#83 - Stolen Youth: Cons, Cults, and Kidnapping w/Jacine Jadresko

A van door slides open at midnight and two strangers say she isn’t going home. That moment—engineered by her parents—sent Jacine into a notorious WWASP “behavioral program” in Mexico where abuse and brainwashing replaced help. 

We go where most stories don’t. Jacine Jadresko breaks down how she hacked punitive level systems as a teen, the toll it took, and why high-functioning addiction hid in plain sight for years. She shares two fentanyl overdoses, the mindset shift that ended heroin, and the unglamorous habits that keep her steady. Then we step into the Amazon: earning hunters’ respect, learning to mix plant poisons, blow-darting a monkey on the first try, and tasting the difference between survival and spectacle. 

This is a story of pure survival, never heard before. Buckle up for this one, you will have your jaw open the entire time.

To learn more and follow Jacine on her world travels and adventure, give her a follow: https://www.instagram.com/jacineunseen/

If you’re drawn to stories of survival that become maps, this one’s for you: how to build a simple business that buys your time, how to trust your instincts without worshiping fear, and how to choose a life wide enough to hold the past without letting it steer. If it moved you, share it with a friend, subscribe for more conversations that don’t flinch, and leave a review with the moment you can’t stop thinking about.

Chapters

• 0:00 The Night She Was Taken
• 0:51 Meet Jacine: Life On The Move
• 3:37 Childhood, Genius, And Violence
• 11:12 Kicked Out At Fourteen
• 13:06 Mexico Setup And The Van
• 14:44 Inside The WASP Program
• 18:19 Abuse, Levels, And Control
• 22:09 Escape At Seventeen
• 24:13 Aftermath, Addiction, And Motherhood
• 29:14 High-Functioning Heroin And Fentanyl Warnings
• 35:24 Choosing To Stop And Mental Strength
• 40:52 Why She Travels Alone
• 45:40 Amazon Tribes And Blow Darts
• 50:05 Eating Monkey And Tribal Life
• 56:12 Ayahuasca: Preparation And Myths
• 1:00:19 Ceremony, Icaros, And Gentle Healing
• 1:05:31 Breathwork, DMT, And The Pink Moth
• 1:10:08 Hypnotherapy And The Black Tar
• 1:17:12 Solo Travel Risks: Bolivia Night Scare
• 1:23:15 Assault Abroad And Resilience
• 1:28:38 Loyalty, Family, And Boundaries
• 1:34:33 Building A Business To Fund Freedom
• 1:37:12 Why Tribes: Humanity Without Noise
• 1:42:06 Congo, War Zones, And Judgment Calls
• 1:48:40 Borneo’s Avatar Forest And Orangutans
• 1:53:56 Perspective, Purpose, And What’s Next

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

It was like midnight, I think. I'm just not paying attention. I'm listening to my music. We were picked up in this van. Don't know what city I'm in. My parents get out, and all of a sudden these like two huge guys get in. I remember I'm like 14. And I'm like, what's going on? They're like, hey, you need to come with us. You're not going home. Like you're gonna be here till you're 18. We can do this the easy way, or we can do this the hard way. You're stuck here now, but you're coming with us. Like, fuck you, it's gonna be the hard way. They were dragging me out of this van, plunging and biting and screaming, and I just remember looking over and seeing my parents.

SPEAKER_03: 0:28

I'm like screaming at them. Wait.

SPEAKER_04: 0:51

Jacine, we have a lot to unpack.

SPEAKER_00: 0:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 0:55

You came honestly, highly recommended by a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00: 0:59

I did.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01

I've had people for the last six, seven months drop your name. That's buddies of mine. Well, I've been in the they're like, you have to get. I'm like, I want to, but you're a Canadian woman. So and you're and not even just that, you're on the road. So you live a very fascinating life. Yeah. You travel the world, you've been to about 50 different countries. 49. 49 countries. You've hunted in 14, 15 different countries. You had a pretty crazy childhood. You got child trafficked between the ages of 14 and 17. Yeah. Um, you've had some pretty rough relationships, you've had some pretty crazy run-ins overseas. You sent me some videos of you eating monkeys in the jungle of the Amazon, which with a blow dart. Yeah, which I respect because I've eaten baboon. So I think that's how that conversation started. We have a lot to unpack because you at the same time reading your bio, you've gone through a lot of traumatic, really horrible things in your life, but you're not letting that define who you are, and you are just thriving. You have a very successful business, you're all over the world doing some of the most incredible things that I watch, and I'm just like, What? And you do it on your own. Yeah, I do. I go alone everywhere. That's that's my biggest as a girl dad. I'm like, what is wrong with you? Like, why?

SPEAKER_00: 2:26

Just have no fear. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 2:28

It's crazy to me. And so I watch this and I'm like, God, this woman is just one day you're on the top of a mountain climbing something, and the next day you're in a wooden canoe. Yeah, literally.

SPEAKER_00: 2:40

In the fort. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:42

That's your life. And you're hunting stuff all over the place. You just did a family moose trip. All three of you, your brother and dad killed a moose. Yeah. So yeah, we have a lot to unpack.

SPEAKER_00: 2:52

I flew directly from Benin, Africa to Fort McMurray, Alberta. Like directly from living with tribes in Africa to hunting. Like, no break in between. Straight from the tribe to the bush. Like, there's no chill, no breaks.

SPEAKER_04: 3:06

This is why we're at you. I feel if there's any woman. Yeah, home three days. You shot a moose and then flew straight here. If there's anybody, a woman that I've ever met that just from the social media, and I think we've met like 10 years ago was the first time we had our interaction. You are 100% wild chaos. At least your social media looks like it.

SPEAKER_00: 3:27

Yeah, I'll take it.

SPEAKER_04: 3:28

There's nothing wrong with it. So Jasene.

SPEAKER_00: 3:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 3:32

Where are you? Where I don't even know where to start with this. Who are you? Where are you from?

SPEAKER_00: 3:37

Yeah. So I mean, technically, home base is Victoria, BC, Canada. Born and raised. Um. But even pretty young, I started with the travel. So when I was 20 years old, I had my son, he's born on my 20th birthday.

SPEAKER_03: 3:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 3:51

And when he was eight months old, I was just like, I want to go somewhere. I want to do something. So I packed up one suitcase and moved with him at 20 to Croatia. Where I didn't know anyone. I didn't speak the language. I didn't know anything about it. I just knew my family's Croatian. So I should go there.

SPEAKER_04: 4:06

I was just gonna ask, because I've been trying to figure it out. Okay, so you're Croatian. Croatian, yeah. Okay, so you just up and packed, didn't you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 4:13

20 years old, eight-month-old baby, one-way ticket. I'll figure it out when I get there. How? I don't know. You're 20 and fearless, I guess. Like when you're 20, you don't think about things. Like you're just stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 4:27

Yeah, 100%. So let's back up to childhood. Because you put in your bio, and if you're cool with this stuff, I want to touch on childhood because there's a lot of women. We actually have a huge woman following. Which is crazy to me.

SPEAKER_00: 4:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 4:41

But it I love it.

SPEAKER_00: 4:43

I I listen to every podcast.

SPEAKER_04: 4:44

You do. I mean, you're constantly tagging us all from all over the world. Some of the craziest backdrops with the podcast going on, which I love and I I really appreciate it. So how what childhood? Where where did you grow up at?

SPEAKER_00: 4:56

So I grew up in Victoria. Okay. Victoria, BC. Um, really a tight-knit family. Like my grandma daycared me, my brother, my sister, and all my cousins. So we were all, you know, with the family. My parents ended up like my grandparents had a big acreage. My parents bought part of that and built our family home on it. So it was like me, my parents, my grandparents all on one property.

SPEAKER_04: 5:21

Um how was that growing up? I mean, that's that's a more of a cult. Is that a Croatian culture?

SPEAKER_00: 5:27

Okay, so I guess my brother like was married and still living at home with mom and dad before he moved out. Like it's very Croatian families all stick together. Um I moved out when I was 14. Why? Um home wasn't that great. Dad was tough. He was really rough. Um it's hard for me to navigate because I don't want anyone to like think bad about my family, right? So I don't want to talk bad about my family, but it was just really tough there.

SPEAKER_04: 6:02

And people obviously change too. I mean, I'm not speaking for anybody, but there's a lot of people, and especially our parents' generation, didn't have the best generation ahead of them. So they have a they I feel yeah, I'm going through it with my parents.

SPEAKER_00: 6:17

Like, there's a lot of generational trauma from the original grandparents, especially my grandparents being these Croatian immigrants, they were tough, tough, like whipping with sticks and beating and like just brutal. So, but just like one example, I don't remember how old I was. I actually don't have really any memory before the age of 12. Really unpacking that lately. Yeah. Um but around that age, probably 12-ish, 11, 12, I could remember. You know, I had my hat on backwards. I was always a tomboy, right? And my dad was always really mad about that. He wanted me to be girly, and I just it just wasn't me.

SPEAKER_01: 6:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:55

Um, anyways, yeah, he blew his lid, freaked out, like grabbed me, dragged me up the stairs, went into my bedroom, like kicked out the screens, took everything that I owned in my bedroom, like the sheets, blankets, clothes, pictures, CDs, everything, threw it all out, dragged me back down the stairs, grabbed a gas can, poured gas over everything, made me light it on fire, like shoving my face in the fire, burned my eyelashes and eyebrows off, like watch your shit burn. Cause I had a backwards hat on.

SPEAKER_03: 7:23

You know, it was like okay. Yeah. All right, that paints the picture.

SPEAKER_00: 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 7:27

So it forced close now, so yeah, which and that's why I wanted to say that like there's I think a lot of our parents, and I I want to speak for a lot of our generation with boomer parents, there's a lot to unpack because it was way different times. We are now obviously you being a mom, and you were a young mom at 20. And even at 20 years old and a mom, you're so immature at things like the because the wife and I talk about like grew up with my son.

SPEAKER_00: 7:58

Like I was a baby, I was 20, but I was a baby raising a baby.

SPEAKER_04: 8:01

A hundred percent. And you have no, I don't want to say life experience at this point, but you were young, and so then as we mature and we grow, and our parents are doing a lot of the same thing. I think a lot of our parents' generation are realizing they did their best, but it it was just it was a lot of that reflection from our grandparents. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 8:20

So I don't see each generation gets like softer, 100%.

SPEAKER_04: 8:24

And I feel that's where we're at now as our generation, we're finding that happy medium of you know, like us, we run our house with a I'm not when I say an iron fist, and I'm like beating my kids and yelling at them. But rules are rules, but there's a lot, there's structure, and then that's but there's a lot of lenience, and I'm you know, cool, like you know, I want them to have the freedom, I want them to be able to discover and figure things out before they're out of the house. So, but with us, it was like everything was on. I grew up in a very Christian home, so everything was demonic, everything's from a sin, and and so I was immediately the black sheep, and I was like, I'm out of here, you know, I gotta go. And that was what you know what I had to unpack with the rest of that shit. Yeah. Throughout my lifetime, it was like, okay, cool, this isn't for me. And then now as a father, I look and I'm like, okay, like I my father was a great dad growing up, but then there's a lot of times he was absent, like from my later teens when I started the when the rut started to kick in and hormones and all that stuff. I changed, there was this huge divide. And so as soon as I can get out of there, I signed the military and was gone. So then I look back at everything how was going on, young adult, discovering self in the absence of that, and I'm like, okay, now I know how to fix this from and how to be there for my kids now.

SPEAKER_00: 9:34

So yeah, I think for me too, my dad was gone a lot growing up because he was working and he was always like working out of town and you know, building the business and supporting the family. But then he'd pop in here and there and try and be dad and be tough and whatever, and it just created a big push pull between us. Um, and then on top of that, too. So I was like, I hate saying like I'm super smart, but I was ridiculously smart growing up. Like I was speaking in full sentences at 12 months. I had the whole multiplication table memorized at two years old, skipped grades in school, um, you know, tested at genius IQ at all these things in school, and they're putting in me in extra programs and all this stuff. And uh somewhere around along the line, I don't know at what age, maybe like 11, 12, something, school was boring, right? Because it wasn't challenging me. And they wanted to skip me grades again, but I was already so much younger than everybody from skipping grades previously. It's like you can't be at that age, a two, three-year difference is a big difference.

SPEAKER_03: 10:37

For sure.

SPEAKER_00: 10:38

So I started skipping school and like finding trouble because it was exciting because school was so boring for me. So I kind of started to get into a bit of trouble around that age too, which added to the push-pull with the family for sure.

SPEAKER_04: 10:54

Especially with a strict age time, yeah. So 14 comes and it's time for you to get the hell out of the house. That is a huge step for a four I could not imagine my 14-year-old daughter leaving the home. Uh uh so unpack this for me as a girl dad.

SPEAKER_00: 11:11

Yeah. Um, well, it started with another big fight at home and my dad just being like, get the fuck out. Like, you know, I'm done, get out. And I'm like, perfect, great. I've been waiting for this. Like, I can leave. So I left, and then later on, that turned into like she's a runaway. And I'm like, dude, you kicked me out. Like, I'm not a runaway, you know. Um, but yeah, I moved in. So a lot of my friends were always older than me. I was always the youngest one, both because the peers at school were older and then maturity-wise, right? Because I was always just so much more advanced than everyone my age. So yeah, I had this like group of friends that were renting this like attic in the most like ghetto area of town. It was literally just like an attic. There was no bedroom, no nothing. There was like a half kitchen and a bathroom and a room. And there was just a bunch of mattresses on the floor that we'd put down at night and sleep on and then push back up against the walls in the day and like hang out. I was selling ecstasy to pay rent.

SPEAKER_04: 12:13

Like really? Yeah. At 14, or how long were you there? Really? Yeah, yeah. So 14 years old, you're selling ecstasy. How did you get exposed to ecstasy at 14?

SPEAKER_00: 12:21

Oh, I was do I was already by 14, I was doing ecstasy, mushrooms, acid, and first tried cocaine at 14. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Just the friends I was with, or you know, just like absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 12:37

I mean, you and you don't have you don't have parent parental figures in your life, so you're just going with the flow.

SPEAKER_00: 12:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 12:44

So you how long did you live in this attic slinging ecstasy for?

SPEAKER_00: 12:48

Um it's hard to remember. I don't know, maybe like four or five months. And then something happened there, that broke down, then I went and stayed with another friend for a while, and then that was when I ended up down in Mexico. So my mom told me that she needed this like surgery, which I don't remember what she said it was for. She's like, Oh, I've got something wrong with me. I have to go for surgery. Um, there's a chance I might not make it out of surgery. And I had had um a friend back in school who had lost her mom under anesthesia in surgery. And I was like, Oh, well, like sucks to be you. Hope you do well, hope you make it out, you know, whatever. Bye. And she's like, No, like I really want to spend time with you just in case I don't make it out. And I was just, there was no love there for my parents. I couldn't give cared less if they passed away. I really couldn't have. Um, and she just kept bugging and bugging and bugging me, and she's like, Let's go to Mexico together. They have my parents had a place down there. Um, just the two of us. Like, I won't bring anything up, we'll just hang out. And somehow along the line, she convinced me to go.

SPEAKER_03: 14:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 14:02

So I was like, okay, whatever, like free trip to Mexico, get drunk on the beach, you know, whatever. And uh, and we went, we went down to the family place down in Cabo. But then, like halfway through, my dad showed up, and I was like, Like, why the fuck is dad here? We don't get along. Like, I I want to leave right now. I want to go home, and she's like, Oh, he just wants to spend some time with you. And I was like, Since when? Like, dad's never spent time with me. Even now, we do like I just hunted with my dad and my brother. I'm going on Friday in a few days uh to Mexico to fish the Bisbee with my mom and dad. But even to this day, me and my dad have never one time done anything, just the two of us. Ever.

SPEAKER_04: 14:45

Really?

SPEAKER_00: 14:46

Ever.

SPEAKER_04: 14:46

Have you ever tried? Yes. And it's just no a no from him. Yeah. Interesting. Um do you still have you okay, before we get into the traffic thing, do you feel that you have your dad ever reconciled? Have you ever talked about those things?

SPEAKER_00: 15:03

I've tried. So just recently I brought up this whole Mexico thing and like asked for an apology and he just you just get gaslit. Really?

SPEAKER_04: 15:14

Yeah. How do how I mean how does uh how do you put on a face to just think everything's cool then at that point?

SPEAKER_00: 15:20

I mean, obviously, I don't like it. It took a lot of counseling and therapy. And I just had to make a decision. Like either I keep like being hurt by this and fight this and you know, always want an apology that I'm never gonna get and let it eat away at me and fester and then have these negative feelings towards my family and have basically no relationship with them. I'd have to cut them out of my life for my own mental health, or just accept the fact that they are who they are. I'm never gonna get that from them. I won't get the apology and just take it for face value and still be able to have some kind of relationship with them and have my family in my life. My counselor says I'm crazy. She says, like, cut them out, never talk to them. Like, but they're fat- it's your family, right? Like, what you can't cut out your family. It's so okay.

SPEAKER_04: 16:10

This is like we we have this saying in this house that we call it god shit when there's weird things that happen you just can't explain. Like, I just recently removed my family from my life, like cut off, yeah. Because of a lot of things that have come to head now. So it's that's why I'm I I'm not just asking for total opposite ends here. I'm trying to find a good way to like I grew up opposite, I grew up incredible childhood, incredible parents, but then when I hit the teenage, that's when I've been like shunned. Yeah. And I was always, and then come to find out years later, I don't even know why I'm putting this out on the air, but whatever. They don't watch it anyways. And so I've been through, you know, we've all we're humans, we go through different things, and I've been through some pretty rough times, and then to find out now that my dad that shunned me and disowned me for my earlier mistakes of being the black sheep and just being an idiot, he went through all that shit, and he was never he never came to me and was like, Hey son, like sit out, like I've experienced this, and especially from the Christian point, right? I'm we're Christians in this home, I'm a baby Christian. I fell away from it because and I think a lot of it had to do with them being like these righteous Christians that are on this pedestal looking down on me, and instead of ever connecting with me and coming together as like a dad and a son, especially now as a father, like if I knew my children went through something that I experienced, or my wife went through something that our daughter's going through, we're gonna do everything we can to connect and relate to them.

SPEAKER_01: 17:41

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04: 17:42

But instead, it's you're the problem, yeah, you need to find God, you need to get yourself righteous again, you need the fruit of the Lord. And I'm sitting here like, but what about XYZ, ABC, D F G, everything that they're doing? Why is it just and so that's where I'm at with this, and so it came to a head just literally like last week. And I was I I said my goodbyes because nothing will ever change, and they're like that generation where they're just so it's you, you, you, you. And I'm like, why can't we all just why can't we all just look at each other or look at ourselves in the mirror?

SPEAKER_00: 18:16

Everything is real, there's no accountability. Like my dad will even say things like that never happened, or like you're just making that up, or I'm like, My mom has told me stuff, and I've brought it back up to her.

SPEAKER_04: 18:26

She's like, I never said that. Yeah, I'm like, exactly. My wife's like, you 100% told me this story, why does it happen? And I'm and I'm trying to explain this. And so it's it's I don't know if it's just the ignorance, the gaslighting, the all the typical that generation.

SPEAKER_00: 18:42

That's where I'm that's so this is where I'm so curious about this because you're you're like maybe one day I will just have had enough and cut them out because I've gone back and forth through all the years. Right now, I'm working on trying to, yeah. I I it is toxic. Like even like going hunting, like these little things come up, and there's always like the little digs and the whatever where I just keep my mouth shut and basically let them shit on me or be toxic to me and live in different ways, and I just keep my mouth shut to keep the peace, and it's like, come on, you know. I'm I'm a hundred percent with you. I can't have a do this forever. Like this is hilarious.

SPEAKER_04: 19:22

I'm sure she's over there behind the camera, and like you know, we go home every year, and in the last like five years, I my wife would be like, Let's go. Like, I did she she's like my buffer because she'll see it building in me because like they'll say things, and I'll go to like and she's like, Let's go, let's go for a while. And so I'm and I'm gone the whole entire time. So this last trip, I'm like, why am I even here? Like, why? If you're having to pull me out of these situations, because and my son too, yeah. So when your kids are seeing it, there's a problem.

SPEAKER_00: 19:49

Yeah, he said we all did family Christmas together, and I remember this was just recently, like this last Christmas. And afterwards, he said to me, he was like, Wow, so Bubba is grandma, and then Papa's my dad to him. He's like, He's like, Papa, I think maybe like loves you in his own way. And he's like, But Bubba, like, she actually hates you, like she actually hates you. My own son saying this about my mom, and I'm just like, uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 20:16

Um for him to see that and say that is just but so that's where where I'm at is and I look at my sister, and you I don't know if you how you look at your brother, but I my sister is a de a direct reflection of my mom, so it's just the now that generational curse, I look at it at my sister, and I'm like, you are you're the next mom in the family.

SPEAKER_00: 20:41

And then that now like my brother and my dad, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 20:44

So I'm the bad guy because I'm trying to break this generational curse. And I'm like, I I don't want to be like them. And if this is who how you represent Christianity and Christians, I don't want to be like that because you you judge, you you gossip, you're everything they these little things that you're taking digs at me over. You're like, well, why can't we all just lay our fruit on the table and see see what we have here? But then my sister's like, you need to, you need to pull you this, this, this, this, and uh, yeah. It's like a fucking therapy session right now. Um this is wild chaos. You never know how these episodes are gonna go.

SPEAKER_00: 21:18

But that's exactly what it's like in my family. There's no accountability. Like growing up, we used to get especially me and my mom. I'm talking like I had to beat the shit out of my mom many times. Like Christmas Day, I put our head through the kitchen wall, like right through the drywall, and we had to like patch it and everything the next day. And um, but then always the next day, we'd all just everything's fine. My mom's got all these black eyes and whatever, and we're just all acting like nothing happened because you can't bring it up. Like if I were to bring it up and try to have then it's like I'm the it's just just it's so toxic. I thought I've been the I thought I was the only one.

SPEAKER_04: 21:55

Yeah, this is hilarious.

SPEAKER_00: 21:57

Yeah, so I actually ended up with this like fear of communication that I had to go through a lot of therapy to get over because with my family, you can't bring anything up. You can't talk about yelled at, you're wrong, you're wrong for feeling that way, you're lying, you're making it up, you're gaslit, just all these things. So that went through into relationships where, like, you know, someone would be doing something, friendships or partners that hurt me, and I could never speak up about it or say, Hey, I don't like this, and I would just bottle it up and then until it just blows up. Which is a horrible thing ends everything because of this fear of communication, because my family does not communicate.

SPEAKER_04: 22:35

My wife, my wife is like, You you got my wife's side of the family just as fuck, but in a whole different situation. But she's like, I don't understand you people, and she's like telling my mom this like none of you communicate. She's like, just call your son. They'll talk shit about each other, but we don't communicate. They gossip all day, all day on the phone. All day on the phone, and then you try to bring it up. Nah, that never happened. I never said that. I'm like, mom, you literally just texted it like last week. Yeah. So, well, that's interesting. Um, now that we know that we have the that is hilarious.

SPEAKER_00: 23:06

That's what that was just then recently in January or February this year. I was at dinner, and my dad was there, Mexico got brought up, and I was just like, you know, I've never gotten an apology or anything. And he was just like, I would do it again. I would do it all over again tomorrow if I had to. And I'm like, That's the mindset. You know what that did to me and the way my life went for the next 10 years after that because of this place? Like, you know. Um, but there's just yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 23:36

See, instead of me going to Mexico, I joined the military. That was my out, and I never looked back. And I've yeah, that was it. And then that's so yeah, I've I have at we've brought things up from the past, and it's I'm like, I've sat down with my wife. I'm like, am I the fucking crazy one?

SPEAKER_00: 23:50

They they make you feel like you are, though. They make you feel like you are. That's the whole point of like narcissists, like narcissistic tendencies, right? Absolutely. Gaslighting. And everything. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 24:01

And I'm like, I'm like, I feel like I've my wife's like, you have said these things since I've met you. She's like, nothing has changed. And she's like, but now she sees it, and she's like, Oh, it's all been brought to light. And I'm like, here's the generation, and like I have to snip that vine. And I'm not saying I don't want to reconcile, like, I would it kills me knowing my dad lost a son to cancer, and then now just lost his other son due to life, like us in our disagrees. And I don't last thing I want to do is cut my parents out. But if everything's negative, everything's toxic, I'm I'm the sinner, I'm going to hell, I'm not the proper leader in my family, and like here I am sitting and I'm like, dude, she just out of our giant ass church, she just got accepted out of like a dozen kids out of hundreds and hundreds of kids to be this youth leader, and she did all the the pastors and the pastor's wife, like everybody are pulling hers. I'm like, if we're so in sin and this family's so just got this negative cloud over us, I'm like, why are we being blessed so much? Why is my relationship with my wife right now the greatest it's ever been? Why are my kids thriving? If I'm so cursed and I have this cloud over us and my the fruits of the Lord are not in me, like why am I so blessed right now? Like, I'm like, I pray for all of you, but you're not praying for certain people because they're sinning. And I'm like, is that right? Like, how are we here to judge people? Yeah, so yeah, there's a there's a lot to unwrap.

SPEAKER_00: 25:21

Same, same thing. My parents will constantly try to like harp on me for like the way that I raise my son or my relationship with them. I'm like, me and my son are best friends, like we do everything together. We are literally, he tells me, Mom, you're my best friend all the time. That's the greatest. The most open line of communication. He talk, he'll he calls me and tells me, I had threesome last night. I'm like, I don't need to know the details, you know, and he's like telling me everything. And I'm just like, he's 19. So I was just like, you know, he just tells me everything, and we're so close and we have such a great relationship. And then, like, you know, my parents would make these digs or say things, and I'm like, who are like we only even started getting along in the last like couple of years, and you're gonna try and tell me about being a parent, yeah, you know, um, even being here. So yesterday was Thanksgiving in Canada, and like my dad had to like text me a dig in the morning, like, oh, you're in Idaho not having Thanksgiving with your son. And I'm just like, you know, first of all, my son's like out golfing, he's with the boys, he's 19, he's doing his thing, you know. Um, and he's like, Oh, you should be at home spending time with them. I'm like, Yeah, how much time did you spend with me when I was 19? He goes, Oh, I hung out with you all the time. I'm like, Did you? Like, do you even remember? Because I remember I was pregnant the whole year of 19 and I was nowhere near you.

SPEAKER_04: 26:40

Like, yeah, you're like, I remember specifically because I was pregnant. You don't forget that time period. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Okay, now that we got that therapy session out of the way, I want to know how you got trafficked or sucked into a child trafficking ring.

SPEAKER_00: 26:54

Yeah, so well, we'll explain how it went down first and then how it gets to being called trafficking. So yeah, my dad came down to Mexico, and on top of that, he's being really nice.

SPEAKER_02: 27:05

And I'm like, What's going on here?

SPEAKER_00: 27:08

Like, you know, it took me to the bar. I remember I'm like 14, right? Buying me drinks, like I'm just like, this is just weird. But I was like, whatever, I'll just go along with it. And then when we were flying home, they were like, oh, there's this like big festival in this town. Like, let's do a layover there and get a hotel and spend the night, and everyone's gonna dance through the streets and all this stuff. And I was just, I was just like had my probably like a discman back then or whatever it was, you know, music on, ignoring them. I'm like, whatever, I'll just stay in the hotel. You guys do your thing. So we landed. I didn't even know, I wasn't even paying attention, I didn't even know what city we were in. And um, we were picked up in this van and we were driving, and then we I'm just not paying attention. I'm listening to my music. It was really late at night, it was like midnight, I think. Um, we get to this like big long wall in these gates, they're like, oh, I think this is the hotel, and again, I'm just not even paying attention, just doing my thing. And we drive in, and my parents get out, and I'm just not even looking around, and all of a sudden, these like two huge guys get in, and they're like, Hey, you're here now, you need to come with us. You're not going home. And I was like, What? I like look up and I'm like, what's going on? And they're like, We can do this the easy way, or we can do this the hard way, but you're coming with us. I'm like, fuck you, it's gonna be the hard way. Like I was kicking and fucking punching and biting and screaming. They dragged me out. I'm like, you're gonna be here till you're 18. Like, you're stuck here now. And uh they were dragging me out of this van, and I just remember like looking over and seeing my parents. I'm like, I fucking hate you, like fuck you, like screaming at them, like no idea where I am, don't know what city I'm in, don't like nothing. It's middle of the night. Um they set this all up. There was no surgery. So talk about chest issues and abandonment issues. Um wait, yeah. Wait.

SPEAKER_04: 29:11

Your mom lies to you, says she's going into a surgery. She might die. Might die, wants to see you, flies you to Mexico, then flies your dad in to trap you, to take you to what? Where do they take you?

SPEAKER_00: 29:22

Yes, exactly. So it's called the real name for these is called the WASP programs, WWASP, Worldwide Association of Specialty Programs. Um they kind of put them out as these like a behavioral modification program for juvenile delinquents type thing. But really it was a cult. Um so I never realized that actually. Like I just kind of was like, oh yeah, it was this thing for fucked up kids. Yeah. Um it was run by Mormons, so it was all shocker.

SPEAKER_04: 29:56

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, every time. With the Mormons, bro. Every time I'm sorry, but it's run by Mormons.

SPEAKER_00: 30:05

Uh they're all over the US, right? So um they were kind of dotted all around. And then there was one at when I went, there was one in Mexico and Ensenadas, so just passed Tijuana, which is the one where I went to.

SPEAKER_04: 30:16

So that's where you figured out. How long did it take you to figure out you were in Ensonadas?

SPEAKER_00: 30:20

Um, well, it was the next day. Okay. So, and then there was one in Jamaica and one in Costa Rica.

SPEAKER_04: 30:26

None in Utah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:27

Most people, there was definitely one in Utah. Okay. Yeah. Um, most people just went to the ones in the U.S. And then if you really fucked up there or were defiant or running away or whatever, then they'd ship you to Mexico. Well, my parents were like, we shouldn't fucking ship her to Mexico to start with. Um the worst of the worst. Like, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 30:44

What kind of kids are in there?

SPEAKER_00: 30:46

Oh, God, there is such a mix. I mean, there were like girls that had been jumped into gangs or tricked out into prostitution at age like 11, 12. And then there was like a Mormon girl that her parents found a little note she'd written to her friend that they were gonna sip beside her on the weekend, and they sent her down there. So it was a big mix. Oh my god. Um, they were all Americans. I was the first and only Canadian there. Um and so it Netflix just came out on a documentary about where I was last year, and it was the number one watch show on Netflix for like three months, and it's called the program Cons, Cults, and Kidnapping. They kidnap the kids and send them to Yeah. Yeah, so that's where I was. Yeah. Uh and it's based on the one in Utah, is the one that it's all filmed in and girls that route the one in Utah. And one of the girls there had come from Mexico. So eventually the Federales raided the one that I was in after I got out and shut it down. If the Federales are raiding shit, they raided it and shut it down and put all the kids in buses and dropped them all off at the border because they were all American. So it got shut down by the Mexican Federale. How long were you there? From 14 to 17.

SPEAKER_04: 31:57

Damn. So you how'd you get out early?

SPEAKER_00: 32:00

Um, so they do. I'd been having these like health issues and stuff, and my parents were kind of like, what is going on here? Like they're not taking care of their kids. Yeah, now they care. Um, and you have to go through levels, and once you get to certain levels, you get certain privileges. Like you get fo you there's no phone calls, no nothing to home at all for the first longest time you're there. And once you get up to certain things, then you can have like a home visit. So you have to get to go home, and then your parents send you back. And this happens constantly.

SPEAKER_04: 32:29

How traumatic is this? This is traumatizing on children.

SPEAKER_00: 32:34

So I on a home visit, I managed to convince them to not send me back. But I was 17, I would have aged out at 18, anyways. Um, but so in yeah, so in that documentary, they break it all down and who was actually running it, where the money was going, and they break it all down that it's child trafficking. It's like it's moving children around for profit, right? So they're trafficking children through all these programs for all this profit, and they're not helping them. There's no help. Like if she watched it, she knows. Yeah. Um so what's a day in and day out like there? Yeah, so the part that was really fucked up about it is uh it was cult. It was a cult, and they did these brainwashing seminars that we had to do every week the whole time we were there. Like what? Um like they used techniques that like Hitler had used when he was doing experiments brainwashing Jews and stuff, like actual brainwashing techniques. And so they were doing this to us, all these children, constantly the whole time we were there, and it's to like break you down to then try to build you back up into what they are trying to make you to be.

SPEAKER_04: 33:41

Are they pushing the LDS religion on you guys or no?

SPEAKER_00: 33:45

No, it wasn't about religion. Okay. Um, but it was yeah, just like it was messed up. So like getting out of there, and like those are such formative years of your life, like 14 to 17. Like you're growing, your brain's growing, you're learning things, yeah. And so to just be like in this brainwashed cult the whole time, like that fucked me up. Like I was fucked up in the head after that for a really long time.

SPEAKER_04: 34:11

Did you start to was there ever a point where you were like, okay, this is a cult, or was it working on you?

unknown: 34:17

No.

SPEAKER_00: 34:19

I fought it the whole way through.

SPEAKER_04: 34:20

For sure.

SPEAKER_00: 34:21

The whole way through. I like played nice and like jumped through the hoops, but I was never believing, like I was never drinking the Kool-Aid.

SPEAKER_04: 34:29

Were you watching other kids really?

SPEAKER_00: 34:32

Oh yeah. But I just knew. So again, this is where like being super smart came into play. I ended up so there's six levels. The first three are called lower levels, where you just have no privileges at all. So you're also like we just have nothing. Like you have no personal belongings, no nothing. You're not allowed to shave, not allowed to pluck your eyebrow, like just nothing, you know? Um, and then you weren't allowed to speak because it's we're in Mexico, so there's no freedom of speech, no this. So you weren't allowed to speak at all, ever. You had to get permission to open your mouth and talk. These young children are oh my. So I for the first three levels, yeah, you can't talk.

SPEAKER_04: 35:12

How long would the last three levels last?

SPEAKER_00: 35:14

It takes most people like a year, year and a half, to get to like upper levels. I did it in three months. Because I was just like, I'm gonna play this game with that that brain of mine, right?

SPEAKER_03: 35:25

Smart.

SPEAKER_00: 35:26

Um, but yeah, so when you we could get it's funny, my parents always say, She went to boarding school. There's not a single teacher there. There was no school. We had correspondence, like they would just send books and you just sit there and read and write the test and send the to mail the test in. Like I had to teach myself. All my whole high school I was self-taught there through these little correspondence books. There's no teachers there. My God. And they're like, You were in boarding school in Mexico on the beach, is what they tell everyone.

SPEAKER_04: 35:55

This is such a boomer thing.

SPEAKER_00: 35:57

There was no beach, like we were like high walls in this like locked-in facility.

SPEAKER_04: 36:02

Cactus and scorpions everywhere.

SPEAKER_00: 36:08

How was the living conditions? Um I remember like seeing a girl, like they made these. I mean, the food was, I don't even know what they were feeding us half the time, just like slop, right? And they would give us these big portions, and I and like it was hard to eat it because it was disgusting. I remember seeing a girl like puke up her food on her plate, and then they made her eat all her puke, right? Like that's the kind of place that it was.

SPEAKER_04: 36:32

Um yeah, that was all I'm picturing right now is Nacho Libre as you scooping the slop in like the little Catholic school. Have you seen this movie?

SPEAKER_00: 36:43

Like, that's what Yeah, it was a really it was messed up. Oh my and then on top of that, like yeah, the the abuse was just rampant.

SPEAKER_04: 36:53

Abuse how?

SPEAKER_00: 36:54

Um, physical abuse, verbal abuse, from other kids there or from the staff? From the staff.

SPEAKER_04: 36:59

Really?

SPEAKER_00: 37:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 37:00

Um were they taking sexual advantage of of girls there? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Did that I don't mind you don't have to really.

SPEAKER_03: 37:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 37:10

Yeah. So that was one of the health things that came up. I ended up getting an STI when I was there. And then they they have to take me to the gyno and give me whatever pills to get rid of it. And my parents are like, you know, what the fuck? Like, you know, how does that happen? And you don't, everything's monitored. So you can only write letters home and they read them before they go out. So you can't say anything. Once you get to upper levels, you get phone calls, but you're there and your caseworkers there on the phone. So if you even try to say anything, they shut it down. So I just had to be like, I don't know, maybe from sitting on a toilet seat. And it's like, how stupid as a parent do you have to be to even fall for that, first of all?

SPEAKER_04: 37:48

Oh my God. You these poor kids. Yeah. How many of the staff are involved in what's going on?

SPEAKER_00: 37:56

I don't know, to be honest. Yeah. So the way, so the living conditions. There was like, you know, those portables that they would have back in school back in the day. I don't know if you guys had that. Like when the school doesn't have enough classrooms, they put those like portables outside and those are classrooms.

SPEAKER_04: 38:13

Okay, almost like a con X box, but converted in a way. Yeah. Or like a little little trailer. Yeah, like a trailer.

SPEAKER_00: 38:19

Yeah. So that's what we had. And then um, yeah, you just walk in, it was like a really tiny hallway and just bunk beds on both sides, and then a bathroom at the end. And so that was like where we lived. So when I um yeah, so when I first got there, and remember it's like middle of the night. So they just take me and then they just take me into this room, and there's just all these bunk beds on either side, and they're like, That's your bed, go to sleep, roll call with me in the morning. And I'm just like, I don't know where I am. And so these girls are like looking at me and I'm asking them, I'm like, Where am I? Like, what is this place? And they're all like won't speak because you're not allowed to talk. And if you speak, you get shit, you drop all your levels down, you have to start the program all over again. Oh my gosh, you're just freaky. And I don't know what's going on. I'm trying to ask these other kids, where am I? What is this? Like, nothing. No one would say anything.

SPEAKER_04: 39:15

Um Have you ever sat your parents down and told them what happened there?

SPEAKER_00: 39:20

I've tried, they don't want to hear it. And then the documentary came out, and I said, Are you gonna watch it? They're like, Nope. Because they just don't want to admit. And then after me fighting them on it, finally one day they were like, Yeah, we watched it. I don't really believe that they did though.

SPEAKER_03: 39:34

Because if they did, they would know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 39:36

They but they know, they just don't want to admit it, you know. So that was a thing recently this year, sitting down with my dad, being like, This place was fucked up, you know? And he was just like, I would do it again.

SPEAKER_03: 39:48

That's kind of cut deep though.

SPEAKER_00: 39:50

Yeah, I was like, fuck you, you would do it again. Like I was sexually abused, mentally abused, all these things happened there. And he looked at me dead and he goes, Well, I didn't know that happened. I'm like, Yes, you did. That's what was the health shit. Why I fucking came home because I got an STI, remember? He's like, I don't remember that. I'm just like, Okay, sure, dad.

SPEAKER_04: 40:10

Oh my god, that's heart-wrenching. Because especially being a girl, Dad, and just how crucial those years were.

SPEAKER_00: 40:18

So once you got out of there, unless there's more you want to talk about there, I don't I mean, I could go on for hours about the shit went on there, but it's watch the documentary, it's out there. Yeah, and whatever you see in the documentary, it was worse where I was because that one was in Utah and I was in Mexico. So yeah. But it's out there, anyone can see it, anyone can watch it. What was it called? Uh it's called the program Cons, Cults, and Kidnapping.

SPEAKER_04: 40:41

Yeah. Oh my god. And you were smacked dab in the center of it. Yeah. In Mexico, out of all places.

SPEAKER_02: 40:48

In Mexico. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 40:50

That's terrifying. I couldn't even imagine. I could not imagine. So now that you're 17, you convince your parents to not send you back. Where did it go from there?

SPEAKER_00: 41:00

Um, yeah. So I was already finished my high school. Like I got my diploma at 16 when I was in the program, just doing everything by like also super fast. I think I did grade 10, 11, and 12 in like 11 months or 10 months or something. Um, so I enrolled in college, got a job, was working, um trying to figure out life. But I obviously had some like trauma issues, yeah. For sure. Um was that affecting your life? I didn't think so. Okay. It's only been probably in the last like five years that I've been able to realize why I was the way I was when I was younger. Absolutely. That this really did mess me up. I would just always, you know, thought that's just how I am. Like I didn't realize I didn't put the connection. Um, and then that was when I met my son's dad. So started dating him at 17, which was just another roller coaster of abuse. Um, but that's the thing. So when you've gone through this kind of abuse with your parents, then you go through even more abuse at this program. It's like that's all you know. So I spent so much of my life just finding people like that then in my life, and I because I didn't know any better, which now I can recognize and make different choices. But so yeah, that was a very tumultuous relationship. Oh, so very toxic. He was just super, super abusive. Yeah. Um, but he was the love of my life, you know, young and dumb, my first love. So yeah, we um we when I found out I was pregnant, actually, we had just broken up the week before, he went back to jail. And then I find out I'm pregnant and like we're not even together. He's in jail. I'm like, oh god, like what now?

SPEAKER_04: 42:52

Uh you're 19 at this point. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 42:54

19. And uh yeah, so I like told him and he was like, no, like we have to do this. Like, I I want him, let's make it work. Blah blah blah. Yeah, I'll I'll change everything. I'm like, okay. So he gets out, we get back together, get a place, the whole thing, go to birthing classes, he was super involved, everything, you know, everything was going great. I go into labor. My son's born on my birthday. Oh, that's it. Same birthday, 20th birthday, just after midnight. Um, I deliver my son an hour later. We got engaged. So an hour later, my fiance's like, Oh, I'm just gonna go get some water and he just never came back. So I'm my 20th birthday, I'm in the hospital at like two in the morning, holding my newborn baby. I'm engaged, and I'm like, where is he? And I'm like calling him, and he's just giving me the fuck off button.

SPEAKER_02: 43:56

And I'm just like, Are you fucking kidding me?

SPEAKER_04: 43:58

Did you know deep down? I knew instantly, yeah. Was he a user? Did he use was he on drugs?

SPEAKER_00: 44:03

He didn't. I was, but he wasn't.

SPEAKER_04: 44:05

What were you on?

unknown: 44:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:07

Well, at the time I was pregnant, but I wasn't, but I was smoking meth when I got pregnant and crack and doing lots of cocaine. I was on drugs heavy for a long time after being in that program. 100%.

SPEAKER_04: 44:21

I'm not justifying it, but yeah, you've been abandoned by your parents, you got in a child trafficking cult in Mexico. It only makes sense that you're gonna find out.

SPEAKER_00: 44:32

I ended up not heroin for about a decade. Yeah. I know. Surprise, shocker. That's when people don't. When I was like hunting all over the world and filming at that documentary hunting on Netflix, I was rocked on heroin the whole time. Like I like watch this documentary that's it's not on Netflix anymore, but it was, and I'm like sitting on my bear rug at my place in Croatia, and I'm like watching it, and I'm like, how did nobody know? Because I was a high functioning addict, right? I've always been successful, I've always been high functioning. Like I was rocked the whole time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 45:04

Damn, you were lucky to be alive. I know I am, yeah. And to have an incredible relationship with your son.

SPEAKER_00: 45:11

I'm I'm like just I know that's the one the one thing that and I've always been open about it. I don't hide it, I share it all the time. But most people just see my life now and they just never realize like, or even what my life was then, and they just never realized what I was battling.

SPEAKER_04: 45:26

Yeah. Every statistic to get to the point where you are now. Good for you. Yeah. Thank you. How hard was it coming off heroin being a high functioning heroin addict?

SPEAKER_00: 45:35

So again, here's my brain. I'm too smart for my own good. I hacked the system. I found out how to use for however long months on end, years, whatever. And then if I needed to get off of it for some reason, especially with the traveling hunting, right? So I would have to like find ways to smuggle heroin like with me onto a plane. I'd like to take like brown eyeshadow and like empty it out and pack the heroin in so it looked like, and just hope dogs wouldn't smell it. And I was like, this is getting really dangerous. I was like, I need to be able to stop so I can go do a hunt, travel, whatever, and then come home and start again. So I started like researching and I was like, okay, it's suboxone, right? It's like a methadone if it's a pill form. And I was like, well, the half-life of Suboxone is only so many days, and the half-life of heroin is only so many days. So I was like, okay, I would stop doing heroin that day, pick up off the street a bunch of suboxone pills. Day one, I would take like 12 pills so I wouldn't get sick from the heroin. Day two, I'd take six pills. Day three, I'd take three, and then by then the half like the heroin's worked through your system, so you're not going to get down sick anymore. And you haven't been on the suboxone long enough to get withdrawals from stopping that. Oh my. And then I just be like, now I have no withdrawals and I can go on this trip and not need heroin to be because you need it to function. Like your body needs it to feel normal, or you're sick, sick, sick. And I like, I there's my brain. I'd hacked the system, and then I could just pick it up and stop it and pick it up whenever I wanted.

SPEAKER_03: 47:09

You are fascinating.

SPEAKER_00: 47:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 47:14

Okay, so we're right now.

SPEAKER_04: 47:16

Yeah, I don't even like I I love this because this is this is reality. I mean, this is there's the thing I love about this is there's so many people that have gone through this and are going through this. And so to hear this and to see your success and overcoming and just battling this, this is this is wild.

SPEAKER_00: 47:36

And so I only again recently realized why I did so many drugs and why I was just there was not a day that I wasn't on drugs from you know, 17 to like 30. And it was I didn't realize I was just like, oh, I just like to get back to I'm not an addict, I just like to have fun, oh I just like to party. I never, you know, because it was just everything. Whatever was there, I would do, you know, like it didn't matter. Like I said, meth, crack, heroin, anything. I didn't dis discern or just you never had the the little in the back you're head like this is heroin. I probably should I have fun. Really? Yeah. It wasn't until later in life that I realized I was so fucked up from going to this to Mexico program. Um, especially with the brainwashing and stuff they do there and what that did to me mentally and internally and just what I was battling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 48:25

It what's really sad is that let's say you didn't your path went left instead of right. People would just look at she's just a junkie. Oh, she she lost everything. She chose drugs over her kids, she chose drugs over her career, whatever. Nobody ever takes the time to unpack what got you there. What got you there. I mean, granted, there's a lot of really good people that just one day they try something and boom, they're they're sucked in. But I feel the majority, especially people that are battling horrible drug addictions, there's a lot that has led to that point. And I mean, here you are doing this on your own.

SPEAKER_00: 48:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 49:02

That is terrifying.

SPEAKER_00: 49:03

Yeah. But uh, so the big I mean, the end of all of it, I guess, for me, was because like back then you could do drugs and no one was really dying, right? Until fentanyl came out and started killing everyone. And I hit the deck twice. Um fentanyl? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 49:24

Explain that.

SPEAKER_04: 49:26

Um what's fentanyl feel like?

SPEAKER_00: 49:29

It's the same as heroin, it's just stronger.

SPEAKER_04: 49:31

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 49:32

And I didn't I wasn't intentionally doing fentanyl. I had uh I was living in Croatia.

SPEAKER_03: 49:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 49:38

And I can't remember if it was when I had just moved back to Canada or I was visiting. It was one of the two. I don't know. Um and I picked up heroin or what I thought was heroin. And yeah. Overdosed. And I just remember like afterwards, like coming to and just being like, I like I have a son, like I was, you know, raising my son. Me and him were super close. Again, I was a high functioning addict. Nobody knew I was on drugs. I wasn't like, you know, down note, not I was making money, building a business, like raising a kid on my own, doing all this stuff while I was high all the time doing it. Um, and yeah, that was just like the wake-up call that I needed. I was like, holy fuck, like fentanyl is killing everyone. I went to 12 funerals in one year. A friend's dying from fentanyl. And I was just like, I can't keep doing this. Like, my kid's gonna, he already doesn't have a dad. Like, can't leave him without a mom. And I just never did it again. Ever. And never wanted to. Like that's the craziness. This is why when people are like, oh, addiction's a disease, it's with you forever. I'm like, you're just fucking weak. Like, get your mind stronger because I stopped and I've never thought about it since. I can be around it, I could nothing. It's just like you never have you never get the itch. Never, never once. Ever.

SPEAKER_03: 50:54

That's great.

SPEAKER_00: 50:56

Like, you know, if you're strong enough in the head, you can do it was the same like when I quit smoking. You know, I smoked for 20 something years, and one day I went to light a cigarette and my son started crying, and I'm like, what's wrong? Like, why are you crying? And he's like, You're gonna get cancer, and because you smoke, and I'm gonna have to come visit you in the hospital and take care of you. And I was like, I threw the pack out the window and never lit another cigarette again since, you know, mind over matter. So I'm f I'm with it 100%.

SPEAKER_04: 51:21

I can't speak. I I'm I'm the opposite mind. Like, I'm yeah, I know who I am as a person. And so if I like something, so I've but I don't have an uh like an obsessive personality. That my brother had that trait. He would obsess and get hooked. And for me, I could do everything one time, like, no, I'm good. Yeah, like net I've net so I can't speak from any experience, but yeah, I've I have some buddies that they battle some addictions and then they would just walk cold turkey from shit.

SPEAKER_00: 51:48

And I'm like, bro, like no, and some people will harp on me for saying that, like, you know, just fucking stop. It's not that hard, but I can say that because I've done it, you know, and I do think it's it's just how mentally strong you are. And the people that keep like relapsing or saying, like, yeah, it's a disease and this and that. Well, first of all, by saying that to yourself, you're creating that, you're downplaying it, right? Like you're telling yourself you'll always battle it. You're telling yourself it's always gonna be there. Well, then it is, right? Like self-talk, right? It's limiting self self-limiting beliefs and all that stuff. Um hundred percent.

SPEAKER_04: 52:24

I have a uh we know a guy, um, he was a hardcore heroin addict, hardcore. Finds out he got a chick pregnant and had a son. Didn't even know he just finds out he had a son. Did he had his brother tie him up in a basement or handcuff him to a pipe? To shake it out. And he's like, Don't do not uncuff me till I'm broke. And he it's the worst, that sickness. Like is so when you officially withdrew off of everything, did I mean at some point you you you say you broke the code and took the pill I wouldn't get sick, but before that, I before I figured that out, I would get sick, yeah. And it's horrible. The worst. That's what draws people back, I feel like, is how much pain they're in.

SPEAKER_00: 53:11

Like, literally, some days.

unknown: 53:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 53:15

You think that would be scary enough that once you kicked it, you'd be like, I am never doing that again. But it's it's crazy how the mind will just you need it. That your your willingness to like want that again. To go through that again, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 53:30

Was when I hacking the system and figuring out I could do the suboxone and go back and forth, because then there was no reason to come off. To stop, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04: 53:38

Until you took some fentanyl on it, got given some fentanyl. That that shit's scary.

SPEAKER_00: 53:43

Yeah. I'm lucky to be alive.

SPEAKER_04: 53:45

You did you overdosed twice on it?

SPEAKER_00: 53:47

Twice, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 53:51

I can't even believe you're sitting here.

SPEAKER_00: 53:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 53:55

We've had some angels guarding your ass for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 53:57

I think so. Yeah. The amount of times I should have died in my life, I tell you.

SPEAKER_04: 54:03

I got my I got my list. Yeah, I feel yeah. My wife is like, I've watched you use nine of your lives. I don't know what you used prior to me. She's like, you're done with everything. I'm like, all right, yeah, valid point.

SPEAKER_00: 54:16

I know. And then especially the way I live my life now, too. Like the chaos, the yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 54:23

But I do you feel now, and I don't mean this in any negative way, but with your travels and constantly being gone, do you ever feel like you're just trying to get away or just keep your mind busy and distracted elsewhere? Or are you just something that you love? I mean, do you ever something I love. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 54:40

Especially the living with tribes. So that was actually when I was in Mexico. I had written an essay, I think just for myself, um, when I was 15 about how I wanted to travel the world and live with tribes one day. And I was like locked in this place, just dreaming of the life that I could maybe have if I ever get out of here. And I that was something I wanted to do. And I had written this whole like little business plan on how I was gonna do it. I was gonna like pitch to National Geographic. Um, like this was before Netflix and yeah, internet and Google, like all that stuff didn't exist, no social media, whatever. So I was like, oh, I'll pitch to National Geographic that I'm gonna travel and like learn the all their different dances or whatever they do, whatever I could think to get them to fund it. And I just had this whole dream at 15 and well now I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_04: 55:28

So what if you don't want me asking, what career did you build to be able to live this lifestyle that you do?

SPEAKER_00: 55:35

Yeah, so shocker to a lot of people, I own a cleaning company.

SPEAKER_04: 55:39

Really?

SPEAKER_00: 55:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 55:41

How large is this cleaning company?

SPEAKER_00: 55:42

Pretty big. So I have a commercial division, a construct post-construction division, and residential division. And the post-construction is like just m prints money.

SPEAKER_04: 55:52

So you're coming up and cleaning up after construction sites?

SPEAKER_00: 55:54

Yeah, I do um like when it's done, not during the construction. And mostly it's like towers, like apartment buildings, condo buildings, um, you know, towers. I put two girls in there for two months and charge a hundred grand to do the building and I mean do the math. There's like no overhead. It's a phenomenal business to be in.

SPEAKER_03: 56:16

It just prints money for you, mailbox money.

SPEAKER_00: 56:18

And I've got a really good team on the ground at home that I trust that um like run the cruise so I can be gone traveling and doing my thing. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah, good for you. I'll never forget when I sat, I was like, I'm gonna start a cleaning company. Everyone's like, You're gonna what? Like, and in my first year, I doubled my income that I'd ever made before that. And I started by cleaning houses myself. So I'm going in, scrubbing people's toilets, you know, picking up their husband's pubes out of the shower, like whatever I had to do to build up the clientele until I had enough that I could hire another girl to help, and then another and another, and just build it up to what it is now. Good for you. Yeah, thank you. And here you are. Everyone's like, they see my life, and they're like, what is she doing? Like, what's it's got to be some elaborate thing? I'm like, business doesn't have to be that complicated. You just find something that everybody needs with low overhead that's easy to run. Cleaning, everybody needs cleaning.

SPEAKER_03: 57:17

No shit.

SPEAKER_00: 57:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 57:19

Genius.

SPEAKER_04: 57:20

Yeah. I've asked, I've asked, I've asked around, and there I everybody's like, I don't know, or think she's in real estate.

SPEAKER_00: 57:27

Like I do, like, yeah, now that I've I've invested in real estate about rentals and you know, some other things, stocks and stuff, but that's my main income.

SPEAKER_04: 57:35

Yeah, good, good for you. So that has built this ability to be able to travel the world. Yeah, okay. Let's get into world travels because that's now that we've unpacked our childhood trauma. Yeah, which is always healthy to do. Who would have thought wild chaos would be a freaking therapy show? World travels. Which you have been to a lot of countries, and I I don't know if I have asked you in conversation, but are you ever terrified of just traveling by yourself in these foreign countries?

SPEAKER_00: 58:16

No. No. The thought of bringing someone with me is a little bit terrifying. Why is that to be honest? Just because um I would now have to like change what I'm doing because someone else is there, you know. Okay. Maybe like they don't want to hike this volcano tomorrow or go to the you know what I mean? I'd now have to like accommodate someone else. Yeah, especially because I am so well traveled and I plan everything, it would be me accommodating them and planning the things for them. And I just love to do me and just wake up every day doing exactly what I want to do on that day and the adventure I want to go on, which nobody else wants to go on. I've tried, like, you know, to my friends, like, yeah, I'm gonna go on this trip and I'm gonna do this or that, like, you want to come and everyone's like, No, I don't want to fucking do that. Like, I want to go sit in an all-inclusive beach and drink margaritas all day, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 59:08

Yeah, I probably feel it would be a hard pitch to your friends to be like, hey, we're gonna go in the Amazon, we're gonna blow dart monkeys, we're gonna cook them in on a fire, and that's gonna be dinner every night.

SPEAKER_00: 59:18

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 59:18

I I would want a hunter personally. That's like how we are as a family, like, you guys want to do some crazy shit and we just go try to figure it out.

SPEAKER_00: 59:26

And not just that. So even that trip, like I did that week with that tribe, yeah, but I was in South America for three and a half months. And I think in that three and a half months, I only had two rest days where I didn't have any kind of excursion or adventure or hike or something planned that I could just rest. And so I would just take my travel days as my rest days, like when I'm going between from this place to this place and I have a 10 hour bus ride or whatever. That's the only rest that I got. And then the whole time it's like going to this volcano, going to this geyser. Go into this, whatever, every single day for three and a half months. Like no chill. Yeah. And people just don't want to travel like that, you know? They burn out. Yeah, I don't burn out.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:11

I can probably see that for sure. So let's talk Amazon. What is what's it like being a woman in the Amazon rainforest living with a tribe?

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:24

Um, I don't think being a woman really played into it much for me. At first, maybe like, you know, the tribes were just kind of looking like, oh yeah, and I was, you know, they kind of like so every time I live with a tribe, there's a always a different way I managed to get in there, right? I always have to organize it somehow.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:44

I went to South America knowing I wanted to go live with a tribe in the Amazon. I didn't know what country or which tribe. It was just like I'll figure it out while I'm down there. I really wanted to go to one in Venezuela, but I couldn't find anyone to take me in because of the political unrest there right now. So how I ended up finding this specific tribe, I was flying. So I went to Peru, did an ayahuasca retreat in the Amazon.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:10

I want to touch on that. Well, look, don't let me forget that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:13

And then so when I was like planning the trip, I'm like, okay, well, after that, I'm probably gonna need some kind of like decompression, but I can't just sit around and do nothing. So I had booked the Galapagos Islands right after Peru. I want to get it. And oh, that was also a childhood dream. Okay. Um I had to fly into Quito, um, which is the main city in Ecuador, have a layover, and then go to the Galapagos Islands, which is in Ecuador. So I had just hired, I had one night there. So I was like, okay, I hired this tour guide just to do like a city tour to check out all the old history stuff and whatever for the day. So I was talking to him and I'm like, yeah, I really want to go stay with tribes. Like, this is what I've been trying to do. And he's like, Oh, I know a guy that takes people to the Wiarani tribe in Ecuador. So that was how I managed to get that in.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:03

So while you're on your travels, you're not, do you have it all planned out, or are you just like, hey, I'm gonna get to this point, I'm gonna figure it out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:10

And every morning I just wake up, what city do I want to go to sleep in tonight? Or what country do I want to sleep in tonight? I just like That's incredible. I just go, I'm like, hey, Airbnb checkouts 10 o'clock, so eight o'clock, I'm just like, okay, where can I go from here? What can I go do over there? What crazy fun stuff is there? And I just like figure it out as I go.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:31

So you you find a guy that's gonna get you contact to get bring you into the forest to live with this tribe.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:38

Yeah, so and I planned to just do that later. So I was like, okay, I'll come back to Ecuador later. I still didn't even have a date or anything, but at least I had a contact.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:47

So then I go to the Galapagos. I'm like swimming with penguins and sharks and all that stuff, and then went on to hike all through Patagonia, Bolivia, Brazil, every Colombia. And then at the very end, I arranged, okay, and I'm gonna go back to Ecuador. But that was how, and this is like, I don't know who this person is, I don't know who's on the other end of the line. I'm just trusting I'm gonna show up, jump in their little canoe, and I'm not be chopped up somewhere in the middle of the Amazon. Yeah, just like full blind faith, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:16

This is this is like where my mind is watching you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:19

I'm like, I and as you're explaining this, yeah, you could just whoop and gone and nobody no one would know either because I move so much, yeah, and no one knows where I am. My parents don't even know, like they don't even know what country I'm in half the time. My family doesn't know, my friends don't know. I'm I'm only like three days this country, three days that country. I'm just so all over the place. It's like I would go missing, and it would be a long time before anyone even one realized I'm missing because I go out of service, right? Because I'm with tribes, there's no phone service. And then two, like, no one would even know where to start looking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:53

No, no clue. That doesn't ever just no good.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:57

Shouldn't I mean try and fucking take me? Like, I dare you and see what's gonna happen. Yeah, you know, valid. I also think, like, say, human traffickers that are kidnapping women to sell them wherever in these countries, I also think they look at me and they're like, this one's trouble. Like, I don't want the headache. Like, they go for meek, quiet looking girls that they know they can control, that they know, you know what I mean? I'm like fully blasted in tattoos, I'm just confident, I'm doing my thing. Like, I don't think human traffickers look at me as like this is gonna be an easy one. Like, you know what I mean? So I was like, I feel pretty. There's other things that could go wrong, but stuff like that. I'm like, eh. So you they don't want this headache.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:46

I I could see that point. Yeah, 100%. I mean, they see a lot of these, even this these guys that are looking for kids, they always look for a role model and how strong the father figure is and who they are. And I'm sure that translates to a woman like she's gonna put up a fight on this one. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:02

Yeah. So then coming to going to this tribe in the Amazon, um, I ended up hiring that guy that gave me the contact to then come with me to translate.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:15

What if you don't want to be asking, what's it cost to just randomly hire somebody on the spot to translate?

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:21

It's been different in every country. So this one was it was like under two grand for the whole this is the whole thing, like going to the tribe, the translator, the everything. It was like, yeah. I mean, in Indonesia, it was my favorite tribe, one of my favorites for sure that I've stayed with was like 800 bucks, you know. So, and then I've also spent like 10 grand to go to a tribe. So it just totally depends. All right, totally depends. Um, so he was like asking, like, what do you like want to do? You know, because like you're just going to go live with them and figure out whatever. And I'm like, he's like, Do you want to go with the woman and plant their stuff and see what they do? I'm like, I do. I was like, but I really want to like hunt and fish and be with the guys, and that's what I'm into. So when we got there, he was kind of saying that to them, and they're like, the tribes guys are looking at me. And a lot of tribes, women are not allowed to hunt. I've had this happen almost every time. So I'll just kind of like bust out my phone. And I always have this big power bank so I can recharge it because there's no power where you are, and I use it for photos and stuff, and just start showing them all my hunting pictures. And next thing you know, the guys, they're all just like, let's go! Like, yes, they're like, This is awesome. So that's how that one played out. Um, they're just like, fuck yeah, like let's bring this chick out. And um, oh, that one, they had this old relic of a shotgun. I don't even know where this thing came from. It had like duct tape around it. It was like, and they had this like bag of shells that were all rusted out, and like it was terrible. And I think they never use it. Who knows how long they've had this thing sitting in a bin or where they even got it from? But they're like, oh, you can use a gun. Here, we'll bring this too, so like you we can get more monkeys or whatever. This thing misfired on me like six times literally six times. And then finally, one shot went off. I shot a monkey, it falls down, and they're like, shoot another one. I shoot nothing. Like it was, yeah, it was brutal. Um, so then they passed me the servitana, which is the blow dart.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:22

Um, it's like god, like 15 feet long, this big long thing. So you can't like hold it straight.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:32

So we had gotten under the straight up. Yeah, so we got underneath like a monkey that was up in a tree, and the tri the guy that's from the tribe was shooting at it, shooting at it, kept missing, whatever. And it almost got to like a fun game. They're all taking turns and stuff, and then they look at me and they're like, Do you want to try? I'm like, Okay, like, I don't know, sure. And these guys have been doing this since they were like three years old and they're missing, right? So they pass it to me, I get under, I line up, I like, I blow, and like not when they blow that you hear like a kind of sound. When I did it, nothing happened. I'm like, oh, I didn't even blow hard enough. Like the dart's still in there. And all of a sudden the guy's like, oh my god, he's like grabbing me and he's like shaking me and smiling. I guess I I hit the monkey. It was still inside the servitana. I was like, oh my god, I didn't even get the dart out, but I actually hit the thing. Um, obviously, you're not trying to like puncture it and kill it, you're just trying to scratch it. There's poison on the end. So we we dig up these roots, um mash it all up, and just kind of paint the tips with like a poison. So the poison is what immobilizes the animal, and then you have to get it and dispatch it. But yeah, so that was like blow darting my monkey.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:43

You blew you blow darted.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:47

Blow darted. Guess what?

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:49

A monkey in the how incredible was that experience.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:53

It was honestly like so awesome. I was just like, this is the coolest thing ever. And I'd heard about this before from Steven Ranella, yeah, had done it. And I remember him talking about it. I'm like, that's so cool. I want to do that one day, and then it just like played out, and here I am in the Amazon, blow darting a monkey. I was like, this is just the fucking coolest. Like, it's one thing to be a hunter and like, you know, rifle hunt and bow hunt and all this stuff, but to use these primitive, like and my first time and my first shot, and the guys that have been doing it their whole lives are missing.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:24

Depend on this, you know. How long did it take for the poison to kick in on the monkey?

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:28

Uh, it's pretty instant.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:30

Really?

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:31

So now this. So what happens? It gets some kind of like drunk and immobilized, right? And usually they'll fall out of the tree. Well, this monkey got stuck in the tree.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:42

And I'm like, well, what now? All of a sudden, this like guy from the tribe, like I've got videos, this is wild. He just like grabs this vine, like straight out of Tarzan, Tarzan, and just starts shimmying up into the top of the canopy. And this is like way up there. Like, these are not low trees. And I'm just like, Are you kidding me? And he just flies up there with total ease, like a monkey would itself. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, I hear the monkey like screaming at him, and he's screaming back at it, and it's just like screaming at each other. And I'm like, what is going on right now? And this guy's screaming at the monkey, and the monkey's screaming at him. I'm picturing it like jumping on him, like, I don't know what's happening up there because he's up at the top of the tree. Like, yeah, he went way past the canopy. It's like, what the fuck is like what is this life? And then all of a sudden, there comes the monkey, falls down.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:36

And then what? Okay, so now that you've got this monkey on the ground ground, okay. Yeah, you slit the throat, and now this is this is lunch or dinner?

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:43

This is dinner, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:45

Are you excited for this or are you kind of like a minute?

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:48

No, I was excited. I wanted to see like what's this about, you know, like there's nothing that I I don't think there's any animal I wouldn't try. I don't want to eat a dog, but I've had dog.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:58

I wouldn't want to eat a dog. It was horrible.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:00

Yeah, I just feel bad. But yeah, no, I was actually pretty excited. And so what was really cool too was then we went back um, you know, to the tribe and we go into this one of the head guys, like kind of house hut. Yeah. Um, and they just give it to me and they're like, Yeah, you could you process it all. And I was like, okay. So this was the weird part for me. Like, I don't think I'd ever shot an animal in my life or dispatch any animal that I didn't gut right away and skin and cool down the meat. Well, they just there's this fire, and they just throw the whole monkey right on the fire, guts it and everything. And I'm just like, what the fuck is going on here? I'm like, this is weird. But um, so we had to we were burning the fur off.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:44

Well that smelly.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:45

And it's right in the uh I don't know, I don't know, it didn't bother me. Okay, yeah. Um, so they give me this like little stick, and I've got the monkey in the fire, and you just put it for like a minute on one side and then flip it over and take the stick and like scrub it on the skin to scrape the to scrape the fur off. I've since done that in other tribes in other countries too. So I guess it's more common than yeah, but just being from North America and how we hunt, you just don't realize. And I'm just thinking the whole time, like these guts are in here, like this is yeah, this is disgusting. I'm like, well, I don't know what we're doing after this, but okay, let's get the fur off. So it's back and forth, back and forth, do that forever. Once all the fur's off, then yeah, we go outside and they hand me a machete and they're just like, chop it up. So I'm like, okay. And one of the wives came out, so it was the two of us, and yeah, we pull the guts out, warm, and like this thing's cooking. I'm just like, oh man, this is weird, but okay. And just hack it up into little pieces and then throw it all in a pot with water and throw it back on the fire and made monkey soup.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:43

How did it taste?

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:45

So the like inside meat, you know, was good. It was actually good. I was like, this is this is good. It's just like meat. The outside, the skin charred skin with hair. Well, the whole it's not charred once it's been boiled in the thing. It's like rubber, you know what I mean? Like this rubbery skin that's been boiled. I was like, I had to choke that down. And then the tail, when I ate the tail, that we just like cut up like you know, every inch, put like a cut through the tail and rub salt in it, and then just charred that right on the fire and ate that charred, and that just tasted like straight char. I was like, is there even any meat in here? Like, oh yeah. Yeah, but yeah, like some of it was really good, but that rubbery skin was fucking nasty. And I think it's a mental game too. Like, I know this is the skin, and I'm just normally I would skin an animal and then eat the meat.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:37

So it's like eating what tripe or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:40

The the I don't mind all that, even all that stuff. Like I go for fun, I get all the weird stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:46

Oh, yeah, that's how we are, but just knowing, you know, it's it's a little unsettling. What's the weirdest thing you've ever eaten on the road?

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:55

Um, so with the tribe in Indonesia, we were cutting down these trees to pull all the grub out, literally, like out of the Lion King, where they're like slimy yet satisfying, and it's the exact same bug, and it's this big gross grub, and they're all crawling around and giant pinchers and heads on them. I know. Yeah, and I'm just eating them out of this tree, and I don't want to, but like they're doing it, and so I don't want to disrespect them by like, you know what I mean? So I'm just like fucking put your big girl pants on, let's go.

unknown: 1:14:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:27

What did those taste like?

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:28

Woody honestly, they actually weren't that bad. They're pretty sweet because the trees are kind of decaying that they're in, yeah. And the trees are smell really sweet, and they just kind of tasted like that, but it's like the the mental part, and they're the pop, the yeah, like explodes in your mouth, and you can like feel the little head, and the pin is just like yeah. Um, another thing in the Amazon that was super cool.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:54

Only reason I laughed because I've eat I was that guy, and like when I traveled in the military, we were all I was the guy that ate everything, so that's the only reason I asked you. No, I yeah, that's why the head was always the weirdest because it's yeah crunchy. It's the crunchy word. Yeah, so I'm I'm with you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:11

I know. I should have just like twisted the head off or something, but I just go with whatever they're doing, which is funny because I've noticed there's things I put up with and live with and whatever when I'm out there that I would never do at home. That would if I saw a cockroach in my house at home, I'd burn the house down, you know? And then I'm out there at this tribe, literally have 50 cockroaches running over me and on my bed and everything. And I'm just like, eh, whatever. Like, I'm in the Amazon, just go to sleep.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:37

You have to, though. You have to take that mindset going into because one, it's a it's a huge disrespect to a lot of cultures if you're coming in trying to not just accept the way of their life, but then at the same time, like you're there to experience their life.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:51

And I feel like in the Amazon, like what do I think it's gonna be?

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:55

The Britz Carlton, like I think a lot of people do though, because they see the the Netflix series or you know, National Geographic, is then you go into these places and you're like, this these living conditions are horrible. Like, what were you expecting? Some of the places I've stayed. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:10

But another really fun one in the Amazon. So we're out fishing and we're fishing for catfish and piranhas.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:18

So there's tons of piranhas out there, and we're like in this kind of like lagoon. We'd gone down the river and into this lagoon where they said this is where the piranhas are. So I've got like some meat on the end of this, and it there's no fishing rods or anything, it's just like the line and you're hand bombing. And I had said previously that I wanted to catch an anaconda while I was there, because they do that all the time. So I've got the line in the water and we're catching piranhas, and all of a sudden the guy's like, There's the anaconda, get it. And I'm like, in this, like, he's like, get it. And I just jump, like, drop the line, and I just jump on this anaconda and grab it by the head in the water that I'm fishing piranhas out of. And I'm just thinking, like, there's so many things going through my head right now. I'm like, first of all, I gotta get this anaconda before it gets me. Second of all, I gotta get the fuck out of this water before the piranhas eat me. Do you have pictures of this? No. Um, no, I have pictures of me fishing the piranhas. I have pictures of me holding the anaconda after I don't have like I know I wish I had someone that would just follow me to videotape this stuff. Cause like I wish I could like look back on these things through the third eye. Um, so yeah, I caught an anaconda in the Amazon River in the lagoon of piranhas, and the guys were just kind of like oh, if there's no blood, the piranhas don't attack.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:45

But like it mentally in your head, like you know it's full of piranhas. Yeah, yeah. So that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:50

Did you get did you eat the anaconda?

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:52

No, the anacondas are very sacred.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:57

Sometimes leading the anacondas if they don't have anything else, but the anacondas, the jaguars, and the harpy eagles, through I think all the tribes in the Amazon are like the spiritual gods.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:07

Sure.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:07

Yeah. Yeah. Harpy Eagle, what a cool animal to see. Like the coolest animal I think I've ever seen. Why? It's like it's an eagle, but the head like looks like an owl almost. They're just no wonder these guys are all tripping out on ayahuasca or whatever in these bushes and seeing beings because this looks almost like a human with this headdress and this outfit on. They're just phenomenal animals. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:32

Oh, really? I'm gonna have to I I know what you're talking about, but I feel like it's been forever. When you're a large bird, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:38

Holy shit. Like, you just don't, it's not unlike anything you've seen before.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:41

Oh, I can imagine.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:42

Yeah, they're cool.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:43

Let's talk ayahuasca. I have my doubts. I have a lot of buddies that have done this. I want to do it so bad. You should. But at the same time, I feel that there's a demonic spirit side of it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:59

No, there's not. There really isn't. Like, yeah, it can show you things you don't want to see, but it's not gonna show you anything that's not real. You know what I mean? It's just you facing your own demons.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:12

Okay. Um walk me through your ceremony, the ayahuasca ceremony in the rainforest.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:18

So before this, I'll tell you, I I started to trip. I'm not a person, I'm not anxious, I do not have anxiety, clearly. You know, nothing scares me. I'm just like, you know, go do everything. And leading up to going there, I started to kind of spin out. I'm like, oh my God, what am I doing? Because everything you read about ayahuasca and learn about is it shows you traumas and this and that. So you can work through it. And I'm like, I've done the work, I have relived my traumas. I don't need to see this shit again. Why am I gonna go sign up to be back in Mexico, to be back in all these situations, like and torture myself, you know? So I started to kind of think like, fuck, like I fucked up. I shouldn't do this, I shouldn't go, blah, blah, blah. And I had also recently um gotten into breath work.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:07

So I don't know if you know much about breath work, but if you do really intense, like hour and a half, two-hour heavy breath work sessions, you actually create a DMT in your body and you have the same experience as like ayahuasca or heavy psilocybin dose. Um, and people use it with healing. Like I've been in breath work seminars where I come out and like half the people are crying and they've relived traumas and they're dealing with stuff and they use it to heal without ever taking a substance. So I had never gone to the other realm in breath work. I was still kind of like new at it. And three days before getting on the plane, I went to a breathwork session and I went. I went shot full outer body, full other realm experience. And um I had seen this like soft, it was all black, totally black. I'm like floating in space. And I saw this like kind of like pink, soft thing in the distance, and I couldn't figure out what it was. And as I got closer, I kind of sh made the shape of like a moth. But the edges were really light and just disintegrated. It wasn't hard. I didn't know what it meant when I came back into my body, but I had the most calm feeling of like all the anxiety was gone. Everything just felt right, like everything just I hate to say this, almost that feeling of that heroin gives you, like this warmth that's come over your body. Okay. Um yeah, and I was just like, okay, everything's good, everything's gonna be okay. So then I started kind of dissecting that chat GPT. What does a light pink moth mean and all this stuff?

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:42

And it broke down into this whole thing about um moths, obviously chrysalis transformation, um, the fact that the edges were soft and it was pink is like transformation doesn't have to be hard. It can be gentle, it can be soft, it can be feminine. It was this whole message that like this journey is gonna be gentle and soft and feminine and um just peaceful. Yeah. And it just took all my anxiety away. So I'm like, okay, let's go, Peru, ayahuasca, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:12

So, real quick, my question with the breath work. I've done it before, I've done it and some buddies, but I've never gone, you know, I really it was just whatever. I was super relaxed, and I mean like felt great afterward, but I never went to a different realm.

unknown: 1:22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:29

When sounds like obviously you the previous experiences, I don't know if you fight it or you just don't fall into it. When you started to feel your body go, did you know, or is it just like a snap?

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:42

I didn't. It was just it was real.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:44

So you're sitting there, you're doing the routine, and then boom.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:46

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:47

Really?

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:48

I'm sitting there, I'm breathing, I'm like listening to the room, and then all of a sudden I'm just like floating in this like black space, and I'm like, fuck, did I fall asleep? I was like, you fucking idiot, you're sleeping right now. Like, wake up, like you're in breath work. And then I got this um energy pulses going through my body. It's like this vroom vroom vroom pulsing, which I had done DMT back when I was doing drugs all the time in my 20s and had that same feeling when I did DMT and I recognized it instantly. I'm like, fuck, you're not sleeping. I'm like, oh my god, you're there, like you're going. Like you're I was like, okay, this is real. This is it. Yeah. But it was just instant. Okay. Instant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:26

So now you're ready for ayahuasca. You've done your breath work. Yeah. You're like, okay, I'm going to the rainforest. I'm going to do a legit ayahuasca trip.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:36

So I did a lot of research, me and my brain, uh, ahead of time, on even finding the right facility. Because of course, you go somewhere like South America, a lot of them are just trying to make a buck off tourists, right? And you have to be careful with things like ayahuasca or anything that's bringing up inner work because you don't want to go somewhere that cracks you open and then doesn't help put you back together. And then you leave and you're just messed up, and you know. So I found like one of the most notoriable facilities in the world, okay. And definitely like in the top, I found the top three in Peru and picked one of those. So I've made sure it was legit and safe and everything, too, not just like, oh, whichever one's cheapest kind of thing. Um pay for what you want. And they actually have two locations. One is out by Machu Picchu, which is much easier to get to. And I was going to Machu Picchu anyways, and then the other one is way out in Iquitos in the Amazon. Um, but I wanted to go to the Amazon for that because it's also the birthplace of ayahuasca. Like ayahuasca comes from the Amazon in Peru originally, and I was with the Shipibo Shamans, which the Shipibo Shamans like discovered ayahuasca and had been using it to heal for 3,000 years. Uh, and they trained for like 20, 30 years to be a shaman. And um, so it was all super legit and safe. But yeah, the uh experience was not what I thought it was gonna be. So here I was like worried. I'm like, great, I'm gonna relive all this shit, like rehash this stuff. What's the point in any of that? Um, and mine was like the total opposite, which I I had felt guilty about because everyone else there, there was 18 of us, they were going through it. Like um, they were like oh, so just these traumas that they were um living, internal battles. Um, I mean, there was like one girl who had been sexually abused by her dad and went through that, but then it took her even further into watching through the window when her dad was a child and his dad was abusing him and actually seeing that like through the window, and you go through like generational traumas and all kinds of stuff, you know. Um, but which then kind of helped her realize I mean, there's never an excuse, but why he was doing that to her and through the healing and all that stuff. Hurt people, hurt people. So yeah, they're just and people are just screaming, crying, the purging, you know, people are puking, shitting themselves, whatever. Like my purge was like a little yawn, like that was my purge. I just like curled up in my little blanket and like melted into the floor. And ayahuasca showed me the most beautiful, like divine love I'd ever seen in my life. She was like, You've never experienced love. And she just took me into this place and wrapped me in this blanket of real, true love. And that was just so she's like, This is what you need. Like, you don't need to relive all that stuff. You've done it. This is what you need. And that was like my whole experience was just her showing me this is what's possible, this is what you're ready for because you've healed.

SPEAKER_04: 1:27:02

Um, it was like that's interesting because I, you know, I've done a lot of research. I've talked to a lot. I've talked to a my buddy flies in a shaman here, and they do, I mean, they're doing it almost like every other month now. And I've you know, we've had I've had conversations, and I was like, okay, these are my demons, X, Y, and Z. These are the traumas, X, Y, and Z, this is what I want to face. And he's like, it doesn't work like that. It doesn't work like that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:28

And you can set intentions, but they always say she shows you what you need, not what you want.

SPEAKER_04: 1:27:34

She, as in Mother Gut. Okay, or okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:37

All right. Yeah, sure. She gives you what you need, not what you want. So people come there like, there was a girl that was there that was thinking about quitting her job and moving to Costa Rica to start a business. And she's like, I just need the answer, should I do it? So people are coming with like wanting answers, but that's just not unlocking childhood drama instead. Yeah. Um, well, people know that that's gonna happen too, right? But they're also hoping through it because I was there for a week or five days, and we did four nights of ayahuasca. It wasn't just one, so we had two nights of ayahuasca, one break, and then two nights of ayahuasca. So I'd like you go through it because night one is just kind of like it's starting to work through your system. Night two, it fucking cracks you wide open, but then they use night three and four to start healing and putting you back together, right? Instead of just giving you one night of ayahuasca, all this shit comes up and they kick you out the door. Like, how does that help anyone? Right?

SPEAKER_04: 1:28:28

So does the purging, and if people listening aren't familiar with this this ceremony, I don't know how you categorize it, but when you're on it, you purge. Yeah, I I wish the only episode we've never been able to air, due to the respect of a of a guest, she got into this story. It's it's actually one of the craziest episodes I've ever recorded in my life. Like I've I've never been speechless before. And this I from the second this woman opened her mouth, I've didn't know what to say. But she talked about her purge that she regurgitated a set of testicles because she and I'm not trying to laugh about this. It's just I wish I could fucking air this episode. It was incredible. Uh but she said because she had so much childhood trauma from being sexually assaulted as a baby all the way through like her teen years, like she had a whole childhood of sexual trauma that she regurgitated a legit set of testicles that plopped out onto like the floor or bucket, however, she was explaining it. And I was sitting there like blink blink blink. I didn't even know. And then that was like my first story, or like digging into somebody that's done this. So I was I didn't even know what she was talking about. But then obviously, I've done a lot of research. I have buddies that are deep into this, and it's this I don't know how to explain it. So you never threw up, you never was like shitting um so.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:00

It's interesting at the proper way through ayahuasca with the shamans. So this is an interesting fact about ayahuasca. Up until about 15 years ago, the subject, like the person needing healing, never took ayahuasca. Only the shamans would take ayahuasca and then they sing these ikaros, these songs the whole time, and they would heal you through the ikaros. And the icaros goes into you and does all this stuff, and you would experience the same thing, relive the traumas, everything through the icaros, and that's how they healed. It's only been recently that the patients have been taking ayahuasca. I don't know. Also, yes. Um and so uh when I was there, there were six shamans in the room, and they're all singing these ikaros the whole time. Which is incredible.

SPEAKER_04: 1:30:46

And then when it comes really incredible, they are they playing flutes or anything?

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:50

They're singing, they're just the voices are singing. Which is unreal. They're each singing a completely different song from each other, not in tune at all, but somehow all together is just like it's it works, it's amazing. Um, and then at the very end, when the summon when it's over, one of the shamans will sing a closing icaros, and that's because you're very energetically open when you're under ayahuasca. And so that just kind of like is supposed to close it out and close your energy and like kind of end the experience. And the second, every night, the second he did the last note of that song, all of a sudden I'd puke. That that's when the purge would come up at the end. It was all over, closed, just one quick, like it's over. There, there it goes. It was really interesting. Interesting, really interesting.

SPEAKER_03: 1:31:39

Yeah, that's fascinating.

SPEAKER_00: 1:31:41

Um, so I remember feeling really guilty in group share the next day because everyone would share their experiences, and this person's like, I went through this, and I went there. I'm just like waiting for it to come to me to be like, oh, that was the best love I've ever felt. Like I never felt pure love other than with my son, right? It's the only person that had ever loved me with pure intention, right? Um, and so that gets to me, and I'm like sharing, I'm like feeling really guilty. And this other girl started crying. And when I was done, she's like, Thank you so much for sharing that. And I was like, What? Why? She's like, Well, because it gives me hope that I can get there one day too. And I was like, Okay, like, you know, that's good. And there was, there's some other things that came up, like I know I have this control in me that I need to try to like let go of a little bit, but I just can't because I've always had to be in control because of all these other things in my life and little things that you know that I need to work on that I learned through the ayahuasca. But um for me, overall, it was a very beautiful. I mean, even the people that were going through it at the end, they were like, that was the most beautiful week of my life, even though they went through this shit. No one was like, that was terrible, I don't want to do it again, or you know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:32:57

Would you do it again? Absolutely. Yeah. Really? You're gonna go back to the same place?

SPEAKER_00: 1:33:02

Uh, maybe. I haven't decided yet. But there's just some other stuff. So I I went to a hypnotherapist a few days ago.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:11

Here?

SPEAKER_00: 1:33:11

Uh no, before you came here. Okay. Um, and some stuff came up in there. So when I was in Peru, um, you kind of like bond with people when you're there, right? So I had these like two, the facility I was in was called Arcana. So I had my two Arcana brothers that like the three of us became like we just did everything together, ate together, shared our experience together, leaned on each other through the whole thing. Um, and one of them, he had done past life regression hypnotherapy. And another guy there had done it also, and they were talking about it. I'm like, this sounds so cool. So, this is like hypnotherapy where you then go into your past lives and you're in the body. You're not watching from a side, you're in your body in your past life, and you're like seeing these things and whatever and walking through. So, like the guy that um my friend from Marcana, like, he went all the way back to when he was a caveman and he was like, Man, I was like looking down at my hands, and there were like these big mitts, and I looked at my feet and I go to walk, and it's just like these steps, and he's like, My mind was just so empty, like there was no thoughts, there was nothing there. Um, he's like, you know, and then like something was coming, like a saber-tooth tiger, I don't know, something, and it was just like danger, move and just like move behind the rock, like no this like primitive. Yeah. And I was like, what? And then this other guy was this other. So I was like, I this is cool. Like, I'd give this a try. Um, and when I signed up to do it, so it took like three months to get in with this hypnotherapist that does it. Yeah. Um, she had said to me, she said, uh, yeah, this will be great, blah, blah, blah. Just so you know, if there's anything in this life that hasn't been worked through yet or whatever, like you'll have to work through that first to be able to get into the past lives. I'm like, oh, I've done my shit. I even ayahuasca, everything was cool. Um no.

SPEAKER_04: 1:35:10

No.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:13

So we unpacked some things. I don't know what it is yet. We couldn't figure it out, but basically at five years old, I just stopped and I can't go back any further. It's just stops.

SPEAKER_03: 1:35:22

Really?

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:35:23

Okay. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:24

Um, and I know, like I've always known there's got to be like something in there because no one doesn't have a memory before the age of 12. You know, that's another trauma response, right?

unknown: 1:35:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:32

So I'm like, I know there's something in there, but um, and it doesn't bother me or scare me. Trust me, whatever happened to me as a kid, I have been through 10 times worse since then and been able to deal with. So, like, let's just hash it out and deal with it and move on, right?

SPEAKER_04: 1:35:46

I mean, you you've all you're a very intelligent person. So you you've read or researched how the mind splits through traumatic incidents. Do you think you hit that wall where your mind do you think possibly at age five your mind split?

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:57

Or maybe a couple times. I don't know, because I can't remember before 12, right? But uh anyway, so an interesting thing on night three of the ayahuasca, um, I could I never went to the other realm. I was in the room the whole time. And the whole night I just felt this like black, squirming something going through my body, like this like wormy sickness, gut rot, kind of like just working through me the whole time. After or during what is when I was on night three of ayahuasca and through.

SPEAKER_04: 1:36:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:30

And I remember describing it as like this black, just something that wouldn't let go. And I interpreted that as my control because I kept saying, just surrender, trust the process, surrender to the ayahuasca. And then this like kind of thing was coming in, and I was like fighting it. And so I just took that as like this was your control. And the ayahuasca wasn't gonna let you go until you surrendered, but you wouldn't surrender because you're fighting it because you're always in control, and that was just kind of how, and that lasted 24 hours for me. Like this was in me for 24 hours. Like I went to night four ayahuasca 24 hours later, and I was still feeling what I thought, feeling the ayahuasca from the night before. I'm like, I'm still under the medicine, like I can't take more medicine. I was like, you know, I'm feeling this. So then the hypnotherapy, that kind of came up and it went back to five. And then she's like going to the doors to open up, and I'm supposed to open the door and walk into this life. She goes, What do you see? I'm like, nothing, it's blank. So then she goes back, goes this other process, gets me to go into this book and go, what's the story in the book? Where are you? And I go, I'm like, it's blank. And she's like, Yeah, starting to get like I'm like, I know I feel like I'm upsetting the poor hypnotherapist because I can't get anywhere. So she we go back, and uh it's me. I'm like five years old, and I'm seeing this in front of me. And she's like, What's this thing that's blocking you, stopping you? Let's pull it out and look at it. And so we pulled it out and looked at it, and it was this black, sticky tar.

SPEAKER_03: 1:37:56

Really?

SPEAKER_00: 1:37:56

Fuck, that's what was in me in ayahuasca. Um and she's like, Okay, like, what's this tar tar's job? Like, let's just call it tar. I'm like, okay, and she's like, What's its job? So five-year-old may ask, like, what's your job? And it's like, I keep you safe. And she's like, Okay, can we find a way that you can we can keep you safe without stopping you from these things and blah, blah, blah, trying to like turn work with it and turn it into something else. This is like now we're in like trauma therapy, right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:38:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:38:25

Um, and I couldn't through the whole session. It just that's that's not I think that brain of mine that's where I can just stop heroin one day. I can just this, like I'm so, so strong in my mind. But it comes apparently comes from five-year-old me that built this in me. Um I really want to know. Me too. Yeah, clearly you. So we ran out of time in the session, right? And she also does like she does trauma clearing, and she's like, okay, well, you know, you can come back and we can clear this. And she goes, You don't even know need to know what it is. She goes, we can just clear this trauma and be done with it, and then you can like move on. I'm like, fuck that. I'm like, I want to know what it is. Like, I want to know. Like, I'm not running from this. So that's the next step for me is figuring this out. Um, and then once that's cleared, I'd really like to go into the medicine again to then see how much deeper I can go. Because clearly it was trying to take me somewhere, and this blockage something in me was like, nope, nope, nope, like blocking it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:39:28

This is fascinating.

SPEAKER_00: 1:39:29

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:39:31

I love these, I love hearing this because everybody's story is so different. There's n if like I kind of said a little bit ago, the reason that I'm stuck on it is because when I when I talk to my buddies and I talk to these people, my problems that I have with it, these are my holdups, why I haven't just leaped and because I know I need it. On a spiritual side of things, I have a hard time praying or worshiping a ayahuasca god or any other gods besides.

SPEAKER_00: 1:40:06

It's not a god, that's the thing. Okay, not it's not a god. It's just Mother Ayahuasca is just like an energy that's in everything. It's just a name people put on it, and what else are you gonna call it, right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:40:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:40:18

Yeah, the ayahuasca is just the medicine itself, and the medicine is just you reflecting inwards, there's not like some other thing.

SPEAKER_04: 1:40:26

Like I thought in conversation with a lot of these guys, they see a lot of serpents, there's a lot of dark uh portals that I feel they can open up. That's where, especially as me getting back into faith with in Christianity and being a baby new Christian all over again and and going down that route, which is changing my life in so many ways. Do I want to venture in into that? Because where I'm torn, if I'm this Christian, I just need my faith and my Bible that's supposed to heal all. Do I give it time and I keep going down this journey with my faith and my my conversations with God, but it's always there. But then you read and you're in scripture, and it's like, okay, it heals, he heals all. Give give every give it all, right? And it's like, okay, if I'm not given it all to Christ yet, or do I want to go and experience this? And I'm the type of person I just like to experience things, I want to know. Just yeah, and I I've done things before, like I've done breath works, and even people could say that's demonic and meditating's demonic, freaking yoga's demonic. There's so many different vr paths you can go down of demonic things, right? And so, but then like I do these breath works, and I'm just like, I don't feel shit.

SPEAKER_00: 1:41:50

Neither did I until that one time. And that's where I'm like, okay. All the ones before that, I was like, Yeah, I don't know. Well, I just kept going, you know, because I wanted to get there and I wanted that experience. I just kept trying. Okay. And the time I needed it the most hit you. That's where it took me.

SPEAKER_04: 1:42:05

I have a client, he's huge on breath work. He's huge. And so that's where I started open because I love that's the best part about clients. Like, yeah, you spend a week with somebody in your truck, and this is this is literally guiding, you know, for a week. I get somebody stuck in my truck or blind or something for a week, so I get to pick their brain and just really get to learn people and hearing him talk, and it's I'm not one of these people who's like, oh, it changed this guy's life, it's gonna change mine. I'm everybody is on a different path. But uh, I love hearing different versions of stuff and how it's healed people, but then I lean always lean back to Christianity, like, okay, but all I need is they don't have to fight each other, they can compliment each other. But then I talked to a guy like Vic.

SPEAKER_00: 1:42:46

Yes, he said that the medicine brought him closer to God.

SPEAKER_04: 1:42:50

He said he walked with God. Yes. So I'm like, and then you talk to him, it's like, okay, this dude you'd look at and be like, There's no fucking way. There's no way that this dude's been in prison in and out of the system for 10 years, shot a dude's been shot twice. Yeah, the crazy gangbanger life this dude lived, and now you talk to him, he's the most like loving, peaceful man. And I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:13

And it's all about the medicine.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43:15

Like, but then when you get this, and there's another thing that I have a holdup with is like your spiritual animal. Not him. I think a lot of dudes see jaguars and cats and things, but you said the serpent. I have buddies that have serpents, they have a fair like these Egyptian pharaoh creature animals.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:37

That's the harpy eagle.

SPEAKER_03: 1:43:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:40

And the serpent is the anaconda.

SPEAKER_03: 1:43:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:43

And remember, I told you the most spiritual animals in the Amazon are the anaconda, the harpy eagle, and the jaguar.

SPEAKER_03: 1:43:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:48

And that's where ayahuasca is from. It's from Peru, from the Amazon, from the Shipibo Shamans. So one of the best things that can happen to you under ayahuasca, that's like almost like a goal for a lot of people, is for the anaconda to eat you, and then you go into it and you become the anaconda. That happened to one of the guys when I was there, and he goes, I was like, I know what it feels like to slither and have my tongue like come out and whatever. And that's just like you're reaching that, those, that spiritual, whatever. So it's not a bad thing to become the anaconda or the jaguar or the harpy eagle, which looks like an Egyptian pharaoh. I told you it's like an eagle with an owl head.

SPEAKER_04: 1:44:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:44:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:44:27

I mean, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00: 1:44:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:44:29

It's very fascinating to me, and I'm very intrigued by it because I just want to know. I'm one of those. I'm like, I just want to try this shit.

SPEAKER_00: 1:44:35

I want to I mean, I went into it, same thing. I was like, I don't even know. Like, I've heard about people going and doing it, and like it can be healing. And I was like scared about having to relive trauma, but I was like, I mean, it's not gonna kill me. What's the worst that can happen? You know?

SPEAKER_04: 1:44:49

Yeah, I'm I'm I'm with you. Uh, because I'm one of those where I'm like, that's not gonna work on me. I'm not gonna get hypnotized. I I'm not I'm not one of those people.

SPEAKER_00: 1:44:57

Same thing with me going to the hypnotherapist. I was like, I there's no way this mind, this how strong this mind is, I'm not, it's not even gonna work. And it took a long time. Like she was like, You're gonna count down from 99, and when you get a few numbers in, they're just gonna disappear and you're gonna feel heavy. I was down at like 70, 60, and she's like looking at me and I'm like, it's not working.

SPEAKER_04: 1:45:16

That's breath work. And they're like, Hey, breathe, are you feeling?

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:18

I'm like, Yeah, that's good. Because when I got there, she was telling her about ayahuasca and breath work and these things that I do and these realms I've been to, and she's like, Oh man, you do outer body travel, like you're gonna go on a ride today. This is gonna be easy, and then no, uh, couldn't get me under, took forever, and then couldn't even get to a past life.

SPEAKER_04: 1:45:35

Like interesting. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm open for it. And I should so try it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:43

I'm so interested to hit.

SPEAKER_04: 1:45:44

I guess my biggest thing is I know what I'm capable of doing to in like just not I don't want to say like violent wise. There's not many people that are gonna be able to control me if I'm not in the right mindset. And that scares me. So I want my wife there because she's the only person I feel on this planet that can just poof if there's so for me to not be in a controllable mindset scares me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:46:15

That's where I'm not that out of it though.

SPEAKER_04: 1:46:18

Okay. Um yeah, my buddy says he's having conversations, he's getting up and going to the bathroom in it, exactly and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 1:46:25

Because I have buddies that take I was there with a few vets. There's a few vets there, and one was really going through some stuff. He is actually his spot was beside mine. Yeah. And I remember on the last night, he was like, or second to last night, when I had the goo going through me, he had something, and he was squirming, and he kept flopping over onto my bed and kicking me and an arm over here, and like he was just groaning, and on Kyle's just like, I remember like being like, Oh man, this poor guy's really going through it. I'm going through it, but this guy's really going through it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:46:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:46:55

Here's another thing that they're like, you're safe. And there's facilitators, so there's the six where I was. There's the six shamans, and then there's like a whole bunch of facilitators in there too that have like trained and done the IWA scan. They're coming around checking on you and helping you, and then there's a little DMT hospital, we call it, for the people that are really fucking out there, because you don't want that to affect the other people's experience in the room. So they just take them out to their own area and someone sits with them and like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:47:21

Is it personal when you're laying there with a bunch of people? Do you kind of forget they're there, or is everybody going through this together, so you just don't care?

SPEAKER_00: 1:47:28

So most of the times I just you don't even realize they're there. Like I you just go to the other realm. That one time where I didn't, and I was in the room, obviously, then I saw another people's energy was kind of I was like kind of picking up on their energies and stuff. Um but that's kind of like the whole part of it. You're all healing together, and it it helps at the same time.

SPEAKER_03: 1:47:50

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00: 1:47:51

Yeah, it's pretty crazy stuff. But yeah, so I definitely, definitely want to do the medicine again for sure. Um, but I want to clear this whatever blockage is because it came up under the medicine. It did. And now I realize that at the time I I just thought that was ayahuasca showing me, okay, you're always in control. You need to learn to let go sometimes. But now I realize it's something deeper in me, subconscious, that's yeah, I would love to be able to time travel back and see past lives.

SPEAKER_04: 1:48:22

Past lives.

SPEAKER_00: 1:48:23

How cool. I was so stoked on this. I was like telling everybody. I was like, I can't wait. I was like, I've always thought I lived in this era, like you know, and then when she told me, like, oh yeah, you're gonna go on a journey today, like you do ayahuasca, you do breath work, like this is gonna be awesome. I was so stoked. And then I just walked out of there, like, fuck. You know, like I didn't go anywhere, I was just five years old. I just want to see if I ever fought like a Roman army just hacking dudes down and no, I can't like clear whatever this is and get back in there and just see some past lives. And even that's super healing for people because there's lessons, right, that just keep going life to life because you're not learning them or you're not getting whatever from it. Or the same way generational trauma works, you can have that in your own past lives of trauma, right? So to be able to go through that and find um, you know, repeating patterns or whatever can be so beneficial moving forward in this life, right? If it's all real. I mean, who knows? Maybe you're just making it all up in your imagination. I mean, who knows? If it's real enough, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:49:29

Like What gives a shit?

SPEAKER_04: 1:49:31

I know. Okay. Now that we've covered that, yeah. Interesting. Very, very interesting. Let's talk you being on your own. Have you ever had any just scary situations that you've either found yourself into, could have been preventable, yeah?

SPEAKER_00: 1:49:50

Yeah, there's been a couple. The a big one was this year, this summer in Bolivia. Um so I was traveling through South America, I was in Bolivia, I just left the Uyuni Salt Plats, which mind-blowing, the world's largest mirror, they call it. Um and I was heading to I think Chile, the Chile border. I don't know, yeah, I think. Um, but it's really, really far. It's a really long drive. So I basically just drove for like five, six hours through the desert, through like nothing. Not one town, not one city, no phone service, nothing. And there's just this like little hotel that's meant for people going along this road. Um, so my driver drops me off. I check in and he takes off. He's probably going six hours back to wherever he came from.

SPEAKER_03: 1:50:43

Jeez, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:50:44

And um, so I check in. The guy working at the desk is the only guy working there. And he's like hunched back and like one eyes going this way, and he's like kind of quasimodo. And I remember like thinking, I'm like, this is like some hills have eyes shit. I was like, literally, I'm in the middle of the desert, in the middle of nowhere, with this like probably inbred back hick, like hunched back weirdo. And I I remember saying that I text a friend because they had Wi-Fi at this hotel. I was like, I was like, this is like hills have eyes. I was like, this shit's weird. I was like, whatever, you know, it is what it is. So um I eat dinner. He's also the chef, he cooks the dinner, and then I go to my room.

SPEAKER_04: 1:51:27

Are you the only one here? I'm the only one. In this whole hotel? Yeah. Okay. Red flag.

SPEAKER_00: 1:51:33

Yeah. And so I like go to my room and I'm just like kind of just getting ready for bed. I'm like, whatever. I got another six-hour drive the next day. Some driver from the other side is gonna come get me and take me to the border. And yeah, like brush my teeth, everything, and I'm like changing, and then there's this knock at the door, and I'm like, what does this guy want? You know? So I go and I open the door and I answer, and he like looks at me and he's like, Oh, like, was dinner good? I'm like, Yeah, dinner is great. He's like, Okay, and he has something else I don't really remember. And he's kind of like pushing the door a little bit open, and I'm like kind of shooing him out, and he's trying to talk to me, and I'm just kind of like, I'm going to bed, like, leave me alone. And then he says to me, and he's speaking English. I speak Spanish, so South America is easy for me to travel around, but um, from being in Mexico, uh, but he speaks in English and he goes, Um, well, if you'd like company with you overnight tonight, I'm available.

SPEAKER_04: 1:52:30

This is this quasimoto looking dude.

SPEAKER_00: 1:52:33

I'm like, first of all, what makes you think I like eh, whatever, guys are guys, yeah. They all think they're special. Um, anyways, and so I'm like, no, I'm good, you know? And I go to like close the door, and he like puts his hand on the door and like opens it again. And he's like, Are you sure? Like, I'm just here. I'm at the whatever. I'm like, yeah, bro, I'm good. And I like slam the door, lock it. Um, text a friend, I told them like what happened. I'm like, that's fucked up. I'm like, yeah, I know. And then I'm like sitting there thinking in that moment, I was like, man, I'm all the way out here in the middle of nowhere. My only lifeline is Wi-Fi. I was like, could you imagine if this guy shut the Wi-Fi off or something? I'd be, I have no way to contact anyone. I'm like, oh well, whatever. Maybe he just is lonely out here and meant like if you want to hang out or have a coffee. I mean, like, I knew that's not what he meant, but you convince yourself of things so you can go to bed and go to sleep.

SPEAKER_04: 1:53:30

Yeah, a little peace of mind.

SPEAKER_00: 1:53:32

Yeah. So I go to bed and I go to sleep. I've been sleeping, it's I don't know, four hours, maybe three hours at this point. And all of a sudden, I hear fucking knock, knock, knock, knock, knock at the door. And I wake up and I'm like, what the fuck? Knock, knock, knock, knock, knock. And I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna pretend I'm sleeping. Because if this guy's just trying to hang out and talk or make conversation, like once he knows I'm sleeping, he's gonna fuck off, right? So I just like lay there and I grab my phone and I text my friend from back home. And I was like, dude, this guy's knocking at my door again. And he's like, yell at him, like say something. I'm like, no, I'm just gonna like pretend I'm sleeping. So he goes away because I'm like, he's just looking for someone to hang out with. This goes on for 11 minutes. I've looked from the first text to like last 11 minutes. He's sitting there knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking on my door, and I'm just staying quiet. So I'm just like, I just want this guy. It's like one in the morning. Okay. I hear the key. No. Go in the door. No. Yes. Are you shitting at this point? Tink, tink, turn. And I fucking like slam my hand on the headboard like three times and yell and flick the light on. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? And I hit I hit video call on, I was on WhatsApp to who I'm with so that like they can hear and see everything going on instantly, like all at the same time. And the guy's like, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, get the fuck out of here. I'm like screaming through the door. And he's talking through the door, and he's like, Oh, yeah, yeah. So he goes, Oh, I I uh I was like, Why are you why are you at my door? And he's like, Oh, I just wanted to apologize for the comment I made earlier. And I'm thinking, like, apologize. You just tried coming into my room with the fucking key. Like, you were not coming in here to apologize for shit. My heart is like pounding through my like in my throat. Adrenaline is just going.

SPEAKER_04: 1:55:32

I'm like, There's no secondary lock on the door, just the nor that he has a key to.

SPEAKER_00: 1:55:36

Nothing. And I'm like looking around the room. There's no lamp, there's no side table. There's this is like a ghetto shitty, you know, there's literally not one thing that I could grab or use. No weapons. The there was like part, there's like these big rock outcrops there in the hotels built around it. So part of it, part of the wall was rock. So I was just thinking, if this guy opens the door, I'm fucking smashing his fucking head into this rock wall until his brains are everywhere. That was just like the only thing I could think of, right? There's nothing that I could grab of anything. And like it wasn't so much like fear, because like I mean, I'd fuck this guy up. And I know that, you know, uh, especially in a fight or fight type thing. But just still being in the the situation and the adrenaline and like everything, you know, like I'm shaking, I can't even like hold my hand still, my heart's in my ears, just everything. And uh so there was this one little like particle board bench thing. That's all there was. But if I had used it to hit him, it would just smash into a million pieces. But I took that and I jammed it up under the door handle so that if he did try to come in, it would like prevent the door from opening. That's all I could do. So I jammed that up. I've gone FaceTime with my friend back home in Canada, and I'm just like I'm wide awake. I hear this guy outside shuffling around still. He's not leaving. So now I'm on like high alert. Like this guy still wants to come in. There's no waiting for me.

SPEAKER_04: 1:57:06

There's no no way you can you're not there's a is there a window that you can creep out of?

SPEAKER_00: 1:57:11

There's a big window. So I'm in bed, the doors on my right, and there's a big window to outside on the left, but that's it. And then the bathroom, and I had the bathroom door closed, and then I start thinking the bathroom shower had one of those little shower windows that was open, and I'm starting to like think, like, oh fuck, like what does it come in through that or whatever? And I'm just like, all these scenarios are going through my head. So right away, the best thing I do is FaceTime someone, so at least someone knows the situation I'm in. Then I hear him shuffling, you know, around outside and whatever. So I contact the company that had dropped me off. They have like a 24-hour line or whatever, and I'm like telling them what's going on, and they're like, oh shit, okay, we're gonna send someone out to come check on you. So I'm like, okay, like they're six hours away. I know, but at least I know someone's coming. They never sent anyone, no one came, by the way. Uh I hear him shuffling around outside the door for like an hour. And I'm like, he's like waiting for me to fall asleep or something. And I'm just like, what the fuck? Like, what do I? And there's I can't go anywhere. And then I'm really thinking, what if he shuts the Wi-Fi off? Because like he can hear that I'm FaceTiming someone, so he knows that I'm on the phone with someone. Then it finally stops, and like my heart rate's just starting to go down. I'm just kind of starting to, and then I hear him outside the window. He's like gone around to the outside. Now he's outside the window, and I'm just like, this went on like all night.

SPEAKER_04: 1:58:30

So you didn't go back to sleep.

SPEAKER_00: 1:58:31

No, I didn't sleep once that night. And he was just shuffling around my room all fucking night until my driver that I had booked to get me came and got me.

SPEAKER_04: 1:58:41

What time in the morning did they show up? 7 a.m. Okay, well, this wasn't like noon where you're here.

SPEAKER_00: 1:58:46

But still, not like those hours. You know? Yeah. So that was that was a bad one. And I like obviously they've reported it to the hotel owners, and they said they fired him right away and whatever, but you always wonder, like, what have he got in the room? Or for sure. What were his intentions? And and then I'm thinking, like, oh man, now I'm gonna have some like murder beef in Bolivia, like they're gonna the white tourist, like I'm gonna be in Bolivian jail, like locked up forever, like killing some local national inbred little Quasimoto dude, like fuck great. I'm taking those chances. Things are going through my head in this situation, but I'm like, what's what's my other option? I can't even like run out and run out of there because I'm running into a desert, it'll freeze to death, or like, you know, like there's nothing there.

SPEAKER_04: 1:59:39

You were trapped. I was trapped. That's a shitty situation to be in.

SPEAKER_00: 1:59:43

And I know most girls after that would book a flight home. And I just continued on. I went in to this big canyon that that day and went to chili and went to wine tasting that night, and like I mean it sucked, but I wasn't gonna let it stop me.

SPEAKER_04: 1:59:59

For sure. But damn.

unknown: 2:00:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:00:03

All night. It's almost torture at that point. Like he's toying with you because now that you're peaked, you're hearing everything, every noise is immediate.

SPEAKER_00: 2:00:13

You know that that adrenaline, that your senses are so heightened.

SPEAKER_04: 2:00:17

And there's no coming down. And then when you do and you hear it again, like yeah, it's it's it's a horrible, especially when it lasts all night. All night. And you're just wired. Did you sleep that six hours after he picked you up? Did you pass out for your next ride?

SPEAKER_00: 2:00:30

No. No.

SPEAKER_04: 2:00:32

Damn. No. That's the that's I mean, that's I mean, for for as much traveling as you have been through, is that the worst, like the scariest thing that you've been in?

SPEAKER_00: 2:00:42

I would say so. Like I mean, there's definitely been other things. Like I was drugged and raped in Thailand. Um other thing, like, yeah, there's been other things. It's a long time ago. Um, yeah, there's been other things, but this one was so bad. This other I think almost getting raped was worse than it actually happening. That's probably just that the way my brain processes things.

SPEAKER_04: 2:01:11

Um if you let me ask, how did you get drugged and raped in Thailand?

SPEAKER_00: 2:01:16

Uh so I went to a half moon party.

SPEAKER_04: 2:01:21

Okay. Um which is what exactly?

SPEAKER_00: 2:01:24

So on the island of Copenhagen in Thailand, they have these like full moon parties, half moon parties, black moon parties. They're just like parties on the beach. And a lot of people are doing like mushrooms and stuff like that, and like mushroom shakes. So I got a mushroom shake, but I don't know what else was in it. Yeah. And I woke up, so I don't even like remember any of it. I just remember being on the beach and drinking this shake. And then the next day I woke up, I was on like the front step of someone's bungalow, completely naked. I was stabbed in the back. So I have a big scar there. Um, and yeah, and I've had no clothes, no money, like no nothing. I was just like left naked on the front step of this um person's bungalow. And the the guy living in the bungalow came out and like found me and like woke me up and took a bed sheet and like wrapped me up, and I had to like find my way back to where I was staying and go to the hospital and do a report and rape kid and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Not the first or last time either. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:02:35

So you're a strong-willed woman.

SPEAKER_00: 2:02:38

I kind of have to be. Yeah. Kind of have to be.

SPEAKER_03: 2:02:43

Stabbed? Yeah. I would have thought they probably took my kidneys or something. I feel like I'm not sure. I know.

SPEAKER_00: 2:02:48

I don't know with what or like, but I had to get all these stitches and like I can't remember any of it, right? I just know I'm at the end. Wow, that is terrifying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:03:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:03:02

You are a strong-willed woman. You have been through some shit.

SPEAKER_00: 2:03:06

And I had my son with me. So he was back at the I'd had got like the lady. I had rented a place for a few months. I was living on the island, traveling with him. And so the there's like all these bungalows, right? And so the lady that ran it had all these kids and stuff, and so she was like, Oh yeah, like I'll watch him. You go out, and I was just gonna be gone for a few hours and come back. Well, it's now the next morning. And I'm waking up on this thing. My son was like three or four at the time. So I'm like try trying to deal with this and take care of him and like keep traveling with him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:03:41

Wow. That's a that is a situation to find yourself in.

SPEAKER_00: 2:03:46

Yeah, I guess. It's so weird that I'm just like, meh, I don't know. Like, shit happens.

SPEAKER_04: 2:03:49

Do you think a lot of that comes from your childhood where you just you just blow things off because maybe I'm not or maybe after so many bad things happening, it's like numb to it?

SPEAKER_00: 2:03:59

Yeah. It's like shit happens, you know. Yeah, that's not normal though. Like you can't it can't all be this super traumatic event. It's just like fucking, you know, shit happens.

SPEAKER_04: 2:04:11

I don't know how to unpack that though. Yeah, I don't need that.

SPEAKER_00: 2:04:13

Like hearing that, you know, it's because someone else told me a couple days ago that's not normal either. Like, you know, that's not normal, right? I'm like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 2:04:21

Like if you were my daughter sitting here, I would be like No.

SPEAKER_00: 2:04:26

Like we're not But it also wasn't the first time that it happened either. So like you can only be sexually assaulted so many times, and when it happens again, you're just like, whatever, you know? No. No, of course you don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 2:04:39

I don't know, but yeah, I don't feel like that's normal either to be able to accept it. So I'm not saying you're accepting it easily, but is it even at the time I it was like whatever and went to the hospital, dealt with it, moved on.

SPEAKER_00: 2:04:54

Uh like what else are you gonna do? Cry about it for a month? No.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04:59

No.

SPEAKER_00: 2:05:00

Strong mind. Okay, that happened next. We'll see what I unpack from five-year-old me.

SPEAKER_03: 2:05:11

Fucking A, right?

SPEAKER_00: 2:05:13

Yeah, where this wall comes from. This strong, that's what it, that's what it is. That my ability to do that, that's where it started. Are you completely unpacked? That that's where that comes from.

SPEAKER_04: 2:05:24

Is there a part of you that's scared to break that wall down?

SPEAKER_00: 2:05:27

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_04: 2:05:28

You what you're looking for it?

SPEAKER_00: 2:05:29

Not scared at all. Because whatever, even if it's okay, I was sexually assaulted at fiber, whatever it was that happened, I've dealt with all that later in life. So, like, that's not gonna break me apart and break my self-identity. You know what I mean? Like, no matter what it is, I know I can deal, I can handle it. For sure. You know, like I've been through the worst. So I'm not scared of it. But the thing that's weird is that hypnotherapist was telling me, she was like, your subconscious set is telling you you're not strong enough to handle this, and that's why it's blocking it. And I'm like, there's no way. Like, look at everything I've been through. There's no way I'm not strong enough to handle whatever this is. Like, it's that's literally impossible. Like, there's nothing anyone could do to me or anything that I could learn or whatever that's gonna rock or shake me, you know. I've I see your point for sure. And she's like, no, your subconscious really does not believe you can handle it. So the only thing that I'm a little about isn't what, it's who, but who. Because that could shake me. Whatever it is, who knows, right? Like, that's the only thing that makes me wonder. Like, is this why it's been blocked and why I'm so headstrong, why I block all these things? I don't know. Could I mean who knows? It could just be I got yelled at really bad one time and it traumatized me, and I froze up and put walls up, right? Kids are kids build walls for all kinds of reasons. So who knows, right? That's the only thing that I'm a little like scares me a little bit about unpacking it. If it is something really bad that my subconscious thinks is so bad I can't handle it, I know it's not a what, I know it's a who.

SPEAKER_04: 2:07:08

That makes sense. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Is there are you scared of finding out who like no you think no? No. I don't know how to ask. I don't know. Is do you I wanna know.

SPEAKER_00: 2:07:18

Are there any like do I have an inkling? No. No, no. I mean immediate family, for sure. But other than that, I don't know. But there's no, that's just like speculation. Like I said, it could just be little kids are traumatized from yeah, just being yelled at, or you know, like, and they put up a block and it's just so strong it's gone all the way through. It's no way to know until I go. But that's when she was like, we can do trauma clearing and you don't need to know what it was. I was like, no, I like fuck that. I want to know. Like, I want to know.

SPEAKER_04: 2:07:50

I'm yeah, yeah. When I talk to people, they're like, I don't want to know that to me, and this is just me, how that mind works, um, that terrifies me. Yeah, yeah, because you're going through like blind, just like following whatever, like, no, like whatever, whatever fate takes you, but knowing you have this shit in you, and you're like, Oh, I don't want to know, no, I'm I'm good with my life I live now, but obviously that is compounding your whole entire life to the problems that you're facing now. I'm the type of person like, dude, let's get this out of me.

SPEAKER_00: 2:08:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:08:25

I want I want to face it, let's move on.

SPEAKER_00: 2:08:27

I I don't I don't it's like so, yeah, I don't know. Even if it is, I just uh I I just don't know what could be so bad that my subconscious is like you can't handle it, you know. I even I don't remember much, so I can't I can't say either way, but my grandpa on my mom's side is a pedophile, like known pedophile. I'm not gonna say how I know or whatever that's someone else's story, but brutal pedophile. And when I was like, I don't know how old, seven, eight, nine, something like that. My parents sent me to stay with them for the summer. And again, I don't have much memory before the age of 12. I do have one memory. We went, he took me fishing in the morning, and we I met one of his friends at some diner. It's like 5 a.m. pitch blackout. We're at this diner, and I remember sitting there, and he had his hand on my leg and was like rubbing my leg. I could find it. It's like a flash memory, and then I guess the three of us went fishing for the day, or that's what we were supposed to do. I don't know. But that's all I remember from that. Um the fact that my parents would send me out there to live with them. You might not have known then. Oh, they oh, they knew very well knew, yes.

SPEAKER_04: 2:09:48

Yeah. It blows my mind that you even communicate.

SPEAKER_00: 2:09:52

And I'm not saying that from like everyone.

SPEAKER_04: 2:09:55

Yeah, it's very, very fascinating to me. Uh, you have a thousand.

SPEAKER_00: 2:09:59

I know one of my biggest faults. It's funny, someone like recently said to me, like, Oh, what's been like your biggest downfall in relationships? And I answered as like it's my loyalty. Like, I'm too loyal, like to a fault. Um, and then I was talking to a girlfriend of mine that I've been friends since I was 14, and I was like, Yeah, so-and-so asked me, you know, what's your like biggest fault in relationship? She goes, Your loyalty. She spits it out right away. Like, I like can not go against someone even if they're hurting me, if that person's supposed to be in my life, and that's that's almost Stockholm Stockholm syndrome. I know, right?

SPEAKER_04: 2:10:34

Or is that is that the right one? Yeah, so like where you you you're I mean, you hear about these kids that get kidnapped and they end up falling in love with their kidnapper. Yeah. So that I mean that right there is a trauma response.

SPEAKER_00: 2:10:46

Yes. So I think there's some stuff from childhood that that is a trauma thing. So that's something I've been working on, right? In my own self, yeah. Not just being loyal to a fault or letting people hurt me and do these things. Like that's not even that's not being loyal to myself. No, not at all.

SPEAKER_04: 2:11:03

Yeah. Especially, you know, you're I feel like you're a pretty strong headed woman to be able to travel the world to be able to do the things you do, but then the fact that your parents, I'll say our parents, hold this anchor that you can't just sever.

SPEAKER_00: 2:11:20

I can't. Yeah. And I have, like, I've gone times where I cut them out and didn't talk to them for however amount of time, but always go back. Always go back.

SPEAKER_04: 2:11:30

Why the lifeline? You got a very successful job, you have an incredible relationship with your son. Family. That's what they say.

SPEAKER_00: 2:11:37

Like, they're like, when there's no one else there, you always have family. But I'm like, that's not true because they're not there. Like, I had an ex that like just beat the shit out of me, like by bleeding everything. And I was in the basement suite at my dad's house. And after he left, like I was like screaming, whatever. My dad came running down. I'll never forget this. He was wearing a white t-shirt, and I just like hugged my dad and I was crying, and I like came back, and there's blood all over my dad's shirt. Well, I broke up with that ex. My dad stayed best friends with him and my brother. He was a groomsman at my brother's wedding down the road, you know. Like my brother and my dad kept this guy around, invited him on family trips. Like, we went to Vegas for my dad's birthday, and they invited this ex on our family trip, and I had to sit beside him at the table. Like, there's no loyalty there. So, why are you giving them loyalty?

SPEAKER_02: 2:12:25

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 2:12:25

I really don't know. Because that this is where you need to be. I know. I've been working I'm aware of these things. Like, most people aren't aware. Like, I can talk about it because I'm aware it's there, and that's just another thing I've been working on, right? But I know. Yeah, fuck that.

SPEAKER_03: 2:12:44

I know. Yeah. Fascinating.

SPEAKER_00: 2:12:50

So they like that. But but then that's the talk that my family has. They always say family is everything. Like family is what's always gonna be there. But anytime I've needed them, like in Thailand, you know, I was like down and out, and nothing, whatever, and there was no real like inner, like there wasn't smartphones or anything back then. So I emailed my mom to be like, This happened. I'm like stuck, and you know, I have no money because I woke up with nothing. Like, can you why you'd have to like money mark why your money back then? She didn't even respond to my email.

SPEAKER_04: 2:13:27

You need you need to you know what you need to do. Blood, I hate the one of the my most hated phrases is blood's thicker than water. I it's not.

SPEAKER_00: 2:13:36

I it's not because I have friends that are way more solid to me than my family ever has been. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:13:43

Yes. I but I just like I've been though though.

SPEAKER_00: 2:13:47

I've hung on and be the like I need to be better than them, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 2:13:51

And by being better than them is is allowing you to live your life under under But I do.

SPEAKER_00: 2:13:57

I don't think they're like toxic in their ways now, but not as bad as before, or maybe I just like let things slide more. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 2:14:05

There's no as bad as before if they're allowing what's happened in the past to happen, especially as a parent. You know, would you allow some of the things that to your son?

SPEAKER_00: 2:14:14

Not a chance. No.

SPEAKER_04: 2:14:15

You're gonna leave your son abandoned in a foreign country after getting stabbed and losing everything?

SPEAKER_00: 2:14:21

Not in a million years. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:14:23

Yeah, family's weird, man. It's very interesting. And I get it. Uh trust me. Um one of my faults is I'm loyal to people, and that's one thing I've had to work on over the last few years, is my loyalty and where it goes. And that's where I'm like, man, I give everybody my loyalty, but my own family and myself, and that's where I've really like pushed it away.

SPEAKER_00: 2:14:43

I think like the good side of all this is it's made me incredibly resilient, 100%, incredibly comfortable in chaos, 100%, which is to be able to live this life that I live. That's so adventurous and so like I've been to 28 countries in the last 23 months. That's incredible, you know. Like, and just like you said, one day I'm hiking up a volcano, and then the next day I'm swimming with penguins, and then three days later I'm in icebergs, like in Ushawaia, and then another day later I'm in a Brazil at the waterfalls. Like it's just and but I'm comfortable there, like with all that going on and that chaos, I'm comfortable in that. It's when I go home and I'm like sitting at home, and I don't have a purpose there because my company runs itself, so I don't have anything I'm creating or doing. So I'm just sitting there with nothing to do all day. My son's off in university, like the house is quiet. I am like I was home three days, flew here. I was like, nope, I'm going home for two days, flying to Mexico.

SPEAKER_04: 2:15:51

Like I just This is all a traumatic response though. Yeah. This is a trauma response, is is you you have to surround yourself when I say chaos, not in like a negative way, but just being on the road, something new, new adventure.

SPEAKER_00: 2:16:06

Well, when I was building my business though, I was able to stay home because I had something I was creating, right? Or when my son wasn't in university and he was home, I had him to take care of, and you know what I mean. It's just like when you're not creating something, you're stagnant, and I can't just sit and start at the wall all day. I 100%. I don't watch TV, you know. So I just like so I'd go and find things to do. And you've also built this life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:16:28

So I mean I r I respect it. I'm not knocking it by any means, but I wonder if there a lot of that comes from just you can't sit still.

SPEAKER_00: 2:16:34

Yeah. I people have asked me that, and I I don't think so because it's only been the last two years that I've been staying this busy. Okay. You know.

SPEAKER_02: 2:16:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 2:16:41

You know, before that, I've been settled down and in relationships and raising my kid. And I haven't, I mean, I've always traveled lots, definitely, but I could go like three months in between trips or something. It's just now part of it's emptiness syndrome. My son left for university and suddenly I'm like, oh my God, I have no purpose. Who am I if I'm not a mom raising my kid? Like, you know, that's been my entire adult life. I became a pregnant at 19. I know nothing else but taking care of him and being his mom.

SPEAKER_04: 2:17:11

Which is the greatest thing ever.

SPEAKER_00: 2:17:12

And then that was also something that propelled me into this two years because it's like now for the first time in my life, because yeah, I traveled, I took him to like 10 countries before he was five years old, but I had to always think about him, right? Like I was saying, like someone else for the first time in my life, the only person I have to be responsible to is me as an adult. Like I've never been able to just be an adult, like most people are in their 20s doing things and whatever. Like I never had that. Plus, I was so fucked up in the head for Mexico. So it's like it's my time for me, and I want to travel, right? So it was also like just taking advantage of that.

SPEAKER_04: 2:17:46

You're young, you got the money, you got the freedom, do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:17:49

I mean, I yeah, full bodied, like healthy, I can do it. Why wait? You know, people retire at God knows what age anymore, like to try to do some things like I want to do it now.

SPEAKER_04: 2:18:00

For sure.

SPEAKER_00: 2:18:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:18:01

Where's one place you would love to go back to? What's some where's a place that changed your life?

SPEAKER_00: 2:18:09

A place that changed my life. That's a tough one to answer. Indonesia definitely is like one of my favorite places on earth. It's just so beautiful. All the islands, like if you have Bali, Bali is great, but there's so many islands in Indonesia. That was where I went and lived with the first tribe, too, um, which was still to this day the most beautiful tribal experience I've ever had. Um just like, ugh, take my breath away. It was unbelievable. And all the other islands are so special to like Komodo Island, Borneo. Um, there's just so much diversity there. The people are so great. Yeah. I really, in a lot of ways, found myself. And so like the eat pray love, go to Bali, find yourself. But for me, it wasn't Bali, it was Indonesia.

SPEAKER_04: 2:19:05

For sure.

SPEAKER_00: 2:19:06

Um, I remember I went to live, this was two years ago. I went to live with the Mentowai tribe in Indonesia for my birthday. And that was my first like real big I'd visited tribes, you go and stay an hour and leave kind of thing, but this was like stay with them for a week. And I'll never forget. So that morning we'd gone out to check the traps, like they've set foot traps and stuff for hunting, and ended up like crossing a wild boar, and that turned into now this like whole hunt. And I was like, this is the best thing ever. It's my birthday, and I'm like hunting boar, and they've got this little dog, and I hount hound-hunt all the time. So, like hunt hunting with dogs is right up my alley. And I actually ended up intercepting twice and seeing the boar, which the tribesmen never did because they don't have that, like, because I've done it with GPS and everything, and I know the way things are gonna move, and I know how to cut off, or they're just following the dogs. So that was super cool, and I can kind of teach them some things anyway. So we're out and we get back to um it's not it's not even it's one house, they all live in one house. And there I couldn't see any woman anywhere, and I'm like, girl, the woman. And I'm looking, looking, looking. So in this tribe, the men do all the cooking, not the woman. The woman can only make this one kind of bread in a back kitchen, and then the main kitchen, like fire, is right in the middle of the house, and that's where the men make all the meals.

SPEAKER_03: 2:20:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 2:20:33

And I found all the women in the back where they make the bread, and I kind of like looked and I realized they were baking me a cake. Now, this is a tribe, none of them know how old they are. They don't have calendars, they don't nothing. They just know that in our culture, we do cake for our birthday. They spent their entire day where like tribes are living day by day. They have to go in the morning, collect their food for the day. We collect the water, boil it for the day. Like life is survival. Yeah, they spent their day going, cutting down a tree to shave up the bark, to make a flower, getting coconuts to shred, to add sweetener, a whole like 10, 12 hour day out of their time to make me this like cake for my birthday. And I burst into tears. Like, just it was the most real, genuine, loving thing anyone had ever done for me in my life, especially for a birthday. Like just out of the pureness of their heart, it was just such a and then like they came out and they're like whistling the tune to happy birthday. And you know, the shaman brought it out to me, and it was just such a I mean, even this year and that year, laptop last year, I didn't even no one called me on my birthday. My phone didn't ring once. Not even my parents, not even a voicemail. So, like them doing that was just so yeah, that was that was really cool.

SPEAKER_04: 2:22:04

That would be a good thing. And this is a good tribe.

SPEAKER_00: 2:22:06

The people I don't know, we don't even speak the same language, nothing, but we like bonded so well. And I get up, I don't just like live with these tribes and observe, like I get really involved. So I was waking up even before them, and I'm going down. When the first shaman wakes up, I've already got like 10 buckets of water brought up on the fire, you know, boiling it for the day. I've climbed up some tree and knocked some fruit, like I'm involved. And then I remember when I left, there's this one um one of the women there, it was the shaman's sister that I had like kind of bonded with. She asked, because I had a translator. So she'd obviously asked him how to translate. And when I left, she gave me this big hug and she goes, I, you, mama, you, me, daughter. And I was just like, Ugh, they're just the most real people you'll ever come across in your life. You take everything away, and that's one thing I love. This is why I live with tribes. You strip the world away as we know it. Our electronics, our your home, your comfort, your food, growing, just everything gone. And all you're left with is humanity, is what humanity is supposed to be, what it means to be a human. And it's the close knit of the people and how they work together and they all rely on each other and they all move together. It's the most beautiful thing to experience. Like, yeah, going and darting monkeys and all that shit's cool too. I love adventure, but it's the people and that connection that I love so much and that I travel and visit these tribes for.

SPEAKER_04: 2:23:33

I've had this conversation before and I've taught I've been able to talk to buddies, and I I know you're 100% gonna know what I'm talking about, but it's like you take this guy that's worth 30, 40, 50 million dollars, most miserable human being you've ever met, has everything in the world, shit all over his family, doesn't care. And then you meet somebody that doesn't even have a shirt to give you off their back, and they're the most accepting, just loving, and it's crazy, and it shows you not I don't I don't think a lot of people get to see that. And yeah, it's here in the States. I mean, yeah, I I know people that don't have it.

SPEAKER_00: 2:24:13

My dad's billionaire.

SPEAKER_04: 2:24:14

Your dad's a billionaire? Another thing a lot of people don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 2:24:17

A lot of people see my lifestyle, my success, and think they're like, oh, her parents are just funding it. There's no trust fund. Last time I got a dollar for my parents, I was I don't even know, 10. Yeah.

unknown: 2:24:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:24:29

What does he do?

SPEAKER_00: 2:24:30

He's a developer.

SPEAKER_04: 2:24:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 2:24:32

Yeah.

unknown: 2:24:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:24:34

So you exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 2:24:35

But we didn't like it wasn't always like that. I remember when if my dad didn't go hunting that winter, we didn't like have meat. I remember living us, our whole family, with my grandparents, because we had no money. So he's him and my mom built the business together. Without her, he'd be successful, but know where he is today. They've done it all together. They both work in the office. She runs the money, she runs the books, and he's just out kind of you know on the forefront. So that's only been in the last like 30 years, really the last 20 that it really took off.

SPEAKER_04: 2:25:03

So you get it.

SPEAKER_00: 2:25:04

I mean self-made. And that's why I told you my dad wasn't around because he was working his ass off to build what he has now.

SPEAKER_04: 2:25:09

For what?

SPEAKER_00: 2:25:10

Uh yeah, well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:25:11

For what? That's where I feel a lot of a lot of people just they miss it, man. I mean, here you your dad's a billionaire, could have anything he wants, and he doesn't have a relationship with his daughter.

SPEAKER_00: 2:25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:25:21

Is it just you and your brother?

SPEAKER_00: 2:25:22

No, I have an older sister.

SPEAKER_04: 2:25:23

How's that?

SPEAKER_00: 2:25:25

Similar, not as bad. Like they weren't not as bad on with her as they were with me.

SPEAKER_04: 2:25:29

You have a middle child? On the middle child. There we go. All right. It's always the middle kids. That's always the middle kid.

SPEAKER_00: 2:25:36

They actually sent me a meme yesterday with a family chat, and they literally sent a meme like, oh, the second born is always a troublemaker, and then the family was all like sharing memes and shit, talking to me. I'm like, oh yeah, here we go. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:25:51

I get it.

SPEAKER_00: 2:25:52

So she it's similar though. Like, she also has gone to a lot of counseling and just keeps them really at bay. And it's funny, like when I do spend time with my family, like you know, my dad will, you know, have the family all loves to talk shit about everyone. Like, like, oh, I don't know what her deal is, why she doesn't want to come and do this with us or that with us. I'm like, Well, what do you think?

SPEAKER_04: 2:26:12

You know, like you have some valid points, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:26:15

Like, come on, and so she's definitely just keeps the family at arm's length. And then my brother is the golden child, like he's never had to, he's never had to make a resume or like know what struggle is, like he's fucking platinum spoon up his ass. Like I love him, I love my brother's story, Cody. I don't mean it like that. Like, you're great, you work hard.

SPEAKER_04: 2:26:39

But but the silver but the golden child is the golden child, there's no change in that.

SPEAKER_00: 2:26:43

He's the the son, right? The prodigy.

SPEAKER_04: 2:26:46

Yeah. Yeah.

unknown: 2:26:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:26:50

Is there one place you would recommend never visiting again?

SPEAKER_00: 2:26:56

No. No. I think uh everywhere I've been has been pretty, I've gotten something out of it. There's been some like like I went to the Congo. That's where I just got back from an Africa.

SPEAKER_04: 2:27:08

Rose, how is that?

SPEAKER_00: 2:27:09

Yeah, Congo's interesting. If people don't know about the Congo, I was just there like three, four weeks ago.

SPEAKER_04: 2:27:14

I mean, you correct me if I'm wrong. It is a war stricken Americans, there are people women with no hands and feet. I mean, the violence. Yes, us as Americans or North Americans have no idea the level of violent people that live in the Congo. And you went there.

SPEAKER_00: 2:27:33

I just went there.

SPEAKER_04: 2:27:34

Okay, how was this?

SPEAKER_00: 2:27:35

So I went there to live with tribes.

SPEAKER_04: 2:27:36

Okay. Um lived with 16.

SPEAKER_00: 2:27:42

Damn, okay. Yeah. And uh before I went, like, people that knew I was going were like, dude, what are you doing? Like, do you know what's going on there right now? I'm like, yes, I do. Like, you're a white woman that's like small and good looking, like, and you're going alone to the fucking Congo. Like, are you aware of the colour? Yeah, literally. There, I saw child soldiers when I was there, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:28:06

Like, there's children chopping feet off of people and hands off of people, children.

SPEAKER_00: 2:28:12

Yeah. Um, you're like, so I actually had a really like scary situation, like when I landed there. Um, I had one friend, so then I started like Googling, and it's in the top five most dangerous countries in the world, maybe even top three, but it was in the list, it was five. And my friend goes, the two most dangerous places on earth right now are Gaza and the Congo. And he's like, You wouldn't go to Gaza, would you? Like, why the fuck are you going to the Congo? And I was like, I don't know. I mean, if there's some tribe there, maybe I would. Like, I'm just not afraid of these things. I maybe that's also like this trauma thing. Like, nothing scares me. I don't know. But I'm just like, it's gonna be an adventure. We'll see what happens when I come out the other side. Like, um, my son, actually, that's one that he like begged me not to go. He's like, Mom, like, I don't have a dad. Like, I can't, like, what are you doing? You know, but I'm just like, it'll be fine. I'll be fine. I'll be fine. I mean, was it how was Call of Duty? It was, yeah, it was. When I so I landed in Kinshasa, which is like the big city that's just like the worst, the worst. And I used like a company um to help like plan this for me. So they were sending someone, and the person I'd been talking to back and forth, back and forth was this woman from Spain that was flying out to meet me to, you know, organize this for me. And from what I knew, she was supposed to be picking me up at the airport. And she told me, yeah, I'm gonna meet you at the airport. I needed to do a visa extension because everything I plan is last minute, right? Like I just show up and figure out where next. So I can't go somewhere where you need to apply for a visa and it takes a month and blah, blah, blah. So, like with the Congo, they just have this one seven day visa you can get right away. And then I so that's all I did, and then I had to extend it when I landed. So we're supposed to extend it at the airport. She's supposed to meet me there. Well, I get off the plane, like I get my bag, and I'm like walking out, there is no one. There, there's no one with a sign, no one with my name, like nothing. I know I've just arrived in one of the most dangerous places in the world. I'm the only white person in the entire airport, and I'm a girl. Like, I'm a woman, and there's nobody else there. And I'm like standing outside, everybody's looking at me. And the biggest things are like kidnapping, especially for ransoms. And um, yeah, like all the all the worst things you can think of are rampant there, like constant nonstop happening. So I'm like, what the fuck? Like, there's no one here, what's going on? So I'm like messaging her on WhatsApp, and she's like, Oh yeah, no, the driver's out there. I'm like, Well, there's no one with my name or anything. She's like, Oh, I'll call him and tell him to come find you. So, like five minutes later, my phone on WhatsApp starts ringing, and this guy's like, Yeah, I'm out here, like, come find me. So I'm like, Okay. So I like walk outside, I've got my bag, and I'm like on the phone. He goes, Oh, I see you. And this guy just waves at me. But he doesn't have a sign or anything. He's not wearing a logo of like on his shirt, nothing. He's just like another Congolese guy in the crowd of Congolese people. So my brain instantly starts thinking, okay, like I know the person I've or I think the person I've been talking to is legit. Anyone can make a website if they're trying to find people to traffic, right? Like, how do you really know this is even a company? And then I'm also thinking, like, if these organizations that are kidnapping people or holding for ransom or whatever, know this tourist company is bringing people in, they could grip them. They could grip the driver, like, you know, when are you picking this person up? And then use that to get me. So already I'm like high alert now. I walk to the I walk up to this guy and I'm like, Yeah, you know, okay, like, and he's like, Yeah, we gotta go up to the car, but the car is not even in the parking lot. He's like walking up to the street where it's just like the can't even explain what it's like there. Like it's yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:31:54

This is sub-third world country. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:31:57

And um I'm just thinking, like, who it like? I asked the guy, I'm like, Do you know my name? And he's like, Huh? I don't understand. I said, What company do you work for? And he couldn't answer. I said, Who sent you to pick me up? But I'm just waiting, hoping I'm gonna say that girl's name or the company. He didn't he couldn't answer anything. And I'm just like, oh my god, I was like, This is it. Like someone has intercepted that this Canadian's coming into the Congo, it's already a setup. This fucking van pulls up like it's driving and just pulls over on the side of the road, and they just open the door and tell me to get in. And I'm asking him again, I'm like, what company do you work for? Who are you with? Like, and I'm also standing on the street, everyone staring at me. So I'm just a target already because like you can't walk through the streets alone. Like those the those little children will cut your hands off and like take everything, you know what I mean? Literally. So I'm like, I don't want to be on the street, I also don't want to get in this van. But I have no other option at this point. So I'm just like, okay. And I get in and same thing right away. I FaceTime, I have a friend that lives in Africa that hunts and stuff and whatever. He was in Tanzania at the time, but at least he's on the same like time zone-ish. And I just FaceTime him and he like takes one look at my face and he's like, girl, what's the situation you're in? And I was and I'm like, he's like, you just need someone to be on the phone, don't you? And I'm like, Yeah, and I've just got my AirPods in so they can't hear. And so I sent him the hotel I'm going to. I also had it on my phone on maps, so and I shared my location with him so that we can follow the route and make sure we're going in the direction of the hotel. And I'm like, because I'm trying to ask these people questions and they're just not even, I'm like, I was like, where are we going? What hotel are you taking me to? And then now they're just ignoring me. And they're just two men in the front, I'm in the back, no one's answering me. And we're driving through a war zone. It's literally a war zone. Like, I'm looking outside, like, whole, it just looks like bombs have been going off everywhere. Like, just I'm alone. I don't even know where these guys are taking me. I'm just like, fuck. Like, you're gonna get killed the first hour you land in the Congo. Why did you do this? Like, this is literally what I'm thinking. Like, this is what's going through my head. Sure enough, we're heading towards the hotel. All of a sudden, boom, we turn off the route, and we're going through all these like side roads. And Hunter's looking at me like, dude, what the fuck? Like, do you know Hunter, Herbert? You would, yeah. Maybe we cross paths, anyways. And he's like, That's not the route. I'm like, I know. We're both just like in he can't. I mean, he's in Tanzania. I'm in the Congo, he can't do anything, but at least someone knows where I am, and someone knows the situation I'm in because no one ever knows where I am, or so these are the things I think about to like mitigate the situation so that I do end up in when I can. Um, and then I'm trying to ask the driver, I'm like, this isn't the route, this isn't the route, this isn't the route, and then they're like, Oh, shortcut. And I'm like, shortcut. I'm just like, my I'm just like Meanwhile, your phone's like rerouted, reroute. Yeah, rerouted. We ended up making it to the hotel, and they did end up being the right drivers, but that whole drive was like just shit and boards. Because like, what can I do in this? Like, if they're taking me somewhere and they open the door and ten guys are all gonna have AK, like yeah, I can kick and fight, and but like I'm I'm toast, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 2:35:29

Yeah, you ain't even fighting those kids. No, start hacking you with a machete.

SPEAKER_00: 2:35:33

Literally, like it was bad then.

SPEAKER_04: 2:35:35

What did you do in the con?

SPEAKER_00: 2:35:36

So then you left from there and then went to the yeah, I spent a night there, and then the next day went out on gone on this like kind of canoe up the river and then went up towards the tribes. And as soon as you got out of the city, the further up the river you got, it was fine. Like I felt safe. Oh, I know gorilla warfare in the jungle running through. Yeah. So I've kind of come to the you're this is where you're gonna be like, see, you're not normal. Um I would never I've like had I've said before, listen, I know that I want to travel over the all over the world and live with tribes, and like to get there, I have to drive through jungles on these routes through Africa where these guerrilla groups are. I know that there's a chance that I might get rushed by some gorilla group and held and raped and ransom and whatever, but I'm like, if that's if that happens, it happens.

SPEAKER_04: 2:36:25

Like it's yeah, it's not normal, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 2:36:27

Like I'm not not gonna go do these things and live and experience this and live with the tribes because that might happen. I'm well aware that there's a high risk and I'm okay with that risk.

SPEAKER_04: 2:36:37

I under I completely process what you're saying. And I I mean, I I respect that you're like, yeah, but but there's certain points like Congo, like you I know, there's gotta be like a moral compass, right? Like a little radar.

SPEAKER_00: 2:36:54

Like everyone was just like, dude, what the fuck? Why go? There's tribes everywhere, even better tribes, like the Omavali in southern Ethiopia has like the coolest tribes, and I haven't haven't gone to see them yet. The Congo is just like, you know, some more tribes, but I think that's why I picked it, right?

SPEAKER_04: 2:37:10

Obviously, you just live for the thrill.

SPEAKER_00: 2:37:12

Like I wanted to go into the depth of the whatever and come out and be like, Yeah, I went there, I did that. I went to the Congo in the middle of like the worst war shit they've had going on there in history, and went and lived with these tribes, and it was great and it was beautiful and it was super cool.

SPEAKER_03: 2:37:29

And like, yeah, I mean I respect it. Yeah, yeah, you can't knock it. Yeah, good for you.

SPEAKER_00: 2:37:34

So lots of things like that, lots of different Borneo in Indonesia. Oh god. Borneo? Yeah, it's an island in Indonesia. So after I'd lived with the tribes in Indonesia, um, I had found out that Borneo is an island in Indonesia where uh orangutans are endemic. Oh the last living orangutans because they're highly endangered, right? There's two islands, Sumatra and Borneo. And I already passed through Sumatra on my way to the tribes. It was like four days just to get to where these tribes were, by the way. Um so I'm like, I want to go walk in the forest with the wild orangutans. I want to do this while they're still around because they're not gonna be, right? At some point. Same thing. So I'm like researching and I've found some like companies that organize it, but the dates didn't work and nothing. And I find this like just phone number on some like Reddit page or something. So I like go on WhatsApp and I send them a message like, Oh, you organize Borneo or whatever, and they're like, Yeah, sure. And then they throw me the price, and it was like a quarter of what all these other companies were charging. And I was like, huh, kind of a red flag. And I was like, maybe I just lucked out. Um, and they're like, How many people are on their group? I'm like, just me. And they're like, just you, like female, how old? And I'm like, 38, like you know, by myself, da-da-da-da. And I and I book it right then and there, they just send me their bank details. I do a bank transfer, and I'm like, okay, I'm going in eight days, you know. No idea who's on the other end of this line. No, I like Borneo is there's like no cities, no nothing. It's just there's some tribe, there's like cannibal the Dayak tribes around Borneo, um, that are like headhunter tribes. Yeah, they're cannibalistic there, right? Or used to be. Used to be now, but they're known for like the headhunting and stuff, and the town's just this tiny little town, and so here I go. I just send random money to some random bank bank transfer and just trust, yeah, I'm gonna go. So it takes like two days. So Indonesia's huge, there's so many islands. So it took me two days and like four flights just to get there. And I'm like on the flights, and I'm like on my way there, and I'm messaging this number, and I'm like, hey, I'm coming. Is someone gonna pick me up? And I'm getting no response. So I'm already thinking, like, well, it's just whoever just took my money and no one's even gonna be there when I show up. And I was like, well, if that's the case, I'll figure it out. I'll just start asking. Does someone have a boat? Because someone take me to their orangutans? Like, I'll figure it out. Um, and then all the way through, like plain lands, and I'm like documenting this in my stories too online. I'm like, yeah, I don't know, like no one's answering, not sure who's gonna meet me, not sure if anyone's on people like, dude, why do you do this? Like, what is wrong with this?

SPEAKER_04: 2:40:14

That's the thrill. That's what you live for.

SPEAKER_00: 2:40:15

Why are you going? Well, it's not, it's not the the thrill. It's like I want to go see the writing tank, so I'm gonna take the risk. Okay, you know what I mean? It's just a lot of risk to do these things, but I want to go.

SPEAKER_04: 2:40:26

Your problem is you don't have the risk versus reward compass in you.

SPEAKER_00: 2:40:31

You're just like all the risk is worth the reward. Like, yeah, there's I want the reward no matter what. Like, I'm getting what I want no matter what. For sure, you know. Okay, yeah, maybe that's what it is. So it ended up being the fucking coolest thing ever. I show, I show up. Yeah, there's a girl there at the sign with my name, walks me like through the town. I get to this boat. It's this huge like ship all to myself. There's five staff, all just there to help me to cook for me and guide me, and the captain and the whatever for like a quarter of what it was gonna be through any other thing, staying in like hotels and with groups of people and whatever. It's all me, all private, like catered to me. It was the coolest experience ever. There's like all like the crocs everywhere in the river. I'm like hiking with the orangutans. I did a night walk. I don't even know if you know this as a thing. I didn't. I did a night walk with this like biologist or whatever. The forest glows in no glows in the dark. So there's these glow-in-the-dark mushrooms, and after it rains, the spores go all over everything. It's fucking avatar. I sat there in the dark looking around at the whole forest glowing like the movie Avatar. That's what it was based on. The movie was based off of this. No.

SPEAKER_01: 2:41:50

Fuck.

SPEAKER_00: 2:41:51

No, and I had tears just literally like streaming down my face. It was the most beautiful fucking thing. You can Google it though. You can Google it. You got to go live in Avatar? I got to go live in Avatar, in the Borneo jungle, in the like this random, like thing.

SPEAKER_04: 2:42:08

Huge Avatar forest.

SPEAKER_00: 2:42:09

I had no idea. So you can actually like, yeah, you can Google it. There's a big forest in India that's famous for it, and then these ones in Indonesia. I didn't know, I had no idea this was even a thing. And so I'm sitting in it looking around, and like it's fucking, it's literally Avatar and it's glowing. I did keep like a little twig and a little stick and a leaf. And when I got back, I took a picture of it. I'm like, look, the stick is glowing, the stick is glowing. Everyone's like, oh, a glow stick. And I was like, oh yeah. But it was just the most beautiful thing. Because like, you know, us being like a hunter in a nature, like we'd have such a connection to nature. That I was just standing there with tears. Like, not like sobbing, it was just so beautiful. Tears were just rolling down my face. And I was just like, this is fucking absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_04: 2:42:52

And you you'll never experience this live in some just awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 2:42:56

And it's a fluke, too, though. Like you can't plan to go do this because it's when the right stuff in the air. It's like um with the phosphorescence in the water. Yeah, right. Like we have that on where I live on Vancouver Island, but you can't just go out there and see it. It's just got to be the right place at the right time for it to all come together and it happened to be the right place. So this, these things that I get to experience and these incredible things, like the tribe making me the cake and the literally in the middle of Avatar and like all these things. If I didn't take these risks and just have faith that it's gonna work out, I wouldn't have all these amazing, incredible experiences.

SPEAKER_04: 2:43:33

I respect it. I there's not uh there's not many people where I've ever been like, damn, like good for you're one of them. Thank you. You were one of them that to be able to overcome. I'm sure we didn't even scratch the surface. No, we didn't. I could tell there this is just what you wanted to share. I'm sure there are. I don't mean to say that like a joking way, but I could yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:43:57

Well, I don't see it that way either, as like a overcome, like I just don't see it. I don't know. It's not like oh I had this like hard life and blah blah, but look at her now. It's just like tough times build tough people. Okay, you know, the way I see it.

SPEAKER_04: 2:44:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:44:11

I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 2:44:12

You've got to be a pretty tough person to want to book a hunt or book a trip to Congo Congo and get in a van that has candy written on the side of it.

SPEAKER_00: 2:44:21

Literally. Yeah, free candy. That was like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:44:24

Free tribe visits.

SPEAKER_00: 2:44:25

I do what I can. Like I know these people can't fucking help me, but I will when I I've gotten very good at picking up on signs and so that I'm very aware of my surroundings. That's a skill. Share my location. Just I mean, if they take me, they fucking take me. And there's nothing that person on the phone can do, but at least someone knows that happened and they can reach out and start with at least as I'm not just out there, and if this happens at that moment, no one knew.

SPEAKER_04: 2:44:53

And I'm sure a lot of people are listening, like, this chick is batshit crazy, she is out of her mind.

SPEAKER_00: 2:44:58

But I love my life, it's fucking unreal. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_04: 2:45:04

How many people get to see say that though? But every adventure you're learning, because I've not I haven't been fortunate enough to travel your experiences, but I have traveled and I've I've been in some shit. But every time that you experience these things, you're learning, and then you're picking up on body language, yeah, you're picking up on communication, how people are watching, how they're staring, where everyone's looking, the atmosphere, the vibe. These are all things that you learn from traveling. Even here in the States, if you people travel enough, you'll just high stress situations and all the things you pick up. How to de-escalate situations, when to read a room. Okay, we hey, we need to get out of here. Hey, we might want to not stay here tonight. And I'm sure you've learned so many of these little micro skills that just eventually they build and then they add. So, like next time you're like, maybe I'm not gonna drink a mushroom drink on the beaches in Thailand.

SPEAKER_00: 2:45:58

Yeah, I mean, you know what? I probably would, but I would make sure somebody's with it.

unknown: 2:46:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:46:05

In all honesty, yeah. I I actually did go to Thailand last year and did mushrooms. Funny enough. But my girlfriend was with me. Oh my god. A couple of my friends are with me when I was in Indonesia. I went and met a couple of friends in Thailand and we did mushrooms on the beach. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 2:46:19

Good for you. I uh let's see what we're at because I know you got a flight.

SPEAKER_00: 2:46:24

Four o'clock. So yeah, we're good.

SPEAKER_04: 2:46:26

Yeah, we can wrap this up here. I am super glad for this conversation. I could talk to you for days.

SPEAKER_00: 2:46:32

Dude, I have so many uh stories coming back. Come back anytime. Yeah. Next time by the time I come back, there'll be like eight more countries, and who knows what more stories.

SPEAKER_04: 2:46:42

I'm sure you're gonna be another request because I can always there's certain guests and people are like, bring them back on. And I oh yeah, and I'm sure you're gonna be one of them. Just because people I'm not speaking for like all of Americans, but we live these very safe, sheltered, in a bar, privileged cookie-cutter lives. And that's been one of my biggest things as I've grown this family, and that and you know, my years of in the military and getting sent all over the world and being able to experience shit. I come back here and I'm like, this uh there's so much, and this is there's so much here in the United States to be able to experience. That's what we want to do with our kids. But I'm like, God, there is a world out there that the majority of Americans, Canadians, they have no idea even exists. I'm with you.

SPEAKER_00: 2:47:34

I want to see it. Oh, I was trying to plan for November. I wanted to do the five stands. Okay, but as like travel. I was gonna ask you that if you've been. Because I've gone to places hunting, and it's like you just get off the plane and you go straight out to the mountain, and you're not experiencing the so I want to do the five stands and then also Afghanistan and Pakistan. So I've been trying to organize that trip as like one next.

SPEAKER_04: 2:47:59

I've had this urge, this itch to go back to Afghanistan on the civilians. I mean, I was there as a civilian contractor, so but we're in Kabul the whole time.

SPEAKER_00: 2:48:10

We're freaking exactly, and there's such cool histories.

SPEAKER_04: 2:48:13

Mountains are there in the mountains and like unreal in the valleys, and all these guys are gonna be like, Yeah, last time I was there, I was getting fucking blown up. But so that's the whole country's changed a lot, too. I'm seeing these American backpackers now. I'm like, oh my god, like you're gonna end up on Al Jazeer television.

SPEAKER_00: 2:48:30

Well, you do have to go each city you get into, you have to go into the Taliban office and register in each city and whatever, but like, and there is risk of three people from Spain were murdered last year, tourists. Um, but it's a pretty like beautiful place to explore and talk about it.

SPEAKER_04: 2:48:47

If they have my name on file there, they'd be like checking, they'd be like, oh, being yeah, motherfucker, like he used to work here.

SPEAKER_00: 2:48:55

So I was yeah, I was trying to plan that one for next month, but the the temperature dropped significantly in November, and I want to like enjoy it, so I think I'll save that one for for next spring. But I've got a few things in the pipeline.

SPEAKER_04: 2:49:09

I appreciate this conversation. I know you're rolling through town real quick and I snatched you up real fast. I had no idea where this conversation was gonna go.

SPEAKER_00: 2:49:17

I didn't either.

SPEAKER_04: 2:49:18

Well, because you just like shock and blasted this bio to me, and um, I literally was like this morning with the wife. I'm like, I read it to her. I'm like, I don't know where to go with this conversation. There's so much, you know, because normally I have like a cop or a vet or correction. Somebody so I'm like, okay, cool, let's pick apart your career, pick apart, oh, you got blown up, you got shot, whatever. But you, it was just like wild chaos. You are the definition of wild chaos for sure, and I appreciate that because I mean I don't live to your extent of just being able to be that free life yet, but I respect it because uh I've gone places and I have seen things where we were like and you end up in back alleys and in in someone's home that just opened it up and then they're they're putting a whole entire I mean, dude, I've been they have nothing and they're giving you everything. Everything. And I learned this early on in my military in Iraq. I there was this house. This was one of those aha moments for me, like, oh, these people aren't all just terrorists, and you know, everything we've been fed our whole entire lives in the Middle East, Middle East. There was this house, and we had an our AO, which was area of operation, and at the very end of it, there was this palm groves, we had all these dates, and then there was like these little rice patty fields, and you had to walk across these little aqueduct paths to get to this house all by themselves. And we would go down there, and I remember I my first interaction with this guy, he sits me down, or we're sitting on the front, and he yells at his wife, just starts screaming at her, and she just runs inside. And he's like, sit, sit, sit. And then she comes out a minute later and she's got the whole like this plate of chai tea and all this stuff, and then he starts mixing it, and I'm sitting there and I'm sipping, I'm dropping all my gear, and all my guys were all just chilling. And she comes out like 20 minutes later with this sterling silver platter, like it was all engraved and just be you could tell it's been handed down, and it had just this whole entire buffet on it. And this dude and I sat there and we talked with my terp. Yeah, and he was just telling me how their life was and the struggles, and I I'm just this kid, and I'm experiencing this, and it was like our little kept secret for our team because I didn't want anybody fucking with this guy. There were he was just a good family, and he would tell me, Hey, they're moving across the rivers at night, like because we were right, he was right on the Euphrates River, was like his front yard. And he would tell us these things, and I'd uh ask him, I'm like, What do you need? He's like, We did I could use water, fresh, clean water. So we would go and visit him, and I'd have all my guys carry cases of water, and this dude would give us the world, yeah, everything that he had. She's out there with the bread, and she's put it in the oven and the milk from their goats, and it I'm just like, bro, this guy has this is the most primitive living, yeah, and he's giving us everything. And so that was like the pure that's how I would expect pure no angles, there's nothing in return. This and here we are, these foreign enemy in their country, destroying everything, just putting bullets in everything, just because it's fun. And here, this dude is like, dude, come sit down. Like, it here, here's my family, and his children are sitting with us, like they get a soccer ball cut. My guys are kicking the soccer ball around the front yard, and we just would sit with this guy and talk. And so that to me was like, Okay, just because we paint a picture of a race, a country, an ethnicity, whatever it may be, there are incredible people buried into that.

SPEAKER_00: 2:52:48

I feel that very strongly with the tribes. Like, people be like, Oh, you want to go live with these like primitive people? I'm like, primitive, they are the definition of what it means to be a human, as like Homo sapiens, as like the animal that we are, like on this earth. Because when shit goes down, which it's gonna, and we all get wiped out, they're gonna be the ones that continue on the human race. Like they're the true meaning's change in thousands of years. To be human. We are the parasites that have it all backwards and fucked up.

SPEAKER_04: 2:53:20

We're the ones that are raping and pillaging our soils, the our resources, and here they are in the jungle, and they got a fruit tree that they pick from this one, they got a food source over here, they got a little fish trap that they go and check.

SPEAKER_00: 2:53:31

And one of the tribes in the Congo, I asked, like, what is your traditions like when a boy becomes a man? They're like, Oh, we kick him out into the jungle for a month, he has to survive for a month, and then he comes back, he's a man. I'm like, Oh, like at how old? Like 16, 17? They're like, no, 10. At the oldest 10. At 10 years old. They're just like and he can survive a 10-year-old here. My son's 19, he wouldn't last two days in the fucking jungle.

SPEAKER_04: 2:53:54

The 10-year-old can't even last without an iPad.

SPEAKER_00: 2:53:56

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:53:56

Here, this kid's out here setting snares and surviving at 10. Yeah, just shows you. I I'm I'm very envious of what you've been able to experience just because I've got a little taste of it and I know how incredible it is, and you just get to live this life.

SPEAKER_00: 2:54:09

I think everybody, everybody should go at least once and stay with a tribe.

SPEAKER_04: 2:54:14

I I'm I'm going to pick your brain up. We're gonna have a conversation once you get home.

SPEAKER_00: 2:54:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:54:19

I want us, I want to do something along the lines of the family.

SPEAKER_00: 2:54:23

Safe, really great ones you can go to. Indonesia was just ugh incredible.

SPEAKER_04: 2:54:28

How big were orangutans in in real life? They're big.

SPEAKER_00: 2:54:32

Like the big males are hundreds of pounds, right? Big, yeah. The strength and the big pads and the face, like that's just wild. And they've got those probuscous monkeys. Is that what the probosculus with the dick face? Oh, the big nose thing that comes out there, and those are endemic to their so you see those, and like just the wildlife I've seen is like yeah, super cool.

SPEAKER_04: 2:54:55

Thank you for this conversation. I would have you back anytime.

SPEAKER_02: 2:54:59

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04: 2:55:00

I would love to now that I know that you're I didn't know how in depth into the tribes you were, that I wanted, I think we're gonna focus. If you uh if I ever get the opportunity to have you back on, I would love to just talk tribes. All right, perfect. Well, thank you very much very much.

SPEAKER_00: 2:55:14

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_04: 2:55:15

I honestly this was incredible.

SPEAKER_00: 2:55:17

Yeah, I'm glad we're able to fit it in. Yeah, you are quite the story.

SPEAKER_04: 2:55:23

You are a fascinating person. I mean that in the most respectful, humble way that you can.

SPEAKER_00: 2:55:28

I didn't think so. I was like talking.