#81 Charged by a Bear - Predator Control vs. Conservation: The Truth You’re Not Supposed to Say w/Jenn Rivet

A sow at six feet. Cubs overhead. A guide holding a hard line. The moment cracks open fast—and it never lets up from there. We break down what a charging bear is really saying: the pinned ears, the jaw clacks, the bluff rushes that test your calm and your conviction. Because out here, panic kills—and composure keeps you alive.

Then we dig into the work no one films. Thousands of pounds of bait dragged through thick Alberta timber. Barrels and beavers hauled deep to pattern sex and size. The long, quiet sits where ethics are measured not by what you take, but by what you let walk.

Predator management gets stripped of the politics and the pretty words. Bears and wolves multiply faster than moose and deer; spring calves and fawns don’t stand a chance without balance. “Let nature take its course” sounds noble—until the helicopters come, until the snares replace hunters, until the meat goes to waste. This is conservation rooted in data, discipline, and respect.

We revisit the spear hunt that broke the internet—and what it taught us about storytelling, perception, and earning trust in the middle, not the extremes.

And beneath all of it runs faith, family, and legacy. A 36-year marriage built on Jesus Christ. Kids raised to ask hard questions. Grandkids learning to shoot a .410 and skin what they take. A health scare labeled “a miracle” by pathology—and a peace before surgery that can only be called divine.

The conversation ends where it began: stewardship. Manage predators. Use the meat. Tell the story well. And always keep a warm place at the table for those who need it most.

If this hits home, share it with a friend, follow the show, and leave your take on ethical predator management—we’ll read the best on air.

To learn more about The Rivets and their outfit, visit: https://therivetco.com/ and follow their journey on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/jennrivet_/?hl=en  and  https://www.instagram.com/johnnyrivet/?hl=en

Chapters

• 0:00 A Close Call With A Sow
• 5:20 Meet Jen: Life, Work, And Faith
• 14:20 Marriage, Foundations, And Raising Kids
• 24:30 Seasons Of Business And Family
• 31:00 Why Predator Management Matters
• 41:30 Bear Baiting: Work, Ethics, And Myths
• 54:30 Behavior Of Bears And Field Safety
• 1:02:00 The Spear Hunt Controversy And Fallout
• 1:17:20 Respect, Storytelling, And Public Perception
• 1:26:30 Feeding Communities With Wild Game
• 1:37:30 Grandkids, Legacy, And Teaching
• 1:47:30 Canada vs. U.S.: Guns, Health Care, Tariffs
• 2:02:00 COVID’s Hit On Outfitters And Survival
• 2:12:30 Providence, Miracles, And Paying It Forward
• 2:20:00 Dominion, Faith, And Final Reflections

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

How did you find yourself between a mama bear and her cubs?

SPEAKER_02: 0:03

This one was intense. We're just getting ready to walk down the trail towards where you cut into the bait. He's like, somebody bring me an effing gun. Here comes the salve bolting out of the bait, six feet away from us. Cubs went up the tree, tough and puffing froth that ears pinned and she was coming, and then he comes running out of the bait. She was not having it.

SPEAKER_00: 0:39

You guys are rolling through town. I snatched you up, Jen. You uh you got volunteered for this one because your husband said absolutely. Well, he didn't say absolutely not, he just pointed at you.

SPEAKER_02: 0:49

So No, he just says take curse. He talks a lot.

SPEAKER_00: 0:51

Yeah, you're the talker of the bigger bears than I do. Yeah, so you live a very fascinating life. Um you eyes are you're a uh a bear outfitter out of Canada.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01

Yep, Alberta, Canada.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03

Alberta, which I had the pleasure of coming up and spending some time with you guys a few years ago, and then all hell broke loose. Oh, we should talk about that on this episode.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11

I know we should talk. We we should ask about we're going to. I'm talking about it. No, you guys, is it a touchy subject? No, I don't care. No, there's no we didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21

Yeah, we're just gonna talk what happened. We're not talking shit.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24

We're gonna talk facts, yeah. The what happened prior to the hunt and the repercussions of the actions of the hunt. Yes. That we had to deal with, yes, which is all public, and it's all just you have to work around these things when you're in this business. Okay, and sometimes it's not our choice.

SPEAKER_00: 1:40

Yeah, so and I happen to be in camp during this whole debacle that went down, and um, so we'll get to that. I want to talk Canada because just having dinner last night and just hearing what you guys deal with, it's wild to me of how comfortable we are here, and then like the little things that you guys just coming down talking about how our grocery stores, you can't believe how much selection barbecue sauces that we have. Like everything's so limited up there. Your beef isn't isn't the best quality. I mean, your produce is so we got we got some stuff to talk about. I want to talk bear hunting, and I want to talk what it is like living in the sticks of Alberta, Canada, running a hunting camp and raising grandkids and just a little bit of life. So let's jump into it. Where are you from?

SPEAKER_02: 2:23

Okay, so I'm Jen Rivet, hubby sitting over there. John Rivet. We own and operate Living the Dream Productions and the Rivet Co. in Alberta, Canada. We are big game outfitters and guides, uh, hunting and fishing product manufacturers, uh, grill specialists, wild game specialists, all that fun stuff. Uh, we've been married for way too long.

SPEAKER_00: 2:41

How many years? That's an accomplishment. Don't blow over that.

SPEAKER_02: 2:44

Okay, so this year will be 36 years.

SPEAKER_00: 2:48

Damn, good for you guys. Married or together?

SPEAKER_02: 2:51

36 years married.

SPEAKER_00: 2:53

I'm sorry, buddy.

SPEAKER_01: 2:54

She's never thought of divorce, but she's thought of murder. She needs a cover door punching all the time.

SPEAKER_00: 2:59

Yeah. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02: 3:00

Um, yeah, got together very young. Um, everybody back then would say, Oh, it's you're never gonna make it, you're never gonna, you know, it's not gonna last. We're still here. Yeah, we haven't thought about divorce, sometimes maybe punching each other, but other than that, no, it's pretty good. But that's all course of marriage, right?

SPEAKER_00: 3:17

Okay, so what's uh what is the secret to having a 36-year-long healthy marriage and working together? Because that adds a whole different dynamic.

SPEAKER_02: 3:28

So we're pretty much together 24-7.

SPEAKER_00: 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 3:30

Um, I met when I was 15, he was 18, 19.

SPEAKER_00: 3:34

You dirtbag.

SPEAKER_02: 3:35

Yeah. Um I left home at yeah, I left home at 16. Things weren't exactly great at home. Not the roughest, not the best, but anyways, things weren't great at home, so I left home. Um, what kept us together all these years is a belief in Jesus.

SPEAKER_00: 3:48

Really?

SPEAKER_02: 3:48

That's our foundation.

SPEAKER_00: 3:49

Really? From the start?

SPEAKER_02: 3:51

Yeah, when I was dating him, that's how I kind of got to know about the Bible and stuff like that. Never really that much got talked about.

SPEAKER_00: 3:59

So did he pull you in? Or was he? Yeah, he was.

SPEAKER_02: 4:02

He was. Um he started, well, he's raised Roman Catholic, right? And then I guess at about 14 is when he had an encounter with Christ and had a healing, he got prayed over, he was like really, really sick. Um, and his dad had found Christ. I know that sounds kind of cliche, but it was a life-changing experience, so you can't say it any other way. Um, so when I met him, things like I said, were rough at home. Yeah, he started talking, and it was just obvious. It's not like you went into somebody's home, it was like we were secret Christians or you know, secret whatever. It was just everywhere. Every night you prayed at your meal, you read the Bible together as a family, you prayed together, and that's how it was. So I was like, this is kind of cool, because I never experienced any of that. So started that at 15, probably just before I turned 16 about is when I was like all in, gave my life to Christ. Got kicked out of classes at school because I was still going to school then. Okay, like grade 11, grade 12. And uh I don't know if I should tell that story or not, but anyways, I got kicked out. I got kicked out of uh one of my classes. So back then, way back in the 80s, there was uh a class that they just started in Alberta called Life, and so it's supposed to teach you how to balance a checkbook, teach you about marriage, all of this different stuff. Well, it was also starting to text uh teach you about homosexuality, which I didn't know. I had no idea. I re I'm raised in the sticks in Alberta. I think I went to Edmonton like two or three times in my life, which is the big city in Edmonton.

SPEAKER_00: 5:23

And how far are you from Edmonton at this point?

SPEAKER_02: 5:25

Uh at that point, probably two hours. Okay. And we it was just like wedding or funeral. That's the only reason why we went. Family members, right? So, anyways, this is it is what it is. So here I am, like 16 years old in this life class. We have this teacher going up and he's teaching us about, you know, proper marriages, relationships, and all this stuff. I'm gonna get myself in so much trouble. But it's me. This is me. When I was young, I'm mellow now. Oh when I was young, I I it's the appearance thereof, right? It's whatever you present yourself on Instagram as that's who that's who you really are. 100%. Um but back then, yeah, I was very rebellious, plus because of how I was raised and how it was rough and stuff, anyways. So he's on the at the front of the class and he's talking and he's telling all this stuff, and I'm just like, what the because I'd never heard about this. I'm like, what the heck? So I'm talking to the guys because it was always the guys who would razz me up because that would get me up at the front of the class, so I'd say something dumb. So I'm like, put up my hand, I'm like, hey teacher, can I come up? I've got to write something on the board. And he was like, Oh yeah, for sure, come up. I says, Can I draw a diagram? And I'm like, he's like, okay, sure. And the guys are just rolling because they don't think I'm gonna do this. And I go up there, the smart ass that I was. Sorry, this is the illustration I did. So back then it was like the A plus an A is zero. A zero plus a zero is a zero. But an A, meaning the A was the penis symbol, okay plus a zero equals a baby. Boom, my ass got kicked out of that class for a week.

SPEAKER_03: 6:47

Really?

SPEAKER_02: 6:48

Oh, yeah. You can't do that in my class. You need to get out of here, you need to call your parents, you go to the office, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, and the guys are rolling, like they're laughing so hard, and I'm like, hey, I said I was gonna do it, I did it. So that was the rebellious. Okay, that was the rebellious, but, anyways, that was a long rabbit chase, but yeah, so we started dating at 15, and here we are.

SPEAKER_00: 7:08

Good for you, good for you, guys.

SPEAKER_02: 7:11

Yeah, and if it wasn't, as I said, like the Bible and that foundation of just truth and relying on God and being able to go back to Him to not because we we could have got divorced a thousand times.

SPEAKER_03: 7:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: 7:23

He he would say, Oh, don't say that. But there is, there's there's there's struggles, financial, health, family, relationships, other people, like every dynamic business you can think of comes at you. And unless you have something to fall back on as a grounding point where you can bounce back up off of, basically, in my opinion, you're screwed because you you you have to have that. You have to have some place where you can say, Okay, I'm at the bottom, but I have this instruction, this relationship, and it can take me back up, and then I I know I can succeed. Yeah, and that's that's why we're here.

SPEAKER_00: 7:53

Good for you guys. Anyway, that's that's a heck of an accomplishment.

SPEAKER_02: 7:56

It is, especially starting at 15 and 18 years old.

SPEAKER_00: 7:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 7:59

From two broken families, you you don't have a lot of hope. Nobody gives you a hope.

SPEAKER_00: 8:04

The odds are not in your favor of it.

SPEAKER_02: 8:05

They're stacked against you. And that was the other thing, is like we always and we raised four kids during all of this, and we were very poor at the beginning, but it was just like you just don't stop. You you can't stop working. No, you you can't you can't give up because there's bigger things than just you and your family as well. There's people you want to talk to, people you want to reach. I mean, you've got all these visions and aspirations of what you want to do as you grow individually as a couple, as a family, as a business. So it's just like, and we're still in that process. We're still, I still think we're we're getting there, but we're not there yet. We still have a lot more things we want to do.

SPEAKER_00: 8:37

I think that's the whole that's the best part of life. Yeah. Is you know, with that growth that we I, you know, I look at them as chapters. Yeah. And so it's and I call them seasons. It's seasons, exactly. We we teach it's a very great lesson that we teach our kids. Everybody and everything is a season or a chapter. And when the season moves on, it's okay to let it go and and and wait for the next season to come around. Yeah. It's that I think that is a huge thing, especially with business, because you're always what's next, what's next? Can we get more land? How do we get more tags? How do we build this? How do we scale this? And then once you get to that level, then what's the next season? What's the next chapter after that? And so, I mean, you guys have I've watched you for the last god, how many long, how many years have we known each other?

SPEAKER_02: 9:15

Almost I was trying to figure that out. We were talking about that last night, and we're like, okay, how many years have we actually since the first time we met you? And we're like, it's still lived in California, so easy.

SPEAKER_00: 9:25

Easy.

SPEAKER_02: 9:27

That's easy.

SPEAKER_00: 9:28

Um he met Utah.

SPEAKER_02: 9:30

Yeah. It's gotta be minimum twelve years, maybe thirteen years. Because we I think we met you at Shot Show, and that had to have been I'm gonna guess him and Jana. Yeah, maybe 2011.

SPEAKER_00: 9:47

Oh something. No, no, it had to be after that because I didn't get out until 2012. So it was 12 or 13? Yeah, or probably summers. Yeah, in there, and then yeah, we ended up coming up and visiting you guys, and and that was uh that was a heck of a trip. So okay, so backtrack a little bit. After you guys, after you graduated, yeah, where where do you go? You guys are young. Oh how long were you guys together before you got married or engaged?

SPEAKER_02: 10:10

So the back step was that is I was like a month away from graduating.

SPEAKER_00: 10:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 10:14

I I had to drop out of school. I had to go to work. We needed to we need to have a roof over our head. So I almost finished, and people like, oh, you shouldn't say that. I'm like, it was it is what it is. I mean, I've learned a thousand percent more than I ever did in school now, anyways. 100%. But it was like it was either do I stay in school and finish? Because I was doing it at home anyways at the end. And um, it was just like I tried, but then I had to go to work full time because we lived all together with his family, so we're helping his dad out. And we needed to, I mean, you need to pay the bills, you need to put foot on the table.

SPEAKER_00: 10:45

So you're telling me that you dropped out of high school and you were still able to build a very successful business and have an incredible family and raise awesome kids and not have to go to school?

SPEAKER_02: 10:53

No.

SPEAKER_00: 10:53

Imagine that.

SPEAKER_02: 10:54

Yeah, I knew how to read and write, yeah. And I could add one plus one is four. So um no, yeah, that it yeah. It's just um, I think it's the willpower, and you can't you you can't say, Oh, I'm gonna fail. It's just not part of it. Yeah, you think it sometimes because you're like, oh my god, where am I gonna go? How am I gonna succeed in this? But it's just you have a mindset of you have to succeed. Because if you don't succeed, you have all these people, your family, whatever, you you have to succeed. It's not like I do a nine to five job and it's like, hey, this is great. Like now they say, Oh, it must be so nice to own your own company and you can do whatever. And I'm like, people have no idea because it's like we can adjust to hours, except when it's hunting season, when we have clients in, then it's just all in 24-7, you don't breeze until it's done. Middle of April, we start, and until the end of June, that's it. That's eat, breeze, sleep, that's all you do. Um, but the bonus of having your own company was when the kids were going through school, say there was a volleyball tournament, and I coached and I refed and I did all of that. So it'd be like, oh, well, we're gonna go do that until 10 o'clock at night. Kids go to bed, whatever, the weekend. We work until one, two, three in the morning, get whatever we have to get done, and then we just roll with it. So that was you sacrifice on one end, but in reality, I I I look back now, I don't think it was a sacrifice of not having a nine to five job because I got to participate in my kids' lives. And we were we were there for pretty much everything.

SPEAKER_00: 12:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 12:16

Everything we could be, we were there.

SPEAKER_00: 12:18

So and that's one of those things that you'll look back, I mean, I'm sure you do now, and then you have grandkids, and you will never regret that time that you were able to spend. That's one of Brit and I's biggest conversations because when we started get to having the kids, she was working her career, I had my company, and I kept looking, I'm like, what are you doing? Like, this is your you all of your paycheck goes to daycare. Like, quit, come like stay home. And and I it was she was able to, and that was her like one of her biggest thank yous as far as like our us being together is the quality time she got to spend in those early days, not having to just drop your kid off. And and obviously not everybody has those means, but that's a huge thing.

SPEAKER_02: 12:56

Like for a mom to be able to have that quality time with your kids, and it's a big sacrifice, absolutely especially if you have a career or you have a goal or financially like huge financial. Like if you're making X amount of dollars and you choose or you can choose to stay home, then that's that balance, that's that sacrifice to make it work.

SPEAKER_04: 13:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 13:13

For me, I I I couldn't have seen doing it any other way. Like when I first got pregnant with our oldest Jonathan, I was still working and I was like, they're like, Are you gonna come back after you have the baby? And I'm thinking, I I I didn't know at that point, right? First time I'm like, Yeah, probably, but I'll let you know. And then after I got closer to having him, I was like, No, no, I can't. I had him and I was like, no, there's no, there's no way. So I had to call my old boss, and he's like, Oh, well, can you think about it in two months, four months? And I'm like, I'll let you know, but I never ever went back.

SPEAKER_00: 13:41

I don't blame you.

SPEAKER_02: 13:42

I I yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 13:43

There's such a different quality of kids, I believe, too, that that have that that core love and affection and nurturing from a mother in the early stages. I feel that that helps just I think so. Set a kid on track. I mean, obviously there's a lot of things that can happen, and there's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02: 13:58

If it's a healthy home, right?

SPEAKER_00: 14:00

Yes, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: 14:02

For me, it was like once that whole process, that part of the relationship started having kids, it was like I knew that's I wanted to be a mom.

SPEAKER_03: 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 14:10

Like I planned to be a mom. And I was like, at first, how many kids? You know, everybody asks, Oh, how many kids you're gonna have? And I'm like, I think I want four or six, and people are like, Are you crazy? And I'm like, Well, once I do one or you know, but that's kind of in my head, always what I kind of you know, as a kid you have different fantasies about, oh, this is you know, because it the old movies would be like the cute little house with a white picket fence, and you know, the kids all playing and on a tree swing, and I'm like, it was weird. So, anyways, like no. Yeah, we we had yeah, we have four kids.

SPEAKER_00: 14:39

What is your favorite part about being married? What's your favorite part about your husband?

SPEAKER_02: 14:46

Just that he's always there.

SPEAKER_00: 14:47

Yeah?

SPEAKER_02: 14:47

Yeah, he's always there. Yeah. No, through thicker, thinner, whatever. He's usually 99% of the time, he's always the positive guy trying to pull you up. He's always like and he's always got like a he's always got I'm gonna say scripture or something to just boost you. Because it is like reminding you who you are, who the Bible says you are, what you can accomplish, and don't settle for less. But he's always been in my corner. Like it's never been where he'll go, you know, bad talk me to when he's with guys, or I'll go, you know, talk him down to friends or whatever. Not that I have a lot of girlfriends, my daughters and a few others, because just where I live, it's just my life.

SPEAKER_00: 15:24

That's all you need.

SPEAKER_02: 15:25

Um, but always having each other's back. Like never that's huge. Yeah, like we we I'm not gonna say we fight because we don't fight. We'll have more heated discussions now over like, and usually it involves money or kids. Yeah. Still to this day, and all my kids are like 29 and up.

SPEAKER_00: 15:41

So you mean it never it never goes away?

SPEAKER_02: 15:43

It's always about something like that, or something that's happening with yeah, usually finances or something like that. But no, always having each other's back no matter what. And sometimes you don't want to have the other person's back because you really want to throat punch them. And he'll laugh because that's what I said. I said, I don't want to kill you, but every once in a while I just oh, I just wish I could just and people are like, Oh, I says, I'm you just speak the truth. I said, if people say they don't feel like that, I'm like, either, in my opinion, which is maybe incorrect, you're either out of it or drugged or something, because things arise every once in a while in a relationship. It's just like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:18

But I have this thing I tell Britt, and God, I'm probably getting clipped, and everyone's gonna think I'm some wife beater, but I always tell her, I'm like, I'll never put a hand on you, I'll never hit you. But there's sometimes I just want to shake the shit out of you, you know. It's just but that's marriage, you know, and it's just they they get I'm sure every day she gets to that point with me. Like just probably a couple hours ago, I was just pushing buttons, and both daughters were looking at me like, Dad, no, not the time. Not the so now I have two little little referees uh to help uh they're like a buffer for me for when I get in my mood and I just I want to bring the level up in the house and I just start picking on her.

SPEAKER_02: 16:54

I like I guess I like to push buttons sometimes not really, not really on purpose, but it's just like and there's we each have little things that we know if we say it, oh you're gonna light something up. So now we we made a deal. Okay, you don't call me my mom, and I won't call you your your you your dad.

SPEAKER_00: 17:10

That's a good one. Instant fight.

SPEAKER_02: 17:13

Because that's a way to go down a rabbit hole that's hell.

SPEAKER_00: 17:16

Instant fight. You're you know what? You're acting like your mom right now. Ugh, Medusa, head starts spinning.

SPEAKER_02: 17:21

I'm like, I am not, and I am, I'm like a lot in many, many ways. I'm nothing like my mom. Same, but it's just triggers. It's just the jab. Because it's a past, because my mom's totally changed person, I'm a totally changed person. But when we were young, that was the triggers, right? If I sounded like my mom or he sounded like his dad, that was an instant you could go from zero to a hundred like that, and we'd be on. So we just we try really hard not to go to that.

SPEAKER_00: 17:44

Well good. So let's uh let's talk bears and bear guiding and hunting because it's such a controversial topic, and anything that has ever been a Disney character on any movie that's fluffy and cute for some reason brings out all the anti-hunters, the crazies, like the the most insulted I have ever been, or my kids have ever been on the internet, and the most horrible things I've ever seen it come out of anybody is always around wolves, bears, mountain lions, anything along those lines. So I'm sure over the years you guys have seen it all. Let's start with how the hell did you guys even get into starting, running, operating a huge operation that you guys have where you have celebrities from all over the world coming to hunt with you guys. You guys run a hell of a system. So where did it start?

SPEAKER_02: 18:40

It's I guess it started well way, way back. He always hunted and fished with his dad, right? Raised in Ontario, did a lot of that, uh, a lot of prospecting, just outdoors all the time. And then he did uh helped his uh grandfather his prepared do a bait business like live worms and stuff like that. Um, everything hunting and fishing. Uh so he started that when he was 14 years old. His dad, I believe, got him a fly tying kit, so he started hunting flies because he was really into fishing, right? He wanted to do his own. Then his shop teacher started buying from I'm fast-forwarding it all. So always like that, always outdoors, always hunting. And then as soon as he turned 18, he was like, because you have to be 18 in Alberta to become a licensed guide. He wanted to become a guide and go hunting because you know you like to hunt. What's better than hunting with other people? Yeah, so 18. So this year will be can I do add? Is it 37 years?

unknown: 19:30

That'll be 56 next month.

SPEAKER_02: 19:33

So 37, 38 years of guiding. That's how long he's been doing it. Um always outdoors, always hunting, fishing. For me, I never had that as much. We did lots of fishing, lots of camping, all of that stuff. Um, hunting was a bit more my stepdad's thing. We could do a little bit, but it was more him and his buddies. So, what I did is I spent a lot of time at my grandparents' house. So he had a trick. My grandpa had Jersey cows, had a big farm, had uh trap line. So I was kind of the oldest grandson. So I could shoot guns, drive shit, drive stuff, um, do all the stuff that little girls weren't supposed to do because I was the oldest grandson. Yeah. So trapping, skinning, like all that, and I I loved it all, raising cattle, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 20:13

You didn't transition when that was happening. Right?

SPEAKER_02: 20:17

Yeah. He's chirping in the back that if transitioning was real back then, he's glad I didn't because I was a tomboy.

SPEAKER_00: 20:23

Yeah. Um just so cra isn't it crazy now. You look at these, like our youngest is the most perfect example. Both my daughters are perfect examples. Like, they're into hunting, fishing, digging dirt, messing with just dead shit. And like it does, it's just yeah, but then they have their little princess side to them. And and you look at it now, and now people are like, you almost have to like, oh my god, is she going a certain way? Because the agenda is so bad. Yeah, but when we were growing up, I was like, Oh, it's just a tomboy, she's wearing jeans and a t-shirt instead of a dress, and they there was no thought about it, but now it's you like have to like like for almost make sure you're overdoing on certain things because you're like they're the because the propaganda is so thick now, and you're you have to worry about everything, and it's so scary. Instead of just being like, Oh, it's a little tomboy. Now you're like, uh, you like look at these kids, you're like, Oh god, we have to question anything.

SPEAKER_02: 21:13

I know my granddaughter wants to be outside in the mud in the garden, playing with bugs, animals. We shoot, we shoot a bear, she's out there checking out the teeth, checking out the claws, she wants to help skin. She's six and a half now. Yep. But she loves it, but that's how all my kids were raised, too. Um, just I guess a way of life, yeah, right? Yeah. Because if it's not they're raised with it, it's not abnormal.

SPEAKER_04: 21:34

No.

SPEAKER_02: 21:35

And see, for people, when it comes to bear hunting, wolf hunting, I'll call it the predator hunting, if you will. Um, it's because it's a lack of knowledge. And they see it as a perception of this is an innocent animal, you're taking its life, and you're like, well, you have to do management because you you want to hunt the ungulates, right? The elk, the moose, the deer. That's what we live off of.

SPEAKER_04: 21:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 21:52

But we also eat a lot of bear meat. Yep. We haven't hunted mountain lion ourselves yet. We've eaten it and I've cooked it for other people. Um, and we predator hunt. I hunt wolves and I kill lots of coyotes every year because it's management for my does.

SPEAKER_03: 22:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 22:06

All over our farm, we have like hundreds of does that when they fawn in May, June. Um, if you don't take care of the coyotes, you're not gonna have any fawns. And people are like, well, you should let nature take its course. Uh nature can, but there's always issues that are gonna arise in that too, because uh, like a bear, they'll go kill, kill, kill, kill. Or a mountain lion is a better example. They'll go kill, eat a little bit, go kill again, go like same with wolves. They'll pack up and they just want to kill. It's not like they're always eating it. And people that see stuff on TV, they're like, oh, well, they're killing it to eat it. Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes they just like to kill it and keep on going because it's that thirst. That's what's their nature is, is to kill.

SPEAKER_00: 22:42

Well, and I think a lot of times, too, when people say, Oh, let nature take its course, they don't realize nature has cycles.

SPEAKER_02: 22:47

And we're part of that cycle.

SPEAKER_00: 22:48

Yeah, so as predator numbers are on the incline because they're letting nature take its course, then all your ingulets, I never even use that word ever, but your hoofed animals, they're gonna start declining. And that could be a seven, ten, fifteen year cycle where those numbers drop until the food source is low enough where the wolf and the predator numbers start to die off. Then your what we would hunt are the ingulets would now on the increase. So you could be a 15-20 year cycle before the numbers are up again, where then you have your states and your provinces are gonna be like, oh, well, the the deer numbers are down, we gotta cut numbers on them. So then you're not even able to hunt. So it's like the whole let nature take its course, those days. I mean, would that be the absolute ideal situation? Uh sure. If for who we are as outdoorsmen, I I feel cool. Yeah, everybody wants nature to take its course, but when it comes to predators, you they have to be managed. I there's no hands or buttons.

SPEAKER_02: 23:44

The cattle farmer, the people that have sheep, goats, whatever, horses. I mean, where I grew up, there was uh quite a few mountain lines, and our neighbor, people like, oh, there's none here. Well, then you have this horse that's in the barn, and you it looks like that scissor cloth ink all down its backside where a cougar went on the back of them. You're there. Oh, yeah. I remember that as a kid. I think I was like nine or ten years old, and I was freaked out because I didn't know we had some right there where we lived.

unknown: 24:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 24:06

And people would say it and they're like, Oh, there's none here. There's some there.

SPEAKER_03: 24:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 24:09

But if you don't manage predator, then you don't have the game you want to hunt as much. And see, the game that you're hunting, say deer moose can have usually one to two fawns or calves. Then you look at the predator, a wolf, eight, ten pups, yeah, a bear, and you were some two to five cubs, at least around ours when we are feeding them and taking care of them.

SPEAKER_00: 24:28

Especially those mature bears, it's just like a mature doe. I mean, the older they get. And I've seen, I mean, I've had bears on my bait that it came out with five cubs and every cub was like a different color.

SPEAKER_02: 24:37

Yeah. Yeah. You're like, so their multiplication compared to a moose. And like where we are, a moose will usually, a lot of times we'll have two calves. One will get taken by a bear. The bear will follow her as she's not even giving birth yet, but she'll start to get in the process and she'll walk.

SPEAKER_03: 24:50

Really?

SPEAKER_02: 24:50

She'll walk it up and down trails. Kind of like a, you know, a woman, they say, Oh, go walk in the halls, get labor going and stuff. Well, a moose will just walk. And eventually, uh, like her her scent and stuff, it'll start to drip.

SPEAKER_03: 25:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 25:01

And her water will start to drip, and the bear catches that scent and they'll follow it. And when she's given birth, or the bear will come and actually pull out the calf while she's giving birth to the first one, take it and go, and then usually she'll that's usually how you'll see a cow with one calf.

SPEAKER_00: 25:13

Really?

SPEAKER_02: 25:14

That happens a lot. Not all the time, of course, but we've seen it quite a few times.

SPEAKER_00: 25:18

I saw a study not too long ago. They went through and tracked a bunch of bears on how much they actually kill, and it is they're killing masters. Well, their nose. Nothing can hide from the nose of a bear. You know, it's it's incredible. And I s I I wish I had the numbers for the show, but it was insane the amount of fawns that and cat, you know, calves that these bears are just cleaning up the second they hit 30 to 40 per bear in a in a like a month and a half span of basically one a day, a calf or a fawn or a caribou.

SPEAKER_01: 25:49

It was Alaska, so it was caribou calves and moose calves.

SPEAKER_00: 25:52

One a day, a bear's killing. Yeah. So I mean, let's say a square mile or ten square miles, how many bears? I mean, they've done enough studies. Do you guys know how many roughly bears are in a region in your area?

SPEAKER_01: 26:02

Like I'm typically, yeah, except where we bake, there's way more because we draw them in.

SPEAKER_02: 26:07

Isn't it like one per five miles or one per no, it's like two to two to three per square mile. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 26:12

Two to three per square mile.

SPEAKER_02: 26:14

I mean, obviously there's gonna be denser spots, like where we're baiting, and when it's breeding season, for sure. When they're out traveling during the summer and stuff, yeah, it's gonna be spread out a little bit more because they're going after their food sources, whether it be berries, beaver, whatever.

SPEAKER_00: 26:26

But that's I mean, people, but people don't realize that. So they just see us hunting and they're like, oh, you guys are just killing these endangered animals. Illegal to kill. That's my favorite thing. How do you kill these? It's illegal.

SPEAKER_02: 26:37

It's like I wish they'd take that off because right now they still you need sighties permits and all these just permits to get them back into the states unless you're not taking them because it's supposed to be on the endangered, not endangered, but endangered to wildlife and for, anyways. And it's like they're not, like there's so many of them, and I don't know why it's such a polar bears now than they're everywhere. Yeah. And black bears.

SPEAKER_01: 26:58

The government lets you hunt them. The biologists study them, figure out the numbers, allow so many tags, and allow people to go hunt them.

SPEAKER_03: 27:05

And here we are.

SPEAKER_02: 27:06

And I mean it's scientifically, I mean, not all science is right, as we know. But this, they do studies, they know how many bears are in the area, they know how much food, they know how much they're gonna eat, and it's like, okay, so we're gonna allow every resident can have a tag. Like you go out and buy your tag, there's not a certain limit. And there's a certain amount if we don't, it's like with the wolves. Here's a good example with wolves. We're supposed to go out and hunt them, but if the wolf population gets too high in a certain area where they're trying to manage moose or bring back caribou is a big thing right now into areas that they really weren't before, but they're trying to grow them. So they're trying to manage wolves. So if we can't kill enough, they'll actually this is the difference. So us, we're ethical. We go out, we bait, we shoot one, like clean kill, everything, we use it. So if there's too many, the government will hire out contractors, flymen in helicopters, they'll go out and they'll just shoot everything. And they can this is the deal. We can't shoot at night, you can't use uh high power, like um uh what do you call it? Magazine, big magazine, oh, high high capacity, and all that stuff. You can't do any of that. But these guys coming in planes, they can do it, they can hunt at night, they shoot out of a helicopter, they're using suppressors, silencers, whatever. And I was like, okay, this is horse crap. Yeah, like let us shoot more. Well, the population is too too high. So if we don't manage it or we don't have the opportunity to manage it, so instead of us putting money into conservation and into it, the government takes and takes all of it out and they have to pay people to go do it. It's just it's an oxymoron because they're like, oh, we'll just same with um in Ontario, they had all these deer living in a smaller community, and they hired government trappers. We call them trappers, we call them and they went in and shot them all. But it was like it costs almost a million, was it a million bucks to kill like not that many deer, where it was like, give people an archery tag.

SPEAKER_00: 28:44

Shit, go to local high school and let some of these hillbilly ass kids they'll clean up a neighborhood and unlike.

SPEAKER_02: 28:48

Let them take them, let them send them to a butcher that'll do it, and put it to feed the hungry, put it to a food bank. That's it.

SPEAKER_00: 28:55

That is one of my biggest, like, what the fuck is going on in the outdoor world? Is because I I mean, there's I have I've I've talked about it before, but I have videos on my old phone of federal trappers coming in in helicopters. They, especially in Montana, Wyoming, where these grizzly numbers are getting high. The state is setting traps, snares, and they're catching grizzlies off these big these big kill piles. They'll just get roadkill and they dump it. Set snares all around it, they fly all their checkpoints, and when there's a grizzly in this snare, these guys come in, shoot it with a shotgun, they destroy the skull, they have to take the pads, the paws with them, they rip up the hide, they have like things they have, but they're just leaving these grizzlies. And I'm like, okay, so you're now you're taking taxpayer dollars to have these federal trappers come in there and shoot grizzlies that are snared in helicopters. If anybody wants to fucking deny this, it's happening. I've seen it with my own eyes, and they're shooting wolves out of helicopters at right outside of state parks. Ironic, right? But the state will never say anything about this. How much money could we raise to go back to Congress? Conservation if they just auctioned off a couple of grizzly hunts.

SPEAKER_02: 30:04

I've been talking about that for like seven years at with our organization. So things are starting to change a little bit in Alberta. Before, that's the thing. They they quit uh grizzly bear hunting in Alberta in 2005, right? 2005. So no grizzly bear hunting. And when they did, there'd be like maybe 20 killed in the province. Because that's all it's not like they're everywhere. Yeah, you have to they're not everywhere. So let's just put it that way. So then after years of not having a season, they're having to kill at least 25 to 30 bears a year that they say that we know of. We know there's more, because the town that we we um have our house in in Swan Hills, there used to be like 30, 40 grizzlies just around town because the old fish and wildlife guy that was there, he would count them at the local dump. Because before it was big cages and the big bins and stuff. So that was what, 15 years ago, 10 years ago. Um, so they're they have to go out and they have to kill these bears that are getting into people's cabin, killing livestock, being where they shouldn't be, because what people don't get with this whole conservation thing, and oh, you shouldn't kill the bears, just pertaining to the grizzlies, is okay, so these grizzlies are in an area, they mate, the sow gets pregnant, she has two to three cubs. So every two years she'll get pregnant, or she has the cubs for two years, then she'll get pregnant. Well, after a while that population grows, right? Yep. So if in the in the if they're in this little area, eventually if they have to expand because all those boars can't stay in the same area because they're gonna fight, they're gonna kill it, and the sows want to leave because those boars will kill her cubs. So they spread out, they spread out, they spread out. Well, it's only you only have to do simple math to figure out in 10, 15, 20 years, if there's, let's just say a dumb number, 250 female grizzlies, how much cubs are they gonna have over the next 10, 15 years? Yeah. How they're gonna multiply. And if nobody's hunting them, nobody's killing them, they're gonna cause trouble. They're gonna be where they shouldn't be. So now government has to come and take care of them.

SPEAKER_00: 31:48

It's just like you look at California, like obviously you got I'm I don't know how uh spun up you guys are being in California or being in Canada, but like they outlawed mountain lion hunting years ago. You know how much money the state of California right now pays for these federal trappers that come in and they're just they're murdering mountain lions by the truckloads, like truckloads of mountain lions, and now they're going to people's neighborhoods or eating all their dogs, they're snatching up cats. I mean, it's they're it's overrun with them because these states, instead of using common sense and logic and being like, okay, yeah, the anti-hunters don't like it. Oh well, here's our numbers, this is what we're spending, but instead they bend the knee to these these anti-groups and they're giving into it, which is ending up costing so much more money, it's unhealthier for the animals because then you have the disease that spreads, they're all fighting for food and territory, so then they're that's hat that's a whole other side of things. They're actually doing more harm for the animals, I feel like, in a lot of these scenarios, because now they're confined in little areas and these little patches of state forests or whatever. And it's just like there's so much worse, there's more harm protecting a lot of these predator animals by banning things than it is having a good conservation, a good system set up to actually control numbers. Like you look at Florida for they when they they outlawed bears there, and then they brought it back for a season and they they hit the quota in like the first like day, I think it was that it opened up and they closed it back out. That shows you the population of bears in Florida right now.

SPEAKER_02: 33:20

It has to be managed. And like when you get to wolves, bears, and grizzly bears, like the grizzly bears are pretty much top of the food chain. Yep. Unless it's a human, or if it's sick or old, then a wolf pack of wolves might take it down. A uh black bear, a big black bear, they're they're up there too. Not the top top of the food chain where we are, but they're up there. The they're pretty tough. Again, older with cubs or whatever, pack of wolves, whatever. Um, cubs for bears, their biggest nemesis or whatever you want to call it is uh a boar.

SPEAKER_03: 33:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 33:49

Because if he can kill those cubs, he'll get that sow to be ready to breed again, and then he can have his seed. It's just like lions.

SPEAKER_04: 33:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 33:56

So um, but I was gonna say some, oh, with mountain lions and coyots and stuff in our town in Swan Hills, people have little dogs and little cats go missing. They're like, Oh, can you find my cat? My cat's gone missing. And then you'll be talking to some guy, somebody at the store or whatever, and they'll be like, Oh, yeah, I seen a cougar leaving town with this little black fluffy dog in its mouth. And we're like, Oh, how do you tell that kid?

SPEAKER_00: 34:18

Like, I mean, they sorry, your dog is now cat shit.

SPEAKER_02: 34:22

Yeah, and there was days that when our kids were in school there, they couldn't get out of the school. There was a grizzly sow with two cubs in the schoolyard. Really? So it was like police were sitting and fishing wildlife at the front, and you were picking up your kids one at a time, coming out of the door, coming to your truck because they're yeah, so I mean, you lived right in them. Yeah, and I mean people have for forever. It's just like I don't know, the management thing gets dumb.

SPEAKER_00: 34:43

It is, it's a it's a real it's a fascinating thing to me. I've never understood the state's management programs when they start banning things. Like I now, if you're gonna come at me with science and proof that numbers are on a decline, we gotta take a pause. Yeah, I 100% as an outdoorsman, I support that because I don't want animals wiped off. Like I want my kids to be able to hunt the same animals. I want my I want to take my grandkids out one day. So I'm a hundred percent for managing any elk, deer, bear, what it doesn't matter what it is. Uh I I support it. But it's when they're like, nope, we're done. It's it's we're bit we're put we're putting a up, we're gonna protect grizzly bears here in the lower 48. It's like, what what good is that actually doing? Now, I mean it's every summer. You hear all these hikers that are getting snatched up and Wyoming months pulled out of their tents, guides are getting chewed on.

SPEAKER_02: 35:36

All the time.

SPEAKER_00: 35:37

And no, but nobody will say anything about it, and it just continues and they're like, oh no, the numbers are down. It's like, well, the attacks are on the incline.

SPEAKER_02: 35:43

Because they're a predator, that's what they do. Yes, you smell different, you smell good.

SPEAKER_00: 35:48

They're most likely there are these hippies walking around, they smell like hamster shit, and then the bears are probably like, what the hell is this?

SPEAKER_02: 35:56

Oh yeah, so they had uh tree they were tree planting, right? So they fly in people because they do big clear cuts in Alberta, and then in the summer they'll fly in tree planters. So the pilot was down eating blueberries, picking blueberries, waiting for everybody to be done tree planting. Uh black bear came in, knocked her out, and killed her. Like knocked her over, mauled her, and killed her.

SPEAKER_00: 36:13

A black bear?

SPEAKER_02: 36:14

Black bear. Oh yeah. Well, you're see you're down in and you're bending down low, right? So maybe it didn't know what it was, but it knew you were there. You're eating its food source. It's the fall. You shouldn't be here. So they get very possessive of their food source. Okay. And yeah, it it killed her.

SPEAKER_03: 36:30

Damn.

SPEAKER_02: 36:31

Yeah. And that happens. So there's um long time ago, how many years ago? Ten years ago more. So a kid that I grew up, our neighbor, his kid, a long story. We lived in the same area forever. One of my son's buddies, uh, they went out for a May Long weekend and they always go to a remote lake, quad in there, camp, fish, like all the families together, and they had a problem bear coming around, came around, came around, they shot at, like, shot at to scare it away, whatever. Uh ends up in the middle of the night, this bear came back, drugged this kid out of the tent, broke both of his arms, his shoulder, bit on his head, like everything. It was a black bear. This is black bear. And so the report that came out after, oh, this black bear was sick, oh, it was whatever, whatever, and we're like, no, it's a black bear doing what black bears do. There was food in that tent. They smell, I mean, you think these teenage boys in there fishing, cooking over the campfire. And I mean everyone's covered in snit. Everybody's covered in snit. I so yeah, pike and walleye and whatever else, whatever else they're fishing. So yeah, he got and he had to get flu, like they have we have uh stars ambulance. Okay. So so it does happen. Lots of stories. We know a guy that got mold by a grizzly, um, scalped him. He could feel it crushing on his head, put a big hole in his thigh. He almost bled out. Like that was in Swan Hills.

SPEAKER_00: 37:47

Like it happens, it's just it's like hush hush. Um why is it hush hush though? Like the state hush hushes it, or the province hush hushes it, or it comes out, but then it's kind of like, oh, well, it's very rare because they don't want to put fear in people.

SPEAKER_02: 38:02

It's rarer, but here's the deal the more population you get when it's not management, it's becoming more normal more heard of, more happenings, it just like anything else. Yep. So and this is a bad thing, but uh all his buddies in school, like my son and all of his buddies, called this kid bear bait. And he laughed at it because he they're bugging him about stuff, and you know they want answers, and I mean he had to grow a big bubble to do like skin grafting, and like it was bad, both of his wrists, like it was bad. Jeez, um, very lucky to be alive, and he's like, Hey, just call me bear bait. And it was a joke, and he's cool with it, and I think they still call him that to this day.

SPEAKER_00: 38:37

Oh god. But I mean, at least he earned that nickname. Yeah, I mean, he's still worse, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 38:41

But it could be worse.

SPEAKER_00: 38:42

I mean, so speaking of bear baiting, that's a controversial thing. And yeah, when I first got into bear hunting, I was anti-bear baiting. Yeah, I thought it was cheating, these lazy hillbillies are just dumping out a bucket of donuts, and you're just sitting there because I look at it compared to baiting deer. You see these guys in a tree stand, they got a pile of corn, they lace some 120-inch deer, and they're stoked over it. Like that's how what how I compared it to until I got in the bear baiting, and then it changed the I put in more work, yeah, bear baiting than I would just do hiking a mountain for a week straight. I mean, where I'm hiking thousand pumping thousands of pounds in the canyons, setting up the right look. I mean, it's it is work. I have buddies that are giant meatheads, and they literally will come on me one or two times and they're done because it is such work, it's a nightmare.

SPEAKER_02: 39:35

If you want to have success, it's work.

SPEAKER_00: 39:36

That's yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 39:38

We work our butts off.

SPEAKER_00: 39:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 39:40

And we've even the locals will run into them in a restaurant or something. This is years ago, and there's all these old farmers, and they're like, Oh, you're bear hunting. Are you one of those baiters? And I'm like, Yeah, I am. And they started to razz me, and they're like, Why would you say that? I says, Do you know why we bait? And they're like, Okay, like they're being kind of smarty pants to me, and I wasn't really backing off either. And I was like, Yeah, do you want to know why we bait? I says, Here's why we bait, personally, this is why we bait. Because we want, number one, we you need to feed the animals to get in, right? So you can see them, so you can hunt them. We're a pretty thick bush. It's not like you can't see no. There's spots like on the on gas lines or cut lines or something like that, you can see a bear, but why we bait, here's the next part of it, is how do you know what you're shooting? We only want to kill big, mature old boars that have passed on their seed because people want a big hide, they want lots of meat and a big skull.

SPEAKER_03: 40:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 40:26

So, how do you get that? You have to have a big old animal. That's what we're after. So by baiting, and we set it up so, and I teach everybody when they come in to all of our clients and everybody, I teach them how to judge sex, size, all that stuff. So you have a bait site so they can come in, you have your binoculars and you sit and watch them. And you will teach people how to just and a lot of them know now, but it's like, is it a male or female? Is what size is it? Like all these things. We don't want anybody to shoot a female. You can't shoot a female with cubs under a year old. And if that's what you want, lots of meat, big head, big trop, big trophy. I hate that word because it's not. It's like if you're killing something and you're using all of it, it's it's the whole thing's a trophy. The meat, the hide, everything. So when we're baiting, so anyways, with back to these old farmers, and I just I was really nice and I was talking to them and everything, and and they're like, Oh, we never thought of it that way. I says, We just don't want to kill Abear. We want to kill the big old boars that are taking out all the moose calves, killing all the deer farms, fawns, coming onto your farm and killing your calves in the spring and all this different stuff. Where they're like, Oh shit, we never thought of that. And I'm like, how many calves get killed by bears? And they're like, Wow, well, buddy over here has he was lambing and he lost ABCD and this and that. And I'm like, that's why we want to manage these big old boars out, is to get them out of the population. We're not killing the babies. They're like, oh, and I says, We bait our asses off because we want our clients to see bears and we want them to have success.

SPEAKER_03: 41:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 41:47

And there's, you know, you can go in with a five-gallon bucket and dump it. One bear. That's one bear's meal. I mean, there's bear baits that we have 25-30 bears on. You can sit one night and you can see up 20 plus bears.

SPEAKER_00: 41:58

Yeah, that's insane.

SPEAKER_02: 41:59

And that's work. Like hundreds of thousands of pounds of bait every year. That's night and day. That's all we do 24-7 while we're during baiting and buffing up bait sites and fixing up blinds and tree stands and making sure Bears are dicks.

SPEAKER_00: 42:14

They tear everything up.

SPEAKER_02: 42:17

They like to destroy shit. Everything.

SPEAKER_00: 42:19

It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02: 42:21

You put up a sign, because we put signs all around to warn everybody, because we have to. We'll put them up, come back the next day, they're on the ground.

SPEAKER_03: 42:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 42:28

The I s we think we sometimes do jokes, like we're talking like the bears, you know, you're walking in and it's like, hey, that doesn't belong there. Bite, rip it off, or they'll bite the shit out of a bucket, stomp on it, pee on it, like because they know it's not supposed to be there. You leave a chair there, they're like, hey, let's play with this. They know it doesn't belong. Like they they're smart.

SPEAKER_00: 42:48

I think the best picture I ever have of a bear is on a trail cam, and I hung a big bait ball between two trees, and this little son of a bitch scooted out. Like you could see his legs, his legs were hanging in the trail cam picture.

SPEAKER_02: 43:03

Maybe shimmy across with his.

SPEAKER_00: 43:05

I couldn't, I didn't I only had like like belly button down. Had to have, because it was just one rope, and he chewed, he had to have chewed the rope because he got it down. Oh, geez. He went all the way out into the middle, and you could see because I'm looking at the trail camp because I'm like, why is this going off? And then I see these little legs sticking, and then I could see the body because you could tell he had his, he was like pulling trying to pull himself up. Yeah, so yeah, I mean they're creative. I mean I remember the first year I went out, I would I'd switch gloves out and I wouldn't touch my trail cam and I didn't want scent on it. They just chew on it no matter what, they just chewed on everything.

SPEAKER_02: 43:37

And I know scent, I'm gonna bend some toes here, but like all the cover scents and all that stuff, it's good for some stuff. All I'm gonna say with bears, they smell way better than a bloodhound. And it's like, so you have silver in there, baking soda, they smell that.

SPEAKER_03: 43:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 43:50

They smell, they don't smell you ate spaghetti last night, they smell everything, even maybe they don't know that they won't know what it is, but they smell every individual thing that's in that because their noses are so uh so sensitive. Yep. So I'm like, you can spray it, you can coat it, whatever. The best way to have good success, it's like get covered in bait, come work with us while we're baiting and stuff and help hand bomb stuff, and then you smell like it, and then the bear's like, oh, this is more normal. But there is some people that'll sit on a bait for the first night or two, and it's pretty quiet because either they're fidgety, brand new smells. There is people that just have different smells. I mean, I can smell different smells on people, and the bears you'll see laundry detergent. Yeah, you'll set you'll see average bears, but the bigger ones, they're like, No, not today. We know something's up. And then if you sit there long enough, usually they'll start scooting around the edge and they'll come in later, like in a couple days. But they're smart. They're smart. Oh, very and I call like what you're saying with it because we've seen them where they go hand over hand or we put up beaver poles and hand up uh hang up beavers.

SPEAKER_03: 44:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 44:47

They love beavers. I mean, they're in every pond around where we live, and it's one of their natural food sources. We get them from trappers, and um we hang them up. Number one, so there's uh I'll do the hand over hand, but we've seen them like hand over hand, like we're the shimmy across, and they'll grab it, or they'll lean way out from a tree and grab it and pull it in. Like they're yeah, I tell the hunters I'm like, they're kind of like monkeys with teeth. Like they're really agile, like they can walk the pool, they can it's crazy. Why do you think they got used in circuses?

SPEAKER_00: 45:14

Big hairy pigs.

SPEAKER_02: 45:16

Yeah, they're just they're and they're so smart.

SPEAKER_00: 45:18

Very intelligent. Very smart. That's one of my favorite parts about hunting bears is just watching them and watching them figure things out, you know, just just how they they think and they are able to. I mean, I watched one one time, I was sitting above one in I don't remember what province we were in. It might have been after we left you guys.

SPEAKER_02: 45:38

I went to East to Saskatchewan.

SPEAKER_00: 45:41

Saskatchewan. Yeah, and uh yeah, that's exactly where I was. And so um they had these little like white yogurt chips in the in their in their mix, yeah, and this bear would just pull out a couple of big handfuls and he would lay and he would flick. Yeah, he would and then he would get one of those little yogurt chips and he'd and then he'd flick through it, and he'd pick, and he would just one at a time, and he would sift, and then he would shake this barrel, bunch of bait would come out, and he would just lay there and paw through it, and he just sat and picked what he wanted out, and then he just walked off.

SPEAKER_02: 46:12

And I was like, he knew what he liked.

SPEAKER_00: 46:13

It was like a little bit of a little bit of a little bit.

SPEAKER_02: 46:15

We'll feed ours uh oats mixed with stuff, and it some of them will take some up and they'll drop it on their paw, and they'll just pick up each like one kernel at a time, and they'll go like this, and it's like it's all the same, the whole pile's the same, or everything that's in the barrel, they get in the pile and they'll go like this, dig, and they'll lick a couple, dig this way and lick a couple, like it doesn't make sense, but they're very I don't know, just very entertaining to watch.

SPEAKER_00: 46:37

They are they are. Have you guys had any close calls with bears? I mean, all these years, have any of you ever been bit or attacked?

SPEAKER_02: 46:43

No, nobody really nobody bit well, we've been around them, not like we know everything about them, but when we sit, we sit every day all season. So you sit hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours over like he's what, 37 years? I've been guiding for about 25 plus now. So you sit, and even with clients, I'll just sit and I watch with my binos. So you learn there's little movements, little eye movements, their ear movements, their posturing. You just learn a lot. Um, last year he had uh uh he put it on Instagram last year, and this big sow, what I didn't know because I didn't know this part of it, because I was guiding somebody else. He comes back and he shows me this video. This sow comes around the tree and just swipes at him, hits his backpack like from me to my container away. And I'm like, what the heck are you? Like I was I cussed at him. This is one of these moments. Can I just throat punch you? Because you're you got a grandbaby. Like I was just, he says, Well, Jen, she was doing that because her cub was sitting in the tree stand above us. And I was like, You could have gave me that information. I had my doctor with me on fine, you could have stitched me up.

SPEAKER_00: 47:42

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_02: 47:42

But that thing went viral, got millions and millions of you, and I mean, you can still find it on Instagram, and I mean the bear is right there. That was a close call, but she was doing what a mom would do, her babies on the tree. Um, this year, I haven't had not you could here's the difference. Close call to me and a close call to him is different.

SPEAKER_03: 48:01

For sure.

SPEAKER_02: 48:02

I have my buffer zone, it's like you cross that line, and I I've never had to shoot one. I've shot over one or at its feet to blow stuff, like blow up pine cones and stuff on it just to scare it off so I can get out of the stand. It's also safety for me and my client. Like for me, there's I would do less stuff if it was just me or just him hunting together. But when you have a client, it's like there has to be a bigger buffer zone because you're responsible for their safety, their security. So it's like I anyways, personally, for us when we're hunting, it's a bit different. He'll let them come up and sniff the boots and stuff. I'm like, nah, I'm a nano. I have three granddaughters. That shit ain't happening. But I'll let them get close to me to you, they'll walk by. And I'm watching like I have my my shotgun. Yeah. Mine's usually like if they get closer than 10 feet, I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 48:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But here again, cover some distance.

SPEAKER_02: 48:50

Oh my gosh. But here's the difference too is it's like when you're sitting at that bait, you're watching that bear. If it's a bear I'm not familiar with, or just the posturing the ear or the noises that they're making and stuff, then you judge. And it's like they all have different characters.

SPEAKER_03: 49:03

It's oh absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: 49:04

Like some are just like, hey, whatever, they'll come lay by you like underneath your stand when you're sitting in a stand, they don't care. Then you'll have another one, which I'll call the younger bears, the teenage bears, like that two and a half, three and a half, four and a half year old bear. They're shit disturbers. In my opinion, unless you get in between a sow and their cubs, which I'll tell you that story, because that was my closest encounter this year. Not nice. Um between sow and cubs, or uh those bears. I think those teenage bears, those are the troublemakers. A big old boar we've never had it.

unknown: 49:39

It's like a two and a half-year-old bear.

SPEAKER_02: 49:40

Yeah, two and a half-year-old bear, yeah. Really? Yeah, rarely, but rarely. Very rarely.

SPEAKER_00: 49:44

Unless it's never would have guessed that. I feel like the big old ones would be cut yeah, they have the size to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02: 49:51

They could, but they don't need to. Yeah. It's that kind of that I call it that little boy syndrome.

SPEAKER_00: 49:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 49:55

Maybe females. I think it's more the boars. Um, now like with the sows and cubs, that's different. She's you're in the middle, but there's also ways to get out of it. It's how you talk, how you act, like not aggressive. Like there's a lot of ways to get out of it. This spring we had one, she was not having it.

SPEAKER_00: 50:12

She was How did you find yourself between a sow, a bear, and a mama bear and her cubs?

SPEAKER_02: 50:19

It happens all the time. Almost like every season we have a couple encounters. Usually they're pretty good. This one was intense. So we had I had my friends up from the Bo Rack, and uh, we were parked at the corner, and he's like, Oh, I'll bring in the bait for you, because I had a whole bunch of shit and chairs and all the stuff we're bringing in. I'm like, Okay, cool, bring it in for us. So he walks in, like down the road, uh down the trail and into the bait, and I'm still loading up, like putting on my backpack, grabbing the other back, uh, butt pads and chairs and all that crap. And I hear him yelling, I'm like, what the hell is he yelling for?

SPEAKER_01: 50:50

And in communist Canada, we can't carry pistols.

SPEAKER_02: 50:53

So he's walking into the bait. We're just getting ready to walk down the trail towards where he cut into the bait, and he's like, Somebody bring me an effing gun, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, what? But I didn't hear that at first. I just heard him screaming. Like he was, I thought he was just telling me to hurry up and get in there because he he was going on past us with some other clients, some other friends. And I'm like, okay, whatever. So I'm like, okay, put and then he comes running out of the bait, and I have my shotgun on, and we're walking toward, and here comes the Sal bolt bolting out of the bait. And I'm like, Where is your gun? He said, In the Argo, and I'm like, What are you thinking? Because normally this doesn't happen. Well, what ended up happening, he went both pales, just walking and didn't pay attention too much. He was going in fast. Cubs went up the tree, mom was on this side, he was in the middle. She was pissed.

SPEAKER_03: 51:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 51:34

And they went up the stand up where the tree stand was in, and then have a ground blind that we sit on right underneath. So she was not having it. So he came out and we were trying to let her get out. And every time we'd go to go in, she would charge us, huff and puff and froth and like snapping. Oh, yeah, just and ears pinned, and she was coming, and we're like, oh, yelling at her, try throwing some rocks at her to get off. And he's like, Okay, we've got to figure this out because this has been like 15 minutes of this crap. And I mean, she was like from here to the wall, coming out at us.

SPEAKER_03: 52:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 52:01

Closer than that to him. So finally he's like, he went in, he had the buckets and a shotgun now. Well, we would have left when I'm out of here. But we had a target bore in there that we wanted to go sit for. That's why we were there. Um, so he finally went in. I stood back with the gals. He's like, you walk in behind. So he went and he treed her, this big sow, like on the trail. Well, he yeah, he says there's no way she's gonna leave because you have to go in between her to get to the bait. So he charged in with a gun. You gotta yell at him, get him up the tree, like scare him to get him up the tree. So this big seven-foot sow went up the tree, and she's up there, and she's huffing and puffing. So I walk in right behind, and I have my shotgun, safety off, because she's like from here to your roof away in a tree about six feet away from us. Yeah, right there. She's right there, bait the bait. And he's baiting the the cubs are in the tree above where we're gonna sit, so she's freaking out because he is way too close to the babies, and there's three in there. She was not having it, and I mean she's huffing and puffing and spitting and clacking her jaws. She's pissing, trying to piss on us, like I mean, all her defense mechanism. And then she starts coming down, pooping on us, like it's just all of that adrenaline.

SPEAKER_03: 53:10

Really?

SPEAKER_02: 53:10

So I have safety off, and I am like at first was trying to talk to her calm. Most of the time, calm works. In this situation, it was um when I guide, I swear a little more. And when I'm in a situation like that, I swear a lot. My kids joke, they're gonna get me a t-shirt. It says there's one that says, I love Jesus, but I cuss a little. They have to give me one that I love Jesus and I cuss a lot, especially when guiding. So, anyways, I have my shotgun. The girls are standing. We should have filmed it. It was just so much in the moment we didn't because it would have gone insane. But you're trying to keep everybody safe. So he's baiting, we're holding her at bay. She slides down the tree, gets to about eight feet above us, and then she's like doing the clack and all that stuff, and there's a little knot on the tree, and then she's she keeps on huffing and puffing and clacking and like kind of like false, like she's gonna jump at us or whatever. So we try to keep her in the tree, and I'm yelling at him, can you hurry? Because usually he's fast and like, hurry up. And the babies are making noises and whining in the tree, and she's so she's freaked out. She's a mom. Her job, protect her babies. Totally understandable. So I don't want to shoot her. So we told I told the story to a couple other people, and they're like, Why didn't you just shoot her? I'm like, She has cubs, I'm not shooting her, she's not my target bear. She's doing what she's naturally supposed to do. Absolutely, protect her babies. You get in between my babies, you're gonna have some hell to pay.

SPEAKER_00: 54:23

Same shit.

SPEAKER_02: 54:24

So, long story short, he finally gets done, and I mean I'm yelling at her, safety's off, and then she's like coming down, she kind of like that fireman slide, comes down a little bit more, and I'm like, Can you hurry up? Because I know when she comes down, like she's coming, she's hot. So he finally gets back. We just walk out a little bit, she jumps down, she looks at us, charges a little bit, then runs towards the bait. And this is how how long do we were there? 10-15 minutes dealing with this bear in the transit. So it was like she goes, runs in, goes to the bait, starts eating. We backed out back out to the trail, just so we weren't there. No, kind of out of sight. Yeah, cubs slowly came down. We're waiting. There was one way up high that wouldn't come down, little brown one. Finally came down, they went and ate, and we're like, okay, he's like, You get? I'm like, I'm freaking good. We sneak in, we put down our chairs, we sit and we sit the whole night, and she doesn't bug us once. But from me to you, a bear up on the tree, trying to pee and snarking and snapping, and I was like, that was a lot of adrenaline. She got her cubs with her, and she's happy.

SPEAKER_00: 55:20

That's all she wanted.

SPEAKER_02: 55:21

She just don't touch my babies, and then we put out all the bait, he put a nice spread out, and she just like went there and ate. So that was my most hype one for me.

SPEAKER_00: 55:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 55:31

Probably in a while. In a while. That was a pretty intense one.

SPEAKER_00: 55:36

So you um you guys had an incident. We don't need to name drop anything, you know, because I know it's shit show. But um, I when I was in camp with you, there was a gentleman that his goal was to spear a bear.

SPEAKER_02: 55:49

Yeah. Which at the time, perfectly legal, perfectly ethical, was definitely qualified physically and acad uh, what do you call what's the word for I'll be honest?

SPEAKER_00: 56:00

I'm the first that'll talk shit on anybody. We all know this in this room, and anybody watching. Watching him throw that spear all week, he was dead nuts with it.

SPEAKER_02: 56:08

He was definitely qualified.

SPEAKER_00: 56:10

If and I if you're gonna give me the slightest bit of fuel, I'm I'm gonna run with it. Very impressed.

SPEAKER_02: 56:17

Very impressed, very qualified, very experienced, and he had the ability to do everything.

SPEAKER_00: 56:20

He was a collegiate javelin thrower, so that was not the issue.

SPEAKER_02: 56:24

He was he was that was all cool, it was totally legal. You could like everything was legal, everything was great.

SPEAKER_01: 56:33

Yeah, we called the government game to make sure that they were okay with it. Like it's legal, I know it's in the regulations, but we have a guy coming, he's gonna spear a bear.

SPEAKER_00: 56:41

And we just wanted to confirm because you guys got the the sign-off on the Canadian cards.

SPEAKER_02: 56:49

Like he was saying, it was legal, but not ethical, like if ever everything was in play that it was good. There was no controversy, there was no anything, and everything was good, and they're like, Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 56:58

So this whole scenario was legal, just maybe not the most ethical.

SPEAKER_02: 57:03

Well, it was ethical in the sense of the person was equipped, they were able, they were good at it, and they did ethical. Like everything was like the the shot.

SPEAKER_00: 57:13

If I remember correctly, the bear died within 30, 40 yards, 50 yards?

SPEAKER_02: 57:18

Yeah, it was it was dead. All that was there, the issue came with how it was dealt with. Yeah, and how it was um put out and not edited. It how it was um portrayed portrayed.

SPEAKER_00: 57:33

Yeah, yeah. So it it So the scenario let me just everybody watching or listening. So what year was this? 16? 2016. So 2016, I'm in bear camp with you guys. Bo Raks in camp too. Bo Racks at camp's first time I met Lisa and her crew. Great people. And this gentleman and his wife are in camp as well. More on the influencer side, he's gonna spear this bear, and I'm all for it. Um, this is wild chaos.

SPEAKER_02: 57:58

See me at first, to be honest, I was like, uh, just because me. I'm the one that's like I I'm he I'm the realist, he's the optimist. Yeah, so I'm like, hey, let's really look at like is this good and stuff? And I didn't I didn't know these people from anybody. I knew I saw a little bit on social, and I was like, that means to me, social meant nothing. I didn't know hunting skills, all that other stuff. And then we seen him throwing the spear and stuff, and I was like, okay, definitely qualified. And then I was like, okay, let's keep this going and see how this is gonna pan out. Yeah, and then stuff happened.

SPEAKER_00: 58:28

So he uh so my point of view on this was he sends me the video afterward, he's like, hey bro, out of anybody that posts anything, and back then I was way more controversial, and I I would just post anything back in those days. I'd there's some shit. He sends me the videos like give me your honest opinion if you know, if out of anybody that I'm gonna ask, I want to know what you think. And I watched a video and I was like, Don't post it. Yeah, he and he and he calls me and he's like, What do you mean don't post it? I'm like, dude, I went and post that video. He goes, You mean to tell me out of all people, you're telling me not to post post this this video? And I go, Yes, this is gonna be like a turd in a punch bullet prom. No one's gonna like this, bro. No, like I'm like, it's badass. We were all there. It it but I go, do we need to have the GoPro and the this bear running with it?

SPEAKER_02: 59:29

But he wanted it to be the hype of the career. And I'm like, I'll it was uh well, and it shouldn't even win out. The contracts that they signed, they weren't supposed to put anything out unless it ran by us. Okay, because it's it's our ass on the line. It's we had death threats. But I already asked the famous spear hunter if it was cool or not.

SPEAKER_00: 59:45

Yeah, yeah, but the wrong person to ask because that dude's the most hated hunter in the world.

SPEAKER_02: 59:49

Love him, not very liked, and it was just you know, there's a way to portray things that is more maybe not appealing to people, but more understanding that people can. See it and see, okay, I understand this concept. People did this for thousands of years. Like it's it's you know, you could have edited that video. You could have edited to make it so it was so educ. I'm not gonna say educational, that's a little cliche, but so it was so educational, so so interesting and so dynamic because people don't haven't done that in a while, not on TV, anyways. Where you could have gone instead of all of the negative hype and the craziness and the death threats and all of the crap that spilled out of it to making this video of just like wow, this is just like old school, the way the Native Americans used to do it, like just totally honor to the animal and everything. But it kind of dipped the other way. It was all about me, I'm the hero, and oh well, you know, and it just it really gave me a bad taste.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:42

It could have been banned spear hunting in Alberta, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:46

But and we almost lost bear hunting as a whole. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:49

There was so when all this was happening, we were in the States. So the video got leaked, or no, got put out on purpose. We had no idea because we didn't we didn't see it, we didn't get questioned about it, we didn't get asked about it. And uh we're actually coming home from Oregon. We were down seeing Lee Lisa down with Bull Rack and Cam and stuff. We're driving home and our phone are blowing up, and I'm like, what the heck can I answer? It looks like a government number, and I I'm not picking up so it was a government number, and finally we pick it up, and it was the government of Alberta, the Solicitor General's office, which is the highest, okay, saying that video needs to come down. And we're like, sorry, excuse me, what video? We had we had no idea. Because we you're not supposed to release stuff like that. Like, we really need to see it. It's in the contract, like you need to talk to us. We know what should be portrayed and shouldn't, yeah, because this is our livelihood.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:34

It wasn't for the solicitor. The solicitor general told everybody what to do, and it trickled from that office, the Alberta license us to be out of the case.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:43

So like that video needs to come down now. We're gonna lose bear hunting, like this is horrible. Like, what are you guys thinking? Then we started getting like, and we're like, okay, what video? And then we figured out we talked, and then a phone rang again. Then it was folks from Under Armour, folks from Hoyt, and it was just like, well, it was added that name out of there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:00

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:01

Whatever. It was mutual companies that we worked with. Can I say it like that? Is that better? Okay. Anyways, and we're like, okay, what, what, what? And then we found out who and what was happening and stuff. And we're like, oh, okay. So John calls and, like, hey, dude, you got to take this video down.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:14

He's like, no way, man, I'm not taking it down. I worked my whole life for this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:17

And we're like, okay, what are we supposed to do? Because we're in a crunch. Like, they're threatening and they're talking if we don't get this under control. We so fast forward this a little bit. So it went out on the UK mirror and all these different places.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:29

Now the media has it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:30

The media has it, it's gone nuts. And all the lawyers everything, even on Canada.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:38

What are you doing? Yeah. And your name and your guys' name is blasted all over. Everywhere over this.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:45

Yeah. And so our organization kind of hit us on the website because once this started going and everybody started grabbing it, we had death threats. I'm not even kidding you. Some of the most horrific, horrible you see what's happening. This was local.

unknown: 1:03:00

There was vehicles driving in.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:02

We had people driving by our house with tinted out windows. We had death threats on because we had our you know our business number. So our website was just sloshed on our email with just the most horrible, horrific things. The voicemails. It was freaking unbelievable. And I'd never experienced that before. Like I wish this blah blah blah to your kids and the most vile, disgusting, horrible, evil messages ever.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:26

Come out of the people that want to protect the world and the in nature the most. Explain to me how the people that are trying to protect nature and we're all peace and love are the most vile, disgusting, demonic human beings in the the It's demonic. I wish one day that I can say what people have said that they hope happens in my like I've never I've never seen somebody do anything. I've never seen somebody on the internet and been like and found them like I hope your children die of cancer.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:04

Yes, I hope they get raped and all of this stuff. Raped. So we then I listened to a couple of the messages in my bag. I can't, I just shut it off, I deleted it all because I was like, not just you get pissed, you're angry, but then to the point where it's like I'm almost you're crying, you're almost vomiting, and I'm like, What are we doing? Like, this is not this is not what I signed up for.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:22

So you guys aren't even home.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:24

We're not home, we're still driving home. We have kids at home.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:26

The kids are seeing strange vehicles going by, and we had the our police officer Veran park his vehicle in our bay and sit there with his AR on the seat.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:34

And people think that's not real. I'm like, oh hell yeah, that was real. It's not that bad. Local, so local hunters, local, like fellow outfitters that we knew for like 20, 30 years, like they're like, what the F are you guys doing? I'm like, we're gonna, yeah, you're gonna make us lose bear hunting, bear baiting, all this stuff. And we're like with the ants coming after us, but when it was the locals and it was our own, and I'm like, because they saw on TV that, and we're like, and we got told by the lawyers, don't make any statements, don't do any interviews, keep it quiet. And they're just the other people are just going, going, going, going, and it's like putting gas on flames.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:03

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:04

And we're just trying to be like, okay, and we're trying to talk to them saying, This is our livelihood. I get what you're doing, but you have a business, another thing. This is our livelihood. This is how we pay our bills, this is how we feed our family. Like, it's not a joke to us. Like, this is serious, and we respect the animals. The way you portrayed it is to me distasteful and disrespectful. I would never you never show an animal with the tongue off me personally, 100% all blood out and guts and worry, big guts hanging out, making it look like it suffered and didn't have a peaceful, quick death. Like, yes, it sometimes it happens, but it doesn't mean you have to show it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:36

So that's why my that's one of my biggest gripes with the the the houndsman. It's like, dude, do we have to show the fucking bear hitting every branch on the way out of the tree? That's how Oregon lost theirs. Yeah, it's video and it's just because people with the loudest voice. I like this needs to be a statement.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:51

Just because we film it, doesn't mean the antees are a little minority. All the people in between that don't really care or may not, we want them on our side. Yeah, yes, yeah, you're doing it well, doing it good, presenting it well, most people will vote on our in our favorite every time.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:06

Yeah, but it's just because you put it on the internet, or just because you film it, we don't have to put it on the internet. Like I I did a hunt with her where we did her um her black tail, and it was incredible. And I got super it was when I was with Sig, and like we did this badass film. We had so many people, I had so many people reach out, like, dude, I've I don't even hunt, and I want I want to experience this with my kids. And I'm like, Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:25

You want to portray this as like not that this is I'm this big hero. Well, you can do whatever you want, in my opinion. What I want to portray when I hunt is like I put a lot of effort into it. Yep, I really value it. I very much respect it, I honor it because it's traditions in our family. And people before would say, Well, how did you get into this industry? Like, there's some that are up and coming now, and some from years ago. What's the trick of the trade? And I'm like, I was like, I don't at Chacho, I'm like, I don't understand what you're asking me. Well, what was the trick for you to get into the industry? And I was just like, somebody slapped me in the face. I was like, it's in your DNA, it's who you are. This is your tradition, not anymore. Now it's about like people are famous before they shoot their first year. Um, but I'm like, it has to be for me for for me, it was respect. Yeah, I mean, that's how you grew up, right? That's how I grew up. You honor it, and if you're I'm gonna kill it, if I can eat it, I'm gonna eat it. If I can't eat it all, I'm gonna share it. Like it's just this whole thing, and that's why I say, well, it's in my DNA. Yeah, like it's how I grew up, that's how I was raised. Like, you don't do dumb shit.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:26

Yep. And if you do, you don't have to post it. No, because it we're we're in the game of killing, right? Yeah, I I don't use the word harvest. We're in the business of killing animals. Your potato I harvest my garden, I'm out hunting them too. Yeah, it's so it's not always pretty. There's things that happen, there's bad shots, whatever, there's a million scenarios, right? But that's why if you're a true outdoorsman, you care and you're practicing and you make sure your equipment and you have everything dialed. It happens with the girls, and and when it does happen, it's you take that opportunity to turn it into a lesson. Like, hey, like this is why we we don't rush a shot, or if you're not a hundred percent comfortable, because it sucks, because you are taking life, and unless you're sadistic, I feel like every anti thinks we're out there just bloodthirsty, yeah, and we're cheering and yeah, we do cheer and we are happy when it happens because I mean it might be an incredible tag, it might be an incredible old mature animal.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:20

Yeah, exactly. We cheer and we're happy, and you see us smiling because okay, so you see us with a dead animal, but in my head, I'm thinking I just spent 32 days hunting this deer or whatever. Um, and now I've harvested this deer, which for me I'm a woman, number one, by myself. Yep. I'm gonna gut it by myself, I'm gonna take it home and skin it by myself. Then I'm gonna take and let it I let it hang because we have a cool, like a cool garage when we're hunting, let it hang for a couple weeks or whatever. Then I'm gonna butcher it down myself, or Julia, my daughter, helps me lots or does a lot of it. We're gonna butcher it ourselves, we're gonna put it in our freezer, and then we're gonna have it to sustain us for the rest of the year. But here's the kicker. We take it and we feed clients and friends. We give it to uh this gets me going, my mom, my dad's not around anymore. So we'll bring her some meat because she likes wild game. Neighbors that's a single mom doesn't have enough money. We bring them meat, we bring them food. Um, we donate to food banks. And they're like, Oh, you're a bloodthirsty killer. I'm like, if somebody doesn't do this, these people need food. Of course, we're killing it for us, but we always have lots to share. Yeah, years ago, I think it was like 2012 or 2013, that year, the fall before, we got really blessed, and we end up getting like th two or three moose and a ton of deer. Like, we got a lot, we go through a lot. We eat a lot personally, like meat eaters, whatever, carnivore, not quite, but we hope so. Anyways, we were going down to Shot Show and we had seen because we like to go if we go somewhere else, I like to go surf. I I just I want to feeding people. I mean, that's one of my big things, right? Yep, and um, so he was looking online and it said uh um Salvation Army, they had no meat, they were low on meat, they needed meat, and we're like, well, shit, we've got like X amount of uh moose, right? In the freezer, all ground. We did grind it all up because we don't buy ground beef. Yeah, we had a lot. We had a lot, we were guiding a lot of moose clients then, so we had a lot, too much. Um, because they'll take what they can home, but you can't take 500 pounds of meat on a plane home. So they'll take like a cooler or two full, and so we're like, okay, well, let's see how much we can fly with. So we went and got coolers, loaded coolers, and flew to Vegas with these coolers full of moose, took it to the Salvation Army, and we called them before, and they're like, Oh, yeah, please, this would be great. We got a permit. I mean, we did everything legit, and we went down there and we made 60 gallons of chili, which was freaking epic, um, with these people from Salvation Army. And then we served what 480 some people the first day, and this is what was the heart tugger and the shocker for us. We thought these are all gonna be mostly dudes, it was families, it was single moms with kids on the street coming in, and I was like, it we live in the bush. You see a little bit when you go to the city, but this was this was a lot to see, and I think it's good, especially if you're a believer, to go out and do those things because you really have to when you do that, you really appreciate what you got and you really have more grace for people. Yeah, so these chefs, they were they were homeless people, yeah. They're doing it's like a culinary program that they'll do at this location. So these guys were working in the culinary program. Long story short, the one guy that worked with us there, um, once they're qualified, they get all their tickets and they're good. What's the guy's name for before they're even done, the Wynn Hotel? Wynn Hotel.

unknown: 1:11:31

Really?

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:31

They'll hire him. So he works at the Wynn Hotel now as one of the head chefs. Fantastic people. Good for him. And so we fed that many people that day, and then the next day they did chili cheese fries with the leftovers.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:41

And we went and it was just it was you want to talk uh talk a life-changing event, even though it was just serving chili to people. Just the whole process was just like, wow, god. Sure. It just it kind of for me, it just sets me back a little bit and says, Let's focus on what's really important. Yeah, yeah. We used to do a program.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:00

Yeah, it feels incredible. We we did it for years in Texas where I had a buddy that has a giant ranch, but he'd get all these extra, he'd have to kill like a hundred deer, yeah, or does, and he would call us up, we'd bring all these vets down. We would have this giant deerpalooza where we'd fill 50 to 100 tags in a couple of days, and they'd bring in a tractor trailer, literally an 18-wheeler fridge, yeah, and it sucks skinning them all, but we'd sit there and they'd bring in people from all in town and they'd just sit and skin 24-7 as we're just bringing in deer, and all of that went to feeding families in need, and then we'd get hate like look at these pieces of shit, just killing the kill. And it's like, what have you done to help anything that you're bitching about, right? How much have you donated to these animal rights activist groups? Nothing except what you're so you're some internet soldier, you're doing your part by bitching. Like, well, here we are, these deer are gonna get killed regardless, but instead, we're teaching people, we're educating them, and then these guys are learning all these skills, and now this these these wounded veterans are giving back. Yeah, and it was it's it was an incredible thing, and it felt so and all these guys, every one of these vets came because they needed that experience to like to learn, or you know, they're suffering PTSD, or do you need to get away from home? So these guys are healing at the same time they're providing, and it was such an incredible program, but then these people would attack us for it, and it just it was so funny to me because of the mindset of these anti-hunters that I I always be like, dude, come on out, come out and see what we're doing and see where this food is going that we're gonna go and give this family that doesn't have I think a problem with the internet is they don't people don't truly see how poor people live. Like in true poverty. If you see true poverty, it's heartbreaking. Yeah, it it cr it you like I get goose, it it crushes you, you know. And then they have kids and they're dirty and their hair, and you just you want to like bring them home, you know, you want to help. But it's like we're showing up to these houses that are b poverty, and we're being able to give them all of this meat protein, which is when you're poor, I mean we weren't that poor.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:14

We were pretty poor. I mean, for a while it was like our big expense for meat seriously, was baloney and hot dogs we and ground ground beef. We couldn't afford we never had steak unless we were hunting. When we started hunting more and stuff, like when he would go hunting and started guiding, then we'd have more meat because the clients wouldn't take it all, and then we could bring bum he'd bring home whatever they didn't take, whatever he could bring home, and we'd eat it, we'd give it to our family. So it was like you people don't understand how and uh this whole movement of oh don't eat red meat, that's horse shit.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:43

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:44

As my grandpa would say, that's horse shit. You need red meat, and what's better and cleaner, go harvest it yourself. And then if you can harvest for yourself and share it, like I said, with mom, neighbors, single moms, food banks. I mean, you go home humbled, you feel like a million bucks, but yet you're just so like how I don't know how to describe it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:02

Yeah, if there wasn't hunting, we wouldn't be here, none of us would be here.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:06

Yeah. It cracks me up the the the how far we've gotten disconnected from where our food comes. Not even the hunting side of things.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:13

Well they would tell me, go to the store. Like when I'd post my I'd be holding up my big bear ham because I'm gonna cut it up, marinate it, and share it with everybody, and they're like, Why don't you just go to the store and get your meat? I'm like, Where do you think the meat in the store comes from? Some factory farm where there's a hundred thousand chickens in one thing and they slaughter them all. They live in a little cage.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:36

So when she was younger and getting got the bug for hunting her grandpa on their side of the family and not mine, he's like opposite of everything to me. And so he would always be like, just go and buy it, just go, you just go to the grocery store. You can't just go buy some veal. And I'm like, Do you not realize how veal is treated? Like these baby calves stuck in cages and they can't even move. Fed milk. Fed milk. And I know people are like, Well, that's what they're drinking, they're fattening them up as fast as they can at the youngest age, straight to the slaughterhouse. They have no and I'm like, you mean to tell me you would rather me support that than me going into the mountains when it's free, fair chase, yeah, and getting something that is 100% organic, yeah, and being able to bring that home or have my kids kill that animal, and now they're doing the whole process. Yeah, it's it's it's an interesting world that we live in between the two different realms of hunting and non-hunters.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:37

We had an old friend years ago uh and take it or leave it, whatever. He used to call it people were city it's because they live in the city and not totally derogatory, but he's like, they have the city mind lifestyle. They're raised in the city, they go to the grocery store for everything, they've never been outside the city, they've never been to a farm or into the bush or into the woods to check out anything. It's like when you hunt and fish and camp, it's a lifestyle. Yeah, and when your kids grow up and or they get exposed to it, it's like this is amazing. I've told I don't know how many people, especially the last couple months, is like a lot of these kids that are in cities and even towns now that have never been outside. I'm like, you know what would do them justice? Take them out into the woods, let them go camping and do all that we did when we were kids. There was a outdoor edit was called we had, which was cool. We learned about hunting, trapping, camping, fire starting, safety. Like this is Alberta, redneck.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:24

That's why I are what I are. Yeah um, but I was like, a lot of these kids take them out to a farm, like an old school farm, three days. I would used to say a week. I'm like, I don't think they'll last it. Three days to actually see what entails how you get your milk in the grocery store, how you get those chicken nuggets at your, you know, whatever it is. I'm like, they would be blown away. Most of them would probably hate it, but maybe would click in some. It's like this is the roots of why we survive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:51

So this is where life starts.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:53

And just a work ethic and respect and all of the different things that go in it. I mean, on my grandpa's farm, you got up. You there was no choice about getting up in the morning. It was like you're up, you gotta go down, milk cows, do all of that, get all that done, clean up everything. Then you come up and have breakfast. And then all day there was shit to do.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:10

Yeah, when you got a full day put in before breakfast, it's pretty bad.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:14

It's yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:15

Yeah, so you're calling open the key to get home as fast as possible because grandpa's whooping your ass.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:22

But I mean, I loved it. I thrived on it. I loved being there.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:25

Look at that, look at what that creates for your future. Because when you're especially with these kids, and that's why I feel we're getting so far away because these I see these these young kids and they just the most basic little things, and they're just they complain over it. Yeah. And it's like, God, I used to tell them the girls, I used to make a hundred dollars a day, which was so much, throwing bales of hay all summer. That's all I'd do. I'd ride my bike hour out into the country to this farmer. My brother and I, we would just throw bales. He'd drive his tractor and I would just walk beside, throwing bales all day. Yeah, all and then have a guy on stack and we'd ride our bike, and I'd be cut just shredded at the end of the haying season, and then they'd do a second cut, and then you're like, Yeah, but it was a and he would just give us a crisp hundred dollar bill every day. That's pretty good. Oh that's big money. I mean, we were there from sunup to sundown, and then you're stacking it in the barn, and everything that went along with the process, but that right there, I was like, God, if and then I'd get like a normal job. I remember getting my first real job, like working at a gas station or at a grocery store, and everybody was bitching in there, and I'm pulling shelves like I'm in an AC, I'm sitting here drinking baby juice out of the jars. I'm like, this is the greatest, this is the greatest job in the world. I was like, I'm not out in the sun throwing bales of hay all day. I'm like, you guys have no idea. I'm eating Slim Jims and drinking baby juice, apple juice, apple juice, you know, out of pulling the shelves in the morning. I was like, this is I'll do this all day. This is that, but that sets up your character, it sets up work ethic.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:49

I mean, look at that generation. So, like, my grandparents born 1919 and 1921 is when they were born. And I spent, I wasn't raised by them, but I spent a lot of time there. Anytime I could be up there, I was gone. Yeah. Grandpa, oh, you need somebody to crawl inside the combine, pick me, I'll go. Like, oh, you need to pick rocks, shovel shit. I didn't care. I was gone. Um, but their ethics, it was just it was old school. Your word was your word, your handshake was your handshake. If they said they were gonna be there, hell or high water, they were there. Um, they never had a lot. My grandparents were pretty poor, but everything they had, they shared.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:20

A whole generation.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:21

And it was just like, I think I'm glad I got raised with part of that. And I I'm glad I got raised, not rich, not having anything. We had what we needed. There was people way worse than us, way, way, way worse than us. We did okay. But it was like if I don't know, it it makes you appreciate more. I think and now you look back and things that you take for granted, and I was like, oh no. I I mean, if I ever get sentimental, it's usually because I'll talk about my grandparents. I wish I had more time with them. Just because I moved away, started a family and stuff, and I was like, I mean, that was my world for probably eight years, was just grandparents. Yeah. Okay, my grandparents. That's why, and that's why when I found out, uh well, I said that even before when we got married and stuff. I was like, when I do become a nana, because that's what we're called, nana and papa, um, I have those as examples, but I have their everything that I learned from them. Now I can get even better because I want to be I want to be the best grandparent I can to my grandkids, and I want to pass on all of the stuff. Like, so two of our granddaughters, one was three months old, and Hazel was four-ish, whatever that Christmas was. They both got a 22 for Christmas.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:30

Good.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:30

Um, we have a new grandbaby that was just born seven weeks ago. Their parents will probably figure it out. She's gonna get a gun this Christmas because we want that's how we want to raise them. Hazel, ever since she was we little, well, okay, let's talk Addie. Addie was two months old, our oldest daughter's daughter, and Jenna came out and she was hunting and she wanted to go whitetail hunting and stuff. So we're cruising on like these old logging roads and it's frozen and everything, and um, or logging trails. So here's this two, three-month-old baby, and she goes and shoots a whitetail. We have the baby there. Hazel, same thing. We'll go chicken, we call them chicken hunting, it's grouse hunting. Yeah, but I grew up calling them chickens. So we'll be in the in the side by side and we'll go down all these trails and stuff and we'll go hunt grouse. Well, ever since she was how old would she have been? Maybe not even a a year and a half or whatever. She wants to go. So we put her car seat in the side by side, we kill a grouse, we bring her a feather, and she's like, Yeah, this is like a little baby, and she still loves it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:25

So here's a question for a grandma. Do you love your grandkids more than you loved your your kids? I know it's a different type of love, but you guys are super involved in your very tight family from what I've known you guys over the last decade at least. Like, what's it uh how is the it is a different love.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:45

Okay. I don't know that I can say it's more or less because it's different.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:49

Um, like people say, like, I loved all my kids. Each one of them had different qualities and stuff. I have four, so there's you know, you love one, there it's all the same love, but you have different connections with them. Like people are saying, Well, are you the same parent to all the kids? And how could I be? No. Because all the kids are different, so you kind of parent them a little different. Um, with the grandbabies, I think what's I mean, I've just blown away. My daughters had babies. So when my when I was carrying my daughters, their eggs inside of them were developing for when they got mature to have their babies. Fact. So in the Bible, when it talks about uh, I knew you when you were in your mother's womb, I knitted you in your mother's womb. The first time I read that after Hazel was born, it freaked me out. I got goosebumps, I balled, and it it finally clicked. I was it was like, okay, now this I used to think I understood that verse. I mean, I got this. Now it's and I was like, Whoa, it just hit you in the heart, and I was like, okay, so you were divinely created. You were here on purpose. Like it wasn't like some like it's why. So I think as an as a grandma, that connection is really, really strong. I mean, I I I mean, one day I'll have it too.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:57

Well, the Bible says um to leave an inheritance for your children's children. Yeah, for your children's children. But it can be, but godly godly inheritance.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:07

Well, it's what are you gonna pass on to your kids to the next generation? So we have our kids, right? And your your girls are getting older now too, so someday that's all gonna happen, and you'll be a papa or a grandpa or whatever. It it will happen. It might just run up and slap you in the face one day, but one day it'll happen. Believe me, when it first happened with me, I was like, holy smokes. Like, we're here, we're here, and I mean, I'm thrilled, I'm loving it, but then I'm like, Well, all these questions. Because you hold other people's kids and your kids, but now it's like this is your your baby's baby, and it's it's it's different. Like, I I mean, I love them. We spent time with the three of them together right before we left to come down to the States, yeah. And I mean, I'm just like, I don't know. I just I just love it. I don't even know I don't even know what the right words to describe it, it's just like so fulfilling. Yeah, and I mean, not people are like, oh yeah, it's great because you can spoil them and give them back. I'm like, yeah, but when you have them with you, it's so special. Um I don't know. I get all like woo-hoo about it, but it is.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:06

I heard uh I don't know if it was a quote or a statement. Because you know how the the famous saying, like, you can't bring it with you. You can't bring it with you. Oh yeah. Well, you work your whole life, you can't bring it with you. And this guy goes, I'll argue that all day. He goes, the one thing you could bring with you are your children.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:22

People, people by by raising your kids in a Christian home. Yeah, in heaven. Yes. Oh, I get goosebumps thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:31

It's people, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:33

Then that and that's that was one of those things where I was like, Whoa, okay. Like that sinks in because you know, you grow up your hole, you can't bring you oh, he made all this money, couldn't bring it with him, you know, worked his whole life, couldn't bring it with it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:45

Yeah, but what can you? Your your children, your children, and your children's children, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:49

Yeah, it is it's cool to think, like you know, once you start processing like that, yeah, that changes everything.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:55

That's the legacy. That is what I'm after. That's the legacy.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:59

I know you have.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:00

That's the legacy, that's the heritage, that's what you want to pass down. You want to pass down things to your children that'll give them eternal eternal things and things that they can carry on to their families and their marriages, and then eventually great grandkids, all that other stuff. Like money is one thing, money's great, it's a tool, it's a tool, but it's not eternal.

SPEAKER_03: 1:26:20

Nope.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:21

It's a tool, and that's some of the richest clients. And we've had we've had our fair number of like mind-blowing people that have incredible amounts of money, and most of them now are the most normal people. They said it's just a tool, honey. Yeah, and it's all how you use that tool, just like your wrench, just like your hammer, you gotta use it properly. And I was like, ah, so you gotta think of it as different.

SPEAKER_00: 1:26:42

Yeah, money is money is an interesting thing.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:44

When you stop looking at it as like money, and the Bible says people misquote it, in my opinion, the money is the root of all evil. No, it's the love of money is the root of all evil.

SPEAKER_03: 1:26:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:54

Because money is a tool. Let me tell you, in our early years of marriage, the first six, five, six, seven years, if we had more money, it would have been a hell of a lot easier. I mean, you didn't have to worry about, okay, we need formula and diapers. We have no money. Okay, let's pick out of the couch, find a five cent here, dig in this old, oh, this winter coat has 50 cents there. That's when we'd go push our we ran out of gas so many times, push in our old Chevy up to the gas, and we'd put in like five dollars, pay five dollars of coins, put five bucks back then you could actually get a decent amount of gas for five bucks. Yeah, not now, it's like it's a couple worth in it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:27:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:28

Um, so yeah, when you come from that, everything you appreciate. And I think so. What you're saying with the kids and all that stuff too, it's uh I have a thankfulness now. I mean, I always have, but it's just increased. Where it's like you have to be thankful my opinion again, everything there there, you have to be thankful and grateful for because if you take anything for granted, it can go on like like that fast. Whether it's a relationship, whether it's a parent, I mean money, health, mobility, all of these different things you have to be thankful for. Absolutely. So when we talk, it's like when we're driving, most of the time when we get most of our business or our big, big talks, we're driving me and him. And it'd be like we'd we get so in depth and we solve all the world's problems, we have all these business plans, we can figure out everything, and it's just like and you're talking to God, and you're you know, it's just you're bouncing things back and forth, and it's like, whoa, light bulb goes on. I'm like, whoa, thank you, Jesus, this is pretty good. What do you think? We're like, holy crap, why didn't we think about that? Well, because we didn't ask God, and we didn't we're kind of trying to do it ourselves and not really.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28:31

And it's so crazy because, like you said, I mean, since you've we've met, you've been praying for me. I I feel like I'm a change, I'm a definitely different person from the early days of when you first met me. Uh a lot has changed uh since then, yeah for the good. Yeah, but yeah, it it's it's crazy when you start to lean on him of the doors that open, the doors that close, and when you start stop fighting it and start just embracing it, how you just uh okay, like alright, it's your will, it's it's hey, it's in your hands now. Like we used to work what direction stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:08

It was like, okay, we need thinking of an example, say a business deal, it's like, okay, God, like, oh, we're getting, you know, because it's crunch. It's making money, you're not making money, paying the bills, not paying the bills. Then it took us a bit, but then we're like, okay, no, whatever your will is, like, what do you want for us? Do you because you gotta, as you grow, and it takes a while, because I thought in my twenties, I'm like, okay, I got this, like, I understand a lot of this. And I was baby, but I thought I understand a lot about I read the Bible lots and I listened to a lot. I tried to, I'm a researcher. Um, I like doing that type of stuff, and I thought, okay, I under like a verse, I understand this. And then in my 30s, I was like, whoa, I learned more, and it was just like it's still the same verse or same idea, but it just expands and it and mushrooms. I'm gonna say my age now. Then in my 40s, I was like, holy crap, in my twenties was I thought I knew something, I didn't know shit, but it's still the same concept or same. Verse now in my 50s, I was like, Wow, like you're it's funny if I'm and it's the same scripture, same book. Like I'll reread some of the books that I read 20 years ago, and I read it now, I was like, Whoa, you know, like that movie.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:13

Those are those seasons going back on seasons because you you're you've experienced things in different ways, and then when you go back to an old scripture or something that you think you know, you have different life experiences, so it means something completely different different and it goes on and it's just like oh, I thought I understood this.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30:31

This is just wow, like you just it's like your mind just opens up and it's like, no, this is this is the like it's uh like eating baby food the first little bite, and then as you go, you get a they get to eat a little bit more, a little bit more, and then they're like, Oh, let's eat everything. Dumb example, but with scripture and learning these things, it's like at first it was, but if I would have known more, could I have understood it? I guess does that make sense? Knowing and understanding, I could have heard it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:57

Yeah, well, look at our kids. Like hear they hear us bitching about shit all the time and nothing, and then some stranger says something to them.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:02

They're like, Whoa, I'm gonna do this. Yeah, yeah. Our kids are like, Yeah, you were pretty smart when we were young. I was like, mm-hmm. I know say the same thing to my parents, but it was like, Yeah. And we just another thing we talked about on a podcast we did a while back was about where it says you want your kids to launch from where you end, right? Launching from your shoulders. And when I was younger, a lot of the parents of that age, even my stepdad would say, Well, you don't need to do that. You need to start from the bottom and you need to work your ass off, and you don't need any handouts and whatever. Maybe a little bit of that is true, like worth ethic and stuff like that. But when it comes to what you've learned, um, whether it be through the Bible, your, you know, your Christian walk from work, from family, and everything, I think I wanted like what we wanted to do, we wanted to launch our kids from where, you know, as their 20s and going out and stuff. We want them to have all the knowledge that it took us forever to know. And I mean, not in an arrogant way or anything. It was just like we want to impart all of this to them as they're growing so that them when they encounter these things, they have some knowledge of it. I don't want them to start at the bottom and struggle with everything.

SPEAKER_00: 1:32:12

That's their bottom, though. But I mean, if you can give anybody a boost, why would you not? On knowledge, on faith, anything along those lines. Why you know I I'm 100% with you. Now I'm not we're in no means, at least these kids are not inheriting anything because we don't have shit. But um, but you know, even it's it's like hey, cool. We've learned all this together.

SPEAKER_02: 1:32:32

Values, values, morals, values, morals, morals are not, or common sense. There's a good one. Thinking common sense, it common sense isn't common anymore.

SPEAKER_00: 1:32:41

Questioning, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:32:42

Like I look at Hazel right now, and sometimes like she asks questions all day. And she's when we're driving, sometimes she'll talk all like nonstop all day of just narrating her life. My mom was like, I think I know where she gets that from, her grandma, her mom, but anyways. Um, but just questions, and I'm like, that's what you want. And people like, oh, she needs to be quiet. No, no, no, no. That's the mind, that's a very healthy mind. And she's in inquiring about everything, and she's like, What did she ask the other day? Something crazy when we're driving here, just something out of the blue is like whatever it was. I can't remember what it was. And we're like, wow, Hazel, that is an amazing question for the six-year-old.

SPEAKER_00: 1:33:20

See, and it's and you have to reinforce the question. Like, that's a great question because you never want to hush the kids.

SPEAKER_03: 1:33:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:33:31

Because then that's how they just fall in line.

SPEAKER_03: 1:33:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:33:33

And then they just they get right in line with the rest of the sheep and they just go along because they can't, they're they've been hushed, or that's a stupid question.

SPEAKER_03: 1:33:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:33:41

I mean, I don't know how many times there'd be times where I'd be texting Brett, like, this kid will not shut the fuck up. Like in this truck. I don't, I don't think I gotta kill a bear, we gotta kill a deer. Like, I gotta just wearing me, she is wearing me out. But I never it was never like just stop, you know. It was that what's this? What and I would explain everything because I we've never wanted to hush our children because then I've never wanted them to fall in line with the rest. I've like question everything. You have a question, ask. I there's I I don't like saying the phrase there's not stupid questions because I was a Marine and I was an instructor, and there are some dumb questions. But for the most part, for kids, like ask away, ask whatever you need to ask, and then it's just yes, okay, well, why is this? And I would try to spin it back on them. Well, this is why it is like this, but what do you think it is? And things like just to get their minds working and to get them out of the normal, mundane sitting in a classroom, just going along with the flow, getting their their minds just to start. Just being inquisitive and think about stuff. Ask questions, and they ask questions sometimes.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:38

I'm like, hmm, okay, I gotta think about how do I answer age appropriately?

SPEAKER_00: 1:34:43

Yes, that's enough. That's proper.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:45

Um, John will be like, hey Jenna, I think this question was for you. I'm going into the shop. Um, but it's like everything, age appropriate, what you think they can handle at that level.

SPEAKER_03: 1:34:56

Sure.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:56

Like, even with um hunting and stuff, well, why do you gotta kill the bear? I said so we teach taught her. I mean, she's known it since she's been little. I says, Well, we have to kill it so we can eat it. Oh, okay. Not oh my gosh, oh whatever. She she gets it. She trusts Nan and Papa. We're gonna kill it because we're gonna eat it. Yep. And she's like, Can I hunt this year? And like, this year she can hunt with us. Some rules changed in Alberta and now she can hunt with us more. We're we're stoked. 10 years old to hunt the game in Alberta. 10 years old.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:23

That's cool. That's how it is here in Idaho.

SPEAKER_02: 1:35:24

And so it used to be 14. And I I And she can now hunt uh birds. Birds under our license. Like grouse and stuff. Oh nice. Under our license. So it'll be hard. No, you can do 22s. We do archery sometimes if you want to lose some arrows. Um we like the 410.

unknown: 1:35:40

Oh.

SPEAKER_02: 1:35:41

My mom would always say you gotta shoot him in the head with the 22 because you don't want to waste the meat. And I get that. With Hazel, we'll probably let her shoot the 410.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:48

Just pound them.

SPEAKER_02: 1:35:48

Yeah, just just get it, get it going. She loves it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:51

Yeah. I mean so Canada. Very interesting place. What is it like live? What what's the what are your the biggest differences from Canada and the U.S.? Because you guys obviously live, work, have a business in Canada, but you do a lot of time down here in the U.S. What are some of the biggest differences that you guys see that the most Americans probably wouldn't even realize?

SPEAKER_02: 1:36:14

So I love I live in Alberta. I love Alberta. We got a great premier, which would be like your governor or whatever right now.

SPEAKER_03: 1:36:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36:22

Great. Um where we live, I'll I'll preface all this. I live in a bubble. I live out where we hunt on a farm. So when I'm in my bubble, I'm in my happy place. It's like I'm working, doing gardening, baiting, working on the house, whatever. It's a bubble. Life is bliss. Yep. When you go into the cities, you get a reality check.

SPEAKER_03: 1:36:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36:41

Um I guess some of the big things like when it comes to like we can't carry, open carry, we can't carry. Uh right now we can own pistols or handguns. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:50

I don't even think you guys could own handguns.

unknown: 1:36:52

They're banned.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36:52

They're banned now, but we we did our training and everything, and we have our certificate, so we've own them. We can only take them to a range and back or to a gunsmith and back. That's it. We can't buy any. Like handguns in Canada. Wild. Um, unless you have a special permit for different certain exclusions.

SPEAKER_01: 1:37:10

There was 380,000 left in the gun stores in uh Canada. They sold in a day and a half. Yeah. And then that's it. No more can come in now.

SPEAKER_02: 1:37:18

Yeah. And they have like anything that's big, black, has a pistol grip or anything. It's an assault style weapon, which is horse crap, because I have a shotgun that has a pistol grip. It's a 12-gauge shotgun, 12-gauge shotgun, just like any other 12-gauge shotgun, but it's bad because it's black and has a pistol grip. So there's they banned, well, at first it was up to 5,000, then they banned more. There's probably about 6,000, 6,500 guns that are on the banned list right now. Just in the last term, because they're bad. My point was, and he's like, Well, we have to get the hands out of criminals. And I'm like, huh, you're never gonna get the hands out of criminals. I believe, we believe, how we see everything is they just want to disarm us.

SPEAKER_03: 1:37:59

100%.

SPEAKER_02: 1:38:00

Because you can't take over a nation, and people at home will probably get crap. You can see what they've done to other countries. Or in the past, you disarm just disarm a community, disarm a nation. That's how you take control. Um, that's a big thing in Canada.

SPEAKER_03: 1:38:13

They we we the healthcare sucks.

SPEAKER_00: 1:38:15

Yeah, health care. Okay, so everybody wants free health care. We we get down here in the US, free oh, everybody deserves free health care. I mean, you guys have so they talk about that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:38:24

So when we see friends down here, like, oh, it's so great, you have free health care, blah, blah, blah. Okay, number one, not free. Okay. You get taxed through the nose for it. Number two, health care can be decent. Like, if you're going to have a baby, that's usually pretty good. You get care and everything, you don't have to pay. If you have an emergency, depending on the emergency, you go to the emergency room. If it's life-threatening, yeah, they'll take care of you soon. If it's minimal, 10 hours, 24 hours. We've had people sit in like broken arm, the emergency's busy, you'll sit there for 24 hours before you get in. Yeah. Um, knee surgery. Here's a good example. I blew up my knee. Dumb story, but anyways, I blew up my knee right before uh move season one year, fell out of the back of my truck when I was loading at Costco, spun it, blew out the ACL, MCL, all the cartilage, like it was like a spaghetti leg. Had to go in and see my doctor, convince him that it wasn't a sprain, because he told me it was a sprain. So convince him that it wasn't, so then I need to see a specialist. So I can only get a referral to a specialist from my normal doctor, like my regular general doctor. That took three months. So I went and seen the specialist. Oh no, he made the appointment in three months. So three months after that, I got to see the specialist. Six months after I've injured, I still am walking on crutches. By this time, I went and bypassed the system, got a custom-made carbon brace. They said you have to keep off of it. I'm like, I have to work. So I went and got that then. So I'm hobbling. So six months now on a blown-out knee with a crappy leg, hurting the other hip. So six months in, see the specialist. Well, the earliest I can get you in is in six months. A year.

SPEAKER_00: 1:39:55

You're a year out from a blown knee?

SPEAKER_02: 1:39:57

Yeah, year out. And I got the surgery, it was crap. Like they had, and after that, they did one more procedure. It was called um, where they stretch it out and try it, because I couldn't get mo uh any bend. Like I was at about 60%, which is pretty pathetic.

SPEAKER_03: 1:40:12

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:13

Um, so I had four three more surgeries after that, three more procedures after that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:40:16

That's how long did that take to get in?

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:18

Uh so uh five months, six months. So the first surgery I got in 2015 in September. Whatever, I think it was September, can't even remember anymore. Yeah, September, October. Um, and then so that was 15, 16, 17, 18. I had surgeries.

SPEAKER_00: 1:40:34

So you're four years in before your knees.

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:37

Uh and it's still it's 85%. Like I still can't, if you want to put your leg out flat, mine doesn't straighten all the way, and you know the test is if you can s squat and put your knees in, you should be able to touch your heel to your bum? Not happening.

SPEAKER_00: 1:40:50

Oh, hell no. I've never been able to do that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:55

We start from scratch, and I'm like, No, leave it. I mean, hunting, doing stuff with the kids, everything was just crap.

SPEAKER_00: 1:41:02

With free health MRI for a brain scan, do you think?

SPEAKER_02: 1:41:04

Oh, here I'll say, Do you want me to say it in here? Yeah. So MRI, here's another thing. So um a person in our family needed a brain scan. We did blood work, and they're like, hey, you need to get this checked out. You might have like a growth or something on your pituitary. Cool. She went in to see the doctor in April this year, and the doctor's like, Oh, no worries, we'll get you in for MRI right away. We need this is in your brain, and it's messing with everything in your life, right? Your hormone, it's your pituitary gland. Okay, we'll get you in quick, whatever, whatever. November. He schedules it for November. Does that sound quick to you? November, and it's something that's in your brain that's affecting your whole body. So we come down to our doctor here in Utah, because that's who I go to now. We all go to, we go in, she sees them, gets the thing for MRI. We go in the next day, she has an MRI, has her results back that day, she's good.

SPEAKER_00: 1:41:52

So you're telling me with Canadian free health care, you're coming all the way down from northern Alberta to Salt Lake City.

SPEAKER_02: 1:42:03

Paying cash to get stuff done now.

SPEAKER_00: 1:42:06

It's that far out. So, how does the quality of doctors is it do they are they because they have a salary cap, they're only allowed to make so much money per year.

SPEAKER_01: 1:42:14

So when they reach that cap, some of them leave or quit working or go on holidays or whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 1:42:19

So we have a doctor shortage, so they might only work six months. That's a doctor shortage.

SPEAKER_00: 1:42:23

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_02: 1:42:27

This is where I'm they're not qualified under Canadian standards. So there's a give and take. I'm like, that may be a good thing, but if these doctors are qualified and can write a test and perform that they are equal or better than the Canadian doctors, they should be able to work. Well, there's a lot of them that want to come work, but they can't, they can't just pass a test. They can't just get kind of what's the word that they call it, where you can write a test and stuff and just get in and start working. You have to go through, re-go through the Canadian process. So doctors don't want to stay. A lot of doctors don't want to stay in Canada because it's a pain in the butt.

SPEAKER_00: 1:42:58

So you're telling me, let's say, let's say the cap's 200,000. I don't know, you know, it's whatever doctors make. The second that doctor makes their 200 grand, they're done for the year? Because they so they're just working for free after that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:43:10

That's what we've heard.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:11

So now there's a so then that leaves a doctor shortage. Yeah. And then now you're four or five years up.

SPEAKER_01: 1:43:16

A lot of good nurses, a lot of good doctors, they want to come work in the state.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:18

They go work in the states. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:20

I mean, this is hilarious because everybody's down here bitching about free healthcare.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:24

So there is still good doctors. Don't get me wrong. There is still good doctors. Our daughter's family has a really good doctor.

SPEAKER_03: 1:43:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:30

Um, they're few, but they're full. They they can't take any more patients, like they don't have the time to take more patients. Or they're getting old. A lot of the doctors, you know, you get older, you retire and stuff. Um, there is, I don't want to sound like a total because there is a purpose for having free health care. Like, I mean, having a baby.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:48

What's the advantage?

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:49

Kids, uh to the people that are poor, 50% for it. To the people have low income, people that are poor, so they can go have a baby. Because I mean, down here, what does it cost to have a baby? 10, 20, 30,000? I don't even know. Or C-section, like that costs a lot of money. Get a nurse knee surgery, it costs you money, right? If you don't have insurance, so there's pros and cons, but like my example is my knee, my shoulder, too. I blew up my shoulder and it was like, well, we'll have to get you insured in surgery, we'll put you on a waiting list. Well, it was a year away, and I'm like, I'm just gonna try to get it healed on its own. It's not worth it. And then the surgery was, well, you could have 60 to 70 percent. That's what their expectation was, because I'm younger than most people that get that sh uh shoulder surgery. This is what this doctor was telling me. And I was like, Well, 60 or 70, I think I can, or you could do it, try to heal it and do physio and all that yourself. And I'm like, I've had enough surgeries, like I've had a lot. So we're no surgery and shoulders are functioning enough that I can pull my bow and lift my grandbabies, life is good.

SPEAKER_00: 1:44:50

Yeah, that's interesting. So another big bitch down here, or not I guess bitch down here, but another big topic is tariffs.

SPEAKER_02: 1:44:56

That's a pain in the ass.

SPEAKER_00: 1:44:58

How are how how do tariffs affect you guys?

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:00

So, and I mean a lot of Canadians don't even know this. Canada's always been tariffing other people.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:05

For sure.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:06

For sure.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:06

We've Wells Americans don't know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:08

And and like anything we ordered in from any country, we pay duty and stuff when it comes in.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:12

You guys don't make anything. What do you what not what are you guys making besides natural resources? What do you what maple syrup? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:18

There's lots of there's lots of like the tourism stuff, a lot of the the mining, the exploration of natural gas, oil, all that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:27

But the majority of everything you're Amazoning is either coming from China or the US.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:32

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:33

You guys aren't producing really a lot in Canada besides natural resources.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:36

Lumber, stuff like that. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I might be negligent on some, but I mean it's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:41

I know there's businesses, but I'm talking like you guys don't have major So we manufacture fishing tackle as well, along with hunting scents and hunting products.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:48

Yeah. So just like every other year, I order all my components that we need, and we source as much as we can from the states, because that's what we do. We want to buy from the states, they're our neighbor. I mean, we probably wouldn't be too far without them right now, but anyways, um, and that's like we try not to buy from China or anywhere else because the free trade, and this is what we want to do. Um, so we ordered all this stuff in, I get it in, I'd already prepaid it all on the credit card, it gets in, and then you have to pay like brokerage fees and you know, all this import stuff, all of that shipping, all of that shit.

SPEAKER_03: 1:46:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 1:46:20

And then I get another bill after it, and I was like, whoa, no, no, no, no. I already paid the shipping and I already paid, oh no, this is this is for tariffs. I'm like, we don't have tariffs yet. We didn't know it got implemented March 12th or 13th, I can't remember. So I ordered all this stuff, and the tariffs have kicked in, so I had to pay like 485 bucks of on top of everything, on top of everything else. So when you're thinking like fishing tackle, it's not like you're making thousands of dollars a profit per item, so it's like pennies per profit on some stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:46:49

You can't source in Canada. You can't fish hooks made in Canada.

SPEAKER_02: 1:46:53

The fish hooks are made in US.

SPEAKER_01: 1:46:55

That it's Mustad is Norway, Norway, BMC is France. So you can get hooks from some other country.

SPEAKER_02: 1:47:00

You can buy crap from China, but it's crap, it'll rust and fall apart. And there's certain like anything you're making with your name on it, you have to have a certain quality of components to put in it, otherwise you're not putting your name on it. So I was just like, so Canada put tariffs on the US, but they're not punishing the US because the Canadians still have to buy their components, their products, whatever. So you're punishing us. So now it's the GST, the PST, the carbon tax, this tax, tariffs. I'm like, holy smokes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:47:28

Blows my mind that you guys have a carbon tax and you have the most trees out of we have unemployed trees.

SPEAKER_02: 1:47:35

That's the joke. It's all a big millions of them. It it's just it, I don't even like talking about it because that one gets me going. Because they're collecting billions of dollars basically.

SPEAKER_00: 1:47:44

Off of a off of a carbon tax.

SPEAKER_02: 1:47:47

But meanwhile, you have more lumber than that was supposed to go into the you know, into infrastructure and all these different things we thought. That's what the big game was, and to offset climate change. That's a big but, anyways, um, there's no climate change, not up where we live. Anyways, so where's all this money going? It's like the government's raping in this money and we're off of everybody that's working hard. Where does it go? They give little kickbacks to people that aren't making as much, uh, or they used to, they don't do it now, but they did a carbon tax rebate to people that were lower income for a while. Kind of be like, oh, that each household gets this back. Kind of a like, it's almost like we're gonna take a lot, but if we give back to the big voice just a little bit, crumbs, crumbs, yeah, crumbs, I call it crumbs, then it keeps them quiet, right? Yeah, where's that money goes?

SPEAKER_00: 1:48:30

And you keep getting the votes that keep you in office. So social media and news outlets, they filter some stuff up there, don't they?

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:39

Everything censored.

SPEAKER_00: 1:48:40

Really?

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:40

So even people, if you want to watch Canadian news, I suggest not because it's all funded by the Canadian government.

SPEAKER_00: 1:48:46

Oh, so it's no different. Fully funded. Okay. It sounds like a communist country, doesn't it? I mean, I didn't want to sound extremely ignorant by saying this, but I feel like conversations I've had, because I I grew up on the Canadian border. I mean, I'm whatever. Anyways, it does sound like a mini communist country. Like, I don't want to say like North Korea, but like how they and people are gonna hear this be like, dude, I've been Canadian my whole life, I don't have any problems, but you guys, I feel for your average Canadian spend way more time down in the US than the average Canadian does.

SPEAKER_02: 1:49:20

Well, you get your and we do, and you get your eyes opened.

SPEAKER_00: 1:49:23

So you guys are seeing what free freedom, and here we are bitching about the stupidest shit here, and then you guys are probably like, Why are you guys why is this even an issue?

SPEAKER_02: 1:49:30

Well, people joked, and I've said it lots too. It's like Chinata. I mean Chinata. When Trudeau was still in our past prime minister, his favorite people in the world, he says he says it, it's on video, it's on YouTube, it's everywhere, is China and uh Cuba.

SPEAKER_00: 1:49:46

The leadership wasn't his dad Fidelicral or something.

SPEAKER_02: 1:49:50

Hearsay that it is. I mean, matched some pictures and stuff. His mom was running around with different men like that. Hearsay that was that's what we're reported. I mean, I wasn't alive then, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:49:59

Yeah, it was the saddest day when that when Pastor died.

SPEAKER_02: 1:50:02

To him. So and Canada was always had a relationship with Cuba.

SPEAKER_00: 1:50:06

What is wrong with Canada? Like, where where are you guys why are you guys so fucked up?

SPEAKER_02: 1:50:10

Uh look at the UK.

SPEAKER_00: 1:50:13

You guys have the most beautiful, amazing kind.

SPEAKER_02: 1:50:15

I mean, I guess we're still basically governed from the UK. The the crown, you still guys still have the crown. You still have to pay homage to the crown.

SPEAKER_00: 1:50:21

See, that's your problem.

SPEAKER_02: 1:50:22

Yeah, every time the it's like when that's what somebody was saying down here is like when you have a war and you have a battle, you take them out. So you don't have to serve them anymore. Cut the ties from the crown, and I'm like, Because that's why our our public land is called Crown Land. It is Crown Land. We have imperial banks, government-owned banks.

SPEAKER_01: 1:50:41

The courthouse is the courthouse is the uh the Queen's Bench.

SPEAKER_00: 1:50:45

Yeah, yeah, you guys gotta get rid of that shit.

SPEAKER_02: 1:50:47

Yeah, well, I'm like, I don't know how how Alberta's working on it. It's just Alberta's working on sovereignty right now. They're getting their own uh pension. Because we've been Alberta's I feel like its own thing.

SPEAKER_00: 1:51:02

Like when Trump was joking around, like, oh, we're gonna make Canada the next state. I'm 100% against it. But I mean, Alberta seems like we just you guys are kind of like the the bastard children of all the providences, right? I mean, I feel you guys kind of do your own thing else money.

SPEAKER_02: 1:51:17

We make the Vegas GDP. So in Canada, I think it was in the 70s, uh it was Pierre Elliott Trudeau and his cronies back then put in the equalization payment. So every province that made a surplus had put it into the I'm gonna I'm probably gonna screw it up, but put it in an Ottawa's pot. Okay. And then Ottawa, the government, would decide where that pot would be divvyed up to. So right now, um Alberta puts in, is it 70? 70 billion dollars. We get back about 20. So when you put it into the pot, so a uh province like Quebec this year is getting almost a$14 billion pull out of the pot. So BC, British Columbia, Alberta, and Saskatchewan get zero. We put lots in, but we get zero. And that's why Alberta's like the Alberta people are getting fed up. Like we have lots of oil and gas. We're uh a rich, we're a very rich province, and we've always we like I had to say in anything, they've always shared and everything, but it's like it's getting to the point now where the government, they've got all these limitations and legalities and things that you, you know, no new pipelines, um, difference in drilling, fracking, um, all of this different stuff where they want to hamper all the oil and gas, which if you think about it, buy Middle East Oil. Yeah, they're buying Middle East oil and buy shit from overseas, but it's like you're not that you're cutting off the hand that's feeding you, but it's like you want Alberta to make all this money because it's putting in it all the pot for Ottawa for all the cronies to spend. And I know this sounds bad, but it's just how I say it. So you're doing that, but then you're making all these rules and regulations so Alberta can't make money. So you're cutting your own throat, basically, because if Alberta can't do the oil and gas and all the different things that they're doing and expand and get it to different ports to get more out and make like billions of dollars. I forget what it was like, I forget the number that the premier was saying. It's like you're cutting your own throat because this is where we're making money. So if you don't let us make more, Ottawa's not gonna get more. But they think we can do it all on electric cars and all this other crap. And I'm like, do they see where we live?

SPEAKER_00: 1:53:12

By 2035, they want all electric, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:53:16

I'm like, do you see where we live?

SPEAKER_00: 1:53:18

I just I don't okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:53:19

This is City it's yeah, city, it's they don't understand what it is to do.

SPEAKER_00: 1:53:25

How do you not look at California that that was California's big push? Everything's gonna go electric, and then they don't even have they don't have the grid total. Yeah, they don't even they can't even do what hold they cannot literally provide enough power for what they have now.

SPEAKER_03: 1:53:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:53:38

And then Canada's like, we're gonna do the same. How do you not look at this? I just this is where my biggest frustration comes from is two things. How everybody is not on the same page, like, oh this does make sense. Like, this is a little weird. But instead, people just like go the it's the sheep old mentality, right? But then it's like I I want to sit down with these politicians and be like, listen, motherfucker, make this make sense. Yeah, make this make sense, like how in your mind, well, what where are the benefits here? Because you're the politician, you have all these angles. Why is giving 14 billion dollars to Ugandans to learn how to be transgender? What how does that make sense? Right? Like, why does my money going there make money funneling?

SPEAKER_02: 1:54:23

Those places you can funnel money 100%. That's all it comes down to, and it's you look at the world's agenda, the World Economic Forum, and all this different stuff, and Bill Gates and all this other stuff. It's like you have to be an ostrich with a blindfold and headset on in a hole and never come out to not see and understand some of the stuff that's going on. They want you out of the country. They're look at in Oregon, they just they shut it down, right? They were trying to uh make it so all these small farms couldn't operate. There's gonna be about 4,000 farms that were if I'm quoting all this right, about 4,000 farms that would be affected because selling eggs or local produce, they were gonna put all these laws and stuff in that it have to jump hoops they couldn't do it anymore. So everybody spoke just like the public land thing, kiboshed it. So I think in Canada it's the same thing. If they can get you all out of the country and buy up the farms and get you, because now they're doing this uh you heard about the 25 by 25, the 30 by 30, where slowly the government is taking back land, whether it's public or private, because they want it to be is it 50% or 30%? I can't remember now. Eventually, 30% of the land back. So whether it's hunting area, aboriginal area, cities, it's been happening already. People have are losing areas of their hunting and stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 1:55:34

There was a conspiracy, and then at our outfitters meetings, they talked about it. This is happening.

SPEAKER_02: 1:55:41

And they'll use they'll use caribou as an excuse to reclaim the land. They'll use this as an excuse. You can't do this, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:55:48

And I'm like finch is nesting in this forest, we gotta shut it down.

SPEAKER_02: 1:55:54

We drove through where were we driving through Iowa this spring when we're coming back from South Carolina and Georgia? And I was Iowa. We all the way is it Iowa? How do you say it?

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:05

Iowa.

SPEAKER_02: 1:56:05

Iowa?

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:06

Yeah, Iowa.

SPEAKER_02: 1:56:08

I'm a Canadian age.

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:10

Canadian shit. I'm fucking with you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:56:12

Canadian age.

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:12

I thought you were talking about some city in Canada until you said Carolina.

SPEAKER_02: 1:56:16

Um we're driving through there, and it was like all these beautiful little farms with their silos and their cattle and their crops, and I'm like, this is amazing. You still have some in Canada, but not the same. In Canada, if you have a farm, uh beef, poultry, pork, eggs, whatever, you have to buy a quota from the government.

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:33

What's what do you mean by a quota?

SPEAKER_02: 1:56:34

So a quota.

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:35

Say that you can't just go start a farm, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:56:36

No, you can start a little farm and then you can do little growing, but if you want to grow and produce and put into the market big time for like eggs or chickens or or pork, you have to have a quota. The government basically sells you a quota and gives you permission to have X amount of chickens and sell X amount of eggs. So as a private person, I think there's I think you can have a hundred. You have to buy another farm. I could have a hundred chickens on my place. But if I get more than a, I think it was a hundred, maybe it was two. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_00: 1:57:01

You guys are 100% communist country.

SPEAKER_02: 1:57:03

So if you have more, then the government can come in and shut you down. That's why our dairy, our cheese, our eggs, our chicken are insanely expensive. No shit.

SPEAKER_03: 1:57:14

Hold on.

SPEAKER_02: 1:57:15

So a five-pound bag of shredded cheese, just wait, a five-pound bag of shredded cheese here that you can get at Costco or let's say Sam's Club, easy one. Sam's Club. I think it's like 10 or 11 bucks for five pounds of shredded cheese. Okay. Right? Five pounds, yeah. At home, that same bag at like um, you can't get them at Costco, but like at a wholesaler or whatever, 38 to 42 bucks. And I know people are gonna say, well, that's US to Canadian. Doesn't matter. We're talking dollar for dollar. Okay. You make a hundred thousand Canadian a year, it's that dollar. You make a hundred thousand US, that's that dollar. We're just talking dollar for dollar.

SPEAKER_01: 1:57:47

So you're telling why we can't just get your milk and your cheese to come across to our country to make it cheap? They're tariffed. Canada nails.

SPEAKER_02: 1:57:55

Taxes the shit out of them. 250%.

SPEAKER_01: 1:57:59

That's why we're not bringing it out of the yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:58:00

That's why there's no dairy from the states in there.

SPEAKER_01: 1:58:02

Your own government is taxing Yeah, if a Canadian distributor wanted to bring in your milk and your cheese from here to make it. 250% tax, so you can't make it a little bit at a at a lower one, but it's like peanuts.

SPEAKER_00: 1:58:15

And then you're so you're saying if the farm overproduces milk or eggs, any dairy, and it's over the quota, that the government will destroy it?

SPEAKER_02: 1:58:24

That was just happening in on was it Ontario last week or the week or two?

SPEAKER_00: 1:58:27

So your guys' prices are that high and they're wasting in the amount of poverty on these uh throughout the cities and reservations and everything.

SPEAKER_02: 1:58:34

You exceeded your quota.

SPEAKER_00: 1:58:35

So if you exceed your quota on milk, let's say your quota is a thousand gallons a month and you go over that, they're making you dump what whatever's and they'll share for you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:58:43

There is a place in British Columbia here over the summer they grow ostriches.

SPEAKER_04: 1:58:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:58:48

Okay, for ostrich meat and stuff. And they were talking all this bird flu crap and all this difference because restaurants have ostrich meat and emu meat. It's actually, I've had it. It's decent.

SPEAKER_03: 1:58:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:58:56

Different, but decent. But anyways. Um, so they had what is the I just forgot what it's called. Anyways, the government group from Canada for Environment and Crap was coming out and saying you have to euthanize these birds. They could be carrying the bird flu. And the people are like, I'm misquoting some of this, I'm sure, because I always do, but it's like their birds are perfectly healthy, and they're like, well, no, no, they can't be here. So they wanted to come out and kill, was it 40 ostriches or a hundred ostriches?

SPEAKER_01: 1:59:20

There was a couple that got it, maybe one got it. I don't know the numbers for sure, but so they wanted to kill them all.

SPEAKER_02: 1:59:25

But they kept on coming out.

SPEAKER_01: 1:59:27

So the farmers like they're fine to it right now. These these birds have the immunity to that bird flu.

SPEAKER_02: 1:59:33

But the government agency was dead set on coming. They were all over social media trying to get people to help them fight. The government agency was dead set that they had to come in and kill these ostriches. And the family is like, This is our livelihood, like, this is what we do. We raise these, but get them butchered and sell them to restaurants and stuff like that, or whatever it was. Yeah, so just another example of oh controlled, damn.

SPEAKER_00: 1:59:55

I didn't know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:59:56

Now there's other sides of it like where we live in our bubble. Like I said, when you're in the bubble. You're hunting, doing your gardening, whatever, going to the little town. It's all pretty chill until you open up your ears and your eyes to what's really happening around you. And then you're like, that's why I said my bubble's a good thing, and it can be, it's kind of uh uh what do you call it, good or bad? Because in the bubble it's great, but then if you don't go outside of it, it's like holy crap, like during COVID, it was insane. We were totally locked down in COVID.

SPEAKER_00: 2:00:24

I can't even imagine, yeah. I mean, it was bad here.

SPEAKER_02: 2:00:27

I mean, they didn't even we couldn't get hunters in for two years.

SPEAKER_00: 2:00:29

Yeah, how did that how bad did that affect you guys?

SPEAKER_02: 2:00:32

Uh low American income. Two years of yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:00:35

I mean, and nobody in Canada is booking bear hunts because you could just anybody can get a tag and go do they wouldn't take them.

SPEAKER_02: 2:00:40

We we wouldn't take locals because we I mean our clients had already paid a deposit and stuff, so it was like we wanted to be honorable, which we did. And it was like so the year, but we thought this happened in March, so we thought that may everything open. It didn't. And then by that fall, we're like, well, geez, it's got to open by this fall. This is ridiculous. So we're still honoring. Then when it came to next spring, we're like, holy crap, like we're we're floating with our nose above water. Yeah. I mean, you want to talk debt maxed out because you've got to keep everything going. You can't because and the other thing was is when the season would start the following year in 21, it was like it's definitely gonna be open. So you're putting all your money into baiting, getting the stands. You you have to, because if these clients can come, because they were talking about it all the time.

SPEAKER_00: 2:01:20

So coming.

SPEAKER_02: 2:01:21

Well, the government was saying, well, we might open the border, and it was all this like, oh, so it's like if they say it's opened like next week and we're not prepared, we look like it was only closed for like 30 days at a time.

SPEAKER_01: 2:01:31

Every 30 days they'd reevaluate.

SPEAKER_02: 2:01:33

Yeah, but they kept that going.

SPEAKER_00: 2:01:34

So you had to operate.

SPEAKER_02: 2:01:38

We chose to operate and we chose to be prepared in case our clients could come because we didn't want them to take all that money. Well, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:01:48

And then you have clients were not gonna take any locals because a lot of outfitters were taking locals at a reduced rate, so yeah, like that's their choice if that's what they want, and we think that was cool.

SPEAKER_02: 2:01:58

You want to do it for us with our relationship with our clients. We're like we just couldn't do it. It just didn't seem honorable because we already had some of them. And a lot of them were like, they've been with us five years, ten years, fifteen years. It's like you can't. We we just us the way we think, we just I I couldn't I I respect that we couldn't, and we suffered for it big time. We lost a lot on it, but here we are. We made it through, and that was that whole foundation thing back to without God at the bottom. Oh man, some days we're like, what are we gonna do? Yeah, everything's max, credit cards are max, loans are max because you have to pay bills. I'm like, what do you do? Well, we made lots of fishing tackle, we went on the road, did like we did 30 years ago, store to store, selling stuff, getting back into other stores, and it was like we're here. We don't know how some days we made it. We don't, I don't. I'm like, wow.

unknown: 2:02:48

God's help.

SPEAKER_02: 2:02:48

There was miracles, there was things happening. Financial stuff that would happen, and we're like, holy crap, like wow, it's God.

SPEAKER_01: 2:02:54

One time we had so hard to say it. I'll cry.

SPEAKER_02: 2:02:57

Don't say it. Don't cry.

SPEAKER_01: 2:02:59

We were a few days away from the mortgage. We didn't have the money in the bank to pay the mortgage. And so a friend from the states says, Hey, this guy in Canada owes me money and he wants to pay me back.

SPEAKER_02: 2:03:11

He says, He told him to send that guy instead of giving him back the money, told him to send it to us, and what he sent us covered our mortgage.

SPEAKER_03: 2:03:18

Really?

SPEAKER_02: 2:03:18

No shit. And it was like we we we did what was God.

SPEAKER_01: 2:03:21

This is Bert Soran from Stornext. Bert, whatever you felt to do that, that was God. That was God. Recognize that that was God. If you ever feel that again, you know, you know that it's God.

SPEAKER_02: 2:03:30

And some people just brush it off and like, no, this is big. We're we're tapped out, like we're believing that we're gonna get the money, and we always hope that it's gonna be there, and you have faith it's gonna be there. I don't care what anybody says, I can say that, but it's always I say I let it all go, but I'm still like you you can't not help but think about it. Okay, so are they gonna call the mortgage? Are they like, you know, all these different things which you shouldn't think so much about? He's like, you need to have faith. I'm like, I have faith, but I'm also realist. It's like if you don't have the money and there is people losing their homes, losing their businesses right, left, and center.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04:02

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 2:04:04

Yeah, there's some that have been there for like 20, 30 years gone. And they can't reopen, they lost everything.

SPEAKER_00: 2:04:10

So it's like meanwhile, the the Providence is just they're just collecting billions of dollars and they can't help these people get their life back on the case.

SPEAKER_02: 2:04:17

It's insane.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04:18

Yeah, the federal government lent small businesses sixty thousand dollars through COVID, and if you paid it back by a certain date, you could pay back 40, so you could get to keep the 20. Well, then they taxed you on the 20 that you and if you didn't pay back the 40 by that ding, it was Christmas, I think, one year, whatever the year was 2023 or something, um, they would start with interest after that, yeah, monthly payments and everything.

SPEAKER_00: 2:04:42

So there's people just ruined them.

SPEAKER_02: 2:04:44

And we didn't we didn't take it, we didn't take it, we we didn't take it, and then closer, I forget when it was, eventually we we had big fights, big talks about this. We had we don't want to take it, but it was at the point is like if we don't apply for this, like where else is I mean, sixty thousand dollars is a lot of money, it can pay all of these bills that are just stacking up. So then we did that, and we did take it, and we regretted it, but we're kind of rocking a hard place. What do you do? And we thought, no worries, we'll get it back. Well, then we still didn't get clients in for quite a while. Hey, so we thought we'd have income, we'd get this back.

SPEAKER_01: 2:05:19

The money's spent baiting over the it's gone.

SPEAKER_02: 2:05:22

So Damn. But that is a we had another miracle, we paid that 40,000 off.

SPEAKER_01: 2:05:27

It was awesome. We had uh some clients in, and before they left.

SPEAKER_02: 2:05:32

We're talking to them about stuff, they're asking how we're doing it, and they're like, Okay, well, we're gonna buy this hunt, and we're like, This is awesome, thank you so much. You don't know how much is this happening. Well, how about we buy this hunt and this and this hunt for next year? And we're like, Are you serious? Yeah, and we started, we're like all great and thankful and everything, and they end up believing. We talk about it, we look at it and we're like, This is exactly what we need to cap off that amount so we can pay off the government, really, like almost to the dollar, and we're like, Really, this is unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00: 2:05:56

Yep, that's great.

SPEAKER_02: 2:05:57

One of those guys you know his mutual friend. Yeah, unbelievable stuff. So there is still miracles. Sometimes you gotta look between the lines to see them, but these ones it's just like right in your face.

SPEAKER_00: 2:06:06

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 2:06:07

And sometimes sometimes you gotta put foot to it too. Oh, yeah. It's like you can pray for stuff, but if you're just sitting here going, uh, I need fifty thousand dollars, can you drop it off a cloud?

SPEAKER_01: 2:06:17

No, the Bible says faith without works is dead. So you gotta go do something. But we call it putting feet to your prayer. Like go out there and hustle.

SPEAKER_02: 2:06:24

You work, and the doors will open, and you just keep on working. You work from the time you get up to the time your head hits the pillow. Yeah, and even sometimes we think about we're planning stuff, we're dreaming about stuff. We'll wake up and we're like, you know about this? I I dreamt this, and they're like, Oh wow, this is cool. And you'll be like, I dreamt how we can figure out this bait, how to set it up different, how to do this, and we're like, So you think even when you're sleeping, you're planning and plotting while you're sleeping.

SPEAKER_01: 2:06:45

Oh, yeah. I want to reverse from Genesis. Us humans are not part of the equation. You know, when it comes to wildlife management and all that stuff, it's just let just let nature take its course, and they don't see us as being part of it. Well, we're created too, right? We're part of this thing, we're like top of the food chain. So this is God speaking. This is Genesis uh chapter one, verse 26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, okay? So us and our what does that mean? It's not just one person, it's not just God. So what does that mean? That's the trinity there with them. The Bible says Jesus was there too. So, okay, so that's cool right there. Um so God created our okay, let us make man in our image after our likeness and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the fowl of the air, over the cattle, over everything on the earth, everything that creeps, everything that's creeping over the earth, basically, everything that lives on the earth. Yep. So it's our job to manage it. Put man in charge of managing everything on the earth. So it's not, oh, leave man out of this, you guys don't belong here, only the animals belong here. What are you talking about? We're all created by God. We're in charge of managing this planet.

SPEAKER_02: 2:07:56

See, but that goes to other parts in the Bible where it talks about people don't worship God anymore. Instead of the creator, they worship the creation. Were you talking about a while ago where these people that get crazy about animals and all this stuff, it's because that's their God. Some people's god is it sounds dumb, but is their car, is their house, is their image, is their life. They don't understand the real concept of God and that's just a creation. Like, look at how many Looney Tunes with all of the animal activist stuff and all of this. It's like they're worshiping the creation. It's like who how did it get here? Who created it? But they did they deny that.

SPEAKER_00: 2:08:30

Yeah. Well, I think that's a hell of a way to end it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:08:36

God's cool.

SPEAKER_00: 2:08:37

I'd say he's pretty okay.

SPEAKER_02: 2:08:39

He's changed my life 100%. Religion sucks. There's a difference between religion and relationship, and people like that's so cliche. Religion, in my opinion, is as soon as somebody, some church, some whatever, wants to put you in rules, regulations, and a box. I had a pastor talk to me 25, no, 30 years ago. He says, Jen, never let anybody put you in a box. And I'm like, what do you mean? As soon as there's regulations and rules, you have to fit in my ideal box so I can accept you the way you are. No, Jesus says you come as you are. Yeah, you don't have to change. People are like, oh, well, you need to stop drinking, you need to stop doing this, you need to stop doing that before you can come to church or go to Jesus. No, that's why you're going to him. You're not going to be perfect. We all still make mistakes. That's why you're going to see, I say it like you're going to see a friend. That's why you're going to talk to him as your friend. Because he's supposed to help you clean up. Because you can't you can't do it on your own.

SPEAKER_00: 2:09:30

No.

SPEAKER_02: 2:09:31

You can try.

SPEAKER_00: 2:09:32

You know what how I look at it, and I guess we could probably finish on this is you know, putting in a box, putting a religion fits a box. And I was talking to my buddy not too long ago, and he's like, Well, why you you know, I'm when I say I'm a Christian, I am not a good Christian. Working on it. Baby Christian, but who's perfect, right? Whatever. But how I look at religions, including Christianity, and how I would have to explain it is if you laid out all the religions on a note card on a table. This is how my mind works. This is how I have to process things. So you're gonna lay out all these different religions, but you don't know the name of the religion, and you get to pick these cards up and read them. So I have to pray five times a day, I have to make this sacrifice and not do this and do this and pray for this and pay this and donate. There's all these requirements. Yeah, but then you pick one up and it says, I just have to believe. I just have to reach.

SPEAKER_02: 2:10:31

Yeah. You just come to me.

SPEAKER_00: 2:10:33

That's it. Yeah, that's it. And that's how I look at it. Like you all these religions, you use all these checks. Yeah, you gotta you gotta repent, you gotta do this, this, this, this, this, you can in order to be accepted, you have to pay this amount. You have to it's and uh and then you look at them, and I'm and everybody will be like, Oh, it's Christianity, every religion's got its problems and its flaws. Absolutely, but like if you were looking at them all laid out and you just saw what you had to do to get to heaven, and then there was this one card in the middle, and you pick it up and it says, I just have to believe. I'd be like, Oh, that's pretty simple.

SPEAKER_02: 2:11:03

No brainer. Yeah, so a brainer. No, it's not.

SPEAKER_01: 2:11:07

No. What did Jesus say? Love your enemies, pray for them.

unknown: 2:11:10

What?

SPEAKER_02: 2:11:11

Yeah, that's not all the same.

SPEAKER_00: 2:11:13

That's I need help with that one.

SPEAKER_02: 2:11:16

Religion versus relationship, rules and regulations versus relationship. Who wouldn't want a relationship with somebody that you can always go to, you can always talk to, you can read a book, and the whole instruction manual is there how to have a good marriage, how to raise your kids, how to work hard, how to love one another, how to feed how to feed the poor, how to be happy, how to be joyful, how to be thankful. I mean, I don't know. I'm kind of always been a little bit of a rebel, so I don't like that people you're a female. You shouldn't be, you know, maybe you shouldn't guide or oh you're the the biggest one, you're the outfitter's wife. Uh nobody, I'm my outfitter too. I have my own outfitting company. I'm like, I I guess it's just a man's job, you know? That's stereotypical. Don't let people put you in a box. No, it's not worth it, it's not worth it. Same with your kids. It's like that's why you're raising them the way you're raising them, because you don't want society to put them in a little box. You, you belong here, you need to do this.

SPEAKER_00: 2:12:12

Nah. That's my biggest problem when people say that oh, I fell away from the church. I fell from you, I fell away from man. Yeah, got whatever problems you have, because that was mine when I grew up and I grew up raised a pastor's kid and experienced the world, went overseas, saw shit, whatever. That's when I fell away. But it's like the oh, the church, the church, the church. The church is man, yeah. The church isn't God. Yeah, that's how I look at it. And some people may argue it, but that's when people oh, fuck the church. Church burned me. I'm not I f I fell away from Christianity because it just left me. Just a cop out.

SPEAKER_02: 2:12:49

But it is, but it is, but people judge God on a human's actions.

SPEAKER_00: 2:12:54

100%.

SPEAKER_02: 2:12:55

We are all flawed. I don't care who you are, how much money you have, how Christian ease you are. I like and even to die. Yeah. And I don't it sounds bad now, but I don't even like calling myself a Christian because it sounds cliche because it's got this bad. I'm like, I I'm a believer. I believe in Christ, I believe he died for my sins, and I believe through him I I can have eternal life and I can have a good life, period.

SPEAKER_00: 2:13:18

Yep. Like it just in looking at how my mind works and you you say you look at Buddhists or Muslims or whatever it may be, and they have all these weird things, and there's all these rituals and ceremonies and and all these things that come with these different religions, and then it was like, oh wait, Jesus is the only one to ever die. The only the only I won't say leader, figure, God, that died for the sinners. Not we have to make these sacrifices in order to be accepted to get into this heaven or accepted by the gods. He did it for us. And so like I'm like, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01: 2:14:09

Sin was death, yeah. And he took it for us.

SPEAKER_00: 2:14:11

And it and to me, the Bible and how and not to get we're not even gonna start this chapter or this episode, but like when you start looking at the Bible, then you start looking at things around the world, you're like, that makes sense. Wait, this is like this because that makes sense, and things start lining up, and I'm like, okay, if things are lining up by things that are documented from thousands of years ago, from a lot of other societies, like Romans, culture, Sumerians, all these different they all wrote about cross-references in the Bible. Jordan James shows that I'm rambling.

SPEAKER_02: 2:14:52

It's not just the Bible, and then it and they all said he was a good man, he was a prophet, he was an extraordinary man, he healed people, he was uh whatever, whatever. But they all like these other cultures that didn't need to write about him, they have him in there.

SPEAKER_01: 2:15:07

And all saying he's a that wrote about Jesus too, that said he was crucified. There's so much evidence that like people say it's a fairy tale, or you you have to believe by faith, yes, totally so much evidence now, it's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00: 2:15:19

But believing by faith is the hardest part. Yeah, that's that's the kicker is when you truly have to believe, and that's the hardest part for people I feel for people to do.

SPEAKER_02: 2:15:27

It is, but when you start talking to him and thanking him for stuff and understanding some stuff and believing for things, and you see things happen, when you see your child healed of something, you see them. Sorry, this will get me, you see stuff happen. I had stuff happen to me that I like I prayed, I I couldn't breathe, different things happen, and it's just like that. Oh, coincidence. You can believe in coincidence, I'll believe in Christ.

SPEAKER_03: 2:15:50

Yeah, there's no coincidence.

SPEAKER_02: 2:15:51

Because I was asking for his help and it happened. Or an allergy, prayed for a kid. My or pastor prayed for Jordan when he was little, like wickedly allergic to strawberries, had asthma, we're in um the emergency all the time, getting put on the ventil, uh, what do you call them?

SPEAKER_00: 2:16:04

Ventilators. Yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 2:16:06

Yeah, it was it was bad. And we'd visit anybody that had dust, dogs, anything. We were in there for like 12, 15 hours. He prayed for him. It's done, gone, nothing. Like, like that, that doesn't happen. The doctor's like, is he okay? Like, because we're supposed to go up for checkups and stuff. I'm like, no, he's good. No reaction. Have you been around dogs? So we'd go to places, we had friends that had dogs, and it was really dusty, and we kind of we thought, we gotta do this. We have to do this, we have to go back and do the test. We believed he's healed, we've seen he was healed, but we had to know. So we took him back there. Nothing, no emergency trip, no coughing, no asthmatic, no nothing. We're like, this is Jesus.

SPEAKER_01: 2:16:42

Yeah, a miracle a few years ago. She had a cancer scare, she had a uh 10 centimeter tumor on her ovary.

SPEAKER_02: 2:16:48

Twelve centimeter almost a 12 centimeter three-part conglomerate.

SPEAKER_01: 2:16:51

Softball. Yeah, and it ruptured the three-part conglomerate, one of them was a solid, and they think that solid part's gonna be the same.

SPEAKER_02: 2:16:56

They thought it was cancer. So that was in 2020. So my whole this is my whole world got changed because after that it was like life and death. That's all that mattered. And long story short, they did the surgery. That surgery I got in pretty quick. It was like three and a half, four weeks before I I got that surgery. Whatever that is, it dies at the root. Yeah, that was because we didn't know, and we were believing it wasn't cancer, but you don't know. It was this big mass. And I did have pain for quite a few years, just didn't know what it was. And the doctors were like, ah, like, is it menopause? Is it all this different way too much information? But, anyways, so we had the surgery, it was hell, it was hell for me. Like, I didn't you want to talk about being you you can understand it. Here you are normal, then you're in this position. It's like so it's like they cut me this big because they couldn't take it out in pieces in case it was cancer. If it was cancer, they're gonna take out I was gonna become I joke the game of operation. Remember that game?

SPEAKER_00: 2:17:52

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You get buzzed, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:17:54

Yeah, and uh they tested stuff on the table and they said it doesn't appear that there's any cancer, but we're gonna send it away for full pathology, do pathology and stuff. So um, I can't say it good. If you can hear them after we were I had to go for a six-week checkup, yeah, but they called and they said I think we're like at three, three, four weeks when they got the pathology back.

SPEAKER_01: 2:18:17

So the full pathology report comes back on this thing, and we're still concerned, you know, we're sure we're believing that it's not gonna be cancer. But the doctor called and says, Um, well, I guess we'll never know what it was because all the cells were dead. Really?

SPEAKER_02: 2:18:29

Yeah. She says, I've got good news, and she says, uh, some kind of I'd I was like, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:18:36

So we told her that's what we prayed for, that's what people were praying for. I says, We believed it would. She goes, Well, we'll call this a miracle, then. Yeah. Really?

SPEAKER_02: 2:18:42

Yeah. And all of the friends, like, we're talking five, six, seven thousand people, maybe more, that were praying for me. I'm serious. Just with all the people we know. The church that we used to go to had 14,000 people, just all the friends, just everything. Anyone that knew, and they would all tell their friends, and everybody was praying. So when we got that result, and I was just, I mean, of course, you're you're believing it was. I was just like, I told myself, I you need to talk.

SPEAKER_01: 2:19:07

I the day after she killed a giant mule deer. Yeah. At 72 yards.

SPEAKER_00: 2:19:11

Kill figure.

SPEAKER_02: 2:19:12

Yeah. So that was my mood uh miracle meal. The day before we went to Edmonton for the meet six uh six six week checkup to give you the all clear.

SPEAKER_01: 2:19:20

And the next day I went back to Silent Alburn and Chierro this big deer.

SPEAKER_02: 2:19:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 2:19:23

Love it.

SPEAKER_02: 2:19:24

That that that word is one word that puts a lot of fear in people.

SPEAKER_03: 2:19:28

For sure.

SPEAKER_02: 2:19:28

And um, it changes your life, it flips you upside down. So after that, I mean I always love God, I always prayed, I always loved Jesus, I'd always talk to people, but yeah, you know, kind of like these parable type stories are not really in your face or whatever. And now since then it's it was life and death in front of me.

SPEAKER_01: 2:19:47

Like it was I mean, I had lost when the Bible talks about a peace that surpasses all understanding. That's what I wanted to talk about that she's experienced at that morning going in for surgery. The people at the hospital the doctors are asking me, okay.

SPEAKER_02: 2:19:59

Is she okay? The nurses are like, You're okay. Because I was like, I don't, I can't explain it. I can't explain it. I was just sitting there. I mean Jesus were in the zone. I don't know how else to say it. I was like so like calm and peaceful, and that is peace that surpasses all understanding. He's like, Are you okay? And I'm like, I I I wasn't worried about anything. I'm like, I either I have the surgery and it's great, or I go see Jesus. I'm cool. But I mean, and the doctors are like, Are you sure she's okay? Like, do you need anything? And I'm like, No. So the one anesthesiologist that came in and he was gonna do my um IV and all of that stuff. I was talking to him and he says, Honey, are you okay? I says, Oh no, I'm good. He says, You're not talking much. I says, No, I'm just I'm talking to Jesus. He says, Oh, okay. And then we talked a little bit, and he says, He he knew he was a Christian, yeah. And I was like, I'm just I'm totally at peace. Whatever happens, happens. Because they're worried if you you're scared you're gonna not make it out of the surgery. You know how they do all that stuff. Yeah. So that was um life-changing events. So from there till now it's like life or death. My kids come at, you know, oh, get all angry about this. The kids are fighting. I'm like, is it life or death? No, and if it is, let's talk to Jesus. So now when I go out, I'm like, Jesus is here. I mean, I wouldn't be here without him and my life. Yeah. They told me that on Instagram constantly.

SPEAKER_01: 2:21:21

Can you just leave that out?

SPEAKER_02: 2:21:22

I'm like, well, then I guess you're gonna have to go somewhere else because without that, I'm not me. So I'm not here without it.

SPEAKER_00: 2:21:28

Well, good.

SPEAKER_02: 2:21:29

That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00: 2:21:30

Yeah. Well, I appreciate this conversation.

SPEAKER_02: 2:21:32

Thanks, John.

SPEAKER_00: 2:21:34

I know we need to, I don't have my little have a two-mic setup. We we could run headphones, but we're just my little voice in the background. We've tried. We we did one and it just it was it was such a shit show, but we never even aired it. But I appreciate the conversation. Appreciate you having us. Just a little little quick are we going to church tomorrow? Yeah, actually. Well, yeah. You guys go? Oh, yeah, Stonehill. Or I'm sorry, Rock Harbor. Um, we used to go to Stonehill, we go to Rock Harbor. Yeah, he texted me to seeing what time um we're going. I don't think there's a kid service, so we could pretty much go anytime tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02: 2:22:06

So you think mark this date and you just see like when you look back from this a month, a year, whatever, and you think, wow, look what God's done from here.

SPEAKER_01: 2:22:13

Oh, look what he's done from Roman quit drinking. Rovin's going to church.

SPEAKER_00: 2:22:17

I heard. It's phenomenal. I heard. Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02: 2:22:21

Thanks so much. Yeah, we have we have a pretty wild history now.

SPEAKER_00: 2:22:24

Always good catching up, huh? It's always I love I only get to see you guys at the Hunt Expo every year for a couple few minutes, but this was great. This was awesome. Thank you. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02: 2:22:32

Thank you too. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 2:22:36

This should do an hour, an hour and a half. It's two and twenty two hours and twenty two minutes.