#70 - Three Shots Fired. One Brotherhood Shattered: Surviving The Unthinkable w/Ruben Delvalle

From the moment a suspect fired three shots at him in a Chicago alley, Ruben's life transformed forever. In this powerful conversation, Ruben takes us through his journey from Marine infantryman to Chicago police officer, building to the harrowing day when he and his partner Jeff were both shot while on duty.

With remarkable candor, Ruben describes his upbringing in Chicago, his time in the Marine Corps including deployment to Iraq, and his transition to law enforcement. The conversation builds toward the fateful encounter that left him wounded and his partner with a bullet permanently lodged in his skull – a moment that altered both their lives permanently.

Beyond the shooting itself, Ruben shares the psychological aftermath, their return to duty, and their assignment to the prestigious Fugitive Task Force hunting dangerous criminals.

The episode offers rare insights into police work's realities – from street-level interactions to departmental politics and the challenges officers face daily. Ruben reflects on how policing has changed, discussing both the community aspects and controversies surrounding modern law enforcement.

Finally, Ruben shares his journey founding Platoon Cigars during the pandemic, creating something positive from his experiences. This conversation beautifully captures the complexities of service, sacrifice, brotherhood, and rebuilding life after trauma. Whether you're interested in law enforcement, military service, or human resilience, this episode delivers powerful perspective from someone who's lived through extraordinary circumstances.

Go support Ruben and check out Platoon Cigars and you can follow him at:

Instagram: @PlatoonCigars and @robustocloud

Thanks for following along and see you next week!

Chapters

• 0:00 Marine Corps Journey and Deployment
• 17:35 Iraq War Experiences and Coming Home
• 32:13 Becoming a Chicago Police Officer
• 46:06 The Day We Got Shot
• 1:09:19 Working Fugitive Task Force
• 1:32:59 Losing a Partner and War Machine Cigars

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Walk me through the day that you and your partner got shot.

Speaker 2: 0:03

I see him reach and, in one motion, lift up his shirt and he fires. He lets off three rounds at me. All right, you ready, dude. All right, you ready, dude, let's do it. It's been a long time coming, I know, long time coming, I know I feel like we uh, we've already had this conversation.

Speaker 1: 0:38

It's so crazy. Yeah, I mean, I think you're the number one talked about person on this on this platform, because we finally have you here, the war machine which we're going to get into. Let's do it all right, ruben, let's just jump right into it. You, I'm excited for this conversation because you served your country as a united states marine, did some time overseas, yep, got out, became a law enforcement officer in chicago where you were shot in the line of duty along with your partner, which I want to definitely dive into. That experience and that that night. And uh, now what you're doing, uh, as far as the war machine or platoon cigar and jumping into that, so we got some topics to cover. Yeah, I'm excited because we got some. Uh, we got a personal very good friend of ours, dom, that's been on the episode he was in, he was on the show in the early days yeah dom, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:28

So, dude, welcome, welcome to the show. Why don't you just uh, finally having me? I know right we've been talking about it since, I think, the launch of this podcast. So that's cool. Yeah, you'll be episode 70 and here we are. Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 2: 1:42

Dude ruben, give me a little history of who you are, where you're from, um grew up in Chicago, born and raised, um, uh, raised pretty much with just my mom. My dad was around, um, not as often as I probably wanted him to be. Okay, he was in the military, so, um, pretty much it was just me and my mom. I would see him, you know, holidays, uh, every year I would see him. Every so often he would come down visit, but I kind of wish he was around more.

Speaker 2: 2:16

Okay, um, but he was in the military and so they weren't together though no, my parents divorced when I was, um geez, I was probably like three, four years old, I can't. I can't remember how I was really, really young, okay, yeah, so um grew up on the north side of chicago, um, when I was a kid, I was into sports, basketball, um and then my, my mom remarried and, um, my stepfather was super cool, okay, what age I can't remember they were. They were together for a while and then they got married. I don't remember what year they got married. I was probably around maybe, like 10 maybe, okay, probably a little younger than that. So he had two, he had one stepson and then he had one son of his own. All right, so they became, you know, my brothers Got it.

Speaker 2: 3:23

They were together. For my mom and him they were together for the longest, and a couple years back I want to say maybe I could be messing this up maybe five or actually more than five years ago they got divorced. Okay was. He was a um, the father figure as far as like everyday father figure for a big chunk of um, from, I want to say from the time they got together all the way up to I left to join the marines which was pretty important for you yeah, very important.

Speaker 2: 3:57

um you know, I was, I was, I was. I didn't accept it at first, for sure, I was like who's this guy?

Speaker 1: 4:06

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2: 4:07

It's been me and my mom this whole time, like who is this guy, and we bumped heads a little bit, but for the most part, you know, I respected him and he didn't push it too much. Okay, hey, give me, give me the respect you know.

Speaker 1: 4:25

He kind of, you know, let it be what it was I feel it's probably really important for a male role model or male figure in your life, especially growing up in chicago, because there's a million different avenues you can get pulled down. So it's it's probably a really important, yeah, aspect of life growing up in a city like that where you can get pulled into gang life drug, I mean.

Speaker 2: 4:51

You can go everything. My dad, um, they uh, my dad and my mom and dad met in high school, okay, but my dad and my dad's side of the family they were southssiders, so they were more on the South side of Chicago, and then my stepfather he was more on the North side. What's the difference? Just kind of like the culture, okay, how, on the South side it's mostly Blacks, you got Mexicans. I like to think it's a little bit for sure, it's a little bit more rougher, okay, um, and then the north side has its pockets, um, where it is, you know, you got the gangs, you got the drugs and stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 5:38

Um, where I lived at, um, it was a pretty pretty decent neighborhood, not the best, but it was, it was pretty good. Yeah, you know, for the most part it was a pretty pretty decent neighborhood, not the best, but it was, it was pretty good. Yeah, you know, for the most part it was pretty good. There was gangs but you know, I I knew some of the gang members from a, from a young age. So I kind of like like, when they got like 18, 19, I I was like dude, I know you okay like, so they didn't get pulled into any of that.

Speaker 2: 6:06

I could have easily gotten pulled into it, but, um, there was nothing there that attracted me to it interesting and I. I hate to say that because I was like if something attracted me to it, I probably would have.

Speaker 1: 6:18

Yeah, you know which is that, that male figure, the acceptance, wanting to be part of something, I feel is where a lot of kids get pulled in the games.

Speaker 2: 6:28

And for me it wasn't that at all, it was the total opposite. I was into sports too, and again I had a stepfather who you know he kind of like. He made sure like hey, listen, we're going to play basketball. So he kept you guys busy. Yeah, I'm taking you with me. Let's go and um. I think that he was a huge part of um. Again, I wasn't floating that way, but he was a huge part in making sure that I stood for this side, not that side.

Speaker 1: 6:59

So what made you want to join the marine corps?

Speaker 2: 7:02

um, my dad, okay, you know, my dad was in the, in the Marines. And um, I have a. My dad was in the Marines, my uncle was in the army, my grandfather was in the army, my, I have three cousins, Um, one was in the Navy and two of them are Marines now, okay, so it was like something in the family you know history, know history that, uh, I probably would have went down this path. And, um, I remember when I told my dad I was like so when I was young I want to say I can't remember the age, I'm always messed up when it comes to you know dates and ages, but I lived with my so my dad was getting stationed in okinawa, japan. And um, I remember he came up to me and he's like hey, I'm getting stationed in okinawa, japan, do you want to come with me?

Speaker 1: 7:57

and at first I was like that's a big question, that's a big question.

Speaker 2: 8:02

This is before my stepdad came around. I was like nah. And then finally my dad did some convincing and I was sold on it. I was like yeah, I'm gonna go. So I told my mom. My mom was like absolutely not. And then I kind of convinced her and my dad kind of convinced her, so I went to live. I was in fifth grade and I went to live in Okinawa, japan, for a year. How was that Interesting? For sure, for sure. We lived off base for like three months, four months, so we had to bus to go into school. I think I went to school on. Have you been to Okinawa?

Speaker 1: 8:39

No, Dodged it, thank God.

Speaker 2: 8:41

So yeah, dodged it, thank God.

Speaker 2: 8:44

So yeah, so I went to Ambe school and it sucked for me because I was always with my mom. And here's the thing Like my dad was in the picture. He was always in the picture, but he was in the picture like 100% of the time now when I was living with him. So there was different rules His rules, his life, his rules and my mom's rules Totally different Always. Yeah, and I felt that at that point I needed him to be more of like hey, dude, I'm your pops, I'm gonna show you the ropes. There's a little, there's some rules. This is not like living at home with your mom. There's some rules, but I'm going to let that slide. Not all of them, but let that slide because I want to enjoy my time here with you.

Speaker 1: 9:37

But he was like drill instructor, Marine mode or what.

Speaker 2: 9:42

Yes, there was a little bit of a drill instructor. I don't want to use that word drill instructor, but there was like it was really strict.

Speaker 1: 9:49

Okay, um, you know, I got away with some stuff here and there, but it was not what I was used to, and that's a that has to be an absolute culture shock, because if you go from your mom taking care of you as a young kid, yeah, now I'm a boy and then now I'm in okinawa, japan, with your dad yeah, it's not even.

Speaker 2: 10:08

It's not like I'm going to like. So north carolina, it's not something like that, it's like okinawa, japan, the other side of the world um, culture shock, culture shock, everything like the first three months we're living off base, so it's like it was just. I guess, at that age too, it was a lot for me so yeah, completely understood school sucked um.

Speaker 2: 10:32

The experience, looking back at it now, was awesome, but um, yeah, it is what it is, you know. And then, um so when I joined, so when I told my dad I was joining the marines, um he was like, absolutely not and really yeah, and it was like what do you mean?

Speaker 2: 10:52

absolutely not. I was like you're a marine, you've been a marine my whole life. Like what do you mean? He's like, no, you're not gonna do it. I was like it's kind of not up to you, buddy, you know. And I told my mom and she was not for it either. I told my stepdad and I had my stepbrother had just went off to boot camp, okay. So he was kind of like if you want to, you know, go ahead. Who's he to tell you now? Yeah, but I took what he said, I took that advice serious. So once he was kind of like, hey, listen, whatever you want to do, I was like OK.

Speaker 2: 11:30

So my dad was like hold on, let me go talk to the recruiter with you first. So I took the ASVAB, I did all that. The recruiter asked me he's like well, what do you want to do? And I was so naive at the time that I thought the Marine Corps was only like combat related jobs Infantry, door gunner, tanker, that's it. This is all we have to offer you. But there's tons of other jobs that I end up finding out, you know later. But my dad was in the infantry, so I was like that's what I want to do. And my recruiter, I remember he told me he's like you got a pretty good score, you can do some other stuff. He goes. I just don't want you to come back and have these recruiting. You know nightmares where it's like, hey, listen, I told you, you know that you could have did something else and you decided to do that, to do infantry is this pre-9-11?

Speaker 1: 12:33

yeah?

Speaker 2: 12:33

okay, yep. So so I got. I went in in march of, uh, uh, 2001. Okay, so my dad, so we, we finished that. And my dad's like hey, listen, won't you do this, this, this, this. I was like I don't want to do that, I don't want to go infantry. He's like son, I don't think you want to do infantry, you know. And I was like this man, I was bones, you know. And he's like I don't think you want to do infantry. And I was like fuck that, I'm doing infantry.

Speaker 2: 13:08

So I contacted the recruiter again and I told him what I wanted to do. I was like yeah, I'm doing infantry. He's like are you sure? I was like sign me up. So a couple months later, that's a good recruiter, though he, he, um, um, staff sergeant williams, um, he was awesome. But he told me he's like hey, dude, he, he gave me a list of the jobs. He's like listen, you qualify for this, this, this, this wasn't a lot, but inventory was like the bottom of the pole. He's like you can do all these jobs. I was like I want to do that one down there. He's like all right, man. He's like once, you know, you know, yeah, once you know. So, so, um, yeah, so I signed up. Oh 311, um go to go to boot camp to chicago.

Speaker 1: 14:05

You're a paris island boy nope west coast, chicago's west coast. Yep, where do they split it? Mississippi?

Speaker 2: 14:14

I. Yeah, it's the mississippi river, I guess.

Speaker 1: 14:17

So I I I went to west coast, interesting for some reason I thought chicago was, nope, paris island, what was that like? Okay, so you, you go from chicago to now you're in san diego boot camp um, boot camp was.

Speaker 2: 14:33

I mean, you've had so many guys on here tell you about boot camp and boot camp was pretty much the same thing. It was, uh, it was a lot of yelling. You you know how it is screaming, you know you fuck up. We all get, you know, our ass chewed. I was already pretty athletic, so the only thing that bothered me about boot camp was waking up so early. Yeah, I hated that to this day. I hate it. Um, so, those days used to, I mean every day but I remember getting out of the the rack a little too slow and the di just come in and just throw me off the bed so I wasn't a morning person.

Speaker 2: 15:22

So as far as boot camp, that was the only thing that sucked for me, like really sucked for me, that I couldn't. I wasn't a morning person, so as far as boot camp, that was the only thing that sucked for me, like really sucked for me, that I couldn't, I couldn't shake it. The whole time I was there I was like all right, dude, here we go I made this bullshit.

Speaker 1: 15:34

These dudes are like wake up at four, start your day here. I can't. I've tried.

Speaker 2: 15:39

I'm not one of them like and and they do it every day, do it every day. I remember being on fire watch and I'm like dozing off and these guys are like, you hear their alarm clock 4, 30 in the morning and they're and they're doing push-ups and I'm like why? You don't have to get up to like six why, you up at 4 30 in that. I don't know that's. That's a different breed, right.

Speaker 1: 16:02

I'm one of those Like, if we got to be in formation at six, I lay everything out the night before and I'm getting up at like five 45 teeth, brush, clothes on straight out in the format. Now, that's how I have last minute. I'm one of those Like I'm getting every last minute of sleep that I can get.

Speaker 2: 16:20

I've been like that my whole life, like even even honey, I've been like that my whole life, like even even hunting. I tried to do that and I got thrown off the bed. So it didn't work out in boot camp, yeah, no, it never does, yeah. So I mean, I remember in boot camp we had this, we had this, this drill instructor, sergeant Van Squake, and this guy was, he was like the heavy hat, this guy was Satan, he was, he was like the heavy hat. This guy was satan, he was, he was the devil. And uh, he would come up to you and he'd grab you and he'd pull you towards, towards him and he'd like punch out oh yeah punch you in your chest.

Speaker 2: 16:55

Yeah and um. I remember one day we didn't, we didn't even make the initial, so we had initial drill. Remember that we didn't even make the basic bottom line score for initial drill. You're done. We all had like two left feet and he was supposed I think they played it like this, but I guess he was supposed to go to I don't know Disney World or something in Cali with his family that weekend and the senior DI was like you're not going, you're staying here and you're going to make sure they drill. And this guy was so pissed off which I think it's all a game For sure, it's all staged. It's all a game for sure. It's all sure, it's all bullshit.

Speaker 2: 17:46

And um, and he just like dude from four o'clock. I mean we were he. He made us go outside grab, we grabbed a, um, one of the wall, the, the lockers or foot, yep, we put dirt in it. We brought it back upstairs, we took out laundry detergent, we put it all over the floor and then we put the dirt on top of it, stuck to everything. Then he cut up squares. Remember how you used to deck tile? Yeah, like with the whole tile, mm-hmm. He cut up these little squares this big. Yeah, like with the whole towel, he cut up these little squares this big and he made us deck tile with these squares until everything was fucking clean. I mean, there's guys still like sliding because there's this film. Oh for sure, like you're never gonna get it out no so he did that.

Speaker 2: 18:39

I mean he he like made us take all our racks, put it outside, outside, like, act like we're sleeping, get up, count off One, two, like, and we're like, why, dude, just because we didn't make the basic score, initial drill. So yeah, I mean boot camp. Other than that, I mean I already knew that. You know, I already knew boot camp was going to suck. My brother had had, I think at the time my brother had just got stationed and, um, I think he was. He was a combat engineer. I'm trying to think if he was with three. I forgot who he was with, but he was somewhere in, um, uh, pendleton, Okay, so he had already told me some stories about bootcamp.

Speaker 1: 19:27

So I kind of already knew what to expect. So I knew nothing, nothing at all. No, bro, I was one of those.

Speaker 2: 19:30

I didn't know that bootcamp was going to be like.

Speaker 1: 19:32

I knew well. I mean, it was 2003. It was one of those. Like I'm doing it.

Speaker 2: 19:38

I no matter what.

Speaker 1: 19:46

I was like a recruiter's wet dream. I was like hey took the asfab. I'm an idiot.

Speaker 2: 19:48

Give me a job, let's do this, and I'm like, when can we?

Speaker 1: 19:49

leave. I was like where can you put me at? Yeah, like, let's go, I'm ready now. And he, the guy, he was just like sign here, son, like one of those. So no, I, I had no friends that were joining the marine. I was the only one out of my whole entire like crew that went military I saw.

Speaker 2: 20:04

I saw full metal jacket and that sold me.

Speaker 1: 20:08

Oh no no, I was like metal jacket.

Speaker 2: 20:11

I was like, yes, sign me up. These guys really, yes, for sure, they're seeking m-i-c-k-e-y. They're singing that.

Speaker 1: 20:20

I mean I, I just I knew that if I was going to join a military branch, it was going to be the marines that that's the only thing I pretty much do, because I I I grew up just north of 10th mountain division in upstate new york, okay, so we're always dealing with, we call them drum bums because fort drum and so that's kind of like the name we gave them as kids and you call them around town. I knew the army was it for me, the navy was an absolute no, and the air force was it's the air force, so no. And then I honestly was like looking at the coast guard, because there's two coast guard stations 30 minutes like each direction of where I grew up. So I was like, oh, I can get stationed here, I'm on the river, I'll live at home like this is skate and yeah, I ended up joining the marines like an idiot. But yeah, no, I was. Yeah, I'm in, I'm out.

Speaker 2: 21:08

That was it. So I, I did that, um, I get out of there, go home and then I come back for SOI school and um a bunch of guys. So we're sitting there after we graduate SOI school and um, a bunch of guys, they put us, they put us out um in formation and they're like everyone's got their, their, their like. Let's say, you're going to machine gun school, you're mortar men, whatever, yeah, and then they break us up and they say, hey, listen, you guys, from this point on, you guys are going to lejeune. You guys, from this point on, you're going to penultimate. And then there was probably like 27 of us left and we're like fuck, did we pass? Like what? Why are you know? Why are we still here?

Speaker 2: 21:57

and I at the time I had no idea where, where and who was in 29 palms. So they're like you guys, you're going into stumps. And this one, a buddy of mine's, morris, he was with me and he's like fuck yeah and I'm like I look at him and I, I like go straight to him.

Speaker 2: 22:23

I'm like, dude, where? Dude, where are we going? He's like we're going to 29 Palms. I'm like where is that? He goes California, I go. So Pendleton. He's like no, keep going, he goes, we're going to the desert. Yeah, I'm like all right, whatever, you know, I didn't get it. So we pack up. I think it was the next day the buses come, we head out there and this is like I don't know July or something. Oh God, we're in our Alphas. We get there. I'm like my name starts with a D, so I'm kind of like in the front of the bus. So I get out to help unload sea bags and as soon as I get out I feel this heat and the dude next to me. He's like don't worry, dude, that's the heat coming from the exhaust of the bus. No, it wasn't.

Speaker 1: 23:17

And.

Speaker 2: 23:17

I'm like all right, I'm sweating up a storm, it's like 108 degrees or something, and the bus takes off and I still I it feels like hotter because you were in the shade. Yeah, I was in the shade. The sun was on the other side of the bus. So I'm like where the fuck am I? And um, and it's crazy because I seen this somewhere where this guy describes it as he got to 29 palms and it was like everybody's staring at you and these guys just start immediately talking shit to you once you get there and it was a bunch of like salt guys had already went to okinawa. They're already salty, but the war hasn't kicked off yet.

Speaker 1: 24:03

No, okay, so you don't have like crusty seniors coming back.

Speaker 2: 24:10

No, but we do have guys that look like when I tell you salty, they look like they have snow camisole. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, because there's bleached up and it's creased dude. And we had some senior guys that they were like, listen, you guys don't rate desert boots, so you guys can't wear desert boots unless we're in the field. When we're in garrison, you're wearing black boots, so all the boots. So you knew all the boots. All the senior guys had the desert boots and we're the only guys with oh, so you're walking around, basically walking around, yeah, with black boots, and then, um, I mean hazing everything, you name it, running up sugar cookie, running up dragon's back, like you name it. I've done it. All the hazing, um, I mean guys, then there's hazing and then there's just fucking with you, oh, and out there 29 palms.

Speaker 1: 25:05

You guys are, there's nothing to do, kind of tucked away and there's nothing to do besides just either haze or get hazed. Yes, I mean, how many njps are taking it?

Speaker 2: 25:15

oh, tons, I've heard they have a whole career like guys used to run into rooms with gas masks and just wail on guys that they have problems with with gas masks and just wail on guys that they had problems with. Guys used to. I remember guys would it happened to me when I was a boot and then I partaked in it for sure where guys would just guys would just piss and frisbees, freeze them and then crack them and slide them under the doors. So that's a good one.

Speaker 2: 25:44

I've never heard of that one so in the morning there's just a pile of piss just everywhere. Dude, that's the most marine shit ever, the most marine shit. I mean. There's guys jumping off the catwalks like field day turned into. Hey listen, if you, if you got a problem with this guy, there goes a boxing equipment. We had helmet, gloves, figure it out, you know, you know, fucking one minute, three rounds, or whatever. Figure it out. All right, stop it. Boom, that's it.

Speaker 2: 26:13

That's how it was back in 01 yeah and um, the senior guys knew about it and the staff ncos knew about it, yeah, but shit got done.

Speaker 1: 26:22

Yeah, you know which is how I feel it should always be. Yeah, Because you know I come from the Amtrak community, so it was like hey, raise the ramp, get in the back and kill your shit, Yep. So, and then you shake hands and that's it. Yep, you move on.

Speaker 2: 26:37

Yep, there was a lot of guys that. And then you had the constant barracks fights with the other. You know, because you got comm school out there, comm school Paints are out there, so I went to 2-7. I went to 2nd Battalion, 7th Marine, so I was in Echo Company, but we had Echo Company and then upstairs we had Fox.

Speaker 1: 26:58

Okay.

Speaker 2: 26:59

So that was a brawl, and it seemed to happen every field day. It was like I got a problem with bam, I'm gonna handle this shit on thursday and um, so yeah, that, that was. That, was it, dude? And then we, we, we got tight really quick and then we went to, um, we deployed to okinawa, japan, so you're, I mean, so this is so I told my dad.

Speaker 2: 27:24

I was like, hey, listen, I'm here, blah, blah, I go guess where I'm going. He's like where I go? Okinawa, japan. He started laughing. He's like he's die laughing. He's like I told, because I I left okinawa, japan in fifth grade. I said I'd never fucking come here, ever again. Here you are and I'm on the right back going back to oaky. So we get to okinawa, japan and we train a lot there. Um, so while we're there, the war kicks off okay okay.

Speaker 2: 27:54

So actually let me rewind that. So back in 2001 the twin towers happened and we're sitting out at range 400, yep, and I remember a couple of guys, um lieutenants, had the, um the phones out there and they're getting these calls and then they basically put us in the school circle and they tell us what happened. A couple guys had um family in new york so the higher-ups were like hey, let's call your family, make sure everything's okay. So they got phone calls home while we were out in the field and then it hit us hard. They're like dude, this just happened. We're thinking are we gonna go back like and go? They're like no training just got way more serious yeah so we're sitting out in range 400, running 410 alpha.

Speaker 2: 28:43

We're running all the ranges. So we finished that and I forgot who it was I think it was either 37 or 17 coming back and we take their spot to go to Okinawa, japan, and we're thinking like come on, let's go to Iraq, like fuck this. So we go to Okinawa.

Speaker 1: 29:09

Japan and we're there, and while we're there, we get stop loss, which is what explain the stop loss.

Speaker 2: 29:11

Loss is basically where all our senior guys had an eas date that they're supposed to get out the war. So finally we, we, we go into iraq. So that means that we're at a time of war. That means that your eas date does when we say it is. So all those guys got stop loss. So they're pissed. But but they're, they're. They're pissed because they're in okinawa, yeah, and I get it, they're not in iraq. They're like dude, if we're, yeah, if we're, if we're in the, we're in the infantry, if we we're in Iraq and stop loss, fuck it, we're here, we're at the Super Bowl. So they were pissed because they were in Okinawa, japan.

Speaker 1: 29:53

Did that trickle down to you guys? Because I could see, like you're saying, you're a grunt. That's what grunts do. And now these dudes are stop loss and they're not even deploying.

Speaker 2: 30:09

I mean, did that just trickle down and make your guys's life hell, or did it not? No, I think at that point everyone knew how serious it was and guys started getting a little tight. Okay, because we knew. Um, first of all, our seniors knew hey, listen, if we don't go, these guys are going. Maybe maybe not, but they're probably gonna go what was the atmosphere like?

Speaker 1: 30:27

I don't know if I've ever actually asked or talked to guys that were in that transition phase, because I'm I watched the trade you know trade centers fall and then I fell for the okay, we're gonna be patriotic and we're gonna defend our country, but you were in prior. Was there a weird shift throughout, like the marine corps? Did you see it like? Did it get really serious? Or was it just an? And we're going to defend our country, but you were in prior? Was there a weird shift throughout the Marine Corps? Did you see it? Did it get really serious? Or was it just an every A shift, as in Did we believe it.

Speaker 1: 30:55

No, as far as training the atmosphere, the tempo, I mean, was it like an overnight thing for you guys? So was it kind of like fun and cool before then the World Trade Center's hit and then everything flipped? Or was it like gradual?

Speaker 2: 31:08

Yeah, it was fun. I mean, we ran Range 400. Yeah, you know, Steel Knight, we did all these different ops and it was for me it was fun.

Speaker 1: 31:18

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:18

I mean for my seniors it was probably like fuck this shit again.

Speaker 2: 31:29

But for me it was the first taste of it range 400 first time. It kind of sucked, but I was like, damn, this is what. This is what I'm going to be doing for now. On um steel night yep, cax, all that shit. Um, when, when we were in okinawa, japan, that so. So when we found out about the when 9-11 hit, training did get serious. When we got to Okinawa, what happened was? We took I think I want to say it was 1-7, we took their pump. So what happened is this is the part that didn't make sense to me at the time in okinawa, japan, we were the second most senior infantry battalion in the entire marine corps, really. And we were in okinawa, japan, so we thought we're desert marines, we're the second most senior infantry battalion in the marine corps at that time. Why are we not in iraq?

Speaker 2: 32:25

yeah so a bunch of guys had a chip on their shoulder. They were like this is bullshit. But we like when I say we, like my generation of marines, like the guys I came in with, we kind of knew we just got here, we knew eventually we're probably going to get the call you. You know, we saw it. We started to see units push out, you know, come back home, and then the other unit go. So they told us this story about hey, you guys are here because you know North Korea is here in case something happens with that, or China. We were like whatever. So we took one sevens pump and we went to the Philippines. Oh, you did a Mew. No, we didn't do a Mew, we flew straight into. Oh, really, we did Balacatan. Okay, we did. What else did we do? We went to South Korea and we went to am I missing something? Philippines, and that's it. And then mainland Japan.

Speaker 1: 33:25

Okay okay.

Speaker 2: 33:27

So we did that whole pump during that time when it was stop loss. Then we came home after that, um, I think we were in how I can't remember how long we were. That pump was because stop loss. But we came home and once we came home, all the guys eased that were supposed to leave. So you lost all your seniors. So we lost all our seniors. But but, like, so we lost all our seniors, we got like a boot drop while we were in okie, but it was only like eight guys or something like that.

Speaker 2: 33:56

So all our guys, they they're gone, so right as they're leaving or like right when they left. Right after that they tell us hey, listen, you guys are getting orders to go overseas. They didn't tell us iraq yet. So all these guys are trying to get back in, all the senior guys, and they and a couple of them I talked to them they felt like shit because they were like dude, we've been waiting for this and um, they, they were trying to get back in and they were like listen, we could get you back in, but you're not gonna go back with two, seven, and they were like well, fuck that yeah, I go yeah, what's the point?

Speaker 2: 34:34

we train with these guys like we're not, we're not gonna go in another unit, which totally makes sense. Um, a couple guys did sign up and did some like reserve unit spots. Three months before we push out, three or four months before we push out to go to iraq, we find out they give us a boot drop. So it's like we can't even haze, we can't even like, we can't do. None of that really, really no, because we're about to go to iraq with guys. We got to get these guys spun up. So there was a little bit of you know, like I'm sure there were some games, but it wasn't. There were some games being played, but it was kind of like hey, listen, these guys are going to fucking have our back when we're out there, let's make sure they're man.

Speaker 2: 35:18

They got lucky.

Speaker 1: 35:18

They got lucky. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:26

They got lucky and, um, at the end of the day, that was more important to us for sure was building that bond and making sure these guys know their job. Yep, and it worked out. You know it worked out for us.

Speaker 1: 35:35

So you guys get the call that you're going to iraq and then off you go. Yeah, what was? What's that like?

Speaker 2: 35:42

so we, we get to Iraq and we get to Kuwait, we convoy up to half of the unit convoys up and the other half flies in to Al-Asad. We get there, al-asad, good old Al-Asad. We get there and we kind of didn't really know what our mission was at first, and then they tell us that we are going to be the. They kind of tell Echo Company like, hey, you guys are the main effort, like you guys are. Yeah, so we end up in heat. You went to hit yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:22

What year?

Speaker 2: 36:23

We're there in 04. Fuck four fuck okay yeah, all right, we're there in oh four and then the rest. So we had guys on the border and then we had guys up north in um, uh, the haditha.

Speaker 1: 36:39

Yeah yeah, so I was there, all of did you? Did the army relieve you guys?

Speaker 2: 36:44

we relieved the army, so there was a tank. So when we got to so here's a funny story when we got to hit, we got there and and dude, they, they like were ready to get the fuck out of there. Like we got there and they show us around out of there. Like we got there and they show us around and, um, like a day later they like pull out and they leave like two guys to do left seat, right seat. That's such an army thing, yeah, but but it's only like three humvees everybody else has. There's nothing Army there at all. They took all their shit. Like the day we got there they were already like all right, these guys are coming here, pack up. Once they get here, let's get the fuck out. And they left those guys there to do left seat, right seat. So we get there, they do left seat, right seat with us. We drive through the city and we get, we take, we get like pop shots at us how, how soon being there, were you guys engaged?

Speaker 2: 37:51

um, I want to say probably in two or three days.

Speaker 2: 37:56

They were mortaring us really immediately and then, as far as the firefights, I would say, um, probably two, three weeks okay, before you saw a serious firefight. But the pop shots is what I'm talking about. So they right seat, left seat we drive through the traffic circle, pop shots, and, um, a bunch of guys. They're like, oh shit, like let's dismount army's, like, fuck that, keep going. They're like we got two days. We're not getting out of this on v at all. You guys could do that shit on wednesday if you want to. We're not doing that shit today. So we're like, just like a bunch of guys, we're like just marking shit, like, okay, this, this and their intel, like to our intel, was okay, they, they told us about some spots and stuff like that. But they pushed out and then we, we took over, we started doing the whole. At that time they were doing a lot of satellite patrol, win the hearts and minds. Yep, you know, passing out soccer balls.

Speaker 1: 39:07

So I was in hit for the elections, okay, which was oh five, I believe that was after us, yeah, and we took over from the army. So we were at the train station, okay, just you know there was like we called it, um, it was so once you, once you get to the traffic circle, you make a right.

Speaker 1: 39:25

Yeah, yeah and there was a lake. There was like a like milk covered, smelled like rotten bodied lake, and so we rolled in in the middle of the night. The army was at the train station and we roll, and I think I've told the story on here. Where did we come pulling in middle of the night? My lieutenant jumps out because I was lieutenant's driver. He climbs down the side of the vehicle, he meets up.

Speaker 1: 39:45

They're talking and I'm kind of like looking and and I pull up my mvgs and dude, there's like a all these humvees staged and they're all. They all have gunners in them, they're all running. You can see, you know everything that's going on. And the lieutenant, they talk for a few minutes and they split and guy gets in and lead vic and they just start rolling out and he climbs up and puts on the comms and I'm like what's up, sir? He's like apparently the train station's ours, they're out of here. I'm like what do you mean they're out of here? He's like they're, they've been waiting on us like they're out and we didn't even get three guys the. They just left and the. The best part about this whole thing is so they had had the whole HESCO barriers built around the train station.

Speaker 2: 40:25

See when I was there, they didn't have that at all. Okay, they didn't have that at all.

Speaker 1: 40:30

So the Army had to have come in after you guys then.

Speaker 2: 40:33

Well, we replaced an Army unit Okay, bad was a was a reserve unit from. I think they were kind of by um, that um, south padre island island in texas somewhere. Okay, they were around there because I remember a couple of guys talking about, yeah, we, we go there on the weekends or whatever, and they got hit pretty bad and they were, they were a reserve unit that that took over us.

Speaker 1: 41:04

I wonder when that was, because these guys were ready and they were like good luck.

Speaker 2: 41:09

Well, the guys that we had that we relieved they were ready to go too. I mean they all left and they only left those guys to be do right seat, left seat. I'm telling you, which is so weird they took pop shots at us and they were like, yeah, they're like relax, it's gonna happen every day, keep going. And we're like, shouldn't we? No, not today, wednesday, you can't wednesday, not with us like, yeah, not with us here.

Speaker 2: 41:38

So, um, it's funny that that that uh train station right there. They took a pop shot at us and we were listening to music in our Humvee and I remember them saying contact, contact. I remember I was driving the Humvee and I jump out of the Humvee as the Humvee stoke and drive and it just falls into this ditch, really nice and slow, and we were taking fire from like the. I don't know if you remember the traffic circle. Oh yeah, you remember the school that was there. It was like a, it was like a four or five level building.

Speaker 2: 42:12

It was a school was no it was on your left hand side once you pass the traffic circle. Anyways, they were shooting at us from there. It's funny because we were going towards the train station, okay, yeah, so that's how I remember that. Um, so we get there, then they send us to. We did some patrols around there. We we lost a couple guys there.

Speaker 2: 42:35

Um, one of my boys, david facente. We lost them and that was like for all of us that shit sucked. How did you lose them? Ied, okay, so what happened was we got stuck out in this area. We couldn't get out. They were a QRF. They came out to get us and it was all double-stack anti-tank mines and they just so we lost him. And that like really devastating to the, to the whole company, because we're like you know, you hear these stories. You're like the first guys that are gonna die are the, the boots, not us. I hate to say it, but that's that's like how I was thinking. I was like it's not gonna be us and um, he was a machine gunner and we lost him, dude, and that that ripped, like everybody was like, okay, this shit is real yeah, because after a while I mean the pop shots and stuff you hear guys, and it's like the army, it just becomes daily.

Speaker 1: 43:36

I don't want to say complacent, but it is it is 100 and and then when something major, it kind of resets like, okay, this is, this is even though you're in war, you're in a foreign country, you're in the city, you're getting pop shots at you, like your mindset, kind of you know, it becomes a joke. You hear daily life. Yeah, you hear a lot of these guys talk about that and it's just like oh yeah, keep rolling Like we'll be back, and then then you run over a double stacked tank mines, and then reality sets home real quick.

Speaker 2: 44:08

Yeah, so that sucked man, we lost Dave, then after that we lost Barr, then after that we lost engineers. I mean, we were taking casualties, taking casualties and um, and I remember um I, while I was there, I got in trouble and um, I got in trouble for something so stupid. I got in trouble because I wouldn't go on on patrol with a half. There was like a half cell left in my battery, um radio for my radio and they wanted me to go set up on at a lpop with my team for like three hours and it was in an area where um qrf always gets hit, they always get fucking shot at. And I kind of like you know, kind of told you know our platoon sergeant at the time. I told him, you know, first of all my squad leader told me not and I knew him. So I was kind of like Matt, I'm not doing this.

Speaker 2: 45:15

He's like dude, come on. He's like I'm in a pickle here, you know, I'm like I'm not doing it. And staff sergeant heard it. He was like what the fuck? You can't take orders. I was like I'm not doing that. Well, that's stupid. I go give me another battery or something, or they're always getting shot at here. Something's gonna happen and for three hours we're not gonna have comms. Eventually we're not gonna have comms on our way back or we might lose it there and they might see us and light us up Like what, for what? For what purpose, you know. So they, they sent me to Al-Asad and I did prison guard for like a week and it kind of was a break. And then after that it was.

Speaker 2: 46:07

I mean it was. I had bomb, bomb ass food too. Do they have good food while you're there? They what we ate at the chow hall the whole time were you?

Speaker 1: 46:12

did you stay in tent city where? Okay, so, yeah. So they had the mongolian grill and all that. Did they have the basket of robins?

Speaker 2: 46:18

when you were there. We ate at the chow hall the whole time. That's what I'm saying like we, we didn't. And then we got pokey bait, obviously from the px and shit, but yeah, yeah, yeah, but um, so I stood there for a week.

Speaker 2: 46:29

I came back and when I came back, I think a day, a day or two later, um, we lost bar, eric bar, and I remember being so pissed off because I came back and the staff sergeant I don't remember what, but they kind of didn't let me go out on that patrol and one of our platoons second platoon had gotten a really bad firefight and IEDs hit Eric Barr and he died. And I remember they brought him back and he died. And I remember they brought him back and I remember I was so furious that my guys just went out there without me I don't know why I wasn't on this patrol, I think he was just being an asshole and, um, I remember helping the guys take out eric bar out of the back in a humvee and the helo was coming and the the tarp they had over him like flew off and I just saw him and I just broke down and started crying. I was like this is bullshit, like this is like I was like really pissed off. How bad was he, if you don't mind me asking, burnt, completely burnt. His body was. So they, they, they went around a bend, um, on a road and there was an IED on the top of the light pole that was facing down and then there was one on the bottom that was facing up and he was right when they went around the corner. It hit him right there. So like I saw him and I didn't even recognize him and I knew it was Barb, but but I was like, and he was just like burnt and I was so pissed off about that and they sent them out.

Speaker 2: 48:15

Then we came back, um, the platoon came back and, um, the thing is, is that the higher-ups in that command I hate saying this, but I gotta say but like we had some higher-ups in that command that were just like fucking turds, how so? I I believe in troop welfare, for sure, morale, morale For sure, it's everything. It's everything I mean if you, if you come, you got to convince me. You know I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, fight for my brothers, but you still got to convince me that what we're doing is the right thing. And you got to, you got to take care of your troops, you know.

Speaker 1: 49:00

A good leader thinks like that.

Speaker 2: 49:05

Even when he gets to the higher ups. You would think that they think like that and they didn't, they didn't, and uh, that's, that's the problem I had. I've, I've, I said that a couple times before. I think a lot of guys agree with me and don't have any pushback when it comes to that. Yep, um, and we're, we're sitting in. They tell us we're going to do this thing called Ripper Sweep, which is we're going to go. This is so. We were part of the first push into Fallujah. Really, we were the first part of Fallujah. So they tell us we're going to do this thing called Ripper Sweep.

Speaker 2: 49:47

Right before we're going to do Ripper Sweep, um, I'm sitting on my on my bed, on my um, on my uh, my uh pack, and, um, the first sergeant comes up to me and he says hey, I'm sorry, he says that to me. He goes hey, I'm sorry. And I'm like. I look at him, I'm like, you know, I get up. I'm like what's that? First sergeant? He goes, have you talked to the chaplain? And I go no, he goes, goes. This is exactly what I'm talking about. And I go no, he goes. Oh, I'm sorry, he goes. Chaplain's gonna come talk to you right. So I'm like what the?

Speaker 1: 50:35

hell was that that's not good right.

Speaker 2: 50:38

So the chaplain comes up to me and the chaplain tells me that my brother passes away. So my stepbrother passed away when I was out there in Iraq. So at the time I had my brother Mike. He was in Iraq at the time so right away I thought it was him. But it was my brother that was stateside, who got pinched between a car. He died.

Speaker 2: 51:10

So I'm like what the fuck is this? This is how you spread news. First Sergeant didn't even know what the fuck's going on. I wasn't even thinking about that. But this is hindsight. I thought about it. I was like they didn't do it the right way.

Speaker 2: 51:26

So I get a call, call home, find out I'm balling. Um, I find out it's my, my uh, stepbrother, jason. It's not um mike, who's in country too. Um, so you know, after that's done, the first sergeant comes up to me and he's like hey, you know, I'm sorry what happened. He goes um, you have, you have the red cross. If you want, you could go home. And um, I'm like, of course I wanted to go home, but something told me. I was like dude, these guys are about to go into the worst place ever. I was a team leader at the time I was like, no, I'm not gonna go home. So I stood there and, um, we went through fallujah and um, fallujah sucked ass.

Speaker 2: 52:21

Um, I remember, while we were in Fallujah for like three weeks, right when we were about to come out actually, we were there for about a month because we were there prior and right when we were about to come out, I felt the need to be home. So I told the first sergeant I'm like, hey, first sergeant shouldn't be a problem. And I just lost my brother, figured I'd take one for the team and fucking make sure my platoon did this. Op came back home. We're good.

Speaker 2: 53:01

And this fucking guy I say, hey, first sergeant, is there any way? I could, you know, take you up on that offer? You know, and you know, I want to see my family, I want to go home. You know, at this time he tells me are you fucking serious? And I go. I was like because, first of all, I told my squad leader, my squad leader's like, yeah, absolutely. He's like, let me, you know, I'll go, I'll go with you. And um, he's like, why the fuck didn't you tell me that? Or he goes, why the fuck didn't you go when we, when we were going to try to get you to go and I was like dude, I didn't even know what to say. I was like I don't know first hard. That's exactly what I said. I said I don't know first hard because I didn't want to abandon my boys before the push.

Speaker 2: 53:45

I couldn't even believe that this guy was saying that to me. Yeah, that's wild. This is a guy that true story and you could. You can ask some guys from two, seven and echo he. I don't even know how this is even possible. He was a big swole dude. I don't know how this is possible. All I could think is that he jammed it in. He. He put a magazine in his rifle upside down.

Speaker 1: 54:07

That's impressive.

Speaker 2: 54:09

Pretty impressive. Then went to the clearing barrel, realized because my buddy was at the clearing barrel realized that his magazine was upside down. Put it back in the right way, racked around, showed him, then racked it and cleared it again. My buddy Durheim was like what the fuck did? I just see this is the first sergeant. First sergeant, yeah that makes sense yeah and uh.

Speaker 2: 54:31

So I did that whole thing happen. Finally, I talked to the. I had a meeting with the co because I was like listen, is it okay? If not, I'm gonna talk to co. Yeah, you know, I don't give a fuck at this point. You know, um, find co, talk to me. Co asked me he's like did you have the option before to do it? I was like, yeah, he goes, okay, he goes. Listen, we're gonna try to get you out of here, but I can't make any promises.

Speaker 1: 55:00

I was like okay, it's a better answer than the fucking.

Speaker 2: 55:03

That's another one yeah, instead of being pissed off at me. So after about a week, two weeks, I went home, went home for a week hung out with my family. It was a break. And during that time we lost four contractors. Yeah and um, um, I'm sorry, we lost four, uh, uh, engineers, combat engineers and um, I saw that I remember seeing it on news and I was like fuck man, I knew exactly where they got hit at, I knew exactly who they were and um, and I was like dude, I gotta get back. I have to get back. So it was kind of hard to you know, I was trying to spend time with my family and be there, but then I was like man, the boys, they're hooking and jabbing right now they're hooking and jabbing.

Speaker 2: 55:52

So I got back, so we finished that mess and um, we got back from, uh, iraq during that pump and, uh, a bunch of guys were getting out and I was like what am I going to do? I kind of didn't have any plans. I was kind of like I know I'm done, but am I really done Because I don't have any plans? Most of the guys getting out, they got something lined up. I didn't have shit lined up. I was like I was talking about it. I was all talk. I was like I was talking about it. I was all talk. I was like I'm getting the fuck out, getting that fuck out. I had I had, um, some time so I could get out a little earlier.

Speaker 2: 56:32

And uh, I remember I was sitting down in my room with my buddy. He's like what are you gonna do? I go, no idea, but I'm not staying here. Nope, he's like maybe you should think about it. I go, all right, I'm not staying here. And um, he's like, hey, I don't blame you. And uh, it was just changed. At that time I think I feel like it was still early, like because you came in, but it was changing, the marine corps was changing and and I think that those guys had enough that they learned that they can know they can go out yeah, leaders now yeah and uh lead platoons and move forward.

Speaker 1: 57:15

I want to back up to fallujah. That was a wild time. You guys did the push, we were part of the first part of it.

Speaker 2: 57:24

We weren't, we weren't the um, um, uh, what was it called?

Speaker 2: 57:29

invasion the invasion. Yeah, we weren't part of that. We were part of the first push and then they pulled us out. So we'll know if you heard about that. But they, they pushed us in um, it was like door to door and then they pushed us out and I read somewhere in um, I read somewhere in a book, why they did that, because the initial reason why we went is because they killed those contractors. Yep, so I don't know you, you would have to look it up why they pushed us out. But they basically told us hey, listen, we're going to Fallujah, we go to Fallujah, we're fucking surrounding the city, door to door. Then they push us out Doing patrols in the city, then they push us out and then, when they push us out, that's when it became a hornet's nest, because I feel the Taliban at that time they were like, oh, look at what we did.

Speaker 1: 58:27

We pushed them out. So the Taliban felt like they're taking credit. They were taking credit for you guys being pulled back by your own unit, by your own command and that was all.

Speaker 2: 58:38

You know, mad Dog, madison, shit For sure. That was all. Here's the crazy part. Like, I know some guys that are like they hate them. You know I've talked to a couple guys that hate them and they're like, why did he pull, pull us out? He got a lot of guys killed, whatever. I don't know, I don't, I don't get into the politics of you know chess piece and and shit like that way above our pay grade way above so they pulled us out. So we were there, like I said, for about a month.

Speaker 1: 59:04

They pulled us out and then, um, we left in november sometime, and that's when the fucking, the real pushing time so when you guys are in fallujah, you're going door to door, so it wasn't like it was patrols, so you're not getting into it like the guys that came in after you because now, so the city wasn't really. No, no, there was guys getting into it, like the guys that came in after you because now, so the city wasn't really no, no, there was guys getting into it, for sure, but it wasn't the. The flood of insurgents that went to fallujah ready for the fight. Yeah, that, that shit was.

Speaker 2: 59:35

You guys were the calm. I heard stories about that shit and that shit was insane. Oh yeah, it was, it was crazy.

Speaker 1: 59:42

So you guys didn't experience that. But I mean, you guys are not that, you guys are still getting into it, but you're not yeah, we're getting some.

Speaker 2: 59:48

but it was like, um, when I heard stories about that, because some of those guys that I knew stood in and they ended up going back to like on their third or fourth pump. They ended up going back to iraq and, um, they were like, yeah, fallujah was fucking, that's not even worth it, no more Like we've been there, done that, destroyed it, turned it to Swiss cheese.

Speaker 2: 1:00:11

Swiss cheese. Yeah, so, but we got a lot of action and hit. We got a lot of action at what was the other one, fallujah, but there was just what was that West? So where you guys were at, I forgot to tell them. But where you guys were at in um, where the train station is, if you keep driving west, where the cement factory was, remember, do you remember cement?

Speaker 1: 1:00:39

factory where I was there was Hitt Ramadi, haditha Haklania, sinjik Barwana. That was all in that area. Those were all the towns that we were in, okay.

Speaker 2: 1:00:52

So do you even remember the cement factory? No, I forgot what city that was in but they were building car bombs there. Okay, yeah, so we did a whole raid with the seals, with all every special forces that you could think of. Really there, and we get there and there's nobody there every time, bro, every time, dude.

Speaker 1: 1:01:13

They stood us up to do this raid on like we're like going into these like offices yeah we're going into the cement factory.

Speaker 2: 1:01:21

We're like tearing shit up. There's no sign of anything.

Speaker 1: 1:01:24

Nothing. How many times? Yeah, oh, they're building. They're building suicide vests in this factory. We're going to go to run a mission on it. Nothing, not even like a ball bearing laying around.

Speaker 2: 1:01:39

They were just spinning us.

Speaker 1: 1:01:40

Yeah, man, I think it was just to keep us busy, so we didn't get complacent 100%. Yeah, man, I think it was just to keep us busy and like, so we didn't get complacent 100.

Speaker 2: 1:01:47

They're building bombs here, they've got kid the kid suicide. Oh, we're gonna go.

Speaker 1: 1:01:48

Yeah, everybody gets amped and three days of prep.

Speaker 2: 1:01:51

And you get there and you're like there's not even a, there's not even a wire here so we, we went there and that was, um, I forgot what city was that, but that was just west of the the train station. Yeah, okay, so we, what else did we do there? We did a bunch of like. We trained some of the ICDC guys, iraq defense, fucking guys and then we did.

Speaker 1: 1:02:15

What was that like? Because we had to train a lot of the police, so we didn't, we didn't, did we go?

Speaker 2: 1:02:21

I don't think we went on patrol with them, oh, but we. I know you guys did, but we trained them, so it's your guys's fault yeah, it was a shit show. But I will say this to our defense we trained them towards the end of our deployment because you guys were over it.

Speaker 1: 1:02:39

We didn't give a fuck. Yeah, you're like, not our problem, not our problem.

Speaker 2: 1:02:43

It was and um, I, I, I thought like when they, when they look good on, like during the scenarios. But I've seen like some videos where they're just like their kevlar is like all hanging on barely chin strap all over, like I've seen some horror stories of that only way I I can describe this and I hope I don't get canceled for this.

Speaker 1: 1:03:06

But if you took a platoon full of down syndrome adults and kitted them out and then had them patrol with you. That's how we would explain it, because they would just wander off in the middle of a patrol. Then you'd look back and you're like yo, we're missing four dudes. Where are they?

Speaker 2: 1:03:27

I'm glad we didn't experience that. I'm glad we didn't have to. A couple of guys that I know had to deal with that, their second pump. A couple of guys that I know that went to Afghanistan had to deal with some of that shit over there. But when we got there again we didn't know what our mission was like right away, so they kind of were just like throwing us out they told us we were the main effort.

Speaker 2: 1:03:52

But we were like, okay, main effort for what? Yep, they're like, oh, provide security. We were like, okay, whatever. So we did a phase there where we were like, winning the hearts and minds, like I said earlier, passing out soccer balls. We got the shipment full of fucking nerf soccer balls and footballs and we'd go and a bunch of guys just beaming on that. You know, the kids and shit and that's crazy.

Speaker 1: 1:04:15

They had a. They had some really nice soccer balls and hit when we took it over, the kids would kick them over the wall. This is a hilarious story. We're, we're prepped, we're, uh, we're prepped, we're, uh, we're getting her to roll out on like this stupid fucking mission patrol bullshit. But it's Abrams, tanks are staged, then it's our vehicle stage. Our tanks were staged behind the Abrams and we're outside. We're at the train station and he's okay Back. I got to back up. So when we took over from the army, the whole train station was hescoed, right like they put up pesco barriers around the whole train station so they considered that hit, no, we were just on the outside, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:04:49

So we took over the train station and then they had the main base in hit. So we never even really messed with that. We'd go resupply or whatever there. But we, we were the train station and then when we took it over, the army, we're there for, I want to say, like a week or two and they're coming in to resupply us, but they're going to drop it with like the ch43s, you know, like they just dump the food and water. So we get the call like, hey, birds are like two minutes out, lock up, your hatch is going to get dusty, whatever. So everybody's prepping for these birds to come in. Well, we, they're coming. We close up the hatches and they come in. They do their thing and they leave. And so we pop open the hatches and where my vehicle was, I was right next to the hesco barrier and I swing my hatch open and I'm staring at like three kids that are standing there like looking at my vehicle.

Speaker 1: 1:05:38

The army never filled up the hesco barriers with dirt, they just put them up. They were empty the whole entire time. So when these birds came in, the resupply is the wash. The wash knocked over and then it just like dominoed so the whole perimeter fell over because they're all attached. So we spent like the next five days filling hesco barriers because the army, the whole entire time they were there at the train station, never put dirt in the hesco. So this was during that time. The pesco barriers are still like being put up, so the kids were just kicking soccer balls into where we're our base because there's no walls or anything now. So as we're getting prepped to leave this kid, he's kicking the soccer ball around. I was like I get his attention and he throws it. He throws it over to me and this tank is taken off. They're all getting ready.

Speaker 1: 1:06:25

You know we're literally rolling out and I'm on the back of my vehicle and you know, like the back of abrams, it has that exhaust that just like a jet engine that comes out of it yeah dude, I throw my the soccer ball to the tank commander because him and I were buddies and as we're leaving, and they step on it, dude, he tosses that ball behind the tank and it just boom and launches this soccer ball. These kids go chasing it like a mile down the road. It went forever. But yeah, dude, we were, we were leaving the train station and the freaking army is just had the whole entire time, their whole deployment. They were stationed there. They never put anything in the hosco barriers yeah, we.

Speaker 2: 1:07:00

we got there so early that we were taking bottled water showers. Oh yeah, 100% 100%. And burning shit, yep, and then I think maybe halfway they gave us like a couple Port-A-Johns See we never even had that, even after you at the transmission.

Speaker 1: 1:07:21

We never yeah a hit.

Speaker 2: 1:07:22

We had a couple Port johns and then the shit started filling up because the guy that would come and clear it out, um, the thai bank, got him and they were like, hey, listen, if you fucking keep doing this shit, we're gonna kill you and your family. So for like a week that shit was just filled up to the top of just like Lord knows what was in there, mm-hmm. So, and then we had again. We got like this like little conics box with like just showers, yeah, and we got that towards the end of our deployment and you know, we were kind of, you know, grateful for that at the time.

Speaker 1: 1:08:02

Oh dude, I had a solar heater.

Speaker 2: 1:08:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:08:05

That you'd lay out all day and then you'd pop that at night and it was like scalding hot water. It was the greatest. It was the greatest thing I ever brought.

Speaker 2: 1:08:14

We had to we had to put up mre boxes on our windows at night just so they don't see the light from the road and shit. So it was like like you would look on the base and it was like pitch black. You'd probably see like one or two like yeah chem lights. But um, yeah, it was, it was interesting.

Speaker 1: 1:08:32

It was an interesting time, for sure it was an interesting time I was actually telling the girls not too long ago this story sharing shitters with the iraqis, and how horrible it was because we built them their own shitters, because obviously they squat and they mud butt on everything and then they wash their ass with their hand and your hand yep.

Speaker 1: 1:08:53

So there's liquid shit water everywhere and I'll never forget. Dude, it's like three in the morning. I'm in my vehicle, it's freezing. We're there in the winter time, which people don't realize how cold iraq gets. To get dressed and I got bubble guts. Dude, I'm in my vehicle, it's freezing. We're there in the wintertime, which people don't realize how cold iraq gets. Did I get dressed? And I got bubble guts? Dude.

Speaker 1: 1:09:09

I'm running to this little makeshift shitter and I turn the corner, dude, and there's just shit, liquid like cow shit, all over the toilet seat and I'm like you've got to be dude, like no, I'm done. So I go to the next one and there's no doors on them, you know. Next one dude there's this iraqi dude standing there, eye level. I just get a full like crotch shot in the middle of the night. I'm like dude, I'm just this is the worst shit I've ever dealt with. So then, so I ended up just walking off and just squat and shitting and I'm like I'm not dealing with this. So the next day, we literally gave the iraqis all of those port of shitters and we had to build our own and designate them and tape them off and like put locks on them, because those dudes, because we're working with the iraq, because they're, in that time, when we were there that was when the election was it was this huge ordeal. It was all like you had to dip their fingers in this ink and all this shit. It was cool being there for like a part of history. That doesn't, it doesn't matter anymore. But yeah, dude, we had to build our own shitters because those iraqis, bro, were just mud butt on everything and that was. That was the worst part, dude, I remember the army we were.

Speaker 1: 1:10:14

We were on this little fob middle of the desert, it was right outside of ramadi, and this army, like log train, comes, the convoy, comes rolling in. And I never had the luxury unless we went to a base for a proper toilet or anything, showers, nothing. We were just living out of our vehicle. So it was everyday shit for us. Right, we stole a toilet seat. It was so, dude, we, that was gold, that was gold.

Speaker 1: 1:10:43

Motherfuckers would try to steal it off my vehicle at night. We had to chain it. We chained and put a lock around this toilet seat just to throw it over the humvee exhaust, over the antenna. So you know, so you go on the antenna that we'd, we'd lock it to a rack, but I ended up getting the 50 cal can, got the the foam from inside the 40 millimeter, 40 mic mic cans and cut it, do we? It was bougie, right for a toilet seat. People would offer like y'all give you, I'll give you some money, give you money to let me use your shitter so dudes would try to steal it and everything but like. I don't even know where I was going with that story, but it was wild, bro, like just the fact that like a toilet and the luxury and the stuff that you dealt with was such an incredible thing like dudes would be trying to. You'd hear guys on the side of the vehicle and then you go flying out there like wild time it was, it was, it was literally a wild time.

Speaker 1: 1:11:35

It was this is where I was going. Sorry, real quick, bro. We're on this base outside of outside of ramadi and this army convoy comes rolling in and this little dude comes running up to us and he's like hey, where do you guys piss around here? We're like in those tubes. And he's like no, seriously, where do you piss? We're like in the tubes. He's like no, you guys are like dude, I get it Like I really got to piss. So I know the army's got to mess with me, or the Marines, you guys always got to mess with us are the pissers, the mortars.

Speaker 1: 1:12:01

No, he's just like no, seriously, and he didn't. I'm like bro, go over to the tubes and piss in the tube, because you know, did you guys have tubes in the ground? Yeah, so that was like a normal thing where you'd bury tubes deep in the ground. You put there. Those were the pissers. This dude's never pissed in a tube before. He's like where are your bathrooms? And I'm like where do you? That's the bathroom, like go piss in the tube. She's like you guys are, you guys are seriously, you guys are fucking with me and we're all like no, like we're all like this is dead. This is just go piss in the tube. So he goes over there and he's looking at it.

Speaker 2: 1:12:33

He's like investigating um, you could smell it once you, you could see yeah, you could see the rounds wet around each pvc pipe.

Speaker 1: 1:12:41

And, uh, this poor little guy. He's too short to like get his thick level with the tube, so he's. He's like collecting rocks and he's piling this pile of rocks up and he's standing on his tippy toes and we're dying, bro like. And he's looking at us and there's this whole crowd of marines like staring at this little army guy as he's on his tippy toes on a pile of rocks trying to piss in this tube. And he comes, he finally finishes and I'm like you're telling me you. I'm like I go, where do you go to the bathroom? But he goes in a bathroom and I'm like, sorry, he goes, you, they literally this. I'll never forget this as long as I live. This is when I kind of contemplated if I had made the right decision by joining the marine corps. He goes, he goes. You mean to tell me this is how you guys are living and I go, you've, I go. How long have you been in Iraq? He's like almost a year. And I go, you've, you shouldn't have pissed in a toilet.

Speaker 1: 1:13:32

That's when you were like I picked the wrong brand, the wrong mistake, and I was like, bro, I haven't shit on a toilet since I've been in this shit whole country or pissed in it. I'm like he's like, yeah, I've never. He's like I use the bathroom. He's like I'm never stopping in this place again. He's like we will never come back here. And here we are. Luxury that we got a toilet seat strapped to an ammo can, which is like the greatest thing in the world. Here's this army guys never even pissed in a tube. I'm like, bro, we, we are living. We're living two different worlds in this country.

Speaker 2: 1:14:02

It was it's, it's opposite 100 oh man, iraq was uh iraq, fascinating, interesting time fascinating.

Speaker 1: 1:14:11

You just meet different guys along the way and, like their experience, the whole marine corps I mean, I met, I met some really cool dudes, oh, yeah that I still keep in contact with to this day, so um it's incredible the diversity of human beings that join the military. You, you think like everybody's like, same mindset, same background. I'm patriot. Patriot Like I'm going to defend.

Speaker 2: 1:14:36

I think you like, oh man, like the shit we would be able to say back then to each other. I don't know if they still do that now.

Speaker 1: 1:14:48

There's no way.

Speaker 2: 1:14:50

But we used to talk hella shit to each other.

Speaker 1: 1:14:55

The most racist.

Speaker 2: 1:14:58

That's all I can say. The most the racist and guys are just laughing.

Speaker 1: 1:15:01

Call you something back and it was just like all right, whatever, but that's what build the camaraderie 100 dudes just, and I I think I just put a clip out from our last episode, or I don't know if I put it like the, your, your biggest insecurities, the, the, everything that's wrong with you, yeah, things that you're proud of I mean, everything is shit on, destroyed, made fun of, but they're your best friends for doing it. And then and then you have this camaraderie where somebody that's not part of your platoon said something yeah, that I'm I've been belittling you about your since we've met I can do that because we're in the same platoon said something yeah, that I'm, I've been belittling you about your since we've met.

Speaker 1: 1:15:37

I can do that because we're in the same platoon, but then some dude wants to chirp off and everybody like then you're fighting the third deck because they want to make fun of the guy that has a weird walk in your platoon one guy, um in fox company got stabbed.

Speaker 2: 1:15:51

I believe it got, I believe it fucking. You know those small, uh k bars, you know they saw the, the big letter opener one, yeah, but no, no, it was like the mini one, so it was like this big, okay, and there was a big fight and it was field day of course everybody's hammered. Um, I gotta tell you a funny story about field day and uh, there's a big fight that breaks out. He goes up there and he fucking hammered, stabs the dude we're like dude.

Speaker 1: 1:16:21

Why same team you?

Speaker 2: 1:16:24

stabbed him. He's like I didn't do it on purpose. I'm like clearly you went up there with a k-bar sharpen it.

Speaker 1: 1:16:33

what's that? Like the news anchor, he's like I think I chopped somebody's arm off or something. They're like what? Like I have a grenade. You're like why do you have this? That's like, that's that scene right there every field day.

Speaker 2: 1:16:47

So for field day. This is funny that same first sergeant I was telling you about we're having field day. Telling you about we're having field day and, um, I'm I'm sure by now your, your listeners, know what field day is.

Speaker 1: 1:17:03

maybe maybe not, but basically where you clean um immaculate white glove inspection, cleaned room right, yes, so, and the outside? And the outside? Oh yeah, you live in the desert. I live right off the freeway, like my, my barracks touched, like the five freeway, yeah, which is just dust, and so they all day, they're sand all day, and your, your windowsill's got to be white glove cleaned?

Speaker 2: 1:17:28

no, so this first sergeant comes in and he checks two things. So I was living with two other senior guys and this is kind of like when I when I first got in, and he walks in and I was in charge of cleaning the bathroom. So he walks in and he, he looks at two spots, he grabs the rim of the door, he runs his finger across and there's nothing on. It goes good to go. He walks to the bathroom and I shit you not. He takes his hand, he cups it and he goes around the ring of the inside of the toilet with his bare hand. God, and he's like looking at me while he's like scraping it.

Speaker 2: 1:18:17

And I look at my sergeant at the time and I look at him because he stops looking at me. He's like just scraping along and he looked and I look at my, my sergeant. I'm like for sure we failed. I go I didn't clean that, like who cleans, like I did the scrubber, but like underneath, like I go, looks like we're going to have a. You're going to have to see us later on today because we didn't pass. So I'm looking at him like this.

Speaker 2: 1:18:46

I'm like it's the worst feeling he's looking at me like this he's like he's just closing his eyes. He's like he comes out and there's nothing on his hand. Like he's just closing his eyes. He comes out and there's nothing on his hand Nothing. It's like the dust of like the ceramic, like that's all. He goes, washes his hand in the sink, he goes good to go, walks out. I'm like that's the type of field day. Oh that's the type of field day they had.

Speaker 1: 1:19:15

Dude we used to. We started getting scraping gum. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2: 1:19:19

Then if you like you were a smoker, you had to have all the smoke buds.

Speaker 1: 1:19:25

I was like dude, I don't even You'll find me 50.

Speaker 2: 1:19:27

Yeah, I don't even smoke. You put them in your hat. I'm like dude, I don't even smoke.

Speaker 2: 1:19:33

Yeah I'm like dude, I don't even smoke. Yeah, why am I picking this up? This one guy told me he was like before you leave this place the day I got off the bus that I was telling you about they, they, we brought all our shit to our barracks. Everybody's like talking shit to us. They're like fresh man and um, they take us to get our gear at SIF and this guy is walking with us. Fuck, I forgot his name, but total shitbag. You could tell already. This guy was on his way, one foot out the door. He's walking and he lights up a smoke While he's walking While he's walking. Doesn't give a fuck, no more, he's like three weeks out, he's like done, his camis are like snow camis and he's smoking.

Speaker 2: 1:20:21

He's like you guys want to smoke. I'm like, no, he goes. Or I said, no, I don't smoke, he goes, you don't smoke.

Speaker 1: 1:20:28

I go.

Speaker 2: 1:20:29

No, he goes. Do you drink? At least I go, and at the time I wasn't a drinker he goes. I guarantee before you leave this place you're gonna do one or the other. About three weeks into it I went out with the boys and we got drunk, hammered out in palm springs oh god and uh, yeah, so that that was funny.

Speaker 2: 1:20:51

Like I. I I saw that guy. I was like I do not want to be like this guy ever. He was like already out the door. He was like I guarantee you you're gonna do one of these two things.

Speaker 1: 1:21:03

I was like fuck man there's two people that are that come from 29 palms the ones that absolutely love it, which is not very many, and then the ones that it just ruins because it is.

Speaker 2: 1:21:14

I said this before and this is no disrespect and I don't take nothing away from the other units, but 29 Palms Marines are different. They're built different. They're just a different type of Marine. I'm sorry, I'll argue with anyone to the fucking to the death of me. They're just different and you see that, when you like, when we used to train with other units, I'm like, oh okay, yeah, this is why you know because there's nothing to do out there.

Speaker 1: 1:21:50

You guys are trapped, that's it. You're trapped so that you have you're under a magnifying glass from your seniors. You can't escape anybody you're. Let's go to 29 palms training center so it's literally, you step out of your barracks in your, your training yeah you.

Speaker 1: 1:22:06

We used to say that for our mos too, like the track community, because 29 palms and in pendleton we're right, right there, so we do all of our training. They come out and they do their water op. So we're pretty even when it comes to those guys. But like lejeune marines, they're not the same as like us, like we would get lejeune marines that would come out. We'd be like fuck lejeune, because there's, they were just a different breed of marine and they're super serious. Everybody's got a high and tight, like everything's tucked in and perfect. And then they'd come to the you know pendleton and we're all like going to the beach for lunch and everyone's I remember when we first got desert boots.

Speaker 2: 1:22:41

They were because they were like authorized, yeah, we're in the desert and we were like we thought it was the coolest shit in the world because we were like one of the only units not units, but that whole base was one of the only ones that could have desert boots and everyone obviously got the new cambys and shit like that. But yeah, 29 palms marines are just different.

Speaker 1: 1:23:00

They're built different, like totally different, crazy yeah, okay, dude, so you get out, get out of the marine. You decide to get out, that this is, that time comes. Yeah, you had one, one deployment, and that was to to iraq.

Speaker 2: 1:23:13

That was enough for you to not that was enough for me, not because of iraq itself, just because of the way I saw the marine corps and the leadership going which is crazy, because when I came in, which was at what year did you get out?

Speaker 1: 1:23:28

I got out in 05, okay, so I came in right at the end, right in the beginning of 2004, so it even there was. So we even feel for, like our generation, we feel so when I hit the fleet the whole battalion was doing the push, the fallujah push. So then I get to the fleet and it's a ghost town. So when they came back, all hell broke loose. But, like that whole generation, we feel we were like the last good ones, because that was before. You know, the leadership changed the way the Marine Corps started really getting the hazing, even though our MOS was built off of hazing. It lasted much longer, but, like they started doing away with field day. It went to general cleanups or general cleanup on Thursdays instead of doing Chinese field days until 3 o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 2: 1:24:16

Now they're just wiping things down. You don't get the weekend off.

Speaker 1: 1:24:20

Yeah, yeah. Then there's no mass sergeants like walking through in herds inspecting.

Speaker 2: 1:24:24

Listen, I don't want to talk bad about 2-7 or 29 Palms, but I went to a it was the 20-year reunion of us being there and I went over there and we saw some of the barracks, dude, and I was like trash, trash, bro, like I walked into a room. It was my, it was my old platoon. I walked in, um, I met some of the younger marines because, squared away guys, but it was like I walked in a room and I was just like dude, this shit, when I was in, would not fly. No, you guys would be like running up sugar cookie right now well, dude, you go there now.

Speaker 1: 1:25:05

You go now and, dude, they have like teletubby blankets and yeah, like they get like they got all their poster. It's the shit everything's and everything's different it's not like formal like it's just how they want it yeah your bed has to be like this.

Speaker 2: 1:25:22

Your shoe display has to be like this no shower shoes here. Your, your uniforms have to be this this, this, this. It was all like structured away to where. I remember tying boot bands to my bed sheets, yep, to make sure they were tight.

Speaker 1: 1:25:39

Yep, like you go now you could just See, we didn't even sleep under our sheets. We had you slept on top of them. Yeah, I slept. I spent my whole entire career in the barracks sleeping on top. And then you would have a personal blanket Yep, and you would put that away in the morning. And personal blanket yep, and you. You would put that away in the morning, and then you, because I wanted to sleep into the last minute, so I wasn't gonna make my bed every day. I'd do my way.

Speaker 2: 1:26:00

Watch, these dudes are tucking their beds and I'm like we used to have the metal boot bands, yeah, and we should take rings, springs, and we should take them underneath our bed, hook them, hook them, yeah, like six or eight of them, and hook them. And that's what we slept on. That, yeah, and that that's the way it was. Our sheets were clean. We'd iron them, like, and I went into the barracks and like even the duty hut. I was like trash, trash dude, no, no, they just.

Speaker 1: 1:26:25

And the barracks are different. Run down, man does all. The doors are all dead and kicked. They don't have the g-watt money anymore, so I feel they just let it go like with us like I will say our doors.

Speaker 2: 1:26:36

you just push on them and they would open, oh for sure. But but the barracks that I went into, they were newer barracks and the doors are still like that and I'm just like these are some. This is all damage done by some senior guys on field day. Yeah, hammered that are just like kicking indoors. Yep, so yeah, it is what it is yeah, it is, times are changing.

Speaker 1: 1:27:00

For sure we'll bring it back, hopefully so, uh, yeah, I hope so.

Speaker 2: 1:27:03

Um, so I get out of there. I don't know at all what I want to do. So, um, I hit the unemployment and I'm just like chilling yeah chilling at home with my mom, not worrying about nothing. I'm a veteran. I fought for this country. Thank me for my service.

Speaker 2: 1:27:25

Not so much that, but I was like I'm chilling, I deserve a long vacation, right, who the fuck am I? I did that for a while, dude. I did that for like five months where I wasn't doing shit, just collecting a fucking check calling. Finally, I applied to be um, a security guard for a armor truck company how was that?

Speaker 1: 1:27:47

it was cool it was just a job, so you're back in chicago at this point yeah, I'm back.

Speaker 2: 1:27:51

I went back home to chicago and, um, I'm back home in chicago, I get this job and, um, it was just a job it was. It wasn't. There was nothing fulfilling about it. Um, I kind of was like, just you know, rolling with the punches, um, um, and then I applied for the police department and that was in 2006. Okay, so I waited for a while, um, and I I'm trying to think I waited for almost two years before they called me and then, while I was in the academy, I had my, my, my daughter, okay, so I went through the police academy so I ended up taking the the job. I, like I told you before that I, I, um, they hired us and then they told the city, said we don't have money for this um, recruit class, so we're kind of gonna put you on standby right, that's wild, that a department doesn't have the money or the city doesn't have a city that big, you know chicago, so we uh, so.

Speaker 2: 1:29:09

So they were like we'll, we'll call you yeah kind of like I don't know what else to tell you. So I had a buddy of mine who helped me get into Blackwater.

Speaker 1: 1:29:19

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:29:20

So I went with Blackwater and I was there like two weeks and my recruiter called me for CPD and she's like, hey, listen, this is the start date, this, that and the third. And I liked her and I was like, um, I have a family emergency in Puerto Rico.

Speaker 1: 1:29:44

So but meanwhile you're training for Blackwater. Meanwhile I was training for Blackwater.

Speaker 2: 1:29:48

Okay, I only wanted to do the driving course, which are awesome which I heard are awesome. So I was trying to see if I could stretch it so I could finish that course and I could. Okay, I'll, I'll go take the job offer. Well, she's like. Well, if you don't, if you're not here on this date, then we're gonna push through your file and and you've been waiting two years for this- date yep okay so I call, I remember I call my dad and I was like my dad um kind of put it into perspective for me.

Speaker 2: 1:30:19

He's like, hey, dude, this is a job that you're doing, that you're that you're at now, and then this is a career, this is something that you can retire, you have a pension, your kids, this and the third and um, so it's kind of up to you, but I'd take this avenue if I was you. So he kind of told me like hey, listen, he kind of pushed me, um, without without saying too much, he kind of pushed me to be like, hey, listen, do the police, do the chicago police thing? So I was like, all right, cool. So I did that.

Speaker 2: 1:30:56

Um went through the academy, police academy. Um, the police academy was, um, it wasn't too tough, but the the toughest part I would say was um, obviously I'm not a big school guy. Um, so, so, laws, learning the laws and all that. It was getting back into the mindset of being in school again and studying for this and doing this. It wasn't. There was still like prac at where you're going to learn how to shoot, yeah, you're going to learn how to cuff. You're going to learn how to drive. You're going to learn how to drive, you're going to learn how to handle de-escalate situations domestics, robberies, all that but then you had to learn the laws and that's when you had to focus into back to school back to being in school and studying and flashcards and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 1:31:52

You've been out of the game for a bit.

Speaker 2: 1:31:54

Right, right. So the academy was cool. Um, I, I, I went through that and then I got. I got pushed to my first training district, which was the 15 district how is this?

Speaker 1: 1:32:12

is this, is it a good district? Is it?

Speaker 2: 1:32:14

crazy. The district is rocking and rolling, how it's the west side of Chicago, so you're going to get a lot of drugs, pretty much any crime you can think of Robberies, burglaries, csas, which is criminal, assaults um car, uh, carjacking. You're learning quick yeah okay, and I had an awesome fto at the time. Okay, how? So what made him? What made him awesome? He was old school man. He was just like um he, he knew how to let's put it this way, he knew how to bend the rules. But still stay in that gray area.

Speaker 1: 1:32:55

Still stay in that area where you're still covering your ass, which I feel like that's what makes people are probably gonna argue this, but that's to me what makes a good cop is because that's how you get police work, true police work, in certain scenarios and environments. You're not doing it in a rural area pulling over somebody in there, but like I feel like work in chicago. You can't just be like, you can't just do what we, you have to almost get on there.

Speaker 2: 1:33:24

You, you almost got to meet them at their level, okay, and you got to be able you have to be able to, um, not break the rule, but just bend it okay, you know, okay, because that's that's I mean I had, I had an amazing fto, yeah, I could just. You know, we talked off camera and, like he, he just taught me so much.

Speaker 1: 1:33:48

Yeah, so I go into 15, I'm learning everything what's your first day like as a cop with your new FTO District?

Speaker 2: 1:33:57

15. So my first day I wasn't with him. I didn't get to him until oh fuck. So you have to do a year of probation.

Speaker 1: 1:34:08

Damn. Yeah, Are you in the jail or what are you? No?

Speaker 2: 1:34:11

a year of probation, as far as, like you can't get in trouble.

Speaker 1: 1:34:14

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:34:15

So you go through the academy six months and then after that you have a year where it's like you can't fuck up.

Speaker 1: 1:34:23

Really.

Speaker 2: 1:34:23

Yeah, you're at. They call it, excuse me, at will employee, so they'll fucking fire you whenever they want to.

Speaker 1: 1:34:31

Really.

Speaker 2: 1:34:31

Yeah, okay. So if you get in any domestics off duty with your wife, your girlfriend, whatever, gone Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:34:39

If you get a DUI, gone, no questions asked. If you get in a fight at a bar, at a club, gone If you any complaint or disturbance, or you know there's horror stories, guys you know showing their guns and like, just so, if you hit the radar you're done. Yeah, okay, you got to stay underneath the radar, like underneath, okay, and so that's a year long. So I didn't get with my real FTO. So my first day, if you're asking, or my first FTO, so my first FTO, I didn't get with him until about a week later maybe. So my first day was a carjacking. Really, first day, first day was a carjacking. And I'm in the wagon wagon which is the paddy wagon, like a van, yeah, and the call comes out and the guy is literally we're on chicago avenue and the guy's coming up and he wants to call. Comes out, he, the dispatcher, says the call. He's literally passing us up at that time.

Speaker 1: 1:35:57

So the dispatcher just like holy shit, there he is yeah, it was like a divine moment it's.

Speaker 2: 1:36:03

I remember I was and I was working with a female okay time. So she's like, hey, this is what you do, blah, blah, blah, you know she's I. I think we did a couple traffic stops, um, but this was like within the first like two or three hours of me working, so a call comes out. We, we did a domestic that day. But this was the one where, like, I got out, like it was on okay, so I get out the car. So, first of all, the dispatcher says this is a car, gives the description boom, she, I don't see it. She sees it. She sees in her rear view. She's like I think we just passed it. Squad, she calls it. She's like you have a couple more cars start coming our way. So I'm like what do you want to do? She's like I'm gonna go over here and I'm gonna turn around. I'm like he's gonna be gone. I was like just let me out. And she's like are you sure? I'm like, just let me out. This is your first day, first day.

Speaker 2: 1:36:56

This guy's in a car, I'm on foot, but he's in traffic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. So I get out the car and I'm I get out the car and she just takes off. She's like drives off and she hits. She's like, drives off and she hits, so she drives off and she does a whole u-turn, like a three point, like u-turn, and turns on her sirens and I'm like, well, she's trying to do that so everyone could get the hell out of her way. Yeah, so she could come back to where I'm at by that time. The guy I see the guy look in his rear view window. He looks, he sees me on foot and I'm already like going in between cars and he goes out the passenger seat and just books it. Really, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:37:47

He takes off, he starts running. So I start chasing him. But I'm like I'm thinking to myself, I'm like we got the car, stay with the car, should. But I'm like I'm thinking to myself, I'm like we got the car, stay with the car, should I chase them? But I'm thinking this as I'm running. So I hear her say squad, my partner's running this, that and the third. Anyways, the dude jumps a fence and he turns around. He's like man, man, I don't got nothing, don't be mad at me, that's my cousin's car. 'm like all right, dude. So I, I, um, I cuff him immediately and I bring him back and, um, my, my um partner at the time she drove to go find me. So now she's gone. So now everybody's like coming out the woodworks.

Speaker 2: 1:38:37

Yeah, they're like you know. Why are you, you know, arresting this guy, not even knowing the full story of it? So I'm on my radio. I'm like squad, can you just please send me a car over here to the gas station? I'll walk with this guy to the gas station. Can you please send me a car? I'm at the gas station over here. So, finally, just send me a car. Whatever we get the guy on him, you know on his shirt, we charge him.

Speaker 1: 1:39:00

And that was my first like real call in the on my first day did it start to sink in yet, like holy shit, this is going to be out of control that, not that day, the the first day, no, I'm lying.

Speaker 2: 1:39:16

The second day I'm working with my fto. Okay, we were driving, we just finished eating tacos, so we're driving and he goes hey, dude, this is what we're gonna do. He goes, we're gonna run some prostitutes that are on this street. They all got warrants, all right. So I'm like, all right, cool, he just knows, he knows him. So he goes up to the girl. He's like hey, don't you got a warrant? Were you supposed to be blah blah? But when we run a name, check on her, she doesn't got a warrant. So we ran like four or five of them, right.

Speaker 2: 1:39:53

So we're driving back towards, like towards the station, but not to the station, okay. And we get a call that we get a call that person just got shot, right. So we drive and this guy gets shot right in the back of the at pretty much the alley of where the police station is. So we drive around, we get to the alley. When we get to the alley we see two females and they're like he's running that way and we're thinking in our head why aren't you chasing them?

Speaker 1: 1:40:26

but there's one girl with the body, two female cops, or just two female cops okay and they're both with the, with the body, and they're telling you, guys, he ran.

Speaker 2: 1:40:35

They're like he's running, ran. They're like he's running that way. They're like he's running that way. So we're like this is all hindsight, I'm thinking about this, but at the time I was like let's go. Yeah, yeah, this is my second day with my FTO. So we're driving around, we can't find this guy, like I don't know.

Speaker 2: 1:40:58

Maybe two or three minutes pass by and we go over the radio and we're like hey, squad, can you, can you um, ask the caller who called out the person shot? Can you ask um or no? We say, are there any more calls that came out for this? And she goes dispatcher should have said this, but she didn't at the time. She goes yeah, a person just said someone ran through her yard and he's, and he's across the street and he's on the porch and he doesn't live there. I go cool, put it in our box, we'll handle it.

Speaker 2: 1:41:31

So we drive around to where this guy's at. Well, when we get to the house, I don't see anybody there. So I immediately beeline to this guy who's raking his leaves and he kind of looks at me. He gives me the oh, really, the guys over there. And I turn around and I see my partner at the time chasing this dude through a gangway, chasing this dude through the through a gangway, and the dude tries to climb over the fence and my partner just goes with him through like tears down the fence, through the fence mm-hmm falls down and um falls down.

Speaker 2: 1:42:09

We grab them, cuff them, we we flip him over. This dude is having an asthma attack. No shit really. Yeah. So like he's like can't breathe. He's like his face is turning all different colors. So my partner goes in his pocket, finds out he's got an asthma spray, so he gives it to him. The dude's like pretty much can't even pick up his hands. So my partner gives him two pumps. Long story short, this guy dies. Really. He dies Second day with my FTO. So three days before that, my fto tased a guy who was fighting with the police because he had just swallowed dope. He was fighting with the police after because the police were like trying to arrest him because he put some dope in his mouth. Yeah, he's fighting with the police. So my fto comes on scene and at this time there was only a certain amount of people that had tasers. Now the whole department has them. Fto gets there, tasers the guy.

Speaker 1: 1:43:22

He chokes, he dies so your fto has two bodies in three days and less than a week.

Speaker 2: 1:43:31

So this time it kind of like he kind of like fucked him up because he was kind of like I. So they usually give you like a couple days off. Yeah, something happens like that like two days, three days. So now they're like talking to him like, bro, you need like a week, bro, like we need a yeah, you need a watcher, yeah yeah, they put me with and they used to do these round tables to where they.

Speaker 2: 1:43:53

They take you and they take me. We're partners. They ask you certain questions, they ask me and make sure our stories are good. So when I get there, when, when this guy is dying, my fto is like hey, just, I'm nervous. This is my second day like we didn't do shit wrong, like we did nothing. Nothing. He did everything by the book. We call the ambulance and he's like hey, dude, you gotta go talk to the dicks, the detectives. And I'm like that's what we call them, the dicks. No, seriously, we call them dicks. I've never heard anybody refer to them, never. No, yeah, we call them the dicks. You never heard that. No, that's hilarious. So he's like, hey, you got to go talk to the dicks. And I, hey, you gotta go talk to dicks. And I'm like all right. He's like, hey, just tell him what happened. I go okay, that's what I was planning on doing anyways. Yeah, so I get with these old school coppers and I get in the car. They're like, hey, kid, what do you want for your last meal? Really?

Speaker 2: 1:44:48

you start shitting your pants. At this point I'm like what do you mean? They're like oh, dude, you killed a guy. Like guy died on your. You're fucked. You're done Like you're done. That's it. And I'm like, uh, they're like hey, listen, burger King gives us free Whoppers. We got you. So they stopped at Burger King, give me a Whopper. I can't even eat. So so I get to the area to talk to the dicks and I basically tell them exactly what happened and boom, we're clear from that. So that was my whole time in 15. It was wild, it was crazy.

Speaker 2: 1:45:28

Right before my probation is over, they send me to 16, which is night and day, to 16, which is night and day. Really, 16 is police officers, firefighters, city workers okay, firefighters kids, police officer kids okay, it's like night and day. It's like the west side of chicago and the north side, like night and two different worlds. Two different worlds. Okay, now I will say there's a lot of shit that you could get in 16, but it's like in 15. On the west side you can almost walk out blindfolded and grab someone and they're dirty. Really, yeah, in 16, you gotta work for it, if that makes sense. Okay, you gotta do. You gotta do some serious police work.

Speaker 1: 1:46:15

Okay, it's to get some, you're learning a whole other side of policing now okay, whole other side of it, the whole other side of policing. Well, so if you're in this now I don't want to say upper class community, but if it's all cop kids and firefighters and all that shit, so now are you dealing with cops kids? Are you arresting firefighter kids and firefighters? We're dealing. We're dealing with that, we're dealing with the the coppers.

Speaker 2: 1:46:44

Kid who's drunk firefighters. Kid who's drunk city worker. Kid who's drunk domestics um.

Speaker 1: 1:46:53

So how are you learning this policing? Because I don't want to say there's a code in, because I'm not speaking for cops, because I'm not law enforcement. But is there a code when you know someone's kid, or is it by the book or depends on who you're with or the police officer? So everything.

Speaker 2: 1:47:13

How I used to do things is is everything is based on my interaction with you, okay, okay. And there's this thing, that with the police officers, where it's up to me if I want to write you a ticket, yeah it is. It's up to me if I want to write you a ticket, yeah it is. Now, if you're respectful and, um, you know you did wrong or whatever, um, I can give you a pass. I'll be like sure, no problem, you're not an asshole to me. Hey, listen, you ran a stop sign, or that's for we're talking about traffic here. Okay, um, I'll be like, yeah, you, you know, but there's times where if, if I come and I'm interacting with you and you're a total jag off off off the top, then whatever I initially stopped you for, which is legit, now I'm gonna probably write you for it and you're and you anything else you could probably yeah and if you want to keep going, you know but, but I always keep it just fair for

Speaker 2: 1:48:17

sure, like you, you're like, if you're having a bad day, don't have a bad day for these five minutes while I'm interacting with you, because it's gonna fuck up this whole thing. Like you, I feel that's fair, it's 100 fair. And anyone who says it's not, it's, it's bs, it's, it's. You know, you, I'm not, we're not in the, we're not. Listen, we don't make the law, you know. We just enforce it. We don't make it. All these rules, all this, all this shit, that these are all lawmakers.

Speaker 1: 1:48:50

If you want to change it, go out and vote that's, I feel, my biggest problem with people that are protesting everything that's going on now and like there's such a hatred for cops which I get because there's everything's filmed and all we're seeing is the negative side of it, but it's it's. It goes down to if just being fair and and and you guys aren't writing the laws, you're not coming up with these laws, but people want to hate you for it because I think a lot of forcing the law.

Speaker 2: 1:49:22

I think a lot of the laws are kind of like stupid at times. You know 100, but it's, it's. It's gives me the right to stop you, probably because I mean I mean listen if like a tinted window, I think tinted windows Stupid.

Speaker 2: 1:49:37

Is one of the dumbest. Another one that I think is stupid is anything I don't know if it's here, but anything that's hanging from your window, your rear window. Yeah, it's a distraction, obstruction of view. Yeah, it's called. I can stop you for that. No seatbelt, listen, if you want to go through the front window of your car, it's on you. I mean, I, I mean, but those are all reasons I can stop you.

Speaker 1: 1:50:04

Yeah, and you think a lot of those are written just just for the advantage of cops. I don't know, I don't know, like I mean some, some graduating kids tassel that's hanging out right then and there, okay, you see some kid and you're like all right, beat up car, that's all you need.

Speaker 2: 1:50:21

I mean, I never thought of it like that, because I'm thinking of it of of a law enforcement side, but you, I mean maybe, yeah, maybe that's what are you?

Speaker 1: 1:50:30

how are you looking at it? I mean, is is a? Is a dice hanging from that much of an obstruction?

Speaker 2: 1:50:37

absolutely not, but but. But here's the thing. Let's say I'm looking at, at a guy, okay, and this dude is. I seen him circle the block like 15 times you know, this guy's either selling selling dope or he's looking at whatever. How am I going to stop you? Oh, this guy didn't come to a complete stop at the stop sign.

Speaker 1: 1:51:02

It's that easy.

Speaker 2: 1:51:03

Now I walk up to the car, he don't got a seatbelt, he's got the graduation tassel hanging. That's three things already. Now the first thing out of his mouth is why the fuck did you stop me? What's your probable cause? It's like hold on, dude. Here's how this interaction's gonna go. I'm gonna try to find out why you're driving around the block for for the past 15, 20 minutes now you don't have to tell me why. I'll just write you these three tickets and we'll call it a day.

Speaker 1: 1:51:35

So it's give take.

Speaker 2: 1:51:37

It's give take, let's meet each other right here. If you're on bullshit I've done this a lot of times If you're on bullshit, tell me you're on bullshit and I'll be like all right, cool, here's your ticket, here goes your pass. Oh yeah, I'm talking about like bullshit, okay. Okay, where I'm talking about like bullshit, okay, you know where I'm like all right, I know, I know, you know, I know you got something on you or whatever. Whatever, at least you're honest with me. Listen, if I go through your car and I find it now, I'm going to impound it because I'm giving you opportunity to come clean.

Speaker 1: 1:52:09

So were there times, as, as you know, when, when being in the field, are there times where you would come across people and they just admit having something on them and you just confiscate it, let them roll, or do you have to arrest?

Speaker 2: 1:52:20

no, no, I I don't even try to put myself in the situation I. I like, if I'm going to ask you and I almost there's a lot of, there's a big, there's a, there's a heavy chance that I kind of know you're going to bullshit me. I hear that a lot from cops.

Speaker 1: 1:52:39

They know immediately if you're on it or not.

Speaker 2: 1:52:42

Because I'll ask you in other ways. I'll ask you like once or twice, like, hey, anything's car, you're not supposed to Blah, blah, blah. Oh no, no, no, you sure you got nothing on you? Sure, you sure. No, I got nothing on me, are you sure?

Speaker 1: 1:52:57

no, I don't know me, don't people?

Speaker 2: 1:52:58

start reaching and like feeling, if, like when you ask are there signs? What are you looking for?

Speaker 2: 1:53:01

hands, hands kill people so I'm always watching hands. Okay, that makes sense. Hands are what's gonna get you killed. It's not gonna be nothing else. Okay, in order for that dude to get to a gun, a knife, anything, his hands have to get to it first. So that's why. So I'm always watching hands. Okay, where your hands are, how your hands are where, what are you doing with your hands? If your hands like this, like I'm always like when I was doing street stops and traffic stops, I'm always watching this.

Speaker 2: 1:53:28

Okay, that's why a lot of cops are like hey, do me a favor, just keep your hands on here where I can see them, for sure some guys like it outside the window, on the steering wheel, on top of the hood of the car and inside, but that's just so they can see this. Are you looking?

Speaker 1: 1:53:45

for handshaking, what's okay. So as a cop, and you're pulling somebody over what, what are you looking for when you're obviously hands?

Speaker 2: 1:53:53

what am I stopping you for? Okay, you know. Okay, what am what, what's it? You gotta, you gotta, paint a picture. What am I stopping you for? I mean like, what?

Speaker 1: 1:54:01

what are tall tale signs that, like you're, you're going to dig a little bit. What is, when you walk up to a window, what? What are signs that somebody's doing that you makes you trigger that little in your mind where you're going to just dig a little? I have some ways.

Speaker 2: 1:54:17

But I'll tell you some of the ways. But I would just ask you a bunch of questions. Okay, you know. Now it's up to you if you want to answer them or not. Sure, here's the thing I already have enough to write you the ticket, which is which is you can just be like man fuck you, pound sand yeah, I don't want to talk to you, no problem.

Speaker 2: 1:54:36

Driver's license insurance boom, write you a ticket for running the stop sign, eating the red light, whatever. My initial um problem call stop for the stop was um, once I come up to the car it's all based on the interaction. Now I'm gonna dig if you're kind of, if you're kind of starting out up here with me yeah, if you're escalated immediately, yeah man, what the fuck you stopping me for?

Speaker 2: 1:55:03

man, I didn't do shit. You even got probable cause. I've heard it all. What's your badge number? Dude? I haven't even said nothing to you yet. What you stopping me for. Can I get there? You know what I mean. So the now that now you brought it up here. Yeah, so now I'm like okay, this, I guess this is how this interaction is gonna go, instead of just being like hey, officer, hey, I don't did, I do anything. Yeah, you went and stopped sign license insurance. Man, I didn't even know. Here goes my license insurance. I apologize, I didn't even know. You know, now you might get a cop like me. That'll be like all right, man, it's all good, let me just run your name. Make sure you got no warrants. You'd be on your way, or? Man dude, listen, you're gonna have to get this ticket. I'm not gonna write you for two because you got this, you got that. There's a bunch of shit fucked up. Your taillights off.

Speaker 2: 1:55:56

Cracked windshield, Everything. I'll just write you for no seatbelt or whatever which is going to get thrown out Really.

Speaker 1: 1:56:03

Yeah, in.

Speaker 2: 1:56:04

Chicago 100%, really, yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2: 1:56:10

But if you're like this, you're already starting off the wrong foot, buddy so what you're saying is when being pulled over, don't come out the gate, just be even badge number I even if, even if you'll run into some asshole cops for for sure, 100 for sure like if you're speeding and you're fucking running through red lights and and they hit the lights and you still don't stop, and finally you decide, all right, I'll stop, you'll run into a cop that's pissed off, or you'll run into a cop that's having a bad day.

Speaker 1: 1:56:45

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:56:45

Plain and simple. I used to tell people this all the time, like family and friends. I said listen, even if you think the cop's wrong, just do what he's telling you to do. His badge number, his name, his star, all that shit's going to be on a ticket.

Speaker 1: 1:57:01

Go and make a complaint.

Speaker 2: 1:57:02

That's the only way you're going to win it. The moment you run your mouth, he's going to write you for this, write you for that, write you for this, write you for that. Even the most asshole cops that I've seen now I'm just speaking on myself even the most asshole cops somewhere will say listen, this guy's got five things I could write him for, probably even impound his car. I'm just gonna write him for one or two. It is what it is. Yeah, I could write him for this.

Speaker 1: 1:57:31

Yeah, or I could write him for all of it. How many people, how many people that you pull over, how many of them have warrants? I feel like when I watch cops, every son of a bitch on that show has a war. That's like don't ruin cops for me. Tell me that.

Speaker 2: 1:57:51

Don't tell me that shit's fake no, but there's 40 stops that happen before that one warrant stop. Okay, okay, you know. So people just miss court sometimes and judge issues a warrant. Yeah, it's not necessary. You don't always have a warrant for something like a robbery, a homicide or something like that. You might've just missed a court date. Got a traffic warrant, that's a. Hey, listen, man, you got a traffic warrant, you got to come with us get the shit situated, see the judge, they'll knock it down, or whatever. You missed your court date, man, I made that court date. Oh well, hey, listen, you're going to have to deal with that with the courts.

Speaker 1: 1:58:30

How often when people are like I took care of it, I took care of it, I took care of how often that was it actually taken care of, or is it? Never taken care of I mean, have you ever taken care of so?

Speaker 2: 1:58:41

you've never seen it. I'm trying to think that it's like.

Speaker 1: 1:58:44

I don't even think it's 50, 50, a lot, because I mean, do you ever bring anybody back and then they run them like oh, it has been taken care of, has it ever been a glitch? Yes, okay, but very, very rare.

Speaker 2: 1:58:56

So every time like I was there, sometimes the warrants not, um, uh, like let's say you got a warrant, it's not extradite, so. So let's say he's got a warrant for idaho, okay, they're not going to extradite him on it, so it'll pop up on our thing, but they're not going to hold them for it, okay. So that just means listen, you're good here, but just so you know, you go to idaho, you get stopped, you're going to jail yeah you know there's.

Speaker 1: 1:59:21

I've ran into that a bunch of times which is so crazy to me that if you have just not going, to pay for it oh you're not worth that crime to them.

Speaker 2: 1:59:30

Now, if it's a homicide, uh, uh, a csa, which is a rape, um, like something like that, they're going to extradite you for sure, okay yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:59:40

So you'll get that a lot. So what was I so? Yeah, so I went to 16, night and day, like I'm saying Yep. Then a buddy of mine was like hey, dude, my um knows some guys. So so here's how it works. I'm on probation. I got two months before I'm on probation. You're supposed to work with an fto at all times I go to 16.

Speaker 2: 2:00:10

When I get to 16, I'm with another guy who's on probation with me. There's two probies together. So, listen, so I'm in 15. So while you're on probation, they can move you wherever they want. Yeah, because you're on probation. Once you're there and you're off probation, they can't move you. You got to bid to another district, okay, okay. So right before it was time for me to bid, I had months before I'm stuck in 15. They moved me to 16. So now I know I'm staying in 16. If I really wanted to, I could still my whole career there, yeah. So they sent me with another one of my buddies that was in class with me. So we get there and we tell the the, the timekeeper who writes the schedule, like hey, listen, we were partners in 15. She's's like oh, okay, has no idea, we're two PPOs, no Probation officers.

Speaker 1: 2:01:00

No, we're partners no.

Speaker 2: 2:01:04

So two months and we're basically handling all these calls that are like and all we did was like hey, listen, call the Sarge a domestic with a firefighter and a cop, or you know a cop, you know, beat the shit out of his kid or whatever Domestic. Hey, sarge, why don't you come over here to this job? Oh, really, what you want us to do? A lot of guys would be like well, you can't do your job, you know how to handle it. Well, I will tell them F you, you know why? Because Chicago's different, chicago's totally different. Chicago, since back in the day, has always been corrupt. Okay, political mob ties. Yeah, like, listen, dude, that shit still runs. It still runs. Listen, let the sergeant handle a sergeant what you want me to do. So you want me to arrest him, no problem let's go.

Speaker 1: 2:02:12

So you're talking more on the blue, on blue or any other first responders, instead of just because I? I don't want to speak for law enforcement, but there's that unspoken code where some cops will just hook a cop up you're, it doesn't matter if it's your chief or not they're, they're arresting them. Which is, I guess, when you say by the book cool, right, that's, you're doing your job, I don't have nothing against guys that do that either.

Speaker 2: 2:02:36

It's your job. But there's no rule against me calling my Sarge. I mean like, hey, sarge, what do you want?

Speaker 1: 2:02:46

to do.

Speaker 2: 2:02:47

What do you think we should do? Huh, you know, I have some Sarges that'll be like, hey, whatever you want to do. And I've had some Sarants that will be like, hey, whatever you want to do. And I've had some sergeants that will be like, hey, lock them up, or get signed complaints and then lock them up. I've had both. So I can't knock. When guys say, oh, the blue on blue, I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm not saying that there are some guys that will never lock up a cop, no matter what.

Speaker 1: 2:03:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:03:20

But there is nothing against and guys and I'll get pushback on this there's nothing against asking the serge hey, serge. What do you think I should do in this situation? That's it. All you're doing is asking.

Speaker 1: 2:03:33

Yep.

Speaker 2: 2:03:34

That's it. Are you doing this Asking? Yep, that's it. And the Sergeant be like hey, this is what I think you should do. Yeah, you know. Okay, sky, sky's got more time on a job than me. Okay, maybe this guy knows this guy, whatever, but he's giving me advice. That's it here's.

Speaker 1: 2:03:56

I guess here's a question to go off of that. Let's say you do arrest another cop or a senior cop. What's the backlash that comes with that? Have you seen repercussions? Or does that show your department that you're that guy and then everybody kind of Do you ever see any of?

Speaker 2: 2:04:11

that I'm afraid to say, but yes, I've seen both okay avenues of that. There was a guy in the district that I worked in that used to he would dui anybody okay, which I'm.

Speaker 1: 2:04:23

I'm one of those people if you're, because I got kids on the road 100 obama drove through.

Speaker 2: 2:04:28

He would dui. Oh, he does not care who you are, what you do for a living, who you know, he doesn't care. See, I agree with that, and right and, and then there there's guys that push back on that. They were like oh, watch this guy, blah, blah this. Then the third, you know, and I, I look at it two ways. I look at it the way you're saying, and then I look at it like you, you, you cannot. If you're targeting it, it's different. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Speaker 2: 2:05:02

if you're going out there saying I'm just gonna get coppers, oh, yeah, yeah I'm like, but if you're gonna let all the other dui guys go by, then that's no, I have a problem there, for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:05:16

They'd be just an asshole at that point, right.

Speaker 2: 2:05:19

But I've seen guys complain about it and be like oh man, this guy is blah, blah, blah and I'm like. So the guy that I'm talking about, his niece- Gave her a ticket no DUI, sheriff T-boned. Ticket no dui, sheriff t boner. And killed her. Oh, he's got a chip. Oh, okay, yeah, so he's not letting nothing slide, okay, you know, yeah, I worked with him once and he said he goes, I don't care he goes, I'll dui you. And I was like I respect that, okay, yeah fair enough, yeah you know, um.

Speaker 2: 2:05:55

So yeah, I mean, does the blue, thin blue line thing exist? Yeah, but I I think it's, it's. I don't think it's as how can I put it? I don't think it's as crazy as like civilians might say it is.

Speaker 1: 2:06:14

I've heard guys say this, that the the some, a lot of law enforcement, doesn't think that, then the blue line exists at all. It's more of a civilian do, I think yeah, do I think?

Speaker 2: 2:06:23

do I think? What I'm talking about is cops taking care of cops yeah, exactly deals like that yeah do I think that exists in law enforcement around the world? Come on, you know it does, just in my experience. Um, do I think it's as big as they make it out to be? No, no, because if a cop's doing you know his job, he's he's. He hates cops that are assholes, for sure. You know. If a cop's an asshole, that's our biggest enemy. Is that guy for being an asshole?

Speaker 1: 2:06:56

yeah, so because that's what the that's what the community's seeing and dealing with. And then you come along and you could be a very fair cop 100. Yeah, I'm gonna match your energy. Let's. Let's chill right now and just have this conversation. You'll be on your way. But instead they get that guy prior and he's just drilling and being that asshole and digging and just asking the questions and harassing yep because that's just who he is as a cop, like, yeah, that those are the dudes that need to be winged out.

Speaker 1: 2:07:23

And I feel those cops that are the asshole cops. They're the cop at that five to eight year mark when they started to realize that being a cop wasn't for them because it was cool at first, and then they the reality sets in of how shitty of a job it is now. They're miserable. Instead of getting out, they stay in and then just chips, and then they become that cop that everybody hates and that even the guys in the department can't stand yep, you're right, dude, I I've I've worked with, oh man, I've worked.

Speaker 2: 2:07:56

I worked with some great officers and I worked with some guys where I'm just like, please don't let me work with this guy again. Yeah, you know, and that's the scary part, my buddy worked with a dude that sat in the car for six hours in a parking lot, wouldn't do anything, coded out jobs, what do you mean? So he got out, he left roll call, got into the squad car. They went to go get coffee, came right back parked in the parking lot for six hours they only handled like two jobs the whole night. Every job they got. The FTO would just clear it out.

Speaker 1: 2:08:35

How do you get away with that?

Speaker 2: 2:08:38

don't know is there. I honestly don't know is this is, and this is back before there was gps on the cars okay, okay cameras. Yeah, I'm talking. Okay, you know when I first got it yeah so this is going way back, okay?

Speaker 1: 2:08:52

oh wait, okay that makes sense yeah, so um I'd be sleeping all night too yeah, so uh, I'm sure things have changed a lot.

Speaker 2: 2:09:01

Oh, big time big time a lot for the good, you know for the good, especially when. Are you pro body cam? Um, I'm not pro, or or any of that. I think it serves its purpose. I think it does it. It does listen. If you're doing your job, it's it's, it's not going to harm you at all. But then here's the thing if I'm having a conversation, it has a buffer time. If I'm having a conversation and I'm talking about you know, some girl I was with last night, or me and my wife having a problem, or you know, and they pick that up, I think that's when it's like, man, you're kind of that's a private conversation.

Speaker 2: 2:09:41

I'm having, me and my partner talking yeah and um, sometimes I've heard those things play out in court, you know, just to be a-holes, that you know um state's attorneys will, you know, play the whole thing instead of just playing the pertinent part of it you know, because that's where you hear a lot of kickback from cameras, from body cams is that when we first got cameras, dude.

Speaker 2: 2:10:04

There was guys belly flopping to break them. Really. There was guys getting in chases and then falling on their camera, on their camera just to, just to break them, like straight belly flop, just oh like belly yeah, breaking cameras were breaking left and right. Just hardcore falls like with all your gear on yeah just cracking them no shit yeah at the beginning.

Speaker 1: 2:10:36

Now it's already every year you're, you start with it it is what it is they're not going to wear.

Speaker 2: 2:10:42

Now there's cameras everywhere um that's all that's.

Speaker 1: 2:10:45

My biggest thing is like I don't. I, like you said, if you're doing your job as a cop, there should be no problem with the camera, but then you're hearing these guys like crack a joke, say some stuff, and now their departments are using that against them, or just talking to um, talking to guys in a way where you have to get some you, you have to get some through them. See, people don't listen. People argue that, though I, this is a, this is a controversial topic.

Speaker 2: 2:11:17

If I talk to you, okay, you're different. So, but just imagine, you don't live on the west side, and so if, if I'm talking to somebody that always has running with the police, okay, I'm not gonna I'm not necessarily I'm not gonna disrespect them or violate any of their rights, but I'm gonna be a different type of stern than I am with somebody else who I could say hey, listen, I need to see your driver's license. Okay, no problem, sir, here you go. Man, why the fuck you need to see my driver's license? I ain't showing you shit. All right, we'll play this fucking game. You know, I'll play this game. Listen, I get paid. No matter what happens today, I'm going to get paid. So I'll play this fucking game with you all day. If you want to play this fucking game, you're going to give me your fucking license. Before this interaction's over, you're going to give me your license, so we'll stay here all day. We'll play this fucking game. But that talking to them might change their attitude okay does, does that make?

Speaker 1: 2:12:28

sense, a hundred percent makes sense to me. But I've posted things like this topic before and it is a very controversial topic in the police world because there's a lot of cops that claim in their whole career and I call bullshit, as I'm not a law enforcement officer, but I call bullshit on it that a cop can sit there and state that he can talk to Betty Boop the same thing that he's talking to some gangbanger thug no, betty boop, the same thing that he's talking to some gangbanger thug no. And they do like I've. I've spent a whole career and I've never I've talked to everybody the same, because this is we I learned it on this podcast is code switching and where you're talking, you you're going to talk to me differently, you're going to talk to some thug, right, but there's people that come and talk to my partner a different way you're I'm.

Speaker 1: 2:13:13

You're're gonna talk to my wife in the car different than you're gonna talk to me in the car.

Speaker 2: 2:13:17

But but my let me be very clear my first interaction, my initial interaction with you is the same okay hey, what's going on, guy, whatever your name is, but you know I already ran your plate, hey, what's? Hey, man, listen, you ran the stop sign back there. Driver's license, insurance, man, that's it. Something, something to that aspect. You know nothing where I'm coming out up here. Now, if you're coming out here, I have to match that.

Speaker 2: 2:13:50

For sure if I'm still like sir. But I understand you're upset, sir, but we're not going to get anywhere with this shit. You understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 2:13:58

Yeah, for sure, so I'm going to come out right here, cause this is my job to be a professional to come out on this level. I'm hoping now this is not a good interaction, right, because I'm stopped. The police is stopping you. No one ever calls the police for a barbecue. Yeah, yeah, it's always a domestic. There's always some crazy shit going on in your life, or you're calling the police, or something just happened to you trauma, whatever the case is. So I'm hoping that we can meet at this, this point.

Speaker 2: 2:14:25

But I kind of know that if you bring it up here, I have to match that in order to to get control of this situation. Somebody called me in this house because there's a domestic. Yep, obviously you two fuckers can't figure this out. So you called me and I'm here now and I'm going to make sure there's some type of control so I can figure out what's going on with her, with you. Is there any weapons in here, anything like? I have to have control of the situation Absolutely, because there's no control, because if there was, you wouldn't call me. So if you match that person or I'm saying, if you don't match that person you're not going to get anywhere with that individual.

Speaker 2: 2:15:07

They're just going to keep spinning you over and over and over and over again and then eventually you'll learn. Eventually there's guys that still stay here and then you know, a couple months on the job, they're like listen, motherfucker, now you're getting out of the car. It is what it is yep yeah, so I, I, um, I did so, I got. So that was in 16. So my buddy's like, hey, there's a saturation unit coming up, um, there's an opening for a saturation unit what is that you?

Speaker 2: 2:15:38

want to go. Saturation basically is you are saturating, there's an area of five districts and you're saturating wherever the highest crime is. Excuse me, wherever the highest crime is, you're going to saturate that area. Oh, okay, that makes sense. So my buddy's like, hey, my uncle, he's got some pool, he could get us on a saturation unit. Now we're fresh out of probation. Everyone that we were in the academy with are kind of still in the districts learning patrol and all that shit. I'm like, yo, this is like a step up, yeah, let's do it. So I'm like, yeah, let's do it. Boom, we put in, we get on.

Speaker 2: 2:16:16

Saturation, had a blast, why we're we're? We're not handling jobs, so so we're not tied to the radio. So if a job comes out, you have beat cars. So usually the beat cars are in the district and when a job comes out, they'll be like hey, you know, bans residents, there's a domestic, so there's a beat car for this area that handles that job. Okay, now if something happens, he's going to call for backup. You might get a rapid response car that'll help out, or any other you know dish beat car might come and assist with you. Or saturation, so we kind of get to bounce around wherever the, wherever the crime is, we kind of get to go wherever we want so you're putting yourselves in the eye of the storm when it comes to crime.

Speaker 2: 2:17:06

Yes, throughout the city, so wherever there's hot spots, what they tell us they're like hey, listen, there's five districts, okay, okay, out of these five districts there's usually not all of them are up going up, and what I mean by going up is like there's there's, there's a gang war, there's narcotics through the roof, so they'll flare like 15 will pick up for a little bit, then so on Okay.

Speaker 2: 2:17:30

So once we get into work we're like oh okay, we get a bulletin that says hey, you know, last night there was a shooting on such and such block. These guys are probably going to retaliate. You know, make sure you guys are in the area in case something happens. So now we go to that area, we saturate it, street stops.

Speaker 1: 2:17:46

Traffic stops. It's more of a show of force. You're just there, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:17:50

Okay. So now we're getting contact cards, basically to show force and make sure nothing happens. Obviously, shit happens, shit happens. So I did that for a while, had a blast doing that and my partner was like dude. I want to go back to 15. I'm like what. I was like dude. We got it made here.

Speaker 1: 2:18:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:18:15

We got our own car. We go to lunch whenever we want um.

Speaker 2: 2:18:20

You're not like being micromanaged, they're not chasing the radio. So when you got a b-car, when you get a job on on your p-cat, you got to go to the job. Whether it's a cat in the in the fucking tree or whether it's a guy shooting up a you know a dude in a car, whatever it is, you got to handle that job, yeah, and you got to have paperwork. Okay. When you're on saturation you're kind of like bouncing around like hey, where you got, where do you want to go today? Oh, let's go to 14. There's a street festival over there. We could go have something to eat. Then we could, you know, head over to 15 there.

Speaker 2: 2:18:54

There there's a block party over there, something like kickoff, yeah, okay so my buddy wanted to go to 15 because he wanted to be assigned to it. So we were still assigned to 16 okay so if they were to disband that unit they would send us back to 16. But he wanted to be assigned so if they were to ever disband it he could go back to 15. But the catch is is if he gets a side, if he goes back to 15, he stays in 15. He can't come back on saturation.

Speaker 2: 2:19:21

Oh, yeah you'd have to reapply to it and his uncle just got him there, yeah, so he's probably not going to come back. So he decided to do that and I stood on saturation. And then from there I hated days and I was working in a three-man car. So I went to it's called a area midnight tag team three dudes in a car I wasn't. That was on saturation. Oh, okay, then from there I hated days and my partner left. So I was like can I go on the night saturation team? And they were like no, no, you can't, it's already filled. But there's a spot opening up on the area midnight tag team.

Speaker 2: 2:20:03

So you know Dom's cousin, anthony Torres? No, so he was on that team at the time. Okay, but he was on the Westside team. I was on the the uh, west side team. I was on the area five team. So he, basically what you're doing there is you're, you're dealing with search warrants, you're dealing with dope, kind of the same same thing. You're dealing with saturation. But now you're you're you're getting cis guys that are giving you information okay they're telling you hey, this guy's selling dope over here.

Speaker 2: 2:20:34

Now you're building cases. Now you're, you're um, and you're actually writing up search warrants and arrest warrants and stuff like that. What's it like working?

Speaker 1: 2:20:44

with a confidential or uh, what do you?

Speaker 2: 2:20:47

call cia, um, so I didn't. I didn't. So, on that unit, I was only there for a month, okay, and they disbanded the unit, oh damn. So I didn't get to build a. I had CIs when I went on to be on the task force, okay, but when I was there I didn't have CIs, yeah. So I was learning all this. I was like super green, was kind of just rolling with the punches, was excited to be on the team, yeah, and they disbanded it. And when they disbanded it I went back to 16, okay.

Speaker 2: 2:21:20

So I was in 16 and this is when I knew I was like I can't stay here. I'm in 16 and I'm at this time I'm bouncing around with different partners my partner's back in 15, like I said, and I put into for the 25th district. I didn't get it. So I stood another period, which is pretty much like a month in 16. I hated it. Why? Here's the reason why I knew I couldn't stay there. I came in one day and I had like minimal activity. So I had like two traffic stops that I made and like three contact cards, which is like if you're working on the West side, they're going to be like dude, that's nothing, go back out there and give me some more activity. You know like do some police work, but in 16, they don't call the police that much because it's relatively yeah you're a good neighbor you know I'm saying pretty good neighborhood.

Speaker 2: 2:22:20

For the most part there's a lot of uh burglaries like garage burglaries and stuff okay but you'll get your riffraff, that flow in flow in yeah so and I put down my, my activity. And this old timer I heard him from the background. He's like, hey, slow down, kid, save some of that for us. I was like, and I laughed it off, but in my head I was like I gotta get the fuck out of here. That's activity to you guys. That's like that's equivalent to being like a shit bag. Yeah right.

Speaker 1: 2:22:57

You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 2:22:58

I didn't do nothing today, yeah, and you guys are telling me to slow down Because you're making them look bad. So that's a great. This was again. I'm talking about a different era, yep, before the cameras and everything. But they were a slow district, got it. And you bring in two or three movers, two or three you know parkers, maybe a contact card here and there, you know a week you're fucking the man really yeah so I was.

Speaker 2: 2:23:33

I I would do like super bare minimum a day and these guys were telling me slow down. I was like, oh shit. I was like I gotta get out of here. So I bid. So what happened was the?

Speaker 2: 2:23:48

the districts opened up again and I bid to go to the 11th district okay and the 11th district is the heart of the west side, so that's like 15 is bad and then 11 is like the mothership. The mothership, okay, it's like everything I just mentioned and like when it goes up, it goes up like there's summertime, there's shootings, there's there's. When it goes up, it goes up Like there's summertime, there's shootings, there's drug transactions. I mean, it's everything that you would think police deal with, from domestics to dudes raping women, to carjackings, to burglaries On the daily, to carjackings to burglaries on the daily to um drugs, narcotic sales, shootings, prostabbings, everything, prostitution, you name, it was everything really yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:24:47

So you're stoked to be there.

Speaker 2: 2:24:48

So I'm like yeah I'm like, okay, here we go, like this is what I asked for yeah so I get there and I don't have a partner and I'm like this, this sucks, you know, I don't have a partner. So I basically meet my partner, jeff, when I'm there. Okay, so I meet jeff when I'm there and he's in trouble already, so they have them working the lockup and, um, I had a ega on my vest and I brought some guy to the lockup for something and just this, this is the type of guy, jeff, was he? So when you're working lockup, you're the one that takes the prisoners in. You fingerprint them, you know. So he's like in trouble.

Speaker 1: 2:25:38

So that position is a, is not a not sought out position, or what?

Speaker 2: 2:25:42

took his partner and they moved his partner, I guess okay, and they separated them for whatever reason. Okay, um, I kind of know the gist of it. Yeah, you don't have to get into that, but, um, but they separated them and his partner went somewhere else and Jeff, obviously, they put him to work in the lockup. So he was like this sucks. So I get there, I bring in a guy to get searched or whatever. And he gets there and he's like, hey, dude, you were in the Marines. I was like, yeah, he's like, oh, yeah, I was in the marines. I was like, yeah, he's like, oh, yeah, I was in the marines too.

Speaker 2: 2:26:15

He was with first tanks and he goes just like this. He goes dude, do you want to partner up? And it's like you don't really do that on a police department. You kind of work with guys, fill them out, and I'll be like, hey, bam, want to partner up? Yeah, because once you partner up with someone, that's it, and and the timekeeper puts you guys together, your schedules are now together so it's kind of a hassle to be like, all right, we're gonna move bam with this.

Speaker 2: 2:26:44

Sometimes you could get three-man cars to where, on your two off days, I'm working with her for her two off days, or whatever the case is. We, we're all rotating, and then when I get my off days, it's you and her working, and when you're off, it's me and her working, and vice versa. Okay, so once they kind of lock you in to be partners, you're kind of stuck so if you get stuck with some cheese dick, so I had never worked with this guy I don't even I didn't even know at the time.

Speaker 2: 2:27:11

He was in trouble, nothing. But he was like we were talking and he was like, hey, do you want to part? You got a partner. I was like, no, he's like, you want to partner up? I was like let me get back to you on that, so. So I was like that's weird. So I told some guys and some guys are like, oh yeah, jeff's cool, whatever, blah, blah. Anyways, like two or three days later he comes back to work. He had the next couple days off and I and I'm like, hey, dude, let's partner up. He's like all right, cool, I'll talk to the timekeeper. He was just trying to get out of prison. He was in trouble.

Speaker 1: 2:27:46

This is hindsight, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:27:48

So he's kind of using me, so I'm like I was his scapegoat, so and I love the dude man and um, so I I partner up with him. We start working and dude, we have a blast, just bromance it like dude, it was just like he knew what I was thinking. Um, like the story, like the story I was, I was gonna tell you earlier, like we we had this one dude that and he was fast, jeff was really fast. We had this one dude one day where he we find this dude and Jeff, so Jeff was really smart with who had warrants Okay.

Speaker 2: 2:28:27

He knew everyone who had warrants. So he would run names right before he got to work. Or he would know all the players and he'd be like, oh, this guy's got a fucking warrant. I'd be like, how do all the players? And he'd be like, oh, this guy's got a fucking warrant. I'd be like, how do you know? He's like dude, this guy's got a warrant. I'm like, fuck it, let's go. So he would run names and he would just circle where they hang out and just wait and just like so he locked on with this guy. Okay, and this guy takes off.

Speaker 2: 2:28:53

Jeff takes off, loses him, right, so this is all in one day loses him. He's like, fuck. He's like, let's go back to his house. So we go back to his house, knock on his door. No one, of course, is gonna let us in. So we're looking for this guy, whatever. We don't find him, we get a couple jobs. We're answering our jobs. Still our calls.

Speaker 2: 2:29:14

A shooting happens. We go to where the shooting's at. When we're there, everyone's crowded up trying to look at what's going on. And jeff sees him again. He's like there, he fucking goes. No, the same dude, same dude. And I'm like he goes. You see him, he goes don't look. And I go. Yeah, I see him, he goes. He's gonna fucking run. I know he's gonna fucking run. I go yeah, he just. He just ran from you the first, like an hour ago. Of course he's going to fucking run. I know he's going to fucking run. I go. Yeah, he just ran from me the first, like an hour ago. Of course he's going to run. So he starts trying to hide behind cars like walking, like this Dude dips on him right, takes off. So this is twice in the same day.

Speaker 1: 2:29:48

This dude is running from you guys.

Speaker 2: 2:29:50

I get back in the car. We had this thing where I I would, I would follow him. When he gets tired, he'd jump in and I would start running, okay. So we kind of like switch on, really, yeah, okay. So dude loses him. He's like, fuck, he comes back to the car, he goes, this motherfucker, he goes. Let's go to this other dude's house that has a shirt, that has a warrant. I'm like, all right, bet. So we're driving around.

Speaker 2: 2:30:15

We come back to the same spot that he first saw him in, which was a corner store, and he sees him again. The guy doesn't see him, though. Guy's like facing a different direction. He's like dude, stop the car. Here we're in a blue and white car, like a police squad car. The whole neighborhood could see us, except for this guy, really, yeah, so he sees him. He's like dude, I'm getting this guy. So he takes off his vests. Yes, so he takes off his vest. I'm like, bro, chill, it's not that serious. He's like I'm getting this guy, he's not getting away today. Not three, three times, no, no, three times. So he takes off his vest. I'm like, oh man, this is such a bad idea. It's summertime, the middle of the west side, I mean the corner we were looking at, there was maybe 60, 70 fucking people outside and I'd say a quarter of them probably got pistols on them. I was gonna say what's the percentage you?

Speaker 2: 2:31:18

guys are carrying yeah so he's like dude, I'm, I'm gonna get him. I'm like, all right, do me a favor, bro, at least keep your radio on you. He's like, yeah, I got you. So I turn off the lights and I fucking slam on it. I get to the corner, I slam on the brakes, two or three dudes start running. He's one of the guys. So the other two, three dudes are running because they probably got a pistol, but we're not even worried about that, which is crazy. So Jeff gets out the car and starts running. His vest is in the car because he took off his vest. So I slam on the gas. So so I'm gonna cut this guy off. So I try to cut him off and as I I cue the radio, I hear the radio next to me. He didn't take his radio, you forgot to take his.

Speaker 1: 2:32:07

Oh my god, you're like this is this dude?

Speaker 2: 2:32:10

so I'm like now I'm like his cell phone's on the charge in the car. I'm like now I gotta find this guy right. So I drive around for about I don't know five, ten minutes. I finally see him coming out of the alley. He's out of breath. He's like he fucking got away again.

Speaker 1: 2:32:24

This dude dodged three times in a day three times.

Speaker 2: 2:32:28

Did you ever end up finding this guy? Two days later we found him. So two days later, this is the worst criminal ever. Two days later we showed to his house and he's in the front and we shine the light on him and jeff is just sitting in the car like this with his leg up. He's like dude, please come over here. He's like please, don't make me get out of this car and chase you again today. He's like man, I took care of that. He's like I don't give a fuck, come over here, get over here now. So the dude walks up to the car and jeff cuffs one of his hands and just holds him there and we just run his name and, lo and behold, he did. He had a warrant and he got it cleared up. He must have knew like this fucking guy is gonna chase me for a week. Let me just get this shit situated. So that's the type of guy jeff was like. He was like so. So we had some great times. We also had this.

Speaker 2: 2:33:25

So two days before our incident, what happened was we were driving down this, this street, and we see this. We see this kid and, like I said, jeff knows all the players. He knows who's who's running the tip which is like who's who's selling? Um, he knows all the all the guys that are selling. He knows, like, spots where they put it at. Yeah, so he was smart when it came to all this shit and I was kind of just like piggybacking off of him and learning it. So he basically the guy sees us, he walks in back of this van and we're following him like this. We're like like right side by side with him. There's a van right here as we come out this side. We're going to get out the car and grab him. But he stopped right here to hide behind the van. So he doubled back and started running. So we start chasing this guy, we get to each mouth of the alley and now he's kind of like trapped yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:34:29

So he decides, he decides to go towards jeff and jeff just grabs him and just slams him into the side of the brick wall to try to get him to. You know, get down. Finally gets him down. This dude ended up putting the dope in his mouth All the bags that he had. So he put it in his mouth and I remember Jeff's like like dude, spit it out, spit it out. And the dude spit out like only like two bags. So we recovered it right away and we we pick him up and we cuff him. We're gonna lock him up. This kid's, this kid's 17, okay, and he's chewing on this shit still, because he still has the rest of the shit in his mouth, right, so we're talking to him. We're like dude, listen, we already got two bags. You're gonna go to jail for this, don't die. Like just spit it out, it's not, it's not worth it. He's like man, I'm not spitting it out. And we're like dude.

Speaker 2: 2:35:33

So thank god jeff was thinking this day he's like, dude, let's take him to the hospital, because once you take him to the hospital, it's like you're there all day. Oh, so you get to skate the rest of your shift. Well, no, you don't get to skate, but you got to stay there the whole time with him.

Speaker 2: 2:35:49

Okay, because he's your arrestee, so you're staying there the whole time okay we're kind of like fuck, we're gonna have to be with this guy all day. Basically, long story short, we get there and the doctor sees this kid. He's chewing on it like it's fucking bubble gum. The doctor tells him hey, spit it out. He's like I'm not spinning now. He's like dude doctor's home, like spit it out. You know, he lied about everything about his age, his name and everything. He was really 17 years old. So he's bullshitting. He's giving them the run around, whatever. Finally he goes man, I'll spit it out. But um, the only way I'll spit it out is if they let me flush it. And and at that point we're like we already recovered two bags. It was like two or three bags. We're like fuck it, I don't give a fuck yeah. So he spits it out and he's like he's still cuffed. So he flushes it really quick with his shoe. He flushes the toilet Whatever. He signs a refusal to be treated Right. So they're like okay, so they let him go.

Speaker 1: 2:37:00

Oh God.

Speaker 2: 2:37:02

So we get him to, so he spit everything out. So we get him to lock up and we're knocking out the arrest report and the case report, whatnot, and he's like super pale and like dehydrated. So he's like man, can I get some water? And and we're thinking like, yeah, you just, we just chased you for like two or three blocks, like, but that was like maybe an hour, two hours ago. Okay, but yeah, we'll get you some water. So we got him some water. We got him like two cups of water. He swallowed it.

Speaker 2: 2:37:35

Finally, we're looking for his name. We can't find him. And at this point we're like listen, once your prints come back, it's going to tell us what your name is anyways. So if you want to be a John Doe, it's just going to be longer for you anyways, you know. So he lies about his name. Whatever. We send him back to lock up and when he gets to lock up, he's there and we go about our day. So we go, we finish our our day, um, we go home.

Speaker 2: 2:38:07

We were working on midnights and jeff calls me at like seven in the morning. He goes hey, dude, I go. What's up? He goes. You know that kid we brought into lockup. I go, yeah, he goes, he just died. I go, what I? Really? What kid I? I go, the kid we brought him with that we took to the hospital. He's like, yeah, he just died, he, he od'd because while he was chewing it was breaking up in his stomach, all the bags.

Speaker 2: 2:38:38

And he goes and they're telling us that we don't have paperwork on him. I'm like, well, that's bullshit. I mean there's a camera of us bringing him into the hospital, taking him out. Well, he lied about all this shit. So when they put his paperwork together, they didn't put his paperwork together with the prints that came back with his name. So they sued us, they sued the department, sued everybody and that was a whole ordeal. Now it's two days before shit that happened to us, sued us and and we go, we go, we go to to you know um to court for this. And they're like, okay, listen, uh, the city's willing to settle with this with um for like 150 000. The family was suing for like six million or something like that and they're gonna settle for 150 000 no, the city saying this is the most we'll give them.

Speaker 2: 2:39:35

But in our head we're thinking like why are we even giving them anything?

Speaker 1: 2:39:38

why does he rate anything?

Speaker 2: 2:39:40

I go. Last time I check we didn't put nothing in this kid's mouth. He didn't. We did everything correct. We took him to the hospital, which, thank god, jeff decided because normally you'd be, you don't want to spit it out, we'll just knock out this arrest report. You spit, you know, but we did everything. Cross the T's, dot, the I's, everything by the book. And the city comes back and they said, oh, we'll think we'll settle with them if they're willing to take a hundred grand. And we're like why, why are we even settling? Anyways, the family settled for like $175,000 from $6 million to $175,000. But the city paid out on it. Moral of the story is like why? You know? There's no reason why we should even that's wild to me.

Speaker 2: 2:40:28

It's insane.

Speaker 1: 2:40:37

And their reasoning is it costs more money to fight it than to just make it it go away. Yeah, I mean that's. That's the case a lot of times. These big corporate companies are like just give it to them. Yeah, they're career criminals, they don't want the publicity they don't yeah 100, so walk me. Walk me through the day that you and your partner got shot.

Speaker 2: 2:40:54

So we're working 14 years ago today yeah, it's your live day yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:41:02

So we're working a 06 car, which is basically like plain clothes, okay, um, unmarked car, and we're driving. We're, we're still in the same area, we're, we're um in the 11th district and we're on um a street called pelaski. And as we're driving I'm driving, as we're driving, um, we pass by this alley and I glance. When I glance, I see these two guys and one guy serving the other guy, which is basically one guy selling the other guy Dope, and I pass up the alley and I tell Jeff, I go, man, I think this guy is serving this guy in the alley. We were on our way to the district to get some some like ticket books or something. I forgot what we were getting and Jeff's like just chilling, laying back in the car and he's like how many guys? I was like just two guys down the alley. So we bust a U-turn and we go down the alley. Well, when we get down the alley, there's only one guy there. So in my head I'm like, fuck, this guy saw us, like he must have saw us the first time. We passed by and took off.

Speaker 2: 2:42:13

Well, we drive, we keep driving down the alley and the guy now is on my side and when I pass him up. He's kind of just stopped in the alley. I pass him up because I'm like this guy doesn't got shit on him, the guy that we want, with all the work gone, he's gone. So I'm like all right, whatever. So I drive off and I look in my rear view window and I see him put something in his sock. So when I see him fixing his shoe and putting something in his sock and I tell Jeff, I go hold on dude. So I step on the brakes, I'm like I think this guy's got to work on him. Jeff's like think so I go. Yeah, dude, he's like chilling on his phone. He's like think so I go. Yeah, dude, jeff's, he's like chilling on his phone. He's like you think so Like not even, like like in another world. I'm like, yeah, dude. So I see, so this guy starts walking towards us. So as he starts walking towards us which is crazy, you know, because that doesn't normally happen no, Okay.

Speaker 2: 2:43:12

So he's walking towards us. So I tell Jeff, I go hey, let's talk to him. So he walks on the passenger side of the vehicle and Jeff calls him over to the car. This guy's so comfortable that he kind of leans up into the car with his hands. That's how comfortable he is at this point. So you want to talk about lackadaisical? That's exactly what we were. Okay, we were. At that point he painted the picture of like I ain't got shit dude.

Speaker 1: 2:43:43

So you let your guard down, because how of his posture and body language and everything?

Speaker 2: 2:43:48

yeah 101 things you don't do, okay, you know, no matter what. And we, we, we kind of like we're really lucky because this dude could have blasted us right in the vehicle yeah, right there yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:44:04

So I, jeff's asking him questions. He's like hey, dude, where do you live? This and the third, and finally he starts stumbling with his address. He doesn't know where he lives. So I n nudge Jeff and I'm like this guy's, this guy's bullshit, how do you not know where you live? You know. So, just like I go, let's, let's check. So just like, all right.

Speaker 2: 2:44:27

So Jeff gets out the car. He actually he was leaning in the car window. Jeff gets out the car, he actually lets Jeff get out of the car. Jeff gets out the car. He actually lets Jeff get out of the car. So Jeff gets behind him, grabs him by his shirt and tries to, at this point, put his hands on the hood so he could go through. So we used to have this thing where, like I told you, if he takes off, I drive. Once Jeff gets tired, he gets in, he drives, I run. So I still had it in, I had my foot on the brake, but I still had it in drive, because I was waiting for Jeff to put his hands down and I thought Jeff was going to cuff him immediately. But Jeff wasn't spinned up to what I was seeing. So Jeff did everything that he would normally do. But he didn't see what I saw. What did you see that was so different? Well, what I? I was like. I told you I was already. I saw them in the alley. Jeff didn't see them.

Speaker 1: 2:45:32

Okay.

Speaker 2: 2:45:32

Okay, we went down the alley. He saw the one guy but he didn't see them. Okay, okay, we went down the alley. He saw the one guy, but he didn't see him put some in his sock. Yep, so all those things. I'm telling this to little checks for you.

Speaker 2: 2:45:40

Yeah, I'm telling this to jeff, but jeff is like handling it still as if it's almost like if it's brand new. Okay, so he's hand. So he tries to put his hands on the hood to probably hold him and go through him and maybe cuff him. Once he does that, the fight's on. This dude launches the elbow at jeff and at that time I'm like, fuck, here we go, we're about to tee off on this guy for a couple bags of whatever. So I throw it in park immediately. So I get out of the car and they are I'm not even joking, they're probably from this computer to about your um window right here.

Speaker 2: 2:46:22

Okay, and now I'm coming from this side, from the driver's side, over to where the passenger side is, and jeff's at this time still fighting with him. And as I'm running towards him, like super close, like probably this close, I see him reach and in one motion lift up his shirt and try to grab. He's got a pistol and try to grab it all in one motion and he does it. And then on the second try, he grabs it and he fires, he lets off three rounds at me and he shoots from here to probably the window and he hits me once in the arm. That's still in there. The other one totally missed me. And then one grazed my head Really. Yeah, this is all while Jeff still has him. So he's shooting with one hand like this at you, at me and where's jeff?

Speaker 1: 2:47:19

so if you're him so jeff has his.

Speaker 2: 2:47:21

Jeff is trying to get his arms like this wrapped around him. So jeff behind him, jeff's behind him and he's shooting at you while jeff's got him behind jeff's trying to get both hands around him, this hand gets free.

Speaker 2: 2:47:33

so jeff just has this hand like this, okay, and he's shooting like this. Because I'm running in an angle now and after the first one hits me I fall down to right in back of where jeff's at and in all one motion he fires a total of four shots. So he shoots, so he gets his arm, this arm, loose from jeff. Jeff still this arm. He fires three times at me and basically by I remember Jeff telling me I think by the first or second shot Jeff is kind of like pushing off now to grab his weapon. He turns around just in a motion like this and lets one off. At that time Jeff happened to turn his head and it hit him right behind the ear, this bone right behind the ear, and it's stood in there for his whole time, lodged in the back of his ear.

Speaker 1: 2:48:36

So caliber 22. My god, you got. Did you know immediately that you were hit?

Speaker 2: 2:48:44

I knew I was hit, but I thought it, to be honest, the adrenaline. I thought it was a um, I thought it was like a bb gun or something. Did you feel it hit your head? I felt it. I felt it hit my head and I felt it hit my arm and you thought it was like a pelican. I mean, this fucking guy shot us with a bb gun. I remember like I can't believe this fucking guy, like we're really gonna fuck this guy up now that's. I was so pissed off, I was like a bb gun really yeah that's what I was thinking.

Speaker 2: 2:49:12

And so once he turns and hits Jeff, Jeff falls down. Did Jeff?

Speaker 1: 2:49:20

fall as in stumble, or he fall like lights out fall Because there's a difference.

Speaker 2: 2:49:26

No, he didn't fall lights out.

Speaker 1: 2:49:27

He stumbled and like he's got a bullet right here.

Speaker 2: 2:49:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he like stumbled and fell and where I was at I was right behind him, so he was right, probably, where you're at, facing that way and I'm this way so did you see this guy's pistol come over? No, okay so the reason why I know he did that is because jeff's story makes sense, because I fell excuse me, I fell on the third shot.

Speaker 2: 2:49:56

I fell right behind jeff okay so when that, that, when, when this one? I don't know if this one hit me second, I I don't remember, but either it was a second or third shot that hit first.

Speaker 2: 2:50:09

One hit grazed me yeah for sure, and it I still have the scar on my head. It grazed my head really. That one, I felt, and then the other one. Either it was this one or it missed me, but there was three shots. Yeah, I fell and jeff fell after he got shot and jeff gets on one knee and he fires off two shots and the guy takes off like a you know, like a bat out of hell down the alley and the round hits him in his forearm.

Speaker 2: 2:50:46

Oh so he, jeff got around in him, he got around in him, okay so we're down, I, I, I I'm like, this far I'm still, I'm like this fucking guy, like oh, when we get this guy, because now I know how serious it is, because jeff just shot is this the first time that you that you've been in like a shooting like this on the police department.

Speaker 2: 2:51:14

Yeah, that I've ever shooting like this on the police department. Yeah, that I've ever, like, used my, my weapon on the police department yes, first time. So so I'm I'm looking at it like, oh, we got an answer for this. And I'm still thinking in my head, as crazy as it sounds. I'm like this fucking guy shot us with a bb gun and we're gonna kill him. Jeff, jeff's probably gonna kill him, or jeff shot two times?

Speaker 1: 2:51:37

did you know that jeff hit him, or did that come?

Speaker 2: 2:51:39

out.

Speaker 1: 2:51:40

Okay, that came out okay, so you just think he got away yeah okay jeff said that he, jeff said that he saw him jump.

Speaker 2: 2:51:49

I didn't see that. Okay now, jeff, now when, when you open your door in the gangway of the alley, there was not that much room, so I'm in back of Jeff, so I can't even fire, because Jeff is like from here to this wall, you're in front of me, the guy's running that way, you're right in front of me, I'm probably this close, but we're both facing that way, so he's blocking you yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:52:13

And he's on one knee, so he's in. I'm yeah, and he's on one knee, so he's in an angle and you're laying on the ground at this point and I'm I had already taken the knee and I'm down.

Speaker 2: 2:52:20

So so I get up and I grab jeff and I pick him up and we start chucking down the alley and we're calling it out on the radio and I remember this dude gets to the mouth of the alley and he makes a right. And when he makes a right, jeff's pretty fast and he's running with a bullet in his head and I'm running with a bullet in my arm and we get to the mouth of the alley and we turn the corner man, and there's I'm not even lying there's 150 people, 170 people outside Summertime, uh, block party. There's tons of people out. So he's gone. So he disappeared into the crowd. So jeff immediately was going to run into the crowd with a bullet in his head with a bullet in his head.

Speaker 2: 2:53:10

This is wild that that okay, sorry, continue this so, so we get, we get to, we get both kids to the mouth of alley. And I remember I told jeff I was like dude, come back, like we're not, we're not, we're not going over there, like there's, there's got to be at least 10 guns, like we're not gonna come out and both of you have bullets in you at this point, like at this point yeah, let's not kick another hornet's nest, right so we call it out.

Speaker 2: 2:53:39

A squad car flies down the fucking street. You see me on camera I'm trying to wave him down. He gets there. They call it out. So I thought jeff got grazed in the head. So I'm like squat, he's got a grazed wound and I'm and Jeff's like dude, there's a bullet in my head. I'm like bro, there's no way I'm talking to you and you got a bullet in your head.

Speaker 1: 2:54:07

This doesn't there's no way. It's not math in bro there's no way.

Speaker 2: 2:54:11

If you have a bullet in your head like you're dead, I go that grazed you. He's like no, bro, it's in your head like you're dead, I go that grazed you. He's like no, bro, it's in my head. There was no blood. There was no blood coming from his head. Are you bleeding? I was bleeding. My shirt was full of blood. This had blood on it, but I didn't think I was shot. I didn't think I had a bullet in the head Because I was touching myself like but, you.

Speaker 2: 2:54:38

I had a bullet in the head because I was touching myself like okay, no, but you can feel it obviously, but I could feel that there's a scrape here, for sure, and I looked and it was blood my hand, I knew, and I looked at it once and it freaked me out so I was like I'm not gonna look at it again because I don't know how bad it is. Right, okay, I wasn't even thinking about tourniquet or nothing really that never crossed your mind Out the window.

Speaker 1: 2:54:56

Dude Hilarious, Even with all your Marine training, never a tourniquet.

Speaker 2: 2:55:00

Not at all, dude. I'm like it's going to fucking bleed out. It's going to bleed out, I'm going to die.

Speaker 2: 2:55:07

So Jeff's like, he's telling me, he's like no, dude, I got shot in the head, I go, you're good, bro, you're going to be good. You didn't get shot in the head and he knew it. He knew he had got shot in the head and, like I said, we get to the mouth of the alley Squad car comes, picks us up, we jump in the back of the squad car and that was almost like bumper cars, because you got all these different units now rushing to the scene and you have a squad car that's trying to get out of the scene. Okay, and all these squad cars are coming to the scene Lights and sirens, blue lights. It's, you know, 10 o'clock at night. It's summer, fucking 98 degrees outside, everybody's outside, and we're flying down the highway trying to get to the hospital.

Speaker 1: 2:55:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:55:57

So we finally get to the hospital and we get to the hospital and there's a sea full of cops there. It's like every department you can think of, even suburban departments are there. Yeah, support was crazy. Are there really? Yeah, support was crazy. And um, we get there and and I remember laying down and I, I remember I told the doctor, I'm like doc, do I got a bullet in my head? She's like I don't know, we got to do it x-rays. I go bullshit. I go, you see this shit every day. Do I have a bullet in my head? You know, if I got a bullet in my head, she goes I could tell you you have a bullet in your arm. We have to do an x-ray to see if you have a bullet in your head. And I remember I told her again I go, you're not gonna fucking tell me, but someone in this hospital is gonna tell me if I got a bullet in my head. She's like. She's like calm down. And then I find out, um, later on that so how? My?

Speaker 2: 2:56:59

So at the time, my daughter's mom and my mom, how they found out, were they at the block party? No, they weren't at the block party. So my mom gets a phone call. This is, this is the part that that like I can't even imagine. But she gets a phone call from the police department and this is the only part that I would say, like this is fucked up. She gets a phone call from the police department and they say hey, is this Linda? She's like, yeah, she's like, your son's been shot in the head. We're gonna send a squad car to come pick you up. That's, and she's like, before she can even say, she like couldn't even talk, so immediately she gets on the phone, calls my daughter's mom, my daughter's mom at the time, my daughter was fuck, how old was my daughter? She's like three years old.

Speaker 1: 2:58:03

Okay.

Speaker 2: 2:58:05

So they call my daughter's mom. Her mom was visiting. She starts bawling. My daughter starts bawling because she sees my mom Freaking out, freaking out, freaking out. So they fly to my mom's house. My daughter's mom comes to my mom's house and they all get in the car and they come to the hospital, come see me, and that whole time they didn't tell her if I was alive or not, anything. So they don't know. So they don't know. They genuinely don't know. But that was fucked up. The best way to handle that would have just been listen. There's an incident, your son was shot.

Speaker 2: 2:58:53

We don't have too much information, but we are sending the squad car to come pick you up and take you directly to the hospital. But your son's been shot in the head. We're sending the squad car Come pick you up. What's crazy to me?

Speaker 1: 2:59:06

is that, especially a Chicago police department, you're not the first cop that's been shot. How do they not have a protocol and like a procedure where it's just standard? I don't think they do, because you hear this a lot, like tj that we had on he, his wife's finding out from facebook posts, and like people like hey, we heard about your husband. She's like what do you mean? Like they didn't even reach out to her it like you think it would be just a standard SOP.

Speaker 1: 2:59:35

Yeah, and they reached out to her but it wasn't Not the tactful, most tactful way.

Speaker 2: 2:59:41

No, not tactful at all, that's wild.

Speaker 1: 2:59:43

So they just call your mom, tell you you've been shot in the head.

Speaker 2: 2:59:45

Your son's been shot in the head or sending a car for you, yeah, so we get there and do the support Like I've. This is the one thing I will say. Like the police department, chicago Police Department. Again, I base shit off of my experience. For sure, and the support was 100% there. Good, no-transcript. I was like all right, you know whatever. Um. So I talked to a bunch of old school guys. They're like dude, you're gonna have your your pick of where you want to go.

Speaker 1: 3:01:14

Oh, districts wise.

Speaker 2: 3:01:15

Yeah, okay, like really they're like, yeah, bro, you took a bullet for the city. Fuck yeah, you're gonna go to any district you want. Where'd you want to go? Well, my fto was like no dude, pick a unit, don't pick a district. He's like you want to push another b car somewhere else. Fuck that, he goes. Pick a unit, he's like you want to push another B car somewhere else. Fuck that he goes pick a unit.

Speaker 1: 3:01:38

Oh, that's, that's, that's, that's that old school, right, it's the old school mentality.

Speaker 2: 3:01:42

That's years on the force. So I talked with Jeff and we, we, we kind of figured out. We were like dude, I don't know how this shit works Like we're still in recovery. I'm still going through therapy for that.

Speaker 1: 3:01:53

Let me interrupt. When did you find out that Jeff actually had a bullet in his head At the hospital and were you.

Speaker 2: 3:02:01

What was your? So backtrack they while we're at the hospital, they had the scene blocked off and they're like listen, this is going to help the case, but we need to if you can only if you can we need you to come back out to the scene with us the same day. Same day, like two hours later yeah, dead serious.

Speaker 1: 3:02:27

So you guys get shot, rush to the hospital. Now they're calling you to come back. I mean, I get the forensics and I get.

Speaker 2: 3:02:34

They want everything fresh, like two hours, maybe three hours. Two hours later, I got a bandage on my arm right here. I got this taped up. I got a fucking. I look like the fucking taliban and and here's the bet, here's the kicker I got a hospital gown on. Still shit you not you're.

Speaker 1: 3:02:56

You went back to the seat of the crime or the yeah, so I had, I had, I had here's.

Speaker 2: 3:03:01

Here's the best part I had you had your boots on.

Speaker 2: 3:03:06

No, I had that's the hospital socks. Hold on. So these guys first of all, the detectives on this, first of all the detectives on this badass, okay, they're awesome dudes, old school dudes, old school dudes. Those guys, man, I have the utmost respect for them and those guys work that case and they are some of the best police officers you want them to handle any shooting you're involved in. Okay, awesome dudes.

Speaker 2: 3:03:35

So I I get in the car with my socks, on hospital gown, taliban, wrapped head because I got my shit still bleeding wrapped arm, and they're driving me back to the fucking scene. As I'm driving to the scene, they're like they're like all right, they, they bring me into the scene. I get there. They're like, hey, listen, we just need you to tell us what happened, step by step by step by step by step, so we can tighten this shit up. You're standing in a hospital gown. So I'm in the backseat of the squad car and I'm about to get out. They're like, fuck, you don't got shoes. I'm like, no, I don't have shoes. They're like all right. So they leave the detective that drove in the car and they gave me his shoes and he's like a size 14 right I can't make this shit up you can't make this up.

Speaker 2: 3:04:33

He gives me these. So he's a tall dude dude. Okay, I'm tall too, but he's like massive. He's like fucking six, seven, six, okay, and he's got a size 14. I'm a size like 11 and a half 12. So I got these. So he gives me his dress shoes. All the dicks are like suits and ties.

Speaker 1: 3:04:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:04:53

So he gives me these dress shoes dicks are like suits and ties. Yeah, so he gives me these dress shoes. So I'm in hospital socks, dress shoes, dress shoes with a hospital gown and I'm walking them through the scene. And, um, I walk them through the scene and tell them what happened. They're like awesome, thank you, boom, send me back to the hospital. I get back to the hospital, they release me a couple hours later. Okay, gave me some pills and all that shit. Um, so they end up catching the guy. How?

Speaker 2: 3:05:25

long after total time about three weeks later, really, yeah, and he's shooting dice in the park how did they, how did you guys I mean, did you identify?

Speaker 1: 3:05:41

like, how do they know it was him? Like was there informed the people? Because obviously, yeah, there was some informants, there was some informants, yeah, so people started coming out and shit.

Speaker 2: 3:05:49

There was some informants and also detective work real detective work, old school detective work and they realized that there was a camera that was on the building, that when they first checked it, they realized that the camera didn't show shit. So their CI started telling them hey listen, that guy ran into that building. They're like dude, we checked the cameras on there. Well, they call back the building manager. They're like hey, listen, do you got any other cameras anywhere else? He's like no, but he goes. I don't know. They told you the first time, but these cameras on a three hour delay. So they're like great, so they go back three hours later and they match it with the time that our call came out and it shows the guy. So here's the part where they show the guy in there and he's reenacting everything with people that are in the vestibule where he's at.

Speaker 1: 3:06:45

So he's like telling people what happened. He's telling people.

Speaker 2: 3:06:47

He's going like this. He's throwing the elbow back, he's telling all these guys that are in the hallway of this apartment building, so the reason why he ran into that building is he has a buddy. His buddy's girlfriend lives on the top floor and he knew his buddy was there that day. So he runs up to the top floor. He gets up there, the girl's mom answers the door and he's like. She sees that she's sweating and she's like. He's like hey, such and such here. She's like yeah, she's. He's like OK, so she, she calls, she doesn't bring him in right away, but she calls him to the door and the dude comes to the door and she, he says man, I just shot two white dudes. So on the west side, this is what they say. On the west side, if you're not black, you're white.

Speaker 1: 3:07:47

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:07:48

So the dude's like what? So the lady which is crazy that she even allowed it. She's like, oh, you shot two white guys. She's like, okay, come inside. Oh, so the dude that shot you was black, yeah, okay. So the lady was like you shot two white guys, come inside, you know right. So so the guy goes inside, they give him a glass of water and as soon as he drinks the water, he throws up up Adrenaline dump or Adrenaline dump, nervous, everything.

Speaker 2: 3:08:21

So he goes into the room. They give him a fresh pair of clothes. He goes into the room and he tells his buddy in his girlfriend's room that he goes. Man, I think I shot two cops. And the mom overhears that she's like what she goes? You shot two cops. She's like you gotta get the fuck out of here now. We don't want that heat, right? Two white guys is cool, two cops, I don't know, doesn't make sense culture. So she let him in after. Yeah, he said he shot two white guys, but two cops. And now you're, now you're crossing the line yeah so she?

Speaker 2: 3:09:04

she tells him, hey, listen, you gotta go. So he changes his clothes, boom, he takes off and he leaves.

Speaker 1: 3:09:10

So was he? I mean, wasn't he shot, or did they not see any of that? So that point.

Speaker 2: 3:09:15

So in the video also he keeps going like this and he keeps rubbing it and he keeps going like this. So he did have a Got grazed. He had a grazed wound, okay. And when they finally caught him they had the forensic person looked at it and they were like, yeah, that's from a gunshot wound, you know that's burning and everything. A that's from a gunshot wound. Okay, you know that's burning and everything that's a gunshot wound. So, um, so yeah, they, they caught him. You know. Uh, I want to say three weeks later they caught him. The trial took a long time. What's a long time, fuck man, I can't remember so it happened in 20.

Speaker 1: 3:09:56

Yeah, yeah, really yeah. Do they sit locked up that whole time or they let guy, okay, yeah for something like that, yeah, shooting.

Speaker 2: 3:10:05

So he was looking at um attempt murder of two pls so two counts done done so.

Speaker 2: 3:10:15

I remember while we were going through and talking with the state's attorney this is the type of guy jeff is and I remember he tattooed his head right where the bullet was and he he tattooed a circle with like blood like dripping from where he got shot from. Okay, that's how much marine, total fucking marine. Uh-huh, I love that dude. And um, and I remember the state's attorney go. They looked at him, they go. I really wish you would have did that after the trial he.

Speaker 1: 3:10:56

He did this during the trial, during the trial.

Speaker 2: 3:10:58

Oh my gosh. And the state's attorney. Looks at me. He's like you can talk him out of it. I'm like dude. Look at him. He's got tattoos everywhere. There's no controlling this guy.

Speaker 2: 3:11:10

I think he's got 10. Since I've met him, this one was bound to happen. So, yeah, so we were off for a while. I was off for about six months. I did the physical therapy. Um, they send you to talk to someone. Um, I had, I again, I had a pretty good support system, those guys that were checking up on me that's good Guys that were taking me out to eat. And again, like I said, the superintendent called and the day before I go to work, so after the six months is over, I go to the medical section and I'm like yeah, you know, I'm coming back to work today. And they're like all right, so I'm going back to the 11th district.

Speaker 2: 3:11:58

So I check in that day at the medical section at like nine in the morning, and I go to the superintendent's office office and they're like how can we help you? I'm like superintendent gary mccarthy told me to come see him before I go back to work. They're like all right, well, what's your name? Write down my name. Like, give me a minute, sit right here. Five, ten minutes later they call me. They're like all right, come on, come on in. And we get there and, um, I walk in, he's like hey, what's up, man. You know, hey, what's going on, boss, he's like have a seat. So his dad was like in the military, so he's got all these challenge coins. Yeah, really, really.

Speaker 2: 3:12:47

Again, I can only speak my experience for sure, super cool, fucking dude with me, super cool. He's like what's up, man, how you feeling, how's everything, how's jeff? I'm like, yeah, he's doing good, he goes, all right, he goes um, when you, when you get back to work I go tonight and he looks at me, he goes well, just like this, he goes. What the fuck he goes. I I told you come see me before you go to, before you go back to work, but not the the day of I go. I didn't know what that meant. He goes, all right, and just like this he goes. Where do you want to go?

Speaker 2: 3:13:22

I'm like, if it's not a problem, we were thinking about going to Fugitive. He's like want to go to Fugitive? I'm like, yeah, if it's not a problem, he goes. All right, give me two weeks. I'm like he's like that's where Jeff wants to go. I'm like, yeah, I had already had this conversation with Jeff. It was going to be either that or Intel and the reason. So after that he brings me to, he goes give me two weeks, he goes. I want to introduce you to some people. He takes me into this room and there's all these bosses. They're like hey, this is Ruben, new member on Fugitive.

Speaker 1: 3:14:04

They're like hey how you doing.

Speaker 2: 3:14:06

I'm meeting all these captains, really, yeah, and he goes hey, he took a bullet for the city, let's make sure we take care of him. He goes give that dude your star number and your employee number. So I'm like roger that he goes. You got Jeff's info, I go. Yeah, so I gave it to him.

Speaker 2: 3:14:34

I go back to work, shoot the shit with him for like five, ten minutes. I remember he had to do a press release. This is pretty funny. He had to do a press release and he had someone that writes it for him. So he reads it and he goes I need your, I need your input this same day. I need your input on something. I'm like yeah, what's up, boss?

Speaker 2: 3:14:52

He goes, he reads, he tells the girl to read it and it's like coming from him, though and she's reading it and she finishes and he goes how's that sound? Just like that? I go sounds good to me. He goes yeah, fuck it, let's go with that, just like that. I'm like this fucking guy's normal, like I mean, it is what it is, so we leave there. I get back, jeff. I'm like dude, we're going on fugitive in fucking two weeks. He's like damn, for real. So Jeff was still off for like another two more months. I go back to work in 11 and everyone's like dude, what are you doing here? Like they're supposed to take care of you and I didn't want to say nothing, so I'm like I don't know how this shit works, yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:15:34

Dude. The next day Gone Transfer order to fugitive, Really Not even two weeks the next day, let's get in the fugitive.

Speaker 1: 3:15:43

Yeah, I know we're pushing three hours, but yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:15:46

Fugitive Want to piss or anything? No, I'm good man, let's roll. Fugitive.

Speaker 1: 3:15:50

So we go to fugitive, fugitive task force? Yeah, how, how and what is that? Why, why is this a thing that you're trying to request to put in now?

Speaker 2: 3:16:00

well, they, they, you get deputized and you work directly with the us marshals okay, which is could probably be a lot of fun super fun, you get the funding okay that you're, that I think every department should have.

Speaker 2: 3:16:15

Um, you're going after the big fish, so you're going after the high index crimes such as like robberies, robbery offenders, criminal sexual assaults, obviously, shootings and homicides and some burglaries, depending on how much was stolen, and stuff like that Really. And you get a lot of collaterals from out of state where there's other departments that are like hey, listen, we're looking for this guy. We found out he's got ties to someone in Chicago. We need you guys, we'll send you the information. He's got a full extradition warrant, like. Once you guys get him.

Speaker 1: 3:16:59

Bring him.

Speaker 2: 3:16:59

Bring him Bag him.

Speaker 1: 3:17:01

That's what you're doing.

Speaker 2: 3:17:01

You're just hunting people down, so we were just hunting people down, dude, we were just running, we would get a case on somebody and we'd work it. Dude, really.

Speaker 1: 3:17:10

Just you and Jeff.

Speaker 2: 3:17:11

Yeah, so this is fun, you guys have time together. We have a team of guys, okay, but jeff would get a case, I would get a case and we'd work an individual and then we'd we'd cross and be like, hey, listen, let me see if I can find out a little bit more on your guy. You find out because sometimes I I can't like I I zone out and I'm like this is what I got writers blocking away. Yeah, and you'll be like hold on, dude, let me find, let me. So, let me look at, let me look at his um, uh, his um, his baby mama's info. Where does she get her um public aid sent to? Because where does she get her snap card and all that stuff? Where does she? Where does I can run in your social finding out? Where do you work at? Who's giving you a check? You find out so much info.

Speaker 1: 3:18:06

Really.

Speaker 2: 3:18:07

And you have access to that through the marshals and those guys. Those guys got all the tools, those guys got all the connects, those guys got those guys do a hell of a job, really hell of a job, dude. So you're basically just hunting guys, that's all you're doing?

Speaker 1: 3:18:25

that would be fun. Yeah, so did you catch any like big name people like like we caught a guy, we caught a guy.

Speaker 2: 3:18:32

So one of my, my first cases that I helped out with with the guys on my team, we caught a guy that was so it was a collateral from out of town. There was three, so there was three spots that they were going to hit at the same time, so we all had to hit them at the same time. One was in, I believe it was in. The dude was from utah, so I think one of the places was in utah, one was in chicago and I think one was in washington, I'm not sure the one in chicago was where he was at. So this dude this is sick, but this dude would. He had a wife. He was into like um comics okay, like he was like into the comic-con and stuff like that. He had a wife and he had two daughters and both of his daughters were his one daughter was, I think, 11 or 12. I think the other one might have been six or seven or something like that.

Speaker 2: 3:19:36

And this dude would go to these um comic cons around the world or these comic book conventions around the world. And this dude they basically told us like if you guys don't catch him in this hit, he's going to be on um, america's most wanted, really. So we were like, damn, this is big fish type shit. What was he doing? So what he was doing was he, he would, they was, they would go to the hotel, wherever they were staying at. He would make his kids sleep on the floor, make his wife sleep on the floor, and he would. He was like this fat slob and every night he would take one of his daughters in the washroom and molest her, really, rape her Every night Whole time. Dude, that shit fucking still gives me like chills. So we hit this house. We found out that his mom was renting the house there and we hit the house and, um, we found it weird that she was giving us a tough time to open up the door okay, which is a huge red flag immediately red flag.

Speaker 2: 3:20:51

But we had guys in the back, guys in the front and um, but it was an enclosed back porch, okay, so we couldn't get access to the back porch. So the only way the guy can get out is he would have to get out of the back porch, which they would have caught him. So we get it. We finally make entry into the house. We get into the house, we see that there's like three or four pair of shoes, and then one of my buddies points out the super red flag is there's two plates on the table where they were eating at. And, um, we're searching the whole house, can't find find him. Looking everywhere, can't find him.

Speaker 2: 3:21:35

And this guy is fucking. He was huge, he was like a fat slob. He had to be at least fuck, I don't know, maybe like close to 400 pounds, just a massive like a slob, but sloppy. And so we go. So we call the guys. We're like hey, did he come out through the back? They're like no. All the guys were like hey, did he come out through the back? They're like no. Anyways, we find him and he's all the way downstairs, tucked underneath the bottom of the staircase and he's like just crunched up down there, so that was like one of my first like really like big cases was.

Speaker 2: 3:22:11

Was that um, um we we've gone after guys that have executed um little kids um so you're dealing after the worst, oh, the worst of the worst, worse, the worst gang member executes another gang member's um kid, uh, eight years old kid, lures them into the alley, blows the kid's brains out just because because doesn't like the other game, uh, the other guy, that that. So those cases, everybody's on it. Yeah, um, we had like uh, a guy, a cart, a cartel guy this was like one of the first ones too and um, I believe he was in the like either one of the carolina, either north carolina, south carolina went to a park, executed this dude and his family. Um, like, the dude was there with his wife and I think he had two kids. So the dude, his wife and the two kids got, but got like broad daylight at a park, let him up, get back in the car, drive off.

Speaker 2: 3:23:27

We were searching for that guy, ended up catching him on the south side. Um, so yeah, that was was like rewarding shit. It was like it beat a lot of the other shit. You're making like an actual difference 100%, 100%.

Speaker 1: 3:23:43

What's as a cop? What's something, cop or US Marshal, just your line of work? What is something that the everyday American doesn't even think about, that's going on that you guys are dealing with? What is something that would shock just hearing a cop talk.

Speaker 2: 3:24:05

The amount of shit we see on a daily basis, from like like when they say zero to a hundred, like seriously, you can go from a call where someone locked themselves out their house, you leave that you're driving to another call. You see a car, you get an in-progress call which an in-progress call is? Like it's happening now, so you gotta get there. You could go from there. Then you could go to a domestic where a dude, just you know, beat the brake pads off his wife and he's hammered drunk. And then you leave there and you could go to a dui where a guy t-boned another car and killed somebody.

Speaker 2: 3:24:53

I mean just the amount of emotions that you're going through that the normal american does not deal with. You might deal with. You're dealing with everyone's shit in an, in an eight hour period or however many hours you're working with. Like you might have one thing bad happen to you this week, but I'm seeing an eight hour period, everybody shit in one, and then there's there's really nothing you can do. There's these, there's these hotlines that you can call to be like, hey, listen, that doesn't really solve the problem of the trauma that you're seeing yeah when you're out there answering these calls and having to deal with these people, all on top of the fact that nobody likes the police nowadays.

Speaker 2: 3:25:41

So it's kind of like how rewarding is it? It's only up to you how rewarding it is, because you know you're doing the right thing at the end of the day.

Speaker 1: 3:25:51

If you were to start now as a cop, versus 16, 17 years ago, would you be a cop now today?

Speaker 2: 3:26:04

The way it is now. Yeah, hmm, yeah, I think it's a great job. You know, if I could change back some stuff, if I could bring back jeff yeah, let's say you cool talking about jeff?

Speaker 1: 3:26:25

yeah you, you speak of jeff as in a past tense.

Speaker 2: 3:26:29

Yeah, well, so yeah, so two years ago, uh took his life. I'm driving home from work and I remember I got a text message from a guy. Didn't know who it was, didn't have the number saved. And I met this guy before just at the cigar lounge, just never saved his number, totally forgot to. To be honest, I'm driving home from work I got off a little early, so I work for major accidents now, so I do something totally different than a fugitive. So I'm driving home from that and I get this text message and it's like hey, bro, I'm sorry. And I'm like, didn't recognize the number. So I write back. I'm like hey, who's this? Or no.

Speaker 2: 3:27:23

I write back, huh, and he writes back hey, did you hear? And I write back who's this? And he writes back fuck man, I'm sorry. And he calls me right after that. He goes hey, bro, um, man, dude, I'm so sorry. I don't know if you heard this, but jeff just took his life.

Speaker 2: 3:27:45

And I'm like what? I'm like who the fuck is this? First of all, I don't even got your number saved, you know. I'm like um, what do you mean? He tells me who it is and I go. What do you mean? He goes yeah, dude, he maybe an hour ago, and I'm like I was in fucking shock, couldn't believe it. And, um, I'm like where, where are they at? They're at his house.

Speaker 2: 3:28:19

So I go to his house and there's fucking cop cars everywhere and I remember I saw his sister and his sister just broke down and I remember the first phone call I called was one of the Marshall guys because I was so nervous, I didn't even know, I didn't know who to call, I didn't know. I remember the first phone call I called was one of the Marshall guys because I was so nervous, I didn't even know, I didn't know who to call, I didn't know what to do. And I called this one of the Marshalls that was in charge of us, jason Norwick, who was a Marine, and I called him. I was like, hey, dude, jeff just took his life. He's like what? He's like, dude, don't tell me that. I'm like I fucking wish this was a dream and I wish this wasn't real. He's like, fuck, dude, he's like I'm so sorry. And then I saw his mom. I saw his mom and his dad. That shit broke my heart Because I know he wanted to do that child.

Speaker 1: 3:29:44

Take your time, dude.

Speaker 2: 3:29:47

So much so that I remember he was taking prescription medication, so he would come into work and he'd be out of it. And I remember one day they asked me they're like hey, dude, chef, could like fucking solid. And I remember I grabbed him and I was like dude, fucking, work with me, bro. You know I'm trying, you know, let people know that you're good, dude, are you good? He's like I'm good, I go. All right, dude, I fucking I got a kid. Dude, I need to make sure you're good. He's like I'm good, I'm like all right, bet.

Speaker 2: 3:30:52

So I knew that he was struggling, but I knew that he wanted to do that job, so much so that he was taking prescription medication. While he was working with me he fell down the stairs, tried to break his fall and tore his whole rotator cuff. He was fucked up and he was still trying to come back. Dude had a bullet in his head. You know, still wants to be the police. His dad was the police. So I know he wanted to do that. So I told him one day I was like dude, fuck this job, I go, bro. You got a bullet in your head, I go. One of these fucking guys clocks you. We get in a car accident, you fall down the stairs, you're fucked, you're done.

Speaker 2: 3:31:53

The way they explained it to him was you have three layers in your skull or something like that, and I guess the bullet went through the first layer, the second layer and it like fractured the third layer before it gets into your like brain. They're like. The reason why they didn't take it out is they were afraid that if they pull that bullet out, that third layer would just fracture. He'll start leaking fluid into the brain and it'd be a fucking, it'd be done. So they left it in there. So with time it just grew around it. That's painful. So I told him I was like dude, fuck, fuck this, this shit's not worth it. So yeah. So he ended up doing that and fucking broke a lot of people's hearts, you know. So yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:33:02

I'm sorry, man, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:33:13

That dude wanted to be the police, so it's all good.

Speaker 1: 3:33:20

What year was that?

Speaker 2: 3:33:21

I know, I know two years ago. I know he's not suffering. That's all that matters, right? I know he's not suffering. I talked to his sister Sisters, sisters are good, his dad's good, I think. I know. I hope they are His mom and I know they'll be good. I know as much as I want him to be here. Man, I know he's he's good where he's at. I know he's good where he's at I'm sorry dude, it's all good.

Speaker 2: 3:34:08

Yeah, so that's jeff man there's. So I told you stories about him off camera that he'll bring me back in a couple years. I could tell some more, but he was a fucking hell of a fucking copper. He was so happy to get on Fugitive to get his credentials. When they deputized him, he was like, fuck, yeah, he's like now we could get some of that overtime money. I was like, yeah, let's go.

Speaker 2: 3:34:45

And um, this dude would sit at home and call me at like 12 at night like, hey, dude, I found this guy on facebook. I know where he's at. I'm like, bro, I'm trying to fucking go to sleep. Let's deal with this shit tomorrow. He's like, dude, this guy is fucking there right now. This guy would go in his car, his personal car, and fucking do surveillance to catch criminals by himself. What's your favorite memory of him? Oh, man, too many. Um, most of them are just situations where, like I said, we, there's so many situations where we've gotten in where I'm like we're fucking, we're done, the marshals are gonna launch us, you know, and um, nah, dude, this, this dude. Always, jeff knew always how to get out of shit yeah, always skill, that's a skill he.

Speaker 2: 3:35:54

He knew how to get out of shit from you know, willing and dealing people to be like, hey, listen, you know, let us go in the house and search. You know, if not, you know it's gonna get worse. And but people would open their doors. And then those days were if you know, jeff, and you saw him, anybody saw him right now they would be like there's no way this guy's a fucking cop, no way he was tatted from I don't think there was. I mean, he was tatted all over the place. And we knock on the door and people look through the people and they'd be like you're not the fucking police. We're like no, jeff, move over, we're the police, open the door, please, please. I'm like dude, they're not gonna open the door for you, they're not gonna open the door for you.

Speaker 2: 3:36:43

Um, he loved riding motorcycles. He actually you want to talk about a guy that used to piss off state police? He used to ride next to state police and he should just rev it and take off on it just to piss them off, state police. And he's like I don't care. And uh, one day he told me a story that one day he was riding and he got in an accident and he goes, dude, he goes.

Speaker 2: 3:37:15

Everybody at his funeral was telling this story, and some of the guys that ride motorcycles with him. This dude used to stand up on his bike like this oh yeah, just crazy shit, crazy shit. But they said he fell off. He got in a motorcycle accident on the highway, fell off, his motorcycle rolled, tried to, he was, he was sliding on his ass and his pants were like just ripping and he tried to step stand up on his feet. He just kept flipping and flipping and flipping. His buddy picked him up, took him to the hospital and he said state police showed up and they laughed at him. They showed up to the hospital just to laugh at him.

Speaker 2: 3:37:56

Oh, because they knew they knew and I was like dude, what do you expect to do? He's like can you believe those fucking jagger? I would have did the same thing. Yeah, you've been fucking with him this whole time, yeah, and um, he was just a great guy, dude. He was a great police officer. He worked his ass off, he wanted to be the police and, um, you know he struggled with a lot of uh stuff and a lot of people. You know you get. You get these people sometimes that ask you like, hey, did you see signs? I'm sure you've heard that. Like, oh for sure, did you see anything that, that, like you know, caught your attention? And I tell people this all the time if you ever knew jeff and he was acting normal, that's when you got to question it okay because he was never acting.

Speaker 2: 3:38:45

He was always thinking of some wild shit. You know how to get into a house, or how to? How he was gonna, you know, convince his dad that he needs this brand new Corvette. He needs his dad to help him get this brand new Corvette, or this brand new. How he got a grand piano into his house. He was a bachelor. He got this grand piano in his house. When I first became partners with him, I was like dude, this is badass. He's like yeah, they had to hoist it. He lived on the third floor. They had to hoist it into my house. I go, what he goes? Yeah, I go. Can you play it? He goes, absolutely not. I go. Why don't you buy it? He goes, it looks badass, right. I'm like you're fucking stupid. That's a bachelor right there. Yeah, he was like he just wanted to have it in his house. I was like dude, you can't even play. Are you gonna learn? He's like no, he goes, it looks cool. I was like, all right, whatever, dude.

Speaker 2: 3:39:47

So good for jeff yeah man, cool dude, definitely great guy I mean, I mean, you hear so many cops doing this.

Speaker 1: 3:40:00

I mean, like, are there besides going? You hear, if you go and talk to somebody, then you're labeled immediately.

Speaker 2: 3:40:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:40:12

Does that stop you think, a lot of guys from actually?

Speaker 2: 3:40:16

reaching out and getting help. They have these numbers that you can call, where they don't know who they're talking to and it's anonymous. Yeah, they will, Because you're dealing with people every day and you're dealing with the you have. You have the opportunity to take a life if you, if you ever have to, which that's a serious, serious thing for sure To to have the you know the green light to do if, if God forbid, you know you ever had to.

Speaker 2: 3:40:54

You know, take someone's life and you know whether they're God forbid. You ever had to take someone's life. Whether they're shooting at you, they're trying to stab you, whatever the case is, and if you have these tough times that you're going through, I think the department is going to cover their ass before they. Oh sure. So yeah, they're going to label you and that might lead to you being on desk duty, you know which is to a lot of guys, that's the end of a career.

Speaker 1: 3:41:23

Yeah, that's a career ender.

Speaker 2: 3:41:24

You know, like so you're. I knew a guy that was on the desk. He, he, he shot a kid. The kid pointed a gun at him. It was a fake gun. Oh God, kid pointed a gun at him. It was a fake gun. Oh God, kid pointed a gun at him. I think the kid was like 12 years old. He shot, killed the kid it was never the same how can you be.

Speaker 2: 3:41:43

It was never the same and was on the desk for his whole career. Great guy too Super. He's obviously gotten past that. This was like years ago. But a great dude man, a dude that you. You look at him, you're like fuck dude. This guy doesn't deserve to be on the desk. But I know why. Yeah they. They did that because he was probably struggling with the fact that he took his kids. You know this kid's life for sure it's still thing and you, you like.

Speaker 2: 3:42:15

I used to see a lot of people say, hey, listen. This the the thing I hate too sometimes is you see these people and they're like, hey, listen. They talk to their kids and they're like, hey, listen, if you keep acting up, I'm gonna call the police. It's like why you're? You're almost putting us in, that we're the bad guys yeah, you're, you're the authority that's gonna you better stop or I'm gonna call the police.

Speaker 2: 3:42:37

They're gonna come get you. We should drive by. They used to be like. You see them. They're gonna come get you. We keep on. They should be like.

Speaker 1: 3:42:42

Don't say that yeah, because you're, they're labeling you, is that? They're sponges right now they're programming from an early age.

Speaker 2: 3:42:49

Yeah we're not gonna come get you dude. We're not gonna come get you you. But that's no one. Nobody likes the police and I hope one day it'll turn around. I think it will.

Speaker 1: 3:43:02

I hope one day they can understand.

Speaker 2: 3:43:05

Yeah, I think one day, some I think one day people are going to understand how important that job is, because it's very important, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 3:43:14

But I feel at the same time that cops are their own worst enemy at the same time I on a, on a.

Speaker 2: 3:43:23

I think that's on a small scale okay. I think the more important factor is that one day people are going to realize how important the job is I hope so, I hope so yes, the cops can be their worst enemy and yes, when here's the thing though, you have bad apples in every profession. Yep, I tell this to everybody. You got priests that molest kids 100. You got teachers that are fucking students 100 having babies and all types of shit.

Speaker 2: 3:43:58

You got doctors that are prescribing these medications knowing the side effects of 100. You got let's not even go into politics. And how, how corrupt that is. So every profession, every profession, you're going to have bad apples. Police department has them, fire department, I mean every, every job has it. But you can't neglect nobody's. You got nobody's saying, hey, let's defund the teachers unit yeah, which they should let's defund the teachers unit? Yeah, which they should. Let's defund the. How about? Let's stop giving politicians a raise.

Speaker 1: 3:44:43

I get it. No, I get it. It's tough, though, because the political shift that turned on law enforcement I feel it was majorly the obama administration is when we started to to be anti-cop in this country. It was a huge pivot at least that's how I feel. When it, when I started to notice and all that, and then it's just gotten worse. But it's like, how do we correct this? And I I talked to a lot of cops and you know, with our charity and helping program involved in the community, you know, not in it, but around it, and it's I, I feel it's just, it's a the country will never band with cops, for I feel, because of the funding, the cops just aren't educated and taught correctly and have the right resources, so they're doing what they can with the bare minimum in a lot of departments, which stretches them thin, puts stress on these guys.

Speaker 1: 3:45:43

They're not trained properly. I mean, we're helping cops get pistol and carbine training and these guys the last time they've been to courses has been when they went through the academy. Courses has been when they went through the academy and then it's like now we're putting these people into our community that are here to protect and serve and most of them don't even know how to properly even handle a firearm. Half of them are out of shape and it's like okay, if we are going to show the public how important it is, because everybody wants to shit on cops until you need a cop, which is hilarious to me. But it's like how do we get the community in the police force together? Because I have a Rob. You think you watch Rob show Rob's episode. Yeah, he's talking about going to you know, like a quinceanera or there's a cinco de mayo party and showing up.

Speaker 1: 3:46:39

I feel, as long as administrative side of departments are run the way they are, with the corruption and how cannibalistic it is, you're never going to have an awesome police force because it starts at the top, because these guys are getting in trouble for trying to be cops. I feel we need to go old school policing where you're showing up at parties but you're able to know your community, know what's going on on your B and I don't even know if this is realistic, but it's like there's no public cop interaction anymore. Now it's just driving by cruising though there's a cop. Whatever they nod, they're not. You know. You see it here and there, but I personally feel they need to get back into the community more and and I don't even know if it's even a realistic thing anymore, but it's sad to see because you see old school cops and you talk to them like dude. I knew every single person on this block. I could walk anywhere and they knew who I was.

Speaker 2: 3:47:39

They had the respect of the community, but they had like in chicago, for instance, those old school cops, they, they had the respect that not necessarily that you would respect towards your parents, but they had that. Hey, listen, authority, respect. Yeah, like, listen.

Speaker 2: 3:47:59

it's going to be a bad day for you if you're acting up, yeah, and then now what's happening is the problem with what you're saying? That's kind of it's not impossible, For sure. But the problem that you're running to I'm speaking on Chicago and it's probably other departments is now nobody wants to be the police, right? So when no one wants to be the police, now you got to lower the standards.

Speaker 1: 3:48:23

Yup.

Speaker 2: 3:48:24

And once you lower the standards done, you get a few in and they're those. They could be the bad apples, or some could be good, and then you could. Then you you need the numbers, because nobody wants to be the police. Everyone hates the fucking police. So now these old school guys are retiring. They're getting out as soon as they got time. So now the force is young. So now you're gotta gotta get a little lower when it comes to standards. Now it's like how many times you've been arrested? Okay, comes to standards. Now it's like how many times you've been arrested? Okay, yeah, you're good. So the the standards is like oh, you got a couple felonies ah it's okay.

Speaker 2: 3:49:02

Yeah, you know I'm saying like you're. If you're gonna, if you're gonna pull from that, then you, you got to understand that it could happen. Now you could, you could pull from the top tier and still get assholes and cops that don't know how to interact with people and have conversations and treat people with respect. Because a lot of people will get on the job, get the badge, just like you know, and they're shoving it in your face like I'm the police, listen to me this, that, and the third police, listen to me this, that, and the third, yep, and it's not, that's not gonna, that's not how you police, and that's gonna eventually turn into that cop making a mistake because no one's gonna respect that. No, no one wants to respect that.

Speaker 2: 3:49:45

No, you know, I still, to this day, cops get behind me and I still get nervous and I'm a cop because I respected cops from back in the day, like I know how they used to please. Yeah, I mean I. They come up to the car. Yeah, I might show my ID, but I give them my insurance, my ID, my, my insurance, my license, and every now and then I'll throw in my police ID. Now it's, it's a courtesy If they let me go. Cool, but it's still respectful. I know what they're doing, I know what they're about to do. I probably know why they stopped me, so I I've I've been on the other side of this, so I know, but I still respect them. I've I've ran into coppers where they're like there's a video of a cop where he's disrespecting another cop in in chicago where he's like, cursing them out. It's like bro, we're on the same team. Dude like this could go so easy. Like we're, we're on the same team you know, not only the same team, the same department.

Speaker 2: 3:50:47

It's not like a cop from like idaho and fucking california like bro we're in the cpd.

Speaker 1: 3:50:54

Yeah, we checked out like we're on different shifts.

Speaker 2: 3:50:56

We see each other.

Speaker 1: 3:50:56

Yeah, like why are you? It's wild. That's because I feel like those are like the TikTok influencer cops, which is a whole other topic. But that's the shit I feel is ruining the cop community. Putting some tatted blonde hot cop on TikTok and she's the face of your department doing dances in her car isn't helping the community in any way. My opinion. I think you're right. I think it's an absolute joke, but it's like I would rather see her or him there's feet. There's male influencer cops too. I would rather see them out there playing pickup ball for five, ten minutes with a bunch of kids doing a kickflip on a skateboard. Like that, to me, is police like that's getting into the community, not doing some trending stupid tiktok dance because you got a badge and you're gonna get views because you're a hot cop on tiktok. Like that to me, I feel, is I gotta tell you a story about that off camera dude.

Speaker 2: 3:51:50

Okay, that's gonna that, that's gonna blow your mind, oh, I couldn't even imagine.

Speaker 1: 3:51:54

But well, dude, I want to shift gears real quick because it's been fucking almost four hours with you. It goes quick. I know let's talk war machine and we'll wrap this up for you, because I know you got uh, yeah, yeah, we've been here for a long time um, how did you get into making cigars?

Speaker 2: 3:52:09

20 during covid. Um, I was a member at the Cigar Lounge During COVID. Me and my buddy we talked about creating a blend. He is a cigar sommelier so he like knows everything about cigars, yeah. So I talked to him and I was like, hey, listen, dude, I want to create a blend just for me See how it is. He's like all right, dude, let me work on something.

Speaker 2: 3:52:35

I knew this guy in Jersey. This is like a quick story to it. I knew this guy in Jersey, got with him. His cousin owned a tabacalera in Dominican Republic. So I got with him, told him what I wanted to do. He sent me. We refined the blend a little bit. He sent it out to me a couple samples. That first sample was the samples that I paid out of pocket and I sent it to everybody. Um, I sent it to a couple guys that you know and I sent it to dom. I was like, hey, give me, tell some guys that smoke cigars, hit them up, tell them, I'll send it free of charge. Send me their address, tell me what they think, give me some feedback. I had like a thousand cigars or something like that and I just pushed them out to everybody. Got great feedback on it. After that I was like fuck it, let's roll with it. Contacted the guy, I was like hey, listen, let's roll with it. I need to make this something bigger now. So since then that was um, so technically it started 2020.

Speaker 1: 3:53:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:53:39

But like we've been, we've been rolling since 21.

Speaker 1: 3:53:42

Nice dude.

Speaker 2: 3:53:43

And, um, we recently were supposed to drop the uh. So this is a war machine. We were supposed to drop our second blend, the Saigon, but we're having some issues with shipping and licensing, where the tobacco layer that we're using now doesn't have certain license to ship. So now they got to apply for it and we don't know how long it's going to take for them to to get the approval of that. So we're definitely gonna release the saigon. Um, we just have to push it back and we don't know right now we don't have a actual date when we're gonna release it. But yeah, we're, we're definitely gonna release that one and we'll probably release that one. We'll probably after. So these are, these are pretty much done, but after the saigon we're probably going to release two with the saigon.

Speaker 1: 3:54:39

Okay, so the saigon and another one is it being a business owner fun learning, tariffs and taxes, and I I'll go back really quick is, is that, um, I appreciate you guys showing love?

Speaker 2: 3:54:52

oh, absolutely, and I told you this uh earlier that you got you guys showing love? Oh, absolutely, and I told you this earlier that you guys always show love. I respect you and how you have your daughter in the business with you. That's super cool and so I just wanted to just let that be known that I love that that you are creating something with your daughter. Thank you, it's pretty dope. Thank you, yeah, so it means a lot.

Speaker 1: 3:55:18

Yep, I know she sits over there and hears it all, but no, it means, it means a lot man Like it's, it's not easy, you know, and it's.

Speaker 2: 3:55:27

Oh yeah, it's a lot of work. 17 year old, I got a 17 year old so I know it's not easy. You. It's not easy, you know how it is.

Speaker 1: 3:55:37

She's super talented, but I know she's got her own little attitude and their own mind and thought process and so much going on in life. But man, yeah, I'm excited, dude, it's the least we can do here and I've talked about it before and it drives me nuts that there's these veteran platforms that have huge pull and huge numbers and I get it's their platform, but for me it's like, dude, if I can help a vet, a cop, a firefight, whatever it may be, by promoting a, a product, and, dude, you reached right out right away.

Speaker 2: 3:56:07

You're like yo, I'll send the boys some cigars and every big shout out to dom too, man yeah, bro like he connected us and uh, and I told him I was like dude, I want to donate and I want to make sure that it's going to the boys and I want to make sure that it's legit you know it's like wishes, dude. Yeah, I introduce you to bam this.

Speaker 1: 3:56:29

And the third like so big dude huge shout out to dom for the connection and I appreciate the support. And as long as you're slinging cigars, bro, they'll always be part of the podcast and the guests love them. I mean, I'd say the majority of them are cigar guys and and and do it. So yeah, there's. I don't care how big we get. You're one of the ogs that reached out and you'll always have my support and I appreciate you coming on and and sharing some stories.

Speaker 2: 3:56:57

You need to hurry up and retire because I want I want we could tell some other stories when I retire. Give me, give me about three years and uh, I got you.

Speaker 1: 3:57:05

I could give you the unfiltered well, dude, um, any advice and closing remarks. Any advice for anybody wanting to be a cop, any anything you would want to let them know to this younger generation that's getting into it these days.

Speaker 2: 3:57:19

Just do it, man, jump into it headfirst. You're going to learn. I mean, I could tell you things, but you're going to learn on the fly, depending on what department you go to, depending on what city you go to Learn on the fly, do not let the badge change. You remember who you were before you got that job. You're human being. You're dealing with human, other human beings. Make sure you're professional, make sure you um, if you decide to take that route, make sure you're professional and treat everyone with respect. That's it, man. And you, and you know, don't, don't, don't get in any trouble, don't don't tick tock, and you know that's I mean, I know it's, it's the, it's the thing to do now with, with law enforcement, and there's a lot of people that are doing it and I, I don't, I don't, I'm not going to sit here and say it's you're, you're the worst, but it's like realize what you're, you're drawing more attention to yourself.

Speaker 2: 3:58:26

You're in a uniform, you're drawing more attention to yourself, and when you're in that uniform, everyone's going to treat you differently. Yep, no matter what. So do you want that? You do you want extra attention to yourself? No no, now they know you're. Now they know you're the tiktok cop. Now, when you're out with your friends and you get hammered and you get in a car or something like that, they're watching you everybody's watching yep, and they're looking yep.

Speaker 2: 3:58:51

So just be smart about it. And if you want to be the police, just do do it, you know just do it.

Speaker 1: 3:58:57

Well, dude. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Thanks for coming out. I know I've talked about you on almost every episode promoting the cigars and I finally got out here. I think I always say, like he's coming out, we're going to get him on an episode. I don't know how many times I've had to go through that and listen to it on each, each episode, but finally made it happen. So thank you, man.

Speaker 2: 3:59:20

I I appreciate you seriously, this was uh, this was a great conversation, man. Yeah, awesome man. Thank you, I appreciate it for sure, bro I know you lost it over there.