like man I should have, just because hindsight is always 20-20. For sure, I'm looking at it now like sure I would have loved to have done 20 years, but I don't know if that was the case, if I would have been like, yeah, let me go into this other role where the Marine Corps wants to send me. If I would have liked that role, right, hindsight's 20-20. Absolutely yeah. And so I just said, no, you know, I exit stage left and got the process started to get out of the military.

Speaker 1: 1:27:21

do you, do you get paid when you get blown up? Does the military take care of you, or are they just, like, have a nice life? Um like, is there any compensation for being a triple amputee?

Speaker 2: 1:27:34

Yeah, so if you get injured while you're active duty, I think, depending on the severity of the injury, I'm assuming you get an insurance payment because you're insured. Okay, so I'd gotten that.

Speaker 1: 1:27:50

Is it a nice chunk? I mean, does it make you feel?

Speaker 2: 1:27:52

It's a nice bit.

Speaker 1: 1:27:53

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:27:56

A lot more money than a 19-year-old should have. All right, you know, it's just like when military members like they pass away and actually their families get a big chunk of money. So same deal, a lot smarter than what those families get, rightfully so, but still enough that you're not worrying about your bills at the moment, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:28:15

I've never asked anybody that and I've always been curious if they're just like thanks for your service, lance Corporal Galvan, like there's the door and then now you're just leaving with two legs and not missing an arm left.

Speaker 2: 1:28:27

Yeah, so you get your insurance payment. Okay. Yeah, and a lot of men and women they go and blow it so they have nothing to show for it. And you know A lot of men and women they go and blow it so they have nothing to show for it, and they're in line at the soup kitchen trying to figure life out For sure.

Speaker 1: 1:28:40

I see that that's probably a very typical veteran thing to do, since none of us are set up to help learn finances and investing.

Speaker 2: 1:28:48

No, and I don't know why they don't. You get your little MCI and you're just like, okay, cool, but you're also, even if you do get the opportunity, maybe three out of 40 people are going to take it seriously. Oh for sure. Everybody else is looking at the clock waiting to go, and you know, cruise the strip and you know, get a pizza or something.

Speaker 1: 1:29:13

I get it. I get it. I mean, at least it should be offered. I feel like you know I agree.

Speaker 2: 1:29:20

Whether you're talking to a bunch of you know glue sniffers or not, I think making that resource available to them is better than not offering it all.

Speaker 1: 1:29:29

For sure. And being in an infantry unit, that's probably the absolute last thing that's on any leadership's mind there, right? So now that you're back, you're in the hospital, you're learning how to walk, you're getting discharged from the marine corps what's life looking like? I mean, you're 20 years old at this point. You still you still got a really good chick. So, yeah, your wife now is an absolute saint, and the fact that she was in high school you can put me in jail now yeah, you're past that limit.

Speaker 1: 1:30:07

Yeah, you know that she's stuck by you all these years. That's a pretty incredible yeah, pretty incredible woman, man.

Speaker 2: 1:30:15

She she's a saint. Um, I can't, I would not be here without her and that's and I know that kind of cliche to say, but absolutely, yeah, the truth. Um, you know, through a lot of dark moments and never not once given up on me. Um, you know, she's always taking the approach of you know, I'll give you your space to figure your shit out, but I'm not leaving you like I'm. I'm here when you're ready to talk and discuss whatever you need to talk and discuss about. You can have your space. You can, you know, drink yourself crazy and you know, go and do that drug or that drug or whatever, but when you're ready, I'm here for you.

Speaker 1: 1:30:58

How long did it take for you to be ready? I mean, you had to have gone through some pretty dark times, obviously rightfully so. Being a teenager, your whole life's turned upside down, but you got a good chick by your side. I mean, did it? Take a while before you got in a groove.

Speaker 2: 1:31:15

Not too long. So I had a fight to leave the hospital, to even go back out to California and kind of start life and things like that. But once I got there I was pretty much lost. I didn't know what to do and she was like, just go to school, just get out of the house. You're driving me crazy.

Speaker 2: 1:31:36

Because we had an apartment at the time and I was like, well, I don't know what to study. And she's like, just go. And I was like, well, none of my family's ever been to college and I was like I don't know how to do a college transcript or write for a grant or whatever. She's like I'll help you out. So she helped me write stuff for college, get accepted to college, how to navigate that. I had to do all the navigating stuff on the VA, my like on myself. But it's like a 180 from me in high school where I was just like I didn't mind learning in high school, like I wasn't like a terrible kid, like I had good grades but I was just not your thing, I didn't care. But when I got to college, like, well, I mean, it's kind of cool, like I could, you know, learn whatever I want to learn, kind of thing.

Speaker 1: 1:32:24

Is it weird going to college you know, being a veteran triple amp trying to fit in with these college kids that are probably like all against everything that you just fought for? Did you run into any of that at all?

Speaker 2: 1:32:38

In community college. I did so. I was in the beginning. I was taking class at community college, so I had to take them all to the state college so I could like save my funding from the VA and not waste it all. You know, I was trying to like figure out how I can get the most bang out of my buck for school. Yeah, so I was taking all my like general ed classes at the community college. That way they transferred over to the state college, got it, I could just go straight into my major.

Speaker 2: 1:33:03

There was one class I took. It was a sort of writing class. It must have been a writing class and there was this one guy in there and long hair. You know, remember the Titans Sunshine? It was the guy with the riding gosling, I think is who. It was Long hair, he was like the quarterback. That's what that dude looked like. Just Long hair, he was like the quarterback. Okay, that's what that dude looked like, just this long hair. He rode like a motorcycle. He had a motorcycle helmet. It was probably a gay motorcycle anyway. It wasn't even like a cool lid he was carrying into class. It was like this gay, like Little. Vespa.

Speaker 2: 1:33:37

Yeah, a little turtle shell, uh-huh, um. And we I forgot what the what the assignment was, but we started getting into talks of like, like the military, and I'm not one to be like, well, I was in the military, I know how it goes like, I was just like, leave me the fuck alone. So I'm like in the back trying to do you think, you know, stay to myself. And um, the teacher, so she, she was like asking him and he had some pretty wild assumptions or thoughts, you know, and I was just like this tool and the teacher, you know it's hard to like because I hardly wear pants.

Speaker 2: 1:34:18

I'm wearing pants now, but I'm always like in shorts, yeah, so I'm always like, picked out, like they know, like there's only one way this guy, this young, is looking like that, unless he got bit by a shark. So he's saying like all this off the wall stuff, and then she's like so what do you think about it? And I was like, put you on the spot, yeah. And so I gave, you know, I gave my bit, and he was like oh no, no, this. And that it got to the point where I was like, look bro, you're wrong, you're wrong, simmer down. And it ended up getting heated, we were screaming. I ended up taking off my prosthetic and I handed it to him and then I was like like now, say that stupid shit you're saying really yeah, I was like now, now, try and justify that dumb shit that's coming in your mouth right now.

Speaker 2: 1:35:12

And he's like, uh, and I was like that's what I fucking thought. I put my leg back on, grab my shit and I walked out. No shit, yeah. Um. So it was like it was like stuff like that like early on, like I was like angry in like that sense, where it was like a stuff like that like early on, like I was like angry in like that sense, where it was like a lot of people my peer group didn't understand like what was actually going on.

Speaker 2: 1:35:34

You know, geopolitically For sure, and not that I'm a geopolitical cold and this and that, and you know Susie broke up with her boyfriend and you know whoa me kind of mentality. And I was like I got buddies fighting for their lives right now. I got buddies laid up in the hospitals that can't wipe their own. You know rear ends and this is what you're complaining about. And it took me a while to like everybody has one. Everybody has a story to like. Everybody has one, everybody has a story. Two, everybody different walks of life. But because I wouldn't, you know that's not for everybody to go and join and see that type of stuff. Like I can't knock them for that, but I didn't understand it. I think because I was too young. Yeah, you know, like oh F, these guys, you know, but it didn't happen. A whole lot Good, but that, um, but not it didn't happen a whole lot.

Speaker 2: 1:36:26

Good, that was um. That was one time, yeah, um, and then it happened another time when I was in grad school, um, and so, yeah, it's just, it was odd cause it was another veteran, but it was like a veteran from like way back in the day, oh, you know, like um. So he had his own like opinions and, um, again, I was trying to stay out of it and he was the one who put me on the spot and I was like why you don't want my opinion? You could have just said what you said. The class could have been like just chill man, and we could have just let it go. But now you're calling me out. Gotta bring me into it. Yeah, and I didn't want to be.

Speaker 2: 1:37:09

It was, you know, college was. It was cool, like I enjoyed learning, I like I enjoyed going, yeah, but it was, it was an experience. But they had a pretty big Vet Center presence on campus which was cool. So a lot of veterans and hung out on the vet center, did a lot of work there, kind of made friends with other veterans and it kind of stayed to myself, you know, didn't do any like crazy parties at school or anything like that, because, you know, with my wife, so I'd do my work at school, say as long as I need to, and then go home, got it. That was it. That was life yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:37:41

So at what point did we get connected during this journey of yours?

Speaker 2: 1:37:46

uh, must have been soon after I started college. Yeah, yeah, uh, because I got out in 2013, okay, and then I started school fall of 2013, and then we got connected in 2014, early in the year, I think it was so it was like shortly after I started school that I got connected, uh, with you and our first experience together was oh man, yeah, I look back on it now.

Speaker 1: 1:38:19

I'm just like Like what were we thinking to invite you on a tough mutter?

Speaker 2: 1:38:27

Yeah it was a wild time, yeah. So I'm at home with my in-laws doing whatever and I'm just there hanging out. You know, like I don't have kids yet my sister-in-law doesn't have kids yet my sister-in-law was really into running, like marathons and things like that. At the time she was like like really into running, and so she had done a marathon in san francisco the year prior and uh, she's like, oh, you guys should totally do it. Like the course is flat because it was along the embarcadero, okay, except for like the very last end was like a little mo hill type of hill. And she's like but isn't that like you can do it?

Speaker 1: 1:39:01

so you're. You're just not too big of an issue for you.

Speaker 2: 1:39:04

Yeah, well, I wasn't like a big runner, like I had the running legs, but it wasn't like I'm out there running every day Like I was. It's like I'll run my mouth. Okay, today I'll run my mouth. That's about how much cardio I'll get in, yep. And so I was like you know what, whatever, like you know what, whatever, you know I'm, I'm game. You know, I'm trying to stay kind of active and fit anyhow. So I was like, okay, I'm game. And so she convinces myself to go, my wife to go, her sister to go, dad and her mom. Okay, my sister-in-law didn't go. I forget why she couldn't make it, but she didn't go wait.

Speaker 1: 1:39:38

So she puts the whole thing together and doesn't go, and all you end up going yes, okay, I forget why she didn't go, but she wasn't there, I believe.

Speaker 2: 1:39:46

And so we get there and we go to like check in and things like that, and they give us the course map. Bro, it's like actual san francisco hills and just steep declines. I'm like there's no way.

Speaker 1: 1:39:59

I'm running this, absolutely no way, and so this is not how it was presented. Yeah, by any means.

Speaker 2: 1:40:05

And so we got on the phone and we call her up and like what the is this? This is not flat, you know, it's like, I'm sorry, last year it was. I was like this is some bullshit. And so we uh ended up getting my father-in-law to push me in a wheelchair up the hill, so that the thing was, if it was hills he'd push me up, because, okay, I don't do hills, hills and stairs, not happening, not happening. Um, and then on the flat bits which wasn't a whole lot in san francisco, I would run, I'd get out, kind of jog a little bit, run and um, so that was the thing. And right out the gate, boom, they let us go. Caitlin takes off. I didn't see her for the rest of the marathon. Left, you left me, just straight up, left she's like you got it dad.

Speaker 2: 1:40:49

I'm like okay, speedy gonzalez, like where are we going right? Now and so I didn't see. I didn't see her again and we end up losing my mother-in-law somewhere because she ended up getting so after so long. When you go through these marathons, they start blocking off for the traffic, so you block off the traffic for the marathon, but after you get to a certain point they block it off so traffic can start going oh she got caught in one of these like block offs and had to go a different route, so it just made my father okay okay

Speaker 1: 1:41:16

like early on, how is this dude taking it? I mean, did he go there expecting to push you or thought you were gonna run it?

Speaker 2: 1:41:22

no, he wasn't gonna run, he was gonna support and we had to convince the people to let him go, as like a coach okay, um, so he gets suckered into this race.

Speaker 2: 1:41:32

He was not ready at all and um, so he's going and I remember, you know we're going up the hills or whatever, and people like, oh yeah, good job, and they're giving me high fives and you know, and he's behind me pushing me, just dying, just sucking wind. I mean, I'm not a big guy, but I'm not a light guy either, so I can only imagine. God bless him.

Speaker 1: 1:41:53

It's not easy, I mean, even though you're in a wheelchair, going up hills. It's been a wear on you, yeah, and you've been over.

Speaker 2: 1:41:59

God bless him. But he's in my ear and he's like what the fuck? He's like I'm doing the work. I was like I don't know man, I'm the one without legs, I don't know, to tell you, um, and so we get through it and we get to the last bit.

Speaker 2: 1:42:13

You know, we come down this back, this back hill, and it wraps around and there's maybe 200 yards, maybe okay, less than that, maybe 150 yards maybe, and it's flat and they got the finish lines, got this big likeway, people along the sides, people like photographers up top, so everybody's there, everybody. And I tell my father like, hey, I'm going to run it in, the least I can do is like run this last bit.

Speaker 2: 1:42:38

You're dying back there, right, you push me this entire way. It was a half marathon, so it was like 13.1 or 2 or whatever miles that is Gross. 90% of it was hills, so a majority of it. I'm in the wheelchair Just cruising just waving at people.

Speaker 1: 1:42:55

You're welcome, you're welcome, so he's like, thank God, right.

Speaker 2: 1:42:58

So I get up and I start going and this crowd goes crazy and they're clapping. They're like, oh, here's our veteran, you know they're clapping it in and I get maybe 30 feet, maybe 30 feet, and I eat it. I go down and this crowd goes silent. You hear a pin drop, it goes silent. But the rest of the runners were just doing the Heisman, just jumping, going around because we've got to make time. It was a qualifier. So they're just leaving you in there.

Speaker 2: 1:43:28

Yeah, so it was a qualifying race for one of the big races, yeah, and so they're trying to make time and so they're like boom, boom, jumping over me doing the Heisman.

Speaker 2: 1:43:42

And I eventually was able to get up, which probably isn't the easiest thing, missing an arm, both straight leg yeah, not in in running legs either, um yeah, like a baby giraffe trying to stand up, okay, and I just kind of walk it. I don't even like jog it back and I just like walk it in and the crowd's like, oh yeah, here we go. I was like man, don't, even, don't, even, I don't need it. I just, yeah, you just watch me. You got it on camera somewhere. I just ate shit, like I was like don't. And we end up finding my wife and I'm like where did you go? And she was like well, I had to make time. I was like you left us at the start line and I was like man, but it was a funny experience yeah and so after that we get home.

Speaker 2: 1:44:22

Well, we had set the set Tough Mudder up prior to this half marathon and that's how I met Kyle at the Viewers. I remember Kyle in another episode. My sister-in-law knows him and she was like oh, I know this guy, kyle, he's with this organization and this, and that Is it okay if I give him your number? I was like, yeah, sure, no problem. So he calls me up and he's like hey, man, this is Kyle, you know I'm so-and-so, I'm with, you know this organization.

Speaker 1: 1:44:47

He was never with us.

Speaker 2: 1:44:52

Let's just figure it out and he's like we want to get you out and do some cool stuff. You know, can we set up some things? The tough mudder afterwards, dude, I was already broken off and then we did a tough mudder and I was just man, that was tough that was one of the toughest things I've ever done in my life.

Speaker 1: 1:45:13

Yeah, was that tough butter? Because we, we all for I don't know why I was fed this, this, like I don't want to say lie, that you could run and that it would be okay. We would just like help you through this tough mudder and I feel like it was a lot like san francisco. We started and it was flat. We turned a corner and then it was just ridge lines the whole day I don't care what anybody said.

Speaker 2: 1:45:38

You say running anything, you put california in there. I'm not doing it oh yeah all hills oh 100 I don't care how many times you try to say oh no, it's going to be flat. No, fuck that.

Speaker 1: 1:45:47

Yeah, yeah, no, and it was wild man. We were not prepared for it. I mean, we had a team.

Speaker 2: 1:45:52

Right.

Speaker 1: 1:45:52

We had a really bunch of good guys, which was awesome yeah, and I think, if you remember, six hours, six or eight hours, we started in the morning and we were one of the last groups to finish but we did every obstacle.

Speaker 2: 1:46:10

We did every obstacle. I I tried not to, but you were like no, we're doing it. Yeah we.

Speaker 1: 1:46:16

I remember the what we were going up. It got so bad. Your prosthetics were so heavy because we were carrying you. Right, we just said, fuck it, throw you on our back. We were running and we were so raw from the sand being on your prosthetics from your thighs we're just wearing all and dudes would just carry you as long as they could running and then just swap you out. And I'll never forget it was like the biggest hill of the whole day where this like group of like australian greek gods or british greek god, wherever they were from foreign I think by that point I dumped my my prosthetics off on my wife.

Speaker 1: 1:46:49

I was like you got to take these yes, we ended up just getting rid of them completely like part way through the race yeah but yeah, we got to that hill and you guys are just smoked.

Speaker 2: 1:46:58

I mean, you got, god blessed, you guys are saints. But you got, you guys are smoked and they're like, hey, mate, we got him and just tossed me up like a day packing. It was just up this hill, it's fresh, and you guys are like thank you, see you up there in a minute, we'll catch you at the top.

Speaker 1: 1:47:14

Yeah, that was one of those like, oh my god, oh my god, we could breathe. It was. That was rough, and it's so hard too, because, like, how do you sit here and bitch that we're tired, when you're sitting here doing this with us as a triple amputee that, like literally left everything in Afghan? You're in this weird situation where you want to die but you can't say anything, because it's like, oh, I'm chafing because of your prosthetics, from losing both your legs in Afghanistan. Like, how do you say something? You know, thank you for your service. Yeah, thank you for your service. Yeah, you can put your legs in afghanistan. Like, how do you say something? You know? Yeah, thank you for service. Yeah, that was hilarious. And then we get to the very end. Yeah, we had harnesses. We hoisted you up those walls. Yeah, we threw you down tubes that shot out into the water.

Speaker 2: 1:47:56

You went off the plank at one point.

Speaker 1: 1:47:58

Yeah, you dropped me off in the monkey bars and just, oh, man, I trained I thought I think kyle and I might have talked about that on his podcast that I trained for months to carry you. I had this image in my head that you're just gonna be hanging onto my back and I'm just gonna be just across them, those a-frame monkey bars and I was gonna look like this the baddest motherfucker on that course and I make it to like the third one. I'm like you're so heavy.

Speaker 2: 1:48:23

Yeah, I can't do it. You got to drop off what, let go.

Speaker 1: 1:48:26

And it's like boop, I'm like bail, bail, yeah, you fall off, you get across. I finally go in. We get you out of there, dude, that was.

Speaker 2: 1:48:35

We were wet from like the first obstacle the entire way, very the very first one was an ice plunge, I think it was.

Speaker 1: 1:48:41

No, we had to crawl through the mud in the bulb wires. How you started it.

Speaker 2: 1:48:46

Something. There was an ice plunge.

Speaker 1: 1:48:48

I remember you coming. I remember in the video you coming out of the ice plunge your face is you're like nah, send me back to Afghan.

Speaker 2: 1:48:55

I'm cool on this shit. I do ice baths, but yeah, we were wet from like the start.

Speaker 1: 1:49:00

Yeah, it start. Yeah, it was miserable. Then we did that big slide that went down into the mud. That was right toward the end. And then we finish and we have to go through the cattle wire yeah you did everything you could to get out of it.

Speaker 2: 1:49:14

I did and you know you're like come on, we'll go do this, like no. He's like no, no, no, get on my back, get on my back. So I climb on you and we get there and there's two paths. Like all the obstacles have two paths where you can do the obstacle or not. And I was like dude, I think we just go around this one Like we've done enough. No, no, no, no, no, we're not going to leave this one undone. It's the last.

Speaker 2: 1:49:33

It's the last one and I'm like no, I was like we're soaking wet, like we're soaking wet and you go boop, but you take two steps and go zee and you just drop.

Speaker 1: 1:49:44

I wonder if they still pump as much electricity through them as they did in the early days. I don't know, Because I see some clips and these guys are like uh, uh, go.

Speaker 2: 1:49:53

Dude, it was like steam, like smoke coming off your forehead, zee, and you just dropped and I'm on the floor, I'm like oh fuck, because you got shocked through me. Yeah, and I'm on the floor. I'm like, oh fuck, because you got shocked through me, yeah. And so I'm like, oh my God, like just on the ground. But then I realize like I'm low enough, like these wires are just right here. Yeah. And so I'm like bet, so I roll over and I just start crawling underneath these wires. But you're such a big person.

Speaker 1: 1:50:20

I didn't have that option.

Speaker 2: 1:50:21

No matter how low you got, you were touching the wire. So you're like and I got to the very end and it had this little like bump, but everything was muddy and so I'm trying to climb up it and I keep sliding down, climbing up to keep sliding down, and so you're like I got you, I got you and you're pushing me and as you do it, you get shocked and it goes through me, it shocks me in my ass.

Speaker 1: 1:50:45

I roll out the back.

Speaker 2: 1:50:46

I remember this and I'm like don't you fucking touch me? Nobody touch me. And then you roll out and I just get a boot in the head.

Speaker 1: 1:50:54

Yeah, I kicked you in the head. Then we just lay there for a second, it was smoke. It's over. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:51:05

Then you get some stupid ass headband and a little like I think that's all we got from that.

Speaker 1: 1:51:07

Yeah, I was like never again, never again.

Speaker 2: 1:51:08

We ended up all doing another one, not you.

Speaker 1: 1:51:09

You opted out of that one, but we did a vegas one right after that. That was. I got shocked even worse on that one, but I was that was a good time, man.

Speaker 2: 1:51:16

I mean, that's something that we'll be telling our kids and grandkids, and for sure that was the start, though that was that was the start of wishes, man.

Speaker 1: 1:51:24

You were right in the beginning. Those were the early days when we didn't have an absolute clue what we were doing and we were just we. But we were making shit happen and it was just meeting guys like you yeah, it was a wild time.

Speaker 2: 1:51:36

Early, early organization time was just a wild learning on the fly and yeah, you know, trying to see what works out what doesn't, and it was. It was cool we've evolved so much.

Speaker 1: 1:51:47

yeah, from then we look back on old photos and videos. Now it is the most cringe, embarrassing shit like what we were doing, like asking sponsors for stuff. It was just god dude. It's hilarious because we never went into it with like some corporate mindset. We were. I was just a vet, a Marine that wanted to give back, that's all it was, that's all. We were Right, you know, and it took us a long time to kind of figure out how to line things out and do it more professionally. But I mean, those early days were some of the greatest days, man, sure, and that was just pulling guys out of hospitals.

Speaker 2: 1:52:20

Yeah, you know, like, uh, like we were talking about the other day, you know you found a lot of us early on and I mean, I know you were going through your own thing. You started that organization as you got out of the military and making a lot of transitions with yourself. But you're trying to navigate life after military life, you know, and you've come across a bunch of us. You know broken-spirited, you know individuals, for for the most part, and I don't know what it is man but you just sort of got this, this aura which kind of gravitated towards you and the rest was history. Like we. Just it early days was a ball it was man it was a good time.

Speaker 1: 1:52:57

I mean, like you, wayne and jared, I mean jared was dude, dude he was. I got to get him on, I got to get him out here.

Speaker 2: 1:53:06

He's doing great.

Speaker 1: 1:53:07

Doing incredible. I mean when we met Jared, he was, he had a partially severed spinal cord. He, I mean he broke almost every bone in his body, cracked all the teeth in his head. I mean he, he should not have lived. And so I met him and I was carrying him up and down mountains in California in and out of a wheelchair and now he's walking and I mean he's done incredible. Who else were the OGs? I've got Mike, wally, mikey, I mean God, dude, and everybody's doing so good. It's awesome to see, especially when we say, like the OG vets, so you guys were fresh, you still were healing, you had sutures, you were doing surgeries. A lot of these guys were still healing when we were pulling them out of their houses to get them out.

Speaker 2: 1:53:56

Physically and spiritually, we were healing, like I said the other day, a great big part, I feel like, feel like in our success, aside from our respective spouses, um was, was wishes oh cool man, you found us in such a broken place and you have to kind of put those pieces back together and dude, it's been a fun ride it's been a hell of a ride, it's.

Speaker 1: 1:54:18

it's weird, you know now with things and slowing down and and closing chapters stuff. It was a hell of a ride, man, it was some fucking work.

Speaker 1: 1:54:29

Oh, for sure it was some work, especially taking care of guys, you know, and taking that burden on and helping pull them away from the wives so the wives can get a break. You know it's not easy on them. Oh for sure, dude, you're probably less than the 1% of dudes that have gone through things that you've encountered and been able to keep a loyal, loving wife oh for sure, I mean, I said it earlier the fact that she's fucking graduating high school and you get blown up and it's like who the fuck does that? Right, right, and then now it's helped you through everything. I think that's a huge part of the downfall of veterans and their mindset is his wives and spouses. I've said it on here before and I'll take that to the grave like they make or break us.

Speaker 2: 1:55:16

For sure, I agree. Your support system is, I would say, 90 of of the battle. If you got a good support system, you're good to go. Yeah, if your support system rocky or it's not there at all, you're not going to be doing too great no, and it's clear we've, I've.

Speaker 1: 1:55:30

I've seen it over the last decade with guys, yeah, doing really well, and then they go through some rocky times and wives start getting leaving or not happy, and then you just see their everything just plummets with them so quick yeah, I mean I know for the caregivers right, the spouses, or if they have other caregivers I mean there's burnout, you know they get.

Speaker 2: 1:55:47

Yeah, it's hard to same stuff, so it's good for them to get the breaks and things like that. But I mean, if you can find, like a good support system that's willing to be in the trenches with you and just slug it out with you, do you? You, you hit the lottery you made it.

Speaker 1: 1:56:01

Do you have any advice for young kids, adults, anybody that's going through anything right now that's going to be dealing with prosthetics or just going through some traumatic injuries in their life? It's, I mean, you're doing a hell of a job, you you're uh, you got a son now I do. You you've gone through college, you graduated, you had a great job. Yeah, family's growing your life. You know, you've done a hell of a job for yourself since I since I met you at such a young age and watch you grow over the years yeah, is there anything that you can give advice to somebody that's going through kind of a shit time right now that you've you've walked those trenches?

Speaker 2: 1:56:41

yeah, you know. Again it goes back to you need a good support system. You know, um, I don't care what anybody says. You know, a lot of people are like, oh, I can do some of my own, or I'm self-made, I did this at bullshit. You need a good support system and you get people in your corner, otherwise you're not going to make it. Yeah, especially if you're going through difficult times, whether it's a traumatic event or job changes or you're sick. If you don't have your support, you're dead in the water, um. So, you know, get a good support system, um, and just take it day by day. A lot of people try and, you know, go their ambitions away, too far out, and they they lose sight of the, the day-to-day and the process to get there and they get frustrated and burnt out. And then it's like, oh, it's never going to happen for me, or they start having these negative thoughts and that's where you start spiraling.

Speaker 2: 1:57:32

And I'm not saying don't look to the future, don't look, you know, a year down the road, five years down the road, but don't lose sight of the progress you're making on those small daily steps. It's one foot in front of the other. You know, and reach out to people that are in your corner. If you need to, you need to talk, need event, need resource or whatever it is. But that's pretty much it. It's really hard to to give sound advice and broad strokes because, for sure, everybody's situation is different. What they're going through is different. But I big key for me would be like your support system and just take it day to day, yeah, and don't lose sight of where you're trying to take it, but don't go too far in the future with it, where you, you know you get bogged down bite off a little chunks at a time, right, mm-hmm yeah, I mean set that end goal right, like set that end goal, but break it down and just take it step by step question for you.

Speaker 1: 1:58:30

Having son yeah. Knowing everything that we know now as veterans yeah. Would you support him if he joined the military?

Speaker 2: 1:58:39

uh yeah yeah, if that's what he wanted to do, I'm not going to stop him. Yeah, granted everything that happened to me I mean, it afforded me the ability to do a lot of pretty rad stuff For sure. So if that's something he wants to do, I'm about it. We're going to sit down and have that talk, that conversation. There's other branches. You don't have to just go to the Marine Corps because I was there. You don't have to do infantry because that's what I did. There's other MOSs. But these are the pros and cons. This is what could potentially happen.

Speaker 2: 1:59:10

I don't know if we're going to be in a war by the time he wants to join or for what's going to be happening, but really give it to him. You say, hey, look, if there's a war and you end up picking mls, that's a combat role and you deployed the chances. You know you could die, you could be injured and mangled, like me. Um, you can come home with a lot of emotional and mental baggage that you're gonna have to process and deal with on daily basis. Um, you know, and just give them and and talk to them that way and just like look, this is, this is what it is like. Don't just believe these posters and these commercials where you'll be slaying dragons in your blues.

Speaker 2: 1:59:47

Yeah, where the hell is that I don't you know, like I don't have to pay for my blues, yeah, yeah, liars yeah, um, you know, don't just believe, like the average, like there's there's consequences for the actions, no matter where you go.

Speaker 2: 2:00:00

Absolutely just weigh the pros and cons and if that's something that aligns to what you want to do, that looks good for you, that aligns with where you want to be, then sure we can go about it. And if it's not what you want to do, I support that too. You don't have to go to the military. You can go to trade school, you can go to college, you can do all these different things. Or you don't have to go be an entrepreneur. You know, if, as long as you find what you want to do, your passion, I support it. Yep, and so if you want to go military or not, it doesn't bother me.

Speaker 1: 2:00:30

One way or the other, good well, dude, thank you yeah, thanks it's been a great decade knowing you and watching you grow and immature and grow a family, and it's pretty, pretty cool and I'm ready for the. I'm ready to watch the next decade.

Speaker 2: 2:00:46

Yeah, we'll see what happens Fucking A buddy.

Speaker 1: 2:00:48

Thanks, bud, yep, appreciate you as always. Yeah, always Love you, buddy. Cool, that was a good one, yeah, that was good. Yeah, I enjoyed that.

Speaker 3: 2:00:57

That was really good, so good. Can you get a picture of him and I sitting here before?