45 | How Jairo Guerrero Uses AI to Reinvent SEO Strategy

What does SEO look like in a world dominated by AI tools like ChatGPT and Perplexity? Audrey Chia sits down with Jairo Guerrero, software engineer turned SEO expert and co-founder of Organic Hackers, to unpack how search is evolving. They explore how AI can automate backend processes, the pitfalls of relying on mass-generated content, and why Google still matters for scalable, sustainable growth. 

Whether you're building for brand visibility or transactional traffic, Jairo’s insights offer a clear roadmap through the noise.

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Transcript

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Audrey Chia 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the AI Marketers Playbook, where we cover actionable frameworks to help you leverage AI and marketing strategies in your business. I'm Audrey Chair, your host, and tOday I have with me Jairo Guerrero, a software engineer, turn marketer with. Over a decade of experience in the e-commerce space. Now, Jairo has built websites, scaled pay ads, and carved out some serious SEO wins, including helping a client dominate a super competitive marketplace and secure a multi-million dollar Euro acquisition. Now, Jairo is the co-founder of Organic Hackers, where he helps big brands with, you know, not so great SEO. Turn things around using technical SEO smart automation and strategic content. Today, Jairo is here to talk about something super interesting, the changing phase of search and how AI is quietly reshaping the rules of the game. Jairo, it's great to have you with us.

Jairo Guerrero 0:49

Uh, thank you very much for having me, Audrey. It's a pleasure. I was looking forward to, to share some insights from, uh, using LLMs and AI as our marketing channel.

Audrey Chia 0:58

Awesome to hear. Could you tell us a bit more about your story? Um, I know you were in SEO long before AI started. Tell us where you started and how did AI come into that picture?

Jairo Guerrero 1:08

Um, well, my background is technical. I'm a software engineer. Um, and then when I started freelancing, I realized that, um, marketing had a lot more impact on my skills as a software engineer. Like I could just generate more revenue and, uh, more sales to my clients, not because of technology, but just because using pay channels like Google Ads, um. And, um, from there I went, uh, from paid channels to organic traffic. And then I realized that, uh, SEO is one of the most scalable channels ever. Even though now things are change, are changing, is still very powerful. Um, so yeah, I, I've been working focusing a lot more in the. Past five years only on SEO. But the last 10 years I've been working with SEO and building websites and paid channels mostly on the e-commerce spectrum. Um, but I'm also helping, uh, B2B companies in the software space or in the tech space. Um, so yeah, that's, that's more or less what I hope I can share and fit, uh, within this 30 minutes today.

Audrey Chia 2:01

Yeah. And when AI came along, what happened then? Like, was it a big shift for you? Were you excited to embrace it? Tell us what it was like? I.

Jairo Guerrero 2:08

So I, I think, has been a very long process of adaptation. So there is no moment where I said, okay, I'm gonna just start using, uh, ai, um, as being a very long journey. Uh, especially if you're in the tech, tech space, if you're a software engineer, machine learning, uh, and, and big data has been. In the game for a very long time. So you could use and leverage, uh, decision making through, uh, algorithms. Algorithms. Um, so for me that was not nothing new. Um, the part that was new was that it was in the mass market and everybody could use such a, such a. Uh, intelligence and such a technology, uh, with tools like ChatGPT and E made it easier to automate small processes. So, for example, we work with a lot of data analysis, so we have bunch of, uh, uh, data points that we need to analyze so that that came to be a bit faster. So we started implementing, uh, data analysis with, uh, with ai, uh, which makes our process slightly easier, but it doesn't, uh, take us away from the picture. Um, so mostly in the processes automation rather than in generating content. Um, eventually when we. Have to create content for our clients. We have a pool of writers and experts on the matter, so we don't need to actually, we eventually trust that they use ai, but in the best way possible. Uh, but we don't use AI so much to generate content. We use it to automate processes and be a bit more, uh, efficiently. That sense.

Audrey Chia 3:31

Well, that's interesting to hear, right? Because most people would assume that AI generated content would be the focus of this shift, but you're also talking about using AI to streamline your own company's work processes. Yeah. Um, while helping your clients drive results. Right. And for maybe people who don't really understand, 'cause SEO is such a big word, people throw it around, but not many people understand what on earth is it? Can you tell us a bit more in simple terms what SEO is and how it has evolved with ai?

Jairo Guerrero 3:56

Um, wow. This is a very, uh, challenging question. Uh, what is SEO? So basically. Uh, through the years until, um, chat GPT and search GPT most importantly came, uh, came to play. SEO is pretty much being number one or being top three choices on Google search. Um, so what do you want Is that your business is authoritative, um, has enough. Online footprint, meaning that your brand is mentioned by others, uh, that your brand appears in, in different, uh, digital assets. It can be in the news, it can be in social media. So all of that kind of, uh, uh, strength, uh, make makes your brand strong and, um, and helps you to rank for, for, uh, the terms that you want to be visible. Let's say that you, you sell, um, I don't know, um. Shoes. Uh, so whenever somebody is searching for shoes online, you want to be visible because eventually those are potential customers. Plus being visible organically through Google, um, makes it very sustainable because you don't need to pay for every click that comes to your website and is exponential. Um, so in this case, for example, um, uh, the, the biggest win that I ever had with a client, uh, we went from, for example, 2000 visitors a day. To, uh, 60,000, uh, visitors in one day. So that multiplier is impossible to replicate in pretty much any channel. Um, and the sustainability of it, because we didn't reach, uh, that amount of visitors per day. In one day. We went. Through multiple months with a heavy, um, amount of, uh, visitors in our website. And, um, that is not possible with any other channel. Social media, you could go from zero to 100,000 very in a very short time, but it's not sustainable. Uh, with and with any other channel, pay channel, you cannot pay your way from 2K to 60 K 'cause be sustainable. It cost. Yeah. Yeah. So. Because of the power and the impact that SEO could have in a business and eventually in the live lives, uh, of many, I decided to just entirely focus there and leave paid channels and development behind. Uh, but those, those, um, experiences helped me to actually leverage a much better, uh, service in terms of a CO and, um, how AI changed all of these spectrum of search is. So before. Or currently we are depending on who, uh, who you are, what type of user you are. So not everybody's using ChatGPT at the moment. Most of us, but not, not of all of us. So the people that do, do not use ChatGPT, they need to find the information through Google. They need to curate, read the information, and make their make up their minds. So they need to make a decision based on different sources as opposed to. Um, ChatGPT where you have to actually just ask a question and you don't need to look at different sources. You just get all the answer that you want and you don't need to do anything else. So that differentiation of, uh, result is, um, is what is changing how we do SEO. Before it was entirely focused on Google. Now it's focused on, uh, search engines like, uh. Perplexity, for example. So how do they gather information? How do they, um, quote or which, uh, sources do they quote? Sometimes they don't even quote the, the sources of information. So there's a lot of, um, stolen traffic and stolen attention from those platforms towards the actual, uh, publishers and, and website owners. So there's a huge shift in terms of traffic and attention. So now, as a SEO professionals, we need to understand how to invest, uh, the budget, how to leverage to be mentioned, at least, uh, by, uh, AI search engines. 'cause now being mentioned, I guess is the most important, uh. Task that we need to achieve. Uh, so that's one of the biggest changes that we currently are just learning as we go because there's no playbook or anything like that. Um, but our main, um, goal has shifted from only Google I. Center marketing strategy towards every single platform strategy and not, not even including, uh, search engines. We could go to social media. So how you appear more often in social media, how you appear more often on YouTube, how you appear more often in different channels and everything around it will just boost your, your results. So it's kind of going from one channel only Google towards multiple channels altogether, like not even in search, but social media. Paid, uh, whatever channel you might think of. Wow. Yeah. It's

Audrey Chia 8:12

gonna, it sounds like it's gonna be so much more challenging now for SEO professionals, uh, to navigate this changing world, right? It's like now you've gotta diversify and be everywhere. But I know you say there is no playbook for how to rank on an AI search, right? So how have. How has your agency been navigating that, um, and how are you helping clients figure out how to be seen on GPT or perplexity

Jairo Guerrero 8:37

so many times? Um, so this is very funny. I have, uh, quite some prospects that they didn't want to do. SEO they wanted to do, I don't know, how do they call it, but they, they only want the AI searching. They don't want Google anymore. Okay. I was like, okay. Yeah, that was my, my first reaction. So there is a, there is a, a mindset, um, split between what SEO used to be or what SEO is and what AI search is. Um, and there's, there's a huge overlap between, uh, the search results on, on AI search, uh, depending on the, on the vertical. Of course, I'm not saying they are the same, but there's a, an overlap in terms of. Yeah, if, if you are number one on Google, there's high chances that you'll be, uh, number one on, on search GPT. But there's so many changes and AI search is so vol volatile right now that it's very difficult to conclude, uh, something. But, um, I'd say then in the, in the tech space, things that are not so, um, harmful. So everything that is outside health outside, uh, um. Anything that can harm by, uh, the wrong advice. It is not so difficult in terms of, um, using it as a, as a marketing channel. Um, for example, I'm working with tech companies that sell, I don't know, uh, devices, technical devices, screens, um, uh, IOT products. So those. Industries are a bit safer because they don't harm anybody. So the, they, um, ChatGPT can eventually quote other sources. Um, they can quote different websites, and as long as you have a very strong strategy for SEO, you're pretty much well, um, in other rankings, in other, uh, search engines. Uh, for example, ChatGPT uses Bing eventually uses Bing. Um. Search engine as a base, one of the sources of information. So if you can run well in Bing, uh, which means that you're ranking well already on Google, um, there, there's a huge overlap in, in the sense like you don't need to do extra and more and more interesting. So there's, there's first an overlap. So sometimes I say, listen, we could go down the path of just going AI search, but there's a lot to win on on. Uh, good old fashioned, uh, SEO there, there's a lot of customers. The platform has like, I don't know, a gazillion searches per per second. So why switching so quickly? So it is a new, fancy thing, of course, but sometimes I say, if you want to go that path, then just reserve a budget for research and development, because that eventually won't get you anything back anytime soon. Um, so I'm, I'm trying to split towards what is your goals, how you want to achieve, uh, your current, um, yeah, revenue goals. And based on that, I help them to understand, well, okay, then let's do this strategy based on, on transactional queries, on things that will bring you revenue or let's just. Play around and do, uh, research and development, but you need to be aware that there's no arrow oi there anytime soon, so there's no return on investment. Um, so that, I don't know if that covers the question that you Yes. That you framed,

Audrey Chia 11:32

but, but it's so interesting, right? Because. I think you mentioned, um, there needs to be more time spent on research and development. I think there are a lot of people out there who may talk about ai, SEO but at the same time, it's changing so rapidly. Um, and the field is so evolving so quickly, right, that there needs to be a lot more insight, uh, into how it actually works. I wanted to pivot a bit into another question that I've seen most people ask and even. I have that question. Right. So going back to traditional search, right? Um, is AI generated content penalized on Google? Or is that still a big question that nobody knows?

Jairo Guerrero 12:05

Um, yeah. So not by definition it's not penalized. So because AI generated content is not a bad thing per definition, so, uh, for example, I have sometimes a lot of thoughts, uh, a lot of, um. Um, conclusions that I do because I analyze many websites and then I try to build a post about it, uh, for LinkedIn. And then what I do is I just put all my rish in cha g PT and say, can, can you help me to frame this better? So, and also English is not my first language, so I might have typos or I grammar, grammar errors. Um, so the output is an AI generated content based on the input that I gave. So that is actually unique content. Based on what I gave. So by definition, AI generated content is not bad. So it's not penalized because it's just AI generated. How it's penalized is, um, on a different, um, angle. So most people, because of AI generated content, doesn't cause much to generate. They generate hundreds of pages with it. Now, the problem with it is that. Everybody's doing the same. So, uh, and, and you need to take into account that search engines need to crawl, especially Google needs to crawl every single website, every single page. So that is trillions and trillions of, um, of web pages that need to be crawled. Now that everybody's publishing AI generated content in bulk, now that has multiplied by 10 or by a hundred, that costs a lot of money. Uh. For Google to do that. Crawling and indexing the so analyzing if your page is good. And so the more pages you have or the most more pages we all publish, the less chances you have to, uh, to win in the sense of Google understands that you can only publish, uh, a specific amount of pages per day. If you publish 1000 pages all at once, that is a bit too much. That is something that even if Google will be able to crawl it, it will take way too much time because everybody's doing the same. So, um, I've seen many cases in which the solution was AI generated content because they don't need to write much. So everything is generated easily. And what happened is that they sync the rankings 'cause the quality of what they published was not good. So the entire kind of, um, perspective of the quality of the website was lowered. So now pages that we're doing before are really good. Now they aren't. Um, and um, the entire website just decreased rankings, lost traffic, lost. Sales lost everything, and I've seen a couple of cases like that. So in the beginning, that might help because this content that is fed into the machine, but then the machine also compares. So it's not like an isolated website that they see. They see hundreds of websites within your niche and they need to test which ones are best. So the quality versus the amount is what will make your website rank or not. So if there's literally no competition, you can publish endless AI genetic content and you will win. But if there is hard competition, if there's a lot of demand, Google might be a bit more, uh, cautious about the results that they search and they test. Sometimes they put you in number one. Sometimes they put you in number four and they see which results trigger best experience or best, best engagement. And then, um, your website might be penalized not because of the AI generated content. It's because in perspective against your competitors, you're doing a lot worse. So if your problem is that you don't have enough content, the solution is not to publish all of a sudden thousands and thousands of pages that have no value. Your solution is. Go and, and, and be active on, on social media. Be active on LinkedIn so people will see the authority of your, of your profile, and they will link in towards your business. Uh, run, um, uh, digital PR campaigns appear in the news, appear in the newspaper, uh, make noise as a brand. So we need to be visible and strong. Uh, so every business needs to be focusing a lot more on that and a lot less on. Uh, shortcuts. Like let's publish 20,000 pages, um, for no reason 'cause that that won't be working, not because of Google will penalize it because AI generated content. It's because there is a lot of different factors. So, yeah. Um, yeah.

Audrey Chia 16:01

Wow. And I think that the key point that I took out is that part of quality, right, like AI generated content doesn't mean it's good quality content. And you always have to add that, you know, human touch, even for copywriting. Um, when I use AI in my workflows, there's always that additional human touch, human story or human flare that gets the copy to a standard that I want it to be. Mm-hmm. And can I ask for people who perhaps, you know. One to use AI tools to build their blocks. What can they do to then make sure that the quality of the articles still remain really high?

Jairo Guerrero 16:31

Mm-hmm. So there is a lot of enhancement tools for when you're writing. Again, as I said, sometimes my English is not good, my thoughts are not correctly framed, so if I write straight from my head, it will be messy. Um, so indeed you can use tools to make it everything easier. You can, uh, use those tools to see. Whether what others are posting and kind of level up your, your quality. Um, there is, uh, a tool that I use a lot that is called surfer, like a surfing, um, uh, the sea. So Surfer, SEO is known. It was, uh, built a few years ago. And, um, such a tool, uh, helps you to, um, first understand what you're missing. Because sometimes, um, let's say that we are posting on our website about, uh, how to build a podcast, and then we are missing specific angles of that topic. So what tools can you use to build a podcast, AI to build a podcast or different ways that you can talk, talk about the same topic, and sometimes you don't. You just miss it. You just don't know. And, uh, the tool, what helps you is to match the search intent in your industry. And they tell you what you're missing that is relevant for your industry, for your website. So they don't tell you just random topics or random, um, keywords. They tell you, listen, within your niche, within the topics that you're writing about, this is what you're missing and this is why. And then after, once you, because they have a, like a, a map. A topical map, uh, they call and, uh, it's literally a map. You can see what you're missing is fantastic, and then you can just select the topic that you're missing and you can just go click and generate and either can generate the entire thing. Uh, so you can just edit it. And they have a fantastic, um, uh, editor for, for your content you can prompt in your own article. To generate whatever you want, you can modify it. Uh, I think they added lately generation of images, but I like to create the infographic so I don't use that. That much. Uh, but that tool I, I find is very, very complete in terms of, um, generating content with a good, uh, AI bugged, uh, intelligence.

Audrey Chia 18:31

Definitely. And, but if, so, the question then is if everyone is using Pho right, to generate articles about a specific product, then how would one company win another if it's all AI generated content? So what do then teams need to do to make sure that it's not all the same?

Jairo Guerrero 18:46

So I guess, um, with or without ai, I think the same will apply. So I had a multiple cases where I have multiple clients within the same industry. Actually, there were competitors, which is not the best situation where you have to be because then, uh, there's a lot of, uh, risk involved. So you have, um. I, I, in many, not many cases, all of the cases happened this, so I have one website that is not like the best. I will give it a six out of 10, but they, uh, were very active on, on the, on the media. So they appear in, in many, uh, publications all across, uh, the CNN, the CBS, uh, US Digital Assets News. Um. And their website was not like, fantastic. Their articles were like, uh, okay. And then I had this other client within the same exact, same vertical, and they didn't have anything of that. They had some, some influencers, collaborations. They had, um, some appearance also in, in digital assets and digital pr. Uh, campaigns, but they was not, not so much, so focused, and they were not so strong in that area, but their website was a nine out of 10, so their setup, so the asset as an SEO was fantastic, was way better than the other competitor. Yet the other competitor was always winning every single topic, every single keyword. They were ranking number one above the other co. The other company. So that in the end summarizes everything. Um, they had a much stronger appearance. They were much better known, uh, to the public, and that pays your way up to the top rankings. It's a consequence, I guess, like Google. I. Knows, let's say, knows as much as a regular person might know. Um, so you know, ikea, so IKEA might come first place. Uh, there are many ways of course, that you can overcome that, um, that burden. But I. Working on, on online presence, I think is the most important.

Audrey Chia 20:39

Wow. And that's very interesting to hear, right? So you have companies, again, in the same niche and yet they outperform because of other factors, um, that can contribute to this. Going back to what you said about search, right? You mentioned that now traditionally, you know, you. Perhaps look to optimize on Google, and now you have to optimize on different platforms for AI search. Mm-hmm. Can you tell us more about that process? Um, so for a company who say, I want to appear on perplexity or chat GPT, where do they begin?

Jairo Guerrero 21:07

Um, I'd say that actually where you begin it will be extremely similar, if not the same. For all the channels. So where will you, you begin is, uh, you need to match where your customers are, what they want, and what you have, and make a match between those because many times SEO fails because there's no match between. Um, our audience and the content that we publish. So most of the time I come to a website that has zero relevance for the audience, and that is the main problem. And then we write good articles for what the audience wants. That has a, a relatively good, uh, market or good demand. And, uh, then we go up the rankings pretty quickly. So I would say match first. What people want with what you can provide and then match it with, how good is that for the business? What you want in the end is you, if you appear in any channel, try to, depending on which stage. If you're a corporate, of course you have a lot more money to invest. If you're a startup, you need money tomorrow, so you need a client to sign up tomorrow, the latest. So depending on that, that urgency of revenue, um, I will say. Uh, for transactional queries, there is more chances on Google. So just keep doing your SEO as you would. Um, good content strategy, good topic strategy, focus on the. Content that will be attached to the revenue. So if you sell shoes, try to be appearing for, uh, best shoes for as, uh, for men, uh, running. So you need to be available for that query. And if you want to appear in other platforms that summarize the information, which means that people won't buy immediately, um, make sure that. You craft extremely valuable and simple content to read. Um, and that is extremely quotable. So for example, uh, if somebody's asking, um, uh, what are the best running shoes for men? Uh, um, gimme a list. Uh, you need to make sure that you can craft answers for that. Extremely easy to quote, extremely simple, and that go to the point of your answer straight away. Um. And, um, the more online footprint that you have, the easier it will get to, to get you as a source. Um, so participate in as many podcasts as you want. Uh, be visible on social media. Um, be really active on giving, uh, or leaving a trace behind you in terms of brand. Um, because I think that that would be the most important, um, asset for any channel. Like, as I said, um. Before I had clients that had a very strong online presence and they didn't have to do much else. So I will say that, that that is the, the core, the core, uh, focus.

Audrey Chia 23:37

Yeah, I think like what you mentioned being present on different channels. Um, also strateg strategically and with methods. So if someone is searching on Google, do you think they'll have a different search behavior as if they were to use chat GPT? And does it affect how brands should be reacting?

Jairo Guerrero 23:54

Yeah, so I think Google, I think is going down towards more, um, transactional, uh, marketplace. Um, so you use Google whenever you really want to buy something or whenever you need to fix something straight away. So it's more urgency based and, uh. Perplexity of GPT. We have it open the entire day through our workday. So it is a more, uh, companion that we use to check some things, gimme some information, gimme some ideas. So the intent is not urgency. So I, I don't have the time I. Uh, sorry, I don't have the, the a need to buy something. Um, that will come with time. Uh, I guess ChatGPT will launch soon an e-commerce platform, and we will all, all go there to buy something. Um, but the search intent, yeah, I, I think most. Most of the time in, in a s search platforms, we don't know them as a s search platforms. We know them as a chat chat bot that we can, we can interact and get something out of it, but we never get anything back, uh, from Google, for example, directly. Uh, because we want something, we want, uh, to touch something. We want to buy something, we want to go travel something. And also because of the limitations of the other platforms, that they cannot help you to book or, uh, do everything automated at the moment. Uh, we use it a lot more as a, an informational, uh, intent. So we want information to use it. In the way that we want, and Google is more, I want to solve a problem right now. So I would say for, um, if you want to focus on revenue, go and do Google, focus on Google. If you want to focus on visibility and making sure that you are safe and cover for ai search, go to, um, develop, uh, develop, um, strategies for platforms like ChatGPT and uh, and perplexity and Claude and all the other platforms.

Audrey Chia 25:36

Do you think that, I know you mentioned Cloud and you know, chat, GBT and perplexity, that's really three different platforms, right? Do you think that the way brands have to optimize for each platform has to be different? So do you think there needs to be a more granular strategy for every single, you know, AI search Yeah. Platform,

Jairo Guerrero 25:52

even per model it, the results change per model within the same AI search engine. So. Yeah, it is, it is almost impossible to be so active in every single task that you need to do to be present in every single search channel. Um, but for now, I would say focus on the biggest, always depending on the budget. If you have plenty of money to invest in and development and research, just go and do whatever you want. Um, Claude is known because they are, uh, good with coding, same as copilot. Uh, search GPT is good for everything. Uh, Gemini is a very powerful but yeah, go and test, like there is no specific playbook yet, is a lot about testing and, and making sure that you run the same query in different, so there there is this, um, visibility tools for LLMs just. Just get one of those and, and launch your query, your relevant queries into those platforms and see if you're appear and if you don't appear and who appears and why they appear. Um. Don't, don't overanalyze because the results are extremely volatile right now. They change very often and uh, every single model update might change everything.

Audrey Chia 27:02

That's, I think that's the. Most exciting part about ai, but also can be very daunting. Right. It changes so quickly. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so hard for people, um, even us AI first founders to keep up. How, how do you feel that SEO agencies are navigating this whole new world? I'm sure it must have come as a big shock as it came, you know, with a big shock for copywriters and marketers as well. What have you seen and noticed?

Jairo Guerrero 27:26

Um, yeah, it's been difficult. So, um, because of AI and the perceived value of what you do. As a copywriter or as an SEO is, is, is lowered. Like if ChatGPT can do it, why, why should I pay you, for example? Um, which is totally fair. Like we don't, we like in the end, our clients focus on on, on money, on revenue, of course, in results. But if you can do something for 10th the prize, then. Might be worth, uh, looking at it, um, to me was more, um, so indeed we had issues with companies that wanted to buy only content driven, SEO. Um, and then we realized that there is a good, um. Niche is still, and there is a lot of developments to do in technical SEO 'cause the website has become bigger. Big brands want to test different methods with AI or just want to optimize their website and everything. Everybody's focused on the shiny thing, which is AI content or AI generation. Uh, and nobody's focusing on technical. Uh, SEO, which is actually extremely complex and extremely hard for many SEOs because not everybody has a technical, uh, background. So we realized that there's a lot of corporate companies that still rely on regular. Technical, SEO. So we found a good niche still there. And then we find companies and clients that want to work with us in that niche. And, uh, we are good at it. Um, but we, but we indeed saw a drop in, in the companies that want content, uh, as, as a deliverable, as a, as a value for them. Um, so for us was, okay, if people don't want one of our services, how we can improve the service, uh, which we are still in the process of automating as much as possible, the, the content, uh, SEO campaigns. But then we found another vertical, which is technical, SEO, which is very, very difficult to automate. Nobody's paying attention. You need a high level of technical abilities to, to provide value, and there's not much competition. So we, we navigated getting out of the, of the AI content and we went more to a niche that pretty much is empty and nobody's focusing on.

Audrey Chia 29:27

Wow. I I love it.

Jairo Guerrero 29:27

It's complex. Yeah.

Audrey Chia 29:29

No, but it's, it's so beautiful, right? So you like a new, you know, AI comes to take over our jobs and then clients are saying, no, I don't wanna do this anymore. But yeah, you found something within your existing scope of work, uh, that is something you can do. That's something you have. Talent for, and that's something that clients still need and cannot be as easily replaced with ai. And that also then presents your agency the opportunity to grow in ways that you might not even have thought of before this, you know, big AI transition and shift. Mm-hmm. And I think that AI gives us, um, you know, as, uh, creators, um, founders new ways to solve problems, and you have to think like what you said very creatively and yeah, the box. I, I know you mentioned something about, um, automation, right? You were looking for ways to automate a lot of the processes in your agency. Can you tell us more about that?

Jairo Guerrero 30:17

Um, yeah, so the, the analysis that we do, uh, in every campaign, uh, takes a lot of time. So eventually we, we analyze the competitors, we gather a lot of data. Um, we create like a. Content playbook so we know what we're writing for. Uh, so we create a lot of documentation and that is valid for any channel. We create it from the perspective of SEO, but it can, it can be and has been reused to different channels. So newsletters, um, uh, podcasts or YouTube or even events where we kind of know who are we talking to. This is our profile. This is what we have, uh, to provide them value. Um, and that takes a lot of time. And what are we doing now is using, uh, AI workflows. So, for example, we have a call like this with our client and base. We have a set of questions where we gather all the information that we need to generate the right strategy. So what we are doing is, uh, for example, um. Uh, with tools like Gum Loop or uh, eight and eight, uh, we create, uh, workflows. Uh, one workflow could be, uh, have a call with a client based on this call. Uh, prepare the framework for the documentation, uh, based on each response or in each. Um, part of the conversation, give me keyword ideas, and then we connect those keyword ideas to our SE O2 to actually test if those ideas have a search, uh, market. And then from that we actually speed up a small of a process that we would have to do otherwise manually. Um. But building that process properly, which involves a lot of data analysis, a lot of data points, requires a lot of internal development, preparing databases, making sure that if something cannot be completed with a tool that we are using for automation, we need to build something ad hoc. We need to understand how to, um, we cannot, uh, tune an LLM, but we can use, um. RAG, which is rack, um, implementation. So we have an entire set of rules and playbooks and data, and we feed that as a rack system so we can generate a proper, um, strategy based on accurate data. Um, instead of prompting punches of CSVs and a lot of data because that, that will generate bad output. Because it will lose context. 'cause sometimes we, we work with sheets with 10,000 rows or 20,000 rows. So we cannot rely on prompting 10,000 rows of data to check. GPT will break, it won't get, get us anything back. Um, so even though we are optimizing each of the step of the process that we manually do, because it's extremely complex, um. In terms of, of the mindset that you need to, or the, the mind power that you need to have, it requires to have technical knowledge. So it's not as easy as you plug two, two tools and they are. I. Working perfectly. Um, what we are doing, it requires us to set up databases, making sure that we connect correctly. So some technical abilities are needed to proper automation. Um, but there are other automations that are a lot, a lot easier. For example, give these, uh, blog posts to the tool and the blog post gives you like 10 different LinkedIn posts. That is a lot easier and that that is also valid, uh, solid, um, strategy. We are just testing, but we, we don't have anything live yet. Um, we are kind of running what we do to, uh, together with the manual work. So we are doing four times the work sometimes just to see if the output of the AI is good. Uh, it is safe at some point to leave the AI to do the work, but we haven't reached that point yet.

Audrey Chia 33:47

Wow. I, I really like the thought process and how rigorous that process is. Right? And like contrary to what most people believe where it, why can't you just use ai? Like what you just said, right? There's so much thought that goes behind building a solution that actually works for your business. And your clients. And that takes time, expertise, and knowledge. And you saw value in investing, um, and pivoting in that space. So I think that is always awesome to hear. Now for perhaps listeners who are founders and they know SEOA little bit, but they haven't fully invested in it, and yet they see that GPT come along and they're like, what do I do now? What is one piece of advice you can give them?

Jairo Guerrero 34:25

Um. Most likely where your industry is. If you focus on being number one on Google or in traditional search engines, you will be, um, you will be safe if you want to keep developing for developing for, um, only AI search. Don't focus on AI search, only focus on every single, every other single channel that you might think of 'cause that will leverage your appearance into AI search. That is the piece of advice I can give. So don't focus on AI search only on AI search. Like AI search is nothing. Everything that is around it, everything that is around your brand will help you to rank better or to appear and be mentioned by in a search.

Audrey Chia 35:14

And that's a golden piece of nugget right there. Okay. So if you are listening, you know what to do now. Jairo, thank you so much for sharing your insights. My pleasure. Where can our listeners find you and who should reach out to you?

Jairo Guerrero 35:25

Um, so you can find me on LinkedIn. I try to pose five, six times per week, everything related with SEO and LLMs. Um, you can find me also on my website. Organic hackers.com that I co-founded with a, uh, Patrick Wach, a fantastic technical SEO as well. And, um, you can reach out to me if you want to know anything about AI search and SEO, like whatever question you might have, 'cause that actually questions push me to. Research deeper. So because people is asking me stuff, I have to go and find the answer. 'cause I don't know it. Most of the time. I don't know many answers. Um, so as long as you have interest in AI search and um, and SEO, you can reach out to me if you really want to fix your, your rankings. Uh, you're SEO rankings and if you have a brand that has thousands of visitors per day, then I'm the person that can help you to actually leverage much better results.

Audrey Chia 36:22

Awesome to hear. Thank you so much again for sharing your expertise and insights, RO and thank you folks for tuning in. Don't forget to hit the bell for more actionable AI and marketing insights. We'll see you next week. Take care.

Jairo Guerrero 36:33

Bye-bye.