#68 - What Burns Beneath: The Untold Story of Firefighter Life w/Rafael Gordon

From life-or-death decisions to navigating departmental politics, Rafael pulls back the curtain on his 27-year career as a San Francisco firefighter paramedic in this captivating conversation about service, sacrifice, and survival.

Rafael's journey began in 1990 as a paramedic with no intention of joining the fire department. When the city merged emergency services in 1997, he found himself thrust into a hostile environment where paramedics were viewed with suspicion and resentment by traditional firefighters. "There were fistfights," Rafael recalls, describing the decade-long tension that followed the controversial merger.

The weight of responsibility in emergency services becomes starkly apparent as Rafael shares his experiences delivering death notifications and making split-second medical decisions. One particularly haunting story involves his first time telling a young woman her boyfriend had died from an overdose. "When you tell somebody their family member is dead, they'll never forget that moment," he explains, emphasizing how critical empathy becomes in these devastating circumstances.

Perhaps most gripping is Rafael's account of his own brush with death during a gas explosion response. Separated from his crew in pitch darkness as his oxygen supply dwindled, he experienced a surreal moment of calm while wondering, "Is this where it ends?" His matter-of-fact recounting of the incident reveals the psychological resilience required of first responders who routinely face mortality.

Beyond the emergencies themselves, Rafael offers candid insights into the politics affecting emergency services, the realities of homelessness and addiction in San Francisco, and the surprising ways social media has transformed public interactions with first responders. Now retired and pursuing a second career in scalp micropigmentation, his story stands as a powerful testament to finding purpose after decades of high-stress service.

What will stay with you long after listening is Rafael's remarkable ability to maintain his humanity despite regularly witnessing tragedy. His journey reminds us that behind every emergency response is a person making difficult choices while carrying the emotional weight of a community's most devastating moments.

To follow Rafael and his incredible journey: 

INSTAGRAM- @optimized_smp

TIKTOK- @http://tiktok.com/@optimized_4_impact

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Rafael's Career
• 17:32 Path from Paramedic to Firefighter
• 36:14 Delivering Death Notifications
• 52:37 Near-Death Experience in the Fire
• 1:07:31 Responding to Unusual Emergencies
• 1:22:23 Navigating San Francisco Homelessness Crisis
• 1:39:11 Politics in the Fire Department
• 1:53:42 Life After Retirement
• 2:15:05 Finding New Purpose Post-Career
• 2:31:46 Social Media and Today's World

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

Rafael, is that how you say it? Sure, you say it with a twang. Or the Rafael the Rafael. Call me Rafa, I don't. Whatever you want, man Rafael yeah all right man, welcome to the show. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 0:21

I'm honored to be here yeah, I, I, we.

Speaker 1: 0:24

We met at an event with Victor which was a great guest. He's been one of my favorites so far on the show, just how real and vulnerable and raw he was. But you're a firefighter out of San Francisco Firefighter paramedic. Paramedic. You did 27 years as a firefighter and three or four years as a paramedic, correct?

Speaker 2: 0:49

Actually I four years as a paramedic, correct. Actually I started off as a paramedic okay, most guys do, yeah, I started off and my intention was not to go into the fire department, really no, I just wanted to become a paramedic. Uh, I became an emt in 1990 okay, 1991 I went to ucsf paramedic school. They opened up a paramedic school which was funded by the government, you know, um, and all you had to do was commit to working for three months for your, and it was a company called King American Ambulance.

Speaker 2: 1:08

And I worked with them for a year, went to San Mateo, worked at a 911 company over there. The ultimate goal was to go to Department of Public Health.

Speaker 2: 1:16

They were the highest paid municipal ambulance company in the country and it was a cool place to work you know, it was gritty and you know gritty and everybody you work with these veterans that were just salty but they knew what they were doing. So that was the cool part. Well, in 1997, they came up with this idea to merge with the fire department. Oh, okay, and the way they described it, they said it was a budget looking for a mission and a mission looking for a budget because the fires were contained. There's still a lot of fires, don't?

Speaker 1: 1:50

get me wrong, but to add volume to your calls to justify the budget, you got to add medical. Oh, it's 80 percent of the sense okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 1:53

If you have, let's say, 300 calls for service in a day, I'm going to just go on a limb and say 225 to 250 of them will be medical makes sense.

Speaker 1: 2:02

I mean, we I had a conversation not too long with a buddy of mine and I feel we're so I don't want to say protected, but it's not like there's a fire breaking out in neighborhoods and I can be completely speaking out of my ass and firefighters like I go on five a day, depending where you're at, but it's not like you're seeing a burning house every single day in the city. Yeah, obviously there's little things that pop off. So medical is a huge and I've had, I've had a couple of um first responders on and I mean they're going in homes and dealing with everything, which is what I love hearing these stories every you name it, and so let don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say there's no fires, because san francisco still has some very high risk wood fray.

Speaker 2: 2:42

uh, and I've been on some fires that were insane and people make mistakes. I remember in the like, right around 2005, 2006, the cannabis industry, that people started doing the growth.

Speaker 1: 2:53

In homes, in homes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:54

And what was happening was their electricity was getting overloaded. Boom, so the place would go up on fire at two in the morning. Okay, you know because they got those sodium lights and all that stuff that are just drawing too much. So it's not like here, where most of the like in this area, like your house here or my house, is probably 12, 15 years old or whatever. That's new technology. But if you have a house that's 70, 80 years old it could be a problem.

Speaker 1: 3:20

Yeah, your breaker's already struggling, and then they start adding on to it. What made you want to be a paramedic in the first place?

Speaker 2: 3:27

That's a great question. So I used to watch emergency on TV when I was a kid and I thought it was the coolest thing I wanted to. I just love that. You're the guy. When you're a paramedic, you make the decisions right. Everything, every decision is on you Now. In the olden days you used to, if you didn't know, you'd call up your base, just like they did. They'd call Rampart and ask the doctor for advice. Well, it evolved to where you're almost 100% autonomous, unless there was something really, you know, sketchy. So you get onto a call and you make a decision on what's happening based on what's going on. It could be anything. It could be something very simple, it could be something very complicated. So the crap is on you to make that decision and hopefully it comes with a good outcome.

Speaker 1: 4:13

Do you remember your first call? I know it's been a while. Do you remember your first paramedic call?

Speaker 2: 4:19

as a brand new on the job, paramedic, I don't remember my first call, but I remember when I was in my internship and I was the lead paramedic, being supervised by two paramedics, and it wasn't the first one but it was definitely the most memorable one and it was in the city. I was interning with a department of public health before I got hired with them and we went for an overdose call. And it was just two, it was a couple, it was a 20, I think they were like 27 or 28. They both were doing heroin. The guy died and my preceptor turned to me. I think it was in my second week of doing it. He goes go tell her that her boyfriend's dead and I'm like what.

Speaker 2: 5:06

You know, you know, and we had a heavy load. A heavy load to tell somebody, hey, this person that you love is no longer with us. We had trained and you know you got to use the right wording and all that. You don't say pass away. You say hey, I'm sorry he's dead. You know, and I remember having to tell her that and that was my first time and moving way forward, I was always the guy to do it because I had that experience early on. They always turned to me like, hey, raf, you gotta go tell the family that's a shitty job.

Speaker 2: 5:31

You know it is, but if you, if you know how to reach people and touch people, then, it becomes you want to do it the right way, because you have to remember, like when you tell somebody that their family member is dead, they, they'll never forget that moment, ever, never. So if you do it the right way, with empathy and with feeling and like you care, then it's a better experience for them rather than hey, sorry, he's gone, which I've seen.

Speaker 1: 5:59

I've seen people do that For sure, and that's where I guess my next question is going to be. Is I mean, did you ever is it hard to always have that face on, because I feel you fast forward 27 years of telling people that they lost a loved one, a husband, father, child, whatever it may be? Does it, did it ever get numb to you, or did you make sure that you continue to have that passion every time that you told somebody?

Speaker 2: 6:27

I was always like, empathetic. I always kept a level of empathy. There's different situations. You could have someone who's dead and they don't have any family members there. That was usually the drug overdoses or stuff. But you know, because you know I grew up with mom and dad and all that or stuff. But you know because you know, I grew up with mom and dad and all that. So when I had to tell, I remember telling. A lot of times you tell a wife that their husband passed away and let's say they were in their 80s and they've been together for 40 or 50 years. That's a hard thing to do sure, like I mean, I felt emotional when I was doing it. Like you know, it's you can disconnect okay, I get it, we can disconnect and not carry it on to the next day, but you still feel for these people we say that right, and I talk to a lot of cops and stuff on here and vets and I don't know if I buy that.

Speaker 1: 7:11

You know people say it and I see it in the comments like I never had a problem with it. It's like that's now. Maybe now you don't, but I mean as a human and you you're dealing with it every single day. I feel eventually either you just become numb to it or it really starts to affect in some sort of way. But I don't know if I buy that. You know, like you see, these cops and some of them are, oh, the job never affected me and it's like I'm always thinking like how, how does it not?

Speaker 2: 7:40

I mean, if you have so a lot of people put up a barrier, right For sure. I remember I was captain for a while and then I would. This crew went on a baby, a baby that died. I think it was a SIDS case, and I said, hey, you guys want to talk about this. You want me to call, you know, the stress unit? Oh man, we're good dude. That was just another death, you know. Well, no, it's not, but that's their choice. If they don't want help, I'm not going to force it on them. You know, that's a lesson I learned in life a long time ago you can't want something more for someone than they want it for themselves.

Speaker 2: 8:13

That's a deep lesson I learned and we can talk about that. But, um, yeah, I when I say disconnect, I go meaning not take it on to the next day. And after that, be true with your feelings like, yeah, this sucked man, this it. I hated telling that old lady that her husband's dead because that was her world, you know. So, um, and then process it and then move on. Yeah, that's all there's to it, yeah how bad did you see?

Speaker 1: 8:39

I don't know where to start with you, man. There's so many. We got so many directions to go, so okay, so you became a paramedic.

Speaker 2: 8:45

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:46

Did that for three years before the merger became with the fire department.

Speaker 2: 8:50

Well, like six years, yeah, oh, six years, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay. So 91, I certified 97,. 98 is when we merged and it was a contentious and rough merger.

Speaker 1: 9:01

Why is?

Speaker 2: 9:01

that. So San Francisco has a history of culture in certain ways, and so they didn't want us, the crews and you know, beginning the front line, did not want us coming in. Part of the okay part of the thing was hey, you guys are all smart guys, because you um, I remember them telling us is you know, you have to do your book, study and all this. You're going to come in and take our promotions and we're like dude, we're not even thinking about that. They want to dismantle the Department of Public Health and merge us together.

Speaker 1: 9:36

So you're technically losing your jobs by but keeping a job by transferring over then Right. So now you have beef between the fire department and paramedics. Dude, it was.

Speaker 2: 9:46

I mean it got to fistfights. There were fistfights. Really I wasn't involved, but there were fistfights.

Speaker 1: 9:51

Because the firefighters think that you guys are going to come in and I'll take your job. Because you guys are technically smarter, because you got to learn the medicine and everything that comes along with it, and then now you're competing in a way, not really so okay um, where was the beef?

Speaker 2: 10:06

I'll tell you. I'll just break it down. So the san francisco, like I said, was very as as progressive as they say they are. They were very reluctant to change. Okay, so when, when minorities came in and when women came in, they were a protected class and nobody could say anything, got it. But there was an underlying like heat about that, like there was some underlying animosity okay, we came in there's, we were not a protected class.

Speaker 2: 10:30

So they used to call us the effing medics all the times. And I mean I remember sitting at tables when they're playing cards and if they got a joker at a car, they go oh, I got a medic, you know what I mean. And so they turned into this, into this beef. Now it's not like that anymore, for sure. Yeah, but it lasted 10 years or more, really. Yeah, in the beginning that's a long time.

Speaker 2: 10:49

Oh, it was hostile for a while, so you had to either, you know, put up or, you know, challenge people or whatever, yeah, so I mean, it's just so, in the beginning we had to file a lawsuit because they didn't train us to be firefighters initially, and so there's a federal law that says, well, unless you're a firefighter, you can't work these 24-hour shifts. So we said, hey, you promised us that you would train us. Well, what typical like what the city does are like okay, cool, we got you guys, we've got your calls, now we're not going to train you. Fine, flsa, it's a federal labor standard act. We filed, they lost. So then they trained us right. Then they didn't put us on the engines, they kept us working on the ambulances.

Speaker 1: 11:33

So is that how they wanted it originally? When you guys merged, you were just ambulance crew and then the firefighters did their thing, but you're under one roof. Is that how they tried to have it at first?

Speaker 2: 11:43

No, they sold it to us that we will train you as firefighters and you will be on the engines. I think what happened is they didn't really have a big plan. They just told us what we wanted to hear, because we said we were working 10 and 12-hour shifts, man For sure. Then it turned into 24. Now, when you're working a 24 on an ambulance, it's a big difference than working on an engine or a truck well, an engine might go on one or two, maybe 10 calls at a lot even if they go on 20 calls.

Speaker 2: 12:09

Let's say, like some of the busier engines, like the downtown units are, they're constantly going, they get there and they're done, they get there and they're done. And whereas I'm getting there on the ambulance, I'm diagnosing, I'm going to the hospital each calls an hour or more, and I gotta do paperwork and blah blah. So so you guys are stretched thin. Yes, okay, running calls, and I'm tired and I've got two kids at home and a wife and I'm coming home and I'm angry because I'm not sleeping, you know, um. So then we followed another one saying okay, so now that you've trained us, you're still not letting us on onto the engines. So now they were forced to. So it evolved. But like everything with the city, if you don't take them to task, legally they'll never do it For sure, politics involved Politics because they don't care.

Speaker 2: 12:59

It's taxpayer money. So what if we have to pay millions of dollars? So what, right, it's not my money yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:05

So do you think the lawsuits hurt the situation? Initially because now the firefighters are like oh, you guys are suing just so you can get your way.

Speaker 2: 13:15

I mean absolutely so that that threw fuel on the fire, but you guys had to file those lawsuits in order to so initially there was 30 of us and I I remember a guy, a good friend of mine, who I'm still friends with today, but at the time he goes, oh, you guys are the dirty 30 30, 30 what?

Speaker 2: 13:31

was the dirty 30 and so years later, initially it was like that, but years later they go. Okay, I got, he came and apologized to me. He goes you know what? I'm sorry, dude, that was absolutely mandatory, that's what you guys did and I I apologize for spreading he would give out lists. Here's the dirty 30. Here are the guys. He was kind of sucking up to the crews where I was like no, I'm going to stand up for myself, you know, and it made a huge difference. So today it was because of our work that things are getting along better right now.

Speaker 1: 14:09

If you didn't do anything, then you, you're just gonna you just be their whooping boy. You know, absolutely so. So that animosity went on for 10 years, so at least yeah. So once you got in, the merge happen. What's life like in the firehouse now that you went from a private company running paramedics? Now you're under the roof with firefighters what, what was? Was that dynamic like?

Speaker 2: 14:27

It would depend on what station you went to. If you went to some of the, you know the busier downtown station it was. And then the other thing was who you were. I didn't have problem because I was a city boy. I was born and raised over there. The guy, a lot of guys knew me, but there were people that weren't that they were hated, like they were abused and there were stories of like they would take their food and throw it away and like really nasty stuff and they were mad because the bell keeps going off, the bells for the.

Speaker 2: 14:54

What they didn't realize is like fire, the fire engines would correspond with us when we were at DPH, only on code three calls. Well, code three calls might have been 40 percent of our calls. There's 60 percent that are code two. So code three meaning cardiac arrests, stabbing, shootings, stuff like that. Well, code two could be some. You know I got a tummy ache, okay. So we'd go there without lights and sirens. So I told these guys I go, yeah, it's not like you guys go out, I go, no, we do we go, do we go out? A lot, you just don't realize that. So when the fire department took over, now everything is code three and they're going with us, so their call volume doubled, or more. So now they're pissed off over that.

Speaker 1: 15:31

Stop right I get it. I don't get to just chill anymore.

Speaker 2: 15:33

I get it, yeah right they sold us the the bill, they go. Oh, if you go to this station, it's chateau relaxo and there was no such thing. Nothing, I'm tired, dude, right, like you're up for 19, 20 hours out of 24, you I would. I would get upset because I'm seeing guys work out and I cannot work out. You go in and do one set, the bell goes off. You know, so there was no point. So it just compounded. Um, but I guess, like anything dude there's gonna you have to have a little bit of pain in order to make something work, you know.

Speaker 1: 16:05

Every time, every time, and that's life. I mean, that's when you get comfortable and you get complacent and nothing grows. Nothing changes.

Speaker 1: 16:13

But, when changes happen, people are uncomfortable, they're stressed, they're irritable. I mean, there's so many that's what I think a lot of people don't realize when it comes to growth of how uncomfortable it is. But it's such a great thing because it's pulling you out of your comfort zone, it's pulling you out of your habits and routines. And then that's when that's and I feel that's where a lot of people don't grow and they don't change, just because of that uncomfortable feeling. Yeah, and it sucks of the stress, the worry, every we just we're walking from everything. You know those feelings and like, okay, we got to join into this. Or you know, in the military it's like, oh, we got to, we're getting a bunch of guys from this platoon. Or hey, you're going to this platoon now. And you're like, fuck, just got used to all these guys, I got the whole. We know everybody, everybody's flowing. And then everything gets changed up, up and you're pissed off.

Speaker 1: 17:01

you take it out on all the junior guys and then within a couple of months you got a whole new flow going anyways, but it's yeah, I could only, but I could imagine for as firefighters, because those guys are so prideful. And then I I got a really good buddy of mine that just became a firefighter at the end of last year and he's still in his uh, testing stages in salt lake where he's trying out all the different firehouses before they could put their bid in or whatever, to go to a house and I I talked to him constantly and he's like man.

Speaker 1: 17:29

It's the greatest thing, because it's the crews are so different. Every house is different. There's a different vibe and atmosphere for everything and totally.

Speaker 2: 17:37

I mean I did a lot of training with those guys in salt lake because I I did a stint at the airport, at san francisco airport, just to calm things down, because we were on the ambulance. So I went out there for a few years and we would go to Salt Lake because it was an FAA thing that we had to go every year. And do they call it a live fire burn.

Speaker 2: 17:54

And they don't do it in San Francisco and California because they can't burn, it's all some EPA, whatever you know. So they go to Salt Lake or Dallas. So we would train with them. I know, dude, it's ridiculous. And so we'd go to Salt Lake, and if you ever land at their airport, they have an airport firehouse where they've got like a propane airplane that lights up, and it was actually pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 18:14

Those guys were nice guys. But you could go to any firehouse in America and it's the same thing. It's the same. You know, woe is me. And firefighters complain. We complain all the time. Dude, that's everybody, everybody right, cops are the same way and that's what my both of my kids now are in the department. Oh, that's cool. And the first thing I told them I go, don't get involved in the gossip and stop complaining. I go. You'd be so because I fell into it. I was part of that problem.

Speaker 1: 18:44

What was as far as firefighting once, you became into that and everything got settled, and now you're going out on the end. You're on an engine, right? Yeah, what was that like?

Speaker 2: 18:59

It was way more accepting. Once that happened, everything was 90% better. There was still a little bit of the anti-paramedic animosity, but once you're as a crew, as you know, when you're a platoon or a company, I mean it's like all right, you're not really the outsider anymore. You hear a little bit about okay, you guys make more money. You know the jealousy thing, right, it's always if someone makes 15% more, the mumbles start to happen and I would just tell people I go, you can go become a paramedic. Well, it's too hard, I go, then don't complain.

Speaker 1: 19:32

Right, I did it. That's why I'm getting paid more.

Speaker 2: 19:34

Right, I got way more responsibility. If something goes wrong, who's the first person they're going to talk to Me? Yeah, going to talk to me. Yeah, right, if I gave the wrong medicine, they're not coming to you, coming to me, you know. So I mean, I think that even happened with that whole george floyd thing, that paramedics did something. They went after them, like you know, it's pretty bad. You know which, whatever, that's another subject. Yeah, um, yeah that's.

Speaker 1: 19:58

It's interesting that you know that people it's just the mindset, because they feel we're all doing, you're all doing the same job, but at the same time you're a paramedic, went through all that extra training, have all that extra responsibility, and they're like well, you're making more than me, we do the same thing. We're not like, but you can go get certified and they won't. That's yeah, that's just.

Speaker 2: 20:18

That's just the human mind of of jealousy and I remember a guy saying we'll never accept you guys until we see one of your names on the memorial wall, like, in other words, until you, until one of you guys dies in the line of fire and I'm thinking really fucking horrible thing to say. You know, and, um, one of us did in 2011. These two guys one of them was a medic, I knew him very well and the lieutenant they went into a fire and they got melted, literally like it was a horrific. So after that, things kind of calmed down. It was just like, okay, these guys are part of it. Right, it could happen to any one of us over there. Yeah, it was, oh shit. I knew the guys that went in on that, on that call, and there was.

Speaker 1: 21:00

They were wrecked after that did you ever have a close call?

Speaker 2: 21:02

I did. How was that? I was 50 years old.

Speaker 2: 21:07

I'm 57 now I was 50. And we went to this. It was a gas explosion. I guess one of the whatever cell phone companies were digging and they hit a gas pipe and it was a huge explosion and there were two, three buildings that got exposed two, three buildings that got exposed. So we were the first unit that went in and we were trying to. We went into the rafters and we were knocking down the fire because everything was coming this way. So if the explosion was here, the building's here, and then all of a sudden I'm on this little ladder with a hose and it just goes like dark. You know, they had, mistakenly, the chief uh ordered the truck to take the pipe and shoot water down on us, which is a big no. No, you shouldn't do that. But that's, mistakes happen. And so the next thing I know I'm calling out for my crew and there's nobody there and it's pitch black. The only thing that we didn't like, I remember it wasn't hot, but it was dark and my vibra alert went off which is what vibra alert.

Speaker 2: 22:07

So you have your scbas, your breathing apparatus, and when, when you're about three or four minutes from like running out of air, it goes like that means get the hell out of there it's time to go. Yeah and um, it's dark and it I mean. So it was weird. I had this calmness. I was like is this where it ends?

Speaker 2: 22:24

I asked myself that I had this strange calmness, but then it kicks in. Ok, drop down, find the hose and just crawl out. So I did, but I ran out of air. That was probably about as close as I came, really, yeah. And so what happened was the lieutenant who was a great lieutenant told the probie, grab Raph and let's get out of here. So he grabbed somebody else. He thought because he couldn't see anything, he just grabbed the guy and they go. So they get out, they go out to wherever they were.

Speaker 1: 22:53

And they left you behind.

Speaker 2: 22:54

They left me behind. The lieutenant later on was like dude, we were calling for you and all that, and I'm like dude. You know it was kind of a surreal. I'll never forget that moment, you know.

Speaker 1: 23:04

It's kind of that come to.

Speaker 2: 23:05

Jesus moment. Right, yeah, it was like it's over, like this is it? I'm like damn, is this it? I thought it was going to be like a little bit more, you know, dramatic than me just suffocating in a dark room, suffocating in a dark room.

Speaker 1: 23:17

That's pretty sketched, though, I mean.

Speaker 1: 23:19

I give much credit the firefighters and paramedics and the law enforcement, because it's that's why I love having these conversations, because I feel we see you every day you see the fire trucks, we drive by the firehouses, we pass the cops, we see the paramedics, but nobody truly knows what's going on, how their life is going, and so that's why I love having these conversations, just to try to bring some light on it, because, I mean, you never think of that type of stuff and it's just such little things and I'm sure over the 27 years that you've had, I mean, how many situations you've seen just the simplest mistakes or, yeah, things that are going on that we, as the civilian population, we're just cruising along, you know, and they look to you guys in the military, though, when you're overseas, for sure.

Speaker 2: 24:08

You know, and I mean, you could, just like you, have this great calmness about you, guys are playing chess or whatever, backgammon or whatever, and then, bam, the thing rings off. You know, yeah, I hated it, like 2 in the morning, things would happen. I'm like, oh man, and that's as. As I got a little older, I started realizing I don't want to do this anymore. You know, the sleep thing is a big issue. What were your shifts? 24s, so you.

Speaker 2: 24:32

I forgot the name of it, but you would work 24 hours and then get 48 hours off, and then every like third, you'd get three days off and then another, then you get four days off. So, but a 24 hour shift you're done the next day. I don't care. Even at slow stations, like when I was at the airport, we weren't that busy, but you've always got one eye open, you know, yeah. And so I just remember, like the next morning there'd be like this cloud in front of you. You couldn't think right. I learned don't make decisions Like don't go out and buy a expensive car or anything, because, and then it it turns into this uh, eating thing too, because when you're really tired and miserable, you start eating garbage, you know, and processed foods and um, I wasn't always a healthy guy, you know, and once I got out of that, I I have sleep apnea and I didn't realize that until like 2018, and that changed my life, when I realized that.

Speaker 2: 25:27

That's a great story, though, and so I believe you know they hear a lot of cancer stuff with firefighters. A lot of it is definitely what you're exposed to. You know, god forbid this place goes on fire. All of these things have chemicals in them. Oh for sure. Your paint, your electricity, your couches, everything, Insulation I mean everything Right Drywall, everything, and that stuff. There was a big push to make sure you cleaned your turnouts and all that stuff, because there's lasting effects. But one thing that's not talked about is sleep deprivation, and that is a carcinogen. It's classified as some kind of a carcinogen. It's classified as some kind of a carcinogen. Not a carcinogen, yeah. A carcinogen where people could get cancer from that yeah, I believe it, for sure.

Speaker 2: 26:12

You're not sleeping, you get that sleep apnea. If you ever know people that have that, make sure they get treated, because I remember going and the doctor goes dude, you go apneic for 30 seconds, your oxygen saturation drops into the 80s. You're not breathing, so I go. So I never forget he's this little Asian dude and he looks at me and he goes. What would you do to me if I came across this table and I started choking you? So I laughed, I go, I beat the shit out of you and he goes. Well, that's what's happening to you 45 times an hour every night really. And I go okay, I'll take the c-pub. He was right, you know he goes. You'll get high blood pressure, you'll get this, this, that and the other, you know, um, and so I think the sleep not sleeping for 24 hours is effect can affect people oh for sure.

Speaker 1: 27:02

So for sure, you know, yeah, that's crazy to think about, because I mean, it's your job and these guys deal with it for a whole career. And I mean you look at firefighters and cops, I mean these guys that are working night shifts and god, you're up all night. Then you got to come home during the day and you got kids at home and tired, tired and exhausted and yeah, I'd say that wears on you over time.

Speaker 1: 27:22

What were you doing at the airport as a paramedic or a firefighter? What did they need you there for?

Speaker 2: 27:29

So San Francisco is a busy airport. San Francisco and every airport, depending on their classification and what type of aircraft they have, requires you by FAA to have so many firefighters and so many apparatus.

Speaker 2: 27:45

So let's say you lend a bunch of 747s and triple sevens and all that you know they do a calculation and you this is you require firefighting apparatus, you don't require medical, but now that we've got paramedics, why not have paramedics? So we were busy, but a lot of the stuff. It was weird because you go from going into people's houses to getting a buzzer go off and an incoming flight is coming in and they'll be here in 10 minutes and somebody passed out on an airplane. That happens all the time, right, but other real emergencies would happen. Like you know, people, whatever, they had vertigo or something and they passed out.

Speaker 1: 28:24

What's a real emergency that you guys are getting called to at the airport?

Speaker 2: 28:28

I mean, you get cardiac arrest all the time. Really, that's a phenomenal, phenomenal thing over there, because they have defibrillators, auto defibs, everywhere Okay, and I have never in my life seen so many people actually come back to life from a cardiac arrest, because usually if somebody calls from their house for a cardiac arrest, it's going to take on average seven to eight minutes for somebody to come in.

Speaker 2: 28:53

So, some people say, oh, cpr is the most important thing. Cpr is important, right, but electricity is really what makes a difference. I never did any stats, but I'm going to guess that 40 to 50% of the cardiac arrest that I went on walked out of the hospital.

Speaker 1: 29:08

Really yeah, from the airport. Yeah, because you got caught on the plane or they're just there.

Speaker 2: 29:12

That close, let's say they're on the plane and it's, you know they're dead. They're dead. Probably you know, but if you're in the airport, every 100 feet there's a defibrillator and the cops are trained to use a defibrillator. We might be in the firehouse, but cops all the time would zap these people and they're like you get there, they go. I swear, rob, this guy was dead, I go okay, I believe you.

Speaker 2: 29:33

He's alive and now he's looking at me right, so that's a real emergency. But we would also get pulmonary embolisms a lot, and so what happens is when you go in the air, your blood thickens. Now, if you're not in good shape or you've got preexisting conditions, that's actually probably the worst thing to see ever, because imagine you're on a I don't know, let's say, 10 hour flight. Okay, you don't get up. This is why it's important to move when you're on an airplane. You don't get up, your blood starts to get thick. You get up when it's time to walk out.

Speaker 2: 30:09

By the time you get to the jetway, you collapse. And we're waiting for you and we see it, you know, and they'll turn like a different color and they're always like reaching up to you and you know they're going to. There's nothing you can do. They're going to die. You work them up, take them to the hospital, hospital, so they shoot a clot and it just it's a horrific thing. You know to watch. Yeah, that clot will go into their lungs and it it's not a, it's not a pretty thing. So, um, it's not. We didn't see that every day, but when we saw it, we knew it was happening it was often enough to realize oh, you do exactly what you know, what's happening like and then you're looking at this guy or gal and you're like you're

Speaker 2: 30:45

not saying it, but you know they're dead, they're gonna die. Right, it's weird because they're looking at you, they're awake, but there's probably, unless you can get them to an operating table, there's not much you can do for them. That's rough, yeah, so it's stuff like that. Um, I think the craziest call I ever had at the airport, like insane dude, um, I, you know the jetways that extend and they go into the airplane. They, they, they extend and then they attach to the airplane. They're on wheels and they weigh tons. A cleaning crew lady, uh, rested her, um, like I don't think it was like her broom or something, and she went as it was moving. She went to grab it and it ran her over and so the top of her legs it was sitting on top of her when I got there and so if her legs were this big now they were this big, they were like pancakes.

Speaker 1: 31:40

Really.

Speaker 2: 31:41

And I remember getting there and looking at her and she was just like catatonic, like awake, right. So there's a perfect example of how you have to improvise when you do stuff because you can't put her in a splint. So now I've got to tell the guy we had to give medicine before because there's a crush protocol, because if, if you take the heavy weight off, they're going to release a bunch of toxins. So we give medicines prior to releasing them.

Speaker 1: 32:10

Oh, I never knew that, yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:11

And there was a supervisor there from the ambulance company and we worked together really well. And then we got two IVs on her and started pumping drugs in her, had them, move the jetway and put her legs in plastic bags. That bad, that bad, that bad. Like you couldn't splint them. I mean they were crushed.

Speaker 1: 32:29

So what's okay. So, as as just like a, I'm trying to like, imagine, like, what's going in your head, like, has there ever been a time where this is a perfect example, like when they move the jetway? Are you ever just like, oh god like, or do you just have to play it cool? I mean, you're seeing, it's so unnatural to see when a body's disformed or been in an accident or something like that. Do you, I mean, has there ever been a situation where you're like, oh, fucking hell, like this is a bad one, or you just keep it cool the whole entire time? Oh, you keep cool the whole time.

Speaker 2: 33:00

I mean because you know you, you're in a mode, like when I got into a mode I was problem. There's a problem we have to solve this problem and let's get this done. There was no no in between. You know what I mean. Like I, I looked at it. What's the end goal here?

Speaker 2: 33:16

and let's handle this problem and later on you can talk about it yeah like I think with that call I had a partner that didn't know what they were doing and I let her have it. Okay, I let her have it because she didn't know how to spike the IV bag and after the call I just went off on her when I came back because I went to the hospital and then she went and complained to me after the lieutenant, who happened to be one of my best friends and he goes well.

Speaker 2: 33:39

What happened? He goes well. I didn't know how to spike a bag, he goes. What did you expect him to do? Like pat you on the back, you know? So good job. Yeah, and I didn't care, like what are you gonna do? I didn't like call her names or anything. I'm like what was that? What was that? Was your mom and the and the assistant didn't know how to do that. So, um, I wonder if she's gonna watch this podcast. But whatever, I don't care nobody watches this podcast so uh, yeah, I just solved the problem.

Speaker 1: 34:04

Good yeah, what did the woman see? Her legs after they removed her? Do you have her like laid flat on a board?

Speaker 2: 34:10

laid flat. She was in complete shock, like you know, psychological shock. She wasn't in any pain, we didn't give her any pain medicine. I just remember, man, your legs are I didn't tell her this, but but I mean your legs are completely flat, right and she just was like in this state of shock, like her eyes were just boom, like weird Poor woman. We just rushed her to the hospital and then nothing. I mean, she probably lost both legs, I'm sure, but I think she survived. What's it?

Speaker 1: 34:41

San Francisco is such a fascinating place. What's it like on the fourth of july being a firefighter? I'm watching all these videos of these dudes blowing their hands off and it seems every year more and more videos are coming out. It just blows my mind that these dudes are holding mortars and trying to light them, and it's just even the dumbest shit I've ever done in my life. I never would hold a mortar and light it. What is the 4th of July like working as a firefighter paramedic in San Francisco?

Speaker 2: 35:13

So I think people are just getting dumber 100%.

Speaker 1: 35:16

Right For sure.

Speaker 2: 35:17

So let me tell you what my daughter just told me, because she worked the 4th of July just on the ambulance she goes, dad. This I shouldn't even laugh. But they had somebody that was lighting, like I don't know, it was an M 80 or something, something big, and he couldn't. It wasn't lighting, so he just got closer to it and so when it went off it completely blew his mouth open. That's what she said he goes and she goes dad. It was. I've never seen anything like that and I'm like really, but the way she was explaining it was like whoa, you know, I just don't understand, I don't get it. But she, they have, it's just so. My worst experience as a paramedic on july 4th it was.

Speaker 2: 35:57

I'll never forget it. I think it was before we merged with the fire department. I was a DPH, um, and it was in kind of a rundown area, okay. And so someone shot some sky rockets or bottle rockets that hit the shingle roof and the house went on fire. Two kids died in the two young ones like three or four, and I remember seeing their bodies. And there was a guy that we worked with. There was several ambulances. There are guy that came in with me that quit his job that day. Really, right after the call he goes F this, I'm done, I can't do this anymore. And so apparently he had seen a lot. He'd worked in Oakland a long time and he had just, everybody hits their limit and when somebody handed him the body of the kid it hit him in a certain way. You know those are calls you never forget. You know those like I could tell you calls. I'd probably start crying right now if I talked about it.

Speaker 1: 36:51

I mean, if you don't mind, do you want to share one? I mean, what's if you don't? You don't have to, but if you're comfortable with it, what's? One of the most worst memorable calls that you've had to go on?

Speaker 2: 37:09

I was a paramedic in san mateo county.

Speaker 2: 37:11

Okay, um, we uh, there was a, a call it gives me the shivers until like even now.

Speaker 2: 37:13

So it was, um, a young kid that had been beaten ruthlessly by a boyfriend of this lady and I believe she was like seven or eight, boyfriend of this lady and I believe she was like seven or eight, and he threw out the window.

Speaker 2: 37:30

And he threw out the window and she was just like I wasn't running the call, but we were there because it was a multi-casualty thing and it was a big deal because the I mean, obviously, this guy was arrested and somebody took him to the hospital and we the kid got taken to stanford and we were at stanford and the, the crew you know, when you bring in something like that, you've got a huge trauma team and stanford's a trauma hospital and, uh, I just remember nurses, doctors, cops, paramedics and firefighters. So they worked on her for an hour and they pronounced her dead and there wasn't a dry eye in the place like not one, and I'll never forget that Cause you, you know you go through this. I feel sorry for this kid to this. I wish I was in the ambulance with this guy Right Like you want to meet out justice.

Speaker 2: 38:23

Obviously you can't do that. But you know, know, in your fantasy head you want to do that, because I had a young, young kids at the time, yeah too, and I'm like who does that kind of stuff? You know evil, so that's. You know it's the as as jaded as someone can become. You cannot when it comes to that kind of stuff. If are, you have no soul and you shouldn't even be in that job.

Speaker 1: 38:45

For sure.

Speaker 2: 38:46

So yeah, that was a shitty call.

Speaker 1: 38:50

How often are you dealing with calls like that as a paramedic or just a first responder? How often are you dealing with those types of traumatic incidences where you're dealing with the death of kids and young adults and things like that? Is it quite often, I mean, is it a weekly thing, monthly?

Speaker 2: 39:12

I mean, no, it's like that kind of stuff not often. So I'll qualify that by saying if you are on an ambulance, or let's say you're in a firehouse or on a fire engine, that's in a particular area where you see stuff like that, you're going to see it more. Okay, if you're in an ambulance roving around, you may not see it as often, you know, because there are some areas in San Francisco that are downtrodden and you're going to see more of that stuff more often.

Speaker 1: 39:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:41

In certain communities for sure, and you get those guys get burnt out pretty quick because you just see the way people treat kids and the way they treat themselves and you know you can't help but format opinions and stuff you know, oh 100, that's human nature right you try not to.

Speaker 1: 39:57

But when you're entrenched in it all day, every day, and that's what you see, I mean that's you almost forget the rest of the world, and then that becomes your world of just seeing that trauma, and then you feel everything is like that, yeah, and so that's got to be tough. I mean that that goes back to the earlier conversation where these guys say like, oh, it doesn't affect me, but when you're dealing with hurt kids constantly, or stabbings or shootings, it's just, I mean it's just one thing after another, after another. I mean it, it chips away, it has to eventually there's no way you don't forget that type of shit, right?

Speaker 2: 40:32

look at this. This is years later and I'm talking about it and I can feel it like that. That kid, that kid calling redwood city. I, every time I tell that story, I feel emotional about it, because it's like man like what? Who does that Anytime? Just like, I think, when you were talking with Victor about the microwave thing and that hit me right there just listening to that, that was like who.

Speaker 1: 40:54

I feel a lot of us, the majority of this country is pretty sheltered when it comes to how evil or what type of evil is living next door or down the street. Yeah, because you know it's. We live in our little bubbles and people don't realize that there's just there's the level of just hate and just comes down to being pure evil. That is out there and they will. They don't care what, who they hurt, how they hurt it, and it happens every day and it's and that's where you guys are coming, you know, and it's to be able to have to deal with it on a day-to-day basis blows my mind like there's not more for for law enforcement, for first responders and everything like that. It's. It's really weird to me and I I never really gave it much thought before this podcast and then sitting down and talking to people where it's like, like what the fuck? Like? How is no, how is this? There's not more programs or how are we not?

Speaker 1: 41:51

I don't want to say forcing, but in a way like as men we don't, we don't ever reach out for help, we don't know what like, it's just what we do. Right, it's how we're programmed. It's unfortunate because it's the wrong scenario, wrong thing or situation to be doing, but it's like you and I don't even know how we would even implement the force, because you know you can't force people to want to be able to help or talk and things like that. So it's almost this, this endless battle that you know. Come back to the, the, you know the house or whatever, and you just laugh it off, joke it off, bury it, drink it away, whatever you got to do yeah and then go back and do it again the next day.

Speaker 2: 42:33

So it's a. It's a stigma right, it's a stigma. And then it's also this ego thing where I think, guys, I mean it's getting way better and it's more recognized, like we'll talk about that save a warrior program that I did, and but it's it's something that's being addressed more now than before. But when I first started, if you said, hey, man, that thing stressed me out or whatever guys would be like you, you know they call you names or whatever. Yeah for sure, and it was you know you had to put that behind you. But slowly, especially when I've had a couple of guys that ended their life, you know, committed suicide. Um, I've had, you know, guys that were like messed up after certain types of incidents and stuff. So it is a real thing. We're not made of iron, right, we're not metal. We're still humans inside. And just because we decided to be in the military or in in a first responder doesn't mean we're not susceptible to dealing with stuff like that, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 43:31

And I got lucky. I was, I had a girlfriend at the time, I think it was like 2012. And I was. I used to drink a lot, you know a lot, like to the point where I was blocking out and stuff, and that was a coping mechanism. And she goes, you know, I think you need to talk to somebody and I was doing stuff that I shouldn't be doing, you know, womanizing and all this other stuff, and she goes to the point where I don't want to be with you unless you, you do that. So I started like getting counseling, you know, and it opened up like stuff that I didn't even realize and it made me think differently. How so? This guy was smart? A psychologist Wacky is all, but he was smart. They all are no wacky. He had this thing where he had a clock here and a clock here, and if I moved the clock one inch he'd go crazy.

Speaker 1: 44:27

And I go crazy, he had this. What do they call that OCD type thing?

Speaker 2: 44:30

So now I started doing it on purpose.

Speaker 1: 44:32

Oh, for sure, for sure, I'd be poking the turn and everything.

Speaker 2: 44:40

So one of his things says hey, you got anger issues, you get mad about stuff that happens at work. Things are not fair. And then you make it worse by drinking. And da da, da happens at work, things are not fair. And then you, you make it worse by drinking. And so he said why don't we get you to drink once a week instead of you know, almost every night other than work time?

Speaker 2: 44:54

so I did and then, but that one day that I drank was a lot nuts, you know, like a half a bottle of whiskey or whatever tequila was my thing. You got to catch up for the week, right. And then one day, uh, in I think it was 2012 or something like that I went to my brother. We used to do these, um, we used to call them bowls of loud mouth soup.

Speaker 1: 45:17

Okay.

Speaker 2: 45:18

And it was. Um, each drink was a, a Belvedere vodka. Martini would have like four shots in each drink and I had four of them. So I had 16 shots that day, 16 ounces of alcohol obliterated. Yeah, somehow made it home.

Speaker 2: 45:33

I get a call the next day and my brother goes what happened to you last night? I go, what do you mean? He goes. You were yelling at my neighbor in Russian and at their dog in Russian and I go, I don't speak Russian. He goes oh, you did last night. And I'm like really, you're like I'm done. And he tells me he goes. You know, I've been meaning to talk to you. Your son is saying hey, can you talk to my dad about not drinking so much, because he kind of becomes kind of a bully and stuff. You know I didn't hurt him or nothing, but you know I'd tease him or whatever. And then I had a chat with myself and a chat with him and I just stopped. I stopped for four years straight and remember the counselor said most people can't go a year. He goes, almost nobody can stop for two years. So then I says I'll stop for four. He goes yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 46:23

And I did why, says I'll stop for four. He goes yeah, right, and I did why just four? Um, I just that was my goal, okay, and so now I can go out and have one.

Speaker 2: 46:30

Yeah, you know I didn't. I remember going to an aa meeting and then they they were defining what an alcoholic is and on page this, and that they they handed me the book if you answer yes or whatever. The question was there's something about if you have one, do you have to have another one. He goes, then you're an alcoholic and I go, I don't, he goes. Well, you're not an alcoholic, I just enjoyed getting drunk. I did, it was fun, but I was an idiot when.

Speaker 2: 46:55

I drank so now I might have two a month, maybe, and I could go months without having one, so I don't need it. But Maybe, and I could go months without having one, so I don't need it. Yeah, but when I stopped I felt like I lost a friend initially. It's weird.

Speaker 1: 47:06

A lot of people say that. Yeah, a lot of people say that, and a lot of people lose friends. I did they lose, and it's crazy. I've never been a. I'm not a drinker, good, it's just one, one of those things. I don't have an urge, right, good and so. But I have buddies I actually have a couple right now that recently quit drinking, and they're heavy drinkers and that was one of the things they said. They're like man, how many people don't call you? How many people don't want to hang?

Speaker 1: 47:40

and I'm like I can't even imagine you just it's true, you're no fun if you're at the bar, you're at events where everything's built around drinking and alcohol, that's your crowd, right. And then the second you pull yourself out of it you're different. But then you also start to see it when you know. You go through those phases and and then you start seeing like, oh man, these everything has a revolve around being drunk or and you're acting like idiots, Like when you watch a crowd.

Speaker 2: 48:06

That's the funny thing. I could go and hang out with people while they're still drinking and not feel like, oh you know, don't drink around me. No, do what you got to do, I'm disciplined, I don't have to. But then you start seeing where conversations. You realize, man, this is a superficial conversation.

Speaker 1: 48:22

All of them.

Speaker 2: 48:24

I I did two things that that time I I canceled that my cable cable subscription. Yeah, not watching TV, I'm not listening to the poison that's coming through the tube, you know, and I'm stopping the drink. And in my life changed, like in my mindset, completely changed. Oh, I bet I got a TV at home. I rarely turn it on. I might look at YouTube videos, you know podcasts or this and that, but you realize there is so much influence and brainwashing going on constantly. So the minute, everything, everything.

Speaker 1: 48:55

My wife was just telling me she sent me this video. I haven't watched it yet. We just had this conversation this morning. This guy got rid of his iPhone and got a flip phone and he said it completely changed his life and how. At first he was so consumed by all the problems and he didn't even realize, like what's going on, who's doing this, like what's changing, what's what's happening. And it was this huge phase of fomo, of missing out. And then, once he got past it and he's, he explains it like it's. It's like detoxing off alcohol. He's like it was horrible, totally. And so, yeah, he's like I went back to a flip phone, got rid of all the social. And he's like, once you got past that phase and detoxed from it, he's like everything, cause she was telling me about it. All. She's like, and he says that everything is related to your phone, all your problems come from your phone.

Speaker 2: 49:45

Go to the like you know. You go to the gym. You see what happens over there. I saw a guy today. He had a hundred pound dumbbell and he was on the phone Like what are you doing? Like all the, and you can hear, it was loud and he's talking and but that happens thing. It's not only here, like, I travel all over the world, right, it's everywhere, at the gyms, in Thailand, in Vietnam, in Laos, in Japan. Everybody's doing it, you know. So they own us, man, they own us and you know how I mean. I know, you know this, but I'll say something. And the next thing I know, I open up Facebook and I've got an ad.

Speaker 1: 50:25

Wait a minute.

Speaker 2: 50:26

You're listening to me.

Speaker 1: 50:28

Yes, they are. We just had a cybersecurity Ben the IT guy, the family IT guy 15 minutes Every 15 minutes they're tracking.

Speaker 1: 50:39

When that hit me, I was working for a company and we had a meeting we were looking at hiring on this woman and I had no idea who this woman was never seen her, never heard nothing. She was somebody that got brought up and we had this full conversation about her and I left the office, got in my truck and there was a there's a stoplight as soon as you pull out. It's the longest damn stoplight, so I'd pull my phone out. The second I opened facebook, people recommended that you should, you should follow, and it was this woman and I'm like yep, that's what I was like.

Speaker 1: 51:09

They truly they're 100 listening and it's, it's, it's an interesting world. But back to the firefighter. Before I want to get over past, before I want to start hearing some over the around the world stories but yeah what's it like dealing, and I have a fascination with this. I want to talk to somebody that works with hoarders. Oh okay, sorry, I don't know where it comes from, maybe because my mom watched hoarders as a child coming up.

Speaker 1: 51:37

All right, all right, that's all I was fed, but I have this weird obsession with talking to people that deal with hoarders. Okay, what is it like going into hoarder homes?

Speaker 2: 51:48

First of all, I'm going to start off by apologizing to my mom, because she's the biggest hoarder in the world and I'm the opposite. Okay, that's probably why she wasn't like that until like the last few years.

Speaker 1: 52:00

That's a thing. It's like an empty nest thing and then all of a sudden just something switches in people. She.

Speaker 2: 52:04

That's a thing, it's like an empty nest thing. And then all of a sudden it just something switches in people, she's got toy. My kids are my kids. I've got a 30 year old son no, 30 year old daughter and a 28 year old son Okay, and she has toys from when they were one and two. Can't let it go, no, and I mean.

Speaker 2: 52:22

And then my mom's a very she's a stubborn woman. She was born in Egypt, okay, an Egyptian woman got kicked out of Egypt because there were Jews, you know, back in the sixties. So she's like you know, she's like that. And she asked me the other day was last week, I was in the Bay area and she goes what do I need to do around here? I go, everything I go, but first, mom, I'm not going to tell you what you need to do, because I already know that you're not going to listen to me. She goes okay, just tell me I go. We need to bring in like a dump truck here and throw everything. Nope, okay, so that out of the side. I can't tolerate that. And so when you go into, imagine you have a fire, which obviously, if you're a hoarder, you're going to be more susceptible to having a fire because there's more material to go to light up.

Speaker 2: 53:06

Right, sure, and you just come into a house that could have boxes and whatever books, stuff that they've collected over the years everywhere. Now you're tripping over that. That's a hazard, but it's no surprise that a lot of the houses that light up are are hoarders, are they? Yeah, a lot, not every one of them, obviously, but a majority, like a percentage of it. Yeah, imagine if I walk into a room. It's completely black. All you see is smoke, and it doesn't only mean not only for the firefighters but for the paramedics. Walk into a place you want me to get your 300-pound butt out of here. How?

Speaker 1: 53:42

is that? How do you do that?

Speaker 2: 53:45

How do I get a 300 pound person out of there, out of a hoarder house? It's, it sucks. I mean I've I've never done it. But there are people that have had to call in a crane and and take people out of the window that way, cause there were six, 700 pounds. They haven't been out of the bed for six months, you know. But you know, you just do it, you solve it, you solve it, you figure out you could put them into this thing that we call the carry-all. It's a big vinyl, whatever tarp with handles everywhere, and you put them in and you get a bunch of firemen and six, seven of us are carrying this person out. You know, through just trails. Yeah, roll them Whatever way you just got to. Yeah, roll them whatever way you just gotta go out. Yeah, now hoarding to me. I, I don't get it. I don't either. I mean, if you ever come to my house you'll see like I mean it's not immaculate but it's pretty neat. You know what I mean. I like my organ because I think better when I'm organized.

Speaker 1: 54:39

Maybe that's actually sleep better. Everything it's like there's some, there's science behind it. My wife's always arguing with the kids she's our little one, it's not that she has, she's this kid. You know how kids are but and she's a toy kid, so you can have the most immaculate room. And then you walk back in 30 minutes later and it is just. It looks destroyed, but she knows where every single thing is in her room. And then my wife's always like you, you will sleep better. And then every time she cleans her room every morning, she's like I got the best night's sleep after I clean my room. Oh shit, you just got to tell them that a hundred times until it becomes a habit or a routine.

Speaker 1: 55:15

But yeah, hoarders fascinate me, man, like the hell we had Mackenzie on. She was she's, she's still in. And man, she was just telling me some of the stuff, like the filth and the feces smell?

Speaker 2: 55:31

Oh, because if you're a hoarder and my mom's not like this, but most hoarders are not very hygienic people you know the whole house is just. It's a wreck. Why do you? I don't get it. I want to understand. Maybe you and I can figure this out. You know we could make money doing it like I've.

Speaker 1: 55:48

I mean, I've watched the, the series so much because my mom was just like I said earlier, she's obsessed with it growing up and then I think I got into it. But it's weird when you see the psychologist talking to them and how something will just switch right. And then all these kids were like man, my parents, we didn't grow up like this. Some of them do. But then there's a lot that don't like my wife, their grandmother on the wife's side. She's borderline it and there would. That was like a huge thing for my wife growing up because she'd always had to move things there's always boxes and paths in a way and she was like so now she's like do you leave a trail in a room? Oh my god, like it brings back some childhood flashbacks. We're all getting screamed at right over that. But yeah, no, I just as a I couldn't imagine as like a paramedic or a fighter firefighter going into a home and it's just like trails and piles and you just want to get out of there.

Speaker 2: 56:43

I bet you know. Another one is getting someone off of an airplane is kind of difficult too, you know. Oh, that's so. It's not the same, obviously, but it's.

Speaker 1: 56:53

It's such a narrow aisle way, yeah, yeah how often are people dying on planes?

Speaker 2: 56:58

it's not that they're dying, but they need to be wheeled off. But it happens. People are dying on airplanes. I mean, I've had people die in the middle of the ocean. Right, they're over the ocean, flying in from wherever they're dead. There's nothing you can do, so now it turns into a dead body call. That's an awkward flight. I bet yeah, especially if that body's right next to you. Right, they've done cpr or whatever could you imagine?

Speaker 1: 57:20

if you're like four hours from landing I've seen it and you just got a body sitting next to they? Is there a protocol like they move into the back or well how some of them are not.

Speaker 2: 57:28

If it's a big person, they can't right.

Speaker 1: 57:30

So then they just cover them, belt them in and cover them I'm not, I don't, I'm not making light of it, but I'm thinking of the situation. Like you're just sitting, like look like a weekend at bernie's, like you just got some body just chilling next to you on a plane. All right, that would be the. I would be getting my money back from that flight, dude and the worst. You never think of this stuff, unless I guess you're in in the moment right, or you, I saw it, I saw it all the time.

Speaker 2: 57:57

And one thing other I hated doing it. We had to do it so we would get on an airplane. Everybody's ready to go. You know how you get up and you're getting your load and I have to say everybody has to sit down until I get the patient off. That's the protocol. Because you called me that someone's having an emergency. Let's say that person is in seat 54C, right Way in the back of the airplane. Well, if they're having an emergency, I'm not going to wait 30 minutes for you to deplane this aircraft. So we'd piss off crews, we'd piss off you know. And then usually the way we'd solve it, as I tell the pilot, it's whatever, it's part 139 faa. Okay, oh, they don't argue because that's it's a legal thing.

Speaker 2: 58:38

Now right, you don't want the faa involved in your business, you know, especially if you cop goes, get it no problem.

Speaker 1: 58:45

What was your favorite part about being a firefighter?

Speaker 2: 58:51

Probably similar to your favorite part of being in the military, and it was the camaraderie with the guys.

Speaker 1: 58:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 58:56

I mean, I'm assuming that that was probably a cool thing.

Speaker 1: 58:57

Oh yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2: 58:59

So there was this. My buddy came up with this saying when we retired, he goes I miss probably a hundred percent. Um, so there was this. My buddy came up with the saying when we retired, he goes I don't. I miss the clowns, but I don't miss the circus for sure. Right, and that's the truth. Uh, so, sitting around at the table and talking and then, you know, meeting up with people later on or doing events later, that was cool because you have a, a bond and a connection with people. Um, so, but I also like being challenged. I I like going on challenging calls, I liked figuring out. I'm just a problem solver by nature. I don't know if that's you know a weird thing or what, but I just like bring me a problem, I'll figure it out for you. You know, um, and that's what a lot of being a firefighter, especially a paramedic, is solving problems.

Speaker 1: 59:38

Would you have rather stayed a paramedic your whole entire career, or were you glad that it merged?

Speaker 2: 59:43

I'm glad that it merged because, uh, working on an ambulance is not conducive to a healthy lifestyle and if you look at your average paramedic that works on an ambulance for many years, they're not in good shape. They end up eating like crap. You see them with the big bellies and, uh, you know they've got the big, thick neck. So they get the sleep apnea and more problems and most become jaded. And that's why I tell people I go do 10 years on an ambulance and get out. Yeah, if you can move to the fire department. Not many 20 to 30-year paramedics make it out in a good situation. Okay, think of it. You're sitting, right, you're sitting, sitting, sitting, waiting for something to happen and you get jaded because, you know, as we've evolved, especially in big cities, you're more of a social worker because you're getting called to crap. That's not even emergencies, like what the flu.

Speaker 1: 1:00:39

I got.

Speaker 2: 1:00:40

Oh, dude, you're taking me to the hospital why I got the flu and I don't have insurance, or blah, blah, blah, whatever you know.

Speaker 1: 1:00:46

so they call an ambulance.

Speaker 2: 1:00:47

Yeah, oh god, that's the, if you don't have worse. I've had people call me for a hangnail. Yeah, seriously, that's a real call. I had wait for a hangnail. I'm like are we here? So you get stuff like that over and over again and you start getting upset Like I can see a hundred percent, Especially if you just it's a late.

Speaker 1: 1:01:10

You've already gone on 15 calls that day, yeah. And then now you get called out for a hangnail. You literally got called.

Speaker 2: 1:01:17

I got called out for a hangnail and I'm like are you kidding me?

Speaker 1: 1:01:19

is that the dumbest call you've ever got called out for? As far as I remember, that's probably the dumbest call, right?

Speaker 2: 1:01:25

you know I mean what do you do?

Speaker 1: 1:01:26

you? Do you legally have to help the person, or do you get there and be like let me see it and then get back in your car every?

Speaker 2: 1:01:33

incident number requires, uh, some kind of paperwork. Yep, and I'm thinking really like I'm gonna have to write up, even if it's a small write-up for a hangnail. You want to go to the hospital for this? Cool, I'll take you to the hospital. You'll wait eight hours to see. You're going to get put at the bottom of the list. Right Now, because of the homeless population and all the stuff that's going on in big cities, it's almost impossible to get seen, uh, in an er it's ridiculous.

Speaker 1: 1:02:04

Okay, let's talk that. Homelessness yes, what's it like being in a big city on a, on a, as a first responder dealing with the homeless population?

Speaker 2: 1:02:19

it's hard, how it's hard to maintain empathy. Why? Um, because you could listen to the narrative and say these people are drug addicts and they're. What is the term that they use for them? They say they're. They don't call them homeless. There was another word. They started there, jesus. I forgot the name, but it's their PC version of homeless. You know, House challenged or whatever they call it. So you realize that a lot of these people come from other cities. I'll never forget a call. We had a guy and I asked him. He was like 20 years old, homeless, and he said I asked him hey, where are you from? He said I'm from Minnesota. I go, why don't you go back there, dude? Just go back. Why are you here, Warmer? He said, why would I go back there? And he starts laughing. He goes I'd be a fool to go back. I go why? Well, the city's given me $900. They're giving me needles and if I want oh, I see that, Okay, I want you to get a job why?

Speaker 1: 1:03:26

would I? Did you see in your 27 years? Did you see like a spike in homelessness in San Francisco? Yeah, when did it start to get bad?

Speaker 2: 1:03:44

So when I left from the city to the airport, it was bad. When I came back, oh my god. And not only that, it did it get worse. But before we would get a heroin overdose, that was a common call. You give them two milligrams of narcan intramuscular, bam, they're awake. Well, enter fentanyl. That's a different game, a much different game. Um, now you're giving them eight, 10 milligrams and they're waking up groggy. Really, it's way stronger. Fentanyl is way stronger than heroin. I don't know what the numbers are, but is it a hundred times? I don't know. But we would on average.

Speaker 2: 1:04:15

My last few years I was going out as rescue captain, a paramedic captain, so there was four captains in the city and you each have a quadrant. So if you end up in the downtown area or the mission district, you're getting a lot of that kind of stuff, a lot. That's where you were. I would rove, so I didn't have a spot. So I would get to the firehouse and go hey, you're being detailed out to the captain spot, and so it's cool because you get your own vehicle and you get to do what you want, but you get called out to critical calls like cardiac arrests, overdoses, shooting, stabbing, stuff like that, and so I remember a buddy of mine saying hey, be careful with this, this job, you're going to see so much death that it's going to affect you after a while. So you know, keep an eye on yourself Right, and you did so in the two or three years that I was doing it.

Speaker 2: 1:05:01

It's got to the point where I every day you're seeing dead people, you know, um, but in regards to the homeless, I don't know like by number, it just seemed like it got worse. So the more you give, the more the city gives and pays, the more are going to come. So when they say it's people that lost their job and this, no, it's a lie, that's a, and then you realize that it's an industry. So I had a friend of mine that was he retired, he was, like, considered the homeless guru and he was very astute at what he did and he was putting a dent in the problem.

Speaker 1: 1:05:39

Well, he gets a call like that.

Speaker 2: 1:05:42

Well, he gets a call. California doesn't like that. No, san Francisco doesn't like that. Yeah, I'm sure California, but this was a city thing, because there are so many agencies that are involved in the homeless that are profiting from it. Oh, they don't want a cure, dude. It's like a lot of the medical stuff they don't want a cure. So, a lot of the medical stuff they don't want a cure. So he was told to stand down and they eliminated his position and he was making a dent in the situation like finding homeless people, help and all that. It's like wait a minute. So that's where I started like seeing things a little bit differently, like, oh, you guys are, there's some. There's way more corruption than people realize. That goes on, because when you see the underbelly of the devil over there, it's not pretty.

Speaker 1: 1:06:40

Yeah, I remember seeing some numbers from these charities in San Francisco and they were asking them about their funding and they're making tens of millions I don't want to say in the hundreds, but a lot and they're doing. The staff were making so much money. Yeah, it's disgusting.

Speaker 2: 1:06:51

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:06:52

And here people are donating or they're just funded by the government, programs through our corrupt politicians, which we've seen. All of that, yeah. And then these organizations are just cashing in. Yeah, here I am with my charity. We're like, oh my god, how do we spend a fucking dollar for this? And worried about everything. And now we have these, we've got these presidents that are on these boards and buckets of money, and here here you drive down the street and it's just littered, littered with tents and needles and feces, and I mean it's, it's, it's so sad of that and that just shows the corruption of of from the top down is that, you know, you take our correctional facilities, you take the homeless, everything if there's money to be made. I mean the corruption is just unreal with our government in the cities, in these towns, because they're all, they're all bottom up, yeah they're all just making money off of it.

Speaker 2: 1:07:46

like san francisco was a microcosm I call, like the fire department is a microcosm of the city, the city is a microcosm of the state, and you know which is what led me to come here, right, and but I, I remember I had a very uh close of mine that was addicted, that got addicted to heroin. Was he a firefighter? No, she was not. It was just a friend of mine and I don't want to disclose or anything but close to me right.

Speaker 2: 1:08:13

And so this person went on to methadone and we would take her to a methadone clinic. So I'm keeping my eye, I'm driving her there almost every day of the days that I'm not working and I'm keeping an eye on her. I go what's your dose? Oh, they keep increasing the dose. I go okay, timeout. I talk to the counselor. I go why are you increasing her dose? Well, she's having pain. I go can I ask you a question? And she goes yeah, I go. You don't want to lose her as a client. She goes what do you mean? I go well, in all my days over here I've seen people in their fifties and sixties that have been coming here for 30 years. Why don't you work to get them off instead of getting them dependent? I go. But I already know that's a redundant question. I already know the answer is because you lose your funding. Yeah, and she just neglected or she refused to go on with the conversation. So I mean, think about that for a second right. You're choosing profit over somebody's well-being.

Speaker 1: 1:09:13

You don't make money off of people.

Speaker 2: 1:09:16

There's no profit in the cure, right Cancers, all that stuff. We can go on. This is a really deep hole. But, um, that hit me personally because this person was someone very close to me and I'm like whoa, you guys are evil, you know so it is.

Speaker 1: 1:09:28

It's absolutely evil of how I was. I had big hopes for rfk when he came on and and all of that stuff and I was really hoping it would get things back on track. I've seen some changes and there's been some things whatever, but the amount of pure evil that would rather profit than actually help people get healthy is mind-blowing to me, Overwhelming. It's disgusting of how and nobody's we're just cool with it.

Speaker 2: 1:09:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:09:57

Because it doesn't affect us. Yeah, but meanwhile you have. I mean, mean, the va is the most perfect example. If we truly wanted to help these veterans like, why aren't we prescribing them or setting up clinics to help these guys with ayahuasca or shrooms or even weed? Let's just take weed, for example. Sure, I worked with a vet I might have talked about him on the podcast before, but I have a buddy. That dude was on 40, 50 different pill, different pills, but pills throughout the day. He'd take multiple of each pill. This dude was a zombie and the va is just pumping him pumping. I mean, this guy's got bought giant bottles of pills and then he one day is like fuck, I'm, I'm, I'm zombied, out of my mind. I'm gonna get off this, I'm just gonna start eating edibles, smoking weed, and he made his own butter and shit changed his whole life around. If they truly cared about it's like, why can't they prescribe these guys a pack?

Speaker 2: 1:10:55

of pre-rolled joints, sure, or I'll take it to him, I'll give it. I'll give you another example that I just experienced about two months ago with my dad, who is a vet, and I went with him to his he's 86 years old, he doesn't get it right.

Speaker 2: 1:11:13

So I got him on TRT, on testosterone replacement on a cream. He's not injecting it and I'm like dad, I think it can help you. And so I've done my research. I realized that you know, the old school thinking was oh, you're going to get a prostate cancer or you're going to your blood thickens and you'll have a heart attack. Maybe your blood will thicken, but there's ways to deal with that. But it doesn't give you prostate cancer.

Speaker 2: 1:11:31

So we are paying for him, for I'm a service, I'm an online service, so I'm going, I'll go. Let's go talk to your primary about whatever he's got. You know asthma and stuff. So I sent her I go, look. Can we, instead of spending the hundred bucks a month, can you prescribe him TRT? Oh no, oh no, that causes prostate cancer. So I'm a little bit of a contrarian. I don't mind looking at somebody and saying, no, you're wrong. And I looked at her I go, doctor. All due respect, you're objectively wrong and you need to look at this. I go because I've seen the forums about the guys that want it and none of you will. I go. Is it a cost thing or what? Well, you know, they just beat around the bush. There's no proof that it helps. I go, man, he's taking it and he's doing fantastic.

Speaker 2: 1:12:18

You know he's more vibrant. I mean, is he, does he have a young girl? No, he's more vibrant. I mean, is he, does he have a young girl? No, he's 86. He's not doing that part of it, but he's more vibrant. And he, when he starts running out, he goes, hey, I need to get some more.

Speaker 1: 1:12:28

Like, okay, cool let's get you something right. Yeah, they. They have a hard time prescribing you a trt or testosterone to help get you back on track, but they'll. They'll give you a zempic, they'll. They'll prescribe that to you, no problem, right? Oh yeah, the testosterone may cause cancer, colon cancer, whatever it may be, but here you are giving out ozempic that kills your bone marrow, increases the risk of cancer by like 70. It's insane of the how our medical field or medical industry, what they consider healthy or not, that's.

Speaker 2: 1:13:09

Well, if you, if a guy in his fifties goes in to a regular GP and says, hey, I'm kind of like feeling low and this and that, low energy, a little bit of depression or whatever, the first thing they're going to do is give them like something like a Selexa or a Prozac Prozac every time, right. But they're not going to sit there and go hey, let's check your free and total testosterone and see what you're doing there. Yeah, let's see where your levels are. Whoa, you're below. You're like 200?. Yeah, let's get you on that.

Speaker 2: 1:13:43

On that, because I did some nutrition coaching and, uh, help people out for a little bit I got tired of it because nobody listens to you, but whatever, yeah, and I would say, hey, check your levels. Oh, you're low, okay, wow, I feel amazing after you know two months of being on this stuff, and you don't have to take a lot, just a little bit.

Speaker 1: 1:13:55

Get back to where you were when you were 30 or whatever yeah, you don't need to be running and have a thousand count on as your test levels, I mean. But if you're at the two, three hundred, it's like cool. If you want to hover seven, eight hundred, it's perfect there's nothing wrong with that, but our medical no they don't listen. So that's a whole. That's a whole other.

Speaker 1: 1:14:14

We could do a whole episode on that right there yeah it's just, it's mind-boggling to me that and nobody questions it because it's our, it's our medical professionals and they know what they're doing. I mean, I went into a doctor. This woman is trying to give me medical advice and she's 400 pounds.

Speaker 2: 1:14:33

Yeah, you're like really, and look at you.

Speaker 1: 1:14:35

You're in shape, you're good looking, she's literally sitting there and I'm sitting on the bed and my feet are like dangling and she's sitting there with this clipboard telling me what I need to do, and the whole time she's talking to me. I'm like, yeah, you're dying to say something. Oh, I'd look at my wife.

Speaker 2: 1:14:53

My wife's like like behind her, like shut the fuck up.

Speaker 1: 1:14:57

And I'm looking at my wife like You're killing me. She's giving me medical advice. You're 400 pounds and you're a doctor. You have the audacity. How dare you? You don't walk in like, hey, actually we need you to start eating like this, and you're not in your mind like, wow, I'm a huge piece of shit telling people to get healthy and I'm not even healthy. I just don't understand how someone's mind is working. I would feel so horrible giving somebody advice on something that was a complete like. I just I don't even know how to compare it. It's so. It's so hilarious to me that you talk to these doctors and they're they're out of shape and you're trying to. You're telling people what health is you could be a comedy.

Speaker 2: 1:15:37

You could do a comedy show with what you just did right there. That would be a great skit right there, cause the whole place would be laughing. It's true.

Speaker 1: 1:15:43

Yes, I remember. I'm not even trying to make it funny, like that's just the reality of our medical industry now is that you're going to sit here at 400 pounds telling me what I need to do to get my body back on track, but at the same time, you're giving me pills. Right, right, right, right. Instead of instead of hey, here's a, here's a prescription, or here's a membership, because this prescription is going to cost this much, but we can give you a membership to the gym. Or hey, we recommend going on a 30-minute walk every day. Right, let's start there, like I want to be. Like, yeah, you should go on a five-minute walk, yeah right after you eat, go for a 20-minute walk.

Speaker 2: 1:16:20

It'll reduce your blood sugar, right, right, we all know that. Yep, but instead of telling people, go to the gym, prioritize protein, maybe. Don't eat processed food. It's so easy, so easy. Avoid alcohol as much as possible. No, we're going to give you this pill, oh, and then you're going to need to take another pill to counteract the effects of that pill. Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that because I had an endocrinologist that I went to because my cholesterol was just a little bit high and he was not 400 pounds, but he had a big belly. And he's telling me well, do you drink cream in your coffee? I go, yeah. He goes. Yeah, not good for you, really. Like, an ounce of cream is not good for you. Well, you know cumulatively. And then I'm going okay. So what should I do? Well, it's probably time for you to get on statins. I'm like I'm not going to get on statins, dude, I'm going to, I'm going to. So that's when I started getting into the nutrition thing and brought my levels down to normal levels.

Speaker 2: 1:17:14

All it took was sleep better, eat better. Prioritize protein exercise. Well, imagine that. Prioritize protein exercise, walk. Imagine that. Right a mad crazy. He's telling me you don't need to be on testosterone, and I'm like you do.

Speaker 1: 1:17:26

I don't know why that's such a thing. Why it's it? It to me how my mind works with where we're at, with our country. Whatever the government or medical are telling us like us as a family, we're like we, we're going to go the opposite, sure for sure. So if they're sitting here telling everybody, like no, you don't need tests, oh, you're around 250, 300 of your levels, that's average. They've lowered the average, they have lowered the average. And so why? Why, all of a sudden, are we lowering the average? And now, why is everybody's average lower, right?

Speaker 2: 1:18:02

Like, what's causing that that's? That's a whole nother conversation. But I will tell you what my conspiracy theory is about. The not getting guys on tests is because they don't want strong men in this country, right it? That is an affront to a lot of people. Now some people watching this will go this guy's you know conspiracy. But if there's some truth about that through the years, whether it was in the firehouse or whatever, there is a kind of aversion to strong men. A hundred percent Right, and I'll say it, strong white men were not really.

Speaker 2: 1:18:34

I was looked down upon and people go well, you're Jewish, I go, that's a religion. I'm white, I don't have any special, yeah, whatever, and I'm not religious. So it doesn't like, what do you mean? But and I remember telling a gal friend of mine she was filipino, she's my girlfriend and I go do you see this hatred coming towards white people? I go, you're not seeing it, that's not, you don't know what you're talking about. Like I go, it's everywhere, it's everywhere, um, and whatever the agenda is, it's like I'm not going to walk around being ashamed of who I am. Hell, no.

Speaker 1: 1:19:07

Hell no.

Speaker 2: 1:19:07

So I had this thing where, when people would talk about white privilege, I go, yeah, I believe in white privilege and I have a picture on my phone of military crosses, white crosses and stuff. I go, that's privilege. They died, so you can have your stupid privilege to say white privilege. How do you feel about that? Right, I'm a history buff and I did a lot of like. One of my dream trips is to go to Normandy. I really have you been there?

Speaker 1: 1:19:35

No.

Speaker 2: 1:19:36

Okay, I dying to go there.

Speaker 1: 1:19:37

I had a guest on and his brother. His brother stormed the beaches and got killed and was in like a special unit, yeah, and he sat right there and told the story and I had, because I had the goosebumps, because I want to go, so bad I got to travel. So if you're a historic buff, so I was in the first Marine Division, which is the most decorated division in the Marine Corps, at least I believe.

Speaker 2: 1:20:04

Thank you for your service, man.

Speaker 1: 1:20:05

Thank you Don't quote me on that, all you TikTok warriors but I'm pretty sure it's the most decorated division in the Marine Corps. It's cool. Anyways, I got to fly to the Solomon Islands because that's like the birthplace of the first Marine division and that's where Ch chesty polar and all the this I mean that's where it's such a historic monument like played monumental place for the division. So I got to go back for the ceremony and they brought back a bunch of the vets that stormed the beaches. Wow, because I was supposed to be, because I was the first marine division color sergeant. So I traveled the whole country. I got to travel the world representing the colors and long story short, we ended up australia.

Speaker 1: 1:20:51

We flew in australia and they ended up confiscating all of our rifles in our flags because they said there were us military memorabilia and they wouldn't let. So we ended up going to the solomon islands with no flags. Oh wow, no weapons like even demilled. Our rifles were demilled, they were just for show right and so yeah, australia seized all of our stuff, so I got to spend like six days with all of these war vets that stormed the beaches the stories you heard I'm from.

Speaker 1: 1:21:18

We were unreal it was one of the coolest highlights of my military career was going and and being able to to just travel the islands and like to be on the beaches.

Speaker 1: 1:21:29

That like this, this war hero. Yeah, we went to a beach and this dude is I'll never I'll be on my deathbed and I'll remember this for the rest of my life. This dude's name was Ernest and him and I bonded. He was just crusty old vet and we went to this beach and he was kind of off by himself and I was watching you know, I'm the young buck and so I got a million questions and I kind of look over and I see him by himself and I give him a few minutes. I end up going over and I'm like, hey, you good buddy. And I kind of look over and I see him by himself and I give him a few minutes. I end up going over and I'm like, hey, you good buddy, because I'm helping these guys climb on things and all that good stuff. And I walk over to this old Marine and I was like, hey, ernest, I'm like you, good sir. He's like.

Speaker 1: 1:22:11

I stormed this beach when I was 17. Whoa, I was like what he's like? I landed on this beach, on this island when I was 17 years old and he and he goes. They told us 75 percent of us weren't going to make it off the beach. I couldn't even imagine being a 17 and like I get making those bumps.

Speaker 2: 1:22:32

I mean there's a three to one chance that I'm not going to make it here.

Speaker 1: 1:22:34

I mean, I look at our kids these days and like these, these house, I'm gonna get on how soft we are. But here's a 17 year old kid told hey% of you aren't going to make it off the beach.

Speaker 2: 1:22:45

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:22:46

Good luck.

Speaker 2: 1:22:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:22:47

And so, fortunately for him, the enemy didn't realize that they were hitting that side of the island, that their focus was all elsewhere. So he said when they hit the beach, he remembers screaming and running as far and as fast as they could to get to the tree line and not one shot was ever fired because the they didn't know that they were there. And I asked him I was like what's different? He goes, I remember running forever to the tree line. He goes. I feel like the trees have grown in and but it was just super cool to be able to experience in in travel. It would be like us going back to like Fallujah or Ramadi with a, a bunch of young you know Marines that are representing and then like walking them through, like oh, man, we fucked this house up, blew this mosque up over here, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:23:37

So it was really cool for me to be able to experience that as a young Marine, to be able to go back to the Solomon Islands or in the island hopping campaign and that was a.

Speaker 2: 1:23:45

Those are nasty battles, from what I read, right. Oh that the Pacific theater, mm-hmm, and they were all terrible. But man, I mean jungle, a hundred degree heat, sweaty Face to face, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:23:56

They were telling me. He, he told me a story. He told me a story there's on on the Island, on the top of this mountain, there's the. There's a monument for the missing soldier. Okay, and and so he said they would hear the enemy climbing the cliffs at night and they would shoot flares and they could see where the guys were climbing up and they would pull their pins out of their grenades and they would milk them. And they got. He said they would get so good at being able to time that the grenade would be falling by the enemy and explode. And they said they would just watch dudes peel off these cliffs as they were trying to, and we stood on there, as there used to be a bunker on top. It was one of the coolest experiences I can't imagine.

Speaker 1: 1:24:37

I've still got to do it in my military career, this travel, this island where these guys were fighting to the death, Right In trenches, fighting holes. I mean it just.

Speaker 2: 1:24:47

And no hospitals, I mean you're down. You're down, I mean you got to get carted off right to a ship or something.

Speaker 1: 1:24:52

I mean you look so you as a paramedic, firefighter, right, you could do a call where someone gets shot, bandaged up up, you rush from the hospital, turned over to the er like I look back at those days. Those guys are on the island and you get imagine taking a round and you're in some tropical rainforest and you get shot in the gut hours, days yeah, you're gonna die agonizing pain, like just trying to just get through it world back then man right storming the beaches, just lose a leg and you throw a tourniquet on and everybody just keeps fighting and you're laying there for hours and during this battle no, no thanks, but that was our reality back then.

Speaker 1: 1:25:31

It was right was there ever a time that you felt powerless and being able to help somebody while you're on the job? Powerless, not being able to help or do enough?

Speaker 2: 1:25:45

You know, with those pulmonary embolism calls you can't really do much. You already know right. Most of the time, if you don't feel like you can do enough is because the person doesn't want to help themselves. They keep getting stuck in the same situation, which is usually with drug addiction. But I've never been in a situation where I wasn't able to do something and wasn't I mean meaning I wasn't able to perform my task. I was good at it.

Speaker 2: 1:26:18

One thing I could do was stay calm in the moment, and that comes from learning that job at a young age. I think I trained people in their 30s and 40s that they weren't able to do that because I mean I don't want to try to compare this to golf, but when you learn golf in your 30s it's not like when you learn golf in your teens, or you know what I mean. It came natural to me and so my son and I, years ago, we were getting sushi. We came out of the sushi restaurant and somebody got hit on a uh, one of those little scooters or whatever, yeah, and I took the call on and, um, and I was off duty and I knew the crew that was coming and he goes.

Speaker 2: 1:26:57

Dad, I saw you just so calm, like you just calmly handle this. You're dealing with this person. Someone was freaking out saying who are you to tell me to do this? I go? So I, I used an f word, I said I'm the effing medic over here, so you know, whatever. And he remembers that. I don't remember saying that, but he said it and so, no, I've never been a situation where I didn't feel like I could do enough that's good.

Speaker 1: 1:27:17

Yeah, that's good, yeah. What is something that movies get wrong about firefighters? Movies, because as a vet, I always watch. I can't. The wife refuses to watch any military. I'm like wrong Doesn't blow up. Like you know, we ruin everything. What is something in like movies or shows about firefighters that you see wrong?

Speaker 2: 1:27:39

If you see those shows, they're constantly going to fires, every single minute of the day right okay, it's like oh, we had five fire, that doesn't happen.

Speaker 2: 1:27:47

Okay, now could it? Yeah, I mean, maybe there's some new york suburbs that you know that they, they light up or whatever, but you're not, you know, um, carrying people out of fires on a daily basis. That doesn't happen. No, no, and you're not throwing them over your shoulder and walking downstairs. Does it happen? Sure, it could. I've never carried anybody out, you know. I mean, so they glorify, everything is glorified right, just like you see with the military. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, that's it, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:28:19

Interesting. I guess you never think of like, yeah, every show is, you're going on a call every day and what is something that goes on behind closed doors that most civilians don't realize, like in the firehouse? It doesn't have to be either way, like good or bad. What's something that we don't realize that goes on day to day inside the firehouse?

Speaker 2: 1:28:40

You know a lot of the joking yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:28:42

You know, and that's a coping mechanism, right For sure, you might say some off color stuff, or you know, I'm not, obviously I won't repeat that stuff that we would do, but it's so, people. I remember when I was married, I was told you know, you can't bring the firehouse into the house. Okay, can't bring the firehouse into the house. Maybe I swore a little bit too much or I was a little bit cold, you know, and that was just my facade, right, and I was young. Then, though, I was in my 30s. Things change when you get a little older and you, you see things through a perspective, right, a different perspective, a different lens. So, yeah, that's probably it, you know. But but what people don't understand is not every firehouse is everybody loves each other. It's like anything man Drama. Well, you could be with somebody for 24 hours and absolutely can't stand that person. That'd be rough, and it happens. Oh, yeah, you're at the table. You know it's not often, but there were times where I was like, god, you know, I'd like to just punch this guy right in his nose, because he's just a jerk. You know, he doesn't treat people well or he doesn't pull his weight, or he gossips behind people's back.

Speaker 2: 1:29:53

So most firemen are good and they have good intentions, but we're not all perfect, you know. We all have our flaws and so, yeah, that's. That's something people don't realize. Like, maybe we're just normal people and when you're forced, most people go to work, they clock in at nine o'clock and they leave at five o'clock. They don't have to deal with. Well, we clock in at eight and we're not leaving until eight the next morning. So a lot of things happen in that 24. Now add an overtime shift onto that and now you're there 48 or more Some departments do 48 hour shifts. That's a long time to be around people that you may not want to be around.

Speaker 1: 1:30:30

That would be rough, yeah, and that becomes cancer.

Speaker 2: 1:30:34

Yes, and as I left, I worked in a great firehouse, my final firehouse. It was a great place and people were great, but they were all lefties and me and my brother came in and we were the only, you know, conservative guys there and they were like I can't, I don't get it. You guys are Jewish, You're supposed to be liberals. I go no, there's no such thing as that. But maybe a lot of Jews are, but I'm not. I go no, there's no such thing as that, but maybe a lot of Jews are, but I'm not. I go. I grew up in a conservative household. Both parents are from other countries. One got kicked out, so my dad is a straight up conservative right and all of my brothers are. So that was a difficult part, because politics, as I'm leaving, that's when it started to get really. You know, like everything was.

Speaker 1: 1:31:22

That's my next question Everything? Because obviously when I talk to law enforcement, the politics are horrible. I personally don't really ever consider it happening in the fire department community. Do politics play a huge role? Huge, in the fire department, huge.

Speaker 2: 1:31:40

How People have their opinions, okay, huge role. Huge in the fire department. Huge how people have their opinions, okay. So what you'll get is you'll get certain firehouses that are they're known like oh there's a bunch of conservative guys there, or this is a liberal fire really, oh, yeah, really yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:31:52

So you'll see firehouses like guys will kind of cherry pick who they want at these houses based off of their well, they won't they won't necessarily cherry pick them, but the guys that are a certain way will tend to lean and go to another firehouse if they have the seniority to make that house. And I remember oh shit, I had the house that I was at, even though they were all liberals over there. They were great people and I I you know I would trust them with my life, um, but we differed politically, for For sure, and my brother was the joker. He used to like to poke them Whereas I, so he had this way of leaving the firehouse in the morning and stirring the pot like crazy and then walking out. Walking out and the whole place is a buzz right. He was excellent. If you're watching, you know you did it. That's a skill.

Speaker 1: 1:32:41

He was good. If you're watching, you know you did it. That's a skill. He was good at it.

Speaker 2: 1:32:43

And so I was more of. If you challenge me, I'm probably going to get upset because I don't want to hear your BS. So I tried to avoid the conversation because I'm not afraid of giving my opinion. I just didn't feel like I needed to. I don't have to explain the way that I think, or just because I'm part of this group, that I have to think this way.

Speaker 2: 1:33:03

There was a guy that I worked with that I just stopped talking to him because he couldn't understand. He goes. I did the research. He told me this he goes. I did the research.

Speaker 2: 1:33:13

And Jews are this way and that way, and they should be. I go listen to what you're saying. I should. I go, everything's in context. You don't know my story, right? You don't. You don't know who I am. You don't know what my familial history is and why we are the way that we are. So don't, but that's that group thing, and I didn't accept me for the way that I am. So I'm like, okay, cool, we don't. You know, we don't have to be, we don't have to have this conversation. Yeah, we don't have to. I don't care if you don't like what I, but it was funny. I asked this guy when, in the middle of of arguing and discussing politics and why I voted for Trump and all this other stuff, I said if you had a million dollars right now that you needed secured for 24 hours, who would you give it to? He goes, I give it to you, I go. Do you hear the irony in your voice? I go me this right winger who voted for Trump. You'd give me the million dollars.

Speaker 1: 1:34:09

He goes why?

Speaker 2: 1:34:10

Anyway.

Speaker 1: 1:34:11

That's interesting. It's crazy how far we've gotten with politics and how divided we are when in reality there's no difference. There's no difference in either side. They're all playing us. They're totally they're all against us.

Speaker 1: 1:34:28

I mean, I have no problem saying I voted for trump. I it was. To me it was the lesser of two evils. I vote for more of the common. Well, I vote, try to vote for the common sense side of things. Right, for at least how my mind works.

Speaker 1: 1:34:40

But it's like even watching what's going on now, without releasing the epstein files and the fbi director, kash patel, like what he's, what they're trying to hide and cover like they did, it just shows you they're all they're politicians and as long as the media has us all fighting in the trenches and we're all fighting over transgender bullshit and all this other crap, they're just sitting and laughing because we can't come together as a country and and fight these people. And like here we are celebrating the fourth of july, that we fought originally for taxes and all this other shit, and now we're paying 30 taxes to buy a fucking firework, right, and nobody's bitching about it because we're so distracted on fighting all of our other problems and it's just. It's crazy to me and I hope more and more of the country's waking up and realizing like, yeah, there's a left and right, but it's it's them versus us. And as long as we're fighting and we're distracted by all them diddy and we got the diddy trials, and then trump's doing this and biden's doing this, and all of us are so distracted, we're not going to sit back and be like dude.

Speaker 1: 1:35:46

This country is, is fucked right now and we we could get it back on track, but instead we're, we're arguing, we're fighting, we're protesting, we're. It's just. It's so crazy to me to sit back and watch and like I'm at that stage in my life now where I and I say it all the time on this podcast I am team. Fuck the government.

Speaker 1: 1:36:07

Right, that goes for the left and right hundred but if I have to vote, I I have my political beliefs and my religious beliefs and it's more right than it is. But it doesn't mean if somebody came along and there was some random party that had all my same beliefs and things that I could stand up for and they want to make a difference, I'll go with that. It just I'm not loyal to any party. I'm I don't even want to say I'm loyal to this country anymore, because they sent our fucking asses to war and it was all a lie.

Speaker 2: 1:36:33

Yeah, yeah, I remember calling that out during the Iraq thing, right. And you remember 9-11, right? Obviously it was charged.

Speaker 1: 1:36:43

I'm from New York, so yeah, so you get it.

Speaker 2: 1:36:44

It was charged and we're like you know, we got to do this, you and a lot of other guys. Thank you for doing that, but then I'm going wait a minute. Why are body bags coming back? And I remember this.

Speaker 1: 1:37:02

Now, maybe I fell into this, but there was this town called lafayette in california. They got a badass football team.

Speaker 2: 1:37:05

I don't know, yeah uh, high school team right, yeah, yeah, is that de la salle or something like that, or I don't know, I think I know what you're talking about, though they got a badass football team anyway.

Speaker 2: 1:37:11

Sorry, that's all right. So I'm on the freeway. Um, I would. I was living in the east bay for a while. I was commuting to go to work. All of a sudden, these white crosses would show up on a hill and then, like a hundred became a thousand, a thousand became two, and I'm like, is this not cool? Like you know, like what are we doing here? And then, as I met more veterans, and then when I went through the Sable Warrior Program, which is much later, and I'm seeing the effects of what war has done to people no good. So, whether it's right or left, someone's benefiting from it right, yeah, money's to be made.

Speaker 1: 1:37:49

I remember this is one of those moments in my life that I should put in a book one day. But we're in the middle of iraq, the sandstorm rolls in and my buddy's on post and I'm up. I had the day off and I'm up bullshitting with him. I fall asleep in this post because it was just quiet up there. It's just him and I bullshit, and so I take a nap and the sandstorm rolls in.

Speaker 1: 1:38:12

I wake up and I'm I had goggles on and like a, like a gator, like a buff on my face and I and when I open my eyes, like I, I sit up and just dust just pours off. And he's sitting there and we had all the weapons were trash bagged and everything. Anyways, I look at him and I'm like so where are these weapons of mass destruction? And he starts laughing. But it came like this joke, like okay, we're here to like find weapons of mass destruction, and this is like my second deployment here and we still haven't fucking found any and nothing's changing and people are still dying. And so it wasn't and I wasn't even woke then. That came later on in life. But then now that I'm seeing this whole Israel, iran, ukraine, russia. Shit, it's a military, it's an industry, it's 100% an industry.

Speaker 1: 1:39:00

And as long as we're at war, war, people are making money, and that goes for contractors, it goes for everything, and so that takes that the human equation out of it.

Speaker 2: 1:39:06

And then when you see guys coming back, whether they have ptsd or they have one limb or two limbs blown off, that is not cool. So I agree with you f the government man, yeah dude, I just it's just it's.

Speaker 1: 1:39:17

It's tough for me to sit and like I don't want to say not be patriotic, because I'll always be patriotic, but like I feel there's a huge I don't know, maybe it's just me and a couple of my buddies, but I feel that there's this huge group of veterans in this world that are in this country that are like we got played.

Speaker 2: 1:39:38

We got played bad. I hate to say that because I don't want to disrespect any veteran, but the intentions were great, right, all the respect to you guys, but what they did, we didn't know.

Speaker 1: 1:39:47

You didn't know.

Speaker 2: 1:39:48

No, you were in your mind saying, hey, we're going to go make a difference, I'm going to go defend my country.

Speaker 1: 1:39:53

These guys attacked us. Yeah, we're going to find out CIA Right.

Speaker 2: 1:39:56

Everybody's in on it this was a plan, right?

Speaker 1: 1:40:00

sorry, man, I mean you know I have some of the best friends I've ever had in my life and ever will have in my life. I got my wife and kids because of the military. I mean I don't. It would be tough for me to like if I had a son to to be like yeah following your dad's footsteps.

Speaker 1: 1:40:14

It would be hard for me. I know dudes are. They're super pumped because their kids are joining the military. I mean, I look at them like, yep, now, if you want to join because you're patriotic, you know what. You just want to defend your country, cool. But that's what I was doing. And then come to fight out. It was all a lie. So it would be really hard for me to like be excited to support a child going into the military, knowing what we know now yeah I would much rather him go blue collar or go firefighter or ems or ems, yeah, yes, or whatever.

Speaker 2: 1:40:47

So I mean, I was talking to a kid the other day that was at uh god, where was it? He was at a hat shop. I had a hat made. It was a young guy, like 20 years old, and he's, he's gonna. He found out I was a retired firefighter. He goes, I, I'm going to be a plumber. I go, dude, that's so cool because the trades are the new gold, mine. And I said look, think about getting into the fire service, because he wanted to do it. But he goes, I think I can make more plumbing and this, and that I go. You're not on the wrong path. Either way, you'll do good, because the trades AI is never going to be able to wrench a pipe. There's no way, right? I hope not right. And so the trades are going to be a big. These guys are going to write their tickets for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:41:26

I tell you I speak on it. I have a lot of dads that have their kids reach out and be like, hey, my son wants to join. I'm like, don't join, dude. Go trades. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:41:42

Now, if you turd kid and he just needs to get his life on track, military is incredible. For sure that is one thing the military will do is square your kid away real fast, especially the marines yeah, I'm not speaking army, because I've seen a lot of dudes come in turds and leave turds. At least from my experience in the military, in the marine corps. You're, you're going to get lined out real quick, yep. So that's a huge benefit of the military and it's going to help you mature. It's not going to make you a man, but it's going to help you mature quicker. Just guide you along. Yeah, cool, but I mean you go through lyman school. You're going to be working with 50, 60 other students. You're going to it's, you're going to be learning the same thing, but you're making so much more money if you go trades god I look at it now and that's why I tell these kids I'm like, join the Air Force or go trades.

Speaker 1: 1:42:23

Yep, that's my advice. If I were to tell anybody right now the young kids graduating, if you want to go military, go Air Force. They're the most spoiled, they got the most best chow halls, they got the best looking women, they got everything right. Go trades.

Speaker 2: 1:42:42

That's not what you want. Go trades man.

Speaker 1: 1:42:44

Trades. You're going to be coming out now. I mean God, these apprentices are making so much money. Nobody wants to do the trades so you're able to get so much work. You're able to get work a lot quicker, and that's plumbing, electric gas anything.

Speaker 2: 1:42:56

Well, if you look at the newer generation or the younger generation now, so I manage at the newer generation or the younger generation now. So we I've managed property in san francisco and um. There are people that can't change light bulbs in their 30s that's wild to me.

Speaker 1: 1:43:08

And they're asking. I'm like what.

Speaker 2: 1:43:10

And then we would go to calls where people's. Here's a funny call, stupid. They would call us out to change a battery on a smoke detector. Smoke detectors going off. That I'd call the fire department. Really, you got. Oh yeah, that happens all the time. Talk to any fire. I'm sure in an urban environment like that you're going to get it. It happened to us all the time. Now, if you're 90 years old and you don't want to get on a stool, I'll happily do it for you. For sure. 100. We got a. This is a great, great one. So we have a tenant in the building in san francisco. He was a fighter pilot in world war ii. Damn, he's 101 and he's like sharp as a tack. All the amazing dude right, if he calls and asks for something, I'm doing it yesterday.

Speaker 1: 1:43:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:44:00

And he doesn't. And I'm like Earl ask, we call him Colonel, I go, colonel ask, yeah, whatever you want, we'll do for you. Now, if you're 30 and you can't, do you know, I'm like figure out how to change that bulb For sure. So, and he called me the other day and he goes ah.

Speaker 2: 1:44:17

Raph, I'm in the VA, I, raf, I'm in, I'm in the va, I got covet. I think this might be it, you know, and I'm like, no, I don't think so. So like, a few days later he goes. Okay, I'm back home, man, I'm good they didn't get me this time, you know. So, yeah, it's, it's so. It's a different. The the younger kids don't, so the more you have people that don't know how to fix a simple leak or change this or that the trades are gonna make you're gonna be, before you know it, they'll be making 150, 200 an hour, right, oh?

Speaker 1: 1:44:44

150, 200,000 a year.

Speaker 2: 1:44:46

Good, easily Good.

Speaker 1: 1:44:47

I want that yeah. You know, so here's the million dollar question.

Speaker 2: 1:44:50

Yeah, firefighter yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:44:51

Have you ever rescued a cat out of a tree?

Speaker 2: 1:44:53

No, I can't stand cats man Never.

Speaker 1: 1:45:00

That's my biggest thing. I was like have you ever seen a dead cat at tree? Those motherfuckers will find their way out every time, but I had to ask that question. No, I know.

Speaker 2: 1:45:07

Maybe that's another thing that people think of. Did you rescue cats? I remember I used to play a lot of golf.

Speaker 1: 1:45:14

And I play.

Speaker 2: 1:45:16

I stop now because when the COVID hit, everybody started going out there. I'm like I don't want to be out here anymore, so I started focusing on my health. I was out there with a bunch of these dot-commers playing and when they found that was when they were collapsing. The dot-com industry was kind of I think it was like nine, 2009 or 10. And when they found out I was a firefighter, they're like oh, you're one of those guys that we have to pay taxes to pay for your pension and all that. I go. Well, you're a dotcommer. Yeah, I go.

Speaker 2: 1:45:46

Why didn't you become a firefighter? Well, we're going to make a lot of money in the dotcom industry, I go. And you made a lot of money, right? Well, yeah, but now we're losing it. I go. You could have become a firefighter. Why didn't you become a firefighter? But? But hate is inherent in certain people. Some people don't like to see you do. Well Now, did I become a multimillionaire? No, I didn't. But I got a pension and I'm able to live a good lifestyle now and do other stuff, so why hate? But you get it.

Speaker 1: 1:46:13

So where does the beef between cops and firefighters come in?

Speaker 2: 1:46:17

There's really not a true beef.

Speaker 1: 1:46:19

No.

Speaker 2: 1:46:20

No, I mean, it's not like we hate those guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:46:23

But I mean there's a rivalry I should say rivalry because cops think they're better, firefighters think they're better, at least from a civilian point of view. Where does that stem from?

Speaker 2: 1:46:33

Jealousy.

Speaker 2: 1:46:39

Because, you guys have the better looking vehicles and nobody hates you. Well, people love us, right For sure you love firefighters. Everybody's going to love us, and people don't like cops until they really need them. Right, my daughter, who's a paramedic her boyfriend is a is a gang task force cop Solid dude, like I really liked this guy. Yeah, and we talk about kind of this stuff all the time and you know, and we talk about kind of this stuff all the time, and the media is very responsible for what they've done to the police officers.

Speaker 2: 1:47:06

I would hate to be a cop right now and having to deal with what they deal with, but we would have cops over at the firehouse and make them dinner. They'd come over for dinner all the time. That's cool, I loved them. I mean, some of my good friends are cops. I don't know if you ever met him, but he left to Utah now. But you know my. I don't know if you ever met him, but he left to utah now. But it was a good friend of mine that my workout buddy. He was a southern california cop and, uh, you know we're the same. We're just out there doing just it's a different job.

Speaker 1: 1:47:31

Ours is more fun, though I think you know what I mean I mean I talked to some cops so they feel I feel like some I couldn't. I feel some have fun. The highway guys I feel have more fun than like a city cop because you're just dealing with the most bullshit calls all day. But I have some buddies that run highway and they're just trying to catch drug runners. They're more messing with people but yeah, I feel 100% firefighters. It's fun dude.

Speaker 1: 1:48:00

No, a firefighter doesn't show up anywhere and be like fuck, the firefighters are here Right.

Speaker 2: 1:48:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:48:06

I feel that's probably where it comes from with the cops, because everywhere you go, you guys are loved and they're just not.

Speaker 2: 1:48:11

The neighbors will bring you. You know, during the holidays they'll bring you cakes or they'll bring you. They cooked you a pie and hey, it's just they like us better.

Speaker 1: 1:48:20

I mean, we bring extra sour to the fire department, right?

Speaker 2: 1:48:23

Now, do the people go to the police department and do that? Probably not. No, they should. I wish they did because I love the cops. Right, if you need a cop, you know, but they're handcuffed.

Speaker 2: 1:48:33

They're really handcuffed and I don't know. This is a little bit different here in Idaho they're not as, but in California, dude, I could tell you crazy stories Like what? So I had when I was managing that building in San Francisco it's in the Richmond district, I'm still managing it we had a guy come in and defecate in our building this was in the middle of the pandemic Walked up to the fourth floor there's the landing to the roof, and a tenant goes hey, there's somebody up there doing some weird stuff. So I grab a baton, I got an Aspen at the house over there at the apartment, and he's literally defecating. And I go what are you doing? And he looks at me. He goes what do you think I'm doing? I go you better stop that, dude, I want to come over there and crack you. There was no cameras there. He goes if you come one inch closer, I'm going to throw this at you. And he's at his feces, right, I'm like whoa touche, okay, I don't want to get splayed, right. All right, cool, I call the cops and I embellished a little bit. He's got a weapon or whatever.

Speaker 2: 1:49:41

Never came. And so the guy leaves. To his credit, he had a little bag and he took his stuff with him and so I called him back up. I go you guys, I was calling you guys. You never came. Oh yeah, we came out there. Yeah, what time, 11.30. I go no, you didn't. The cameras. I got cameras on the outside. You never came. I call a buddy of mine that was a cop over there. Now this is going to be. You know, you may want to edit this out, but I'm going to just say whatever. And the guy goes did you give a description of the guy of the perp? I go yeah, he goes what was it? It was a mid-40s black guy. He goes we're not coming out on that. I go why not? He goes we don't want to end up on CNN. This was right after the George Floyd thing. We don't want to end up having our uh. And I go okay, I get it, I don't blame them.

Speaker 1: 1:50:30

I go so then what do I do? He goes there's nothing you can do. If you crack that dude, you're going to go to cops, especially in liberal cities like that. How did politics play such a role when it came to that type of stuff for the fire department, like, is it just? Did you guys have your hands tied with anything, or are you more like what? What were you guys dealing with politically wise that affected your job as a firefighter.

Speaker 2: 1:51:00

So it didn't. I wouldn't say it affected in the way we responded to our calls, the way it affected the uh, the cops, but internally it affected it because when you have um processes like DEI and affirmative action was what they called it, yeah, now you're getting people and I'm I'm all about a meritocracy. I'm not going to. If you can do the job, you should get the job 100%, regardless 100%. But when meritocracy becomes a bad word, we have a problem. Okay, and we had a problem. So people were getting hired and promoted. They weren't qualified for it.

Speaker 1: 1:51:41

Like what um? They weren't qualified for it.

Speaker 2: 1:51:47

Like what well, just time, and grade or unqualified because they just couldn't do the job.

Speaker 1: 1:51:49

Do the job they're getting promoted because they're a person of color or female, or what.

Speaker 2: 1:51:52

100 you saw that a lot, I saw that a lot. So my brother and I, towards the end of my career even though I was going out as captain, I wanted a permanent position, right, it would've been kind of cool to end up. That's why I ended up retiring early. So I took a test and I compared it with other people's results and there was, like a gal, that they gave them a multiplier. So if you are in a certain category, you get a multiplier. Why? Because the numbers have to reflect a certain balance, right, because then they'll be well. We don't want all white males to have this or that. Why don't we just get the most qualified person for the job.

Speaker 2: 1:52:32

Do we want somebody flying an aluminum tube in the middle of the air with 300 people that just because they're classified because of the color of their skin or their gender? Or do you want the most qualified? You want the most qualified Marine seal, whatever it is, or do we want it based on color and gender? Everything in that fight? Well now I will say this the new chief was is a good dude Like he. I think they're trying to make things better, but the previous two were 100% behind that, because everything is driven by who the mayor is.

Speaker 2: 1:53:08

We need this and there are groups, there are certain groups that are pushing for more promotions. So when you have an appointed position that's making, let's say, $250,000, $300,000 a year, you're going to have groups that are going to have a say in who that who gets hired, and it may not even be the chief mayor's going to call and say this is who's going to get appointed to that job. That is insane, insane. So I had the deck stacked against me, you know totally. And now, when I first got into this job, it wasn't like that. I never thought it would turn into that. But San Francisco is a political city and it got way worse. And I remember they cut the budget after George Floyd London Breed was the mayor and they cut the budget and they used this BS excuse that we're going to turn, I think, took a hundred million or 120 million from the cops and put it into groups or communities, you know. And then they're like, oh, we're just going to have more social workers. Well, a social worker cannot respond to a domestic violence call. Never, cause that's going to turn violent. And what are you going to do? Shake your pen at them. Right, so it didn't work out.

Speaker 2: 1:54:24

The crime went crazy. We had a DA there by the name of Chesa Boudin. He ended up the first guy, even as crazy as San Francisco is. They recalled him. He was. You ever heard of the guy Chesa Boudin? His parents were in jail for killing cops. He was part of, or his parents were part of, the Weather Underground communist group. He had this thing called restorative justice. There was a revolving door. If you were a person of color and you committed crime, you were out. No matter what, almost no matter what. It just had to have been something heinous. It was. You know the whole thing. Even though that was a law, you walk into a walgreens and steal 900 and nothing you know. So san francisco will feel the effects of that guy being the da for years oh look how many companies left.

Speaker 2: 1:55:15

Oh, it's ridiculous in my neighborhood. It's crazy.

Speaker 1: 1:55:18

I think it was like walgreens or something pulled all their stores, or cvs pulled all their stores out. This is almost shut down all the starbucks like pulled out of all those areas. I mean they're it's. It's insane to me. I've I actually just saw a video not too long ago these cops arresting these women and they're like it's less than 900 and they're like, yeah, wrong county motherfucker, like I guess they were like just a block over it was different districts or whatever didn't fall under the san francisco county, but these women thought it was like california statewide.

Speaker 1: 1:55:47

These cops like yeah, you're done. And like you're done room in the car because it was.

Speaker 2: 1:55:51

They're like, we don't play those games here no, san mateo county, they're more of a conservative county. You do something you're going to spend time in jim across the street, and you do it in san Francisco, and nothing's going to happen. So I saw, yeah, a lot of increase in crime because of that and it's just that. It's that woke mindset it's, it's a virus, I think you know like that's what I just can't.

Speaker 1: 1:56:13

I can't understand when it comes to politics. I'll never argue with anybody over politics. I'll stir the pot sometimes because people get so worked up on it. But it's like how do you support that? How are you going to vote for that? And think that that's.

Speaker 2: 1:56:29

I don't care what side's voting for no.

Speaker 1: 1:56:30

You could just steal $900, walk in and walk out and nobody can do anything about it. I've seen it how do you feel that that's going to help your city or community Right? How does that benefit it Right?

Speaker 2: 1:56:39

So then what ends up happening? Obviously, if you go into an Apple store and the guys walk in and you've seen the videos right, they're stealing tens of thousands of dollars worth of product, what's going to happen? Guess what? The prices are going to go up, and that's me and you people that go and pay for our shit. We're going to go pay for it. So now we are directly affected by it. Go pay for it. So now we are directly affected by it. So I mean, I just finally I think the final straw for me in San Francisco was the way they handle the COVID situation, and I got out.

Speaker 1: 1:57:09

Oh yeah, that's when I came here, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:57:11

Everybody fled. Everybody fled Like whoa, you guys are trying to control us Everything we do. Luckily, I had a doctor that I didn't know. I'm like, should I do this thing, like this vaccine thing? Guy goes no, really. Yeah, I had a doctor that was like that In San Francisco, in San Francisco, oh, he's a. He's a rare guy. I'm not naming names because he's probably going to get on put on, but he was telling me he goes.

Speaker 2: 1:57:40

I remember going in there if you want, because back then if you walk into a medical office, you had to have a mask. I look at him, I go, really, take it off. I go you're the only person that's ever told me that he goes. You want to go down the rabbit hole? I go, I do, let's go. And he just sat there and he goes look, you're this years old, you're healthy, you have no problems, you ain't dying from this thing. It's the people with the you know, comorbidities and all that. And he goes you don't want to take this vaccine, you don't. You know, blah, blah, blah and all that. And then he got into it about how, since the 80s, they've increased the amount of vaccines that people have to take. And now I can still call him. Like.

Speaker 2: 1:58:21

My dad was in the hospital with COVID a few months ago, or last year, I think, and they wanted to give him remdesivir and I heard that's not good. So I called him up. I go what do you think he goes? Make sure they don't give it to him. So I got into it with the attending. I go, don't give it to him. It was under the phone, why not?

Speaker 1: 1:58:49

I go. I have to answer that question. You're not giving it to them because I'm on the list as like someone uh, with you know, uh, power of attorney for my dad, that's it. Okay, you know they'll push back, man, they will, they push, and it's aggressive, dude, you do like we, we, we don't anymore. We have a really good doctor now, but for the kids, but I mean the wife would catch shit all the time for vac, not even coveted vaccine, but I'm talking just any vaccines we've. We've always, we've been against them for a long time because she ended up getting a vaccine when she was little, then the next day had a grandma seizure. So we put that together. She ended up. I mean it was like nine minutes before the paramedics got to the house and she was locked up the whole time. They hit her with something. She came out of it. We ended up at chalk's children's hospital Hospital, oh my God, over Christmas. It was an ordeal and the wife, that was it. She's like we're done.

Speaker 2: 1:59:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:59:24

They couldn't prove anything. And they came back to us like, well, sometimes the mind has a hiccup. And my wife's like, oh, we just got a vaccine shot, like a normal checkup shot. And then all of a sudden we're in the hospital and the grandma yeah, we were done then. But every time we'd go they're like, oh, the girls are behind. The wife's like, yeah, we're fine, see, that's what this doctor told me.

Speaker 2: 1:59:44

He goes if you ever look. Obviously you're not going to look at that big piece of paper that comes with the vaccine because they just inject you. He goes, look at it one day.

Speaker 1: 1:59:50

Look at how many different vaccines It'll scare the crap out of you.

Speaker 2: 2:00:04

I retired, I wanted to travel, or before my retirement and then the COVID hit and you couldn't travel, especially if you didn't get a vaccine. They want you to, they want you to get vaccinated, and so I wanted to. I wanted to go to Southeast Asia. I have never been, I'd never been to Thailand before, I'd never been to Vietnam, laos, japan, all of of that stuff. So I started going there a lot and just because it was a goal, there was a. It was a goal. But I also started getting into the culture over there in the thai culture. It's an amazing culture, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:00:33

So to make a long story short, I uh was in a relationship for four years and she didn't want to come to Idaho for Filipino gal, wonderful woman, she's going to watch this and I still love her, you know. And she said, uh, they're very tribal and communal and there's not really a Filipino community out here. And I says I got to go. So I left and I was on the dating apps and all that, and it was a nightmare trying to find somebody. You know, you're 57. It's not. It's not like you get a big choice of stuff right, unless you're a multi-millionaire, maybe, for sure. So a buddy of mine goes I think you'd like thailand he goes and he married a thai girl who's been married to her for 12 years, has two kids with her. It's really cool and he says just avoid the bars, avoid the tourist traps and the sex trades and all that.

Speaker 2: 2:01:20

Thailand's wild. Thailand's wild, I mean, but if you go away from those areas like Pattaya and the Bangkok area, there are areas that are just it's whoa man, like I don't go. I've been to Phuket and all those other places. I don't like the scene. I don't drink that much and I'm not into, you know, bar girls and all that. But I've met some incredible women out there Because it's Buddhism, it's a different mindset, it's a different way of thinking, and so I got into the culture and I traveled to Laos. I went to Vietnam. I've spent some time in Japan, you know. So I go there. I was latched on to one girl for a while. Things didn't work out. So I just keep going, man, I just keep pushing over there.

Speaker 1: 2:02:05

You got that. Asian fever is what you got, Dude. I was born in San Francisco, man.

Speaker 2: 2:02:09

I mean my ex-wife's Filipino. My other girlfriend was Mexican Filipino, then after that she was. So yeah, it's just that, that's what I grew up around and that's what my eyes kind of go to.

Speaker 1: 2:02:19

You're like, I'm just going to go to the source.

Speaker 2: 2:02:21

Well, you know exactly, and they like you man I mean, of course they're going to say, well, they look you for your money. They like I told someone that the other day they go well, you know, they're after you for your money. They are here too. Okay, so at least I'll get someone who's 20 years younger than me. You know what I mean. Cool, I just accept it Right and we go with it and I have a blast. I'm going, my son's getting married on August 3rd and I'm leaving for Japan on August 5th.

Speaker 1: 2:02:50

Really.

Speaker 2: 2:02:51

Yeah, when are you going? I'm landing in Haneda and I'm going to spend some time in Yokohama. There's a gal that I've been talking with. I'm going to spend like three days chilling with her. She's a Thai girl that lives in Japan.

Speaker 1: 2:03:02

Look at you, bro. You got an empty nest and now you're just Doing what I want.

Speaker 2: 2:03:06

I live on my terms.

Speaker 1: 2:03:07

Good for you. What's that like? Seriously, I mean you put a career in, you're retired.

Speaker 2: 2:03:15

I put a career in your kids are grown. I raised my two kids pretty much by myself why, it was a very contentious divorce and it was contentious for way too long and at the end of it I wanted to move to san francisco. When we were in the east bay, she didn't want to. The courts, believe it or not, ruled in my favor in california, you got the rules in your now in contra, costa was a little bit more conservative.

Speaker 1: 2:03:39

Okay.

Speaker 2: 2:03:40

So she wanted to keep them there and I wanted to move to San Francisco. She made a very, very big mistake in like making a false accusation against me and when you know which is a ridiculous, it was a. What did she say? One day? I'm and this was a long time ago, but she made the claim that I was using my kids to distribute marijuana. I don't know her. Oh, he's growing marijuana and his four and eight year olds eight year old children are dealing.

Speaker 2: 2:04:12

So the cops came to my house and took them away from me. Really, and I'm telling you that was as close as I've ever come to doing something that I probably would still be in jail for, right Sure. And I didn't do it because the cop said I go, you can tear this house down. They looked at me, they go. We know, we've seen your record, we understand, but the order is the order and we have to go. So what I suggest is you just chill out and you'll get your kids back in a month, when this thing is done in a month, and so that was the hardest month of my life not being with those kids. So what happened was my lawyer and I all the credit to this guy said this is, this is the strategy. We're going to get you a binding arbitrator and, if they agree to it her and her attorney you're going to win. Why? Because they like you. You're going to win why? Because they like you. You're a likable person and you tell the truth and she has a record, right?

Speaker 2: 2:05:07

Okay, the day came you know talking about moving to San Francisco, and this arbitrator had the power to make a decision that was binding, so we didn't have to go to court, and I'll never forget it. When she goes. Two weeks from now, I'm going to make a decision. And she looked at both of us and she says if you dare talk to your kids and try to influence them, I'll come down on the person that does it. And she goes I'll come down on you hard. They have my number. And I'm like cool. Two weeks passes by, we sit down, she goes I'm giving the kids to rafael and he has 100 custody damn, he got so lucky. And then she looked at her and she goes how dare you like? She's dressing her down right? How dare you tell? You know, tell the cops that he did this. He doesn't even have a record. In fact, you're the one anyway. So it was, it was a. I was vindicated after that that was a hard month?

Speaker 2: 2:06:06

oh for sure it's not cool you know, so in turn, I had people that took me under their wing. Now I take people under my wing when that code because the the deck is stacked against you a hundred percent another corrupt program is the, the system where fathers I mean oh I know so many good dads.

Speaker 1: 2:06:26

I know so many good dads that, yeah, I've lost everything because the wife says something and look at, look at, vick man like what's going on with that dude.

Speaker 2: 2:06:35

I mean that's unbelievable, shouldn't happen, but keep your head down and move forward. So you asked me how's it like being autonomous? Yeah, so what's sorry?

Speaker 1: 2:06:45

No, you're good. So what's life like being retired? Grown ass kids, you got the Asian, the Asian fever, and you get to travel the world.

Speaker 2: 2:06:52

Let's fucking live in, bro. Amazing dude. I mean I literally will just no, I still got my parents, which I helped my brother take care of. I still got to go back to San Francisco and do stuff. Okay, but I will go out for a month at a time.

Speaker 1: 2:07:07

Really.

Speaker 2: 2:07:07

This time I might go for six weeks, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:07:09

Really Well.

Speaker 2: 2:07:10

I got no obligations right. I got a pension check coming in. I go. My biggest decision is do I fly premium or coach? I hate flying coach right, so I can't fly. Business is really expensive From here to Thailand. It's like 7 Gs right, but premium is like 25, and it's way more comfortable. It's worth it.

Speaker 1: 2:07:30

It's worth it, especially for an 18-hour flight or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 2: 2:07:36

So this time I broke it up, so Japan is 10, and then Thailand is like six from there. So I'll break it up a little bit.

Speaker 1: 2:07:47

Where's your favorite place over there In Thailand, east Asia?

Speaker 2: 2:07:51

Thailand for sure. Yeah, why? The north or the northeast is the best part? It's the culture the people are, so they appreciate a person who's kind. I can't tell you how many times I've heard man, a kind guy, a guy americans are assholes.

Speaker 1: 2:08:05

Especially when we travel, it's embarrassing sometimes. Yeah well, we go places and it's just like oh my god, japan is like that.

Speaker 2: 2:08:12

They don't really like you over there. No, and it's not because of them, but maybe a little bit. Okay, they're a little racist. They're a little racist, okay. Okay, they're a lot. But people go in there and act like assholes Like you ever seen people on the trains? They want you to be quiet and okay, I get it, don't break dance on a Shinkansen train out there, yeah. But yeah, you're right, it is.

Speaker 2: 2:08:37

I walked in. I was with my Thai gal a year ago. We were in Japan. I walk into a restaurant that I read on Google that had great reviews. Place was half empty. I have a table for two. We got no room. I'm like no room. What am I going to do? Complain to the Chamber of Commerce or the Better Business Bureau? No, you're in another country, dude. Okay, move on to the next one. But it was just the way it goes. So you don't feel that. I don't feel that in Thailand Even though in Thailand you're never going to be one of them right, they're a welcoming and wonderful culture, but it's a closed culture. They don't have the illegal immigration and all that stuff. If you overstay your state, you're going, they're going to kick you out For sure. So follow the rules. Don't get drunk and be a jerk and mess with people and people you're kind, they love you yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:09:30

You know that's good man. I'm glad you're living life. So what are you doing now, Now that you're retired, besides traveling to Asia and having fun over there? What are you doing now?

Speaker 2: 2:09:43

So you had a guy on Victor that was a real time results. Yep, I had him do some. I met his dude at the gym and we started talking about it. I'm like dude, and he looked at I had it done 10 years ago. And he goes yeah, I could tell, but the guy didn't really do a good job. He said I go, yeah, really do a good job. He said I go, yeah, I don't think he did either. And so he goes doing what? Uh? Scalp micropigmentation. So basically it's, it's tattooing my head right to make it this appearance that I have, uh, a five o'clock shadow on my head, yeah. So he, I ask him well, how much you know? And he tells me to do my head. And I go do you teach this? I go because this looks kind of cool, I'd like to do that. He goes why don't you come into the shop and see what I do? Cool, I'm like, well, that's amazing.

Speaker 2: 2:10:25

He just changed the way this dude looked within four hours, like I walked out, looked at like a different person, you know, and I signed up for his apprenticeship, really Now, and so then, yeah, and so I did six weeks and he offered me a spot at the shop and so I'm like cool, do you ever think in your life? Never, never. And if you look at the two of us, we're bookends.

Speaker 1: 2:10:50

Now we're friends.

Speaker 2: 2:10:51

Yeah, like he'll go. Hey, you want to go have a cigar at the cigar bar? Okay, like last night we went out for dinner and so if you look at me, you got this 57 year old dude barely have tattoos. I got him, but not a lot right with this dude. That, like you know, like he he says it. Dude, I know I look like an ms-13 gang member. He's not. He's one of the nicest guys I've ever met in my life, you know. So I consider him a friend. So, anyway, now I'm trying to develop my own. I've taken on some people. I'm getting. It's not easy thing to do, really no, because you're sitting there putting tens of thousands of dots, so every hair follicle, which would be a dot.

Speaker 1: 2:11:28

Yes, so you don't have like a big. I didn't get into it much with him. Yeah, because the story is just so wild. I actually want to have like a part two and three with him. But so every you're not. You don't have like a specifically made needle that's putting multiple at a time, or is it a single?

Speaker 2: 2:11:46

So the most of them have like three tiny ones that make one dot, yeah, you know. So every dot that you see is just you going like that. How many sessions does this take? It depends on what you need.

Speaker 2: 2:11:59

Like for me, I needed five sessions because he went from like you can't see it here, but my hairline would start here, so he did my whole head. It took five, five hour sessions but he took his sweet time doing it because you know, I'm the model, right If I'm going to be working there and I'm his apprentice, but he's going to do a good job, no matter what. He's phenomenal and I'm not just saying that to kiss his butt, right, because I watch him. He'll sit there like this and do it without even looking. He's so good at it and he wants me to succeed and he's teaching me social media. I know we talk about the phone and all that, but, as you know, like right here, social media is a way to get to people right. And what's the hardest part for me, I got to use magnifying glasses to do it. You know what I mean. Like I have these magnifying eyeglasses and cause I get and I love it. Good for you, we, we did this one guy.

Speaker 2: 2:12:51

He had a hair transplant scar. Vic did the hair, the scar, I did most of the rest of the head and the guy called me up crying the other day. He goes I haven't been out without a hat in five years. You guys changed my. So that's kind of what you did as a paramedic or a firefighter. You change lives every once in a while, but now I could do it without somebody in distress. Really, you know what I mean. So it's, it's. I love doing it. So I'm just looking to build a business. I may even look at it doing it while I'm in Thailand. No kidding, that's a business write-off, right. So if I do it, there are people that do it. Japan, you can't. You need a major degree to do tattoos and stuff Japan takes a decade to get certified for anything.

Speaker 2: 2:13:38

I was talking to a gal over there and she goes no, I can't become a tattoo artist. You almost need a medical degree to do it, you know. So I want to look at it. Do it, just take my equipment with me and do it in Japan. Why? I mean not.

Speaker 1: 2:13:50

Japan, thailand. I could see you in a couple of years, never coming back, and that's going to be your thing over there.

Speaker 2: 2:13:56

Do you know what the one factor is? And you know this, being in a hot weather weather, that weather is miserable. It's brutal. The only one one time I went there during their hot season it's oppressive. Yeah, like here, it's nice and dry.

Speaker 1: 2:14:10

100 degrees is tolerable there, uh-uh, you're dying, sweating 90 humidity or whatever.

Speaker 2: 2:14:15

Um, that's not built for big guys. No, I just die, no die over there right so that's All right.

Speaker 1: 2:14:23

Well, so you go there. You're going to live there for six months until it gets hot. I can see that. I can already see this. Yeah, I'm already thinking about it.

Speaker 2: 2:14:31

Like okay, I get a condo over there. I have one gal because I don't want to be doing the shuffle with multiple women. How many women are you juggling now? I don't want to say, because they might be watching this dude.

Speaker 1: 2:14:42

Oh yeah, my bad, my bad, we'll edit that one out. They're going to watch this. I'm trying to put you on blast, all right, yeah, yeah yeah, it's all right, though We'll talk offline.

Speaker 2: 2:14:50

So yeah, yeah, yeah. But I had one that I was dating. I had the visa process going. It's not easy to bring someone here.

Speaker 1: 2:15:03

My buddy's, one of my really good friends. His wife's from Africa and it took years, years and I and how expensive it is it's a year and a half now a minimum to bring them from, let's say, thailand to here.

Speaker 2: 2:15:19

Expense. I hired a lawyer, paid it's. I mean it's not like like here, it's like you spend a grand over there or something. It's actually worked out, it gets, it'll get work. But now everything is is in the government's hands here and it goes through so many different departments. It's a wreck, you know. So things didn't work out after a year and a half so I had to cancel that visa. I'm glad I did, you know dodged that bless her.

Speaker 2: 2:15:40

She was a great one, she's a great lady, but made a critical error. What critical error? Just being dishonest with me with certain things. You know it wasn't a cheating thing, it was just like you know. She knew she was coming here and she wanted to work in an industry that I didn't want her to work in. What industry? The massage industry. Okay, because she wanted more money and I was helping her out every month. I was giving her enough to, you know, survive. And so she goes. I want more and more and then I go. Uh-uh, what type of massage industry, any type of massage industry could be? You know, if you're my lady, I'm a traditional guy. You're not touching men's bodies, okay.

Speaker 1: 2:16:18

Ever Okay.

Speaker 2: 2:16:19

Right, just like I'm not going to be touching women's bodies. I'm not cool with that, okay. So when I told her that she's like you know, and then when she realized I canceled the visa, she got mad. Not mad, but like please, please, and I can't. You know it's a complicated story. I don't want to go too deep into it, but I'm glad that. So now it's like the world is your pearl over there, literally, literally.

Speaker 1: 2:16:47

I can see people hearing this going they want your money okay cool but I'm having they all do, they all do they all do you're.

Speaker 2: 2:16:53

If you're a traditional man, you're gonna take on that role. And okay, you know, do you protect yourself? Sure, nobody's getting my pension, nobody's gonna get my property.

Speaker 1: 2:17:04

That's funny to me, Like oh, they're just gold diggers over there.

Speaker 2: 2:17:07

They're just haters.

Speaker 1: 2:17:08

Everybody. Oh, they're all gold diggers. Unless they meet you and you're in the military, then you know they're not a gold digger, oh you got a pension, okay, cool. You don't pay my bills right. Instead, you get them 20 years younger.

Speaker 2: 2:17:22

That's the average about someone like. The girls that I was dating were probably about 35 or 38.

Speaker 1: 2:17:27

And you're 57? 57.

Speaker 2: 2:17:30

Good for you. You know what's weird? Like you go over there and you see these guys and some of them their bellies are down to their knees and they're horrific looking people, right, they don't take care of themselves, they're drunk and they right the with the. They don't take care of themselves, they're drunk and they've got these beautiful girls on there. And you know now, when you look at that at least I take care of myself and present somewhat. You know, reasonable, right, when you see that it kind of annoys you. But whatever, that's not my, it's not my thing.

Speaker 1: 2:17:53

No, hey, it's easy. That's the one thing I've learned in the last years. There are some things that I judge people on, like parenting. Yes, there are certain things that I just cannot break myself of, but overall, if you're going to live your life, do it. I could give a shit.

Speaker 2: 2:18:14

You're not hurting anybody.

Speaker 1: 2:18:15

Yeah, that's their thing. You see, so many people just have an opinion on it. It's like give us a fuck.

Speaker 2: 2:18:24

Dude. It's similar to me where I was dealing with people that were judgmental, they were critical and they're always making. They're very opinionated and I go why?

Speaker 1: 2:18:32

what does it?

Speaker 2: 2:18:33

matter if that person is, that, I don't really care. You know how they dress, or at the gym, I'm not sitting there, like you know. Oh, my god, look at her. You know, because all the girls out there are dressed. You've, you've been to the gym. I'm not sitting there, like you know. Oh my God, look at her. You know, because all the girls out there are dressed. You've been to the gym, they all. It's a little much. Sometimes it's a little much, but I'm not gawking, I'm not going to sit there and go, oh.

Speaker 1: 2:18:51

Okay, so as a 57-year-old dude, I'm 40. Yeah, how awkward is it in the gym sometimes these days it's in what way these women, man like I got a daughter now and like in the non-gawking but like you know, zach, yeah, so he's my boy, yeah, and we'll be like just a few.

Speaker 2: 2:19:09

He's a trainer right.

Speaker 1: 2:19:10

His wife works there as well, he's on the leg press machine and I just finished a set, and leg days with him are the worst thing you could ever go through.

Speaker 2: 2:19:19

That's just people. That was electrodes I don't do though that far.

Speaker 1: 2:19:22

So I'm already in my own like hell. So I'm in my own, I'm in my own mindset and I'm spaced out. And then, like when I like unspace out, I'm staring directly at this chick wearing damn near like a bikini in there and she's staring at me and I'm like you can't even scan anymore in there, because then they're like then this motherfucker's staring and then they put you on the internet. So now it's like terrifying being an older guy and like gum. And then, if you have a platform, now that I feel like you're just a target, they're trying to out anything. So it's, it's, it's so. Sometimes it's just so hard with the, especially how they dress. Like if they're just dressed normal cool, it wouldn't be a problem. But it's not even just our gym, it's every gym now.

Speaker 1: 2:20:05

I've actually just saw a thing where these gyms are now requiring a lot of gyms are coming out with dress codes Good.

Speaker 2: 2:20:13

All right, I mean some of them. It's cool to look at Because you know what. You're 40. I'm 57. Our eyes are no different. No right, I don't look at like and I'm not complaining no, it's good, but I'm but at the some certain times it's overboard. Maybe certain people shouldn't dress like if I see a guy that's begging, whatever. Don't wear a tank top well, and it's the same.

Speaker 1: 2:20:37

It's the same as these dudes wearing spandex in there and like I gotta see your freaking your outline it's.

Speaker 2: 2:20:42

It's like bro come on and he's got a camera on a tripod, like really dude, you know.

Speaker 1: 2:20:48

I'm not trying to meet gays, but I mean, you're in spandex, you're doing pull-ups in front of everybody, it's just there. Exactly Right, it's the same with these women.

Speaker 2: 2:21:03

These minute these women, like guys, don't care about it anymore. They, they've seen it all looking. Yeah, we're looking, but I'm not gonna stare. I'll say okay, cool, because they, you know you're putting it out there, right?

Speaker 1: 2:21:09

I don't want to be a reason. I'm not that guy, and you know what it's hard, though it is hard to not be the creeper in the gym anymore, but see the time that I spent.

Speaker 2: 2:21:17

I see gorgeous women over there like tens, and they don't even know it that's the weird part, really like you get a girl who's gorgeous, because there's so many beautiful women out there, they feel like they're not beautiful and I'm like in america that you would be scooped up here, you know. That's why I'm not bringing you here.

Speaker 1: 2:21:34

I'm just kidding, you know but they get corrupted by some feminist shit. Oh, the dude ruined in no time.

Speaker 2: 2:21:40

Yeah, you're not. No, there's no way, right? So you have to. I've tried to meet people that are a little bit more traditional and not as gullible, because if they come here, things are going to happen right.

Speaker 1: 2:21:51

Oh yeah well, what so? What's the biggest culture difference between here and then the asian culture that you see?

Speaker 2: 2:21:59

I'm accepting of traditional roles okay yeah, it like look, you're the man you're going to take care of me and in turn, I'm going to take care of you, and that's it. That's just the way it goes. Now, if they've been more westernized, then you know. So my friend pointed out something good and he talked about, like you know, intimate relationships with them. Friend pointed out something good and he talked about, like you know, intimate relationships with them, whereas here someone in a relationship might you might get, uh, one party using it as a weapon. I'm not giving you this. Yeah, that will never happen over there. It's almost like oh, intimacy is the same as food and water. It's just part of it. You know, know. So you know they put a very high premium on hygiene and stuff out there which is cool yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:22:46

I like that, you know, and so they expect the same out of you. But yeah, the traditional roles is what I see.

Speaker 1: 2:22:52

Are we going to see you on one of these seasons of 90 Day Fiance? No.

Speaker 2: 2:22:56

No, because that's all drama, dude, that's all drama dude, that's all drama.

Speaker 1: 2:23:06

I want to. I want to watch that show with a psychologist or a shrink sitting next to me, just to break down the psyche of those people and how they choose and they create.

Speaker 2: 2:23:12

Oh so I'm not. I'm a drama free guy. If you're going to bring drama into my life, that's one of the things that I like with these, a lot of these girls I go. If you bring me drama, I'm done. Yep, immediately I want to deal with it.

Speaker 1: 2:23:21

I've had enough in my career, in my life, and so if you bring me peace, god love you, I will take care of you and um, that's where I like, yeah, you're definitely not wrong, though I remember I actually enjoy this show, just because it's so crazy the mindset of people we were watching one and this, this black chick, was like dating some arab guy. And I was like I told the wife I'm like one, this, this whole entire thing is fake or she has no idea what she's getting herself into. Culturally wise. She's like what do you mean? I'm like you don't just marry an arab. Like you have to convert, yes, everything they're. So you don't just go and marry some dude from dubai, right as as a westerner. And she's like what do you mean? What do you mean? And then the show that season was going on, and then he was like, uh, you got to convert and my parents are going to accept. And my wife's like, holy shit, I'm like that's.

Speaker 1: 2:24:14

That's how dumb and just ignorant this chick was that she thinks she's gonna go marry some rich arab, yeah, and just be like, oh, I'm going to put a towel over my head and I'm good to go, like not happening. And so then they ended up. She ends up having to flee and like the family's threatening to kill the brother. I'm like this is crazy and these people have no idea what they're getting themselves into. And like you're dating some crazy Ukrainian Russian Like no shit she's going to try to stab you in your sleep. Crazy ukrainian russian like no shit, she's gonna try to stab you in your sleep.

Speaker 2: 2:24:46

That's true, though it is what it is. You're gonna convert to a, a religion that kind of like subjugates you, right, I mean I think it's one of the recent ones.

Speaker 1: 2:24:55

I'm watching this retired meth head. You could tell he's got meth mouth and shit. No offense if the dude ever sees this. He looks like a washed up crackhead and he's got some asian muslim that he's got meth mouth and shit. No offense if the dude never sees this. He looks like a washed up crackhead and he's. He's got some asian muslim that he's trying to marry and then he's converting to become a muslim and like he's going to this mosque and he's, he's. He doesn't even know how to pray properly. I'm just like bro, like this no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1: 2:25:17

It can't work, no, no no, it's all, that's all I know. It's all all TV, and those producers just eat it alive.

Speaker 2: 2:25:23

They want to. They're fomenting that stuff because, like anything, a good story would never. Why would I want to watch a story of, let's say, I go in there and meet some nice girl and everything's cool and we have just a boring day of going out and enjoying life why would you? That's not going to sell a season.

Speaker 1: 2:25:39

No, right, but every episode you're getting in a fight, right? That's my biggest thing. Like every episode there's a fight. If I was about to marry a foreigner and I'm fighting, not going to happen Non-stop, I'd be like what, not going?

Speaker 2: 2:25:50

to happen. No, no, this gal that I was with her English wasn't great, but shit happens for a reason, right, so whatever. But no, dude, I remember when I was on the dating sites I met there was a Muslim gal, because Thailand's mostly Buddhist, but you get some. I'm like it can't work. There's no way Between me the way I think and I'm not A Jewish man and a Muslim woman yeah, that's a. It can't work. There's almost like an inherent hatred between us. Right, I don't hate her. I'm not going to have halal meat or whatever.

Speaker 1: 2:26:30

Historically, speaking going back a few thousand years, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:26:36

My mom, oh, oh, Okay if I married a Catholic girl, she wasn't happy If I married a Muslim girl, I would get disowned Like are you kidding me? Those people kicked me out of, like you know anyway.

Speaker 1: 2:26:48

Okay, so here's a Jewish question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, since you got your hair done, how does that?

Speaker 2: 2:26:51

work, so we're not supposed to have tattoos. Yeah, by religion. Okay, I'm not religious.

Speaker 1: 2:26:57

Okay.

Speaker 2: 2:26:58

So. So I've always been kind of the black sheep of the family, because my dad's a traditional. My dad was born in Burma, which is now Myanmar.

Speaker 1: 2:27:06

Okay.

Speaker 2: 2:27:07

And the Japanese bombed Burma in 41, I believe, and they moved to India, spent 10 years, maybe 10, 15 years, over there and then came here. Okay, my mom was like an immigrant from Egypt they went from and they all came here legally. Here's the point of legally. And my dad joined the military right when he got here. So after the military he was stationed in Germany, of all places uh, in the late fifties, I believe it was, and served there during the Korean war. He wasn't in battle or anything, he was an administrative guy. Came here and met my mom at a synagogue in San Francisco.

Speaker 1: 2:27:45

Really yeah, sorry if that was an ignorant question.

Speaker 2: 2:27:47

No, not at all dude.

Speaker 1: 2:27:49

I have a buddy that was Jewish. No, that's a good question. He got tattooed and his family? They're like you're never getting married in our cemetery.

Speaker 2: 2:27:57

Oh, you're not getting married. Yeah, yeah or not married.

Speaker 1: 2:27:59

Never getting buried, and I remember it was a huge ordeal, huge for him, and so that's why I was wondering if that counts or not.

Speaker 2: 2:28:06

I live my own life, dude. I mean from point A to point Z, and in fact, when one of my brothers goes man, your hair looks pretty good, I go, I'll do it for you.

Speaker 1: 2:28:19

He goes. I Wow. Well, man, I appreciate you coming on, I appreciate it, I appreciate the conversation, get to know you. I see you all the time in the gym.

Speaker 2: 2:28:25

Right on man and we met at that event.

Speaker 1: 2:28:27

But yeah, dude, I enjoyed this conversation. This is why I love doing this, just to get the it didn't even seem like we were doing a show, we were just talking right, I know a lot of dudes like I've done a bunch of podcasts and some of them I feel like they're so scripted and they're all these like I have questions that I like to ask but at the same time I just see where it goes.

Speaker 2: 2:28:48

I did one. You ever heard of California Insider? No, so I think I might have sent it to you on an email. I did it. It's a Epoch Times group, yeah, and they're out of Southern California and, and they're out of Southern California and they were a big YouTube channel. On the episode that we did. It was about what was going on in San Francisco. A lot of it was based on the tenant. It was called the vacancy tax that San Francisco implemented. So if you had a property and you were renting it out, and if it wasn't rented out for six months, they start taxing you based on the. So the goal was let's bring in lower income people and lower the rent, so I did a huge.

Speaker 2: 2:29:23

It got almost a million views. I remember I was in Bangkok because from the time that we recorded it took about two months until he put it out there. He calls me up. This is a guy named Siamak Karami cool guy, man. He goes. Do you have thick skin? I go. I do and he goes. I'm letting it out today but you're going to get pounded, he goes. He goes.

Speaker 1: 2:29:45

Most of the comforting Well, I didn't care Like.

Speaker 2: 2:29:47

I already knew it. I had a nice suit on with an expensive watch and whatever. And the comments he goes. Don't look at the comments he goes. Most are good, but you're not going to look at the good ones. You're going to look at the comments like look at this a-hole, he's got his ten thousand dollar watch on and his two thousand dollar suit. He's a slumlord, he's a this I. The funniest one that I ever saw was a comment that a guy goes. I didn't. He goes oh, that's mussolini at 140 years old and I looked at it I started crying, laughing.

Speaker 2: 2:30:17

I go, okay maybe I do look like Mussolini, whatever, but so, yeah, I like doing stuff like this because I'm able to just tell the truth.

Speaker 1: 2:30:27

Yeah, that's all we do is sit down and shoot the shit. Yeah, absolutely, it's crazy what the internet, where the internet goes with people, of how much the different types of hate, what people fight over on the internet, is fascinating to me especially since we put out clips. People will fight to the death in the comments over a celebrity they've never met before defending them, or yeah, or a basketball star, or whatever right, well, her and I will sit here and we just laugh because we're like look at the comments yeah, yeah yeah, comments that they're fighting over, if Drake is a billionaire.

Speaker 2: 2:31:05

People are bored. They have nothing to argue about, right? I don't know. I see it. I see the comments all the time. He's like whoa, you're wasting your breath. You know? I got kicked off Instagram for making an off-color comment. Really, yeah, I make those all the time. So there's certain words that you cannot use. Moron is one of them.

Speaker 1: 2:31:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:31:28

Idiot is another one. Now Facebook, I can do whatever I want. Somebody called me. I forgot what they called me. I called them a brainless monkey. Oh yeah, I know, done. They're like you're done. We've warned you, whatever. So then the thing came out you're done, we've warned you, whatever. So then the thing came out, you can appeal it. And so I lost it. That's why I have a new account now. I've only got like 200 or 300 followers or whatever, whatever. I kind of said you know, okay, cool, but so you've got to watch what you say.

Speaker 1: 2:31:52

Yeah, I got banned for a while for using the word coons when we were coon hunting, right, yeah, apparently that's racist. And then I got banned. They gave me a suspension for a bit. I was and we're literally raccoon hunting and I said something with coons and, oh yeah, I got banned and I was like that's a new one for me. So I was like I can get way worse if they wanted, but I get, I used to.

Speaker 2: 2:32:15

I don't do it as often now, but I used to get banned on youtube like every week for 24 hours, just from commenting, right, and I would just would, just even if I said F you and I'm wasting my time doing it, but sometimes I'm laying in bed, I want to have fun. I'm laughing, right, 24 hours, 24 hours. So I just can't comment. But they're taking 18 bucks away from me a month because I'm paying for a non-ad subscription so I can watch.

Speaker 1: 2:32:40

So they're not going to kick me off of youtube, no, no, they're just going to say here, get the handcuffs, okay, great, yeah, I don't care, it's fascinating the psychology behind what social media has done and how they've changed us and and how obsessed and involved that we think we are to everything now and everybody has a an opinion. Yes, that's what it comes down to. Everybody has an opinion and it is. It's fascinating. Like I, I would like to have a shrink or some psychologist come on and just talk about the psyche of social media and what it does, because it is, like I said, like the fact that people are fighting over drake, being a billionaire or what. What gun is the best gun to carry for your, for your everyday carry? And these motherfuckers will be like rioting in the comments, fighting each other over this. I'm sitting back, like it's a personal thing, right which it honestly created one of my favorite pastimes.

Speaker 1: 2:33:33

Like I'll go into like politically driven something that I know I can just kick a hornet's nest and I'll just leave a comment, even if it's like against what? Something I believe in, I'll just say something Sure, and it just erupts and it's just like, and I just sit back and watch the dumpster fire burn, but I don't have to do any more as much, because now we have our own platform, like with these clips, and it's just a dumpster fire all the time anyway.

Speaker 2: 2:33:57

So if you, if like. One thing I learned from Vic is when we were, when he was doing my head. What he does is he he'll take a phone and place it right here and he's got a 50 inch screen TV over there and he goes live on TikTok, oh yeah, and within minutes he'll have like two, 3000 people Right, and so sometimes an off color comment will come in and he goes watch how I turn a negative into a positive and a positive into a negative, and so with the negative comment, he'll take it and then respond to it with a video and then he goes well, watch this. He goes, even with the positive comment. It's human nature for people to be negative, but both situations drives the algorithm For sure, and I'm like really.

Speaker 1: 2:34:40

That's phenomenal and he knows it. See, I don't ever go, I can't go live for this, because we have some, we have some colorful guests and they'll drop. They'll drop some words and I don't feel like getting canceled. No, please don't. But um, mainly my wife and so she'll say some shit, that's great and uh, but um, no, I'll go in and like pin a comment right, and if somebody just leaves and then it's almost like you just hang him out to the for the mob and then you know it is just wild. But it is so fascinating like we have. We have a video right now that is it's a month or two old and people are still fighting on it really over. You know what was a good one?

Speaker 1: 2:35:20

seal, the heidi klum's ex yeah I posted a video was about seal my my guests. I asked him what's the worst client he's ever worked for security wise, you know, like as a guest. He, long story short, he ended up taking over after heidi had an affair with her security guard. He replaced that security guard. Wow, okay, the amount of people that came out of the woodwork defending seal about being such an incredible man and that he's still up there to this right now this that episode is old oh I remember what episode he was it was early, yeah yeah, they're still fighting in the comments about how a seal, an actor or or drake being a billionaire and how does that serve you?

Speaker 1: 2:36:03

You know?

Speaker 2: 2:36:04

what I mean. It serves me great. No, it serves you, but I mean them. The algorithms love it. Exactly the people that are there fighting. Like what are you getting out of that, right? But hey, okay, human nature. You want to argue? I think people get away with being an a-hole over behind a keyboard. Say whatever they want, with no consequences, because no one's going to pop them. Oh, I fucking slap them Right.

Speaker 1: 2:36:23

I've done it on Instagram. They deleted it. I've slapped a couple of people before.

Speaker 2: 2:36:26

You mean, like you literally sent it a slap emoji?

Speaker 1: 2:36:27

Yeah, no, I've caught a couple of people and yeah. But I caught a kid one night stealing and I slapped the shit out of him in a gas station parking lot. Oh good, oh good. That went pretty wild, and then I thought I was going to get arrested for that one.

Speaker 2: 2:36:41

but whatever, I mean people do need to get smacked. They do. That's the bottom line.

Speaker 1: 2:36:47

Well, dude, thank you so much. Dude, I appreciate it. Yeah, I didn't even tell you about the bread. Please talk about it. I love this stuff, so you're an only sourdough guy.

Speaker 2: 2:36:55

Yes.

Speaker 1: 2:37:08

This is our rpg shameless plug. Please, um, roasted garlic from the garden, rosemary. Not from the garden yet, but it will be here soon. We just ran out of our fresh stuff so we have to pick some more. But uh, parmesan. So rosemary garlic, parmesan is incredible loaf, the girls made especially just for you, thank you very much and uh yeah, so we give every guest a fresh loaf of sourdough. Hopefully you like it enjoy it.

Speaker 2: 2:37:24

So I'm going. So I've been going to another place over there to get it, because my favorite thing to do in the morning is I wake up, I'll have some water and then take a walk, come back, have my coffee and I usually did a slice of sourdough. Either I put a little butter or a little jam on it with my coffee my favorite thing and then I do my cold plunge right.

Speaker 1: 2:37:41

You'll have to check out. I can't wait, we have some crazy flavors Okay, really good flavors that we constantly drop. A lot of them are seasonal. We're about to drop an apricot gouda Really Walnut one. That one's phenomenal.

Speaker 2: 2:37:56

How do I order this once? I you know, sour Bee, we got you Yep, everything's on there, that QR code, just come here and pick it up.

Speaker 1: 2:38:01

Yeah, either here or I have a delivery driver, aka my daughter yeah, so we force her. You know how it is being a teenager. I want to drive everywhere and I'm like you're going to regret that I'm really close to here. Oh, okay, perfect. I just up Cloverdale right by LaGrange. We have sourdough Saturdays too. You get to come right by and pick up Porsche pickup.

Speaker 2: 2:38:20

I love it Cool.

Speaker 1: 2:38:21

Well, dude, thank you, Thank you man. Again, I appreciate the conversation. It was awesome.

Speaker 2: 2:38:25

Perfect, fucking A Dude. That was cool, man. Did you want to ask anything about cameras? No,