AgriCulture Live

The Future of UK Farming with Nuffield Scholar Dan Smith - 'Generation Regeneration' and Engaging Youth in Agriculture

• Rebekah • Season 1 • Episode 17

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What happens when a passionate farmer and a forward-thinking scholar meet? Today, Dan Smith from the Wye Valley joins us to explore the future of agriculture in the UK. As a current Nuffield Scholar, Dan takes us through his unique journey into farming, the sense of community it brings, and the rewarding task of producing quality food and public goods. Learn how the Nuffield Scholarship fosters global research and networking, and dive deep into Dan's focus topic, "Generation Regeneration," which underscores the urgent need for youth and diversity in farming.

Is there a growing disconnect between children and agriculture? Our conversation uncovers the challenges of incorporating farming education into schools and making the industry appealing to the younger generation. Modern advancements in agriculture are often overshadowed by outdated perceptions, but Dan stresses the importance of showcasing these innovations to ignite interest. From improving health and safety standards to bettering the earnings and opportunities in farming, we discuss strategies to bridge the generational gap in farming knowledge and make agriculture a compelling career choice.

Technology's role in agriculture is expanding rapidly, but how can we ensure it benefits farmers and attracts new talent? We discuss precision farming, tech innovations, and the critical role of social media in inspiring the next generation of farmers. With insights on government policies, apprenticeships and the impact of popular media like "Clarkson's Farm," Dan outlines the complex, yet necessary, efforts needed to reframe the agricultural industry. Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion that promises to offer a comprehensive look at the future of farming and the multifaceted approaches required to sustain it.

Speaker 1:

Good morning, welcome to Agriculture Live. My name's Rebecca Shields, I'm one of the directors at Agricultural Recruitment Specialists and today I've got Dan Smith, so don't go anywhere. It's going to be a good one you don't want to miss out. It's a great episode. It's all about the next generation in agriculture and farming in the UK. If you've got any questions or comments, please post them in the comments section and we'll get to them when we can. So, dan, would you like to introduce yourself?

Speaker 2:

Morning morning. Yeah, dan Smith, I'm a farmer and consultant down in the Wye Valley, currently farming down in Monmouth, and I guess the exciting thing at the moment is I'm doing a Nuffield looking at the next generation.

Speaker 1:

Brilliant. So how did you get into the agricultural and farming industry and why, Dan?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, good question. So I grew up on farms. My dad was a farm manager on a few estates in the UK and left farming, went away from farming and then came back into it through a love of farming, but because I met a load of people who were kind of practicing a new way of farming or farming slightly more environmentally, and there was a chance to come and manage a farm here which has huge social benefit, which is something that I was very interested in. So I yeah, I returned to it that way and have once again fallen in love with it.

Speaker 1:

So you went to Jamie's farm, didn't you?

Speaker 2:

I did. Yeah, so we. I've have been running a farm down here Jamie's farm, monmouth for the last seven and a half years, so developed the farm and myself quite a bit, I would suggest. And yeah, I've been running this farm since then.

Speaker 1:

Fantastic. So why would you say this is a great industry to be in Dan for people that are considering coming?

Speaker 2:

into it In terms of people coming in af afresh. I think there's a lot of change happening at the moment, um, so I would suggest there's a lot of opportunity. I'm not sure that it's quite recognized how much opportunity there is, but I think that there is. So, um, and I would also suggest there are not many industries that give you quite such a community feel and a kind of a lifestyle feel with your work, which has its, you know, it has its benefits. It also has its downsides maybe sometimes, but actually, um, it's that kind of uh legacy thing that I think is is quite an interesting part of it. And also, you know, you have an impact on, on people's daily lives. You know, three, what do they say? Three times a day, you need a farmer, but you know we can produce good quality food. We can have other public goods, um, environmental, for example, um, and yeah, I think it's, uh, it's, it's, it's one of those industries that we simply can't do without absolutely so.

Speaker 1:

So you're a Nuffield scholar. You're doing a Nuffield scholarship at the minute. Can you just explain for people that don't know what that is and what it entails?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, and Nuffield's a really cool thing. It's there is a UK base, but it's also global and it's selected. So there are scholars selected every year let's say, around 100, 100 globally and around 20 in the UK and it's a network of people who are trying to research their chosen subject and you're supported by the organisation. You're sponsored by various organisations For example, I'm sponsored by McDonald's very kindly organizations for example, I'm sponsored by McDonald's very kindly and it gives you an opportunity to travel the world and to learn and to meet people and to network. For example, I've just done done a month in Canada and I stayed with eight farmers, all from all from the Nuffield network, just went and stayed with them and learned from them and they set me up with other visits and yeah, it's a pretty amazing thing and actually I would suggest anyone who wants to be a bit progressive or even further their leadership or their career or even the sort of farming that they're doing, then I'd really urge people to look into it.

Speaker 1:

So tell us about what you've been doing. You know what's your topic, where have you been, what's it entailed so far?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so my topic title is Generation Regeneration.

Speaker 2:

So what I'm really looking at is whether changing policy and farming practices in the UK but looking at a kind of global model can can get the next generation into farming.

Speaker 2:

So, from a belief that we need more good people, I, because of the work that I do with with with children who come to the farm and we work with Jamie's farm, works about two and a half 3000 children a year and I've done that for for while so I've met lots and lots and lots of really, really good children. They're young people, teenagers, and none of them really consider agriculture as a as a career and I don't. I kind of there's a bit of a missing link there. Um, and also, I think, to see the progression that we need, I really think we need some more diversity in the industry in lots of ways, you know, culturally, sex and all of these things. I think to really see a different mindset that we need to see the progression. We need to shake that up a little bit and that's kind of what I'm trying to work out how we can encourage and develop.

Speaker 2:

So, what have you found out so far? No matter where you are in the world, they seem to be suffering with similar issues. Actually, okay, from developing countries to countries similar to the UK, there is a shortage of really good young people. It doesn't appear to be a very attractive industry, uh, for young people to to get into, because there are plenty of other opportunities and and all and all of these things, um, but equally, I found some people doing really really amazing work. You know, early years education through to university education, through to closing the gap between the environmental sector, which seems very exciting in the farming sector and, uh, people working with technology, and you know all of these things, that that we are, there is opportunity being created, um, and young people interested. It's just how do we really get the young people of the UK to hear that message and to understand it and see the opportunity?

Speaker 1:

It's the burning question at the moment, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

Yes, and I get that everywhere I go, and I'm still waiting for somebody to have a really good answer. I've heard lots of little bits of answers then, and I'm slightly worried that I'm not also going to be the person. But I think, actually, the truth is, is the more, the more we talk about it and the more we explore it, then actually that in itself puts it out there and puts puts ideas in people's heads, and the question, the thing that I keep on coming back to actually is, is who holds the responsibility?

Speaker 1:

you know is is it education?

Speaker 2:

Is it government? Is it recruiters? Is it farmers? Is it like? Where does that responsibility sit and who should be taking the lead on it? And actually quite a lot of what I hear is it's somebody else's problem. It's somebody else's problem but ultimately it's affecting us. It's affecting us all, you know, certainly if we look at the food we want to eat or the kind of environmental part of it.

Speaker 1:

So why do you think from working you know you worked on Jamie's farm why do you think that young people don't consider it unless they're from a farming background?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I've been doing some surveys around this stuff actually and, uh, a lot of it is around preconceived ideas about hard work, lack of money, um, dirty jobs, all of these things. But actually when you can get kids on farm and I think this is the part of the key, for it actually was certainly very early years kids get kids on farm sort of ignite something in them and then continue on with that, showing them opportunity and education. I think there is something in that. But you know, they can't understand things that they don't know anything about and in my opinion there's such a disconnect with food and farming that I can't really expect them to know, whereas we have previously worked with an awful lot of low migrant children from, you know, eritrea, the Congo, vietnam, syria, some quite sort of tough countries. But a lot of those young people still understand there's a kind of more of a close nature with food and farming and the land and I think that they kind of understand it a bit more.

Speaker 1:

Is it because they in?

Speaker 2:

these countries they tend to know somebody who works the land. Yeah, or they would have done themselves, or you know, we're we're very lucky to have the support we have. We a lot of children don't have to grow veg in their gardens, for example, which sounds quite a basic thing, which it did happen before. You know that that it used to be that in a village that the children were farm but harvest time. You know I'm going way back, but actually that that we've completely lost, that it's not even a. It wouldn't even be talked about anymore. Um, and when you consider how little time children are spending outside and and we know about obesity and food and cheap calories and things, you know that there is just such a void of of knowledge there and kind of how these things work that you know farming isn't it's.

Speaker 2:

Even if it's just not on their radar, it would you know it's the closest they would get is a computer game, maybe a sort of farming simulator, or which is just yeah no so how do we get it from?

Speaker 1:

okay, you've got lots of farm parks now that we didn't have years ago, because farms have diversified. Kids love going to the farm parks, seeing the animals you know, riding on the tractors, et cetera, and then they go to school and maybe they'll do a trip.

Speaker 2:

I mean, there are forest schools and there are. There are loads and loads of teachers doing amazing things as well. But actually I would suggest that, because it's generational, a lot of a lot of teachers would be quite disillusioned and farming and kind of how that works, and that you know that's not, it's not a bad thing. Teachers have a lot of time, pressure on their hands to do, to do other things and actually from a lot of stuff I see, sadly a lot of teachers are just firefighting in class just to keep, you know, keep the kids there and keep that, keep them engaged.

Speaker 2:

So some of these things are just a bridge too far and I don't know, yeah, I don't know that if children go to a farm park, are they going because it's a nice day out? In the same way they go to a theme park. You know, to me I'm sure it helps, no doubt at all, but I don't know whether it's closing that gap in terms of, let's say, school leavers or university leavers being like I'm going to do that as a career because I don't know, there's robotics, there's drones, there's really, really good work with soils and rivers and genetics and you know, there's so many things to it that. I just don't think young people know about.

Speaker 1:

to be honest, it's a catch-22, because often people go into careers that their parents have done not always, but you know it is a common thing isn't it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you know that's common thing, isn't it? Yeah? And that that you know that's absolutely true for the farming industry. But equally, we're losing a lot of good people because because they see that the farming industry is difficult and certainly if you look at what's happening in in the uk with sfi, sfs, you know it's there's a real disruption there and it's and it's not for the positive, and you know we need to keep those because they're amazing people, young people within the industry, but we need to keep them. But I'm not necessarily sure we're doing a particularly successful job at that either.

Speaker 1:

So do we need to, you know, make it part of the syllabus in terms of education?

Speaker 2:

make it part of a syllabus in terms of education? Yeah, again, really difficult question, because I think there's an argument for for everybody to do that, whether we need it, for we need, you know, we need good doctors, we need, you know, there are lots of things that that I would. I would suggest so, but it's how you find, it's how you kind of work out who best suits and sadly often farming has been in those scenarios. Farming has been seen as the kind of oh, we'll put those guys over there because they're never going to make a doctor, right, or something in that scenario, which again is just, I just don't think it's applicable. It's not my kind of it's not my way of being, but I think that, yeah, you see, when you start to really get into it it's, it's quite a complicated scenario that. That it's. Yeah, it's difficult to find an answer for I mean, how do we educate?

Speaker 2:

you know the education providers yeah and again, yeah, there's people doing really good work in this as a as a career option.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and there is. You know, there's people doing really good work in that. Suggesting this as a career option, yeah, and there is.

Speaker 2:

You know there's people doing good work in that Leaf, do an amazing job at trying to educate teachers and get them on board and you know lots of them do do it. The thing that I keep coming back to is I think that would follow if farming was much more of an attractive industry. Think that would follow if farming was much more of an attractive industry. You know, there is there is a thing around health and safety and we're a particularly unsafe industry.

Speaker 2:

There is a thing about earnings and um, and those sorts of things and that's a quite difficult area because a lot of farmers it is their own business and you know you're not always 100 sure on on some of that stuff and um, yeah, where what I have really noticed is is in certain sectors that are doing incredibly well, they are that is attractive to to the next generation, where they can see opportunity because of, because of income, um, then that all of a sudden becomes much more attractive. You know, and there there are lots of industries paying an awful lot of money that that may not be as needed, but the world we live in, where we put what we put our value on in terms of consumers, I would suggest is very out of kilter. But that's the world we live in, right.

Speaker 1:

And so we've got that out-of-date image of the farmer with the straw hat. You know, an older guy, probably.

Speaker 2:

You know how do we change this PR and you know all of this that's difficult because actually, you know that is the demographic.

Speaker 2:

You know the average age of the farmer in the uk, between 50 and 60, would generally be a white, a white male.

Speaker 2:

You know, I think there's 15 percent females who have decision making power in in farming businesses is the current stat. You know we need to shift that, but, but we can't be surprised that that's the, that's the go-to image, because, because it's the truth, um, I think, actually, I think we need to be a lot more accepting of people. I think we need to be encouraging of people who show I'm talking farmers here if we're taking that, we have some responsibility in this, which we, in my opinion, we do. You know we need, we need to encourage, we need to actively take some of that responsibility to to engage and to to encourage and and to help. And you know there are people doing mcdonald's, for example, with their stuff at the oxford farming conference. You know people are really, really trying and I think, I think we can, we can be welcoming to people in that it sounds a small thing but we can kind of get on board with it and try and help.

Speaker 1:

I mean you've also got the issue of you know, as I am in recruitment, that people want people with experience yeah, yeah, but it's. How do you get that experience without you know having the experience?

Speaker 2:

yeah, and I think that you know, you'd know much more than me, but I think that's probably indicative of a lot of a lot of industry and I'm not quite sure the intricacies of how how that kind of works.

Speaker 2:

I think that, um, yeah, again, maybe that's a responsibility thing, maybe there's a responsibility there on universities and education to be providing more of the experience that the land managers or the farmers whoever it happens to be people in the industry require. But also, you know, we do have a responsibility to train people up on the job. We do have a responsibility to train people up on the job. We we need to see the opportunity in others, I think, to fill, to fill some of those gaps. Um, and that comes down to good leadership. Now, does it come back to the fact that maybe maybe, as well as providing subsidy for certain things, government should be perhaps writing policy or or in policy, or training people on leadership in the ag sector, or, you know, there's all those so many levels to it that I think we need as an industry, we probably need to bring ourselves up to date on quite a lot of this stuff, because somebody said to me that in the Netherlands they really like value their farmers.

Speaker 2:

You know, they, you know, have lots of lovely pictures everywhere, value their farmers.

Speaker 1:

You know they, you know, have lots of lovely pictures everywhere and you know, could we do more of that.

Speaker 2:

I'm sure, sir. I mean that would be a that would be a good thing to do. I think it's it's difficult to say whether we value, whether we value farmers or not. I think it very depends on demographic of where you live and geographically where you live, and I think you know we've just gone through a massive change of government. I would like to suggest that we will see some, some good stuff in that area, but I, I honestly don't know and that's and that's tough. They're the government, have certain objectives that they have to hit and, sadly, farming, in my opinion, seems to be suffering in that area. Now, again, I think we should be looking for the opportunity in that you know there will be opportunity created by precision farming or from you know so all sorts of things tech mostly that I think could have a real benefit for the industry and for the intake. But again, it's finding the people to do it and, you know, without creating that divide of you're a farmer and we're the big companies providing this.

Speaker 1:

So what are the implications of this? If this doesn't change, going forward?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, again good one. I think we've always sort of got away, or certainly for the last 10, 15 years, maybe probably more. So we've kind of survived it as an industry, and also there are amazing people still working in it. I'm not taking that away at all, but what's the saying? To get us here is not what will get us there. And I think there is this change happening in it and I just the change that we need to see in the timeframe that we have because of policy and because of pressures and all of these things. I'm just not sure we'll achieve it unless we really change some of the stuff we do around this. And also, in my opinion because I think it's all wrapped up in the same thing we need to narrow this gap around, um, food knowledge and how stuff's grown, where stuff comes from, because if you look at the pressures on the nhs, I would suggest that's quite directly related to how much of a lack of understanding we have around, how agriculture works.

Speaker 1:

It's quite scary, like when kids don't know where certain food comes from, isn't it yeah?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I mean, we work with a group of 16 year olds from from kensington in london and they a group of 16 year old boys and they didn't understand that a burger was something that was, that was had to be, that had to be made, had to be created. They just thought a burger was an object that you just had because it comes via app. Now, with that level of divide and that level of knowledge, then if you're asking what happens in the future, then I think we've got serious, serious issues, far beyond recruitment or even what I'm looking at. But that's because, because we're continuing on this sort of divided path yeah do you think?

Speaker 1:

that I mean when I first I'm not from a farming background and I came from a commercial background sales, etc and when I first came into this industry, uh, this space, I know that there wasn't a lot of companies utilizing websites and you know new technology, I know now we've got, you know, some great markets opening up.

Speaker 1:

you know in agri-tech and you know all sorts of things, but because maybe I'm not saying this like you know that all people are like this, but because we had that kind of settled older farmer not too interested in social media et cetera, it didn't really get the word out and let them see what's happening. And now we really need to ramp that up. You know utilizing TikTok and all these things where the young people are to show them what we can do and actually that is.

Speaker 2:

I do see a bit of hope and a bit of opportunity there. You know there's people like tom pemberton and cammy the sheep guy and you know youtube especially, and I I sound really old and say I don't do tiktok and I don't do snapchat, but I know that lots of the young people that we have visit do, and they quite often say um, certainly about cammy or even the hoof gp guy. You know kids are obsessed with that stuff.

Speaker 2:

They love it and it is and it is a window into, into the world and yeah I absolutely think that there's that there's mileage there in terms of capturing their imagination and but then, dan, you've got the problem again of right.

Speaker 1:

The adults, the parents, haven't got any education on this stuff and the kids are going to their parent. I really want to do farming and the parents don't really have enough knowledge no, maybe yeah old-fashioned views of what it is and distract them away from that. It's just a mind field, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm sure that happens and again, is that the kind of responsibility of the government or teachers or education? And I wish I had those answers. But what I would say is that the more we put it out there even if, say, a hundred thousand children watch a video about sheep and five of them who've not from farming decide to be sheep farmers, that's better than it's better than none of them right in in my simplistic view of that. Um, and yeah, maybe we could do more. You know, I'd love to see coach loads of kids going to places like groundswell or to kind of. You know, I feel like we used to do communities, used to do better engagement with, like local events, local shows with farms and and I think we've lost that a little bit and I wonder whether there's a bit of room there as well. Engage back, engaging parents with, with what's happening and you know, the open farm sunday stuff's cool, um I think we all need to take responsibility, don't we in some ways?

Speaker 2:

that's what I'm getting to, but it's hard, you know what more could the government do, dan?

Speaker 1:

what more the government? What more could they do in politicians? Do they have enough knowledge on this sector?

Speaker 2:

I think some do. Yeah, I think some do. I think they have to be very careful about some of the what I would suggest is slightly rash policy coming out, um, and I think actually they need to look at this area a bit more in its own entity. And actually, you know, there there's been a lot of stuff with the, with the new, even the new subsidy systems around, new entrants, and you know, sometimes it's been forgotten, which actually I would suggest would would, would be a would be almost being given that it would be a priority. Um, certainly when we look at our kind of aging workforce and, you know, inheritance tax and things like that, they're all, they are all things that will have, will have an effect.

Speaker 2:

Um, and yeah, I'm sure we're not the only industry. You know we're fighting for space at the kind of careers fairs and at the policy tables, because, because everybody's in, you know builders, for example, or the army, or you know we've got to kind of fight for that space. But I think the one thing we do have up our sleeve is the kind of we get to work outside, we get to be a part of nature, we get to produce food. I think there are so many things going for it. It's just that that link doesn't seem to be quite there.

Speaker 1:

And then you've got the other issue of years ago. There was just like so many careers was like you know you'd be a nurse or you'd do this or that. You know they were the professions or you go and work in history. Now there are so many different career paths, aren't there?

Speaker 2:

yeah, and many of them are very attractive, you know yeah who wouldn't like? To at the age of 18 and crazy amounts of money and go and live in the city and kind of. You know I can understand why. So I guess it's maybe we need to be a bit more formulaic about how we present as an industry and the opportunity that's there, because you know there is, there is lots of opportunity maybe we need more tv shows maybe, maybe, and I've no doubt it's been quite amazing.

Speaker 2:

Actually talking to people globally who watch Clarkson's Farm is crazy. You know, talking to school children in the classroom in Canada and they'd watch Clarkson's Farm.

Speaker 1:

That's crazy.

Speaker 2:

You know I mean that surprised, but it's obviously. It's reaching audiences, um.

Speaker 1:

So maybe we just need to be, maybe we need to look at that and how maybe if we could get you know some more, um you know, young people coming into the industry on these types of shows, I would you know I'd suggest someone like caleb.

Speaker 2:

You know he's yeah he, he and he's doing great work. Anyway, he's trying. But you know, are we supporting him enough? Are we kind of? You know, where does that directive come from? Is it, is it, is it, and you know all of these things. I think they're great. Let's do more and more and more of them and see and see if it helps.

Speaker 1:

But do you think another answer could be producing loads of apprenticeships for farming.

Speaker 2:

So people out there, try it so I've been looking a lot at well in America, internships and apprenticeships, and I think they're great. I think they're a really, really good way of doing it. But again, you've got to find the people to do them.

Speaker 2:

Now we offer when at Jamie's Farm we offer apprenticeship schemes and we've got some really, really good people. But you know, with it's it's hardly any, whereas I would suggest that again it comes back to this responsibility, it's, it's practically hard. Apprenticeships are quite a hard thing to implement. But a lot of dairy farms you imagine if it was an apprentice on pretty much every dairy farm in the uk, it would be. It'd be amazing.

Speaker 2:

for lots of reasons um and potentially achievable for lots of reasons. You know that that would be really cool, but but at the moment there are some but it, but it just doesn't, doesn't happen as much so if there's so much in this, I mean, you could go on and on and get deeper and deeper and deeper.

Speaker 1:

What's the answer? Uh?

Speaker 2:

yeah, as you can tell, I don't really have as of yet I don't really have an answer.

Speaker 2:

I'm not sure. I'm really not sure that I'm going to have, but I don't mind asking questions. I don't mind looking silly while asking questions and I don't mind looking silly while asking questions and I don't mind who I'm asking those questions to, and I've had some really really, really interesting meetings with people who do have the power to kind of create change. And, yeah, I just think the more we talk about it, the more we explore it, the more we question it, then it can only be for the good. Um, but as of answers, yeah, I guess that's part of the Nuffield journey, as they call it. You know, we I started. I actually think I know less now than when, than when I started a year ago. You know, you can kind of I have these kind of ideas about what may work or when may not work, and I've gone off travelling and I've talked to many, many people. I've had hours and hours and hours of recorded conversations about this and, yeah, I think I know less now than I did before.

Speaker 1:

It is a minefield, isn't it let's be honest, absolute minefield. But maybe if everybody did a little bit towards it it would help more.

Speaker 2:

I think that's what it, but I think that's what it boils down to, but again, that's an easy thing to say. We're as as if we're talking about farmers and land managers specifically. We have to be so many things already you know. Yeah, we don't have to. Maybe, maybe being adding recruitment and training and to the to that list is is it is a step too far and that's maybe why we're in the scenario we're in.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean knitting has said um, he thinks that the government should put the agriculture subject in the school curriculum. Um, and then they can enroll themselves in advanced agricultural courses after completing school. Um, and then doing school visits to various agri-tech shows would also help them understand the importance of the subject. Now you've got that, but then you've. I know people that are teachers and you know they have to justify the a minute of their time. You know in terms of what?

Speaker 2:

yeah, being in schools at the moment is is is difficult, even like even budgeting. You know, like finding transport to go on these trips is it's tough. So, again, where does that responsibility come from? Should it be people within the industry? Should it be I don't know the likes of the big chem firms? Should they be sponsoring these and I'm sure they do to some degree, and you know, as I say, I'm sponsored by McDonald's that the industry is recognizing that, that there is an issue and that they have responsibility and they're trying to do good, good work around it.

Speaker 2:

Um, and you know, I'd like to think I could talk in 20 years time and be like, because of that work, some of these gaps have closed. But yeah, education, schools, absolutely early years, learning about food and farming, I would say, is imperative to to ongoing issues in the UK and there'll be so many courses and a level in kind of. You know there are T levels and things like that putting in the prime time and seeing it as a fully respected, proper career. Um, for the most, from from the brightest to those who may not do so well at school, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're not going to be amazing farmers. You know that that's how we need to see it, rather than kind of, oh, these guys can do that subject and it's a kind of a bit of an add-on because not everyone wants to be academic and study.

Speaker 1:

They want to be hands on, don't they? That's the beauty of life. We're not all the same, are we?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely I always say that schools, sadly, in my opinion, they're almost trying to train everybody to be the same person to some degree and that, although there are lots of amazing teachers who do see the value in individuals I'm sure I know there are lots of amazing teachers who do see the value in individuals I'm sure I know there are, but actually it's a really hard thing to manage. You know, and we do. Yeah, we need to kind of capture those individuals who would be amazing at this, and I've seen, I've seen thousands of them, and I'm not sure any of them have really gone on to be farmers. And maybe that's a failing in me and how I communicate, but, um, yeah, yeah excellent, dan.

Speaker 1:

Well, listen, I really appreciate your input on that. But the question I ask everyone I know this is a burning topic, what we've talked about, but what other issues do you think are going to become big deals within the sector?

Speaker 2:

yeah, um, I think. So I've just started some work with uh herefordshire rural hub and they're doing some amazing work, um, trying to support farmers through the kind of environmental issues. Now I'm in the y valley, which the river is famously not great and the farmers are getting under a lot of flack for it and and in some places, rightly so, in lots of places really not fairly, um, but I think that pressure is going to increase. I think it's going to. The government has coming from the top. They're putting pressure on the environmental stuff that's making public more aware.

Speaker 2:

Um, there's a huge piece around perceived animal welfare and that sort of stuff. I think those, those kind of external stresses in terms of public perception and certainly environmental is, is really at the heart of why I'm trying to do what I'm. What I'm doing because we need to see some change there and we need to see progression. Because we need to see some change there and we need to see progression and even if it's not all bad which it absolutely isn't we still need to see change to kind of combat some of the stuff that's just on the horizon, Absolutely Okay.

Speaker 1:

well, Dan, what a great discussion. You've highlighted some great things for us to consider. You know it is a minefield.

Speaker 1:

I know I've said it before, but there's so much that you could go off into on tangents on this subject, um, but it was great to have some insights and some of the nutfield research that you've done, and we wish you the best of luck with completing it and getting the answers. Um. Thank you everyone for watching and listening. Thank you, dan, and keep following us for some great new discussions we've got coming up. If you've got an interesting topic in agriculture or farming that you would like to talk about, please get in contact with me at agricultural recruitment specialist, which is wwwagrirscom. Um. And if you'd like to hear and on these topics and these issues in farming and agriculture, please follow us on various channels such as spotify, youtube, apple podcasts. Just look up agriculture live. Um. So thank you so much for joining us. Dan, would you like to say goodbye?

Speaker 2:

yeah, thank you very much, it was great.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, goodbye thank you, goodbye everyone.