Nature Therapy, Neurodivergent Parenting & Letting Kids Thrive with Louise Finn

In this week’s episode of The Nichole Show, we sit down with Louise Finn from Off the Couch Therapy, a kids’ therapist, counsellor, and neurodivergent mum of five, to talk about what truly supports children and families in today’s fast-paced, tech-heavy world.

We explore why nature-based therapy and play-based counselling can be game-changers for neurodivergent kids, how to navigate screen time without guilt, and why letting children be themselves (and us too) is central to emotional wellness.

Louise shares:
 🌿 Why nature is her co-therapist, helping kids and parents regulate and find clarity
 💡 The challenges and gifts of parenting neurodivergent children while being neurodivergent herself
 📱 Practical insights on screen time, tech boundaries, and building independence without fear
 💗 How pole dancing and other creative outlets help parents reconnect with themselves
 🏫 Why advocating for your child at school is essential and how to do it with confidence
 ✨ The importance of letting kids play, move their bodies, and regulate in their own unique ways

This conversation is a warm, honest, and practical reminder that healing and growth don’t have to happen on a couch and that finding what works for your family is more important than fitting into anyone else’s box.

Whether you’re a parent, carer, teacher, or someone working with neurodivergent kids, this episode is filled with insights, encouragement, and gentle permission to embrace what truly supports regulation, connection, and joy.

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Connect with Louise:
🌿 Website: www.offthecouchtherapy.com.au
💌 Email: louise@offthecouchtherapy.com.au
📘 Facebook: Happy Healthy Heart - Louise

Connect with Nichole Hamilton:

Website: https://www.thekidzcoach.com.au/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nichole.hamilton.587
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thekidzcoach_nichole_hamilton/

Want to be a guest on The Nichole Show?
Email: thenicholeshow@gmail.com

Transcript

0:26

Welcome back guys to the Nicole Show. And for those you know, watching and playing at home, we love your interactions. So please ask questions or, uh. Message me if you want to be a guest. This week, I put the post out and I have the beautiful Louise, uh, from Off the Couch Therapy. Also a kids coach, therapist, uh, counselor as well. So very like-minded souls. Uh, in many ways we've been talking off, off air about all our, um. Alignment. So we'll get into that. But thank you so much for joining us,'cause I know we've got some cool things. I've got some questions for you and I didn't wanna get too much into it, but Louise, give us a little synopsis of you and how you're describing yourself today. Okay. How am I describing myself today? Well, let's face it, most days. Some days are different to others for today. Today. So I am a kids' therapist. I also support families, um, being neurodivergent, myself and a mom of five, three of which have been diagnosed, two of which haven't been, but I suspect firmly that they're also on the autism spectrum. Two. Um. So I work with a lot of neurodivergent families. Um, and my preferred modality, or the one that I really love to do with kids and families is nature based therapy. Um, and also a bit of Lego based therapy as well. So it's not that standard. Come to an office, sit there where there's some dogged books and some broken. You know, toys and that horrible feeling of like, oh gosh, she's gonna ask me lots of questions. It's like down at the beach with my dog playing with toys, you know, having chats about Roblox or whatever is going on in the kids' life. Um, and I absolutely love it. I absolutely love it. Oh, I love that too. Um, yeah, I was only saying today one of my clients, like the best one that I have with them is just being organic. You know, if it's getting a boost juice or going for a drive or doing whatever, like being a mentor and having beautiful conversations is the therapy, right? Like asking the right questions and holding the space where you are. Client or child or family feel so comfortable like that is the point of it. It doesn't absolutely be in a couch, in a bedroom laying down, whatever it can be anywhere, you know? Yeah, yeah, for sure. What do you believe, because you know, nature blaze therapy, amazing, but what do you believe that nature brings to us, to us humans in that healing sense? I mean, look, I say that nature is like my co-therapist. In fact, I feel like even if I didn't say a word, sometimes nature is doing all of the healing. Um, you know, we know from so many studies and just from our own personal experience, you know, when we're out in nature, whether it's at the beach or at the park dog just being hanging out with dogs, I mean, that's just therapy in itself. Um, but it just makes you feel relaxed. It makes all of your problems seem so much smaller when you are out in the great wonder of the universe. I feel for myself, and I know that, you know, going for a walk with someone who you trust, just getting that exercise, that kinetic energy, it helps your brain start to find solutions. So whether they know the child is five or I've got a, you know, a, an older person like a mom or even a grandma that I'm work. Walking with it works for everybody a lot. I always say like, nature is no respecter of persons. Um, doesn't matter where you're from, what your, you know, background nature's there for everybody. And I'm, I really just makes my job so much easier, to be honest. I just love that. I just love that. And um, for me, and I don't know if this is an A DHD thing, but for me, definitely the beach is a calling to me. Uh, the sound, you know, I listen to white noise when I sleep, but the sound of the ocean mm-hmm. The smell of it. So I'm a big, you know, um, um, uh, um, what is it? Old factory, like the smell sense. Yeah. And all the sound and then the hearing. So it's this, all the senses entwined. Mm-hmm. I love, like, that would be my first choice. Mm-hmm. Um, other friends of mine and my wife are definitely like forest and nature people. Like, they just, they would pick that over. But they both do. Bring that harmony, do that peace. And the best thing I've been feeling a little wobbly of late and every single like coach or friend of mine is like, let's go for a walk. Like, let's get out there, let's do that. And it does, it literally shifts some of the energy and absolutely whatever's going on. If you move your body in nature, it's, it's, you know, it's the last thing you wanna do when you're not feeling your best. Mm. That it's the best thing for you Yeah. To move through it like it's, yeah. So powerful. And it's hard. Obviously we are in winter at the moment if, you know, whoever's listening. Um, but we're in winter in, in Australia, which, you know, isn't like winter in, in Europe, but it's still cold and just sometimes you don't wanna go out. So, you know, I've got my beanie and I've got my, you know, my sort of. Puff a jacket on, but you still feel the benefit of it. I love barefoot walking at the beach. You know, that grounding that, like you say, the sensory seeking in there.'cause I'm very sensory seeking as well. So, you know, having the cold of the sea and then the sand under your feet. But I must admit today I just come back from a beach walk today, kept my shoes on. I was like, yeah, nah, not today. Yeah, I love the beach for, and I've done a lot of cold therapy and shock therapy, so definitely love the a, a good cold plunge every now and then. Um, but I haven't done that for a month or so with the, with the weather. You're right. But yeah, you're brave. Yeah, you're brave. No, there's no excuse though. I, I mean, I wanna see the sunriser the morning so beanie on big puffer jacket, like, you know, get out there and, and enjoy it. And so yeah. I love that. I love that. And it's something that I think. With the world that we're in and which should be a beautiful segue, but the world that we're in, like, yes, technology is amazing. We are using it for productive means. There's so many beautiful reels and podcasts and audio books and we have everything at our fingertips. We're just saying chat, GPT, like you can ask anything. You got a therapist there really like, well to a point, but you can ask curiosity about anything, however. It is also at our detriment. It's our biggest addiction. It regulate our nervous systems. You know, we've, we've got lights, we've got, you know, all these sensors are overloaded. Yeah. I'd love to chat to you and pick your brain because I was having conversations with a parent today about the co, the pros and cons of giving a, you know, a tween or a teenager, a phone. Yeah. Often some of your ticks, tips and tricks around it. I am pro phones. With the right boundaries and, um, you know, things for homes because of the independence. Yeah. Um, my peers use them very well. They've had them for a long time. The, the fact that you can track everybody in my family has a tracker, so we all know where each other are. You know, the fact that you use it for your, you know, your bus, your independence, your money, and then using it for others. I do know it's scary. And I also do know that, you know, we don't have jurisdiction. Some of the times we try as much we can. Mm. I would just love to know because there is such a controversy there, um, in regard to like, how do we even us get the. Put it down, you know? Yeah, yeah. As you were talking, I was just thinking about the whole like, similarity between like technology and money. Like it's a neutral resource, it's just how we use it, whether it's gonna be for good or for bad. Um. And yeah, like technology. I mean, obviously the fact that we can talk here that people all over the world can hear us. Technology is great. You know, we wouldn't go back to, you know, having a pager or whatever, or, you know, the, the rotary dial phones or the dial up internet connection. I mean, I dunno whether you're old enough to remember that, but. You are that ringing tone and you're waiting and if somebody else is on the phone, you can't use it. Yeah. Yeah. So we don't wanna go back to that. But I do feel, and like part of my work with children and families is around like that reconnecting into nature because from such a early age, and look, I am, I'm gonna put my hand up and say that I do it as well. You know, it's like you're somewhere, the kids need to be quiet and you know, it's easy to just hand them a device or something. I've done it. I see other people do it. No shade there at all. Um, so we're really sort of very good at connecting our kids into technology. You know, getting on kids messenger, you know, talking to their relatives that might be overseas or, you know, all of those things. Learning stuff on YouTube. Fantastic. You know. So many good things, but there's a loss that's happening in our children, and there's been so many studies that have shown that kids are really suffering with their whole spatial awareness. Um, the fact that kids with A DHD are finding even more hard to concentrate at school or when they need to because they've been so. Condition to the pings, the notifications that dopamine bell ding, ding ding in their head that they can't like slow down and just be present in the moment. And I feel like this is where. When we were kids, and I know I'm a bit older than you, there wasn't any of that distraction. We did have to just go out on our bike or, you know, go for, walk the dog or play in the garden with a sprinkler or whatever it was. Make our own mud pies. Whereas kids, not all kids, 'cause I know that there's, there's parents that are still, you know, really into doing lots of nature stuff and connecting in with nature. For the most part, we've kind of lost that. And also there's the whole safety thing. We would be allowed to just roam, you know, s kids. So we were allowed to roam the streets, go out all day, have a picnic, like how many of us would feel comfortable letting our kids do that? Now we want 'em to have a phone so that we can track them so we know where they are and blah, blah, blah. And that's my, that was a bit, bit of my point. We knew all of our neighbors. Yes. Like I'm 44, so I don't know how much, um, old you are, but like that, you know, we, I grew up in the country. Every single neighbor knew the kids. You walk down this street down here, I tell you what, all the kid, all the neighbors won't know who my, my child is, you know? Yeah. But every single person in the community knew who you were, would keep an eye out. You were kind of protected. We had a better community. We were all talking. We weren't distracted. We are now. So not only are we distracted with our mobile device devices, yeah. We're so locked into a little world inside our four walls because we don't really go or think, we don't have time for anything else, and so that's why. It's even a thing now, like nature therapy is a thing that we've had to then reintroduce to people and our children like, Hey, it's out here. Like, what are you doing? Like, get out here. Yeah. Yeah. That's, you know, really crazy when you think about it. It's, it's if you had said that to us when we were kids, nature therapy. It wouldn't, it wasn't everything, it, everything created as such that we are so disconnected and isolated that we've had to reintroduce and reremember that some of the things that we have for healing, for regulation is all actually totally free. Yeah. Yeah, I know, I know. It's hard. It's hard to break the habit. I mean, I dunno about you, but you know, so I've done those whole little apps where you know, your phone turns off after so long or you have like timers and things and it's. Blooming hard. It's hard. We, and especially, you know, we're both business women. We have to be, have, you know, be connected to customers, clients, you know, potential leads, social media, like, you know, I'll see friends and they'll say, oh, I'm off of social media. I'm like, I can't, because that's. That's how I, you know, that's how I network. So, I mean, so we, I guess for us, we have to be on, and so it's, it's important for us to make that time to, you know, have our daily walks with the dog or sit outside in the garden without a phone. But for children, yeah, it's about. I mean, what we've just started in the last month is between six and eight o'clock. The internet's off. It's off for everybody. Although we can do a workaround if we need to, but it's off for the kids. I'm sorry guys. Sorry. Family. Uh, yeah. Yeah. I I love that. I love that. And I didn't even know those, so one of my other, um, coaches and friends, she has. And I don't know what internet company it is. I can find out for you guys if you want. Mm-hmm. But she has a work, like a workaround with her child's phone that she can walk it on and off. Mm-hmm. So I think, and so that, you know, going to school, coming home from school, and then there's moments of time, so it's actually, so then not only the internet at home, like, you know, but you can actually still have your child have a phone or a device or a, an iPad or something, but you can lock it so that it's, it's time to. Turn off now. Do something else. Yeah. Like bake a cake, do something. Yeah. A cake. I'd love that actually. You know, but have a conversation, you know, get out there, ride your bike. Do you know, do do the things that you, you wouldn't, um, get your homework done. I don't know. I hate homework. But, you know, all of those things, um, that you can do, like sit around the table and have dinner. I'm big hands up for that. Yeah. You know, a bit of a workaholic. And then with craziness, it's never. Hasn't been such a priority because I share care with their dad. So, you know, five o'clock dinner's not a, not a thing in our home, but I really enjoy it when I can, when I've got everybody around the table and I've cooked. I love that. Yeah. Making, making time for that. Um, so yeah, I would love to know what got you into this, Louise. Like how did you get into this and, and, you know, um, find this as your passion to bring, you know, healing and health and wellbeing to kids and families. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's funny because it's like, you know, when you are on your right sort of pathway when all of the, all of the ducks have lined up in a row and you can see like from years ago, like, oh, that, this, this, this. So, um, as I said, I became a mom really early. Um, I was only 21 when I. When I had my first, um, so now I'm a grandma. Um, but, so I had children early, but even before children, I was a kid's nanny. Um, so loved, you know, loved playing Lego, loved going out with them. So I was a kid's nanny. Um, my mom and dad had come to Australia. I was living in England. I was like in a bed. Just, I'm not doing that. I'm, I'm like, miss Independent. So I was 18, living in the UK on my own. Had my first job as a children's nanny. Live in. And it sort of, kind of snowballed from there. I went on, had kids, did mom's groups, did play groups, did the whole Sunday school groups, had all my kids, then went to work in, um, a school as a pastoral care worker. Um, and I was also running a mom's. Of preschoolers group in our local church. Um, so I was doing stuff with kids all the time, so I was kind of doing like what they call accidental counseling anyway. Um, and then I think I didn't start my degree until I was 43, so that shows you how old I am. Um, didn't start my degree till I was 43. Hey everyone, Nicole here, and I hope you're enjoying today's episode. I just wanna take a quick moment to talk to you all. If you're finding value in our conversations and loving the raw, honest dialogues we're having here, I've got a small favor to ask. This podcast is a passion project for me, and there's nothing I love more than bringing these stories and insights to you. So if you haven't already, would you consider subscribing to our show and leaving a review? It's completely free and it doesn't take much time, but it really helps us in two big ways. It's getting the podcast in front of more listeners, which keeps our community growing. It helps us attract more amazing guests, which means we give you more value in the episodes we bring to you. Just hit that subscribe button, drop us a review, and let's keep these conversations flowing. Now let's dive right back into our episode, and thanks so much of being a part of the Nicole's show. Oh, okay. Sorry about that. People. Um, probably my internet is off, which is, I'm, I'm on here. Find out. That's okay. It's time to time to be present. Technology. We shouldn't have been talking about it. It overheard us. Um, so no, so I got my degree, I started my degree at 43 and it was working just in counseling. So I've got my degree in counseling and it's a double degree counseling and coaching. Um, and so when I. You know, finished it. I spoke to my supervisor while I was looking for clients and I said, I really wanna work with kids. And she said, well, why, why aren't you then? And I'm like, oh.'cause I thought I had to do a different degree. Like, I'm so silly. Um, so no. So that's how I realized. So I did my, um, placement at a high school. Um, so I love that. Working with, um, the kids in a local, um, southern school in Adelaide and. Yeah, like really just started getting clients from there. And I just did a lot of stuff really organically. I didn't want to do an office. I mean, I was just starting out and I sort of thought about, well, how do I like to connect with people or how do people, how do I find, find people open up to me? And it was always out on a walk and I'm like. I wonder if that's a thing. I wonder if I could like cancel while I'm walking and I thought I had invented it. I thought I'd invented walk and talk therapy. And so when I looked it up and saw that it's a thing, I was like, damn, I thought I made that up. So that's where off the couch therapy came in. Um, because it's not in a room, not on a couch, you know, lying there with the raw shack saying, what can you see? Um, and so. It was all about really necessity because I didn't have a room and I knew that I liked walking with people and I knew I wanted to work with kids. And it's kind of like everything just fell into place. And obviously working with kids who have a DHD or autistic being outdoors is great for them. They can run off steam and scream and shout and climb tree, you know, and all of those things. Um, and I can just. Hope they don't fall, but you know, it's really good. It's also being to the side of someone or having something else that you're doing. Like it's confronting even for me, who's been in this world for a long time and done. Thousands of hours of my own coaching. You know, when I rock up to my own coaching, I'm like, oh shit. Like, so it's, and some days are worse than others, you know? I'm like, oh my God. And it's that, that point of being quite confronting of like, what is gonna come up? What do I need to work on today? But when it, you take that kind of. More casual role and especially I do love kids and teenagers that I tend to find they're much more open, but Absolutely. Yeah. No bullshit. Yeah. They're doing the therapy and they're doing the work in conversation. You know, it's US adults and like, well, what do you mean? Why do I have to do it that way? How's like, I feel so triggered. Yeah, yeah. I'm what? Yeah. And so with, you know, you just go for that. You just, you know, take them on that journey and they normally take, like, run along with it so. I do love off the couch therapy, and, and I think it's great you are using so many modalities in there. You know, you mentioned like basically play-based therapy in there. Um, primal Screams, you know, energetics Love it. Yeah. Manic. It's just, it's so, so good and so powerful to blend all of those things and plus the dog. Yeah. I, I use my dog today and my cats the, you know, and it was, it was literally, yeah, the best because. They're just love. They, you know, they're just, they're just love. They're, they add into all of that. Um, so. If you are happy to chat about other things, I would, I was saying to you before, like, how do we know each other? And we're saying like, my best mate, crystal, I love that. Um, like, you know, there's enough clients for all of us. She's a beautiful self-love coach. Um, but I'd love to talk to you about like the other communities that we know each other from if you're open, because I feel like we kind of touched onto a little portal there before. So Yeah. Where did you say we knew each other from? From pole dancing. Dancing. Oh, you're not a children's therapist and a pole dancer. How can that be? There you go. You said it. You hundred percent said it. Okay. I love this. I love this. And you know, I, I honestly didn't know we had that in common, but. Pole dancing. Um, I'm in the pole for fitness community one, so I'm down, um, you know, more northern area. Mm-hmm. And you know what women, it's so interesting that we have to have an identity. I'm a mom, I'm a children's coach. I'm a this and I'm putting for those, watching the YouTube, I'm putting my little fingers up for inverted commas. Yeah. Uh, we should be outta to be ill. Like why do we have to describe ourselves with a label? Like, um, you know, I'm eating adhd, I'm this, I'm that. I mean, I'm just a Nicole. And when one part of me has a wobble where I'm not feeling connected to myself in my energetics, yeah. In my feminine, in my relationship, or in my business, then everything has a wobble. And honestly, I believe that you need to find your outlet for your own stuff. You can do that thing. And so for me, I've been a pole dancer for. Jacob's nearly 15, so 15 years, you know? Yeah. And going back to that community, and it's such an inclusive community of mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Women and men, majority women that empower each other. It's so different to gym culture. Yeah. Oh my gosh, so much. And, you know, kids do it too, like what we're doing here Now, I promote all types of dancing, but you know, the majority that we do is, you know, is Pole Fitness. It's like it's dancing, it's competitions, it's, you know, it's. Classes and in the community that I'm flexibility. Mm. Acro you know, there's aerial stuff, you know, we have, yeah. And, and, but we have a lot of kids classes in our community and we have a lot of neurodivergence, so it's just, yes, we do aerial and, and they, they learn it. They move their bodies. I actually have a pole in my house and in my old. Home in my studio, I had two and I used to teach, you know, because the A DH, ADHD kids love it. They love swinging around on it and then work with the teenagers and the connection.'cause through that, you wouldn't think about it. But it is like another type of therapy because you're learning absolutely to love on your body. You're learning to control that, you know, pole dancing. Because you're using your own total fitness, you are only ever getting better than yourself. Yeah, I'd love to like, I love the fact that we're talking about this because I really had, for a while there, when I really rebranded my own coaching business about four years ago, I did take everything off. I took my photos off, I took women's, you know, empowerment stuff off. I took all my pole dancing stuff off because I thought, Ooh, that's not the brand inverted commas guys that I wanted to put out. And I didn't feel either capable or my own limiting belief that I was allowed. Yeah. And then a few years ago I was like, actually, fuck this. It's such a beautiful community and part of my growth and my healing that I put it out there. So how do you, how do you deal with that, by the way? Well, I know this is the, this is the thing. It is a conundrum because I do feel like the stigma. Around it is decreasing. Um, you know, the older generation are always gonna look at it as, you know, a sex worker will have that kind of like vibe on it. Whereas I feel that younger people, especially now, there's so much acro silks Lara that's out there. A lot of like young people just see it as another apparat. So don't see it as a. Like my kids, they would have no idea about strip club. Well, probably the older ones do, but you know, the younger ones, they would have no idea what even goes on in a strip club. So to them, mom's a pole dancer and she wears funny shoes, and that's kind of that. But you know, the fact that I. I do censor myself with children. I call it dance classes, but with the parents. I say I do pole dancing, so that's probably just me censoring myself so that I don't have to have any awkward conversations. So that really don't feel like they need to know exactly what I do. But I've got a client who does Lara and Silks, and I'll say to her, I do pole. And she just goes, oh cool. Oh, that's cool. You know? So I kind of just. Probably just, you know, play it by ear really. But the parents all are really supportive. And I'll show them my shoes 'cause they're in the back of the car with all the rest of my stuff. Like the, the Lego and the, the, the UNO cards and things. Oh, here's my pole shoes, big eight inch heels. Um, you know, so like you said, it is part of us. And, um. Yeah, I love it and it is it such a, an inclusive community and I reckon, I reckon 80 to 90% of pole dancer are neurodivergent. Surely. Do you reckon? A hundred percent. I really, I think because we found a community where we felt. Included, you know? Yeah. I found that, um, sports, like actual, um, like netball, football, blah, blah, blah. I never got picked. I didn't really fit in. I couldn't quite make it comprehend it. I'm very much, I liked karate before this and now like it's, 'cause it's kind of an individual thing, but you are in Yes. Community. Mm-hmm. Because of the community that it is, like, I think everybody is a little unique and we're just so. It it because of what Maybe the scrutiny or maybe the opinions. Like we all have to not judge each other. Like we're pushed in there and so it makes it even more loving, perhaps. I don't dunno. Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, I don't find, I dunno about your plates, but I know at the Pul boutique, like there's no, like that sort of snarky competition, like everyone is from like the beginners to the advanced threes. Everyone is so supportive. You know, you get a move and the whole class is like, that's so good. And like, you know, so like I'll get a move and I'll have like a 20-year-old go, oh my gosh, that's so good. And you know, then I've got like someone who's 60 in the class doing it. Like, it's just, it blows your mind. Like what other sport has that whole range of ages, sizes, abilities. Yeah. They don't. And I just, yeah, that's what I find though, because we're, you know, I don't know. We, we are, it's just, it's a really, really supportive community. I don't find that at the gym, you know, you don't get a extra work and everyone's going, oh my God. Like, well done. Like, it's just a, a uniqueness where people do, um, do care. So I love that. It's that we can talk about, because I really feel like sometimes in this, and this is what the Nicole show's about, it's not about me, it's about taking that mask off and talking about all parts of our lives. But for some reason. It doesn't matter who we are, whether you're a mom listening to this, whether you're a pole dancer, a coach or not, whatever, like there's a part of you that you sometimes feel like you can't share. As a part, you're like, oof. But that part makes you, you and as a mom, like God, it's so important to still find your, your thing. Whether it is putting your pole dancing shoes on and feeling super sexy and or strong or fit or you know, going to the gym, whatever that is for you or, you know, art therapy or time to yourself, or you have to refin that again. Yeah. It's so, so important as we, you know, re-identify, have children and the rest, and I, for me, I found the times when I was being honest with myself about my passions or my love is when you know, I feel not good enough or not worthy or like the depression or the other things do kick in. And so, yeah, it's very liberating. And I guess for me it's just that message of saying, Hey guys, we are the permission slip for you to try. Be, do anything that you want regardless of your age, gender, um, shape, size, you know, your label. Like you, this is the permission slip to be whoever you want at any age, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and that's what we want to instill in, in the kids that we coach and, you know, talk to, isn't it, you know, to be yourself, to not put up that mass and not be fake. Um, and that's why, you know, I say that nature's a great place to do that.'cause it doesn't judge, it doesn't judge whether, you know, you've got brand new Air Jordans on, or you're barefoot or, you know, there's, there's no judgment in nature as well, so. Yeah, that's a good point. You know, to not have that mask and then to model that to our, you know, clients, to our children, to the people around us. Yeah. And you know what, if, you know, if we're not the right person with a cup of tea for you, that's okay as well. You know, and that's what, that was my, absolutely. That was my biggest fear. And then when I got confident enough to be like, actually it is okay. You know, I think that was, that was my biggest thing when I was a, a child and, and learning that I was A DHD at only last year. I really unpack like how much I must, and it was such a behavior from. Childhood from primary school to fitting feel like I did and to mimic or to pretend or to, you know, to copy. And every time that I wasn't being organically myself, I really didn't feel right inside. And so now trying to face that fear and being confident enough to just being a, like that was my biggest thing. I wanna know that I can hold myself to just be me, regardless of somebody's gonna. Be my friend or not, or my client or not. That was the biggest piece. And if I can teach that to kids now, you know, as they go through life, help them find their confidence being themselves, help them, they, they're their thing. And it's just not, unfortunately, in my perspective and my belief, that's not a core component in education. And that's what missing. Yeah. If they're not regulated and feeling safe within their humanness. Then they can't sit down. Mm-hmm. Rest. So yeah, me was like bringing that to, to them. Like, how do you feel like, you know, and the rest. So you only found out a year ago that you, um, were had a DHD? Yes. So, and, and I only found out maybe two years ago as well. Did you feel like so much stuff, like just fell into place as in you went Oh, that's why I always felt like a chameleon. I always felt like I'd had to change with who I was with at school. Like, I couldn't, I didn't know. Who I actually was. And I think that's probably, I still carry that with me. And it probably actually is good because I means I can empathize with people and I, I can sort of come alongside and sort of morph into them in a way. But do you find the same thing? So I, beautiful social media, like, um. Started realizing from like TikTok and reels and then people, other people like talking to me and another friend of mine got diagnosed and I actually tried the, the medication before I was diagnosed. I was like, oh, I wanna see if this does anything. And it did. And so then I went obviously to my doctor and went through the process to get diagnosed, but it kind of started making sense. Now, I was also an ice addict in my twenties, like late twenties to thirties. So I was self-medicating and you know, absolutely. And that's why I'm here now doing the things that I did. I didn't realize. So what was going on? The funny thing was. Even though I kind of knew for probably a couple of years before I actually went and got diagnosed, I would self say I was a DHD 'cause I, the amount of thoughts and the energy that I have and the, you know, gets more pronounced as you get a little older as well. Yeah. For me, the process wasn't that good. Actually, the actual psychiatrist, it wasn't that good. I didn't get a lot of help, but. What it did was like I had to then go back down my timeline and be like, oh my God, that's why I did that there. That's why I behave like that. So for me, it was a little therapy in itself, but it was actually heartbreaking because. It did bring up a core wound of, I'm not good enough, I'm broken. So even though, even though I already had self-diagnosed, even though I knew at my, so I was a DHD, when I got that thing, I was like, ah, there is something wrong with me. And it felt really like it did take me a little bit to process that sadness. I was with one of my best mates, who's a beautiful coach as well, and and he's like, what do you need from me? And I said, I just need you to love me. He's like, yeah, but I am and I already am. I said, yeah, I know. Yeah, but I need you to love me more. Like I need you to see acceptance. Yeah. Yeah. That acceptance piece. But I think it was coming to accept myself and now rewind and just be who I needed to be for that little girl that was kind of struggling. Her mindset. So it was quite a process and I think that the reason that I also put myself through that process, I don't need the medication. I use it intuitively. I use other things for, for, for calming my nervous system down, but I also did it as an experiment because I want to know what my children that I'm coaching are going through. I wanna know how they feel when they went through their diagnosis. I want to then explain to adults that are going through it. I personally believe, regardless of whether you're diagnosed or not. Try the medication before you give it to your child. I don't care what medication you're getting or what the, try it. Mm. That's pretty interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Something similar, whether you've got a neuro device brand or not. Still try it. Like you're give, you're trusting this doctor so much to give it. Some of them made me feel worse and made me feel mm-hmm. More sketchy and shaky and disgusting. Mm-hmm. That worked really well and I mean, I know that every child will be different, but at least I have the. Physical experience and knowledge to unpack that now? Yeah. The person through that and asking them the questions like, what did it mean for you when this doctor or this piece of paper or this label came out? Because I don't, for me personally. Look at that or listen to that or have that When I'm working with the client and they pick me as their person, I intuitively work with what they need. Like it doesn't matter about their label, their thing. So I went through that myself to then know that the label didn't mean anything. So I guess it, for me, lived experience is the best experience. I'm one of those people. Whether that's an A DHD trait or not try anything once kind of thing. But because that I do have way more empathy and understanding for the processes through, and yeah, it might be something completely, a completely different process for somebody else. That's just my experience. But I also myself through it because I wanted to know what it felt like. That's really interesting you should say that because, um, my son was diagnosed probably three or four years before I was, and we tried him, first of all, on Ritalin. Mm-hmm. And he was just a zombie and he was probably about seven years of age at the time. And he would come home from school and just. Say things like, I don't wanna live anymore. I hate my life. I don't want to eat. Eat in something fun and I don't wanna do it. So obviously as soon as that happened, we took him off of it straight away. We managed to find something that was working and the first day he had dexamphetamine, he. He took it. And obviously I kept him home'cause I wanted to watch him.'cause obviously he'd had such a bad, bad time with um, Ritalin. And I went into his room and I said, how are you feeling? And he said, the buzzing stopped in my brain. And I went, oh. And then it was funny because when, when I got diagnosed, the first thing they put me on was Ritalin, because I think there might have been a shortage of Dxi at the time. I don't know. But they put me on Ritalin and I was on it for a week and I, I did not put two and two together. Like sometimes we are so like blind to our own stuff going on. And I was in a supervision call and I was crying and I was like, I don't feel like I'm good enough as a counselor.'cause you know, we all have days like that. But it wasn't, it wasn't. It wasn't normal for me to be like that. And my supervisor said to me, you know, what's going on for you? What's happening? And I said, I went on, I went on Ritalin two weeks ago and I stopped myself and I went, oh, this is how my son must have felt. I felt not enough imposter syndrome to the max, like I was a. Piece of shit person, you know that I wasn't good enough. And so obviously I went, okay, now I know exactly what he went through. So, yeah. And that I wasn't even doing it to try. And then Dex is works great, but I'm like you. I don't take them every day. If, if I haven't got anything I need to do, I have a relax and relax my brain and I just let myself get out. Just let myself go. Woo. I can day like one a day and that's enough for me. I know some, another friend of mine, yeah. Six a day like, but you know, six, you six. Yeah. Six 10 like, but she is also six foot as well and a bigger person. Okay. Yeah. You know, each to their own, like whatever, whatever works for your, for your works. Yeah. I tried the slow release something else and it made me feel like going back to my drug dealer, it was so bad and I know that I, you know, I've got an amphetamine thing, so that's why I'm also very careful with it. Yeah. But the first time I took it. For the decks. And I was like looking like in for those watching, like I'm like looking at the top of my forehead trying to like see, and I was like, to my wife, is this what you feel? Because I've always said, we've been together nearly, nearly 11 years. But I'm like, what are you thinking? And she's like, nothing. I'm like, you can't think nothing. And I've just always said that. And then because she's also had a. Different childhood to me. And so I feel like sometimes she just like disassociates, I was like, you can't think nothing. Like, what are you doing? And then I'd be like, whatcha are thinking? And then the, the damp, like one day I was just looking for my thought. I was like, oh my God. I was like, is this what you mean when you're thinking nothing? There's, there literally is nothing in there. She's like, yeah. I was like, okay, okay. This makes sense now. This makes sense. Yeah. So yeah, I'm a believer of intuition with knowledge, with research, and I love the Western and the Eastern Philosophies. Blended book. Yeah. Do the book. Yeah. You know, there's no point just, you know, solely relying on like, you know, teachers say, your kid is naughty, medicate them. Well, yes. And if that's, and yes. And yeah. And what are you doing in your classroom to help my child regulate? Do you have break? Do you let them run around? Do you, yes. Advocate, not my kid is naughty. Medicate them. So, yes. Yes. And, and parents listening to this as well. Yeah. Ask any questions. But these are just my experiences to, to, to blend both. Like, don't think, yeah, the doctors are gospel. I had another friend of mine say about their child. It was going perfectly well, a DHD uh, daughter going through and then was doing really well on the medication that was. And then, um, the dad said that they came back from an appointment and, um, I think the other, you know, the other partner, um, had just said, oh yeah, the doctor said they're doing really fine, but we are gonna up it. And the tablet was, but why? They're doing fine. Why? So yeah, question thing, be super curious. Um, take them yourself if you feel so inclined. Um, so you know what your child is going through. Um, but yeah, like for me, it's working out that right blend and mm. Yeah, we can hang our hat on just medication. Like there's so many other things. I, I love the whole holistic approach. Like before we tried medication, we went to a naturopath and we were trying to do the whole, you know, gluten-free gaps diet type thing. And look if you can do that fair play to you, like I just did not have the mental capacity to, to, to do it hardcore, like. I have a DHD, like I haven't got the time or the energy to do that. Um, so I know that there are things to help and you know, if I give him sugar, he's gonna ping. Um, you know, there's still all of those sort of just. Normal regulation, common sense type things, but go outside and run around for 10 minutes. Go walk the dog, go and, you know, climb a tree. Do something. Yeah. Percent. A hundred percent. I had a kid the other day just on a Zoom, and the kid was very, um, active in their body and I was like, all right, we're not gonna be able to do this. And it was a first meet and greet. I was like, can you do some star jump for me? Can you copy me? And I moved the camera and I started doing pushups with him. And, you know. It is, it's so important that, you know, for me, A DHD, it is the key is move the body. Like you have to get it out. You have to shake it out, move it out, dance, party it out, you know, at some point. So yeah, that's why it's so frustrating. I'm sorry, I know we're probably gonna go over. When schools, 'cause this is my son, like he's nearly 13, he gets lunchtime reflections for, you know, not bringing his book in. All the executive function stuff that, you know, a DHD autistic kids, you know, struggle with. And I try and help him as best, but they happen. Shit happens. Um, so you know, he'll have a lunchtime reflection. They keep him in, he needs to move, he needs to get out and run around. It is just counterproductive. I do feel like as moms, and I'm talking as a mom now, you know, we do have to advocate for our kids and, and say to the teachers like, what are you doing? Um, you know, you're just gonna cause a time bomb. A hundred percent. And that's where, you know, um, advocacy is key. Like when we're, you know, being, you know, told as moms that our kids are naughty or they're not normal, or whatever it is to do that, there's no real help. Like teachers also are not a lot of 'em, they, they are changing the legislation as well, by the way, disability legislation to help get our teachers a lot more disability training in their education. Yeah. For those mindsets, but they're not. Counselors, coaches, doctors, rest, so they've only got the limited resources that they have, and some are amazing. I know some are not. However, advocate for your children and absolutely their education is actually there to provide. Education to every single child under the age of 16 for free. If you're going to a public school, and that is their job. They actually can't send home. They have to provide the tools and resources and accesses to your child no matter what the disability, what the, so if they continue sending them home or doing these different things or putting them in time out. So you have to find that strength, which I know is super hard sometimes to advocate. What are you doing for my child? And if that was my child, I would be sending a letter saying, you actually have no legal right to keep my child in inside. No, he needs to run it out. And I would get an OT in doctor or a doctor's note, and I would advocate, advocate for my son about different, um, uh, uniforms because it would distract him so much in his sensory, like the mm-hmm. Formal uniform was not good for him. And he would, he got to the point where he just started wearing sports uniform every day and he was getting in trouble for it. So I got the OT to write a letter and. Yeah, good for you and advocate. That's good. And advocate for that. Um, of course there still can be negotiation on the boundaries and things and, and you know, disciplinary or whatever it is, but it can't be, you cannot keep my son in at lunchtime. You can do whatever else. You can have the other things if you really wanted to concentrate. So yeah, I think that's a big thing because for some reason. As parents, if you're going and if you're new to parenting or whatever else, we pedestal teachers in education and it's just not the case. You know your, it's true. Keep asking questions and keep, you know, finding the right supports 'cause that's gonna change as they grow up. Mm-hmm. Have different interested. So, you know, it might not be right for one of us, but if you did contact us, we also do know. Hundreds more people in these areas of mentor supports. Of coaches, yeah. You know, support workers and the rest. So I think that's the biggest thing. Just keep asking questions, so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love this conversation. I could keep going, but I do have to, uh, log on another time, another time I can for part two for sure. Um, I absolutely have loved this. We'll pop all, um, Louise's details underneath for Yeah. Therapy and, um, yeah, it was beautiful talking to you. Thank you so much. It's so, it's so nice to talk to somebody who's like a mom who's not neurodivergent, who does pole, who works for kids. It's like, who loves pink? It's like. We're, we're sisters other, you know, that's it. We're just, we're just peas in a pod, which I love. Yeah. Very good. So good, beautiful connection. Thank you for doing the work. Like seriously, we, we need more people out there serving others, so thank you. Thank you. It's, it's so important. Yeah. Have a beautiful, blessed tonight and we will chat super soon. Thank you.