#72 - Beyond the Edge: How One Man Defied Death Multiple Times and Lived to Tell About It w/Jonathan Daige

When JD answered the call to serve his country after 9/11, he couldn't have imagined the battles that lay ahead, not just in Iraq's dangerous terrain but within his own body. This extraordinary conversation takes us through his journey as an Army soldier driving fuel trucks through the early chaos of the Iraq War, his transition to law enforcement where he dangled off a six-story building to save a suicidal man, and his most personal fight: battling stage 4 cancer that attacked his testicle, lungs, and brain.

The conversation reveals not just survival, but transformation. JD's cancer battle inspired him to create Thin Blue Ride, a nonprofit that is doing the Lord's work for veterans and first responders battling cancer. His achievements defy medical expectations, from competing in grueling physical competitions to trekking to Everest Base Camp with compromised lung function.

Perhaps most powerful are the practical insights JD offers for anyone facing cancer or supporting someone who is. He discusses the importance of early detection, knowing your body, being your own medical advocate, and finding purpose through hardship. His recently published book "Beyond Survival" chronicles this remarkable journey.

JD's story forces us to confront uncomfortable statistics, 5,600 Americans diagnosed with cancer daily and over half a million Global War on Terror veterans now living with cancer, while providing resources that could save lives. For veterans, first responders, cancer patients, or anyone seeking inspiration, this episode demonstrates how our greatest challenges can become our most meaningful contributions to others.

Visit thinblueride.org to learn more about JD's organization, Thin Blue Ride, or to contact him directly if you're battling cancer or know someone who is. As he reminds us, sometimes the most healing thing we can do is share our story. To donate to our veterans and first responders battling cancer, please CLICK HERE!

To follow along on JD's incredible journey visit:

Thin Blue Ride Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thinblueride/
Thin Blue Ride Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thinblueride/
To purchase a copy of his incredible book, "Beyond Survival" CLICK HERE

JD's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/daige22/

Chapters

• 0:00 Life-Saving Heroics on a Rooftop
• 10:40 Small Town Roots to Military Service
• 24:00 Early Days in Iraq: Dust, Danger and Adaptation
• 45:10 Second Deployment: Different War, Same Country
• 1:07:15 From Military to Police Work
• 1:22:23 The Cancer Diagnosis and Multiple Battles
• 1:45:18 SWAT Team Adventures and Challenges
• 2:13:22 Creating Thin Blue Ride to Help Others
• 2:35:22 Conquering Everest with Partial Lungs
• 3:00:57 Finding Purpose and Sharing the Journey

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

shoot him with the beanbag gun. Boom, boom, turns and runs to the edge. I grabbed his right leg. He fell over backwards over the edge and he's fighting us and I land on my chest and I'm looking down like six stories to the sidewalk. We're going over.

Speaker 2: 0:16

You hear people screaming like in horror ready, bro JD, this is gonna be a good one. I'm excited for it because you have been through a lot, you've accomplished a lot and we got some things to cover. You're a US soldier. You served your country, did two deployments overseas to Iraq in the early days which I always find fascinating because the stories are wild and then you got to go back a little bit later so things had evolved, so I definitely want to cover those topics. You got out, became a cop. You served 18 years near the Boston police region About an hour outside of Boston.

Speaker 2: 1:16

About an hour outside of Boston, so I'm sure a lot of that trickles in and out. You did 18 years before you kind of got discharged due to your cancer, and so you are a cancer survivor. You started it with testicular cancer, moved to your lungs, had huge chunks of your lungs removed, then eventually went to your brain. You had two different brain surgeries and now you're hooking and jabbing. You started an organization, the Thin Blue Ride, which I definitely want to dig into.

Speaker 2: 1:43

As somebody that I've had an organization for over a decade, I know the goods, the bads, the uglies that come along with it so I definitely want to cover some of that, and then we'll roll into your book, man, uh, being able to write kind of a little bit about what you've done and accomplished, I'm sure we'll cover a lot. That's in there. I mean, you fuck for crying out loud, you, you've done Mount Everest and some other really cool stuff. So that's, I guess, the little intro, the elevator pitch of what we're going to dive into today. I appreciate you being here. I appreciate everybody for tuning in. This is going to be another great episode of the Wild Chaos Show and, dude, let's dive right into it.

Speaker 2: 2:20

So where are you from?

Speaker 1: 2:22

From Leicester Massachusetts.

Speaker 2: 2:25

Leicester.

Speaker 1: 2:25

Massachusetts. What right into it. So where are you from? From lester, massachusetts. Lester, massachusetts what's that like? So small town. Grew up, um, on pretty much a family compound. It was nana and grandpa's house. They raised 10 kids. My parents built a house behind them, aunts and uncles built a house next to them. Aunts and uncles house built the house next to them. So now it's I mean, we have my sisters there, my nephew.

Speaker 1: 2:48

we have a big 90 foot tall pine tree that we uh my father has a crane company, so we decorate the Christmas tree every year, get a big bonfire. We call it Festivus. So I grew up on like 25 acres of woods and reservoir behind the house and nobody could build. And there's a Worcester airport behind that. So great to grow up in that area, ride bikes, build forts, booby traps, whatever.

Speaker 2: 3:13

Now, it's when kids could be kids?

Speaker 1: 3:14

Yeah, exactly, and then go fishing and now it's more like try to get the kids outside. I get two step kids to call it my real kids, but yeah, they love you know, when they're outside they love it. So it's nice to go back to where it all started, For sure.

Speaker 2: 3:29

Yeah, I bet you're bringing them back there. I don't know the age when you know you started taking them back, but if they went from not experiencing anything like that to that is could be a culture shock.

Speaker 1: 3:39

Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2: 3:40

I'm sure for mom too, and if dependent where she's from, if how's how citified she is, yeah, she's uh.

Speaker 1: 3:46

She grew up in worcester and then moved to new jersey for like 18 years okay kids were from jersey and then when they came back, it was actually the first time they met. The family was at our festivus party, okay, and we kind of have the our own street. It's like two buildings, all two houses, and then a building, my dad's old welding shop, and I'm like, yeah, the kids could walk down to Nana and Grandpa. She's like by themselves. I'm like, yeah, like we could see it.

Speaker 1: 4:13

It's like a couple hundred yards away, are you sure? Going from, you know, jersey to Leicester is a little different.

Speaker 2: 4:19

The country? Yeah, Big culture shock. What made you join the Army and why the Army? Big culture shock.

Speaker 1: 4:25

What made you join the Army and why the Army? So initially I was throwing it up in the air whether Marines or Army.

Speaker 1: 4:34

When I was in high school my sister was a year older, Okay, and some of her friends were also older. So I was a freshman hanging out with freshmen, sophomore juniors, seniors, and some of the seniors ended up joining the Marines. So that was an interest and then time went on kind of faded. I knew I still wanted to do the military thing and then graduated 2001, worked for my dad in the steel fab shop. So I grew up from the eighth grade on doing like work you got exposed.

Speaker 2: 5:07

You're exposed at an early age. I mean any fab work and being around those, just I'm sure the employees in the shop or are teaching you, yeah, like these guys, everyone called me junior, even though I'm not junior, but I was boss's kid and that's a tag.

Speaker 1: 5:21

Yeah, my father ran a uh small welding company. He bought it when he was 18 years old really he went to boys trade so he did like two years of high school, two years of trade, bought this business with like a truck and a name, and then he built it up. So really good for him.

Speaker 1: 5:36

yeah, proud of jack for like building his empire of taking care of people. Like people would come in with broken car frames, he'd'd weld them, no kidding, and a lot of the times the small stuff not charged people reputable in the industry and in the area. Then that built up to doing more, not union. We were scab welders, so it was just putting up relatively big structures nothing crazy. And we started doing iron work and we needed to rent cranes. Then we bought a crane. Then the cranes turned into a crane business that my dad started with my uncle.

Speaker 1: 6:13

Yeah, so we um, so you know we'd always rent it, so we're like we might as well, you know, buy it. And around that time I was in high school and I remember driving to get our second crane in West Virginia. Me and my uncle drove down, picked it up and I was leaving for basic training like the next week, and that was October, because a month before was nine 11.

Speaker 2: 6:35

Uh, was nine 11, a huge factor on why you joined?

Speaker 1: 6:38

Yeah. So the nine 11 happened and I think two days later I was down at the recruiter like, okay, this, this is bigger than me, I need to serve. I think two days later I was down at the recruiter like, okay, this, this is bigger than me, I need to serve. I think everybody should do some sort of serving for something, a greater good hundred percent, whether it's military. I mean I even see it from when I was a cop like kids in the summit, like juniors and seniors in high school in the city or towns should work with dpw to see how things work what's dpw?

Speaker 1: 7:08

a department of public works. Okay, so, like you know, all the road work yeah, you know that's not crazy work, it's people need to figure out. Kids need to figure out that there's stuff bigger than them that they should learn how to do yes get a shovel you know putting out cones holding streets, yeah easy stuff.

Speaker 2: 7:26

I'm with you. I feel that is a huge disconnect, that or an unjust service that we do to our youth in this country, because everybody claims that we it's about the youth, they're the future.

Speaker 2: 7:38

I think it's such bullshit in that how we pitch that we support our youth so much because we don't yeah we see it in our public school systems, but like just for a fact that you have these kids that are seniors, juniors going into senior year, seniors, whatever. If we truly cared about these kids, I feel these cities would start opening up more programs to them yeah and not forcing them.

Speaker 2: 8:01

But hey, you get either extra credits, you can graduate early exactly work this summer program where you're digging ditches, you're setting out cones, you're helping, whatever it may be. There's a million jobs that we can put these kids into, where they're learning some sort of skill to make them just start thinking. Like hey this is the real world. I probably should have paid attention all these years. Or maybe college isn't so bad, or they might get into and find some foreman that really enjoys and brings them on, and now they're stepping right into a job, right into blue collar.

Speaker 1: 8:33

There is money in working with your hands, like 100 it's. You know. I think my, like our generation of it was always go to college. Yeah, and college was never on my radar. I applied to one college. My sister went to dean college. They had a you know football team. I'm like, oh, maybe I'll try and get on. Whatever I applied, I took bullshit classes my senior year because I just never who doesn't? Yeah, I never took it seriously. I was, you know, doing burnouts in my camaro, doing video one, video two gym class like the basic stuff to get by choir, because my aunt was the choir teacher it was a guaranteed aid.

Speaker 2: 9:15

I ended up running the sound and lights and so she's like super easy.

Speaker 1: 9:19

Yeah, senior year and it was, and you know, playing on the football team it was like we small town but we ended up, you know, winning our Super Bowl. We played West Springfield, which we were not, you know, we were the underdog, which was pretty cool. So, yeah, growing up doing youth sports, I think that helped with the mindset of, you know, the team mentality For sure, mentality sure, and going into the military. That also helped with previously playing sports, playing football.

Speaker 1: 9:50

football be like, oh this sucks, this sucks you know, going into the army like, well, this sucks, but I've had it worse before, so you know. You take your previous previous sufferings and you learn from those and carry those onto the next thing, because if you see people that get into a tough situation and they've never been in a tough situation it shows that is their biggest roadblock and some people cannot get around it.

Speaker 2: 10:16

I feel the majority of people that's when they quit yeah, that's when they quit with business life relationships. That is such a crucial thing for young people to learn yeah is those roadblocks and how to overcome them. Like to with, like our kids work, figure it out.

Speaker 2: 10:34

Come come back to me with a solution and if it's not, we'll guide you through it, but like you need to start the thought process which I feel there's so many hover parents these days here's an ipad, here's this, and they just bubble their kids and then now they have this adult child that's never been told, no, never had the struggle, because they've had everything just provided to them due to the parents protecting and raising their child. And then now you have this 18-year-old man child that lives in your house throwing tantrums because now he's got to go get a real job.

Speaker 2: 11:03

Yeah, I mean, I remember going to once when I joined the army, they had a better deal than the marines did?

Speaker 1: 11:14

they had the post 11 gi bill all always more money, more funding, everything and a bigger bonus for doing the same job.

Speaker 1: 11:19

I'm like, well, I might as well drive trucks in the army backs. That's what I wanted to do. I thought about going active duty and then I told myself, if I join active duty and I'm stuck somewhere for two years, there's no way out, Right? So I went reserve. So you're smart, and I said, if I like it, I could put in to go active duty. And I I mean I thrived, meaning I enjoyed it. I, I, I mean I thrived, meaning I enjoyed it. I went to basic we're marching around, we're running around, we're shooting. I'm like we're getting paid for this. I'm like this is awesome. Like I'd be at home grinding and sucking up dust and priming these beams, Like I got to get up a little early, but easy Like this is awesome Thriving in that hands-on learning environment, so you so at boot camp thrived.

Speaker 2: 12:04

Oh yeah, not an issue okay, yeah, so what's what's army? Because you guys don't. You guys call it basic training, right, yeah, um, what is basic training like in the army? So what year is this? What year did you go?

Speaker 1: 12:14

oh three. So it was the push when everyone signed up okay, and I was actually in reception which is you get off the bus, you process. It's not like the movies, where you get off, they shave your head and you go right in.

Speaker 2: 12:25

It's more.

Speaker 1: 12:26

I mean, the Marines may be like that. That's 100% like that. Yeah so we get off and it was paperwork and they were pushing all the combat arms ahead because we were support MOSs like truck drivers generator, you name it like non-combat arms. So we had a twoweek lag period to start basic because it was such an influx of people signing up after 9-11 you had huge classes, oh yeah okay, so we ended up fort knox, kentucky.

Speaker 1: 12:54

Do some paperwork, go to cif, get our camis and get our. You know, you guys call them sea bags, like, get all our gear. What do you guys call them duffel bags? Okay, um, and makes sense, just sitting in the sitting in these kind of secondary barracks, yep, going to chow, going to standard formation, you're waiting. Barracks was waiting.

Speaker 1: 13:15

Yeah, so like you couldn't smoking, you could joke a little bit like it was, but it's pre, it was pre-basic. So everyone's like dude, don't eat the crispy cream donuts in the chow line you guys had crispy cream donuts, served them like nobody touched them.

Speaker 2: 13:29

Some army shit. You guys got crispy cream donuts, yeah, oh, my god see.

Speaker 1: 13:34

Yeah, that's why I tell everybody don't like, don't drink or go everywhere well, and then, as soon as we started, yeah, and it was like it was, and all we did was walk from one company area to another and it was like all hell broke loose.

Speaker 1: 13:45

Yeah, it was like it was, and all we did was walk from one company area to another and it was like you know, it was nuts, it was crazy, it was fun. You know, uh, if you're late for me, not even late for formation, everyone not fast enough, everyone, go inside, do it again. Getting your PTs come out, move the. Move the bunks out and move them in. Move the whole barracks in and out, like it was wild Polish, the, and move them in. Move the whole barracks in and out like it was wild polish the floors. And then, oh, you guys aren't carrying your own weight, and then you do like a seal walk, so your boots are shining and scraping like a snail trail all the way around you guys are still buff.

Speaker 2: 14:17

Oh yeah, they're still.

Speaker 1: 14:17

Yeah, we had, uh, we had the black boots and, oh see, I dodged all that yeah, I was like the second because 03 you guys had the digis, right.

Speaker 2: 14:25

Right, I was one of the original classes that they just ended it. We missed it by weeks, I believe, because there were still guys at boot camp wearing the old camis. But we got the new ones and it was a big deal. So I was like, all right, cool, and we didn't have to brush your boots and polish them and all I hear guys talking those stories like the old I'll give old school marines or vets, you guys can have the polished boots.

Speaker 2: 14:52

What is the starch? The starch your seams and all that shit. We, yeah I'm cool with, I'm never doing any of that because you know, you guys don't know, you're the, you're the new core. You guys have it so easy, don yes.

Speaker 1: 15:05

I'll take it, you know more time. It was either cleaning your boots or cleaning your weapon. It's just more time, it's just more time. But then they just substituted hazing yeah, without something else.

Speaker 2: 15:14

Yeah, instead of you sit there for hours waxing your boots or polishing your boots, now you're doing something stupid, even dumber.

Speaker 1: 15:25

So yeah, doing something stupid, even dumber. So yeah, they'll find the time. Yeah, so then so basic went to truck driving school down in fort leonard wood okay learned how to drive trucks and then I realized I was going into a pol unit, which is a fuel transportation unit out of brockton really so I get attached to 325th trans out of brockton mass. So you guys are hauling the big fuel trucks yeah, so well, there's 10 000 gallon.

Speaker 2: 15:42

We did 5 000 gallon okay and if they're 5 000 gallon you fill them with like 4 700 gallons are the 10 000 ounce of double tankers, or are they just a long, just a big?

Speaker 1: 15:52

huge ones. Yeah, ours are a little more, you know, just a little smaller. Um, so go to the unit and go to canada for training canada. Yeah, I went to gaugetown, canada, for our first at like how far?

Speaker 2: 16:09

over the border is uh not too.

Speaker 1: 16:12

It took us two days to get there because we're driving humvees and you guys drove for two. Oh my god, how much did you guys break down at all yeah, we stopped in maine for an overnight and then, you know, we just, I was brand new, I was driving like the platoon sergeant's vehicle how loud is it in these trucks?

Speaker 1: 16:30

you can't even talk to each other so you're driving for two days just in this screaming military truck oh, my platoon sergeant was a nerd so I he kept like falling asleep and I'm like e2, nothing just started. This dude's sleeping so I just like look over and I go over the rumble strips.

Speaker 2: 16:46

And then with those military tires like the whole truck is just vibrating.

Speaker 1: 16:50

It was so funny. It was funny, though so did the training, and then fast forward to January. I remember I'm at home living with my parents. I'm 20 years old. We're watching. We were soldiers. Okay, I get a phone call. We're going Grab your shit, come to the unit this weekend. We got orders.

Speaker 2: 17:10

That's how it happens in a reserve unit. Yeah, that kind of gives you goosebumps so you're just hanging out with your family. Yeah, just chilling. You just get a phone call Watching. We Were Soldiers Really. What are the chances?

Speaker 1: 17:22

Yeah, and really, what are the chances?

Speaker 2: 17:26

yeah, and I was, I was like, okay, you know, this is kind of what I signed up for. What year?

Speaker 1: 17:29

is this oh, three okay so you're january, oh three.

Speaker 2: 17:31

So I'm just going to boot camp. You're getting the call to go to iraq yeah okay, because I I went right in the very right, in the very beginning.

Speaker 1: 17:38

Yeah, january so then we go to fort drum and spent two and a half months there. We were supposed to go to Turkey, but then that got jacked up. So we're trying to figure out where they're going to send the POL unit. We ended up going to Kuwait initially.

Speaker 2: 17:56

Let's talk Fort Drum real quick. It's hilarious to me because I grew up I'm 20 minutes north of Fort Drum. I had to deal with bum drums or drum bums our whole entire life. What's it like on a military side? Because where I I greatest place you could ever imagine growing up, we're, in my opinion, on the saint lawrence river, the frozen tundra in the winter time, but the army comes there to do their cold weather training. Yeah, what's it like from your perspective of having to go up there? I'm sure it's not as much fun from you for you guys yeah, so we drove on coach buses from brockton to fort drum okay and the buses pull up.

Speaker 1: 18:36

It's, you know, foot of snow on the ground maybe. And we're pulling up to these world war II barracks and we're laughing looking out the window. The bus stops.

Speaker 2: 18:46

Who the hell's got to live in these?

Speaker 1: 18:47

things Bus stops and we're like, oh shit, so we get out. These are abandoned barracks that they used from whenever right Like every base has them. For sure. And they put new rooftops on them every year because if they don't use it, they lose it for funding New coats of paint. Yeah, new coats of paint, whatever, and over 100 other layers of paint.

Speaker 1: 19:11

So I remember we had four-man rooms, wall lockers in the middle, open bay showers, and we just got ready. And we just got ready. So to mobilize a reserve unit, we have to. Everyone's dental has to be up to date, medical, all the paperwork. Get your affairs in order on top of weapons, call pt god. I would not want to do the logistics for that so like yeah, it's crazy. And I mean hats off to my company commander, captain gano. He was like 32, 33 at the time in charge of a whole company.

Speaker 2: 19:48

You don't think of that as a young troop in your leadership, because they're still young themselves.

Speaker 1: 19:54

Like I'm 42. I don't want to be in charge of 120.

Speaker 2: 19:58

A bunch of reservist kids. Hell, no, that's like herding cats. They're just everywhere, in every direction.

Speaker 1: 20:05

It's funny, In our unit we actually had a lot of senior guys, guys that had been in for a long time. We actually had this one guy who was a Vietnam vet.

Speaker 2: 20:14

Really, yeah A Vietnam vet in your reserve unit and he got deployed.

Speaker 1: 20:19

He did not get deployed. Actually, no one did get deployed. Another guy didn't, because of medical.

Speaker 2: 20:25

Okay.

Speaker 1: 20:25

Actually, no one did get deployed. Another guy didn't, because of medical. But yeah, they ripped my wisdom teeth out. Five shots of Novocaine, like all right, you're ready, dude. I went to dental. This colonel was a dentist and they go yeah, we're going to pull these teeth. He didn't say wisdom teeth. And I was still 20 years old that was like when people were getting their wisdom teeth taken out and I was like clueless. I thought he was just pulling some teeth. Five shots of Novocaine. He's like hey, you might hear some pops and cracks. He had his knee on my chest, pulled one. He's like tap me if it hurts. I'm like slapping the crap out of him. I'm like like dude pulls another one and then we're just chewing on cotton balls, so it'll, I don't I want to dig into this.

Speaker 2: 21:13

I have a weird slight conspiracy about the military pulling wisdom teeth, that they're using them for something.

Speaker 1: 21:20

Why the fuck else are they forcing everybody, yeah, to pull, they weren't bothered there was other dudes there too, like we look like chipmunks in the waiting room. The whole platoon.

Speaker 2: 21:28

Yeah, they tried that shit with me at boot camp and my parents spent a lot of money on my teeth when I was a kid. It was big because we didn't have any money. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:35

So it was a big ordeal and I'll never forget that. Dennis is like you have perfect wisdom teeth, everything is coming straight. Your mole, everything is perfect, like the you know, the ones that you normally have pulled. I get to boot camp and they're like we're pulling wisdoms and molars or whatever, and I was like, even as a kid, 18 year old- kid I was like um, no, like yeah, you're not pulling mine.

Speaker 2: 21:57

Like I remember my dentist said I was good, they're like to get the fuck out of line and that was all it took. Yeah, but then everybody else like who hasn't had their wisdom teeth who's gonna hurry up and get to training anyways?

Speaker 2: 22:05

so they're like, yeah, whatever yeah, and they're not technically the drill instructors, they're just the medical side of it. So I was like my teeth are perfect. And they were like get the fuck out of line. Well then, my rack mate, he got his pulled and I there's a whole, the half the platoon is left behind in chow because they're all got gauze in there.

Speaker 2: 22:21

Dude, I was bringing these dudes steaks. My rack mate it was steak night when he was recovering from his teeth and I got him You're supposed to just get him like applesauce and bread. That's what you guys live off of for. Like the first week he's over there just pulling and I'll have him on one day because he's a US Marshal now, so he's all over the world. But when I get sitting there on the quarter deck just tearing the steak apart and there's just blood pouring it, he didn't even care because you know you're not eating anything. I think the last, like three days prior, four days prior to that, I would just bring him applesauce with white bread and that's what he was eating. So he, it's all he lived off of for three or four days. So I would go through the chow line. I see steaks at night. I'm like like dude, I'm like I gotta hook my boy up. That's funny. He didn't care though. But yeah, it's so interesting that, yeah, they put like why a?

Speaker 1: 23:07

bunch of teeth. So I remember someone in our unit she uh had her wisdom teeth and she needed to go to like kuwait to have surgery and then, while you're in, oversea we're in iraq, yeah, okay yeah, so I'll go in.

Speaker 1: 23:19

So we end up going to iraq. I mean, we're dude, it was so cold in fort drum. We had our trucks, we had 818s which were like, if you look at vietnam, those are the trucks we had. Okay, yeah, like the truck that was in rambo, like like those trucks, yeah, so we're bringing those to iraq.

Speaker 2: 23:35

You guys drove those all the way up to fort drum they we didn't drive them.

Speaker 1: 23:41

Okay, they were there after we got there. Okay, somehow another unit or whatever, and we had our motor pool and we. It was so cold, the fuel would gel up and the trucks would stall so instead of fire watch we needed to have fuel watch, and dudes would stay up all night and we'd rotate on keeping the trucks running really.

Speaker 2: 24:03

Yeah, people don't think see when they're like yes and we're like, oh yeah, we're going to iraq but you don't realize how cold it is. It's not I don't know if it's that cold in iraq, but I was fortunate enough to do end of summer, yeah, fall winter, spring gone, yeah, but we froze our asses off in iraq. So it does get, yeah, miserably cold first time was hot.

Speaker 1: 24:24

Second time we had the fleece with the beanies and stuff and lucky sons of bitches on you walking around with your black zip up.

Speaker 2: 24:31

I have one. I have a story about those black fleeces. I've told on here that we stole a bunch one night out of a motor pool. We were my buddy's vehicle went down and we were. We had to fix some stuff on it to get it back up and running. And I'll never forget, as we're working on it, I see these soldiers come into the motor. They're in a like a big lot next to us, but with a chain link fence. Yeah, that's dividing us, and these dudes are pulling fleeces out of these black boxes. And here we are in flight suits yeah, that are underwear, t-shirt, thin, freezing in the middle of the night in iraq in our flight suits, and I've seen this. And so I cut a hole in the fence with wire cutters, yeah, and we snuck in and I stole.

Speaker 1: 25:09

We stole so many of them that's what deployment is about is acquiring equipment strategically requiring your equipment.

Speaker 2: 25:15

Yeah, it's the best you just steal from everybody.

Speaker 1: 25:18

Yeah, we're the only marines I think in country with black army fleeces that they were so nice.

Speaker 2: 25:23

Those things were a lifesaver, yeah. So you guys, you freeze your ass off at Fort Drum for a bit. Yeah, how long after you guys did that training were you in Iraq?

Speaker 1: 25:34

So two and a half months of training, we ended up landing in Kuwait March 24th 2003. We had commercial planes that were leased or rented from the military. Okay, with regular, you know flight attendants and staff we land in. I forget the name arafjan, maybe yeah yeah, and getting off the plane, everyone's grabbing their gear. We're like we could feel the heat coming in and then we hear lightning, lightning, lightning. Everyone's looking around like what the hell is lightning as you're getting off the plane getting off the plane middle of the day and then we getting off.

Speaker 1: 26:12

You see dudes like donning their masks and running into bunkers. We're like, oh okay, because during training they say gas, gas, gas and everyone throws them stops breathing, close your eyes, put your mask on Worst training ever.

Speaker 1: 26:26

So now we're running to bunkers. I run to a bunker and this British dude I could tell by the camouflage he's like no room in here, mate, and shuts the door. So me and my buddies go find another bunker to hunker down in and then, once you put your masks on, you have to put your J's list, your other chemical suit, on. So we get our mask, go in the bunker and then it's like you put on these overalls, put on the jacket, put on the gloves, put on the boots, and then I'm sitting there looking at my water bottle because in the masks there's a straw that you could grab with your tongue, and then you grab it on the outside and you plug it in the top of the canteen. We did not have canteens of water, we had the liters of water.

Speaker 2: 27:11

So you're sitting here.

Speaker 1: 27:11

I'm looking at this water sweating and I'm just like yep, I'm like this is welcome to our, welcome to war. I guess, yeah, welcome to Kuwait.

Speaker 2: 27:20

Yeah, welcome to kuwait you guys are kuwait minutes before you get, oh yeah, incoming attack. Yeah. So this is, this is the fascinating part that I have with you guys of the early, the early war dogs that were there during the mop suit days. Because you know, as the senior, so you would be a senior guy to us because we, when I hit the fleet, everybody was doing like the push and doing all that stuff. But you hear all these stories of like, oh, we were in mop suits and chemical suits for weeks, for three weeks straight, the shit and pissing them like I, you guys can have that era.

Speaker 1: 27:58

So the mop suits you. You have your camouflage uniform t-shirt, camis, blouse, pants and then, when the alert goes on, you put on your suit over that, like you're not taking your pants and jacket off, you're like throwing your suit on and we had od green camo cooking in the sun. Yeah, we're cooking. We're a bunch of nerds. Everyone, everyone's in desert here and we're in our reserve, then you can tell who the reserve is.

Speaker 2: 28:24

Yeah, look at those guys and then Newbies.

Speaker 1: 28:28

So then after that, some guys, if they were walking around in Kamsu we didn't at that time we were still kind of like. I mean, that base was kind of a garrison base. Yeah, for sure. You still have to be in uniform, and then we'd go to the chow hall and then we'd play baseball, drink some Tang how long were you there? For it felt like forever. I think it was five days. Okay.

Speaker 1: 28:57

Because I remember hearing on NPR or whatever radio station that Jessica Lynch got captured during one of the convoys. Okay, and then here we are, a new transportation company going north to iraq.

Speaker 2: 29:07

we're like, oh okay, this is oh, that's right, because she was motor t yeah. And so here you guys are listening to the kazir convoy got ambushed. A bunch of people got killed, if I remember correctly, right I'm not, yeah, probably, I'm not sure don't hold me to that instagram veteran. Tick tockers yeah, they make sure so. So then my company commander asked for volunteers to go to. Probably I'm not sure. Don't hold me to that Instagram veteran.

Speaker 1: 29:24

TikTokers yeah, they make sure to contact you. So then my company commander asked for volunteers to go to Iraq.

Speaker 2: 29:30

Really so they weren't taking all of you just volunteers.

Speaker 1: 29:32

No, they just wanted an advanced party. Okay, me and my buddy Lyd were like this Like dude, let's go. We didn't come here to hang out, for sure. We hop in the back of a five ton open cargo truck, rucksacks on the sides hanging off, because we needed more room inside. Cause.

Speaker 1: 29:49

I don't know how many troops you fit in the back of a five ton, but we exceeded that Always. One more. There was always room for one more, and it was, I remember a spare tire in the middle and we were just baking in the sun. So from Arafatian all the way to the Iraq border.

Speaker 2: 30:04

How long did that take of a ride? Maybe three to five hours I compare, anything that you do in iraq is like just texas yeah oh, we're gonna go check out this little village and like eight hours later you're like bro, like where the fuck is this place? Yeah, everything is like driving in texas it's like just nothing is just the next town over. It was always hours. Yeah, so you guys are. No, no armored vehicles. No, you're an open top five ton.

Speaker 1: 30:32

Yeah, just cruising the roads in iraq cruising the roads so we get to the dmz up south of the border, like you can see the border, yeah, like this big trench and fences and tanks dug in and everyone's a lot of that was from the gulf war, correct, or was this all, I think?

Speaker 1: 30:49

this is all new okay, okay and then, um, then guys are taking their chem suits off because we saw other guys doing it, like monkey, see, monkey do they're taking the stuff off like, oh, iraq's not gonna bomb iraq. And oh, back to when we landed the plane. It was either march 24th or 27th. They actually sent two scuds and one landed in the persian gulf and the other one hit like a starbucks in kuwait. So it was either. Like we kept putting our suits on every like five times a day. Oh so every time we had alert, some fake alerts. I remember waking up in the middle of the night to a huge bang. The next day they were like the base was like, yeah, that was just a connex. We're like was it? Was it just a connex that dropped? So here's a question.

Speaker 2: 31:35

Did you ever get to the point when they had these nuclear packs, where you just lay there?

Speaker 1: 31:42

and were like fuck, I don't even care. Yeah, we're just, like you know, sitting in our tents because we were still every.

Speaker 2: 31:50

Everyone was together everywhere.

Speaker 3: 31:50

So like you still had everyone to be like dude put your shit on.

Speaker 1: 31:52

Don't be the guy I was like. I don't even give a shit, it's my time. It's my time that like that and then you're like, what if it's real? Like let me just throw this on.

Speaker 2: 31:57

And then, when you're the only one you're like all right, I'll get dressed, I guess yeah so, um.

Speaker 1: 32:03

So then we take our J's list off, chem suits off, and we're driving through the border and there's a little village that we're driving through and these kids come out and you know, just after that we're driving by these burnt vehicles that are like newly burnt no shit From the push, Yep. And we drive up probably a couple more hours and then, on the left side of the road, we're heading north on msr tampa, um, highway 8 or highway of death, whatever. There's the highway, and then there's hundreds of vehicles from desert storm that were blown up, that they just pushed to the side of the road I mean, that's cool to be able to see, like history, like that.

Speaker 2: 32:46

So you're there. What was the feeling like? Seeing all of this war wreckage? And here you are, brand new, and you just volunteered to like cross the border into iraq yeah, I'm like.

Speaker 1: 32:57

So it's kind of like when you see something crazy I think it's called like operant extinction like you see something and then you adapt to it and you're like, oh, like, all right on to the next, so you see something else crazy and then it's just to the side, it just raises you up and you're like, oh, we're going to iraq, like, oh, we're in iraq, it's not that bad.

Speaker 1: 33:18

Oh, we're going north, oh, there's some burnt vehicles. Oh well, it's not us. Like we're not getting shot at. You're right, yeah, we don't think of it like that. Um, I think in generation kill they had a great point. They were getting shot at, they were behind a seven ton tire and he's like people say iraq's not safe. He's like I'm pretty safe right here. He's behind the tire and I'm like, yeah, that's kind of how you think. Like, yeah, I guess that's my mindset. Like 100, you know, we're safe now. Um, so we drove up and then we drove to camp cedar, one middle of nowhere, like get off the five ton and the dust just rises. So that base was right off the highway, easy on and off middle of nowhere, and we had 10 000 gallon tankers on that base. This was like a no berm, no wire, it was nothing, just in the middle of nowhere middle of nowhere.

Speaker 1: 34:11

We had a winter tent with no floors. There was so many soldiers in that tent. Cots were like stacked on. Oh yeah, the the rods are on the bars yeah, yeah and then I go to the chow hall.

Speaker 1: 34:25

It was basically the trailer where they have like the t-rats so it's like the lasagna style dishes and they I forget what it was. I remember green beans and probably some meat, but I remember like just bugs being in it and I was so hungry I was just shoveling everything in my mouth and I look like east and I see this huge like wave. It's a sandstorm coming, so everyone's like hustling, finishing their chow, going to the tent and it's just like you can't see from me to you away yeah and I'm in the tent, I'm like, oh my god, this ain't that bad.

Speaker 1: 35:00

There's still sand blown everywhere. And then I'm laying down. I go crap, I forgot my sleeping bag. So wherever I got off the truck, no so I did a pace count to like go find my sleeping bag, you can put my goggles on. Found it.

Speaker 2: 35:15

Came back like oh my god, we had like winter sleeping.

Speaker 1: 35:19

We had like the old style. We didn't have the three layer gore takes. We had like the like the feather winter. Okay, furry bags like you just kind of slept on them, yeah, but um, yeah, so that was day one.

Speaker 2: 35:30

I'm like, all right, this is, that was all in the first day. Yeah, that's insane.

Speaker 1: 35:34

And we started right seating with the new york city company. We were doing fuel transportation and they were kind of showing us the ropes. They were there for I don't know how long a month or two and on our base they had 10,000 gallon fuel tankers, open up the J valve like a six inch valve on the back of the truck and they would empty fuel all over the road to keep the dust down. That's insane. So we didn't have water, we had fuel and they were just driving around Spraying fuel, spraying fuel everywhere, because that moon dust is a whole other level, yeah, insane. So we didn't have water.

Speaker 2: 36:04

We had fuel and they were just driving around spraying fuel, spraying fuel everywhere because that moon dust is a whole other level.

Speaker 1: 36:08

Yeah, like if you're the first truck, you can drive. If you're the second truck, you could kind of see we have 30 trucks. If you're the third, fourth, fifth, all the way to 30, you can't see anything in front of you no like there are points we're driving.

Speaker 2: 36:22

Our sop was don't stop there's I was gonna say there's horrible wrecks, all that you hear about like guys getting killed because the boondust is so bad and a vehicle stops.

Speaker 1: 36:32

Not only that, we have 30 trucks going north and then you have tanks or other trucks coming south. Oh, so your first truck see each other like hey, what's up, dude? And then all of a sudden, 10 trucks in or 20 trucks in. It was so bad, I remember we couldn't see our hood.

Speaker 2: 36:48

Oh for sure.

Speaker 1: 36:49

It was so sandy, and I'm looking out of the side of the truck to see the tire marks in the road to be like, dude, pull a little right. We had a few guys get head-on collisions, I believe it for sure, and we were were driving the 818s and they also had those hats, those ones that drove the bradley's, like those huge, those massive cabs that fit like seven dudes, yeah, like those were coming oncoming to us like we don't stand a chance no, so we did missions every day.

Speaker 2: 37:17

What was? What did your missions consist of?

Speaker 1: 37:19

so basically, we'd fill up our fuel on our base. People would bring it north, put it in the bladders. We would fill up and then go north. We'd go through the sunni triangle. We'd go east. We'd go west, around baghdad, not really in. We'd go north of baghdad.

Speaker 2: 37:36

We went to every base we went to you got to experience iraq on a whole different level. Oh yeah, I feel that most people like for like. For us we're we're operating out of either a fob or a little mini base, yeah, but that was it for the weeks, months we were there then before moving. You're bouncing all over the, I guess, regions. You're not doing the whole country, but so you got to see a lot of different perspectives on how people were living.

Speaker 1: 38:04

Oh yeah, it was, it was wild, it was like some bases at nothing.

Speaker 2: 38:08

I remember the worst bases.

Speaker 1: 38:11

Uh, I think it was Alhilla. I want to say Mongolians might've been a coalition base. It was super small Mongolians. It was weird Like these guys had that AKs but they were like five, five, six. Okay.

Speaker 1: 38:26

So like NATO, I guess I don't know and like I get a picture with us with AKs, like we were at the, we had a Humvee, a pickup truck style Humvee, with bench seats, plywood on the roof, mre boxes and then a ratchet strap, and then I was a saw gunnerner so I'd sit on a mre box upright and that would be my, that'd be our gun truck. So we'd have three gun trucks. Gun trucks, platoon leaders would be in those first, second, third platoon. First platoon would run the mission. The lt and the gun truck would be in one humvee. Then the other two guys would, we'd bound or whatever. Iraqis would drive in our convo, like in between our convoys of fuel trucks, oh for sure, and we'd like point guns at them like beat it. You know there was no 300 meter bubble, like we had no five.

Speaker 1: 39:14

The ieds weren't a thing yeah it was more pop shots um booby traps of, like they were putting, you know piano wire across. So guys are in turrets. I remember that was a thing, piano wire yeah and then there was um. You know, they were using washing machine timers with like very primitive, primitive, yeah, the early days, and this is where it's grenade with an elastic. Put it in gasoline until it eats. Eats away at the elastic to release the spoon.

Speaker 2: 39:48

So you got to experience pre-IED days, yeah, which was obviously you guys being in no armored vehicles and softbacks and stuff, so the roads were probably way less stressful. Because you're not thinking we're getting shot at.

Speaker 1: 40:02

We're just thinking about getting shot at or may. Yeah, they I think the only ideas were like landmines, that, yep, they were figuring out burying a road somewhere. But you know, a lot of the roads we were traveled on were pretty. I mean, it was they were busy, yeah, and then there were some times we'd break down like they were busy, yeah, and then there were some times we'd break down like 18 wheelers we had we would drive, we'd get a flat tire. You'd feel it like all right, keep going, get two flat tires, like all right, yeah, we could. Sometimes we keep, I think two we would stop. Sometimes we had two and we're just like dude, keep driving, like who cares really. But one time me and my buddy broke down. We're in the middle of nowhere and we're the maintenance vehicle. They kept going.

Speaker 1: 40:49

Yeah, we're in the middle of like like in the movie, it's like desert, nothing yeah we're sitting under the truck because it's about 130 degrees and then this little fat iraqi kid walks up wearing like a cartman t-shirt, like bro, that's hilarious, like where did you come from? And then other iraqis keep showing up and you know, this is a little more not southern iraq, but like south of the sunni triangle so like they soldiers get food and water and money, so they're just like hanging out yeah and uh like.

Speaker 2: 41:24

However, long later, maybe 40 minutes, the guys come back and we fix that truck and keep going that was one thing that always fascinated me about iraq was you could be in the middle of nowhere, driving for hours. Stop for whatever reason, iede, vehicle goes down, whatever it may be, and these kids would just pop up out of nowhere mr, mr water, mr mr and he'd be like where the fuck?

Speaker 2: 41:48

like where do these kids? It's flat, it's not. Like you're in terrain where you can't see for miles, like you could literally watch a vehicle drive for miles, yeah, and also there's just this kid, and then this little girl shows up, and then another little boy and you're looking around like where it always reminded me of um, like the mad max, the original, oh yeah where the kid just like comes crawling out like a pile of like rebel and here he is. It's like where the these kids just spawn out of nowhere. Do you give them a case of water and some mres?

Speaker 2: 42:17

they'd be the happiest run off, did this, so they just pick a direction and run. You're like where are these kids going?

Speaker 1: 42:23

I think. Well, I'll hill it back to the base. I think it was the smallest base that we stayed at okay I remember sleeping on the. Usually I'd sleep on the roof of the humvee or the hood and then, um, I remember like the tracer rounds just like going, going over like green tracers, and I'm laying there like must be a wedding or something.

Speaker 1: 42:45

Yeah, and shoot to the sky for any reason and you know, some other bases in uh 0506 were a little more like we were there in the wet season. Okay, and we're northern not uh, alice, sorry, anaconda. Okay.

Speaker 1: 43:02

So north of Baghdad and some of these bases were you need to go down these roads with either a tank or an Apache gunship? That's how bad they were, really yeah. So it felt pretty cool. I was a .50 Cal gunner. The second deployment, e5. My buddy, ducla, was a driver and then we had Selye as our TC and we just always had. I was always gunning, ducla was always driving, sully was always TC. We're like that's.

Speaker 2: 43:32

That's cool when you can get a groove like that yeah, of some buddies, yeah, so, um, it was cool.

Speaker 1: 43:38

I had nogs on looking up started early in the morning. I look up and I see this apache gunship. I'm like this is awesome. I'm like I want to see that thing get to work.

Speaker 1: 43:49

You feel invincible yeah, because I heard a week before that or a few weeks before that, they had m1 abrams tanks and they were getting shot at by one of the houses. It's super, I mean it kind of reminded me like seeing blackhawk down the style of houses, um, and they were going through and they were getting shot at by a house and the m1 just laid into one like gone and they're like oh, that's where we're going next week there's nothing cooler than watching the abrams put a main gun through someone's front door and dude.

Speaker 2: 44:19

The first time I ever was standing not next to like parallel with the tank, but we were slightly behind it and they let a main round off in it. I, I swear, and there's. I should ask my. I have had one of my best friends on a couple times. He's a tanker I should have. I swear to god. When that main gun went off, it sucked the air out of my lungs. Like probably you couldn't breathe, you just froze. It was so powerful you couldn't hear anything. You just you're trying to like regroup of what just happened. And then you're like hold everybody, you turn around everybody behind, just like you know. It's like like just ringing, and then you go to the va. Now they're like do you have tendonitis?

Speaker 2: 45:02

and it's like yeah, standing next to him, abrams, when the main gun sucked the soul out of my body, I remember the second deployment.

Speaker 1: 45:09

We were like on mobile or one of those roads on Anbar province and I was in the gun and one went off. It was far away and I thought IED went off. I look, and the thing was probably half mile away. I was like holy crap dude.

Speaker 2: 45:30

Yeah, bro, it's badass. It's even cool watching because we got to do a lot, because I was a tracker, so we're like the little brothers to Abrams. I hate, I had to admit that, but we did some training with them and, dude, they were shooting just flat that. But um, we did some training with them and, dude, they were shooting just flat and you can watch that round like the dust trail.

Speaker 1: 45:49

Oh yeah, suck the dirt behind it.

Speaker 2: 45:51

It was, it was so badass. But yeah, dude, there's nothing. There's nothing cooler, I think, on the ground on in a combat zone, than an abrams tank. Yeah, they're pretty legit, far advanced. So you're dealing with two different styles of war. Because you got to go in the early days much, I don't want to say relax, like complacency wise, but gear wise, you have no armor yeah, nobody figured, nobody gave us shit.

Speaker 1: 46:15

Like it was so hot it got. It got up to 140 degrees. We had vietnam style flak jackets we were down to like the brown t-shirts. They're like, yeah, you can wear t-shirts whatever. And then we'd get on base, we'd throw them on. Um and second deployment actually, yeah, like our first deployment, we had a soft Humvee, we had soft doors. We traded our doors for MREs. At one point, like early on, we were down to like one MRE a day, two bottles of water, one to drink, one to shave, and personal hygiene. So it'd be like brush your teeth and then cut the top shave Cause I get to shave every day or like-.

Speaker 2: 46:52

You're one of those, yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:54

And then it you know it was. It was crazy. We use our showers were a decon station for-.

Speaker 2: 47:00

For chemicals.

Speaker 1: 47:00

Chemical tech, so like that's how it started, and then fast forward, um, go home like volunteer for the second deployment, which is instead of three, three, two, five getting deployed again. They activated the 220th out of new hampshire, so it's just kind of like a rotation of units, and then they added on guys to get the numbers up. So then we deployed out of indiana two months pre-mode, kind of the same thing. Ieds were a thing. So we're going through all that training, yep, and then we go to kuwait again and then go to al-assad. Okay, sorry, anaconda okay we did.

Speaker 1: 47:44

First platoon was gun trucks, second and third were line hall. Did that for a couple months and then we got attached to 377 field artillery active duty guys out of fort bragg. So we roll in and they're like who are these reserve truck drivers?

Speaker 2: 48:01

like gross for people listening. Active duty, yeah, and especially in country. Active duty hate, oh yeah. Reservists, yeah, and there's good reasons. There's I, I. You can justify most of the reasons why. There's just a difference because, you're because an active duty you, you're living it every single day. Then you see these reserve like for us, you see the weekend a month, two weeks a year like water boy.

Speaker 2: 48:30

Most of them aren't in shape. They're all different ages, all different backgrounds and they're just fucked Like. Everything is wrong the way they set up their gears, wrong the way that they're every. So you knit, you start knitting.

Speaker 1: 48:42

You're a fucking reserve is wrong the way that they're every so you nip, you start knitting.

Speaker 2: 48:45

Your fucking reserve is the reservist or you're a get ready, get ready. So so, from your point of view now you're one of them trying to deal with these guys? Was there any kickback or do you guys see?

Speaker 1: 48:55

any. Yeah, they hated us at first, like they're just, you know, total pomp. You know they're younger, active duty cannon cockers like these are young dudes.

Speaker 1: 49:04

And then we got guys yeah, and then we have we got guys who are like joined in the 80s and they're there. But these guys are rock stars, yeah, because they know how to run convoys. These guys are plum plumbers, welders, electricians. So, like our second deployment, we rolled into our base, me and my buddy Ducla. The company was leaving, we had trailers, so it was two men rooms, three per trailer, and we bought a satellite off of this other company that was leaving, like 300 bucks. We bought the satellite dish Really. Then we had a civilian come and then he pointed it and me and dukla we had the. I mean he did all the tech stuff. We ran cat six cables to every trailer. We're like, hey, 40 bucks a month for internet you guys are slinging internet in iraq, yeah it's genius.

Speaker 1: 50:02

So then when, dude, so we had a net zero account.

Speaker 2: 50:06

And then this only happens because of the reservists, because you guys had so many different people. Okay, this. This is why we don't like the reservists.

Speaker 1: 50:13

Yeah, guys, you guys can outsmart us, okay so instead of going and waiting in line at the at&t trailer to call home every once a week or whatever, internet we had internet, so we had, we had this station. We ran all the cat six cables to different trailers, okay, and then like end of the month we'd unplug it and then dudes would be like hey, no internet, like 40 bucks, homie, 40 bucks, plug it back in.

Speaker 1: 50:37

That is genius so we we had a net zero number, duke, I was from Rhode Island, so we set up a 401 number. Okay, so like my family would call, his wife would call. I think we even set up like an answering machine so people would call us and we'd call. We'd have the computer headset, we'd call home. But then, like the home readiness, like our families would go to the meetings and they'd be like, yeah, I haven't talked to my husband in two weeks. They are calling us like every night damn, that's a luxury.

Speaker 1: 51:11

Yeah, that is a luxury don't work harder, work smarter a hundred percent, so that, yeah, we do that and then we do our contract missions, go meet up with the brag guys. They hate us. And then all of a sudden we go on a mission with them and they're like, oh, these guys know how to do missions, because we did missions in 03. We're already doing missions. The only thing we lacked was maybe some of the calm stuff and a little more. They were starting to do more of like the I would call it like a felony motor vehicle stop, kind of like if we came into that they're doing drills like that on base because things have changed from your first deployment to now.

Speaker 1: 51:50

Oh yeah, so yeah, um, yeah, we even brought our steel, like from my dad's company. We brought these plates of steel and we brought them because in 03 we didn't have armor. And then we hear about these ieds. So we put them in our connex, shipped them over with our gear and then started. I started, uh, through bolting them through our turrets, because we had hillbilly armor for the turrets yeah and then, yeah, so we just adapted and kind of made it work it's, it's.

Speaker 2: 52:20

It's good to hear that the army, even the reserve, have to do this, because I feel like this is just marine shit. So it makes me feel good, yeah, that you guys aren't a hundred percent spoiled on everything because you know, as a, we always look at the army like spoiled asses. They get all the best gear. They don't even know how to use it. Yeah, we use it better than them and look at it like look at this brand new huh they got a whole fleet.

Speaker 2: 52:42

We're over here piecing things together, so it's nice to hear that you guys actually went through some struggles before the GWAP money kicked in and then you guys got everything, yeah, so we started getting our Humvees from like Bosnia, I think, because they were sitting there for years.

Speaker 1: 52:56

Yeah, they were pretty decent Humvees. And then we had LMTVs. So same thing we're in a five-ton truck.

Speaker 1: 53:03

Yep and then we had LMTV. So same thing. We're in a five-ton truck, yep, and I remember one time the road was like Swiss cheese whatever road, it was Anbar province, like desert, and I'm in the 50 Cal and there was a berm on the side of the road. So instead of driving on the road with all the potholes and IEDs, we drove off the road between the berm, maybe 100 yards off the road and it was a berm, so drivers and tc couldn't see over the berm. But I could, being in the turret because lmtv are pretty high, similar to a seven ton, and I look over and I see this looks like a grave, like dug in the ground, and then I keep going like undug grave. I'm like, oh, it's kind of weird. Then we keep driving and I see a what I think is a 155 round like out, okay, call it in.

Speaker 1: 53:56

And we had a staff sergeant running the convoy and at that time ieds were all day, every day, okay. So they said, all right, you're gonna have to wait anywhere from 6 to 13 hours for eod to come. Facts like, okay, if you're like hey, sergeant age, uh, can you shoot it? I'm like I had a 50 cal. I was like, excuse me like, uh, yeah, so I, duke law, I'm like, dude, drive away from it a little bit, let's back up, let's back up.

Speaker 1: 54:28

It's like whole convo is kind of off to the side and I'm in the 50 gallon, it's a butterfly handle with the trigger and I'm in the tar. You know, you're standing like this and then all of a sudden I'm like getting low, he's getting on the iron sights and, uh, I just do like you know the one finger, I'm like, and it shakes the whole truck. Yep, put a couple rounds, a couple more rounds. All of a sudden it spins. I'm like, all right, I hit it. I'm like, oh, let me hit it again. Spins, hit it nothing, I mean nothing, like all right. So we, like idiots, we all drive up to it like let's go check it out, let's go check it out, dude, like we just shot a bomb.

Speaker 1: 55:12

Dudes in the desert, yeah. So then we go in and I do one of these. I'm like, yeah, I'm going in the cab for this one yeah and one of the other active duty dudes had the uh 60 in a humvee and he's. I mean we are 20 yards from this thing oh god like and then he just boom thing goes off. No, yeah, so we're like all right, we don't have to call eod, let's get out of here. It went off it detonated.

Speaker 2: 55:42

Yeah, oh my, you guys like asking for that one yeah and I'm like all right, let's get out of here. You didn't have any mark 19s in your on your at that at that time?

Speaker 1: 55:52

no, because right after that they flew us a small crew to to anaconda, where we just were, and we went to asv training. So the asvs were tanks with four wheels yeah badass truck, awesome.

Speaker 1: 56:08

So I had a mark night the 40 mic on the left with all the rounds in the turret, 50 cal on the right and then a big night vision optic and I'd sit in this little seat in this cage and it'd be hydraulics left and right and then elevation was like a hand crank and I have, like that fighter pilot, like flip up the switch and hit the trigger a little red, yeah, flip yeah that was awesome and I felt like a king in that thing.

Speaker 1: 56:32

It was, air conditioning was cranking, we had our mp3 players hooked up to the comm so we could listen to music on the on the convoy and uh, yeah, that was cool. We just got lucky. A lot like we, we were vigilant, so a lot of the times I was either a front gunner or a rear gunner and we were always in the turrets guns up. We would either pass like there was a lot of convoys doing missions because we did military, would have the roads between certain times, yeah, and sometimes we'd be the first ones out, which we'd never wanted to do.

Speaker 1: 57:05

We'd be like, yeah, let the marines go first, they'll find all the ideas and then, uh, so we're doing missions, then we get a breakdown and then a convoy behind us passes us and then they get hit. Or we're waiting and like we're in the turrets and I'm like all right, checking with binos, checking scopes and everything at a distance, the village, and then we leave and the convoy behind us gets hit because they're like guns flying in the wind, sitting in the truck like idiots. So I think being being vigilant helps for sure um, well, they're watching too.

Speaker 2: 57:40

That's what a lot of guys, because we always had giant signs. Complacency kills like it's yeah, out of every base you'd roll out. I'm sure you saw them. Yeah, but it's true. I mean, then they're the enemy's watching everything. Yeah, even though we can't see anybody. It proves like these little kids are just popping out of nowhere so they can tell the difference of units who are on it or the guys where there's nobody in a turret going by. Guns are pointed to the sky, no rear security, and they start noting that and they're like, yeah, they make a call ahead.

Speaker 1: 58:10

And I mean yeah they're waiting, so yeah, so we got for the amount of missions we did. We got, very lucky, a lot of pop shots. Uh, one of the missions I was on, I was actually on the sat phone not sat phone but on the computer calling my buddy, eric, who's was in the Marines, who's in Fallujah, and I was trying to get up to like meet him, cause I feel like he's not having a good time.

Speaker 2: 58:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 58:31

And, uh, it ended up. I go to my company commander I'm like hey, could I go to Fallujah for R and R? He's like no, you cannot go to Fallujah.

Speaker 2: 58:42

Fallujah's popping at this point. Yeah, he's like no, you cannot go to fallujah popping at this point.

Speaker 1: 58:47

Yeah, that was later on green zone fallujah. Yeah, so I, they said they canceled my leave to go home because at that time guys were going home for like 10 days or something and then coming home, which guys were changed at. When they would go home, they would come back. They were not the same soldier like how good or bad bad? Like, didn't want like once they get that taste of how life is. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 59:06

Like they're just like what am I doing? Like you just see it in their face For sure. Like you get that deployment face of like smile with your buddies and you're all like everyone's got a fake ass smile. Yeah. Because you're in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Speaker 2: 59:16

You're pretty home, like nobody cares.

Speaker 1: 59:19

Yeah, dudes that go home. It just like rewires their brain to be like what are we doing?

Speaker 2: 59:25

for because then you're seeing the news probably side of things, yeah, you get a taste of freedom. So we don't get this option in the marine corps. Yeah, you're just there. Yeah, I'm a deployment and that's better okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 59:39

This is an interesting conversation because we look at it like, damn, they get to go home, but then at the same time, hearing this like you, get that little taste of freedom it changes you and then you're like I don't want to do, not guys not wanting to do missions, but mentally they don't want to do missions, which is dangerous 100.

Speaker 1: 59:57

So I, they sent me, they canceled my. The headquarters knew that like we are times, we're getting messed up, so they put their time in. So I kind of got screwed.

Speaker 2: 1:00:06

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:00:06

Because I wasn't in headquarters and knew so. They sent me to Qatar instead for like three days.

Speaker 2: 1:00:13

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:00:13

So me and this other staff sergeant went down and you get like a ticket a day for a beer. There's a Chili's with a pool.

Speaker 2: 1:00:22

I feel that's just enough, though it's perfect. I agree with. That's just enough, though it's perfect. I that's what it needs to be with that.

Speaker 1: 1:00:26

That's how you need to decompress somewhere. But stay in theater. Stay in theater, still in the mindset. Um, and then there was sandstorms, so we had to stay. We stayed like five days or something, which was like all right, cool.

Speaker 1: 1:00:41

But then you're like our boys are going on missions, like I should be on missions, so the mission that I was would have been on. We used to have these things you call them a rat truck, so you'd be up like a mile ahead in the truck and then the rest of the convoy would be behind you. And the rat truck was, if there was a bomb, like you'd be the first to get it and you're a mile out, or you would spot an ied, call it in and everyone else would be back a safe distance, because at that time they were using the shape charges. Okay, so they were putting the rhinos on the front of the humvees with in the ammo box. Did you see those? Yeah, yeah. So basically it was like a heat signature in the ammo box and then they have a chain dragging and then like a piece of something kind of flopping in the wind okay.

Speaker 1: 1:01:23

So that way, when, when trucks would go by like an infrared signal or whatever, the shape charge would go into the door, there'd be a copper charge and it would blast through everything and catch a vehicle on fire pretty much the.

Speaker 2: 1:01:38

It would be that plate of copper would turn to a cone yeah pierce any steel correct is that way and it would just melt.

Speaker 2: 1:01:46

I remember seeing some of the doors oh yeah, of humvees that got hit with that and you're, you're, I mean dude, you're like knocking on that steel door but it looks like soft butter, yeah, and you shot like a, a slug into it and it just melted those door. I remember seeing chunks where you can see it just literally the only way I would describe it is hot butter, with like shooting a pellet into it and it would just mold yeah and melt everything.

Speaker 1: 1:02:15

It was scary looking at some of that stuff yeah, and the trucks coming like you see the trucks coming in on the base and you're just doing convoys. You're like I don't want to see that yeah so the point of that would to be the rhino that knows out front would send it in front of the vehicle instead of and then they started turning it. It's like, whatever you know, everyone's adapting um things were interesting.

Speaker 1: 1:02:37

Yeah, second one, yeah, that's so oh so the guys, the mission I probably would have been on, the 377 guys were the front truck outside of Fallujah, two 155 rounds with fuel as accelerant. The front truck gets hit with an LMTV and the cab is up-armored and then it's a cargo truck, so it's not there's so much weight on the front. The cab blows off of the truck, nobody gets hurt I think one dude, the gunner, broke his pinky really and then everyone gets sent to fallujah for like a day or two because qrf we're trying to go there.

Speaker 1: 1:03:14

I was like dude I could have been to fallujah homie, you miss your buddy. Yeah, that's funny. I mean, even if I, you know, would have seen him. Um, it was crazy on another base on cop cop north, I think it was on the syrian border I go into. This was the smallest base that I that we were at yeah it was under the marines.

Speaker 1: 1:03:34

Um, so we were there for like 30 days like literally bringing water every day. Water and food you know supplies. And I go to the weightlifting tent. See these two dudes like hey, I'm from the stri, I'm from the Striker Brigade in Alaska. And in the back of my head, one of my buddies, captain Bulio, went to the Striker Brigade. I used to work with him at the Palladium, a nightclub in Worcester.

Speaker 2: 1:03:55

Really.

Speaker 1: 1:03:56

He was a few years older because I used to use his military ID to get into bars. It was like a black and white picture of a white dude with a crew cut. Yeah, everyone looks the same. And I told those guys ago you guys know, captain bulio, he goes. Oh yeah, he's in the. He's the night ops guy. He's in the tent next door.

Speaker 2: 1:04:11

I'm like no kidding really yeah, so we hung out for like three weeks every night smoking dried out cubans you're in iraq and you got to see a guy you used to work with and use his id to buy beer.

Speaker 1: 1:04:23

Yeah, like, like. What are the chances Like?

Speaker 2: 1:04:26

dude, small world, extremely small world. Okay, so you do your time overseas, you get back, you get out. How long were you back before you joined the police force?

Speaker 1: 1:04:39

So it was probably a couple months and then December. So I got back in the summer okay, worked for my dad for a little bit to save up, because it's always you never. It's like it's like the military to be a cop. They're like, hey, you're gonna take the test, all right, now you're gonna take the mental, the health test, you're gonna take the physical test, so it's you're never locked in, like it's always you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:05:04

So you don't get accepted to academy.

Speaker 1: 1:05:06

You're doing everything through that period and it's still like, not a in my mind. I'm like it's unless you have orders, or you're day one day or day zero, whatever, like you're not in yet, you're not in yet, okay, so it was a waiting process, waiting process, all right, I'm in. We had a small academy of 14 guys, guys and girls. Uh, because usually worcester police have their own academy, own academy staff, um, everything, driving, shooting, instruction. That's all through worcester and it's a six-month academy. That's an eternity.

Speaker 2: 1:05:39

I feel like it is okay, it's it's uh, how many weeks is six months? So I think here's is 18, eight weeks, 18 weeks for the academy here, yeah, for meridian.

Speaker 1: 1:05:52

So we we exceed the state minimum for hours for like domestic, okay, for shooting, for driving training, for all that stuff so they're putting out a better quality police officer yeah if you're putting in more hours in the state required yeah, okay, yeah, so, and a lot of the things you see, like some of the escalation of force stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:06:15

I know I'm jumping ahead, but some of that stuff that happens is cops who are less trained for sure. So if you instill confidence in the academy with hands-on stuff, then they're not gonna like if someone hurries up to get to their taser and they lose, that bad guy has a taser, then could that be lethal force, with you incapacitated, I'd say so, maybe so. Or a baton to taser, to gun or whatever. Like it's all these tools they keep giving us. Now there's this new stupid thing called the boa wrap, a bola wrap, or whatever they shoot it at you and it like goes around like dave and goliath.

Speaker 1: 1:06:55

I'm like so now it's just another tool for somebody who's not confident in their ability to rely on, and if it doesn't work, then it's up here. You know you keep stepping up that escalation.

Speaker 2: 1:07:08

I'm not throwing shade on cops, just going to state that before I open my mouth, I feel the majority of the incidences that we see on social granted, 90% of the time we're not getting the whole video yeah, I could take that into consideration. But when a physical altercation pops off, I want to say 75% or more do not legitimately know how to handle a physical altercation and this goes for men and women, because I have a very strong opinion about women being street cops.

Speaker 1: 1:07:46

Yeah, most men don't know how to fight yeah, and, and that's the thing of like, they show us this stuff that doesn't really apply in the academy like we do.

Speaker 2: 1:07:58

Like what? What's not applying in the academy that you?

Speaker 1: 1:08:01

they showed I've seen some people use it like an armbar takedown that it's like you come up from behind at a 45 degree angle. That's how you start doing it, and I've seen other guys do it where you grab somebody and yeah there's ways of doing it, ways of doing it, but every cop should be doing jujitsu, not sport jujitsu, it should be not a competitive jujitsu there's been so many times that I have put myself on top of a subject and made them incapable of getting away.

Speaker 1: 1:08:32

Yes, just by being in a position. Yes, so I went to 05, actually, sorry, before my second deployment I ended up going to combatives instructor school with the army five day training, jujitsu, eight hours a day, five days a week, and I was dabbling in jujitsu a little bit and I'm still like a shitty, white, spazzy, white belt Like I. Just I do it cause I know I need to do it. It's great for mental health, it's great to you know, it's great to learn. Show my kids. And right when I got back from that training literally I was working driving the paddy wagon. Dude gets out he slipped his cuffs to the front and it was an OUI case. Which OUI Operating under the influence.

Speaker 1: 1:09:19

Okay, sorry, I probably shouldn't have known that so he came back from the hospital he slipped his cuffs and I opened the door and we had a sally point like a garage door that was open. It's supposed to be closed every time, but you know, sometimes you just don't follow the policy. I'm like, all right, it's just a dude who's gonna get out and usually escort him in, he just runs towards, like so you open the door towards belmont street.

Speaker 1: 1:09:44

Okay, and it's like three o'clock in the afternoon. I just start running, I'm in my uniform and I'm like I got to wait to tackle him because I don't want to rip my $90 pants. Okay, so he gets to the grass section right before the sidewalk and people are like at the stoplight. It's super busy right at the police station. Tackle him, get inside control, start doing a couple knees into his ribs and just lay there and I just yell for the other guy. I'm like, hey, lee, and I just waited and the dude had nothing, yeah so I mean, there's so many proven tactics, yeah, how to to?

Speaker 2: 1:10:22

just at the same time, it's really hard to fight somebody without hurting somebody, like that is when you're just trying to detain somebody in there, somebody who doesn't want to be detained and that's the majority of cases in police work is I've.

Speaker 1: 1:10:37

I've gone hands on a lot of times, okay, and there has been very few times where the dude wants to throw fists. Really, a lot of the times it's they just want to get away and they're actively resistant, which means that limits your use of force options as well, okay. So you know, like when I see dudes tase people when they're running away and then they do the NMI, the body stiffens up and they like in our state that's, that's a no-go because you're actively resistant.

Speaker 2: 1:11:10

So so, okay, so the level of force, okay, I mean every state could be different, but like we don't but I feel you guys are pretty liberal when it comes to policing because of who's running, your guys's state, so you agree that if somebody's running, you shouldn't be able to tase them I.

Speaker 1: 1:11:27

I think if somebody's combative you should, you could tase them okay, or fists up like they don't have to throw a fit, you don't. You don't have to wait if you had somebody detained.

Speaker 2: 1:11:35

Just I'm just throwing a scenario. You have somebody, you got him against car, you're about to search him, that dude dips and runs. Yeah, you don't feel a cop has the right to tase at that point. I don't think I.

Speaker 1: 1:11:45

I wouldn't because I like to go hands-on faster than later, so to get my taser out and to have loose clothes and them moving. That's a harder target to hit and you have you're like how many times you run and shoot your taser?

Speaker 1: 1:12:03

never, never how many times you run and shoot? Not a lot, unless you're a competitive shooter. Probably never Run and stop and shoot or slow down and shoot. So, like you're, you have that one window of squeezing that trigger on the taser and X amount of feet, however much line you have on that taser, and then he's already got.

Speaker 1: 1:12:22

Like my instinct from you know playing football, to tackle somebody, somebody to being in the military, to being going through training, is he moves, I move right, like I'm gonna hurry up and try and sprint and get after him and get him out of position of disadvantage so I could. Then guys are too quick to hurry up to the cuffs because look at any youtube video or instagram video of a cop fighting somebody with handcuffs in their hand. You're, you're at a disadvantage with handcuffs, so what people need to do is get them at disadvantage, whether, if they're still fighting, there's no need to hurry up to your cuffs because you're still at a disadvantage when you're taking one arm off yeah and I mean, if you have pinky cuff, if you do, they always train pinky cuff first, because you could still kind of control and do a compliance what do you mean, pinky cuff?

Speaker 2: 1:13:16

so?

Speaker 1: 1:13:16

like, if I have my cuffs like this, and the cuffs are on the bottom and top, a lot of guys go with this because it's easy, right? Oh, so you could punch on a wrist and punch yeah, punch on the pinky, the pinky cuff first. So this one is loose, so you have one wrist here, okay, and then you can kind of use that as compliance. But if somebody is fighting you it's hard.

Speaker 1: 1:13:34

Yeah, the last thing, you have a couple other guys like Worcester is pretty good about having. If you go to a call for service, you're going by yourself, yep. If you're going to a guy with a machete guy with a gun, domestic a fight, whatever 10 guys are going. Okay. Like that's you know.

Speaker 2: 1:13:53

I just back to the tasing thing. I see so many of these videos Granted, we don't know the whole context most of the time I feel as a cop. If I was a cop, I would be tasing every son of a bitch, just especially the ones that are just giving you you're, you have that ability to start pushing. You see, these cops are going back and forth. Yeah, the second somebody puts a hand on me, especially if I have to be tased to carry that thing.

Speaker 1: 1:14:18

I am burning everybody, which is ridiculous too, because you don't have to be shot to carry your gun with your vest on. So I think that's just like a hazing thing, like, oh, you gotta get I get the spraying thing, you gotta know, okay, how to get sprayed. I, once I get on the SWAT team, swat team was the first guys to get tasers and I told my dt guy I go, am I getting tased? And um, he was like I'm not tasing you, bro, I don't know what's going to come out because I have plates in my head. Oh, he's like dude, I'm not tasing you. Did you get that? Have to get tased?

Speaker 2: 1:14:53

yeah, I didn't get tased you, mother, I would have played that too, I got this. I got this shit. It's gonna might fry me 100 getting tased sucks. I've rode the lightning. Oh yeah, it was horrible. A cop. A cop could pull a gun on me and I'd be like like, yeah, you pull a taser on me.

Speaker 1: 1:15:15

Oh my god some guys that have that had that happen. They see the taser and they're like nope 100. But I see a lot of cops and scenarios, um, scenarios so like once getting on the SWAT team it was we would go to all the call. You know the gather, the gun gather, the knife fight, call whatever with a weapon, and we would go. And then we'd be outside of a building and I kind of learned it from senior guys too If you were a patrolman, there was another patrolman, then another swat guy.

Speaker 1: 1:15:47

I'd be like all right, um, you have the shield, you go lethal, I'll go lethal, you go less lethal and you go apprehension. So like you talk it through the guys at first, like you tell the guys even if it's your call. So, for example, if there's a call on like if I get dispatched to a call and you come and you're my backup, and she come and she's my backup, like it's my call, yeah, so I could be like, should the cop should say, hey, if this is a knife call, I'll go lethal, you go less lethal, you go apprehension. And then sometimes you see on these videos everyone's got their taser out for a guy with a knife and you're like dude, that's a lethal call all day. Yep, um, because the taser, just when it works.

Speaker 2: 1:16:31

It's great when it doesn't it doesn't work but ain't guaranteed.

Speaker 1: 1:16:34

They can't be behind the wheel, they can't be around certain gases. They can't be around like a gas station or somewhere high yeah yeah, and if someone's running, like you're not supposed to catch somebody when you tase them, but if somebody's running and they get nmi and they hit their head really freaking hard, oh for sure you know I mean, I get it at the same time, though.

Speaker 2: 1:16:56

If I'm getting tased, I'm tasing everybody. I'm one of those. I would be one of those cops where I'm, but I mean, you see some of them, and they hit their heads off the concrete, or the asphalt or they fall flat on their face. It's like, bro, did you just knock this dude's teeth out? I get it I see it, but I would be. I would 100 be one of those cops yeah that's why I'm not a cop so well.

Speaker 2: 1:17:17

You're near boston. He did 18 years. You were there for some riots, yeah okay, how, what's it so?

Speaker 1: 1:17:26

oh, you want to go to 2012 first. Let's do whatever you want, buddy. So 2012,. I was on patrol and I had a pain in my groin and I thought it was a hernia. Okay, because back in 03, when I was in that winter tent full of soldiers doing missions every day, carrying the saw gun, jumping in and out of the humvee and like stopping traffic, and woke up in the middle of the night felt a tear in my well apparently it's my intestine dropped to my groin, had an angronal hernia, okay, excruciating pain. I kept my mouth shut in the tent. Pain went away. I'm like all right, I'm good, cool, healed. Yeah, good to go. Let's do another 10 months in country, so dumb men are so dumb yeah yeah, so fast forward to 2012.

Speaker 1: 1:18:13

I was working out a lot, thought I had a hernia go to the doctors. They do an ultrasound on my testicle because that's where the pain was, and they said, oh well, looks like you have a growth like. By growth do you mean tumor? Because that's all I'm like growth tumor like what?

Speaker 1: 1:18:35

yeah he said yeah, it's probably testicular cancer you're gonna have to. This was a friday, really. It's come back next week, we'll do surgery outpatient, really. And I'm sitting there like hit a brick wall. I'm like what? Like dude, you got, oh, you got cancer right now, like it came for hernia or something.

Speaker 2: 1:18:58

You go in for potential hernia and now you're leaving knowing that you have to testicular I can't even say the word right now testicular cancer I don't know why I word right now Testicular cancer.

Speaker 2: 1:19:09

I don't know why I can't say it. So you go in thinking that you're having a hernia and then you get told you have testicular cancer yeah, I don't know why I can't say that word right now. So that's a shock to you. Yeah, okay. So how are you processing this? Because I feel obviously cancer is a very to you. Yeah, okay. So how are you processing this? Because I feel obviously cancer is a very scary word, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:19:31

So testicular cancer. Doing some research after it's prominent between 16 and 30 years old for men.

Speaker 2: 1:19:38

Really yeah, so I did not know those ages.

Speaker 1: 1:19:42

Yep, I was 29 at the time, which I was like almost made it. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:19:48

I called my parents and then we met for lunch. My dad's like call your mom, you know. And we met up and uh went through. You know like hey, it's going to be an outpatient surgery. And I asked the doctor. I said so you're gonna take the testicle out, take the tumor off and then put it back in? He said no, we take the whole thing. So here I am like, all right, I'm gonna have one. Can I have a fake one put in? He said no, we take the whole thing. So here.

Speaker 1: 1:20:08

I am like all right, I'm gonna have one. Can I have a fake one put in? He goes, yeah, you can have a fake one. I'm like all right, cool, so that you know. That settles one hurdle. Does it feel weird? Not really, no, it doesn't. I mean, when you're, I mean it's like it's. It's a thing like you can feel the skin but then, like the ball, like you put freaking vice grips on it, it's not gonna hurt.

Speaker 2: 1:20:31

Yeah, no shit, huh yeah, I didn't have to ask. I don't know, I don't know anybody with fake nuts, so yeah, it was a fun.

Speaker 1: 1:20:37

One time we're leaving roll call on my buddy. We're in the elevator. He's like dude, it was after it happened. He's like dude, what does it feel like? Like I'm like, yeah, you just like touch it. It like touches it and elevated door opens. Or like don't worry about it, it's not gay if it's fake.

Speaker 2: 1:20:52

I wasn't going to ask if it became a thing, but I knew it, I knew it, of course.

Speaker 1: 1:20:56

A bunch of cops or military guys in a room, a hundred percent someone's poking it yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:21:00

Yeah, so it was weird that I asked If you've been in the military. Yep.

Speaker 1: 1:21:06

It's not gay in Iraq. No. No.

Speaker 1: 1:21:08

So the yeah, so I have outpatient surgery. Okay, heal up. It wasn't crazy painful A couple days at home. Then a few months went by. I had some more scans. Then they found some swollen lymph nodes. You have lymph nodes all over your body. I had lymph towards the back, I guess like kidney area. Those are swollen enough where they could have enlarged to be a teratoma, which a teratoma is, I guess it's like a tumor, but it's not cancerous. It's a growth of hair, teeth, nails, like absolutely disgusting. And that growth could be, you know, it could stay three mil or whatever size it was, or it could grow to be the size of freaking football I've seen these in like the wife watches crazy amount of shit, unreal terrifying.

Speaker 2: 1:22:00

Yeah, they're pulling tumors that have grown teeth in them and hair and it looks like some hollywood creature. Yeah, that's how I'd explain. So this is what they're telling you it can grow into, or is it already said it could be?

Speaker 1: 1:22:12

growing into it. Okay, I knew somebody who had the same. He had testicular cancer. Then he opted to not have the surgery and he was fine, but for me I was like, dude, get this thing out of me yeah just to be safe. Yep. So they cut me open from waistline to the sternum. They take all your guts, put them on your chest. It's like a human canoe. Then they take the lymph nodes out Really and put everything back in.

Speaker 2: 1:22:40

This is a very invasive surgery.

Speaker 1: 1:22:44

Yeah, that was a tough recovery Super bloated, because once your intestines hit air they like bloat, I guess, the gases. So I there's a picture of me where I look like pregnant, almost in a hospital bed. I was just hooked up to morphine where just every whatever five minutes or ten minutes I could hit that button and just like no. I was in the hospital for a week after that and it was a six month recovery, damn yeah, I mean it was like every oh, yeah, um.

Speaker 1: 1:23:18

So then, six months strict diet, no more than six grams of fat a day. Five grams of fat a day, like I'd look at the menu and have anxiety, like what can I eat? I'm like all right, can you cook this and like not fry it? No butter, like crazy. Yeah, your whole life changed, yeah, okay. So then I was cancer free. Six months later, swat tryouts are going on, which is a two day tryout. They do it every like three years or so, depending on numbers. Pushing the sled, doing sprints, I cough up some blood. I'm like, all right, it's only a little bit of blood, okay. Day two cough up some more blood.

Speaker 2: 1:24:03

Are you feeling anything like tightness, or is it just coughing up blood?

Speaker 1: 1:24:07

Just coughing up blood. I was working out a lot. No, I kind of. I also want to say like mildly sick. This was March in New England, still like cold out, not the best weather, feel kind of crappy, you know what I mean. Like it's you just nobody wants to know they're sick, right. So you're like oh, it's winter, I feel like crap.

Speaker 3: 1:24:29

Oh, I'm coughing up blood like whatever, it's a little bit of blood yeah five days go by.

Speaker 1: 1:24:32

I go to saint vincent's hospital in worcester. I do scans.

Speaker 1: 1:24:37

They said you have six tumors in your chest and lungs damn dude, one pushing on my jugular, one on my stomach, the rest of my lungs and you're really not feeling anything. I was losing weight but I was also working out. But I was like I know everyone. If you've grown up doing athletic stuff or working out, you know your body. I was losing more weight than I would have been if I was lifting weights and running you know what I mean. Like I wasn't eating super clean. I was eating normal but working out a lot. So for me, losing weight for eating normal isn't normal. Yeah, so there's a hint like always know you're normal, like know when you feel good, for sure, right, because when you don't feel good, you just put a check and be like all right, let's keep an eye on this.

Speaker 1: 1:25:27

So now you're in the hospital and they have found you just riddled with yeah, and I didn't know until my mother told me recently, from when I was writing the book she said they told my parents this is beyond us. Like you need to go to Boston. Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:25:43

So Boston Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, mass General, they're like one of the best in the country, if not the world, for cancer research and treatment. So I go to Boston. I meet my oncologist, dr Sweeney, who was amazing, this Australian dude. He looks at my scans and he said let's let the healing begin. So I went on a second opinion. Healing begin. So I went on a second opinion. So if you ever go to the doctors and you want an out of network visit, it's technically not covered so you have to go to your primary care. Say I want an out of network visit to go to Boston. Your primary care puts in a referral. Then you're cleared like for free to go to that specialist. Okay, I went to boston. He said this is stage four cancer and you're not leaving. Damn. He said it would have been considered stage four but because the cancer came back, he's like.

Speaker 1: 1:26:40

He's like we're starting chemo tomorrow really that quick everything's moving yeah, so stayed in the hospital that night, which I didn't plan on. Bought some like mass general sweatpants. You know, like parents go home, gets a bag of stuff, comes back. I was hooked up to chemo eight hours a day, five days a week for five months. What does chemo feel like? I thought it was going to feel like, feel something. Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:27:08

So the first time I had two IVs and they had to change them every four days and I was there for five. So I'd have to get restocked, which after a while my veins started to get flat, oh for sure. So the first time I had chemo, I had a black mark because they like missed the vein a little bit and I felt the pain and I'm like it's chemo, it's supposed to hurt. It's like toxic yeah, hazmat stuff yeah, and they, they were like no, it's not supposed to do that. So I had a mark for like almost a year on my forearm.

Speaker 2: 1:27:38

Really, yeah, um, it's a pretty intense chemical yeah, so I had three chemos.

Speaker 1: 1:27:44

I had cisplatin, bleomycin and another one, so it was three chemos and then another like five bags of like potassium, anti-nausea stuff, like a steroid, all this it just makes you deathly sick, all this stuff. Yeah, I was like 230 pounds towards the end of it. Really.

Speaker 1: 1:28:03

So I'd go in Wednesday, I'd get chemo, then I would have to, I'd have to stay in the hotel. I'm the hotel, the uh hospital and then I'd get it again. Then I'd get it again, and every day they would move it back a couple hours. So sunday I'd be able to leave at like noontime. Then I would go home. Monday I'd feel like the chemo would make me feel like a bad hangover okay, like a real bad hangover so you're not doing anything.

Speaker 1: 1:28:34

Monday monday is just in bed, watch movies like and I was hungry too. I was never nauseous. I'd have a metallic taste in my mouth, hated it. The smell, the smell of like, purell, like the hand sanitizer like, makes me sick and that's coming out of you that? Well, that smell is from, like, the hospital room. Okay, like that. I think that's what it's from, is there?

Speaker 2: 1:28:59

I mean, do you ever have like this toxic? Because you're saying you have a metallic taste? Yeah, do you ever. Did you ever smell yourself?

Speaker 1: 1:29:07

yeah, because this might sound ignorant question, but like it, there is a smell to it and I don't want to scare people, because my mother had breast cancer twice. Now she has cll chronic lymphatic leukemia and I remember she, like, she told me one day it was me, my dad and my mother going to the elevator and we hit it to go down to the um to get some food and she goes well, you're going to start to feel sick and I was. I was so pissed, I was like mom, I'm like if you tell me I'm going to feel sick, then I'm going to feel sick, I go. If you tell me I'm going to feel sick in this elevator, then I'm going to um. And I mean I felt all it was like that's the stuff, life, that's all the other stuff. So I felt bad, like being a dick to my mom. But sorry, trish, but for me, like her, chemo was when we were in like middle school. Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:30:02

So like her chemo was different, like chemo when it started, everyone was throwing up. So like that's what people think, too is some stuff. Everyone's cancer is different.

Speaker 1: 1:30:15

Everyone's treatment is different the way your body reacts to different to chemos are different, for sure. So yeah, I you know I didn't feel great. I never got sick, I got bloated because I think all the water weight 230 pounds. I lost my hair. I was down at one point. I was down to like seven eyebrows oh really, yeah. Um, my hair was like I don't have much hair anyways. But my buddy who went through the same thing with chemo, he said don't cut it too short, because if you're like sleeping on a pillow or laying down, the hair follicles die so they kind of separate and then when you're like laying down, it hurts because your hair is like poking. So I kept it a little longer and then one day I was golfing with my dad and I took my hat off and wiped my head and I just looked down and see hair in my hands is that a surreal moment?

Speaker 2: 1:31:05

yeah, because I know it's. It's a huge deal for women, but I mean as a man, even though we're all balding, especially if you're military law enforcement yeah, still, I mean to be able to wipe. It is. And the reason I ask this question is because I feel having cancer. You're trying to not focus on it and you're just trying to live your life and continue with life, but then all of a sudden you wipe your head and you got a handful of hair and continue with life but then all of a sudden, you wipe your head and you got a handful of hair, does it?

Speaker 1: 1:31:30

like sink in and hit all over again. Yeah, for me it's more like fuck, here we go. But um, yeah, it made me think of all the women that have to do it. Like I don't care about my hair and the scars, like I'm you know. Um, I'm just a dude. Scars are cool, right, like uh, I didn't lose a leg, I'm not wearing my disease. Really, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:31:51

Like I would walk in to get chemo for five days and the nurses are like where's the patient? I'm like right here, like you look great, like I feel like shit. But thank you, but it was never. Like women that have to go through chemo, their hair falls out, they get to wear wigs or not have hair because wigs I know from my mother. When it's 90 degrees, you think someone wants to put a wig on. No, not really. Or walk around completely bald.

Speaker 1: 1:32:21

People look, people are weird. When you get cancer, you think I don't know what do you mean by that. How I think the reactions that people get when, when you're sick, either people think that it's like not think it's contagious, but people, people that you wouldn't think get a little weirded out, like I was around some people that were close and then like never came to the hospital. Yeah, I'm like that's fine. I had a lot of people come visit me in the hospital, but a few people, and I'm like I get it, I don't like going to hospitals, but I think some people act differently and I think people that are listening to this that have that have had cancer and experience that it's a weird.

Speaker 1: 1:33:04

It's weird um people's reactions to things themselves a little bit, yeah, either, because it could be because they're scared of it, it could be because they don't want to get you sick. A lot of reasons it's it's a big I don't know.

Speaker 2: 1:33:18

there are a lot of. I could see every angle, you know, especially if you think you have a cold and obviously going through chemo. Chemo is killing all of your good cells in your body, so you're more prone to be to coming down with a sickness which can lead to a lot of other secondaries which could eventually probably kill somebody it's going through and to have such a weak immune system at the time, so I get it, but it's, it's gotta be tough because you feel super vulnerable and then you start seeing your circle shrinking People aren't around as much.

Speaker 2: 1:33:49

Your circle shrinking, people aren't around as much so I'm sure that weighs on you as well.

Speaker 1: 1:33:51

So whatever the reason may be, I was lucky. I had a good support group. I had guys that worked overnight shift.

Speaker 1: 1:33:54

They'd show up first thing in the morning that's good, uh, parents would show up after work or you know, um, my parents both own their own business. My mother's a hairdresser. Okay, father runs a crane company now, so you know he they'd come in in the afternoon, or my mother would come during the day or days off. A lot of Netflix, a lot of. It's funny too, because I remember I'm like, oh, maybe I'll learn how to play guitar or something, and it's just like you feel like crap, you're in bed Sometimes you just want to sleep, you just kind of fall into. And I loved watching movies on deployment because it would escape. I'd get a complete escape. And the same thing now. Like you know, you watch a movie, you, I'm into it until it's over. Then it's like all right back to reality yeah so I watched a lot of.

Speaker 1: 1:34:40

A lot of netflix came out at around then so I was watching a lot of. You know, breaking bad and all that yep, um, sons of anarchy and keeping busy. So I'd feel like crap monday, feel like kind of crap tuesday. Wednesday I'd like do a workout and I lived across the street from a lake. I had a boat. I'd like go wakeboarding with my buddies. Um, tried to eat relatively clean, like at one point I was no gluten, no dairy, no alcohol. I wasn't drinking during chemo but, um, it was. Uh. Yeah, I talked to a holistic doctor and he said what happens when you throw alcohol on a fire? Like it explodes. He goes. That's what it does in your body. Okay, and gluten, dairy they cause inflammation, high acidity. I'm like, okay, cool.

Speaker 2: 1:35:30

So now your whole life is changing Diet, lifestyle, everything. What were some of the major changes that you had to do once obviously going through the chemo and the treatments?

Speaker 1: 1:35:40

What's crazy is, I didn't have to Really, so I didn't have to meaning that dietary change was me going to a holistic doctor Okay, I didn't have to meaning that dietary change was me going to a holistic doctor, okay. Whereas you go to Dana-Farber, to the uh, like you say, the chow hall, whatever cafeteria, they got pastries, sugar, pizza, soda, like they don't isn't that hilarious we've? I think I've actually talked about like a hard enough time finding a bottle like I like soda water and I was like maybe, maybe, one box of water.

Speaker 2: 1:36:08

Everything else is sugary drinks and this is at a hospital yeah, and I'm like dana farber saved my life.

Speaker 1: 1:36:14

yes, I appreciate them, but like there is a disconnect with diet and cancer when I think everything you put into you and cancer, and I think everything you put into you. Feeds it. You're feeding your body, yeah, you're feeding every day. So I think it's funny, not funny that. It's definitely ironic that you're at a hospital Because they train how to, they study how to radiate, pull something out in surgery or chemotherapy.

Speaker 2: 1:36:50

They don't actually care about what's in their kitchens and what they're feeding their patients there, which is hilarious. That just shows you how wrong we are as a society, even from the hospital food. Look at our. Look at our high schools and elementary schools what we're feeding kids and nobody like.

Speaker 1: 1:37:07

Why isn't it just simple clean food across the board and I mean that's the easy thing. Like it's, you know you can't, you can't charge, yeah, a hundred dollars for, like I mean maybe you can for organic food, but the hospitals are putting that money elsewhere oh sure In cancer research and a cure cancer research. So well, I started cycling because all right. After the chemo I did five months of that. Then the tumors in my lungs shrunk. Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:37:39

So there was scar tissue on my lungs so I had a surgeon go in, cut my whole back open, like my lat had to break a rib. What they do is they deflate the lung and your right lung has three lobes. So he took the top portion and bottom portion of the right lung and removed it from tumor residue. Damn, and he saved because I told him I go, look, I'm an athlete, I'm not a paid athlete like I'm a cop. Am I going to be a cop again if you take my lung out? So I think any other hospital would have done the easy thing taking my lung out. This guy turned a three-hour surgery into a six-hour surgery and I want to say he reconstructed a blood vessel and saved the middle portion of my lung, really. So when he got done he came into the room. I was out of it and sore and he told my parents like that was fun, like that's the dude you want operating on you, who's gonna go an extra three hours to save your lung because he knows.

Speaker 1: 1:38:41

I mean, I was the youngest guy in his room, maybe like, but pre-surgery I went to dr swanson. I said, hey, uh, what's my two mile runtime gonna be when you take my lung out? He goes dude, I don't know, he's like he's a harvard med guy. He goes look at my waiting room. Everyone's between 60 and 80 years old with copd. Like I'm not treating guys like you so for me I'm like I hope I wake up one. I hope I wake up when I hope I wake up to. I hope I wake up like feeling good, some lungs left. Yeah, so he saved that long.

Speaker 1: 1:39:12

Good, um, that was a tough recovery because they broke the rib. And then two weeks later I went for a followup and after scans I go home. I get a call from a Boston number. They said, hey, uh, it looks like your cancer has spread to your brain. Damn dude, you're just getting blow after blow. Yeah. So I had brain surgery, brain radiation, a bunch of times and then I was back on track for the 10% of the left lung removed from tumor residue. So I have like three holes on the left side where they scoped the surgery, took 10% out, removed it. Then they opted to have chemo, outpatient surgery sorry, outpatient chemo treatment and after that and after that did some scans. Alpha-fetoproteins were elevated so you could do a blood draw. Everyone has I don't know about every cancer, because there's over 200 different types of cancers. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:40:19

But my cancer, a blood draw. It had three different blood draws. Alpha-fetoproteins was one of them and my alpha-fetoproteins were one of them, and my alpha-fetoproteins were elevated every time I had tumors. Okay, so my alpha-fetoproteins normal level. What is that? Like 16 and under? Like if you had a blood draw and said, check my alpha-fetoproteins, it should be at like 16 12 15 whatever, some states are different, which is odd. That's interesting. Yeah, some would be 12, um, or you know, right around the team, not really a standard yeah, but those are those like cancer markers, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:40:52

So my alpha fetal proteins were always elevated when I had something wrong with me, which I would rather do a blood draw than do a ct scan or an mri, because every time you do a ct scan or an mri, you're inducing some form of radiation for sure, which is not good.

Speaker 2: 1:41:09

No, no they're all standing there in their lead vests and suits. And yeah, you're standing there strapped to a table so I would try to.

Speaker 1: 1:41:19

now I said like, oh, we'll do ct scans. I'm like, nope, I'm good, unless something is telling you to do that, like raise level blood levels or whatever. I just don't want to expose myself to radiation, so check my levels again.

Speaker 3: 1:41:37

Second brain tumor oh, my God so with the brain tumors.

Speaker 1: 1:41:41

they cut the skin, cut a hole, pull the skull out, a circle of the skull, remove the tumor that was resting on the brain, put the skull back in, put a screw in a clip. And that's when I was talking about being tased. I'm like hey, am I going to get tased? And the dude's like bro, I'm not tasing you, I don't know what's going to come out. So that's stemmed from that yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:42:07

So brain surgery, brain radiation, and then I was back to work and brain surgery was there's no muscle there, there's nothing up there. So the recovery was easy. It was three days. All this other stuff where they're tearing through muscle tissue, that's a slow recovery.

Speaker 2: 1:42:21

Well, and there's I could be wrong but pain receptors in your brain too, right? I mean, no idea, am I wrong on that? You know everything? Yeah, you do. Uh, I want to say there's no, you don't have brain or pain receptors in your brain. That's why. Which was?

Speaker 1: 1:42:38

funny. Before that is my left side of my body. My left leg was a little like tingly okay, and I chalked it up as I've been in bed a lot, I've been you know what I mean like in the hospital, a lot something. After that was pulled out, the tingling went away. So I believe the right side of your brain works the left side of your body, vice versa. So once that happened it was interesting how that went away.

Speaker 2: 1:43:09

Interesting, yeah, very so so now you've gone through testicular cancer, two lung surgeries, yep, two brain surgeries two rounds of chemo, two rounds of radiation, all within one amount of time three years, wow.

Speaker 1: 1:43:26

2012 to 2015.

Speaker 2: 1:43:27

I had 10 procedures and you're still wanting to be a SWAT officer yeah, that was a goal, that was a driving force.

Speaker 1: 1:43:35

Um so, like you go through all of this. So when I the day I got chemo was the day they had those SWAT tryouts and I was getting ready, and they're like jd, like wait till next time, I'm like which is two years, three years, yeah, probably three years. So it's like you know you're getting now.

Speaker 2: 1:43:50

The next round of SWAT trials is coming up. Are you going to go for it?

Speaker 1: 1:43:54

Yeah. So I went for it that time and that was right about my 10 years on the job, okay, and I got, um, they were doing tryouts for snipers and it was two day tryout. You have to study and you just it's smoke session. For you know you do a initial PT test and if you don't pass that, see you later and then you know you could get kicked out anytime for whatever. So we do shooting stuff, we do some sniper MO driven drills, like put some equipment in the wood line, yeah, and then you have a lot of time to spot it. So it'd be it was cool because the way they did it was very well, like they'd smoke you and then it'd be like that kind of thing, like a mental thing.

Speaker 1: 1:44:42

Yep, then they'd smoke you, then you do a mental then you do like a mental physical you do like a written test, okay, and then you do something else and then they give you kind of like the uh selection, kind of carry the, carry the ladder and five gallons of water and all this other stuff and uh, so after that I ended up, once I get on the, I actually ended up getting on the SWAT team as a sniper and so much fun. Like once you get on, I'm a cop for 10 years Like I'm good at what I think, I'm good at what I do, I enjoy what I do, I take it seriously. And then you're a new SWAT guy and you're like I don't know a thing.

Speaker 2: 1:45:22

You're starting all over again.

Speaker 1: 1:45:24

Yeah, okay, and you're like dude, I'm the new guy again. Yeah, okay, and you're like dude, I'm the new guy. I get a show up earlier.

Speaker 2: 1:45:31

I get to work harder, I get to prove, you're gonna prove yourself, especially with the guys that have been on for a long time are you designated swat or are you still on the road and then when a swat call comes out, you got to go get prepared for it, because I know departments are different yeah, so at that time it was kind of cool.

Speaker 1: 1:45:45

At that time I I went and I did the motorcycle school, Okay, so I passed that. I was on the bikes for like a month just riding Harleys around the city. I'm like dude, this is the chillest job ever. This is awesome, you could drive around. We drive around parks, we drive around everywhere. Yeah, because a bike could go almost anywhere.

Speaker 2: 1:46:05

Okay, here's a question for a motorcycle cop. Why are you all the worst ones? If you ever get pulled over by a bike, you're not getting out of a ticket.

Speaker 1: 1:46:12

Well, those are traffic guys, we're in traffic, so we do Worcester has a lot of different divisions, like we'll do operations, which is patrol, we have vice squad, we have gang unit, we have traffic, so traffic guys write the tickets. We're more of like the community policing, of like go behind city hall, kick some of the bums out. Like go to the parks where kids are trying to play, and then there's people shooting up like hey, beat it dude, like okay, so that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 1:46:37

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:46:37

And then we're on these old Harleys so they're like don't drive around all day. So we like drive around for a half hour and we'd have a partner, so be like all right, yeah, let's go get some coffee drive around a bit.

Speaker 3: 1:46:48

I'm like, yeah, let's go let's go to dunk a dough. Let's go to dunks.

Speaker 1: 1:46:52

Let's go to miss wister, let's go. Yeah, like all these different diners, that's a pretty skate ass job, so it was the best. They're like dude, put on some sunscreen, bring the analogy, bring the bottle of water and, uh, just cruise to go, yeah, so then paid for that, yeah okay, that's that's legit, and it was too chill, though, for 10 years on and I'm like still want to do cop stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:47:13

Okay, you're not really doing cop stuff because you're like you're not an operations guy, you could go to the calls, you're more of just policing the community.

Speaker 2: 1:47:20

You're like, you're more of a presence.

Speaker 1: 1:47:21

People love it. Every time somebody sees a guy on a cop uh cop on a bike, they're like dude, good day to ride. It's like yeah, it is yeah and cops on bikes will ride until they can't ride, like it'll be freezing rain. They're still out there. They're out there until their boss says you get to ride a cruiser, and then they're like fuck yeah, right, like would you rather be on a motorcycle or be in the cruise, or humping calls for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:47:44

So I was on that for a month. Because they don't pick swat right away. They, the swat team, meets up, they say all right, like you could score top charts, like you could be a stud and everything. But if you're not a guy that has good morals, like you're, not, so you're kind of peered in.

Speaker 2: 1:48:04

Yeah, okay, okay, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:48:06

So it's a good system. So a month goes by and then they're like hey, you made SWAT and at that time we had emergency operations, which is EOP, full-time SWAT, which is awesome, okay, so I was on day shift. I stayed on day shift, so it'd be me best friend AC he was a team leader and cruise around, go work out, Listen to the radio. Hey, guy with a gun, all right, go to that call. Really Guy with a knife, go with that call Barricaded subject.

Speaker 2: 1:48:37

Go to that call, and how often is that happening?

Speaker 1: 1:48:39

I mean we'd go to a couple calls a day Like we'd assist. They'd be like, hey, an alarm call, it's clear building, like all right, let's go. Are you guys full kitted up or you have everything with you? So we we'd have um ford explorers. We'd have a safe in the back, so we'd have shield. We'd have some tools with us uh some other guns with us.

Speaker 1: 1:49:00

We'd have our ars, yeah, and we would go to calls. We would assist with state police. We get a buddy on the state police, you'd be like, hey, jd, can you run this? And they'd be doing their stuff in the city.

Speaker 2: 1:49:09

We'd help out dea atf oh, okay, so this is pretty awesome. Yeah, so now you're in it.

Speaker 1: 1:49:15

You're enjoying it like dude. This is mint. So I'm doing entry team stuff being eop and I'm doing sniper stuff on the side.

Speaker 2: 1:49:23

I'm like this is awesome so you get to be like a cop from all the different realms of what it offers? Yeah, okay. So, uh, craziest SWAT call that stands out to you the most.

Speaker 1: 1:49:33

Uh, let's see Craziest SWAT call. So I'll get into the riots in a minute. But the crazy one was I was home. I usually do like Monday night dinners at my parents next town over. I think AC called me and he goes. It was kind of like. So sometimes we'll have a full call out where it's a recorded service. Somebody will call barricaded subject with a gun, whatever it goes out, barricaded subject, meet at the station as soon as possible. So the whole SWAT team goes. Sometimes the SWAT guy is already working, whether they're in operations doing calls, gang unit, detectives, whatever. Then they'll get on their gear. So we, we. There was a thing where we're kind of doing like half ass call outs where they'd call like six guys and or 10 guys and be like hey, come in, ac called me, I fly to the station, get my gear. Negotiators were there. So this was union station, uh, the hub for train station and bus station and there's a restaurant and stuff, and then attached that as a six story parking garage. Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:50:36

So I didn't see cause I was driving too fast. Ac, just, he's been on the SWAT team forever so he's just like dude, I'll get there. When I got there at home, finish feeding the kids, whatever perks. But he but he's never late, right Like I'll be flying hustling. Then all of a sudden he walks in. I'm like, how do you do that? So he was driving down Grafton street and you could see the top of union station, the parking garage. He said this dude was standing on the edge like ready to jump.

Speaker 1: 1:51:06

He looked like a gargoyle really this guy walked up inside the parking garage and then climbed outside to get on the roof, okay of the parking garage and the roof was flat and then it had a little like maybe a four inch lip and then a slanted piece like a tile or a piece of concrete and then it was down six stories oh, he was like, on that angled piece, it's getting dark.

Speaker 1: 1:51:32

It's dark, windy rain, cold rain, like it was in the fall, I think. So every scenario to make. Yeah, so in the middle where we walked up the ladder to get there's like a manhole and that flipped up towards the guy and one of our SWAT team guys had the beanbag shotgun that's supposed to incapacitate and he's like ready, kind of hidden, and the negotiators are talking to the guy trying to get him to walk away from the edge. Yeah, me, ac and Bobby are. I had the shield and a taser and I'm by the edge, but away from him, okay and bobby's behind me.

Speaker 1: 1:52:09

Hi, right, yeah, okay and then ac's behind me and the whole time I'm like like this is taking a while and run through scenarios in your head and I'm like man, that'd be wild if we're just like hanging over the edge like you see in the movies, like grabbing the guy. I'm like, all right, let's back to reality, let's figure this out. Got the taser. He's looking at me and I'm I'm not pointing it at him. I'm like, all right, let's back to reality, let's figure this out. Got the taser. He's looking at me and I'm I'm not pointing it at him. I'm like trying to show that I'm not being super vigilant, okay, or hyper vigilant. I'm just like dude, I'm here like put the.

Speaker 2: 1:52:39

He had a blade on him I mean, and then you're dealing with somebody that's obviously on the verge of jumping. Yeah, got a blade, so you have to play it super cool. You can't come into these scenarios aggressive because, yeah, you're trying to be, you're trying to meet, yeah so they're trying to gain some ground with him.

Speaker 1: 1:52:54

Talking to him, he wants to call his mother. So we have these throw phones. Throw phone so he walks away from the edge and the plan was, when he gets away from the edge, shoot him with the lesson lethal and then apprehend him. He walks I don't know how many feet, 20 feet enough away, where we're like it's safe enough where he's away from the edge. But you don't want to chase somebody off an edge, dude. He walks the phone, shoot him with the beanbag gun, boom, boom, but I think five or six shots. He turns and runs to the edge and this is a busy area. There's like a hundred or so people watching. Oh, it's a scene at this point. It's a scene. It was on YouTube and somebody pulled it down and should have kept it, but he runs to the edge. I dropped the shield and taser and I just start running towards him. Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:53:53

Right when I get to him I feel my shoulder. I don't know if it was AC or Bobby moved. The guy went to the edge and he had a I think it was a razor knife. He gets to the edge and turned. So when he turned I was over here. I grabbed, like single leg, his left leg. Bobby grabbed his right leg and he fell over backwards over the edge and he's fighting us as he's doing it and I land and I land on my chest and I'm looking down like six stories to the sidewalk.

Speaker 2: 1:54:32

So this dude is dangling over the edge and you have his legs.

Speaker 1: 1:54:37

Yeah. And you're looking over the edge, yeah, and I'm like we're going over, okay. And then all of a sudden I feel AC, like they jumped on us to keep us from falling for sure, like they go everybody.

Speaker 1: 1:54:50

It was nuts. And on the youtube video you could see the flashlight from the shield and you could see the guy walk away and then all of a sudden he runs back and you hear people screaming like in horror. And then all of a sudden, when we grab him, you just see dark shadows and he's hanging over and you hear wow, wow. And then people are cheering. You have no idea what's going on and they're just like they knew that we caught him okay, so everyone's like cheering and like over.

Speaker 2: 1:55:17

Yet dude, it was nuts.

Speaker 1: 1:55:20

So well he's hanging over there, just he's trying to cut you guys I think he dropped the knife at some point because, like we didn't get cut or he was he was so far over that he would like was hanging yeah and the guys on the fifth floor saw his like head. Okay, he was low, which means we probably had around his knees or shins or yeah, like it could have been his thigh because the roof was so low, but that was how did you guys just pull him back up over the edge?

Speaker 1: 1:55:51

I don't, honestly, don't even remember anything after that, like I remember grabbing him having weight and then I think he like curled up and guys were like grabbing him and pulled him in and that rush after that of like dude, we just, we just did you just dove?

Speaker 2: 1:56:07

on a dude to save his life, do you, do you genuinely think he would have jumped? Oh, definitely, really yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:56:14

Because after he went to the hospital and got assessed that day, two days later he went back to jump and the security guard recognized him and called the cops before he was able to get up.

Speaker 2: 1:56:27

You show back up the next day. You're like nah, I'm good, I was actually on a detail on grafton street and I heard it over the radio.

Speaker 1: 1:56:33

I'm like what, like the guy on this. You're like what?

Speaker 2: 1:56:36

no way yeah, man, you got lucky. Can you imagine getting pulled over from somebody?

Speaker 1: 1:56:42

but not only that, like this guy wants to kill himself, nothing says you have to stop him we have to stop them yeah, but it's just. But it's an inherent nature in mainly men to save a complete stranger, and I just heard a statistic on that of like the amount of guys that die trying to save people. Do you remember what that was? No, it was a lower number yeah but guys step in to help what's like jumping on a grenade yeah, you don't know who I mean. Obviously a lot of people aren't.

Speaker 2: 1:57:11

But then, yeah, I feel like that's. I'm not comparing it because there are dudes that have lived. You got the kyle carpenters in the world that have jumped on grenades and lift. But it's that, in that snap of a finger reaction time, if you're going to do it or not, you're not thinking like, oh shit, this is my time. It's just, it's a natural reaction to be able to act that quick.

Speaker 1: 1:57:33

So what we did after that I got a hold of my buddy who's a pj, former pj, and he was like did you guys? Were you guys hard lined in? I'm like what's that? And I'm familiar with rock climbing, I like climbing, I'm not great with ropes or anything. So basically he showed me and my buddy, he goes dude, buy 30 feet of 10 mil rope, get a harness, get a few carabiners, get a pressick like a thinner rope to you could use to choke it off, to like for your distance.

Speaker 2: 1:58:00

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:58:01

So we went back up to the roof and we, you know, kind of Ran through scenarios, ran through scenarios and we go, we go, we don't like, look, we're not trying to repel. There was days where our SWAT team was repelling and it was like nobody used it yeah there's a time and a place.

Speaker 1: 1:58:19

I think guys should know it, I think snipers should know it. Um, I think we should especially learn to be hard-lined, meaning you find a bomb-proof stairway, something that's not going to move, and you tie a rope to it, and then you tie a rope to wherever the edge might be, and then, if you have slack in the rope, you use aage. Looking to get here was a scenario where we saved a guy. We didn't have ropes Like can we get 30, 20 feet of rope, did they?

Speaker 2: 1:59:03

process.

Speaker 1: 1:59:04

No, I'm like dude, it costs nothing. A couple hundred bucks, yeah. Not only that, I went out to the um outdoor store. I bought all the shit myself yeah and I had it in my eop bag. I'm like that.

Speaker 2: 1:59:22

That's the frustrating part, that that's my biggest problem with our police force as a whole is they will buy.

Speaker 2: 1:59:30

They have no problem buying a furniture, a couch for some captain's office, but here you are dangling off the side of a six-story building, yeah, holding on to a dude that just tried to commit suicide yeah and you write up an op order or hey, this is, this is my recommendation to get carabiners and harnesses so if this scenario happens again, we can 100 guarantee we're going to save officers life if they get pulled over and then the department denies that yeah and you're in it. A couple of full sets would cost you less than 500 bucks.

Speaker 1: 2:00:02

You're talking d-rings, some carabiners keep it in the eop car, so even two guys have it like whatever. So I've actually I pulled it out two more times while working eop for like jumpers yeah, especially on the east coast, I mean you saw, we don't have the skyscrapers, but yeah I mean, it's not even that high, even a couple stories though.

Speaker 1: 2:00:22

I went to one call it was an overnight call and I'm like looking, I'm like there was nothing in this apartment so I'm like the toilet and guys like that ain't gonna work. So I went out into the hallway, started tying off to this big banister and a couple other things, and then I go back in. This dude was 400 pounds on a fire escape, like three or four floors up, and in my head I'm like how I can't let him grab on. The only thing I could do is sneak up on him somehow and pull him in yeah, if this guy goes, he's going.

Speaker 1: 2:00:53

Yeah, and I got set for it and then, um, as I was going to the window, we ended up like getting him in yeah but, at least you had the another time a guy was on a bridge where people jump off this bridge which, when I lived on the lake, we would jump off that bridge too, but some people would do it and be like you know, if somebody decides not to come up, that's another thing. Um. So I remember tying around the the we had the front bumpers, but they're not really bumpers, they're like the? Um for the sirens. Okay, it looks like a you know whatever cattle ran like push guard push guard.

Speaker 1: 2:01:28

So I tied it around that and then we ended up getting the guy down. But I'm like all right, well, you know I've used it. I seeked outside training for my buddy who knew what he was doing. We bought our own stuff. Yeah. Like you figure it out. Yep, one time I went to the emergency vehicle operator course for two weeks up in New Hampshire. We emergency vehicle operator course for two weeks up in new hampshire.

Speaker 1: 2:01:50

we drove around loudon, learned how to do all this cool driving stuff, so I was certified instructor to do that, yeah, and when I sit in the cruiser, I like a high visual horizon, like fist to the root you know what I mean like you're spacing my knees are almost touching the dash. That way you have more control. The steering wheel and our SWAT car, like the seat was broken, like the electrical thing. They're like, yeah, we can't fix it, like okay, so the seat was like super low. I end up like finding a broken cinder block behind the dumpster. Lift the seat, stick the cinder block under it and I'm like welcome to the 21st century.

Speaker 2: 2:02:26

Like dude it is mind-boggling, yeah, but they'll find funds for other dumb shit.

Speaker 1: 2:02:34

And then, when it comes to training and proper equipment, there's yeah, I mean the thing in around where we are like cops get paid well, which is a bonus. So I think that like I don't know if it's the money, they want the money to go back to the cops or they just don't care about equipment. Like we recently got, like I think last week got a bearcat, okay, and they were offered to us from the post-military stuff like for a dollar and stuff. You know, we can't put it anywhere, we can't do all this and I mean we need it.

Speaker 1: 2:03:10

Like there's been scenarios where we go to the guy shooting up like our swap vans were plumber vans. Like one of the swap vans I got, um, was empty and they knew I knew how to weld. They're like, hey, could you weld bench seats in the back? I was like, yeah, I could do that. So I like welded up bench seats. I'm like this is this is the second largest city in mass and you're doing it on your time. Yeah, well, made out like it's. If you don't do it, then you don't have it and, at the same time, you care.

Speaker 2: 2:03:42

Yeah, you enjoy your job, so it's just okay. Let's just get it done, but you would like to see it's like why don't we buy like?

Speaker 1: 2:03:48

I remember they were looking at up armored vans, so they're not. They don't look like a bear cat. Yeah, don't take up that. We're in the city. We got tight streets.

Speaker 2: 2:03:54

Bear cats are horrible for city environments oh, yeah, yeah which a lot of these departments don't realize. So they do need a smaller armor vehicle.

Speaker 1: 2:04:02

Yeah, and I remember looking at that, looking at the sheets, and they're like, yeah, we're not gonna do it, like, all right, makes sense, makes if it makes sense and you know they're not gonna do it. Yeah, that's, that's life yeah oh, so the? So that was the rooftop one. Another one was I was working, uh, during the riots like post george floyd riots yeah, how was that that was.

Speaker 1: 2:04:25

We were on standby. Like wister's second largest city, we're not as big as boston by any means. Like our riots are protesters who want to protest like good on you then there's right then there's people who are like the onlookers, who are just like look there, you know. And then you got the Wisterites, who sometimes have a criminal background, and then they see the opportunity to start throwing rocks and the agitators yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 2:04:59

So if you're breaking down riot scenario, there's three categories of people there you have your protesters and this is me saying it?

Speaker 1: 2:05:08

because we've seen like we had protests and they'll march around and they're not big enough to really cause big issues, like in some of the big cities around the country and it's like some people show up, they give some speeches, but then, like we literally had people.

Speaker 1: 2:05:27

So Clark University is in Maine South, which is a rough area, and it's a lot of college kids call them Clarkies, okay, and like right outside of the fence is, I mean it's an active area. If you want to do cop stuff like pretty active, yeah, active area. If you want to do cop stuff like pretty active, yeah and um, sometimes college kids get mixed up in the mix of be, you know, being a victim of circumstance. For sure for sure.

Speaker 1: 2:05:55

So we were on call all day, all night and I think we went home at like 1 am. They're like all right, swat team kind of stand down. We have, we have our own riot patrol, um. And so I remember going home and one of the police cruisers were being surrounded and there was a cop in it. Like they're surrounding my cruiser, like and not sure what to do, and I forget the exact specifics, but we're like SWAT team. They're like yeah, you guys are still good. We're like all right.

Speaker 1: 2:06:27

So I go home, take some melatonin, lay down eyes closed, call out oh my god so then like go to the station, get suited up, and then usually we do like as a sniper we'll take um different vehicles to the call outs or entry guys will take the van, but this is like a riot. Yeah. So me and AC, we were a full kit gas mask, kevlar driving to where the riots were. Okay, there was one dude with a Molotov cocktail on top of a building that one of our bosses like talked to him Really. On top of a building, that one of our bosses like talked to Really.

Speaker 1: 2:07:07

Yeah, and then down the street near Clark was like our tactical patrol team, our riot squad, yep, and then the instigators shooting fireworks, throwing rocks and the line kind of moved. So we came down a side street and we pulled up, we had our Explorer. We're in the middle of it. Oh God.

Speaker 1: 2:07:31

And then I take a left and all of a sudden, like this guy threw a rock at like the A pillar kind of just above the door. Yep, I'm like all right, keep driving. Like seen this before. Like in Iraq we used to, the ROE was shoot at rock throw throwers, shoot them or shoot at them. I'm, like you know, all situation dependent if you're going five miles an hour or if you're going 50 miles an hour, there's a big difference on what a rock is going to do to a windshield. So we go um and we see this. Like one of our guys gav points that he's like that's the instigator right there, like fireworks right at our guys throwing rocks, they have the guy pinned.

Speaker 1: 2:08:10

Yeah, we're like our lt goes. All right, let's get a good old snatch and grab. I'm like yup. And in my head I'm like wait, we've never practiced this.

Speaker 2: 2:08:18

What's a good old what's a good old snatch I get the idea of it.

Speaker 1: 2:08:21

I'm in, say we need volunteers and like me and um, a couple senior guys, a couple guys raised, there's like six or seven guys. We're like, yeah, let's do it. So we get in the van and like, all right, we're gonna drive up, get out, rush this kid, get him in the van, pull back and we're gas masks yep, like everything, you're full kitted out so we haul ass to the line, jack the brakes, get out and the kid just runs.

Speaker 1: 2:08:50

And this is like he's in, like sneakers, shorts and a tank top In your full kit with gas mask. Full kit, good luck. All of a sudden we're like running down the side street full mask and everything. I'm like this girl goes, what the fuck? It's like seven SWAT dudes chasing this one dude yeah, away. And in my head I'm like, yeah, what the fuck is right what?

Speaker 1: 2:09:14

are we doing? Uh-huh? He gets behind a house and now all of a sudden, like he's behind a house mask on and I'm like going to go behind the house. He dips out like gone. So everyone's like you catch him like. No, he's like either way, we get the instigator out of the equation yeah, he knows you're after him now.

Speaker 1: 2:09:35

Yeah so then it, like it, died down after that. But that was like getting a foot chase with my gas mask was always like why am I running with a gas master and their SWAT drill? This is stupid. Here you are. And then after that I started doing more sprints because I'm like you know, you learn, and like once you start rolling around with somebody and your jiu-jitsu's not great and they get up, you're like I need to work on that.

Speaker 2: 2:09:59

For sure.

Speaker 1: 2:10:00

And then I'm like, dude, I need to work and I always enjoy working on long distance and I don't have a lot of lungs working with me, so I was like you know, get there quick. So that was. That was a memorable one.

Speaker 2: 2:10:11

What's? Uh, let's shift gears to the thin blue ride of what you're doing now. So everything you've accomplished, you've gone through all the battles of cancer. And then you, with everything you've gone through, you had some medical bills afterward, even though you had great insurance. There's still expenses that come along with everything that you had. And you decided to give back to the law enforcement veteran community, along with their families, correct? Yeah. Okay, so let's dive into what you're doing now and how you're giving back to the community All right.

Speaker 1: 2:10:48

So well. Thin Blue Ride the name is based off of our cycling team, so we raised money for Dana-Farber Cancer Research. That was when I was getting better still doing treatment, I started cycling and I loved it. I'm like this is so much fun. I suck at running. I'm like I could do 20 miles. I could like. The other day, first time out this year, which was still late, I did 26 miles and I felt great, really. Yeah, okay. And New England's a good place to ride because it's hilly, you get some shade from the trees and like some good back roads. So started Thin Blue Ride. First year we raised $26,000 for cancer research, really.

Speaker 2: 2:11:25

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 2:11:26

Good for you and $6,000 for cancer research. Really, yeah, okay, good for you. And they took my story. I think WBZ from Boston highlighted me as one of the one of their opening ceremony scenes because I thought my cancer stuff was normal and little did I know. People are like you should write a book, you should do this. So once I sat in the back seat and I'm like, oh, that wasn't normal for me to get cancer 27 times.

Speaker 1: 2:11:50

Like so turned it into a 501c3. Okay, I had $26,000 in co-pays, like CT scan, that's $600 co-pay. Five days in the hospital without insurance, it's 35 grand. What do you think the co-pay is going to be? So my friends had a benefit from me, raised a good amount of money. I paid off credit card debt. I wasn't working. I was working as if I was getting paid 40 hours a week through our sick bank, which was great. But not everyone has that. Some people work a lot of details, meaning they work road jobs and they get paid good money, but you're also working. So if you're a cop and you're the breadwinner for the family and you're going to stay at home husband or a stay at home wife and they're not working, they're watching the kids and you're working 40 hours regular and then you're working 40 hours details and then that cop gets sick and has cancer, that 40 hours of details you're not getting. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:12:46

So some people get used to that. Um, I never did a lot of details which helped me. Like, if I planned a ski trip, I'd be like, yep, let's work some details pay for my icon pass or pay for a trip to go out to Park City and that's it. But a lot of law enforcement depend on that. Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1: 2:13:05

So we turned Thin Blue Ride into a 501c3. We raise money for military veterans, first responders and their families when they get cancer. So we have a process Good for you guys. We say, like, prove that you're a vet and have cancer, which people are more than likely happy to send us. Easy to do. It's tough to get these males to ask for help, but I tell them, hey, I had 26 grand in co-pays with good insurance. And they say, okay, maybe. And I also let them know what I've been doing holistically to keep healthy. I recently like a red light. For red light therapy, I got a hot tub and cold plunge. I was able to get some stem cell treatment. So like those are other options to help you live a healthier life. It costs money, but so doesn't your health. Like what's that worth?

Speaker 2: 2:14:05

For sure. So now that you're dealing with you're in a very tough world, which is cancer, because people lose the battle all the time, yeah, and so now that you're dealing with these men and women that are battling it, what are some of the biggest struggles that you're dealing with these men and women that are battling it? What are some of the biggest struggles that you see with cancer patients and what they're dealing with on a day in and day out?

Speaker 1: 2:14:37

Every situation is different. Some people that we help, some people that I help. I've helped people since after I got sick. Someone's like my dad got sick, my uncle got sick, and I'm more than happy to give helpful, helpful information because I've gone through so many procedures and treatments. So that's why they'll text me or message me. Hey, I'm going through this, but yeah, I'm like one of them. Go to boston, say. Go to boston, or a lot of guys that were helping on the military side going to md anderson down in Texas. There's places in Cal, there's good places around the country.

Speaker 2: 2:15:11

That's where my brother.

Speaker 1: 2:15:18

I think ended up, yeah. So from what I hear, they have good stuff, they're a good hospital, but some people have a hard time with that diagnosis and it's not supposed to be easy diagnosis and it's not supposed to be easy. But I think my mindset has been it could always be worse. We're in Iraq. We're down to one MRE a day, two bottles of water. There was dudes in Baghdad dealing with hand-to-hand combat. I'm like, well, that ain't us, so it could be worse. And then fast forward to you have cancer, oh, gonna take out your right testicle, oh, it could be worse. Dude like. And then the next thing there was always a light at the end of the tunnel for me, which helped me okay maybe if they told me something was terminal, my mindset would have shifted a little bit.

Speaker 1: 2:16:00

There was a little bit of the poor me stuff towards the end of like I, you know the brain cancer and the. It was I wouldn't say dark, but just like settling in like why the fuck is this happening? Like seriously, yeah, so why me like? Yeah, why me like I eat right, I fucking do good things, it's and. And then you have the cops I work with. Like it can't happen to the. You know the bum in the street drinking freaking. Uh, handle a vodka a day and I'm like hero in the last 10 years again yeah, and I'm like you know, I don't wish bad on anybody.

Speaker 1: 2:16:38

but living a healthy life, working out, trying to eat right, like meditate, do yoga, work out, do hard workout, do hard shit like do hard shit intentionally, because when it's time for that outside hard stuff to come the unknown, you know how to mentally process and deal with dealing with struggle, and anybody who's dealt with struggle has grown. If you battle through and keep your head up, you're going to come through struggle like tenfold, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 2: 2:17:16

so so I mean there's growth and struggle absolutely, and it shows and there should be, and if you're going through hard times and and you're struggling and you're, you're not finding the positives in it, how to grow from it, learning from it, then then you're in that victim mentality. I personally feel because you should that you should be able to head on every hardship scenario yeah okay, how do we overcome this? What? How do we pivot, pivot like?

Speaker 1: 2:17:44

and so now that you're in that mindset of constantly doing something hard, you're ready for it yeah and it's I think it's huge, like I always say, and everything bad, there is a little bit of good. Okay, you're gonna find that and hold on to it. So what was a little bit of good? You're going to find that and hold on to it.

Speaker 2: 2:18:00

So what was a little bit of good with you getting diagnosed with cancer?

Speaker 1: 2:18:07

The amount that I've helped people.

Speaker 2: 2:18:08

Yeah, how much have you guys raised so far to give back to the community?

Speaker 1: 2:18:14

Probably over 800,000.

Speaker 2: 2:18:17

What's so emotional about talking about this?

Speaker 1: 2:18:22

I think it's. It's coming to fruition now. I wrote this book. It came on Amazon like last week. I got a screenshot from my aunt whose friend is reading it and said she can't put it down and I hope he's doing well. I got a guy who's dealing with cml, who's a cop who was having a hard time with his diagnosis. I talked to him for an hour and a half last week and he sent me a picture like he went on a bike ride really, and he's highlighting.

Speaker 1: 2:18:56

And he sent me a picture like he went on a bike ride Really, and he's highlighting stuff I wrote in the book. I'm like that's what it's all about, because there was a point in my life like post-Iraq, maybe pre-Iraq, being in the military and I told myself I'm like my life resume sucks. I'm like I, you know, I, I've been doing some good stuff, but nothing great. I like what I, you know I I've been doing some good stuff, but nothing great. I like what I do. I don't love what I do. There's there's something that's missing.

Speaker 2: 2:19:26

More purpose.

Speaker 1: 2:19:28

Yeah, and like this is it, and literally like this week, it's like I'll come into fruition for you.

Speaker 2: 2:19:37

I'm happy for you, man. That's pretty awesome, feels good and to be able to give back to the community. It's tough and for people listening to start your own 501 and to I think I was looking at numbers. You're just short of almost raising a million dollars so far that you've given back to veterans and law enforcement, which is an incredible thing, we raise money, we don't take any of the money.

Speaker 1: 2:19:59

We me, my buddy Joe, my buddy Mike. Joe's another cop. Mike's my buddy who got me into cycling. Who's the CEO? My buddy Justin. Like we, I say it's easy, we fill this, we facilitate. Okay, we find out somebody's sick, we tell them we're going to help them. We get the info we need. We put a post up. We say hey, um, so-and-so is sick, put up some pictures of them. We could be as detailed or as vague as I want. Raise money for them? Okay, give them a check and we add funds to it. It could be a hundred bucks, it could be 5,000 bucks, depending on like, what's raised.

Speaker 1: 2:20:39

Like, if we raise 250 bucks for somebody, um, we'll add another, like 250 to it okay, if we raise 35 000 for somebody, we'll add like 5 000 to it and you know we're we're a small non-profit. We've helped people in california, texas, through, nationwide, all over, and we're trying to like follow Thin Blue Ride on Instagram and social media and go to our website and like I want people to be like oh, I know somebody that could help you and we could help you Like I could. If you don't want money, I could talk to you, we can get you on the right path. Like I like sharing my story if it's going to help people I have a campaign that you need to do.

Speaker 2: 2:21:23

Yeah, you need to get veterans and law enforcement officers that are into writing and map out a path.

Speaker 2: 2:21:31

And you need to do a ride, a long distance ride, maybe east coast to down the florida, whatever east to west, to raise awareness for this, because that would be extremely impactful to have people that have served our country, law enforcement, or veterans coming together that have now battling cancer due to burn pits. I feel my time's coming. Uh, how many veterans are we seeing now that are at the dealing with the va? I don't know if you know like you've seen some huge things on that.

Speaker 2: 2:22:05

That's, I guess, my next question, but it would be cool to see that come together yeah and then to raise that awareness, that level of awareness that would come from it, that would put eyeballs.

Speaker 1: 2:22:14

It was always the thing in the back of my head. I always wanted to go west to east or stopping you a big ride. What's stopping you? I think, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 2:22:23

Maybe logistics, maybe the reality no, no, absolute logistics get out of here. No, it'd be a nightmare, but it's doable. Yeah, and it, and let's just see the traction that it gains. Yeah, I'll ride with you through idaho if you come this way.

Speaker 1: 2:22:36

All right, I mean I like yeah, I mean I love the idea of it.

Speaker 2: 2:22:43

You're doing it yeah I'm fucking putting this on the internet.

Speaker 2: 2:22:46

I'm gonna clip this spot, just put you on blast to help raise awareness for your organization. You're doing incredible things. You're not taking any money. You're raising money just to give to the these, these men and women that are coming down. Yeah, because there's a lot of co-pays, there's a lot. They're missing work so they're not being a lot of companies aren't just helping that. And I look at my brother and this is why it means a lot to me, because my brother was the provider for his family. He wasn't a veteran or military, he was just a blue-collar guy. I remember talking to my mom and I'm like how's dave feeling? She's like god. He just got home. He's been in attics cleaning out bats and raccoons out of people's because he was a like a state trapper guy and he just finished chemo two days ago but he had to go back to he's deathly ill climbing in 150 degree attics in houston and the heat with chemo.

Speaker 1: 2:23:33

I passed out of the restaurant one time. It was like super hot, didn't hydrate enough, because I was somewhere, you know. I went to like a fair or something and uh, I'm like I feel funny and then I'm like I gotta go to the bathroom. Which I didn't have to go to the bathroom. I knew something was weird. So I'm like I gotta go. I'm glad I didn't go because I passed out right at the table and this was the last before the last session of chemo of the five days okay so then I go back to the hospital.

Speaker 1: 2:24:01

They're like, oh, did you have a seizure? So they're doing all these other scans and I'm just like, no, it's heat exhaustion. I know it is really. And then you know it's just your body. Your body is resilient, but it goes through a lot of trauma when you're doing so, like the amount of trauma that my body's gone through with all these surgeries and stuff oh yeah and then you're, you're expecting the, that husband or wife, the whoever's providing, to just deal with it yeah, go back to another thing, for the spouses too.

Speaker 1: 2:24:28

like I've seen spot, it's very hard for the spouses to deal with cancer diagnosis, for sure, because being a military guy, being a cop, we see a problem. We want to figure out a way over it right, and that's how you get over things.

Speaker 1: 2:24:46

If your wife or kid is sick, you can do nothing but just be there for them. You can't cure their disease. You can't make them feel better and I've seen it. We're problem solvers and we can't cure their disease. You can't make them feel better. Like it's and I've seen it, it's, it's, we're problem solvers and we can't solve that problem, which is tough.

Speaker 2: 2:25:04

Yeah, that'll, that'll wear on you for sure. Yeah, I couldn't even imagine having to be a father, or a husband to watch your kids deteriorate. I watched my parents watch their son deteriorate to nothing. It was that's's the. That's the most traumatic, hardest shit I've ever had to go through. Yeah, of watching that the. You know my brother loses battle and so I I get it and the fact that you guys are what you're doing to help in those times his.

Speaker 1: 2:25:30

It gets dark too. Like sometimes I get a call, somebody that we've helped passes away or somebody's diagnosed and it's just like wears on me, even though I don't know them. Like I know a lot of my close friends and then my wife's, like kelly does a good job.

Speaker 2: 2:25:46

She's like all right, let's refocus his energy and, you know, get to helping it's kind of why I was asking a little bit ago of the help that you're. It's got to be tough because you're getting to know these people yeah on a personal level as personal as you can get while they're they're going through their treatments and everything like that, and so you are building a bond and a relationship with them to certain levels and not everybody's is not going to make hey, I'm cancer free a lot of people are getting the terminal call, yeah, and then it's just then you.

Speaker 2: 2:26:16

Then you can't just turn off the support. You got to ride it all the way until their last breath. And then now that's another one, and then you're helping the next person and let's say they go. And so now, with your line of work, it's at least for us we're getting to help these vets and we get to see this positive income and we spark this fire within them. And now they're, they're doing incredible with you. Yeah, it is God's work because you're dealing with a lot of people that aren't making it and I commend you for that. It's it's.

Speaker 2: 2:26:48

It can't be easy, because then you're taking a lot of that weight and burden on, because you you feel invested in these people in a positive way. And not any. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Yeah, because I'm sure a lot of people don't have anybody. Yeah, it's knowing that you guys are out here, a fellow vet, a fellow law enforcement officer, and you're with them through their journey, through recovery, or as long as they make it, you know, and it's pretty tough.

Speaker 1: 2:27:12

It's tough, I think starting this, that wasn't in the line of sight, no, but you know what I mean. Then then it it comes up and it's like man, like, but there's still good behind, like we're still helping the family, absolutely like I still get calls from uh, tracy lapana, who aj was um amazing guy. I met him twice, I talked to him a bunch Green Beret, middle bro, cop, um like awesome guy, awesome network of family and friends, super supportive. And you know he he didn't make it, but the connection that I have with his wife, tracy, she came and spoke at one of our golf tournament events and like, when we're trying to raise money, I hate asking people for money and we are grinding.

Speaker 1: 2:28:07

Like we sell t-shirts and we have events, we don't have corporate sponsors, we don't have people matching our donations. Like we have our golf tournament is a good moneymaker. It's a lot of work to get sponsors and stuff. But then to have people like, hey, we're, you know, we're asking for money for raffle tickets and whole sponsors and then all of a sudden, tracy gets up there and speaks and you can hear a pin drop. Yeah, um, and we've had other speakers that we've helped in the past and that hits home to our guests saying that like this is what we're doing, like it's not just asking for money golfing, because I hate asking for money for people, but you know it's, that's part of it. Money is not the cure, but it helps absolutely it's the root of all, especially for this because I have numbers.

Speaker 1: 2:28:52

I mean and I'm no investigative journalist guess how many people get diagnosed with cancer every day? 5,600 people in the United States get diagnosed with cancer every day.

Speaker 2: 2:29:08

Wow, I had no idea.

Speaker 1: 2:29:10

And there was only 16% of veterans use the VA for care. So I forget what the number is for the VA soldiers getting diagnosed with cancer. But picture 5,300 of World War II Vietnam GWAT vets and the veterans who served in the US on all these bases that had exposure, all these OCONUS bases outside the United States, all these places where guys had burn pits, guilty of that. Yeah, like those numbers Of that 50, I mean there's a lot of vets and there's a lot of people that are exposed. You're saying 50? 5,600 Americans get diagnosed A day, a day 5,600.

Speaker 2: 2:30:04

Can you do that math Please? We're both veteran. I'm Marine, so I'm definitely not doing the math. 5,600 a day yeah, I mean, what is that? A year?

Speaker 1: 2:30:14

Let's see 5,600. You're supposed to be the 65 2 million, 2, 2 million, 440 000 a year, a year a year. And then there's also, let's see, I mean never mind the, uh, I have two numbers 4.2 to 3.5 million veterans served. Put uh, global war on terror. And like how many of those guys?

Speaker 2: 2:30:46

because you see these numbers.

Speaker 1: 2:30:47

I haven't dug into them yet, because it terrifies 153 veterans a day are diagnosed according to the va, which only 16 of veterans use the va 16% of veterans use the VA.

Speaker 2: 2:30:58

Only 16% of veterans use the VA, yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:31:03

I mean, I get that through the National Library of Medicine. That's insane. These are quick searches that I've done.

Speaker 2: 2:31:09

Let's say it's 25% of veterans use the VA.

Speaker 1: 2:31:12

That is insane to me. Over half a million of those have been diagnosed with cancer. Over half a million GWAT those have been diagnosed with cancer. Over half a million g-watt veterans have been diagnosed with cancer, not counting world war ii, you know you know what I mean? The other vets, vietnam, all that stuff, and those guys are tough as nails. They won't even go to the va and nobody's and this isn't a thing like why?

Speaker 2: 2:31:33

why isn't this?

Speaker 1: 2:31:35

Well, I mean. Another thing is chemo companies is over 15 that I checked out. Pfizer made $5.1 billion in 2022 for cancer drugs.

Speaker 2: 2:31:47

Okay, so let me ask you this question how long were the lines at your chemo treatment?

Speaker 1: 2:31:51

I go to Dana-Farber. If you go to any cancer clinic Monday through Friday, sometimes there's a line to get in at 7 am and they're packed outpatient. They're just printing money, yeah so there's no cure for cancer, right?

Speaker 1: 2:32:14

So three years ago I got diagnosed with chronic myeloid leukemia so it came back. So it came back. It was seven years cancer-free Sorry to hear that, man. So I was taking Ticigna, which is a CML drug causes bone pain, and I was working. I was on the mounted unit riding horses in the city, which is crazy. Um so I was still on the SWAT team, but my regular day job was riding horses, really, yeah, um so, still on the SWAT team, but my regular day job was riding horses, really. Yeah. One time AC called. He's like, hey, we get a SWAT call out and I'm like, I'm like, dude, head into the station. Really it was nuts so funny really.

Speaker 2: 2:32:47

I mean, do you get to, like, use that horse for force?

Speaker 1: 2:32:50

well you can. Our horses were. They were great. I was terrified to ride them. They were fun and like we're even horse people are like you ride these things in the city like people zip by on, like the bikes or the mopeds with the loud exhaust or the car backfires or a guy jackhammering in the city and the horses like you're gonna hold those things down there.

Speaker 1: 2:33:14

Wow, that's legit yeah, so I mean it was fun. But, um, those things down there, wow, that's legit. Yeah, so I mean it was fun. But um, so then I was on the mounted unit and I would go. We were posted up at the jail, the house of corrections, and we had our barn there and I'd work out.

Speaker 1: 2:33:28

And when I would run, at the time I just like just turned 40 and my o2 levels were garbage. I'm like what, why is running feel like crap? I'm like is this what old age is? And I went to the pulmonologist. She said we need to do a stress test. So let's go up and down the walk up and down the hallway. And I said I can't, that's not, I go. Could I run the stairs? So she said, yeah, I guess you could run the stairs. I'm like walking's not going to get my O2 levels down.

Speaker 1: 2:33:57

So I walked down the stairs, run up, walk down, run up. My O2 levels were like 87. What are they supposed to be at? I mean a hundred, okay, but they could probably drop to like mid to low nineties when they're in the 80, 87, 85, then your organs aren't getting the oxygen, okay, which isn't good, I guess. So I start doing stress tests checking my heart, checking my lungs Is it the new? The leukemia pills I switch meds, it doesn't go away. So I'm in limbo for two years I'm out of work. For two years they did a heart test where they ran an arterial line down my neck into my heart and that was a jacked up procedure.

Speaker 1: 2:34:50

It was supposed to be like a half an hour, it was like an hour and a half and I'm awake and I hear, oh, it's oozing, I'm like what? And'm kind of like the medical stuff like I've kind of thrived in, like that combat, lifesaver, stop the bleeding type stuff, like I kind of understand it. And I'm telling myself like, all right, stay calm, they're cutting in. He goes oh, I'm gonna need a stitch. I'm like you didn't say that before? And then they pushed this thing down my artery and I had this like I didn't mean to do it, but it caused me to like have an agonal noise, like like a weird okay on, like I didn't, uncontrolled, uncontrolled noise, okay. And I said hey, just to let you know, like I didn't mean to make that noise and like, yeah, your arteries are like really tight. I'm like okay.

Speaker 1: 2:35:40

And then they that machine wasn't working to do some, so I was in the or for a while and kelly's in the waiting room and then they said, yeah, we'll bring them out after a half an hour, 40 minutes an hour, and 20 minutes later they wheel me out and go, so I have to go to this room to do a stress test. So they put me on a stationary bike. I'm like crucifixed out. My arms are out to my side. They find my arteries through my wrist. Oh, so they never ended up going. No, they did so. They do both. So you still have this.

Speaker 2: 2:36:14

So I have this thing in me, okay, and then she I go, are you good?

Speaker 1: 2:36:16

have this in you, so I have this thing in me, okay. And then I go are you good at this? And she said yeah, I'm really good. She stuck me like five or six times and I was fasting so I was cranky, you know, your veins are like super tight. So I get on the stationary bike and I'm a cyclist so I'm like I'm going to crush this. So they put my arms are out to my side like crucifix style. They put this x-ray machine that looked like a microwave on my chest, strap my feet in and then I had like a snorkel type breather and then they pinch my nose with this like clothespin, oh my God. And I had to pedal and every minute it would get harder and every minute they would call wedge and they would draw blood from my arteries and check the oxygen levels from my heart and this little window behind me. I did it for like eight or nine minutes. It was the worst experience out of any surgery I've ever had.

Speaker 2: 2:37:13

It sounds like it.

Speaker 1: 2:37:14

Dude, it was nuts, are you sitting?

Speaker 2: 2:37:17

up or laying down. I was on a bike, oh like legit, like a jet, like a, like a 1980s stationary bike and you're sitting there. They got you strapped like crucifix style.

Speaker 1: 2:37:26

Yeah, that's so I get done, they pull that out and then I'm in the waiting room and this is probably one o'clock in the afternoon and I was fasted from all morning and all the trauma that my body just went through and the doctor's talking to Kelly and I go. I don't feel good, I'm like I'm going to pass out. So they brought out some like Gatorade and crackers and then I went across the street to get as a bar across the street with some good food. I crushed it. It was like I think I had like chicken tenders and like French onion soup, ate it Like. It reminded me of my first meal I had in iraq where I was shoveling stuff in, had bugs on it and everything. I'm like dude.

Speaker 1: 2:38:08

I was so hungry and that test revealed it got to the low 90s for o2 and they're like, yeah, it looks good. But I said I was on a bike and it was. It was harder every time I could get my o2 levels like I ride my peloton. All the time I ride my bike I could get on my peloton and do a high rpm with lighter resistance and get my heart rate down, whereas this bike kept getting harder and harder and harder. So it was more like muscular than it was cardio. Yeah, so I was like, well, that was a bullshit test. I go plus, I'm not going to chase after anybody on a bicycle. Well, I was on the bikes for like a little bit, but the the weight of running, the resistance, like when I go upstairs my o2 levels drop. So I still work out, I still do jujitsu, I have an o2 sensor, so like even when I come out west and go skiing, I take a day off to take oxygen and get an IV and settle in.

Speaker 1: 2:39:00

I've realized my new normal has shifted For sure. So that's what caused me to retire. So I retired at 50% of my retirement on a medical disability. I did 18 years. I was able to buy back two years from military with the city and able to buy back two years from military with the city. And there's no like cancer clause for retiring early. So firefighters have cancer, we don't. Cops don't get cancer. We have the heart bill and we have stress. If you want to retire early, really, yeah, so you could get 72 percent for stress, like stressful incident. Or cops have cardiac issues, so you could do heart bill. We had to like dig and find a way, because there was a time where I'm like there's no light duty at our department.

Speaker 1: 2:39:50

It's from our union or something. So there's no light duty. Everybody is a cop, is expected to perform at whatever level. Even if I was behind the desk in the office and someone came in shooting up the place or had to get apprehended, you, you're able, you have to perform as any other cop, for sure, granted. That's not the case because there's different standards and people don't. But that's another thing. Yeah, so I was happy with my career. Yeah, so I was happy with my career. It's weird to say to say like I'm a retired cop or I'm retired at 42 years old, but I've totally accepted it. If this was 10 years on the job without having swat and the experiences, I would have been like no, I want to stick with it. But having the experiences I've had now being a dad, like two stepkids, two of my real kids, like I mean, my stepkids are my kids. You speak very highly of them.

Speaker 2: 2:40:47

It's awesome we actually talked about it last night how proud you are of claiming these children as yours, which is great man. They claim me just as much as I claim them.

Speaker 1: 2:40:55

I hate the term step, yeah, like I never use it. Like, which is great man that's? They claim me just as much as I hate the term step, yeah, like I never use it. Like I say it so people understand, but it's like they're not my step, kids don't stop using it.

Speaker 2: 2:41:03

Yeah, yeah, honestly like, if that's, I'm 100 like yeah, if you're raising those kids and they accept you as yours. And you're there, your dad.

Speaker 1: 2:41:11

Yeah, that's, I'm with it yeah, it's funny, like when I printed the book vivi, she just turned 11. She's like data. She's like I got your the book, Vivi, she just turned 11. She's like Dada. She's like I got your first book. I'm like, all right, babe, you got the book.

Speaker 2: 2:41:20

And she slept.

Speaker 1: 2:41:21

Let's talk about your book. She slept with it under the pillow her first night.

Speaker 2: 2:41:25

Beyond survival man. So what led you to?

Speaker 1: 2:41:29

write this book. So this was when I was doing those tests. Okay, I thought it was a heart thing and that scared the crap out of me. And what also scared me was that I had two kids, and I don't remember when I was their age. I said if I, you know, go like if I die, what are they going to know about me? Yeah, so I wrote the book and I didn't plan it, I didn't brainstorm, I just dumped everything on paper, oh, sorry, in my computer.

Speaker 1: 2:41:56

Kelly got home from a work trip. She was what are you doing? I said, oh, I'm writing a book. She's like that is awesome. Yeah, and I hate sitting down for long periods of time. I hate computers. Three hours a day, I'd do that once a week. That'd be two hours, it'd be four hours. So, like, once a week, I would do it maybe every two weeks, just chip away at it. Yeah, it took a year to do it. And then, um, all based off memory you know what I mean like I wasn't taking journals like my whole life. So, yeah, um, and I wrote it.

Speaker 1: 2:42:28

I reached out to a few publishing companies and I'm clueless on what to do. I reached out to my buddy, chris cathers, who's he's got terminal cancer. He, he's a former Green Beret awesome guy. He has a nonprofit called Brothers Keeper that helps get veterans resources that are dealing with suicide. Okay, um, so he's doing a great job and I know he knows people that have written books.

Speaker 1: 2:42:54

He helped out, he, he had me reach out to a bunch of people and uh, I kind of went from there and then my best friend AC, his wife, she's like oh, I know a ghostwriter, so ghostwriter is somebody who helps somebody write their book. Yeah, they're the author. Like, so I wrote my book. They fine tune it. Yeah, they fine tune it. He just kind of went through and I read that book and it's just like I wrote it. It's just, you know, a little cleaner. Um. So dennis vaness, he does a great job. He's from like a few towns over. He's got a son who just joined the army. He's out in germany, his daughter's in oncology. So he heard my story. He's like, dude, we're gonna do this and like I think he knocked it out of the park.

Speaker 2: 2:43:39

That's badass you got a picture of here your scar yeah, you cut that's where they broke your rib. Yeah, damn, you got all kinds of stuff in here, man. I see mount everest. Yep, yeah, that was a good trip. All right, we got, we got a little bit of time. Tell me this trip of mount everest and we'll end it on that all right.

Speaker 1: 2:44:01

So funny story I have a buddy chase okay, he's my team leader on the SWAT team and my buddy paul, who's a sniper on the SWAT team. So paul said, oh, I'm going to everest with chase. I said, oh, cool, cool, I'm like I want to go. He's all right, I'm going to check with him. Paul's son's name is Chase. He's in the Air Force Okay, space Force. So I didn't know I was butting into a father son trip. Oh, okay, okay, cause I saw my buddy Matt. I go, dude, you go to Everest with Paul. He's like, what, what are you talking about? I'm like, oh crap, I'm like he's talking about his son.

Speaker 1: 2:44:37

So then they then paul was like, yeah, chase said you could go. I'm like, all right, cool. So we went on like the low budget end of the trip. I think it was 1500 for the flight, 1500 for the service so flew. We flew to get his son. He was in the um military. We went out to minnesota, picked him up, flew to vancouver, flew to southern china, then flew to nepal. That's a trek. Yeah, it was a trek, it was. I was like man. Next time I'll just fly on my own, because last I went to china, um right, when I got out of iraq and I flew, it was from chicago to beijing, like over the north pole. So I was hoping for something like that. But this was a long, lot longer. So we get to nepal.

Speaker 1: 2:45:19

We did a few days in nepal and for his crazy, like dirty city, it is such a cool place really everybody like there's no horns, beeping, nobody's yelling it's, there's a lot of people, but everyone's just like cruising on doing the thing, they're very, very peaceful. We get to see some temples. We get to see where they burn bodies on the river. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:45:42

So the eldest son has the honor to burn their father or mother or whatever. So it's like the river leads into the Ganges River in india, which is, um, I'm not sure how far from there. But they burn the body and they put these wet leaves on it to kind of keep the fire going, and then they put those ashes in the river that ends up. It was wild to see. It was very interesting.

Speaker 1: 2:46:12

There's actually quite a few cultures that burn their bodies, yeah, and we seem very peaceful and we get to watch it, we get to walk through the like, people having services, and it's full celebration, I mean free. Some people are wailing, crying, very colorful, with some of the stuff they're wearing, um, and it seemed very to me. It seemed it made more sense than getting in a box and burying six feet and paying a ton of money and like, like this is back to the earth. So we did some Nepal stuff, took a small plane to Lukla airport or Tenzing Hillary airport, okay, like one of the most dangerous airports in the world. Why? So it is a mountain. So if you're short, you're hitting the mountain, okay, and if you're too far short, you're hitting the mountain, okay, and if you're too far, you're hitting a wall oh okay, I'm gonna have to google this yeah, it's pretty.

Speaker 1: 2:47:04

I got some good pictures of it so that the runway is like downhill. So when the planes come in, like I have a video of it of landing, like you don't see anything, anything. And then you're on a runway and then I'm laughing and clapping because it's only like one lane or one row on one side, one row on the other. You put cotton balls in your ears and before every flight you could see the flight attendant and the pilots like serving tea, like it's their last frigging meal, and what they do is they use line of sight to land. So you'll see the plane Like you could look through the curtain that's flapping yeah and they'll.

Speaker 1: 2:47:41

one plane will land and then it'll move. One plane will land, it'll move over and then they take off, take off, take off. So you're jockeying in the airport to like try to get on a plane because once, once it's red like you can't fly and then you have to wait like a day or a few days if it's foggy. So we flew in, met our guide, we had a guide and two porters, and the porters carried our big bags, which we felt like a jerk, but you're at like 9,000 or 10,000 feet.

Speaker 1: 2:48:06

You're paying the local economy and you're helping yourself on your trip. And it is a cool trip. You can do it yourself because there's no cars Once you get to Lukla. We chose to hike three hours to a village where other people stay in the village overnight and then hike Okay, so there was only three of us, some groups I saw 20 people In a group. In a group I'm like dude, I'd lose my mind because you're waiting for everybody and Paul is super fit, chase is fit and I got half my lungs. This is 2019, so I'm like I don't even know if I could do this. So we do three hours chill and we have the we call it the mountain brew. It was like tea with honey and ginger or whatever. Okay, and then it was vegetarian for that whole trip because there's no refrigeration. So we hiked another eight hours a second day, super steep, up to the Namche Bazaar, which is one of the very high village, like one of the last big villages on the way to Everest Base Camp, and I got sick as a dog.

Speaker 2: 2:49:12

I'm in my sleeping bag Altitude sickness or just like you drank water type of sick, yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:49:18

So it was super steep and I'm trying to keep up and I'm like pushing myself. I get in my sleeping bag and I'm telling myself I'm gonna have to go home and tell everybody I didn't do base camp, so it was a base camp track. We weren't trying to hike everest. Um, I'm like I'm gonna have to fly. I'm gonna have to fly to the philippines or something and chill out. You know, I'm planning my other vacation in my head because I can't go any further. I wake up, I have some dalbat, which is like a local meal. I felt like a million bucks. Okay.

Speaker 1: 2:49:47

I have pictures of my O2 levels at like 62. Oh God, and I show that to my pulmonologist now and she's like that is stupid. So but once you, once you get to that height, you have like a rest day where your body acclimatizes and then you hike up maybe a thousand meters and then you hike back down. So your rest day you're actually still hiking. You go down and then it'd be a six or an eight hour day to another village, yeah, and then you get to their tea house they have a lot of like danishes and coffee and stuff and they show a lot of like Everest movies, which is funny because you see stuff on the walls from people that climbed Everest. That's cool, it's wild, it's back in time, it's so cool. And everywhere you look it's like summit to the ground of just like sheer cliffs and beautiful mountains everywhere.

Speaker 1: 2:50:36

And we kept going. So I, mountains everywhere and, um, we kept going. So I felt better and I remember this. This was like day three after the Namche Bazaar. I had a headache from the elevation and I'm like, oh, let me just stand on my head. And I wanted that to be the cover of the book.

Speaker 2: 2:50:51

So really, yeah, and this is, this is at Everest. Yeah, so this is at Everest.

Speaker 1: 2:50:55

Yeah, that's pretty cool. The publishing company it, said the picture was too grainy so they couldn't use it. So I found Killer Ball Media, my buddy. He made it work. I go, I don't care if it's a little grainy, that is a cool picture. Yeah, I went to the Barnes and Nobles and looked at covers and I'm like we're good, this is the best. It's like from here up or just their face.

Speaker 2: 2:51:20

I'm like well I feel like no offense. Well, yours, you're smiling, got a hat on, but, like every author's picture is like some cheese stick.

Speaker 1: 2:51:26

Yeah, they're in a suit like um the quarter suit, the elbow pads I wrote a book, like I published a book, yeah, so, and I think that's cool like that. Um, so we did. It took six days to get to Everest Base Camp Chase got really sick A week to get there.

Speaker 2: 2:51:41

Yeah. Once you landed in country, it took you a week to get to base camp.

Speaker 1: 2:51:47

Yeah, and it's funny because you don't even see the mountain. So at one point it was funny when I did that really steep hike, when we get to the top there were these dudes like rolling these dice and they had a mat on the ground with pictures and your dice had to match the pictures. So I started gambling a little bit, just for fun, okay. And then I like won some money and then I'm like, all right, I'm out of here. But you could see Everest like through the tree. The tree is silhouetted, it perfect. You could see Everest like just a bit, okay. And then you hike and you go to different villages and you see, like I got Mount Amadeblon tattooed Like it's a gorgeous mountain, it's very the peak, it looks normal. And then you go to the side, it's kind of gnarly, it kind of looks like Zermatt, like that steep peak in Switzerland. Okay, very cool, a lot of people climb that. So then we get to base camp and Chase had to get airlifted off because he got sick. Really.

Speaker 2: 2:52:42

Yeah. So here you are going on this base camp Everest trip with chunks of your lung missing, and you think you're going to be the one. That's a problem.

Speaker 1: 2:52:50

Yeah, and one of these guys ends up getting life flighted instead, and it's crazy too, because altitude sickness, like I'm sure you're, you know like it, like you could get it or not get it, you could go to the mountains a million times everybody at one time I think it's like if your body's fighting something.

Speaker 1: 2:53:06

So they flew him. We had nomad insurance, like travel insurance, and the highest that helicopter could go was that it wasn't base camp, it was a three hour hike to base camp from the village. So the helicopter flew to the village seven grand to fly him back to Kathmandu and they had to pay that up front because you could go to base camp and be like, yeah, I'm sick, I need to get airlifted out of here.

Speaker 2: 2:53:34

Yeah, this doesn't want to walk a week back.

Speaker 1: 2:53:36

So once you go to the hospital, I think they justified him being there. So he had fluids and he felt better. He flew to some other place that his buddy told him about, but me and Paul kept going, so he went back with a guide sorry, a porter. Okay. So we had a porter and our guide and our our guide loved us because we were moving like we were almost keeping up with our porter. Oh, yeah which they don't like. Like they're ripping butts, they're hiking.

Speaker 2: 2:54:02

They're like they don't want these tourists beating them to the tea house and I'm sure they're used to just the most unadded out of shape oh yeah, and I was.

Speaker 1: 2:54:10

I was impressed with a lot of the people I saw there. Um, I did see some kids there. I'm like these kids got to be from colorado or something because they were they're, like you know, 10, 12 years old.

Speaker 2: 2:54:22

I was like jesus christ, those are the hippie kids. Yeah, their parents are just like hiking hippies and take them everywhere with them. They're like that's impressive dude.

Speaker 1: 2:54:30

I'm like that's cool, so, but I wasn't pushing it, I was, let me put my headphones in, let me do my pace, because after that second day of like trying to keep up, trying to keep up, so they'd be a mile ahead and they wait for me, um, and I'm just like you know what I'm, I'll get there when I get there, yeah, because I'm not ruining my trip and paul's a super fit guy. And then, towards the end, like he started getting sick too a little bit, um, like it was it's, it's not an easy thing. So we went to base camp and we came down. Then we went through chola pass, which was like a snowy pass. We had to hike up this gnarly thing, like not climb, like we're climbing hands and feet, but not like anything crazy. Sure, like you don't need ropes or anything. Um, we get through that. And then we go to goki ori, which was, I think, like 17,000, six or eight hundred feet above sea level.

Speaker 1: 2:55:29

Yeah, we had a beautiful view of everest and the glacial slide and this bright turquoise water. And then we hiked back. It was some people go to base camp and back, so you see everything, and then you go back the same way. We went like counterclockwise and we didn't hit the same trail until the last day. We finished a day early really. Yeah, you guys were moving that quick, yeah. And then we went back to Kathmandu and we just partied. It was so much fun.

Speaker 2: 2:55:58

That's pretty badass man.

Speaker 1: 2:56:01

And it was cool because when I had my low oxygen a few years ago, my doctors are telling me it's because of your lungs, it's because you're older. I go, dude, I rode my bike up one of the top 10 hardest climbs in the world. I did Mount Washington because I saw it in a cycling magazine. It said top 10 hardest climbs in the world. I said I want to do this and I did it. I just did it by myself. I drove up, rode it and then rode home. Really, it was the hardest thing I've ever done, really, yeah, and that was 2018, 2019 or 2020, whatever the next year. I did that and that was hard. So my doctors are telling me oh, it's because you had your lungs ripped out. I said I had my lungs ripped out in 2015. I went to Everest in 2019 or 2020. And five years later, four years later, you're telling me it's because of my lungs. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:56:55

I'm like that doesn't Math isn't that doesn't math.

Speaker 2: 2:56:56

Yeah, you're telling me it's because of my lungs. Yeah, I'm like that doesn't math isn't math.

Speaker 1: 2:56:58

Yeah, it's. Either it could be the covid shot that's a whole nother conversation. It could be the chemo meds I'm taking or something else that happened with me that you know. But it's my new normal, I've accepted it, I've adjusted. Um, that's another thing I didn't want it to harp on is know your body and be your own advocate. If you know you're feeling good, that's great. If you have something wrong, like torn muscle, something's achy, you feel like crap. You're coughing up blood like go to the doctors or put a two-week mark in your calendar.

Speaker 1: 2:57:33

If it doesn't get better because typically you pull a muscle, you get better, you get sick, you get better calendar. And if it doesn't get better because typically you pull a muscle, you get better, you get sick, you get better After that two week mark of it, you're not getting better, something's up, okay, then you go to the doctors and then you ask your doctor like you push for answers One we don't want to know anything's wrong with us. So if the doctor's like, hey, it's because of this, then you're like all right, cool, see ya, they only want to give you 10 minutes anyways. So then you can go from there and push for answers, saying well, you know, my lungs aren't acting the way they should, or I'm not feeling the way I should because I know my body. And that's what can help with early detection.

Speaker 2: 2:58:14

Which early detection with cancer is what's going to save you over not doing anything, yeah, over an extended period of time and not wanting treatment so, speaking of preventive maintenance on cancer, now that you've gone through the ringer and gone everything, is there anything that people can do that you've have found during your process of going through? Are there tests? Are there scenario? I mean, besides watching your body and being in tune with it, what, what can people do?

Speaker 1: 2:58:48

hunter seven is a non-profit out of rhode island. Okay, um chelsea does a great job, and her husband kyle. They get a blood test done for veterans okay that blood test shows markers for early cancer signs interesting, and some guys don't want to take it because nobody wants to know something.

Speaker 1: 2:59:12

Something's wrong with them so like such the wrong mind, every guy who's been deployed or every guy who's been in the military should take that blood test. And I think what they do they help raise money because at some events they have like the free blood draw. I did an event down in arlington national cemetery. They had me as like a guest speaker on a panel, um, and they were doing the blood draws there, okay, and guys were getting results of oh I'm an early warning sign for colon cancer. But, like dude, if you know that early, it is going to save your, it is going to save your life.

Speaker 2: 2:59:46

A hundred percent. So you'd recommend. You said it's Hunter seven, hunter seven. Yeah, I'll get all the links from you and we'll make sure we take them. And then your other buddies, organization, um, who did? Did you speak of, or was that the same one? No, your green brave buddy. I thought you spoke of one before. Oh, um, uh, brothers, keeper brothers, okay, yeah, and hunter seven, we'll make sure we get yours.

Speaker 2: 3:00:09

But I mean, if that doesn't make any sense, like why, if these guys are providing a blood test and you, you can get a blood test that's going to give you any early signs, I mean why, why would you not do that? So yeah, I mean I would definitely want to look into that. So I guess, in closing man, everything you've been through the trials, tribulations, the peaks, the valleys what is one word of advice for veterans, law enforcement or anybody else that's in the early stages of cancer? I mean, what is what's one word of advice for veterans, law enforcement or anybody else that's in the early stages of cancer? I mean, what is what's one advice that you would like to give and spread out for everybody?

Speaker 1: 3:00:45

I'd say for anybody going through cancer that you have good days and you have bad days. If your good day is just getting out of bed and walking to the end of the hall, good day is just getting out of bed and walking to the end of the hall get after it. If your good day is going for a run or doing a workout or hiking a mountain, like go, do that. Those good days have to supersede those days laying in bed with that self-pity where you can't get out of your own head. And doing hard things physically is going to help you mentally. And that's there's proof. Like, have you ever gone to the gym and done a workout and felt like crap after?

Speaker 2: 3:01:26

Well, I mean, if you work out with my buddy, yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:01:29

But I mean like your endorphins going like you get the blood flowing like you feel good. Every time you're like I don't want to go on a run, I hate. Every time I go on a run I feel like a million bucks after I hate doing it.

Speaker 1: 3:01:40

While I'm doing it, or doing that bike ride or whatever, um, you feel great. And another thing that helps is sharing your story. Sharing my story has helped a lot of people, because it's either helped them with some knowledge or it's helped motivate them in some way. Yeah, and I'll never call myself a motivational speaker, but if my story motivates you, then that's awesome yeah absolutely. I'm just sharing my story because if it's going to help, I'll tell it a thousand times and why why not?

Speaker 2: 3:02:15

yeah I feel, if more especially men yeah, women feel completely different. They listen, they know what's going on, they're built with us as men, yeah we're dumb, stubborn, dumb as rocks like so.

Speaker 2: 3:02:30

We don't want. We want to fight everything. We want to be stubborn about it all. But if you hear other men speaking about their experiences, their situations, what they could have done in early stages, something as simple as getting on to hunter 7 and getting a blood test, listen to the people that have gone through and have walked the path that, yeah, we're potentially about to go into as we get older.

Speaker 2: 3:02:53

Listen and so, yeah, I'm with you, man. I wish more men were able to be vulnerable and tell their stories and traumas and things that they've gone through and problems that they've overcome, because it just it helps other guys be able to relate to even younger generation. I'm sure women can too, but us as men, we are very stubborn and we want to fight everything. That's how I'm especially built that way, and then when you hear the guys talk about it, you might oh shit, man, yeah that's how I'm especially built that way.

Speaker 1: 3:03:18

And then when you hear the guys talk about it, you might oh shit, man, yeah, that's not that bad people that battle cancer. And veterans and cops you see a cop in the room, you're gonna go talk to the cop, or vets, you're gonna gravitate towards people like yourself for sure, sometimes right for sure and if, like I've done, cancer trips with Senate Foundation First Descents, we'll do ice climbing, skiing, and I've met up with a group of strangers from around the country, even Canada. Everyone's story is the same, but it's a little different.

Speaker 1: 3:03:48

Absolutely you do a veteran's trip. Everyone's story is the same but a little different. But there's that, I guess, therapy in that, because I was lacking that. Going through my treatment I I saw a bullshit psycho psychiatrist, a psychologist from the city, because I thought I needed to talk to somebody, because I thought it was the right thing, and the guy was like I just was not a fan of him at all. Um, he was the same guy that the city hired to give our in-service about mental health and he says oh, police are the number one people that commit suicide. I said that's a lie. That's not true. We're like 0.2% of the population. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:04:33

It's blue collar workers are number one because they're the it's true and they're the majority for sure. So I'm like this guy's giving false information and you know he's just whatever, like he pissed me off.

Speaker 2: 3:04:44

But going with a group for five days to go skiing and then have a campfire and sit with these people and listen to their stories, I'm like, yeah, like same shit like it helps, yeah, so you're able to bond with somebody that has gone through, because I'm sure it's hard to have a buddy over and you're telling them they cut out my chunks of my lung.

Speaker 2: 3:05:04

I got a hole cut in my brain and yeah I'm missing a nut and they're like, oh yeah, but but then when you're sitting with somebody like me too, yeah, oh shit, how was your surgery? And so how big's your scar? It? It helps connect, and I've seen it for years with the vet. That's why we did so many incredible group retreats, because there might be that one guy that can relate to somebody else and I'm all for it. Man, I, I think it's a, it's an. We need to check our pride. Yeah, start asking for help. Reach out to the programs that are offering it.

Speaker 1: 3:05:34

Yeah, with I mean there's groups on facebook. I'm on a CML site on Facebook where I check in and sometimes I'll post stuff like videos and I had a guy reach out to me and I helped him out. Like you could go put a fake you know name on there and just say like, say your story, because if you don't want to be identified, it's sometimes it's easy to talk to a stranger, Absolutely Cause you're not judged, not judged.

Speaker 2: 3:05:58

We're not worried about being judged. Well, if people want to reach out and contact you. You've gone through a lot. You've overcome even more. How do they?

Speaker 1: 3:06:07

get ahold of you. So, thinbluerideorg, my email's on there, my phone number's even on there, unless I get a ton of spam. I'll have to figure that out. But yeah, reach out. Uh, we have thin blue ride on instagram. Um, my personal one is dage 22. I just try and post the stuff I do. I started recently using an axiom machine. You put distilled water in it.

Speaker 1: 3:06:31

It uh gives out hydrogen so I've been breathing in hydrogen and that's gotten rid of my wheeze that I've had interesting like when I breathe in like you'd hear it a wheeze. I started using that a couple hours a day. It's gone interesting so these guys sent me a machine for free for like 60 days because I told them my story and they were like we want to help. They sent it, I used it and then I recently bought it because I'm like if it works I'm gonna use, going to use it, so stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 3:06:57

So you, have a lot of resources. I feel Just this quick conversation when I say quick as we hit three hours.

Speaker 2: 3:07:03

This quick conversation. So, yeah, so we're going to tag all of your stuff Books on Amazon, books on Amazon. Check it out. I appreciate your time, man. I appreciate you coming to Idaho. Yeah, it's been awesome experience a little bit of this and it's it's a huge thank you from all of us and I know the guys listening yeah, just the resources. You put out some of your life experience, which is pretty awesome, and I'd say now you said it earlier that you felt like you didn't have quite the life resume resume and I'm like I would say yours is uh, so you filled up several pages on that so.

Speaker 2: 3:07:37

So you know I'm good in the bad it's it's.

Speaker 1: 3:07:39

You've definitely got some stories, so I get. I get a thank you as well. So this one, my team leader, is a former Marine. Okay. Awesome Sniper. His knife company is called Hawk Tooth Knives. Hawk Tooth Knives yeah, so I had to make this neck knife this.

Speaker 2: 3:08:01

He's got the ega on it. Yep, hawk, tooth knives, huh, damn this thing. He's got the wild chaos logo on there. That's what I'm talking about, dude. Thank you, tell him. Thank you very much. You said he's a sniper. Yeah, he was a sniper in the marines.

Speaker 1: 3:08:17

How do we get him on the show? He you said he's a sniper. Yeah, he was a sniper in the Marines. How did we get him on the show he currently makes. He does a lot of stuff. He does kitchen knives, custom stuff, yeah, Frigging battle axes, you name it. He's been doing it since he was a kid and he has some really cool stuff.

Speaker 2: 3:08:38

And yeah, he actually I think he makes the graduates of the sniper school, marine scores, sniper school uh, he makes their knives as a graduate really. Yeah, dude, tell him thank you, we'll reach out, but I would love to get him on.

Speaker 2: 3:08:43

Yeah, that would be. It'd be a great episode. So well, thank you for this dude, I I appreciate it. And uh, again thank you for everything in the conversation. This was great. You're hopefully, if it reaches one person that that's to listen to this, maybe reach out and get some testing done. If we can help one person get ahead of the game early mission accomplished, I'm cool with it Again, thank you. Thanks, brother, I appreciate your time. This was great. It was awesome, okay.