#61 - What They Don't Tell You When You Put On The Uniform: Behind The Badge w/Rob Woodworth

"I stood in intersections at midnight hoping to get hit by a car."

Former police officer Robert Woodworth shares the untold cost of wearing the badge—from handling bodies and witnessing tragedy to protesters tracking down his home, the department's failure to provide meaningful support when he reached out for help, and his descent into dangerous coping mechanisms. "I stood in intersections at midnight hoping to get hit by a car," he confesses. "It was easier than getting hit by a car than admitting I needed help."

This conversation exposes the devastating gap in mental health support for officers and the crushing isolation that follows when they can no longer wear the badge. We learn how the brotherhood Robert thought would always have his back disappeared almost overnight when he went on medical leave, and how workers' compensation fought him every step of the way.

Whether you're in public service, struggling with identity after a career change, or just trying to understand what officers really experience beyond what we see in the media, this conversation offers powerful insights into trauma, resilience, and rediscovering your purpose when life forces you to start again.

This powerful episode exposes the dark side of modern policing and how one man found purpose again after walking away. It's not just about law enforcement—it's about what happens when your dream job becomes a nightmare.

To follow Rob on Instagram visit: @Robwoody101

Chapters

• 0:00 Journey to Becoming An Officer
• 16:22 First Experiences as a Rookie Cop
• 35:05 Dealing With Dark Realities of Police Work
• 53:18 The George Floyd Effect and Personal Threats
• 1:15:01 Mental Health Crisis and Suicidal Thoughts
• 1:39:42 Department Abandonment and Recovery Struggle
• 2:10:10 Finding New Purpose Through Fitness
• 2:28:24 Life Lessons and Moving Forward

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

Robert, yo welcome dude thanks for having me yeah, I'm, uh, I'm looking forward to this one, because lately we've had a few law enforcement officers on and just sharing their story like their real side of their yeah their time as a cop and we got bullshitting in the gym and you mentioned some things real quick and I was like, oh my god, we got to talk because you know you went through some pretty rough times and I say, life kind of spiraled out. It started to and you kind of got out of hand from some things you had to deal with as a cop and you were in during what, the george floyd era and dealing with all of that crap and I don't know how prominent it was in your area, but it's still. It was a ripple effect across the us and the hate and just everything you guys were dealing with and kind of we were mentioning a little bit ago.

Speaker 1: 0:54

Like I haven't had the best you know experiences with law enforcement, but it was always my fault. I was always that guy I'm always stunting on the bike or doing something stupid. So I I asked for it 99% of the time. But it's like now that I've, you know, been able to talk and be able to have give a platform for law enforcement officers have a voice. It's been wild Like it's and you have this crazy story I mean you had to deal with the death of a child, fucked you up a bit, kind of sets you on that path, and then obviously, you got everything lined out and you're doing pretty incredible now and at least what I can see.

Speaker 1: 1:29

So life's good. Now let's jump into it. Dude, I just want to have this conversation with you and and get to know you and and uh see, in the gym every single day. You're big ass, dude, and and so yeah, so why don't we just start? Who are you and where are you from? Oh shoot.

Speaker 2: 1:43

Robert Woodworth. I'm from. Well, I'm actually born in Boise, so I can claim local. Okay, I was adopted, moved out to Sonoma County Bay Area, lived out there for the past 27, 28 years and you know it's funny. It's like as little kids.

Speaker 2: 2:01

You grow up and, like little boys, they want to be an astronaut, policeman or a firefighter and from the earliest time that I could remember, it was just I want to be a cop Really. I want to be a police officer. That's the only thing I ever wanted to do Really and I don't know why it stuck with me. I don't know why, the reasoning behind it, but it was just that was my goal. Okay, and I was a contract city for the sheriff's office and so it was really cool to see their police cars. They had really cool tan and green uniforms. They were the prestigious law enforcement agency and just growing up being around them, they were always friendly. Whenever I saw them, I just was like this is what I want to do and so, just kind of growing up, I lived my life towards that.

Speaker 2: 2:42

You know, in high school I did stupid things but I was always cognizant of. Like I have bigger things that I want to do later on and this is what I'm working for, and so that's what I wanted to do. You know, I did my partying, I did my explorative stuff and, you know, had fun, but I never got myself into serious trouble where I knew it was going to affect me in the long run, trouble where I knew it was going to affect me in the long run. Um, my folks provided me with, like a dude, an amazing life that I can't even I can't say thank you enough. You know, we had the opportunity to travel. I grew up in the Bahamas, grew up in the Gulf, like that's where we spent our summers, um, so I had the opportunity to see third world countries, different people, different walks of life.

Speaker 1: 3:19

So you had a completely different perspective of life. Yeah than I would say, probably 90% of the people you're growing up with.

Speaker 2: 3:26

Yeah, 100%. You know, I spent a lot of time like, for a short period of time, my brother and I and the whole family, we moved down to St John in the Virgin Islands. Really, we lived there. You know, I was the minority. What was that like? Oh, it was a trip. I mean, it was so cool. So we went down there and we got enrolled in school, we got enrolled in church. We did the whole nine yards and it was weird because my brother and I were the only white people.

Speaker 1: 3:49

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:49

So it was kind of cool to have that minority feeling there. And yeah, we went to school every day. We would get out about 12, 1 o'clock in the afternoon and just go play in the ocean for the rest of the day, and so we'd go snorkeling. Really, yeah, really, yeah. I remember sitting at this desk in school and I didn't pay attention at all and I would just look out the window and count the iguanas in the tree and it was like 30, 40 of them. I'd never seen anything like it no shit yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:10

And so we had such a cool opportunity to do that kind of stuff growing up. And then, you know, we zoned into the Bahamas and my folks ended up buying property down there and so every summer we'd go down there for two weeks at a time and just live on the beach and have fun there. So it was really cool to have that experience. You don't appreciate it when you're a little kid, for sure, you know, but growing up and kind of getting that maturity and looking back, I'm like dude, that's pretty cool.

Speaker 1: 4:36

And that's a pretty cool experience.

Speaker 2: 4:38

So it was pretty cool, um, but yeah, I mean, I went to, went to to high school, grew up playing baseball. That was the big thing, um, and once kind of the rule in the family is, once you start playing baseball you inherit a nickname. So my last name is woodworth and when you start playing baseball you inherit woody, and that was my dad's name when he played ball, his dad's name when he played ball, and so when I started I took that name on. Okay, um, and so I grew up playing baseball, swimming water polo. After high school I immediately I know we touched base on it, like I immediately jumped out onto my own, got my first apartment. Probably wasn't much bigger than this room and you know, you'll always remember that apartment though, oh my God yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:20

I remember, I'll never forget it. I remember the first time going grocery shopping. I swear to God, everyone knew it was my first time grocery shopping by myself. Everyone was staring at me and I walked out with milk, bread, peanut butter, no cereal, no jelly, ran out of toilet paper, toothpaste all the stuff you take for granted from your mom.

Speaker 1: 5:40

You're like.

Speaker 2: 5:40

I don't even have salt or pepper, no condiments, anything. I ruined all of my clothes because I heat dried. Everything Came out super small. So, dude, it was such a hard learning curve that's learning though, yeah 100%.

Speaker 2: 5:51

That's growing up. But I went to the junior college and I got the opportunity. Coming out of high school, I got the opportunity to go to college for baseball, okay. And so a school in St Louis. They flew me out. They did the whole recruitment weekend, oh really yeah. And so I went out, practiced with the team. They showed me a good time breakfast, lunch, showed me the school. Everything was super cool about it. I loved it. I just don't think I was ready to leave California.

Speaker 1: 6:17

Okay.

Speaker 2: 6:18

And so I met with the DA, or not the DA, uh, principal or person in charge of the college, um, and he basically was I mean, it's a wild conversation, but I was 18 years old and he says you know, we got beautiful girls here, just, you know, just as beautiful in California, we got blondes, brunettes, whatever you're worried about. We got here and I'm like you know, that's not why I'm here, I'm not here for that, I'm here to play baseball and learn. I'm here, I'm not here for that, I'm here to play baseball and learn. And so it kind of turned me off to it a little bit. And really, yeah, like just to have a conversation with an adult and someone who's in charge of a college, and the only thing he was talking about was how he has pretty girls on campus. I'm like that's kind of weird.

Speaker 2: 6:58

I wasn't ready for that, um, but I also wasn't ready to leave California. I had goals, like I wanted to work for the sheriff's office, yeah, and so I told him that. So I chose to go to the junior college, did that for two years. I enrolled as a police intern there, um, actually it's a pretty funny full circle story in that. So I it was a two year program. It was paid Um, and you learned how to do traffic stops, talk on the radio. You give escorts to students at night if they needed it. You'd lock up the campus and on the side you would learn how to search a person, how to handcuff, building searches, and it was just basically an introduction into law enforcement.

Speaker 1: 7:36

So you're getting like a tent program in a way. Okay, that's pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 7:40

It kind of introduced me to law enforcement, because prior to that, like I'm the first in the family, I've never had or been personal in law enforcement before, and so that was an introduction into like hey, this is kind of what we do here. I loved it. It was everything I wanted it to be, everything I dreamed it to be. Um, I was always super fun, loving, laughing, joking, like I loved it and I made the most of it, and so it was a two year program. I stayed there for two years. I think I was 19. And you know, like cops don't give nurses or other cops tickets and stuff like that. So I got into the mindset and I think I was 19 years old and I had a motorcycle and I was ripping through town and I ended up getting stopped by a sheriff and I was a police intern. I had a little police intern badge and, uh, I remember he got me dead to rights.

Speaker 2: 8:29

I even thought about it for a second. I was like you know, I could probably get away from him because he was at a dead stop. I flew by him going 60 on the way up, accelerating, and I thought I was a bad-ass on my motorcycle. So I see him flip around and I'm like, oh, shoot's got me. I could probably ditch him, though, and I thought about it. I'm like now I'll just stop. So I stopped. We started talking and I was like yeah, you know my bad. You know I'm coming from work, I just got off. I'm a police intern at the JC department. You know I'm late to go see my parents, whatever the excuse was and I said, oh, you're a police intern there, who's your sergeantant?

Speaker 1: 9:03

And so I said oh no, you shouldn't have said shit.

Speaker 2: 9:06

You shouldn't have said shit. So I, literally, I'm sitting there In my mind, I'm like, okay, it's kind of turning, this might work out in my favor. And I was like, oh, his name is Sergeant Potter. And he's like, oh, what are the call? Him on the spot. I'm like, hey, sergeant, I have someone here who wants to talk to you. So, uh, hand the phone over. And this is a deputy hoffler, that's his name. And so he goes back to his motorcycle. They're talking stuff like that. He comes back, gives me the phone. He's like you know, I should be snipping your license right now and towing your bike. But potter said you're a good kid, you do well this and that. So I'm gonna cut you a break, but you gotta slow it down yeah and I'm like yes, sir, thank you.

Speaker 2: 9:54

And then he's like you're also gonna have a conversation with him.

Speaker 1: 9:57

I'm like, cool, I expect that but in my mind I'm like, yeah, all right it works right, it works Cool, this is great, and so I drove away.

Speaker 2: 10:04

Well, sure enough, I show up to work the next day and I have a sit down conversation with them. I get put on probation with this police internship.

Speaker 1: 10:12

Oh, are you tripping at this point?

Speaker 2: 10:13

Yeah, I was like oh God, this is actually so much worse. And so I got put on probation. I couldn't. I couldn't be like a training officer, it couldn't be a sergeant, couldn't do any of that. I'm like whatever, that's fine. And then I had to write a handwritten note and deliver it to the deputy and say like I'm sorry for speeding, you know.

Speaker 2: 10:31

I realized it was someone or be dangerous or whatever. So I wrote that and then I'll tie that back in later on in the story because it's pretty funny. So I had that experience, graduated from, had that experience, um, graduated from the cadet program after two years and at that point I was 20. Yeah, I was 20 years old and in order to buy a handgun in California you gotta be 21. And I timed it out. So I put myself into the police Academy, so where I graduate the Academy, and I'd be 21. And so, but you need a gun in the academy. So my dad ended up having to buy my gun. He's never touched a gun, he's never experienced anything with a gun. And so I'm like hey, dad, I applied to the academy, I got in. He's like that's great, fantastic, cool. I need you to go buy a gun for me. You have to provide your own gun for the academy if you're not sponsored. So if you're not hired by an agency, okay, you got to provide your own gun. Interesting, yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:26

And so I went in as a non-sponsor, so I'm paying my own way. Um, and it's kind of there's two ways to look at it Like a sponsored guy has a job, he has a job on the line, so if he fails the Academy he's losing a job, okay. But also like an unsponsored person. You got to prove yourself a little bit, because there's nothing backing you. You know you're putting all your money in your mouth. You know like you're doing it yourself. And so I was like I want to do this. I'll be 21. I'm eligible to be hired. And I think, like I can do it, I can do this.

Speaker 2: 11:55

And so we went to a gun store and I had to prep them for it. I'm like, listen, there's a few like do's and don'ts, right. And you go in there. You say, hey, I want to look at this gun. This is what kind of gun? It's a glock 17, nine mil. That's all I need. And he's like okay, cool, he's. I was like you don't pull the trigger and you don't point it at someone. And he's like got it cool. And so we go in the store and we find the glock. I said this is the gun, this and that. So we he's like, okay, cool, can I this and that? So a guy brings the gun out on the table, clears it, registered it safe and the first thing my dad does is grabs a gun, goes, points it at the dude and just goes click right at the gun dealer.

Speaker 2: 12:33

I'm like, oh, no, so the guy immediately grabs a gun and says, hey, sorry, we just went over this Like you did the two things you can't do, and he's like, well, I got to make sure it works. I'm like, yeah, it works, dad, it works Okay.

Speaker 2: 12:48

And so we can't do that so we got to go to another gun store and then we go ahead and buy it. But yeah, I mean, it wasn't even my gun, it was my dad's gun in the academy. No shit, it was horrible. 21. We got it all registered in my name.

Speaker 2: 13:01

Yeah, yeah, I showed up and, uh, day one of the academy. Everyone's all stressed out in the parking lot, but I was prepared. I knew the radio codes, I knew how to dress my uniform, I knew what a gig line was. Okay, I gotta polish my boots, because the two years of internship all we did was that, you know, yeah, and so I was a little bit more relaxed. But I also knew that I'm like this is real right, and so we all lined up alphabetical order. It was a little bit more relaxed, but I also knew that I'm like this is real right, and so we all lined up alphabetical order.

Speaker 2: 13:27

It was a complete shit show, right? Everyone has no idea what's going on. It was me and another dude from the same intern program, so we're both last name start with W, so we were right next to each other and we're sitting there like this is cake. And I remember the first day we're standing at attention, they're ripping batons out, guns ripping us apart, yelling at us, screaming at us the whole night. Not what they do today. Today's very soft and I didn't get. I didn't get an academy experience like 20 years ago, where they would. It was very militaristic, for sure, but no, like our RTOs would rip our batons out, they'd grab us, they'd tear our uniform, they would, would do stuff to us and now they just don't touch anything. They can't do anything. They can't touch.

Speaker 2: 14:07

They're just very sensitive and that's just today's world um so, but I remember we lined up, we're standing out attention, everyone's just getting their ass handed to them and we're sitting there like in the back, like what the fuck did we sign up for? And, uh, there was a dude front and center. Ex ex-military dude should have been squared away, you would think. Depending on the branch yeah, air Force yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:30

Facts yeah, yeah and so this dude I swear to God, his uniform was probably crumpled into a ball the size of a tennis ball, oh, and he puts it on. And he put it on. I mean, you could draw a map with all the lines on it, just a topography map. Shit show. Yeah, just a shit show. And he didn't know what keepers were. So his belt was all hanging off and he had like a quick release mag or a quick release holster. Okay, so it's just a button and the gun comes right out. And so he's standing front and center and I feel so bad for him. And they ripped him apart.

Speaker 2: 14:59

And so we had this little manual thing. This is so funny. We had a manual thing that we're supposed to bring. We're supposed to read it and then bring it, okay. And so they say you know, hey, everyone brought their manuals. Yep, did you guys read them? Yep, this kid front and center. He's like, yep, read it. Yep, brought it. They're like, cool, go get it. And everyone just pulls it out. And he doesn't pull it out and they're like where is it? He's like well, I figured we'd go over it in class, okay, so why didn't you bring it? Well, because I already read it. And so because of him, we all ran until we fucking had cramps, sweating this and that, and at the end of the day he was the attention for the whole first day, like I just felt. So bad.

Speaker 1: 15:37

You never want to be that guy. No, no.

Speaker 2: 15:38

Ever, absolutely not. It's bootcamp and academy. You don't want to be the center of attention, no, you just want to blend in Yup and uh. So at the end of the first day, you know, I knew a couple of people and like that dude's not coming back, you know, like that guy just got his ass handed to him for 10 hours.

Speaker 1: 15:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:54

And sure enough, he showed up the next day and we became really good friends. He got his shit squared away, but uh, good for him. Usually they don't. I was shocked and then, but he showed up the next day. We went through the academy. I was the youngest one, I was the only one that was 20.

Speaker 1: 16:08

Did you get shit for that?

Speaker 2: 16:10

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:10

Oh yeah, for sure, like I was always super young and I looked really young, like I weighed probably 175 pounds, okay, and I was very young. I think the next one up was probably 24, 25. Okay, and the oldest was 50. He was a yeah, he was a Marine Corps, full career Marine Corps, and he got hired by Stockton PD and he was in there with two other guys 50?. He was in there, 50 years old, going through a police academy Badass, total badass. But yeah, I mean, it was anywhere from me being at 20 to 50 years old and uh, that is a huge range. Yeah, it was crazy, but we had a small class. It would think it was like 20 or 21. And, uh, we all got along really well. The Academy I loved it, I thrived in it because it was nice to show up, you don't have to think, do anything, um, and then they took me out for my 21st birthday Absolutely wrecked me.

Speaker 1: 17:01

Yeah, I was going to say how'd that go?

Speaker 2: 17:02

Oh my God, I think so. We had Wednesdays off. My birthday was on a Tuesday, so Tuesday at midnight we all met up and, uh, they just fed me every drink under the sun and it was a shit show. They ended up having to carry me home. I was a rag doll.

Speaker 2: 17:17

And I remember waking up the next day in my apartment again no bigger than this room studio apartment. I woke up and I had like someone in my bed, someone on my couch. I was laying on the floor, I was shirtless in my PT sweats and I was like who the fuck changed me? That's all I cared about. I didn't even register that people were in my apartment. I was like, how the fuck did I get changed? And I had this raspberry on my back. I'm like, oh my God, my back is sore. It turns dropped me down the stairs like a full flight of stairs. They just dropped me. So we showed up the next day, thursday. I was hurt for 24 hours. I, like the kettle salt and pepper chips at the end of the day saved my life. Dude, I had a big bag of them. That's the only thing. I sat in the park in silence. I watched geese swim in a pond and I just sat there and just stared and dude, that was the only thing I ate that day.

Speaker 2: 18:02

So I showed up the next day and I was the center of attention. Everyone was laughing at me, all the jokes, whatever and so we had a really good bond and everyone was starting to get hired by police departments that weren't sponsored. Oh cool, we had agencies come in and recruit. So I knew I wanted the sheriff's office. That was the only department I wanted. It was that. Is it hard to get into the sheriff's department? Yeah, is it pretty political? Or it's not necessarily political, but the sheriff's office was always known as like hey, this is the elite agency.

Speaker 2: 18:30

Okay, like this is where people go, okay, if they want to be the best, and I always had the highest respect for them. I love the department, love what they stood for. It was very well known and it was kind of transitioning out of this, but it was very well known that, like, if the tan and green show up, shit's serious. Now Got it, problems are going to get handled. You know, and back in the day they had a history of like the tan and green shows up, someone's going to the hospital, okay. Like we're not here to fuck around, they're going to handle things, okay. And so I love that mentality. I love the old school mentality of like we're not here to beat around the bush, we're going to cut straight to the point. And I wanted to be part of that brotherhood. I want to be part of that, you know, because it just felt right and um.

Speaker 2: 19:09

But obviously in the beginning I'm like I'm going to take any job that comes my way. And so I applied to another agency and they were super eager at first. They loved everything about me and then after a couple of weeks I didn't hear anything. So I'm like, all right, whatever, no big deal. So I submitted an app to the sheriff's office and one of the gals in the class her dad was a very well-respected retired lieutenant and I reached out to her I said, hey, can I pick your dad's brain? You know, just because I'm going to interview, I had an interview lined up and so we sat down and he ran me through an oral board and he ran me through interviews. And interviewing for department is unlike anything you've ever done Like yeah, I mean you sit down you sit down in a room.

Speaker 2: 19:55

You wear a full suit and tie, but you typically sit in a room with three to four people interviewing you and it's just you and them on a table and they have your resume. They have everything about you right there and it's typically like a sergeant, an FTO and a deputy or some sort of specialty like defensive tactics instructor. So it's a different variety, different perspectives, with deputies or officers, whatever the department is, and then they each ask a series of questions and it's like what's integrity mean to you? How do you apply that to your life? Um, a couple of scenario questions.

Speaker 2: 20:33

Um, you know what's the most stressful situation you've ever been in and how have you handled it? Um, especially for me, right out of the rip, I'm like hey, listen, I just turned 21. On paper, I'm a 21 year old kid that should theoretically still be in college. Yeah, but this is the life that I've had. I've grew up in third world countries. I've traveled. I've experienced a lot more than most people. Yep, this is something I've worked very hard for. It's all I've ever really wanted. This is the agency that I want to work for and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get here. If know if that means go to another agency or go to the jail for five years to get to patrol, I'll do it.

Speaker 1: 21:05

Really.

Speaker 2: 21:05

Yeah, and I want it how?

Speaker 1: 21:06

did they respond to that? I feel as if I was conducting that, and that's what I would want to hear.

Speaker 2: 21:11

Yeah, I mean, um, you, they don't give you feedback, but I could tell that that was a very good response. You know they were pleased with that. They take notes and stuff like that. Um, and I think another big thing was you know the most stressful situation you've been in and how you've handled that. You know there's not a whole lot of things that a 21 year old has seen. You haven't even started life yet. The most stressful thing is like, oh shit, there's a cop behind me and I've had a beer, you know. And um, so there's, you know, there's that. And so I had an experience, probably less than a year before that interview, where it was the most stressful experience of my life.

Speaker 2: 21:49

Um, and it was me and two guys. We were out riding motorcycles and, uh, one of them had just gotten his license. Like two weeks, two weeks on a bike. He got this CBR 1000, just an absolute crotch rocket, goes zero to God in three seconds.

Speaker 2: 22:02

And, um, we went for a ride and I remember I'm like, hey, man, we're going to take Bennett Valley Road and this road is just a windy hill, goes up and over a hill, goes into Sonoma Valley. If you take it at a slow speed. It's very technical in the aspect of like you're going to learn how you bike handles right that's where I learned. And if you go at a very fast pace, it's fast and very technical, so it's very dangerous.

Speaker 2: 22:27

A lot of people crash, a lot of people die on the road and I was like we're just going to go slow cruise, we'll just cruise it and we'll go at a pace that you're comfortable with and at any point, like it's not anything out of this world, but it's just a back country road that goes through the hills, uh. So we go out on the ride and probably 10-15 minutes into it we start climbing the hill and on that first turn and I'm, I'm leading my buddy's in the middle, the newest guy's in the back, and we're, I'm leading, we're going 30-35 miles an hour and I remember just peeking in the mirror okay, he's still there, he's keeping up, we're doing, well, this and that, and, uh, that very first turn, I just look back and I just see nothing but dust.

Speaker 1: 23:07

Oh God, I'm like shoot Okay.

Speaker 2: 23:10

Um, so I flip around really quick. I almost dumped my bike. Flip around, I run over. He's in the ditch. Um, his bike is torn to shit. Like, keep in mind, I wasn't going very fast, my buddy wasn't going very fast. We're not sure what happened.

Speaker 1: 23:24

Um, and it will turns out he whiskey throttled it for sure, so and in first gear, that bike goes zero to 60 immediately I saw I rode was a thousand for yeah and um, yeah, I mean, it's just a bike.

Speaker 2: 23:35

That's just insane. For a first bike, a thousand is a lot wild, you know. But he's gonna do whatever he's gonna do. And so I just see nothing but dust. I turn around, I run over he's in the ditch, and you know he's going to do whatever he's going to do. And so I just see nothing but dust. I turn around, I run over he's in the ditch and he's got his helmet, he's got a vest on, but just jeans. His shoes are off. Like just knocked him good, and he went headfirst into an oak tree, oh shit. And so there was a split down the middle of his helmet Brand new helmet, split right down the middle. And uh, so I get in the ditch with him. I tell my buddy hey, I need you to call 911. And the area is kind of spotty, cell service wise, um. And so he's trying to coordinate with 911, like, hey, they can't find us. What do I do? This and that.

Speaker 2: 24:16

Meanwhile I ended up pulling him onto me and I'm holding him like this and I got his head in my lap here and and I think I can't remember if I took the helmet or not. I don't think I took it off, I just sat there, I flipped the visor up and he's foaming. He's doing everything that you shouldn't see. Foaming at the mouth, seizing up and typically, like humans, is like a spider. When they die, they curl in, yeah, um, and instead of that he was curling out. His fingers were kind of curling in different ways.

Speaker 2: 24:44

So it's like a sign of like a really traumatic brain injury. So he's foaming, he's doing that and he's seasoned up, um non-responsive, not breathing, um not doing anything and, uh, just stiff as a board. And so I'm saying, you know, hey, travis, dude, like you're going to be okay, we got you this and that helps on the way. Can you wake up? Can you open your eyes? Do something for me? And while I'm trying to deal with this, my buddy can't get the services on the way, and so I tell him like, hey, listen, we're approximately two miles west of the fire department station 11 on bennevalley road, and so finally fire gets there and we're all police interns, like we're all. This is before this guy too.

Speaker 1: 25:25

That crashes a police intern. We're all police interns, Like we're all. This is before this guy too, that crashes a police intern.

Speaker 2: 25:27

We're all police interns, we're all at the JC together. This was before the Academy, and so I'm going to tell him this story in my interview and I said you know I'm, I got to coordinate with this guy that's on the phone, cause nine one can't find us. I'm having to deal with my buddy in here, do the best I can to make him comfortable, try to get him responsive, do something and um. So finally services show up chp medical um. They cart him off into the hospital and the chp guy is like drilling us. He's like why the fuck are you guys racing? You can't be doing that. Your body, your buddy's going to be dead. We should be hauling him off in a body bag. I'm like dude, we're not racing, you know?

Speaker 2: 26:01

like take the bike, do an investigation on it, do whatever we weren, we weren't going fast.

Speaker 1: 26:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:05

And he was just drilling us. He's like you just killed your buddy this and that you killed him. You guys are racing. He shouldn't have a bike like this. You guys are all out here dragging blah, blah, blah. I deal with it all the time and I'm like, yeah, man, whatever.

Speaker 2: 26:22

Like go fuck yourself at that point I was like you know what man? Here's my contact info, we're leaving, and so we drove straight to the hospital and then, sure enough, it was like he wasn't gonna make it through the night. Really. He's gonna be a vegetable too. He's gonna be severely handicapped, completely dependent on family too. He's gonna be handicapped, but he'll be able to kind of go about life in a little bit. And he had to relearn everything. He was basically they reset. He hit the hard reset button, really, the point where he was a baby and so he had to relearn how to do everything. And it was probably two, three years and he made a full recovery. It was impressive.

Speaker 2: 26:58

And for that first year, I mean, we spent the entire like. We spent every day in the hospital. Whether it the entire like, we spent every day in the hospital, whether it be hey, we're at work, hospital or hospital, then go to work, it was just we were there every single day. So we watched them progress through that. It was just a really cool time. But in the moment in my life when I was interviewing, that was the most stressful situation and I handled it and I was like I was calm, I understood what was happening, like I didn't know the severity of it, but I was able to talk and function and handle not being able to be located this and that, and so they really respected that as well, because it was a high stress moment for sure, and as a 21 year old I was able to like function.

Speaker 1: 27:31

Yeah, and talk your way and be able to think through it. A lot of people can't.

Speaker 2: 27:34

Yeah, and so I did well in the interview, the oral board they said all right, go ahead, have a seat outside. And 10 minutes after the interview they said hey, you're in backgrounds, so I'm like great.

Speaker 1: 27:45

So that's the next step Next step.

Speaker 2: 27:47

So I passed that. Um, I immediately met with a background investigator. They gave me a pet like a packet. It was just like the size of a dictionary. I said here you go, fill this out and that's everything you've ever done in your life, good and bad.

Speaker 1: 27:58

So pretty much you're doing a secret clearance. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 28:01

And um. So we did that and it took months and I was still in the academy. So now I'm balancing the academy, doing everything in there while getting hired. So on my off time I was doing paperwork for the sheriff's office, doing this and that, um, and then at graduation I was offered a conditional job offer. So, um, like hey, we're gonna give you the job, all you got to do is do a medical and, uh, psyche val, yeah, and then the job's yours right, assuming you pass all that. Yes, yeah, I'm like cool, no problem. So we do the psych, we do the medical, everything comes back good. They end up hiring me and in october of 16 I get hired on and, like, this is probably what messes me up the most is my dad's very stoic, he's East Coaster, very hardened.

Speaker 2: 28:54

He's had not an easy life, but not a very extreme, hard one compared to others. But he definitely lived quite a life and he's just a dad that you've never seen cry. You don't see emotion from him, right? You don't see him excited. He's just a dad that you've never seen cry. He don't see emotion from him, right, you don't see him excited. He's just very flat, east coaster, old school dad. Old school dad and um, like the swearing day, I couldn't look at him really, yeah, so it was the only time I've ever seen him emotional really.

Speaker 2: 29:22

Yeah, that tore you up, huh it tears me up every time because there's a moment where I truly saw him like he's proud of me. Yeah, you know, and that means like I've accomplished something I wanted when I was little. I grew up, I lived the life towards this. I made my mistakes, but I learned from them and I put myself here yeah but the academy.

Speaker 2: 29:40

I wasn't hired before I interviewed. I got myself to this point and to see him be proud of me like that, it like broke me and like I could dude, I couldn't look at him in the crowd. He pinned me and I couldn't look at him. You know, it was just such a proud moment for me to see that from my dad yeah, you know.

Speaker 1: 29:57

Well, you got to think. Your dad too, man, I mean to watch his son accomplish so many different things. I mean, that's all we want as parents is to see your kids live out their dreams. And here you are and he gets to pin you on. That's a pretty cool moment. Oh, it was amazing.

Speaker 2: 30:09

And I absolutely loved it. Like I was like this is cool, this is where I need to be, yeah, and I was always like a fun kid. I loved the party scene. I liked being social, I liked being at events, I like things. And so, you know, when I started out doing the job, I absolutely loved it. You know, it was like I wanted to take people to jail, I wanted to get in car pursuits, I wanted to get drugs, I wanted to do and make that difference, you know.

Speaker 2: 30:35

But I also wanted to do things that are unorthodox for cops, which is like show up to events unannounced where it's like, hey, we're going to the cinco de mayo festival where, like, they fucking hate us, right, yeah, and in that area it was in an area of Santa Rosa, that's like they don't like us. Let's just be honest. Yeah, and at the beginning of my shift I told my buddy I was like we're going right, so we went there. It turns out, dude, like I got shoved so many churros. I ran out of stickers within three minutes. Like I uh took photos of the mariachi band. They dressed me up like dude, it was a great time.

Speaker 2: 31:08

Like I loved it because it was a community event that wasn't planned for social media purposes. It was just we showed up and policing. And we showed up and we were like, dude, we're just here to have a good time. And we just told people that we're like, yeah, we're just here to have fun, yeah, enjoy it. You know, have fun, yeah, enjoy it, you know. And so, like what you do, that's what I like to do, was I like to go to these events and just have fun with it when it's not something that's been tasked, pre-planned and tasked?

Speaker 1: 31:31

see, I feel that mentality that you have with that would completely change our country if departments started absorbing that, allowed cops to be people. People because we're. We don't look as cops, as people the cops are cops right and that's well.

Speaker 1: 31:50

It's a fucking cop. Yeah, instead of oh dude, there's officer peterson like come do a barbecue and swing by, come out back, which I've seen. I have buddies that are in communities and it's like that, but it's very rare. But when it is, it's, it's incredible because the community knows and then even the guys that are iffy on fences they know you're, you're, you're kind of down with the, the, the community, so they don't fuck with you and you get way.

Speaker 2: 32:16

I feel you would get way more respect that way than just coming in swinging your badge around acting like 100, because everyone knows, like, when you show up to an event, it's like a planned thing, it's very like hey, we're going to set up a booth, we're going to do this, we're going to have that, so it's it when it's a natural thing yeah one.

Speaker 2: 32:33

You have so much more fun. People are so much more relaxed, open way, more open and um. So you know, I went through training. I did all that. Um the field training was different because now I'm 21 years old, going to domestic violence calls.

Speaker 1: 32:49

Okay, so what was your first day on the as a sworn in police officer? Do you remember your first day?

Speaker 2: 32:57

Oh yeah, so like I had been. So it was in Gurnville, which is the armpit of Soma County. Okay, it's wet, soggy, cold. Everyone out there has got MRSA, everyone's got poison Oak. Just miserable dude. It's horrible. I had never been there before work and I'm like this place sucks Like the map. You can look on the map and you see roads, but then you look up and it's a golf cart size path and it is fucked up Like we're talking. Asphalt's gone, there's tree roots growing up And's like that's a road really yeah, I mean it's in the middle of nowhere.

Speaker 2: 33:25

It's in the redwoods, it's everything. Everything's wet, cold, damn. The people are miserable, homeless population is through the fucking roof, okay, and everyone out there's dirty, just filthy. They have poison oak because they live in the woods, mrsa from just not being clean, drugs, everything just open, needles grow gross. So this is your first day.

Speaker 2: 33:45

First day I'm driving and my FTO super sarcastic, super funny and has lived out there for his career. That's where he works, right. So he knows everyone, knows everything and he's very, very well known and very well respected. And so I tell him I'm like, yeah, I've never been out here. He's like the road and the other thing, you're looking at your map, the computer on the thing up is down, down is up, left is right and right is left. Okay, so if you're not used to that, you're looking and you it's all fucked up, especially in an area you don't know.

Speaker 2: 34:15

And so we're driving out there and it's a tiny little town right on the river, right on the russian river, and uh, so we're going out there and stuff like that. And he's talking to me. I was like, yeah, I've never been out here, I don't know this area. I said, cool, we're gonna drive around, get familiar with the area we're driving through and, um, right out of the rip, we're turning left to go to the substation. We're in the middle of main street and the town is like a block right and we're turning left. As we're left, there's a homeless dude walking across the intersection and he rolls down his window. Day one, I don't know shit, I don't know anything. Day one he rolls his windows down. He's like Chino, go fucking kill yourself. And I'm like what the fuck is going on? This is a total joke. And the homeless guy is just waving, happy as can be, and I'm like what the fuck am I doing? And I'm like, okay, all right, and so he doesn't say anything.

Speaker 1: 35:04

This wasn't in the academy. No, this was not in the academy at all.

Speaker 2: 35:09

And so I'm like, all right, this is wild. And so we get to the substation and, as a trainee, you get your own separate room, away from everyone. That's just the way. It is right. The culture is hey, you're your own report writing room. You're going to be over there, okay, while deputies in here are going to do their thing, yeah, and so, because you're not like one of the guys, you're not.

Speaker 1: 35:28

Yeah, you've earned your stripes, yet.

Speaker 2: 35:29

You haven't earned anything, which I'm totally good with. I love that. You know. You got to earn your way, you know.

Speaker 2: 35:35

And so the first day, keep in mind, like the police internship taught me how to search someone, taught me how to handcuff, someone taught me how to run someone out for record search. So like I could theoretically do a full traffic stop flawlessly. And I remember the first traffic stop shit the bed, completely shit the bed. And I knew it. I knew how to talk on the radio, I knew what I was doing, but I just threw up into the mic, Like I just word vomit into the mic, completely, butchered it, and I'm like that's not like me at all. But the reality was like I stopped this guy, I had red and blue lights, I'm doing it for the first time and I'm getting out and I looked down and I'm wearing tan and green and there's a gun on my hip and I'm like whoa, the reality just sank in. And so I go up, I get the person's license something I can do in training, no problem and so I get the person's license, completely butcher that, wreck it. I'm like holy shit, Like I don't know how to do anything. I'm questioning everything. I'm like what is going on, dude? And so it's really rough.

Speaker 2: 36:32

My first day was super rough. The first person I ever searched he told me himself. The suspect I was so excited to search him cuffed him up. He's on probation search terms. Yeah, let's do it. Cuffed him up. He's on probation search terms. Yeah, let's do it. Cuffed him up. I'm searching him. He stops me. The suspect stops me. He's like hey, bro, you might want to put gloves on. He's telling me that while I'm searching him, I'm like why? And he like does this? Because he's got a bandana around his chin. He like does this? And he pulls his bandana down. He's got this huge hole in his chin, like right here, that's mursa. And he's like hey, got MRSA, man, you might want to glove up. I'm like see you later. Uncuff him, throw him like just get out of here. And I immediately go drink a bottle of hand sanitizer. I'm dumping it all over my uniform. What the fuck is this? I was like I'm never coming back to this place again. And so this is day one.

Speaker 1: 37:20

Day one. I'm like holy shit, this is going to be the longest four weeks. This is brutal.

Speaker 2: 37:24

And so we go about training out there and, sure enough, like everyone I touch, poison, oak, mrsa, uncapped needles just disgusting. And one of the first experiences I ever dealt with, someone that was like super high on meth was out there and he's in his boxers and he's swimming in the mud, like on the side of a freeway, swimming in the mud trying to get away from great white sharks, and he is swimming like he's in the Olympics in a puddle and so we go cuff him up. He's just hey, great whites are after me, they're right behind me, this and that. And I'm like what is going on? Like this is the first time I've seen someone super high on meth. So we do the whole bounce them out. We have a bounce them out. Uh, we do like a bunch of tests to determine, like, if you're under the influence of an amphetamine.

Speaker 1: 38:10

So like we look at your pupils, you know like, hey, close your eyes, count to 30 I mean, you can't just look at this dude laying in a puddle and I wish you could clearly on something everyone says that like he's high as shit right, yeah but paperwork reasons, legal reasons, okay, we have a bunch of tests we can do and half the time, like they're so spun out that you can get through a portion of the test, yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:30

And then you just document like hey, I can't do it due to him being super all over the place, but you bounce them out a little bit. So bounce them out is just hey, count to 30 in your head and it's like this I'm done Right, and this I'm done Right. And then his pupils, they're going to be blown out and he can't sit, still, can't look at you, can't do anything. Um, so we do that. I have a photo of it somewhere. Like I'm just sitting next to him on the side of the road and I look like a child, I look like I shouldn't be there, and, um, I'm sitting there and I got this face, I got this look on my face. I'm like dude, what the fuck is this? And so we go about it, dude, and we go to jail. And I remember this is a couple weeks into it and I'm searching this guy. I know what I'm doing, I'm doing it, I'm just slow because I'm still learning, but I know I run his, I run him. He's on probation search terms. He's homeless, he's got a backpack bike, all this shit. And we're in downtown gurnville and I'm taking my time. I'm searching. I got a meth pipe cool, he's going to jail. I need the practice. We're in downtown Guerneville and I'm taking my time. I'm searching. I got a meth pipe Cool, he's going to jail. I need the practice. We're going to write the report, look into evidence, do all of that. Well, I find the meth pipe. I keep searching.

Speaker 2: 39:33

My FTO gets bored and he's like you're taking too long. And he gets in the car, drives away, just drives to the station and his partner my partner, he's sitting there and he's just sitting there. He's like well, that's kind of fucked. And I'm like I get, I was like I didn't say anything, cause what am I going to say? Yeah, I'm like, okay, cool. And then he's like here, load the guy up in my car. So I load the guy up in his car, he's like all right, see you later, drives off. And so they're like we'll see you at the station. They made you walk. Yeah, they had to walk with this dude's bike all the way to the police department. Luckily, it's only like half a block, a block, but I'm still walking through town pushing this dude's backpack and bike. So I get to the station, he's all sitting in the waiting room, cuffed up, and they're just typing. They're sitting in the report writing room. So I go about, do my business. We take him to jail this and that. So that was like my first ever experience was like out in this place. That was just a shithole and it was just dirty. I hated it, didn't want to be there ever again.

Speaker 2: 40:30

And then you go through phases where you go to different areas of the county okay, different shifts. So you get used to everything and get familiar with the whole county. How big is the county? Oh, square mile wise, I don't know how big it is, but it's. It's large. I mean it would probably be the equivalent of like Boise County. Okay, it's large. Okay, um and uh. So you bounce around, different shifts, different FTOs, field training officers, yep, um, so you can get familiar with everything, um, and then one of them is was out in Sonoma, which is where I grew up. So I go into this one. So you're excited, I'm excited, dude.

Speaker 1: 41:02

I know the people, I know the deputies, I know the area Like this is my home dude Like I can get around.

Speaker 2: 41:10

And so I get out there and I get paired with a field training officer To this day favorite deputy I've ever worked with, the Hector Rodriguez. Absolutely love him, he's a good dude and so he's my training officer. Yeah, and so he's my training officer. I tell him like, yeah, I was out in the river, I was out in Rohnert Park. You know, this is what I think I need to work on. Blah, blah, blah. He's like cool and this deputy loved taking people to jail. Like, hey, we're going out, we're getting into the shit, we're going to get guns drugs stolen cars.

Speaker 2: 41:40

Okay, he likes to ride the gray. So like ride the gray means he knew everything about case law right, and so he knew every case that came out that made a new law. And so he's like this is what we can and can't do. And he knew it so well to the point where he's like this is kind of a gray area, but we'll make it work. To the case law. And it was amazing to learn from him because, dude, it was so fascinating and I feel like that's what makes a good cop, because you can walk that line because you knew when you were completely in the right and in the wrong.

Speaker 2: 42:08

If you have the knowledge and you were confident with, like I know I got this guy did the rights, I can do X, y, z and I'm okay, dude, you go about it so much differently, really, if you're unsure like hey, I don't know if I can detain him, I don't know what I can detain them, I don't know what I got this and that you're going to double, you're going to question everything.

Speaker 1: 42:28

Second, guess things give, because then if you're wrong you're, you're liable yeah, yeah, then they now they now you're. You're held responsible for the court case because you illegally detained or arrested somebody.

Speaker 2: 42:38

Yep okay, it can get thrown out.

Speaker 1: 42:40

Which blows my mind that I feel for police officers that should be one of the biggest priorities is learning the laws inside and out, Because you see these auditors right, these Second Amendment auditors and they chew these cops up and I'm like, bro, just shut the fuck up.

Speaker 2: 43:01

What are you doing? We have these ongoing trainings. I don't think people understand that. You're in school as a cop. You're in school and you get trainings monthly, if not weekly. You got some sort of hey, this is a new law that came out. You got to acknowledge it, read it, and it's just a constant learning environment.

Speaker 2: 43:19

Yeah, whether it be first aid, all the way to new case law and everything in between, we're getting updated. At least in California, that's how it is Got it. You know and you really see, like all these police videos online, it's always in the South, it's always somewhere far away. This and that it's a rural area and it's like. You see that. And then I have an appreciation like wow, california is really on top of case law and what we can and can't do, whereas other parts of the country I don't think it's like that yet. So, in a good, in a lot of ways, california peace officers are like the highest standard, just because of the trainings that we have and what we're. What we have available to us for sure is what other states.

Speaker 1: 44:00

I would say the volume of just interactions of people you're dealing with is yeah, I mean good Lord.

Speaker 2: 44:08

You meet everyone under the sun. You meet famous people, you meet homeless people, you meet everything in between. You know, and that was something. So, yeah, but getting back to the like, riding the gray and stuff like that if you know case law and you know what you can and can't do, you're confident in a traffic stop or confident in a pedestrian stop. Yeah, life is much easier for you because you know exactly what you can and can't do.

Speaker 2: 44:32

And so this is what this deputy was good at was like he knows exactly what he can and can't do. And you'd be shocked at the amount of times people will just give you consent. Oh yeah, even when they got stuff in the car, like it's mind blowing. They're like, yeah, go ahead and search the car, you pop the trunk and there's meth. And you're like what are you thinking? Like there's a pound of meth right here. He's like all you had to do is say no, yeah, all you gotta do is say no, you know, but it and so going with him, it was quite the experience because he knew everyone. He was like this dude's on parole, that guy's got a warrant, this guy, and it was just like stop, stop, stop, jail, jail, jail site. Like it was so fast.

Speaker 1: 45:12

Really so fast-paced.

Speaker 2: 45:13

I loved it, really Thrived and I'll never forget it. This is where I like earned my stripes a little bit, okay, and I'm so thankful Like I thanked him after this. So we got a call for this guy who's being an asshole. He was sleeping in some random guy's truck bed in a McDonald's parking lot and just being an ass. The guy's like, hey, I don't know who this is, get him out of my truck. And so we go there. My FTO is like, yeah, hisdates this, he's on probation.

Speaker 1: 45:42

He just knows these people, he just knows everyone it's wild.

Speaker 2: 45:45

And so, sure enough, I pull him up, confirm his ID photo he's drunk, he's a complete ass, and he's still laying in the truck. And I go up there and I'm like, hey, man, you gotta get out of the truck. And he's like, ah, fuck you. And he's drunk. He's like dude, get out of the truck. No, fuck you. I'm like cool, I grabbed him by his ankles and I yank him straight out. I just yank him straight out of the truck 100% Would have been my only option, we're done, and so as soon as we do that, the fight's on.

Speaker 2: 46:14

This is the first time I've ever been in a fight like on duty, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 46:29

And I'll never forget it. I caught out of the corner of my eye my FTO standing like right there next to me just watching it happen. And my partner pulls up and the partner starts running over to me and he just puts his arm out. He's like no, he's got to do this Really. And I literally, and I caught it and I was like fuck, yeah, sick. So I handled my business. I cuffed him up, threw him back in the car. Fight was good, everything's legit. Get in the car, close the door, turn the cameras off. I was like thank you, that was cool. He's like, yeah, you got to Got to learn. You got to know how to do it by yourself.

Speaker 1: 46:56

Yeah, you got to cut your teeth in, you know. Yeah, I got this. So when you're fighting somebody, I feel as a cop. Is it scarier fighting somebody as a cop than like in a normal street fight? Because I mean, you're kitted out, which isn't easy to fight somebody, and then they're not kitted out, which makes life even harder. If they're drawn high, they're just off the wall, like nothing affects them.

Speaker 2: 47:25

Yeah, I would say, yeah, it's harder, um, because you got a bunch of shit that, like one, your radio goes flying, your camera goes flying, so you got wires and shit going around you try to tuck them in as best you can, um, but yeah, I mean it's you don't move as well, you're worried about your gun you don't want someone getting your gun well, at the same time, like I've tried to explain, because I've done a lot of security and moving people without hurting people type of deal, it's very hard and I I explain this to the people all the time like detaining somebody or fighting somebody without trying to hurt them.

Speaker 1: 47:57

Yeah, it's very, very difficult and I feel that's every cop, because you just you you'll see videos, you know, you've seen cops. Just, they're just they're street fighting, yeah, but it's it's, it's tough. I mean, did you notice that or is it more of like a grappling you weren't having? No, really like we're not.

Speaker 2: 48:16

We're not forcefully trying to hurt people yeah, for sure but we are trying to distract them and pain is a very good distraction, so like if I punch you in the gut, you're going to be focused on, like I just lost my breath, right?

Speaker 2: 48:27

got it so we focus on like hey, I'm not going to punch you straight in the face unless I absolutely have to. Yeah, I'm not going to jam my hand in your throat, you know. But you focus on areas that's going to be distraction. So like if I slap you in the face or if I hit you in the face like that, that's an immediate distraction. Immediate distraction where I can focus on getting your hands.

Speaker 1: 48:44

You're more open palm strikes.

Speaker 2: 48:46

So you're doing stuff, open palm strikes. We're not doing like closed fists and just wailing on someone, like that. Obviously you gotta do what you gotta do in the fight. Um, you know you can use elbows, you can use that stuff, um, but it's more distractionary. Blows, um, and I think a lot of the times what happens is like when you're fighting, it's dynamic, it's not like someone's stationary For sure. So, like, what happens is like when you're fighting and you're shooting for like, hey, I'm going to hit this guy across the cheek right or something like that, and he's moving, he does this and goes straight in and you break his face. That it's like it wasn't my intention, right, but that's what the end result was. Yeah, that's what the end result was. Yeah, you know, and like, I got a story that's exactly that. But so it's not directly to just cause pain and that's it. It's more distraction based and that is the goal to get someone into handcuffs, right, it's just to do that, you know.

Speaker 2: 49:35

And there's control techniques that we can use. Are they effective sometimes? But joint manipulation, risk manipulation, all that kind of stuff, yeah, and that's like sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. You just never know, depends on how high. They are yeah, 100%, yeah and uh. So you just try what you can and some things work.

Speaker 2: 49:50

Sometimes they don't you know, and so you just kind of have to flow with eat and then, probably like two hours later, I was like I'm ready for bed, like I'm exhausted. You know and that's the other part of it too is no one wins in a fight. So yeah, I got them, I cuffed them up, went to jail. My elbows are all scuffed up, my knees are all scuffed up Raspberries everywhere Shit dude, so bad.

Speaker 2: 50:16

But you know, no one ever wins in a fight but that adrenaline dump and you don't. It's so easy to get that tunnel vision and just focusing on like where his hands are, where his face is doing, and so to have that clarity to see what's around you is really hard sometimes because you want to focus on that person so bad.

Speaker 1: 50:33

Do they teach you in the academy, or is it just become more natural when you're detaining somebody and you're fighting somebody as a law enforcement officer? I mean you're, I feel you're just focused on hands, on hands like are you watching and seeing if they're trying to grab? Is that a?

Speaker 2: 50:52

big fear, like if you're hand to hands with somebody kill. Yeah, okay, hands will kill. Um, eyes are another good thing. So eyes, feet, positioning where their feet are, is where they're going to go. Um, so like if you're sitting down and there's a suspect, you're sitting to him and his feet are kind of pointed to the door.

Speaker 2: 51:06

They're like he's going to go to that door, Like that's where he's instinctively wanting to go, you know, and if his eyes are just looking at you up and down, he's. He's scouting you out, he's seeing where I can go, he's sizing you.

Speaker 2: 51:15

Yeah and so like, but the hands, it's a huge goes. You have no idea where it's going to go and what it's going to produce. Right, and the amount of times where cops get caught off guard with things because they lose sight of that. You know, like deputy took off after someone and while the guy was running he just did this and he didn't, he didn't pay attention, didn't focus on it. Guy ditches a gun right there like minute, second, like millisecond, before he gets tackled by the deputy, but he didn't even see the gun, had no clue, no shit. You know, and it's like cause you lose sight of that. But it's like it's so hard to keep in tune with the hands what they're doing, especially if they're fighting, where those hands are going, like is his hand going for my gun or is it going for his gun? You have no idea. You know you've got to watch the hands, got to watch what they're doing. You know how they're looking at you. Are they bouncing around? Is their knee shaking, like subtle things like that will tell you so much.

Speaker 1: 52:15

And every time you're arresting somebody or every time you're having an interaction with somebody, you're picking and learning all these human behaviors.

Speaker 2: 52:22

Yeah, you know, and it's like before you know it, when you're talking to someone, you're like, hey, man, keep your hands out of your pocket. You know, can you just interlock your hands and put them in front?

Speaker 1: 52:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 52:31

Something simple like that, like do just do something so that your hands are their hands are visible. Yep, you know. So, yeah, but you're constantly learning, constantly saying things, and you learn from experiences, some good, some bad, you know, and so it's just, it's just the time under doing the job that happens.

Speaker 1: 52:49

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2: 52:55

But yeah, I mean going through training. That was my first fight Graduated on my own, the first solo shift, my very first day solo. I was playing racquetball with my dad that morning and I had grave shift that night. It was my first solo shift, no training officer, just me in the car on my own shift with my own deputies. Like that first day You're big boy now.

Speaker 1: 53:14

Yeah, exactly, okay.

Speaker 2: 53:16

And that morning I was playing racquetball with my dad and I got a racket to the face, split my eyebrow open, split it wide open, eight stitches and I was just bleeding down the face. I was like I don't know what to do. Do I call in?

Speaker 2: 53:25

I can't call in on my first day. And so I ended up going to work and I have briefing and I got this big old goose egg with eight stitches sticking out, introduce myself this and that, and I'm like what the fuck? And so we're talking, we go through briefing, I introduce myself, meet the guys and then we all go our separate ways. So you go out and you go to your patrol, beats your area, your zones, and I remember I got in the car and I was silent. There was no one there and I'm just sitting there and I sat in the back lot for an hour. I was like I don't know what to do Really. Yeah, no clue, cause I'm used to having an FTO. I was like, hey, we're going to go get coffee. Hey, we're going to go here first. Hey, we're going to do that. But I sat in the car in silence Like what do I do, right? You?

Speaker 1: 54:09

eventually just like creep out of the parking lot.

Speaker 2: 54:13

I'm like I'm going to go this way. I crept out. I'm like, well, fuck, all right. I so then I just started making arrests on my own, found a lot of drugs, found a lot of like, found a lot of stuff. I mean, it was like every person I talked to I was taking you to jail, like I just wanted that experience. Really, I was just like jail, jail, jail, jail.

Speaker 2: 54:36

But I was a bad beat partner, because what you need is like, if there's two people in a beat, you got to split the calls for service or go to the calls together, handle it and take care of each other. You got to split the calls for service or go to the calls together, handle it and take care of each other. Okay, but I was so happy to be on my own and so focused and excited to do things that I kind of lost track of my partner and I would just like take people to jail and I'd come in at the end of the night with like 10 arrests, right, and I'd be like, fuck, yeah, that's cool, and I'd sit down and write reports all night. Well, my partner was handling calls and so it was a learning environment where I got my ass chewed out a couple times. They're like, dude, what the fuck you doing? You're not taking care of your partners. This and that. Okay, there's a learning curve and I was like, okay, I gotta settle into my role.

Speaker 1: 55:13

This is what I'm expected you can't just go trying to change the world all on your own. No, okay.

Speaker 2: 55:18

So, um, there's times and places for that. You communicate with your buddies. You communicate, say, hey, man, like I'm going to go hit this place for a bit, yeah. And they're like, yeah, cool, whatever. And then or you say like, hey, I'm going to go do this, but if a call pops up, I'll answer it.

Speaker 2: 55:33

Yeah, I'll come up, and so there was a learning curve for me to do that and that's where I loved the job, because I was on my own, I got to do things my own way, I got to learn on my own and I thrived Like I loved it. I went to the events. I went to the Cinco de Mayo festival, brought everyone with me. They all probably hated it and uh, but I was loving life. Like I was wearing the sombrero that was like five feet long and uh, but I was loving it, everything about the job. You know, I got transferred out to the city of Sonoma, became one of the traffic guys out there and, um, I had people like thanking me, saying like hey, thank you, you know, I'm glad it's you, robbie. Like I'm glad it's you and not some stranger that shows up to my house, cause I go to houses and I know the people you know, I've arrested people church with.

Speaker 2: 56:20

I got into a fight with a kid I went to church with. Really yeah.

Speaker 2: 56:23

And like a full blown fight, really. Yeah, I passed the bar and I just see him from behind and he's fighting the bouncer. And so I get out totally uncalled like, not called for, service proactive. I was just passing by right time, right place and so I grabbed this kid from behind and I just literally dump them and the fight's on. We're cuffing them up, blah, and I'm fighting them by myself. And the whole bar comes out, of course, because they want to see that. And so I get them cuffed up this and that and I roll them over. I'm like david, what the fuck? He's like robbie. I'm like what are you doing? And so I end up throwing him in the car. I'm like, all right, dude, we got to figure this, the fuck out.

Speaker 2: 56:58

And so I go in, I talk to the bouncer he's causing a bunch of issues fighting the bouncer and obviously he's fighting me. And I'm like, dude, my hands are tied, like if you hadn't fought me, you know, or any cop regardless like you, probably could have gotten out of here with a warning. I was like I gotta take you to jail, dude. And so his brother was there, went to church with his brother. He's like can't you just come with me? And I'm like we're kind of past that, yeah, you know. And so I was like dude, I'm really sorry, like I got to do this and so end up taking him to jail. Um, and he was like dude, there's no hard feelings, blah, blah, blah, this and that, but it was just like at the end of the night he was like I'm glad it was you, yep, you know, and I've had parents where I played little league with their kid, get into fights and I show up and I'm like this is an odd thing.

Speaker 2: 57:43

And, uh, one of the biggest guys out there, biggest dealer. Um, I grew up at his house playing baseball with his son and he was at every little league game, everything under the sun, but he was one of the biggest not biggest, but he was like a pretty prominent dealer in the Valley and I ended up arresting him like God, I don't know how many times. And he to the point where, like he'd messaged me on Facebook like hey, bro, I need your help, can you call me? And I'm like no, absolutely not, really. Yeah, and like I'm like, hey, man, how's Damien doing? Oh, you got in a little bit of trouble here. He's back up in Oregon hiding out. I'm like, hey, this is someone from our area, for sure, you know.

Speaker 2: 58:29

And so it was really nice to have that experience. But yeah, you know, as the years go by and stuff like that, I'm getting a little bit saltier. I notice, like the people like they're hating you know, I get more comments and I lost my identity out in Sonoma where it was like hey, I'm Robbie, I was just, I grew up as Robbie. Out there, everyone knew me as Robbie. It became Robbie the cop and so I had a bunch of people call me and say hey, dude, I need a favor. Hey, man, can you sign my ticket? Hey, dude, you know, I kind of lost my identity of Robbie, the people that everyone knew, and I became Robbie the cop.

Speaker 1: 59:06

So like.

Speaker 2: 59:07

I became the call, the call center for people if they needed help, advice or they needed a favor. And then I also noticed that, like if I went out on my days off, I wouldn't go to the bars, I wouldn't do that. But, um, I noticed that on my days off, if I went out to the grocery store, this, and that I'd get looks and I'd be like, hey, you're the cop right, hey, you're the cop. So like I kind of was starting to lose my identity of what I was out there. And then it was associated with the badge and uniform and to the point where I was like, you know, this place kind of sucks. Like I'm not enjoying this as much. You know, like my hometown it wasn't enjoyable because I lost who I was, you know, and I didn't really think anything of it, and it was.

Speaker 2: 59:46

It was such a gradual thing that it wasn't happening overnight, but it was happening to the point where I was like, ah, whatever, I'm going to associate with my kind, I'm going to associate with deputies, um, we're going to party and drink on our Friday nights and do that and kind of isolate myself from the public. Okay, and um, you know, know, so I did my time in sonoma. Um, how long did you do there? I did two years there, okay, two, two and a half years somewhere like right around there, yep and um. And then I moved back out to the west sonoma county, which was rural wine country. A lot of meth, a lot of uh weed grows, um, a lot of rural areas with, like, people that don't want to be seen or heard of.

Speaker 2: 1:00:28

And definitely don't want to deal with a cop. Yeah and so, which was a great place. I loved it out there, loved going to calls. I liked it a lot. We had our regulars.

Speaker 1: 1:00:39

Did you like that more? Yeah, because you're able to make a different. You're not Robbie anymore, like from the town. Do you like that more? Yeah, because you're you're able to make a different. You're not robbie anymore like from the town. Do you like that? Nobody knows you.

Speaker 2: 1:00:49

It was nice that nobody knew me, okay, um, to an extent like it was nice because I would often show up to calls and people knew me. And there was like hey, we're done, like you got it. Whatever you say, dude, sorry, this and that. Um, because they knew me, got it. Whereas, like going out to some place where no one knew me and stuff like that, they just saw a deputy. They're like yeah, you know, get fucked. Okay, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:01:09

Like I had the respect from sonoma, where people knew me and they're like, yeah, all right, like if you're serious about it, then we'll, yeah, do this differently. But west county it was just, yeah, hey, cop, no personal connections behind it at all, um and uh. But out there is where I kind of started to get really salty towards people. Um, because people were hatred like just people were very miserable okay, so that started to wear on you.

Speaker 2: 1:01:38

Yeah, it started wearing on me and I wouldn't really think anything of it. You know, and like a big thing that cops do is they drink. You know, it's kind of like the social norm to do is just drink. So if you get a bad call or something like that, you joke about it and you drink, you know. Or you get off work and you have drinks and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 1:01:55

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:01:56

And I got exposed to more and more calls where I'm like, wow, people are really fucked up, like what was some of the stuff that you're seeing now, that you're like, okay, this is a different world? Well, it was a different world, was, um? We had one of the like the longest standing murders, unsolved murders in the county um, and it was called, like, the gender homicides. It happened a long, long time ago, but it was basically this young couple, totally innocent in life. They decided to go sleep on the beach, which, totally cool, you, you can go do that. So they pitched a tent, sleep on the beach, got randomly killed in the middle of the night, shot boom, boom and no rhyme or reason, no attachments, nothing, just unsolved random couple. And it was an unsolved murder. It was first shift, like not first shift, but first thing of the night, first call of the night.

Speaker 2: 1:02:49

We're sitting in briefing, mom calls 911. We're all sitting there, there's like eight of us, nine of us, and mom calls 911. Hey, my sons are fighting in the house, and one's threatening to kill the other one, blah, blah, blah. So we're like, oh shit, okay, this is cool this. And one's threatening to kill the other one, blah, blah, blah. So we're like, oh shit, okay, this is cool, this is unfolding and they're fighting blah, blah, blah. Son's going to go get a gun and kill him. He just left the house. Boom, boom. You just hear like the shots on the radio.

Speaker 2: 1:03:15

Not on the radio but, like on the 911 call, she's like starts screaming and she's like, yeah, my son just shot my other son and he just took off. He's in a black Toyota pickup, whatever it was, and this and that. And so we're like, whoa, this is fucking legit. So we all get into the cars and it's just a sea of red and blue and we're driving down the road going a hundred miles an hour, and we're driving down this road. It's kind of in the country, it's, it's in my zone, it's in my zone, it's in my beat. And so I'm thinking I'm second in line in the cars, like I'm, it's one dude me and then like five or six others, and so this is like a pretty legit thing.

Speaker 2: 1:03:51

Car was seeing going westbound to gurnville, which is that shithole. So they informed the deputies out there like hey, look out for a black toyota pickup. And, um, I'm second on scene. So it's literally it's a house. That's on a second story.

Speaker 2: 1:04:07

So you got stairs, garages underneath, so you got stairs coming up the side of the house and then the front door and so my partner and I are walking up, running up the stairs together and the door's open and my partner runs in as I'm coming in it like freezes in the doorframe for me and I see my partner drag a body out and um tear open his shirt, mom's screaming hysterical in the kitchen and there's no medical, nothing's on scene, it's just me and my partner and um I like freeze for like split second. I'm like, wow, this is fucking crazy. And this is like the first unnatural dead body I've seen. Unnatural meaning like fell asleep, didn't wake up um, and I'm like, holy shit, this is like the first unnatural dead body I've seen. Unnatural meaning like fell asleep, didn't wake up um, and I'm like, holy shit, this is wild so you haven't dealt with a murder body yet no, okay, so this is the first time.

Speaker 2: 1:04:52

And so we go in and the guy had taken a round of the face, taken around to the chest, and you would think that, like the movies make it look so much more dramatic. Like you get around to the face, it blows your face off. It just looks like he got the shit kicked out of you Right. His whole left side was swollen. Like obviously it just looked. It looked bad, but it was just like that's not what I would expect out of getting shot in the face and in close range.

Speaker 2: 1:05:17

And um, so he tears his chest open. He's got a hole in his chest right here and I moved myself to the head and we're going to swap off with CPR and he starts doing CPR compressions and I'll never forget it, dude, it looked like SpaghettiOs, like every pump, every chest compression pumped SpaghettiOs out of this guy's chest and it was like red SpaghettiOs coming out. Really, it just looked like that coming out. I'm like what the fuck is that? And it was the first time I'd ever seen anything like really, so like, really stuck with me. And so we're doing chest compressions and every single time the shit's just coming out, just coming out, and so medics get there. They do stint, like they put a stint in the leg, this and that he's dead and he's gone. Uh, meanwhile they catch the suspect, the brother, the brother. How old are these brothers? They're probably like late 30s.

Speaker 1: 1:06:04

Oh okay, early, 40s. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 1:06:07

And he's probably 40s, and so they catch him, bring him to detectives, this and that. I don't know how I end up getting roped into it because I'm sitting on scene control for a while and then I get transferred to the main office to go help the detectives, like sit on him, so someone needs to be visibly watching him. Uh, the suspect like an interrogation room, and so I'm sitting there watching a TV monitor and, um, the dude's a creep Like he. Just he creeps you out, weird looking guy, Um, and you can just tell like he's off Right.

Speaker 2: 1:06:40

Well, fast forward. He ends up telling he goes to jail for this. He ends up telling the detectives down the road he's like I know this unsolved murder, Like I know where the gun is, and so they end up solving a murder because he's the one that did it. He's like the bullet casings are going to be in a Coke can on the side of the road at this mile marker. The gun is going to be in this area of the Creek at this mile marker Sure, Shit. The gun is going to be in this area of the creek at this mile marker. Sure as shit. They go out there, they find it and it's all ballistic match.

Speaker 1: 1:07:06

From 10 years prior, 10 plus years, everything was still there. Everything's still there.

Speaker 2: 1:07:10

And so they ended up solving that murder. But that was the first time where I'd seen something fucking hateful. He had no rhyme or reason.

Speaker 1: 1:07:19

It was just a and when his brother got in, an argument yeah brother over fast, you know, like that's wild. Does that start to really open your eyes to how evil we? Are as just people and you start seeing that was that your first like. Look into like, why, like, why why?

Speaker 2: 1:07:36

yeah, 100. You know, I looked at that. I'm like that. You know, like I fought my brother. Yeah for sure, rattle my brother.

Speaker 1: 1:07:41

I'm like oh we put my brother and I got in fist fights and put holes in walls, like fighting, yeah, but I've never gotten to the point where I'm like I'm gonna kill.

Speaker 2: 1:07:45

Oh, we put my brother and I got in fist fights and put holes in walls like fighting, yeah, but I've never gotten to the point where I was like I'm gonna kill them he got to a point one time. Yeah, oh, really yeah, I had to run and hide. Yeah, like I've cracked my brother's dome open, you know, but it was never to the point where I was like I'm gonna purposely go get a gun and kill him you know and um, but yeah, it was the first time I'd ever seen anything like that, like just kind of evil and the way that he was nonchalant about it.

Speaker 2: 1:08:08

After the fact I'm like dude, there's a wire missing there, like something's gone, yeah and uh. So that was the first time that I'd ever seen anything like that. It was just a trip to see that Mm and it didn't really, it didn't immediately affect me, but it always stick. It sticks with me, like to this day I'm. I can put myself in that doorway and see everything that happened, yeah and um, and so you know you go about these things, but as soon as we leave that we got to forget about it. You know you just lock it away. You go about your shift. There's no decompressing. You know you have like if, if you get into a shooting or something like that, you have a decompression thing and you talk about it this and that, but for stuff like that there's nothing. You just say all right, man, I'm 10-8. I'm back on duty, let's go.

Speaker 1: 1:09:01

See, this is where I feel there's two. I I see two different versions of cops responding to like our videos, and feedback is a lot of some cops I don't say a lot, but there's, there's a good chunk when they're like it's not what you see, it's you know, it's the admin that are the biggest stressors. But then there's a huge, another big chunk of the police community. That's hey, like I had to go and deal with all this. I had to zip a kid up in a body bag, I had to help this old lady that fell and smashed her face. And then you go straight back to work again and some people claim that that doesn't bother you. But I feel I would argue that because if you're here, you're doing chest compressions on a dude and he's got SpaghettiOs coming out of a hole in him in his chest, sunken chest wound. You're dealing with that. Then, hey, I'm 1080 or whatever.

Speaker 2: 1:09:49

Your code is back back on the road again and you would, yeah, and then you go do traffic stops like life's normal and then you pull somebody over that has an attitude with you and you're, you're this guy, you have no idea what I just did right.

Speaker 1: 1:10:00

Yeah, I feel like that's what I see. These guys are like nothing I ever saw bothered me. I'm like how?

Speaker 2: 1:10:06

yeah, but here's the thing like are you getting off work and are you drinking, are you joking about it with your buddies late at night?

Speaker 2: 1:10:13

yeah, that's, that's bothering you, that's yeah, you're coping with it, somehow you're coping with it, you know and it's like so many cops, like they see these things and they they one they either just don't talk about it and then they just bury themselves in a bottle like dude. Like I would get off. Thursdays were my friday, the whole shift, we would just go down to um. We'd go down to our union hall and just get shit face Like we would just drink. You know, we get off at 2am. Sometimes we drink till 6am, you know, and it's just it's fun to do in the moment, cause there's no shame in it, there's nothing behind it, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:10:43

Well, there's nothing immediately, but deep down, it's for sure, this is our way of decompressing with what we saw, you know, and, like so many cops, think that that's such a normal thing to do and it's just. You know, before you know it, you're divorced, your kids don't like you, um, I can't tell you how many times I've seen divorces where it's like the wife wakes up and was like I hate you, I hate everything that you've become, and the deputy is sitting there like what the fuck are you talking about? Because you don't realize it.

Speaker 2: 1:11:12

Shears are chipping away at him, Mm-hmm. And so it's like and another thing that I saw, this is wild like this is a son and a father. It was like the mother and father went away on trip. They were gone for like a month, month and a half had their son. He was probably 20s, 30s. They had him watch the house. Well, son overdoses in the car, in the garage and he had been there for like a month.

Speaker 2: 1:11:40

And so like I don't know if anyone's ever talked about it, but like when you die you decompose and like, so all of the stuff inside of you turns to gas and liquid. So like theoretically, if you were to die standing up and stay standing, everything inside of you turns to liquid and gas and goes to the lowest point. Yeah, so your feet would swell up and turn dark purple. And so he died in the truck like slumped over, and so his face had melted into the seat. He was clenching a little meth pipe, but his face had melted into the seat and it was just dark purple and just liquid everywhere.

Speaker 1: 1:12:13

It was filthy.

Speaker 2: 1:12:13

It smelled horrendous. It was the worst smell I've ever smelled in my life and like it took my appetite away. I can't smell Vinax wipes, so like we had these Vinax cleaning wipes.

Speaker 1: 1:12:23

Oh, like alcohol wipes.

Speaker 2: 1:12:25

Okay, and so we got like a big box of them, stick them in the door panel. But I held that to my nose. But now when I smell that instant, instant I'm back in that garage. Sure, but it wasn't the dead body that messed me up. The smell was horrible, the body was horrible. But what messed me up was the father. He came home from a trip to his son dead and the first question he's asking is like when can I get a shit out of the apartment and rent it out again? That's, that's all. Yes, he's like when can I get his stuff out of the apartment? Do I have to a victim? Do can I do anything or just kind of get it out, clean it and rent it out again? This is the father, unfazed, that is that he just came home from a trip to his son dead, unfazed, didn't care. I'm like okay, like you can do whatever you want with the apartment, man like your son's here, you know your son's rotted into this car.

Speaker 2: 1:13:15

Who cares if he's a drug addict or whatever, there's still your son that he was a little like a little boy to you.

Speaker 1: 1:13:19

Yeah, that's your little, that's your little boy, yeah you know, and it's sad to to see, and I feel most people don't ever get to experience those types of situations where I don't want to say it's hate or just lack of empathy or whatever, but when you see, when you're dealing with that, it's like you know. You get in your car and you're like bro, that dad like didn't care, like I'm a son yeah I couldn't imagine my father looking at me and be like oh, when can I get a shit out of?

Speaker 1: 1:13:47

here, so I don't even have kids, and if that was my son, I'd be destroyed Like regardless of the circumstances of his death, if your kid's an addict or not and you've he's been battling it for years Like there was a time you played catch with your son in the front yard, for sure, and that's what I would remember.

Speaker 2: 1:14:04

You know, not even care and just like get him out of here. And when can I clear out his apartment is just wild.

Speaker 1: 1:14:09

I mean, like that's the god, dude, that's where I have to give crops so much. I gotta give cops so much. Credit is because you're dealing with the the, the worst of the worst, and I'm not even talking criminals like something of that type of situation.

Speaker 1: 1:14:28

I'd rather deal with a criminal than that a thousand percent watching you're, you know one, you're gonna help, or yeah, these get this body out of a car, whatever it is. But and on top of it, I mean like you're sitting here dealing with the dead body, then you're watching this father with just zero emotions over a son, it's. I mean. Then you start that's that little stuff I feel would start to chip and chip and chip slowly chipping away and then like you leave that.

Speaker 2: 1:14:50

And then my fdo is like all right, cool, let's go to lunch, and I'm like I can't eat. Yeah, you know like I don't one, because the smell is horrible but it's on you when you're dealing with that shit.

Speaker 2: 1:14:59

So you could, yeah, and it's like you know, and it's just, you immediately go 10-8 and you're going back to service, you're handling calls like no big deal, you completely forget about it, but it slowly chips away and it's like you know, I see people kill themselves. I see people kill themselves, whether it's on purpose, overdose, whatever the reason you know, and it's like it's horrible to see that and then pretend it doesn't happen.

Speaker 1: 1:15:24

It's like a hanging yeah, I feel like if I had like walk in a room and there's somebody hanging there and you got to deal with it and get them down or at least check for pulse. You're looking at a body hanging from a ceiling or whatever it is like.

Speaker 2: 1:15:37

That's not a natural thing I was out in it was like west rural sonoma county and a neighbor found the neighbor, found his neighbor hanging in the tree and, like I pulled into the driveway and it was like a left turn hanging in the tree and he was eight feet long. He had been hanging for so long, he just stretched out, yeah. And so, like I go up to the house and, um, I go inside the house and he had mixed the bowl of cereal, but instead of cereal it was every pill that he had in the house and that's what he was eating. He was just eating that and then he just went out and strung himself up in the tree and he had stretched himself out to like eight feet long. You know, and it's like I it sticks with me because it's like, dude, how what sticks with me the most is like I became empathetic to the point where people were killing themselves and I was like I get it really, like I can understand, because I got to the point where, like I started hating my job, I started hating the people I worked with, what people I worked with, but like I hated showing up to work and I just hated people because every time I would go to a call, it was like fix my problem, and if I can't fix it, fuck you.

Speaker 2: 1:16:45

And so I started getting this hatred for it to the point where, like I would deal with, this is the worst part.

Speaker 2: 1:16:50

Like we had a lot of placement homes for kids and these kids would just get shuffled all over the country and it was just like they got dealt a bad hand, just either they're like delinquents or something's going on, but they would just get shuffled around these homes, like some of them live in Florida and they're in California in some bumfuck nowhere house and they got to stay there and listen to some rules that an 18 year old counselor is saying you got to follow and these kids are killing themselves and they want to kill.

Speaker 1: 1:17:15

Really yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:17:16

Like I remember I went to a call and she's just banging her head against the wall so many times and they weren't stopping her. They're just watching it happen. And they called us and like we can't intervene and meanwhile there's blood coming down the wall and I'm like you can fucking stop this. And so I go in and I just grab her and as soon as I grab her she stops, you know, and it's like I got to the point where I'm like like I feel for you, Like you have a bad hand dealt, You've been shuffled around, you have a feeling of no one wants you. I understand that more than you think't know what they're going to do. Yeah, I guess, Cause it's like you have to protect yourself.

Speaker 1: 1:17:45

Yeah, that's a dad coming out at me.

Speaker 2: 1:17:52

You know a thousand percent you want to hold that person and be like dude. Let me take care of you.

Speaker 1: 1:17:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:18:04

You know, but at the same time it's like, well, are they going to to them in a way that's going to calm them down? Yeah, you know, and it's like as soon as I grabbed that girl and sat her down on the bed, I'm like what's going on? And she's like I just can't do it anymore. You know, and after years of seeing these dead bodies and just seeing how much people are like why the fuck are you here? You know this is miserable. And then your partners talk shit, like your partners are miserable. Like I fucking hate this guy. Why is he getting promoted? He's out for his own benefit. You know, this department, the admin's fucking stupid. They think that this and that, but it's not the reality of it. So everyone's kind of in that negative aspect and you drink and that's the normal thing to get it all out and you just talk shit about everyone and that's the coping mechanism for everything.

Speaker 1: 1:18:52

It's just let's drink and talk shit. I hear the thin blue line doesn't exist. I hear a lot of cops say that.

Speaker 2: 1:18:57

I think the thin blue line has been really blown out of proportion. One, I think it's just like I can't stand it Just in the aspect of like it's encompassed so many cops. And like thin blue line, blue lives matter, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, and it can kind of like. This is just my perspective of it, for sure, um, and I kind of take like a different approach, cause it's the same thing as like black lives matter, which is a hot topic, right, and I'm going to say something that by doing that, you're creating the segregation A hundred percent. You're creating A hundred percent the difference between people, you know. So if we say thin blue, like a thin blue, a blue lives matter, blah, blah, blah, like you're creating a segregation where we're something different than others, when reality that's not how the cage.

Speaker 2: 1:19:42

I chose this job and chose to put this uniform on. It doesn Doesn't make me different than you in any aspect. This just means like, hey, this is just my job, you know, and the like, the Black Lives Matter thing the same thing. By doing that, you're creating that segregation for yourself, for sure. Same thing with the thin blue line, you're creating the segregation where we're something different than you. We're something different.

Speaker 1: 1:20:04

We're something better.

Speaker 2: 1:20:04

Just because it represents something more positive. It represents something better, you know, and it's like I think it came out as a good, positive thing, but I think it's just been blown up quite a bit and then everyone's kind of falling into it.

Speaker 1: 1:20:15

Well, the reason I asked that too is because, like a lot of cops, they say, yeah, we're all boys and we all have each other's back, but the second you anything happens or you're in trouble or eternal affairs is questioning you, they say that it's there you're on your own, dude, that's, that's a thousand percent.

Speaker 2: 1:20:30

It's like yeah, you're in this brotherhood, dude, we got your back through and through. You know I'm your partner, you're my partner, I got you Fuck, man, the second you leave, no one talks to you. No one talks to you. You realize that you're a number on a piece of paper real quick and like you know, it's just like I've been out on injury, even out on injury, like I had a very select few people that showed up and when I retired, and like when I went through the process of going out, man, I was just silent. You know, admin reaches out to you because they're required to. I'd get one phone call a month. Hey, you doing good, yeah, I'm fine, cool, that's it, that's it, that's it. That's fine, cool, that's it, that's it. That's it. That's because they're required to. But as soon as you're off the books, as soon as you're, retired.

Speaker 1: 1:21:12

You don't hear anything. See, I don't want to say the military is any better because you don't hear. Yeah, I mean, that's your, that's it. But I mean the brotherhood is definitely I would feel that's. I mean, dude, I got boys right now. I call them. Hey, we got to bury a body and they're fucking here. I got.

Speaker 2: 1:21:28

I got like my brothers went from 250 strong sworn to maybe three yeah you know, and that's sad it's a dude, it's like.

Speaker 2: 1:21:40

For me when I retired, too, it was a loss of identity. Okay, this is all I ever wanted to do, yeah, you know, and so like, ultimately, what caused me to retire is you. You know, I was dealing with all this stuff. It was slowly chipping away and then George Floyd happened, and I lived in an area that wasn't Oakland, it wasn't Portland, it wasn't, you know, atlanta. It wasn't something crazy, but we still had our protests and, um, what really got me was, you know, the morning of a shift I was day shift working out in Sonoma and there was a little girl like, not much older than you and like just graduated high school and great family, innocent family.

Speaker 2: 1:22:25

And they came home and she was dead in bed and she decided to party for grad night and her boyfriend at the time gave her something and it ended up killing her, and so she was. Her mom found her the next morning naked in bed and we had to go in there. I mean, it was a beautiful home, just like this, you know beautiful family, beautiful home, and it was this little girl that had just graduated high school. So much potential. You saw all the posters on the wall of, like the sports, doing everything, like saying congratulations, and mom screaming and her dad comes home and the family's outside restraining him because he just wants to see his little girl. And you got to deal with this. And it's me and my partner and we're dealing with it like this is fucking stupid. You know like why this person, you know like why do you have to make these dumb decisions in life?

Speaker 1: 1:23:16

and it just causes this because it's not just a little girl.

Speaker 2: 1:23:18

I mean it's not I don't say personal, but I mean you're seeing trophies and pictures and paintings and you can't help but make it personal, yeah, and it's like why this person, you know, and so we deal with that in the morning, and it ended up being personal, like I, it was a family, it was a friend of mine, it was their son's girlfriend and he, they had just broken up and she was dating this other guy and the whole family was like this guy's bad news, please stop, please stop. And ultimately he gave her something that ended up killing her and um, so it ended up being kind of personal for me in the aspect of like I watched this kid grow up. I was like little boy watch him grow up into high school and then have his high school sweetheart just ripped away from him, like that. So, and it it fucked them up for a long time, you know, and so I go from there and then there's this like scheduled protest for George Floyd and um, I'm the traffic guy so I ensure that no one hits them because they're protesting in the middle of the road, and so I lead their protest and I make sure that their own cars are coming and I'm just driving my patrol cars. They protest around me, and it was. It was super calm, peaceful as they protest around me, and it was. It was super calm, peaceful protest, whatever you know. And uh, but what happened was after the protest, the whole day, you know, um, I go home. We have take-home cars.

Speaker 2: 1:24:41

At the time I lived just outside of the city of Sonoma and the way that my house was set up was it was tucked behind another house and so my driveway was a long, skinny driveway to you could see a quarter of my house, okay, and I would pull in to the left and you couldn't see my patrol car, you couldn't see anything. And so that's what I did. I drove home, didn't think anything of it, parked my patrol car so where you couldn't see it, and uh went about my night, went to bed where you couldn't see it, and uh went about my night, went to bed decompressed, had a few decompressed this and that, and, um, I wake up the next day, I go about my business and like, I come outside and there's signs all over my shit, black lives matter, silence is violence, this and that, and it's just everywhere. And uh, I'm like what the fuck's going on here? And it's just everywhere. And I'm like what the fuck's going on here.

Speaker 2: 1:25:31

And so I go out and I'm driving to work. I'm like what's going on? I'm making calls, this and that, so I go out my mailbox is dented in signs all over that it turns into like a bomb threat. They're like don't open your mailbox. And I'm like, well, I've already opened it. And so I pull a print from one of the pieces of tape and this and that, and it turns out to be like a 70, 75% match, whatever to some dude in Oakland. So it wasn't some Sonoma wine country person playing a prank, of course not. It was some dude from Oakland, right. And so I tell the department. I'm like what the fuck? And they didn't. They were like, yeah, here's a security system. They bought that.

Speaker 1: 1:26:10

Cool, great, and they didn't. They're like yeah, here's a security system.

Speaker 2: 1:26:11

They bought that. Cool great. Okay, that's cool at least. And then the neighbor's camera captured a car pulling into my driveway, up to my house at like two in the morning, stopping doing it all and taking off and, um, you know, everyone's thing is like I wish someone would show up to my house, blah, blah, like I got a gun for him. Cool man, that's fine. But when the reality of that actually happens, it's so much more personal, it's so much more sensitive to you. Yeah, absolutely. When someone truly hates what you do for work enough to find you and follow you home and mess with you, it becomes a really personal thing, really quick and you're just I mean dude, I'm just existing yeah, you're just.

Speaker 1: 1:26:54

You're just doing something that you thought you were going to love your whole entire life and everything I want to give back to your community and now you're hated, just I'm just, I'm slowly hating it.

Speaker 2: 1:27:04

I'm slowly seeing like dude people either want a favor from me. I'm robbie the cop. I'm seeing all these dead bodies. I've been seeing hatred from people that I've never seen before. Um, there's no way for me to decompress from this. I just got to put it away, drink with my boys, talk shit, this and that you know, and then to have someone personally come after me and say like we fucking hate you.

Speaker 2: 1:27:27

And just because I chose a job, because my uniform isn't tsa, because my uniform isn't a staples uniform, a safeway uniform, it just happens to be a cop's uniform. That's the only reason. And I'm like that's cool man. Like you have no idea who the fuck I am. Yeah, you know. And so that's where I started getting really angry and that's where I isolated. I wouldn't leave my house. Um, I started drinking, I started drinking, I started drinking a lot more, like I'd get off shift and on my way home I'd crush six, seven beers Like driving, just crushing beers Really, and I didn't think anything of it. You know, like it just became the norm, it became the normal and, like you know, I'd get off work with my buddies on a am, drink until 6 am, cruise on home, go to bed, go to shift the next day.

Speaker 1: 1:28:10

Really Same thing, and that became the norm.

Speaker 2: 1:28:13

That was normal. Like a normal night for me was eight, 10 Coors Lights, a couple shots of tequila.

Speaker 1: 1:28:23

You're getting up doing it again the next day, every day.

Speaker 2: 1:28:26

I'd get off work on my Friday, take my personal car home and I'd stop at the gas station, pick up a case of beer and, as I'm driving home, I'm just drinking, and then that's the only way I would be able to go to bed. Really so like I would drink myself into the point where I was like, yeah, all right, I'm tired, I'm going to go to bed. It would pass out for a couple hours wide awake.

Speaker 2: 1:28:44

How long did this go on for? Dude went on for months, like I. So this is kind of where I was. Like it went on for months. I noticed I was really starting to hate my job, I was starting to hate people around me and it got to the point where I was like becoming unsafe for everyone. So like I stopped wearing my vest.

Speaker 2: 1:29:01

I would just wear my uniform, no vest underneath really fuck it yeah really, and I'd put myself in situations like, hey, if this is, this is where I get hurt, I'm going to get hurt Because it was easier for me to say that than say like, hey, something mentally is going on with me.

Speaker 1: 1:29:15

Were you realizing this or were you still?

Speaker 2: 1:29:18

Well, I had a moment, and it was. I was working in Sonoma and I had a moment where I had been dealing with this idiot all day. He was homeless, he wasn't from the area and it was like a week straight of dealing with this dude. Every fucking day he was stealing something, causing issues Like we have a bike store in downtown Sonoma and they would put all their bikes out in front for sale, right, and he'd just go over and knock them all over Like just the jackass, right. And he has no family, no ties to Sonoma. He's like this is a good place for me to settle down, hated it, and At the time he was living in an old warehouse that used to be a car dealership and he had made it his own little place With all this stolen shit from everyone in the valley.

Speaker 2: 1:29:58

And one day sure enough, I can't like someone calls in hey, this dude stole my bike. I have camera footage, cool, mail it to me. Emails it, sure enough, I see the guy. Cool, I'm like I know exactly who this is. So I go. I find him sitting in the park drinking and I'm like I rest him. I don't have proof, like I don't have the bike. He doesn't have the bike, it's just camera footage.

Speaker 2: 1:30:18

So I just hook him up, I bring him back to the station. I'm like, hey, man, where's the bike I got? I got to show him the video. It back. Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, cool, go get it.

Speaker 2: 1:30:25

And so I let him go and I have a ticket. I give him the ticket and I say I'm going to hold onto this ticket. If you bring the bike back, it'll go away. And so I literally and it was fake ticket because I had nothing on him and um, so he's like, all right, cool, I'm going to go get it.

Speaker 2: 1:30:46

And so an idiot, like he starts walking and I wait 10 minutes, get my car and I just follow him. Like he's walking through the park and I'm just cruising behind him. He doesn't see me, nothing. So I follow him and I follow him all the way to this old abandoned car dealership and so finally I see I wait till he goes inside, park my patrol car walk in the same way he does. And, sure enough, I go inside. There's a stolen Bluetooth speaker that I took a report of the day before. There's a stolen bike. There's another stolen item that I had to deal with and it was all the shit just piled up right there and he made this like little center collage thing Like a shrine of all this stolen shit.

Speaker 1: 1:31:20

Yeah, and I'm like what?

Speaker 2: 1:31:21

the fuck. And I was pissed. I was so pissed off them and I was also dealing with all the other stuff, yeah, and I was like what the fuck are you doing, dude? And I like walk around and he's shitting in a toilet that doesn't work. He's sleeping in one section. He's got all this stolen stuff. So I take the speaker, take the bike, take everything, and I remember sitting there and he's trying to talk to me and I just fade out.

Speaker 2: 1:31:49

I turned my camera off and I sat there for a second and I remember thinking this I was like I'm going to fucking put this guy on the ground, not from the area, no family, no ties here, no one knows him. I'm going to fuck this dude up. Nothing you can do about it, did you? No? I literally told him. I was like like get away from me right now, walk away. And I told in in this building I'm like walk away from me right now, get away from me. I didn't want to do. I didn't want him to say another word. I didn't want him to do anything because it was.

Speaker 2: 1:32:21

I was right there, yeah, and I said get the fuck away from me right now, shut the fuck up, walk out. And he was like a little puppy dog and he was like I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And I literally I started walking away and he was following me like almost like a little kid tugging on the shirt, and he's like I'm sorry, I'm sorry, it won't happen again this and that. And I turned around. I was like get on the next bus and get the fuck out of this town and I'm serious about that. If I see you again, I'm going to fuck you up. And he's like I'm sorry. And I was like shut the fuck up and get out of here. And he's like yes, sir, and he ran out, never saw him again. And I got the stuff, I returned it, but it was in that moment. I was like I'm going to put them in the ground. No, nothing, nothing's going to happen. I can do it.

Speaker 1: 1:33:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:33:10

And it was that moment where I was like, okay, it's bad, like I gotta talk to someone, and um, I didn't tell anyone, I've never said anything about that to anyone, and but I knew I needed help. I was like something's gone and so we have like an employee assistance pipeline which is like a phone number to call, and um, it was basically like, hey, I need to talk to a counselor or a therapist or something. And I wasn't't on ledge, but I was fucking close Like I was like I'm going to snap and I called him.

Speaker 1: 1:33:34

So you're struggling at this point. Obviously it's affecting work. I'm hungry, I'm not sleeping, I'm drinking. What's it doing to your health? Are you gaining weight, losing weight?

Speaker 2: 1:33:44

I'm 280 pounds, just fat. Yeah, I, 280 pounds, just fat. Yeah, I was gaining weight. I didn't care. I didn't care about myself. The only consistent thing was like I wouldn't drink unless I had worked out. So like I would work out in the morning and then start drinking, which does absolutely nothing, doesn't matter. But in my mind I was like I'm not gonna drink unless I work out. So that's how you justified it. So I'd work out that cool, now I can drink. And then I would drink for the sole purpose of getting me asleep so all of this is just piling and piling and piling.

Speaker 1: 1:34:12

You almost put this dude in the dirt. Yeah, I'm like this guy's getting that's what it registered like. Hey I am, this isn't for me.

Speaker 2: 1:34:19

Yeah and so I called this, I called this line that's supposed to help me, and I was like, hey, listen, like I'm not on a ledge, but like I need to get some things off my chest, like I need to talk to someone, and, um, like okay, we can set you up with a therapist like this, and that They'll call you in a week. I'm like that's fine, cool.

Speaker 1: 1:34:38

In a week, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:34:39

Like, and I'm like yep, that's fine, cool, appreciate it. So a week goes by, they call me and this is how the conversation goes. They're like hey, is this Robert Woodworth? I'm like yes, it is. Do you still want to talk to a therapist? Yeah, cool, we have a bad connection. We'll call you right back, click. I'm like whatever, that's fine. 30 seconds go by, they call me hey, is this Robert Woodworth? Like they had forgotten they had even called me and they're like hey, is this Robert Woodworth? Yes, it is. Hey, do you still want to talk to a therapist? Yeah, cool, we have a bad connection. Click, it's been three years, four years, that was it.

Speaker 1: 1:35:24

So you're struggling, you reach out for help which most people don't to a hotline hotline that this is their sole job. This is their designated job is to help law enforcement officers. While you're struggling to talk to somebody and you never got contact.

Speaker 2: 1:35:42

They never followed through and so that's when I was like three years, you said years ago years ago, three, four years ago, and so now I'm sitting there in the patrol car and I'm on duty and I'm sitting in the patrol car Like well, fuck, like that's the one place I am comfortable going, like I don't know what to do and I go to your admin over this. No, like what am I supposed to say? Like happen, and um, so I'm like okay, well, I guess that's that. So I go about my day, I go about my shifts, I get transferred to West County and I'm working out there. I stopped wearing my vest. I drink every day Um Willow side and Gurnville road intersection, in the middle of nowhere.

Speaker 2: 1:36:23

It's a straight shot. People race down all the time. I stood in the middle of that intersection at midnight, three shifts out of my four. Why? Just to see if someone would come and help? No, just to see if they'd race. It was easier to get hit by a car than say, hey, I need help. It was easier to me to say I'm going to get hurt on the job and go out like that. Then it was a reach out. Then it was a reach out. Then it was to reach out and say like mentally, I'm not doing well and so.

Speaker 2: 1:36:54

I would stand in intersections in the middle of the night Hoping you'd get hit, hopefully that some car, drunk driver or something would just come by and just take me out and there would be no questions asked.

Speaker 1: 1:37:02

Really Got that deep.

Speaker 2: 1:37:04

Yeah, and I, literally I would put myself in situations like that almost every night, where I was like, oh fuck it, dude, if this is it, this is it, you know, like I'd park and I'd pull someone over and I'd park right in the middle of the lane, swing my door open. Instead of doing a passenger approach on the on the breakdown lane, I'd just passenger approach on the lane driver's side.

Speaker 1: 1:37:26

So you're just throwing.

Speaker 2: 1:37:27

I was like fuck it, if it happens, it happens. That's scary. And um, it got to a point where I was like, all right, I'm going to go. Like I broke down on shift and I went to my buddy's house. He was in my beat and I went to my buddy's house he had just retired for PTSD. And I went to his house and I'm like, dude, I need help. Like this is what's going on. He'd kind of known that I was struggling a little bit. Um, but I showed up to his house and I broke down. I was crying on duty, like I just broke down. I said I don't know what to do. And um, I was like I've tried calling that. No one's answering.

Speaker 2: 1:38:07

Um, this is what I do. Like I stand in the middle of intersections like I just I put myself in situations where I'm going to get fucking hurt just because I want to. It's easier, and I don't know who I can go to in the department, because it's like all we do is shit talk. I'm like you can't trust this guy, you can't trust that, you know, you can't trust admin because they're out for their own objectives and this and that. And so I was like I couldn. I can't trust anyone in the department.

Speaker 2: 1:38:30

And so I went to someone that I trusted. He was a partner of mine who, to this day, if I called him and said, hey, man, we got to, we got to bury this body, yeah, he would be like, all right, let's go. You know, I got the tractor loaded up and um, so I went to his house and I had a full fucking breakdown right there and I was like I don't know who to call or what to do. And he put me in touch with someone and it was just, it was his um, it was his attorney at the time and she was like, okay, this is what we're going to do. And she called the sheriff's office and I didn't know it. But that was my last day in the uniform.

Speaker 1: 1:39:01

Really yeah, so I went. Did you want it to be your last day, or no? No, to stay or no, no, so how did this go down like they? They let you go no.

Speaker 2: 1:39:11

So I um, basically called in sick, so like the next day was my friday or whatever, okay, and it was just basically, hey, he's going to be out sick. And I had sick time accrued and she called in the sheriff's office, said hey, he's sick, he's going to be out for a while, and she put in a worker's comp claim for me. Um and uh, I never went back to work and I started seeing a therapist immediately. Um, and it was every day. Did that help Um?

Speaker 2: 1:39:37

at first no because I was so hell bent on like I'm fine, I'm fine, yup. And like this is fine, like I can beat it, I'll take a week off and be fine. Um and uh, like six, seven months into it, it became the reality of like, hey, I'm not going back, there's a possibility, I'm not going back. Okay. And probably the hardest part was accepting that and accepting that everything I worked for everything I wanted. When I was a little kid watched my dad pin my badge on me and, like watching him get emotional over it, I felt like I failed and I felt like I wasn't worth it. And so to me, that was really struggling, that was really really hard to accept. Like I had worked so hard for this and wanted it so bad that I wasn't in control of it. When it got taken away from me, you know, and it's like for me to lose that identity, was like horrible. And it took me a long time to register and even talk about it to the point where we're here now and, dude, I struggled with it.

Speaker 2: 1:40:50

I drink every day. When I stopped working. Every day it was mimosas in the morning, but it was a fucking Coors Light and orange juice and I would drink that every day and I would just drink, and drink, and drink and I blew myself up. I'd have pizza every day. I didn't give a shit, like I just gave up. I gave up on life. I was like I have no purpose, I don't know who I am, I don't know what I'm doing and all I wanted to do was just get away. I wanted to sleep. I didn't sleep. I had nightmares. I wouldn't sleep. I bought pills from fucking someone that said, hey, this is supposed to help you sleep, and it was the most vivid dream of my life and I was like, thank God it wasn't a nightmare and yeah, I mean, it was just a horrible experience, I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:41:36

During that transition time, after you went to your buddies and broke down to them and telling them your situation, what did your department do to help during that time? I mean, obviously you're struggling. You know you're bad enough that you're standing in street intersections in the middle of the night hoping street racers would hit you, that like that's the point you're at. Yeah, what did your department do to help, support you or get you help or anything along those lines?

Speaker 2: 1:42:04

nothing like as soon as I went out, I was out.

Speaker 1: 1:42:09

Really.

Speaker 2: 1:42:10

Yeah, it became that, you know. Oh, he's gone, he's on, he's on workers comp.

Speaker 1: 1:42:14

Not their problem, not their problem.

Speaker 2: 1:42:16

And so I'd get those monthly check-ins hey, how's it going? Good, Cool, Is there anything you like we can do for you? I'm like nope. That was it? The conversation was once a month, five minute really, and I don't understand how this is this is normal, yeah, and I mean it's like I have a.

Speaker 2: 1:42:35

I have a lot of people that left with ptsd, left with injuries, like legitimate injury, like not that mine's not, like not legitimate, but like people with blown out shoulders, blown out backs, this and that and same thing. There's no help, there's nothing. Workers comp fights you. I went without pay for six months, buried myself financially, um, just to pay my bills. Um, uh, yeah, they didn't approve it. I had to prove the workers comp was work related. Um, I had to go through psyche valves. I had to go through, like I mean, I just signed, I just got my settlement, not that like this is important, but like I just got my settlement to finalize everything.

Speaker 1: 1:43:19

I got that less than a month ago, and it's been oh really it's been.

Speaker 2: 1:43:23

I've been retired for two years really yeah, and it just hit damn like, why do they fight it so bad?

Speaker 2: 1:43:31

I don't know. I think it's. You know it comes down to like the money part of it. I think like that's my guess, you know. But I don't know why they fight it so bad. But they fight everything and like the mental health part of it is it's they try to blame. It smells like a burnt body. You know I can't have Vynex wipes because it reminds me of a decant body.

Speaker 2: 1:44:01

I can't talk about things because it brings me back to that moment. Like I'm sweating right now just talking about this. Like it's, it's an uncomfortable thing for me to talk about. Like I get weekly nightmares. That doesn't go away. I don't sleep, I rely on sleep stuff. Um, you know, and it's like I've been progressing through the years but I still have underlying things where, like I get weekly nightmares and I don't sleep If I can't function. Yeah, for the first year I was off I didn't sleep. I would sleep an hour and it would just be like sleep an hour here, be up for eight hours, sleep an hour there, and it was just that. It was just like knock, sleep when I could snaps here and there.

Speaker 1: 1:44:43

Yeah, damn dude and it was just blows my mind that, like I, just I have such a hard time just wrapping my head around what are what the law enforcement community has to deal with on the day in and day out? And there's nothing like that's just no. Once you started that transition out, I mean, what was life for you like that? Because I mean, from your childhood to that point, I mean all you ever wanted to be was a cop, yeah. So what was that transition like? Was that pretty rough at that point, or were you ready?

Speaker 2: 1:45:17

No, I, so I, I. I think I brought it up, but like I was convinced, I wasn't retiring I was convinced I wasn't going back.

Speaker 2: 1:45:24

And so my mindset was like, okay, I just need time off. Um. And so my therapist you know, we met for a while there. Um, and so my therapist you know, we met for a while there. We met every day. Really, yeah, and it was bad because, like you know, once I transitioned out, I had nothing, like I wasn't allowed to work because workers comp was going on. Um, I wasn't wanting to work. I isolated myself in the house Like I would take different routes. So basically, what ended up happening was I wouldn't, I wouldn't sleep, I would hold myself up, and the expectations of people were coming back, because when they came to my house that first time, it wasn't oh, they found me, they're gonna leave me alone. It was, we found them. Now we're gonna come back at a later time and kill them so that's weighing on you.

Speaker 2: 1:46:06

So they had marked my house. They said this is where a cop lives, we're gonna go fucking kill this cop. And so it was paranoia of them coming back and finishing with their starter. And so every night I was up ready for them, um, and so I would take different routes home, um, I'd stay up all night, I would drink, I would do this, I would sleep when I could. So, an hour here, hour there, um.

Speaker 2: 1:46:30

But I was ready, I was ready for someone and um, like I'd get nightmares, wake up and I'm grabbing my gun out of the dresser, really, and um, I'd get the same two nightmares back and forth, and I still get them. Um, where one of them is like I have two cats, like I'm a cat guy, um, and one of them is I'm away from my house. They show up and they kill my cats and they're swinging from the fan as I come home and um, so that was like I can't leave my house. I can't leave my house. They're going to come when I'm not here and they're going to kill my animals, they're going to kill my pets, destroy my house, um. Or the other one was I was in my house and they would corner me in all four corners of my house. They would corner me in, no matter how many times I killed them. There'd be more that show up, um, and so I'd had these two nightmares. That was pretty much every night.

Speaker 1: 1:47:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:47:21

And so it would just stop me from sleeping because I was ready for them to come back. I knew every license plate in my neighborhood. I knew if there was a new car in the neighborhood. I became obsessed with my cameras. I became obsessed with everything in my neighborhood. So now it's just eating at you, yeah. And so I became obsessed with it. Um, I hated people Like I wouldn't go out, I door dash everything. Um, the one consistent thing was I'd lift weights. So, like I would go to the gym in the morning, take a different route home, pick up things. If I needed things AKA, if I needed beer, if I needed tequila, I would pick that up and then go home.

Speaker 1: 1:47:53

How long did this last?

Speaker 2: 1:47:55

I mean I drank. I did this for probably a good year actually probably closer to a year, really Probably a good year Um, and I blew up. I got really fat, overweight, didn't care, um, and I didn't see it myself. You know my family. I hid it from my family. They knew I drank, but they didn't know the extent of it. If it was nice out, I literally would fill my truck bed with, I'd put a tarp in it, fill it with water, sit in there and just have seltzers, beers, everything floating there and I would sit in that thing until I couldn't get out and all I would do is just sit there and drink.

Speaker 1: 1:48:30

Really so and, um, all I would do is just sit there and drink, really so, um, nobody's coming to check on you. Nobody from the department thinks it should be.

Speaker 2: 1:48:37

They should swing by and no, maybe like the first week or two, they'd be like, hey, everything good I have had. I've had a few people check in on me randomly. Okay, like hey, can we swing by and say, hi, um, but that stopped, you know, like it was maybe once a month.

Speaker 2: 1:48:52

Maybe once a month, once every other month, um, and it was always one or two guys, ones that I liked, yeah, ones that I would still consider like hey, if I saw him today, friends, um, but that that stopped, you know, that went away. So, um, but no one from admin, no one, no one of any importance would show up.

Speaker 1: 1:49:12

That's so unfortunate, man that they put you guys out there like that. Yeah, and then just that's it. Yeah, and like thanks for your service. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:49:20

And so, you know, it's just a lot of sitting at time, like sitting at home doing nothing except drinking and thinking with my thoughts, you know, and, um, I was so desperate for just peace, quiet in my mind. Um, dude, I'd go for drives and the middle of the night I'd go for drives. I'd be like I'm not coming home, like really write my note, take off in the middle of the night and be like this, is it?

Speaker 2: 1:49:43

really drove out to the coast, because we're 45 minutes from the coast. I'd sit out there, cry and just be like this is it, I'm not coming home, and I would drive and drive and drive. So that was like the one thing where it was bad. It was really bad was because I lost my identity. I didn't know who I was. I wasn't robbie anymore. Anywhere I went, I was robbie the cop. I was still associated with this uniform. It was still everything in me and it was everything I wanted to do, you know, and like a big part of it was going back to my dad.

Speaker 2: 1:50:17

It was like I didn't know how to tell him that I couldn't do something he was so proud of and uh, like that ate me away. And my parents? I hid it from my parents. I didn't talk to them about it, Um, and they knew I was hurt, Like. They knew I was like mentally not okay, but they didn't know the extent of it. They didn't know. I wrote a letter to them. They don't know. I wrote everything to be in my brother's name. Like I put everything together so that at any time, if I wanted to, I would be gone and you're by yourself through all this.

Speaker 2: 1:50:50

No no, I had a girl that I was dating then, um, and she took an absolute beating from me. Sure and um, I actually just like I wanted to make sure it was okay to talk about with her. Um, she's okay with it, but during this entire time, like she was there for me, she produced every single day and she was there. She was an absolute foundation. She took an absolute fucking beating yeah she watched me drink myself.

Speaker 2: 1:51:24

She watched me be angry. She watched me be an asshole, say things I didn't mean, and every day she chose to show up. She took care of me. She watched me get sloppy drunk. She didn't care. She loved me for who I was and knew and knew I wasn't that, and I think the relationship didn't work out. It wouldn't have worked out in any way, um, but it got to the point where I was just not good and I ended up ending the relationship and I think it was the best thing for her. Um, but I feel embarrassed and I'm like completely ashamed of who I was, because that's not someone that she met you know, Absolutely, but she was an absolute rock and she

Speaker 2: 1:52:07

was there every single day and she chose to love me through every part of it and I I praise her now and I think she is an absolute angel and there's there's probably some things that she doesn't know about. Like you know, late driving around by myself, she probably assumed other things, um, but there were nights where I just was gone. There were nights where I just was gone. There were nights where I was just I'm not coming back and the biggest thing was like the disappointment with myself and my family. I couldn't face it and like I couldn't talk about it. I wouldn't tell people. I would just say, yeah, I'm off, I got hurt, and I would blame it on something Like I got hurt on a dirt bike at work, which is true, so I had that to back it up, and so that's what I would tell people. I wasn't ready to admit the fact that I was like I was hurt Me as a human being, mentally. I was not there.

Speaker 1: 1:53:03

So do you feel? In that state and your mindset it was easier to take your life than it was just to reach out to your parents and let them know how bad you were struggling.

Speaker 2: 1:53:13

A thousand percent. It was way easier. It was way easier to disappear and not be someone's problem. So you thought, so I thought you know, and like, I think that's where, like, I started connecting with people that I worked with, like like people that I dealt with, you know, because I dealt with a lot of suicides, a lot of suicide attempts and I got to the point at the end where I'm like dude, I know how you're feeling, man, like I wouldn't tell them that, but like internally I'd be sitting there like, oh, that is so sad. And it got to a point where it was like fuck man, like I'm a burden, like no one cares about me. The one place I'm supposed to call they didn't call me back. They don't care. No one's answering my door, like no one's coming over, no one's checking in on me. I have a girlfriend here I don't appreciate, and she, she's still sticking with me through everything and part of the reason I'm still alive is because she's there, because she was there.

Speaker 2: 1:54:05

If I didn't have anyone, almost by myself and no, absolutely not. You know, I had one buddy that I would call and I'm like dude, I'm not doing well, and he'd be like let's go get a beer, but that was an immediate thing, was like let's go get a beer and then I'd go crush beers with them, drive home, continue drinking myself until I passed out. And like I still got photos now where it's just like Coors Light cans lined up this and that, and like this is my dinner. Dinner was like a box of pasta and fucking 12 cores lights and yeah, I mean, I just I wasn't doing well and you know, I thought no one cared. Yeah, I thought no one cared about me because One, who, who cares about the mental part of it? No one, you know, just tough it out. And two, it's, you're a cop, you're fine, you know you're supposed to be okay.

Speaker 2: 1:54:56

And it just like it didn't. It wasn't part of the plan for me. I was expecting to do 33 years there and be successful and have a career and have it taken away. And it was out of my control. When that's where it was like dude, I hope I get hit by a car, I hope I get hit by a car, I hope I get shot, stabbed, I hope I want something like that. So it's an easy no questions asked. When the underlying reason is like dude, I just I, mentally, I can't hang with it. Yeah, and for me it was so much easier to have something happen to me because I didn't want to admit that I'm at fault, that I have got something going on, and so when did it get to the point you know you're struggling for a solid year contemplating God knows what.

Speaker 1: 1:55:46

Where did it like hit you where you realize that you got the death wobbles and you're just going 100 miles an hour down the highway and you're about to just be peeled all over the asphalt Dude?

Speaker 2: 1:55:54

I think it was. I mean, there's a couple moments. I mean it was kind of like when I shut my camera off and I was ready to just put that dude in the ground. That was like a moment where I'm like something's wrong. You know, I stood in this intersection for an hour and I'm like, dude, something's off with. Know, I stood in this intersection for an hour and I'm like, dude, something's off with me, like something's going on, and then breaking down to my buddy was kind of like the final hey, this is this isn't right yeah you know, and then staying up drinking, all of that, it was just kind of like it accumulated.

Speaker 2: 1:56:26

But I saw these major check marks of like hey, you're going to snap, you don't care about yourself, you're fucking breaking down at work, this is something's going on here and you got to address it, you know. And then going through the therapy and doing that and just trying everything under the sun, it was like nothing's working. Nothing's working. But talking it out through therapy and understanding that it's okay, dude, it took like a year. I wasn't even like he didn't want me driving down the street that the department was on. He's like avoid that street really don't look at it.

Speaker 2: 1:57:01

Don't go to the department, don't put the uniform on, don't look at your uniform because it broke me down is.

Speaker 1: 1:57:10

I mean you've had time to reflect and obviously you've talked to a therapist a lot. Is there anything looking back now that you wish or you could have done differently to have a different outcome with your career? Or I mean it's you're dealing with the shit every day. I think you know.

Speaker 2: 1:57:30

I think that there it's not something I could have done. I think it could have been. I think it can be better with overall departments community okay and within the department, the deputies, police officers. I think there should be a better way to address these things, because I know that I'm not the first person that called the helpline and nothing came out of it. That's mind blowing and, um, I think that having a better understanding and more of an acceptance with it, because you know mental health is like Ooh taboo, something's wrong with them. You know he's fucking not trustworthy.

Speaker 2: 1:58:10

That's what it falls down to is if you have something mentally wrong with you, like you can't trust them yep, they're unstable.

Speaker 2: 1:58:15

When it's like, dude, in reality, like whatever you tell me dies with me, right and um. So it's like, hey, we can't, we got a tiptoe around this guy, this, and that the department doesn't want to do anything that's going to offend you or do this or like upset you, when in reality, reality. I think that there needs to be some sort of accountability, whether it be like, hey, dude, there's monthly meetings going on at the department, it's all in house, you guys all talk and get it all out there. You know the only time that that ever happens, when there's a critical incident or something really severe, and half the time deputies don't show up, it's not mandatory, like, I'm not saying it should be mandatory, but it should be more frequent and more public so that it's more normalized. Okay, rather than like, hey, it's only for specific incidences. That's when we're going to pull this out and have meetings and a group therapy thing Not wait for the incident to be able to address it.

Speaker 2: 1:59:08

But even if it's something simple like dude, you had a hanging man, man, you had to hold the body while someone cuts them down like let's see, that's about that.

Speaker 1: 1:59:12

That's the shit. Civilians don't think, you know, we don't. We want to sit here and, oh, cops this and that. I mean we get the, the ignorance that comes from just the civilians here in the united states went toward police. It's, it is mind-boggling. Oh, you, the only people that can get away with murdering people. And it's just so ignorant to me. And I get it there. It's like anything there's, there's, there's good and there's bad. Right, you got your 10 of shit and the rest are probably good or whatever, and so, but what I feel where we really lack as a civilization, or I guess a society, where we lack as a society, would be we don't show the true, day in and day out of law enforcement. I mean you just saying you got to hold the body while somebody else cuts it down, not even knowing how long this guy's been hanging in a tree or in a house, and yeah, and it's like that's like another part of it is like there's such as there's so many small aspects just touching on it.

Speaker 2: 2:00:21

It's like as a deputy, we're a deputy coroner and so every death investigation we have to manipulate that body. Make sure there's no stab wounds in your back you're bending bodies, moving bodies I and rigor mortis sets fairly quick, yeah, and so like any kind of death, if it's suspicious or anything like that, like we, we like hey, there's an obvious bullet wound, we're not going to touch anything but, if it's like a suicide, we gotta make sure that there's no stab wounds, there's no bullet wounds, you know.

Speaker 2: 2:00:50

If no bullet wounds, you know if someone kills themselves, like we had alcohol poisoning lady threw up everything inside of her organs, everything I have to roll that body around and make sure that she doesn't have stab wounds. I got to make sure there's no bullet wounds, that there's no signs of foul play, you know. And then I call a detective and say, hey, come on out and look at this.

Speaker 2: 2:01:07

Or like they say no, no, you can just release the body I mean, and you're dealing with this daily, yeah, and I gotta like the dude falls into the crack between the bed and the and the wall, we gotta pick him up and manipulate him so that we make sure it's like, oh, he just died in his sleep or there's no signs of foul play. But it's like we do that and then we immediately go to a traffic. Stop you, fucking stop me because I'm mexican. No, I stopped you because you ran a stop sign, almost killed this lady, and it's like okay, cool, like 15 minutes ago I was just playing with a dead body and that's just.

Speaker 1: 2:01:39

Yeah, where's, and where's and where's and chips there's no, there's no.

Speaker 2: 2:01:43

There's no outlet for most people, except for your buddies and you're drinking and it's after shift and you guys joke about it, talk, shit this and that and then you go about your separate ways and try to make light of it, but you're home laying in bed thinking about it.

Speaker 2: 2:01:57

Yeah a thousand percent. I don't think there's a cop out there that can truly say like, oh yeah, this shit doesn't bother me, because in that moment, like whether they're listening to this or listening to some call for service, they immediately have a call that they think of, that relates to that. So it's not like, oh, it doesn't affect me, it affects you. It just may not be visible now.

Speaker 1: 2:02:15

Now you know and it's visible to your kids because you're a raging asshole when you walk in the door, but like hey, you're fine, your wife left you and it's like, oh, she was a bitch like well, was she not?

Speaker 2: 2:02:24

you know and, um, you know, I think another part of it too. It's like I didn't have some crazy long career. I didn't have anything where I was shot, nothing crazy. I considered myself like I was a competent deputy. I was able to do my job. I took care of my partners. I didn't shy away from a fight. I didn't shy away from reports. I showed up and I did my job, like I was a competent deputy. I'm not saying I'm a rock star, this and that, and I didn't do 30 plus years like I didn't do that. I, I did as much as I could before my life, took the ultimate sacrifice and, um, like my perspective off what I've experienced and what I've seen. You know, if, like, that's just my perspective of it, you know, and if someone disagrees with it, then that's totally fine.

Speaker 1: 2:03:07

Yeah, you know, I've gotten to the point now where I'm comfortable talking about it like, like, I'm sweating like this is uncomfortable, but I'm able to talk about it and I I honestly really appreciate the conversation because it's I feel it's guys like you with these stories and sharing them on any platform or just talking behind closed doors to other law enforcement officers. There are thousands and thousands of cops that have are in your shoes, which is what I'm realizing with how much feedback and how many cops are reaching out to us of how bad they're struggling and there's nobody there to help them.

Speaker 2: 2:03:43

And I think a big part of it too is like cops use this excuse of like I'm 15 years in, I'm vested, I can't leave, I don't have anything I can do after dude. I lived years in I'm vested, I can't leave, I don't have anything I can do after dude. I lived and breathed that job like it's all I ever wanted to do. I didn't even entertain the idea of what I'm doing now. I didn't entertain the idea of training, I didn't entertain the idea of doing anything other than police work, and so when that was taken away from me by something I couldn't control, I completely lost who I was. I had to re-find myself. I had to re-find myself. I had to re-find a purpose Like that took a long time, you know, and right now money like dude. I don't care if I was 20 years invested and could have retired with 90% of my pension Like you got to leave.

Speaker 2: 2:04:28

There are things that cops can do outside that you'd succeed in and you'd make money in and be totally comfortable. And so many cops get sucked into the idea of like, well, I'm in this for 10 years, I'm in this for 50. I got to retire. Now, yeah, I'm stuck here, I can't do this and that it's like. No, the reality is like what we've been trained to do is mind blowing how it applies to jobs outside. I've been offered jobs that I'm like buddy, I am not qualified for this at all, but because of the aspect of what I've done and how I've been trained just simple communication skills, simple having conversations with people, people skills is such a valuable thing. It's so valuable and now it's becoming more valuable in having life experience and being able to communicate with people. It's becoming more valuable to the point where jobs like we'd rather have that than some degree okay, let's jump in, let's jump into this then.

Speaker 1: 2:05:17

So you know you've transitioned out, you're, you're now lining yourself out, and I love the fact that you say that, because I it's the exact same for the military. I catch a lot of shit on it because I tell people all the time, like, do four and get out. Just because you do eight or 12 does not mean you have to career it for one.

Speaker 1: 2:05:38

You're stuck there, you're not stuck there. Oh man, I'm almost at the halfway mark. You're almost at the halfway mark. Then you got another whole half a fucking mark to go, and if you're hating it now, it's just going to right, keep piling on and getting worse and worse, and then you realizing you have to find a new identity yeah that is the.

Speaker 1: 2:06:01

That's the scariest thing. That's the scariest thing because most people don't realize that that's what they're they're looking for, that's what they need to be looking for, and it's this. And I I only speak for the veteran side because I'm not a law enforcement officer, but it's the same in the veteran community it's I'm a vet disgruntled vet drink my black rifle coffee.

Speaker 1: 2:06:25

Wear my grunt style shirt rah, rah, rah, yeah, cool, yeah, cool, dude rocket, we're okay, you've done your time. What are we doing now? And I feel it's the same for the law enforcement community, for nurses, doctor, anybody that's dealt dealt with the shittiest of the shit jobs, yeah, which is any public servant, military, any of that? And then, on top of that, dealing with the trauma, the bullshit, the harassment, just everything that comes with the title cool. We have to find that new identity and that is the biggest thing that I'm trying to get guys now to start realizing. If not, you're going to be that grumpy asshole. You're taking it out on your, your wife's, your punching bag or your third or fourth, fifth wife. You're chasing the bottle every single night and it's sad because I feel a lot of guys in your situation. It takes a long time to realize where you're at now, and I mean I'm dealing with vets.

Speaker 2: 2:07:27

And it's something that you don't have to wait until you're retired to do.

Speaker 1: 2:07:30

No.

Speaker 2: 2:07:30

Because here's the thing too and I'm sure, like vets do this too, because I'm not a vet, so I can only speak the law enforcement side but like law enforcement officers, they stick with law enforcement officers. What we do on our days off, we hang out with our partners, we hang out with law enforcement officers. We don't venture out, we don't do anything out of the ordinary, we just live and breathe. Hey, we're cops, we're going to hang out with cops, we're going to drink with cops, we're going to do cop stuff, we're going to do this and that, when in reality I'm like, dude, you got to get out there and have separation, because if you have separation, you could find something you truly love.

Speaker 2: 2:08:01

I know, deputies, that they went on and they retired from the sheriff's office and now they brew beer. Yes, and they're like, I absolutely love it. They went to school for it, they started over, they were, they were a student, they became a brewer and then now they're brewing beer for a company and it's like it's the best thing he's ever done in his life. And you know there's so many new identity.

Speaker 1: 2:08:21

It's a new identity and it doesn't have to start when you're done and it's, it's just separation is important it took me a long time to realize that because I'd always surround myself with vets, the bros right, the bro vets. And then I, people who understand, yeah, oh, these guys get it, they get it, but when they're getting it they're not helping you uplift yourself or change your mindset or your attitude. They keep you there. They keep you there because they get it. And it took me a long time because I'd hang out with these bro vets and then I started realizing these guys, I don't find the vet dark humor funny. No, I don't laugh at it. I don't want to run around with silkies, ass grabbing, just doing the most douchery shit on these silky walks. That's just not me as a vet. And then I had to start finding oh, this fat, this dude's successful, he's built companies. Yeah, then he, I'm okay, I'm gonna. I want to pick his brain, I want to sit at a table with him.

Speaker 2: 2:09:21

That's like john from uxo he's a great example, perfect example of he perfect. He did his time, he saw his experiences and then he progressed and did something for his community and he's growing and he's thriving and he's successful. It's like you can have the happiness and have purpose doing something away from what you're used to doing, because you get trained, you get it beaten into you, you get it like, hey, this is how it's going to be, this is your life from here on out, and it's like you need that separation to get you away from that. It's healthy. It's it's so healthy because it gives you a different perspective of life. You know, if you just have the negative mindset of what we're drinking, talking shit about our wives, about work, this and that, my all, my wife's a fucking ball and chain, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1: 2:10:04

You're not going to do anything but be negative.

Speaker 2: 2:10:06

you know, and so like, you know and so like, so important, it's so important to get that, that difference, and get something positive in your life. You know, and it's like for me. I fell into powerlifting and that was so positive because it gave me a team bonding. Okay, Like I, I became part of a team and it gave me a sense of purpose again where I'm like dude, I can't drink because I got to perform and form and then it was oh, they train in the nighttime, like they train in the evenings.

Speaker 2: 2:10:31

Well, I'm not going to drink before I work out. So then it eliminated drinking during the day, good. And so, like, I joined this team and I was like, okay, you know what I'm actually pretty good at this Like, why don't we take this a little bit more seriously? And then I started enjoying it a little bit more and I found myself like, oh, I'm enjoying life a little bit and it was like, oh, I can do things away from law enforcement, that's okay. And shoot the people that I worked with. One of them spent time in jail, like a significant time in jail. Another one is an ex-addict. You know, he spent his 20s snorting cocaine and now he's sober for 30 plus years, you know, and it's like each one of these people comes from a different walk of life. That's not law enforcement, and it has grown my knowledge and appreciation for people in so many different ways and like it's.

Speaker 1: 2:11:14

Because you're not grasped onto this, I have to have the bros with me. Yeah, now you're associating with somebody that you could have previously arrested, but you're, you have a completely different mindset for it now. It's like yo, dude, like who? Who are you? Instead of oh, this dude's an addict, it's oh, oh, it's Frank.

Speaker 1: 2:11:30

Yeah, exactly you know, and then you're hearing their stories and their, and then then you're able to look at people as a human, not a suspect or a bad guy or hey, this guy's a pain in my ass. He's just a dude down the street and he's got his struggles and battles, everything that we do.

Speaker 2: 2:11:45

Some of the coolest people I've ever met spent time in prison like really shitty people in life, and it's like, yeah, they made changes and now they're paying off their home within three years. They got successful businesses and it's like I would have never known that if I hadn't given them an opportunity to talk, you know, and like that's where and I get. I know that there's people in my department that are disgruntled at the fact that like, oh, you're retired, blah, blah, blah you're. You know you weren't anything this and that talk shit. Think You're. You know you weren't anything. This and that Talk shit. Think less of me.

Speaker 2: 2:12:12

You know, and it used to like, it used to really bug me. Yeah, you know, like my persona, my like who they thought of me, it used to really bug me, you know. And now, and it's like you know what, I actually feel bad for you because I guarantee you if someone, someone in the department, if they hear this and if it comes out or whatever, they're gonna have some negative thing to say or whatever. And I'm like cool man, like this is my, that's your experience and this is, this was your, your journey.

Speaker 1: 2:12:42

It's you're starting new chapters. You're you're bettering your life. I get dude, I've. I don't get it as much. I get it from just the vet community when I talk about like why I got out and people are like you're a fucking quitter.

Speaker 2: 2:12:54

No, that's fine, you can believe what you want, like I'm doing something better and if I quit?

Speaker 1: 2:12:59

I quit.

Speaker 2: 2:13:00

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:13:02

You know, like if that was my choice. But I made the choice to better my life, start a business Like I. It was, it was my chapter and I closed the chapter and moved on. And it's your fucking quitter. You couldn't hack it, okay, yeah that's fine man.

Speaker 2: 2:13:14

That's your perspective. Oh, like, and you're miserable.

Speaker 1: 2:13:16

Yeah exactly You're? You're talking shit on social media Like I get. I do it every now and then I got to troll up yeah, yeah, guilty. But I'm like hey, years, I deployed to iraq twice I. I was an instructor, I was one of the most deck, I represented the most decorated division in the marine corps, traveled the world.

Speaker 2: 2:13:35

You're gonna talk shit, it's like, yeah, I did the time for me?

Speaker 1: 2:13:37

yeah, I did, it was my journey, yeah, and I feel that cops, firefighters, anybody, that anybody doesn't even athletes, yeah, anybody. And I feel like this is where I don't know where we get programmed, where we have to when we start something, you have to finish it and it's got to be 20 jump around man experience things like. I don't know why we have this idea like.

Speaker 2: 2:14:02

Well, I think it's I think it's the idea based off of the fear of change, right. So like we have a sure of, we don't like the uncomfortability of something new, foreign, and I think that they-. Yeah, it's the uncomfortable part because you don't know the outcome where it's safe and comfortable to show up to work and be like I'm going to be here for 20 years and it's okay.

Speaker 1: 2:14:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:14:22

You know, and I'd rather deal with the shitty parts of it, but I'm here for 20 years and I don't have to Is the worst way to live your life.

Speaker 1: 2:14:28

A thousand percent Like right now. It's the worst way.

Speaker 2: 2:14:30

Quality of life is everything to me, you know, and it's like, dude, you couldn't pay me enough to get back in that uniform, because I know for a fact I'd get in and be like, yeah, I'm good, I can handle it, this and that, but in a week I would immediately back to be day one you know it's not your thing, where it's like this stigma if you don't, oh, you, you left earlier.

Speaker 1: 2:14:50

you, you left the brotherhood behind, you left boys no, those motherfuckers haven't called me exactly.

Speaker 2: 2:14:57

You know you got no problem talking shit. Yeah, who did I leave things? But when I first went out, where were you guys? And it's like I think that's across the board. I think it's just like it was a harsh reality to see that I just became a number. Yep and, and you know it sucks, it sucks. It sucks to see, it sucks to handle, because in the moment when you're in briefing, when you're at coffee with all your guys, you're talking, joking, everyone's your friend, this and that, and then as soon as you leave, it's like gone. You know you got one, two people here and there, but then even that dwindles and you're down to like one person that you talk to.

Speaker 1: 2:15:30

And that's where it's so important to realize and it takes a lot of people a lot of years to realize cool, it's perfectly healthy to close chapters and start new ones. And then, with those new chapters and closing old chapters, that's where you start. Okay, maybe I don't need to be at the bar every single weekend.

Speaker 2: 2:15:47

Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1: 2:15:48

Maybe I don't need to be around these guys talking about only negative shit, or I don't need to be in these group chats where it's just trashing oh yeah, negative stuff.

Speaker 2: 2:15:58

24, 7 and that's all you're seeing is just negative, negative negative, funny, because now it's even negative conversations or like I think everyone knows a person that just every time you talk to them it's something negative out of their mouth. You're like but you just everything you say is negative and it's I can't even handle that, you know. It's like I don't even watch cop videos anymore, um, because I just it's nothing but monday morning quarterback, you know, and it's just like well, they could have done this, they should have done that. My buddy, they did the best they could.

Speaker 2: 2:16:22

That situation absolutely fucked yeah, but in his moment, in that time, like that split second, dude, and it's like to judge and say this and it's like here's the deal.

Speaker 2: 2:16:33

We can judge this in California, cause we know the California ways and the California rules and this and that, but in Tennessee their rules could be very different. Allow the, beat the shit out of you in some of these towns, exactly. And it's like in San Francisco, you, if you look at me the wrong way, I'm putting you in handcuffs and there's no report, there's nothing. If I stop you and I don't want you in the car, I can drag you out of the car and put you in handcuffs, like that's just the way it is. Detention, who cares if you're in the car, detained versus detained in handcuffs? Right, but San Francisco, you can't have someone sit on a curb.

Speaker 1: 2:17:17

You can't Three different angles? Yeah, and who knows what segment you're seeing. Yeah, you're getting a clip of it.

Speaker 2: 2:17:22

You're seeing the shittiest three seconds comparatively like hey, here's the five minute thing.

Speaker 1: 2:17:26

You didn't just watch this cop get his ass beat and fight for his life?

Speaker 2: 2:17:28

you just see him on top.

Speaker 1: 2:17:29

Yeah, handle my business, I get it.

Speaker 2: 2:17:32

You can't just monday morning quarterback everything and just assume like, oh, this guy's an idiot, blah, blah, blah. It's like buddy, you weren't there, you know.

Speaker 1: 2:17:38

So I just stopped watching them because yeah you have to dude and that's that's part of maturing as well, you know is realizing like it's like that, I get like that with politics. I start watching it and then I it starts festering, you know, especially being a vet. It's like why are we making these decisions? Why, why, why, why is this happening? What the fuck is going on, you know. And then my wife sat me down. She's like listen, yeah, if everything goes to shit right now, what are you gonna do? And I'm like nothing.

Speaker 2: 2:18:02

And here's the thing like the decisions that they're making doesn't affect your everyday life, no, no cool, my taxes, whatever.

Speaker 1: 2:18:07

They're gonna rape us on anything anyways. But like my life's gonna go on, I'm gonna got a roof over my kid's head. That's all I need to worry about. And so once you start realizing that and eliminating all the little pieces of cancer that just fester in you.

Speaker 2: 2:18:19

Yeah, I mean, there's a time and place to worry about things, for sure, for sure. You know, the most part is like when you hyper focus on the negativity on things and you can pick everything apart, you know like. You can go through your house and be like oh man, I really don't like this color. Oh, I really don't like this and that. But in the grand scheme of things it's like you're providing for your family.

Speaker 1: 2:18:35

Instead you're looking at man. I got a roof man. I'm very fortunate that we were able to pay our bills.

Speaker 2: 2:18:44

It's like for me. I look back and I'm like, yeah, it wasn't a 30-year career. I, you know, I think I could have done it longer, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I look at the totality of it. I learned so much, I have grown so much. My like mentality is different, my patience now is so much more than what it used to be, and the things I learned just from the people I interacted with and the things that I've been trained to do, like I just I apply everything I've taken from that and I applied it into my life in different aspects and it's creating a successful life for me.

Speaker 1: 2:19:18

Good, you know, and it's for you, man.

Speaker 2: 2:19:20

You it's basically it's okay to walk away from it, and it's like so many cops get so strung up on it and it's hard to talk to them because they're closed minded.

Speaker 1: 2:19:30

Oh, absolutely. Yes, it's the same. It's just. It's just how I think we're bred as the veteran law enforcement community. It's just. This is it. It's how it's got to be. Zero change in this. You just it sucks, but this is, this is part of it. Fuck that.

Speaker 2: 2:19:43

No.

Speaker 1: 2:19:44

If you're miserable and you're going home and bitching about it and you're not changing it. Yeah, that's a hundred percent on you, thousand percent. I came home the day and I I had to I've said it on this episode I came home the day that I realized I was done with the marine corps done and I've told my I think we weren't even engaged then, we were just dating and I I went home and I was like I'm done yeah so what do you mean?

Speaker 1: 2:20:05

I'm like I'm done with the marine corps, I'm getting out she's. I was like I fucking hate it. Yeah, I don't like putting on my uniform. I, I love my boys. I would, oh, dude my, my team, fuck, yeah, they to this day. But I, I hated the staff, I hated my job, I, I, I, I wore my, I wore civilian clothes home and I'd come back and I'd put I never took anything. That's when I realized, when I was leaving all of the Marine Corps at the Marine Corps and I wouldn't take any of it home, I was like this shit ain't for me.

Speaker 2: 2:20:37

And she asked so like that's incredibly healthy because you're not taking it home. It is so many people do take it home and when you take the uniform home, they can work with you A hundred percent. And then you come into the house and you have that, that with you.

Speaker 1: 2:20:47

Yeah, that stigma, whatever happened that day, you carrying it with you. And so, yeah, I told her. I was like I'm getting out and she's like what are you going to do? I was like I have no idea, but this isn't it. And I was like, if I have to flip burgers in and out, I will do it and she's like, all right.

Speaker 2: 2:21:03

I'm like, yeah, that was pretty much like I had no idea what I wanted to do. I worked part-time jobs when I was like, when I eventually could work, I started working. Um, I was like, yeah, this is fun, but it's not giving me purpose, you know, it's not giving me any enjoyment or fulfillment. And, um, you know, like I, the fitness thing has always been in my life.

Speaker 1: 2:21:22

That's what I was going to ask. So what's what's giving you your purpose now, now that you've transitioned and you have you've had time helping people and so like?

Speaker 2: 2:21:30

the fitness world. Like I did my thing in powerlifting. It gave me that sense of team bonding again, it gave me a sense of purpose and it gave me the ability to push myself to mentally limits that I never thought was possible. And, like it got me to the point where I was competing against people from all over the world. And the mentality behind that was like I'm going to push myself and push my body to things that I didn't think I could do. And behind that was like I'm going to push myself and push my body to things that I didn't think I could do, and so it kind of proved that I'm capable of things. I'm capable of doing things I didn't even dream of.

Speaker 2: 2:22:01

And, um, I liked that aspect so much and I liked the fact that, like, hey, this is really motivating for me and this is something that's beneficial. Um, I had to hire a nutritionist. I had to hire a coach to like, help me get back into shape because I was fat. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. I was used to pizza, beer, pasta and just doing whatever I wanted and just being fat. And so I hired a coach and, um, she got me into shape again in a way that wasn't like chicken and rice eight times a day, and so she got me back into a healthy weight and actually feeling good with myself and I was like what you did for me was completely changing my life and I wanted that for someone else. Like I wanted to be able to do that because it also associated with being a deputy. I wanted to change someone's life because there are times that I genuinely helped someone you know and it was so rewarding and such a good feeling, Absolutely, and I was like that is why I'm here.

Speaker 2: 2:22:51

Like this is why I'm here, right, and so it gave me that feeling of like, ooh, I want to help someone in some way that changes their life for the better.

Speaker 1: 2:22:58

Okay.

Speaker 2: 2:22:59

And so, like, I fell into the fitness thing, did my power lifting, I toyed around the idea of opening my own gym and promoting that, and then I just I was like I don't think I have the capabilities of doing that, um, and so I went about a bunch of different side jobs, did things like this doesn't really do anything for me, this doesn't really do that. Um, still competed, did the power lifting thing, but I was always focused on like, how do I help people, how do I coach, how do I get into the fitness world and be a benefit to someone? Again, because I again, I wanted to benefit someone again. And um, I had a conversation with my dad and this is actually kind of like this was an eyeopening experience for me too was before I moved here to Idaho.

Speaker 2: 2:23:43

Um, my dad called me randomly, like probably a month or two before I moved here, and uh, he was like hey, random, random phone phone call. He's like hey, man, I just want to check in on you. And uh, I'm like, yeah, I'm good, you know I'm fine, like I got my struggles, whatever. And um, he's like mom and I are really worried about you. We know you're struggling, we know you're doing the best you can. What can we do to help you?

Speaker 2: 2:24:07

because I know that you're struggling and, frankly, I'm worried about you and it fucked me up because I've never seen him say or do anything emotional, nothing like that. Like the most conversation, like the deepest conversations with hey, hey, you happy? Yeah, cool, anything I can do, no, cool, that's the deepest we've ever gotten. So for him to call me out of the blue and say like I am worried about you, I want to make sure you're okay, how can we get you okay, and it kind of struck a chord pretty deep and I was like okay, like I need to figure something out, do something. And so I told him. I said you know I'm thinking about going to Idaho and I got a bunch of buddies here and I like it. I've been visiting. I think it's a good spot for me. I think it would be really beneficial, both financially, it would be cheaper and I think it would be a good spot for me to just start over. No one knows me, no one knows Ms Robbie the cop. I don't have to go around asking like, hey, can you sign this ticket? Hey, where do I go for this? You know clean slate, and he was all on board. He's like you got to do it, you have to do it. And he's like you've exhausted your options here. You've tried things here. It doesn't work, that's fine, let's go do this. He's like when I was in college at your age, I was bouncing around couches. I was a homeless person Like I, just I wasn't successful. He's like it's okay to do this Absolutely. And so I'm like I'm glad my parents are behind that.

Speaker 2: 2:25:29

And so I ended up moving out here and I joined the Mecca. I love the gym, I love the atmosphere. And Garrett, one of the coaches there, he pulled me aside randomly. He's like have you ever thought about coaching? I was like I have, I'm not certified. I would need help, you know. And like I just don't know anything about it really. But I, I just don't know anything about it really. But anything in the fitness or gym world, I'm all about right and I want to do something in that. And he's like, okay, well, let's have a conversation. So we ended up sitting down talking about like how the training goes at the Mecca, how the trainers are supported and how they have a good system with getting clients into me and stuff like that, and I was like that sounds pretty good.

Speaker 1: 2:26:10

And at the time I was working for ELM.

Speaker 2: 2:26:11

Utilities. It was good at the time I was working for um, uh, elm utilities. It was like a uh locating job, so I located gas and power lines and it was still winter here, so it was like I was out in the snow rain, shitty weather, cold. I'm locating gas and power lines and I remember I'd located like six, seven hundred feet of power in the snow and mud and I literally said this is for the birds, dude, like this sucks.

Speaker 2: 2:26:33

And so I got in the car, put in my two weeks notice and I called uh, called up the gym, I think I called Laura and I was like hey, I want to go full time at the gym If you guys can support me out, like, help me in the beginning, give me some hours, whatever, like I'll do whatever, but I'll be full time. And they said, yeah, absolutely. So they brought me on full time, started training people. I got clients pretty quick and I'm still building clients. Good for you, dude, dude.

Speaker 2: 2:26:55

It is so rewarding to actually have people come to me asking for help, because that's what I was used to doing. It was like people would call and ask for help, you know, and half the time, you know, no one's happy about calling the cops, but there's a small portion of calls where you show up and people are genuinely like thank god, you're relieved, yeah, and so having people come to me and like I need help, can you help me? And I said yeah, like let's figure this out. And so having those clients come into me and starting to do that, like I feel fulfilled again.

Speaker 2: 2:27:25

I feel like I'm getting me back good man good, like it took a long time for me to get in a sense like Robbie back.

Speaker 1: 2:27:36

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:27:36

Cause I was always a fun person, free, didn't care about things. Um, funny, like I liked hosting, I like doing everything, and I just became so secluded and sucked away and, uh, like doing this has really like changed it and it's like I'm getting a version of me. I'm getting a version of me that's coming back good man, love it.

Speaker 1: 2:27:58

Good dude, I love to hear that and that's why it's like you know. I see you in there and you always got a smile on your face. You're always with somebody helping somebody yeah so it's.

Speaker 1: 2:28:09

It's awesome to be able to hear do the bullshit and the trials and tribulations that you've gone through into now finding your groove and feel feeling accomplished again because you're able to help people in a completely different way. But it's, and that's what's, that's what's so scary, man and I I commend you for making the jump, because a lot of dudes they that's like. You're in that position now where it sucks yeah, you're uncomfortable, dude.

Speaker 2: 2:28:38

I came to a place I like I have no family here yeah like I didn't know anyone. I had a couple buddies, but they got families, jobs. They have their own lives. You know, I didn't have any support system here, so I created everything you know, and it was like terrifying. I was like I don't know if I'm going to make it, you know, and um, but it I like it's been the best thing I've ever done.

Speaker 1: 2:29:00

Good man. Yeah, I'm glad we've had this conversation.

Speaker 2: 2:29:03

Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1: 2:29:04

This was I. It's an eye opener and, you know, not every I don't expect every show to be like this wild, crazy, fucking shootouts, and I prefer them to not be that way and, honestly, I prefer these is because it's real and it's raw. Yeah, and there's so many guys that are out there right now that are in your previous shoes that are either too scared to jump they feel they're too committed or too many years in. Whatever their excuses are for not changing their stars, and I'm I'm one of those. I tell the girls all the time, and I'm we preach it here like, if you're not happy, change change, it change it, change it.

Speaker 1: 2:29:43

And if you're not happy and you're not making changes, shut the fuck up right and suck it up, bottle it all away and live your miserable life, because that's Because that's your only option, it's your decision that you're making, you're putting yourself in that position. And I get it and people are like oh, you just can't quit.

Speaker 2: 2:30:00

That's what forces you to make changes. It's not even quitting, it's just like it's making that conscious effort to be like. You know what I need to do something better for myself.

Speaker 1: 2:30:07

Yes, Because quitting better for myself.

Speaker 2: 2:30:12

Yes, you know, because quitting it's like a bad word for a lot of people, but it's not necessarily quitting it's. It's moving on changing your life, I got bettering yourself. I got to do something to better myself and better my quality of life and it goes for wives too.

Speaker 1: 2:30:21

We got a lot of law enforcement military wives that listen to us and dude. If your husband is miserable, say something, help support him yeah, it helps up.

Speaker 1: 2:30:29

That's and that's a I. I feel women are the other side that we haven't really, we won't even need to really get into it. But yeah, it's having a supportive foundation of a wife, doesn't now we need? We need your benefits, we need your pension. No, you're you mean to tell me you're happy with your husband going off and slowly dying every single day on that shift or on patrol or like I, so prime.

Speaker 2: 2:30:50

so prime example is like um, it was the American dream. It was high school Sweethearts had a boy, had a girl, had a golden retriever, beautiful house, camper, rv, and they had been together for 12, 13 years, happily married, and she rolled over in bed one day I was like I don't recognize you, I resent you and I can't stand looking at you anymore and walked out. And it's like you. You change so much over time that you don't one. You don't want to talk to your spouse about anything. So you come home, you're shut down, you're shut off, you don't. You alienate yourself from your wife, which is horrible to do it's horrible.

Speaker 2: 2:31:24

And then it's like so many, like there's a lot of women out there that women guys they get into a relationship with a cop or firefighter or vet or current combat military guy and you know, it's like Ooh, I'm dating this person, like, ooh, I'm dating it for the status of it, right.

Speaker 1: 2:31:44

You don't realize what comes with it.

Speaker 2: 2:31:45

It's like you have no clue what comes with it, and it's. You're right, it's a whole subject that we could talk about another time, but it's like having a support system at home where you can freely talk about things is so rare and it needs to be. It needs to happen, because if you're open with your spouse or your significant other or whatever, if you're open with them about everything, then there's no room for like why is he shut off? Why it is? Why is he not talking to me? Oh, is he seeing someone else? So is he talking to someone else? Is this happening?

Speaker 1: 2:32:13

it eliminates a lot of the doubt. And I I had that conversation actually with tj um webb on that episode, with his wife amanda, and she said one of their big. Because I asked him, like how did you make it 19 years? I mean, yeah, they were. They met together, you know, right, as he became a cop. She was in the same field and so she did 19 years with him in the law enforcement community and I asked, like how did you make it work? And it was communication, like he would, they would talk about it and it's a huge.

Speaker 1: 2:32:42

I feel it's a huge red flag if your spouse is coming home and they're shut off from it, like you need to we use, and if you're I don't care who they are, I don't need to talk about it. Bullshit man, you're the. I know some of the toughest motherfuckers on this planet that have done some of the most craziest shit that I wish I could have them come and talk about on this episode because people would be mind blown. I'm talking being in countries with just one or two dudes.

Speaker 2: 2:33:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:33:08

Merkin, motherfuckers. These are some of the hardest dudes I know and they will cry in front of their wives, they will cry with their wives, they will tell their wives everything because it's it's healthy to be able to get all of that off of you, and when you, when you're not wearing it and you don't feel that weight, you're just a happier person, and then that reflects on everything else in life. So it's such a crucial thing. I feel, and I feel like that's a reason that I'm even here today is because of the relationship I have with my wife and being able to communicate with her like I would be one of those guys.

Speaker 2: 2:33:38

It's just yeah, I'm good, I'm good and then it creates resentment and then it creates that big time misunderstanding and hatred yeah, and then your, your two ships passing in the night and they don't know what's going on.

Speaker 1: 2:33:47

So I think that's a huge role is is being able to. And then when your husband wants to make that scary jump, fuck the, the pensions and the retirement and the, the, the yeah, or well, we got a guaranteed paycheck. Is it worth their health right? Is it worth this dude chasing a bottle every night, chasing women, chasing whatever else comes along with the community? Is that worth it?

Speaker 2: 2:34:13

No, it's not.

Speaker 1: 2:34:14

Or is knowing your husband is starting a new chapter, making less money, may not have the pension or retirement anymore, but he's happy and he comes home, loves his kids. Your relationship's great with them. What's it worth and I feel so many people get stuck in that groove of like this is this is the american dream. It's not. If you're miserable and not happy, it's not the american dream.

Speaker 2: 2:34:35

No, it's not it's a nightmare you also get addicted to the money too well, you know it's like overtime was. You could easily get checks that are four or five thousand dollars really easily, you know, and you get addicted to that money aspect where you're like I'm gonna work as much as I can you know, and and I was, like I'm young, I got no kids, no wife, like I'm going to work as much as I can you know, and then it's like that's addicting you know, we have deputies that make 250 plus a year and all they do is work and I'm like dude.

Speaker 2: 2:35:03

one the second you stop working, you're going to die. And two you don't see your family. You're constantly working. You miss baseball games, soccer games, whatever. What's it worth? And it's like dude, it's not worth it, you know.

Speaker 1: 2:35:15

That's when you hit that chapter and everybody's different. You know stages, but when you hit that chapter of just man, I really got to focus on quality of life.

Speaker 2: 2:35:22

A thousand percent.

Speaker 1: 2:35:24

Everything changes, one hundred percent Everything.

Speaker 2: 2:35:28

Everything changes and life becomes easier, so easy.

Speaker 1: 2:35:30

And then you there's so many negative comes here. I feel like, yeah, I'm good without that guy, I'm good, I don't need that group, I'm, I'm cool, I don't need to go back there. And then you start picking up on that and you're like man, that guy had a really good vibe, like we chilled and just bullshit. I don't want to be friends with him, but like I can kick it with the dude. And then you know at least that's the stage I'm at now my friend. Applications are closed, yeah yeah, yeah, I'm good.

Speaker 2: 2:35:52

I mean, it's totally like that. You know quality of life and being happy and content with where you're doing, with where you are, and what you're doing is everything to me. Like I said, like you couldn't pay me enough to get back in that uniform. I don't blame you Even if it was restarting with no history, with no past but I knew what it was I wouldn't do it, you know I just wouldn't do it.

Speaker 1: 2:36:13

I like it. It's for some and it's not for others, and and there's nothing wrong it's with everything.

Speaker 2: 2:36:18

Yeah some people love it, some people thrive in it and like that's their thing, I'm good on it.

Speaker 2: 2:36:23

I thought that was for me. Yeah, you know, and it wasn't until I actually did the job. And that's unfortunate because it's unfortunately you don't know until you're there. Yep, you know, and that's unfortunate because it's unfortunately you don't know until you're there. Yep, you know. And that's kind of where you can monday morning quarterback it like oh yeah, you could have done 30 years, no problem. It's like yeah, but you weren't there, nope I when I joined the marine corps.

Speaker 1: 2:36:43

That was my goal. I'm retiring from the marine corps. This is it eight years in.

Speaker 2: 2:36:46

I'm like, yeah, you're absolutely yeah, not it, this is not it. You know. And you become more established, you get familiar with people. People start opening up to you and telling you things you're like this is fucking worse.

Speaker 1: 2:36:57

Well, I just started really watching the leadership. Oh my god, these guys are fucking miserable. Yeah, all of them. Yeah, there's a couple I had some solid ass dudes that mentored me, but I would say the majority of them.

Speaker 2: 2:37:08

And everywhere you go, everyone's grump assholes, everyone's just an asshole and I'm like, and then it's like other people are complaining like, oh, he's a Sergeant, now, he's such a dick. This and that one Like, hey, two months ago he was sitting at the same coffee table and you guys were having the same conversation about that Sergeant. Like, so, and it's true, because we, oh, we can't trust them. Oh, this and that it's like, yeah, cool, but then they also get to a point where they're able to make their own agenda. They can actually make that kind of happen. Yeah, so people get carried away with that as well, for sure. And so, like, the admin does get very flawed in the aspect of like, people are out for their own agendas once they get to a certain point.

Speaker 1: 2:37:45

It's crazy that I have a guy that I'm trying to get on and he's very, very all about he calls out the administration of sight on police departments. I'm trying to get him on, but what's wild is I feel we have to completely hard reset all departments. I feel like they have to go under one because due to the corruption.

Speaker 2: 2:38:12

Everyone's got their own agenda because you become a politician like at a certain level, you become a politician, and it's like this is what I need to do to get, to get to the top and I'm gonna fuck everybody in the way. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it and it's sad.

Speaker 1: 2:38:22

And then you're you're leaving your boys behind or you don't? They feel you don't have their back. Yeah, and I mean, dude, it was really sad. A guy left a comment the other day. He goes my admin would rather see a dead cop than a civilian. See you, yeah, and I crushed. I'm like we don't want to see anybody dead, but like, if your own people are like, well, we'd rather sacrifice one of you. Yeah, did somebody?

Speaker 2: 2:38:45

I mean we had a deputy get shot. He got shot in the face like peppered up in the face, um, and the mayor of the city was like, thank god, the suspect is okay, is alive. This and that didn't comment on the deputy, didn't do anything, didn't say a fucking word about.

Speaker 1: 2:38:59

I'm like where, dude, come on see, then you're like putting that badge on and you're like I don't want to say this in a negative way but like you're proud, like after your mayor just is not even supporting you, like I would, I would be done immediately. We'd be done with that. There's no money, there's no position, there's no title that worth it in the world to to not have the support of your community by doing something I agree, I get it.

Speaker 1: 2:39:20

But well, dude, yeah, I really appreciate you coming on. I didn't do it in the beginning, which we normally do. Um tj, which was our guest, he won. He left me a couple books, he said, if there's ever any law enforcement. So I want to send you home with his book. Cool, are you a cigar guy? Cool, this is the, the war machine. He started, uh, platoon cigars. So he was a combat marine, got out, became a cop and he got shot in the line of duty. He's actually, I think he's going to come out next month and finally get on the on the show and then c state coffee. We'll send you home some cold brew and some of his roasted coffee beans. He's a recon marine, he's here local. Then, as always, the girls whipped you up a fresh loaf of sourdough from the Sour Bee. It's not a flavored one, but honestly, that warm with some butter on it, it fucks. Yeah, no, I'm all for it. Double X I got a fat ass. I've been holding onto this shirt for a 2X.

Speaker 2: 2:40:14

Oh really.

Speaker 1: 2:40:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:40:17

This is Is it the shirt I'm thinking of?

Speaker 1: 2:40:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:40:20

Yes.

Speaker 1: 2:40:21

Oh, it's an XL. I thought I had a 2X.

Speaker 2: 2:40:25

Shoot, I'm shriveling away. I could wear a 2X or just an X, no way. I know I have an X Bingo or just an ax, bingo.

Speaker 1: 2:40:37

Yes, I don't know if you're. What size is this? I swore this was a 2x. Yeah, 2x. I don't know if you're a religious man, but this is a badass. He's a law enforcement officer. He's still active duty. He's out of SoCal God-fearing lifting club, so he's bringing law enforcement and veterans together through fitness and trying to get everybody Bibles and go through scripture and he's doing a really cool thing. So give him a follow. He's handed me some shirts to give to some guys. I haven't had a big ass cop on yet, so except for you, sweet dude. So yeah, man, check it out. They all have scriptures on them. They're actually. I don't have that shirt, I need to get it, but yeah, it's a it's. He's a cool dude. So I give law enforcement and veteran companies just to send us stuff and to give the guests and so try to plug them for free, and so if anybody's listening, I don't know, maybe it catches on and other episodes start doing just to help out guys in the community, so it needs to be.

Speaker 2: 2:41:36

It needs to be more like that.

Speaker 1: 2:41:37

Yeah, I just feel it's until somebody wants to pay us, um, start making money on this. No, I'm just kidding. But yeah, dude, I really appreciate your time. Man, this is an incredible story, it's. It's like you look at a guy like you in the gym. There's this big ass fucking gorilla in there, and you know, and everybody just wants to kind of like, oh yes, there's a big meathead.

Speaker 1: 2:41:56

But you know, and I'm not meaning that, you're fine, you're fine but yeah, I mean but you hear your story, man, it's incredible and the shit you've had to deal with and see as a law enforcement officer and I I'm really grateful for you to come on and just share some of those stories because more people need to hear what the hell our law enforcement are going through every day. And it's so funny because if you rewind 10, 15 years ago, I mean I was just fucked. Well, yeah, I ran any chance I had. I mean I'm doing it. Just yeah, I was.

Speaker 1: 2:42:28

It was all my fault, I was every I was that it was all my fault. I was. Every time I got pulled I'm like fuck, they got me, you know, like whatever. But as we've grown and I have with our charity, we have a law enforcement program that helps cops get free training and that like really opened my eyes to these guys writing into us and how they get no support and any of that. And then now with the podcast, just just having a conversation with a guy.

Speaker 2: 2:42:59

Yeah, I'm just every time I'm blown away by what cops are dealing with and it's just there is a very large lack of um accountability for sure admin departments and how they take care of their guys. You know, yeah, they take care of them training, wise, vacation, sick time, whatever.

Speaker 1: 2:43:06

Yeah, that's cool, but as far as taking care of them as a human being, there's there's a very large lacking just so sad, so sad and like I, I was joking about with a buddy not too long I'm like, like you take cops, like you know, old old school cop show live pd. Yeah, I feel that is such an injustice to how real policing is because oh, let's tune in to Fort Lauderdale and some guy's chasing a dude and tackles him in a.

Speaker 2: 2:43:34

That's not. I don't hear any of that shit.

Speaker 1: 2:43:37

Like it's the going into a room with this teenage girl overdose. That's the stuff they're not showing Like. I think live PD needs to be showing more of the reality of what's going on, because I feel, as this country're just like oh, they're cops, they're great, yeah, they're he's good. No, you're good, good, cool, yeah, and we move on with our lives, signed up for that job.

Speaker 2: 2:43:58

You did that job. You're like okay, well, I didn't sign up for that part of it, and to just be ignored.

Speaker 1: 2:44:03

Yep, you know and like yeah, I didn't sign up to be hated on just because I'm wearing a uniform. I didn't sign up to yeah, to have to not help people and I'm the bad guy in every situation. I'm sure most cops sign that dotted line and because they want to help their community right you want to protect and serve your community.

Speaker 1: 2:44:21

I get it and and that's the protecting and serving is probably you're just dealing with the bull. I mean, I guess the servings probably has come with the bullshit. But yeah, nobody's signing you don't know you're what.

Speaker 1: 2:44:31

You're the bull, I mean. I guess the servings probably has come with the bullshit, but nobody's signing. You don't know what you're signing up for? I mean you do, but the ins and outs of dealing with a homeless person with MRSA and some dead dude fell in between his bed and rotting all summer Like that's not in the fucking, that's not in the recruiting videos that you're watching. Sign it up for it.

Speaker 2: 2:44:48

I remember this was a long time ago and it was a retired law enforcement guy who was given like a speech, inspirational speech, and he described it like this because he did have military background and you could probably touch base on this a little bit more. He's like there's a difference between military and law enforcement. In the aspect of military goes on tour, you guys are gone for six months and then you leave the shit behind, whereas law enforcement, they're on tour Every day, 365 days a year, and they don't get to leave that behind.

Speaker 1: 2:45:20

And you're in your community doing it and it's in your community.

Speaker 2: 2:45:22

And you're doing it where you live, and he's like there's a very big difference between being able to go somewhere and then leave it behind versus having to deal with it, cause, I guarantee you, every cop on their day off Fuck, I was just home a couple of weeks ago and I was showing the girlfriend and as I'm driving to the gym, I was like I've arrested him, arrested him, I've dealt with him, you know, and it's like I haven't been, I haven't done that job in years and I'm still able to pinpoint like, yeah, I've, I've talked to him, I've arrested him this and that, and it's like I don't get that escape. Yeah, you know, and so, like law enforcement, we don't get that escape. I guarantee you every cop that is in Sonoma County or in the County that they work wherever they are on their days off they've had.

Speaker 1: 2:46:13

You know, and it's like you don't have that. That sucks, you don't have that tour. Yeah, very unfortunate. I don't know what needs to change in this country if cops need to fall under and I've talked about it and kind of brought it up before if cops need to fall under almost like government, like like the military style, where it's across the board, they get the va, they get the benefits, because you I mean just because we're going to combat and we're fighting in some foreign country, we get everything provided for us. But it's you guys are doing, dealing with way more shit than 99 of veterans.

Speaker 2: 2:46:41

I would love to see some organization come together where it's promoting some sort of mental health thing, where it's just like hey, man, you had a bad day at work.

Speaker 1: 2:46:50

Like let's just talk about it and make it more open and more non-taboo because I think you're not getting crucified or going to be punished for being able to communicate, because that's the biggest thing that I have. I have the hardest time wrapping my mind around. The law enforcement community is you're. You're expected to do so many shitty things, but then you can't talk about her, go get help about it, because then you're labeled and you're flagged and then that goes in your record and whatever else, but that's a whole other rabbit hole. But, dude, I appreciate your time. Man. This is a great conversation. I really glad we got to get to know each other and and and shoot the shit. And if you ever need anything from us, you know where I'm at and uh, yeah, I'm sure I'll see you later in the gym.

Speaker 2: 2:47:37

So yeah, I'll be there, but thank you, live there yeah, thanks, dude, I I really appreciate your time.

Speaker 1: 2:47:42

This was, this was an eye-opener and I think a lot of people are gonna be able to relate to a lot of this, and it's just it's and it's guys like you telling your story and being able to come out and be open with it, and I I hope that encourages more law enforcement cops.

Speaker 2: 2:48:00

Yeah, I don't, that's whatever to be able to think of my story as anything crazy or special, but like if I dude, if some person, one person, relates to it, then I'm okay with that I'm sure they will dude so thank you for having me appreciate it always man.

Speaker 1: 2:48:13

Thank you, this was great man this was a. This was a good one, real raw. I like that. I like it too.