Have You Made Space for a Breakthrough?

What story is asking to be reclaimed in your life right now? Is there a thread be it joy, grief, or creativity that’s weaving itself through your spiral of healing?

This episode is a masterclass in embodied integration. Shelby revisits her reconnection to dance how a prompt cracked open a story she hadn’t told before: that of a girl who learned to love herself through movement. What began as a wayfinding insight has unfolded into ritual, aliveness, community, and even spiritual reclamation. She speaks about dancing with her inner teenage self at an archetypal coronation and how dance has become her new form of breathwork.

Khara reflects on the depth of grief after the death of her dog, Bindi, and how that experience cracked open layers of unprocessed emotion from miscarriage, identity shifts, and motherhood transitions. We talk about how ritual and presence made space for healing.

Themes of slowing down, practicing presence, and releasing the addiction to “the chase” re-emerge. Khara shares a realization that her pattern of always seeking “what’s next” has softened, especially since becoming pregnant again. She describes a day where she flowed between rest, creation, and nourishment recording five hypnosis sessions (finally acting on a long-held desire), cooking, and cleaning all without force.

The conversation spirals into boundaries, self-witnessing, emotional rewiring, and the deeper truth that transformation often revisits us in familiar forms but with new wisdom. Shelby beautifully describes this as not circling back but rising up a spiral staircase, seeing the same “signs” with new eyes.

Key Topics:

• Dance as soul reclamation & embodiment
• Grief as a portal to joy
• Pregnancy & deconditioning from hustle
• Letting life flow without chasing
• Hypnosis, creativity & aligned ease
• Family boundaries & ancestral healing
• Witnessing your own evolution through voice notes, journaling, and presence

Find Shelby and Khara on instagram:

Shelby
Khara

Shelby's interactive journal:

The Identity Field Guide

Transcript

Shelby Wagner All right. Hi. Hello. Welcome, everyone to looking for evidence. If you're new here, I'm Shelby Wagner and joined by the lovely Khara Collins. And, you know, it's July. And like we're recording every few months. So, hi, hello. If you aren't new here, we're still alive and we're very excited to check in. We're slightly terrified. The year is halfway over. But just so excited to dive in and see what comes up. And so, hi, Khara. Hi, lots to catch up on. 6:43 - Khara Collins Yeah, this new, you know, three to four month cadence we have going on makes for a jam-packed episode, right? 6:52 - Shelby Wagner Yeah, I last night was looking through my journal and I'm like, how the hell am I going to synthesize this? How is the great synthesizer going to synthesize all that has taken place since April? And so I'm just going to trust that what's most important will come up, but it's been a time. 7:15 - Khara Collins Yes, it has. Well, where do you want to start? Or do we want to, oh, you know what? We can open with Shelby and I actually met face to face. Like what month even was it, May? Yes, May. 7:32 - Shelby Wagner Yeah. Yeah. So we met two years ago, May of 2023. And we have been chatting on Voxer and via Zoom for two years. Having never met each other in real life because I live in Minnesota and Khara lives in Texas. And so we put a date on the calendar and in May I stepped off a plane and we saw each other in person and we thought it might be fun to debrief real quick on what it was like to meet in real time. 8:02 - Khara Collins Yeah, this was such an experience. Like I am no stranger to meeting people on the internet as weird as that sounds. It's honestly not weird. Days but like I've been meeting people on the internet since like 2006. 8:15 - Shelby Wagner Right yeah I think my first um internet friend was from Craigslist if that'll tell you how long ago that was. 8:22 - Unidentified Speaker I know when you talk about meeting people on Craigslist I'm like they're the best balls you know. 8:28 - Khara Collins I love it though um but this experience was like it's like so different because you know normally it I don't go two years without meeting somebody like I do have a few friends that I have like built that relationship with and met. But this is like, we go so deep. And it's like, we see each other on, you know, like the podcast or like if we FaceTime or whatever. So Shelby flew into San Antonio, which is like a two hour drive from here. And I kept asking her like, Oh, what do you want to do when you get here? And like, we didn't make like too many plans. But one of the things we talked about was like, Oh, I want to see, she was like, want to see your childhood home if you're if you're up to it. So we went by that and it was really cool to see like even for me, I haven't been there in a long time. And immediately went and got Mexican food because it's what you do when you touch down in Texas. Like it was perfect. It was a perfect day even though it was super hot. 9:29 - Shelby Wagner Yeah, yeah. And it was I don't know, it was kind of surreal telling people I was going to meet someone like that everyone like, she's real, right? You know, and I'm like, I mean, this would be a pretty good catfish at this point, because we have a podcast together. 9:45 - Unidentified Speaker A lot of planning if I was a catfish. Yes. 9:49 - Shelby Wagner But yeah, so that part was just like wild to tell people about. And yeah, it was just interesting to like real time be like, okay, I know so much about you. And now here I am, I finally get to see just how tall you are, right? Or I even like it was to me when we were driving in the car and I was like, I've actually never really seen you from the side, you know, like your profile. And that was for me, like, I just remember being like, Oh, I've never seen this angle of her before. But like, I'm such a person that's always like, I noticed how people's hands are. 10:31 - Unidentified Speaker Like I have two friends have the same thumbs, you know, like, like my brain, like, you know, I'm a, when I say I'm Sherlock Holmes, like I am Sherlock Holmes to the nth degree. And so when I saw that profile view, I was like, Oh my gosh, I've never seen this side of her. Like, Oh, I didn't know her nose. 10:51 - Shelby Wagner Like did that, you know, like it just, it was so wild to go like, Oh yeah. Like we're always seeing this very flat face forward version of ourselves, even if we've seen photos or whatever. And that just made me laugh. I don't know why, because it was just like, oh, there's something that I don't know or that I could really never know, you know, from like online unless we sat here and checked each other from all angles. But that just kind of just made me like laugh for some reason. I was just like, oh, look at like these just little new details I get to add to like the picture of who you are. 11:27 - Khara Collins Yeah, it was also just like so crazy how comfortable I felt. Like, even when people I've known my whole life come to visit, I stress out weeks leading up to when they come. And I just never felt like that. Like, I feel like we have an understanding. And I mean, it's not like I didn't clean the house or anything. No, you are a great host. 11:50 - Unidentified Speaker I just felt like so at ease. 11:52 - Khara Collins And it was like, I already know her like, it's not a big deal. And yeah, like seeing you for the first time, like, I mean, like you said, like, I just see like your face, but like, seeing you like, IRL and like, just in your little gear and like, I was just like, Oh my god, she's just as cute and badass as I thought. 12:15 - Unidentified Speaker Like, you know, my loud colors and it was great. And we like, what all do we we didn't do like us too much, but we like beached it. 12:24 - Khara Collins It was like chill. There was napping and snacking and tacos. 12:28 - Shelby Wagner Yeah, it was the perfect manifesto weekend, right? It was like a little bit of creativity, a little bit of rest, laughing. I just loved, you know, watching like some TV shows and just like cracking up at stuff and just being able to have just normal things. Like I didn't need to be necessarily like a tourist, like, you know, yeah, beach, water, anytime, all day. But it's also like, yeah, let's just be in each other's energy like we would if I lived down the street and, and just like hang out. 13:01 - Unidentified Speaker Yeah. I kind of forgot. Like we did watch like quite a few shows, like, and Shelby is like a master Netflix specialist. So she had all the shows on lock. 13:12 - Khara Collins And I think my favorite one we watched was North. Was it North of North? Yeah. Dude, I watched that after you left. I think I watched it like four more times. Like the same season, it was so good. I just was obsessed. Like, but it was, it was so cool just to have like no pressure of like making sure you see everything. Cause we know you're coming back. 13:36 - Unidentified Speaker It's just like total like natural friend vibes. Yeah. Yeah. That's so fun. So fun. 13:42 - Shelby Wagner So anyone's got some internet friends schedule some time to meet up in real time But enjoy that and risk. 13:50 - Khara Collins Yeah. And just let it be chill. 13:53 - Shelby Wagner Let it be chill and hang out. Yes. Fourteen drinks over here. 13:58 - Unidentified Speaker Stay hydrated. Well, let's get to it. 14:01 - Shelby Wagner I know I I don't know if you want to go first or I can go first. It doesn't matter. I felt it felt like it felt good to anchor from a place of my birthday. So my birthday was June 6th. And looking through my journal, it was like, it felt like kind of a pivotal, like, door opening moment as I did a couple, did Oracle spread, archetype spread, and a couple spreads that were really illuminating, like, what's ahead, but also just capturing some, like, okay, where am I at? So I'm just going to Read a couple days after my birthday journal entry and then let that guide on the journey on all the things that kind of unfolded after that. 14:54 - Unidentified Speaker So. 14:54 - Shelby Wagner So June 8th, birthday come and gone. It felt quiet yet sweet. Time with family. I cried for the neck pain that won't let up. Workout, art, words withheld. Overdue body care. Who knows? I was warned it would be challenging these months but to find the silver lining. I'm doing my best to see all I have to be grateful for. Birds chirping, rain, green trees, love. Enjoying my oracle spreads. What a sync with the womb card. I saw it in my dream a few weeks ago. Inner child, joy, womb, receive. Not to just create. A thread, an anchor to heart. The, oh, I can't remember this card name, Amuna Mundi, soul of the universe, Jupiter and Cancer. What opportunities are there to share my wisdom, beliefs, identity? Cancer, here's a quote there, I hold space for what others hide from I loved that. Gemini, quote, your light isn't in choosing one truth, It's in helping others find their own. Those were from Moon Omens. When I speak from my center, people listen. So reflecting back on this day, I was probably three weeks into a really intense neck and shoulder muscle flare ups of some kind. And I was so excited for my birthday. I'm always excited for my birthday. I love my birthday. And it felt really tough to have to try to celebrate on top of this really excruciating pain that felt like it came out of nowhere over Mother's Day. I was having trouble sleeping. I really couldn't do much. And by the end of the day, I'd just be in so much pain, even with taking a leave. And it was rough. And it was rough to just go through that week and try to still see the good still, see the goodness that's happening around me and hold on to this pain. And months before, numerology had said, there are going to be some months that are going to feel hard and you're going to want to go like, see, look, nothing good happens for me. But this is going to be a lesson to persevere and hold on to what is truly good in your life. And so I think that just helped me move through that week of like letting myself kind of like cry and like grieve, like this is not the joyous runabout town week I was hoping for. But through that, right, I encountered these spreads. Is it the... 18:01 - Shelby Wagner two card spreads that I did that really felt impactful. And looking at these quotes from moon omens, one from Cancer, because I'm a Cancer rising, and one from Gemini, I'm a Gemini sun. From the Cancer rising, I hold space for what others hide from And for Gemini, your light isn't in choosing one truth, it's in helping others find their own. And it just felt really anchoring because right now I feel a bit like at sea about what am I doing professionally? I love creating. I love writing. I love the art that has been pouring out of me. And I just can't quite seem to find that thread that brings it all together for a profession that feels that good. Because I don't necessarily need to sell art, but I want the work that I do in the world in which I receive money for to feel as good as those things. And so when I did these card spreads, these themes started to come out of this is a time to reconnect to that inner child where that joy lives. I had this amazing experience where I pulled the card. Do you know the name of the deck, Khara? The archetypes deck? Yeah. Yes, it is the wild unknown. 19:32 - Khara Collins It is. Okay. 19:34 - Unidentified Speaker All right. Okay. Yeah. 19:35 - Shelby Wagner So I didn't wasn't making that up the wild unknown. And so I did this spread about what's my like, what's the inner quest that I will be going on for the year. And so then you pick these cards that are telling you the who, the where, the with what, and the why of your journey of the year ahead. And the where was the womb, and it was this just beautiful orange and yellow card. And when I looked at it closer, I was like, I've seen this before, and realized I had a dream about this orange, yellow orb, this place. This reading all of a sudden just like came alive for me of like thinking about the year ahead of being in this place where I receive and being in this place where I'm really rooting into that joyful part of myself. And then the idea of being like the tool is the thread and being able to like connect and help other people connect to like you know, like bringing them back to the, the, like kind of the purpose that flows through it all. Um, and that just felt really like grounding for me at a time where I felt again, like just sad that I wasn't feeling great physically. And as I noted in the entry, like, I, I think some of the pain was somatic, um, you know, looked into some things like German medicine and, and Louise, Hey, Um, that, that right side, neck and shoulder pain can sometimes be when you're turning away from, um, you know, confronting something or holding back words. And that definitely applied, uh, for some things in like my personal life. Um, I also had kept putting off, like going to get a massage. Cause it was just like, oh, do I have the time and do I have the money and just all of these things that my body was saying it needed either to speak or to be cared for and I kept ignoring it. And oddly enough, the last, this is the third year where I've had a May where some physical symptom has manifested to slow me down and like stop me in my tracks, which is also frustrating. Cause I'm like, what again? But yeah, and so, top of this reading, I raised my hand for a wayfinding reading for another manifester who was wanting to experiment with their own tech that they've made and wanting to see like, does this work and does this make sense? And it turned out to be extremely impactful and very in-depth. And the one piece, I mean, one of the pieces that really stood out for me is like the question of what is mine to initiate And so where I find myself right now is feeling that like, excitement for that kind of responsibility to tell those kinds of stories. It has prompted me to look into some deeper stories I haven't told yet. And one of them that came forward was further expanding on how dance really saved me as a child. I didn't know it at the time. I danced for 11 years, tap, jazz, and ballet. And looking back, it allowed me to really love myself and stay in my body at a time where it would have been easy to disassociate. One being an early incident of sexual abuse when I was around eight or nine, but also just the journey of being a biracial person in the 80s and 90s when we didn't really have language for one another. That was, there were just so many opportunities for me to not love myself. And I feel like dance allowed me to stay present to the goodness of who I was and am. And so to have that story kind of come out of all of this, like reflection on these cards and this time of my birthday and just looking back at who I am, I feel like I'm on this journey of reclaiming the stories of my youth and reclaiming the confidence and the courage that I did have that I think I forget about sometimes because some of those harder things, you know, just like criticism hurts more, you know, like stands out more than compliments. I think I'm at this like pivotal point where it's time to let the aspects of myself shine more brightly than the pain has. I think it was a season I needed to be in to revisit those stories and see what was true, what was untrue, and maybe what's different now. And now I feel like I'm at this place of like, I want to go back and kind of honor my younger self for all the things that I was great at, that I did move through so that I can bring even more wholeness to who I am now for that next level magnetic story weaver pattern maker self. 25:34 - Khara Collins Man, I just love how every time we get on here like the depths that we go into and you know of course we're in Voxer in and out of all of this but it's so cool to be able to like revisit it at like a higher level like kind of away from when it was happening and there's just so many things that you brought up that are just like some of them we've talked about recently but it's just so cool to think about like knowing the whole like journey and like many of the people listening know the whole journey too if they've listened the whole time but like seeing the different themes pop up again like the neck pain and how that's been like a theme like every year around this time and being able to see these patterns and how you've like slowed down and whatever and then the readings with like the cards that come through, this deck that Shelby used. I have it too. And she got it for her birthday from our awesome friend Morgan. And it's just so powerful. And the spreads that are included in it, we actually did some while she was here. We did some on the beach. 26:43 - Shelby Wagner And I feel like it always has such great messages. 26:46 - Khara Collins And the way that you pull them through and apply them to your life, it's just like, I just love it. It's like a great example of like how to use the cards. And then now like with the dance, the other thing I was wondering if you wanted to talk about was like the meditation that you did where you had like integrated your inner child basically. And you know, dance has been present in your meditations and like obviously in real life too. And how it's come back around recently.

27:19 - Shelby Wagner I know, I know dance. Like I said, that wayfinding reading sparked that in me to go like, oh, yeah, because there was some kind of prompt and I wrote down, no one ever told the story of a girl who learned to love herself through dance. And so that sent me down a journey of just remembering how much dance meant to me. And it's just been showing up in so many places. And then this week, having an opportunity to go to a dance class that I didn't expect and just feeling so alive. And we were dancing in front of a mirror and it was like, that's me. And seeing my graceful arms and seeing my body move in ways that I remember, but I just don't do much anymore. And slowly feeling like my face going from like serious to like mouth open, like smiling and just feeling so joyful and bringing it back to like the card spread that's like that, you know, that eternal child, that is where you need to live. And, you know, and then the inner expedition recently, the coronation where, you know, I go on this journey to like crown someone and meet my spiritual community for some sort of celebration. And within there, it's really like my teenage self coming to this coronation to be crowned and to reclaim the story of who she was. And I wrote after that, my younger self wants to reclaim her identity and the role she plays in my life. Together we are unstoppable. We have so much to say and share together. And during that coronation, I was dancing with my spiritual community that's within my inner landscape. And we were just dancing, kind of like partner dancing, kind of like you would do in the 1800s or something, you know, at a coronation. And it was just lively and it felt very like spring, May Day vibes. And everyone just dancing together. And it wasn't until, yeah, just last, I think it was like last night or the night before just realizing like dance has emerged as a theme since my birthday from me remembering just how intense some of my meditations have been where I've had this soulmate dance partner and how just like supportive and alive I've felt in those meditations. Meditations, to remembering one of my favorite paintings that just show these two people on the beach dancing without a care in the world as the storm's kind of rolling in, to a friend giving me a card with a group of people, diverse community dancing on it, everywhere dance. And what's interesting is one of my archetype cards for the next few from the, I think the untamed elemental deck is wind. And in there, it's talking about breath. And for a long time, or just more recently, like breath work felt really supportive to do, but recently it's like, I've wanted to go, but it just doesn't, it feels like exercise right now to my body. And so I was like, Qi Gong, or like, what's other ways to like get in breath work? And this week after that dance class where I'm like sweating to death and trying to catch my breath after every song, I'm like, oh, maybe this is the next breathwork supportive tool for me is dance. And so I bought a five pack for that class that's on Mondays. And I'm so excited to look forward to that every Monday night and to be back in my body and to remember, like, I loved dancing. It's something that comes so easily to me. And even the teacher on Monday night after class, she was like, you need to come back. Like, you're a dancer. And I was like, yes, I used to dance a lot when I was younger. And I'm like, and I actually never really practiced. I said, it's just something I've always been good at. And like, even as I say that now, it feels like Like that was a gift given to me for this life journey. Yeah, that the whole like reclaiming stories of youth piece too. 32:13 - Khara Collins And just like how you're kind of integrating that back in through like dance or other activities. It's just such a like cool like concept to like integrate as an adult. And just thinking about to like how these seemingly like unrelated things that are just like fun for you, like seem to always lead you to other connections or opportunities. And I'm so excited to hear that you bought that five pack. Cause I just know like something's going to happen. Cause like, did you even mention like how you found out about the dance thing? Oh no. 32:49 - Shelby Wagner I mean, yeah, through, through, well, it was because of the post that I wrote about dancing and how dancing saved my life that a friend whom I met in 2020 through a running walking group, reached out and was like, I think you'd like to go to this class. Like I've had a ton of fun. And so, you know, him and I have just like stayed connected over the last five years. And again, like a random thing that I showed up to, I didn't know anybody. I just, someone happened to share it. And that's kind of how my life goes. I just show up to random things. I do random things. Um, but yeah, so it was just a fun, a fun connection that came through somebody I know and who appreciates my writing and my creativity. And so it felt very aligned. Yeah. 33:38 - Khara Collins Especially since, like you said, it came through something you posted, but that walk run group, dude, like I, uh, I was going to talk about this when I like share my stuff, but I really, I binged the whole podcast and, uh, I remember the first time you talked about the walk-run group and I can't remember like there was somebody else that you met through that group that you didn't know before that you got an opportunity through yeah it is coming up again this older connection coming through and it's just I love these stories where it's like these unexpected like you can call them coincidences or sinks come through and just like open you up to all this possibility and um it's really exciting to think about because it's like stuff that you like to do it's not like you going to like professional networking group and I know that's something you've talked about before about like it not necessarily being related to like work but having it being related to play or fun and how important that is to like keep alive and this is just a true testament to that. 34:38 - Shelby Wagner Exactly yeah that's why I tell people go where you want to go go where you want to hang out take a cooking class like whatever that wherever people are doing things that you like to do go do that and then see what happens happens, you know, like I feel like the universe will put people in your path. It doesn't have to be networking 101 in order for you to find somebody to connect with, you know? 35:04 - Unidentified Speaker Yeah. 35:04 - Khara Collins Oh, the other thing I just thought about that I think happened since we last recorded the creative morning session. Another example of like being in a vibe of people that are like your people and like showing up like how many people did I've registered again. 35:21 - Unidentified Speaker It was like 300, I think 300 people registered. Yeah. 35:25 - Unidentified Speaker Yeah. 35:25 - Khara Collins That was a really cool experience to like be a part of, to just know the journey and just like see you like in your element surrounded by other people that are like into this element. 35:38 - Shelby Wagner Yeah. And that's where, you know, when I see these things about helping people name truths and showing people like what possibility looks like and being, you know, someone who is a meaning maker and pattern weaver. It's those moments like the creative mornings where I get to do that and I get to help people see what is missing for them or help them make meaning and find their own thread. I absolutely love it. And the people who are hungry for it are just such a beautiful audience and community to interact with. The 70 people that did show up live were just amazing in the chat, just with their engagement, what they're willing to share about what was coming up for them. In that space, it feels like this is my home. These are my people. This is my work. I think what's just challenging is I don't know how to get that to a next level where that can be my work. And I know like your hobbies don't always have to be your work, but for me, I want my work to feel that way. I want to feel impactful. I want to feel like I'm in community. I want to feel like I'm making a difference. I want to see other people making transformation. And there's just something about that. Aspect that just is really energizing that I couldn't ever get really from one-on-one coaching or even a workshop, quite frankly. Maybe it's possible, but just the way that people show up ready to be curious, also vulnerable. It's just fascinating how creativity can do that, but also just the perspective and the power that I bring that facilitates that. 37:40 - Khara Collins Yeah, that's like the definition of like alignment to like, having that feeling of like, I love to do this. And I'm obviously good at it. It's just like, yeah, impact to people. 37:51 - Shelby Wagner And it, it feels easy, because you like to do it like goals. 37:55 - Khara Collins Right? I know. 37:56 - Shelby Wagner And that's, I think that was when I was starting out as a coach, I really was hungry for my own thing that I could just speak about and talk about from my heart. You know, when you come out of world of like learning certifications and stuff like that, you're constantly trying to keep up with that particular curriculum. But when I got to create the Identity Mosaic and the Identity Field Guide and really just embody this identity exploration stuff, it's just fun to be able to do it because it's who I am and it's a part of me and I get just to just free flow about it, take questions about it because I'm not trying to memorize something or try to follow the steps. I just, I just get to be. 38:45 - Unidentified Speaker Yeah. 38:45 - Khara Collins That's man. I love it. I love that. 38:49 - Unidentified Speaker I get to like witness you in these different situations too. 38:53 - Khara Collins Cause it's just like such a great example of like what's possible. 38:58 - Shelby Wagner Yeah. Yeah. So we'll stay tuned, um, you know, and see where it, where it flows to and, I don't know, fingers crossed that it's opening some opportunities that I just can't see yet. Yes, the magic continues to unfold for Shelby Wagner. Yes. Well. 39:21 - Khara Collins Well, what are you going to lead us into? Gosh, so I do have like, it's actually like a train transcript of a voice note that I did to myself. But before I get into that, I just wanted to like highlight another thing that happened prior to this. Because, yeah, I think the last one we had together at the podcast maybe was March. I don't know. Or maybe even sooner than that. Who knows? But anyway, lots of big things happened in May. My son turned nine, and that was a milestone that I'd been like, kind of moving through since he turned eight, honestly, because it's like that little transition from like, little baby to kid and like, just not a little baby anymore and kind of detaching from, you know, being all over him all the time. And it was good. Like it was, there was, I feel like leading up to that, I'd already like kind of prepped myself and also like now being pregnant with this new baby. I'm like, this is perfect timing. And even though they have like kind of a crazy age gap like I feel like it's kind of perfect like he's old enough to like appreciate it and like be excited and help and whatever and for me it's like okay I have a little baby to focus my attention on instead of smothering him um but and like you know Shelby coming in and us meeting and everything she got to meet my baby Bindi um who like unfortunately um she died like a week or two later after you left And, you know, Bindi had been going downhill for like a few years. And honestly, I had been grieving her for all that time, basically. 41:06 - Shelby Wagner Like, she scared me probably at least nine times. 41:09 - Khara Collins I'd come home and be like, are you alive? 41:13 - Unidentified Speaker Like, you're not breathing, like, breaking down. And so, like, I knew that, you know, she was, gosh, I think she was going to be, I'm already forgetting, like 16 or 17. 41:25 - Khara Collins I think she would have been 17 this year in September. And so I already knew the end was coming, but I mean, Shelby and I and Morgan had all been talking in Voxer about that whole process, because Shelby and Morgan had both lost their little pups in the last year or two, right? And anyway, I had been going through the whole process of end-of-life options, and like feeling really conflicted about it because she's always had problems walking, but she was getting around still and like eating and like everything was fine, but she did have like some incontinence problems that were like getting worse. And so I just was really struggling with like quality of life versus like being selfish for wanting my dog around, you know? And anyway, we ended up going to one of Luca's like end of year performances. And when we came back, like, we went to let her in from outside and she had like curled up in her favorite spot and like just died like in the backyard and like even though it was like heartbreaking to find her like that and just like I was sad I was still just like really relieved that she went on her own knowing that that was like a spot she loved it wasn't like we were away on vacation or like you know it could have been like so much worse or me having to choose the date like I just I had a hard time. 42:50 - Unidentified Speaker I was getting to that point, but I was really struggling. 42:54 - Khara Collins So what was unexpected with that was just the amount of grief it unlocked. Even though I had been grieving the whole time, it was that familiar grief feeling, and it tapped into some unprocessed emotions that had been maybe pushed down from the past. And I don't have a lot of experience with grief. I'm fortunate to... There hasn't been a lot of people that have died that are close to me and I've like like I said Morgan and Shelby and a few of my other friends have recently lost their pets and like seeing them go through it but never experienced it myself like going through it I was just like I don't know it's like a whole nother level because you know even though this isn't a person it's like this little baby is coming to you every day when you get home so excited to see you like the true definition of unconditional love. And for that to just like not be present anymore, it's devastating. And I, I like let myself grieve and cry. And you know, when I when I miscarried, I felt like that was kind of like a similar experience where like, it was the first time that I had like actually taken time to like, let myself feel my feelings. But even those feelings were like coming up again. And it was just like, that whole process was just like, I don't know. I didn't expect it. It was probably two or three solid weeks of sobbing, crying. There's still moments, of course, where the grief comes up. I don't think it ever goes away. I don't know. I just wanted to bring that part up because it had a profound effect on me because I think with grief comes joy and being able to process that grief makes more space. For joy or other feelings. And I don't know, I feel like that was just a pivotal moment in these last few months that really kind of like unlocked some stuff for me. But yeah, so I guess I can like Read my summary of my... 45:03 - Unidentified Speaker Yeah, before you do that, that just reminded me a quote my friend always says is joy is grief well attended. 45:12 - Shelby Wagner Because it's like, because you are attending to that grief, you make room for the possibility of joy, right? It doesn't, and when it's well attended and when you feel your feelings and let yourself move through that, from night there is day, right? It's like there's room for hope and possibility and for that to So I love that. Yeah. 45:39 - Unidentified Speaker I guess the other thing I forgot to mention that felt really good is like we ended up burying her in our backyard and really just bringing like ritual and ceremony to that whole process. 45:49 - Khara Collins And like, I got to, my son was involved. 45:51 - Unidentified Speaker Cause we had talked about it, like leading up to this, like if we did have to put her down or something, like if he'd want to be present for that and he did. So he, I don't know. I picked him up from school a little bit earlier. 46:05 - Khara Collins And we were able to like bury her together. And then we planted a tree. He made this adorable little sign. And I'm just like, oh, I'm just glad that he gets to experience this too, because I know like, I mean, it's hard when like little kids like go through grief, but I feel like it's just gonna make him like stronger for those experiences he has later on, or at least a good example of like how to deal with it effectively. 46:31 - Shelby Wagner Yeah, absolutely. I think to have like positive experiences with loss at a young age is so powerful. There's so many adults that don't even know how to do that because we have hidden away and it's a thing that you just quickly get over. I love how you did make it a ritual. When our dog passed and we did have to choose euthanasia at home, we had our daughter a part of it. We asked her if she wanted to and she did want to be there. And I think it's important for them to see that full life circle of not just bringing home the little baby, but that there's a day that we all will face and how to do that in a way that feels loving and a way that leaves room for grief. And so I loved how you guys just had that ritual and preparing her body and planting the tree and letting Luca come up with some ideas, and I just, I feel like I hope those generations are gonna have just a better understanding of emotionality, of grief, of death, because I think that's what makes us a healthier society, being able to hold, be able to hold space for all of that. 47:50 - Khara Collins Yeah, and like, talk about, you know, your feelings around it, because he would, he was bringing it up like weeks after like, oh, I miss Bindi, like, you know, just being around or whatever. And it was nice to be able to like have those conversations like comfortably and not be like, oh, we don't need to talk about that. 48:11 - Unidentified Speaker Yeah. 48:11 - Shelby Wagner Yeah. Don't acknowledge them. Right. 48:13 - Unidentified Speaker Right. 48:13 - Khara Collins Yeah. 48:13 - Shelby Wagner I mean, as far as much as we're like, oh, the body keeps score and everyone throws all around all this stuff. 48:20 - Khara Collins It's like, yeah, it does. 48:22 - Shelby Wagner So let out the things that need to be let out. Right. 48:26 - Khara Collins Yeah, it's like, gotta let it out. 48:29 - Unidentified Speaker Well, okay. 48:29 - Khara Collins So I know I mentioned earlier that I binged our podcast and like, I mean, I usually listen to our episodes like after we record them. And I don't know, every once in a while, I'll just listen to a random one, but I've never listened to it start to finish. And first of all, props to us. It was pretty impressive. Of like the flow of all the episodes and the way they go together it just really kind of highlighted like another example of like it being easy and being in flow and just like all of the themes that come through and we're both like extremely self-aware so like obviously there's repeating themes and things that we're gonna be continuing to integrate but I had a lot of like realizations this day and So I recorded this voice note and I was just going to like Read it back because I meant to put it in Voxer, but I don't know. We had a lot going on in there. And yeah, so I'm just going to Read it. So it'll summarize kind of everything that I figured out, I guess. Okay. Okay, wow. I have done so much today and it's really making me think about how I don't have to things. Everything can get done that needs to get done if I just allow it to flow. This is something that's been highlighted to me in the past few days because I decided to binge the podcast from start to finish which I'd never done before. Usually I listen to an episode after we put it out or sometimes just a random one but never start to finish. What's cool about that is a lot of just like timeline of my journal entries or experiences or different discussions on whatever was happening in life at that time. And of course, there are themes that come up. It's not like we're not aware. A lot of times we're just talking about the same stuff over and over again. One of the things that was really highlighted to me was how addicted I am to the chase. The chase for me has largely been about money most of my adult life, at least in my career. And it wasn't until I stepped down from that career that I got off of that wheel. The past four years have been largely about me deconditioning from that chase and recognizing that I don't need money to feel secure. Of course I need some, but I don't need to just continue chasing it to feel safe. I can create that security within myself. However, the chase has shifted to something else. What's next? Even though that's come up a lot, me recognizing I need to stay more present, hearing it over and over again on the podcast has made me want to make a different choice. As much work as I've done and deconditioning about money, I think this is the next step, to take things one day at a time more often. Not that there's not a place for planning or that I can't plan ahead for stuff, but, sorry, getting so, let's see, where did I go? I had a call come through, I'm sorry. Getting so far into the future often is just not helpful for me. I have a big imagination and it could used for good or not so good. A lot of times I find myself in anxiety mode because of my future thinking, trying to predict outcomes based on past experiences. The truth is, I can't predict it. Yes, my past influences me, but I have the choice in every moment to make a different decision. I can't predict what's going on because I'm actively trying to do something different. In a lot of areas, I've made a lot of changes and progress, but this is one I need to keep working on and make it more of a focus. Being pregnant has allowed me to slow down a lot. I just don't have the energy like I used to. I can still push myself to do things, but it's not as easy and takes longer to recover. I want to sleep a lot, not all day, but I'm taking naps pretty much daily and tuning into my body. It's not just me here. Even though I can't see this baby, I can definitely feel him and whatever I do impacts him. Like it impacts my family. This is a whole different experience. Being pregnant after all this deconditioning and being able to see these patterns and how they've impacted me, I really feel like this baby has helped me slow down, become more aware of reoccurring things, and help me make different choices. Lately I've been waking up and checking in with how I feel instead of sticking to what I had planned. Like this morning, I was tired. I had breakfast with Philip, cleaned the kitchen, and then took a nap. And it was only about an hour, which feels long these days, but sometimes it's two. When I woke up, I felt so much better. I had ideas of what I wanted to do, organize writing, get some posts scheduled, but instead I chilled for a bit, checked emails and job leads for Philip. I even started to turn on the TV, but I didn't want that either. Something that's been on my mind for years now is hypnosis. One of the first things I did after quitting was join a community and started hypnosis. I trained to be a hypnotist. I have all the materials and have even practiced on a few people, but I never really did anything with it. It's been in the back of my mind for so long just to record some and to try and share. It's also come up in readings and in my chart, and I even have the asteroid Hypnos at 29 degrees and cancer in my 12th house, which is like dreams, sleep, hypnosis, all in a healing sign. So I sat on the couch and recorded five different hypnosis sessions. It was raining, and as I've said before, I am influenced by the weather. If it's sunny, I'm into it. If it's rainy, I'm reading a book. But I did it. I recorded them. They're short, under 10 minutes each. One was about releasing the belief that money has to be hard to make. While listening, I yawned the whole time, a big release sign for me, and tears started streaming, which happens to me in deep meditation, hypnosis, or somatic work. Not just tears. That one session hit deep. I sent it to a couple of friends, one was Shelby and Morgan, who both said it resonated. One of them did it and said that she dropped in deep and got a lot of insight. It felt really good to see how easy it was to create and share and I didn't get caught up in making it perfect. I just put it out there and that's enough for now. After that I did a workshop that I thought I had missed. It was all about creating a book of creative wisdom. Visualization questions like, what question would you ask your book? What's the title? Chapters? Introduction? What would it look like, It sounds overwhelming, but it wasn't. It flowed. It was intuitive and perfectly aligned with the hypnosis I had just done. Later, I ended up making chili, enchiladas, cornbread, just a bunch of stuff. Before that, I had vacuumed, dusted, and did a bunch of like lingering things around the house. I still felt like I chilled a lot of the day, but also got a ton done without force. That's the energy I want to live in more often. It felt like proof through myself to myself that I'm capable of this, that it is possible. Jeez, welcome to my sermon. 55:40 - Shelby Wagner Love it. So many things. I know. 55:43 - Khara Collins I was like, I feel like I have these moments like during this whole process where like, you know, we're actively talking about it, but then it's like things just really like click and I don't know I the voice note really helps me just like capture it more than journaling because like listening back to myself like hearing the tone and everything it just like makes a hit different. 56:07 - Shelby Wagner Yeah well and I think that there's those times where it is like a major download of like all the things syncing and it's like to try to write as fast as your brain is moving about and this and that's connecting and oh my gosh look at this see how that's of all, but it's like talking is so much easier to like get it out and like, and be able to keep exploring the connection points. Because I just love how you like, we've been that thread of like, started with like, allow it to flow and moving into, you're addicted to the chase, and then you replaced it with like becoming addicted to what's next and how this pregnancy, you know, and this baby is, is challenging you to slow down and really luxuriate in that, let it be easy, allow it to flow. And so how all of these themes are woven together, it's just really cool to hear how that's all syncing up for you. 57:10 - Khara Collins Yeah, it's really exciting too, because we have a transit going on right now. I think it's Uranus and Taurus, and I I can't remember the time, I think it's seven years. And when I think back, because Horace is my 10th house in my career area of my chart, and just like how much has changed. Like that was like the whole timeline of me getting this dream job and promoted and having my money dreams come true. And now like this very end point, like it's going to be moving into Gemini, like I think it's Monday. All of this stuff kind of coming together and like showing me like this money thing but also me like chasing still and just like realizing like hey you know what it's possible if you let it for it to just be like chill and easy like mm-hmm and so like I know it's again this is a theme that's not like new it's definitely been on pretty much every podcast episode probably and I don't know it just feels good for it to kind of like click in a new way or for me to like really get it and I don't know I'm just excited to make that more of like a focus, like presence as a practice. Because it's also like, I think it's my pearl in Gene Keys. It's one of the main ones about being present. And that's how I like unlock everything. 58:31 - Shelby Wagner So and what better way to practice than have a baby, a newborn. 58:36 - Khara Collins And be present. 58:37 - Shelby Wagner And you know, it's like, I think it's just a good example of like, even these themes feel familiar, you know, we are constantly approaching them with a new perspective from what we've healed from the last time that it came around. 58:53 - Unidentified Speaker Right. 58:54 - Shelby Wagner And I just continue to come back to that visual of not just going around in a circle, but going in a spiral. Right. And even though it's like, oh, I've seen this sign before, like, but it's on this next level of the ramp. And now it's different because I'm different and I've healed a part, but I'm still healing. And I think sometimes people can get frustrated and abandon that self-awareness, personal development journey because it's like, I've already tried to work through this and I thought I did and it's still here. And it's like, I don't know if it's ever going to go away. Unfortunately, it's just about how are you orienting to it? It, how do you approach it when it appears on your path, that to me is the progress that you're making. It's like, yep, so when that comes back around in the spiral, how are we going to orient to it now, now with what I know and what I've learned and what I've healed and what's going on in my life in the present? As you were talking, I was reminded, I think Morgan was talking to us about this, of how let go of bringing past stories into our present moment because they will cloud what we truly feel aligned to do. And I feel like you're just a good example of how you've been trying to let go of those past stories and not bringing them to the present moment of some of those simpler challenges. And that's what feels like a dissonance there of like, okay, but it's an issue, a challenge I've seen before. But it can't bring that old story, that old way of how I approached it. It's like detaching those. And I think about how perhaps this Uranus in Gemini will be maybe like kicking off some of that, like the death to the old systems and the old stories and something new. And this nine year being like letting go of those old patterns and letting something new take shape, like so much is saying, let go of what is no longer needed. 1:01:06 - Unidentified Speaker Yes, I'm definitely people in this case. 1:01:09 - Khara Collins Like I get so pissed off and it's like, dude, this has taken, how old am I? 36 years? Like, it's okay if it takes like two or three for you to like step down from the ledge. 1:01:23 - Shelby Wagner Like reacting the same way. 1:01:25 - Khara Collins Because that's the other thing. It's like, logically, I know these things, but like practicing them and creating that new neural pathway and behavior change is something completely different. And I feel like that's why it's so important to record what's happening, whether it's journaling, or podcasting, or voice noting, whatever. Being able to witness myself has been such a game changer in this whole experience. And that's another thing that we talk about probably every episode. But it's like, how else are you going to look at what doing if you don't have a mirror, whether it's another person or your own reflection. And yeah, it feels really freeing. And another thing I didn't mention in that clip, but something that I've been integrating this whole time is Boundaries. Shout out to my aunt and uncle that gave me that book back in 2016 or 2017, which is when Uranus moved into Taurus. 1:02:27 - Unidentified Speaker I didn't know anything about boundaries. 1:02:29 - Khara Collins And even having that book, I don't even know if I Read the whole thing, but it just became very clear that that was like the main issue that I was having is like giving all my time and energy to other people and not doing what I wanted to do. And even this year, like I had to really kind of review what I was showing up for and what I was getting out of it and like what my goals were. And if they were like not aligned, and I just had to make some cuts. And it felt kind of hard at the time, but you know, even these few short months, I feel like doing that helped me like make so much progress in being able to like show up for myself, show up for others, respond differently, and especially family situations. Like when I talk about boundaries, it is largely my family. 1:03:17 - Shelby Wagner And just, you know, kind of not getting into it. 1:03:20 - Khara Collins There's been a few opportunities in the last few months where I've been different family members and my first pattern that I ever broke through through EMDR was being put in the middle from like my childhood experience of like growing up with divorced parents right and recreating situations in my life over and over again where I'm putting myself in the middle and one of the ways I do that is like feeling like I need to be the mediator like help people like get through their shit and it's like you know what I'm not a part of this problem. This is between you guys. But also like dealing with that guilt of like, and it's like, that's like the reflex that comes up, right? Like feeling that guilt, like, Oh my God, I'm not doing my part. But it's like, sit down. This is not your part. Like you weren't even there. Like, just go take a nap. And being able to do that a couple different times and just kind of like reinforcing that pattern for me and seeing like, Oh, the world didn't end. Like my family still loves me. And actually, they're probably like, better off. 1:04:20 - Shelby Wagner without me like, right, you know, so that was another thing that's happened. 1:04:25 - Khara Collins That's and it's also been one of those cycle things because around this time, the last couple years, it's around June, that I have this like boundary, like major boundary thing in my family come up. And it's been cool to see like how I've responded to it each time and how it's gotten better and better and easier and easier and that whole integration spiral. I love the spiral. That's a great way to describe it.