#69 - Stabbings, Cartels, & Trophy Hunts: The Wildest Guide You’ve Never Heard Of w/Hagan Ekker

From the remote plains of South Central Utah to the cartel-controlled territories of Mexico, Hagan's journey as a hunting guide reads like an adventure novel that couldn't possibly be true, except every word of it is. Growing up in a town of barely 120 people shaped his self-reliance in ways that modern suburban life simply cannot replicate. When the orthodontist arrives in a mobile bus once a month and the nearest gas station is 20 miles away, you learn to plan ahead and make do.

The contrast between Hagan's childhood freedom and today's digitally tethered youth is stark. He recalls riding four-wheelers with guns as a kid, fishing miles from home without supervision, and the resistance he felt when finally forced to get a cell phone, it meant his parents could actually track him down. These formative experiences built character and capabilities that he sees lacking in many young people entering the workforce today. "They don't know how to run a dang shovel," he laments, noting how many can't retain instructions from one day to the next.

His journey from college wrestling scholarship to oil field work to becoming a respected hunting guide reveals a man constantly adapting to challenge and opportunity. The stories from his guiding career range from hilarious to harrowing, clients obsessing over an eighth-inch difference in antler measurement, brothers stabbing each other while field dressing an elk, and narrowly avoiding cartel violence in Mexico. Each tale offers a glimpse into the beautiful, brutal reality of a life lived close to nature and far from comfort.

Perhaps most compelling is Hagan's evolution as a hunter himself. While once focused on trophy animals and personal achievements, he now finds the greatest satisfaction in creating experiences for others, watching a child's face light up with their first successful hunt or seeing a veteran overcome with emotion after harvesting an elk. In a world increasingly disconnected from natural processes and authentic experiences, his story reminds us what we stand to lose if we forget the lessons only wilderness can teach.

Chapters

• 0:00 Growing Up in Rural South Central Utah
• 14:47 Freedom of Childhood vs Today's Digital World
• 31:40 College Wrestling and Oil Field Days
• 51:42 Breaking Into the Guiding Business
• 1:16:38 Nightmare Clients and Hunting Drama
• 1:42:07 Wild Adventures in Mexico
• 2:09:34 Trophy Hunting and Conservation Realities
• 2:26:25 Why We Hunt: Creating Meaningful Experiences

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

well, dude, it's been a long time coming. Yeah, hagan, welcome to the show. Appreciate it. We've, uh, we've known each other for quite a while I got thinking about that.

Speaker 2: 0:19

I I mean how long we've been friends. I mean long damn time, I don't know yeah, done some shit together.

Speaker 1: 0:24

Yeah, we've had.

Speaker 2: 0:25

You have some of the wildest off the wall stories and adventures of anybody that I have I'm telling you, man, the wildest things will happen to you, I mean, and like you can't even make half of it up, you know that's and that's where, like I I think I've told a couple of your stories on here without name dropping you, but I tell people stories or like things, like your adventures.

Speaker 1: 0:49

Sometimes there's no way and I'm like it's so easy to think that there's no way, but then I'll meet somebody that was with you or you'll like verify chats.

Speaker 2: 0:58

You know.

Speaker 1: 0:58

Yeah, or I'm with you, one of those stories like just happens and it's the most hilarious shit, because, like, if I didn't know you personally, like this dude's full of shit. But then I'll meet some guy like a year later, like you know, hey, I was with him during this time and I'm like, and it happens so much, but well, I guess, dude, let's just uh, we'll just jump into it. Where the hell are you from?

Speaker 2: 1:20

give me a little introduction about yourself I grew, grew up in South Central Utah, real rural area, you know graduated high school with like 20-something kids, oh God.

Speaker 2: 1:28

You know, just small, small area, I mean the town I grew up in. 100, 120 people maybe you know, live 20 miles from a gas station. You know it's real similar where I live now. You know out in the middle of nowhere and a ways out of town. And you know out in the middle of nowhere and a ways out of town and you know it helps you. I think grow up the way people need to grow up. You know what do you mean by that. You know being able to self-rely on stuff. I mean you're not, you know, terribly close to a Walmart. I mean we was an hour plus from a Walmart, god. So I mean you learn to plan ahead and you know and stuff like that. And growing up with small town people everyone knows people and you got the help and whatever too the community aspect, I guess, of it.

Speaker 1: 2:12

It will definitely change your. I mean, I get what you're saying. I didn't grow up in that small. I grew up in a small town on the Canadian border. But I mean, dude, I had to go to Canada for my braces. Oh yeah, it was like the closest orthodontist.

Speaker 2: 2:22

Yeah, we had the orthodontist people. They had like a mobile bus that would drive like an hour and a half, you know, and then pull up to like the high school and fix everyone's grill and you know it was like. It was literally like an RV. Really, yeah, the brace caboose or whatever that would like come once a month or however often they did it, you know, yeah, and they'd go in the trailer out back and get your teeth fixed.

Speaker 1: 2:45

that's kind of how small it was. That small huh where what's?

Speaker 2: 2:48

how? Where is this, uh? So I mean it's hard to no one knows the towns you know. So it's wayne, county utah, south central capra reef national park area. Um grew up in teesdale and you know loa, hanksville area and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 3:02

So just running a muck out there.

Speaker 2: 3:04

Oh yeah, I mean when I was a kid, I mean we'd hop on the four-wheeler and me and a buddy would get on a four-wheeler with guns and drive right from the house and just start shooting stuff. I mean, within five miles of the house there wasn't a jackrabbit until I got out of high school and running fishing and stuff like that. I mean nowadays you look at kids. Their parents would die if they knew what you know we're doing. You're not doing nothing crazy, but we drive 20 miles into the hills to go fishing at donkey or something you know. I mean isn't it?

Speaker 1: 3:34

it's wild to think back at it now, and I was talking to my mom a while back and, like us as kids, we would plan everything all week in high school, or you know, during school, and all the buddies, and we'd have this whole plan and then friday everyone would go home, then their parents would bring them to the house, we'd get my dad's boat extra tank of gas and I mean we're on the st lawrence river, which is a big river. Yeah, we would just find an island with nobody on it and no cell phones. Yeah, no clue where we were, not even like what direction we headed in. And I look, I was talking about my mom. I'm like mom, like there's no, I have a problem. My kid's like walking to the park around the corner now and she's like I had no idea where you and your brother were 90% of the time. Oh, definitely.

Speaker 2: 4:16

I mean, I resented getting a cell phone.

Speaker 2: 4:18

I didn't get a cell phone until I, or whatever you know and uh sorry, I was like I thought that was coming from her computer turn it off and uh you know, because then I was kind of responsible for where I was yeah, I had to tell mom what I was doing, you know, and if not, I could just make plans on the fly, you know, you'd ride, ride a different school bus home from school and go to a friend's house, you know, and then, like yo, I need a ride home or whatever, you know and I, and I did that, so I remember I you can't even do that nowadays. Like them. Kids at school can't-.

Speaker 1: 4:47

I broke down a pellet gun and put it in my backpack on a Friday because I was going to my buddy's house for the weekend. I think I swear to God. I remember stuffing a sleeping bag. I brought an extra bag to school, broke down my BB gun in two pieces, stuffed that in my bag, went to school and then rode the bus to his house for the weekend. Oh yeah, that was like normal.

Speaker 2: 5:10

I remember we was building like gun cabinets in Woodshop. Yeah Well, like we brought guns to school to like measure them and make sure they was going to fit in our project. You know Not anymore. You know bad as an eye. I mean go to prison immediately for that.

Speaker 1: 5:23

now, it's sad because I just saw a meme or whatever it said we were the last generation to live and know what it was like without social media and it was showing like all of like these 2003, 2004, like that era where my you know, my graduating class time, and it was just like everybody's in the hallway just laughing and joking and know it was all these like yearbook pictures. And then now you look at it I mean there's fucking. You see these little kids like eight years old at a bus stop sitting there, scrolling in the morning.

Speaker 2: 5:54

I feel so bad for the kids nowadays. You know, I mean, what they got to go through and you know how rough social media can be on them and you know things like that, I mean, and stuck to your ipads and your phones, I mean that doesn't, doesn't build no one. You know sure there's an aspect for it you're going to be a nerd and do some crazy computer stuff. You know that's where how many jobs are coming with that, you know for sure man.

Speaker 2: 6:16

That doesn't put any weight to what kind of person they are. You know nothing we're hiring kids.

Speaker 2: 6:22

You know, I do a lot of construction in the summers and we hire young guys that come work. They don't know nothing. I was gonna say how's that? I mean they don't know how to run a dang shovel, you know. Or just like nothing you know. I mean it skips clearing over their head, you know, and and then they don't retain anything. Either you teach them one day how you're laying pipe or forming concrete or whatever you're doing, and the next day they come to work they don't know, they don't remember from the day before you know. And uh, so how do you? They always want paid 25 bucks an hour or whatever you know, and they, they don't know nothing and they don't try to learn anything.

Speaker 1: 6:56

You know, there's no pride in what they're doing that's gonna be tough, it's gonna be interesting in the next few years. I mean, I preach it all the time. I would not go military, I'd go trade school blue collar, lineman, electrician, utility, anything along those lines. But I have buddies and hearing from you and other guys that have construction companies. They all say the same thing it's either the kids have no clue, which is, I guess, fine in a way way especially if you're just going to get in an entry level and you're digging ditches for your your first summer, whatever right, but how they're? They're like these kids just won't show up, they just won't come back.

Speaker 2: 7:33

Yeah, oh yeah, no, you can run kids off, you know, in a day or two, you know hard work. I mean, like I tell a lot of guys too, like from the guys I learned from you know yelling at you all day like you were trash, you were nothing, you know. They did that to these kids nowadays. They wouldn't make it to lunch half the time. Oh, I bet you know, and like that's how you learn stuff, you know like I tell guys now, because I'm not that old, you know, and sometimes I'll have guys working under me or whatever that are obviously older and things like that.

Speaker 2: 7:59

And where did you learn how to? You know concrete? Whatever I tell them, I tell them I learned from assholes, you know. You didn't forget what you learned. You know from grandpa, from my uncles, stuff like that you know, and people you didn't forget what you was trying to learn. You know because you're terrified.

Speaker 2: 8:15

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, you know you couldn't. It wasn't like learning, you're just pain retained. Yeah, exactly, you know you're paid to show up and you know you'll figure it out one way or the other. So, yeah, you know it's hard, hard getting kids to work and that's thing everyone's like. Oh, there ain't no jobs. You know we're paying. I mean, the job I'm working right now is a big federal road project, so it's federal wages. Yeah, I mean, it's ridiculous money, you know by the hour. And, uh, these kids show up and they just they ain't even even worth that, can't even show up on time, taking days off all the time, which I get too. But when you're not worth your time when you're there, why are you taking time off to do whatever?

Speaker 1: 8:54

Yeah, I don't know, I think for the small group of fathers out there, for these dads that are raising their sons right, for these dads that are raising their sons right, it is going to be such a walk in the park for them to just be able to own anything that they do with just the the slightest bit of work ethic. Because this, this generation I tell the girls all the time like you girls are so far ahead because you know stress, you know how to work under a shitty environment, working for your father one, you work for me, you You're good, yeah, and then just being able to get the job done, listen, take direction, take an ass chewing and move on from it. There's this whole generation. I mean, like you're saying is just so like, oh my God, I'm done, I'd rather go be a barista and do that and work in an AC.

Speaker 1: 9:46

But if you're teaching your son and these guys like I have a buddy of mine and he's a plumber and bro, he pulled his kid out years ago Like that kid's his, his schooling is work in the family and it's their family business. So he's next in line to take it over. Bro, that kid is a is a man and he's 17 and the kid is like bought his own truck last year at 16, saved up like a brand new Tacoma and like it's like that. That kid is light years ahead of 90% of his peers and he's never even he hasn't set foot in a public school in oh for sure Years.

Speaker 2: 10:17

Yeah, I mean you guys doing the big homeschooling thing and stuff like that. I mean, if I ever had kids and stuff, there's no way you could send them in there. You know, and try to expect something good to come out of that.

Speaker 2: 10:28

You know, maybe in like a small rural area where I grew up, stuff you know you know you might, you might get a little better, but I couldn't imagine one of these bigger towns. You know the P, just the people you run into out in public. Then people are teaching your kids something. You know, man, it's hard out there. It's hard out there, man.

Speaker 1: 10:48

It's an interesting world. So what was high school like for you? What were you into then? You're a big wrestler, right?

Speaker 2: 10:54

Yeah, yeah. I wrestled all through high school my whole life, Got a full-ride scholarship. Went out to Iowa wrestling in college how was that? It was different. What was it like going from that rural town to a college? You know, growing up in a small, small community and then going to a you know a giant college, you know out of state especially. You know, growing up, you know small utah, people don't swear in public. You know they don't. You know it's so different. Like first day at school, like my professor was up there swearing and stuff. Like like I don't it, don me, you know. But it kind of perks your ears up, like you just said. You know you said shit in class, like you know you don't hear that nowhere.

Speaker 2: 11:34

you know from where I'm from, you know, and so that's a big, you know learning curve going to that, you know, going straight to partying and stuff like that of a big school type of deal and because you grew up lds and yeah, grew up lds you know I mean didn't really stick with it all that hard. You know and you know gets bad rap on on some of that stuff. You know growing up mormon and you know whatnot, but you know a lot of the. You break it down any religion you break it down to. You know the basic moral values and stuff. I mean who can argue against that? You know you get into the, the cult aspects of things. You know and kind of the weird nuance deals that are.

Speaker 1: 12:12

You know people make fun of or whatever yeah, you know, I mean that's where it's interesting. For sure, I mean they all are, if you sit and break them all, like you know oh, they all are and they all have problems.

Speaker 2: 12:21

And that's the thing. You get too big and you know the organized religion stuff. You get into a big church, the catholics christian church. You know, look at all the. You get into the. You know the priest with the kids and all that crazy I mean it's man. You know, whenever man's involved.

Speaker 1: 12:35

Exactly, you know, that's where I have. I always have a problem with people like um, because obviously I'm christian and I. When I hear people like, oh, the church, oh, fuck the church and I, I, the church burn me, it's like I'm, I'm, I'm not really or, you know, I don't believe in jesus christ anymore. It's like he didn't burn you. The church burns you, which is created by man yeah you know, and so it's like the more man has his hand in anything, the more corrupt, the more evil, the dirtier it gets everything.

Speaker 2: 13:03

Yeah, especially, yeah, especially, you get money involved. I mean, you get the money involved. That's one of my biggest things against you know the Mormon side of things. I mean how much money them guys have tied up and stuff and kind of some of the shady aspects. You dig into some of that, you know, and they're still out there getting money from you know the members or whatever you know you're paying your tithing and stuff like that. It's like you guys are worth billions and billions of dollars. Times are tough. Tell everyone you're good for a bit, you know Right.

Speaker 1: 13:31

But it said, they'll send somebody to your house. Oh yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2: 13:34

Oh yeah, yeah, they have different programs and different ways that they you know where the money you know supposedly goes and stuff like that. And it's like man, it's hard out here right now. You know, not everyone has the money to put aside, you know, and. But if you want to be an upstanding, you know member, whatever you know, they know who's not paying and who's paying and who's participating that's where I always.

Speaker 1: 13:56

It's that to me in the lds that's where the cult side for me is very like. Because you look at the lds church, I mean look at the millions of acres that they own, these ranches and properties, and across everywhere I mean giant ranches. Why, you're right. And then I was staying at a buddy's house once down in salt lake and he was at work and I just got out of the shower and he's someone pounding the door. Pounding the door. I'm like fuck. It's like, throw on my clothes real quick, run upstairs, answer the door. These two little pounding on the door. I'm like fuck. He's like, throw on my clothes real quick, run upstairs, answer the door. These two little kids are standing there and I'm like what's up? And they're like we're here to collect. And I'm like collect what. They're like we're the, or whatever. There was a term that they use, I don't remember what it something.

Speaker 1: 14:40

He's like oh god, he's fast offerings or something they just left the church so I guess they didn't weren't off the roster yet. But he's like, yeah, if you don't tithe or pay during a certain time, they send the kids in the community to your home. Oh yeah, to collect. I was like you. That doesn't like strike a, like a, like a bulb go off in your head. Like if I, if I had my church coming to my house like, hey, we need our dues. Like I'd be like get the fuck right off.

Speaker 2: 15:07

Like absolutely not. Oh yeah, I did it as a kid. It's like a program they. It's like a fast offering thing really. You know, basically the gist of it is um, I can't remember it's like one week of the month, like on sunday, that everyone fasts and basically the concept is you basically skip a meal during the day you know to fast and then, whatever you would have spent on that meal, you're going to donate it and the church is going to use it towards genius you know a food bank program or you know some donation type thing, genius, and I get it.

Speaker 2: 15:38

you know, and like as a kid, so like that's the thing, yeah, they do send the. You know the young boys like 12, 13, 14 years. Usually you have a partner and you go out there's two of them. You go out to someone's house and where I live, man, we had to borrow the truck and drive 10 miles out of town find an old guy down the road that was still on the records as a member and go knock on the door and if they were there they'd give you money and fill out the form and you take it back and, uh, you know, in a way the concept's right. You know you're trying to help out people but, like you said too, the human variable and all that, you know where does that money actually go?

Speaker 2: 16:15

and you know where do you see it hitting the ground? And you know things like that. You know it's interesting for sure. Oh yeah, did you do a mission or no? No, no, I didn't, you know.

Speaker 2: 16:24

And and I kind of started pulling away from the church, like in high school, you can go to seminary, which is basically a church class in the middle of school. Well, I got in a couple years into high school and you know it was good. You know, like I said, the moral value, the concepts of it and stuff you know. Know being a good person and all that and kind of having you know a moral path or whatever. You know. Sure you know that's great.

Speaker 2: 16:50

Then I started realizing, like the, the class, you don't get a credit for it, you know. So you're, it's just a class, it's just a class. There's no credit. There's no, you know, not an elective credit. You know nothing like that doesn't go towards anything. And then I started looking at if I was taking these college classes while I was in high school. I damn near get out of college with a or get out of high school with an associate's degree, but you can't really do that if you're burning an hour on on your seminary, you know, and so so I made the decision for myself, like, if I'm going to do it, you know I still was going to church at the time a bit, and why am I kind of not using that hour to better my education type?

Speaker 1: 17:29

of deal and try to get ahead.

Speaker 2: 17:31

You know you can get credit hours through the college for dirt cheap while you're in high school, and it counts two ways. Why wouldn't you be as efficient?

Speaker 1: 17:38

as you can, yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:40

So that's I kind of pulled away from there, just from that standpoint. You know nothing against the church really. You know, just trying to make the most use of my time I got to be at school. I might as well take the classes.

Speaker 1: 17:51

I mean for a kid to be thinking like, processing, like that. It's pretty. I'd say, mature I would think Thing to do? You know most kids would be like, yeah, screw it, I'm going to burn this hour every day and then just sit here and screw off oh, yeah, yeah, exactly knock out college credits, yeah might as well, while you're there you

Speaker 2: 18:07

know and I I mean honestly, I don't really have much against the missions. Yeah, you know, I think it's it's. It builds some good dudes. You know, put some guys out there. You know you're knocking doors, trying to. You're basically trying to sell a religion to someone you know and you see some of these guys come back from it and and they're great business guys, they can talk to anyone. I recommend it Really. If that's where you're at, I don't see much wrong with it. It is kind of a bit of a financial deal for your kid or whatever to go on a mission.

Speaker 1: 18:35

The church doesn't pay for it.

Speaker 2: 18:36

Right your family has to they can. They'll help you if you need it or whatever type of deal.

Speaker 1: 18:50

But most of the most time it's it's the families, you know, putting on the on the cost of that. I met these two kids on around a mission when we were in kentucky last year. We're in the middle of nowhere to pull over this gas station and had these two mormon kids come up and they're, they're asking about, you know, the truck and everything. And then these two hillbillies roll up and they're just wasted and it this like in the middle of the afternoon they do like this burnout and they peel away.

Speaker 1: 19:08

These two Mormon kids are just sitting there like this shaking their heads and I'm like where are y'all from? They're like we're from Utah. I'm like and you're here in Kentucky. I was like how's that? They're like it is the wildest shit we've ever dealt with our life. We're like every door, we don't know if we're gonna get shot, raped, kidnapped. They're like it is fascinating. These are just two young kids, I mean imagine coming from like middle of nowhere utah, ogden, utah was like the worst you got to worry about some pilled out housewife or something, and now you're in the middle of.

Speaker 2: 19:41

That's the thing I mean some of them guys are not going to get any culture and the only culture they got was on their mission. You know they're not out there learning the ways of the world you know so.

Speaker 2: 19:50

I think it's I get your point there I mean Pretty good concept for guys, you know. I mean speaking of running into the missionaries. I was in Mexico, shit, whole town of Mexico, like hunting, and I'd go into like a little internet cafe, you know, and print off some paperwork for permits or whatever. And uh, I go in there and I see him, like four of them in the back using the computer, you know, in the white shirts and stuff, and I walked up and I'm like how's it going, elders? And I scared the hell out of them and the one kid ended up like hugging me.

Speaker 2: 20:16

He hadn't heard anyone speak English in like a year and a half, you know, and they were rough area that they had to go to, oh for sure, and I sat there messing with them and talking with them for a bit and ended up buying them lunch and whatnot and I let them all use my phone to call their mom and stuff, and you're not really supposed to do that when you're out there Nowadays. I guess they didn't use Facebook and stuff trying to spread the word and there's a lot more. You know technology and communication that they're using a lot more. It used to be like you wrote letters and that was like all and you got to call your mom on like christmas and mother's day type of deal, what okay, that, just yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:59

that, see, that to me is is very strange because it's like that. It's creating that separation, you know, because and I have a buddy that same guy that was staying at his house his daughter. They left the church but his daughter went on a mission and she came back and like pretty much exiled them all because they had left the church. Oh yeah, and she was deep into it and he was like this is why we left. And he was like devastated because it would be like one of my daughters you know, it was his little hunting buddy. I mean that was like his favorite.

Speaker 2: 21:27

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:27

And she came back and was like until you guys come back to church, I can't have a relationship with you. And it crashed.

Speaker 2: 21:31

That's so wild. And see, that's the thing that like goes kind of contradicts right against a lot of church. You know standards type of thing, you know you're not supposed to really judge that and stuff like that. You know, I mean, how many rules or yeah, concepts are you breaking there?

Speaker 1: 21:45

yeah, but he was. He was pretty bummed. Actually still is. I don't know if I should actually see if he's.

Speaker 2: 21:50

It's been a few years and he last I talked, I've seen some families get tore up by kids not wanting to go on a mission, or they get out there and they come home early, you know, and they're kind of like almost shunned. They didn't make it because they go two years. It's a long time 18, 19 years old going out for two years and it's like a random process of where they send you. You know, not randomly, you know, they feel the need to where you're, where you go and stuff you know and you can put if you're willing to learn a language or you know, whatever.

Speaker 2: 22:18

And so some guys, man, they get the short end of the shaft and go to, you know, mozambique or you know something like that. And then other guys get to go to jamaica and stuff like that I mean some some of them get there for that full two years.

Speaker 1: 22:32

Or do you rotate?

Speaker 2: 22:33

no, you're wherever you're at for two years, you know it might be like a big area that you mojitate around. You know, like one of my cousins she went to like little rock arkansas. My, that's pulled the bad end of the stick there, you know, went to the south end of the state there and just pulled a bad one, you know. And then some people go to pretty cool places, you know.

Speaker 1: 22:54

I can see that. Imagine just going to like Nantucket. You're door-knocking millionaires.

Speaker 2: 23:01

We had a dude like there in school. He went to like Mesa, arizona, in like seven-hour drive. We're like dude, we just come down and see you.

Speaker 1: 23:08

I mean.

Speaker 2: 23:09

So it kind of all depends on. I think there's some tests of like how smart you are and stuff like that I mean if you're willing to learn a language. A lot of them try to go speak, and so that's I can't say I'm totally against. All that, like some of the life skills you're going to learn, is as good as you'll ever gain you know and some of the language stuff and you know the culture and being able to talk to people.

Speaker 2: 23:32

That's one of the craziest things these kids nowadays. They don't know how to talk to someone random. You know, checking out at the grocery store and getting a little small talk with someone you know they can't do it, you know, and so you know they can't do it, you know. And so you know there's some good and the bad to it.

Speaker 1: 23:46

Oh, that's everything, Kind of like everything. Yeah, that's everything. Yeah, so college you finished up? Did you finish up college or what? No, I went for a bit.

Speaker 2: 23:58

College wrestling's. I mean, it's a hell of a sport, you know it is. The hard part for me was my weight cutting, so I signed to go in at 197. When I moved to college I weighed 255.

Speaker 1: 24:08

Good.

Speaker 2: 24:08

God. And so I was cutting weight real hard, real hard. So in high school the weight class is like 195. There's a 220, and then there's heavyweight 285. So I weighed about 220, 225. And through high school I wrestled a lot of heavyweight, a lot of 220 or whatever. Well, in in college it's 197, 285. So there's no, there's nothing there in the middle to hit. Okay, and when I was having kind of a tough time getting weight and stuff, you know my coaches and you know they do it all really well. Now it's real smart how they, you know, can cut weight a lot safer than it used to be. And well, kids were dying or what.

Speaker 1: 24:41

oh yeah, like I, because they're just so dehydrated and I mean it was. I remember kids like walking around, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:48

I went and give blood one day before I had to make weight, so I'd lose, you know, a liter of blood. To what? Three and a half pounds, or whatever.

Speaker 1: 24:54

That bad, huh?

Speaker 2: 24:55

You're trying to cut that much weight, oh yeah, yeah, I know, and I didn't have too much of a problem cutting weight in high school. It wasn't near as competitive.

Speaker 1: 25:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:08

But then when I got bigger you know there is that weight class in between there and yeah, when I was kind of getting out of it and after my first year, my first season, you know the coaches said there's a lot of guys that drop out, that you know cut and in shape is 215, 220.

Speaker 1: 25:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:24

And there's a lot of guys that are right there that can't get down to that one 97. And then at the same time can't quite compete at the two 85,. You know I actually almost did better with the big guys. You know you get some of them guys that are built like Coke machines.

Speaker 2: 25:38

You know, not really, but you get some big fat guy that's you know, skated through high school or whatever you know and you're a little quicker, a little more agile or whatever. I mean I did almost better with them. Yeah, with the big guys you know, and so it was a little tough there getting weight, you know, and I was planning on going back, but the first year come home for summer break or whatever, ended up getting an oil field job doing cement for Halliburton and, man, a hundred grand right out of the out of the gate.

Speaker 2: 26:05

You know, paying your ridiculous money Like I don't need no schooling man, you know I'll go right to the patch and you know, did that for a bit. And then was that like 2012 or whatever, and kind of a recession hit right there and jobs started falling off. Well, I could see the writing on the wall that everyone's getting laid off, you know, and my job was was probably safe for a while, but it was looking at hunting season. You know, it was like week before a deer hunt and stuff. I was like you know what?

Speaker 2: 26:30

I'll, I'll, I'll just dip out now, you know, and you guys are good on a layoff like through the holidays yeah but they're like that was a lot of guys on my crew. Well, everyone had a family and all that you know, and we was all we had to basically lose one more guy and then everyone was good through christmas and new years and, uh, dude, I'll go hunting like a volunteer's tribute. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm good, you know. I mean, you guys have fun here dave, september's right around the corner.

Speaker 1: 26:55

Yeah, it was like october.

Speaker 2: 26:56

I think you know some I had a couple deer hunt guys lined up and some buffalo hunts and stuff. I'm like you know I'll get out of here. You guys are good on your jobs for a while, you know, and then I think everyone was gone by mid-january. Just, you know that's the highs and the lows. That oil field stuff. It hits and it misses. You know it's good when it's good and it's bad when it's bad. Save it when you got it. Oh yeah, and some of them guys ride that out. You know they'll ride through the bottoms and wait for the tops to hit again and and that's a lifestyle you know it's a commitment in that world.

Speaker 1: 27:26

You, you got to know what you're getting yourself into for sure, oh yeah so that was.

Speaker 2: 27:29

You know I was a great job for, you know, right out of college no degree, no, nothing, you know. And going right to the oil patch, and you know I mean shit. A weekly check was almost three grand or something. You know at the time, and you know. Then then you work two weeks on, two weeks off, or you know I did a lot of two weeks on, one week off. Then you have all sorts of time in the world to run around. You know, hunting, fishing, that's a good gig, it's great. I mean, it's long hours. You know you're working two weeks straight, 14, 15 hours a day. You know, know it's work, you know.

Speaker 1: 28:02

But there's a lot of, a lot of positives to it too there's some fat paychecks in that yeah, in that world, oh yeah, yep, and take it while you can, you know so once you left there, hunting season started and you were got your, were you already guiding at this point, not?

Speaker 2: 28:16

really, um, you know, as far as officially guiding no, not really, but like even when I was younger, like in high school, or you a little bit after kind of get roped into going and helping a guy or whatever. Or you know going and spotting for people and stuff and that's. I think that's how most people kind of learn and kind of come up through it. You got to do a lot of it for free. Or you know, hoping you get a tip or you know something and still spending your time out there and getting to learn it you know I was lucky.

Speaker 2: 28:45

You know where I grew up in between the boulder mountain and like the henrys and stuff, I'm the best deer hunting in the world. You know is where I grew up, you know. So I'd have guys you know and probably smart on them. They could hire some young kid that's going to do it for a hundred bucks and a tank of gas or whatever. Go find them a deer or watch a deer for him and and uh, so kind of got into it. You know from that. You know just here and there, here and there, and then then finally you know you get kind of your name out there, whatever, and guys are calling you and paying you up front and you know paying you a week's wages and you're like okay, you know here's a gas card.

Speaker 2: 29:20

Go, you know, go, sit on a go sit on a deer for a week, you know, or something like that. Why wouldn't you? You know?

Speaker 1: 29:28

I mean, especially being young too, I mean, and the the amount of money that's that these guys will just pay for somebody to go find, oh yeah, sit on, or just, oh yeah, we need you in this unit. Just go turn something up oh, yeah, yeah, run cameras.

Speaker 2: 29:40

We just want you to run cameras and check cameras and send the pictures back now?

Speaker 1: 29:44

were you getting in with big outfitters at this point, or were you doing everything kind of slowly? Not really then.

Speaker 2: 29:47

No, I'd, I'd I'd do a couple here and there, you know I'd. You know I'd run into someone like the big outfitters full-time guides, you know. I'd run into them out on the mountain, be friends with them, type of deal. They'd have me come help pack out a buffalo, you know, or be a spotter for them, type of deal. You know I had one of the first ones I ever did. I was watching some deer by the road and a guy pulled up you know it was during hunting season, whatever and he's like we're going to kill that deer up there, you know. Looked at him like oh shit. And he's like here's a radio, let us know if he gets up. Yeah, I went up there and helped him pack it out and the guy's like here's 500 bucks, what Hell yeah, that's a good day.

Speaker 2: 30:31

you know, sold, yeah. When's the next one? Yeah, exactly yeah. And you know some of the big money that is into that stuff. You know I didn't. Luckily I didn't really hit it too hard too early, you know, but them Henry Mountain deer tags were 150 grand. Then you know that's just crazy talk, you know. And now, what I know now and where things have went, I mean the money that gets thrown around and some of that stuff, you know, is pretty crazy.

Speaker 1: 30:54

The amount of money that somebody's willing to spend to kill a big animal is oh, even though you know you've yeah been around it, so much it's it's always shocking to me.

Speaker 2: 31:04

It's like oh yeah, my god, some of these sheep tag prices just getting out of hand. You know, at that point some of that's just dick measuring you know sure you know, I I do get the concept too. I mean, a lot of that goes, that's a conservation thing, the money goes to charity, whatever, and then it's a tax write-off for some of these guys.

Speaker 1: 31:20

You know, but I get the business side of it, yeah no, I, I, yeah, I get all of it.

Speaker 2: 31:25

Yeah, you know, but I've I've had a few clients over the years that I've run into, you know, and they want to start spending money on some serious deer hunts. You know, and like I had a guy several years ago, you know he's ready to buy, you know, colorado gov deer tag. He'll go 250, 000 on it. I told him I was like man for 250, let's go buy like four or five tags and you can kill four or five deer, you know, and what would you rather do? And that's what we end up doing and you know, average over 200 on like five deer across like five states, really, you know, and what, like you might have killed the same deer on that colorado tag or whatever, and then you might have been another 20, 30, 40 grand on trespass fees or hiring a guide over there type of deal, or you know, I'd rather go go stack five 200 inchers than for sure one. That's going to cost you the same and maybe it's 210 or you know 220.

Speaker 1: 32:14

Whatever, I'm cool the 200 inch buck yeah oh yeah, I love them I could be mad about that, yeah exactly you know.

Speaker 2: 32:20

So that's kind of been my favorite thing the last six, eight, six, eight years is getting these guys that kind of understand. You know you get the guys that always just want to blow money and kind of show off or whatever and that's fun, that's great tips are great or whatever you know fun time, but you get these guys that can kind of smartly spend the money like that.

Speaker 2: 32:40

You know, sheep tags or whatever, like I had a guy several years ago. You know he wanted to, wanted a rocky, willing to spend 150 000 utah. Tags are going more than that type of deal like dude. Let's look at north dakota. You know north dakota tag time before I got on the radar was like 80 grand really, yeah, yeah. And so you know, look at spending that money a little smarter and just as good, or if not better, sheep, you know.

Speaker 2: 33:06

That's on the map no, that's blown up the last few years. Oh yeah, there isn't a Rocky tag under 150 anymore. You know even the Wyoming tags. It used to be 80, 90, 100,000. They're pushing two. You know they just spent what? 750 on Colorado's and New Mexico's. I think they both were 750,000. And new mexico's, I think they both were 750, 000.

Speaker 1: 33:29

But they know there's a you know 200 inch sheep in there. That is insane to me. Yeah, that isn't. I mean I get like like you, I get it. If I I don't want to say if I had the money I would just be throwing that on that, but it's like god, do you imagine like the good you can? I'm sure they're probably doing good on the side.

Speaker 2: 33:42

We don't see about I know they're.

Speaker 1: 33:44

We know a lot of these guys and they're. They're really good dudes. But it's like I look at a guy drop a million dollars on a sheep tank, I was like God, how many kids could we have fed with that? Or how many, how many you know?

Speaker 2: 33:53

like that's that's how our any of it, yeah, 100, but it's just like man, like my biggest thing with is, like you know, 750 000 we can go kill. You can go kill 10 sheep in mexico with me for 750 000. I mean, just as you know, maybe not just as good a sheep or whatever. You know, if you're chasing a rocky, chasing your slam you know type of deal, but I'm all about you know a lot of them over you know about the volume.

Speaker 1: 34:23

Yeah, I mean, who would rather? It's just more fun. I mean, why would I want to spend that much money for one one pull, yeah, of a trigger or whatever, rather than like, dude, let's just, we're gonna have a next two seasons. Oh yeah, you want to hunt sheep out of a helicopter, like let's, let's drop it on that, you know.

Speaker 2: 34:40

I mean no, there's whatever you want to do, but I don't. But what's always blown my mind is how much money do you have to make to spend that on something? If you're dropping a mil on a sheep, because that Colorado tag is $750, but then the trespass fee on that place where they're killing the sheep is $200,000, $300,000 just to get on there, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:05

That dues a million dollars into a sheep yeah at least that's not including outfit. Oh yeah, Guys. Well, I mean, that was kind of set up. It's kind of all rolled into it, you know Okay.

Speaker 2: 35:14

And now you know when you get to that level. And then you know them sheep, or even some of the big deer and stuff, year to year to year. You know what you're hunting, you know what you're getting type of deal. You know it's kind of a said and done thing. You know that's why the, the, the tags are that expensive. Like, while they was killing the big sheep, the biggest sheep last year, there were two sheep that's going to be bigger than him the next year. You know. So that's why it's that much more money. Now you know which. It's just. Hey, that's crazy. I mean you, I mean I get it.

Speaker 2: 35:46

I'm not hating man no.

Speaker 1: 35:47

But you're right though. I mean, it's not like you're like getting a loan or buying a house and you're like I'm about to buy this million-dollar house, I'm making half a million a year.

Speaker 2: 35:53

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:54

These dudes are dropping that right there. I mean, they're paid up.

Speaker 2: 36:05

Oh if, like the Salt Lake Expo, took a firm, I'd be buying some stuff, you know, if you'd take payments on some things, you know.

Speaker 1: 36:09

You guys got low percentage financing. You know 30 months yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:12

Yeah, luckily they don't get too big on that, you know. Yeah for sure. When I was working for some bigger outfitters and stuff and had some clients like that, that was kind of one of my favorite things to do is run around to them auctions and buy the tags for the guys you know bidding on feel big like a big player the first time I did it.

Speaker 2: 36:29

I bought a sheep tag for new mexico for a guy and uh, talking to him on the phone, you know he's like it'll probably go three, you know, three to 350 or whatever. And uh, you know, buy it, sounds good. I'm sitting there in the auction raising your hand for 350 grand when I got like 86 bucks in the bank, you know it's a little nerve wracking, you know. And I raised it like 350 and it kept going. I'm like, oh shit. So I'm like trying to call him he's not answering, you know and it stalls out like 370. I was like, if you're going to spend 350, you can spend 370. So I bought it and ended up getting it at that, gonna spend 350 and spend 370. So I bought it and end up getting it at that. And I got a hold of him. He's like, oh cool, not a big deal, you know, not a big day at all.

Speaker 2: 37:09

And so when he went over here sweating oh yeah, like all that, because I was like filling out the form for like his name and you know address where to send, you know, because you don't pay for it right there, you know they'll send a bill later and whatever and sitting there writing his information, I'm looking at my phone, double triple checking and you know it's a little little nerve-wracking, you know.

Speaker 1: 37:27

But is that the most you've ever spent on a tag for somebody?

Speaker 2: 37:31

a single tag. Yeah, I've done 300 a couple times for some sheep and stuff.

Speaker 2: 37:35

Yeah, um, one night I went to a banquet and and spent like 1.4 on like four or five different tags you know, a couple sheep tags, couple deer tags and stuff just for one person or just no, it's a couple different guys yeah, you know, a lot of times you know when you get to that point there, you know there's four or five guys that'll go to this number on this tag and you know you don't even talk to them beforehand, they're just kind of confirmed, that's what they'll do and you see what the hunt will go for. And if you're sitting there and even some guys I mean you know they'll buy a hunt and then find a guy you know they'll pay for a tag and they kind of know a guy that's willing to spend that kind of money and then call him after. Really, oh yeah, that's ballsy.

Speaker 1: 38:14

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:15

Yeah, and you know a lot of the times you know you're not on the hook for paying for it right there. Paying for it right there a lot of 30 days or whatever you know so if you have that, clientele and that base, yeah, you're gonna find. You know you ain't no dropping no 200 grand on you send out a couple texts yeah yeah, you know, I mean, so they've got them in the back pocket.

Speaker 2: 38:34

Yeah, who they're calling, who they got in mind, or whatever you know. But yeah, I went to like a smaller bank when they had a bunch of tags and bought every single one of them. You know, and first everyone's all excited. You're buying something, you know, you're sitting on the auction table and someone's excited when you buy all of them, then you're an ass, you know you got yeah, yeah you gotta leave and there's like some 40 year old blonde ladies trying to watch you as you go, you know, wondering where you're staying and stuff.

Speaker 2: 38:58

Come on down. Yeah, I'm actually staying right here. Yeah, no, I'm sleeping in the truck because that wasn't my money. I spent all of it on hunting. You know I'm trying to save. You know, I didn't get the room at the motel six, so they don't need to know that. No, no, no, no and I might have never told them, you know, but I didn't really hear from them much later.

Speaker 1: 39:21

Yeah, yeah, oh, you're the guide. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I'll actually take the guys, yeah, that money.

Speaker 2: 39:29

Yeah, no, I had to put the banquet ticket like a hundred dollars for this dinner to get in. I had to put that on a credit card, you know? Yeah, you know, but that's.

Speaker 2: 39:39

That's a whole different world. You know that at that point. You know, and then that you know, same thing. You get into the drama on that shit is just like what? Uh, you know they're competing for them tags and stuff I mean the bidding wars and stuff, you know. And then just the shit talking that comes with that. You know the. If you're hunting a specific deer or something like that, without fail, you know you kill something that someone knew about and they named that deer pretty boy or whatever. And you get him killed. You know, and the fish cops knocking on your door saying you poached him on one side of the mountain with a gun or whatever. And no, no, no, I got video.

Speaker 1: 40:15

We shot him with a bow on that side, or you know it's wild the stories that come. I mean because you know I've been around it enough. But it's like you see somebody kill a giant and then it's just like the group chats oh, it's poached and thermaled and shot it two days before opening. It's just like nowadays. You, I mean, if you're going after one of these named bucks, you know, like one of these yard bucks, like you have to have everything filmed because no matter how hundred percent legal every t-cross I dotted.

Speaker 1: 40:50

They're coming after you because of the, the social media warriors. Oh, hundred percent, even if you just get lucky and stumble across some giants laying somewhere and you get a shot at it. And you just get this pure luck.

Speaker 2: 40:59

Yeah, these dudes are still having all the stories that come out of the woodwork. Yeah, I mean, we had. We killed a big old elk several years ago and and beforehand I knew that it was going to be the shit. So we I called fishing game and had them stand by and had boone and crockett send a packet to where we could take a blood sample, you know.

Speaker 1: 41:17

And so we knew it wasn't going to be a farm bowl and stuff like that really oh yeah, I didn't even think of that that they're accusing you oh yeah, no, I, you know anymore, I crossed my t's, dot my eyes, you know, and special and stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 41:28

You know, and and, uh, you know. So we went ahead and you know, got that done or whatever, and not a problem. Well then, several years later, you know, got involved on another elk, same concept. The guys didn't really care to kind of do the due diligence of making sure everything's up and up. I mean everything's up and up or whatever, but, you know, backing it up with pictures of contracts. Or you know, private land crossing. Or you know, having fish and game come check the tags and stuff like that, you know it doesn't hurt. You know, save you some phone calls. You know the phone calls hit that fish cops line and they don't come to you. Finally, you know, and so went and killed an elk and got the phone calls, you know, for months after, really and that was a big drama deal.

Speaker 2: 42:10

Anyway, you know that elk was before we even got there, that was claimed and stuff like that. You know they had guys lined up ready to hunt it and didn't even know where he lived and trail camera pictures got leaked out, you know, and for months guys were hunting that bull. That was dead for months. Oh really, yeah, no, I got phone calls from a guy, big time hunting guy, tv show guy. He showed up to go hunt that elk. Well, he answered the phone and uh, he said I heard you killed my elk. I said what it's like november I hadn't killed any elk, but some cows maybe for a couple months. What are you talking about? And uh, he said well, I was hunting a big elk and sounds like you got it and I just wanted to make sure it was on the up and up. I said fuck, like who are you to be calling me, asking if there are things on the up and up?

Speaker 2: 42:58

I've heard your stories, you know yeah and uh, he's like well, I paid a lot of money to hunt that elk so well we paid a lot of money get him killed, you know, and we actually ended up with him.

Speaker 2: 43:09

He's like well, I just want to make sure you know I didn't get you know bad end of the deal. I was like, well, it sounds like it, you know, and I said I'll be, you know, I'll be square with you. Like you, tell me where you were hunting and who you're hunting with, I'll tell you where you were even at, or if he was anywhere close to that elk, or even before he was dead, and he kind of beat around for a minute and finally told me where he was and he was 200 miles away from where that elk lived, you know. So we had no chance and then he didn't even land to go hunt that elk for two weeks after he was already dead and the outfitter never told him. No man, no, no, they, them outfitters down there sold pictures of that bull for still still selling pictures of that elk, you know, claiming they knew where he was or that's who we're hunting.

Speaker 1: 43:52

You know stuff like that that's the scary part about the the hunting world on these guide and outfitters, even some of these big name guys that are everybody knows and everybody's here's the shit that they do blows my mind how I mean we've dealt with it. And I mean, dude, I know guys that were showing up showing me pictures of deer, like where's this one at? Yeah, and I'm like and told like yo don't say anything that there's dead. Oh yeah, because it's the outfitter's buddy that came in and killed her girlfriend. Yeah, now I gotta lie to some some poor old dude like, and then puts, puts me in the spot like that shit sucks that was the hardest part working the guy I used to work for I started working for in mexico.

Speaker 2: 44:34

It was always something shady, it was always something. And you get like you know there'd be his constant clients or whatever that are hunting and you know they kind get low preference and they get it too. They hunt with him a lot or whatever. Then you get these guys that are booked off the internet or whatever. Who knows who they are no connection.

Speaker 2: 44:53

And repeatedly I tell stories for days about guys showing up and like I want to hunt this deer. He's been dead for a while and even then you wouldn't have been able to hunt that ranch anyway. We gotta go over here and try to drum something up out of nowhere, you know, and guys get that in their head or whatever, even the management deer type thing. You know, we killed like 197 inch three point once and then that was the picture the guy was sending out as your management deer and so everyone expected that's what they're killing for five thousand dollar management deer. And there was one of them, you know, and we charged that guy as a trophy type of thing, you know, and there's your 170 inch three by four shooting and these guys were like that's not what I saw, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:36

Yeah, and so that's tough. You know I hate, I hate getting in that situation and trying to have to not be honest. You know what mean, especially when it's someone else. You know pushing that behind you don't know, like if you give me the heads up, like you know I sent this guy all these pictures and you know find something good or whatever yeah, fine, but when guys are showing up like I gotta decide if I want a 200 inch typical or a 210 trashy deer like dog. The biggest deer I've seen over here is like 192 yeah, you're gonna shoot it, I hope you shoot him, you know, and so you get, you know, getting some predicaments.

Speaker 2: 46:10

I had a guy, one of the worst instances with a client I've ever had, he uh, he come in a bad time of the year, bad timing, you know, bad moon, middle december, deer ain't rutting, yeah, so it's a. It's a tough, tough time to be hunting deer anyway. Well then, the only ranch I'm able to take him to hunt was decent, sometimes like they killed a 210 buck on it three years ago. Whatever, you know, there's deer, whatever. So we're out there grinding trying to find some, you know, two, three days go by and load deer numbers and whatever. Finally we catch wind of a decent deer and and uh, ended up finding him. We're in the high rack, you know.

Speaker 2: 46:45

And and pretty good, shot out in the on the brush and the guy can't see him very well. He's like, how big is he? I was like he's, he's 190, typical, clean, slick, pretty, four point, you know, right at 190. Great, shoots him, get out there and he's jacked. I mean, this grown-ass 70 year old man jumps up and down. Biggest deer he's ever seen is from like Wisconsin or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, jacked out of his mind, taking pictures, you know, and driving back to the camp, you know, drinking beer at 7 in the morning, just excited, just pumped, you know. We get back to the house and he finally gets the Wi-Fi and he's calling his friends and sending pictures out, and just stoked you.

Speaker 1: 47:20

He was stoked. You know how you should be.

Speaker 2: 47:22

I'm out there. He wanted to get back going, so we had to cross the border and so we had to get the head all cleaned up, you know, and cape ready and frozen as much as we could and whatnot. So I'm out there in the shed doing all the work and got the skull cap done and he comes out. I said let's throw a tape on him real quick. I didn't think much of it, whatever. So I handed him my phone and said you know, add it up, I'll measure it. And if I would have known it was going to be an issue, I'd done the math in my head and made him as big as we needed to be. Anyway, and I tight tape him and, you know, honest tape job. He hits, you know, entered on my phone and throws the phone on the table and goes stomping off. I said what the hell? And he comes back. You don't know shit about deer hunting. What the hell? You lying son of a bitch. So what is going on? I grabbed my phone, I kid you not.

Speaker 1: 48:10

It said 189 and seven eights I ruined the whole entire and I said okay, what?

Speaker 2: 48:16

and I went and asked him and said um, you know, gary said what? What's the deal here? You told me that deer was 190 and I finally lost it. I keep it under pressure with all them guys and I'm like what the hell? You're talking an eighth inch. I'll remeasure and we'll get.

Speaker 1: 48:31

I'll get another inch out of him I'll get 10 inches out of me, you know yeah and uh.

Speaker 2: 48:36

So I just would appreciate, like a respectable, responsible, professional guide here, that if he's going to tell me a deer is 190 inches, he better be 190. I said the deer was in the brush at 300 yards and I got within an eighth inch. Pretty good, you know, I consider that a win. You know, yeah and uh, I said as tight a tape as I usually run on stuff. That's that's probably what he's damn near gonna net, and who? Who can claim that? You know who can get mad at that. Oh, and he lost it.

Speaker 2: 49:04

He was, didn't want to finish paying, you know, obviously no tip. Wanted to ride back to the airport the next day. Well, by golly we missed his flight. He's a little slow getting through the border, you know, and so I just let him stew in it, you know, and dropped him off. He didn't have a flight for like seven hours. I hours, I'm like kiss ass. You know, go have a nice day. You know, bye, it's like if that's where you get to, where an eighth inch matters. 10 minutes ago you were, he called no less than 20 people back home, you know, bragging about how big a deer he just got, you know, and threw it away over an eighth inch deer. He didn't even take the deer, yeah, and then you know back, come back. We already filled out a tag and stuff so we had to like export it and just send it to him.

Speaker 1: 49:48

I don't know really what happened after that, but he didn't even want to take the deer. You imagine just that you're at that stage where an eighth of an inch ruins a whole entire adventure.

Speaker 2: 49:55

Well, and that's the thing too, like, if he knew how big the deer was too, why would he shoot it? You know, you know, if they're relying on me and I give them an honest, damn near perfect number, yeah and it's. You know. If you know that a 190 deer is going to make you happy, you should know what a 190 deer looks like. You know, you know, I've had that with elk hunters and stuff too. You know they they want a 350 bull or whatever, and they don't even know what one looks like. I could lie to you all day, you know, you know, and what's the work?

Speaker 1: 50:24

besides him, what's one of the worst clients you've had to deal with? Oh man I know you've had some I've had some doozies.

Speaker 2: 50:31

Um, I mean, one guy wasn't, it wasn't one of the worst, he wasn't, it wasn't a bad experience at all, but it's just one of the ones that makes shake your head. He uh comes elk hunting in utah down there and and he gets in late. You know we had to drive down there and we had uh, he gets in late. You know we had to drive down there and we had the camp trailer set up and had a nice camp trailer for him to stay in. You know, and he gets there. It's like 11 o'clock at night and he's like I ain't staying, no camp trailer. So we'll town's 45 minutes back that way. If you want to go grab a hotel, oh yeah, that's fine. I was like we'll be back here at four to go hunting tomorrow. You know, the elk we're trying to kill, I've seen him tonight. We're gonna, we'll have him done in the morning. Anyway, he come back four o'clock in the morning, just chipper as all could be, you know, cool.

Speaker 2: 51:13

So we hike down to where we're going hunting this elk and and I've been watching him for a little while, you know and and uh, big bull, big bull, you know, net 390, I think he official, netted like 388, you know. And so we're down there on this, on this little point, and he's down in this little dark timber pocket and it's kind of breaking daylight and I haven't heard him bugle yet. So I let out one one cow call. He pipes off. Okay, we're good, we're just gonna wait for daylight and snipe his ass. You know it's done, that's not. He starts coming, just coming right up the ridge to us, oh really. And he's motoring up this hill. That's what, perfect. We ain't even gonna walk down there to get him killed. You know it's gonna be great. And uh, he's coming up the hill and he gets like two, three hundred yards and just ripping bugles as much as he could. I hope this guy keeps it together. You know, one of the prettiest elk I've ever seen, like you know, 390 net, six points straight six. And uh, this bull's bugling a storm.

Speaker 2: 52:07

I look and this guy's got his phone out and his gun on his boot with his, you know, hand on the barrel, like this and just like on his phone typing an email or something. I said you gotta get ready, he's coming. I said we might, we're. You know, we're either gonna spook him or hopefully he slows up a little bit because I'm like I I'd like to set my phone for shooting light to like vibrate in my pocket, you know whatever legal light is. So it starts vibrating, I say it's going to be right there.

Speaker 2: 52:32

Anyways, how big is he? Fucking huge. Look at him. You can see him. You know he's 200 yards in a wide open ridge coming out. He's like, well, what's his score? I said, well, you know, he's 390, net right there all day.

Speaker 2: 52:46

Oh well, I was thought we was hunting 400 bulls and that year I was like I said I don't have a 400 bull, like that whole mountain, you know any 380 plus bulls kind of known about. So the only 400 inch bull that we really knew about on this mountain got killed during the archery hunt a month ago. He's like, well, he's not 400, no, no, he's not. And uh, and you know being honest and uh, he's like, well, I'll pass. I said, dude, he's gonna run us over. Man like we gotta hide now, yeah, where he's coming. I mean about that point. He starts like trotting and just squealing, you know, not even finishing a bugle, and uh, what do I do? Luckily I had like some cell phone service there and I texted one of the other guys. I said you guys shoot, yet he's like no, no, we're about ready.

Speaker 2: 53:33

It was on like the next canyon over and like another 380 type bull. And uh I said dude, he's passing on this bull. He's like no way, like there's no way and like they they'd had issues with this client before, kind of the same thing passing on stuff you know. And uh, so they'd come back over the ridge and sniped him like 8, 8, 50, like right underneath us, really, you know, and shot him. And uh, so I and I asked him I said are you sure? Like they're gonna shoot him, you know, and he's gonna be less than 100 yards from us when they shoot him. He's like, yeah, if he's not 400, I'm good. Like well, he's going to be less than 100 yards from us when they shoot him. He's like, yeah, if he's not 400, I'm good, I'm like well, he's not, so anyway they dust him.

Speaker 2: 54:13

We go walking down there and I kind of have a thing I don't like touching an animal before the hunter gets there and I had to tell him no and we walked up to it and I kind of put my hands up on a couple times just to double-check what, and just double check what I thought he was. And he's right there. This guy's like God damn, that's the biggest elk I've ever seen. And he's like how big is he? I said man, he's right there where I thought he was, I'm not too far off. And he's like I've never seen nothing this big. I hope we get one bigger than this man. We ain't got one, and anyway. So them guys get over there and we pack him out and, yeah, we taped him out and I think later he netted like 388, you know it was a straight six big enough, you know, dream out, oh, yeah, anyway.

Speaker 2: 54:52

So that guy you know we got done with that and asked that guy said what do you want to?

Speaker 1: 54:56

do? He's like well, let's go hunting.

Speaker 2: 54:57

I said man, you know that other 380 type bull that they didn't kill in the next canyon, still over there, and we had like a couple more clients waiting in town. I said, well, how about? You know, I had had to thought in my head real quick. I said, how about we grab one of them other hunters and if we find an elk that you don't want to shoot, we'll let him shoot it. Oh, yeah, no, that's great idea. And so I go to town and tell this guy's like man, you like shooting 380 bulls, yup, yup, yeah sounds. I think he might've been a draw tag guy, you know, and that my client guy was a auction tag guy. And so, yeah, we go into the next can and shoot that like 385 bull, you know he's like seven by eight or something. And we get down there and the guy's like, oh dang, these are just beautiful elk. I said, do you want one Like? The next one I have is about the same type of deal. And we got one more client in town. So, yeah, let's go. And so we went, got the other guy and went back out kind of out.

Speaker 2: 55:49

They took us, I think, another day or two to find the other bull he was looking for and and we get in there and getting ready to shoot him, and and, uh, he almost wanted to shoot him, the you know the paint. The big client wanted to shoot him. I'm like, well, that's, you know, that's fine, whatever, the other guy didn't care at all, anyway he didn't, so he shoots him. So we killed like three bulls over 380 in like three, four days. And uh, I told him when he was kind of done with that last one. I said, well, it was like now we're really looking for something. I mean, that was my top handful of bulls we have. And he's like you know what? Nah, I got uh, people come coming hunting doves back at the place in Texas this weekend. I'll probably just head on home. I bet he spent $70,000, $80,000 on that tag that year. Didn't even give a shit.

Speaker 2: 56:33

Oh yeah, here's a tip. Sounds good, thanks Bye. How would it be?

Speaker 1: 56:39

God bro.

Speaker 2: 56:41

So not like a negative experience, but just like yeah, know so not like a negative experience, but it's just like, yeah, but then look, you know too if that guy would have killed one of them.

Speaker 1: 56:47

He don't really he doesn't, you know, he doesn't appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 56:50

You know it's gonna go in the game room and that guy don't care, you know those are the worst ones.

Speaker 1: 56:54

Yeah, when you could just tell they're just there just because they have the money and and here here you are, like putting them on an animal that you would literally do anything to have the opportunity to hunt. They're like, yeah, not bad, and you're like not bad. I mean I had a client. He ended up shooting the wrong deer and it was a great hunt. Guy was great old. This old fart he's got his little safari pouch.

Speaker 1: 57:22

Look at his bullets on the side and you know this, the whole nine yards and and uh, I find this deer and the whole one side is like just drooped over his face like a giant five. Then it had this giant club with a ball hanging off of it under his chin and I was like, listen, you could have all the deer on the wall. This one's gonna get the attention like you down you would. You like to kill him, you know? I showed him the phone scope and like he's like, oh, I'll shoot that deer right now.

Speaker 1: 57:48

I'm like cool first day, like opening day, like we're not even supposed to be like hunting yet. We're just driving around, find this thing, we crawl in and, long story short, that buck stands up with like three other deer and I'm like, hey, you're on him. He's like, yeah, I'm on him, and he shoots. And he, when we first started, we got out of the turkey, he's like I can shoot him from here. I'm like 680-something yards, like we can close the distance, we can get out and get closer. I can shoot him from right here. I'm like we're good, so we get in. I get this guy to like 180 yards Deer. I'm like, hey, you ready. He's like, yeah, I'm on him. I'm like hammer him. And he shoots like three feet over his back Because they're in this little draw and there's like a dirt bank behind him.

Speaker 2: 58:28

You've got to be literally the overconfident long-range guy.

Speaker 1: 58:32

And I go, you missed, and he goes erroneous. There's no way I go, you missed, he goes impossible, yeah, impossible yeah, and I'm like I'm like, sir, you, you missed like.

Speaker 1: 58:45

And he's like where is it? It's opening day, it's first rifle season of the year. So the deer is like standing there, like didn't know what's going on. I'm behind him and I'm like turning his feet, like I've got his feet and I'm dragging him. So he's kind of turning and I'm like, do you see that? And I'm pointing that over his back, like down his barrel, like right there, the deer's's right there. He's like I'm on, I'm on him and I'm watching this buck and pow and I just hear what. And he's like that, get him. And I'm like got something. I was like yeah, and I.

Speaker 1: 59:14

I come out of my binos and I'm looking this deer, this other bucks, just dragging like thing. It just piles up and he's like. He's like I get him, like you got one of them. He's like what do you mean one of them? He's like that was the deer. I'm like no, that deer's running off and we go over there and it's like a. It was like a 175, you know, like just typical buck. It wasn't bad, you know. But the other one was way cooler. Yeah, and he goes. Well, just go cap it. I'm like I'm not skull capping this, I'm like you could keep.

Speaker 1: 59:46

Yeah, he ended up just screwing it in the barn and I was like god, it was still, it was an old, like one set, so it was all bladed and had like cool character to it. But yeah, man, it was hilarious like. But he just he didn't even care. I'm like god, I'm fucking kill this deer in heart. I mean especially the age. I'll shoot age over. You know anything. I love old ancient bucks. That one was old roman nose, like beautiful. I kept the cape on. It's actually on in my freezer. I'm gonna put one of my replicas on it.

Speaker 1: 1:00:11

But uh, just, yeah, just didn't, didn't give shit. I'm like impossible. I'm like you fucking ended. And then his it is uh, his rifles, bolt action, the ejection little nipple that you know, pull, pops your brass out, wasn't working. So he had like single shot, load it. So after he shot, he like rolled on his side and I could hear him unclicking this shit and he was standing there and I'm like, oh, my god, like what a nightmare. But he was a great guy, it was fun. But yeah, he was like this is great and he was like all right, I'm gonna go home now, just yeah, some of them guys, attitude's the biggest thing on them.

Speaker 1: 1:00:44

You know, show up positive attitude and happy, whatever happens, or you show up and the guy just the worst ad oh I've had one horrible client and he tipped me 100 bucks and I gave it back to him after a week and, uh, I put him. I'm so glad it didn't turn out like I've never. He's the only client that I've ever like he didn't tag out. I was like thank god, because he just didn't deserve it. I felt like, but we watched this deer, just big tip, we called him Big T. I think you might have actually been out there at one point. We were guiding but this deer's bedded and I watched him three days in a row get up, walk on a string to this cornfield feed and then they'd fuck off till dark. So fuck off till dark. So the like. The last day we finally was like the deer's bedded out in this field and I'm like all right, well, we'll, we'll, yeah, we'll get it done. So we sneak into this field. I put this dude right where you can see these deers trail in the mud, like where they're walking every day. I'm like we're we're 15 yards down, up, up, you know, downwind from it, and I'm like it's gonna be a perfect shot. It's sure as shit. This deer gets up and it's coming right at us. We're watching it from like 800 yards away and it's all just flat and walking straight. And I'm like, here it comes and he's like this deer gets within probably two to three hundred yards on a string straight ass. He's like we're not in the right spot, we need to be down in the corner, and I'm like this is we're literally like this is the path that it's walking with. These does every day and he was at this point in the week he had just this dude, just was one of them. I'm like, yeah, he's the ones that you like take into a river bottom, just walk there all day and just tracks, just walk them all day. So it's the last day and he's like we're in the wrong spot. I'm like, yeah, we are where you want to go and he moves down.

Speaker 1: 1:02:19

That deer ended up walking where my knee print was in the mud. On the edge of that cornfield. There was a hoof print in my knee print. Where they walked into the field, that dude threw the biggest bitch fit and god he mother, effed me up and down all over the place and I was like you've had four opportunities this week that you literally have made changed because you know, archery hunters are super particular and like, yeah, hey, if you got a preference, cool, I'm just here to show you deer, get you in as close. Like, if you want to make your your play, cool, I'm cool with that. And yeah, and that last day.

Speaker 1: 1:02:52

And then he, he ends up giving me a hundred dollar tip and I was like in the whole time he just bragged about how much money he had and all of this and that and I made all my money and he brought his buddy out and they're talking shit about the other guy and I'm his phone's sitting there and I'm reading the whole entire dude. It was just a nightmare. But yeah, he gave me 100 bucks and gave it back to him. I was like, clearly you need it more than I do. And dude, he that dude was. He was just one of those ones where I was like I couldn't get him out of my truck fast enough.

Speaker 2: 1:03:18

It was brutal hands down. My worst guy like that ever. He wins the title every time. Kind of a long story, but but started.

Speaker 2: 1:03:30

So when we was in mexico there was like four of us guiding, so like every friday we'd go to tucson airport, get a client, you know, whatever client we had assigned to us or whatever, load them up, grab groceries, head back, you know, four or five hour drive each way. So we're at the airport and there's only like one flight a day, you know, and everyone's got their client. I'm sitting there waiting for this guy and you know we have his number. I'm calling him, emailing him, nothing, nothing, nothing. And you know it's getting like too late. We can't really make the border in time and get back to the house, you know, in the daylight or whatever. So anyway, I tell the guys I'm like well, I see what happened, you know if he missed the flight or whatever. No contact all night, no phone call. No, nothing, no, nothing.

Speaker 2: 1:04:10

The next day, you know I go to the airport whenever the flight comes. There's only one flight into tucson a day or whatever. At the time. Nothing, don't hear from me. Wait like two hours, wait as long as I can. Like, well, screw it like you know no contact at all. I'm going back. You know there's no guys that hunt deer and get back home anyway. So I'm like headed out of town. The guy calls. He's like where the fuck are you? First thing out of his mouth. I'm like what excuse me? He's like well, I'm at the airport I just left the airport.

Speaker 2: 1:04:37

You know, well, I'm at the private airport. Okay, well, it'd been nice knowing. You know I was waiting at tucson international or whatever he's. Yeah, I don't fly commercial, I'm like dude, this is how it's Already. Yeah, like first seven words out of this dude's mouth just lit. It's going to be a long week, anyway. So I thought it was weird and we found out later it was a scam.

Speaker 2: 1:04:59

He flew in commercial and Uber to the private airport. Why, this guy was just One of those. Oh yeah, l, this guy was just one of those. Oh yeah, lowe's home improvement tool bag. They're just terrible, because I pull in there and he just got his shit laying on the tarmac.

Speaker 2: 1:05:12

You know, I've picked guys up at that airport before and fuck's a jet, you know got out of here pretty quick. You know, oh yeah, no, they had. You know I had to send it somewhere, cool, whatever. And so, uh, we're driving back and and, uh, I said so, I thought you were supposed to come in yesterday. Well, no, I was busy. I said, well, you know, no offense, but it'd been nice to know.

Speaker 2: 1:05:31

You know, I just wasted a day of my time, type of deal. He said, well, I was I had you know things to do, cool, driving you know four or five hour drive, driving down the road. He's like, well, you're not even going to ask me what I was doing I, what were you doing? It was Trump's inauguration the first time, okay, and he's like, well, I was at the inauguration. I said Trump's Like it was that day before. He's like, well, yeah, I said oh, that's wild. Like, how was it, you know? Well, it was great. He's like cool, you know you could tell he's wanting me to just sit there and fish and and uh, finally, I was like you got any pictures.

Speaker 1: 1:06:06

Well, no, no, I didn't take any pictures secret service wouldn't let me use my yeah, yeah, well 100.

Speaker 2: 1:06:10

He said something like that to someone later that week like, yeah, we couldn't have our phones. I was like, dude, I seen a live streamed on twitter yesterday. Like you know, we was watching it at the house and anyway, so we get to the house. Well then, we, we get there like kind of too late to really go hunting, so we just go around the house.

Speaker 2: 1:06:26

You know, we've killed deer there, whatever, and it's kind of burning the afternoon and then I didn't know where the other guys had went, other ranches and stuff so we just kind of burned the afternoon at the house, didn't, I think, was maybe seen a deer or something, you know. At dinner that night he's like, yeah, I'm already like what did he say? Like three grand down on this hunt and I haven't even seen a deer. Like, however, however much the hunt was break down, how many days he was there, it was, you know, three grand a day type of thing oh my god.

Speaker 2: 1:06:52

Well then, he's sitting there at dinner and and the other clients that were there have since become some of my best friends and and uh, this guy was just bragging about how much money he's making. He's like a landscaper from texas. And and uh, he starts like showing guys on his phone. He's like yeah, I make so much money. The irs just takes like 60 grand out of this bank account, like every day. And austin, one of the dudes there. He's like that's not right, like that's. You know, they got to lean on you like oh, no, no, no, it's just easier that way, you know. And these other guys are multi-millionaire business guys, you know, they know how shit works, you know. And they like no, that's fines, you're required to pay that. They don't just take taxes daily. He's like well, when you make as much money as I do, type of deal, whatever, you already know it was a tool bag, anyway.

Speaker 2: 1:07:39

So the next morning we get up and we have breakfast at like 5. You guys are running around, everyone's kind of getting in the trucks, the mexican guys ready, got lunch going, ready to go, and where the fuck's this guy? Nothing. So I go back in the bedrooms he's still in bed and I like grab a blanket. I'm like get up, you know, let's go. He's like, well, when's breakfast? Said 45 minutes ago, like we're late, you know, and he's, I'll be having my breakfast. Okay, cool, you know, go down. He's sitting there, he's eating pancakes, like no hustle, not like slap bacon on a biscuit and let's go.

Speaker 2: 1:08:12

And uh, so I tell you know, our driver kid said, well, we're just going to hunt here at the house, at the ranch here, cause I'm not wasting going to a ranch that I was supposed to go to, you know, getting there late, you know, and wasting it. So we get, you know, driving around the house and you know he kind of knows what's up, and so we didn't see any deer yesterday. So well, it's a new day, you know, and we seen some stuff, you know nothing special 170 inch deer or something like that. And and so then we stayed there at the house around all day, had lunch at the house and stuff. Get back and man, he's out there talking shit again to all the other clients and stuff, and like a couple of them I had hunted with before, you know, and I remember rick, I heard him say it he's like hey, he's the only one that's killed a deer every week this year. You know, I'd just be patient, like you're gonna find something, and uh.

Speaker 2: 1:08:57

So we get to dinner and finally I'm like this guy's got to. You know, we gotta, we gotta get a deer killed and get this guy out of here. So I had a ranch I won't been wanting to go to, you know, but it we had to leave it like two in the morning to get there type of deal. And then if we didn't kill or whatever, we had to stay the night in town and I'm like I'm gonna ruin this guy's day by making him drive that far and then we're gonna stay in the sketchy part of town and you know, this guy's gonna learn today anyway.

Speaker 2: 1:09:22

And so one of the other clients wanted to go with, and so one of the other guys. So we convoyed down there. Like yeah, like two in the morning, we split up, they go on one side of the mountain, we go on the other, climb up over the hill, look down this valley and there's two deer fighting just, I mean getting it fighting and uh, I can't really tell how big they are. You know they're nice deer. You can't tell they're fighting. You know, can't really tell all the specifics. So I get him all set up and he's laying, you know, on the rocks and stuff and he's bragging how sick his titanium action on this gun is and titanium we ended up calling him like titanium dick because everything he had was titanium okay, yeah just everything.

Speaker 2: 1:09:59

And and uh, so he's laying down these deer, like 300 yards, just getting it fighting. You know I'm videoing it, it's. It was a badass deer fight anyway. And finally kind of broke and I said man, they're about the same, they're both mid-190s deer. I said whatever kind of one we get a shot at you know. Okay, yeah, sounds good. Well, they kind of break and one deer just hauls ass. I said, well, that deer, the deer is still there, just as good. You know reading out yardages.

Speaker 2: 1:10:24

He's walking, I'm stopping him and nothing, nothing. I said you good, like you need to move and like we're like kind of right on, like the boundary fence of the ranch. You know, maybe the deer had like 200 yards to go and uh, so I'm gonna stop him again. He's 340 yards. Whatever, hammer him mac, nothing, he's not shooting. I said what the hell? And I kicked him. I said, dude, do you need something? Like what's going on? He like won't even like kind of look up at me. I'm like what the hell? Right before he gets to the fence. I said, last chance, man, like we're not shooting him over that fence, nothing, he doesn't shoot, nothing Doesn't like he doesn't even look, like he's really following the deer. Deer jumps the fence. I said he walks by and uh, he's, I'll be in the truck. So what the fuck was that? And he's like stomping off, you know, left some of his shit there. And so I told the driver, kiss and grab all the stuff. I'm gonna go figure out what's what's going on. I catch him down by the truck, said dude, what the hell like, was the deer not big enough, not get a good shot? Like you gotta, you gotta communicate here. Why didn't you shoot that deer? I don't want to talk about it. Okay, sounds great, boss.

Speaker 2: 1:11:29

And so Martin gets down there with all of our stuff, you know, and we're kind of loading up and he's like what's? You know what's going on? So we're sitting there talking shit in Spanish on him, you know, and he's just sitting in the passenger seat of the truck and I'm like, hey, man, like since we didn't kill a deer, we got to hang out here like all day and then stay in town tonight, because I'm not driving all the way back, and you know, back in the morning, like there's two great deer here, we'll kill them. No, we gotta go back to the house now. I said for what I don't want to talk about it. You shit his pants or something. No, no, no, no.

Speaker 2: 1:12:00

So like I was like and at this point I'm already pissed I'm like you tell me why we gotta go back the house. It's like a six hour drive, dude. You tell me why we got to go back to the house, we'll go. He's like I'm telling you we got to go. I said I'm telling you I'll leave your ass here. You're in the shit now. Like we leave you here, you're dead.

Speaker 1: 1:12:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:12:17

And uh, so just tell me why. Like, yeah, important thing, do we need to go? I don't want to talk about it, we need to go, we ain't leaving. So me and martin just start drinking beer on the tailgate, you know, and gets about like lunchtime, you know, and he comes out. He's like are we leaving or not?

Speaker 2: 1:12:35

And I said not a chance till you tell me why we got to go, said we're just going to wait till dark. That buck will be back in that valley with them does. Well, I just need to go back. I said I don't you, I don't care at this point and we're like out of radio contact with the other guys, you know. So no one really knows what's going on and it was just kind of shitty all around. Finally, it's like about an hour before we're ready to hike up the hill, I said get shit ready, we're going to go back up there. Nope, we got to go back to the house where we do that. I said we ain't going. I said we can go back now, but we ain't coming hunting. I said I'll drop you off at the airport, I'm over it. And he said well, if you would have reminded me to get my bullets, I would have had bullets today I said what?

Speaker 1: 1:13:18

He didn't bring any rounds, he didn't have any bullets, he didn't tell you that after?

Speaker 2: 1:13:21

No, he didn't tell me. When he's laying there looking at the deer like dog, I ain't got no bullets. I said, are you serious? And he like kind of chests up to me, he's like a smaller dude and stuff. I said this ain't going to fly. He's like if you would have been a decent guide or reminded me to have all my shit. And I said I got to get you out of bed too. Like you're a grown ass man. I got to remind you to get bullets and shit, shit. Like I figured he was a competent human and uh, he's getting all lippy and stuff said well, we ain't going back to the house. If you would have told me, I could have radioed or, you know, sat, texted and met him halfway or brought him here, grabbed another gun. There's a lot of options here, yeah, and you're being a douche and you basically just ruined your you know your deer hunt because now we got to go back tonight.

Speaker 1: 1:14:05

I ain't coming early in the morning six hour drive back at night. Now the sun's going down yeah, and it's dark.

Speaker 2: 1:14:12

I said, well, we're going to go back, and then we ain't coming first thing in the morning, we're going to come and try to hit the afternoon hunt tomorrow. So you basically just waste the two days, you know, and you're talking that three grand a day or whatever, yeah, whatever, anyway. So we come around the mountain finally get them other guys on the radio tell them what's up. I got the radio in the truck. It's like on the speaker and the client guy's like what a dumbass, you know. And he's sitting there. His name's Rob. He's a piece of shit and he's just like all grumpy, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:14:41

I said, well, we got to go back to town. You guys want to go or what not, and want to go or what not. And they're like no, we've seen a big deer, we're going. But they didn't. It was like a giant three point, like it was 197 inch three point. Yeah, but they didn't shoot it. It was the guy that was guiding. It was like his first week, I think, maybe. And he's like, well, I didn't know if we shot him for a management tag, you know whatever. I said, well, if he wants to shoot him as his trophy, shoot him. Yeah, like, all right, well cool, we'll stay here. And, uh, you know, shoot in the morning, so we haul ass. Well then we get home and I just said, screw it. I said we're just going back, I want to get that deer killed and you know get done and then help them guys, you know, because it sounded like they had some issues whatever.

Speaker 2: 1:15:16

So we get hauling ass back down there and get there at daylight and I said you got bullets Like the whole way, like every 30 minutes minutes. You know, driving down there's like you got bullets, you sure. You know, and I'm just I mean, I'm just laying it on this guy, just it's a piece of shit. And uh, we get down there and we climb up on our mountain and the first deer I glass up is a giant three point and I'm like, oh shit, and austin the guy, the other hunter, was just in love with his deer and you know, I said I'm gonna run back to the truck, I'm gonna radio them.

Speaker 2: 1:15:45

Guys get them over's like no, I'll be shooting that deer. I said, no, you ain't shooting that deer just because you know Austin wanted to shoot it. I said, dude, you know I'll be shooting that deer, whatever Hopefully he misses. You know he was laying down. I was doing this like trying to scare that deer off and stuff, and he hammers, just throttles this deer.

Speaker 2: 1:16:04

Yeah, anyway, we get up there, get pictures, get into the truck, we come down. So I'm trying to hurry on to get to the radio and we get around the mountain to radio them. And I was like don't be hunting that deer any longer. We got him, you know, and he's like, fuck, yeah, now we ain't got to deal with that dickhead, we can hunt for fun now. And that dude and he's still one of my better friends of this day that other client, you know, that guy was just just sitting over the grumpy like getting shit talked on the radio. You know, yeah, anyway. And so he's like, well, now what? And I said, dude, you're just waiting at the house, you can go hunt coyotes at the house with one of the one of the mexican drivers. You know well, I'd like to look for another deer. I said, nah, you ain't hunting no other deer.

Speaker 2: 1:16:42

Ended up helping the other client. Well then, uh, you know, last day of the week we're getting everything ready to go to town and and you know that's when they're handing the tips out and all that stuff. And this guy's just sitting in his room like just packed up, ready to go, you know, and austin goes in there. He's like he's like you guys tipped anything and like that deer ended up killing was like the biggest one of the week or something. And and uh, he's like, no, no, I figured you know they could have done a little better. And Austin like grabbed him by the back of the shirt and was like you'll be writing checks to everyone that helped you on this hunt, you know, and tipping them what they're worth. You know you killed the biggest deer of the trip. You know great, whatever. Yeah, and you're just nothing but an ass all week, pissing people off Like every time at night.

Speaker 2: 1:17:23

You know the food was, he wanted something different, needed a change and sending like food back and whatever anyway. So he like wrote some checks or whatever. I think he wrote me like a thousand bucks something. And we're driving back and I got him and that other hunter in the truck driving back and and, uh, we get to like tucson. He's like let's go cash that check before we get him to the airport so he doesn't cancel and have a chance to cancel it. Yeah, and we did. I mean, this guy, he's like 5'4", like a little tiny dude, just an ignorant dick Always, dude, always, always.

Speaker 2: 1:17:54

And he'd just sit back there all grumpy, didn't want to say nothing the whole time, you know, and I dropped him off at the airport and I guess they went to leave. Well, because then I was asking him the whole way I was like you sure you don't want to fly private today, or where's your plane? You know, yeah, oh, no, it's busy. I had to get a commercial flight, you know, and Austin's like, oh, you got to ride with the peasants now and shit, and drop him off. And I guess Austin, when they went to like kind of split ways at the airport, you know, he's like well, it was a, you get fucked parted ways and never seen him.

Speaker 2: 1:18:31

Since those guys are the worst, yeah, it's just, it's just in situations them guys get, you know, thinking they're better than everyone, just because there's the one spending the money.

Speaker 1: 1:18:36

You know they get that. I don't know what I mean. Obviously it's money that changes them, but yeah, and being like five, four and picked on their whole life and now they have money, so they, they think they have a voice, it's like bro slap the shit out of you out here.

Speaker 2: 1:18:49

I don't care about this hundred thousand dollar tip, that much you know. I'll leave you here, get you scared.

Speaker 1: 1:18:55

I'm gonna get more joy out of slapping you and leaving you out here for a night, yeah, sleeping in the cold. Yeah, didn't you have two clients like stab each other, one stab another one?

Speaker 2: 1:19:05

well, that was in idaho yeah, no, they was some guys hunting cow, elk, yeah, and they shot an elk and and uh shot a cow and they went down there to like skin and gut it or whatever. And uh went to get the truck or something and come back and they was like mid stabbing, you know, and what the hell is going on. He's like he nicked me, you know, and what. And load the guy up he's like holding his side, load him up and get him to salmon. And uh, um, we get there and they take him in the emergency room. I called ahead and I'm doing like 100 through that canyon and yeah, bleeding all over my truck and and uh, get him there.

Speaker 2: 1:19:41

And you know, they got shanked right in the liver and the brother got stabbed in the ass and cops come, you know, to get a statement I guess, yeah, they're in there gutting on this elk together. And he nicked the one brother's hand. Well, he just stabbed him in the ass, cheek. And that guy stabbed the other brother like right in the liver, like they said, he was like 10 minutes from dying, you know. And the cops are like what? And I'm like, dude, I'm going to get sued Like this ain't good.

Speaker 2: 1:20:11

And they stitched up the one brother's ass cheek, like literally, just like had like a whole wad of gauze on his ass and I'm like, yeah, get down out of here. And they were like trying to press charges on him. They're like no, we're brothers, you know, that's what brothers do. Cops like no, they don't. And so we're sitting there waiting, and I mean it. We shot that elk in the morning, it's like six, seven hours later, and, uh, I told the cops, I said, man, I better get back, get that elk taken care of, I guess. And and the brother was stabbing the ass like he's like I'll come with you.

Speaker 2: 1:20:42

I said, no, I'm good, I got her yeah he's like he's like, when my brother gets out, we'll come back get that other other elk. They both had tags. I said dude, no, I'm dropping this one off at the butcher and you guys lose my number. He's like oh, we'll get you your tip. I said, no, no, no, you guys are square. You guys just never call me, ever again.

Speaker 1: 1:20:59

That is wild chaos.

Speaker 2: 1:21:03

Oh, yeah, right, when I was pulling up there, I mean they was like mid, like jousting, you know fuck, and like I seen these like holding his, you know holding his right side. That ain't a good spot to be bleeding from, you know. You're like what? Uh, yeah, I've gone 10 minutes. Yeah, oh, not even that. You know. Like yeah, yeah, and they were like in their 60s.

Speaker 1: 1:21:25

Yeah, I have fun telling that one at thanksgiving, I guess I don't know yeah, jerry about died from missing half his liver, you know, not to mention the infection you're probably gonna get mid gutting an elk.

Speaker 2: 1:21:37

Yeah I never. I didn't really, I didn't really care to follow up either. But I don't hear much, you know but yeah, I ran into a cop, the one of the cops that was there like maybe the next year or something. So whatever happens that, I don't know, I forgot that one the day it happened.

Speaker 1: 1:21:52

Yeah, I don't care, I don't need.

Speaker 2: 1:21:54

Speak of this? Yeah, I ain't reminding them or nothing. And they didn't get their other elk. I don't need no lawsuit, no, yep, nothing crazy.

Speaker 1: 1:22:01

We'll just act like everything is just fine. Yep, I haven't heard nothing. God, so Mexico you've done a lot down there. Yep, you've done some crazy shit. You've seen some shit in Mexico, oh yeah, yeah, tell me some Mexico stories, because I know you've got some.

Speaker 2: 1:22:20

Oh yeah, no, I mean, I guess when I started down there, the guy I used to work for, not you know, depends on who you talk to, if it's good name or not. You know and and um, you know, all bullshit aside, he's a shitty human. But if you had to go kill a 200 inch deer life or death, you take that guy. Okay, you know, and. But just shitty situations constantly. Dude can't tell the truth. Fuck you out of money. Shady situation he put you in a shady situation because there's supposed to be a big deer over there. Well, what of money? Shady situation he put you in a shady situation because there's supposed to be a big deer over there.

Speaker 1: 1:22:50

Well, what's a shady situation?

Speaker 2: 1:22:52

oh, on the border, and you can't hunt there on wednesdays, because that's when they're working and there's gonna be armed guards at the gate and they know who you are and stuff like that so you're hunting ranches that are run by oh yeah, certain entrepreneurs, entrepreneur groups down there yeah, and you know you get in, you get into them and you know one of the guys.

Speaker 2: 1:23:11

We went to his house and this dude's got like marble ceilings and like chandeliers the size of the house and stuff and hellcats and hummers parked out front, you know, and like dude's an outfit, you know hunts, deer come down like a track suit and shit you know, gold chain you know nicest people, you know. I mean, yeah, you know, nice as they can be, you know, but obviously, obviously some shit's going on. You know they're not doing that from owning a restaurant or nothing, you know no and so.

Speaker 2: 1:23:41

So yeah, I mean one of the first times went hunting, um, you know, middle, haven't been down there much. You know, go climb that hill middle of the dark. You know at, haven't been down there much. You know, go climb that hill middle of the dark. You know, at daylight you're up there spotting all right, sounds good. So, walking through the shit and I mean it's nasty bushes down there, cactus and stuff, and go climbing. There's like these old, like volcano center hills, so there's real steep.

Speaker 2: 1:24:04

Lugging my fat ass up there and get on the top and sit down and you know they told me which direction kind of look, and I'm sitting there and get my you know my tripod, set up my little chair and waiting for daylight and dude, out of the dark, it's pitch black out of the dark. A guy taps me on the shoulder and I, you know come what the hell, because I'm already on edge, because I didn't know, like the first time I drove down there I didn't really know much at all. Like I exchanged like six text messages with this guy to go work for him, okay, and uh, like I had a pistol in my jockey box and I went through the border and like didn't know, you're not supposed to have that and like oh shit, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:24:40

Like, yeah, do not pass go. You know, anyway, in this, literally I didn't. The dark guy taps him on the shoulder. What the fuck it's been around, the old, old, old mexican guy sitting there and like decent english, like you want some coffee. So what the fuck? Like I just about died, about fell off the mountain. You know too. And uh, I was like no, I don't really like coffee. You know, I'm good, yeah, I'm all right. He's like you work for Thomas. Yeah, yeah, cool, just goes back. Well, like dawn's breaking.

Speaker 2: 1:25:12

This dude lives up there. He's like a spotter, lives on top of the mountain like all the time, and you know spots everything. Like later on, like I'd climb up there a few times for a minute and like check out some truck and radio song. No, whatever dog, like dude just lives up there. Yeah, yeah, pretty much. Like they take him some food up there once in a while and stuff. He just sits up there and he had coffee every damn time you went up there. You know, nice as can be decent english, like whatever man you're just watching. Yeah, everything. It's actually impressive the kind of networks those guys have down there.

Speaker 2: 1:25:52

Like kind of how archaic they have with the radio systems and like kids in town like telling shit.

Speaker 1: 1:25:58

They're all part of it.

Speaker 2: 1:25:59

Oh yeah, they know everything. They know where everyone's going, who's going where, if they're supposed to be there.

Speaker 1: 1:26:04

You know it's crazy how kind of coordinated they are with how janky everything is. You know, you think that they're third world and oh yeah not sophisticated, but they got.

Speaker 2: 1:26:16

They got some system, they got it down, they got the human network, you know. And uh, so yeah, the it was it was about. It might have been that first week um told me to go check some trail cameras on a ranch and basically drew me a map on the sand. You know, take this road, turn it you know this dead horse offside the road and go through this cattle garden, yeah, you know. And then run around and check all these trail cameras, anyway, so I'm bebopping through and we're like the shit Mexico, like out in the desert. You know 80 miles of dirt road to get to a ranch or something. Bebopping down through there, blow a tire and like the sandy wash bottom, and uh, I'm sitting there messing with it and it's sandy and I can't get the jack under a nice. And sitting there messing with it and uh, I look down the in this big long wash and I hear a car coming and I look down there and I grab the binos and look at it and just a blacked out SUV. I'm like cool, that ain't good.

Speaker 1: 1:27:12

And.

Speaker 2: 1:27:12

I think this is my first week. Might've been like the second or third day. I was down there. Okay and well, here we go. You know I'd seen the movies. You know and heard the stories.

Speaker 1: 1:27:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:27:34

Grandma sent me news articles before I went down there, you know anyway. And they're hauling ass. They see me and they come on and uh, I ain't got nothing. Like they left the pistol I smuggled in back at the ranch. You know well, we'll see they pull up nice, as could be roll the window down. Need help?

Speaker 2: 1:27:41

yeah, yeah, I do no shit whistles like seven dudes get out of the back of this like escalate thing. And and uh, they have a better jack and shit. And he's like, do you need a beer? I'm like, yeah, sure he grabbed me a Tecate. And here you go, they're sitting there jacking my truck up and getting the tire back on there. I rolled down with like four spare tires you know, and yeah, he's like, where are you headed?

Speaker 2: 1:28:02

And I said, oh, like I can't remember the ranch name. He's like, oh yeah, yeah, it's just the next turn there, don't go past there. You got it, dog. And really, yeah, I'm pulled in there and went and checked my cameras and didn't I'd seen them later. They worked for, like, the guy we was like renting some of the ranches from and stuff you know, but nice as could be, whatever. Just, yeah, we knew he was coming and we hadn't seen you. They basically knew I was coming and I hadn't been to the ranch yet, so they knew I was somewhere in between, either driving slow, and they're just coming to check.

Speaker 2: 1:28:32

No, shit yeah, and in the middle of nowhere, middle of nowhere, they got everything dialed oh yeah yeah, yeah, I don't know if they they might have known that I had a bad tire because they had a jack ready and stuff, you know. So I don't. I don't know if the guy on the hill see a mirror or whatever, but nice as it could be, here's a beer and these guys will help you fix it Ever any bad times.

Speaker 1: 1:28:51

I mean, you hear these stories about them coming in the camps at night and raiding shit.

Speaker 2: 1:28:55

Yeah, no One of the—well, while I was working for that guy, some of the places we rented yeah, there was obviously shady and stuff, and the guy we used to rent a bunch of ranches from he got whacked in front of his house like drive by, killed him, killed like a kid and some other shit really.

Speaker 2: 1:29:10

So then it just kind of started falling apart. All the property we had kind of leased through him fell apart, you know, because he got whacked and and uh, the people that you know, the group that got him, the kid that actually ended up shooting him, they they killed him before he got home because he wasn't like supposed to go do this hit thing, you know, and so they got him before he got home because he wasn't like supposed to go do this hit thing, you know, and so they got him before they got home and then was calling like begging, like hey, it wasn't us, you know. Then it just went to war down there amongst them two groups and then it just kind of fell apart. Well, right about then we was leasing some other ranches from some other guys and me and another guy and a client or whatever was at this ranch one night and we we kind of I can't remember. We either changed where we was going, like on our way there or something you know, and didn't tell the right people where we were going.

Speaker 2: 1:29:58

So we pull into the ranch house and we're sitting there and and, uh, you know, got truck a bunch of dudes in the back, the ak's and stuff, and and uh like oh and the mexican kid that was driving for us took off and that's not a good sign you know, because normally they're the ones talking to him if we run into him or whatever, and he's gone and I looked at the other guys and this might be it, like I'm pretty sure we can be here, you know, but we was here last week but it was a different day or something and they literally pull up you know, circle the trucks out in front of the house like see us there's.

Speaker 2: 1:30:42

Yeah, I think I don't know if the hunter the hunter might not have been sitting on the porch with us, might have been just me and the other guide guy and uh, they looked at us, didn't care, grabbed a couple guys out, threw them out they had like black bagged and stuff, you know they were still alive Threw them out on the ground, unblacked them, pointed, told them where to go, pulled out and left and you know when they left.

Speaker 2: 1:31:10

Our driver guy come back like like where the fuck do you go, man? Like you're the interpreter, you know like I could have went sideways. He's like, well, it didn't. And he's like, well, you guys didn't see nothing, right? I said no, I didn't see shit we get talking about later. And basically then was like their new spotter guys and they black bag them, take them out where they're wanting to spot, so they don't know where they're at type of deal and not know how to get out, because either they're being forced to work for them or something you know. And yeah, they'd throw them out and they'd climb the mountains. You know, eyes in the sky.

Speaker 1: 1:31:41

It's a different world down there.

Speaker 2: 1:31:42

That was right when I was getting done with that guy. And then they was. We had some issues the. The place where we was hunting sheep, um, was owned by that, that guy that got killed and and, uh, we'd already paid him for the sheep hunts on that place. And so me and one of the Mexican kids went to go check cameras and go look for sheep.

Speaker 2: 1:32:01

And on the way out to the ranch there's like a bunch of tracks on the road, you know, and the gate was like different how we normally had it and stuff, and so we knew something was up and go around the ranch and the deer feeders are missing or the cameras are gone and stuff. So we knew something was wrong. So we left. We're getting back to town and his phone rings like right as right as we hit service, come over a little hill. You hit service and you know, basically the guy tells him like do not ever go back there, your heads will be on the gate. Really, yeah, I'm like well, we ain't going back. He said, well, we got some cameras back. There's like fuck them cameras, you know. Yeah, you know, I know where they sell stealth cams.

Speaker 2: 1:32:38

Yeah, like a phone call yeah, yeah like, and I said, no, that was like. And looking back, luckily I heard that conversation, I heard some other conversations and stuff. Because basically, you know, the guys that killed the owner of that ranch, they took over the, you know, took over the ranch. It was used for their shenanigans and stuff and so we wasn't allowed to hunt there anymore, obviously. Well, yeah, we were out. The money They'd paid him, paid him for the tag, the sheep license and stuff Well, there's no one to represent us. Like there's nothing there.

Speaker 2: 1:33:11

And you know, looking back, honestly, luckily I kind of knew what was going on, because I gave some guys the heads up that they was still wanting to go hunt there. I said, dude, I'm out. That's when I quit. They was wanting to go in their hunt. They're like, well, we'll get the military to go in, scare them guys off, we'll hunt sheep, leave. I'm like, dude, for a sheep, for a sheep, well it was, it was two sheep, it was a father-daughter to go hunt sheep. Okay, I'm like dog, I'm gonna tell that hunter what's up, because he's not gonna take his daughter in there to hunt sheep with knowing what you know, knowing what's going on, like, well, I'm out, the money, you know, and I said I got another option. I know another ranch. You know that guy hates you, but I can take your client, the clients, over there and hunt sheep, you know, and everyone lives and no no, it's not a big deal.

Speaker 2: 1:33:56

Not a big deal. Whatever I'm out, I don't want no part of this. So I leave. And uh, that was when I got done. Well, come to find out they went to like another ranch, shot a sheep off of a different ranch. You know just the whole and aren't?

Speaker 1: 1:34:11

those sheep permits like permitted per ranch. It's not like units, right, it's yeah they got.

Speaker 2: 1:34:15

They got a pretty good system down there. They kind of on the up and up and I actually told them to. Like one of the like fishing game guys down there asked me like do you still work for him? I said no, I don't work there anymore. He's like well, we know he can't hunt the ranch that the sheep tags for. So if they show up with a dead sheep you know obviously it's poached or you know, illegally taken somewhere and uh, you know I'm not, I'm not a narc, but that sounds pretty pretty, pretty logical there.

Speaker 2: 1:34:41

You know, the math is mathing. Yeah, he's like, well, we're kind of watching. I said sounds good. So I told him. When I quit I called one of the guys that come with the hunters and told them I said you know, you guys kill a sheep like they're going to be watching for you. And it was just a shit storm after that. I mean just a mess. You know people still, I still keep hearing people talking shit about that whole deal. You know, to this day, you know I what happened?

Speaker 2: 1:35:09

she supposedly got confiscated stuff like that I mean is what it is now. So they ended up killing a couple she did, they kill one for sure and, like they do, they threw it on like instagram and stuff, and like the ranch that they poached it off of knew where the picture was. They, I mean, they know, you know, and then come find out and you know, us fish and wildlife's calling me and so, man, I'd, I ain't telling you nothing, but you know, put me on the stand. I guess, whatever you know, get warrant for the phones, everything he needs in the phones. You know, nothing never really happened.

Speaker 1: 1:35:36

So really, you know you got enough money, things exactly, yeah, everything kind of go away.

Speaker 2: 1:35:41

Yeah, when you're buying a dozen sheep hunts a year, you're, you're probably all right yeah I'm sure you got some attorneys there there's nothing against them, you know. But then that's the thing, like it was turned on me for like quitting and like getting away from it, not wanting to go down to a ranch and get your head cut off.

Speaker 2: 1:35:56

Yeah, I was like I heard the dude, like my Spanish ain't great, but you know I heard the head's on the gate. That's all I got to hear. Yeah, you know, I got a big ass head. They're probably going to score mine out. You know, boone and crockett net, typical there. Uh-huh, you know and you know so get away from that. But then so after that, I, you know, I kind of met some people, other ranches and stuff, and you know, looking at doing my own thing, and you know just a few guys that either I'd hunted with that other guy with them, or other guys that seen I'd been down there wanting to go hunting, you know. And so I and I had one really good ranch that I still hunt on, great dude, I mean, he's hunted elk with me.

Speaker 2: 1:36:36

You know I've been to weddings and stuff in that family and and uh, anyway, um, it was, it was right. After that, it was like it was the same year, it was about a month after had a guy who wanted to go hunt and I said I got a place, you bring some cash, we'll go hunt a deer hunt. You know, pay that guy If you kill one. You know, I don't, I didn't really care for anything at the time We'll shoot a deer anyway. So we didn't really name drop.

Speaker 2: 1:37:04

But, um, we was hunting this ranch kind of along this kind of busy highway and uh, one of the hills that we was up glassing on, we, you know, me and the ranch owner guy and a kid I had driving me and stuff we climb up on the hill and we're sitting there glassing and we'd heard of a good deer in there. And so, uh, sitting there, and all of a sudden we hear some gunshots over by the, over by the highway. My god, and that's where the deer were supposed to be. Like, coming from, I'm like, ah, man, they probably just got our deer poached, you know. And uh, it was far enough away, couldn't really tell how many shots were research shots, and uh, so I, you know, and luckily I left the hunter, like the ranch owner and stuff, there on the hill and me and the driver went down. So we'll go check and see if they're poaching deer or whatever, because it happens all the time, you know, and uh, so we get over there and and uh, you know there's the highway and then the berm and the fence, and our ranch road was just inside the fence, so we didn't go out on the road, we was right along the fence there.

Speaker 2: 1:38:02

I get over there and hop the fence and like, immediately I see something like on the road, walk up there and there's three dudes laying there, shot to death, really, laying in the grass. One dude's still spitting and coughing and, you know, shot in the head, and I'm like holy fuck, you know, and that guy's literally two of them are dead, dead and one of them's coughing, dying. And I wave at Martina and say, come on, like you know, know, come check it out, whatever. I don't know who you call or whatever how this happens. And he was having a hard time getting over the fence or whatever, and comes walking up and I hear a truck coming and I'm like well, I better wave them down. You know, I don't know who these guys are.

Speaker 2: 1:38:38

You know, whatever the situation is, truck comes over the hill and I can see them like standing in the back of the truck and there's like dudes in the back with guns and stuff and they come over and as soon as they see me they just mash on it, just start hauling ass. I don't know why, but my first instinct was jump and the grass was real tall cane grass. And I took off running and jumped on my belly and, right as I hit the ground, just pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop right over the top of us. And I don't, I don't, can't remember where um louise was standing or whatever. And uh, anyway, I mean, they drove past, shot 15, 20 times, right, I mean hurt him right over top of us, and uh, tires squeaching past us, going to a stop, you know, and I didn't know where to stand up and whatever. And I said, just stand up, start waving. I'm like they're not after me, I don't think, you know. And yeah, sure shit, I stand up and they I see the guy, I mean they're only 60 yards away and the dudes in the truck like drop the guns.

Speaker 2: 1:39:37

And uh, louise comes out running and he's, you know, scared to death, little tiny kid, rightfully so, yeah. And he kind of goes out, you know, hands up and stuff, and and uh, I can hear him, you know, hands up and stuff, and I can hear him, you know, yelling and talking, and at first it was like, oh mad. Well, then I can hear him saying sorry, sorry, sorry, and the one guy you know puts his gun on. They drop the tailgate, puts the gun on the tailgate and comes walking over and his hand's up and stuff too. And I kind of walk over there and he's like sorry, bro, I was like what and like none of them had very good english and and uh, so we had him get the story from him and basically they it was some guys that were I don't know if they were like raping women or something, but they was like moving some guys across the border and was kidnapping the women like shitbag dudes.

Speaker 2: 1:40:21

So they captured them or whatever, and went out on the road and shot them. When they come back, you know, they turned around, they see me standing there and they thought I was one of them because they that guy that was like coughing, he was shot in the guts and stuff you know, and so they didn't know if he was still alive they thought you were the dude.

Speaker 2: 1:40:37

They were trying to kill like you guys didn't figure that out like real quick, like a 5-2 mexican, you know, I got like a bino harness on and my bad, yeah, I mean we're good, we're good, that's a close one damn dude like and I'm done. Yeah, I'm still been going back, but yeah, you know it was an accident. I guess we'll just so. They were like sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, like the best english sorry you ever heard out of one of them guys, you know you're cool, we're cool this we're cool this is no harm, no foul, right?

Speaker 2: 1:41:10

Yeah, and yeah, we got back to the hill and I go walking up there and I was still kind of, you know, dazed a little bit out of it and go walking up the hill and they're like, we heard some shots, you guys shoot anything. And we said like shot a rabbit or something you know. And then didn't tell them and, yeah, went on, took a bunch of pictures and stuff. I mean it was, it was pretty. It was one of them, you know, the ones you hear about, you know, but now a few times, you know, because I'd go down there in like the summer, you know, trying to set up ranches and either set up the feeders and stuff like that and that's actually some of the worst time you know kind of be down there.

Speaker 2: 1:41:47

You know the the gangster games stop in the winter when it's cold and stuff. They're not too crazy oh really then a lot of the time they know that hunting's going on, you know, and them ranches know, the hunters are around and yep and they you know they clean it up best they can, or whatever, and and and, realistically, they're really respectful about a lot of it, you know they know you're there to hunt and yeah, you know they're getting money out of it.

Speaker 1: 1:42:07

Yeah, they're making.

Speaker 2: 1:42:08

And that's the other thing too. Like a lot of people are scared, you know, I mean you, surely you can get in the wrong situation, obviously you know. But they're not going to be whacking, no americans. No, I'm not trying to. That brings a lot of heat, yeah, yeah, they, you know they ain't kidnapping you for ransom or nothing. You know, especially now daddy trump's in there, you know, know, and that was the thing that first. You know the first term of Trump's man, it was down.

Speaker 1: 1:42:31

Oh really.

Speaker 2: 1:42:32

There wasn't much going on, you know it was. Crime was down pretty good, especially right on the border type stuff, you know. I mean obviously down you know, further inland and whatnot. They're fighting all the time.

Speaker 2: 1:42:43

But you know, one time I it was the summer I was coming down this road and like I haul ass on the dirt roads and stuff and cooking, and I come past an Army guy that's kind of like backed into a spot, you know, and like a Humvee Army dude and blow past him and I just wave and they come around and they don't really have lights and sirens and stuff, but he's like flicking his lights and old ass humvee, like he ain't out, he ain't catching me, and so I just yeah, fuck that guy, you know, yeah, and obviously they they radio, because I come around the corner and they got like four of them parked in the road sideways and I come there was kind of like it was like an intersection.

Speaker 2: 1:43:19

I don't think they knew which way I was coming from because as I come, I mean I'm coming to a bounce and stop in the truck and and and immediately them guys with them turret guns on the top of them, humvees, just turn them right on me and just see that guy. Oh shit, my bad dude, it's like I was fucking with that guy.

Speaker 2: 1:43:38

Yeah, this guy's real, real good and yeah I mean hands up in the cab and they're walking down.

Speaker 2: 1:43:42

All of them got pulling guns and shit and I'd heard about before before a lot of them dudes didn't have. They don't have enough bullets for everyone, like the military is kind of like low funded, especially out in the shit. You know, and this kid I mean had like I don't know 15 year old looking kid comes running up to me and I seen him rack his head like a, like an older m2 or something. I seen him racket like as he's running up to me and he puts it right inside of my head really and I I seen him and he doesn't even have a mag in the gun. There's not even a magazine in the gun at all and I seen him racket. So I was like we ain't even got a damn bullet in it and so he's up there and I just like flipped him off. You know, like I mean put it like right inside of my head and I just like turned it to my forehead and was like pushing into him and stuff and he was all yelling.

Speaker 2: 1:44:28

You know, in Spanish, and at that time I pretend I don't know any Spanish type of deal. You know, oh for sure. And I was just screaming and that kid's the one holding me up pointing and got a damn bullet in the gun. You know, this is the Wild West. Oh yeah, no, it can be crazy that you know what. You know guys that want to go hunting and stuff. You're not going to see any of that. Yeah, you know, if you want to, we can go. It's just. You know we take a detour and go see a body, you know, and make some calls, but you know it's, it's perfectly safe down there is.

Speaker 1: 1:44:59

What experience are we looking for? Yeah, you want the full mexico experience.

Speaker 2: 1:45:03

Yeah, exactly, we can do it yeah, exactly I mean, god, some of them deals in town. Um, a couple year or year before last I was real fortunate, the, the ranch owner I work with, you know, selling some sheep hunts and stuff. He let me shoot a sheep on his ranch and I like to go down, like christmas day, you know, and and hunt that week between the years with some of my other clients for deer and stuff, and so that's when I was going to do my sheep hunt. Well, christmas night, um, one of the guides that worked for him didn't catch his ride to come down to town, to come out to the ranch the next morning. So I'll just go grab him, you know, a couple hours.

Speaker 2: 1:45:37

He lives right up on the border and uh, there's a couple of us get in the truck and drink beer driving up to the, you know driving up to town to grab him, and and we get to town and as soon as we get into town it's Christmas night and it's dead. That's weird. We pull into Wedo's house and we're sitting there drinking beer. It takes them forever, nothing happens. Quick down there, everyone's pretty relaxed, it's Christmas night, he's saying bye and stuff. So we're sitting there and all of a sudden just the gunfire starts outside, just pow, pow, pow, pow, pow, and then just boom, big booms. And I mean I got a video on my phone I think I've showed you. It's like nine minutes long and it's just constant pow, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. Car's on fire, cops running all over and shit. All right time to go.

Speaker 2: 1:46:24

We load up and get back to go back head towards town, go back to the ranch and uh, the next morning there's there's like a local radio deal and they'll tell all the shit that happened overnight and how many people died and whatever happened, you know. And so we, we was waiting for the radio and turned it up. So, like dude, there had to have been some bodies on that deal. I mean it was, it was no bullshit like 22 minutes of straight gunfire and fires and they was popping cars off, blowing up cars and stuff. Like dude, they had to have got some people. Like two guys died, like two mafia guys died.

Speaker 2: 1:46:57

That's it Like yeah, that's it. And I don't know if you can quite see it in that one video. I mean, you guys have seen it overseas and stuff. When they come out shooting they're doing this number. You know they ain't naming it nothing, man Just spraying and praying.

Speaker 2: 1:47:11

Oh yeah like shooting in the sky half the time you know, that's how, like you know, most of the time the real bad shootings are the random people that get whacked, you know, across the town and stuff or whatever. There was one town down there like a bunch of kids got it all just happened to be in like a schoolyard and a fight was like six miles across town. And another, you know, very unfortunate, but luckily they shoot a lot of FMJs down there. So I mean, I think all them kids there might have been one that like got killed immediately or something, but most of them were all right, taking them FMJs ain't doing much, you know, but they was like six miles away and took a pile of bullets, you know. You know that shit gets out of hand, you know. Oh for sure, that's what you know. The worst part of all that is kind of the collateral.

Speaker 1: 1:48:04

Usually is, especially when gangs are going at our rivals and they're just spraying and praying.

Speaker 2: 1:48:08

They're catching people in their own homes and driving and things like that, usually the collateral damage that comes with it. Yeah, and that's where you know. Obviously it's a bad rap, but that's the only time people really get up and up about trying to stop it or trying to change or you know stuff like that and we can stop it before that happens too.

Speaker 1: 1:48:27

It would be the nice part, For sure, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:48:33

What's the uh wildest hunt that comes to mind as far as what I mean, yeah, what?

Speaker 1: 1:48:38

category. Yeah fuck, I don't know what's, what's, what's like one of the most memorable, just wild, chaotic hunts that you've done, guided or done personal, um, I mean, okay, have you ever had any near-death experiences on hunts?

Speaker 2: 1:48:55

uh, no, no, not really. I mean um, nothing crazy. I mean I've had like some lions jump out of trees like trying to grab their tail, and you know, some bears come out of holes or whatever, you know chasing the dogs. But yeah I don't really think them are real close. You know, nothing's, nothing's gonna happen really at that point. You know, we went to, went to africa a couple years ago hunting elephants. Oh, how was that? We was trying to the guy I was with like we wanted that either charging charging okay and uh.

Speaker 2: 1:49:27

So we, we hunted a few days and you put in. You put in some miles, you know, hunting for your range, elephants and stuff, and and uh, hiking and getting in there a lot of times. We got in a couple times on some groups of elephants and you'd be surprised how you can't see them.

Speaker 2: 1:49:42

Yeah, get into some of that thick shit and you can't see nothing. You, you can't. You know. You know one of the times we couldn't we thought the elephant was big enough that we wanted was in there, but we didn't know where the other ones were. Like they was around us if they, you know, take off charging, if we're. You know, the guy I was with was like that's, that's what we're here for. And you know that. The ph guy. I've become real good friends with him and hunted with him a bit and and uh, you know he was pretending that he was going along with that, but at the same time he can't.

Speaker 2: 1:50:10

He can't be, you know, expecting that or whatever you know, but I mean that'd be cool. The you know we got in there and shot that elephant like 60 yards or whatever that's close. Yeah, that was cool, you know, I mean I gotta put a bullet in a live elephant, you know, for for nothing really I feel like an elephant is the one animal I don't know if I would hunt or not.

Speaker 1: 1:50:30

I've heard so many. I've heard guys say once you hunt an elephant, that's, there's nothing that tops it. But at the same time, like I don't know, I feel like if I had the opportunity I would go, but I don't know, I just don't know. I think that's that's my one, the one animal on my list.

Speaker 2: 1:50:43

I'm like well, so so kind of backing up on that. Like the, you know the elephant hunt gets a bad rap over there, obviously, for sure you know it's a sensitive subject. So where we was hunting before you, you know before you book an elephant hunt or whatever and get the paperwork and stuff they have to, part of the money you pay goes to like a census on the elephants in that concession area and so that river valley is supposed to hold 20 000 elephants. They flew it and you know they're not even telling you the right number on the low side and they come back and said there was like 48 000.

Speaker 2: 1:51:17

Well, they was only letting us have one bull elephant you know permit and the guy was with like like I was going to try and shoot a tuskless and you know stuff like that for fun type of deal, because you can't really bring them but there's nothing really to bring back, you know. But at the same time you know the money's going into the place and anyway. So when we get there hunting, we're driving around and we we got elephants. Every day We've seen elephants every day. We got into a herd one day of like two, 50, really right in the middle of them had like a little yearling bull charge the truck and and uh, had some cows like squealing at us and stuff yeah, I mean they know what's up, you know when you're there to hunt them, you know there's most likely not a big bull in with them, giant.

Speaker 2: 1:51:55

You know herds and uh, but we had to go through them and just kind of ease through them, you know. But we've run into them everywhere all day and, like you, go through patches of thatopani and stuff that they've just decimated because there's so many elephants in there. Yeah, well then you know everyone's mad about killing the elephant or whatever, but obviously that place is set to. It has double the elephants that it's supposed to hold.

Speaker 1: 1:52:19

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 1:52:20

You know. So we hunted there for like well two weeks or so, hunted a bunch of stuff. I got a coup d'oeuvre. We was hunting leopards trying to hunt crocs. You know, never really got. Had like kind of messed up, had too many baits out for leopards and so we had. We had a leopard like on every bait but like the giant male that we had cameras of, he was just bebopping. We just never outpicked him. Had three leopards on a bait in the daylight. You know it was pretty cool and, uh, probably the coolest thing that whole deal. There was a giant lion that come through because there was no, there's no buffalo in the area okay, and was you?

Speaker 2: 1:52:55

know, was there to hunt everything, you know, whatever we could. And, uh, immediately realizing there's no buffalo in the area, so there's got to be a lion. Well before we even seen him had him on camera. They was trying to get a permit for him. It had already been used up, so they was trying to use the next year's one, whatever. Anyway, finally we got him on camera and he was a good lion for a free-range lion. You know, you see them. A free-range lion looks like a meth head, has no mane, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:53:21

They're all beat up.

Speaker 2: 1:53:33

Yeah, you see a guy killing a lion. Looks like a maybelline commercial, all poofed out and permed. You know that's a, that's a high fence lion, yeah anyway this line had some real good mane on him.

Speaker 2: 1:53:37

You know, giant, giant cat. I mean the tracks on that things are, you know, impressive, huge. Anyway, we had him. We pull into this water hole and we was real close. You know they was about to green light us to shoot it and they'd figure out the paperwork if we had. It was basically like, if we had the chance to shoot him, shoot him and that'll help the paperwork push along, and was kind of on the fence about doing that.

Speaker 2: 1:53:55

So we pull into this water hole where he'd been, and as we're pulling in there, all the monkeys are in the trees and the birds are quiet, like he's here. So we, we creep down to the water. He's not on the water. We're checking the camera. I walk over the, the dike of the pond there, just check. I've walked following his track, come over the corner and I I didn't really see him, but I seen him, the color of him in this bush, and he roared at like 100 yards and felt it in my chest just, and I mean directed at me, like he's seen me. You know, I'm just backed up. You know them guys heard it and they're like grabbing guns. No, no, no, no, no, no. Like he's in a bad spot, like he was in some thick shit, you know, and he already knew we were there. You know we no chance you're really getting a shot in there on him, you know, and that's that's all you want if he's gonna come out of there. But that was then crazy. We could hear him roaring at night from camp and stuff on like another side of the river. We couldn't hunt, you know. They could be five, eight miles away and you're hearing them. Nothing piped off a bow distance. I felt it in my chest, you know. So. So that was, you know. That was probably the coolest part of that. But then, you know, we killed a lot of stuff. I killed big, old, old giraffe and a giant kudu, 60-inch kudu, free-range kudu was the biggest one that outfit has ever had, you know. And anyway, we got done with that.

Speaker 2: 1:55:18

Well, the people I went with we went to like Victoria Falls and did like some touristy stuff. Well, we decided to go to Chobe National Park, to um chobi national park. It's like the second, third biggest park in africa. We book a deal to go over there and as we're driving in you can tell the difference. There's no grass, the trees are bare. There ain't shit living there.

Speaker 2: 1:55:38

We drive through the park for hours, dusty roads, hundreds of vehicles and stuff. There ain't nothing. I mean there's like a couple impala by like a salt lick. Really, what was the difference? There's nothing there. There's no feed. Couple in Impala by like a salt lick. Really, what was the difference? There's nothing there. There's no feed. You know we're out there where we're hunting. They're burning. You know they have water wells that they're pumping water for the animals and stuff. You go to this national park where there's no hunting. It's like 15 bucks a head to get in. You know how many people does that take to equal what we just paid to shoot an elephant? Yeah, and there's nothing there. Then none of that money of the tourist fees is getting to the ground driving through.

Speaker 2: 1:56:15

I mean it's like hard pack red clay okay there ain't no grass, yeah we drive around for like four or five hours in there and seen one elephant, big old bull, wandering around aimlessly like I'm looking for tracks and stuff off the road. There ain't, there's nothing really down by. We finally get over by like the river, that's like the border of the park, and there's a bunch of buffalo in the river and they live out in the river on like some grass islands and stuff and there's a couple warthogs, a couple impalas and that's it it just shows you the difference where the money's spent.

Speaker 1: 1:56:46

Oh, 100.

Speaker 2: 1:56:47

Well then, people are so naive to think you know, I was talking to people the whole time like I, I wasn't really wearing camo, I can't remember, I had, like my bino harness on, you know what's that. And uh, so we tell them we're there hunting and numerous times people get pissed right off how dare you, you know over your hunt. And then you explain it and a couple guys I met in that park and was taught telling them. So look at this. And then look at these videos from where I was just hunting.

Speaker 1: 1:57:11

Look at the difference in the, the habitat and the animals, the numbers of animals, you know, oh yeah yeah, I mean we had we've shooting something every day yeah you know whether he's being picky or whatever we happened upon.

Speaker 2: 1:57:22

You know you never know one of them. You know it's free range zimbabwe. Whatever you're going to come across, you know you kind of got to be ready to shoot kind of whatever you see. You know if it's a good quality animal or whatever.

Speaker 2: 1:57:34

Like you know, south africa, like I want this, this, this, this, this and for sure over here, and there's nothing against that either, you know, because that's the thing too, not a lot of them animals, you know, there's no spring buck, there's no gems buck, there's no, nothing like that up there, um, but uh, there's just just a difference that people don't even know. You know, everyone's so emotionally attached to, oh for sure, animals, you know, and I get even the giraffe, you know. I mean both killed one and the shit that comes with. That is just crazy. But like my, my giraffe, they're crazy hard to hunt yeah like every time we'd see one you.

Speaker 2: 1:58:09

They was either moving and you can't see them. Their legs are below the leaves of the tree, the body mass is the leaves of the tree, and then there's just their little head peeking up half the time, that's if you got the clearance to be able to look yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:58:22

Yeah, if you're far enough away or close enough. It's amazing. I watched one walk behind brush in it. Yeah, I mean, there's a giraffe direct gone. Yeah, and you're, and I have a video of it and you get to see the next. Yeah, and the whole animal's completely gone, and it's even when they run, I mean they look goofier in hell like a 12 year old kid in the growth spurt and they're quiet they're hauling ass

Speaker 2: 1:58:41

I mean they'd look like they're just, but they're moving. Yeah, the strides are big and I really wanted a giraffe pretty bad going over there and and, uh, we put some miles tracking giraffes, you know, and trying to get a good bull, and and then we got in on a good one and uh, the herd he was with there was babies in there, and uh, so basically you know, you're not shooting one that's in a, in a herd like that, because obviously he's reproducing, yep, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:59:05

So you want to go after one that's in a herd that doesn't have babies with them, you know yeah so we finally found that one and come to find that that bull had killed like three giraffes like that month, you know, before we got there. So you know it's a great one to take. But then it's you know the emotional part of people getting pissy about it and you don't understand like how many, how many lives did we save and how many more giraffes are going to come because we got rid?

Speaker 1: 1:59:33

like the hunting community or just anything in general, when it comes to the image of what anti-hunters and animal rights activists see versus what we see as a hunter and granted like. I just watched a video this morning and it was like these dudes strapped tannerite to a pig and turned it out of a cage and shot it and blew it up. It's like we need one. Do we need to put?

Speaker 1: 1:59:56

that on the internet we have to put. Just because we we do it doesn't mean you have to post it. Yeah, and so you have. Then then you have that right, that's that's what. And this dude, the page had that's the only post it's made it had. It just got posted 100 000 views immediately. So you know it's getting fed to all the wrong people. Yeah, and so then for guys that go and we hunt overseas or even here in the States, the amount of money that we spend as a hunter going to these concessions, going to these ranches or whatever it may be, this is where the anti-hunters and the animal rights activists to have no idea, like the money that they're donating or whatever they're doing to help besides bitching and painting over things and whatever they, their money's never going to actually helping these animals.

Speaker 1: 2:00:45

It never touches, especially in foreign countries like africa. It's so corrupt. But when you take a hunter and he's going to hunt a mature bull, the the oldest, I mean, our goal is to take, take the most mature animal out of these herds right which is spread its seed, it's usually on its way out. They're a problem animal, whatever it may be. But that money that we're spending directly in these communities is making an impact.

Speaker 1: 2:01:10

And then meanwhile you have these anti-hunters with animal rights that are doing nothing productive for the animal except for throwing a bitch fit, yeah, and so there's this huge disconnect. But then, like at the same time and I've I've talked about and I voice it I don't agree with like how chickens are in cages, how animals are, are treated like farm animals, like these cows that have hoof rot and they're just nasty, these pigs that are just living their life and slop, like for me as a human, like I feel that that's that's inhumane, to have an animal living like that. So like I agree on a lot of things that they're protesting and and trying to like shut down, but at the same time, like it's mass production, it's I I think there could be better ways of doing it and treating animals, but the fact that they're so against going and hunting an animal.

Speaker 2: 2:01:57

That's where I'm like okay it's all lumped together a hundred percent. It's never. You know it's blanket statements on animal cruelty or whatever. You know a hundred percent it doesn't. You know it's not situation by situation, basis exactly that. That poor ass elephant we've seen at the park had nothing to eat. Dude, he's wandering around. He ain't got no friends, he ain't. You know, there ain't no one around. What's?

Speaker 1: 2:02:16

more cruel than slowly starving an animal because you could take photos of it, yeah, or you have a concession that has 40 000 elephants on it one a year is all they're letting us shoot you know it's the same with lions and leopards.

Speaker 1: 2:02:29

I mean, you see, you get so crucified over anything that's a disney animal. If it's ever been in a disney movie, god forbid. But it's like these. These people are so uneducated because they see this guy with a lion, free range lion or whatever, and they're like fuck, piece of shit, and they call you every name in the book they were wish death upon your children and everything else.

Speaker 1: 2:02:49

But like, what have you done to help that animal? Because that guy just spent 25, 30, 50 grand on a concession that's helping preserve water, food, fencing, anti-poaching, all the stuff that your money spent to actually help the community, help create jobs and a lot of the shit that we're killing giraffes, buffalo, elephants that's all going to these people that don't have a pot to piss in, elephants, that's all going to these people that don't have a pot to piss in. So then it's like, okay, you're gonna say you're in crucified trophy hunters which have a bad rep because of idiots posting stupid shit and killing things in humane way, but it's like that's actually helping more of for the animal, the community, the people that are living in and around it. Then you, oh yeah, protesting and holding some f as fur as whatever their little slogan is, and it's like red paint on them.

Speaker 2: 2:03:41

Yeah, it's it's the term trophy hunting has just got such a bad stigma around it. I mean I'm a trophy hunter. I mean I you know I love the meat, stuff like that. But like certain things you go hunting and where where are you wrong? You know you almost have to defend yourself if that's what you're hunting for, is is a trophy.

Speaker 1: 2:03:58

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:03:59

You know, hunting's a sport. What sport out there does not keep track of score and there's winners and losers, or trophies, yeah, or trophies, yeah, Everyone, I mean your trophy cool Florida just got another Stanley Cup. You know it's and but. But the trophy hunting term has gone so far as immediately people say trophy hunting, and then it's like you're not eating the meat, You're not taking any part of the animal.

Speaker 2: 2:04:21

Yep, they're not a dang. Maybe some pigs in Texas that I've shot, they get thrown away, but there ain't a thing I've ever shot or been around people killing. That doesn't get cut up. That elephant there was 200. People come out of the woods like randomly, like ladies with bowls, bowls on their head, grabbing a hunk of elephant meat, and walking through the woods like dog.

Speaker 1: 2:04:41

We got a strap to their chest, so they got a leopard bait, like right where you're going and yeah and the only thing left from that elephant was the blood.

Speaker 2: 2:04:49

Some, you know, blood stain on the dirt and like half the stomach contents I've heard that everything yeah, you know, guts, we brought some bones back, we brought the whole skull back. That's the whole skull got boiled out and brought back. You know it's pretty silly elephant skull.

Speaker 2: 2:05:03

Uh, they mostly like buried it in dirt and like beetled it and stuff it is that's a pretty poor job, but yeah, africa well then the best part is we shot it in the side of the head and there's no bullet holes in the skull. We got back so they got one somewhere. I don't know. You know, you don't know. I got a big old leg bone off the the forearm. They're carved at the house it's. I mean, it's crazy cool. You know you're not getting much from. We got a bunch of elephant hide and stuff back and made some cool stuff out of it.

Speaker 1: 2:05:29

But yeah, they don't. They don't get it, man. It's very unfortunate because I feel that if, if the the anti-hunting community v the pita lovers and all that shit, like I'm, like, I'm I've, when it comes to like harpooning these whales and shit, they're drag, netting them and and like, dude, I'm, I'm with you, yeah, I'm, I'm with you, and some people like fuck, there was the law, the lines over there, you know there's, there's, there's some things where it's like, okay, you know we're just massacring animals and I'm a hundred percent for it, but at the same time it's like then you look at, they look at us and they lump us all into it, that we're just out here just murdering these animals, just to murder them, and don't get me

Speaker 1: 2:06:10

wrong. There's a lot of piece of shit, people out there that are just doing dumb things and, as a hunter, we in outdoorsman we don't support that. Right and it's it's. It's very unfortunate of where the media, where social, is taking it and obviously it doesn't help when we're posting a bear getting arrowed in a tree and then hitting every branch on the way out. It's like do we have to post that type of stuff? It's just fuel for these antis because that's all they see. They don't see the money you spent, the tags, the time, the into the animals, the dogs, everything that goes into a hunt. They don't see any of that. They don't see the sport in it, which it's not sporty at all. I get it. Some people put stuff out there and I'm like yeah, wouldn't do that because it just doesn't seem sporty to me. But to each their own. I mean, everybody's got their preference.

Speaker 2: 2:06:55

When I just don't think a lot of them people have ever run into someone that can either, you know, explain it and keep emotion out of it. You know, have like a real conversation. You know I've. You know I've sat next to people on airplanes, restaurants. You know I've run into random people all over. You know I don't wear a lot, I don't like I do a lot of hunting, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:07:15

And I feel like every time you have a real conversation with someone and you can, you know, eloquently present some facts, you know, and rebuttal some arguments without, you know, too much emotion, I feel like most people I've ever talked to you can swing them a good way and they understand it a lot more.

Speaker 2: 2:07:31

You know, especially if you can. You know, I sat by a guy on a plane from like Salt Lake to Boston once and I was going through photos on my phone, you know, and when he first sat down I had something on, like a deer on my shirt or something, and he basically said, oh, this is going to be a long flight. I said I'm not scared to. You know, it's not a debate or nothing. You know, if you can have an adult conversation and keep your emotions out of it and present facts and you know I had pictures on my phone, was going through it by the end of the time I mean he was talking about coming hunting, you know, and tell him, you know what we do with, you know, with kids or with the vets or new guys. You know, that's some of my favorite stuff For sure.

Speaker 2: 2:08:11

Seeing them new kids hunting and learning that.

Speaker 1: 2:08:14

Popping piss bags in their face. Taking bites of the heart because we told her, told her, told her sister did it yeah, by the way, I don't know if we ever told you, we told kiki that you, you did it no problem, and she uh oh, that's one of my favorite videos on the phone.

Speaker 2: 2:08:31

I've showed people that I'm like oh my god, are you serious? It is a savage, savage. You know that's a rite of passage here. Oh yeah, that was, I mean, like you said, one of my favorite hunts. Like that was one of my favorites seeing your daughter how nervous she was Because we just wanted to shoot a doe. You know that buck was down there and he was wounded and busted up and I'm like yeah, just shoot that one talking about it.

Speaker 1: 2:08:53

The other day she she was telling one of her friends and, uh, she went and got the shed because she had a little. Oh yeah, so she goes and grabs the shit, like this is one that I found because they're like comparing it and she's like, yeah, I missed a buck. Or she goes I, they wanted me to shoot a buck and I go, yeah, but you missed. And just ragging on her because you know she's a little, she's a little turd, so she's always giving me shit anytime she can.

Speaker 1: 2:09:14

She's like I was nervous and it was in the bushes and I'm like you had a shot, but yeah, but like that little core memory right there for her, for this little 10 year old girl, I mean oh yeah, she's, that was, that was.

Speaker 1: 2:09:29

I mean, oh yeah, the greatest. And she ends up shooting a doe and it was, it's. And that's where I feel a lot of people lose track, especially with social, social media and where we're at now, in these days, because everything's got to be this giant boon and crock or whatever. And I love to tell people it's like when you're getting your kids out there and you've been with both my daughter shot her first elk with you and then my youngest shot her first deer with you. I mean, dude, we've had some incredible times together. Those are some of the most incredible and memorable hunts for me and I know you too, because we I mean we, we talk and we laugh and I mean, dude, like setting the shed out there for her to go find me bro like she's.

Speaker 2: 2:10:05

We don't tell sis that yeah and so you know like cool she was acting. When she walked back like she did, she thought she that's cool.

Speaker 1: 2:10:12

Yeah, she's like was that? And then we get the truck. She's like dad. I'm like why the hell are you? You act like this? That's how she is, bro. It's so funny because she actually tries to act so stoic and hard. I'm like kennedy, it's okay. Then dad, it's the biggest shot I've ever seen it. I'm like why were you acting? Like this she picks it up like yeah, yeah, cool bro, okay, it's all right, hashtag it's not a brownie or anything you know so but like people don't realize.

Speaker 1: 2:10:35

Like just get your kids out there and have fun, oh yeah, and, and stop chasing the inches at first, even for guys. I mean we've taken vets out that for their first hunts and stuff, and it's just, it's just experiencing it and getting out there and just getting getting something on the ground right and and I feel with social media it's evolved us into everything's got to be this trophy 200 inch deer, four inch bull. Now, if you're out there and you're some seasoned guy and you're shooting little spikes, just because you're like, oh, it's meat in the freezer, that that's, or you're shooting shit for your youtube video and that that's where I have a hard time drawing it, because you're just you're doing it for content and to me I have a problem with that. But, dude, if you're you're, if you're a beginner hunter and I got got buddies of mine that are getting out of the military, not getting into it like, what do you think is, do you? I'm like, if you've shot one like that, no, burn it, burn it down.

Speaker 1: 2:11:23

Dude, enjoy the time you're with your son, create a memory right and it could be as something as so simple as a doe or a cow, elk. That'll change someone's life, and I mean dude, you and I've witnessed it so many different times bringing kids and vets and my own kids out, and it's, it's the greatest experience man just being able to get you know some of my favorite hunts that you talked about.

Speaker 2: 2:11:44

I've been on some of the, you know, highest end dollar hunts and biggest animals out there and you know that was great at the time. You know, and I've I've really had a lot of time to think the last couple years and you, you know why you're doing what you're doing. You know I got to a point where shooting something I didn't you know, I just shot some cool shot you know, shoot a 200 inch deer, that was great.

Speaker 2: 2:12:03

You know that's kind of what I'm expecting of myself to do. And you know, last couple of years some of them guys that's hunting elk with me, you know died in sight. That guy lost it, crying, hugging me up and down. You know that's why you do it had a father and son hunting elk. He was in like each side of a bush called raghorn bulls. Just passed them, pass and pass them. They both shot one. They died 70 yards apart out in the same meadow. Yeah, you know, stuff like that means so much more than a guy shooting a 400 inch elk, 250 deer yep and cool drop 500 grand on it.

Speaker 2: 2:12:39

Yeah like, and I know some of them guys you know I've had guys kills stuff and they're excited about every damn thing you shoot, you know for sure, and you know there are, definitely are some of them guys at that level that still are hunting to hunt, you know, and not just checking a box, you know. But uh it, the last couple years I've really noticed that I'm I'm more of like a situational hunter. I've been chasing, you know, I kind of wanted I like to do like the slams and like one of each thing. You know I'm about done with my ducks, I've done all my turkeys and I've done all my deer, you know, and stuff of that. But like I want, like the situation, you know, like I wanted a white tail out of the tree, the you know drawback man, stop him whack yeah yeah, got that.

Speaker 2: 2:13:18

You know stuff like that. That. That starts to mean a lot more than just shooting something. You know I mean I've been fortunate enough to kill a lot of animals, but you got to find a purpose to why you're doing the next one. For sure you know if it's not, if it's just to check the box or to just be hunting or to put it on social media.

Speaker 2: 2:13:35

I mean, I've been off social media for five years now you're lucky best you know I've killed more shit since I got off the gram than when I did before. You know. That's just that. Ain't that ain't where it's at that's where I'm at now.

Speaker 1: 2:13:47

Mine, instead of like me personally, cool, yeah, I love getting out and putting something on the ground, but doing it with the kids and like, just just watching them. And then, and you know, and it's the after part for me as well, you know, because you know we had the rack out back and, dude, I made the initial cuts for keiki, and here you go, and she sat there and just skinned that whole thing, dude, I brought it in the house and I was actually recording a podcast that day. I was like, hey, I can't, dude, I brought it in the house and I was actually recording a podcast that day. I was like, hey, I can't, like, here, here's the cuts and follow the lines. And, bro, I came down and she had that whole thing, like one, the whole leg, processed out.

Speaker 1: 2:14:26

And she just and she still talks about now when her little friends go, she's like we have deer for dinner, we have my deer, can we have my deer? And that's every time she wants to feed her friends what she's, something that she's killed, and so to and for me, as like a father, I'm like, okay, yeah, this brings me more joy than me killing myself to try to kill some animals so I could take a grip and grin and put it on the internet that nobody gives a fuck about it. So. But instead it's like dude, I'm sitting here, she's got her little dog, we're freezing, she's hungry, she they get wet like they're all everything in between that comes with these trips like to me. And so, dude, I want to thank you personally because we've created some pretty awesome memories as a family up there just running around having fun.

Speaker 1: 2:15:05

But that's that's where I'm at, like I, I, you know with the kids, like yeah all day, like I want to just spend that time with them, create those memories, because those are dude, like we're going to be talking like her deer heads in the back in the garden right now, freaking buried out there because she wanted to keep this doe head, and I'm like I'm like it's a doe. And she's like, yeah, it's my first. I'm like done, I'm not even gonna argue. I'm like yeah, so she's got her. She's like I want to bury it. The ground the beetles will get.

Speaker 1: 2:15:30

I'm like yeah whatever you want to do and so, but like that, like something so simple to a little kid is it doesn't need to be some trophy animal. And that's where a lot I think a lot of guys actually screw up with kids because they they have that pressure and they want their kid to be able to hold some giant ass animal.

Speaker 2: 2:15:46

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:15:46

I know a guy that dude all his kids from their very first animal, all trophies like giant antelope, giant mule, deer, giant bulls, cause he, because he he gets these hookups and I'm like, where do your kids go from here? And they're shooting them in pivots, which there's nothing wrong with.

Speaker 1: 2:16:00

I'll shoot something out of a pivot all day but it's, you know, they've never worked for, they've never packed anything off of a mountain. They just roll up, load it in the bed of the truck to take a couple pictures with it, and that's all those kids know. So it's like from that point it's like, oh, you're screwed.

Speaker 2: 2:16:14

I mean, remember, after christy shot her out, we loaded in the truck. She's like this elk hunt ain't that hard yeah yeah tell that story.

Speaker 1: 2:16:22

Oh yeah, you're going arch republic yo yeah, yeah, we're going arch, arch republic next.

Speaker 2: 2:16:27

You'll see me and you back up to it, throw it in a hole in the back of the truck.

Speaker 1: 2:16:31

Yeah, in my defense for that one though dude, we've been on some hellacious hunts that blacktail in oregon with rob and then her bear hunt, so we've earned them, that's oh yeah, I told her you take the wins, take the wins it's not every day you're back at a truck up loading a bull up.

Speaker 2: 2:16:48

I was like take them where you get them hey, pack out challenge. Yeah I'll take those all day. Take them where you can. I mean that, like my moose year, that was just as nasty as you could get. I forgot you shot a moose. Yeah, the Alaska moose by myself, dude.

Speaker 1: 2:17:06

In fact, how long did it take you to pack? It was two days.

Speaker 2: 2:17:08

It was two days, two days of just packing. I mean, the whole hunt was as good as you could ask for as far as ease. Went up there on myself, drove up there, glassed him up, snuck in 35 yards, shot him. He walked off and didn't act, hit and I knew that first shot was money and I just kept giving him the arrows. You know, I put like one in him at like 105 jesus, and he, you know, went down and and got over there and he wasn't quite dead yet and had a little too much spunk in him, you know, and gave him another one.

Speaker 2: 2:17:37

And when I was shooting him I was noticing by that third, fourth arrow, I was like I'm not even like shaking and that's one of my moments that kind of hit me that when he died I had a Stan Potts breakdown. I mean I was 30 minutes before I could try to get a picture. You know it was that was tough, you, before I could try to get a picture, you know it was that was tough, you know. And then it took me seven hours to cut him up and get him in bags.

Speaker 2: 2:18:01

You know, by myself, 100%. No one wanted to go with me. You know, fucking, I'm going and drug the bags a little ways from the carcass. You know, right after I shot him, a bear come running by and that's kind of what actually got him out of his bed. The moose, I think.

Speaker 2: 2:18:15

Winded, winded, that bear and little puffball like look probably like a two-year-old grizz coming, okay, and I watched him run for five miles. He was scared to death when he caught wind of me. You know, yeah, but uh, but then, yeah, it was like two miles one way and took me eight trips getting him out, you know, and, and the hardest part was getting up on my feet because in that unit you couldn't debone the legs, and uh, so I got them out. When I got it back to fairbanks, um, the front legs were 130 pounds a piece, you know. And luckily, you know, luckily I'm bigger and can do that. And when I was walking back forth, I mean, you know me, I'm not no fitness king and cardio day, but you know me, like that's, we're here, that's what we're doing, you know.

Speaker 2: 2:18:57

I mean that was committed, that was ignorant right, that was as ignorant as you get, you know, two miles up a mountain and back down and crossing a river at the bottom, you know, and uh, that's alaska, that's that's what you're there. You know I couldn't have asked for I mean, I shot him the first day I was there, shot a 60 inch moose first day. You can't beat that that.

Speaker 1: 2:19:15

But I feel like so many of your adventures like and like, oh, just rolled up right there yeah, I'll take them.

Speaker 2: 2:19:22

Like I said, I'll take the wins. You know, yeah, um, I was, you know, fortunate to draw a bunch of stuff this year. You know, now you're lucky bastard, you know you gotta apply. I tell you all the time I know you can't draw if you don't apply.

Speaker 2: 2:19:33

I know that's like man. That's almost just as fun for me as playing that game and drawing a tag, compared to even going hunting. Yeah, like well, this is dumb, it's expensive. You know, like I have a couple tags this year I probably won't even spend any time on A couple deer tags in some other states. And why did I do that? I dropped $700 on trying to get a deer tag but I won I beat the system. I got got the tag.

Speaker 1: 2:19:55

Yeah, yeah, you know you got it pretty dialed. Well, if, dude, if people are looking because you do, you got some elk hunts, you got whitetail hunts, kind of all over. If people are looking to um, for some crazy adventures and and get on some animals, how do they get a hold of you?

Speaker 2: 2:20:11

um, I mean, you probably reach out through maybe you or something you know. It's probably easiest. I don't have any social media, my facebook. I don't do much at all. I do have a website, he hunt cocom. You know some stuff on there you think. I think it still works. I don't know, I don't know if I paid the guy to keep the website going, but there's some stuff on there. You know my idaho stuff. I I enjoy that place. I got up there is one of my favorite places in the world it's one of a kind man.

Speaker 1: 2:20:36

It is one of a kind. It is a special place. There's nowhere else.

Speaker 2: 2:20:39

I mean you can the variety and you know I mean, yeah, it's some easy outcomes and stuff, you know, but man, it's beautiful and it's a way hunting and land should be managed.

Speaker 1: 2:20:50

I think you know, yeah you definitely got some numbers on there. It's, it's fun. That's why, anytime you call, me. I'm like come on away, I'll be right, because there's nowhere else.

Speaker 2: 2:20:58

There's no mountains, that's yeah, no, it's, that's the best gentleman's elk hunt. You know it's a chess match elk hunt. It ain't you ain't outworking them. You know you gotta outthink them out. Yeah, it's a different, different concept, but that's a cool spot up there.

Speaker 1: 2:21:10

Yeah, yeah well, dude, I appreciate you swinging through town, man, yeah, yeah and uh, and sharing some stories and shooting the shit. We haven't.

Speaker 2: 2:21:17

We've been busy since damn, that's a deer hunt. Yeah, so I've been, I've been swamp working and stuff and yeah, we've been busy like that and all over the place. Yeah, still saving the one story for the end yes, okay, we.

Speaker 1: 2:21:33

You have tried to tell me this story for a while now and I've always told you, to save it, that you got beat up by a group of individuals.

Speaker 2: 2:21:40

Oh yeah no, I got the shit kicked out of me Bad like damn near to the hospital. So and I apologize ahead of time there's some non-political correct terms.

Speaker 1: 2:21:52

We'll bleep them.

Speaker 2: 2:21:52

We'll bleep them out, but no one of the Like you said I've been. You know I've shared this. Every once in a while it comes up and every time you're around you say no and you don't even want to hear it, because I've been saving it for this podcast for years, you know, but no, so anyway, back when I was working the oil field, I lived in a camp trailer, bought a brand new camp trailer, you know, and just lived in it. You know, apartments were expensive, whatever and lived in it.

Speaker 2: 2:22:16

Well, rather than always showering my little shower in the bathroom and stuff there, I'd, I'd go to the the gym every morning after work for and after work, work out, shower there at the gym locker room and stuff and go about my day. Well, one day. It's a big old rec center, you know, tons of people, big old pool and a bunch of kids and really shitty gym to work out if you're there just to lift or whatever, but anyway they. There's a, there's a place down the street, there's a bunch of mentally handicapped guys that would come and and play whatever there and stuff you know, and there's always around whatever you know.

Speaker 2: 2:22:48

Not a big deal.

Speaker 2: 2:22:49

One day I'm in the, I'm in the shower and it's like the stalls with the curtain and I'm in there all lathered up because I'm showering, you know like I'm getting ready there, like you know, people most showering in their swimming trunks, whatever. After the pool I'm butt naked showering, you know, getting ready for the day. I'm all lathered up, brushing my teeth, you know, and the shower curtain comes open. There's a big old, pot-gutted guy looking at me and and I said, hey, hold on just a minute, you know, I'm just you're in my shower.

Speaker 2: 2:23:13

I said hold on, just a minute, you know, I'm just you're in my shower. I said hold on, you know, and I get it, whatever, it's the one he uses, whatever. So I kind of shut the curtain I'm deep lathered up, you know, like mid-shampoo, I get, you know, and just whips it right back open. He's like you're in my shower. I said, man buddy, hold on. You know like, let me get like. And I'm holding him like at this point I'm like dude, I'm gonna get like yelled at for being naked in front of this guy and and his lips hanging out and shit, I'm gonna be in trouble anyway he naked?

Speaker 2: 2:23:43

no, he's in his swimming trunks, big old pot gutted, okay, down syndrome guy. And uh, anyway, I'm still I'm like trying to shower and holding him back and he starts like swinging at me like just kind of bitch slapping, and I kind of like push him. I'm like, god damn, you know, and I'm naked and he's, like you know, stinging, and I kind of push him. He comes in just throwing windmills and I took a couple and, like just kind of reaction, one just jabbed right in the lip, right to his back. Oh no, dude, I'm like in the lip, right to his back. Oh no, dude, I'm, I mean hit the ground, arms in the air on his back, like I'm about cleaned up, and I grab the towel and just throw it around me and I get down on by him, like holding his head up and also don't choke on his tongue and shit, god, it was that bad. Oh, dude, I mean like arms straight, done, you know. And uh, and he starts kind of twitching and shit and I'm like, fuck, I'm yell, help, you know. And because they got little handler guys that kind of towed him around, yeah, for me, where the fuck's these people?

Speaker 2: 2:24:45

And right then I look up and this other guy, other down syndrome guy comes in. He's like oh my god, you killed him. And I take a knee. I'm on my hands and knees, like over this guy, and I take a knee right to the forehead from this guy. Boom, just comes on a run and just like flying knees man, no, I mean rocks me and about. Then I'm kind of like on my hands and knees. Come to my hands and knees and I all I really remember was and there's like three of them that ended up coming after they start screaming. He's like you killed Billy or whatever. I remember I'm on my hands and knees and this guy's like on my back and he's like pushing down. Like this I'm trying to get up and God, them little bastards are strong and I like kind of fight to my feet and by this time my towels fell off and I'm taking shots and I'm hollering help, help. You know, and I'm you know. I mean you know they're like the flying monkeys in wizard of oz. Turn that scarecrow car.

Speaker 2: 2:25:43

This is pov and I'm hurting. I mean I could feel it's hurting. I mean I'm losing it. I took a couple to face and and and uh, took a couple. I was at one point I was down on my belly and took a couple stomps, you know, and there's like five, six of them and finally I just and they're all handicapped, all all down syndrome, big old, tough sons of bitches and I come up and finally I'm like it's, it's over and I just start whacking and I got a couple of them down and I mean I'm backing up and I'm butt ass naked and backing into like more of the locker room and I got knocked down again hard and there's like a wooden bench and I finally get up on it and at this point it's survival, you know, and I'm still hollering help. And, uh, I come to and just started whacking and I knocked five, six of them down and you know, and they're're crying and bleeding and shit.

Speaker 2: 2:26:38

And finally some dudes come running in and they like, grab me. And I'm hey, well, you know, I'm butt naked, yeah, mind you. And uh, they're like, hey, what the hell you doing, you know, beating up on these guys. I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, hey, whoa, no, I'm bloody, I got a swollen eye and shit. They're like helping. Some of them are crying, running out and uh, they kind of leave me alone for a second. I grab my clothes, throw pants on, I get out, get out the door, dude.

Speaker 2: 2:27:03

I'm out like yeah and I was like late for work and shit, dude, I go to work and I'm hurting. And uh, I remember I looked in, like my mirror before I walked into the office there and black eyes, bruise. Oh, dude, yeah, eyes swollen, shut busted lip, busted nose. And uh, well, I got at least going and tell him I can't. I think I lost my phone in it or something. So I go into the office and what the fuck happened to you? I was like, oh, we'll see. And uh, sitting in the office there back in my office and trying to clean up and bleeding all over and still getting dressed, you know.

Speaker 2: 2:27:38

And uh, one of the guys his wife, was a cop there in that town and uh, I can hear him all out there talking and he's like yeah, some dude like an oil field uniform come in and beat up a bunch of mentally handicapped dudes at the gym and I heard she was on speakerphone and I heard it and I could hear it all quiet out there. And this one dude. And then Pedro, he comes like peeking around the corner. He's like you at the gym today.

Speaker 2: 2:28:03

I'm like yeah, he's like dude, he's like I'll call the wife, they'll bring the cops. They're looking for you. I'm like fuck, yeah, like, go explain this one. So I had to go down to the cops and they was pissed like they was ready to beat me up anyway. You know, they heard I just beat up six pack of downsies and and, uh, I'm showing them, and I finally had to take my shirt off and show them.

Speaker 2: 2:28:25

I was bruised and I started hurting. I went to the hospital. I had like three bruised ribs, a cracked rib and like a cracked shoulder blade and shit. Yeah, I was. I was tore up some work on you, yeah, and that's like you know they was like you got to go apologize. I'm like, fuck that. Like I don't need the trauma coming back on them either. You know they probably forgot about it by now. You know I ain't got to see my face and pop back into tremors or something. Yeah, they have a relapse. Yeah, another fight on your head, oh, fight, oh yeah, just come back to windmill and I don't think I can take round two god bro.

Speaker 2: 2:28:59

Oh, it was bad. I didn't go to the gym for a while I don't blame you.

Speaker 1: 2:29:03

Oh, my god, I'm so glad we've saved this story. It's worth it through my face that's about as bad as you get. Yeah, there's not many people that can say they've been beat up by a group of down syndrome.

Speaker 2: 2:29:17

They say they're strong, they ain't shitting, they got it. I mean, they've been in a couple of scraps and that one whooped me bad.

Speaker 1: 2:29:30

Holy shit, that is yeah, yeah. Well, I guess I don't think we're gonna top that one yeah, that might get you canceled, so oh, no we're gonna, we're no, we're not going to go in live holy shit, dude that is hilarious, bro, yeah it wasn't funny at the time, but no god, no, it was scary.

Speaker 2: 2:29:51

I mean, that's top three scariest moments of my life.

Speaker 1: 2:29:55

Yeah, yeah, top three scariest moments of my life.

Speaker 2: 2:30:01

Yeah, yeah holy shit, dude. Uh, that is comedy. Yeah, good for you, bro. I have to do it again. There's plenty more to go around. How?

Speaker 1: 2:30:13

long we've been on. Two and a half hours. It goes quick, man, oh yeah, that's.

Speaker 2: 2:30:18

I was worried it was gonna wasn't gonna have enough talk about, but oh no, we didn't even talk about our stalker oh, jesus, yeah, we can save it, we'll save that one we'll save that one.

Speaker 1: 2:30:28

Well, dude, I appreciate it. Oh, it's been fun. Swing by anytime. Yeah, oh yeah we're saving your episode for episode 69. So I know I already knew it. I knew deep down in your soul that's that was your number. So perfect, well, dude. Thank you man, I appreciate. Appreciate you coming through and catching up. It's always good to to see where you're at and you looked healthy and everything looks good.

Speaker 2: 2:30:50

And yeah, I never know with you sometimes it's data used to be day to day, but we're doing all right now good good man.

Speaker 1: 2:30:59

Well, thanks, bro, appreciate you, and I know we'll fucking see you this fall. And yeah, I know you got some hunts, so I don't know if I gotta fill in for you up there yeah, there's, yeah, we gotta go through that a little bit yeah, well, thanks, man. I appreciate your time and it's always been a it's always a pleasure. So well, we'll get you back on, sounds good thanks, dude, appreciate you man, it's always a pleasure. Oh my god, that was so.