#73 - Catching A Ride With Drug Smugglers to Ex-Cons: The Truth About Hitchhiking America w/Luke Whyte

What happens when you put your thumb out and trust America? Luke Whyte is finding out as he hitchhikes across the country, documenting conversations with strangers in an ambitious project to bridge our growing cultural divides.

With years of hitchhiking experience spanning multiple continents, Luke brings a unique perspective to understanding human connection. His current journey is motivated by a troubling observation: Americans increasingly live in digital bubbles that amplify our differences while obscuring our shared humanity. By hitchhiking between rides with strangers from all walks of life, he creates a space for genuine connection that transcends political boundaries.

The stories Luke shares during our conversation are both harrowing and profound. From nearly being murdered by a meth-addicted ex-convict to accidentally joining a drug smuggling operation in Central America, his adventures reveal the extraordinary situations that arise when you open yourself to the unknown. Yet despite occasional danger, Luke's experiences overwhelmingly demonstrate people's fundamental decency.

Perhaps most surprising are Luke's insights about who stops to help strangers. Middle-class Americans prove most likely to offer rides, while both the extremely wealthy and those in severe poverty tend to pass him by—though for very different reasons. These patterns reveal deeper truths about trust, empathy, and community across American society.

Luke's journey isn't just outward exploration but also personal healing. He candidly discusses his struggles with substance abuse, which developed while working remotely for a high-pressure tech startup. His current project provides space for reflection while creating meaningful connections that counteract the isolation of modern life.

Follow Luke's ongoing adventures through "American Awe" on Youtube and social media and witness firsthand how hitchhiking might help heal a divided nation—one ride at a time.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lukewhyte/#
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@americanawe
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@american-awe

Chapters

• 0:00 Luke's Terrifying Campsite Story
• 17:42 Hitchhiking to Bridge Division in America
• 43:31 Tackling Substance Abuse and Finding Balance
• 1:04:30 Drug Smuggling Adventure in Central America
• 1:42:18 The Social Divide and Finding Commonality
• 2:30:10 The Hitchhiker's Guide to Safety and Trust

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

And it was getting. It was kind of getting kind of dark. I should have picked up the cues. This guy pulls over, I jump in, I'm like I'll ride with him. So we just start driving like zigzagging, zigzagging, zigzagging up. Then he goes oh man, you know, I spent 10 years in San Quentin. We go back to my camp, we can cook some dinner. When we get there it's already complete dark and it's just the two of us and he. He actually strangled his twin brother to death.

Speaker 1: 0:22

You're in camp with this dude in the middle of the mountains, in the middle of the mountains and I had like this tent which is called like a Hennessy hammock. So I go to sleep and like after about a couple hours, like this flashlight beam just goes vroom and it just centers on me. I was reaching for it. I remember I had like a pocket knife, Like I was definitely panicking, Definitely panic, let's go, dude Luke.

Speaker 2: 1:01

Yeah, you ready.

Speaker 1: 1:03

I'm as ready as I can be on three hours of sleep in the back of a Toyota RAV4.

Speaker 2: 1:09

Yeah, which is pretty ready, which we're going to get to First. I got a shirt for you, america's Tight. They're a veteran-owned company and I know you could probably use one. You've been hiking around the US right now and so I feel you probably are pretty scarce on clothes the U? S right now, and so I feel you probably are pretty scarce on clothes. We're also going to send you out of here with a fresh baked sourdough loaf from the girls, from the bakery, from the sour B. The girls crush it, they actually. That's why, when you came in, it was such chaos today downstairs, because we just had a big bake day. We had a bunch. Yeah, we, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:38

So thank you. Yeah, the t-shirt. Yeah, that'll be put immediately to use. Yeah, veteran-owned company. It's called.

Speaker 2: 1:44

Yup Clothing. There are a couple of vets, something I do on here as a podcast. No matter how big we get, I'll always support our veteran law enforcement obviously me being a vet, so law enforcement veterans if they have apparel companies, small businesses is really what I want to be able to promote.

Speaker 1: 2:08

So if I could just do that and give them a little shout out and give out some swag to guests, it's the least I feel we can do for the men and women that are out there serving our country. So that's great and the slogan is great yeah, all right, like it's kind of cuts the middle line, not to go off on a tangent immediately, but it's like weird to be patriotic now in this country that a flag like dictates who you are, but for some reason that expression just seems like.

Speaker 2: 2:23

It's just like yeah, america's tight, it is man, america's tight to a lot of people that don't have never even been here too. You've traveled, your experience you're, I've been all over the world and there's a lot of people that would give up everything and have lost everything just for the opportunity to come here. I think we're a pretty tight country. So if I could sports bets doing it, okay, bro, let me give a little intro of what I have gathered off of you. Okay, you started back in pro what 2005 correct me in numbers just hitchhiking, just as your school projects got into it. You got into. You were kind of doing the snowboard or ski scene on the east coast, built some little films and it kind of caught traction back in the day, kind of sparked something within you about the hitchhiking side of things. Yep, over the years you have hitchhiked all over South America, all over the U S. I mean, you've got some really cool places that you have visited. And now what you're doing and this is what sparked my interest from you and anybody listening we this is the first time you and I have even ever met. You're literally hitchhiking around America right now. I saw a video of you that was kind of going viral and I saw that there were Idaho state police. I messaged you. You're like hey, I'm on the way. Now.

Speaker 2: 3:35

What you're doing, which I just love the concept of, is you're hitchhiking around America to be able to showcase what and who's out there and what, what America has to offer. In a way, you're just spotlighting Americans that are giving you a ride, in a way. So I'm gonna let you dive into it, but I, from what I have gathered, you're, you're. You sit down and you talk to these people. You're able to get a little bit of their story, which I love. That's the whole reason I even launched this podcast is just to sit down and have a conversation with individuals that most people I don't even know, and it brings me so much joy. So when I saw you doing this, I was like, okay, we got to connect, so fill in the pieces. You could correct anything I just butchered for you.

Speaker 1: 4:17

No, I mean, that was that was. That was pretty good for like only having read the little blurb I wrote down okay uh the yeah, okay, so kind of the short version of what this project is.

Speaker 1: 4:28

You have a water beside you too if you need anything. Is the why comes from? Yeah, and we can get into like, where this idea came up from, but the what at the moment is that, yes, I'm basically the plan is to hitchhike large swaths of the USs, so I'm kind of picking, like a big chunk of the west coast, uh, then a big chunk of the east coast and uh, yeah, I mean just walking basically on the side of the road, thumb out, get picked up by people and, um, I think because it feels like there's just been this increase in like division and distrust. You know, in the country, which I personally I think comes a lot from.

Speaker 1: 5:16

There's a lot of reasons. It's obviously something super complex, but one of the reasons no doubt something to do with like living almost through a digital reality. Something to do with like living almost through a digital reality. Like my last job was completely remote and my entire and always overworked and almost my entire life was through two rectangles, like literally my reality was through those rectangles, and what's behind those rectangles is like a machine that's distorting what I see.

Speaker 2: 5:38

Everything.

Speaker 1: 5:39

To try to play up my like central nervous system.

Speaker 2: 5:42

You know Dwarfins, yeah, just the attention economy Right For sure.

Speaker 1: 5:46

And so I feel like we're in this weird place and hitchhiking provides this opportunity to just meet with a random sample of people and, yeah, just like talk about our commonalities, like what's happening in your life, what's going on. Also, talk about this issue itself and what other people think about it, and hopefully, the longer term goal is that other people might be able to educate me in. Are there any kind of anecdotes to this problem? Like what direction should we be going? What things can we do to improve the circumstance? And honestly, it's kind of selfish too. Like I want that. I'm, like I want to be done with this project and go back home and be like okay, these are some things I want to incorporate in, you know, my life and with my wife, absolutely, which anybody should.

Speaker 2: 6:35

if you're, if you're learning, yeah, and if you're in the amount of people that you're having conversation with, you're taking in all kinds of opinions, perspectives, thoughts, beliefs. I mean I'm sure you have heard a lot on the road, yeah. But then you get the nitpick. You get to pick from that and be like, okay, this guy really stood. I watched one video and you thought the guy potentially was going to kill you.

Speaker 1: 6:55

The one that was from way back in time.

Speaker 2: 6:57

Yeah, yeah, and I'm watching you're like what could go wrong, but then this is just old man. Takes you to the most amazing view of this valley.

Speaker 1: 7:04

Yeah, he, I mean, that is this interesting thing too. Like I have this hunch not everyone, but a lot of people that will pick you up hitchhiking. They're looking for someone to talk, like talk to. There's something on their mind. I don't know if it's like subconscious or not. I can't. I can't prove this but it is interesting how people will pick you up and all of a sudden they'll just start talking about oh, I'm having this issue with my wife or her. You know I'm, I'm I recently found out I've been diagnosed with x or y, and that's kind of intense because I'm not a therapist. But at the same time, I do think there's something going on there. You know where people want to.

Speaker 2: 7:47

Yeah I'm not trained, certified, but what is a therapist? Right, you're just somebody that's sitting there listening you talk about your problems, but that's all it takes. Yeah, just somebody with an open ear.

Speaker 1: 7:57

Yeah, and they just want to have a conversation and to your point, that guy who, yeah, like I think he was kind of blind to how he was, this was in rural Idaho I had just left Well, let's just call it North Central because I can't remember the town Grangeville I just left Grangeville, idaho, and yeah, it was kind of getting close to dark. He pulls over, he shouts like get in, get in get in which usually there's much more.

Speaker 1: 8:23

you know kind of a transaction where we're trying to figure out you know, hey, what's your deal, what's my deal. But he just called me to get in and he had a reason for that, which was there's no really any space to pull over. So I just kind of had to make a snap decision I get in and he's like I don't really want to be filmed much, you have some time. I want to take you in another direction and show you something, and then just yeah, just starts driving me up into the mountains and I just don't look through your mind at this point though well, I'm trying to assess right.

Speaker 1: 8:54

One of the things was he was quite old. He was like in his he said he was 83 and and so, yeah, I mean really trying to rationalize, like what could happen here. And if he has a gun there's not much I can do. I'm not armed, but short of a gun, I might be able to get out of the car and get away from this guy. Now run him. Yeah, now run him, you know. But yeah, I mean, like you said, he kept doing these things. He kept saying I'll take care of you, and then he was saying I'll take care of you, and then he was saying I'll take care of you and touching my knee and I was like, oh no, this is starting to creep me out a little bit, okay, which, in retrospect, is just someone not understanding how they were coming across. I genuinely think it was like you mentioned. He really loves that part of Idaho and he knows about this secret back country and it is gorgeous up there.

Speaker 1: 9:47

You know, these views are just so dramatic and he's, I think, fairly lonely. I mean, he implied that, you know, and he wanted to share something that he loves with someone that he met, and I think he was almost kind of being like quasi-fatherly, like. He kept being like are you getting the footage you need? Are you getting the footage you need? Are you getting the footage you need, even though I'm 40, you know? You know, that was I think that, and eventually I started to realize that it was like oh yeah, this is a, this is someone who just really wants to share something, but it's also it's so easy to he's just interpret.

Speaker 2: 10:17

Yeah, and I think we, we automatically want to go to that right? The oh god's creepy, yeah, or he's looking at me weird, but in reality everyone's just a little odd and you don't know what angle they're coming from. But that's why you just spark a conversation and here you are Then. Then you get to see the genuine side of this older man that just he just wants to show you his little slice of heaven.

Speaker 1: 10:39

Yeah, honestly, with hitchhiking I think I think it depends. There's a gender factor and so I'm talking as a man. As a woman, I think there's a whole other category of like concerns to think about. Okay, but as a man, I think the likelihood that something is going to happen to you is probably not that different than if you like live in, let's say I don't know brooklyn, and you walk home at night okay like there's.

Speaker 1: 11:05

and if that does happen, by way, my guess is, it's not going to be the guy who looks creepy, it's going to be the total sociopath who completely convinces you that he's a nice guy and the next thing you know, you know he's doing whatever horrible stuff.

Speaker 2: 11:16

it is to that person.

Speaker 1: 11:17

But I think that that's a really tiny, small outlier, like the vast majority of people are. Yeah, I mean, they're just human beings, right?

Speaker 2: 11:26

Absolutely Well, because there's been this stigma against hitchhiking for a long time, Forever right. There was like a campaign against it. Yes, I remember commercials I think like don't pick up hitchhikers, yeah, but at the same time there's a lot of reasons you don't pick up hitchhikers, but at the same then there's the other side where, yeah, it's just someone just needs a ride it makes a difference to um.

Speaker 1: 11:51

So having done this for a while, like I've learned there's like context cues, so like what I'm wearing makes a huge difference with this project. I have like the gopro actually coming out of the top of a baseball cap. People can see that, they can see that um, they can generally see that like I mean, I'm wearing jorts of it. I got like nice. You know, I usually try to wear like nice-ish shirts at least. Like I keep either fully shaved or if I, if I'm not fully shaved, like I am now, like I'll trim tight before I go out so it looks like I've, you know, manicured my hair. You find that type of stuff helps. I think, consistently, over and over again, like at least half the rides I get, people are like I never pick up hitchhikers I never. But you look different because you just don't see that many people. But then there's other context cues that you can't control. So like, let's say, northern Washington. I didn't wait more than two minutes coming across the Cascades because everyone is just like oh my God, you're on an adventure. At some point I'm going to be in West Virginia and then it's going to be like that guy's a meth head. You know it's a different. You know like people take cues from their environment.

Speaker 1: 12:58

I was trying to say that I had a lot of an issue yesterday. I was trying to say that I had a lot of an issue yesterday. Up until yesterday, I don't think I'd waited more than 20 minutes a half hour between rides, really it depends on I take time to get myself to the spot sometimes. So, like you know, there might be like a half hour walking, an hour or something, but by the time I actually would put my thumb out. Yeah, probably not longer than a half hour. Interesting, except for yesterday where I waited four and a half hours, which was, um, which part of Oregon were you in yesterday? The Yakima basin? Okay?

Speaker 2: 13:35

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:35

So I came out of Yakima and there's a small town right after you enter the reservation. There it's like it begins with a T, but I'm not really sure. But I was just having, I could not get picked up and finally this local kid did pick me up and took me to the edge of town and he told me he's like we have this, we have a pretty big drug and homeless problem in in this area, and so that that kind of makes sense. Right, you people, people, are trying to make a snap judgment of you and immediately, and also, even if they they really have to be sure, like they might think to themselves oh he looks like some guy on adventure, but he might still be a meth head, and so then they still don't pick you up.

Speaker 2: 14:16

You know, yeah, yeah, have you had a large number of people pull over and then you shoot their pitch and they, they deny it, or once they learn who you are, what you're doing, it's, it's a pretty easy done. Deal, it's a pretty easy done deal.

Speaker 1: 14:28

Yeah, I haven't had anyone deny me. I've, like, I've rejected a couple that were already. There was a guy the other day who pulled over and then, like he ran out of his car because he saw like a plastic carton on the ground, that was like, and he was grabbing that. And I was like, oh, did you pull over for me? And he goes, well, how far are you going? And I was like I'm going all the way down, yakima, and he was just like, well, I might have space. And that's just like a no, you know, I don't know, I don't know what that is. But yeah, yeah, I'm not getting in the car.

Speaker 2: 15:03

Yeah, yeah, Okay. So that's the other side of it. I mean, how often are you reading people when they pull over and they're like hey boy, and they're like sit there playing with their little belly button, like get on in?

Speaker 1: 15:13

That's what the trouble is. That's how this project gets Well, that's well. Combining what I'm trying to do with trying to assess safety does become tricky For sure, because there's a hunger on my part and that curiosity side of me takes over where I'm like what's this guy all about? I want his story. Yeah, I want to know what's going on here. So you had mentioned, you know, I'm not new to having like. Yes, like. When I was coming out of college was the first time I hitchhiked with a video camera from Alaska down to Costa Rica over the course of a period of time.

Speaker 1: 15:48

But later, years later, I was working for a like a group of magazines out of California, like online magazines called police one and corrections onecom, and so I through this. I was like being an editor for corrections onecom, I kind of got this good relationship with a lot of people working in the correctional system and California was kind of a mess situation with prisons at the time. Still it's even worse, yeah. And I came up with this idea of you know I want to write these human interest short stories where I'll go back and forth I'll interview like a prisoner or parolee and then I'll interview a correctional officer or a warden and just try to do this back and forth, back and forth.

Speaker 1: 16:28

This was like mid, early 20s and I was able to get a little bit of money to it through like a local organization in San Francisco.

Speaker 1: 16:38

I mean it was like 1,500 bucks, but I was like that's enough you know, but I realized I wasn't gonna be able to get into the prisons very easily just because I tried and the correctional they were just shutting me down every corner. It was like six months you're gonna have to wait. Then when you do, you'll have to walk onto the yard with someone and talk. It just wasn't gonna work, you know, and I remembered, oh well, like when I'd hitchhiked in the past, you do tend to meet a lot of people who might've been like parolees. You know, particularly if you choose the area and the central Valley of California, a lot of poverty, a lot of issues there's. There's a good chance that you'll come across that.

Speaker 1: 17:13

So that became the strategy. Was I would I set up these interviews with correctional officers throughout California and then I would hitchhike between them to try to talk to parolees? And so right at the beginning of the project I was like super hungry for a good story and I was in Humboldt County, oh God, and it was getting, it was kind of getting kind of dark and uh, this guy pulls over in this, this like it looked like a Jeep, and I run up and again he's got like this thick, thick, long white beard, you know, long hair. He's kind of scraggly looking, you know, and he's kind of scraggly looking, you know, and you can kind of tell he's living in the back of the van, because he's kind of, you know, worked it out and uh and he's like oh, where are you going?

Speaker 1: 17:49

I don't know. So I I jump in, I'm like I'll ride with him, I give him my spiel and, like I'm trying to people you know been in prison, he goes oh man, you know, I spent 10 years in san quentin and uh, I was like oh you like? Well, would you be interested in sharing your story? And the reason I'm talking about this is you're talking, you know, about the eagerness to succeed in the project. I should have picked up the cues. He was like well, if you want to. Like he kept talking about his girlfriend, who I found out later was actually a girlfriend from the past. Like she didn't. He says if we go back to my camp, we can cook some dinner and we can do this story. And I I'm from, I went to high school up in Maine and up there a camp is like a cabin. I guess that's not universally, I don't know. The whole country doesn't do that, but I just in my head.

Speaker 2: 18:35

I assume I'm from upstate New York.

Speaker 1: 18:39

You say camp, we're going to go to this place, me and this guy and his girlfriend are going to eat some food and I'm going to interview him. I think I just let myself believe that what turned out was he was like living out of the van up in the mountains in Trinity County. So we just start driving like zigzagging, zigzagging, zigzagging up and he's just living at a campsite and we get there, it's already complete dark and it's just the two of us and I. I start asking him about what he went to prison for and, uh, he had been a, a meth head and severe alcoholic and so had his, uh, twin brother and he actually strangled his twin brother to death.

Speaker 2: 19:17

And you're in camp with this dude in the middle of the mountains, middle of mountains.

Speaker 1: 19:21

I don't know if I've ever been more so okay, first thing that went through your head when you fight this guy, you're.

Speaker 2: 19:23

I don't know if I've ever been more so Okay, first thing that went through your head when you fight this guy, you're like I don't know, just like skip.

Speaker 1: 19:28

And I pushed him because he didn't say what the crime was at first. And so I was kind of like you know, we're softening up, we're building a rapport, and then I kind of pushed him.

Speaker 2: 19:45

I was like you, you know, oh, yeah, yeah, okay, and so he tells me this story. He was pretty genuine. Did he like get into details about it?

Speaker 1: 19:51

Yeah, are you shitting your pants at this point? Yeah, yeah, you know, at the moment not as much. I'll get to the point where I basically I'm surprised I didn't crap in my pants, okay, because that came a couple hours later. But like a couple hours later, but like, really, at that moment I there was something really genuine in his like how horrible he felt about it. Like I didn't.

Speaker 1: 20:09

I kind of felt at that moment like it's most likely the case that this guy didn't mean to do this. He, he talked about, like you know, they had, uh, they they would get, like you know, like seizures from withdrawal from alcohol. I mean they were, they were in pretty deep and they were taking a lot of meth. And he said they would just fight and fight and fight. And actually when I afterwards went to verify this story, like I looked up records, like yeah, there were actually I found like police reports so they'd stabbed each other before you know, like him and his brother had this bizarre, I think, just kind of, you know, they're not living in, they're living in a distorted reality situation A lot of people do. And the way that he told me that it happened is him and his brother were fighting, and this is where he just I'm taking him at face value you know, but he was so mad at his brother that he was like shut up, shut up, shut up.

Speaker 1: 20:56

And then he actually fell asleep, passed out next to his brother, didn't realize his brother was dead until he woke up in the morning in his telling, you know, all I know for sure is that like I found the records as far as I could see, that like he did kill his brother, you know, like that this that's what he went to um, that's what he went to prison for, um. And so he tells me the story and it's like okay, and I'm I sort of get tired, like really quick, I think, just like the adrenaline and like dropping out from like just everything that's happening. And I had like this tent which is called like a Hennessy hammock. It's a tent hammock. Oh yeah, those are awesome.

Speaker 1: 21:33

Yeah, awesome normally, but once you get in it in your sleeping bag, you're in it. You can only get out of one thing, like either I get out of the sleeping bag and I'm still in the hammock, or I get out of the hammock, then I'm just rolling around like a worm on the ground in the sleeping bag so I go to go to go to sleep and a couple hours pass by and he's just tinkering in the van, tinkering, tinkering, tinkering, tinkering.

Speaker 1: 21:54

You could hear this, I could hear this. And then like after about a couple hours, like this flashlight beam just goes over my, my, uh, my tent, mind you, I've set my tent, mind you, I've set my tent up like considerable distance from him, so it's not like we're, he's not gonna randomly, you know, stumble across you, and then the flashlight goes back and it just centers on me and then I can tell he's walking up to the up to my tent hammock.

Speaker 2: 22:21

How bad is your heart just ripping out of your chest? I?

Speaker 1: 22:24

was and it was, and it was. It was like I was reaching for. I remember I had like a pocket knife in my pocket. You know what I mean, like. But what if this guy's prepared? I'm not doing jack shit like a swiss army knife. But what was interesting is afterwards I realized I was like kneading my chest with the other hand, like I was definitely panicking. You know, yeah, sure, yeah, and he comes over. He stands right over me. It's the tent's got this like fly mesh on top. He's like smoking a cigarette and he just. The first thing he says is the worst part was having to tell my mom, when my mom, you know, just looking in her eyes and he just starts telling me more information and I'm just like uh-huh, uh-huh your tent zipped up he's ashing.

Speaker 1: 23:04

He's ashing, it's hitting the tent. I'm so freaked out I'm like not even stopping him, you know. And he did this the whole night long and the things got weirder and weirder, where, by almost in the morning, he was talking about how he talks to God and like God is like a voice that he speaks to. I'm pretty sure he was On meth, definitely. I mean, it's like no question, yeah. And I remember, finally, when the sun was coming up, I was like okay, if this guy was going to murder me, he would have done it in the dark. So when the next time he came over, I was just like Gary, you got to leave me alone. Like I have to sleep a couple hours. Did you sleep at?

Speaker 2: 23:42

all that night? No, not at all. And the sun came up.

Speaker 1: 23:45

I slept for about two hours packed up. He had to drive me back to the road. We were so far up I had to get driven down to the main road by him. The car wouldn't start and I was like, if it doesn't start, I was like I'm walking the 15, 20 miles, I don't care, man Like.

Speaker 2: 23:58

I am out of here you.

Speaker 1: 24:00

You know, and I get he. The car did start. He took me down to the road. We part ways and I feel really bad for the next guy who picked me up. There was just this dude in a pickup truck who was just like enjoying his day, picks me up and I unload this story on him and I'm pretty sure I convinced him that I was crazy serial murderer because I'm just like telling him this story and he's just like just driving home.

Speaker 2: 24:21

He doesn't say a word like never again, never again.

Speaker 1: 24:25

So yeah, that balance. Yeah, I mean it was a very long answer to the question, but that's a tricky balance.

Speaker 2: 24:31

You, know For sure that is a great story.

Speaker 1: 24:32

It's like wanting to pursue the story, but also wanting to be saved. That's the most scared. I've ever been with it and I put myself in that situation.

Speaker 2: 24:40

That's your worst encounter on the road I've had.

Speaker 1: 24:43

I think I can wrap four things that have been really scary. There's that there was a time when I mentioned I did that first trip down from Alaska. I was coming out of Prince George, british Columbia, beautiful, and this yeah, beautiful, this pickup truck pulls over. I get in and I'm'm like this is just me doing bad, I was just getting so comfortable. I've been doing it every day like I. I just I got in, I closed the door first and ever since that I've never done this.

Speaker 1: 25:15

I like have a full conversation with the person before I, you know. But I just got in and then I was like, hey, how's it going? Blah, blah, doesn't say a word, like he just starts driving. And I was like, hey, how's it going? Blah, blah, blah, doesn't say a word, like he just starts driving. And I was like, okay, you know, this is that's already a little uncomfortable. And I start telling him about what I'm doing, like trying to make conversation, and he's not saying anything. And I start trying to evaluate the situation and like the windows in the truck don't go up. There's like ants running along the dashboard. He running along the dashboard. He's got long, rough hair, his he's not wearing shoes. He has like what looks like like felt or something like carpet wrapped around his feet. What the hell is going on here.

Speaker 2: 25:54

I believe all of this because people are.

Speaker 1: 25:56

So I have I have video of this guy. I do have. I took it out. I was literally me being like you're gonna want to get the camera. The footage is terrible, but like, if you get the little snips, because I'm kind of like this. You know, like I'm like because I was really afraid and I told him what I was doing and then he just starts laughing this like quasi maniacal, like he's like, and I just at that point I was so fucking scared.

Speaker 1: 26:22

Sorry, I don't know, just be swearing do whatever you want and uh, I faked a stomach bug and like I just was like oh, oh god, I gotta I gotta get out, man, I gotta get out.

Speaker 1: 26:32

And he, he pulled over, got out. And then the thing that threw me off was I was like, thank you, have a good day, and he goes, thanks bye. He spoke after he dropped me off, so I don't know what happened there. I don't know what happened. I almost stopped that right. Then I walked to like a tim hortons nearby and unloaded this story on these waitresses and they were just like what are you doing? You?

Speaker 2: 26:57

know you shouldn't do that.

Speaker 1: 26:59

so those are the two scary. The other two I want to hear all of them Were like, like sexual in nature.

Speaker 2: 27:09

Okay, so I was going to get there eventually. We'll get here now, yeah, cause there's a movie you hear about rules of the road, right? I don't know what movie it was Gears, don't help, yeah, walk around in George's on the side of the highway.

Speaker 1: 27:22

Honestly, I think because I'm older now it's a little better.

Speaker 2: 27:27

But that early 20s shit. I feel like, oh, you are a snack, I'm a truck driver, you're sure. You're sure I was going to get there Eventually. This podcast would have got brought up at the moment. So the rules of the road, let's talk about this.

Speaker 1: 27:42

There's been a few cases cases not on this trip, yet once at all which I. I don't know if I it might be applied to age.

Speaker 2: 27:48

To be honest with you almost a little offended because you're not gonna like what the hell you? Know like gonna go shave and do some push-ups and I throw a little cologne on there have been a few cases where, like your wife's, like I don't know, no dudes hit on me out there.

Speaker 1: 28:05

There have been a few cases where like that were. I think that was what was going on, but it was very respectful, Like they were very quick to talk about their sexuality and then I would, I would quickly talk about mine, and then that was it and I'll never know.

Speaker 2: 28:20

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:20

Because if it was, it was just a very respectful person who was trying to see is this a thing? There were two times where that was not the case. The first one, yeah, this guy up in Alaska. So this was right at the beginning of when I so I should say, because how did I start doing this? Well, maybe we'll get to it later, yeah, but so I start doing this.

Speaker 2: 28:44

Well, maybe we'll get to it later.

Speaker 1: 28:44

Yeah, but like so I I was was going up this thing, I'm trying to go up this thing called the Dalton Highway, yeah, yeah, yeah, up to, up to Prudhoe Bay, and I get picked up by this, this French tourist in a Buick Rendezvous smoking a cigarette, and yeah, I mean he was a genuinely nice, smart guy, and we are now in the car together for what's going to be like two days or so Hours and we start talking and like he brought up, you know, like that he has a boyfriend and this stuff, and I had a girlfriend at the time, stuff, and I had a girlfriend at the time.

Speaker 1: 29:28

Um, and we, you know, there was no question about sexuality, which is kind of what made this. Like I mean, the dude was respectful after he shot a shot, but fuck that dude, it was fucked up. Like, basically, we're coming back from like prudhoe bay and we're in this one area where it's just like the bears were everywhere, like I mean, we're just seeing grizzlies like and and we and we pull over because, like you know, he's super tired driving and and, um, I'm, I'm sleeping in this like bivy sack, you know, just like you know just a small little tent and he's like, look, you know, if you want to sleep in the back of the buick rendezvous tonight, like to be safe from the bears, like you can, and I took him up on it because it was a legit thing, like you know. But I know I get your point. That's why I giving him I'm giving this guy the benefit of the doubt overall.

Speaker 1: 30:14

Yeah, but yeah, what basically happened was like I can tell he was like fake snoring and like all I knew is he was like rolling closer and closer to me in the back of this big rendezvous. So eventually, like I'm turned away but then the wheel, well, gets in here. So I'm actually like pushing my ass back out to try and get in around the wheel. Well, I'm like this is uncomfortable. And he just made a move. I mean, he just put his hand around to the front of I had left my pants on and he went working to get under them and I just shouted like no, like I just shouted no, and he went like and rolled over and I was like bro, oh my.

Speaker 1: 30:53

God, we still had like five, six hours more of driving together. So, like the next day was just like, how awkward was that Painful? And I got back to. I got back to Fairbanks oh my God, this dude tried to put his hand on your pants. Yeah, I got to fairbanks and I just started this project where meanwhile I'm talking about I'm gonna be hitchhiking for a long time, you know, and I'm sitting in this hostel in fairbanks and I'm like is this over? Because like, is this what hitchhiking is? Is me just getting groped by dudes like I'm like oh so you're in the beginning of this whole adventure

Speaker 1: 31:23

and I just I remember I was so down and what was really funny was like I had this like shame, immediately, like I'm not going to talk about this. But then I'm just in hostel in front of this other young dude who was staying in the hostel and I I just unloaded the story like it just came out and he just starts laughing. He was like dude, you idiot. I mean, like you set him up and it just kind of like I don't know it broke the ice for me a little bit and I was like you know what? I'm going to keep going, like it'll be fine. And I kept going and it was fine. And that didn't happen again. And the last one was super weird, that project I was telling you about with the prison stuff.

Speaker 2: 31:58

Okay.

Speaker 1: 31:59

Literally like the second or third from last ride was this one, and it was me deciding, like I was at a point where I had the initial bit of money I'd gotten. Then I actually got some like donations to work on the project and I was like posting for some magazines and I was making a little money but still I was net negative really you know what I mean and what I was doing and it was like it was taking a toll you know, like just being out, like in central california, like looking for people who are in really tough circumstances and trying to stay with them.

Speaker 1: 32:26

So I was already getting close to maybe this thing is kind of I'm gonna gonna do something else with my life, you know. And um, uh, yeah, this I was like in visalia I think it's called california, it's like some central valley down there and, um, this dude pulls over, gets in, uh, I get in and immediately it smells like urine in the cab of this truck which was wonderful.

Speaker 2: 32:50

Weird, it just had like a strong piss smell.

Speaker 1: 32:52

Yeah and and he's like clear, this is a lot of um, uh like, farm work done by hand, so there's a lot of migrants in that area and he doesn't speak english and he clearly has like worked hard you know, he's a strong dude, like, and he's like covered in dirt. You know he's dark, he's been, he's been busting ass, you know. But he's also smelling like piss and I kind of think, maybe a little drunk like I can smell that if he's not drunk. He was drunk recent enough that you know that like.

Speaker 1: 33:23

You know that like the sweat smell you know like and stale beer and yeah, yeah I speak decent enough spanish now I did not. Then, like in texas, my wife's uh, mexicans like I've kind of got decent enough spanish now not at that point in time and we we start trying to communicate and he's trying to use the little English words he has and just what he gets across is like how do you stay clean? And I was like what do you mean? He's like on the road, how do you stay clean? And then he just starts grabbing my leg and like rubbing his hand up and down my leg. Like you're clean and I'm removing his hand and then he just keeps putting it back and moving it into the and down my leg. You're clean and I'm removing his hand and then he just keeps putting it back and moving it into the inside of my leg.

Speaker 1: 34:10

It was actually an uncomfortable. I'm not a super grappler, but I'm also not weak. Usually I can remove someone's hand fairly easily. He's like I was like this dude's fucking strong, like you know, and I was like, oh shit, like this dude might be able to overpower me, like you know, like that crosses my mind got these meat hands, these meat hands, man, you know. And like I, I managed to push him off, but he keeps trying and he's at this point he's not saying anything. And we get to the junction and he, I'm like all right, I'm getting out here. And he's like I'm coming back this way, I'll get you coming back the other way, and I'm like the fuck, you will dude and I don't know. That was just really uncomfortable. Just the whole scene, that the whole scene was uncomfortable. So that's it. I would say I always do this, like I always say I'm gonna like try to make hitchhiking sound good and then I tell my four worst horrible stories, like every time.

Speaker 2: 35:09

I mean, yeah, but I also want to get to the good parts of the people you meet and the things you've learned. I mean because you, this type of adventure that you are doing, you're dude, you're meeting everybody and everything in cultures and religions and problems and successes, and fail. I mean you get to. It's a really cool. This is what you know, not motivating me but capture me to like reach out, because I was like man, this guy gets to see it all.

Speaker 2: 35:40

Yeah so yeah, so I don't. I don't want to paint the picture of hitchhiking as bad, but at the same time you're going to have your risks out on the road.

Speaker 1: 35:46

Yeah, the bigger risks are getting hit.

Speaker 2: 35:49

Have you had really close calls of almost getting hit?

Speaker 1: 35:52

I've been pretty good about it, I think.

Speaker 2: 35:54

Because you're not hiking highways, you're hitchhiking you never go on a highway.

Speaker 1: 35:58

Even if you were going to hitch on a highway, you would try to do it from an on-ramp on a highway, you would try to do it from an on-ramp, yeah, but that's also miserable. Like, what I like to do when I do the hitchhiking is get a road where I can hike and I'm I'm moving. So it's like, okay, I feel like I have some sort of control over what I'm doing, I'm seeing new ground, I'm getting exercise, and I swear it makes a difference too. And who will pick you up or not? Like, if you're standing on a highway on ramp, I think you just ultimately look more like someone who's begging for something, whereas if you're, you know, walking at a good pace, walking backwards, you know like, thumb out, like. It's just a different dynamic. I swear it makes a difference when people make a decision about like, oh, what does this person look like? What are they doing?

Speaker 1: 36:44

But, that said, there still are moments. I mean, like most of america's infrastructure is not made for pedestrians, you know like, and yeah, just like northern, northern washington. The other day I was just crossing, crossing a bridge like this huge, long bridge which doesn't have a way to be crossed by foot and like so I was like some kid trying to cross like a train bridge and I'm just like waiting to make sure there's no big trucks and they're just like running you know, oh, yeah, yeah yeah, but the other one, excuse me, is and that hasn't happened, this hasn't happened recently, but has happened to me in the past is drunk drivers Like there've been a couple times where someone, someone is just really hammered and you're just like, oh, and one time it was a kid and he was driving really fast.

Speaker 1: 37:28

It was actually me and a friend hitchhiking together and there's just like this 17-year-old kid driving like trying to like impress us, going around corners at like 95 miles an hour in this shitty hand-me-down car he has when you're, like you can already tell the steering isn't very responsive and it's just like, dude, like we're gonna get out of your vehicle. You know, I, I swear like that's the thing you have to be more worried about is being hit. Or you know, someone being drunk as opposed to like a, a serial killer which I don't want to rule out the possibility, they exist, right, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 37:58

Yeah, but run into them walk into the park yeah sure yeah, I mean, that's just the world we live in, yeah, okay. So where did this all start for you? Yeah, I guess we blew over that. We went right into it, which I'm fine with. This is wild chaos. We can go whatever direction.

Speaker 1: 38:14

So I went to college for journalism, okay, and for a while I wanted to do war journalism. I wanted to do like I just liked, pursuing curiosities and trying to get myself like out there, you know, and that's what I want to do with career. And I took some classes in film while I was in school, just because I was like, oh, this would be, you know, something to add to even though I predominantly wanted to do written journalism, which is what I have mostly done for work Good side skill to have, though, for the photography and everything, and so it was a documentary film class and for a like a final project, we had to do some I don't know like 30 minute video or something like that and uh, my, I came up with this idea, like I liked to to to kind of ski and I also like doing like physically challenging things, you know Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 39:08

And so this idea, you know it was, it was winter in Vermont and I, like I knew how to winter done, winter camping, and my friend and I had found this backcountry mountain in New Hampshire that, like you could apparently ski some routes that were on it, you know, but you would have to hike it yourself. And and so came up with this idea like what if we just loaded our skis and like camping gear into backpacks and we tried to hitchhike from um burlington, vermont, to this spot in like north eastern new hampshire I can't remember exactly where it was. And so the two of us, I remember sitting around like having beers and being like talking about hitchhiking, being like you know, it has to be overhyped, right, it can't be that dangerous, like it's just normal people. We were kind of having this conversation and we decided together all right, we're gonna, we're gonna do this you know, that's a cool friend, that's gonna do this.

Speaker 1: 39:58

yeah, no, he bailed. I mean, well, it wasn't entirely his fault. Like he, it was something to do with school and it was my project that wasn't his, and he was like I can't do it. But then, like the day before, I was like, well, I can't do another thing now, because this is like I'm committed to this, I go out. We ended up getting New Hampshire, where I was heading, ended up getting a massive snowstorm. I can't remember how many inches of snow it was, but I do remember I borrowed a bivy sack from this like the, the school outdoor gear place, and, like I remember I woke up like four or five times during the night because I was like getting buried by the snow and it was coming down hard and that trip was unreal.

Speaker 1: 40:40

There's just this with hitchhiking. It feels like there's this, I don't know, it's like this combination between, like total self-sufficiency and total dependence on strangers. So it's like, on the one hand, you're like literally turning yourself over to whatever will happen. On the other hand, you have to be equipped for like a lot of different scenarios, particularly in the winter, like that, you know. Like you have to be able to assess people, you have to be able to cover lots of ground on foot, like that. That's. That's just a way with with significant weight, you know, because you can't just hitchhike from where you get you dropped off. It doesn't work that way.

Speaker 1: 41:13

Like you get well, because think about like a town, and then you have to walk out of the town to you get a spot where you can, you can actually hitch from, and that that adds up. That's like miles and miles over the course of a day. It's like it's just and um, you know, sometimes you're getting dropped, like next to a kfc, sometimes you're getting dropped in the middle of north cascade. So you better have a way to be able to like get to your next location, feed yourself if you have to sleep out there, you know, and like sometimes you get dropped off and and that means because you're also covering like a very variation in climate too, so you have to be ready for the rain. You probably have to be ready for the cold. I mean, it depends a little bit. You know, when I go to texas I'm not going to worry about the cold, you know, but up here it's like you have to be ready for a lot of things. It's not super cold.

Speaker 2: 42:03

This time of year, but it Well. I saw in Stanley. I mean it was like 37 degrees the other night up there. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:08

So you kind of and because I particularly also want to go to those unique areas it means being ready for that. And then also just the self-sufficiency of this, like internal when you're on the side of the road, like it feels a little bit like you're on show, like everyone is staring at you and there's this like battle, it's like a mindset thing like turn this positive. Anything that happens, it's like I'm gonna do it, it's gonna be fine, it's okay, I got dropped, it's been fine, I'm good. I've been waiting an hour and it started raining. No worries, like I love this, I love fucking rain. Let's fucking go keep smiling. And then it does.

Speaker 1: 42:47

It does turn around, and then this the next thing that happens is like you could be stalled in your own world, like that, for a long period of time and then, in like a split second, everything changes. You run up to a vehicle, you kind of. You talk to this person, you get in, you close the door and then you're just in someone else's world, going, you know, 30 to 90 miles an hour In whatever direction they're in.

Speaker 1: 43:09

Yeah, and they're talking. You're like looking and listening to their music. It smells like it smells. You look around, what do they have in their car? You know, and you're just in someone's life and yeah, like I mentioned earlier, you get sometimes you have these really interesting conversations with people. They'll tell you about what the local area and it's like this we were talking about, like the trust, distrust thing and how this kind of it is a relationship where trust, like you two are trusting each other pretty significantly and like you're in your own little kind of like bubble, almost like your safe space, like we're talking about the therapy thing. Earlier, people just say things to you because they know they're not going to say you again.

Speaker 2: 43:46

Yeah, it's the.

Speaker 1: 43:48

It's the perfect combo for somebody that needs to get something off their chest, to pick up a hitchhiker, and then you just unload all of your childhood trauma on them and you're like which definitely happens, thanks, bud, yeah, yeah, and just shake that off and then you're back on the side of the road, in like a new place and like sometimes it's like sometimes people just don't know what they're doing, like one lady that just took me on the highway coming up, actually heading up to Boise, okay, and it was the junction of, I don't know, one road splits off to Montana, one road splits off to Boise and it's in Northern Utah, and the dude was just like, oh, I'm going the other way. And he just stopped the car in the highway and I was like, dude, we're going to get hit. And then I was like, well, okay, I get out, grab my bag, and then I'm just in the highway. But more often than not it's an interesting experience. You could get dropped off and then you're in a new town or you know you're walking somewhere.

Speaker 1: 44:37

And so, going back to having that experience for the first time when I was in college, that I just found it really appealing. Like there was something, like I was having these conversations with people. We had this huge snowstorm, like I said, up in New Hampshire, and I woke up the next day and, like I'm trying to stay warm, I climbed this mountain and I skied it. And then I come out and like I just start meeting these really, really interesting people in New Hampshire and like having these these great conversations and, yeah, like the idea felt addicting. It also felt like really empowering, like I made it back in three days to to remind I did this, like you know, everyone was like how do you fucking do that I was like I just, I just did it the will and just did it, you know.

Speaker 1: 45:23

And then the thing that really tipped it off off was we had like a showcase of the films that the class did and nobody goes to that shit right. But I told a few of my friends, I told some other people and a bunch of people actually showed up to see what I'd done. And I mean, I'm not talking a lot, I must have like 20 people or something. But still, for me it was like signal. At the time I was a senior in college and I was like, do I want to go? Do I want to go be like a low end reporter? Do like, do I want to try to work for magazines? And I, just after that, I was like screw it, after college I'm going to work to save about a bit of money and then I'm going to fly to Alaska and and I'm gonna hitchhike from the arctic ocean to the bottom of argentina. That is so. That was the idea, insane goal.

Speaker 1: 46:14

And did you accomplish that goal? Not entirely. So I, I flew up to alaska, like we talked about. And, by the way, I had this like 2005, the year youtube, I think. I think came out in 2004 or something like that. Like I was just a few years too early and I'm working with the camera with, like the dv tapes I remember those you know like I've got like a back ziplocs, freezer bags, dv tapes, trying to like run this while I'm out there and um, yeah, so I made it from prudhoe bay to san francisco in the first, first stint by myself.

Speaker 2: 46:45

How long did that take, the hitchhike from Prudhoe Bay to San Francisco?

Speaker 1: 46:48

I think it was end of August till beginning of October. So like maybe five weeks. Yeah, maybe five weeks, I think, is what it was.

Speaker 2: 46:57

What was your favorite part of that trip? You said you were in Prince of Wales, prince.

Speaker 1: 47:02

George.

Speaker 2: 47:03

Prince George, which is that's beautiful, like where. Yeah, I mean, fuck dude, that's someone with some of the most beautiful country going from Alaska down.

Speaker 1: 47:10

A lot of things from that. That trip were like really that's a hard question. The Arctic tundra even still shocks me, Like when you, I would love to go up there again, Like you cross the continental divide to start heading down. It's just like it's unreal what it looks like up there.

Speaker 2: 47:27

Um how were the bugs in august up there? Were you prepared for them? I mean, I didn't have bug spray. You have a net?

Speaker 1: 47:34

face netting, you know anything like that?

Speaker 2: 47:36

yeah, you're just raw talking it yeah, the yukon was horrible for the bugs they're just like these black flies that were just like out of inhaling them, theyaling them, they're in your nose, sucking them up your nose, you know? Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:47

Just keep moving, just keep moving.

Speaker 2: 47:49

That's all you can do.

Speaker 1: 47:52

Just keep walking and moving. There were a lot of parts that were really, really interesting. Like talking a lot of conversations in British Columbia, you know, I found like the Washington coast, just like the mountains when you just come inland, that was the first time I'd ever seen giant trees. With this I mean you probably living up here in Idaho, you've more familiarity with it. Well, I guess you guys maybe don't get quite as much of the rain, right, it's so green on the coast there. Yes, like that blew me away.

Speaker 2: 48:28

Goonies, that's all you think of.

Speaker 1: 48:31

Yeah, for sure yeah, but um, all of that like northern california, like like just yeah, getting caught up, you're an east coast boy, right, right.

Speaker 2: 48:42

Right, and I had never seen. So that's an experience, especially when you start hitting like the red woods and the trees are just so massive up there.

Speaker 1: 48:50

I have this feeling like the whole the West Coast. It's just like, you know, like in the Super Mario Brothers, you would just like eat the mushroom and you would get bigger. The West Coast is just bigger in this. It's like, yeah, we have mountains, we. It's like we have mountains, we have beautiful spots, but y'all have the same thing just twice as big.

Speaker 1: 49:08

It's beautiful yeah yeah, huge coastlines with huge waves, beautiful mountains. You know like you can't beat the west coast man, honestly beautiful yeah, you're, you get to experience it like you're in it.

Speaker 1: 49:18

Yeah, um, so you make it to san francisco and I had a friend who lived in the bay, he was going to college there and we were talking because we wanted to do, we wanted to hitchhike together, to like to keep going, and I really didn't want to go down into Mexico and beyond entirely by myself. Like I could avoided it, you know, I would have done it, but like the idea of going with someone else sounded interesting, I had no idea what to expect, like was it even going to work, you know? And so he couldn't go until he finished the semester in school, and it was, I needed to work anyway. So, like I went back to Chicago, was staying with like a girl I'd been dating at the time, and I went back to this restaurant job for a little while, this restaurant job for a little while, and then, once that year finished, we made this plan in April to go meet in New Orleans and hitchhike to back to his where his school was. Oh, this, no, sorry, this was on his break. We were going to hitchhike to from New Orleans to San Francisco just to see if we didn't, like we didn't murder each other. Basically, you know, did we enjoy? Because we're going to spend every minute together.

Speaker 1: 50:24

This third friend kind of tacked along, um and me and that other guy ended up hitchhiking the entire of the central us, really. So we started in new orleans and then we went, uh, southern louisiana, texas, um, up into colorado, utah, wyoming. I think we made it to montana before we caught one Up into Colorado, utah, wyoming, I think we made it to Montana before we caught one ride like all the way across to Chicago. Then they went down through like Indiana, kentucky, I want to say West Virginia, kentucky, and then Tennessee, alabama.

Speaker 2: 51:04

And then back down to Damn. You hitchhiked all that.

Speaker 1: 51:06

All that? How long did that take? It took us a couple months.

Speaker 2: 51:11

I think.

Speaker 1: 51:12

And right at the beginning, when we left New Orleans, we passed through this town doesn't matter, but it's like right on the bayou, on the coast down there and they had these boats that supply the oil rigs out of there and someone told us they're like they'll take anyone at any time. So we had a plan. Because we've neither one of us had much money. It was like, okay, we just got to get back to New Orleans and we can get out on these Morgan city, louisiana, it's what it's coon asses down there, yeah. And so we did that. We looped around, then we went, we worked offshore and then you just got an offshore rig. You're on like that, like like zero experience, you're just out there.

Speaker 1: 51:55

I I showed up, like I literally went to an internet cafe and like typed a resume. Dude did not look at the resume. He, hey, I came, we came in the door and he was like all right, and he goes, well, we'll put you up in a hotel for a couple nights until we get a boat. So we weren't on the rigs, we were the boats that supply the rigs.

Speaker 2: 52:08

So we just go back and forth, back and forth.

Speaker 1: 52:10

Yeah, I think for a rig we would have had to have had, but this like to be a deckhand in those situations. They, they were. You can't get off the boat, you know.

Speaker 2: 52:26

Like yeah, yeah, yeah, you know where you're at.

Speaker 1: 52:28

Yeah, you know where you're at, you can't run anywhere, but I mean they paid decently. It was like $200 a day for work that you were on like 12-hour shifts and you did like three hours of work. What are you doing on these boats? So they have all this stuff that needs to get out there, mostly casing like, for which they drill down then they put the piping yeah but a lot of other things too, you know, like food supplies. New are these boats. Oh god, I can't remember.

Speaker 2: 52:55

But 20, 50 foot, or are they big? They're big. No, these are ships.

Speaker 1: 52:59

Yeah, like these are, yeah, these are full-on ships, like because these, these pieces of, there's tons and tons. We're talking about, like you know, hundreds and hundreds of tons. Okay, okay, okay, okay okay, I'm pictured now.

Speaker 1: 53:08

I'm tracking yeah and um, what we would do is we would go out to the rigs and we would just kind of sit off the edge of the rig, you know, and when the rig needed something we had like on boat, like cleaning floors and shit like that, we were lowest common denominator guys. So we're, you had, you had some janitorial duties and then, but most of your duties were, uh, they would come over the radio and be like okay, we need item 617b or whatever you know like they're, and we would just be told, okay, you got to go out in the back deck and our job was, as the crane hook came down from the rig, we had to to lift up like the big loop O-ring thing they had there and hook it to that. And then we had to use the sort of guiding ropes to make sure that things didn't smash. And so we took things on Pretty dangerous job, super dangerous, particularly because the rigs are so big they don't get affected by the wake, so they're not moving up and down, but the boat does, and your shifts are like midnight to noon or noon to midnight, and so I was on midnight to noon, so some one day it was like two in the morning and if the waves are too big we're not supposed to work.

Speaker 1: 54:16

But this one guy we were working with, he would say yes to everything and technically, the rigors. Anyone can stop work, anyone can say I don't feel safe, but there's like that unwritten rule, right?

Speaker 2: 54:29

exactly, you can't be that guy. Next time they go back to town they're gonna be like hey, yeah yeah, see you later.

Speaker 1: 54:34

Yeah, exactly, so we're out there. And when it would get big like that, it was scary because you would have to time hooking it, because if the boat dropped out before you got out of the way, then the load was airborne and sometimes these super, super heavy you know loads with like various pinch points.

Speaker 2: 54:52

Yeah, yeah, it was not.

Speaker 1: 54:54

It's swinging and then the boat's coming and going and also some of these, some of these old boys we worked it down there, would like try and like, push, push the loads and you'd be like barry dude, like you can't. That thing weighs like 500 tons or something.

Speaker 1: 55:06

You're like no I got her, you know no, you don't, you know, try to stop a ship. Yeah, yeah, no. So they just yeah, they gave us 200 a day and they fed us and I didn't have any rent or anything at that time. So it was like 200 was not that much money, but it was 200 to pocket, no debt, no rent no, anything, so it, you know it.

Speaker 2: 55:25

That adds up quick. I mean, are you staying on the ship? So you're not even on a hotel. So even when you go back you're probably restocking the ship. Then straight back out.

Speaker 1: 55:33

Yeah it was you could stay out. The people who did it full time um would do like month on, month off or whatever they okay, but you could stay out as long as you want it, like I a few times. Like the job would finish with one of the boats that we were on and there was such demand at the time I don't know if there still is for people who were doing that type of work that they would just move me immediately to another ship. At most they would put me up in a hotel for a couple nights. They would pay for the pay me for those nights I was in the hotel and then put me back out on another boat, you know, because there was just such demand for what was essentially like freelance labor yeah, you're pocketing 1200 bucks a week, or?

Speaker 1: 56:10

whatever that wasn't, it wasn't that bad, you know I mean back.

Speaker 2: 56:14

What year was this? Um 2006? Oh yeah, 1200 bucks a week and you're getting, yeah, you're not paying for hotel and they're feeding you on the boat. Obviously, seeing you on the boat. You have zero overhead, so you're pocketing money enough to hit back on the road again. Go back on the road that was the whole plan.

Speaker 1: 56:28

That was the whole plan.

Speaker 2: 56:29

Yeah, and so, yeah, we got back out and we god, you probably met some just people in in louisiana, new orleans, man, they are just fascinating, some of the dudes on the boats out there.

Speaker 1: 56:43

There was so many guys who were just like like half of what I would do some days I would get so sick of it was like dudes would just be like you'll read this text I'm going to send to this girl. Like half of what we were doing was dudes just lying to women and asking me to proofread their text and watching dumb ass movies. We get so bored, you know. We just like. We were like how many times can you get like four adult men are watching like the Parent Trap or something like that?

Speaker 2: 57:10

you know this is a civilian version of the Marine Corps.

Speaker 1: 57:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is literally, this is young Marines deployed. It sounds yeah, yeah, I can see that. I can see that, yeah.

Speaker 2: 57:28

Like 30 dudes watching the notebook and like you know, or just one dude.

Speaker 1: 57:30

He's like, hey, man, check this out, and it's just raunchy ass porn. And you're just like, oh, all right, give me a heads up before you.

Speaker 2: 57:32

Like you know, yeah, he's like ain't that pretty good? I'm like, oh man, I mean like, no, it's not great. Yeah, I think she needs to go to the doctor, I think you hate women, like yeah yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:42

Yeah, that's a different breed down there on that job, yeah sure and so the what, the dudes who snuck out, there were dudes who would sneak out weed, like we, just you just, there were just things you just couldn't do. And he's like you want to come smoke a bowl with me? I'm like absolutely not man, like it's like one thing we get.

Speaker 2: 57:56

We just don't smoke weed out of pipe hanging above us like no, I need to be in the right state of mind right now. The right state of mind man.

Speaker 1: 58:03

Yeah. Yeah, that's hilarious. I had one job there, so I worked in the rigging in the back, but one time they put me on a job on a boat that was doing survey work for like new spots that they might drill for, okay, and they just needed someone to be like an assistant cook, basically. So there was a chef who had done the job for years and then there was going to be me, a new chef. Yeah, he expected someone who knew how to cook. It was just this dude that he just put in the boat, so he's immediately pissed off with me. We worked together for these 12-hour shifts where he was just on a Bluetooth headpiece talking to his girlfriend.

Speaker 1: 58:44

The whole time, the whole time, the whole time.

Speaker 2: 58:46

How do you have this conversation every day for this long dude drive me?

Speaker 1: 58:50

insane too. And then on the boats, like you have to learn in the kitchens, I didn't realize everything has to be magnetized or something you like. Put a knife down and then it's the wall, you know like oh shit or the timing, the big fridge doors you know like let them go out, let them come in you know it was interesting, like yeah like you have experienced a lifetime of shit so quick, I bet being on the road.

Speaker 2: 59:14

Yeah, I think I think you know this is why this is. This is so cool. Man, I commend you so much for just doing this because there's so many people in their deathbeds that are I wish. I wish I would have, I should have, I took and you're doing it, you know I think.

Speaker 1: 59:30

I think that there's some. There's a mindset too, which is something I've I've dealt with with, like I'm I'm in the second phase right now where, like I went through a period of, like substance abuse and this was after all this traveling and, like you know, me working 16 hour days, like I mentioned, in front of a computer, you know, having adult responsibilities with a wife where, like I just felt like I didn't fit into what I was doing, like I think there's something in my nature that is suited well to everything is moving fast, it's intense and I feel in control, like I never joined the military for a long time you would have been a great Marine.

Speaker 1: 1:00:07

That's right. I was close when I was younger to join the military. I grew up in a like extremely liberal parents and like it would have been the worst thing, but I was. I was like a um. I did really well in wrestling and I, so I got recruited through wrestling and they were throwing a lot of stuff at me and I was pretty close. So my mom basically begged me not to join. Where are you from originally? Where were you born? I was born in Scotland, so my dad's from Scotland, my mom's from Ohio, okay, and so when I was 13, we moved to Maine. My dad built wooden boats. So I was 13, I moved to Maine and I went to middle school and high school in Maine A boat company.

Speaker 2: 1:00:41

I'm from upstate New York, so we're all wooden boats.

Speaker 1: 1:00:44

Brooklyn Boat Yard. If you know where the wooden boat school is up in Brooklyn, maine, it's up. Yeah, that's where we have a huge antique boat museum oh really.

Speaker 2: 1:00:52

Yeah, like wooden boats are life, but there's nothing that rides better than a wooden boat.

Speaker 1: 1:00:55

Yeah, I know it's something else.

Speaker 2: 1:01:00

Okay, so we'll get back to. You're kind of getting now. You did this. What substances are you getting? If you don't mind me asking, are you cool sharing this?

Speaker 1: 1:01:08

Yeah, no, it's no problem at all. So I had worked. As you know, call it what you want to call it, I don't like the label of this, but I clearly have what they would define as ADHD. You know, like, focusing is very difficult for me, like, and I do it through a number of means of trying to to do various, you know, moving around, jumping, taking breaks, all this stuff, but I get through it. I've been working as a journalist in san antonio and I ended up getting a job, um leaving because I wanted to do more freelance stuff. I ended up getting a job running a magazine for, like, a crypto company.

Speaker 1: 1:01:45

It's a whole different thing. But for this conversation it's enough to say that, like it was a startup, they were making a decent amount of money and there was just this expectation of like work, work, work, work. They weren't even. It wasn't even like my bosses were pushing me to do that. It was just like that's what we're doing here and if you're not on board, this is the tempo.

Speaker 1: 1:02:09

Take it or leave it yeah, they weren't assholes about it, but it was like, look, this is, you know, it's a startup like this ship either sails or it sinks, and like we're gonna try to make it sail, you know, um, and during that period of time, thinking back, you know, I probably had had like a tenuous relationship with alcohol beforehand. Anyway, I was just a pretty good drinker, like I could handle my booze, you know, and I knew how to like separate church and state, so to speak, like I wasn't like drinking during the day you know, but I would rip it up and then just wake up and do the like let's go, I'm going to be fine at work.

Speaker 2: 1:02:46

You've been a great Marine.

Speaker 1: 1:02:48

Yeah, you're describing my whole entire first four years and got to this point where I did start to use it to take the edge off. Sometimes I would have to do these interviews with artists and I was running through through stuff, or I have to at late night. I'd have to like write stories really fast and I I tend to get like like I want my writing to be good, you know, and I didn't have time to worry about that and I would find what's already you're already working at 7 pm, you know what I mean like you might as well have a I'm just gonna have a beer or two with this, you know. Then, all of a sudden, you find yourself little tips. You're like, well, I'll get up and I'll edit in the morning and it'll be fine. Which it was. What really kind of rocked me was I still felt like I could be doing better and I kind of had the suspicion that I would be a candidate for, like um adhd medication. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:03:51

And so I just went and I like this is during the pandemic everyone was inside all the time and like I, I went and I just I just talked to like a local psychiatrist, just like a feeling. I was in san antonio's where I was living at the time, and they were absolutely and they had me take this test and I guess I did terrible on it because they were just like you can have as much as you want, basically, I mean, they continued to just let me ramp up, though, and they kept saying like, yeah, we think you're a great candidate for a stimulant medication and at first it worked really, really well. But I also I think, look, I think, look, I think there are lots of people that it continues to work well, for it did the job for me. But I still got the come down like as if I was doing like cocaine or something.

Speaker 2: 1:04:38

Yeah, okay, so it was a hard crash. It was like it was a crash.

Speaker 1: 1:04:41

It was anxious and jittery, yeah, and I just started developing this habit of like I've got so much work to do, I can just take a little bit more of the ADHD medication than I'm prescribed to take, and I'll just work through it. And then you don't sleep very well for a little bit and then you shake that off and then it gets to the point where you've got a month's worth of medication and you're done with that in like 22, 24 days. So you've got six to eight days and then the first two days of that are going to be like a crash. You're literally going to crash, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:05:12

And so I start supplementing with more drinking where I was basically like I was just cutting this violent edge where my brain is just like like you know, if you say like I normally have ADHD, when I was coming off the meds it was nuts like I couldn't even sit and look at a computer, I couldn't read something on a screen without my brain, just like, like I felt like you know, when you see, like a golden retriever, puppy, like that, just I just felt like that, like oh, oh, oh, and so I would, I would cut the edge with some booze, but that only works for like one drink, because slowly your your capacity to actually perform goes down and it just it just started happening where it was like it was spiraling a little bit and my wife like caught on. She was like what's going on? Like there's, like there's like the, the trash cans have like empty booze that I didn't even know you purchased you know like that makes a good wife.

Speaker 2: 1:06:04

They notice the things yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:06:07

And yeah, like I tried to balance it for a while Okay, I'm going to quit the booze but I'm going to keep the ADHD medication, but then the ADHD medication I couldn't stick with it like in a balanced way and then I would go back to sneaking the booze and it really just got to this point where, like I was yeah, I was just I was like what am I? I've got to stop all of this shit. You know, like I think I'm super overworked. You know I'm working these really really, really long days. I'm going between over-performing insanely at three weeks at a time because I'm taking stimulant medication to be able to do this and crashing, and during that time I was taking on like huge projects at work too and people would just be like Luke is a boss, you know, he's just crushing it and then just crashing and taking the edge off with alcohol inside and honestly, like my wife kind of, was just like, like you know, I'm not gonna live with this, for you know, and yeah, how hard was it coming off.

Speaker 1: 1:07:15

Like quite, quite hard, yeah, and I still think when I'm done with this trip I'm going to go back on to. So I didn't do AA. I went to like a couple meetings and I think like it would have had benefit. I think it has great benefits. I think 12-step programs have benefits. I think I was resistant for the exact reason that 12-step programs are good. Okay, which is, you know, the third step in, or I think it's the third step. Like I said, I didn't go through the program in. Aa is, you know, giving yourself over to a higher power, right? And I took that from a place of like oh, I have to do it in like a very tight, narrow-minded perspective of, like you know, one sort of St James Bible version of like a faith you know For sure, which was what everyone was in that room doing and also everyone else in that room's situation was. For the most part, it seemed like a lot worse than mine, was Like there's a lot of people in really rough situations, at least at the meeting I was going to. So I walked away from it and I, mostly on my own, wrestled my way through it Once I got off Really so when I started this trip.

Speaker 1: 1:08:35

Like when I started this project, I was off the ADHD medication.

Speaker 1: 1:08:38

This is only like three weeks ago and this is when I decided like that, honestly, we'll need some sort of recovery after this is done. Like I was on the road and the stories I was doing were starting to like, or the stuff I was putting online was starting to like take off, you know, and I was getting super anxious about editing at night and I was putting online was starting to like take off, you know, and I was getting super anxious about editing at night and I was like you've been doing great with all of this. Like you're, you know, it was the AD. I convinced myself it was the ADHD medication. That was like issue. So I, two nights in a row, I drank like two, three beers to like cut the edge while I was editing late night. And then the third night I just got ripping drunk by myself in a hotel room and woke up the next day and I was like, oh, so this is like legit. I mean still going on in the sense that You're like, oh, it's back.

Speaker 1: 1:09:21

I think I think I do have enough willpower to cover most scenarios, but not enough to cover all scenarios. And the reason I turned to what I think that that step is and what they say in AA, where you turn yourself over to higher power, yeah, that step is and what they say in AA, where you turn yourself over to higher power.

Speaker 1: 1:09:36

Yeah, it's just this. It's this moment of acceptance of like look, I'm not responsible for controlling everything, I can't control everything. Like that anxious place in my brain that's constantly in the future, constantly trying to do the next thing. Oh, how's this going to work out? What's this? Because it's just kind of how my brain works. I thing, oh, how's this going to work out? What's this? Because it's just kind of how my brain works. I'm trying to plan things, trying to move, trying to switch that together, being able to say, hey, actually you'd never have been in control of anything anyway. And if you just let go and turn yourself over to the fact that you don't have complete control, you can start to make progress from that that place.

Speaker 1: 1:10:15

And there's different ways. I think 12-step can be approached. There's something called recovery dharma, which is more from like a Buddhist perspective, which I have a friend who was talking to me about it. He's done because, basically, after that happened three weeks ago, I called a bunch of friends. I was like hey, guys, they all kind of like knew that I had gone sober, but I had even been saying to people. I was like I think I was just not drinking because I was going through all that shit with work and the ADHD medication, I think.

Speaker 1: 1:10:41

Up until very recently, I had this idea that I was just in a bad place and I needed I just needed a break and some space. But I got like kind of an eyeopening moment where it was like what, three days, one day, two day, thursday, third day I'm like getting blackout drunk by myself. I was just like shit. So, yeah, uh, when I'm done with this pro, I think for the rest of this project I'll be okay, Cause I'm so. When I get done with this, like yeah, which is a hard thing to admit honestly, you're probably the first person I've told that to other than my wife.

Speaker 2: 1:11:17

Oh, I appreciate that. Yeah For opening up.

Speaker 1: 1:11:20

Yeah, but it's like yeah, and I think people who have been through recovery will probably look at what I'm saying and be like, yeah, you need that. You know. Like anyone I feel like who tries to do what I'm trying to be doing, I don't know. I think it's a very difficult thing to muscle through.

Speaker 2: 1:11:37

Oh yeah, and with alcohol that's the hardest. I mean once it's got its hooks, man, it's a tough one.

Speaker 1: 1:11:46

From a neurological standpoint too, I think something does change. I've been reading about this. It's like you cross a threshold where your brain kind of knows this one thing will solve a lot of my problems. So it draws you back. And once you've kind of crossed that line, it's almost like you've got like sorry, you blew it. You know like you can't really drink now, you know you have to go completely teetotal.

Speaker 2: 1:12:10

You know what I mean, there's no happy medium.

Speaker 1: 1:12:12

Yeah, you kind of crossed that line, you know, and like I've read about it and you know that there's there's there's truth to that. But uh, yeah, and so I just, I just have to be comfortable with that Like and honestly, being sober is a better lifestyle.

Speaker 2: 1:12:30

I feel it really is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, biggest battle for, I feel, for most people.

Speaker 1: 1:12:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:12:35

I've helped a lot of vets in the past, you know, with substance abuse and things like that, yeah, and when they're denying it and no, I'm good, that's what, no changes are made. But once they get in your seat like, okay, I realize it, I see it, something needs to change. That's, I feel feel, a really big step.

Speaker 1: 1:12:53

I appreciate it, man. It also has to be a lifestyle change for me. I know not everyone's situation is the same, but I brought up that ADHD stuff. I don't think I'm made to sit in front of a computer all day, every day. No, I'm not. And like no, I'm going to need to figure out. You know, like I think I muscled through it when I was younger because I had jobs with less responsibility, so I would show up and work at a desk like, terrified, you better do your eight hours and get out. And then, once I hit my thirties and like I started getting freedom, no one's watching over my shoulder anymore, I'm not getting anything done because I can't focus, you know. And sure, you can kind of take stimulant medication or other types of medication, but that's not going to be the route for me, you know. And so I'm just going to have to figure out what my balance is to make it work. You know and that's a big part of why I'm on this trip honestly, was that meltdown I went through?

Speaker 1: 1:13:51

So when I went through that period of time, we, I had been saving money and he was talking to my wife and you know, she got a job offer. We were living in San Antonio at a house that we had been trying to like fix up. We bought this, this, you know this like 1941 house and she got this job offer. She was really unhappy in her work. She got this job offer. She was really unhappy in her work. She got this job offer in austin that she really really was excited about and was like you know, should we do this? Should we move to austin? And so we decided I was like, look, I, as much as this job sucked, working in crypto, it paid really well, like I saved a good I've got, I can take this amount of money. And you know, as long as I don't blow through all of this, you know we're still very in a good, good place.

Speaker 1: 1:14:39

And so I quit my job and I just weren't to work for a month and a half about fixing up the house so that we could move to Austin and put a renter into the house in San Antonio. So I worked to get that coordinated and then we moved to Austin and, yeah, I just started planning this, this project. This is kind of this. You know, like I said when we started talking, there's a component of this that is about me figuring out what's next for me because, like I can't be happy doing what I was doing before and, like you know, when people do talk about substance abuse it's usually an effect, not a cause. I believe that to be true and like I can try to continue tackling the effect and maybe have some strength over it, but at some point also I'm going to be a little happier if I root out the cause and change that. You know what I mean Like yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2: 1:15:30

So this trip you're on now is just as much for you. Besides the project, I mean it's, it's I'm sure you're doing a lot I mean besides, obviously, the hotel for three nights.

Speaker 1: 1:15:41

I mean, it's a grim night that last night. Well, it was a grim morning, right, cause it just woke up and I hadn't been hung over. I hadn't been hung over in, like you know. I think it had been like eight, nine months since I had a drink before those three days and I had just hadn't been hung over in a while and I got walloped because I don't think my body was used to it either. You know, like yeah, yeah. And it was just like oh.

Speaker 2: 1:16:00

Oh, oh shit, I don't think I got a handle on this, Like I thought I did you know, yeah, yeah, I was getting a little bit older man. I just had a buddy in town and I don't I don't drink just for personal, I just don't drink right like yeah, I'm just not a drinker. It's not my thing, yeah and uh. But we went out and we had some drinks and, dude, I had like four or five drinks and the next day I was like oh, like, getting older, it sucks and we're learning.

Speaker 1: 1:16:29

That's the other thing too. Generationally we're learning so much about how bad it is for you like I come from. So so, where I grew up, in Scotland, you drink and it's like in the bones. I had my first drink when I was like eight, on New Year's Eve. You know, my cousin and I were stealing drinks when we were like 11. You know it's been a part. When I moved to the States it then became a point of pride for me that like I was the kid who he knew his way around booze, you know, yeah, I tried to fit in that. So like with 14, I'm drinking like and it just felt, yes, the culture in Scotland was that way. Then also the age that I am, like when we were like in our twenties and eights, it's like it was the coolest thing to be able to handle.

Speaker 2: 1:17:10

For sure.

Speaker 1: 1:17:10

And I feel like it's obviously still a thing thing, but I do feel like it seems like from the outside looking in, there's a little bit of a generational change where, like, people are starting to realize that just being great at being blackout is maybe not the coolest thing in the world you know, to an age.

Speaker 2: 1:17:26

Instead of like damn, that dude drinks a lot, you know it used to be like yeah, you could drink a bottle and function.

Speaker 1: 1:17:32

I'm like damn, he's in a rough spot, yeah bragging like I'm on the throne of being able to.

Speaker 2: 1:17:40

You know, I'm not a lightweight. Now I'll see a guy chug all night and just get black. I'm like, yeah, bro, like god, help that dude yeah, yeah, for sure man get it yeah, but yeah, well, good for you, man, I mean at least you'd acknowledge it. Um, we'll get back to the hitchhiking, but that's I mean, at least you're, at least you're, you're thinking of it I'm in it, I'm not.

Speaker 1: 1:18:01

I'm not out of it.

Speaker 2: 1:18:02

Like I'll admit that I'm not out of it will be unfortunately you know, once you realize like, okay, this is it, I mean there's a I I then I say that in a respectful way because I have buddies that have been sober for years and if I have a sip right now, I can't. And it's not even just alcohol, it could be anything. But yeah, alcohol is a tough one.

Speaker 1: 1:18:23

It can be anything, and so I also think I have an addict mentality, which has served me well in a lot of ways interestingly, if you learn how to channel an addict mentality, it can be a superpower.

Speaker 1: 1:18:33

I got into altar running. I was into big wall climbing, you know, and like the, you know, just going up into Washington mountains and like driving and training for that, training, training, training, training for that sort of thing, and training for long distance running became a thing for me when I and then in stuff like the hitchhiking and writing, like you know, sticking to a project like the one I'm doing right now, there is kind of there's a little bit of an addict mentality in that. But I'm also realizing, as I get older, like that I would benefit from living a life where if you knock one peg out, the whole ship doesn't fall down, you know, cause that's kind of what how the addict mentality is, and I've had had that before, like when climbing was my life, and then, like you know, I I strain a tendon in my hand that actually never fully healed. That's what happened. It's like, what do I do? My whole source of like feeling good about myself is gone you know everything, yeah, and it's like why?

Speaker 1: 1:19:28

why do I allow myself to get wrapped up in those in one hand? It's actually kind of cool, it's. It's it feels empowering to be obsessive about something you know like and to get good at it you know, but then it's, a balanced life is healthier.

Speaker 2: 1:19:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah. So, being on the road, what is one of the biggest lessons that you've learned from other people, from hitchhiking and getting rides?

Speaker 1: 1:19:59

I think there's a few To take it to this trip in particular, and the conversations we're having around a period of time where we're on, so there's so much intensity. It's like high, high voltage in society. Everybody's locked and loaded, yeah, and we're on, so there's so much intensity.

Speaker 2: 1:20:15

It's like high, high voltage in society Everybody's locked and loaded yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:20:17

And we're on these, these two sides. You know that. I think that two things come out of that for me. One is that you know when you're when I'm hitchhiking so I live in Austin, Texas. You know my politics are are a little mixed, Like I've always been more left, but economically I'm not. You know, like I feel like and honestly I really have, without getting into it too much, I get nothing out of any of the parties.

Speaker 2: 1:20:48

Like. None of them give me anything that I want. We're team. Fuck the government.

Speaker 1: 1:20:51

Yeah, okay, then we're on the same team. Yeah, yeah, thing that I want we're team, fuck the government. Yeah, okay, then we're on the same team. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and so, but I, you know, like I know a lot of people who are more on the left side, especially when I was younger. You know, like that was my well, that's your parents who grew up in that.

Speaker 1: 1:21:03

So that's what you're kind of surrounded sure yeah uh, and then you go to northern rural idaho and I'm hitchhiking with some guy who worked for the Forest Service, now runs a farm for his life. He's a life of farming and working outside and he has certain needs that he needs from a government and certain things he doesn't, and his value system is so radically different from, let's say, someone working a tech job in Austinin or even like, let's say, new york, you know, like to living in an urban environment like that that you're comparing apples to oranges 100 like he doesn't care about dei issues because dei issues don't affect his life. What affects him is he sees people trying to make politics about this thing for leverage, and he has issues that he cares about that have nothing to do with that, that he sees being neglected. And then you have the other side, who has a completely justifiable argument too. They see, like a president who's kind of started like a spark in what feels like you know, white supremacist stuff, feeling more empowered, and that may be true, but in the same regard, the issues that they're seeing every day in their life, because maybe they're affected by it, you know, maybe they, maybe they're gay or maybe they're, you know they're, they're black, like I'm those. They're completely justified in those things that they worry about too, but those things do not cross with that guy. They're living in completely different worlds. So how do we deal with that?

Speaker 1: 1:22:35

There's this book by this guy called Jonathan Height where he talks a little bit about how this works in the brain and like that. We like to think that we make moral decisions from our rational brain, like stuff about politics, religion, this stuff. We don't. We have a system that makes snap decisions based on a moral framework and that moral, the framework, is built up of the groups you associate with Absolutely, and so you know like you like something, because that moral framework and your rational mind, according to him, only comes in afterwards to like fill in the gaps, right? So if your snap decision obviously has a flaw in the logic, your rational mind comes in and, like you know, covers over that flaw. And he's worked in this field, you know it's like he's a psychologist covering research in this and I see that in the attention economy that we're dealing with right now, like these algorithms are playing on that part of our brain 100%, and so what I bring up like, yeah, these two guys, apple and Orange, the dude in Austin and the dude in Idaho, like maybe those two people don't have to see eye to eye. So how do we? What do we do with that?

Speaker 1: 1:23:43

Well, like some dude just the other day in central Washington said something to me from such a simple point, he works in, he's in excavation business and I was asking him about like, how do we build better connections between people? And he goes look, he's like, if I'm doing a fucking excavation job and it's going to go through your fucking neighborhood, I got two choices. He's like, I can go to your door before the job starts and I can say hey, my name's Mike, we're going to be working on this project out here. Here's my number if you need to call me Like. But like, look, we're going to be working on this project out here. Here's my number if you need to call me. But look, this is what's going to happen and when it's done, you know your water is actually going to probably run with a little bit of higher pressure than it did now, so it's going to be better off.

Speaker 1: 1:24:21

Or I can say nothing and this dude is just going to see a bunch of construction outside of his house and it doesn't matter what I say, cross that boundary to just introduce ourselves to one another.

Speaker 1: 1:24:40

We can't find that commonality in each other. And what that guy is saying is what I'm learning in hitchhiking too. Like I'm talking to people who we're radically different but we're in the car together. We find commonality and he might fundamentally hold a different belief than me, but if I tell him I disagree with him, he's going to listen to me because we're eye to eye in this car. He's not gonna write like fuck you, you fucker, like he might online, you know. And I just feel like the biggest thing that I'm learning in this is you maybe can't know everyone in the country, but we can know people close to her, to us. We can build community, we can be more active at a local level, because maybe the united states it's hard. It's hard to hold the whole thing together, like we're a pretty diverse place, you know I feel a lot of people forget how massive of a country it is.

Speaker 2: 1:25:28

I mean the state of texas alone is. Yeah, I mean it covers like what, I don't, I don't, I'm gonna put my foot in my mouth but, like dude, like half, it takes a long time to drive across it. Yeah, but you could take texas and it's covering up huge countries you know, and so you, you look at california. It has a I mean california's budget's bigger than most of the world's countries, right? So you, you take those things into consideration, but then, on top of it, you start adding this divided factor yeah we're now neighbors haven't, don't talk to neighbors anymore.

Speaker 2: 1:25:59

There's no community functions anymore. Now it's like we're that, we're a, we're the greatest country in the world of hermits, yeah. And then now it's like we, you and I online, you, you could have. Um, I vote for the left, I vote. I vote for the left, you vote for the. The right, whatever.

Speaker 1: 1:26:17

Now there's no way you and I are going to have a conversation, have that conversation exactly. And the truth is like with hitchhiking, you do see. I mean it's all sides, yeah, and we're all. So much of us is the same like and I, so much of our identities get built up around the division.

Speaker 1: 1:26:33

This guy said this to me the other day in coming out of Bellingham Washington. He said he thinks that one time in this country, like maybe 50, 75 years ago, our whole media was built around trying to put the focus onto our similarities, like back in that day. You know, there's only three TV channels, everyone's going to the bowling alley locally at night there's one movie theater. So if you're working in media or anything really, you're trying to find that common denominator which brings us together as Americans. In the internet age, that thing has flipped on its head. We're now it's our divisions that we're focusing on.

Speaker 1: 1:27:19

So, like what he was trying to say is maybe we're not actually that much different than we used to be, but now we're just focusing on our differences as opposed to focusing on our similarities. And I think you can take that belief without dismissing people's complaints, like that doesn't mean that you know that you don't have a valid point to bring up for why your group is being marginalized or whatever. It is sure you know, but there's truth to that then unless we try to find these commonalities and the only way you do it is by is by is by face-to-face interaction. And again, I said this at the beginning of the thing I think hitchhiking for women is probably different. I think the creep factor gets into things in a way like men are.

Speaker 2: 1:27:58

I have a beautiful teenage daughter. Yeah, 17 years old dude. I see how men look and it's.

Speaker 1: 1:28:02

I would hate to be a woman, yeah yeah, we get it, but outside of the creep factor, I think most of our preconceived notions about people are wrong. You know, they're pretty much. They're pretty much decent people trying to get by in their own way. 100 you know yeah like I don't want to excuse as women men do creepy shit. But that aside, like I think most people are just decent people, you know?

Speaker 2: 1:28:27

yeah, trying their hardest, yeah and it's great that you say that, so obviously you could tell we're. We hunt in this family and, yeah, you might be anti-hunting, right, I grew up hunting my whole life, so you get it. But so you can also get the other side, where I could post something with my kids. And then I have these people that are wishing the most horrific thing on them because we hunt right, trophy hunting. Here's a perfect example of how we're so. Divided is like this guy just got gored by a cape buffalo in africa and I I'm reading this thing online and I go to the comments.

Speaker 2: 1:28:59

People like karma, fuck this piece of shit I saw that story and they're tearing this dude apart that got killed and it's like you don't even know what is going on. Like, first off, you're here protecting animals. What have you actually ever done to protect animals? And if you actually sat down with this guy or a trophy hunter a true, a real hunter, not some guy that's just paying rich and you realize how much money actually goes to these villages, how much money he's spending in africa, because the government's so corrupt there they're not getting any of your 10 cents a day that you're helping feed starving children.

Speaker 1: 1:29:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:29:33

So if they actually had that conversation and I've had it in our home I had a buddy that his wife was hardcore liberal I'm talking the far end of liberal anti everything that is under our roof. She was against it. Yeah, but she came over and I'm like sit down.

Speaker 1: 1:29:49

Let's have a conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:29:50

Yeah, and I was like what do you want to know? Just just start asking. You know, and I'm I'm not going to defend myself, but I'm going to tell you my point of views on this yeah she left.

Speaker 2: 1:29:57

It was like I had no idea she was left, like she's. Like I would honestly go hunting with you, like if this is everything that you're explaining it to me how it is she you know because she's you look at a bear and it's a disney character and everybody else, they're illegal, they're going extinct. But then I'm showing her, like here's racks of bear meat that we've canned. The bones are going to my buddy that is a knife maker and he's helping do these classes with them. We can everything. I mean we even the rug. Honestly, the rugs aren't even the trophy to us. That's the most expensive part that I could give a shit about. It's the meat. The experience with my kids and you start talking to people and they just that's where we've lost it as a country is. We don't talk anymore and this is why I immediately messaged you. The huge part like there's.

Speaker 1: 1:30:41

you know, I've worked in, like I mentioned, as a journalist quite a bit and there's like a thing they talk about which is like framing of stories, like there's a few ways to be biased. Yep, one of them is the most often the most subtle one is framing.

Speaker 1: 1:30:53

One of them is the most often, the most subtle one, is framing, which, like I think all major media now kind of has some bias. You'll get organizations like the New York Times. They have journalists who are going to be as very objective Like they've worked really hard to be objective but the story framing you know it's like what they choose to cover, the direction they turn it to come from, obviously has some sort of a slant. Um, that that idea of framing, I think, as it applies to pretty much all of our digital interactions, like all this stuff, you can make an argument for or against hunting based on a series of points the way that you frame where someone is going to be absolutely outraged in one or the other direction, absolutely, because you're just choosing to frame it.

Speaker 1: 1:31:38

And then you add video now where we just get these small 50 second videos, that's just frame, frame of an interaction, frame of a circumstance, and that's just not reality in any way. And if you, you don't have to take a person hunting, like you said, you can sit down with them and have a real conversation. They can see a wider, broader perspective of something. Okay, maybe they still have completely valid reasons to not like hunting, but at least they're gonna see, yeah, why your reasons are valid, you know, and like two people can go on amicably after that and just because we can't come to agreement or I'm not gonna get.

Speaker 2: 1:32:12

Just accept what you're telling me doesn't mean we have to be enemies, sure, and I think that's where the the hardest part, because I get a lot of questions, because I always put out like the polls and ask me a question people like you think the country always stay divided.

Speaker 2: 1:32:23

Divided, and I hate to say it and I would love to know your point of view, but I I think we will never go back to where we were as long as we have the media. If the media shifted, you take far right away, far left away and we just went to media the positives, what's happening in our communities. Yeah, hey, this is what the changes are as like a neutral bias. Like if the republic trump fucks up, call his ass out, biden fucks up, call their ass out. It should be a a bias across the board, because then people are just going to see what's going on out there, like why aren't we watching the news right now, and it's not all on every single station? Like 60 children were just found in florida, not a word. And like half of them are pregnant, like that I can't wrap my head around that. But instead biden doesn't know how to eat an ice cream and you're just like ridiculous.

Speaker 2: 1:33:14

Yeah, you see what I'm saying, so it's like, unless we we get back to because I'm come from a military standpoint of military history and how it's easy to manipulate propaganda. Yeah, I look at, I don't care what news station it is, I'm not saying one's better, it's all propaganda. Because then if I'm like, well, I'm a republican, I'm only gonna watch these guys talk about what's going on, and then they're just trashing the left. There's no different of the left trashing the right. So here we are still divided, and so I I completely agree and I don't actually know.

Speaker 1: 1:33:49

like, I think the one thing that is positive that's happening is that there's more awareness that this is happening. 100 people are waking up, yeah, that. But the one thing that is positive that's happening is that there's more awareness that this is happening. 100%, people are waking up, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:33:56

But the other side, which is the negative, is that, with this sort of algorithmic delivery system, like, the algorithms don't know what they're doing, they're just trying to go for attention, they're just grabbing you. They're grabbing attention and they're getting better and better at it every single day, and more and more content is being generated by artificial thinking, by these, and so we're kind of storming towards a place where this entire media landscape devolves into an absolute attention-h system where we're that which then compounds and folds on itself, because when you live in that reality, then you further perpetuate that within your own head. You cling to these groups and these sides. Yeah, it's, it's scary. I like to think that, like, we're almost maybe moving to a point where, like, it gets so bad that people start to move away from it. Yes, some people talk about the idea of, like, the death of the internet coming where it's just so much ai information that's why I think this, this form right here, is the future.

Speaker 2: 1:35:04

Yeah, because even though podcasts everybody says pal pack, podcasts are played out. They're a dime, a dozen, they are, there's a new ones pop up, there's thousands pop up every day. Majority of them fade out yeah but as, like you said, with ai, you don't even I'm looking my wife sending me stuff and I could spot it immediately with certain thing, I'm like fake. And she's like you're serious and I'm like you're one of those people. Three thousand comments you burned. You're like damn it.

Speaker 2: 1:35:27

I'm like, yeah, you get caught you got got by ai but then now I'll watch some of them and I gotta watch it three or four times just to try to find an error in it. I'm like I don't know, find that sixth finger that sneaks through.

Speaker 1: 1:35:38

Yeah, which will be gone soon? It will be.

Speaker 2: 1:35:41

I mean dude I just my buddy sent me a video and this guy, this is like the gorilla and he's like fishing for women. He's got a starbucks lure and he pulls in this chick and the way she's breathing in the bottom, I'm like, oh, my god, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:35:51

Like this is terrifying. So I, I, I do think we'll get to a point where people are just over news, over social, over over our generation and I think, my kids generation, cause we were the last generation to grow up without phones, like we know what it's like to be free. Then now it's like I see I'm, I speak for myself, I'm not watching anything ai on the internet. As soon as I know I scoop because I'm stupid, it's not. I want to watch the human interaction. That's why I'm on it. I think the next under, like my kids generation, they're going to be just like even my youngest daughter, ai, so engaging to the, the littles right now, because it's so captivating and it's so bright and colorful and everything's so real yeah I think, but us and maybe a little younger we're going to get to a point where everybody's just like bro, everything's so fake, what do we even trust, where do we even go?

Speaker 2: 1:36:37

And then maybe there'll be some new sources at that point, hopefully some skepticism starts to come in.

Speaker 1: 1:36:44

I mean it can't be nice being in high school right now, I know. I mean middle schoolers are the most ruthless creatures in the world. I can't imagine what it was like to be in middle school. In an age of the internet, you do one thing Imagine if we had Dude. We had, like the internet was just starting.

Speaker 2: 1:37:05

Yeah, we were just starting.

Speaker 1: 1:37:06

I remember I was in like sixth grade, I mean I was still in Scotland. I think it was slightly behind the US because we moved here.

Speaker 2: 1:37:13

But I remember them rolling in the one computer which had like microsoft and carta on it, and we were like, yeah, it's interesting to see where it's gonna go, but who knows, man? But I this is why I love it, because you're, you're able to show people like, okay, here's this, I'm just throwing, I'm not saying you've sat down, but I'm in northern idaho and I just met this aryan crazy dude. But then you hear his points and like, okay, that's his belief to be some white supremacist, but his I don't want to say morals and values, but his beliefs of what you might be like, oh, 100. Oh, you just want to live a life, you want to be left alone, you don't want to be governed. Yeah, you've raised kids like you're a grandfather, so you could connect on those sides of level. Then you might meet some dude that's supports another radical group and you'd be like, hey, I'm not going to support this radical group. But these are the things that I also kind of I agree with or I don't agree.

Speaker 1: 1:38:02

But we can have this conversation, we can find a way through it and in a lot of ways, humans are basically the same. We didn't talk about it, but I also, a friend and I, we hitchhiked down through the coast of Mexico and Guatemala. I actually wanted to touch on that. Yeah, that was like get on that next. But what I was going to say first is you know, I was afraid. I was like I probably should have been more afraid than I was.

Speaker 1: 1:38:22

I feel like in us news at the time the cartel stuff hadn't really yeah, but we did go through like sinaloa and all this stuff just like, but in terms of outside of that bubble of very darkness, you know, like pretty, like this pretty horror, horrific, what's happening there. We were scared because we didn't know and we end up finding just this, like wonderful culture of people who are so proud of their culture, want to show you, pulling over, like talking to us, dealing with our terrible spanish, you know, and just taking into our house like we stayed in homes, we're eating meals with people.

Speaker 1: 1:38:55

It's like just that sense of like, yeah, they're just, they're so happy that we're taking interest in what they're doing and then they're they're going out of their way and it was like such a rich experience, you know which. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to know that without, and it's it's like, yeah, you can. There are certain levels of you know. Know, like when we talk about, yeah, if someone fundamentally hates one other group, it's kind of like, okay, you could overcome that, you know. But outside of those extremes, I have a lot of empathy for a person's background and experience. I'm fortunate to have seen a lot of things. I'm fortunate to be able to take the position I take because of the exposure I've had In a different circumstance, I might be far more set in my ways.

Speaker 2: 1:39:41

With that comment, because you grew up more left right.

Speaker 1: 1:39:45

I grew up interestingly because growing up in Scotland, my dad, we grew up hunting for a lot of what we ate, what we lived in and but we grew up I think my dad probably would have been conservative he voted for conservative party in Britain but when we moved to, my mom was liberal and when we moved to the States, you know the British have like a kind of uncomfortable with like how Americans look at like war and how Americans look at war and how Americans look at their own exceptionalism. And when I was 13, there was more. I think there was envy of that and hate of that, and what I mean by that is like the envy is Americans just have this capacity to be like I'm fucking great, I'm going to succeed, woo Like, and that's kind of a good thing. Like you can make a lot out of your life out of that Like by having focus, determination and believing in yourself and not being afraid. Americans are great at that. But you can also be a huge prick by being like that.

Speaker 2: 1:40:49

Americans are great at that, but you can also be a huge prick by being like that.

Speaker 1: 1:40:51

You know it's true when we take that mentality and go outside of the US, then you're an asshole, and that's where.

Speaker 2: 1:40:55

I feel a lot of people. We turn a lot of people off from America Because I've seen it, I've been places where I was like, oh God, we're not with that, yeah, so when I say yeah, when I say I came like with a real left perspective.

Speaker 1: 1:41:05

It kind of a weird mix because we grew, it's like we just my household was very anti-american military. Having come from like a mom who was on the left and a dad who had a british perspective who was just like the american military is like yeah, they put their hands where they shouldn't put their hands, you know like yeah, yeah and so yeah, and so I had that perspective. But outside of that, yeah, I mean we hunted my dad. A big thing for my dad was making sure that I knew what it's like to rip. You know, rip the shit bag out and like understand what it's like to gut an animal. If you're going to eat an animal, you know yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:41:39

And I think what I was trying to get is like, with you or anybody that's just open-minded, you can be on a not I'm not saying far side of a part of this to say you just grew up in a more leftist leading house, but then, as you're talking and you get to experience everybody, you're like, okay, like I could agree with that, I could disagree with that. You might meet somebody that's far left and be like, oh no, like that's too much. I mean, I mean like these far right and they're like you're right, brother, I'm like, no, like I don't think we should be doing this. And they're like, and I'll just, I disagree with buddies. I got a buddy's wife, that dude. I say anything like anti-republican, even though I I do vote republic. Yeah, what are you? I'm like, see, this is the problem, this, this is why I can't connect with, like the trumpers, the far right, because the second, you have not a hundred percent their alignment.

Speaker 2: 1:42:26

Now you, now you're automatically put over here and I'm like, yeah, I'm like, that's my, that's my disagreement. Like I can be my, my, my moral compass and the things that I believe in. I have I have to vote right, but that doesn't mean I'm supporting the dude that's in charge right now. That was just the lesser of two evils that we got stuck with, but I do have. I. I think we should be ungoverned. I want my kids to have a free life. I don't think we should be having hormones and vaccines and all this shit. Yeah, that's just me and so. But I could sit down and talk to somebody and I got buddies that vaccinated their whole entire kids and I'm not gonna be like, oh, I can't be friends with you. It's like, okay, that's your choice.

Speaker 1: 1:42:56

Yeah, I think that's where we need to get back to as a. I do think you're right that we're doing it now because, like I don't, it's not worth going into it. But I strongly disagree with donald trump and I think that some of the things that he's done, I I'm so opposed to them that, like I can't, I could not, I could not vote right.

Speaker 2: 1:43:22

But I think the fact that, like, we're able to even tell each other that sure it's a pretty big sure it's the difference from most conversations would have asked me a few years ago and I'd be like, oh he, well, and I don't. This isn't even a political podcast, so we don't get deep into it. But I'm with you, dude, like I. Just like I said, he was the lesser of two evils for me, because I'm all about immigration here.

Speaker 2: 1:43:43

I fought for this country. I just had a guest on. She came over and she was. Her parents were immigrants, came here five and I I'm like dude. So I support this. That's the american dream, yeah, but I don't agree with open borders. That scares the shit out of me, because we've seen what it happened. What's happened to all these other countries that are allowing all the muslims, all these people that are coming in.

Speaker 2: 1:44:01

They're destroying countries right now yeah cool, but at the same time, do we need to be deporting? That's this guy that's in the field picking onions to support his family. I don't agree with that. Yeah, you see what I'm saying, but we should get everybody. If you want to come here because I don't see white dudes out in these onion fields and strawberry fields picking strawberries yeah, there should be a much easier process. If you want to come and work, you want to be able to work and provide for your family and pay taxes. That's my belief, right? But if you're just coming here for a free ride and you're a military age male and you're not bringing a family to better their lives, that's where I'm like.

Speaker 1: 1:44:35

I don't support that sure, yeah, those are just my beliefs and I'm yeah, we could talk about this for a long, long time because I actually I like I agree with you in the sentiment and, without going into the details of it, there's just there's a number of reasons. I think we're going about it wrong, yes, but the larger sentiment that, like we should have a functioning system, that like we understand who's coming in and out and that we regulate that for what is best for this country, uh, it that that makes sense to me, like that, and I don't know why we're not able to do that with either party.

Speaker 2: 1:45:09

That makes sense to me too. I'm with you and so, because that would? That makes sense to me because I I was working on a farm, um, I guided hunts and in out in another state, they have all these. All their workers were all from australia. They're on this work program. They come and they I'm like why can't we have more programs? Why aren't we focusing on this? If we're supposed to be the greatest country in the world, we're not doing the work. We're not doing field work. I'm not seeing 15, 16-year-old white kids out there. Nobody wants to do this. It's above them or whatever it may be Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:45:41

Why don't we have these problems that allow people to come in document, as long as it's documented and there's a process to it, which there's not. It's taking people thousands of dollars, years and years to even get accepted. So our system's broken and I, as I I would say republican I see that and I want it changed. So, like this is, this is the best part of this is having a conversation, because I'm sure there's a lot of things we could disagree on. There's a lot of things, hey, cool, like I, I think things would be regulated. So, yeah, dude, and that's. That's just where I and this goes back to where we are as a country it's like dude, we can't most people can't even have these conversations because the second you say, oh, I voted for this person or this person where you fly. If the fact that flying a flag shows you what side you're on, that's how we know we have a problem that, that, because I don't care how far left or how far right you are.

Speaker 2: 1:46:26

It's that old glory represents everything that this country has been through and will go through.

Speaker 1: 1:46:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:46:30

And now you're a racist. Now you're you're far, you're an extremist for flying a flag. That's where, ok, we have. We have issues like I can't. I can't agree with that, and so it's sad that we're at this point.

Speaker 1: 1:46:41

It is sad that we're at that point. And yeah, I mean both, both sides do that. I think something happened with the Trumpers where, like, it went really far in one way, and now I don't think a lot of people in the left are realizing that they're escalating to meet that level, like, in my opinion, something really radical happened with Trump. But now, and those people, I'm just sort of like, oh my God dude, like why do you need two giant flags on your truck, like, and a bunch of bumper stickers that have, like, a picture of Joe Biden in a coffin? I think what's scary now is that I don't think people on the left realize how they're rising to meet that level of extremism. Not all people are left by any means, just like not all people on the right are that example of that Trumper, you know, but those, those extremes are rising and and they're and they're meeting each other at the level of extremism you know it's super scary.

Speaker 2: 1:47:35

Yeah, then you got this group in the middle. It was like can I just, can you just fuck off, leave me alone and not be in my shit all the time, like I just want to live my life like you know, like I said, I worked for this, this crypto startup, and it's like I don't think the left understands a lot about how.

Speaker 1: 1:47:48

You know how to what the value is of, like the way that our economy works. You know, and how dangerous the sure you want to regulate it in some ways, and I do think that money should be going to services like the roads and all this stuff in schools, but you have to be careful how you regulate government. I believe that, but you can't even have that. You can't even make that. That's a very right wing statement now in in some, in some circles. So it's like so we just can't, then we just can't talk about it, yeah, and so we just go around pretending that we all are completely in whatever side of the person that we're in the presence of, which is just an absurd situation to be in you know, yeah, they were definitely living in very interesting times and it's it's gonna be.

Speaker 2: 1:48:30

It's gonna be shit show for a while and unfortunately and I was really hoping for a bit that it would just mellow, but clearly that's not happening and we'll see where it goes. But yeah, back to you, dude fuck politics.

Speaker 1: 1:48:43

Seriously, dude, I hate having the conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:48:44

Yeah, I don't even mean, I don't even know how or why, but yeah, I also, just as a disclaimer to both of my parents.

Speaker 1: 1:48:50

I don't understand their entire politics, but that's how it looked like to me coming up. Yeah, as a child. Yeah, yeah, I get it dude. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:48:58

So has there been anybody since you've hitchhiked all over the world? Is there who stands out to you the most that you've met along the way? That that's hard to say. Is there one person that you close your eyes and they automatically come to?

Speaker 1: 1:49:14

you that you've had a conversation with. This is kind of recent and I think that's probably why it's not like necessarily the whole thing. But so before I started this, this project, I did a test round. So, like I had, you know, I'd done some hitchhiking and I knew that the equipment I'd used back in 2006 was not going to work Like. I needed to be able to get good audio, good, you know, video that didn't jump around blah, blah, blah Capture of getting picked up. Anyway, I came up with a scheme. I had the equipment which I think I wanted to use, but I figured I would do a test and my parents had been, they'd taken, they're retired now and they're in the winter down in Arizona, so they were kind of like just out there in this and so, okay, my plan was I'm going to fly down and meet my parents, spend a little bit of time with them and then I'm going to do like three days of hitchhiking in Arizona. So this would have been like late March, you know, right after we moved to Austin, arizona. So this would have been like late march, you know, right after we moved to austin and um first ride, I get in like southern arizona, we're almost down by the border.

Speaker 1: 1:50:17

Is this older? I think I should put a video of him online. Not that long ago, a snippet at least. Uh, older white gentleman, I think about 65. Uh, ex-military he hinted at. He said he got a bad shoulder from jumping out of helicopters. I don't think there's a lot of circumstances where you jump out of helicopters.

Speaker 1: 1:50:37

Otherwise, works as a mechanic now been through a lot in his life and he just had this stoic, calm perspective on the world where he was just. He said to me he's like I voted for Donald Trump. He's like I just couldn't vote for the 47 versions of male and female. I don't want to get into that very complicated thing, but I can understand how someone wouldn't want to vote for that. And he just goes on to talk about, like you know, this calming sense of how everyone is just so panicked. But the world is moving in cycles and he's like soon enough we're just going to be worm meat and I just want I'm now living out. I finally found myself out in this place where I wake up and I go out in the mornings and like, and I smell what the air smells like after the rain. He's like and I'm just, I'm just happy to be present in the world and to be able to be working with my hands, and it was just this. It's almost like. It's almost like I could have been like and the project's done.

Speaker 1: 1:51:40

He basically summarized everything that I feel like I'm still trying to learn and cover in the very first ride that I did because he just, yeah, here's someone I don't really I didn't, I did not vote for donald trump. I theoretically were on different sides in that regard, but, uh, I understood everything he said and why he said it. You know I can and I and why. And then he goes on to talk about these things I do agree with him about. We have a lot of commonality about, like you know how to find peace and happiness and in the world, and know and a lot of wisdom as an older man to like bestow on me, you know, 25 years as junior and, yeah, it was. There's just something really profound about that. Now that you mentioned it.

Speaker 1: 1:52:22

Another one comes to mind too is there was a guy two days ago I haven't, I think I did upload a video who comes to mind just because he's convinced that he found sasquatch and really, yeah, and this is this type of character that picks you up. Sometimes you've met this type of character in your life, oh for sure, where there's like what's the word? They're just like bombastic, like they, they know how to be good with shooting the shit. Okay, and, like you know, he gets in the car and like I'm like, well, tell me something about your life. Well, I've had four fucking wives. He's like, you know, he's like. He's like. The only one I liked was the one who had a job. You know, I've been logging all these years. He's got all these stories about logging and how he got drunk and then he quit drinking, and then how he did this and then he ripped his this and that and then like, oh yeah, we've got the skitter. You know we're fucking coming and he's.

Speaker 1: 1:53:11

He's got the like cigar that he's chewed, to the point where like the tobacco is coming out you know back into his mouth and he's just shooting the shit with me. And it's like he's not the only one, that person. You don't have to hitchhike to meet that type of person. Those people are out there and it's just like what a novelty of person who just is like he's fucking loving his life. In this point. I asked him what he thought about politics. He's like I don't fucking know man. He's like I don't know what to think of either one of these people. He's like I don't think either one of them is for me. He's like I'm happy that I get to work and I like my work, and then I get to you know, every day I get to you know, pay for the things that I like and do the things that I love, and it's like yeah, man you can't See that's living you can't argue with that man, you know, you know yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:53:56

Yeah, I get it. That's where it should be. You know, yeah Is just living life and being happy, yeah, yeah, so South and you crossed over right from Texas side, or did you go to Cali and cross in?

Speaker 1: 1:54:10

When I went through Mexico. Yeah, so keep in mind, this was what 19 years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we left. So we picked up where I'd left off in San Francisco, because I wanted to keep going all the way down to Argentina, like the original trip plan had been. God, that's a long trip, yeah. And so we hitchhiked from San Francisco to San Diego. Then we walked across the border and then we basically just started hitchhiking down Baja California. Yeah, and yeah, I mean it was like a surreal experience. I'd never been down there. It was really easy to get rides, and then we took the ferry across to the mainland, into Los Mochis. I can't remember, I just definitely butchered.

Speaker 1: 1:54:53

You didn't even put names out there, definitely just butchered the name of a town in Mexico. So, yeah, nevermind, somewhere. Yeah, somewhere it's in Sinaloa though, you know. And so then we hitchhiked through Sinaloa, which, like I didn't really know at the time, but we were hitchhiking through, like, these areas that, like I didn't really know at the time, but we were pitchhiking through these areas, that's like the El Chapo Cartel HQ, cartel HQ, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:55:16

You're out here just as white people hey here we go, these two guys.

Speaker 1: 1:55:20

But we met all these amazing. We did have some pretty crazy experiences. Mexico is where the drunk driving shit happened a couple times Young people just getting into booze in crappy vehicles and really windy roads in the country, off steep drops, you know, and they have a problem there. There's a lot of fatalities in rural parts of the country, unmarked roads and it's just like there's a high probability this kid's going to be a statistic and I don't want to be one with him. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:55:50

Like, yeah, high probability this kid's gonna be a statistic and I don't want to be one with him. You know what I mean. Like yeah, like yeah, two gringos killed a real car wreck.

Speaker 1: 1:55:54

Yeah, we had a couple hair. We got shook down by fake police oh yeah, that's a.

Speaker 2: 1:56:00

Thing yeah do you want, or where were you, uh, mazatlan?

Speaker 1: 1:56:04

oh, yeah, okay, and so this is kind of a long story, but it is a bit of a good story actually. Tourists, the shit down there, they can pick, pick you up. I will, okay, I'll tell this as fast as I can.

Speaker 1: 1:56:13

We come into town and we're not staying in the touristy part of town, because we were trying to find the cheapest hotel and it was in the part, I guess, where all more of the locals live, away from where the resorts come down, yeah, and so come down yeah, and so we go there, we dump our stuff in this hotel and we are so hungry because we just walked a long distance to get to the center of town and we just leave our place and, like across from our hotel, there's a spot that just says like mariscos and uh, something else, like I think, and so we're like, oh, like seafood, great, all right. So we so we go in the door turns out there's no seafood at all. All they do is sell Pacifico and these things they call like caguamas, like those giant bottles of beer, and there's just people getting hammered in there and so me and my friend, we're like all right, fuck it.

Speaker 2: 1:57:01

Let's have. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:57:02

So we sit down, we start drinking from this caguama and we're sipping away and we're starting to get like we're starting to get. We haven't eaten. It was really stupid. It was like hipsy quick and super drunk.

Speaker 1: 1:57:14

And then this local guy starts talking to us and and like he's like, well, you know, blah, blah, blah, you know anything you guys need when you're here, I can, I can hook it up for you. Hook it up for you. And uh, um, he's like, you guys need any. You want, you want any weed or something like that. And we were dumb idiots. We were just like, yeah, we'd like to, I'll take some Mota. Yeah, yeah, we want to get high, and so like so, and we're at this point starting to get kind of well, pretty drunk, I think, you know, and we leave this. He lives kind of across the street from the bar. We leave the bar thing. He lives across the street from the bar. We leave the bar thing and he transaction outside gives us which turned out to be the most terrible marijuana, I think anyone has ever purchased in the world.

Speaker 1: 1:57:58

And then he leaves us be and then we just, our plan was okay, our hotel is adjacent, we can see it right there, so we're just going to walk in there, put that down, and then we're finally going to go get some food, because getting we're drunk and getting hungry. So we start walking across the street and then these two police officers approach us from behind and they're like, oh, what are you guys up to? What they knew? I mean, it was obviously set up pinpointing the situation, and uh, yeah, and so they put us up against the wall and like they go through this whole rigmarole where they take like everything out of our pockets. And like he felt it was in my pocket, he felt it, he knew where it was, and then he still went through the process of taking everything else out of my pockets and then they literally did this thing where he was like I guess they don't have anything on them. Oh, what's this? And they pull, they pull this weed out of my pocket, weed in mexico. I'm like what am I doing? What am I doing with my life? You know? Like I'm an idiot, you know?

Speaker 1: 1:58:53

And um, and as we're standing there, he's like they're trying to get us to like my my friend, john, just like, looks at me. He's like, do we gotta? Like they don't really speak anything, we gotta pay them right, like that's what's happening. And so my my friend says like, oh, like, well, what about get some, you know some money? And they start negotiating over there's an ATM, you guys can walk to the ATM.

Speaker 1: 1:59:15

And John points out to me he, just because they don't speak English at all, and he looks over and he goes dude, because these guys aren't even cops. And I was like what do you mean? He's like, look, they're not even wearing matching uniforms. And like their uniforms didn't match the other police that we saw they were wearing like thrift store. They had like hats, little plastic badge on or something it's like. At this point I'm like 60, 70 sure these guys are not cops, but also they're still like gray area that they are cops and and you're in a foreign country, yeah, and my buddy we're, by the way, we're being like this was a tight budget operation, like a very tight budget operation.

Speaker 1: 1:59:53

Like there were times in Guatemala where people were like give us money for the ride. And we were like, look, I don't know what to tell you. I genuinely can't give you that, even though it seems ridiculous for a gringo to not be able to pay you that. But anyway, we were really tight and we really couldn't like the amount of money they were talking about. That was like our mexico budget, you know. Like that was it.

Speaker 1: 2:00:12

And john was like I think we could just run man, like we could outrun these guys. I like john and so I was like, all right, let's do it. I was like let's do it. And so john is like I'm like I'm gonna grab our things because he's like talking to them and they're like kind of talking to him there and basically I turned to where they put everything we have, like everything was in our pockets. It's on this like windowsill, and I grab it all. I just jam his wallet, my wallet, into our pockets and I turn around and I look at him and I'm now high agitation because they're going to see that I took everything off the wall in about a split second. So I turn to John kind of is caught off guard and I go three, two, one and I go to the left and immediately mazatlan has these like three foot curves yes.

Speaker 1: 2:00:56

So I immediately just step right onto my face. So from john's from, from my perspective, john has taken off and I feel this guy grabbing up. He gets on my back, so I pop up on all fours and I throw him off of my back so he jumped on you, he jumped on me and I throw him off and I take off running and now I have like full throttle and this is like I don't have a.

Speaker 1: 2:01:23

I don't have a gps cell phone at this point in time. It's like, you know, and I'm just running and he's chasing me. I know he's chasing me and half of my mind I'm like what if he's chasing me? I know he's chasing me and half of my mind. I'm like what if he's a real cop? What if he takes a shot at me?

Speaker 1: 2:01:33

So I'm like zigging and zagging, you know, like dodging the Ace Ventura, yeah, and I'm running and running and running and I start realizing I'm gaining on him and, by the way, it is like 100% humidity.

Speaker 1: 2:01:51

It's so hot, you know, I'm drenched, I'm bleeding because I ate shit so hard on the ground, like I mean just fully ate shit, you know, and I'm running and I realize I'm out running him and like every time I turn a corner he's and I'm like soon I'm gonna turn the next corner before he turns the previous corner. Yeah, he's not gonna know. So I get to that point and then I keep going and I keep going and I'm just so out of breath and I ended ended up like hiding and I'll get back to what I ended up doing in a second, but I want to get back story back to like from John's perspective yeah, where did he go? So he's standing there and he unexpectedly hears me go, you ready. And he turns and I just, according to his reading, I went early. I go three, two, one and he says I take off.

Speaker 2: 2:02:26

Before he takes off, you said one, that means go.

Speaker 1: 2:02:29

He just sees me eat shit on the ground and he sees the other cop jump on me. So he just goes like this, Puts his hands up like hey, arrest me. And then I just go and throw this guy and take off running.

Speaker 2: 2:02:41

He stayed there, stayed there. He didn't run. He didn't run. It was his idea. The whole time it was his idea.

Speaker 1: 2:02:47

And so he just watches me sprint off. So finally the other cop came back and like they cornered him and they're like OK, now you're in big trouble, you need to pay us for everything. And he's like I don't want to tell you that dude just ran off with my wallet, like I took everything he had. He's like I literally can't pay you. And eventually I guess they just kind of it was weird Like he said that they just their story started seeming more and more unbelievable, like they didn't know what to do. They were getting and he realized that they weren't so they legit weren't real legit, weren't cops.

Speaker 1: 2:03:20

And he said I just started backing away from them and was like I'm not going to give you anything, I'm not. And they just let him back away and it just ended on my end.

Speaker 1: 2:03:29

I am completely lost because I have been like purposefully running in, like zigzags get attacked by dogs and I'm so lost, I'm bleeding and dirty and this poor family, I just like I just it was like a random house and the door was like a jar into their like pantry but I could see them watching tv, so like it felt like the least evase, invasive of all the surrounding homes and I just kind of tapped on the door and was like hola, and I'm just bleeding and I'm like do you know where this hotel is? And they were like yes, you need to go there. And then they got me back and like yeah, we eventually met up and it was, it was fine. But yeah, that was, that was nuts. Yeah, holy lessons to anyone. Don't be an idiot and buy street marijuana in in in mazatlan, mexico. Yeah, that was a really stupid thing.

Speaker 2: 2:04:18

Oh my god, I guess that story's on the record now. Yeah, yeah, it was a long time ago.

Speaker 1: 2:04:23

Yeah, you're good, yeah, yeah, um. So we made it. We went through chiapas when the hell is that? That's the last state in Mexico and then we crossed over on foot no, with a big rig into Guatemala and every country we crossed over to at least Mexico and Guatemala was like maybe we're not going to be able to do this anymore. We didn't know what to expect because Guatemala is considerably different from Mexico More impoverished, all that kind of stuff. But Guatemala was great and we ended up hitchhiking up into the mountains in Guatemala.

Speaker 1: 2:04:53

We stopped at a place we did a Spanish school for a little while, like Lago de Atitlan, which was kind of cool because we learned like a little bit more Spanish, you know. And then we went up to, we went to this really rural Guatemala and it got to a point where you just felt everyone there, there's only a few vehicles and everyone rides in the back of the car anyway and you kind of like you're sitting hanging off the back of a pickup pretty much all the time anyway, with everyone else. It's like there's one vehicle and like you and like six other people are jumping in and we just got so comfortable with it. I got to admit it was feeling like just kind of like. Yeah, you just felt like this is gonna be a very cheesy way of seeing saying it, but like almost like one at one with the environment, like I'm dirty head to toe, sleeping outside every night, jumping in the back of trucks, going wherever I want I mean, you just felt free.

Speaker 2: 2:05:45

You know, you just felt free where it's clicking everything.

Speaker 1: 2:05:48

Yeah, it was just clicking and and we just felt like we were good at what we were doing. At that point too, we were on it. We had a system where, like, there were points in Mexico where it felt like, you know, you would feel like eyes on you and it's not so much like, maybe, narco, it's just like the townspeople Guatemala across to Belize, down through Belize back into Guatemala to get into, uh, honduras. Then we actually crossed, well, in El Salvador, sorry, then into Honduras, and we actually crossed Honduras. Because I read in some Lonely Planet book so there's a Caribbean side and on the Caribbean side you could hitch a ride in a boat, it said, around into this La Mosquitia rainforest in Nicaragua, which, so we hitchhiked across the Caribbean side. There's no roads to Nicaragua from the Caribbean side, you can only go by water, and it turns out, yeah, you can waste a ton of time with that story okay, I'm, I'm in this, okay because this, this story, so we cross over this.

Speaker 1: 2:06:55

This was an absolutely nuts story. Yeah, so we crossed. I want to hear all of them. Okay, so we crossed honduras. So basically there's the pacific coast or the pacific highway or something which goes all the way through central america to it gets to panama and then it stops at the Darien Gap, you know, yep, and on the Pacific, the Caribbean coast there's no, there's a huge rainforest that separates Honduras and Nicaragua, which it's like very difficult to get into. And they had this Lonely Planet books which are called like Central America, on a shoestring, like how to, how to go for cheap, and we had one of those and we would like flip through. That's how we find, like, the cheap hostel. Okay, look, this is the cheapest place to go.

Speaker 2: 2:07:33

It's like you know this is pre-cell phone, you're not just googling this, yeah we had paper maps.

Speaker 1: 2:07:37

You know back pockets filled with paper map. We had legit compasses, like we would get dropped in town and just be like okay, on the map there's a river. Oh no, there's a. Okay. So if we can get to the river, we know which direction we're going and we can go from there, you know. And so we cross Honduras and we get to this town called like La Ceiba, I think it's called and immediately we realized that whoever wrote this in this Lonely Planet book is completely full of shit. Like it's a legit industry with like boats coming in and out, like you know they're not going to take you know they're not taking like random kids into, you know into, like they've got like insurance and shit. They're working for US companies and they're doing international. Okay, it's a port.

Speaker 2: 2:08:18

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:08:20

And so we're there for like two days and it's raining the whole time, that like Caribbean soft rain where it's like just doesn't stop. You know what I mean? He doesn't stop, you know what I mean. And we were like, oh fuck, I guess we're going to have With this point. We decided a while back that we didn't have enough money to make it to Argentina and rather than rush, we'd be better to go slowly through Central America. So we bought tickets out of Costa Rica for a certain date, planning ahead from about where we were in Guatemala when we left. It would take us about a month, you know. And so now we've gone all the way across honduras and we're like there for two days and we're like we're gonna have to hitchhike all the way back across honduras against the same road because there's only one and then we'll be back where we were like all these days before.

Speaker 1: 2:09:05

So we were bummed and we were like really hoping this boat thing would come together and literally I swear, like a couple hours before we were about ready to give up, this pickup truck just pulls over and this guy is like you guys are you guys, are the kids trying to get into a boat to go into the marine forest, right?

Speaker 1: 2:09:20

and we're like yeah, he's like, come with us, man, we got boats, we're going, we leave, we leave tonight. And we were like okay, really, yeah, like let's just do this. We're idiots. We were. We jump in the back of this pickup truck, there's like three other guys in the back of the pickup truck and we drive away from the main port, which is clearly established port, to this like private gated spot where there's like armed guards out front. Okay, and it opened.

Speaker 1: 2:09:45

An armed guards open the gates the armed guards do and we drive in and there's like this kind of this mansion, a giant roundabout with a huge fountain, and then in the corner there's this small port with these horribly dilapidated fishing boats. I mean, they're in rough shape and first thing they have us do is they're just like look, we need to load all these fiberglass canoes onto the boat. I guess they fish for conch shells, they dive down and they pull them up, you know, and um, and they were like, yeah, we need, we need to, we need to get all these under the boat. And we were like, sure, we'll help, you know. So we're like helping to move them all. The fiberglass was wet, we just got coated.

Speaker 2: 2:10:22

Oh, it was brutal, but that's a side thing.

Speaker 1: 2:10:24

Then we get on the boat that evening and the boat just like doesn't start, something's wrong. You know our spanish is not superb. We're kind of figuring out like something's going on with the engine or the pump, some pump. You know we're not really sure, but they're like we're gonna, we're gonna fix it first thing in the morning, okay great. And then instead of going to bed, they get blackout drunk and do a ton of cocaine. All the guys who are working on the boat who, by the way, all looked pretty like shifty, like they look like characters, would you like? You know, in a lineup you'd be like that guy did it, like you know all of them, you know, and like man, they getting like hammer drunk that night

Speaker 1: 2:11:03

and they were up all night and like by like three in the morning, one of them was like waking us up, like asking us for cash so we can buy more drugs. It'll split with us. And we're like, no, no man, no. So they're up the whole night. Next day they don't do shit because they're so hung over. Yeah, and the afternoon the captain is like you guys want to see something. He takes us on land and they've got a jaguar in a cage.

Speaker 2: 2:11:24

It wasn't theirs, it was someone else's there was you were 100% of like el Chapo's freaking one of his side mansions.

Speaker 1: 2:11:31

So later on in the trip, when we were on the boat, the guy did, so you actually got going. Eventually he did admit to us. He admitted to John, not to me, John was with him talking and he basically said like, yeah, we go out down towards you know the direction of South America, because from that point it's not that far to get there. He's like you know, maybe we catch some fish. He's like maybe we also get some cocaine. They put it under inside the, underneath the fish. Yeah, like, that's like. He just admitted it was a drug smuggling thing, you know you find yourself on a drug smuggling boat.

Speaker 2: 2:12:03

Yeah, and yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:12:05

So we on it, like on this boat, and they did get it to run finally that next evening and we leave that evening and like, yeah, we're in this like choppy seas. I'm getting seasickness, everyone was getting seasickness. There was other people on there who were just locals from the La Mosquitia rainforest and they were riding with us and they were like, yeah, some of those people were getting really sick, like I don't think they were used to it, but I was also like queasy, you know, the whole night and we rode for like a couple days, I think, on this thing and then when we got to where we were going which we didn't know where we were going they were just like we're going to take you to the spot where you can get off and go into the rainforest. This dugout canoe came out like to the edge of the boat. They turn it next to it Like dugout up. You know one of those ones from like a tree and there there's no like way to get off the higher boat we're on down to.

Speaker 1: 2:12:52

We just like throw our bags, we all jump into the canoe and it there's two dudes in the canoe, one of them running a little like, you know, four stroke, two stroke maybe, I don't know motor, and the other one is just bailing out this hole furiously like that's his job, it's just yeah, I think it's filling up, you know, and so we all jump in and it's already like about water level, and we've got this gear, we don't want to get wet and they drive it into shore and when we get close to shore he just broadsides the thing and it just completely collapses, you know. And so we all get out and we run in and, yeah, we're just in this like jungle village. We were there for two days.

Speaker 1: 2:13:26

Everyone was in these like lived in these huts that were like up on stilts, um, and they had like pigs and roaming, like, uh, you know, animals, like chickens, running around. We stayed with. There was one house that was made out of like concrete blocks, it was much bigger, and that guy like brought us in in the village and was like super suave. He had all these women like cleaning his house. He was barking orders at, you know, and we found out from him that he basically manages the gasoline like he oh, he's the middle man he's yeah, he's got the money there like, and he's kind of like the town, like the town wealthy guy in this tiny village.

Speaker 1: 2:14:03

So we had to get from where we were. There's a main, there's only one main, there's only one city in the rainforest, and to get there we had to take a dugout, another boat across, uh, and we had to wait like a couple days because it just wasn't going. We get over to that town and, yeah, it was just. The rest of the story is also really kind of crazy. Like there's only one truck that leaves the rainforest. There was at the time I was gonna ask how the hell did you get out of there? Yes, it's a really bad dirt road and there's one dude who has a pretty cool job. He's got like this, like kitted out Toyota, like the floor is like a grate, he's got the you know the exhaust that comes up over the hood. Oh, you're like in a Land Cruiser. Then, yeah, like pickup truck, one person in the front, the rest of us all in the back, and we drive all the way through the forest till we get to this river.

Speaker 1: 2:14:52

We then cross over the river to the other side and then we're in nicaragua, and in nicaragua. There was no one there to stamp our passports. Like we went to the immigration office, it was just a closed. There was no way to get your passport stamped, which became a problem. We had to pay people off when we tried to cross from nicaragua to costa rica, because the costa ricans were, just like you, were never officially in nicaragua and we were, like in our terrible spanish, being like no, no, let me explain. Like we crossed over and this and they just eventually just turned into like a money, money, but anyway, back in nicaragua, yeah, we tried to hitchhike and we couldn't. There's just no traffic, like there's impossible to. But there's a bus that leaves like once in every morning and takes people out and men on the roof, women inside, and so like we're on the roof of this old us school bus and they take us out. I do have cool footage from this actually.

Speaker 1: 2:15:42

Yeah, they took us out through um, basically across to the western side of Nicaragua again, and like it was brutal, it took all day on one bus. Then we got dropped and another bus, which was coming from a different part of the coast, picked us up for the night ride, and that one everyone was inside because it was going to go through the night and it was supposed to rain and the bus was completely full. There was nowhere to sit and we were trying to stand and, like my buddy and I were falling asleep and eventually we just asked if we could go back on the roof. We were like we'll be better on the roof and we just suffered. There was like a bunch of stuff under tarps and I remember we like pulled them up. We were like freezing and the trees were just high enough that like, if anything, like the trees were growing and the bus was the only thing that ever went on. So, if you like raised yourself up, it was like you would get hit by that. Oh yeah, and so we climbed under the tarp and there's already a dude under there Was there, yeah, and so me, my buddy and this dude the dude was just like Three of us just sat there until morning and then we finally got the best part was like the bus.

Speaker 1: 2:17:00

They were that second bus. People were assholes to us. I don't know why Everything else in Latin America was, but those guys were making fun of us. They were like, oh, gringos can't find a seat. Like, no, you can't sit here. I don't know what that vibe was, but the bus I remember it blew over some huge. When we got the last laugh, everyone was stuck on the bus and we were just like later losers and we just started like thumbing a ride out of there.

Speaker 1: 2:17:16

You know that was hands down, that that full story from like being at that point Cause at this point we're now. It took us so long that we were. We made it to our flights in costa rica by. We got to san jose, costa rica, the night. We had an afternoon and a night and the next day was our flight. Like that, that that will go down in my life is like what the hell happened. That was amazing. Like that whole experience from getting in that boat with those you know I'd be.

Speaker 1: 2:17:48

That whole story is a podcast in its own I've written it down a few times just to like, so I don't forget it Like. I wonder yeah, are you ever going to write a book? I think probably would like to at some point.

Speaker 2: 2:18:00

Yeah, I've met a lot of people in my life. I I would highly suggest re writing a book.

Speaker 1: 2:18:04

All right, yeah, serious man, this is a. Yeah, you could come on anytime I was. Yeah, I'm glad, I'm glad. Yeah, yeah, that story, yeah, that's a hell of a. Yeah, that one's always you have lived a life. Yeah, I have footage from that too. I'm glad I have footage from that one, because I tell that one and people are like but I'm like, no dude, like you could see, you could see the boat. I didn't get footage of the jaguar, but I I got pretty much everything else around it.

Speaker 2: 2:18:28

Yeah there's lions, jaguars, leopards. There's coke involved there's a coke dealer. At some you're in a kingpin somewhere I've never seen a wildcat?

Speaker 1: 2:18:36

have you seen a wildcat in a cage before it? Like, like, the guy who took us, the captain, was like he, he knew what he was doing. He was like come on, get closer, get closer, get closer. And the cat is poor thing. The cat cage was tiny, you know, and when you got close to it, oh my God, the speed that it slashed at me, like like I mean, it would absolutely rip my face off. You know, like, but of course you know it's in a cage. Like yeah, yeah, man, yeah, those things, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:19:04

So from here, you're, you're, uh what's your goal?

Speaker 1: 2:19:07

So I really you're, you're, uh, what's your goal? So I really I wanted to come here like I want. Like I said, I watched a couple of your episodes and or listened to a couple of them actually, and basically I'd wanted to hitchhike straight here yeah but I got caught in yakima, which I think I mentioned to you earlier, and ended up just stopping in a place.

Speaker 1: 2:19:23

So I, I, I broke, I broke lines with the, and I rented a car yesterday, drove to here to do this. Tomorrow morning I'm gonna since I have a car right now I'm gonna be taking care of a bunch of things. I need to get, like I need an extra pair of socks. That was a flaw. Three is not enough. Yeah, yeah, they're all the like like I, I wash it. They're like the the running like synthetic socks, and I, I wash them, but you still only get like two runs out of it. So, so I need, like I need, several more pairs of socks, yeah, yeah. And then I'll basically go back to where I left off. I'm trying to remember the name of the town Central Oregon.

Speaker 2: 2:19:59

Okay.

Speaker 1: 2:20:00

Tomorrow return the car, then I'm going to hitchhike south and west because eventually I want to get past the five in Oregon over to that coastal route I think it's route one. It goes down and get like a different taste. I feel like I came through central washington, which is, I mean, basically I think my understanding from what I've been told is washington and oregon. It's like the cascades are basically like a political divide.

Speaker 1: 2:20:24

Yes, and so I came through central, I came through idaho and like the eastern side of washington and I'm going to cut across and do the western side of oregon and kind of see what the vibe is on the coast there coast is dope man really yeah, yeah it's like roseburg, all that, um, right on the border you have.

Speaker 2: 2:20:45

anyways, where did you shoot your deer kid that big your black tail, do you remember? Um, yeah, but it's, it's beautiful over there. Beautiful, yeah, I love the coast of Oregon.

Speaker 1: 2:20:56

I went there on the first trip that I did when I was like 21. And it's crazy how little I remember that was like that first hitchhiking trip. I have like glimpses in my memory and I have the video footage I still have of how beautiful it is, but I video footage I still have of how beautiful it is, but I don't know that town that you're talking about. I don't remember. So I'm really excited to go, like soak that in it's cool people.

Speaker 2: 2:21:14

Yeah, it's all pretty awesome.

Speaker 1: 2:21:16

From there. I'll probably I haven't decided with California I'd like to go down the Sierras. Okay, I want, like maybe central California in the north, which is kind of sketchy, is going to call for hitchhiking because, unless it's changed, since I was there years ago, they used to have a lot of trouble with drugs and poverty, which for me, makes me look, it makes me look way scarier.

Speaker 2: 2:21:35

people are more afraid of me you know I never would have guessed the poorer, the more drug related areas. Obviously that that's a challenge for you. If you're in like active, outdoor lifestyle-ish areas, people are like, oh, he's just an adventurer and you find it a little bit easier to get around.

Speaker 1: 2:21:51

There's a line and it's really interesting because this is interesting. Class is a really interesting thing with the hitchhiking. Okay, on the one hand, if you're in an area like you're talking, about outdoorsy people, they have a little bit of money, they're not like they're not like kind of living in pure poverty, you know like they've got jobs, they're kind of establishing their lives. So it's like middle class to like a higher middle class. You know that is excellent. But you cross over to a line where people are like you know, driving like really nice cars and they're like they've got super nice houses. You know like they're not wanting you there.

Speaker 1: 2:22:26

Since we're in Idaho, I'll say, like McCall, those aren't Idahoans.

Speaker 1: 2:22:34

Those are there and since we're in idaho, I'll say like mccall, uh, that that was. Those aren't idahoans. Those were all the rich cal. Oh, they all have oregon california plates. Yeah, exactly, and that you get that vibe where all of a sudden they're just like disgusting. On the other end, people who are poorer, it feels like they have empathy and perspective a lot of times, like there's just this sense, like I mean the amount of people I'm glad that I speak more spanish now.

Speaker 1: 2:22:52

I rode three hours of the guy the other day who he lives in the yakima valley. Yesterday actually, um and um, he's lived there almost his entire life. He doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't speak english, he's you know, um, he like he's, he's a permanent resident here, you know, and like he works and lives in an apple packing factory there. And yeah, that's like there's this kind of this warmness that you get from people, I think, who empathize with. This is someone on the road, I'm going to help them out and yeah, I mean, I picked out someone who is Mexican, but honestly, it's a class thing. It's not like other demographics.

Speaker 2: 2:23:32

It's a class thing. I'm so glad you said this. It's interesting and I've noticed this my whole life. But the people with more money are so much more willing to not help, rather than somebody that almost has nothing, maybe just a shirt on their back. I feel your middle class to poorer class are willing to give up and help so much more, so much faster than a wealthier person.

Speaker 1: 2:23:56

And that middle to lower class. Like I grew up, my family, I think my parents did they were really great with money and like they grown from like a certain level of middle class to a higher level of like middle class and I remember kind of just growing up like we would you go sit with family and you do things like hey, we're gonna go over to your uncle's house or and we're gonna everyone's gonna have a couple and there's gonna be some drinks, there'll be some peanuts and chips on the table, we're gonna talk about family and life and like there's this like commonality of people who, like have more of a working class experience. I felt that in Mexico, a hundred percent, come on into the house, sit down, we'll take care of you, and that goes from upper middle class, I think, to really low, but like the extreme. Then desperation becomes a thing.

Speaker 1: 2:24:46

And when desperation is part of the culture drugs, extreme poverty then nobody's picking you up because they're afraid that you're part of that desperation. Even if they're not that desperation, they know that that desperation is kind of in that area that they're in and, like you kind of look like you might be part of that desperation. So, yeah, actually, now that we I'm like talking out my own understanding of this. Yeah, it basically it's like the whole chunk of middle class people are great, but the extremes on the other end are terrible for anything in life yeah, yeah, but people don't realize that because you think the wealthy would be like oh, let's get, let's help this guy, what do you need?

Speaker 2: 2:25:18

let's go. But no, no, definitely not, and I was up to definitely not.

Speaker 1: 2:25:22

Yeah like I got picked up in central, uh, idaho by a guy in a mercedes and I, when he pulled over, I was like what is happening? Like I almost don't even stick my thumb out. I do because it's like it's a numbers game, you never know. But when he pulled over it turned out it was just like some kid whose dad let him borrow the car. I was like, well, your dad definitely wouldn't have picked me up in this car, you know.

Speaker 2: 2:25:41

Yeah, yeah, you're the first Mercedes.

Speaker 1: 2:25:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's breaks yeah, but to finish your earlier question, so I will go to la I think, and then I'll fly from la.

Speaker 1: 2:25:52

I haven't decided I was gonna do texas too, but I, it's just gonna be too hot man, yeah, it's just gonna be too miserable. I want to do west virginia. I've spent time there. It's like hiking. I've hitched. It's gonna be brutally hard. I know it's going to be because it has southern west virginia has like a kind of uh, it's got a rough history. You know, like that, that coal mining region and what has happened there in terms of like the decimation with oxycontin which then turned in, it's like ground zero for something that's become a nationwide problem. Right, you know, and. But I've been there a few times and like I mean, I'm scottish heritage, appalachia, it resonates with me. They've got this folk music history. It's a hard working class culture. I think it's good people who have just been through some shit.

Speaker 2: 2:26:40

Be interested. I want to follow up and see how that is. Because you want the stigma. You want to judge West Virginia. Because there's nothing ever good that you hear. You don't hear anything good, god, it's someone. What's so?

Speaker 1: 2:26:50

beautiful. What's absolutely? And they have that because I wrote a piece about, uh, like how the oxycontin thing happened years ago and and you learn the history of that area it is just particularly that that that region of southern west virginia has just been a victim. They've been victims of abuse or manipulation for so long, like it was like the. My understanding and I'm not historian, let's just make a huge disclaimer there but my understanding is the earliest settlers of that area were mostly Scotch and Irish folks who, like the coastal areas, were kind of being bought up in the United States with this all this huge amount of migration, and if you were poor and you couldn't get in on it, you went into the mountains and they lived essentially the way that they had been. A lot of people had been living in the Highlands in Scotland, which is like roaming kind of culture, you know, and so, because it wasn't established, like they didn't have property laws and firm.

Speaker 1: 2:27:47

Again, I'm not a historian but uh, what I do know is what definitely happened was once coal was discovered in the land there, the, the residents were not equipped, I think, to handle how they were about to be manipulated by people who were willing to come in and buy up a whole bunch of land and then they essentially became indentured slits, you know, servants and and that has, like that's a whole culture that grew. I mean, like they don't even that part of west virginia. I always say that, like the, the terrain is like a bulldog's neck, like it just kind of goes up and down. You can't even build highways. They build highways around it, you know, and so for that reason I think they it's like kind of a an awesome. I don't want to glorify like I think people romanticize it too and I'm prone to that, but I do think it has like a, a rich sense of cultural integrity and then also a shit ton of suffering. You know at which poverty yeah, and when you?

Speaker 2: 2:28:42

I know you've seen it. Yeah, true poverty. Yeah, kids have never brushed their teeth, fucking rat hair. They're wearing clothes that they've probably had on for the last month or two. Yeah, that's what, like that's where it hits home and you see, and then that, and how nobody just genuinely cares and they're just left out there and it's so sad, I mean it's I can't imagine being the military.

Speaker 1: 2:29:04

I mean, you must have seen. I've seen it in, yeah, in places in Latin America and I was learning recently about how someone was saying the best thing we can do to improve education in the country is improve eating. Children literally aren't, who are that malnourished, their brains aren't developing, they're not getting enough to actually have the capacity to learn what they would if they were getting enough to actually have the capacity to learn what they would if they were getting, like you know, enough protein and carbohydrates every day.

Speaker 2: 2:29:35

Back to fuck the government, because if they truly cared about us like they would, our kids wouldn't be eating the shit they're eating in these schools and we'd be going out of our way to help who we need to help. Yeah, yeah, it's tough and it's sad man, sad man. It's sad when you see and I'm really now that I know you're gonna head that way eventually. I'll definitely gonna be looking forward to that because I'm you know, I'm an east coast originally. Yeah, I love the east coast and everything about it and the culture and the history and all the little pockets of communities that.

Speaker 2: 2:30:01

yeah, man, I've driven through some areas in virginia west west virginia and you go down some roads and you're like they're like just plywood homes yeah and then there's like a kid standing at the makeshift mailbox and you're just like weird what is not stop yeah, that's one of those places, dude like oh yeah, yeah, I had a journey trying to hitchhike in west virginia because I've done it before.

Speaker 1: 2:30:24

Like you can't walk the roads. Like I said I like to walk. You got to stand on the bend in the road because there's no shoulder.

Speaker 1: 2:30:29

You know, like at least in the south part of the, you just have a strip, and then it's just ditch or woods, and then eastern kentucky has a similar experience. Yeah, you know, um, and so I think, coming through that, that little cluster where virginia meets tennessee meets I think it's north carolina, it's like all the states kind of like meet in a one. But anyway you blast through that and you find yourself basically eventually in Atlanta, georgia. And if I've still got I still got time, energy, I would like to finish by crossing basically the Bible belt, like going straight West to the Mississippi river.

Speaker 1: 2:31:06

I think it would be cool to cross that part of Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama. We'll see. I also don't have to finish the whole thing. I mean, my wife might eventually put the brakes on, but for good reason, right? I mean let me just say it.

Speaker 2: 2:31:25

I have a feeling, though and I hope I'm right with your personality and who you are, and then the, the story behind this, and if you, obviously having a journalist background, you're going to be able to capture the, the mission on it I own. When I found your page and I looked, I'm like this guy must just start it like yeah and I'm like this is fascinating. And now hit this conversation. I'm like dude, it's a matter of time, you're gonna be fucking yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:31:52

Well, even if I what I was trying to say too is, even if I have to stop. What I realized in this last couple weeks is two days of hitchhiking. I pack in so many interviews like I could literally I could literally reformat this project and take like a three-day weekend once a month and still do a steady stream of content. That's not what I want to do at first. I want to get a surge of this through, but, like the Texas thing, okay, maybe I don't want to do it now, but I can if I, you know, if I find a way to keep this project going during the break where I'm like doing something else, I'll go out and do Texas in October or November.

Speaker 2: 2:32:31

You know what I mean. Like yeah, yeah, yeah, when it's nice to be going out in texas, yeah, which is a short span of time, pretty short period. Yeah, dude, what's the? What's your favorite state that you've been in so far?

Speaker 1: 2:32:40

that's hard to say because I've done a lot of hitchhiking in a lot of the states. Uh, I did do some hitchhiking in texas before and was surprised at how amazing texas in the winter. I tried to do a version of this project once in December 2019. I tried to do a test run, which I still had a job, so I didn't know how I was going to do it. I just want to test it out. I did that in Texas, if you remember what December 2019 was, when it froze, covid came like the next month and I was telling people I'm like I can't be hitchhiking during this period of our lives.

Speaker 1: 2:33:16

You know Like there's no better way to spread disease than be the guy who like literally gets in everyone's car, you know. And so Texas was surprising. Honestly, idaho Because part of it is how beautiful this place is makes a difference. A secondary thing is like those beautiful places tend to lead to almost like people who like love where they live and like central Idaho just had this like really like I was kind of Idaho's always been like a black box on the map for me. It's like, oh yeah, you got the Cascades, you got the Rocky Mountains, you got the Sierra Nevadas, and then, like I think it's mountainous there, you know like, and I go going through it. It was just like, yeah, I mean, mean, I'm doing the thing that everyone in idaho told me not to do, which is like promote how great idaho is because all the californians, they're already coming.

Speaker 2: 2:33:54

They're already coming like yeah, yeah but uh, um, it's incredible here.

Speaker 1: 2:33:59

It's. It's incredible here. I've other spots I mean colorado, in the western side. Yeah, I feel like there's a sweet spot between rich culture and outdoorsy enough where I I look a certain way to people that it's just like Alaska. I don't know if I'll ever go back to do it, but like Hitchhiking Alaska was awesome, you know, and people don't give a shit, they all are armed to the hilt, so like, and they pull over. And the amount of times someone pull over and be like not trying to scare you, but just so you know 45 Magnum right here and you're like all right.

Speaker 2: 2:34:31

Well, that's how I would be If I picked you over. I'd be like fuck around find out. Yeah, exactly, let's just be upfront. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 2:34:37

And I totally respect that Okay. Yeah, of course, because it's like moment. So you're like you're upwardly escalating in the really in a positive way. It's funny. I've thought about the gun thing a lot when I was younger. I've kind of just stuck with the ethos I set for myself at 21, which is like I'm not bringing weapons with me. That was my next question.

Speaker 2: 2:35:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:35:05

Why don't you? I'm rethinking a little bit now. I think at that age I was so new to the hitchhiking I was afraid that I would be the guy who created the problem Like that. I would get scared and all of a sudden I'm whipping out a weapon when there's nothing going on.

Speaker 1: 2:35:23

You know, and some dude's like swerving off the road and so, yeah, I didn't. I'm rethinking it a little bit now. Now I think at the least I should have some sort of primitive, I mean like a bear mace, but then again a bear mace, get ready for the car crash, because as soon as you spray, nobody wins. As soon as you spray a driver who's trying to hurt you I hope you got your seatbelt on get in the ditch. What's funny is sitting in my house at home my parents had a neighbor they got a camp up in Maine and neighbor she left and she gave a gift to my parents and she left this little. I don't even know what the weapon is. It's this little tiny Smith Wesson. It's tiny and my parents didn't know what to do with it and so, just as I was preparing for this trip, they were like look like when we drive down to go to arizona, because they drove down, they're like we're, can we drop this weapon off?

Speaker 1: 2:36:21

You're, maybe maro would want something, because her and I have been talking about getting out of the range like, for it's been years since I've been shooting regularly and we live in texas now. So I found a guy in in austin, who wants to go hunting with me. So I want to get my guns, you know. And so, um, we said yeah, because then tomorrow I'll have something, you know. And so this little tiny gun, we bring it out. I'd even like, I barely looked at it, I locked it up, made sure it was secure, hid it away in our, in our, in our place, and now I leave on this trip and I'm like I should have taken that little thing to the range and brought it with me, that's like a perfect yeah, I mean there's.

Speaker 1: 2:36:54

There's also the gun laws. It's difficult to like state by state oh, for, sure, yeah, like I would have to probably not disclose and like I'd probably just be breaking the law a lot of the time. But I think people are.

Speaker 1: 2:37:05

I could do that like safely yeah you know, yeah, so I've thought about it definitely. Uh, up to this point, I've still taken the like, the ethos I did when I was a kid, which is like, what happens happens, but that's also not as true in my life anymore. You know, like I have people I mean, there were always people that love me, but I also have people who, like, at least depend on me. You know, it's like, so it is different now, and so it is a question that remains open, and I think, because the decision to carry a gun is such a change, it's probably a lot of thought before I make it.

Speaker 2: 2:37:39

Yeah, how dirty are people's cars Some people's cars are extremely dirty.

Speaker 1: 2:37:45

Yeah, that's a great question. By the way, there's just a subset of people who use their car as a trash. Can I think you've probably ran across someone like this before like, yeah, like two years of just fat, two years of just gross stuff, you know, and they're always supposed to be like, oh sorry, it's a mess, and you're like they're throwing shit in the bag as you're getting in and I also don't care that much because I'm like I'm just getting in the car and it's like let's see what this person's all about.

Speaker 1: 2:38:13

But yeah, there's a girl the other day, like she's basically I mean she might actually be in a bit of a a tough situation um, like she told me that her, her dad, she's living with her dad and she might be moving into her car soon, you know, uh, but inside her car she's. If she's not living in her car yet, she's already living. Like she's living in her car. I mean, it was just like filled with like food stuff that was like old and she's like throwing it in the back and I'm like where do you want me to put my bag? Because it's like all of her clothes are in the back and I'm like my bag's kind of dirty. She's like, oh, don't worry about it. She's like a very pick you up.

Speaker 1: 2:38:47

so it's probably like at least 95%, men I don't mean to interrupt you.

Speaker 2: 2:38:51

But like you said, and you're getting in like that blows my mind.

Speaker 1: 2:38:54

So so far on this trip, two women by themselves have picked me up. Both of them have been young.

Speaker 2: 2:39:01

Really.

Speaker 1: 2:39:01

Yeah, like and I. That's terrifying. Yeah, I feel the same thing, dude. Like I said this to, I said this the other day, like there's a part of my brain where I'm just like you shouldn't be picking me up. Like you know, I know that you're safe because I know what you're getting into.

Speaker 1: 2:39:16

But the conversation we had earlier about the differences for hitchhiking for men and women, I the same goes in the inverse. I get lots of women who, like they do me the service of like, waving and being like, acknowledging that like I can kind of tell that you're doing something cool, but there's no way I'm stopping my car. Respect, you know. Respect, yeah, um, there's another subset which makes up more of the women I've ridden with who are women, who have like their boyfriend or their husband or just a guy in the car with them, and so that does happen sometimes. I've had a. I think I've had three of those, but yeah, I've had two, you know, women myself, when I was hitchhiking in, I remember years ago in my like that earlier trip, I told you about like the first one when I came down to san francisco.

Speaker 1: 2:39:59

It was like almost dark in oregon or might have been washington, I honestly don't remember, and some woman pulled over with her two kids in the car her like, her like four-year-old daughter in the front and her infant son in the back. And she pulled over and I'm sitting in the car next to the infant son. It's like getting dark and I'm just like woman. I mean, obviously I'm being nice to her, but in my head I'm like woman. What are you doing? Like you know, like what are you doing?

Speaker 2: 2:40:27

That's how we end up as a statistic who am.

Speaker 1: 2:40:29

I to judge, but I'm judging, you know.

Speaker 2: 2:40:31

Yeah, yeah, like yeah, that's the best way to put it. Like I know you're safe, but like I can, what are you doing?

Speaker 1: 2:40:37

yeah, yeah, exactly crazy. So it doesn't happen that much. But you know most of them. Like the woman who picked me up in northern Washington, she works on the trails and like she works in the pacific crest trail like doing trail repel. I think it's people who have a real outdoor ethos and they resonate with they. They actually, like she knew the gear I had, she knew the back. Like I was gonna ask if you have a nice pack, and yeah, she knew the zipper pack. The zipper sleeping pack I have is this like cheap, old one that like now they all cost like 150 bucks and they're inflatable and it's like if you those old ones, they're reliable as shit. They cost 40 bucks. And she picked up on that and she was like I saw you had the z frame and I was like or I got what it's called like a z bed or, and she was she kind of twigged that like still, I think she's taking a chance with, like you know, a dude, but like yeah, I mean that was her.

Speaker 1: 2:41:25

And this other girl was very, very of the like I don't want to. I didn't, wasn't her? The vibe she gave off, I don't know. Her was like super, like hey, hippie, like I love to be helping people out and so she picked me up and like, but yeah, I was. I was really surprised that she picked me up. The first girl was like she had like a kind of rugged, tough edge to her. I mean she has trail work. The second girl was like she had like a kind of rugged, tough edge to her. It's just trail work.

Speaker 2: 2:41:57

The second girl was like all like dolled up on makeup on her way home from work like looking nice and I was just like, I guess girl like thank you for the ride, but don't do this again. Yeah, again as you close the door, I appreciate you. Don't do this again.

Speaker 1: 2:42:02

Don't do this again, yeah, exactly yeah, I'm just saying like I would never, but like just someone could. Yeah, very easily yeah, or just take advantage. That's the thing. The amount of stories I have my early 20s of men making sexually suggestive things to me, or even just being a man, I think you've probably had this in your own life. Just being around dudes who just some of the shit. Some dudes say, just like bro, like for sure, come on, like you're.

Speaker 1: 2:42:29

You're kind of like I don't have a daughter, but like I wouldn't want my daughter around, that you you know, what I mean, like yeah, it's just knowing that, that whole sexual side of it, like that's yeah, I just wouldn't do it as a woman. You know, I'm sorry, I like yeah, it's a yeah facts, man, facts are facts. But I'm sure there's a lot of women that are gonna listen, be like, yeah, I wouldn't do it either yeah, most all the women I talked to are like, yeah, that I would never do that, like they're pretty matter of fact about it and I I agree with them yeah yeah, dude, I appreciate this conversation.

Speaker 2: 2:42:59

I know you got some chores to do and you got some running around, but yeah, well, you woke me up.

Speaker 1: 2:43:03

this was fun. I came in here like I was driving here, like, oh shit, I'm so tired, I, I hope, I hope I can speak, but like, yeah, we had this is great, this is fun yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:43:11

This is how it goes, man. We really don't have it like a an agenda. We just I just sit down and have conversations and, yeah, I do. This was great. If you ever come back through Idaho, man, I'll pick you up. You got a place to crash. We could. I'll get you on the episode again. This was I'll be following along, for sure. So if anybody wants to follow, yeah, your journey, where can we find you?

Speaker 1: 2:43:32

yeah, so the, the youtube and the. Well, the project's called american awe as an awe, uh, like the emotion of awe. So american awe um, I'm on tiktok is at american awe. Um, you could search me on instagram as the title american awe, but, but it's my um, it's my personal Instagram account, which is Luke white. Um, but American awe, that's also the YouTube channel. So I mean, if you, if you Google American awe, I'm going to come up somewhere pretty close to the top there, especially if you add the word hitchhiking to it. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:44:04

Yeah, yeah, we'll have it all linked. So I'll have you send me all that and we'll get it all linked, but for all just the the audio, people want to make sure they they get it. Man, yeah, I appreciate your time. This was great. I appreciate you making the effort to come over here. I know you were. You were kind of I'll be here this day, maybe this day, maybe this day, and I was like dude, whatever works chill.

Speaker 1: 2:44:22

I was like I didn't know what your schedule was. I was like I was like I mean, I guess he'll, he just I guess he going to also just have to make it work, because I can't, I'm like it's reality, it's unpredictable, but yeah, this is solid. I really, really appreciate your struggle.

Speaker 2: 2:44:33

We spend a lot of time on the road and don't plan anything, we just end up where we end up. So when?

Speaker 2: 2:44:39

you're like I don't really know and I'm like, all right, cool. That's why I was like just let me know when you're in to go through and battle an addiction. I mean, this is this is the whole point of the show is just talking to people, and it's amazing how many people relate to our guests, because there's something that they take from every episode. Yeah and uh, we, I get to do this with my kid and we get to have all these awesome conversations and yeah, that's how we do it. So awesome.

Speaker 1: 2:45:10

Thank you, I appreciate you, yeah yeah, this was great.

Speaker 2: 2:45:12

This is great. Yeah, I, I, oh yeah.