Kelley Marshall Shows How Truckers Can Save Lives By Seeing The Signs

A single glance can change a life.
That idea drives our powerful conversation with Kelley Marshall, survivor leader and training specialist with Truckers Against Trafficking. Kelley turns a painful past into practical guidance, breaking down how traffickers groom their targets through attention, financial “help,” and manufactured debt—and why so many victims may appear compliant while living under coercive control. Her story brings hard truth to the surface: demand fuels exploitation.

We move beyond headlines to the everyday places where trafficking hides in plain sight—truck stops, schools, restaurants, farms, and construction sites. Kelley explains the red flags drivers can notice without confrontation, including coerced companions, scripted answers, lack of ID or money, and controlling “partners.” Most importantly, she shares exactly what to do next: observe, document vehicle details and locations, and make the call. Law enforcement would rather investigate a false alarm than miss a chance to help someone in danger.

Kelley also opens up about healing. She shares how shame and silence gave way to recovery through faith, community, and reflective writing—work that led to her book I’ve Got a Secret, which includes a biblically based curriculum and journaling tools for survivors. We challenge myths around legalizing prostitution, discuss the growing reality of labor trafficking, and talk about purpose at work—how building people up reduces vulnerability and strengthens communities. Whether you drive for a living or simply care about human dignity, this episode equips you to see more clearly, understand more deeply, and act with confidence.

Key Takeaways

✅ Trafficking often begins with grooming, not force—attention, money, and debt are common tools of control
 ✅ Victims may appear “willing” due to fear, manipulation, or survival tactics
 ✅ Trafficking hides in everyday places, not just on the news
 ✅ Drivers can spot red flags safely without confronting anyone
 ✅ Document details and report—law enforcement prefers false alarms over missed opportunities
 ✅ Demand drives exploitation; addressing buyers matters
 ✅ Healing is possible through community, faith, and intentional recovery work
 ✅ Purpose-driven workplaces and communities reduce vulnerability

If this conversation moved you, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review. Your voice helps more drivers get trained—and more lives protected.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Purpose Beyond Freight
• 2:23 Kelly’s Early Vulnerabilities
• 6:43 Grooming Tactics Explained
• 11:23 Who Traffickers Target
• 14:38 Book, Healing, And Faith
• 20:13 Demand And Legalization Debate
• 24:33 What We Miss And Why It Matters
• 28:53 Truckers As First Responders
• 33:43 Training, Red Flags, And TAT’s Role
• 39:03 Labor Trafficking Awareness
• 42:23 Purpose, Greed, And Building People
• 46:53 Misconceptions And Long Healing
• 51:23 Continuous Recovery And PTSD

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:24

Welcome back to Das Delivered, a truck show that helps many people, uh, not just with trucks, but also many other areas in life as well. I'm your host, Trucking Ray, and today we're going to uh dive into deep something powerful, personal, and that we're talking with someone whose life story is both humble and inspiring for everyone. And this is a moment where trucking meets purpose well beyond freight and logistics. I've been looking forward to this conversation, and it's real, raw, and it has something that you will remember outside of the road and counts in many ways, most of us can't even imagine. So, my guest today is Kelly Marshall. Uh, she's with Truckers Against Trafficking, and uh, she is a survivor herself, and we can't wait to hear her story. Kelly, it's so nice to have you on the show. How are you?

SPEAKER_02: 1:13

It's good to be here.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15

Very nice. So happy to have you here to tell your story. I mean, being a survivor of human trafficking yourself, and also taking the time to give back and as a training specialist and survivor leader with Truckers Against Trafficking TAP for short. Your story is one of survival, resilience, and uh transformation. Uh, it directly powers the mission that you're dedicated to. So tell us about yourself and how you got started on this journey of sharing your story.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43

Well, I am I'm originally from Miami, now in Memphis, Tennessee. And when I originally wrote my book, I was starting to speak out on this because that has been a really big part of my healing process. Being able to share and to educate, letting people know that this is a real thing. This, you know, this isn't something that's happening in a third world country, it's not, it's right here in our backyards. And it's important for people to understand what a victim goes through. And so with the love and the support of so many of my friends, my family, people with tat, I love tat. So it's just become my life mission. And because if if I can't share, then how is anybody gonna know what to look for?

SPEAKER_02: 2:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 2:47

And how does anybody know that you know there's victims out there, they need to know that there's hope, that there is hope in coming out of that life into having such a beautiful life?

SPEAKER_01: 3:00

Yeah, yeah. As a survivor yourself, your perspective is is huge. I mean, you think about when you look back at the conditions in your life before trafficking was a topic, what were some of the key things that made you a target, not just emotionally, but practically? Can you share that with us?

SPEAKER_00: 3:19

Well, growing up, my dad was extremely abusive. And so I had very low self-esteem. He was physically abusive, emotionally abusive, mentally abusive, and then eventually he was sexually abusive. And so it wasn't it wasn't my straight A's that made him happy. It wasn't the fact that I cooked and cleaned every day that made him happy. It was only when he was sexually abusing me that he was happy with me. And so I equated sex with love. And and so that was kind of my pattern. And I craved that love and attention so much that I was just this easy target for traffickers. Because at the time when I got groomed, when I was groomed by a trafficker, I was a single mom. I had no income or little income coming in, I had just lost my apartment and you know, I was trying to get jobs here or there. And due to the lack of self-esteem and the massive trauma that I had already endured with my dad, I was pretty, I was a pretty easy target. So when he walked by me and he called me beautiful, I was like, whoa, somebody actually called me beautiful. Okay, and so that is how that started, you know, and for a few weeks we hung out and then we, you know, he wanted to know all about me. He know he wanted to know everything about me, and nobody ever cared about me. I was invisible, and so with him showing me that much attention, I just fell in hook, line, and sinker. And and once he told me what he was, I was like, no, I don't want to do that. It doesn't even sound, you know, that's not and he's like, Well, you give it away for free, so you might as well get paid for it. And because he had been helping me with my rent, because he had been helping with my daughter's basic needs, he had said to me, he said, Well, what kind of mother would you be if you can't even take care of your daughter's basic needs? And at that point, I knew I had I couldn't go to my family. I had nowhere else to go, and I felt like I owed him. And so that is how things started.

SPEAKER_01: 6:03

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, many people aren't aware of those tactics that are used, and they think that you know, and someone's just being nice and it went too far. But the thoughts of that individual was well before you guys met that their intentions were to find someone that would fit into that mole. That's what it seems like to me.

SPEAKER_00: 6:24

It is, that's exactly. Traffickers are very smart, they know what to look for, they know the vulnerabilities that they're seeking. It's not just this snatch and grab. They take the time to get to know a person, get that person, you know, figure out what their vulnerabilities are, and they play off of those. They exploit those vulnerabilities. And it can be something as someone just is looking for love, someone who's looking to get out of poverty, somebody who needs a mom figure, a dad figure, because you know, not just males are traffickers, traffickers can be anybody, and I and I don't think people realize that.

SPEAKER_01: 7:15

What what are some other individuals that you would warn people about or bring bring attention to? Who would you say that are these type of people? I mean, I think of the entertainment industry when you're talking and think about some of these documentaries you watch on TV. I feel like that could be at a higher level, but hey man, the the things that Diddy, Sean Combs, you know, here's a person that's supposed to be respected, and then you hear the remarks from the jurors saying that, oh, that must have been just a love relationship. I'm like, I think it was uh well before those individuals met that some of that was being done. And I think about even like with trucking, down to that level and an occupational level, you know, you get these people that need help, and then they're offered an opportunity, and and to get them to get it taken away, uh they're exploited with their going out there doing things that you're violating the hours of service, doing all these things for to make a profit for the company. And then there's dangerous roadways, you know. You know, people out there causing accidents that probably shouldn't be driving. So even on an occupational level, entertainment level, who would you bring highlights to? Those are my two that I I see on a day-to-day basis trucking.

SPEAKER_00: 8:34

I think for me, I would put it on an even deeper level. Think about our youth, those that are in the foster care system, they're an easy target. People that come from abusive households, you know, people that are just down on their luck. Anybody can become a trafficking victim given the right circumstances. Well, or bad circumstances, but there are so many different ways. I mean, even those who are mentally challenged, you know, this person comes in their life, they become their friend. And next thing you know, they are being trafficked. So, you know, yes, we can look at the high level, but most of it is well, I can't say most of it, but a lot of it is going to be at a normal level, someone in poverty, someone with low self-esteem, someone who has some kind of vulnerability. And I think Tat does a wonderful job of highlighting the red flags, highlighting these vulnerabilities in all of our trainings, and you know, being able to recognize the signs of someone who is being trafficked.

SPEAKER_01: 10:00

Right. Well, you I got your book, and I think it's a great story, a great read for many out there. And it's titled Sh I've Got a Secret. And I found it on Amazon. I'll put the link on there. Uh, I think you tell a great story on there as well. It was a real sad moment when I read about how you said uh I think your mom attempted to jump off a high, was it a dresser? Yes, because she didn't want to carry through with the pregnancy, or at least that's what he told you. Um yeah, tell us about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00: 10:36

Like I said, my dad was very controlling, he was abusive, and that was why my mom left him. But you know, I I look back now at hearing that again of you know, my mom trying to get rid of me, but I know how much my mom loved me. So I don't know if it was because she didn't want to bring a child into the world knowing who the dad was, knowing how horrible he was, or I I don't know. I I honestly don't know because I never heard it from my own.

SPEAKER_01: 11:18

That's what I was wondering.

SPEAKER_00: 11:19

I never wanted to bring it up because I didn't want to hurt her feelings, okay, yeah, and so I never did, right?

SPEAKER_01: 11:28

Yeah, yeah, that uh yeah, just to tell your your daughter a story like that in itself is that's just mind-boggling to figure out how to you what what was your purpose of doing that, you know. So, but again, it's probably for control, and that's what a lot of these individuals like that are out there. I think they love having control over another human, yes, like a like a god complex, and that's something that they don't have any right to.

SPEAKER_00: 11:58

No, and I agree, I agree with that, and you know, if you think about it, trafficking is a business. We have the supplier, the product, and the demand. And so the trafficker, obviously, he provides the product, which is the victim, and then we have the demand, which are the people that are purchasing. And you know, to anyone that that would listen to this, if you are purchasing commercial sex, keep in mind that person doesn't want to be there, no matter how they're acting in front of you, no matter how they're like, oh baby, yes, this and that. That is not the case. And if we really want to get deeper into it, you're paying to rape somebody. And that is the bottom line. It is paid rape. And if we didn't have the demand, we wouldn't have trafficking, but there's such a high demand for it, and and you would be surprised, some of the buyers are worse than the traffickers, they feel like they've paid money, they've purchased this person for whatever amount of time, and they can do what they want, they can treat them the way they want. So, you know, you we're thinking about all sides here.

unknown: 13:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:32

And you know, what would you say to politicians that say they should legalize it, prostitution and things like that? What are your thoughts when you hear things like that?

SPEAKER_00: 13:43

Personally, I think it's a big mistake because then there's going to be more and more trafficking because it is made, if it is made legal, there would be more, and then there would be no consequences for the trafficker or the buyer. And then they would continue to arrest the prostituted person, and so and everybody else gets away with what they're doing, and so that is a really big uh thing personally for me. Is why would you want to legalize this?

SPEAKER_01: 14:23

Yeah, they they claim that the demand will go down because they're creating a marketplace, it's the same mentality with drugs. Uh, if it was legalized, they feel like then it won't be much of a demand. And you know, they're so wrong. That's even hard to repeat it. Yeah, that is yeah, that's what they're saying. That's uh that is the message that they're putting out there for people to hear. And you being a survivor, I think you have every right to speak on it. Let your voice be heard when things like that are coming up. So appreciate you telling us what you thought. What you think.

SPEAKER_00: 15:01

Yeah, I think it would just exasperbate, exasperbate it even more. So this would not be a good thing, this would not bring the demand down. I think it would actually cause more demand and more trafficking, and then more victims and no help for the victims.

SPEAKER_01: 15:22

So looking back, so often survivors talk about looking back, hindsight. That's a question that many people in your audience may think about what did you not see at the time that you wish someone had told you? Something that wasn't as obviously right in front of you, but it truly matters. What would you say?

SPEAKER_00: 15:44

Are you talking about during my time?

SPEAKER_01: 15:47

I guess it's yeah, you know, the 2020 hindsight that people always say, if I just at new, or if I had an idea, or if someone had helped me, and I was thinking maybe you could speak on that so that people can say, hey, you know, yeah, now I now I can see since I listened to this podcast and hearing that from Kelly, that maybe I'm aware now, you know, it helps helps me to not be susceptible to the trap. What would you say?

SPEAKER_00: 16:16

I think one of the biggest things that I would say is for those that have been maybe brought up in abusive situations, especially as a kid, it wasn't your fault. You are still worthy. You are more than anyone has said you are. Because I find a lot of it is a lack of self-esteem and a lack of self-love. If I had been able to love myself and know that what my dad did wasn't my fault, maybe things would have been different. Maybe if my school bus driver could have seen the bruises and the different demeanor and how my personality had changed and they knew about human trafficking, maybe I wouldn't have gone down this road. Maybe if while I was at school, my teachers would have noticed, you know, something was very wrong. But I think for myself, if I if if somebody would have been able to say, you are special, you are worthy, what your dad did to you is wrong, and it's not your fault. And so I think for me, that would be my biggest thing is reassuring my younger self that you know what, it wasn't my fault, it was just he was brought up in a sick way, and so yeah, he didn't know how to be a dad.

SPEAKER_01: 18:06

Yeah, I was reading about the let's see, he was putting a lot of what was it, orphanages, orphanages, and yes, they do, yeah. So it was the incidents where he was sexually abused, yes. So you know, when I'm out there and I'm driving truck, I'm thinking about getting home, thinking about being safe, thinking about yeah, I mean, I'm thinking about myself and my family, and there are those moments where I have to stop and think about where I'm at presently and realize that I have a moral obligation to be a guardian of the road or wherever. I know I think I was at a truck stop and I saw a young lady crying. And first thing you want to say is that's none of my business, or you know, like what's going on. But afterwards, you know, the the clerk and and all, you know, we could we all made eye contact, and but yeah, they called the police and because it was obvious that they were arguing, the couple, she was with another man, you know, he was invisible. You know, I could see her crying, but I didn't who was she with, you know. I don't know. It was my mind just isn't that in that gear of yeah, I don't know what the situation is. But when I stopped thinking about me and I stopped shopping because I was in there as an as a newer store, and I was excited about the new truck stop and everything, right? But when I took a moment to realize what was going on around me, I was able to be more aware of my situation and to be able to help be there for an individual I had no clue about. I never met the person. So the more I practice that and exercise that, like you mentioned, the bus driver, the more we try to bring it to attention, not for others, but also for ourselves mentally, we can be an effective tool to help those individuals in their time of need and feel like we are making a difference versus saying, Oh, I'm I'm bothering someone, you know. So yeah, you're right. If someone would have done more that would, even it's just a little bit, you know, just you know, the question what's going on here? You know, that starts the conversation versus just going. About your own well selfish needs, you know, even if they are just trying to get home, you gotta stop thinking about just yourself, you know. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 20:34

Well, I I feel like truckers have this unique ability to be able to help because truckers are the eyes and the ears of the road. Y'all see things that we don't notice, we don't see, and you're at these truck stops, you are on the road, and you you can see above everything else, everything that's going on. And you know, with the TAT training, being able to be more vigilant on what to look for, and taking that time, and so many truckers I'm so grateful for because y'all have taken the time, you know, after taking the training, the TAT training, you learned about human trafficking, you learned about the size, the signs, and made that call. Yeah, and I think one of the biggest things is people are afraid. Well, what if this isn't what I think it is? What if I'm wrong? Well, I think law enforcement, and I've I've talked to many, many law enforcement, done law enforcement trainings, and they would rather you be wrong than not make the call because you never know whose life you're gonna save. And you know, I say this a lot. Instead of judging those that are being prostituted, ask how they got, ask yourself, how did they get there? I mean, nobody wakes up and says, Wow, it's my life's dream to sell my body for someone else to make money, you know what I mean? And so, you know, there's so much judgment there, but just take that time to ask yourself, hmm, I wonder how she got here and make that call. You know, I wouldn't say go approach the trafficker, please don't do that. That's dangerous. But you can you can get as much information about the people that you're seeing. You may be seeing the trafficker, you may be seeing his vehicle, get the license plate, you know, get as much information as you can and make that call. And even if you're wrong, you still did something instead of not doing anything at all. And I think as a society, we tend to bury our heads in the sand because we don't want to deal with something hard.

SPEAKER_01: 23:18

Nice, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Very good words to speak there. I mean, think about your your your life and how you've got to where you are in your healing process. Did you ever reach a moment where you thought this is not where my life ends? What what changed that for you as a person, the moment, or well, was there some insight that you have so you can share?

SPEAKER_00: 23:45

It took me, well, first of all, it took me a really long time. I lived with the shame and guilt of that lifestyle that I thought I chose until I found out that I was a victim. And from then, you know, I mean, I had already been clean off of drugs, and then, you know, just for me, for my healing process, it has been a spiritual process. You know, my relationship with God has been so crucial to my healing, and I mean, he has put such amazing people in my life to help me grow and to build this life that I have now. It took me six years to write that book, by the way.

SPEAKER_01: 24:41

Really? Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00: 24:43

It was hard, it was hard.

SPEAKER_01: 24:47

It's something about writing down your memories and knowing that there's someone out there that may not read it the way you want them to read it, or they just don't understand. I mean, so many ways it can go when someone has those words and they're looking at it. And I mean, you you put yourself out there, you're vulnerable to do that, and I applaud that. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 25:08

Thank you. But it it did help a lot in my healing journey because I was able to see as I was writing, like Kelly, what were you thinking?

SPEAKER_01: 25:19

Is there a story behind the cover too?

SPEAKER_00: 25:23

Yes, I like it. There is because that the side with the bruising and the tears is who I used to be, and the other side is who I am now. And see, because I kept that part of my life a secret for so many years, that's why it's called I've got a secret.

SPEAKER_01: 25:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:49

And so, you know, it was letting it go, it was releasing it, it was okay, I'm gonna put it out there. But you know, I'm sure you've seen already, it's more than just my story. In the back of the book, there are pages where if someone has been through any type of trauma, there it's it's biblically based. It is a curriculum that I created and it's meant for people to heal. And so that's why I made it that way, because I didn't want it to be just another survivor book. I wanted it to have, I I want, you know, people want to know, okay, I've been through this, I've been through this. Okay, how did you heal? What was your process? And so that was the biggest push for my book.

SPEAKER_01: 26:51

Who did you have help or you did it all by yourself?

SPEAKER_00: 26:55

Um did most of it by myself. I did have some help with editing and things like that, but as far as the creating of the curriculum, I did that.

SPEAKER_01: 27:05

That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, because the curriculum part, yeah, I did see that in the workbook, kind of like a workshop that you can make notes like a journal. I think that's great for people to exercise their mind in a healthy way by writing something down. You can refer back to it. I mean, journaling in itself, that just alone can help healing. So adding that to the book is is amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 27:29

Oh, yeah, that that is definitely true. Doing a lot of writing and like get those thoughts out, you know, do what you need to do, you know, to heal, because that is what's gonna break this cycle. And for some people, trafficking is a generational thing, and then we have families, the familial trafficking, where families are trafficking their own kids, and so you know, we have to think about all these things, and these kids are going to school every day, and and I think Tat does a wonderful job of I think we do an amazing job at getting these materials out for the trucking industry, for the school transportation, motor coach. I mean, there's just we have a plethora of information and we give it out for free, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 28:35

Yeah, a lot of great people there to get that energy, to get that vibe to continue as to be a force for good. Let's tell us about that. Being a survivor leadership, you're helping shape how TAT trains others. How does your role influence the way a training is structured, especially now that TAT's reach a national and includes more industries, not just trucking? How does your role and your experience help TAT?

SPEAKER_00: 29:03

So, what I do is as a training specialist, now I do have to say Tat already had that amazing training before me. So, but my role is important because when I go around the country and I train law enforcement or we do coalition builds, I'm coming from the survivor's perspective, but not uh it's not just telling my story, it is a training because I also include, you know, red flags to look for, you know, I share some of my story. Okay, what red flag indicators did you hear? And training points. It's important for people in whatever industry they're in or government agency to know some training points, some red flag indicators, and that is what I bring to the table. I I bring that in real life, you know. This isn't just from some reading I did, this was my life, and so who better to do that training than someone who has lived experience? And so with TAT, I've I've been able to just grow so much in my presenting and in just so many areas of my life. And and and I do have to say that Tat is amazing. Everybody on staff has such a fuel and a passion about human trafficking and and how can we end this or how can we keep people educated? And I am just truly blessed. This is actually my dream job. Um it is my dream job, and I can't think of a better organization to work for. I honestly can't.

SPEAKER_01: 31:11

That's great. Yeah, yeah, but that would probably be my dream job too. That'd be awesome. Yeah, that's great. Wow. Um, yeah, Tat has done so many great things. I can't thank him enough. Really appreciate you guys taking the time to speak on our on our show and bring that awareness. There's so many things that we can do as a group. I look at some of the journalists that hop up with trafficking documentaries, and some of them were talking about how people are being scammed from rehab facilities or just trafficked for for business purposes, you know, to make a profit. I mean, it's it doesn't always have to be sexually that people are are being trafficked, and they're they're trying to they're claiming that it's continuing to rise, it's not going away.

SPEAKER_00: 32:00

No, it isn't.

SPEAKER_01: 32:01

The sad part is I see all the efforts from Tat, and then I and I see these documentaries where the bad guys are still making momentum. I'm like, wow, it is wish it would end, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 32:15

Well, you know, there it's you're right in saying that it isn't just sex trafficking, it's labor trafficking as well. In agriculture or in restaurants, construction sites. There is just such a plethora of information that we continue to learn about where labor trafficking is concerned. And we have a couple of staff members that have worked really hard on research, and they have done an amazing job of putting together some labor trafficking training and you know, just things that I wouldn't have thought of. And I think our our corporate video also gives a real life scenario. We have actors that we went ahead and hired to make this video of they they show one scene of someone being sex trafficked, and and one scene is of labor trafficking. And it just give it just kind of wakes you up to, oh yeah, I didn't think about that. Huh, maybe I have seen something and I just haven't said anything. So the creativity on our team, it is just amazing. So yeah, Tat, we do so much to just try to make sure that we can cover as much as we possibly can in the transportation industry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 33:55

I mean, just thinking on the level you said spiritually, I like my spirituality as well. So the common denominator that I see a lot of times is that greed is fueling a lot of this.

SPEAKER_00: 34:08

It is.

SPEAKER_01: 34:09

You know, if you take away a person's purpose, make them feel worthless, then you have an opportunity to exploit that person. And I'm not saying that that's the intention of every CEO company or but we have to be careful that we're not creating a more of a void when we hear things like self-driving trucks, uh, we hear about automation. We may think it's exciting with the technology and that the change that can come about. But what is the real purpose of it? Is it for greed? Are we really making things better for humans? Or are we creating a void where humans will feel worthless? So I feel like bringing awareness to that. Uh, me personally, I guess you know, a lot of reasons why I started this podcast to help people see that they can make it in trucking, that they can have a career, they can take care of their families. They don't have to feel like they're the scum of the earth, that they have a purpose. Like you said, truckers and bus drivers and professionals out there bring awareness for helping people that are victims. But if we keep creating voids, it becomes like a whack-a-mo. Um, we got to try to build people up and make people feel like they are worth something and that they have a chance to make a life for themselves. What would you say on a topic like that spiritually?

SPEAKER_00: 35:30

Spiritually, yes. You know, it's hard when you feel empty and you feel like you don't have a purpose. And and if you don't have people in your life that are telling you that yes, you are worthy, yes, you do have a purpose, yes, you know, there's nothing that you can't do. And sadly, that's not happening a lot in our society, and it is about the greed, and that's why there's traffickers, and you know, as long as they're so greedy, they don't care about human beings that they're selling. I mean it's really, really difficult, and so on a spiritual aspect, you know, we need to start building people up. We need to let people know that what they do matters, yes, and especially our youth, our youth, I think they really, really struggle, and they need people in their lives that are there to say, you know what, what is it that you want to do? Well, you can do whatever, whatever you you dream to do, you can do it, you can strive toward it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 37:00

Yes, if you don't eat you know, and if you don't get to that goal, you become a better person. Uh, it's not a failure. No, you're gonna grow along the way, and you may fall into something that you never thought you would fall into, and it could be an actual a good thing. Like, I didn't you know, I didn't think I would be a a podcaster, but here I am.

SPEAKER_00: 37:23

Yeah, and you do such an amazing job, too.

SPEAKER_01: 37:27

Oh, really? Thank you. Uh that's a huge compliment coming from you. Thank you so much. Uh, and then also, too, reading your book. Yeah, it's it's a good way for me to rework my mind as a man, as a father, the responsibility that we have, you know, masculinity can sometimes look bad in the wrong hands. A lot of men, you know, I don't I can't speak for every man, but masculinity isn't taught. There's no school course of how to be a man and to do things in a way that helps society versus being destructive. It's not saying that being masculine is bad, neither is being feminine bad, you know, but what do we do with those things? You know, how do we as a person use that to be a force for good? And you know, some of these guys are learning things and they're talking amongst each other. Is it gonna be something that's gonna promote something healthy and good? We have to really soul search. And reading your book and things like that, you can really soul search yourself and look at what's going on inside of me here. Am I being used like a pawn or am I being making decisions that we're gonna help society, help, help women, help men, young ones to be successful? And that's kind of where I want to be when it's all said and done. So yeah, thank you for getting that out there. Six years of hard work, and uh it's in my hands now. So what do we do with it? Thank you. I hope more people get to read your book, to hear your message. I think you are a force for good. Uh hearing about it, I'm very proud that you have done what you've done with your life, turning things around. You may have already been in the in the right direction. Just people kept trying to deter you, kept trying to pull you away from where you probably were gonna end up here anyway. So, because you're a fighter.

SPEAKER_00: 39:23

Yes, uh, I'm definitely a fighter, and you know, I am grateful, especially to the TAT team. I do have to say, they've also helped me grow over the last few years, and it has been amazing. It's been an amazing journey. I've learned so much about myself and what my strengths are, what my weaknesses are, what what am I good at? What am I not good at? And I think if more people learn that, you know, okay, so where are my strengths? You know, what am I not so strong in? Do I want to get stronger in that to gain to gain more? Or do I want to work on what I'm already strong at? You know, whatever, you know, what I'm good at. Now, what is the gift that I have that I can give to others? And If we think about that, it just changes our thinking, it changes our behaviors, it it strengthens us even more. You know, I it sadly so many people that I see that are um in the workforce that don't like their job. Yeah, and they're miserable. And so, okay, I understand you need to feed your family, you need to do this, you need to do that. Well, let's see what you're strong in. And there's not a lot of employers that encourage that though, either. And that is the one thing that I can say with my time at Tat, they do help with my strengths, all of us together, and it is like a family, and that's why we feel so strongly the way that we feel about the different industries, especially. I mean, our hearts are really especially for the truckers because you are where we started, and you know, I don't think I mean y'all just y'all are special to us.

SPEAKER_01: 41:49

All right, thank you. I'll take that, and uh it's got uh and it'll fuel me. It'll fuel me. You know, you go to the the the fuel island at the truck stop and things like that, but we have to fill up our hearts, we have to fill up our minds with positive things to keep going. So thank you. And I hope other truckers feel the same way, and other professionals uh know that Tat's on their side of being a force for good. So, I mean, what misconceptions of people outside of the space often believe about survivors? How can you help educate folks to see beyond the misconception? What would you say from one of the questions here at the end?

SPEAKER_00: 42:33

We need a lot of care. When someone is coming out of that life, you have to understand what their mental health is like. And if if there aren't people that can care enough for survivors, they can fall back into it because that's what they're comfortable with. And I know that happened with me. I mean, I was trafficked by three different traffickers, and you know, but looking back now, I never had the healing process that I needed.

SPEAKER_01: 43:10

What would you say to a person that you want to help them, but they don't want to help, or that's how they express it, and they don't accept getting help.

SPEAKER_00: 43:23

I I would say continue to try. I mean, just be kind. I mean, I tell people all the time in trainings a kind word, encouragement, small acts of kindness, letting them see a different side of what life really is. Because how if if they've been told for however long that they're nothing, that they're garbage, that being prostitute is the only being prostitute is the only thing that they're good at. They're not used to being, we're not used to being treated like a human being should be. And so coming out of that kind of a situation, even though we don't say help that we want help, we don't even know we need help. We just think this is who we are. This is this has been my life for this many years. So how has that changed now and nobody cared then?

SPEAKER_01: 44:42

Yeah, because yeah, I usually could be 10, 20 years, yeah, before you can see that's that's usually what I kind of go off of. And when things dramatically happen to us, it's kind of it could be decades.

SPEAKER_00: 44:55

I know for me, it took me many, many years to let go of that shame and that guilt, still thinking that I was this worthless piece of garbage, yeah. And but until I had people who who could tell me, hey, that's not who you are.

SPEAKER_01: 45:21

That reason why I mentioned the time frame is because people think, oh, you're out of that situation, all right. Let's let's move on with life, or I don't know. It's just like like you want to you can't really put a time frame on it. It's just if we could educate people that it does take a lot of time, even though you don't feel like you have time because life is just flying by, it it does takes a long time to heal.

SPEAKER_00: 45:48

It does, and I don't and I'm gonna say this, but it is a continuous journey that never ends. We're always healing, there's always gonna be triggers. Many of us come out of of trafficking with mental health issues, complex PTSD. Because if you think about it, just like someone who's been to war and how they come home, I mean, just imagine with all the torture, the beatings, the rapes, the the way we're talked to, the way we're treated. I mean, if someone it this is the best way that maybe I can put this in perspective. If anyone who's listening can think of a person who's been raped maybe one time, and how long did that recovery take?

SPEAKER_01: 46:59

Yeah, it's a lifetime.

SPEAKER_00: 47:01

And then think about someone who has been prostituted over and over and over, sold paid rate day after day after day after day after day, month after month, year after year. So how would how long do you think it should be for someone to heal?

SPEAKER_01: 47:36

Thanks for sharing that. That's um it's not gonna get fixed that quick. It's no, you gotta get comfortable, and it's gonna take time. There may be setbacks. There's gonna be a lot that that person has to go through, and we have to be in for the long haul. Well, well, like a trucker. Trying to make a joke enlighten the mood, yeah. Yeah, thank you for pouring your heart out. That's so sweet that you can help people, and I hope that they're listening and know that there is help out there, and it can start the recovery process. Yeah, start start turning it around. It does yeah, we want everyone to be free from it, and we hope that that day is sooner rather than later. And like I said, we hope we can bring awareness to individuals that are you know, we think about the money, the money, the money. Uh, all money ain't good money, and really think about what your purpose is as to why you're doing what you're doing out there because humans are involved. And uh, if we can get this AI and all this automation to help people be successful, to help people feel like yes, look what I can do. Man, this is amazing. I mean, or how do they know that this would be where we're at today? Where podcasting is so huge. I mean, when I was a little kid, I wanted to be on the radio and be a radio voice, a personality like a DJ and things like that. I thought that was so cool. And now I got that gift given to me. I mean, having to podcast is it's free. Now all the other stuff that goes with it, the microphones and everything. But but that that channel of communication from the FCC is that's huge that we're able to use that. So now I I can feel like you know, I have purpose. So and you do have that's my story, yeah. That's my story. I think other people, if we can use technology in that way for that good, I think uh we'll have more successful humans versus people saying, Oh man, nobody wants to work. Right, yeah, that's not helping. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 49:40

Thank you so much for thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it, and I just want to say one thing to everyone out there. Okay, I know that not only Ray, but everyone that's listening to this podcast is a change maker. So, what I would say is go out there and be the change that you want to see.

SPEAKER_01: 50:07

Nice. I like that. Very nice. You say the best for last, huh?

SPEAKER_02: 50:13

Of course.

SPEAKER_01: 50:14

There you go. All right. Well, Kelly, thank you so much for joining us and breaking not just your expertise but your heart. And uh yeah, this conversation reminds us whether you drive 25 miles or 2500 miles, every set of eyes that you have out there and the ears that are out there, it matters. We can help folks, and folks are folks are listening. So if you want to learn more about how to get trained and how to support TATS mission, or even to share this message wherever you're at, you can go to truckersaginstrafficking.org. And that's a great group of individuals like Kelly. Uh, the industry uh needs more people to get involved and to have that power to save lives and now be a part of you know of what happens with TATS moving forward. You know, I'm sure there's more to come and Tats not stopping.

SPEAKER_00: 51:04

No, we're not.

SPEAKER_01: 51:05

Yeah, so yeah, keep those wheels turning and uh keep those minds open. And as always, that's delivering.