The Nichole Show

Seasons of Transformation: Finding Strength in Life's Darkest Moments with Ben Clarke

• Nichole Hamilton • Season 2 • Episode 5

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Want to discover how life's most challenging moments can become powerful catalysts for growth? 

In today's soul-stirring episode, we sat down with Ben Clarke, a fellow coach and friend of over ten years, to explore the healing power of surrendering to life's natural cycles and seasons.

Ben shares his journey through a dark night of the soul, revealing how his "worst day" became a profound turning point. 

You'll hear how a simple mental shift from "just give up" to "just step up" sparked a complete transformation in his life path.

Through our conversation, Ben explains how yoga philosophy, breathwork, and mindfulness practices helped him master his mind and emotions. 

His insights offer practical wisdom for anyone feeling trapped in repetitive mental patterns.

The discussion explores how to embrace life's ebbs and flows with trust and grace, viewing challenges as redirections rather than obstacles. 

You'll learn how conscious breathing creates immediate shifts in your nervous system and overall wellbeing.

By the episode's end, you'll understand that your past resilience is evidence of your future capability. 

Ben reminds us that our darkest moments often lead to our greatest transformations, and that we're all fundamentally equipped to navigate life's challenges.

Whether you're currently struggling or building resilience for the future, this episode offers both practical tools and philosophical perspectives to help you trust life's unfolding process.

To connect with Ben Clarke:

Connect with Nichole Hamilton:

Website: https://www.thekidzcoach.com.au/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nichole.hamilton.587
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thekidzcoach_nichole_hamilton/

Want to be a guest on The Nichole Show?
Email: thenicholeshow@gmail.com

Hello guys, and welcome back to The Nichole Show, where we dive deep behind the masks of human nature and the social reels and reams of what you do and don't see, and we get really vulnerable. Today's guest is a beautiful fellow coach Ben Clarke and also a brother. I have known him for a very long time and watched his journey being inspired, being a part of his containers and retreats, and having somebody with a soul's purpose to also help men and women out there be the best versions of themself, is what I love to share. So you guys don't feel so alone. So without further ado. Please listen to, along with some great ideas and inspiring insights with Ben Clark. Welcome back guys, to the Nichole Show for 2025 and, oh God, I love this space. I get to, it feels like a coaching session for myself. Today in the hot seat, we have a beautiful friend of mine, like Ben Clarke. He's a fellow coach, uh, mentor friend. I've known him over 10 years and we've been in this space coaching and catching up for a really long time. And I love the fact that from this work we've really, you know, we get to connect at that deep soul level. Um, and very interesting that I have another male in the 2025 seat. So let's dive into all the things, men's mental health coaching and yeah, get some cool stories out of you, Ben. Great to be here. It's been a while, but, um, yeah, just even before it's like, uh, we just picked up where we left off really. But yeah, we've known each other for a while. We've, we've journeyed and weaved together and gone on our own path, but it's good to come back full circle and excited to be here today. Thank you so much. Well, we love flowing on this show with intuition and, you know, deep, soulful connection. So I would love to kind of drop into your intuition and I don't want just a synopsis of Ben, 'cause that that's the story, right? We kind of get stuck in our, in our, in our bio. Let's not do the bio. I'd love to know what your heart wants to tell my listeners today. Like, where, where, where does your heart wanna go with this? With this collaboration, this story? Yeah. Actually, like before I jumped on here today, I did sort of sit with that. I'm like, what is, what's the thing that I wanna share today? What's alive in me? What's, what have I noticed in other groups that I've been sharing in over the last while? What's been a current theme that's been sort of popping up? And yeah, I think the, the theme that's been really ripe and something that I would love to share today is this concept of like seasons and cycles and. Yeah, ultimately that there's always going to be these ebbs and flows of life and how we can also navigate those different seasons with a sense of like, I guess trust and grace, that, yeah, maybe life isn't happening to us, but for us, and even in the most challenging times, um, often it's like this ability to see the gifts there and maybe we're being redirected and, you know, sometimes you're in those moments and it's like, oh, this is, this is heavy, this is challenging. But even just having, I guess, that awareness that maybe. There's more to this than meets the eye. Maybe this is actually a redirection piece opposed to something happening to you. It gives you sort of different eyes to what you can see and and what you focus on. And I feel like even in the most challenging times, it's like knowing this too shall pass and it's happening for you. Um, that seems to be something that's been coming up a lot in a lot of other groups that I've been in. And even myself personally, I feel like, you know, over the last probably 12 months. It's been like this massive, massive like death and rebirth journey and it's actually been more beautiful than it's ever been. And I feel like throughout life you're gonna have several of these kind of like reinventing yourself moments or like this deconstruction of like this person that you thought you were. And I feel like, you know, you've known me for over 10 years, you've probably seen some of those journeys yourself. Um, I definitely have. I. Yeah, I guess just the man I am today. And I feel like even this new chapter I'm about to move into of, uh, fatherhood as well, you know, that itself is kind of like a death and a rebirth in a beautiful way. It's like letting go of this old identity and stepping into this new identity. I. With open arms. Um, and of course there's gonna be sometimes a little bit of resistance around that, but it's like realizing that's inevitable. Like, you know, change is the only constant really, but how can you kind of meet each season with a sense of like openness and and grace in that? And I feel like it transforms those seasons. You're able to like navigate in differently opposed to like going, oh, when is this going to end? It's like enjoying that season and knowing the next season is just around the corner also. Mm, I I here and I feel like there's gentle knowing, like this super trust in the, the changes and the, and the things that are, you know, being highlighted in your world. I would love to know.'cause I, I feel very similar at the moment. I feel like whatever's coming up I can have awareness of and, and move through and with, um, with a lot more clarity. When did, like, how did you realize that shift? Because we've all been in the, oh fuck, this is awful. I hate, I dunno, what to do, um, the situation, you know, and where we go into a total probably spiral or depression or whatever, we've all been, you know, challenged or traumatized by something. Mm-hmm. When, like, how did you get that, like that awareness and that really, like I can feel that you know, that, that things are happening for you and guiding you and the rest. Explain to the listeners though, how, what, how, where, like where does that come from, I guess? You know, anything that you believe is going to be a compound effect of experiences from the past where you have, I guess, seen the results of that at some capacity. And I guess like you could look at philosophy. There's like even Dao uh, quotes that talk about this. I mean, one of my favorites actually is like. When it comes to change, it's like you can either surrender to change or you can be dragged. It's gonna happen, like regardless, right? I guess there's that, you know, there's those sort of teachings out there, but it's not until you kind of meet those challenging moments, I think, and then you, you, you come out the other side and you know yourself and anyone listening today, like if you really reflect on your life, everyone's had these moments where their back's been against the wall. And they're like, you know, how am I gonna find the way through this? This? Like, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. How am I gonna find my way through? But like if you're listening now, if you're sitting here now, if you're on this podcast right now, you've only ever found the way when you think about it, you've only ever found the way. So really, the fear of anything that may or may not happen in the future is really like a fear in our own capacity to be able to navigate that. And the only evidence you actually have is that you always have been able to navigate it. So therefore many evidence is that you probably always will. But you know, the more resourceful you can come, you can become in those moments, the more you can, I ironically become more still and surrender, you know, in those moments it's like you want to force things correct. You want like, or even, you know, I wanna have more control here 'cause I feel like things are out of control. But the irony is like the more that you can. Almost laugh and I often, this is something that I'll do these days. I'll actually like go, this is like a bit of a cosmic joke. Yeah. You know, pause. What a pleasure. You know, why is this in my movie? You know? Instead of going, oh, this is like, why is this happening right now? I go, ports. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. What a pleasure. Like what an opportunity. Why is this in my movie? And the only evidence I've ever got is that I've been able to find the way or make the way through this stuff. And I guess like if I look at my own journey, probably the time where I, I felt like it was the end and without going into all the details, 'cause I realized we have like a limited time here today as well through a whole leap of different events. I got to the point where I, I didn't know who I was, where I was going. I like lost a lot of my sense of self in my identity. I was pretty much. Having anxiety attacks and like basically up and down in terms of like one day depressed, one day, super anxious. I literally would have an anxiety attack when the phone rang and I was caught in my mind. Mm-hmm. And you know, really this was only what like. Bit over a decade ago. I think this was probably like only a few years before we first met, actually, like maybe like, yeah. Maybe three, four years before we first met and yeah, I was ready to check out. I like the, the, the scenario I give is like, the image I had in my mind was, do you remember those old 60 fours? Like where you used to like have the, uh, 64 controllers? You had to put like the game in. Okay. And you could just literally go mm-hmm. Boom, boom, and turn it off and on and it would reboot again. Yep. It was like, I just wanna like restart. Like I just feel trapped. I feel like, I dunno how to, how to navigate this world with the mind that I got, I felt like trapped in my mind and one day like, yeah, I was ready to, to like end it and I literally just had this voice in my head that was just like, just give up. Like just give up. You know what? Everyone would be better off if you just gave up like. You can't do this. You can't do this. Just give up. Just give up. Just give up. And probably that was like, even though it was the hardest day of my life, like in so many different ways, like honestly if it wasn't for the love of my parents, I don't think I'd even be here. You know, like it was imagining their grief of me taking that path that was really stopping me from following through. But it was probably my first, I guess, spiritual experience. My first proper spiritual experience. It was like this little voice that kept saying, just give up. Just give up. It turned into like this little voice of like, just step up. Just step up. It's like you just need to step up. Just step up. Yeah. Wow. And this, in that same day, in that same 24 hours, it flipped to step up or when feeling came before, like. It was like a, um, a feeling of hopelessness to just simply hope, a belief that like things could change. And for whatever reason in that moment, like I, I stepped into a space like within myself, where I was like, at some level I've attracted or enabled all this. Like I can't blame anyone else for all the stuff anymore. Like, I need to take control of this. And it actually was an empowering moment for me because I had this realization, and again, this is just like in this moment, this is what I thought. I don't have to like accept this realization, um, anyone listening. But in that moment I was like, well, if this is what I've created with what I've got right now, like within my mindset, um, yeah, I could create something pretty beautiful if I thought differently, if I focused on things differently, if I had a different mindset in my inner world. But all I knew back then was I. Essentially like science and psychology. So that's, you know, that's what I did that day. I enrolled in a post-grad psychology course and I looked at how can I change my, my inner world. I, I like, rang up my mom and said I need help, and she helped, you know, get me counseling, help me get a psychologist appointment. And then I actually got online. I wasn't working at the time'cause I was such in a pity party. Uh, and yeah, I went and got a job and yeah, things like turned around very quickly from that moment onwards and so many other death rebirth journeys from that point. But if I was to look at like a, a pivotal moment in my life where literally at that moment if you had have asked me, like right now, is this how, like is this the best day of your life or the worst day of your life? I absolutely would've told you. This is like the worst day of my life. Like this is the end. I really do thank you for sharing that story.'cause it's super powerful and you're the third person, third male that shared a, a suicide, um, journey. Uh, like, well thought process and, and Dark Day, dark Night of the Soul, third or fourth, actually. So, uh, I really believe that it's part of my mission this year to, to shed some light. And there are always, uh, links below for Lifeline for other coaches. You know, if we're not the right people, please do reach out. But that's a beautiful way that I, I've never heard you tell the story that way before Ben. And I love the fact that the things that I got out of it is there was a mindset shift of like, you know. You know, just give up to just step up. Like just even just that one word made such a resonant change. Uh, secondly, I heard that you asked for help, like you asked your mom for help. That is the biggest fucking thing that anybody can do. I know in my own processes of addiction and despair, the moment you actually have the capacity to go, I fucking need help. Whether you type it, whether you ask for it, whether you tell your best friend, whoever. You unconsciously, something shifts that the universe has got your back. Like it literally does. God's got your back. As soon as you ask for help, things will shift and turn for you. And I always say it's like, um, oh, now I, now I can't remember, but it's almost like, oh, you know when you draw a.to dot. Yeah, and you, you don't know where it's going. Like if you've got, especially if you've got a crazy.to.like you, you honestly have no idea what you're drawing. Right. But when you look back, you're like far out, like, how cool is that? Like I didn't know where the numbers were going. I didn't know where it was taking me. And that's what life is like. Like when you look back, like it could have been the worst moment, moment at that time, but when you look back you're like, oh my God. Look at the beauty in that. Look at the. That the universe directed me somewhere else. Look at the pivotal moment to go through that despair or that thing to get you to this. And I, and I do love that reflection, like we are all so capable. Like we've got nothing else to, to prove us. Otherwise. It doesn't matter where you're at now. You've got to here regardless of your circumstances and situations and what's happened, like you have literally got yourself to here. And that again is we don't probably give ourselves enough credit for that, like drawing on that innate wisdom and survival that we have within all of us. So thank you for sharing that. It's super powerful. And um, you know, I had, I had a, a, a reading and, and one of the, and I think that this is relevant to everybody, but, um, she's like, your soul came down here to go through the challenges that you created to then teach and heal from that. Like, you could see everybody else struggling, so you were just like, go through it. And so in my head I was like, oh, I fucked this up, or I did this. Like, I had, you know, a story attached to some of the adversities that I created. And she's like, no, like you fucking did that to do this. And I think it's the same thing, like if you really know that every single soul has come on this life to go through the journey, you know, by design, if you think to then come through it, everybody has that capacity to then give back. And I, I, you know, originally created this podcast for the cheat codes. Like, you know how then, you know, how did you know for me, you know, get over addiction or how So I would love to know what is one of the most. Powerful or kind of, um, biggest takeaways for you? You've done a lot of study in that 10 years that I've known you as well or over, and you've learned a lot of modalities and you hold space for a lot of people in different realms. What is your absolute favorite thing to show somebody or take them through a process? What's your, what's your thing that you know that people should all experience? That is my question. Hey everyone, Nichole here, and I hope you're enjoying today's episode. I just wanna take a quick moment to talk to you all. If you're finding value in our conversations and loving the raw, honest dialogues we're having here, I've got a small favor to ask. This podcast is a passion project for me, and there's nothing I love more than bringing these stories and insights to you. So if you haven't already, would you consider subscribing to our show and leaving a review? It's completely free and it doesn't take much time, but it really helps us in two big ways. It's getting the podcast in front of more listeners, which keeps our community growing. It helps us attract more amazing guests, which means we give you more value in the episodes we bring to you. Just hit that subscribe button, drop us a review, and let's keep these conversations flowing. Now let's dive right back into our episode, and thanks so much of being a part of the Nichole's show. All right, we're back. Apparently we dropped out there. We're back. We, we dropped out there for a minute, but we're back. That's the main thing. We are, we are back. All good. We are back. Yeah. And that's, I guess from the philosophy, that's a deep, deep dive, really, like how deep that philosophy goes of yoga. And really it's about what you do and, and what you don't do. That really creates a different reality for yourself, a different state, but also it's about the ability to withdraw the senses. The ability to actually block out all the noise to go more inward and essentially seek the answers that you know, you don't have to look outside to find. They're actually all within you. It's bringing yourself back to a trust in your own innate wisdom that lives within you as well. It's like if you actually can start to get in this deeper connection with your body, you know what your body needs in order to operate in terms of food wise, at its optimum, you know, you know what's best for you. You know what's a like a hell yes, and what's a hell no. There's like this intelligence, this innate intelligence that runs the body and this innate intelligence that we can tap into. And in yoga, they even speak about this ability to go essentially beyond the mind because the mind is just like reacting to everything by the senses. But it's like, how can we get to the point where we're actually in the intellect? And the intellect is not the mind. The mind is like basically, oh, I heard something. Reacting to sound. Oh, I smell something. I see something. If I taste something, touch something, it's like reacting in that way. Whereas the intellect essentially is like above the mind. It's like the observer of your thoughts. It's the observer of the internal world and the external world simultaneously. And often the intellect is known as like the buddhi or the buddha, which means like above mind and the ability to actually start observing your own thoughts, your own actions. And just as we were speaking about before, this is really where everything opens up. The ability instead of to put the mirror and like project out everywhere else, it's, you know, their fault, it's their fault, it's the economy's fault. It's like, ooh, interesting that I'm getting activated by this. Or like, something's coming up around this because where there is activation, there is something there to look at because if there's no activation, then it's a non-issue. Yeah. And it's, it may, it's like this level of curiosity and then the ability to also create a little bit of separation between. The mind and body and breath work could be a really great, um, tool for that. And I guess when I say yoga, I feel like the reason why I feel yoga is good is because it like kind of gives you some teachings around how to master your mind some abilities to not be a slave to the senses and just react to life, to be more responsive, to be more the observer of your internal external world and respond more consciously. And then I feel like probably when we look at working with the breath, working with the ability to create also a little bit of separation between the mind and body. We look at this er, the ability to focus and direct the mind. This is how you can actually get shit done. Yeah. This is how you can actually like manifest into the world. It's all very good world to have a dream, but it's, it's about how can I then focus and direct my energy and where focus goes, energy flows, right? Yeah. To actually like, then how do I bring this into actualization? And then beyond that is like, of course. Knowing that you are more than just this mind, more than just this body. Yeah. More than your identity. And I think like even just having a, a moment of that and not like intellectualizing it, but an embodied experience that you are, that you are, uh, pure awareness. Yeah, I got it too. Yeah. That, that then suddenly, like there's not this strong attachment to. The body to the mind, and therefore a fear. I feel like a fear of death leads you, leads you that day too, because there's no clinging to this. Like life. It's like it's, it's all just a journey and it's all just here to be experienced and like, yeah, really living, living is learning. But I would say probably at the moment, the thing that I love the most, sharing with people, I know this has gone a long way round. That's okay. But out of all of those limbs, mm-hmm. I feel like what the world needs most at the moment mm-hmm. Is actually the somatic stuff. Like working with the breath through the body. Yeah. Right. I feel, yeah, I feel like that's what the world needs right now, and there's gonna be different cycles and different seasons. The world has definitely been like really refining the intellect, which has been, you know, helps human species evolve for good and for bad. Sometimes for good, somewhat times for bad, but this is. This is life. It's like whatever you wield that knowledge and power towards it will manifest in that direction. But yeah, I feel like the world actually needs, it needs to come back into themselves and yeah, I feel like the breath is to be you. The reason we breathe is, yeah. It's so powerful. Yeah. And the reason we breathe is because like there is life force energy, not because we don't breathe to create li life force energy. We, we are breathing because that life force energy is alive within you. And yeah, I, I, I'm preaching to the choir here with you. No, I, I love it. I love how, well, I didn't, I know that I'm drawn to Sanskrit. I know that I'm drawn to meditation. I know that I'm drawn to movement. I haven't really studied yoga myself, but I love that that all comes into that one philosophy. So I see and feel that that practice, um, with the right teachers could just be absolutely so spiritual and so perfect. For that body, mind, soul. Like that's what I feel like when you speak that. Yeah. And then when you come back to the breath, I'm like, oh my God. I just, I had the most powerful breath work experience with a different coach one-on-one the other week and, but I personally still love like hypno, like hypnotic language love. And so this was a blend of the both. And I'm an energetic being too, so. When the, the three are kind of like melded together and you have the touch and the breath and then the hypnotic language, like, I'm like off the charts orgasmic, like just all the sensors. And I love being, you know, in like as a support because you can feel and see where people are touching in, in those places and spaces. But a hundred percent breath is a very easy. Because, you know, it's, it's not as confronting. I feel like people can go in and go, okay, I'm gonna breathe and I'm gonna feel something, something in my ear is gonna shift. I can have that control and release and, and it's a really powerful thing. And with what I'm seeing, just even in the youth and people we're so dysregulated, we are not breathing properly anyway. We're not probably moving our bodies enough. And the breath and taking that control. It's such a release on the nervous system, even in conscious breathing. Not even a full breath work experience, like conscious breathing and relaxing, which you get to do in yoga and meditation as well. It's so important, and yet it's fucking free. Yeah. And we don't know how powerful it is. Like coming into that, um, is absolutely beautiful. So, yeah. That you, you know, you touched on all of it. Again, guys, if you, uh, you know, if you are following along a, a little off channels and rants, um, we are a wealth of knowledge. Like there's so much cool free content out there too. But just, you know, finding what's right for you. And I always say keep asking, like keep trying. Like if you really hate breath, but cool, go try yoga if you really don't like that. Yeah. Go. You know, there, there are heaps of modalities out there. Um, I don't think I've found what I don't like, to be honest. Like, I think when I've tried, like when you have a new coach and you're learning something and you're like, oh, that's cool. Um, it's just, it's, it's a big game, like in this adult world of playing and unraveling and relearning more about ourselves. And that's what I, I, I find joy in, I, you know. As scary as it is sometimes though, I still get nervous when I rock up for a coaching call. I've been doing this a long time. Um, but yeah, I, I find that learning from others and their experiences and what they've been through is super powerful. Yeah, a hundred percent. And that you basically hit the nail on the head. It's, yeah, I think just be open, I think like be open to all the different modalities out there and Yeah. Different times of your journey, I feel like. We will call for different potential modalities or like you might need a little bit more, you know, work through the mind and then maybe more unconsciously, maybe a bit more through the body somatically. Yeah. Different times, different cycles, different seasons. Kind of, you know, starting off with what we started for the very start of the call talking about, we'll call for different things. Yeah. Um, yeah. But hypno is ironically like hypno again, like in yoga too. Like if you listen to a guided meditation in yoga. It's very hypnotic in nature, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's it's interesting. It all kind of weaves together. Yeah. It all kind of, all the modalities actually do blend when you start getting a bit more knowledge. They do. They really do. It's true. Um. I just dropped in. I don't know why, but, um, as you were talking and you know about modalities and different ways of doing it, our beautiful friend Joko, like we've learned so much. I'd love to know. So Joko is a beautiful healer and, and a master in his own right over in Bali. And Bali is like a second home to, to you and I and I thank you for introducing me to him 'cause he is a beautiful, powerful human being. Um, I would love to know Joko a beautiful friend of ours, like what have you learned most off of him? I find him. So like, he is literally the embodiment of all the modalities that we've just spoken of. Like, he just walks the walk, talks the talk, and I found like I've learned so many cool little, um, tricks off of him. Um, and. You know, in a, in a different, in a non westernized culture, like it's really cool to watch how other people interact and learn and, and heal. And, and, um, if you, if anybody listening to this, you guys get to travel to Bali, go maybe on one of Ben's retreats.'cause he hosts a lot over there, uh, with the beautiful Joko. They do these beautiful waterfall healings and this man is just a magnificent energy. I'd love to know what you've learned from him because I just find him. Somebody that you just wanna go back and, and see again and again, and, and, and that healing, that process in another country, um, along with the, the water and the rituals. But yeah, I'd love for you to touch on that. I don't know why he dropped in, so I just followed my intuition. But yeah. You've been working with him for a long time. We have been working together for a long time. Yeah. Once, uh, yeah, once someone helping me out with a retreat, turned to a good friend. Turned to, yeah, a brother from another mother and like. Yeah, pretty amazing. Uh, the journey that we've been on. I remember we first met, uh, where I was actually helping out at another retreat and I was introduced to him then. And, uh, there was some stuff going down on that retreat where, uh, it needed a little bit of assistance and we actually had to work together to like caught a kind of bring it back again. It was like some of the guests were getting a little bit disgruntled, uh, at this other retreat. Um, 'cause a few things weren't going to plan and, you know, they were. Getting a little bit, I guess, agitated about that. And we had to kind of like, almost like work together to like turn the retreat around. And um, I was just, yeah, I was just, uh, employed to like run the yoga there and I ended up like running some workshops, some breath work journeys. Uh, we ended up like working our little itinerary where they could go do the water cleansing and it was really cool. Like we, we didn't save the retreat, but like we certainly, uh, in that moment like bonded over this like little goal of like. Alright. You know, things aren't going too well with this retreat. We're just like employed to help out, but like, let's, let's work together and let's work with the hosts here and let's, like, make this really beautiful for everyone. And, uh, we really bonded over that. And, uh, I just run one retreat, uh, before that point. So this was nine years ago or something, but, um, oh, is that your first retreat? Oh, oh yes. You were the one. Okay. First retreat in Bali. Sorry, you were at my very first, though. Your very first retreat. Yes. And you know what they say? You never forget your first, so there you go. Uh, and yeah, we, um, we bonded over that and then, uh, I, I said to him, Hey, I've got some retreats coming up. I'd love to work together. And then, um, I just started coming over to Bali, like just. You know, spending large chunks of time and he sort of like introduced me into his world and, uh, I, yeah, got to like get to know him a bit more and we just became really great friends. I got to go to his wedding recently, which was so beautiful. I remember like just seeing him with his new wife and um, just how happy they were together. Like it brought me to tears'cause I was just like. Yeah, just like so much love for this, this man. To see him in so much joy just brought me so much joy. And yeah, he's got a, he's got a, uh, another young child on the way, which is really exciting with his, with his new wife and yeah, gonna hopefully meet her really, really soon, which is exciting. But, um, yeah, often when we have retreats, I, yeah. Now knowing Joko for such a long time, I often say to people, this at the very beginning and this amazing man. I want you to, to not just listen to what he says, but I want you to really start to be aware of what he does.'cause it's not what he says that is the most important, but it is what he does and who he is. And if you observe that, you're gonna learn so much. And so what do I think is the, the biggest learnings that he's, he's given to me. Mm-hmm. And I think this is just through an embodiment of who he is. Uh, it is his ability to not like, be in the space of like complaining or getting frustrated when things don't go to plan. Never, never, right? You, you can back me up. Never, never frustrated. He says, and I'm gonna try to do my best, Joko, um, okay, impersonation ready. Don't worry. He goes, don't worry. All good. Don't worry. Like, it just, it just like, it's always all good. And he'll go, don't worry. Be happy. You know, and even though that might seem a little, like a little cheeky, a little laughable, there's actually so much embodiment in that because he's not just saying it in, in a way where he doesn't mean it. He literally, you can see when things don't go to plan, when you know someone does something even to him that you'd say like, that's not, that's pretty unfair. He's still like, you know, I only give them love and I see that in him again and again. Like he actually, I. Shows me how to be a man who's really embodied in that. Like lover archetype, the wizard archetype, you know, that that magician, like the ability to have one foot in kind of like this spiritual realm, one foot in like this realm, you know, he's able to like ultimately find a solution to anything it seems because that's what he focused on. Solutions, not problems. He does, he channels and he, his gift and his energy, and like you said, it's not even a. What he says, that's what he does. It's how he behaves. What he does, you know, grabs your hand if you know when you're having a wobble and you can just feel him or his energy exchange and he is changing of his breathing. And yeah, I, um, I don't know why it dropped in, but I really do highly recommend going to one of Ben's retreats and meeting Joko and going over there Bali. If you guys have the the funds ever listening to this, that is one of the most spiritual places you can go for a full transformation body, mind, soul. Yeah. And you know, being in the power of other people that are really embodied that you wanna learn from, oh my God. Like, yeah, definitely got a, a huge, um, chunk of my heart to go back and to be there more. And, and, um, yeah. And I don't think I would've fallen in love with Bali as much if I hadn't met Joko as well. Like he just, even for families and all those things, like, I always recommend him, but he's so, yeah. Such a good man. And it's like, no, it always says to me, no complaining. It's just everyone, like no complaining. No complaining, and really, like, it's, it's really just stepping back into that gratitude. It's like even your worst day, like when you really think about it, there are people in the world that would like kill to have your worst day. Yeah. It's like the truth of the matter is there is like so much abundance around us. Sometimes we get so caught up in looking at what's, you know, lacking when really there's actually. So much abundance there. Um, so yeah, he always reminds me of that too. It's like, what are you complaining about? Yeah, life is beautiful if you have the eyes to see it. So he is an embodiment of that, there's no doubt. Well, isn't that interesting that we come back to that and really where we started was, you know, having the ability to move through and surrender and, and, you know, knowing that life is happening for us. So having that, that kind of similar, uh, philosophy at the beginning and the end there. So awful, right? Yeah, it's, and I, yeah, hopefully that some of this stuff lands, some of it may not, but, um, I'm gonna put all your details at the bottom, Ben, because Yeah. One of the, the best things that you was gifted to me was Joko as well, like having those, that place to go to and heal. And I've had time and space over there, and I think it's a, a really powerful place for healing. And along with all the other things that we discussed today. I feel complete. I feel like we journeyed today. Oh, hardly ever. Uh, is there anything else that you wanna say? Um, I know obviously you've put all your socials and everything underneath, but, um, anything else you'd like to let the listeners know before we sign off? Yeah, yeah. Best way to, to find out what we do. Um, I've got a couple of different businesses. Uh, one is Empowered Academy, so empowered academy.com au. Um, you'll find all our retreats and all our courses that we've got running there. So everything we spoke about, all those modalities today, they're all the things that, um, I teach at Empowered Academy, um, myself and the team, uh, as well as run full immersions where we bring in a lot of that philosophy that I was talking about as well, and. That embodied experience gets meet Joko if you get to go over to Bali as well. Another space that I'm super passionate about is, uh, another business that I'm also a part of. This is more a passion project, but, um, yeah, it's, it's been something that's been on my heart for a very long time. Obviously, I spoke about, uh, my journey as a, as a young man and, you know, ultimately if it wasn't for having supportive people around me, I definitely didn't have the tools that I have now. But, um, it wasn't for the supportive people around me. Um, I probably wouldn't be here. And as you've sort of spoken into Nichole as well, like for a lot of young men, um, and, and just men in general. Not young men, but men in general. Unfortunately, yeah. All ages. It doesn't discriminate. Um, there's a lot of men that yeah, haven't, I guess, um, created those networks around them or, or feel that it's weak to speak and, uh, suppress a lot of like, you know, emotions and so forth. And gen, because it's like generational. Um, I guess conditioning and that this is what a strong man is, doesn't, it doesn't, you know, show emotions and all of that, which obviously has created unfortunately, um, yeah, a, a statistic where unfortunately a lot of men, uh, who can't see the way through, choose the way out. And so, uh, a really beautiful space that I've been able to. Uh, also be part of for the last five years, uh, with a lot of great friends of mine and another great, um, partner. My partner in this business and Lee Barrett, we run Brazen Brotherhood. So if you know a man, if you are a man and you want to come into a, a safe space where it's not weak to speak, and you can be, uh, you can be bold and shameless and free in your expression, and yeah, just be around other like-minded men, we get out, um, and we hike and we, you know, sit around campfires and. Nothing's off the table. It's a space where you can be raw, be real, and, and be held by other men. It's a transformational space for men. And um, yeah, it was really all born out of actually a, uh, a moment where a really beautiful young man that I was really close with, um, yeah, unfortunately took his life and it really, it, it like tormented me 'cause it was like these questions of like, you know, could I have said something different? Could I have done something different? At the time, and really like I realized that, you know, you don't really know what's going on in that person's inner world at the time, but um, you never would've picked it either. It's like one of those things, you never would've picked it. And it tormented me for such a long time because I thought like, there's nothing good in this. Like, how can I find the good in this? I was struggling to find the good in it. And I'll finish on this because this is probably one of the most powerful things that anyone has ever said to me, and I feel like in closing I'd like to share it in the space. I went to one of my teachers, uh, yoga teachers, and I said, look, this has been tormenting me. I can't see that how this event in the past has any good associated to it. I can't reframe it. I can't put a positive spin on it. This is horrible of what is, what's happened here. He had everything going for him, and now he's gone. He said, Ben, can you like change the past? I'm like, I, I can't. I can't change the past. I can't. I wish I could. He's like, well, what can you focus on? What can you control? I'm like. The future. That's pretty much it is present moment. And he is like, so how can you take something seemingly tragic with no good and how can you turn it into something so beautiful? How can you make this man's death become a legacy so that other men maybe don't have to go through the same And so raise and brotherhood. So it's very. Yeah, very important to me. And there's a lot of other men out there holding beautiful spaces now, and thank you, Nichole, also for holding space for men to speak in, in this platform too, because obviously if this is going out to more men to know that it's not weak to speak that, uh, the most courageous thing you can do is ask for help as we spoke about.