#88 - Surviving Psychological Warfare: His Untold Story of Weaponized Manipulation & Triumph w/Matthew Sidwell

Episode 88 of The Wild Chaos Podcast pulls you straight into the kind of story people only talk about behind closed doors. This isn’t a highlight reel or a sanitized interview — it’s a raw, unfiltered walk through the moments that change a man forever.

Watch the full episode #88 here on YouTube: https://youtu.be/5c7ESGgxVoY

In this episode, we sit down and unpack the real story behind Matthew’s life, starting with the chaos he grew up in and the deep emotional wounds created by his stepmom. This wasn’t normal discipline. It wasn’t “tough love.” It was psychological warfare inside his own home — isolation, control, manipulation, and a level of emotional abuse that shaped the way he viewed himself for years.

We dig into:

• How early trauma rewires a kid’s identity before they even know what’s happening
• The pressure of trying to survive in a home where love is conditional
• The way his stepmom’s behavior created lifelong scars he didn’t recognize until adulthood
• How those wounds followed him into relationships, work, and fatherhood
• The internal battle between protecting yourself and trying to belong
• How he finally broke the cycle and rebuilt the parts of himself that were damaged

From there, the conversation shifts into the challenges he faced later in life — the job, the stress, the moments that pushed him to his breaking point, and the reality of carrying childhood trauma into high-pressure adult situations. We talk about the coping mechanisms, the emotional shutdown, the slow process of rebuilding a sense of worth, and the moment he realized he wasn’t broken — he was conditioned.

This isn’t a victim story. It’s a transformation story.

If you’ve ever dealt with childhood trauma, toxic parenting, emotional manipulation, or the long-term fallout of being raised in a dysfunctional home — this episode is going to hit hard and hit real.

No filters. No sugar-coating. Just truth.

🎧 Episode 88 is now streaming on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and everywhere you listen.
👉 Subscribe for more raw, real conversations that cut deep.

Follow and support Matthews journey at: Instagram @sidwell.fitness and on YouTube at www.youtube.com/@RainBringsGrowthPodcast

Chapters

• 0:00 The Secret Abuse Revealed
• 9:55 Faith Lost, Coincidences, Faith Found
• 18:30 The Stepchild Prison: Starved And Controlled
• 32:45 Knife Attack And The Manufactured Alibi
• 45:10 Planting Drugs, Burning Trust, Isolation
• 1:01:20 Divorce, Distance, And A Second Chance
• 1:15:40 Processing Trauma And Rebuilding With Dad
• 1:28:00 Entering Corrections: Culture Shock
• 1:45:30 Prison Politics, Gangs, And Respect
• 2:04:20 Race Wars, OC Spray, And Control Doors
• 2:22:10 Transport Life: Hospitals, Buses, Escapes
• 2:37:40 Women’s Runs, Hygiene, And Hard Truths
• 2:49:30 Dark Calls: Suicide On Shift

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Hold on. Your stepmom made you wipe your head that's bloodied on your bed to go with the story that she's gonna tell the cops so she didn't get in trouble for cutting you open with a knife.

SPEAKER_00: 0:10

Yeah. She grabs a knife and cuts my head open twice, and there's blood going everywhere. She's like, no one loves you. Your mom doesn't want you, your dad doesn't want you. Tell your dad you hate him. You need to go to school and tell him that your dad didn't. Her punishments would be like, you're not eating dinner tonight. I'd be maybe getting like one meal a day if that. We would go out to eat, and I'd have to just refuse to eat. I don't get a play, I don't get to go outside. She would beat me. She's like, life would be better if you just killed yourself. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_04: 0:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 0:34

It was just me and her, man.

SPEAKER_02: 0:54

Dude, Matthew. What do you go, Iz?

SPEAKER_00: 0:57

It's Matt. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 0:58

All right. Matt. Welcome to the show, dude. We got some stuff to cover. You are um quite an interesting dude. You come recommended by Kyle and a few other dudes that uh you used to work with in the correctional facility.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11

Yeah, you're a father of four.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15

Devout husband and Christian. You go to Rock Harbor. You've done a lot of things. You're an outdoorsman, you have a podcast. Rain brings growth. And so you're here local as well. And you're just kind of in the world of a lot of people that I know. And I think we've been going back and forth for quite a while now. And uh so things finally lined up. You just got off the mountain, and here we are. So let's just dive right into it, dude. We're just gonna have just a real raw conversation. And uh, I want to know about the correctional facility, which we'll get to because it is a fascinating world. It's one of those things to me. I can't get enough of it. It's like hoarders and weird, like I guess it's like the murder mysteries for women, but it's corrections for me because I feel it is one of our most corrupt, along with everything else in our government and states run programs. It's so corrupt to me of how it's run, and it's doing more harm than it is good. So I love sitting down with correctional officers to get your guys' point of view. And you could obviously educate me on questions that I'll have in the system and how it's run. But yeah, dude, let's just dive right into this. And uh, so where are you from?

SPEAKER_00: 2:20

Originally I was born in Utah. What part? Um, I was born in West Valley and I grew up in South Jordan.

SPEAKER_02: 2:25

Oh, okay. Yeah. Are you LD and you're not LDS anymore? Did you grow up LDS?

SPEAKER_00: 2:28

Yeah, I was I was born or I was raised LDS, uh, baptized at 8 and all that good stuff. But I mean, outside of really just going to church on Sundays, like it wasn't really Mormon. Like we didn't really do Bible study, like I don't know. It just it was kind of more like a checklist kind of thing rather than so I never really got into it, which I guess is good for me because I don't like if you ask me anything about the Mormon religion, I can't tell you much. Like I never studied it. I know they got Joseph Smith and their couple of different views on Jesus and brothers and Satan and stuff. I don't know. It's weird stuff. So I just I'm glad I never got into it. So now I can like now that I'm getting into it, I can learn the correct way, you know. For sure not to relearn weird stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 3:12

For sure. What you say you're getting into? I mean, you said you were at Rock Harbor when we were bullshitting, so you go to Rock Harbor. Are you getting back into the LDS community or just learning about it?

SPEAKER_00: 3:20

No, yeah, no. Um I just came back to faith probably like about a year and a half ago. Awesome, man. You too. Yeah, yeah. So it's it's a new walk for me, but it's been really good. I am learning about the LDS church just from some of the podcast guests that I had on that were LDS, and then they're informing me of like the craziness.

SPEAKER_02: 3:37

It's it's fascinating. We had an LDS member on, and he hit us up afterward to not air the episode because he was worried the backlash that his family was gonna give him for outing the LDS community. And I'm like, that just shows you that there's something wrong with that. I hate even say I guess religion, we'll call it a religion, but if you're going to leave it, you're immediately shunned and disowned. And like I have a buddy that his youngest daughter was like his best friend, like hunting buddies, like that was his little ride or die. She did her mission and he had walked away from the church, like, hey, it's too culty for us, but do you?

SPEAKER_00: 4:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 4:15

I respect whatever decisions, whatever you want to follow, do it. She goes on her mission and came back, and she's like, dude, won't even speak to him, no contact, completely disowned him. And like when she left, they were best friends, so like nothing happened during that time. And then she comes back and he's like, This is why we left the church because of this. Right. And it's a very fascinating thing. My first ever experience to LDS was on a hunting trip when this guy came with us as a friend of a friend, and we had eaten some edibles on the mountain, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_03: 4:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 4:47

And this dude has a full meltdown. Like, he he was crying like I have never seen a man ever cry before. Like the like it just came out of him. And I'm sobbing, gasping for air, like it's just snot. I I'm sitting there like, what the f like, yeah, not in the right state of mind for this. And it came out like all this shit that the that the what was going on inside the church, inside the actual church itself, and these brothers and deacon, whatever they have going on in there, what was going on to these young boys, and he was part of this whole entire thing. And I was like, I was like, that's interesting. Which I'm not pointing throwing shade on any religion, they're all fucked. This is why I have a relationship with God and do not follow a religion. And so, but yeah, that's a very that's why when you said you grew up in salt. Like I always gotta ask, you know, because it's such a fascinating religion to me.

SPEAKER_00: 5:41

Yeah, it goes together. I mean, makes it easy, easy put together, right?

SPEAKER_02: 5:46

So yeah. What brought you back to faith?

SPEAKER_00: 5:50

And I just had too many coincidences happening that I was like, all right, maybe there is a God. Like it wasn't I stopped believing in a God when I was a kid after going through all the childhood stuff that I went through, and I was like, there's no way that like there's a God after everything I've been through, man. Like you tell me that there's a plan, uh and I just had too many coincidences happen, like crazy stuff, and then like all right, let's let's look back into this.

SPEAKER_02: 6:13

What kind of coincidences?

SPEAKER_00: 6:16

Um, well, I mean, the biggest one was I guess I mean, I don't know how you want to go about this, but like I had a lot of childhood trauma that I went through. Yeah, and then which I can get into, but um pretty much it was my stepmom good doing everything like behind my dad's back. It was crazy. My dad never knew anything would happen, and I never told anybody after. I was just like, I'm sweeping this under the rug. Um it just you know went on with my adult life pretty much. Well, it happened at they got divorced at like four when I was 14-ish. And uh I just swept it on the rug. I was like, I'm done, man. It's it's I'm you know, not want to talk about it, whatever. Um, but then just things kept popping up in my life, it would creep in, and I was like just kept sweeping on the rug. Um and I started in like 2023, I started getting in shape, and then I wanted to like change my life. So then I hired a mentor too that I just happened to meet at a birth kid at a kid's birthday party. Okay. And uh so we met for coffee and I took him on as my coach, and we go into a deep dive section session like the next week, and oh man, there's so many parts I'm missing on this thing. That's the hard part, is like there's so many coincidences that line have to line this up. Like, because I the way that I went yeah, it's just hard to I miss so much, but I went. I mean, this all started from like a hunting trip. Like so I went, my dad and I go hunting up in the Trinities. I go out to this one point and I see this truck that I wanted to send some mules from. I was like, damn it, there's already a dude here. Long story short, we talk to him, he's also in law enforcement, he's a probation parole officer. Okay, start talking, he's also from Nampa, so then we're like, oh, let's go on a couple more hunts together. Like, you know, you need a partner, I need a partner, cool. We become friends. This is in 2020. Um, go on hunts for a couple years. In 2023, the same year that I started this whole change and everything, he got married. He's like, Hey, why don't you come to my wedding? I was like, all right, cool. And that was on a Saturday. But the Friday before that, I had a meeting with my mentor, and he's he's like, I know you've mentioned some stuff about your stepmom. Um, let's talk about this because if you need to get more successful in the future, we need to you know solve whatever's from your past. I was like, nah, dude, I'm not talking about it. Like, it's done, it's under the rug, I'm good, right? So I go to the wedding the next day. It's an outdoor wedding, it's over in Emminate or something. It's like 110 degrees, man. So they're just rushing it. But the bride's gonna walk out out from the barn, and then there's um a parking lot right next to the barn. And so everybody's looking back, and I see this chick start to walk in the parking lot. And I look and I was like, oh my gosh, this is my stepmom from like 15 years prior, right? Haven't seen her a day. She's at the wedding? The day after I say I'm done talking about it, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna talk about my stepmom or whatever. The day after she shows up, she shows up, and I'm like starting to freak out. Like, my wife's holding my hand, she's like, What's wrong? And I'm like, It's my stepmom. Like, and she's like, What? And I was like, My stepmom from like my childhood, and I'm just like freaking out. Luckily, they it was like 110 degrees, so they made it quick. It was like 10-minute wedding, perfect. So then I go to the car, I call my mentor, and I was like, dude, like this is crazy. I just told you yesterday I don't want to talk about it, but like my stepmom's here, man. I don't know what to do. He's like, Well, you can, you know, make a scene if you want, like it's your call, but then you just let her know that you've been thinking about her this whole time and she wins, right? Or I mean, you know, you can be the bigger person and take this as like a learning point, and maybe you need to confront this stuff. And I was like, dang. This is like that cow in the buffalo situation, like you can run from the storm or you can go into it, but it's gonna catch up with you either way.

SPEAKER_02: 10:01

100%.

SPEAKER_00: 10:02

And so that was like the big one where I was like, dang, this isn't a like I gotta start looking into something. Like, this can't just be a coincidence. And it still took me another year before I went to church, but I started looking into it at that point. I was like, I just like how many things had to line up, like meeting a random dude in the middle of the woods three years prior. And then the funny part was at the wedding, I go up to my buddy and I was like, Hey dude, how do you know that chick? And he's like, I have no clue, man. I don't know who she is. And he asked his wife, his wife's like, Oh, I've been doing her hair for like three years, and I was like, Oh my gosh, this is crazy. And so I talked to the wife a little bit later on, and she's like, She has told me everything about her life and her first husband, and she said she was divorced, but she never mentioned she had a stepkid and nothing, and then um we made eye contact, me and the stepmom.

SPEAKER_02: 10:52

Did she recognize you?

SPEAKER_00: 10:53

Yeah, so I go to the bathroom, there's like a line, there's like an outhouse bathroom, whatever, standing in the bathroom line, and she leaves early, and the car has to go right by it, and she rolls down her window, she's like, Hey Matt, is that you? And I was like, Yeah, what's up, or whatever. Like, she's like, Oh, I just want to say hi, and then she just left. And then uh I was like, I was just like not gonna make a scene or anything, right? And that was about as much as we talked, and uh, so then I follow up with my buddy's wife, and he's like, I've never seen that chick again. She stopped coming to me. Like, talk about a guilty conscience, no shit, yeah. So she's never seen her again, and she was like a loyal customer for three years, and then after that date, she stopped.

SPEAKER_02: 11:37

So we call that in our house, we call that god shit. Yeah. When things happen that you cannot explain, but they happen for a reason, yeah. And it puts you in a position or it puts you in a place at the right time, and there's no explaining it. And it happened, so it's like this thing in our house where it's like similar situations where you cross paths and meet some dude from and it leads to something, and and we're just like, how? And it's like there's no explaining it. And so, yeah, the wife's always like, That's god shit, see? Like, see? And we're like, ah, there's no other way of explaining it of how that would have happened. I guess let's dive into it, dude. Let's dive into the childhood stuff of growing up with so it was your grand or your stepmom that you had the problems with a child. Okay, let's dive into it.

SPEAKER_00: 12:25

My parents divorced when I was two. Um, pretty nasty divorce, from what I've been told. Um I lived with my mom, I think, from like two to five. My dad got custody of me when I was five. Okay. Um, he ended up marrying the chick that ran the daycare, which became my stepmom. That's how I meant. Um, she was like 20 years older than my dad. So I don't know if he had like a cougar thing going on or dad married up 20 years. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 12:55

Okay, that's not normal.

SPEAKER_00: 12:56

Yeah. So uh yeah, she was like 20 years older than she had four kids, they were all grown. I think she might have had one that was like 17 or 18. Okay. Barely almost graduating high school, but um, which I will I'll say like a caveat right away, like her kids were all nice to me. Like it was great. Like I'll never have any problem with them. Um but yeah, so so it's probably like yeah, I was like five when they got married. Went lived with my dad in first grade, went to kindergarten with my mom in my mom's house, first grade, lived with my dad, and it was probably about second grade when like things started to go awry with my stepmom. She uh she started just you know talking kind of bad about my dad to me and like trying to brainwash me like against my dad and like just saying I can't remember exactly what it was, but I remember the point where it was like she was wanting me to take her side because my dad was mean to her or something, and she's like, if you don't respect me, then and you take his side, then we can't be friends or something. Whatever it was like for a five or six year old, or yeah, seven at that point, I guess, right? Yep. So she's like, if you like me, then you need to like just you know, not be nice to your dad or something, right?

SPEAKER_02: 14:12

Oh, so she's trying to turn it.

SPEAKER_00: 14:13

She's like, try, yeah. Yeah. And my dad worked really hard, and he was uh he was a salesman, he would leave early, come home late. A lot of times I wouldn't see him like during the weekdays. So it was just me and her a lot. Like we were I was the only kid, I was the only child growing up. Okay. It was just me and her. So a lot of time together, I think maybe you know, maybe we grew we had a bond for a little while, right? So then I maybe I felt for her, and then so yeah, I started like slowly turning against my dad, and then it became to a point where she would like up it, and she like tell me to say mean things with my dad. And then I wouldn't want to, and then I started getting punished if I didn't. Oh, she's punishing you. Yeah. Like um, probably from that point on, she would be like, You're grounded or something, you can't go outside and play. We had a 40-foot inground pool in our backyard, and she would just be like, You can't go swimming, or like if it started small, it would just seem like I was grounded, right? And then it kept getting worse and worse, and then her punishments would be like, You're not eating dinner tonight. And my dad's gone, and she's like, It's my word against yours, who do you think is gonna be, right? And uh so then I would I there was times where I wouldn't eat dinner. Like, and this is like starting in second grade. And then uh she started like getting a little bit more and more like when my dad would be gone, more abusive. Like then she started hitting me.

SPEAKER_02: 15:47

Oh, then it turned physical.

SPEAKER_00: 15:48

It turned physical, yeah. So then she's like would tell me to say more things like tell your dad you hate him. And if you don't, I'm gonna beat you, or you're gonna pay the consequence, right? Which meant like I was gonna get beat or not eat. So shit. Yeah. Um my dad was gone a lot, so like just working trying to provide for the family. And uh so I was like, it was just me and her, man. And uh, you know, then it just kept getting a little bit worse and a little bit worse, and pretty soon my dad's and I relationship just stopped. Like he hired people to come into the house for counselors and stuff, but she wouldn't let she would like say, if you s ever say anything that I'm doing, I'm gonna make sure that they know you're lying, and then the repercussions are gonna be even worse, right?

SPEAKER_02: 16:38

So she's full on mind manipulating you at this point. And you're just a child, so you have no idea what's going on.

SPEAKER_00: 16:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 16:46

You're just trying to adapt to the the changing situation.

SPEAKER_00: 16:50

I think she's also and she's also telling me, too, that my mom hates me, and so I stopped seeing my mom at that point, too. I didn't want to go see my mom because she's telling me all this stuff. So I stopped going to see my mom on the weekends, or when I would go over there on the weekends when like it was forced, my mom would like want to see me and stuff. She would uh you know, she's like, Your mom's saying this stuff, so if you make it like a good weekend for her, like that's not right because your mom hates you. Your mom, your mom just wants you so that she doesn't have to pay child support to your dad.

unknown: 17:21

Damn.

SPEAKER_00: 17:22

And your dad, and then she would tell me, like, my dad only wants me because she doesn't want to pay child support to my mom. So then it's just, you know, just this whole time. Yeah. And then um in third grade, it just kept getting worse, man. Like, she uh she's like, You need to go to school. I remember this one day, she's like, You need to go to school and tell them that your dad's abusing you.

SPEAKER_02: 17:44

She's telling you to go to school and say this? Yeah. And your poor dad has no idea.

SPEAKER_00: 17:48

Yeah, and we have like in-house counselors coming to the house and trying to figure stuff out. I know later I talked to my dad, or my dad would tell me too, he's like, I spent like over$100,000 in counseling for sure. And this was back in like the 90s or early 2000s, right? So we so yeah, I go to the school and I told him like my dad's abusing me because otherwise I was just gonna get beaten or whatever. We're starved. My dad was going to Alaska too, like for um you know, trips and stuff. So there'd be days, there'd be a lot of times where he'd be gone for like a week, and I'd be maybe getting like one meal a day if that. So Damn man. Yeah. So then uh so anyway, I go to school, I told him that. Of course, they launch an investigation, cops come to our house, everything. Obviously, they don't find anything, right? They're like clear, but now whatever I tell my dad is gonna think I'm a liar.

SPEAKER_03: 18:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 18:44

And now I've lost trust with everybody. So now if I tell anybody at schools, they know that I've lied before on this.

SPEAKER_03: 18:50

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02: 18:52

Um So that's a pretty lonely situation because now you just burned any resource at as a child.

SPEAKER_00: 18:59

Yeah. So I don't have any friends. I don't get to go outside. I don't get to play, like it was just the only time that I ever got was my dad always made sure he signed me up for baseball and he signed me up for football. How long did this go on? Uh in total it started in second grade and didn't end until they got divorced when I was in ninth grade. It just got progressively worse. Like way worse stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 19:24

And your dad never caught on to this?

SPEAKER_00: 19:27

Which I will say, like, she's a great master manipulator. Oh, for sure. Like I and that's the thing, like I never until like I think last year when I came back from my PontiGun hunt, like I released my episode. It took me eight episodes on my podcast before I like was people like, you never released yours, and then I was like, fuck, alright. So we come back from the Pontigan hunt, and then I hit release as I'm like driving back to Utah because I didn't want to go through all that.

SPEAKER_02: 19:55

My dad and I did have a pretty good talk while we were in the Pontigons, but Oh, so you got to you guys got to hash things out, obviously.

SPEAKER_00: 20:03

How did it get worse? So still in third grade, I remember there was there were some times like if she would beat me and she would see like any kind of mark on me, she's like, You're not going to school today. So I remember one day we get it was like a morning, I'm supposed to be going to school, and we lived close enough that I just walked. And we get in some kind of argument. My dad's not there, and she's like, You're not going to school, and I'm like, I'm leaving. I'm going to school. So I start to go out the front door. She's in the kitchen, she grabs a knife and cuts my head open twice, and there's blood going everywhere. Cut your head? Yeah. Yeah. So I don't my hair's a little long right now, but you can't see it. But yeah, there's like two scars on top of my head.

SPEAKER_02: 20:43

She like smacked you or cut you with the knife?

SPEAKER_00: 20:45

Yeah, like like smacked, yeah. But with a bladed side. Yeah. I don't know if she meant to like flip it or whatever, or maybe she crazy, right? So we got this long hallway and there's a rotunda in the middle, and she's coming from the the kitchen, and I don't know if she pushed me or how, but I got down on the ground and then she smacked me twice on top of the head, blood goes everywhere, all over the tile in the area, right?

SPEAKER_01: 21:08

She starts freaking out, and she's like, Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. I swear if you know you just tell the cops and everything that you hit your head on the bed or whatever, like it's gonna change.

SPEAKER_00: 21:21

You can start being a normal kid, you can go have friends, you can have fun, you could be you can be good. Like, that's what she said, like you can be good, like because I hated being bad to my dad and my grandparents and everybody, right? Like I had to be mean to everybody. So she's like holy shit.

SPEAKER_04: 21:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:34

So she's like, if you don't tell them, I swear it'll be fine. And uh I was like, sure, yeah, whatever. This is around like Thanksgiving time. She's like, Christmas will be great. You know, so um she she gets a rag and like cleans up the blood, and then she takes me over to my bed and walks me over to my bedroom, and like I remember leaning over and my putting my head like on my bed, and then that was a story, it was uh I had a tantrum and I hit my head on the on the bed.

SPEAKER_02: 22:06

She hold on. Your stepmom made you wipe your head that's bloodied on your bed to go with the story that she's gonna tell the cops so she didn't get in trouble for cutting you open with a knife. Yeah, that's how deep she went with this. Yeah, that's a fucking psycho.

SPEAKER_00: 22:25

Yeah. Holy cow paramedics come and uh like they are just asking me, like, what happened? And I'm like, I just hit my head, I had a tantrum, right? And they just kept asking me, man, like this is a slice, right? Not a blunt force. Like they're they know it, they're looking for it. It's not split, it's cut. It's like straight, like easiest stitching. I'm sure whoever did it had to do it, right? It's like done. It's like it's easy lines, man. It's not like a big old jagged rip or tear or anything. Yeah, so they're like, they're really questioning it, and I'm just sticking to the story. Nope, nope, nope. Uh my dad meets us at the hospital because he was on a sales call. He's like all frantic and stuff, like just crying and stuff, you know. And uh he's like, What happened? And I was like, I just got mad and hit my head, you know. I was just ready for a change, man. I just want to be a kid. I never played outside, never had friends, nothing. Like, like the only time I would ever be a kid was at school, and then I was just known as like a rowdy kid, because that was the only, you know, that was the only time I got to be a kid. Yeah, so you have all this, you it's like a caged dog. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 23:34

And you let it out for five minutes and it just goes buck wild. I mean, you're just getting a little bit of freedom at school.

SPEAKER_00: 23:39

Yeah. Damn. I mean, like two, three weeks later, it was back to normal. Oh, it never changed, huh? It never changed. Yeah, and then it got worse again. It just kept getting worse. Um, I remember going, they would put me in like these homes for the weekend. It was just like for bad kids or whatever, like kind of scare them straight kind of program, or maybe respite or something for like troubled kids or whatever. I would go to those and then I mean, she just kept saying like some really messed up stuff to me over the years, like that she hated me, and she's like, life would be better if you just killed yourself. Like your stepmom's telling you this, yeah, like third, fourth grade.

SPEAKER_02: 24:14

Like it it I think the what bugs me the most is like my kids are that age right now, and they're just like thinking and you look at them as of how you like how could I ever tell this precious child to go kill yourself?

SPEAKER_00: 24:26

Yeah. And like no one loves you, and like your mom doesn't want you, your dad doesn't want you, like, and then and this woman worked at a preschool. She had a daycare, yeah. She had a daycare, she owned the daycare, yeah. Yeah. That's terrifying. Yeah. Holy shit. Um, I mean, this just kept going on, man. I don't even remember like some big events from like the fourth and fifth grade, but it just kind of like all started blur together, man. It just like I remember I didn't have any relationship with my my grandparents because I had to be rude to them. Um, I I wish I had the pictures from my thing where it shows like first grade, second grade, but you can see like when it started, man, in like second grade. Like I never gained any weight, really. We would go out to eat, and I'd have to just refuse to eat. So we're just sitting there eating, and I'm like, I'm not hungry. And it just pissed my dad off. And he's like, You had to refuse in the fact that she's telling you to refuse, or you just like we're gonna go out to eat tonight, but you're not eating. And if you do, like, there's gonna be hell to pay. So I'm just sitting there, we're gonna go in like nice restaurants or whatever, and I'm just like, I'm not hungry. And it's pissing my dad off, and I think maybe that's why she liked it. I don't know. But it would just make him mad. And then she said, The only way that you can eat is if I say, Matt, do you want to eat my leftover food? And then I would eat her food. Or if we did go out to eat, on the days that she was being nice, she's like, You can pick a meal, which meal do you want to eat today? And so, like, usually on Sundays I knew we would go out to eat, so I just eat then or something.

SPEAKER_02: 25:53

But so you're trapped in your own prison for your whole entire childhood.

SPEAKER_00: 25:57

Yeah, man. I mean, there's times where like to this day I won't eat chili, because I remember she used to make like chili and then just put every spice that she could find in it to make it really like hot and spicy, and then she's like, You can eat if you want. Here you go. So to this day, I just don't eat chili. Or like I remember one time she made me some scrambled eggs and put so much salt in it, like it's not even like it came from the Dead Sea.

SPEAKER_02: 26:19

So she's sadistic, she's doing this for pleasure at this point.

SPEAKER_00: 26:23

Yeah, yeah, man. Um I remember one time, like I said, we had a we had a pool in the backyard, right? We always had pool parties, like that was a spot. It's not like Florida or whatever, everybody's got a pool. Like, we were one of the only ones that had an in-ground big pool. So we had a lot of parties at our house, and my room was like right up next to the pool, and she's like, You're not going outside, you're just gonna stay in your room, and you're not, you know. So that was like hard, man. It's felt really lonely, like just just lonely, man. Sure. And then everybody's just looking at me like I'm just some this this bad kid, right? And they're I just gotta keep up with the facade, and then like, yeah, sure, like I got angry, like, so then I just started going with it at some points. Like, you know, it did affect my relationship with my dad later on, sure. Like, we did get in, like, I sure I I'm I know I hit him before, right? And it just really got bad, man. Even my dad did a lot of coaching for me at Little League, and she would say, like, make sure that you're mean to your dad when you're at coaching today, and I'm gonna hear if you're not where like she had so we lived in Utah, and she had a kid up here in Idaho, um, and she started having grandbabies around that time, and she would come up here, and so I just mean me and my dad, and she's like, You need to be bad for your dad, and I'm gonna call and check every night. And if you're not, like when I get back, it's gonna be hell to pay. Because it was usually in summertime, and like so I hated summers. I hated hated Christmas break, hated Thanksgiving break, because that's just me at home.

SPEAKER_02: 27:50

I'm not gonna get a break from her, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:52

And I would eat at school, so at least I would be able to eat at school, right? Yeah, and uh, so it just it just sucked, man. So, but yeah, so she would be going up here to Idaho to see her kids, grandbabies, whatever, and she'd be calling in, checking my dad. She's like, How's Matt? And I'd just be in the background, tell her I'm being bad. He's like, he's like, I mean, he's kind of mouthy, but like we're having a decent time or whatever. I'm like, you're like, Yeah, because you know it's coming home. Yeah, so I'm like always telling him, like, tell her, tell her I'm being bad. He's like, You're not being bad, man.

SPEAKER_01: 28:20

You're being okay. And I'm like, fuck.

SPEAKER_02: 28:22

And you never could you never felt that you could go to your dad and be like, I don't want to act, she's making me do this, like she's telling me to tell you this.

SPEAKER_00: 28:32

I mean, I was just getting beat so much that I was like, Okay, that's you know, third, fourth, all that.

SPEAKER_02: 28:39

Eventually it just becomes part of your life. So then you're just a you just adapt to that.

SPEAKER_00: 28:43

Yeah, so the one of the dates that really sticks out to me is I remember University of Utah was playing Pittsburgh for the Fiesta Bowl. It was in like sixth grade, so I think it was like 2005. And we had we had this finished basement in Utah, it was really nice. My dad's kind of like lounge area made. I had my own room down there. So from the outside looking in, I had it made, man. And that's the hard part. Is like everybody always thought, like, Matt, you have it all.

SPEAKER_01: 29:09

Like, why are you being this way, right?

SPEAKER_00: 29:12

But um, yeah, so it's a fiesta bowl. My dad's watching it downstairs. I'm in my room, and she's like, You need to make it a bad night tonight. I'm like, fuck. So I just start arguing with my dad or whatever. We get into some altercations, and he ends up just calling the cops. We had already had the cops called a couple times on me. And he was just like, disturbing, well, I don't know, disturbing the peace or whatever they do, right? Troubled kids. And I remember it was my my SRO from our elementary school came to our house. I was in sixth grade at that point, and you taught sixth grade as elementary. And I was like, and he comes into my room, I think his name's Officer Winkleman or something like that, and he's like, What's going on, Matt? And I was like, Dude, I'm done. Like, my stepmom is abusing me, and I just I'm done, man. Like, I this has been going on for a long time, and uh At this point, I already had like a reputation for people lying. Or I'm I'm a liar, right? And I just remember my dad and my stepmom like heard that in the other room, and they're like, he's lying, whatever. He's and my dad just took her side, was like, No, he's lying. And then from that point on, my stepmom was like literally telling me, like, I'll get away with whatever. How'd that work out for you trying to tell the cops? Damn. And around the same time, too, it just I mean, I was starting to go into like you know, I think it was like puberty age or whatever, like sixth grade, like you're going through all that kind of stuff. So I'm just like fucking hating life, man. Yeah. And you're changing and developing and growing, and you have I don't think I grew like I don't know. I think I kind of got shunted on like growth for a while. Because like I took a big growth from the end of ninth grade when they got divorced to tenth grade. You can look at those two pictures and you're like, oh shit, this guy bulked up.

SPEAKER_02: 30:54

Yeah, because you were in malnourished the whole entire your whole childhood.

SPEAKER_00: 30:58

Yeah. God, man. Yeah, and then around that same time too, um, she started planning stuff in my room and would tell my dad, like, he's been acting weird and making it like she's like, I don't know if we should like do a room check on him or something.

SPEAKER_01: 31:15

So she's setting you up, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 31:17

So I remember like it first started out with like she would put like jewelry in my room, like her jewelry, and then my dad would go through stuff and be like, What's this, Matt? And of course, like, you know, or was like, that's not mine. I don't like that's what they say, right? But like that's what I was literally saying, like, that's not mine. I don't know where it came from, and I'm already got the reputation for being a liar, so it doesn't look good. Yep. And then she he'd be like, What's this for? Whatever, right? I got really good at reading lips too, because she would tell me what to say, and she would tell me like to say stuff back to him. Like she'd be standing behind him and just like mouthing stuff to say to me, and I would say it for I always had to sit behind her in the car so she could like turn sideways and like speak, and I would like just read her lips and say something to my dad. Um Damn. But yeah, so like I would just be like I I don't know, she would tell me to say something, right? And then like so now he's got a reason for why I stole it. Like I would give him a reason. And then once we got into seventh grade, that was like junior high, and then she started putting like pills and cigarettes and stuff in my backpack, and then be like, he's been acting weird today, maybe we should do a room check, and then he'd check my backpack or something, right? And they'd be in there, or um sometimes it was like in my coat pocket or something, right? And I had no clue, but he would find it. Pills, like sometimes it would be her pills or something. And so then it started making it look like I was going to drugs, and and uh one time I was sitting in class and I got pulled out by like the officer in middle school, and then they take me to their room and they'd empty my backpack and there's stuff in there. And you had no idea. He's like, Where'd this come from, Matt? And I was like, I have no clue, man. Like that's what everybody says, they don't know where it's from, right? So it doesn't matter. At that point I just started going with it, man. They would put me in like in school suspension or after school suspension, and I was like, Cool, because now I'm not going home. Oh, so you started embracing that. I mean, I wasn't like want to embrace it, but I was like, you know what, like this is just my life, right? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02: 33:17

So it's better alternate than going home and dealing with your crazy ass step stepmom.

SPEAKER_00: 33:24

Yeah, yeah. It was it was just like no I had no hope after I told the cops, man. And then they were like, you know, didn't believe me, uh cheating it. Obviously, it didn't help out at all. So around this time, my dad, um, his company was doing pretty good, and we had come back up back and forth to Idaho and to see her kids and stuff, and so then he's like, maybe if we just get Matt out of the state, right, we he can have a new start, new fresh start everywhere, right? So then he's like, we'll open up we'll branch off from my company and we'll have two locations. So then my uncle ran the one in Utah and my dad took Idaho. The problem just came with us in Idaho. Yeah, because she's internal, right? So then we come up here to Idaho and it just kept getting kept getting worse, man. Like cigarettes getting planted on me, um, pills still, like it's remember one time I went to go see my mom one time for Christmas, and I come back, and then my dad finds like this bag of powder on me. Or not on me, but in my room, right? He's like, What is this, Matt? Where'd you get it from? And I had to tell my dad that I got from my mom's house. So then I didn't get to go back to my mom's house for a while and it caused problems.

SPEAKER_02: 34:44

Oh my god. This woman's psycho.

SPEAKER_00: 34:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 34:50

Yeah. And she's just doing this for her own pleasure. Like, she gets nothing out of this besides watching you be tormented.

SPEAKER_00: 34:57

Yeah, man. I mean, she would just love to watch like those lifetime movies of like how to get away with murder and stuff, and she would just tell me, like, I'm just studying.

SPEAKER_02: 35:11

What does she do now?

SPEAKER_00: 35:14

No idea. I mean, I don't think she ever worked after I don't know, I don't know what she did. Like where did it all come to a head?

SPEAKER_02: 35:25

Oh no, there's still more. Holy shit. Damn, your childhood, bro. I feel horrible for you. I mean, it's I'm sure it's shaped who you are now. Yeah that we've you've grown and been able to reflect on this, but like look having a little daughter myself, you know, and you got young kids, it's like yeah. The sad part is this goes on every day in this country.

SPEAKER_00: 35:50

I mean, there's there's way worse that it goes on, but people don't I kept telling myself too during I was like, uh it it's somebody's got it worse than me, right? That's like it was a big thing in Utah when that Elizabeth Smart thing happened. Yeah. So I was like just comparing myself. I was like, oh, I guess I could be kidnapped and raped every night or whatever, right? Like she was getting, you know, so it's like I don't know. I just kept telling myself it could be worse, could be worse, could be worse. But um, yeah, so like Christmases always sucked too, because like uh that was a weird thing. She would let Christmases ride. She's like, have fun, have a good day or whatever, right? Really weird. But then like the next day it was back to normal. And so I knew and then uh so she'd give you a break for the day. Yeah, it was like her one day that she would yeah. And then uh but then all my toys or whatever I would have would get broke, or like I got a cell phone when I was in sixth grade. Um and then my SIM card would go missing, or it would be scratched up somehow, so then I couldn't use a cell phone, but it would still be in there, or just things like that. This is a sadistic person. I got like this guitar hero thing one time for Christmas, and it was like the the neck and the bass like separate so you could put in your backpack. And it was just stopped working one day. I was like, what the heck? And I go to take it apart, and like where the the connections come together, it was like someone just took a nail and just scratched the whole thing up so it couldn't make any connections. But it was like still put together, so you would never know. I was like, dang. But speaking of like the PlayStation, one year uh when the PlayStation 3s first came out, like the fat ones, my dad just happened to be at Walmart or something, and and uh they brought out like a whole palette of them. And so he's making colleges like, hey, do you want one for Christmas? Do you want one? They got them, like right? He called like three people, bought four of them. So I was like, all right, I'll do the math and then I get the third the fourth one right. Um easy. And they wrapped all the stuff. We moved houses um from like across the street. It was kind of cool how it happened. But I go to see my mom for Christmas, come back after Christmas, or like 28th or 29th, whatever, we're gonna have Christmas that night. I come in, it's a late flight. On the way home from the airport, my stepmom's like, You're not opening presents this year. You're gonna refuse to open any presents. I was like, This is new, okay, whatever. Like I didn't at that point I didn't really care because I had never got to play with anything anyway, right? Yeah. So it's like we get home and my dad's like, Oh, let's do Christmas. I'm like, I'm just tired, Dad. I'm not gonna do it tonight. He's like, You don't want to open your Christmas presents? Like, no, we'll do it tomorrow or something. And then the next day I was like, No, I'm not opening them. I'm not opening up, dude. It got to like January 15th, and my dad's just fed up. He just opens a presence in front of me and he's like, I'm taking all this shit back. It was like a brand new PlayStation 3 with like another controller, like five or six of those like EA games or whatever. Like, every like he just loaded it up. He's like, Take this back, I'll just take the money, I don't care. But I was like, and like that's the right thing to do. Like, uh sure. Like as a dad, like you know, I'd probably do the same thing for my kid if they weren't gonna open their stuff and be ungrateful. And like from and that's the thing, like I know that he didn't, I don't the way that I know my dad, he didn't know anything was happening, and I think that's why I didn't say anything for a long time. Just like as a dad, I would feel terrible, and I saw I was like, I don't want my dad to have to live with this. But then it was like if I could share my story and help somebody else, then I'm just gonna spare one person's feelings or help a bunch of people. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, so I didn't have Christmas that year though, so that was uh that was a new one. Damn. Yeah. And then um and then I went to high school the next year, and then that was ninth grade. And uh I got into like out of school suspension, um, just being a bad kid, which So you're you're rebelling at this point, like you're falling, yeah, like getting into the anarchy stage because you've just been pushed so hard your whole entire childhood. Yeah. And the thing that would suck too is on like those um room checks, but he would find like my food stashes, and he's like, if you're not gonna eat with us, you're not gonna eat behind our back. So then I would get my food stash wiped.

SPEAKER_02: 40:00

And he had no idea that your mom's telling you to not eat.

SPEAKER_00: 40:04

Yeah, he just thinks like I'm being rebellious, so he's like, Oh my god. Like I can see his view, right? Like so then that would suck. The one saving grace is that like in high school, I had seminary, which is like the LDS church, whatever. I had that for my third period, which was also the lunch period, and they don't mark for attendance, like it's the separation of church and state, so they don't, you know, they won't report back to the church or the the school. So I just skipped. I never went. And then I would just go to like all three lunches and just eat a shit ton. And then I'll be like, Dad, I need more lunch money. He's like, I just gave you lunch money last week. I was like, I don't know, I think someone's probably got my pin number. I just need more lunch money. So I would just be eating all day and just like go to library in between and then go to the next lunch and then go library and then go lunch. Like I just worked it and then I just started signing up for like after school programs. Like I was already hurting for school anyway, and so I just like extra tutoring classes or whatever. Like I just dicked off. I didn't really do much anyway. Yeah. Just to not go home, yeah. So um, yeah. I mean, one time my dad found cigarettes on me and he just got done with like he found them a bunch of times, and so he just called the cops. He's like, I'm done. Were they your cigarettes or was it she plant them? No, dude. I never smoked in my life, like maybe when I was drunk later on in life, but yeah, no, I never I wish, yeah. I wish I would have had something, man. Like it would probably have been nicer back then, but no, I never did.

SPEAKER_02: 41:30

Like, I'd accused for something that you were actually doing.

SPEAKER_00: 41:33

Yeah, there was one time he found cigarettes on me and he's like made me eat one, which good call because I never wanted to smoke after that. But that was disgusting, man. That was disgusting. Then the next time he found it, he's like, I'm done. So he called the cops, they come to the house, and they're like, You want us just to like scare him straight or whatever? And he's like, Nah, throw the book at him. So I got like they gave me a$180 ticket and I had to show up in court, and then I go to court, and the cop or the judge is like, Do you want us just to, you know, do the ticket or whatever? And he's like, Oh no, the cops just gave me a court appearance, and then my dad told the judge to throw the book at me. So they gave me, I was like 14 years old, they gave me a$180 ticket and then 25 hours of community service, which was sweet because for like five Sundays I gotta be gone for five hours. I just went to like Canyon County and picked up road trash or whatever. It was sick. I loved it. I didn't like it was the greatest time of my life. Get out of prison for a little bit. Yeah, dude. I got out and went to go pick range, like the range, all their bullet casings, whatever it was, clean their cars. I was loving life, man. Like, get me out. I was picking up trash on the side of the road, loving it.

SPEAKER_04: 42:36

Yeah, that's sad.

SPEAKER_00: 42:38

Yeah, but it was nice, so I was like, cool, whatever. I don't know where I got the 180 from. He'd probably maybe do some work and earn it off. Um, I mean, my dad tried, man. Like, he was doing the best he could, and like with the cards given, like, I don't hold any of it against him, and I told him that. Like, um, but yeah, I'm sure I'm missing some stuff in there somewhere. But eventually my dad started getting feelings for his secretary at work, and before I got any further, he got a divorce. That's how it ended.

SPEAKER_02: 43:09

Oh my god, you were probably like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 43:11

You know, it's interesting is like it's like I was so brainwashed when it happened, I was mad at my dad. She like brainwashed me like that that was just like the worst thing you could do.

SPEAKER_02: 43:21

And okay, so your dad files for divorce. She moves out. Did it did she try to have contact with you afterward, or was that it? Did she just ghost?

SPEAKER_00: 43:31

So they they decided they were gonna um once he broke it to her, like the secretary thing, he uh he's like, Matt, I don't want you to be around this. I'm gonna pull you out of school. There's like only three weeks left to school. He's like, I'm pulling you out and go to your mom's for the summer, like if that's what you want to do. So gave me my real mom. Okay. And she's back in Utah still? Yeah. Okay. So he like gave me like four or five hundred bucks and he's like, have a great summer. Like, I don't want you to have to be around this, it's gonna get dirty. Yeah. And I was like, Cool. So I went down there and I don't know, he pulled some strings because I was failing a couple classes, he got me like 60%. So I got enough to pull some strings, however, we did. So that's cool. But yeah, I went down to my mom's house and then and then uh they got a divorce. I did see her, like I seen my stepmom one time during the summer. She had gone down to Utah and it was just weird. I don't know. And then that was the last time I seen her.

SPEAKER_02: 44:27

When did you spill the beans to your mom and dad? Last November. You kept it a secret for that long?

SPEAKER_00: 44:34

Or not a secret, I think you kept it to yourself. I told my dad a little bit. Like I just said, like I think it was like maybe three or four years after that I had told him a little bit, but nothing like I did like a year ago.

SPEAKER_02: 44:46

I just said like How did he take so now that you obviously you've grown, you've processed a lot of this trauma, and then you finally get the chance to sit down with your dad. How is he receiving all of this? I mean, did you just lay it all out from start to finish? Pretty much, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 45:05

What how did he receive all of this? Just cried, terrible, like felt bad, of course, and like full of sorrow that he didn't see it, and um I don't know, man. I wouldn't change it though. Like it everything happened for a reason. It took me 15, 16 years to figure that shit out, but yeah. I that's why I told him, I was like, I'm glad it happened. Like I'll if I could go back and change it, I wouldn't. It sucked to go through, sure, but gave me such an edge up on life. Oh so I think just like my chaos level, man. Like I just where other people are crumbling, I'm I just find comfort kind of in the chaos, you know. Like when I went through the CERT Academy for the prison, it was my first experience with drill instructors. I know I never went to the military. Um, I tried to, but it didn't work out. I have like heart problems, so they were like a hiring freeze kind of in the Obama, like 2011 area. So they're like really picking up who they took. Oh yeah. And um but I just remember like being yelled at by the drill instructors, and I'm like, you've had people yell at you that actually hated you. These guys are just doing it because it's their job. It's their job, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 46:15

So you're able to process chaos on a whole different level because you've I don't want to say you've learned to thrive in chaos, but you spent your whole entire childhood being manipulated, starved, abused.

SPEAKER_00: 46:29

Was it Bain says you're like you were just raised, you're you just trained in the darkness? I was raised in the darkness or something, you know?

SPEAKER_02: 46:34

Yeah, that's actually probably a perfect saying for it. Yeah. Is you know, because you you don't know any different. And then now when you go to a job, like you know, going through these courses, you're probably like like this dude doesn't hate me, he's just doing his job, like this is easy. You don't you don't know what it's like to have your mom smack you on the top of the head with a blade and cut you open and make you lie about it. Like that's that's some sh strengthening internal strength that you're just looking at these guys like this is this ain't shit.

SPEAKER_00: 47:03

Yeah, yeah. So I just I don't know, I think it took me a long time. Like it wasn't like that. For sure. I was just I played the victim card for a little bit, I'm sure. Like, but I didn't want to talk about it, so I wasn't like, I don't know, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 47:17

And you didn't so when this the divorce happens, everything goes on. Did your path go like because you you have one of two options? You either stay on a path where you start to rebuild and learn to figure out life now, or you spiral and then start going the negative side of things because of the trauma and everything that you've had has happened throughout your childhood. Did you start to like rebel, or you already had enough of that, and you're like, holy shit, I just want like a normal childhood at this point. I just want a normal childhood, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 47:50

My dad and I's relationship got pretty good pretty quick. Yeah. It took about that summer. I was gone the whole summer with my mom, and uh he he came to try and pick me up, and I was like, I'm not going it yet. I'm gonna live with my mom. And uh he was going hunting in Utah or something for the weekend. He's like, I'll be back on Sunday, but you're going back with me. Uh I ended up going back with him. Like they had the cops coming and everything, he had paperwork and all that. Like But it wasn't like he held he didn't hold that against me or anything. He's just like, you know, well, you're going back with me. So but yeah, over the time then I started I started shooting a bow. My stepmom told me that hunting was murder, and I just hated hunting growing up. Just never did any of that. Um so I never got the chance to go hunting with my dad. He tried and uh yeah, I got a start. He missed all of that. Yeah. So yeah, I was like 15 when I started shooting a bow with my dad, and then uh so that was kind of cool, like our thing we could do. My dad's really good at archery, and yeah. Um so over the time we we started building a relationship back. It took a lot of work, yeah. Took a lot of like trust. He's like uh my stepmom at times like uh she thinks you don't like her. I just like I don't like her, I don't not like her, it just is what it is, right? Like I just didn't trust anybody at that point for like I'm not sure and so he's like she doesn't think you like her, and it was like kind of really pushing me, like like because I'm sure that she felt some way, right? Like, I'm sure, like it's not her fault that I just didn't trust stepmoms at that point, but I was like, Yeah, it is what it is, right? So oh your new second stepmom.

SPEAKER_02: 49:31

Yeah, yeah, no shit.

SPEAKER_00: 49:32

You're like, you got every wall and guard up and shield that known the man, you're just like, I'm good, and then she had a couple kids, and that was my first time ever having kids in the house, too, because I've just been a lonely child that whole time. And now 14, 15 at this point, tenth grade, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 49:47

Okay, so now god dang, man, like you've gone through some phases in your childhood.

SPEAKER_00: 49:53

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, that stepmom was like my saving grace. Yeah. So, like, she definitely had a purpose in my plan, whether I liked her or not. Like, she had a very good purpose.

SPEAKER_02: 50:07

So did she ever end up? I mean, obviously, are they still together? No, he's had a couple divorces.

SPEAKER_00: 50:12

Dang, good for him, huh? Yeah, he's but he got another child out of that, and so I always laugh and I'm like, Oh, well, you got your second chance at a real childhood with a kid. You know, which is like he missed out, you know. So I'm glad that he gets that second chance. Yeah. Poor I mean, how long were they together? The second marriage? Yeah, um five to fifteen, ten years, I think.

SPEAKER_02: 50:35

Okay, so you she got to see you go through your the last of your teenage years. Did you ever open up to her and no? No, I don't I mean, I don't blame you. Yeah, no. Because even a whole you have a whole life of trauma, it's probably gonna take a little bit of unpacking to Yeah, which isn't fair to her.

SPEAKER_00: 50:50

Like, I was probably a dick to her.

SPEAKER_02: 50:51

For sure, rightfully so though. I mean, you're not trusting anybody, yeah. Man, yeah, what a childhood.

SPEAKER_00: 50:59

Yeah, it was definitely definitely uh different. I've never heard of anybody having like the same experience, so it's been kind of a like that was the thing too. I didn't want to tell anybody because I didn't I was known as a liar as a kid, so I was like, people aren't gonna believe me, you know. Once you're marked, you're marked, yeah. Like it even took a long time. My dad would still make comments because I would say something to him like, um, can you imagine like having a kid that would be so rebellious or something? I was just talking to him about like a scenario, like, you were rebellious, you didn't do this, all this stuff, and I'm like, Oh man, you don't even get it. And this was like before I even told him, and he's he was still like holding on to like that I was a bad kid, so that was kind of hard because this whole time growing up, he kept making little comments like that that he had a hard time raising me. And I was like, I'm sure it was tough for you, Dad.

SPEAKER_02: 51:49

Yeah, you're like, really? So pull up a chair, Dad. Let's let's compare, let's compare my childhood. But he didn't know, you know, it sucks. And it's I hate to say it because I feel now like if I my kids started turning on me, I'd be like, oh no, like instant red flag. But we're a completely different generation of like the boomer generation that just I feel we're so clueless on everything and so lost, especially now as grandparents, that's they're we're you ever see something coming from inside the house?

SPEAKER_00: 52:17

Like you wouldn't think that you're everybody going to bed with every night is the one causing all the issues.

SPEAKER_02: 52:22

Yeah, but I feel like if my kid just turned and there was like that type, but I like that's why I said we're different we're completely different parents, our generation. Like I feel we're way more involved in those types of like, hey, what the hell's going on? Like, why are we acting like this? And getting to the root of it, yeah, and figuring out spending that quality time instead of just be like, all right, work home, work home, and all right, you got him, he's all yours, and you're just in this prison.

SPEAKER_00: 52:47

I feel like now that when that Netflix thing just came out about like unknown caller, have you do you see that? No, it's like a mom just like texting her dad for like a year. I was like, I kind of understand how that chick feels, but not but she didn't know it was coming from inside the house. Yeah, I always knew it was from inside the house, but I was like, man, there are some messed up people out there.

SPEAKER_02: 53:06

Okay, yeah. Now that you 100% there, I mean, dude, there are some psychos out there that have children. Yeah. And the fact that that woman ran a preschool, that's even yeah, or a daycare.

SPEAKER_00: 53:18

That's crazy. For I think like a like at least a decade or something before that, like a long time.

SPEAKER_02: 53:23

Oh shit, bro. Yeah, that's the craziest that's the craziest shit when people don't realize like who you never know. Behind any that's why like I'm one of those, I trust nobody.

SPEAKER_00: 53:34

My hard part now is like trying to be a dad, and I'm like, I don't know what a normal childhood is supposed to look like. Oh, okay. So, like, and then when my kids don't want to go play outside, I'm like, Do you fucking know what I went through? Like, I I try not to take it out of my kids because I it's not their fault, but I'm just like trying to shake them, like you have no idea. Just go play outside, please for the love. Like on a hand, like a maybe two handfuls of times in my 10 years, I gotta play outside, like just fucking go, you know? Yeah, my like my wife understands, so she's like trying to like ring me in, but I'm like, kids, like seriously, you don't understand how good you have it here in America for one, and then just to have like parents actually love you in the house, like that seems like it should be a common thing, but it's fucking not, yeah, you know, yeah, and at the same time, you don't know how to even process how your children are completely different because your childhood was so yeah, drastically different than theirs, and now I would imagine I feel who I would be, but I just would want to give them everything and make sure they have the greatest childhood known to man.

SPEAKER_02: 54:45

Yeah, and then when they don't want to like be pretty kind of receptive to certain things, like they just want to chill in the house, you're like, What the fuck? Like, I'm giving you the world that I didn't have, and now you're not going to accept it, so it might feel personal at times, but yeah, yeah, kids.

SPEAKER_00: 55:01

And it's hard because like when I was growing up, I remember always hearing from people like you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, you were raised like we always had nice cars, we went on nice vacations, we like I had I had the world, bro, but like I was never allowed to use any of it, and I was never out allowed to have fun or anything, so everybody's like, you know, that whole must be nice kind of thing. I was like, fuck you, dude, you don't even know, you know, it's like they look at something on the outside, and that's kind of like why I started my podcast called Rains Brings Growth, is because like people want this, but they don't see all the shit that you had to do to get there, right? It's like sure you have to go through all this to get the strong will and character and everything, but like people don't see that stuff. People just look at me and are like, Oh, you know, you got your dad makes a lot of money, you're get everything you need, you have a roof over you, you have food, and I was like, that's funny, but you know, like I never went without, but I went without everything, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 55:56

That's a great way to put it, which is wild too, because you look at the guys that have give been given everything in life and they're the most ungrateful, don't risk appreciate anything. I I know a couple guys that just legit silver spoon. Well, when you I hate despise the must-be nice people like that to me. If somebody ever to me is like must be nice, I'm like boop, shelf on the bottom, like never coming off that shelf again because you look at you and people must be nice, but like they don't understand what it took to just to be able to not go down the path that ruined your life after what you've been through as a feat in its own. Like, what an accomplishment to not turn to what she was portraying you as, telling you to be this bad kid, got cigarettes and pills and everything in your bag that she's putting there. Like you had such an opportunity to just all right, cool. I'm gonna go that path. Yeah. And then you overcome that, build what you've built, started a career, win in the corrections, started a pocket, everything now, started a family to be able to look back and I'm sure is a pretty incredible feeling to be like, oh, like you, I don't know how long it's taken to realize, but you've probably fought every statistic against you from coming from an abusive psycho-ass parent in the house, starved, beaten, cut, all the way up till your teen years, like you literally were the perfect recipe for a disaster of a child. I'm not saying you didn't have your times, but hearing this story, I mean, there's kids that have everything given to them, and they're yeah, they go down such a horrible path, and they got everything provided to them in life, and then here you are, literally locked away with all the opportunities to just backlash and rebel and do that whole entire spiel that most kids go down and chose not to. I mean, that's what an incredible accomplishment for you to be able to. I know it probably took a long time and probably still don't see the full picture of it because you know, being a father and a husband now, but it's like, man, good for you. Like, you should not be sitting here with like how you're not in prison is wild. I mean, like make a light of it, but it's like you think about the numbers and like you watch these cases of these kids and hurt people hurt people. Yeah, that's you know, we've seen it a million times. All these kids have traumatic childhoods, they end up turning and becoming something that's not great for society. And so the fact that you were like, hey, like, cool, I'm gonna use this and I'm gonna grow from it, and it probably took a lot of years to process the trauma and to really look back at it and be like, Oh shit, like yeah, this sucked. This isn't normal. Yeah, and now that you have children, you're like, get the fuck outside because I never got to play outside. Exactly. So you're gonna enjoy this, but then you have to find that balance, like, okay, they're just kids and they're gonna they're gonna do what makes them happy, but you're I'm just gonna provide it for them if they use it, they use it, if they don't, cool. So yeah, Dr.

SPEAKER_00: 58:58

Peterson had uh uh a site you could go to and check your trauma test or whatever, so you'd answer all these questions, and I scored like an eight out of ten. I was like, oh shit, I guess that's a high score.

SPEAKER_02: 59:09

Yeah, you're like uh probably was about right. Yeah, damn, dude. Good for you though. Good for you for coming out on top.

SPEAKER_00: 59:16

Yeah, man. I I honestly just thought it was always gonna get shoved on the rug, like I wasn't ever gonna tell my story, and that kind of scared me. I was like, man, what if I die with this crazy story? Then like for what? That was a big thing. I was like, I had to go through all this for a reason. Now I just need to figure out why.

SPEAKER_02: 59:34

Yeah. So transition corrections. What made you want to be a correctional officer?

SPEAKER_00: 59:42

Um, in high school, I like my senior year, I took like an intro to law enforcement class and it was kind of interesting, and I was like, All right, I think I want to do like law enforcement, maybe be a cop or something. Um and then I just hit my party phase and I started drinking a lot out of high school. Never drank. I never did any drugs or or um drinking until I graduated high school. Okay. Actually I drank a little bit, I guess, on like a hunting trip one time, but I didn't know. They kept just sneaking into my power aid, which was another story. But um but I never was like a partier until out of high school. And then I just kind of went to a life of comfort and started getting out of shape and and all that. And then I kind of just went to like working in a call center and just kind of lost that ambition.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:29

Uh gained a lot of weight in between like just the partying and what's a lot of weight? Um I got I think my biggest I got was like up to 250. Oh shit. Yeah. I was a thicky Ricky. It was thicker than a bowl of oatmeal. Uh shoot, like my biggest was right before my daughter was born, and that was 2014, and I was 201. Okay. Yeah. So big. Yeah. I was uh just big. And that's that was those are some rough pictures to look at, but it helps me over my testimonials nowadays. But uh it sucked. Like I was a big old comfort seeker. And so I worked I worked at a call center, ended up not liking it uh for like a year and a half, went to work with my dad, and he kind of knew like I told him a little bit, like I told you, just a little bit, like three, four years after. So he was kind of easy on me. Should have fired me way earlier than I got fired. I didn't even get fired, but um like just let me get away with murder pretty much. Um so I did that for a little bit, and then I think his company got bought out, and so I was technically working for another company, but he was a GM. And they rolled out this rule that said you can't work directly under family. And out of their three states that they have it in, it only affected me. Oh really? Yeah. So I was I mean, that's a pretty good way to like wing you out. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And they're like, You we're not gonna fire you, but you need to be looking for another job. You have like 90 days. So I was like, alright, shit. Fair enough. Yeah. So around this time, my I have I have brothers on my I have a brother and a sister on my mom's side. Okay. Um my brother was getting into some trouble down in Utah. I went to go see him on Christmas one time, right after my daughter was born. And uh he's carrying around like this little prostitute gun. And I'm like, what the hell are you doing with that, dude? Like he's like, Oh, some people just don't like me and I'm in some trouble. And I was like, Well, first off, get a real gun if you're gonna carry anything, but uh I was like, just come back up to Idaho with me, dude. Like I got him I got a little trailer, whatever. We had like a double wide on our own lot, so it was kind of cool. Uh like a half acre. So I gotta shoot my bow and everything on it. Um I was like, just come live with me, you know, there's some good job opportunities up there, just get a new environment. So um I came back, got him like the next day, made a quick turn and burn from Boys Eaten back, came and got him, and then uh came come back up with me. I signed him up for like Department of Labor to get some jobs. I didn't know his email, so I put my email and around the same time as when my dad's like, you need to find a new job. And I got an email like a few weeks later from Department of Corrections from my brother, and I was like, he ain't gonna fly. I'll take this job though. Oh, no shit.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:17

Yeah. So I was like signing your brother up for it ended up getting you the job.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:21

Yeah, I just signed my brother up for just like any jobs to come through, and I'd seen that came through. So I went to the job fair. It was really funny because I go to the job fair, I I filled out the whole 14-page packet beforehand, that's my like drug use and everything. And uh I put on my marijuana. I think I put down like two years prior. That was my last time that I used, and they're like, Well, unfortunately, you can't get hired because you have to be at least three years clean. I was like, Okay, she's like, Are you sure it was two years? I can just change it real quick if you think it was three, like if you're not sure, and I was like you're right. Yeah, I was like, Yeah, probably. And she's like, All right, let's go ahead and change this. She's like, This is your start date. And I was like, Oh, sick, all right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:00

Yeah, those are the best. I've had a couple of those. Are you sure? I'm like, Yeah, actually, I'm not sure. I was doing one with my wife, and she they were trying to like do that. And she's like, No, and I'm like, No, I am actually I don't remember what it was. I'll have to ask her after this, but she tried to dime me out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:15

I was like, Oh yeah, they're trying to give me an in right now, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she's like, All right, well, this is your start date, and I was like, sick. And then I had like a month lapse between like my other job ended like March 1st, and then my corrections job started April 6th, so I had like a month off just chilling. No doubt. And I thought that um I thought that like the physical fitness requirements was the ones I was looking at, but come to find out that was like for post for like cops, and I was like, Oh, good, because I was failing that. I was going in like first day. I was thinking I had like run like a mile and a half, and then they're like, No, you just have to run a half mile in under eight minutes. I was like, Oh, okay. I mean, I could walk that, that's fine, whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:53

Like you're a big boy at this point, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:56

Yeah, you're like, thank god. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:00

So I go through all that, and yeah, you could damn near walk a half mile in eight minutes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:06

That's that's another thing. I mean, I think they need to have definitely higher standards, but I mean, they put a they put a mirror under your nose, it fogs up, you're hired. So, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:16

I've heard this a lot with the correctional side of things that they'll just they're they'll take anybody. They just need a pulse. They need a body, yeah. Because it's such because corrections is like the lost bastard child of the the law enforcement world that nobody gives a shit about, thinks about, acknowledges ever. So they're just they're just I mean, I watch the media shows and I see some of these correctional officers, and I'm like, what the f how is she in a max security prison?

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:46

You know, like it's insane. And um, and then now they're they lowered didn't they lower the standards here in Idaho to like 18 or something like that? I remember when that happened. I mean, it's it's hard. I don't know. I guess there's no difference in my dumbass going off to war at 18, you know, like yeah, I can I can go and die for my country.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:04

At least there's uh the the standards to get into that is a lot harder. You're not you're not just signing something they send you off. Yeah, I mean it putting an eight going through basic, you're going through all that, and that's weaning out the week at least. Yeah, or building them up, yeah. Yeah, but I get them, right? Not just a desk warrior, like you go to the post for four weeks.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:23

Yeah, or some 18-year-old kids gets put in max or something like that, and you're dealing with a career murderer, yeah. They're gonna eat that kid alive.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:32

Yep. So training when you get to the actual course breeze for you, I mean it wasn't bad. It was pretty good. Easy shit. Yeah, no problem. A lot of people say I haven't heard anybody, even Kyle. You know Kyle. So he if he said it was easy, I knew it was pretty easy. Yeah. He's a homie, I can say it. It's not like Kyle's the most fit. Like a buck 20 soaking one.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:55

Yeah, he's not the most physically fit, dude. But I mean when he used to be Jack. I seen his pictures back in the day.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:00

Yeah, but yeah, back when we were all just filling syringes with everything we could and sticking them in us. Yeah, that was the early days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:07

Much different times now. It's only one cycle if we never get off, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:11

Yeah, yeah, it was Kyle's mentality. I think that's how he met my wife, actually. He's like, hey, what's your husband running? Like, that's how that's how we even got tied in with him. I think he walked. I think I was in I was in Afghan when he I think he met. Anybody that's listening, Kyle, episode 32. It's the one of our worst filmed ones because it was our first one in the studio. But yeah, you guys can go check that out. Kyle's a good dude. Love that guy. He was my first episode. Was he your first? I think he told me that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:41

My first in my house. The what? Your first, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:43

Oh, yeah. First in your house, first in our house. That's hilarious. Kyle. So corrections. Let's dive into the world of being a freaking CEO, man. What is that like?

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:55

Yeah, it was it was uh definitely a culture shock for me. Like just I was 22 when I got hired. Okay. Um, pre pretty cake jobs before that, right? And then I go in there and for me, yeah, it was different, man. They put me on third shift first, so I was 2 30 at in the afternoon till 10 30 at night, which is like the worst shift you can do pretty much. I feel okay. It like ruins your day, you know, you can't do anything, like okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. But um yeah, I was just on pretty much like a relief at that point. I just they were tossing me everywhere, which is good because you get a no everywhere. Um but honestly, I was a shit worker, man. I was not like I was your CO that you you hear stereotypes about, like I ate in the gate, I was out, didn't want to do anything extra that I had to, like calling off. I just I wasn't really caring, man. I was just no it took a took a little bit for me to get going.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:50

Do you think a lot of that like just came from the childhood shit? You just didn't get really didn't care about anything or just kind of taking care of it?

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:56

I was just lazy. Okay. I was just lazy at that point, man. Like the weight thing, I just, you know, I had kids. I'm not gonna be blaming on the kids, man. It's just probably all me. I don't know. I'm not gonna but it wasn't like anything crazy that first year. Um yeah, I just was filling in and at that point you don't have any seniority, so they just toss you wherever they need you. They might need you on second shift, which is like a morn like 6 30 in the morning until 2 30, and then the next night they might tell you to come in for graveyard, like give you an eight-hour turn number, and like Oh my god. Yeah. So sometimes those sucked, right? Yeah, for sure. Um But like it wasn't crazy. Like the first year, I definitely got like my my eyes open. I never looked at another dude naked before, right? Like, never like you're seeing some shit then. So is it a call shock for you? Yeah, like you're doing strip outs and stuff, right? Like, that's just a part of your assignment, like squat and cough, dude, and all this other good stuff, right? So coming from a call center or working in I was a like doing plumbing stuff before that to like to now check a dude's buttholes that are schooling things. Miles of dick, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:03

Just you know I've never heard that, but yeah, we call them the pecker checkers, like do the piss tests in the Marine Corps, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:14

I did five years on transport. That was my last five years, and I've seen a lot. That's all we did. Really?

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:20

Yeah, because you're stripping dudes. Have you ever found anything?

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:23

I've never found anything.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:24

So it's not as common as like what civilians would think. I always think like when you're strip searching dudes, like everybody's trying to bring shit in.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:31

I've I've heard other podcasts where inmates are on there and like that squad coughing doesn't work. You can you can squeeze when you're coughing. Like you can squeeze it up there. Oh no shit. Yeah. He's like, it's it's not coming out.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:44

What's the most random thing that you learned in your first year? I mean, you obviously it's a culture shock. Like, what's some what was a huge culture shock for you?

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:52

Gosh, just some of the things I remember the first year I had this dude, we had to take him to the emergency room because he shoved a pencil in his dick, pen eraser first, so then when it becomes pull out, he couldn't pull it out. I don't that was odd. I was like, all right. Yeah, that's odd. Yeah. Yeah. This is weird. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:11

People just dude, prison shit is the wildest. I don't understand why the story. Okay, if you got let's just get into these stories because prison is just the inmates are the most fascinating human beings on the planet. Like, I the fact that we're not studying them, like, why are these people built like this? Like, where did their mind split where the dude wants to put a pencil up the tip of his dick? Like, where where in your path of life that that you hit that crossroader, like, I'm gonna go down this one. Like, you know, I think Austin legged on that episode, dude cut his nuts open with fingernail clippers. Like, how does your brain turn off the receptors of like, yeah, this doesn't hurt and this is normal?

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:55

Yeah, I don't know, man. I I seen that last year, or I guess it was this year. I went into like the closed custody unit for at the yard, and I was an RE and the buddy, one of my buddies, like, hey, will you help me get a check real quick? And I go get a check with him, and he's like, Ah, I said, Well, this dude over here is cutting his dick open. Like, he had he just had, and this is just like in segregation. So he's using like just the the simple free razors they give you. He like snap the razors off and he's just slicing himself, like self-harming. Like, imagine hearing that call on the radio. He's like, he is uh fully cutting himself, he had like everything wrapped around his penis too, and like just slicing it open, and this is all on the radio. I'm like, this is nuts. This is an average Tuesday, you know. It was crazy, man. But like that, that wasn't like anything too out of the ordinary, which is crazy to say. But there's been I mean that that's that's the weird part is the culture shock of like what is normal, what gets normalized, yeah. And you just get desensitized to it after long enough, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:58

People, yeah, that's the thing. Like when when we have guys on and they talk about it, and they're almost-I don't want to say in a laughing way, but it is a laughing way, but oh, you get dark humor for sure. You have to at some point, yeah, and that's why like a lot of people are like, Oh, I don't understand military humor, and it's like we're built around this job that's meant to fucking dish out as much hate and discontent possible, yeah. Like that just comes with the nature, and so that's where a lot of people don't, a lot of civilians do not know how to comprehend. And I didn't know it was so bad in the correctional world. I feel the CEOs are almost they're up there. They're you guys are worse than cops when it comes to like dark humor desensitizing to me. Thank you. Yeah, because cops are dealing with it on such a short term arrest made, yeah, booked, gone. You guys are living with these people and dealing with this dude that has this horrible mental issue that's cutting his fucking dick off or cutting his balls open with tweezers or you know, clippers, and you're like, nah, Jimmy's at it again. Like, yeah, we gotta do a cell extract. Like, it's just a normal Tuesday, like you said, for you guys. Like, it's it's insane listening to that stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:09

Yeah, yeah. I mean, things just become normalized, and then you start knowing who those individuals are that always do these things, and it's just like oh, he's at it again. Like you said, it's just it does become routine. Like you almost have a template when you gotta write your information report. You're like, oh, this has happened before. No shit. I got it somewhere in here I could just, you know, copy and paste and just change the name and date. Yeah, to a degree. Like, there's a lot, like you know, fights and everything like that, and you just start to start to get I think I was probably in like year two before I even had to respond to a fight. Really? Like that I or I got a spray, I should say. Like I responded to some, but I wasn't the first on scene. It was like in the chow hall. It was like it was like an unwritten rule, like don't spray in the chow hall, because then you have to evacuate everybody and then if it ruins people's food and you gotta refeed them and stuff. And my first time I just shh I went like Yeah, everybody's getting it. It wasn't a good, it wasn't, yeah. It was probably like in the what not to do, but I mean it was an aggressor and I sprayed him and that was a bit. Was he coming at did you ever okay?

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:09

So as a correctional officer, do you ever get when was your first person? Did you ever have somebody attack you?

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:14

I never had a I never had anybody called Really?

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:17

No shit. I think that's I think that just has to do with like how you treat them, unless unless it's like a hit on you. But you wouldn't get a hit on you unless you did something. I don't I don't feel like unless you're a huge asshole to them. Yeah. I feel like there's definitely certain shifts that would berade them. We would joke with them, like oh, we would talk shit back to them, they talk shit to us. I loved working the close custody units because they were the most respectful. They're the gangs, but they're the most respectful to you, and they're the ones that like are the most violent, but the most respectful.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:46

Okay, so let's break down the psychology of that because I feel a lot of people don't realize like as a they think that correctional officers, you just have to be like this robot, you're roaming in there, you're doing cell checks. As a correctional officer, I mean, do you when I say build a relationship with these guys, I'm not talking personal, but I mean you're getting a rapport, yeah, exactly. I mean, how does that work as a correctional officer inside the walls?

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:11

Yeah, I mean, you're dealing with these guys day in and day out, especially if you're assigned to a unit, so you start to get to know them, you start to know like who's kind of in charge, and like you you try and say like you're in charge, but you're not, you know. So you just you build some kind of a rapport with them, and you know, you say what you're gonna do and you do it, and it's the people that say they're gonna do stuff for them, and then they lie or they go home or whatever, and they remember those things, but um the guys that are in the the gangs, like especially the ones that are on hard walk, which means they're still good in the gangs, they haven't dropped out. Okay, like they're they're probably one of the easier ones to deal with because they don't want to bring really any attention to their gang or whatever.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:56

And so as long as you're being respectful but still firm and consistent, like you you just have to have a gray area, I feel like, especially in close custody. They're locked up already. Like you take away their wreck or something, they're they're only getting out like one hour a day anyway, right? So it doesn't bug them. You give them you know, different DORs. It's not gonna do much. What's a DOR? Like a disciplinary of entropy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:21

Oh, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:22

So like you definitely have to have ground rules, and they know that they can't like go past that. But I mean, I know there's been times where I've seen stuff happen, like you know, they're not supposed to trade stuff, right? Barter food back and forth, but it's like you can be an asshole and take it from, I'm sure. But at the end of the day, like they they live here, man. Like, I think I think that's where I had a different outlook on these guys than like some of the other guys that um you might talk to, just because like I grew up in a shitty childhood, man. Like, so I kind of like could I grew up with a lot of people that are in there I seen from the people I would hang around. Like I didn't hang around with the good kids growing up, yeah. Like I hung out with the outcast, and a lot of them ended up in prison, and I seen them. So to me, I was like, Man, this could have been me for sure. I know, and even when I was working in the prison, man, I did so much stupid shit that could have landed me in there, you know, like driving drunk and all these different things. So like when they they would say that to us, they're like, the only difference between you and me is you didn't get caught, and I'm like, 100%, man. Like that is the difference, that is, and so like I did, I did start it took me a few years. I was a dick cop when I began. Like I was thinking like I was badge heavy as they would call it, right? But it took me a little while after that, and I started getting a little bit better. Um realizing like, yeah, man, I could have ended up in here and I could have been fucked up, and I could have it could have been me for sure. So once I started making that switch, I was like, all right, just treat these guys with respect. You know. I know they're someone's family too, like respect's huge, respect's everything in prison, right? I was in a close custody unit too, so it wasn't like I was dealing with H homos.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:00

So ex okay, so explain a c close custody unit in prison. What exactly is that?

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:05

Close custody is like if they get so many points from either fights or drugs or any kind of other disciplinary offenses that they get so many points that they have to go into close custody. Once those points will drop off, then they can go down to medium custody, and once those points drop off, they can go to So what's the difference between close custody and medium custody of just how many hours you're locked down a day? So, like a lot of medium custodies, you'll have like eighty people on a tier, something like that, and they can all come out to the day room at once. Like it's just you have to go in for count, you have to, you know, do other things. It's kind of more you have it structured, but you can still go on like hall movements and stuff. Close custody, you got two hours a day, you can come out of your cell in the day room, only like eight cells at a time. If they're on eight cell walks, if they've been fighting, they'll go down to like four cell walks. If they're still fighting, they'll go down two cell walks, but um they only get a little bit of time. Another thing is too like medium custody, they can go shower whenever they want, they can use a microwave whenever they want. It's like you got your day room time, that's all you can do. Get it, and you're back in your cell for 22 hours, you know?

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:03

Oh shit. Does that break these dudes a lot?

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:05

I mean, it's getting a lot of them like it better as long as their doors don't accidentally roll and there's like softwalks people are out, then they have to go and take care of business. Other than that, like unless there's in-house business that they gotta take care of on their walk, they would prefer these like higher gang people, they'd rather prefer being closed units because they don't have to worry about who's coming in on like a medium custody if they're gonna have to put in work or whatever, right? So it's kind of more like they I don't know, like maybe more of like a brotherhood, right? They know each other and oh shit.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:40

So who really runs the prison? Inmates or correctional officers.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:49

Um I think they both do, right? Like like they the inmates will definitely run within their own area. Um I I wouldn't say that they run the prison. I would definitely say that they they have a lot of politics for sure, and they will make us work a lot harder because they're gonna they're gonna be calling the shots as far as like when the fights are gonna happen and all these other things. And I just wouldn't I I wouldn't say that they run the prison. I would just say that they definitely do cause a lot of the politics come from them, right? And then that will make us have to react. For sure. I wouldn't say that they run it. They definitely they definitely have our work cut out for us. Yeah. Um however, like the the like sex offenders and things like that, they're more they're more of the most needy people, and they they run their units, man. It's crazy how much they get bowed down to in their units. They because they just complain a lot, and then they go to like their moms will call in, and then it's more like just trying to keep the peace with those whiny babies.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:57

That is so crazy that you talk about the moms, because we've had a couple of guests on that have dealt with sex offenders, like predator chomo, like hardcore. Like one dude just got put away for life with a woman that we had on the show, and there's another woman that's dealing with uh like a serial predator, and their moms are the ones that are like funding their lawyers and stuff, both of them. Like all these moms defend their sons after ruining a child's life, yeah. It's wild. So I like it, it makes sense. Like it's so hilarious to be that like you're like the mom's calling in. It wouldn't have registered with me if we wouldn't have had these conversations with these women that are dealing with these professional, like groomer predators. And every time that they're in court, their moms are right there by their side, like yeah, trying to free their son that literally went through a psychosexual eval or whatever, where they sit down, these predators, and see how if they're gonna like re-offend again and they're coming back maxed out, where these doctors or these psychologists are like, Yeah, don't release them to public because they will offend again. And their moms are like paying the hundred grand for their lawyer bills. And it's like, yeah, what the f dude, I don't best friend, father, mother, kids, wife, you cross that line with a kid, you're done. Like, yeah, there's no, but none of that. I don't give a shit. And it's it's crazy that you say that. Like, yeah, moms are always in. So, okay, so here's a question because I hate this is one of the things that pisses me off the most about our prisons is that sex offenders get segregated, they get their own wing because of what they've done. Do you think that's fair?

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:35

Uh yes, me before I started going to church, I'd say no. But like now, it's like it's not up to us to decide their fate, because otherwise they would be dead. Like it's not even a question, you know, if you intermixed them. At that point, it just becomes like a a resource issue. Like if you put sex offenders in regular population, it just it'd be such a chaos.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:55

See, that's I I I want that. Because I think about I just if it's you hear about, oh, when you get to prison, you're gonna check you, they're gonna check you. That doesn't happen anymore because these guys are so very rarely okay, right? Unless you're a gang member, drugs, normal gen pop. Yeah, then then you have to worry. But like these dudes that are ruining a child's life are now going to prison and they get their own wing that they get to control. It's like imagine if you just that little seed planted in your head where you're seeing news coming out, the stories, the inmates talking, and then you knew like, damn, dude, I'm going to Gen Pop as a chomo. Like I'm gonna get what's coming because that child that they just ruined his life, like I to me that's where I think, like, yeah, that's that's part of your sentence of ruining a child's life should go to gym pop.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:48

Yeah. I mean, I you know, whatever happens, happens. Yeah. Um, but it's it's just more of like a a resources issue, man. And it's like they would be having murders every day if they were, and rightfully so or not, like that's what would happen because they deserve it if they you know, if you're I don't know, it's hard to say. Like, I'd I try and give grace, but like, yeah, you you touch kids, man. You're like, get bent, you know. Yeah, there's no there. I like I I try and do like a whole forgiveness thing nowadays, but like you touch kids, you I'll turn the cheek on that forgiveness thing, bro.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:25

Well, it's yeah, but at the same time, when these dudes are coming back from these psychosexual, I think that's what you call them, uh, these evals, and these these therapists are like, yeah, they're 100% going to do this again if they're released. Like, there's like how do you forgive and it's not our spot to judge or forget, whatever. That's up to God, right? That's that's up to your maker, but it's like the fact that we're protecting them in my taxpaying dollars. Like I was talking to one of our guests, her daughter was raped, molested. Now her daughter's of the working age, so her taxes are going to fund the dude that molested her daughter and buy them iPads. Like this dude is now being funded by the child, the children that he molested, raped, did horrible things to, made AI, all kinds of the worst shit you've ever heard of. Now that girl's taxes are paying for this dude's to live in prison and get three hot in a cot and an iPad to be able to text and watch movies on now. That's where like this whole our correctional facility, like I just like make that make sense.

SPEAKER_00: 1:26:27

Yeah, I I wish that the general public would be able to see what prison is really like because it's not like you see on TV. It's pretty chill. It's a pretty chill life, man. And that's the problem, I think, is that like it's not our sp it's not our spot to like punish them inside the prison, but like if it's not bad enough, why would they be afraid to not go back in? Especially if they've just done like 10 years out there. They're like, that was pretty chill, and like I'll take a risk to go and commit this crime if it's you know, whatever like easy money or something, right? Like if I get caught, I get caught. If I don't, then whatever. It's not it's not as bad as they say in there. I mean, there is it's definitely dangerous for sure. But if you can put your head down, you can get by. That's that's me talking from a guy that's never been to prison, right? Like, I don't know everything there is in prison, but like it doesn't seem it's not like lockup or whatever. Like it's not as bad as I think. No. I've never been to Max like leg, so like I'll I'll say that. I did work in that close custody unit, which Max has like 400 people, I think, in the whole institution, and our close custody unit had like 336. Okay. And it was all so that was that was busy. It's not the same as Max, but it was the same people, pretty much. So I I will say that. Like, but everywhere else that I've been to, it's pretty chill. Pretty chill. It's just crazy to me. I mean, they have their own issues, right? Like, it's still prison, you're not seeing your family. I think as a dad, that's the part that bugged me the most was seeing these guys coming back over and over again. And I'm like, if you love your kid, man, like how are you coming back? I go hunting. I say I'm gonna go hunting for seven days, I'll come home after four because I just miss my kids. Yeah, for sure. I feel like a dick or like a you know pussy or whatever for coming to home early. I was like, I'm gonna go all seven days, and I'm like missing them. I'm like, whatever, I'm coming home. And then these guys will go away for years, sentences, and then go again because they wanted to go hang out with their boys or they wanted to go do drugs and like violate parole. Yeah, bro. Like, how many kids you got? You're just leaving them? Like, I don't know. So that that that part bugged me, especially when I was on transport. I gotta see like a lot of repeat offenders, and I was like, dude, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:30

Oh, yeah, because Max, I mean, those guys are there, so your guys are getting timed out or whatever, so then you would see them come back.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28:37

No, like max max points can drop off too, and they can go from max to to you know medium or whatever. Yeah. Most people at max end up staying there for quite a while, but you can definitely leave there.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:49

Okay. How fast can you see a situation turn inside a prison?

SPEAKER_00: 1:28:54

Oh, it goes from zero to a hundred real quick. Really? Yeah. How so? I mean, you just most of the time, 90% of the time, it's just chill. And then there's be some times that you can start feeling it, especially in close custody units. You see them come out on their day room walks and they're not in like their personal clothes and they're in state clothes, their sh their socks are tucked in to their pant legs and stuff, so they don't trip on them when they start fighting. You're like, oh, okay. Oh, so there's signs. There's signs, yeah. You you'll do like a check before you we usually do checks on the close custody units before we would like say call call you know a quad or whatever out. And you go and you go look by a window and they already have all their stuff rolled up. You're like, oh, hey guys, this guy's already got his stuff rolled up. Just letting you know. Because he's ready to go, you know. He knows he's putting in work. He doesn't want us to roll up his stuff for him, which is nice for us, like whatever. It's cool. But oh, so they prep everything and get ready. Not all the time. Sometimes stuff had just happens, but if they know, like as soon as those doors roll, we're going. A lot of times they'll already be prepped. Do you ever have inmates give you a Heads up, like, hey, this is about to go down. I think maybe investigations sometimes would get some idea, but they would never just tell us unless unless someone was supposed to like put in work and they would PC up in the middle of the night. Be like, I I can't live on this unit. You know? How do you PC up in the middle of the night without like you slip a note through your door when they do their checks? Oh, okay. So like whenever you're doing a walk, either you it's this concern for them, right? And it could just be something like I need more indigent supplies or whatever. It could just be sometimes it'd be like, I can't live here anymore. And at that point, like we have to get them off right then and there, in case it is a security issue, and they go take them to the classroom, ask them what's up, and they're like, I just can't live on the tier. And like, you're you are you refusing to go back on the tier? And at that point they say yes, and you just take them to segregation, and then they have like a they get a DOR for like refusal of housing or something, but then investigations will come talk to them, or but that's how they PC up, and then that's when they go from the you know, m Gen Pop to the PC area.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:04

What's it like dealing with the mentally ill inside of a prison? Since that's where I see we s we send all of them now.

SPEAKER_00: 1:31:13

A lot of that's dealt with at Max. There is there is when I was at um when I was at ICI for the last six months of my career there, uh they do have a whole general pop kind of area that's mental health. And those are more like those that mental health are more like um just handicapped, like mentally handicapped ones.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:35

Is that sad?

SPEAKER_00: 1:31:36

I mean that is sad, like especially I don't know, now that I have like an autistic son, like I kind of look at that and I'm like this sucks, man. Um just no Yeah, I I mean there was this one guy who was really nice to me, talked to me every day, and like he was like, uh I want to be a cop one day and everything, and he's like he's talking more mentally handicapped and stuff, and yeah, I just talked to him, right? Um when I was in high school, I always wasn't like those handicapped classes helping him out, so I just had kind of had like that. Yeah. So I was just talking to him and I was like, hey man, like why are you in here? Because he was telling me like his family was on drugs. I was like, you do drugs or something, or what? And he's like, just underage girls. He's like, you shouldn't be able to look up child pornography on Google. I was like just like that, yeah. Just like doesn't click. I was like, all right, dude. He's like, yeah, I do drugs too, but yeah, he's like child pornography. I was like, gosh. Alright, man. Yeah, this conversation's over. Is there a lot of that? Yeah, Idaho's mainly drug offenses or sex offenses. Oh, really? Yeah. I'm kidding. Yeah. I mean, it's not like we I mean, I hear some gang stories out here. Yeah. It happens for sure, but it's mainly if you were to look up like the statistics, I'm sure that it'd be mainly drug offenses and sex offenses for Idaho.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:01

Okay, so here's I guess like my thing with with these prisons. And correct me if I'm wrong, I would love to have your opinion, is let's say we take some kid and it's his first offense, and let's say he gets 18 months, two years, whatever it is. He gets put in the prison. In order to fit in or survive, he's gonna get pulled into a group, which I feel and correct me if I'm wrong, most people have to. Is it hard to fly solo in a prison if you're gonna be there for a while? Then they get pulled into these gangs or groups, whatever it is, and then that group gives them tasks or a fight or something to carry out, and then they end up racking more time on. So instead of this guy getting rehabilitated or just doing his time, now they're stacking on charges, which is extending their time, which just makes things even worse, which keeps them in the prison even longer to be able to keep more funding for these people that are there. Am I looking at this wrong? But I feel like that's how like can you for one? I guess I guess my first question out of all of that would be is it even possible to go to prison and roll solo for sure? Is it? Yeah, okay, how so? These you got you you don't get picked on, you don't get bullied or anything.

SPEAKER_00: 1:34:14

I think it's your intentions when you're going in there. If you want it, you can find it. If you don't, it's like especially if you go to ICI, which is the yard's like their biggest medium security, there's hardly any gang stuff there. Um and then it's just like you definitely can click up easy for sure. But I think if you go to like ISEC, they're more of the prominent people for getting in gangs. It's more of they used to call it like the gladiator school. It's gone away from that now. But it was talking about that. That was like when it was CCA when they owned it, the state took over. Yeah, the state took over. Um and then it it kind of went away from that. I think it's still a little bit more more fights over there than the other place, but I think if you're going into prison, you you're looking for what you want. In Idaho, it's not like it's not like California or anything like that, man. I'd from what I've seen, I mean you get an inmate in here and they might tell you something different. I don't know. From my perspective, if you wanted to come in and didn't want to click up. I don't have to. I don't think you would have to. Now, if you like start accruing a debt, right? Or they that's how they usually get them, is like they'll accrue a debt to help out, and then they're like, Okay, well now you're a part of us or you need to put work in, and then that's when the issues get in, and then they feel like they gotta they gotta click up with them or something. But but the debt could be something so simple, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:35:36

Yeah, just like hygiene or something or whatever. Like borrow something from somebody and that's it. That's all it takes, and you're in.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:43

I don't know like the full investigation side of it and everything, but that's what I've heard is that yeah, you just you just uh you know, you get debt and now all of a sudden you owe them and you can either pay them more money or you can put in work or you can join them up and then that debt's forgiven. So if they don't have money, then you know that might be the option that they go with. And then maybe they'd you know I think that's where like not having like a good father in their house in their growing up might come into play. Like that might have been the first time they felt like someone cared about them, and that's kind of you know, kind of like m what kind of I started picking up on in my journey of take change in my life. It was like a lot of these kids just didn't have fathers, and so I think that that might be a reason why they would click up into a gang. For sure. They feel accepted for once, like a as a father figure in their life, yeah. Or or they just grew up around gangs, and so maybe when they went in, then that was just what they already knew, and that's what they grew up around. Maybe their brothers were in it and they just felt like maybe they were back in a family or something, you know. I think that might be a bigger part of it than they're being forced into it. Got it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36:46

What's the most What's the most bizarre thing that you've ever seen in prison?

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:55

So back in 2019, when I was working in a close custody unit, they had these race wars going on. That's what we called it at least. But it was like the Serenios and the Aryan Knights were just feuding. Um the the initial kickoff event was these um on the on the video, you see like the corporal, he's doing his check and everything. As soon as he walks off the tier, he had a filling, so he like radioed us. He's like, it feels weird in here. So we were all stacked up on the door just watching, because it was like uh one-sided windows. Okay. The film, so we could look in. He comes off the tier, you see like these white boys, they come off of the phones, and then they just go attack the Serenios, and that kicked it off. It was like probably like six on, I don't know, six on seven, something like that, somewhere in there. It was a big fight. So we roll the doors, and um this first dude, there's like three of us. The first dude just gets three-way blasted with OC bear canisters, like the big Mark 9s. Okay, like you just see like three-way.

SPEAKER_02: 1:37:56

Three streams just blasted, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:37:58

And then my buddy, he just like we called him Super Soaker, but he just was always just he was like deadly accurate with them. He's just like running and gunning, dude. He's just like getting all these dudes and spraying, running to the back. Well, these guys are all fighting and they're kind of working their way back towards the end of the tier. And there's this dude that wants to help his homies out, but he's in the shower, so he comes out swinging, he's naked, and he's in is just in the shower shoes, but he's just swinging, dude. He's just slipping and sliding, but like giving it all a yad, everything, super soaking, just goes and like starts from his tank, goes up to his face and sprays him. Butt ass naked. Dude's like slipping. Another white boy goes and uh kicks him like right in the face, like a big old judo kick, whatever. Just like he falls down, dude, and then the dude's naked, laying in an OC. The fight got um luckily, like it only lasted like maybe 10-15 seconds, but it was it was rampant. So that started off the race wars, but just seeing that dude coming out just butt ass naked, just swinging for his homies, was like the ultimate like loyalty thing. It was crazy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39:04

I need 10 friends like that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:39:06

Yeah, but then it gets weird, it gets worse though, because then that same guy, maybe like two or three months later, from what I hear, they found out that he ran with Nortanios on the street, this is Red Buddies, and they put it on work on him, and they're just walking the tears back and forth, and the one dude just takes off on him and just and he does it right at shift change. So everybody's like dropping gear, nobody's paying attention, and it's like right in a blind spot. It was you couldn't see it, like it's really nobody's fault. It just was terrible timing, and so the dude just takes off on him and just knocks him out, blood going everywhere, and uh their their gang rules is like you gotta keep going until you get the officer breaks you up, right? But nobody's coming. So he puts him into like the recovery position, like folds his knee up and everything, puts his arm under him, like so he doesn't choke on his own blood, and then walks a tear back and forth a couple times and then takes off on a band while he's still in the recovery position, dude. Just like I don't know if he was like starting to squirm or something or roll over, but dude's out, takes off on him again. Pretty much puts this dude in a coma. Um he did he did go into coma for like 30-40 days or something like that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:40:24

Damn.

SPEAKER_00: 1:40:25

The d the homie that came swinging out of the shower naked, and uh I was like, holy cow, this is a this is crazy. Wait, so his own crew turned on him? Yeah, because they found out that he was hanging out with other people on the streets is what I hear. I could be wrong, but that's what we've heard.

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:42

That is the most prison shit ever. Imagine that. You're fighting for your life, butt ass naked, getting OC'd, and then those dudes turn on you a month later.

SPEAKER_00: 1:40:49

Then the dude, the officer that took over on the next shift, which is actually Kyle's shift. He took over for us. But um, so Kyle might know better on this, but he's just walking the tier and then he's like, We got a medical emergency. He didn't even know what happened, he just sees this dude laying in blood, and he calls it as a medical emergency. He was pretty new, but that dude was Kyle? No, that wasn't Kyle, but it was on his shift. It was like the shift change, and then their first check. It was probably like 30, 40 minutes later. They found him that they found, yeah. And I was like, ooh. So there was a big internal investigation on that, like looking into all the officers and like what happened and everything. Because obviously, like that's but like big no no the checks were done on time. It's just the They caught him at the right time. Yeah, like right at shift changes is the worst time and the best time, I guess, for the inmates. But yeah, man, so that was that was like the crazy one. I was like, oh shit. But during that whole race war thing, man, that would pop off. They've come out eight cells at a time, and then it got to the point where we're like, all right, four cells at a time, you know, and cut their cut their time in half, so they still have the same amount of uh for that block, they still have the same amount of time, but instead of like an hour and a half, now they only got 45 minutes. Then they would fight on four cell walks and just go at it. And we it got to the point, man, where we were like going down the roster and we're like, this guy that these two are gonna fight. Like, we would call the response team, we would call the sergeants and stuff and be like, hey, we're we're pretty sure we're gonna have a fight. Can we get like the response team down here? Do you want us to let them out? And they're like, Well, we can't legally hold them into their cell. We have to give them the opportunity to be good and come out of their cell, even if we think that they're gonna fight, we can't we can't make that determination. Okay. So like, well, we'll we'll get like we'll get the response team right outside the door in case something happens, so it's a quick interruption, but we have to let them come out. So four cell walks, fights still happen. They went down to two cell walks, and I remember this one time on the two cell walks, we knew there was gonna be like a two-on-two. They were both two white boys, two two serenos, and they were like, This is they're gonna go. So it was two of us, and man, we they start fighting, and we dumped two Mark 9s, and there's just like orange everywhere. Man, these just guys wouldn't stop fighting. They're like laid on the ground, and it hid so much that eat away it ate away the enamel on the floor. So once they got them all taken to segregation, we're doing our checks, we're looking up from down up top, looking down, and it's just like body outlines where like the paint had it was nuts, man. Like you could see where the garbage can was, like, so much freaking OC. I was like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:25

Are you guys masked up?

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:26

Because nobody wins in that situation, so you're getting it too. We're getting it, yeah. We got it. I mean, you got a lot of OC in that unit. We were I mean, that whole time they had a trash bag in control where you had to go and swap out your used OC for a new one. They had just a G-block control of just like bunches of them. It was just a it was a bad time, man.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:49

Like they just Okay, so if you got a race war going on, you got the whites and the the the Mexicans going at it, as an officer, you can't just be like, hey, let's just let out all the whites, and then you can't segregate by gangs or race inside of there. Like, to me, that makes sense. Like that you're gonna let out all the serranios at once, because then who are they fucking with?

SPEAKER_00: 1:44:11

Yeah, but then at that point they're running it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:44:15

Is them all running it for that hour or two that they're let out worse than fuck DC?

SPEAKER_00: 1:44:21

Numbers just don't add up though. What do you mean? Like the serenos are way outnumbered than any other gang. So that just logistically it wouldn't work. Okay. Just because of numbers, like like we had some Nortanios in there, but that was the smallest of them all. Like there was maybe only ten of them in the whole institution. So I mean, and then you're there like 30, 30 times as many serenos, right? So because the serenos would like take white boys too, you know. It didn't matter if you were only Mexican or not. Oh no shit. They were like they were equal opportunity employers, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:44:56

How do the white boys take that? It is what it is, I don't know. Like I always telling me the gayest dudes in prison are the white dudes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:04

Yeah, I mean, I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:07

That's he worked at Mac's, and that's you know he said those guys would do anything to hide to hide their their little secrets was the the Aryan dudes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:16

Yeah, I have no clue on that. I mean, I've definitely heard rumors, but like I've never caught it personally. Um I've caught more like some of the softwalk dudes doing some some sketchy stuff. Like what? Just like the gay stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:27

Oh how is that walking up on a cell and you're just are you prepared? No, you're never prepared, man. I mean, when you're walking and you're just like you gotta look in everyone, does it just become numb and you're just like, oh my god. I mean, because you never know what you're gonna see when you look in a cell.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:42

Yeah, I mean, sometimes you'll catch it, um, sometimes it'll just be like some weird stuff. You're like, oh, these pants are down. All right, I think something's going on. And that's most of the time what happens, like, I think something happened here, and then you'll call investigations, they'll separate them, they'll interview them, and then they'll find out. Um, so that's like the stuff that I've seen. I've never actually seen them like in the full act. Yeah. But it's more like, hey, let's get this investigations down here, let's check this out. It was they seemed kind of sketchy, right? Um, but like I I don't know about the white boys. I I've heard some rumors for sure, but some interesting things for you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:46:16

Yeah. Okay, so as a as a correctional officer, what's something that you would you'd look past? Like, what's something that you let the inmates get away with that probably well that was against what they were supposed to be doing?

SPEAKER_00: 1:46:33

Um, I mean, for me, I think in the close custody unit for sure, like the tattooing. I it it was really cool to find a tattoo gun when I started because they had to use magnets and it was like a craft to make a tattoo gun. Like they would use their aux cord and plug that in for their power source and everything. But then they got to the point where they could just order an electric razor or like a beard shaver, and it was a quiet rotary motor, and it was like your personalized tattoo gun. It was the easiest thing. I'd catch dudes tattooing, and it got to the point where I was just like, Man, just give me your needle, give me your ink, like put your razor back together because they could take it apart in like two seconds, slip their piece on to put the needle in, and then if they heard a door close, they could take it apart, put it back together real quick. It was like those beer trimmers are a straight up tattoo gun, so it just came to the point where they could order for like 30 bucks on commissary. So it didn't really it didn't really make sense to take it from them anymore. I mean you could, but it other than they're in close custody, like I would rather them know like I'm giving you a gray area, there's other parts I need you to respect on, like when I ask you to do stuff. Yeah, I'm not gonna write you a DOR right now. I am gonna take your needle because that's a I'll I'll make it more inconvenient for you than anything. I'll take your ink, and that would like gain some respect, but they'd also know, like, alright, he he cut us some slack, but he still is doing what he needs to. Um but that was my big one, is like uh the tattooing thing, and and then you would write them DORs, and a lot of times they would just get dropped. So it's more of a waste of time then it was yeah, it just became like, is it worth it, you know? Yeah, it's more worth it. Like, I'll just and I sometimes I would just tell them, like, let me watch you flush down your your stuff. Because they would just that was what they would do to get rid of contraband anyway. Like, let me watch you flush your stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:18

See, I feel like that's the best way to be a CEO. Like, there's that fine line of just being an asshole and flipping cells and just making a dude's life hell because they have nothing to do besides think, yeah, plan, and plot. Yep. And like, and that was a big thing. Like when we were overseas, I never got joy of just fucking with these people because it was. I mean, there's some stupid shit we would do, but like normal homes, like, why are we tearing this house up? We can look through this without, and then you know, a month later you go there and they're they're they're ratting things out. Hey, these guys are moving across rivers at night. Hey, there's cachets down in the palm groves here, look on the eye. So it would get you much farther just being a human and treating them like humans, and that's why I always like asking correctional officers because there's some guys that are so like contraband is contraband, and then I feel like those officers get marked, yeah, and then the guy that's like, yo, like clean the shit up. It's not this isn't gonna kill somebody, it's not gonna do anything, but it is illegal, just clean your shit up, and then that shows that inmate, like, oh, okay, cool. Like, yeah, he is by the book, but like he's not gonna just be a dick about it just to be a dick.

SPEAKER_00: 1:49:27

Right. Like they would say, like, if they have over a certain amount of fruit, you need to take it because that's how they make their their squawky or their prison alcohol, right? And so, like, those are some of the areas I'd kind of turn to. Like, I can tell, like, if you got like two or three rather than just having one, I'm like, I'm not gonna take this, bro. Like, you know, I just stupid stuff like that, where you would get like these newer officers that come straight from post and they're like taking everything that's like they pretty much have their list of like what they can and can't have. And I mean, there's a time and place for that, and that's like you do that when they have just you know staff assaulted someone in your unit, and then you like, okay, we're taking you guys back down to books, right? Or like, you know, there's times and place where you can crack down on rules not going overboard, but they know, like, alright, there's no more leniency anymore, like you guys fucked up. Yep. But just for like everyday stuff, man, we would we would try and you know do cell searches and not ruin their room, right? We would just do what we need to do, put stuff back where it goes. Like it really stuck with me when you know, like just seeing people that I grew up with in there, and I'm like, I'm not gonna screw it with these guys, man. Like, like, sure, if they if they mess with me, you know, I'll take care of business in the in this in the moment, but like I don't know, I just it just became a point, like probably about year three. I was like, alright, man. That's where you mellowed out, you found your groove at year three. Yeah, I was like a shit stick, man. Honestly, like for the first two years, I was not I had I had this really good um lieutenant at the time. He's like a warden downtown now, Ross shout out. But um, he took me aside, he wasn't even my my manager or like um supervisor anything. He's just like, Matt, I see a potential in you, but the word on the street is you work harder to get out of work than you do to do the work. He's like, I want you to like really apply yourself, man. Like, I see something in you. And I was like, Well, I just don't really have that before, you know. Like everybody would always give me their their like end-of-year criticism, but it never talked to me throughout the year.

SPEAKER_02: 1:51:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:51:30

And this dude like just pulled me aside, wasn't even my supervisor, but like had high, high marks. Um, like everybody respected him, well respected. I'm sure that uh Leg, he was probably a cert commander, like because he was like the cert commander at the time. And uh, but everybody just like you know, he's a really good dude. And he's like, I started out when I was like straight out of high school, man. Like I could see myself a lot and you like you you can you can do better though, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:51:56

Did that mean a lot to you at that point? Because you I mean coming from the childhood, your dad, I don't want to say was absent because obviously he was home, but gone a lot working. Did you look at him as like a father figure? I mean, did that hit more like personal because he took that little bit of time to just sit and talk to you and yeah, especially since it wasn't his job.

SPEAKER_00: 1:52:18

Like I wasn't his to you know do that for and just to like not call me out, but call me up, right? Sure. Like I needed that, and I needed someone just to like call me on my shit right then and there and be like, this is what you need to work on. And I had another guy too that was my actual lieutenant at or the sergeant at the time, and and he took me under his wing and was like, you know, same thing, like, dude, I can see potential in you. Um and I could tell like when a bull someone's bullshitting me and he wasn't bullshit, and he's like, But you're fucking up in all these other spots, so I need you to work on these things. Like I had like nine call-offs the previous year. He's like, dude, no, like you're not just screwing over you're screwing over like two people because now someone's gonna have to cover for you and then someone's gonna have to do overtime, someone's gonna have to hold over, someone's gonna have to come in early. He's like, You need to stop thinking about yourself. Like he's like, Dad, like you know, just really like drilling it home to me, and I was like, all right, cool, I need this. And uh so then I just from that point on I started taking it more seriously of like alright, I guess I'm gonna retire here, you know. And if I'm I didn't have any aspirations to do anything else, I was like, I was always told like this is a good state job, which you know, sure. But I was like, I'm gonna retire here, and started taking it seriously, and and uh and then that's when I started working in that close custody unit, and I was like, I'm gonna take the hardest unit there is. Nobody I was at that point when I was with that sergeant, I was just relief still. So I was like, But they had a couple of vacancies in there, and I was like, hey, just plug me in there every day. Just plug me in, even though it's not my spot. I was like, nobody else wants it, I'll take it. And so I did. And then um I just started taking it more seriously and like not being such a super cop as they would say, you know, like looking at these guys, like, all right, you guys live here, you alright, you know? Yeah. And there's like, I'm not like a hug-a-thug. I was still, you know, doing my shit and I would talk. It was cool because like the close custody guys, you could talk shit to them, you know, because they would talk shit to you, and then you have to you could talk shit back to them. However, like don't be a brand new guy and try and talk shit. Like, you haven't gained that yet.

SPEAKER_02: 1:54:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's definitely a respect thing or a time thing for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 1:54:24

Like we had this one guy that um, like I said, if if their the hardwalk door accidentally rolls and there's a softwalk out, it's like fight on site. They have to run out of their subs. Explain that. So like the softwalk guys, they're no good. They're like dropouts of the gang, right? But they're usually on like the top, the top walk upstairs. There's like two walks, and and so they would come out like eight cells at a time, but they're like right in front of the hardwalk dudes. And so a lot of times they like try and just talk to them through the doors or whatever, like they'd sometimes you'd see them like sliding soups or whatever under the their door or whatever, right? But at the end of the day, like if that door accidentally pops, they gotta come out and whoop some ass. How does a door accidentally pop? It unfortunately happened a lot. How? You would just think that like you had six tiers running at a time.

SPEAKER_02: 1:55:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:55:15

And there's like either you had wreck going on or you had day rooms going on, or both at the same time. You had some things where people just like, hey, I'm doing a cell search, pop this door or whatever, but there's the control officers, it's all touch screen, so he's just like all over the spot. And if he thinks he's on tier three, but he's actually on tier four or whatever, and he hits like tier two cell one, but he meant to hit tier one cell one or something like that. He didn't realize that, and all of a sudden it pops. You can't just close it. Once that door rolls, it's open until you close it right manually, or is it button control? No, you can't you can't close it by a button. You have to go and close it manually. Now they've changed it. There's little door slides on now. Okay. It took a few years. I mean, I think they didn't do that until in the twenties.

SPEAKER_02: 1:56:00

Like, so could a correctional officer just accidentally like set it up and open up to catch a guy?

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:07

I mean, theoretically, I guess you could. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of heat that would come on your ass.

SPEAKER_02: 1:56:12

But how do you know?

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:13

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it could. I I had a situation. Well, I guess I'll finish this first story, but like, so there's this dude that his door got popped, and they're just watching TV, their shoes are off in their cell, they're in their socks, but they pop, and so they come out swinging, but they're in their socks, and it's like on wax floors, they're just slipping and sliding trying to get it. Well the dude they took off on on the phone was this black boxer. They didn't know he was a boxer, but dude just handled them both, yeah, and just took care of business. Everybody got sprayed, but um, so every time after that, the guy that got rocked that came out in his socks was just like, Hey man, you got your socks on? You ready to go? Okay, just making sure. All right. He's like, I can fight, I can fight. I was like, dude, you got participation awards, bud. Because he's like, I got D awards to prove. I was like, those are participation awards. So it was just like you you had that fun, like back and forth, but I'd see some new people come in and try and do that, and they're like, Alright, dude, we're gonna take him off the tier real quick. He doesn't understand this yet, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:57:12

Yeah, you're not you're not on their level. You haven't been accepted into this tier.

SPEAKER_00: 1:57:16

Yeah. We did have this one time, which was like the biggest serious incident review that I ever had on myself and like the whole unit, but there was this dude on on tier five doing all the meds and everything, and uh all of a sudden he just calls, you're like, I need I need the tier five rec door or the fire door. I'm like, what's going on? And um so we just open it, and then all of a sudden we look over and there's like this big old fight on tier six, and there and then he's over there just spraying everybody, like, and so we're trying to dump everybody out of the control unit. We were all in there, and uh so we're dumping them all out to go in. But somehow, like the the fire door had popped open between the two tiers, and he had all Serenos on this tier and all Nortenos on this tier.

SPEAKER_02: 1:58:05

What's the Northeños are outnumbered?

SPEAKER_00: 1:58:07

Yeah, okay, yeah. Um so so that launched like a huge incident review. That was crazy because we we already had like a whole bucket full of the zip restraints just ready to go in case anything big popped off, and that was the first time and only time I think that we have ever used them. Because everybody, didn't matter if you were white or if you were a sirenio or notaneous or whatever, like everybody was getting restrained. And I was like, I it didn't click to me what was going on. I was like seeing Nortanios coming off white boys, and I was like, why is there sirenios? And I was like, Oh shoot, something happened. That's why I said five-six. Well come to find out like that they were talking through the fire door, and like you could see you see in the video where they like goes to talk through the crack and he just pops back, so like when he touched it, the door just popped open. So they went and got all their homies on tier five, and like everybody got all laced up and everything, and they like knew a freebie. Yeah, so then they all go over there, and then that's when the guy that was doing meds called that he's like, I need tier five, because he was going over there, and boy, he was alone by himself. And by the time we got all the other officers in there, he had dumped his whole Mark IX, whole Mark IV, and just like doubled up with everybody. Like, this dude's a champ. And so that launches a huge serious incident review, and it's like the day before Christmas when they do this review.

SPEAKER_02: 1:59:31

Of course.

SPEAKER_00: 1:59:32

And I'm the very last one because I was a control officer controlling the board, and they're trying to get like everybody to turn on me. They're like, Did he is there like, did he accidentally like touch a button? Was it like what did he open the door? Like, was it on purpose? Was it next? Like, just go and like trying any way that they can. And they're like, it's like a three step process to open a door. You have to click it, and then you have to like select and then make sure, yes, or whatever, right? Like it's he didn't do it on purpose, but they were doing it on everybody. And I was the very last one. I had to hold over on my shift just to wait to do that. Oh no shit. But they were trying to get me to like just say that was an accident and everything like that. And like nobody turned on anybody. We didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_02: 2:00:16

The door just was never like properly s like locked.

SPEAKER_00: 2:00:19

So what they found out was that the night before they um the graveyard shift was using those fire doors to do their checks. So instead of like coming off the tier and then going to the next one and then going on, they would just go like straight across to the next one. So they're taking a shortcut. We all did that on graveyard. It's it was frowned upon, but everybody did it. It's not like it was their fault. What that was their fault was when they went through, they thought that it closed, but it never closed. And then our shift, this happened at like 12, 1 o'clock in the afternoon. Our shift, that whole shift didn't check the fire doors like we were supposed to. So that was on us. Because if we would have done that, we would have realized it was open. But as soon as that happened, then uh it launched, you know, they went through the door and huge fight. So that was like the biggest one. It was crazy. And uh and that was like the end of our year, and then I went to transport after that, which was like I'm glad that they already picked me for transport before this happened because I don't know if I would have got that.

SPEAKER_02: 2:01:13

Do you I mean I know you weren't in Max, but did you find any crazy weapons or see any cra like shanks? I mean, what what are some of the things that dudes are making weapons out of in there?

SPEAKER_00: 2:01:22

The biggest weapons that we found in there were um on a couple native guys. They had I and to this day, I just don't think anybody ever found out where they got these metal pieces from, but like it was in their shoe, and the blade was the length of their shoe, like men's shoes, and it looked like a tanto knife, like a straight knife, and then like they took some sheets and did like a really nice weaving on the handle, and like it was it was a quality blade. Like, if you want to put that on your wall, that's a sick one to keep. But it was like that one's doing some damage, man, and they both had one, and it was both in their shoes, and that was like they're doing a strip out in the in the um bathroom or in the the showers, and they're like, give us your shoes, and then they kicked off their shoes, and the doors were still open at that point, and he goes and opens it and he sees I'm like calling for everybody, hurries and slams them in there. Not like slam, they didn't fight back, but locked him in there because he's like, Who knows what's gonna happen? You got a big ass blade right here now. That was the biggest one that I've seen. Yeah, I mean you'd see like other little ones, they would sharpen little pieces of metal or whatever, but those two, those were those were gutters. Blades. Yeah. Those are doing damage. Oh, for sure. I've never seen anything like that getting used. I've heard about some some nasty stuff and fights.

SPEAKER_02: 2:02:39

I watched a video not too long ago that this dude was getting worked with locks. Oh, lock in a sock, yeah. And the sound it was making it was god awful.

SPEAKER_00: 2:02:47

Those are rough, yeah. I've seen I've seen those. See, that's a thing, huh? That's a thing, yeah. They don't get padlocks in close custody, though. Oh, okay. So they might put something else in there. But in close custody, that's the first thing that gets taken from them is their padlock. And medium security, they can lock up their stuff, but that's one of the things that gets taken from them.

SPEAKER_02: 2:03:05

That's a hell of a weapon. Yeah. Hard little chunk of metal that you could swing pretty fast on a sock. Yeah. Doing some damage. It hits you anywhere in the head, you're getting split every time.

SPEAKER_00: 2:03:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:03:17

God. Okay, so you end up going to transport. I've never talked to anybody in transport. I actually, one of my best friends, we did two deployments in together to Iraq. He's in Oregon, he's transport, and he loves it. He says it's the greatest job in the whole entire correctional facility. Do you feel the same way?

SPEAKER_00: 2:03:38

Yeah, I would not have lasted as long as I did if I didn't go to transport for sure. No shit. Yeah. What's so good about transport? You're just disconnected from everybody. You're not in an institution, you're not doing cell searches, you're not doing anything. Like the first year I was on transport, I did town hospital.

SPEAKER_02: 2:03:53

So we just would take them to their doctor's appointments and come back and Okay, so if you're dealing with these dudes, so are these the guys that are like you're dealing with the mentally ill that are hurting themselves and taking them to the hospital and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_00: 2:04:05

Those would be more like emergency transports. So they would usually put a couple officers that are on that institution and take them. Okay. If they needed us and we were we had staff available, they might staff us in there, but most of the time those emergency runs would be done by officers that are already on the unit. Okay on the institution.

SPEAKER_02: 2:04:22

So what's a day in and day like out for a transport officer?

SPEAKER_00: 2:04:26

Um, so when I was just the town side doing like the uh medical appointments, yeah, they would just give us a list of you know where we gotta go and which institutions, because we were like a centralized transport unit. We weren't just for that institution. So we would take care of Max, the women's, everybody in that area. There's like five prisons out there. Yeah. So we would take care of everybody, and then you know, we'd we got to see some cool stuff. I mean, when an inmate gets a surgery, like a hip replacement or something, we're in the operating room with them. In case something happens, he wakes up in the middle of it, like goes crazy.

SPEAKER_02: 2:04:59

That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00: 2:05:00

I gotta see an open heart surgery. That was pretty cool. My buddy, my hunting buddy, his sister works in the St. Al's open heart area, and she like gave us a full tour, man. Like, she put it all up on the big screen for us to watch, and like you get to see a heart just go from no blood to like shrinking down, they just suck all the blood out of it, and just see the inside of a dude's chest, like all up on the screen. They don't let us in the room on that one, they don't, but on the other ones, man, like hip replacements. Um shoot, I've seen I mean, cauterizing smell is pretty gross. I'll tell you that. That's that's one of the things that I never thought I'd get a smell. But that's that's nasty. Yeah, but it's cool, like a lot of the stuff that you get to see, like gallbladder surgeries, like they use this Da Vinci machine, the dude's over the surgeon's over here in the corner, and he's like running it. He's yeah, it's like a video game, man. He's like looking in a machine, and there's this robot that's in your body, and this dude doing all the work. It's crazy, man. Some of this cool stuff that they got.

SPEAKER_02: 2:05:56

And you get to do all this and because you're not in the at the flagpole anymore, you actually get to watch these guys go through all their stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 2:06:03

Yeah, that's pretty rad. It's cool to see the doctors change, you know, like when they go into a surgery, okay. They'll be like all professional and stuff. The patients out, they're just regular dudes, man. They're putting on like yeah, they're putting on like Leonard Skinner, whatever. They're just like rocking out and they're just cool dudes.

SPEAKER_02: 2:06:19

You're just sitting there like, what the fuck am I doing here?

SPEAKER_00: 2:06:21

Yeah. This is insane. Yeah. It's it's a cool spot though. This the crappy part is like if their surgery recovery takes a while and you're like stuck over, because a lot of times they won't let them go home until they pee or something, right? So those kind of sucked sometimes, but it was worth it, man. You gotta see some cool stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 2:06:39

What's your biggest stress, I guess, being a transport officer? Are you worried of like the movies of like someone trying to like break someone out, or is that all just Hollywood, or is that or is that a concern for you guys?

SPEAKER_00: 2:06:52

That's definitely a concern. Um, because a lot of these inmates end up having reoccurring appointments. Oh, okay. Like cancer, cancer patients, like they would go to you know, get chemo like it routinely, right? So it's you definitely had to be wary of it. Okay. Um, we never had anything like that happen. We did run into like sometimes they would just happen to run into family that was in there or or a friend that they would see or something in there, but we never had that escape, an escape happen. They did, you know, have that escape last year happen at the prison or at the St. Al's where they shot that guy.

SPEAKER_02: 2:07:26

I didn't hear about this.

SPEAKER_00: 2:07:28

Oh yeah. Well, that wasn't like for a transport, but it was it was um yeah, they got out. It was Skyler Mead, and he had said that he swallowed some razor blades. He was like ahead of the AKs, one of the and then it was like a whole escape attempt, and he got he went to the um emergency room at like three or like midnight or something, ended up refusing refusing uh treatment finally, and just said, No, I don't want treatment anymore. And then at like three in the morning they are walking out to the um the vehicle to take him back, and they had an ambush waiting and and shot all the officers, and then me escaped, and then they went up to Orifino and Lewiston area and killed two people and then got caught back in their hometown in Twin Falls the next day.

SPEAKER_02: 2:08:15

This happened last year?

SPEAKER_00: 2:08:16

Yeah, it was March 20th. I've never heard of this. I just had the officer on my podcast that got shot. Really? Yeah. I did not hear about any of this. Really? Yeah, made like national national national news. I don't watch a lot of the news for a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02: 2:08:29

Yeah, I guess I worked it, but I feel like I would I would have definitely have heard about that. Yeah, March 6th. No kidding.

SPEAKER_00: 2:08:36

But that was um and the interesting part on that was I guess when they had looked back, he had gone out on a couple runs like weeks prior with our people. Okay. So maybe like just trying to figure out like where parking was and everything like that. I don't know. But yeah, it was all all planned. What a wild world.

SPEAKER_02: 2:08:55

Yeah, officer life.

SPEAKER_00: 2:08:57

But I only did that part. I only did the the town side for the first year. And then what's then I went state. What's state? Uh the prison bus. You were driving the you got to drive the prison bus? Yeah, I got my CDL and the Mad Max bus or what? Dude, you wouldn't even know it's a prison bus.

SPEAKER_02: 2:09:11

It looks just like a greyhound bus. You would not even it's not marked? Uh-uh. Are the state ones the marked ones where you see like the white buses? Those are those.

SPEAKER_00: 2:09:20

They're white buses, but they're not marked. Oh, they're not? Uh-uh. They're white and oh, you're thinking of like the the school bus looking like the military that has? Yeah, yeah. We don't have no, these are looking like greyhounds. They're like coach, coach buses. Really? Inside's been gutted out, and then they have like the plastic seating and the cages, and but on the outside, you just think it was another coach bus.

SPEAKER_02: 2:09:41

Okay, so where are you taking these guys? The different states? Are you transporting like prisoner transport or true what do they call it? Tri prisoners?

SPEAKER_00: 2:09:49

All of ours was in town or in in uh state. Okay. So we would go all the way up from like Court Elaine and then hit all the counties on the way down, or there's another prison up in Orfino. We'd stop and um pick up some of their inmates or take inmates up to the other institutions. There's another one in Cottonwood, and then there's an East Run, and that would go all the way out to like s the St. Anthony prisons and Pocatello women's. So you're moving prisoners all around the whole state.

SPEAKER_02: 2:10:13

Okay. So when you're in these areas that don't have service, because we have a lot of that here, is that kind of sketch? I mean, are you always like waiting for something to pop off?

SPEAKER_00: 2:10:21

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely uh there's only like a couple routes that we can take, and I mean, really, we only take one route. So it's it's not like it's anything It's not a secret. Yeah, you can figure it out. If there's definitely spots, like especially on the North Run, there there's no there's no cell service from like New Meadows to Riggins, there's a little bit in Riggins, and then you got nothing from like Riggins to Grangeville, and then you know stretches of hours that you're out of service going on that road. It's not really the escaping you worry about, but if there's bus problems or you know, you go off the road or anything like that, or if you do have an emergency, like a medical emergency on the bus, and there's no cell service, like that that parking gets sketchy. Did you ever ins have any of those problems? We never we never had that part on my bus. There was some times where they had like some mechanical issues or something that they had to get figured out, and then they just kind of were able to limp it to the next town to be able to get service and get figured out, but the hell do you deal with a bunch of inmates when you you got bus problems? Yeah. Um if it's close enough to a county, we can get them into a county and get them into like a holding area. Okay. Um if it's close enough to a prison, they'll just send some vans and we'll just offload them into there and then and then figure it out. I mean, that's really just figure it out, man. Yeah. Um, but that that was honestly like the the best. I I love the transport. Like it was you're away from all the shit. Yeah. It was great. I mean, they know that you're all strapped and everything, so they're not gonna try anything stupid. Sometimes the only thing you'd have to worry about is if you didn't put the restraints on tight enough, they could like try and just take them off, and then they would just be holding them because they didn't want them on. I think in the whole time that I was there, only one person ever used them as a weapon, like was swinging, but that was like on just um from like an institution to institution, like a five-minute drive. Yeah, and they they went off. But like most part it was pretty chill, man. It was, you know, they at least at least on our run. For some reason, the north run was easy. Like they they were all either going when they were taking them up to Cottonwood, that's like the riders, that's like the guys are only doing like six months. Okay. It's kind of like their their therapy, therapeutic uh treatment kind of stuff, which was good. And then we'd take them to Orfina, which that was like more of like a PC prison they turned it into. Like, um, so that was it was chill. But then people on like the East Run, a lot of times they would be more rowdy because they'd be getting kicked out of like the work camps. Yeah. So then they're like just shitbags on the way back, like they're mad and stuff, you know. Yeah, yeah, I guess. On the way there, they're cool, like they're I'm gonna go to work camp, and then they get kicked out because like they get caught like seeing their girlfriend on like their work breaks or whatever at the place where they have you know, chew or whatever, right? Like just pretty much breaking their probation, and then they get kicked out. Just stupid stuff, but then they're all pissed off, and then they try and take it out on you. But I think the worst one is when we had to take buses of women, those are the worst, man. Why? Just terrible. Like the hygiene is terrible. Um, just man, like it was I hated those. They're so loud. Like you try and you try and just like tune them out, man. But ah man, you can't turn the music up loud enough for those buses. They're just loud. No shit. Yeah. The women are the worst, they're the worst, dude. What's wrong with their hygiene? They just stink? Stink, they don't take care of themselves. It's not like you would think a women's like they would be all like prim and proper. Nah, dude, you're getting the nine out of ten times, you're getting the bottom of the barrel, bro. It's gross. No shit. It's gross. Sometimes you get like free bleeders, and then they just like bleed all over their stuff, and they're like, I don't do that. I'm like, this is disgusting. They like uh the women pee themselves a lot. They can't hold their bladder, maybe from like having babies or whatever, but like I've never any of this. Yeah, we I mean we have like designated bathroom breaks, but like they'll just and then sometimes they won't even tell you, they'll just be walking off the bus, and you're looking like, oh my gosh, just soaked. It got gross.

SPEAKER_02: 2:14:23

Whoa. Yeah. I am so glad I'm not a woman. That is one thing where I will go to war, I will defend my family, I will climb mountains and fucking fight bears with my bare hands than not have a period. Yeah. That is one thing. I am like, y'all got it. Like, yeah, I am so glad I don't have to deal with that shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:14:46

Fuck that. I worked with this old timer that he retired just uh like last year, but man, it was so fun working with him. But when we had bus fulls of women, man, he would just let them have it. He would just call him like the cackling hens and stuff. He's like, Quiet down. It's like the funniest thing, man. Like the biggest hunter. I love talking to him. He's the funniest guy. Like just a grumpy, like back in my day, this didn't happen. Like, just the funniest dude. Like, I loved working with him, but he uh yeah, he him and I were on that that female run every Thursday for a whole year. That was our our run. Was there ever like a calm time with the chicks, or are they just always um on the way back? Like sometimes if they were going to like a working, like if we had taken like East Boise awake work or something, or if it was like a smaller one, then they'd be quiet. But other times, man, I'd just be like it was it was rough. Yeah, I take it.

SPEAKER_02: 2:15:38

So you're saying you would rather deal with the male male inmates over female inmates? All day, dude. No shit.

SPEAKER_00: 2:15:44

They're the worst. Really? Yeah. I've never here's the here's the fun part, not like fun part, but like the the funny to me is like when I'm getting them from counties and we have like just bins of of jumpsuits, man. And these girls will be like, I'm a medium, and I'm like, which leg? I'm like, here's your three X. Like, what are you talking about here?

SPEAKER_02: 2:16:10

You're like, honey. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:16:14

I'm not trying to be mean, but we're gonna go with that. Here's your 3X, let me know. And then they'd be like, Can I get a 4X? I'm like, oh, I told you. It was like You're like, you're not a Schmedium anymore. I'm sorry, honey. Yeah. I used a lot of big boy restraints on girls too. Like they, I'm telling you, man, like the ones that go to prison, they just love their commissary. Yeah, they get big in there, they go. What's the hardest part of dealing with female um inmates? Oh, dude, they're some of the nastiest women to hear talk. Like, you think guys talk sexually? Oh my gosh, we're sitting in like the back officer station, and you think that you're just listening to like some nasty OnlyFans stuff is just gross. Some of the really they are gross, they are way worse than any bus I've ever had full of dudes. Like a guy might talk about that he was with a chick or something, but like chicks will get disgusting.

SPEAKER_01: 2:17:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:17:09

That's why they're all into that smut shit with frickin' what's that book that all the women were all frickin' schooning over a couple years ago. The Fifty Shades of Grey? Yeah, that shit. Yeah, they they need that visual, like they gotta hear and see it. Dude, I learned that when I was bouncing. I went I got hired to be a bouncer for a while. That's when I realized how disgusting women are compared to men, because at the end of the night we'd sweep the whole everything, and you'd go into these the women's bathroom, and dude, like trashed, like tampons on the floor where they just flopped them there, and dude, you're just looking at shit and toilet paper with shit on it on the floor, and I'm just like, this isn't a nice restaurant that would turn into like a club, and you go into the guy's one, yeah. There's piss on the floor, like under the urinals and stuff, like that would be it, and then like the chick's bathroom, fuck, dude. As soon as I didn't ever had to step foot in that again, and we got a new guy, I was like, that's your job. Like, that's when I would go home and like tell the wife, like, bro, the women are the nastiest creatures ever, and she'd be like, You have no idea. And that's when I got a taste of everyone wants to think like guys are the vulgar, disgusting ones, but when you get into like the behind the scenes of any community-based women shit, dude, they're the wildest. That's just yeah, solidifies all of that.

SPEAKER_00: 2:18:29

I never worked in a female prison, but I've talked to some officers that did, and they're like, it's exactly what you'd think. It's I would love to talk to an officer in a female prison. Yeah, just gross. I think I think that the the work centers are better because then they can go and actually shop at stores and actually like present themselves, but those other ones, it's rough, man. Interesting. How did you lose the tip of your finger? Oh, I was born that way, man. You were born that way? Yeah, I don't have a knuckle. And I'm a knuckle. I saw your hand for a second, I'm like, damn, did you blow the tip of your finger up? Like, I don't have a knuckle on here and I'm a knuckle on this one, so like, yeah. No shit. Yeah, and then this one's just like lower. I mean, yeah. I was just born that way, man. Yeah, I saw you move for a second, and I thought you were like chopped off or something. It's never done me any weird, but I mean, because you're born with it, you don't know what real life's like, right? No knuckle, huh? Yeah, no. I think they just said my metacarpal bone is small, so it's back here. It's only a short. I actually went on a on an inmate transport to a hand doctor one time, and they it was really cool. This dude reminded me of Doctor Strange, just really chill dude. But he's like doing this live x-ray machine on the dude's hand, and I was like, I was just messing with him. I was like, hey doc, what do you got to fix this? And he's like, Oh, let me see what that is, man. You put me under the live x-ray machine. He's like, Oh, wow, that's cool, dude. What we could do is we could actually take like a little piece from your hip bone, we could just put that in there. Yeah, we could totally fix that. He's like, I'm good. No, I'm good, dude. I'd be like, I've never he's like, I've never seen that before. That's cool.

SPEAKER_02: 2:19:55

Inmates sitting there, like, what the fuck? Yeah. That's cool though. Yeah, that's no shit.

SPEAKER_00: 2:20:00

But yeah. No, that that was cool though.

SPEAKER_02: 2:20:03

Um what an interesting journey that the correctional life is.

SPEAKER_00: 2:20:06

Yeah. Yeah, it's been I mean, it was really good, and I honestly thought I was gonna retire.

SPEAKER_02: 2:20:13

Yeah. What made you change that idea? What was your aha moment that the correctional world was not gonna be a retirement job for you?

SPEAKER_00: 2:20:24

Um when I got on that on that run for the Quarterline run, there's just a lot of downtime. And so instead of listening to music, I started listening to books. Okay. Because I just like I can't listen to music anymore. I listen to a lot of podcasts too. Yeah. Um kind of started to see my life like going bad. Like my drinking was getting out of hand. Okay. I always had part-time jobs while working in the prison just because I liked it. And there was times where I just needed to get out of debt too, but I always drank at my part-time jobs, like on the clock. Yeah. That's a sign. Um so like yeah, I would be working at Dick's sporting goods with a Yeti cup that they would give us for Christmas, and I just was popping courses light, walking the floor with it.

SPEAKER_02: 2:21:07

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_00: 2:21:07

Just talking to inmates. I mean, at that point I was probably just trying to see what I could get away with. Just whatever. I didn't really care about the job, but yeah. I started driving drunk sometimes, you know. Like, there was a point where I told my wife, we we were both drunk at a party, and I was like, I need you to drive home, because if you get pulled over, you won't lose your job, but I will. And I was like, that's kind of fucked, you know. Like thinking back, I'm like, I I was just going really downhill. I um I just didn't like the dad I was becoming, you know. It's like so I started looking into like losing weight. I think that a lot of the podcasts I listened to were people that were in shape and I admired yeah. I know you don't like Cam Hanes, but I loved Cam Haynes. I don't like it for his I don't like it for his uh bow hunting. I just like I mean any dude that can run that much, yeah. I don't I it's all good. You know, so like Cam Haynes, I liked um you know, Jocko Willink and all like a lot of those dudes, like I don't know about their careers, but um their mindset and everything, like I just really wasn't drawn to that. Like Jock um David Goggins was like I think I really like David Goggins because of his childhood abuse. Yep. And so I was like, if if these guys have gone through this stuff in their childhood and made something of themselves, for sure, like let's let's at least see what traits they all have in common. It was like getting in shape. Yeah. So I was like, Alright, so in 2023, I was like my New Year's resolution wasn't to get in shape, it was just to work on my discipline. Because I realized that my discipline was a real issue. It wasn't it wasn't the eating, it was like I didn't have discipline to not eat. I am disciplined to go to the gym, I didn't have any discipline.

SPEAKER_02: 2:22:40

So I was like Which is a it's probably the root of all evil when it comes to men and their f just their self awareness, their physical fitness. It's just it's discipline, it's not you don't have to go and lose a hundred pounds immediately, you don't have to go run 20 miles every day and do all this crazy shit. It's just starting the routine and starting that discipline is massive. I mean, how did it change your life?

SPEAKER_00: 2:23:05

Yeah, so I um I got it's weird how it happened when um we had our we had our our third kid was autistic, right? So so that kind of that kind of was scared me, and um I didn't want to have any more kids after that, man. I was like kind of afraid that I was gonna have another autistic kid and I couldn't even handle the first one I had. I was all irritable and like wasn't good for me, which was good for me actually. Like it was not thing sent from God to give me patience. Absolutely. Um But I was really like not wanting another kid, and then my wife wanted another one, and I was like, nah, go back and forth. Like you can't have three and a half kids, right? So I was like, I'll give you till like April, my birthday to get pregnant. If you don't get pregnant, then you can't ever ask me again, right? And this is like January 1st, dude. We go on a cruise to Mexico. I think we got too close to the equator because two weeks later she was pregnant, you know? Yup. And I'm like, we taking sugar cubes or what's going on here, man. Like, this is crazy. I was I was like doing the math in my head, I was like, it's gotta take her at least like a month and a half to get off, like out of her system. I should be alright. Like, I'll be I'll time her ovulation, like like I'll sneak by, bro. Nah. So my way of getting back at her, which is weird, is like, I'm just not gonna drink anymore, which is weird because she can't drink now either. But I was like, I'm just not gonna drink. So I went like a month, and uh like all of January and a little bit into February, I passed the Super Bowl, and I had a couple beers in like March, and then I got hammered on my 30th birthday. We got we spent like three grand at Top Golf on like getting a bunch of bays. Yep, just like a big like I turned 30, my buddy turned 30, just got a bunch of people, and I just got disgustingly hammered. And I was like, I'm leaving this shit in my 30s, because I was actually 29 that day. I turned 30 the next day, and I was like, I'm leaving this in my 30s, man. I'm done. Like, this is just stupid. But I remember when I was a kid, or not a kid, but I was I was taking shots when my kids were like two, and I would like do one for me, one for my buddy, and then like do like little shot glasses of milk, and I'd give them to my kid. I'm like, like looking back now, I'm like, man, I was I'm like indoctrinating these kids to like shots. Like sure. They were they will think like, oh, we're having fun, and I'm taking shots of my dad. Like, I'm glad I stopped that shit when they were so young I can't remember, but normalizing it, disgusting. Yeah, so I just really didn't like where I was at as a dad, as a husband, and I was like, fuck. I was like, I'm I'm done drinking, that was the first thing. So April 8th, 2023 was my last drink. Good for you. I was like, I'm just done, man. And I was like, what else can I do? Like, I need to lose weight, but you know, just kept looking back and forth of like what I need to do. So I'd I hired an online coach that I was watching online, and I was like, let's see what this does. I had called my wife from one of my prison runs. I was like, hey, can I spend like I think it was like 1500 bucks? I was like, so like if you're gonna stick to it, then sure. I was like, all right, I'll make sure I stick to it. And um, so I just started like just start small and just kept going to the gym, just doing little things, like started losing some weight, started feeling better, started reading more books or listening to books. I never read them, but the book that changed it for me was Rich Dad Poor Dead. Like I read that book and I come home from the gym at like seven in the morning. I'm like, Ashley, I'm quitting my job in two years from the prison. She's like, It's seven in the morning, man. Like, why are you throwing this on me right now? What the fuck? Where did this come from? Yeah. Like, what happened? Yeah. I'm like, I just read this Rich Dad Poor Dad, and like I'm just not doing this, is not right. And this book's like from the 80s. I'm like, nah, I'm done. I'm like, I don't she're like, what are you gonna do? I'm like, I don't know. I just know that I went through enough as a kid that like I gotta change, you know. I don't know, it's like turning 30, man. I've talked to a couple other clients that I've had, and they're like, I'm just turning 30, I just don't want to do this anymore. Like, I don't know, maybe it's like the new midlife crisis, I guess.

unknown: 2:26:55

Sure.

SPEAKER_00: 2:26:56

So so that just got me going, and then I just got in shape. I signed up for a 10k and I never ran past like three miles, and I was like, I'm just gonna do it. Went and did that in like September, just kept adding like hard stuff to do. My freezer went out right before hunting season, so I had to get a new freezer, but I turned that thing into a uh like a cold plunge. Yeah, just sealed it like flex foam and all that, just ghetto as hell. But uh so like all that whole winter, that whole winter, I just was just trying to do hard shit. Like I felt like I was getting more confidence and more hard stuff that I did for sure. So then I lost a bunch of weight. I almost like looking back, I probably did it a little bit too much. I should have started like reverse dieting because I got a little bit skeletored towards the end there.

SPEAKER_02: 2:27:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:27:38

I dropped down to like from 235 to like to 190. Damn, good for you, man. Yeah, felt really good, like you know, but I just probably needed to put a little bit more muscle on, so so then um I was just like, I'm I'm changing this shit, man. Like I'd I just need to be a better dad, I need to be a better husband. Um, you know, and quitting drinking was like that first thing for me that absolutely just cascaded all that into it, and then we had our daughter in September of that year, that 23, and like while I was off on paternity leave, I got my PT certification and I was like, I'm just gonna go. I felt really good, man. So I was like, I'm gonna do this for other people. I don't know how I'm gonna do it. Like, I've never been a coach in my life. Good for you, dude. I just want to help other dads, man. Yes. There's just and from working in the prison system, uh, I would be on these transports just talking to inmates, like, dude, how did you end up like in this spot? He's like, Yeah, it's just how I grew up, man. This is what it was like. I was just around this, and that's all I knew. And it's generational. Yeah. And then I think back to like my stepmom, man. I'm like, I think she probably got like she had to get abused too. I don't think major happened in her. I don't think that she's that crazy to just think of that herself. She may have added some stuff on over the years, but I think that and I I think that one of her kids sticks out for sure, and I think that she probably got abused by her mom too. So like I don't think I was a first. I don't I think I was probably the worst, but I know that I had to be the one to change because otherwise I was gonna pass that off to my kids, whether it was my bad habits of the drinking, the eating, my anger problems, irritability, whatever it was, like this buck stops here, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 2:29:21

That's good for you, man. That takes a lot. What what was that aha moment? I mean, I know you're writing back and it was the book, but like I feel that there comes a point in every man's life where you you hit that aha moment, like, fuck, dude, like I'm setting the example for my kids, like I need to change this shit. Do you remember like that moment?

SPEAKER_00: 2:29:40

Yeah, um, so like I said, my kid's autistic, and we found out the hard way that he was uh eloper. Was that like running away? But it's not like eloping is just it's what they say for running away, but it's more like they just run. It's not like they're trying to run away from you, it's just they don't know a danger, right? So we found out he was. I guess it was in 23. He was born in 20, so or no, that was in 22 when he escaped, which is weird to say, but yeah, he escaped from the house and ran straight into the road and it was on our doorbell and narrowly got hit missed by a car. Oh my god. And like I just it was just like a wake-up call, man. Oh sorry. I didn't feel like I was in shape, you know? To to be able to chase him or go after him? Yeah, if it wasn't for our sharp rocks that he ran like straight and then there's like some sharp rocks in front of our door and like half second slowed him down. If it wasn't for that man, he'd be dead. And that's all on my on my Instagram. Like I just shared that to everybody. I was like, like this is why this is why you need to be in shape. It's not for like for the muscles, it's not like if you're a parent, especially a parent of like a special needs kid, like it's not an option, dude. Like you gotta be in shape. I almost learned the hard way. I did learn the hard way. Yeah, I just got blessed by God that nothing happened. Like a huge wake-up call though. Like to almost watch your kid. Like my daughter was the first one to see it. Um and man, like the comments I get from the that video is crazy. People just like hate. Yeah. But it's uh like my daughter runs out first, like yelling, why it wiet, you know. And he's just doing his doesn't make that's the thing with autistic kids, is they don't respond to their name. And they won't process it. So he just keeps going, and then my wife's running, saying why it, and then I'm like the last one out the door. And uh you know, I just looking back, I'm like, man, I just that was a moment that it was this has gotta change. I had no intention of changing before that, and it still even took me a couple months to start making any kind of changes after that, which is weird. But yeah, that was on October that that happened of 22, and it still took me a little bit of processing to figure out like it was me.

SPEAKER_02: 2:31:54

I think it's it's very important. I I as like a dad and even a mother, if you cannot grab your child and run 50 to 100 yards with them, like that should be the baseline as a father and a mother for any situation, and especially dads, I feel like who are we to sit here and call ourselves these protectors if we can't even grab physically fit enough? And I get people have their disabilities and I'm not directing this at them, but being out of shape or lazy or just complacent with your life is not an excuse, and it's like, man, that should be your baseline. Like, if I have to grab my child and get out of here in a mass shooting, earthquake, crazy scenario, you don't know where you're gonna end up. There's the world is in an interesting place right now. But like, that should be as a as a dad, you should be able to look at your child and be like, I can snatch that kid up and we're out of here. And if you can't, that should be your aha moment. Like, holy fuck, how am I gonna sit here and say that I'm a provider and a protector and I'm the dad and this is my realm, and I'm I'm gonna protect my kids through anything, but I can't even pick them up and get them out of a situation if I had to.

SPEAKER_03: 2:33:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:33:10

And it's like, dude, I mean, we all have those moments, and for you, I mean, God, man, you dodged that one. That was that's what it took to realize, like shit, I probably could have been faster, I could have been more aware, or whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_00: 2:33:22

Unfortunately, most of the times in anybody's life, it takes something big to make them change.

SPEAKER_02: 2:33:27

Which is a lot of times too too long or too far and or too late, I should say. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 2:33:42

Yeah, I've really been fascinated lately with like the region beta paradox. Have you ever heard of that? It's like if you were gonna go one mile, you'd walk it, but if you have to go two miles, you probably would take a car. It's like so the worst the condition is then you're gonna take action.

SPEAKER_02: 2:33:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:33:54

So like, why is it that we always do that? I mean, I was the same way, but like you could go that one mile in a car a lot quicker than if you just took that action. But why do you wait until the conditions are so bad and then you're gonna take action? Absolutely. It's like for me, I just I had to wait until my kid almost died for me to take action. You know, why are you gonna wait till like you know, you can't walk your kid down the aisle or something? Or like you, you know, like even if it's little things, man, like the all the times that I missed out taking my kids to wearing springs where I was just not present in the moment. I was like self-conscious about taking my shirt off or that's and that's it, man.

SPEAKER_02: 2:34:28

It's just those little things. Like as a dad and a man, it's like, dude, you want to be that representation for your children.

SPEAKER_00: 2:34:35

Right. And you in this crazy world, are you wanting your kids to go to the online to get role models? Or are you wanting them to go?

SPEAKER_02: 2:34:41

They're going, they're scrolling for validation, they're scrolling for a role model or a hero or whatever it may be. Like, as a dad, like your kids should look at us as a superhero. Like that I think mine youngest until last year believed that I could lift a house. I told her when she was little, she asked me when she was tiny, and she's like, Dad, can you lift a house? I was like, You're damn right I can. And dude, she would like argue with her friends until we got to more like it was kind of like a joke. Yeah, she that's how she looks at me in her eyes, and I'm this superhero to her. The dad can lift a house. You're and there's nothing greater than going somewhere and and your daughter's looking, you're your kids looking like dad, it's you're the biggest one here. Dad, you're the most fit one here. You don't even got to be the biggest, right? Dad, you're the most fit one here. And it's like, I don't really look at myself as that fit. Like, I feel like I'm an average fit person, and I'm looking around like, God dang, like the the fact that this nine-year-old little girl's noticing this, like they're watching. Yeah, your kids are no matter how disconnected you think your kids are not, they're watching.

SPEAKER_00: 2:35:41

Yeah, kids always fail to listen to their parents, but they never fail to emulate them. Make it make sense, you know?

SPEAKER_02: 2:35:47

Yeah. And so it's like for us as dads to be that role model and just to be that bar, like set the level. Like you want your daughters dating some drunk, some fat, lazy dude that comes home and cracks open 20 beers every throughout the week, and your kids are watching that, or do you want them your kids to walk, watch you walk through that door from the gym and you're sweating, you gotta pump and dad, how was it? Oh, it's great, you know, and you're able to have that because that's their mindset. Because one day when my daughters are dating and they go to get married, I want that in the back of their head, like, oh, this dude's a lazy piece of shit. Like, this is how my dad was growing up. This is the bar. Like, yeah, us as fathers, it is our role to set that bar for our daughters. And same thing with our sons. So it's there's no different. You're setting the role for your son. Do you want your son to grow up and be a drunk that's coming home, drinking, smoking, fucking off, being an asshole, being very violent, abusive. Like they're they're they're watching and they're taking that all in, man. It's it's great to see that you've turned all of that into being able to help out other men and and coach them now. It's pretty incredible.

SPEAKER_00: 2:36:54

Yeah, it's true. I mean, it's really beginning of the journey, but I just you gotta start somewhere, man. Yeah, I mean, that's that's the thing, man, is it's not just about you setting the example for them, but you're also setting them up for success success. Like if you if you only give them what they want and then they get overweight, and then you're just being kind to the person they are now, you're not being to the kind to the person they are later. So it's like which version of them do you want to be kind to? And I think that's a problem that a lot of parents, myself included, like I've still got some work work to issue or some issues to work out in my own family, but like if you're only giving them everything they want and not showing them other alternatives, this is how they could still have a healthy relationship with food. But like, like I I'm in so much pain when I had to go through this weight loss, like I don't want my kids to go through that. Like, so if I'm not willing to take care of my problems right now, like I'm just gonna hand those off to them to take care of, is that fair to do it? It's generational, yeah. So it's like I whatever problems that I have to take care of. I always like to say, like, if there was a freaky Friday situation and your kid took your body with your habits and like your eating and everything like that, would you want that? Yeah, no? Okay, then you you probably need to take care of that at this point because that's all they're gonna learn.

SPEAKER_02: 2:38:06

Would you be cool with your kids taking in your shoes right now? Yeah, step taking a step in your shoes for a day. Would you want your kids to be able to see what you're going through? Yeah. If you can't answer 100% yes, like it's probably time as a dad to be like, oh fuck, maybe I should. Yeah. And that's where I hope dudes hear that. Like, if you're gonna look at your kid and be like, God, I would be proud for him to wear my shoes for a week or even a day, and you're like, oh god, and you hesitate, yeah, that's a huge sign right there that you should probably start being the role model in that male figure that these m little girls and boys need to grow up to be healthy.

SPEAKER_00: 2:38:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:38:41

Are you gonna be in your kid's commencement speech?

SPEAKER_00: 2:38:45

I am. I believe that, yeah, for sure. For me, like I read a book too, it was like the seven habits of highly effective people, and I had like the second chapter is talking about um starting at your funeral and working your way back, like at your funeral, what are people gonna say about you? And I was like, I don't want him to say that this guy was a good corrections officer for 30 years and then died. Wow. Like, that's he went through all this as a kid and then just became a CO, and then that's it. I always think like that part on Anchorman where he's like, You gotta set your bar way lower. I'm talking uh prison officer or whatever, right? And I'm like, he's not wrong. And there. Yeah, yeah. So I'm like, I don't know, and then and then when I decided I was gonna do this PT thing, man, I was just like, I just told everybody at work. I'm like, there's one thing I don't want to be, and that's a liar, so I'm just gonna force myself to do it. I was like, and it kind of bit me on the foot a couple times. I wanted to go and do like some trainings, they're like, why would we invest in you if you're just gonna leave us? And I was like, yeah, touche.

SPEAKER_02: 2:39:45

You're right, because that would have probably kept you, who knows? You could have gone through some training, like, oh dude, that was fun. I can't wait to do this more. And then that lowers your guard of that, okay, I'm getting out stage, okay. I'm 100% committed, you know, versus oh, I went through this guy. Sorry, babe, I'm gonna ride this out a little longer. Then your plan B or your plan A of getting out now goes to plan B, then plan C, before you know it, it's been an extra year, and you're like, fuck, I'm still here.

SPEAKER_00: 2:40:10

Yeah. And I told everybody like around that time when I was like, I got two years left. I went to work and I was like, hey guys, I'm just telling you this, you can hold me accountable or whatever. But I like two years from now I'm quitting. And they're like, no, you're a lifer, you're a lifer. And then like the next year, they're like, You still leaving next year? I'm like, Yeah, I'm still leaving, I'm still leaving. And I think it was one of those God moments, man, is like I didn't get transport back the last year, and I would not have seen that coming because I had a CDL and I thought my spot was secure. I was the only person that didn't get my spot back. And they they said it was because I was on Cert, the prison SWAT team. And so like the training mixed up with the runs and stuff, because I only put in for one run. I was gonna go on the the East run or something, because I wanted to have Mondays off because I wanted to do like some Bible study stuff on Mondays, and I was like, I'm not gonna budge. They wanted me put on for everything because Mondays you would have gone north and I didn't put in for that. I was like, nope, I'm not budging. This is what I feel is strong to me. I need to be like taking my faith seriously right now in my life. So I only put in for the Tuesday through Friday spots, and I was the only person that didn't get it. I got that call. We were in we were in the Jerome County jail, and they called me and they're like, hey, said, Well just let you know you didn't get that, you didn't get transport next year. God stuff. I was like, all right. I I just took it on channels, that's fine, whatever. I was kind of surprised nobody else got it. There everybody else is all like waiting for the call for them to get it too. Like they're they're making calls. I was the only one. So I go the first day on the yard, I'm an RE. I took off the first two weeks of the year of vacation, and I go back. And the first day that I go back, like I'm standing outside, man. It's still winter. I'm like right on the breezeway. It's freaking cold, dude. I'm hating life. I look at my phone and they just opened up a couple spots on transport for the bus. My spot, somebody that was uh that got it got fired or quit or something, so that spot came open. I'm like, oh God's destiny right now, man. Like you're gonna you're gonna go back to that life of comfort, or you're gonna stick, stick to this, you're gonna stick to a spot that you don't like so that you can push yourself to leave, or you're gonna go back to the life of comfort, and then maybe you'll spend a whole year there, and maybe it turns into 10 years. Next thing you know, I'm 20 years of my career and I'm like, oh, I could just do another 10, and then you know I'll retire soon. I was like, not putting in, man. Everybody's like hit me up, they're like, Sid well, this thing's open, you gonna put in for it? I'm like, Nope, I can't do it, can't do it. I want to, but I'm not gonna, you know? It's like I just tired of like chasing comfort, you know. 100%. You get complacent, you get fat and lazy when you're comfortable, and so then I was like, I'm leaving, I'm leaving the prison, man. I'm gonna um this will be my last year. I wanted to see the other side of it from like the the prison SWAT team. Like, I wanted to watch all the candidates go through it. I went through it the year prior, and that was my first experience with you know, like the military style thing, and it sucked, right? But it was like one of the best times of my life looking back. Um but I wanted to see it from the other side. It gets like April, and they're like budget cuts, we're not doing a program. That was a sign. And I'm like, all right, well, that was the only thing that was holding me. I had all my vacations planned around that. I was gonna take the week off before that and the week off after, so I'd have like a month off because you pretty much aren't working if you're in there. You're you're working a lot, but you're not in the prison. So I was like, I'm doing that. And that that got cancelled. I'm like, all right. And then um April, April, I went to the doctor and I was like, uh, the foot doctor, I was like, can I do I need to get a surgery or anything? I got like a like 200 hours of sick time right now. Um it's like use or lose it with a with the state. So they're not gonna pay you out. I was like, so if I need a surgery, I'm gonna do it now and use my hours. He looks at my foot, he's like, nah, you're good. He's like, I was like, damn, I was hoping that I could get some hours burned. He's like, I'll write you a note, man. I'll get you a couple weeks off, get you off your feet. So I was like, all right, cool. He writes me a note for like, he's like, you can go back to work April 7th or something. Um, and your follow-up appointment is the 14th. I get a little note from HR, they're like, you can't come back until after your 14th appointment. I was like, all right, well, there's three weeks sick. All right. So I go back to work that week. It was like a three-day work week, and then next week was a four-day work week. The first three days of that four-week, four-day work week, my whole family was just out sick. So I called off for like three days. And it was like that Saturday is my my last day of work. And then uh my wife's like, just don't go to work, you know? And I was like, nah, it's Saturday, it's easy. Like there's no education, there's nothing, it's chill. I'm gonna go to work. She's like, You're gonna have to do overtime. And I was like, Yeah, I know, because I didn't do overtime like for two weeks at that point. So I go into work, they're like, Matt, you're at the top of the overtime list. We're gonna have to have you hold over in unit nine. I was like, Alright. So do my whole regular shift on RE, cool day, everything. I go to unit nine to get my pass down, like give me my equipment and everything. All of a sudden there's all this commotion on the tier man, and like we all go there, and uh it was tier one, cell ten. Dude's just hanging. Your last day of work. It was like the only day of work I went that week, and I just felt like I needed to go to work that day for some reason. I was like, I'm gonna go. Yeah. Yeah, it was right at the beginning of my overtime shift of the four-hour block. First time in my tenure career I've ever seen someone hanging. I was the first on scene. They were following me right in too. Like, so there's three of us in there, but yeah, dude was just hanging blue. The first time I ever seen that, I was like, like, you know, we that um I tried to use my cut down tool as like a benchmade tool, but like he had put a sheet around his neck and it was just like an inch thick. Yep. That benchmate's not going through that. So the chick that was with me, she holds him up, and like I just loosened the noose around his neck. We'd put him on the floor, CPR, right? Just chest compressions. You're just going to town, like they're calling emergency. The other officer that was with us, she's putting all the all the inmates back in their cell. But like, there was one dude that I actually one of the inmates I had become kind of like talked to. I knew him over the the years and like close custody, cool dude. His name was Adams, if he ever watches this, but he's a cool dude, like he was the one that seen it first. And uh, like you could just tell he was having a hard time and he was back in the cell. I talked to him later on, but that was my first time having to deal with that. So she holds him up. I take the noose off the neck, we put him down, we're just doing chest compressions, like you just get these smells coming out of his lungs, and like just nasty. My first time ever having to do like chest compressions on a dude, you're just feeling ribs breaking under your under your arm or your hands and stuff, man. It's like like you'll just those are that was like I was like, why'd I go to work today, man? Like I just felt like a sign. Yeah. So I went to work and then that whole thing happened. Like that just kind of fucked me the first time. I've I've never seen that before, you know? It was like I had to keep doing everything. They pulled him out into the hallway. The meds get there, or the medical team, they're working on him, putting the thing on his mouth, put air in his mouth. Everybody's taking turns doing chest compressions. I mean, we're doing it for like 20 minutes till the firefighters get there or whatever, the paramedics. They get there, look out on air, do his pulse, like within two minutes, they're like, Yeah, he's dead. And then um we had to wait till the coroner got there, man. And he was still just chilling in the hallway, you know. I just was doing my tear checks, like walking around a body. Because he can't touch it's like a crime scene at that point, you know, so we can't do anything. You can't move the body at that point. It's like and then uh finally, like after a little while, they d got him taken care of and everything, but like just a regular day of work, you know. Now it's it, and then you get to go home. So then the next week I I went to a men's conference, like a men's Christian conference up in the woods. It was pretty cool. I gotta meet uh like some like the Daniel, who's the boys estate coach, he was like one of the talkers there. It was just a cool conference, it just was nice timing that was like right after that thing. I just called in and I was like, I'm gonna burn some of my sick time, man. Like they got me FMLA and uh just for like mental health or whatever, but I'm like use it to lose it, right? Yep. Burned like uh three weeks or whatever I had left, four weeks of it left. And uh while I was on my FMLA, I'd won, I'd put my two weeks in, went back to work for one week, and went all in. I didn't have really any clients at that point. I was just like figured out, man, I'm going burn the boats. Like I think that's how I I would talk to you last time. Like I'd text you when you had made some kind of a a post, you're like talking about just like burning the boats moment, and like, yeah, that's that's how I did it, man. I just I don't know. I I have a feeling in my heart that I have a bigger calling than working in a prison, and you don't go through that much shit to not be able to help others.

SPEAKER_02: 2:48:50

Hell no, dude. God's got plans for you. So yeah, that's what's caught up.

SPEAKER_00: 2:48:56

Damn, man.

SPEAKER_02: 2:48:58

Yeah, what a life. And then it's hunting in there somewhere too. Yeah, but there always is hunting in there somewhere. Man, I appreciate you coming on and sharing your story. I had no idea. Yeah. I was like, man, he's a great guy. You gotta just sit have a conversation with him. He'd be perfect. Kyle doesn't know anything. Like, I didn't tell him really much.

SPEAKER_00: 2:49:17

I don't think he knows any of this.

SPEAKER_02: 2:49:19

Probably not. Kyle's Kyle. He's got a lot of things. Like, I didn't tell anybody until like really like a year ago. Oh shit. Well, good for you. I appreciate you sharing, dude. The I know there's gonna be a lot of people that listen to us and be like, holy shit. Like, it's it's insane to me of how like our guests are so like I don't have a niche for this show, right? It's just yeah, people that have stories, and I guess that is our niche, but the fact that you're like every single person that comes on talks, there's so many people that relate to these to our guests, and it's incredible because like I never in a million years would think the craziest stories and what happened to people, and people are like, holy shit, man, like been through this, and oh my god, this touched me so much. I'm like, man, like that's that's the coolest part. It's like I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your stories and opening up and talking a little bit about your life. I'm sure we haven't even scraped the surface, but for three hours, yeah, it goes by pretty quick.

SPEAKER_00: 2:50:15

That's the funny part. Like, when I have guests come on my show, man, they're like, I don't have a story. I'm like everybody, everybody says that.

SPEAKER_02: 2:50:21

Every single person that sat there's I don't think I'm cool enough to come and talk. I'm like, bro, every single person says it. So it's uh it's fun. It's funny to us to be able to like see that. Then people will leave and we're like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_00: 2:50:33

I think it's cool that podcasts are like popping up a lot more because people get a chance to tell their story, it's not like something they're gonna die with. Like, for sure. It's like a video thing you send your kids or whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 2:50:41

Like later, it's a documented chapter of your life that you get to come and talk and tell some really cool stuff or things you've been through, and your kids will be able to look back at it one day. I had to guess on that was a big reason they want to come on and share their story. Like, dude, I want my kids to be able to search me one day, and my story's gonna be out there. And I'm like, that's a great way to put it. Yeah, well, dude, I appreciate you. Yeah, man. Thank you for your time and thanks for everything you do. And I'm really looking forward to it. We got to talk offline about your training, and then um, dude, I appreciate everything that you're doing. Help out the dad and man community now. So yeah, cool. Absolutely. Dude, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you, man. Yeah, that was great. Awesome. Three hours will fly by. I