Ep 104 Your New Post Apocalyptic OBSESSION!! Above the Ashes by K M Lister | Author Interview

You’ve heard us scream her praises over and over for the last two years and finally… She's here with a new book and big news to spill! K.M. Lister, the author behind one of our very favorite Romantasy rip-your-heart-out one offs The Shackled Serpent is here to chat with us about her newest release Above the Ashes, a post apocalyptic Romantasy and book one in her Survivors of the Smoke Trilogy. So sit back, get those book orders in, and prep to read with this spoiler free look behind the curtain!

Above the Ashes is a dystopian post apocalyptic story about an FMC who cannot touch any living thing without turning it to ash. We have different realms, found family, a perfectly written slow burn, and a bleak landscape inspired by dystopian settings. Think: Fallout, but in K.M.’s version we might get some romance, a magic system, and some compelling world building with our horrific curse-riddled hellscape! We know you all will eat this up just like we did! 

We know that K.M. is an absolute master at making us feel ALL the feelings, and we can’t wait for you all to jump on this bandwagon. We talk about the writing process, self publishing pros and cons, additional works coming down the pipeline, character inspo, deep themes, and drop two BIG pieces of news. One is disguised as a smash or pass, and the other is an exciting announcement you’ll hear here first! 

Follow K M Lister on Instagram @EarthToKace  | https://www.instagram.com/earthtokace?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

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Penn Cole talks with us about Strong Female Characters, Feminist Themes, and her debut bestselling Spark of the Everflame Series! https://youtu.be/7ukNImyoObw?si=7C3Y9kOUMN4hfcKb

Check the official Follow Up Author Interview with Lindsay Straube of the Split or Swallow Universe all about Between Two Kings! https://youtu.be/OW1cxXTVcTc?si=oOxVIzbIheET_bNE

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Transcript

KM can pull you right into the story immediately. Yes, I am 100% obsessed with dystopian. I'm like the type of person where the whole time I'm watching Fallout, I'm like, Lucy and Ghoul need to kiss. I haven't announced it to anyone and I might as well just announce it here. But

hey everyone, I'm Ashley and I'm Liz and this is the Besties in the Books podcast. Welcome. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Today we have a very special, mostly spoiler-free episode for you. We'll let you know if there's any spoilers. Author interview with none other than the KM listister. We are so very excited to have her here today. Today we're chatting with her about her recently released dystopian fantasy. I've got it right here behind me, Above the Ashes. So, think post-apocalyptic fantasy, slowb burn, found family, all the things we absolutely love and we know that you guys will love them, too. Seriously, so good. Just pause and get to reading. Just kidding. But like, seriously, add it to your TBR. You guys are going to love it. We just know. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, just to reiterate, this episode will be spoilerfree. If we're going to get an into any spoilers for this book or Casey's other book that we'll briefly talk about, The Shackled Serpent, which is also a romanty, um then we'll make sure to let us know. So, stick around to chitchat with us, find out what you'll be getting into um when you get into one of KM's books, and learn a little bit about the author behind the story. But before we get into that, we just want to say thank you so much for being here. Seriously, thank you guys so much for taking time out of your day and your book to come hang out with us and completely devour, get ready, buckle up, get your appetites ready to devour this book. Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe anywhere you like to listen favorite podcast, including YouTube. We are Best in the Books podcast everywhere. And give Casey a follow over on Instagram at Earth to Casey. That's KACE. And find out all the details about everything that's coming up down the pipeline. Yes, we can't wait. Maybe we'll be able to get a little bit of insider info. I don't know. So, before we bring KM on, let's give her a brief introduction. So, KM is the self-published indie author of, as I said before, The Shackled Serpent, a standalone romanty story. Literally ripped mine and Ashley's hearts out. And that's what we love. And you guys, it has been a top of my list multiple times. You guys have heard us talk about it, but we're going to talk about it some more. Read Shackled Serpent. If you haven't yet, trust us. You We've never let you down before. Just add it to your list. Start reading. Well, and honestly, too, it just needs to be said as well because it's like Above the Ashes is book one in a new trilogy. So, if you read this and you're like, "Oh my god, I can't wait. I need more." The Shackled Serpent is Cam's other book that's just waiting for you to read it. So, there's more out there. Yeah. Go do it. Yes. So, go download it, order it. You'll seriously thank us later. So, now she's immersing us in a completely different world. So, Above the Ashes is a dystopian post-apocalyptic story about an FMC who cannot touch any living thing without turning it to ash. So, h what could that mean? Super exciting. And the best part, it's book one in a trilogy trilogy, as I said before. So, The Survivors of the Smoke, book one. Guys, we're screaming at you about this book. It's so darn good, and we cannot wait to hear what KM has coming down the pipeline. So, just a few more things about KM um herself before we bring her on. She is a native Texan who spent her childhood imagining stories and scenarios any chance she got on the playground, in the shower, under the covers when she was supposed to be sleeping, you name it. That's very relatable. She studied communications and media studies at Texas A&M University Corpus Christi and went into the journalism field soon after graduation. Also very relatable. I love that. Um while writing news scripts, her mind always drifted to the endless amounts of stories that filled her heart. Thus, the shackled serpent was born. Yes. So yes, thank thank you so much. Right. We thank you. Yes. As a lover of angst, Casey hopes her stories speak to her readers while bringing out emotions that might be hard to swallow. I will say check, check, check when it comes to that. When she's not writing or reading, she's usually watching her favorite shows and movies or snuggling with her dog OD. So, I personally found KM's work through Sunny uh Sunny Bay PR's um ARC program, and I'm so glad I did because then I was able to tell Ashley like, "You have to read this book. It's so good. And now we're here. So, welcome KM. Hello. Hi. So happy to be here. Thank you for coming on. We're so happy to finally have you. You know, we've been like Instagram friends for so long now and it's so exciting to finally be able to get you on the podcast here. No, I know. It's been like a day in the making. For sure. For sure. Yeah, for sure. For sure. All right. So, we're going to put you right on the spot with a faven fail above the ashes edition. So, has there been any like best or worst parts about the writing process for this book and this book series so far? Yes. Yes to both. So, I'll start with the worst. Uh the worst was pretty much so I had to rewrite this book after developmental edits and like meeting with my writing coach. Um, I had uh the first draft and first drafts aren't great normally. Um, and then I wrote a second draft. I got it to my alpha readers and then I gave it to my dev editor and we just kind of talked things through and I just knew it wasn't the story I wanted to tell. And so I spent about like two months of like no sleep rewriting this book completely like expanding the world building, giving characters motivation. I changed like the tense of the whole book. Um cuz it it was in present tense and now it's in past tense. So it was very stressful. Obviously it was for the better, but that was probably like the worst cuz I was like I am a failure. Like I just didn't like it was so hard. It was so hard. Um so yeah, that's probably the worst. For the best um I would say it's getting to be able to put a lot of myself into these characters. um and really figuring out like the why they do things and like what motivates them because I didn't get to do that with the Shackled Serpent since that is just one point of view through Mave's point of view. Um and Above the Ashes is four uh different points of view. So I really got in the heads of like the whole cast pretty much. And so there's like little bits and pieces of me within each of these characters and that was like one of my favorite things to do while writing. So yeah, super cool. Well, it went in a great direction and we are just loving it. H when I was getting to the different points of views, I'm like, "Oh, especially Liz is eating this up because you guys know Liz loves her multiple POVs." I'm like, "The more the marrier." You know what I mean? I know sometimes people struggle with it. But for me, I'm like, "No, I want to know what every single person in that scene is thinking." And so, I'm obsessed with it. Well, it has such a good balance for this book, too, because it doesn't feel confusing. And of course, you know, it says right at the beginning whose point of view it is, so it's easy to follow and I just love it. Yeah, it was really fun. It was really fun to to write for sure. Yeah. Well, and it's like without getting into any spoilers or anything like that, it's like I think we're dealing with a situation where all of the characters are extremely reserved and so it almost like makes sense that we have to have each one's inner monologue to like know what's going on because they're not willing to share it necessarily with the others. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. They all have their guards up and it's like slowly they have to figure each other out. So yeah, love it. Oh, I eat that up. So, what should people expect if they're thinking about reading Above the Ashes? So, like how would you summarize the plot and some of your favorite tropes without any spoilers? So, I think you summarized it really well, but like it's a deadly curse that destroys the world pretty much. And it leaves, you know, Ellery Foss, who's the female main character, who's a half fay, half witch princess of the underworld, trapped in the upper world who can't touch anything living without it turning to ash because of that curse. Um, I think what people can expect, um, a lot of the same themes and scenarios that you see in kind of like run-of-the-mill post-apocalyptic media like Fallout, Walking Dead, stuff like that. um but with a fantasy flare in a way kind of. Yeah. Um and like one of my favorite parts of those post-apocalyptic media stories are the slow quiet moments like you know when people are sitting around a campfire and like character relationships build and break and things are revealed and stuff like that. That is a lot of this book um because those are my favorite parts of those stories. Um, and so I really focus on that while also kind of setting up for a more epic fantasy plot of book books two and three. Um, and I mean the tropes are great, too. There's obviously Can't Touch, Reluctant Allies, and then one of my favorites is actually the forced proximity because it doesn't really get portrayed in a way that you would think it would. So, I really like that part of it, too. agreed on all levels. I like that like right now you can tell that we're just all the characters are like really like you said kind of working on breaking down the walls so that they can establish these relationships so that we can amp up to like what we're getting to and that's why I'm just like I love that this is a trilogy. That's so exciting. Yeah. I think there there's like so much tension between them cuz there's not a lot of trust there. they're in a world where you can't have trust and so yeah it's it's really interesting to see each character and how they're thinking and who they are and stuff. So yeah. So how would you say that you know this work this new trilogy um is different from your previous work the shackled serpent? I think Above the Ashes is and the trilogy as a whole is very different in almost every single way possible. Um, I think, you know, the world itself, this is like dark and gritty and more of, like I said, typical post-apocalyptic where, you know, Shackled Serpent is, you know, there's like it's like magical fantastical kingdoms, like things that you see more often in fantasy. Um, so that's a big difference. I think the characters are also very different. They have very different motivations, very different um characteristics, and how they act around different people and stuff. Um, I do think like the biggest difference though is like the writing itself. Um, Shackle Serpent was first person present tense with only one point of view. Like I said, um, Above the Ashes is third person, past tense, multiple point of view. So like literally in every aspect is probably like it's the opposite of like what people are used to seeing from me. So um, it was really fun to like experiment and I think I became like a better writer because of that. But I think truly honestly every single thing is different. I I love that though because it's like I love it when authors that you love, you can go back to different works that they do and you're like, "Wow, okay, this is still amazing and I'm getting all the I'm checking all the things off of my list that I love about that author, but I'm getting something new and really exciting." I love that. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. If you read Shackled Serpent, you know KM can pull you right into the story immediately. Like there's no struggle bus, nothing like that. So I would say that's the only similarity in my brain is that oh, I'm just falling right into this world being transported and there's no struggle with it. It is beautiful with that. Thank you. That means the world to me. Thank you. Yeah, it's so nice to be able to pick up a book and just right away get into it. And you do that to perfection. H so good. Thank you. Yeah, I would definitely say like before like now I would suggest obviously both of your books that are out um but before Above the Ashes came out, anytime anyone told me they were in a reading slump and they needed something that would pull them out of it, I was like, "Okay, are you into romanticity?" And they would say yes, I'd be like, "You have to read The Shackled Serpent." Cuz sometimes I feel like, yeah, it takes a while for people to get sucked in. That's not an issue. or people get almost like a little bit daunted like being like, "Oh, am I starting a new series of like 10 books or whatever?" And I'm like, "No, just read this. It's great." And every time people are like, "Oh, thank God. Thank you for telling me about this." So, Mhm. Love that. It just sucks you in. I love that so much. That makes me very happy. It makes me feel like I'm doing something right. So, yes, for sure. For sure. So, with Above the Ashes, how did you come up with that idea? Was there anything in particular that inspired you? Um, I think so. I always knew I wanted to do a post-apocalyptic story just cuz I love those types of stories. Like I I grew up, you know, like I watched like Stephen King's The Stand when I was younger and you know, there's um I watched Walking Dead when it first came out, like and like Liz said, Fallout and like all of these different things that I love, but I knew I always wanted to weave fantasy into it because that's like my like core genre. Um, and so I actually had an well I actually wanted to do post-apocalyptic before I even started writing The Shackle Serpent, but I didn't know how to weave in fantasy with it. So I just kind of put it on the back burner. Um, and then I actually had a dream about one specific scene that's in Above the Ashes. Um, and it kind of just like put everything into place and I like knew how I could weave in the fantasy and that's kind of how everything was born and the characters and like the way they were and acted and talked all like stemmed from this one moment and it wasn't even like it's not even that big of a moment but like it was just like one that I like dreamed of and then I was like oh my gosh here it is I got it kind of thing. So, um, but yeah, I mean, everything else, you know, is kind of pulling from inspiration from like other media like Fallout is a big one with like the wasteland and the sand dunes. Um, Arcala, which is a town they go into, that's also kind of inspired by, you know, um, the town that Lucy goes into in Fallout with like the shootout when the shootout happens and stuff like that. So just like little bits and pieces of like my favorite things about all of my favorite types of movies and stuff and all went in to one. So yeah. Yeah. Awesome. So building off that actually that's a great segue. So why postapocalyptic specifically? So like you know Ashley and I have talked about this a lot over here on the podcast. As a society we tend to be obsessed with everything kind of dystopian. So, we're curious if you are too, and if so, what themes you appreciate and brought in, um, that mirror real life. Um, yes, I am 100% obsessed with dystopian. I grew up on The Hunger Games. Uh, that was like my whole personality in high school. Um, fell in love with that story. And then, like I said, the other types of like zombie movies and stuff I grew up with. Um, I almost put zombies and I was like, "No, that's too much. I can't I can't even like figure that out. Um but yeah, I'm definitely obsessed. Um and I think some of like I think the thing that I like most about those stories and like the themes of them um kind of just boils down from like having hope in like a world that seems hopeless. um and building, you know, the a community through that like small sliver of hope, whether you have it or not, but like it can stem off and maybe spark someone else's hope. And like those are like my favorite types of like character-driven stories. Um so that's why I knew I wanted to do post-apocalyptic. Um but I just really didn't know how to until like the moment was right and then I was like, "Okay, perfect." But yeah, hope when hope doesn't really seem like it's like viable in the world that they live in now. So, yeah. Well, I think for me too, it's like when I watch or read I'm also a huge fan of The Stand. That was like one of my favorite like intros to that kind of genre. Like I feel like lots of times when we read or watch these types of media too, though. It's like I crave like the love story. I crave like some type of like romance to be going on and lots of times it's just not happening. Um, and so I love that like you've found a way to like incorporate that into this too because it's like I'm like the type of person where the whole time I'm watching Fallout I'm like Lucy and Ghoul need to kiss, you know what I mean? And I'm like I that's I totally agree. I do love romance in any type of media that I consume. Um, yeah. Yeah, it's it's kind of like a special thing when you know the world is absolute [ __ ] pretty much. It's like horrendous and you can still find someone that you want to like spend your time with and like love on and stuff. So, I totally agree. And I totally think that Lucy and the Ghoul Should Kiss also. So, I I'm there with I'm there with you. Start a petition. We'll start a petition. Yes, exactly. I haven't watched it yet, but I'm all for whatever you guys say. I support you guys and what you say with that. That's great. Yes, I'm on that team. Yes. Um, all right. So, you talked a little bit about like the struggles with drafting this book and everything. Do you have a rough estimate of how long it took you to write this first book? Yeah. So, I'm I feel like I'm a slower writer than some of my other like author colleagues, but it took me about 8 to nine months to write that first draft. Um and then which definitely was not ready like at all but um and then after that it took me over a year of you know like the rewrite um and all my rounds of edits and beta readers and arc readers and all of that. Um so I would say I usually get like an approximate of like it takes me about 2 years to get it all done. So but like for book two I'm like really hoping to get it done faster for you guys who like want it. and I actually I actually know what I want to do with book two whereas first drafts I'm normally just like writing for the vibes like la kind of thing and now I actually have like an outline. So I think it'll be a little faster for this next time around. So yeah, it's always so interesting because so many authors are it's all different. It's like a range, you know. Some are like, oh, wait, what what is the shortest we've had? Like two months and then we've had like a few year or like a a child of their youth, you know, who came up with this idea, drafted it, and then it wasn't until later in life that they completed it. So, we have like a full range. So, it's always so interesting to see that insight behind the scenes. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. How has the indie publishing experience been so far for you? It's been really great for me. I after my first draft, I shouldn't say first draft, but once The Shackle Serpent was with at least a developmental editor, I kind of I was toying and with traditional published, indie published, I was, you know, researching pros and cons of both. And like the biggest thing that um really pulled me in the indie publishing direction was like the creative control of it and like being able to, you know, write what I wanted to write and not have someone tell me to change things. And it's I mean my editors give me suggestions, but they're always like it's suggestions. Um, so that's been like my highest priority when it comes to my writing is having the control of like what I'm actually writing and what the formatting inside looks like and the cover art and all of that. Um, so in that regard, I think it's been like amazing. Also, not having deadlines is great because it allows me to like if I need to sit with the story and be like, okay, like where do I want to take this? Where do I need to take this? And I'm not like on a time crunch. Um, so it's been it's been really great and especially with Above the Ashes, I kind of gave myself like mental, you know, mental timeline, mental deadlines. Um, but like actually this book was supposed to be released in in my head. I never announced it to anyone, but I wanted it to be released in December of 2025 and I pushed it back like 3 weeks because I knew I needed to push it back and it wasn't like this big detrimental thing because I just had that deadline in my head. It's like I make the deadlines and it's just it's a lot less stressful which I need in my life. So yeah, it's it's been it's been really great for sure. Yeah, it's kind of nice when you can sit back and be like, wait, I make the rules so hey. Exactly. I need a few more weeks to perfect it. That's nice. Yep. Nice freedom in that. Mhm. And speaking of the cover art, both cover arts that we've seen for Above the Ashes and Chocolate Serpent are so beautiful. I'm obsessed. Yeah. Thank you. But yeah, my cover artist, she's amazing. Her name is Reena. Um, I believe her, um, website is Covers by Violet. Um, but she's incredible. And she also does all of my interior art, too. So, my chapter headers, my scene breaks, and my maps. Um, she she does all of it. So, she's incredible. Yeah. Oh, well done. Well done. Seriously, everything's gorgeous, too. Yeah. When I was like um here, I'll just grab it. I don't want to knock down my stuff. Never mind. There's I'll pop it up on the screen. There's a really well there's just a really pretty picture of the two main characters and above the ashes right when you open the book. Um and I was like, "Oh, that's so pretty." And it's just so like it's just black and white, but it stands out so much. And yeah, anyways, kudos to the artist for sure. She's amazing. Yes, definitely. So, okay, we have to know, have you always been a writer like your whole life? Um, I like to say I've always been a storyteller. So like when I was kid like a kid and in middle school I never like put pen to paper or anything, but like my like what you said earlier, I was very much the person who would spend like an hour in the shower running up my parents like water bill because I'm like acting out like a story. I'm acting out a story in the shower or you know I was that person on like the playground who was like, "Okay, you're going to play this character. you're going to play this character and this is how it's going to go kind of thing and I was like directing them pretty much. Um, so I feel like I've always been a storyteller. I didn't start writing until about high school. Um, and that was when I kind of dabbled in short stories um, or just random little scenes. I also dabbled in fanfiction as we all do. So I did write fanfiction back in the day. Um, and then I didn't really get into like novel length writing until honestly the pandemic when I had time to do it. And yeah, and then it's just taken off taken off from there. So that's awesome. Yeah. So, do you have other than because we'll get into this later, other than the trilogy that we're talking about now, um do you have any other works that are unpublished, like maybe stories that you've written or anything like that that's you're like, I don't know if this will see the light of day. I don't have any like finished stories unless you count the short stories I wrote in high school. And I'd have to like find my notebooks from back like they're probably in my parents like attic or something. I don't know. Um but I don't have anything that I've written, but I have a lot of ideas of unpublished stories that I really want to do. Um and I do like to genre bend. So like I have an idea for like a sci-fi romanty. Like so they're still fantasy but sci-fi and just little things like that. like and I also I do have an idea that I've had since writing the shackled serpent and it's related to the shackled serpent. Um I know I liter I haven't stole my heart. I haven't I know. No pressure. Sorry. I know. I know. It's just it's like a nolla idea um that take that takes place afterwards. Oh, okay. So yeah. Um so I have that but I haven't started writing it. I just kind of like have that idea like locked away. That hopefully that was like my plan to like go back to that after the trilogy is done and see if I can make something work, but we'll see. Yeah.

Okay. Uh what again? No pressure. Um I just love this so much. I was like, you know, when you love something, you just want to eat it up. But I also get it. It's okay. Um, so who are some of your favorite authors and books? Do you want to shout anybody out? The floor is yours. Always. Yeah. Always. So, when people ask me my favorite books, I always tend to say the same two. Um, and one is The Gracier by Kim Liot. Um, and the other is um, The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo by Taylor Jenkins Reed, which are It's really funny because neither are fantasy books. Um, the Gracier is more I would say dystopian in a way. Um, kind of think like Handmaid's Tale meets um, Lord of the Flies kind of thing. Like it's really it's a really great book and that's a standalone. Um, but like my favorite fantasy series that I always go back to usually are The Cruel Prince by Holly Black. Um, YA fantasy. Love that trilogy. Um, Once Upon a Broken Heart by Stephanie Garber. Mhm. Um I always say though if you want to read that you should read Caraval before some people don't do it. So I'm like read Carvival. I think it just adds more to Once Upon a Broken Heart. And then obviously I'm a big SJM fan. I my out of the series my favorite is Crescent City. Um yeah, shout out Crescent City. Yeah, doesn't get enough. So good. I know. I know. So those and then I've also been, you know, I've been reading a lot of like fellow indie authors as well and their books are like incredible. Um I have like a whole stack of that I haven't read yet that I'm like just ready to dive into. So any any and all fant like indie author I'm just like I'm going to shout you out no matter what because like what you do is hard. Yeah. I was laughing when um you mentioned the seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo because I I literally just had a client I have um an elderly client who's in her mid 80s who called me at my salon specifically to leave me a voicemail um to or a message to tell me that she read The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo and I need to read it before our next appointment so we could talk about it. A it was so cute. Yeah, it's just I'm not normally into I would call I would call it historical fiction because it goes through a lot of decades, but like I'm not really into fiction. Like I'm in I'm a fantasy writer. I love fantasy. That's what I read. But that book like tore me from the inside out. It like was it was I was sobbing. Like it was just so beautiful and so it was so good. So yes, I highly recommend it. Highly. Well, you know, we love that over here. So that's going higher on the TBR. Yeah. Seriously. Great. Here we go. Okay. She'll be happy. I'll be like, "Okay, we did an author interview. She told me I had to read it, too. So, here we are." I think that's the second person we've had on that has said that book stood out to them. I can't remember who the other person was, but yeah, definitely has come up before. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. It's It's a beautiful story. It's so good. Yeah. So, okay. So, bringing it back around to Above the Ashes. Do you specifically relate to the female main character, Ellery? Is that how you say her name? Ellery. Yes, Ellery. Just making sure. Um, and if so, how do you relate to her? Um, I do relate to her. Um, not in every aspect, but I think the biggest aspect is, um, her fear that she has. I think, you know, we all do have we're afraid of something and I think showing that doesn't make you weak or anything. Um, and I think she really at least like internally and I think after a while she does show that like she is afraid of um a part of who she is and the world she's in and all of that. Um, so I think that is what I relate to the most because it doesn't necessarily mean she's not like one a badass like FMC, but it just kind of in my opinion shows that she is more real in a way. Um, and I think it's she is strong, yes, but she's also like vulnerable and understands that bravery like waxes and waines and it's not like linear. And so I think that is like what I most relate to with her for sure. Yeah, totally. Yeah, that really resonate like resonated with me as I was reading this book too just because I feel like you know obviously as we already said, so no spoilers or anything. She gets this power when the post-apocalyptic event happens that basically makes it to where she can't touch anyone without turning them to ash. And I feel like in this essentially dystopian hellscape that you've created that they're trying to navigate, she's encountering all of these like horrific things and is not just um immediately going to I'm just going to destroy everything with this power that I know I have. It's almost like she's scared of that too because she's trying to figure it out. And I loved that. Yeah, she's really she's like in a she's scared of herself. She's scared of all of the external things happening and herself which kind which causes her in a way to retreat. Um like there are moments when you know when you think of a badass female character a lot of times like they're the people who like run into like scenarios who um to save someone and like they kind of like throw away all their inhibitions and they just run and this and that's so brave to do. where she like and you see in the book there are times when someone could use her help and she doesn't help them because she is so scared like like to the point where she feels paralyzed. Yeah. Um and I think that's in and of itself something that's very human that I think cuz I know for a fact if I was in a fantasy book I would not I would be so scared. I'd be like I don't know what to do. Like I wish I could but I wouldn't. And so I think that's it's kind of refreshing to see a character who is like that, who is still very strong, but isn't the typical strong that you see in fantasy books. For sure. I'm a freezer, you know? Like I'm I'm a freezer. I'm a refrigerator. A freezer. No, but I am like I get like uh and then and then act. But like how long would I freeze if like I saw something like truly horrific of the things that she's seeing in this book? For sure. Oh, yeah. Exactly. Definitely relatable. Mhm. Yeah, definitely. Are there any powerful heroins who inspired you specifically when writing these characters? Um, I think for Ellery, she was very much inspired by Evangelene and Once Upon a Broken Heart because she is also not your typical strong FMC. Um, she has like a softer side which I think you do see within Ellery behind that fear that she has. Um, and I really wanted to make that a part of her. So, like in early drafts, she was actually way more timid and way more soft. And then I kind of sharpened her up just a little bit like for the plot and everything. Um, but I think that's a character that I really kind of honed in on um when writing Ellery. Um, I think for Raina, who's the other FMC, um, I didn't have any characters in mind, but I think I had people in mind like in my life. Um, people who always kind of cool. Yeah. People who always kind of brought like positivity like even in not good situations. Like I love characters like that. And I also kind of channeled that with, you know, like Alta and the Shackled Serpent. Um, who they were very positive no matter what. And so that was more of like real life inspiration than like a character. But for for sure Evangelene for Evan or for Ellery for sure. So yeah. Why do you think we resonate so much with strong but real and flawed women in stories like yours? Um I think we resonate with this type of woman because it is realistic like you said. I mean like strength is not some like phenomenon that only some women have. I think all women are strong in their own ways. Um, and so I think reading FMC's, you know, like the really really strong ones like Jude and Acruel Prince, Bryce, Neesa, all of them, like I think that's very empowering for people. But I also think reading softer FMC's or FMC's who are scared like Ellery and Evangelene, I think that is also very refreshing and inspiring because it's not telling us to like dampen that part of us. Um, so I think being seen through all of those fictional women is like just like the best thing ever. And I think that's why we gravitate towards them because we see like we're not women aren't like onedimensional. We have different sides and different, you know, personalities and that come and go like as we age or go through something. And I think seeing bits and pieces of that through a bunch of different FMC's is probably like really cathartic for a lot of us. Um, and I think that's why I it is so important to show their flaws, to show their strength, to show their weaknesses even though I don't see them as weaknesses. Um, yeah, I think that's probably the most important. Yeah. Well, and something that came across too with me with Eller's character is like she's been in the upper world for five years, right? Um, and so she's scared, but she has had to rise to the occasion on multiple occasions to survive. And so I like that about her character, too, because it's like, you know, as you say, like all women are strong in their own individual ways. And it's like how do we when forced into these or confronting these really tough situations, you know, rise to the occasion to confront them? And I feel like she represents that like super well. Definitely. Definitely. Like even though there are times when she is too scared to do something and she doesn't, there are still other times when she does do something for her to survive. And I think that's strength in and of itself. Like just surviving a lot of the times. Like sometimes you I just want to lay in bed like like and so just like getting up and like you know finding a water source or finding food like that's like strong in and of itself. So yeah for sure. So the flip side of that we have to know a little bit about your MMC. So is Kai an MMC you'd have a crush on? First of all? Yes. 100%. Yes. That's why I created him. All my like MMC's I have crushes on for sure. Yeah, I love that. Um, okay. So, what qualities were important for him to have? So, what qualities did you give him to make him into the kind of MMC that you have a crush on and that we end up with crushes on? So, okay, first of all, I this is a funny story with his looks. I I had what I wanted him to look like in my head. Um, but I literally just gave my character artist like two pictures of my two favorite K-pop biases, like my favorite boys, and I said mesh them together. And she was like, "Got it." So, like looks wise, I'm like, "Yes, you are hot." But quality quality like qualities and his personality. Um, I think what I like the most about him is this like deeprooted um, caring for the people he loves. That's like he would do anything for his pe like his family, his people. And so um, I think that's really attractive like for any guy, you know. And then he also isn't afraid to get his hands dirty to care for like to protect the people he does love. Um, I do think he has like a hero complex a little, which I normally wouldn't gravitate towards, but I think it was kind of important to how he worked and acted like in his overall character arc. Um, so I really liked that because it kind of made him more of a complex character. I also just love that. I love a good simp and he simps like like once he has that realization with Ellery I'm like oh yeah he was it was game over for him and you know like I obviously am not in like a man's head but I would like to think all men simp over us because we deserve to be sed for. So Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We love a guy who what did we say last time? We love a guy who yearns in secret though. It's like we don't want him to yearn like too up in our biz. Yeah. But we love the guy who can yearn. Yes, we love it. Yeah, cuz it it causes so much like good tension, too. It's just like Oh, yeah. So good. Yeah. I won't say any spoilers, but there's this particular scene about 3/4 of the way through, I think, or some around right around there. Um, that definitely got me with the tension for sure. Yeah, I know exactly what senior talk about. 10 out of 10. 10 out of 10. Recommends for sure. Yes. Love it. All right, let's talk themes for a moment. Were there any themes that you put into this book that were extra meaningful to you? Um, yes. So, I think the main one would be community. Um, and the importance of community because when I was writing the first draft of Above the Ashes, I was going through like a really hard time in my personal life and it was like a big change. like literally my life got thrown upside down and I felt very helpless in a way and scared. Um, and I had my community, so my friends and families like just gather around me and lift me up and support me. And that was like one of the biggest things when I was writing. Like I knew like I love a good found family, but this one just felt a little different just because it was with a character who, you know, perhaps didn't see the good within them. Um, and they were able to see it after a while because of their community or makeshift community. And I was going through pretty much that same thing. Um, and so that's like the one that really is the most meaningful to me because it's like a direct mirror of what I was going through in writing it. Um, yeah, that one is like Yeah, it makes me emotional. I love it. Yeah, that's beautiful. I mean, it comes through like very loud and clear for sure. Um, I mean, it leads us into literally our next question. And like why did you decide to write a book that's so heavily influenced by themes of finding your people and purpose and you know that feeling that I think a lot of these characters are struggling with is like am I worthy? Do I belong? You know so yeah. Do you have any more to say about that? I mean, I think it's more just like I I in like in the Shackled Serpent, I put a lot of who I was at the time into that book into Mave mostly, not the other characters. Um, but because this one is um multi-point of view, I got to put little pieces of myself in every character, which I thought was really um fun and interesting to do. Um like and I think while doing that it was very cathartic for me like it's like my therapy pretty pretty much. Yeah. Um but I think like during that time when I was doing that like I found my purpose also like I obviously don't write full-time but like I know my purpose is to tell stories and I didn't during that time I didn't think I had a purpose because I was going through something like very traumatic for me. So, I was just very much like like I don't know if you guys noticed. I know some of my friends like closer friends did, but after the Shackled Serpent came out, I just kind of like fell off and I just kind of did I didn't market it. I didn't post about it because I was going through something and then while writing this book and going through that, I like really did find my purpose and it was like a big revelation for me. And so now I'm like more active and I really want my stories to get out there to potentially help or connect with someone else who might be feeling that same way. Um so yeah, it was just it was this book is like really important to me for that aspect. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Thank you. So let's talk about people in real life. What do people you know in real life think about your books? They are all very supportive and not every Yeah, it's it's really great. Uh because I mean a lot of people don't get to say that. Um so it's I'm feel very blessed about that. And even you know like my dad doesn't really read them. He doesn't really read often but he'll still you know buy the books and he's just so proud of them. And then my friends will read and my grandma she she was like I really want to read your books. And I was like, "Okay, I'll just like block off a few chapters." And and she's like, "Okay." Like they're all Yeah, they're all really really supportive, which I feel very blessed for. Yeah, that's amazing. Shout out to the grandmas out there. I feel like right overall when we ask authors this question, that is like the main like support that we're getting is our awesome grandmas out there. So, we love you guys. She and she always like she'll like tell like her friends like, "Well, like my granddaughter wrote a book. I'm not allowed to read it though until she blocks off these pages and I'm like, "Oh my gosh." But yeah, sometimes they don't mind too much though. They surprise us. I think I I know for a fact she has read spicy stuff, but I think it's cuz it's coming from her granddaughter. She's like Yeah. No, that's not for me. Yeah. Yeah. Fair. So cute. Oh my gosh. So, is there anything else that you We touched about this. We talked about this briefly, but is there anything else that you hope people get? anything else that you hope people gain and get from reading Above the Ashes when they read it? Um, I think like first and foremost, I just want them to enjoy the story and just have a reprieve from the real world, even though this world isn't much better, but it's something different. Um, I think I really hope that they like enjoy it enough and they want to be excited for the next book. I also hope that it leaves them with hope even, you know, with the world that they're in and the circumstances that they're put into. I think just seeing the characters, I think specifically Reena, I think Reena is a big light in this book. Um, and I think and I hope at least that people when they read that they can even if they can't connect to Reena because they aren't Arena, maybe they're an Ellery, maybe they're a Jason or a Kai. I hope that they can like hold on to Reena for when they need it in their real life. I think that's that's like the biggest thing. And I think like when I, you know, talk about my book, I really do talk about community and hope. Like those are like the two big things. So yeah, I love that. So all right, we need to know what's going on with the books that you have coming down the pipeline. What can we expect? Can you give us any little, you know, little teasers or little bits of info or anything like that? Yes. Okay. So, I have a few things. First, I'm working on book two of the trilogy. It's titled Beneath the Ruin. Um, it's I'm already writing it. I think I'm about 15,000 words in. It's going great. Like, so that I'm hoping to have out within at least by the end of 2027. So, that's what I'm hoping for. Don't hold me to that, but that's what I'm hoping for. Like I said, I don't have deadlines. Yeah. And then once that's done, I'll be diving into book three, book three almost immediately, and I have working titles. I just haven't picked on it yet. Um, other than that, I do have I haven't announced it to anyone, and I might as well just announce it here, but I actually wasn't going to announce it, and then I was like, you know what? Might as well. Um, I am working on the audio book for The Shackle Serpent and that's going to come out later this year. What? I'm freaking out. Oh my gosh, that's so exciting. Yeah. Yeah. I have a great narrator lined up. She's amazing. And she's going to start working on it in the summer. So, oh my gosh. I'll be listening to it immediately. Please let us know as soon as that's available. I will. I will for sure. I know. She hasn't even started. I think she's in the process. She's like reading it right now to like take all of her notes and stuff. So yeah, there you go. I haven't announced it, but congrat congratulations. Yeah, thank you for all the audio book nar or audiobook readers out there. No excuses now. No exc my husband. He does only audio books. I'm like now you have to read The Shackled Serpent. Oh my gosh. Yes. Oh, love it. Love it. Yay. Okay. So, um, where can we find Do you have any special editions? Where can we find your books? Maybe any character art, like anything like that that you want to shout out? Yeah. So, no special editions right now, but I want to try to dabble in it a little bit. So, we'll see about that. But I have like So, my website is kmlister.com, and there's a link to my shop. It's just an Etsy shop cuz that's just the easiest for my brain. Um, but that's where you can get like signed paperbacks, hard covers. Um, I need to print out some more character prints. But I have Shackled Serpent character prints. I have Shackle Serpent stickers. I'll have Above the Ashes character prints and stickers as well. Um, so that's where you can find like any and everything that I do have for sale. But Awesome. Yes. Yeah. I was going to say just the original like cuz I have the hard covers of both are like beautiful like we were talking about before with the cover art and everything in their own right. So, go get yourself one, guys. Do it. Yes. Yes. Um, and then do you have any upcoming events or signings or anything like that that we should know about? Right now, no. I just finished my last one that was planned uh this past weekend. Um, but I'm always looking for more like events or signings and stuff. I've I'm kind of focusing this year specifically on like local events just because so I was a part of the cancellation of the big event that happened. Um and thankfully I it was local to me and but because of that I'm very much like nervous again. So, um, yeah, I am like reaching out to more, you know, local bookstores or just bookstores like kind of in Texas in general because I have people all over that I could stay with. Um, but I will always, you know, announce those on like my social media once they come about. So, yeah. Awesome. We'll keep an eye out. So, that means definitely make sure you guys follow her on Instagram again, Earth to Casey. That way you get notified as soon as she knows where she'll be. Yes. Hopefully our paths cross at one of these book events in the future though. I really hope so. I know. We need to. I saw you con and I was like, I wish I was there. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So fun. I mean, we can definitely recommend them. They have it together. Like they're usually, you know, they've had like what five now in the last couple years and they're always everybody's on it. It's all good. So, okay. Perfect. They're great. Awesome. And they're try they seem to be expanding locations, too. So right now California, Florida, they just announced Scotland. I saw that. I was like, how do I get my ship like my books like shipped there? Like literally, that's the only thing. How do we get shipped there? How do we get there? Exactly. Put me in a suitcase. Let's go. Um, all right. So, let's do a smasher pass. So, we're posing this to KM. Smash or pass the king of the upper world.

Smash. A hesitant smash. A hesitant smash. Interesting. But a smash. Yeah. Mhm. I knew this might be a little bit of a harder one to answer. That's why I wanted to ask it. So that's exciting. See where that goes. Yep. I mean, the reason why I wanted to ask KM about it is because I'm still undecided. Um, okay. I lean I lean to Smash because we love a daddy, right? Like, let's Yes. Um, but I don't have all the applicable information at this time. So, therefore, yes, it's still open-ended. Yes. You learn more about what happened in the second book. Yes. I figured there's a little teaser for you guys. Yeah. A little tease. A little tease. So excited. Is there anything else that you want to touch on for Above the Ashes today? I don't I don't think so. I mean, I think I'm just really excited for the whole story, like as a whole, the whole trilogy. Um, I will say this first book really feels more more post-apocalyptic than anything. Books two and three are going to feel more high fantasy. Um, okay. And I think the first book sets that up pretty nicely. Um, but you I mean I'm just excited for people to read this first book and hopefully fall in love with the characters and then also like just like can't wait for the second book because second book I mean there's there's going to be like lore expanding. You're going to get more like world building in there. There's going to be new characters. like so it's going to really feel like I would say more so like the shackled serpent when it comes to the settings and things that are being revealed and stuff. Um so I'm just really excited for people to get to know these characters and come along with me on the journey on this crazy post-apocalyptic cursefilled journey. Love it. Yay. Oh, we love it. Oh my goodness. And like I said, you do such a beautiful job instantly pulling us into this world or these worlds that you're creating. And I cannot wait for you guys to go read it. Read it all. DM us. Let us know how obsessed you are because I know you will be. Yeah. If you read The Shackled Serpent, collect your tears and send us send them to us. Envelope. Send them to me, too, because that's what drives me. I guess. Yes. It's what gets the people going. Exactly. Exactly. Well, you guys, thank you so much for joining us today in this conversation with Cam Listister. Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe anywhere you'd like to list your favorite podcast, including YouTube, Besties in the Books podcast everywhere, Instagram, Tik Tok. Make sure you're following KM over at Instagram at Earth to Casey. Go check out her shop, the beautiful, beautiful editions, and get your character art, too. So, well done. And thank you so much for coming on today, Cam. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yay. Can't wait to chat with you again. Maybe in some upcoming books. Yes. Yes, please. I'm more than happy. More than happy. Well, you guys, we will see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday. Bye. Bye.