Lens of Leadership: A Ted Lasso Rewatch Podcast

Accountability | S1E4

• Nick • Season 1 • Episode 4

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In this episode of Lens of Leadership, Marnie and Nick tackle the topic of accountability. Whether they're discussing the tricky art of balancing authority with humility in parenting or the critical role of credibility in business, the connections to Ted Lasso and a life of leadership ring true. Discover how embracing accountability can build stronger relationships, empower teams, and foster innovation.

From setting clear expectations to utilizing data and KPIs, we dissect the strategies that can turn missteps into opportunities for growth. The conversation doesn't shy away from the tough questions either, such as handling those who dodge their responsibilities. 

Be sure to share your comments on how to handle working with the Rupert Mannions of the world. Barbecue Sauce!

Marnie:

Welcome to Lens of Leadership, our Ted Lasso rewatch podcast. Before we dive into this episode's leadership lessons, let's watch a quick recap.

The Show:

Season one, episode four starts as tempers flare at halftime. Afc Richmond is losing badly. In the locker room Roy Kent defends Sam from Jamie. Ted has Beard explain that his rule of fight club is no fight club. Meanwhile, rebecca and Higgins are planning the charity gala, trying to decide who will sit at the boring table. Out on the pitch it is clear there's a team divided. Ted decides to resolve the issue by asking Rebecca to sit with Roy and Jamie at the gala. He helps her pick a dress and learns that the musical guest for the evening canceled. Jamie has his own ideas about fashion and branding. Ted buys Nate a suit about fashion and branding. Ted buys Nate a suit.

The Show:

Keely helps Rebecca on the red carpet. Beard and Jane talk chess. Ted tries to get Roy and Jamie to open up about their issues. He's looking for mutual respect and common ground. Rupert surprises Rebecca by showing up at the auction. Ted suspects Rupert canceled the musical guest and takes Higgins to find a solution. Meanwhile Rupert auctions off a date with Jamie, which Keely outbids out of jealousy, and later bids for Roy to make Jamie jealous. Ted finds Rebecca crying. Roy and Jamie chat over a beer. Rebecca thanks Keely for helping her on the red carpet and makes her think about accountability. So Keely breaks up with Jamie. Ted saves the gala by bringing the busker, who is really Cam Cole, as the music guest, as everyone says goodnight. Ted tells Rebecca people see who Rupert really is. Beard blew it, with Jane taking the game over the dame. Rupert leaves with a young woman.

Nick:

Keely and Rebecca decide to go get drunk and episode four ends with them, bonding over a couple of bottles of champagne on a sulky ride through London. Welcome back everyone. I'm Nick Coniglio.

Marnie:

And I'm Marnie Stockman, and this is Lens of Leadership, a Ted Lasso rewatch podcast. We are the authors of Lead it Like Lasso, a leadership book for life, your life.

Nick:

Or, as we like to say, the ultimate cheat code to help you level up in life. For those of you who are joining us for the first time, we believe this ain't your grandmother's rewatch podcast. We take a different approach by deep diving into some leadership principles drawn from the episode.

Marnie:

And with today's episode for the children, we're going to dive into accountability.

Nick:

I guess let's reset the scene a little bit and kind of recap what happened in the show. You good with doing that, marnie? Yeah, yeah, let's do it. Okay. So let's rewind a little bit. At some point during the gala, rebecca informs Keeley that Jamie's brought a second date to the gala. Yeah, not good.

Marnie:

Bad form Jamie.

Nick:

Bad form. And then Rebecca and Keeley are in the ladies' room and they're talking about dating footballers and the subject of accountability comes up. And then Rebecca kind of dwells on her past with Rupert and she says everybody makes mistakes, but I was married to a man for 12 years and he never, never once, took responsibility for any single one of them. And I think that that got Keely thinking, don't you think?

Marnie:

Oh, absolutely, and you can tell because of the way she went right back out and handled herself with the auction.

Nick:

Right, exactly Right. So the next step is Keeley. She's going to try to make Jamie jealous, feel a little bit like like she was feeling yeah, and she bids on Roy. She gets into that bidding war which she does not win. She gets into that bidding war which she does not win. But she definitely got her point across to Jamie because later on in the show Jamie walks up to her you know, I don't know if she got her point across because he's a little miffed, you know he can tell that that she's, she's, she's a little perturbed about something. And he just goes up to her and says you know, I'm sorry, babe, sorry babe about something. And he just goes up to her and says you know, I'm sorry, babe, sorry babe, and um, and then keely, keely, turns around and says do you know what?

Marnie:

you're even sorry for, jamie, yeah, yeah and he says you ask me that all the time, not like this is new, oh interesting. Okay, this is not the first we've seen of this, apparently, apparently 100%.

Nick:

And Roy immediately walks up perfect timing and he scolds Keely for bidding on him. And I think what did he say? You know, please stop using me as a prop in your game. To get back at Jamie I'm paraphrasing there or something. But he's honest. And he said you made me feel like an idiot. And what does Keeeley do?

Marnie:

Apologizes earnestly, unlike Jamie Yep, and Roy appreciates that. I think he can tell it's earnest. He gives Roy a nod which is, I think, forgiveness.

Nick:

Sorry, babe.

The Show:

Do you know what you're sorry for, Jamie?

Nick:

You always ask me that hey do me a favour Don't use me as a prop in your little fights. Make me feel like an idiot. I'm sorry I shouldn't have done that. Thanks, no more Absolutely.

Marnie:

Yeah, no more Absolutely.

Nick:

Yeah, and Jamie's like why are you saying that they?

Marnie:

have to say sorry to him. Why are you apologizing to him for yeah?

Nick:

And then, keely, drops the line of the show, at least through a leadership lens. Being accountable matters, jamie. Let me ask you, marnie, me Let me ask you, marnie, in your world or in the world of those around you, do, you think accountability is a dirty word.

Marnie:

So I personally don't, but I was an accountability coordinator, so I have a whole different thought around accountability. But let me tell you what happened when I was with my friend the other afternoon and I told her that we were going to talk about accountability and when I said the word accountability, she was visibly shaken and said, ooh, that brings up anxiety and shame. And I didn't know. I felt that way about that word until you just said it. So and I thought, Ooh, there's something to unpack there. She said, yeah, that is really reminding me of like some childhood issues of where she would get punished for whatever, whatever components she was thinking of. We didn't dive into that, Although she said I am going to tell my therapist about how I reacted to the word accountability and dig into that a bit. So I think some people see it as harsh consequences as opposed to personal responsibility. So that was her reaction. I have a very different take on it myself. How?

Nick:

about you. Well, I have a reaction to that. I mean, as you say that out loud, I think. However, whatever culture that she was involved with, really that made her feel that way. I think what's interesting about that is that In my past, when I've been working within cultures of accountability, one of the things that I loved about it is that you felt freedom to make mistakes and learn from it, and in areas where I didn't feel that accountability and people made excuses about everything, that's when I felt a lot of blame and punishment when making mistakes. So let's take a deeper dive into that later.

Nick:

I find that very interesting. I mean, you asked me what I think about accountability. I think this is going to be a little bit harsh, but I boil it down to I think people who want to get better and improve and level up welcome accountability and, conversely, people who don't want to get better and don't want to improve really don't want accountability. I say that is that might be harsh based on the experience that you just described, because I don't think the person you were talking to doesn't want to improve, but I really do think we're all about leveling up. Our book is becoming the best version of yourselves and I think one of the most critical pieces of that is welcoming accountability into your lives.

Marnie:

Yeah, so it's interesting you say that I was, I've been an athlete my whole life and when I you said some things that very much made me think of challenges in terms of what coaches would throw down the gauntlet Right, and I always like I'll play any game heck, yahtzee, I'm ball, I'll play right.

Marnie:

Whatever it is, I like the challenge. But I have also thought many times at work where someone would kind of throw down a gauntlet and I remember thinking like I'm not scared of a challenge, I like that. That pushes me to be better. So that's more along the lines of what I think of with accountability and hopefully this doesn't come out wrong, but my mom would. She will say, if you call her right now, that my one of my superpowers is that I have the self-discipline to to follow through on something. So I do. I see accountability as sort of a game and a challenge, and so I did look at it very differently than my friend who, for the record, is absolutely about self-improvement and and leveling up and she was really going to actually go work on her thoughts around that word, so she could use that word differently, because that definitely hit her.

Nick:

Yeah, yeah, I think with accountability I mean we're all humans, right, humans right, and it's so easy for us, especially when you talk about it from the perspective of personal accountability. It's so easy for us not to do things if nobody else is going to find out about it, right, and there's no immediate outcome. You know you want to lose weight or you want to start exercising. How easy is it to just take a day off. You know, eat that chocolate cream pie for dessert that you, you really know you shouldn't be doing.

Nick:

But I know between you and I we have joked around it. The fact of having an accountability, accountability buddy, yeah Right, absolutely. Quite often in in seeking out, you know, external checks, right To hold yourself accountable to something. Is that something I know? You, we, you and I have done it to help hold ourselves accountable in growing a business and building a business, but is that something that you've always sought out? You know, as far as you can remember.

Marnie:

It's funny you say that because I can remember a chart paper that I made in high school with exercises that I was going to write down. So I think for sure accountability has always been a piece. It wasn't until I was older where I trusted someone else to be that accountability buddy for me. So I think that's interesting. You know, I say the quote all the time. What is inspected is what is expected. So when you make a statement around your goal out loud, you're putting it out there in the world and for myself it was a while before I could trust to say that to someone else.

Marnie:

I have seen some things around New Year's resolutions that sometimes people saying the goal makes it feel like that's a step toward their accomplishment and so it actually holds them back. So there are kind of two types of people around setting that goal the ones that will take the next action versus just saying it. And we say all the time like a dream without a plan is just, you know, throwing things to the wind. Or a goal without a plan is just a dream, or whatever the statement is of, accountability is you need to trust the person to then hold you to it, as opposed to just a yes man going like all right, good for you, that's going to happen. Nope, that's not what I needed. I needed somebody to bust my chops if I wasn't doing it.

Nick:

Yeah, and I will. For those that don't know, I don't have near the self-discipline that you have in terms of of really holding myself to account on things.

Nick:

So I, I, I, I think in general I'm more of the norm as, as opposed to you being part of the exception, where you're that rare bird that can really hold yourself accountable to things. Um, and I, I, I guess I'm just saying that for those out there that are like me, having somebody you can trust and talk to whether it's a spouse, a friend, a co-worker to really, like you said, speak out loud what you want to be held accountable to and have them really hold you to account and talk to you about. You know where you stand in terms of progress, of doing the things you said you would do. I think that's really a benefit to a lot of people. I do have another question. We often talk about leadership and that that's something that you can learn and you can grow into, and accountability is a the lesson of accountability. I'm curious how you go about teaching accountability.

Marnie:

So it's interesting that you say parenting, because the first thing that comes to mind is you know, my parents each had sort of a few stock phrases.

Marnie:

We all have them as parents, right? And my dad's was don't be sorry, be right. Like who likes to have to apologize Not many folks. He said, well, you're not going to have to say you're sorry if you do the right thing. And I would tell my students that when I was teaching, they're like oh, I'm a stockman, it's harsh, like that is a rough way. You're not even allowed to be wrong, and there are a whole different issue set of issues with that. But, um, well, there's one way to do it right, like if you just don't, you won't ever have to apologize, you just do the right thing.

Marnie:

But you know, when I hear that question, how do you teach accountability? Um, everybody plays a role in the situation that they're in, and I taught pre-calculus that I mean, I taught a lot of things, but that was the predominant course that I taught and that's not easy for a lot of students and a lot of students it's the first time where they run into a struggle, right? So it's the first time math really got hard for them and they would come in. I know it was a hard lesson, I know they struggle with their homework and I would say you are not allowed to say I didn't get it. And you are not allowed to say I didn't get it. And when I ask you, what didn't you get, you're not allowed to say any of it, because that's not true. You did something right. Don't just come to me like you sat there staring at the screen blankly for an hour, because that's not true. You played a part in this too. So let's talk about where you are so that you can work your way through the problem. So I think some of teaching accountability is to help people understand the role they play in where they are.

Marnie:

Now it might be that I don't have enough background in order to be able to do this next part of it. You have to own that, because I can't guess that right. And it's interesting. I did that an activity with this early on in the school year one year and I didn't. I didn't let. The kids knew I knew this, but when I started polling the class on who knew which content, I realized that one of them had had a teacher that I knew was weak in algebra two and I had to go back and reteach some of the early content. Again wasn't their fault, but they had to own up to the fact that they didn't know it so I could help identify it. So that's the first piece of teaching. Accountability at a real basic level is being able to verbalize where you are in the issue so that you can work to solve it. Does that make sense?

Nick:

Yeah, absolutely so. What you're telling me, I think, is that everything I did to try to teach accountability to my son is probably incorrect.

Marnie:

I know your son, I disagree.

Nick:

And when you know, it's probably to this day. When I asked him you know, not 45 minutes ago where he was with meeting with his advisor for his internship, he came up with 46 excuses.

The Show:

He wasn't held accountable.

Nick:

But I guess I think one thing I learned. You know I can't and I can't say I was successful with it, but um, I think I had moderate degrees of success with my child, much more success in the in in the business space, how I typically tried to build a culture of accountability, uh was really admitting mistakes, I think. I think that's a that's a powerful lesson and probably something I didn't do enough as a father, because sometimes it's hard right, they idolize you and they think you're always right and you really don't want to sometimes admit that you're wrong because they put you on this pedestal.

Nick:

You need them to believe you're right, so that put you on this this pedestal when you want that.

Marnie:

You need them to believe you're right, so that when you say don't run into traffic, they don't run into traffic. So you set yourself up because, like you're looking out for their safety right, but at the same time you you need to show them that you made mistakes. It's not easy.

Nick:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean as simple as hey dad. You know we were supposed to go to the ball fields today at two o'clock, Right, and you didn't get home from work till 430. And that was my bad, that was my mistake. I should own up to it. I know that's a relatively simple example.

Marnie:

But happens all the time.

Nick:

And what do I need to do about that? I need to learn from it the next time. Right, make a call if I'm going to be late Again. That's in the world of parenting at home. It's the same concept, but probably completely different scenarios when you're in an office environment, and that's where I was thinking we can go next, because we talk a lot clearly about leadership and so much of it pertains to an office environment. An office doesn't have to be a traditional office. It could be a team, you know, it could be a school district or it could be a traditional business office.

Marnie:

So, nick, what do you think of in terms of accountability in business?

Nick:

The first word that comes to mind is trust. Well, it's two words, I guess Trust and credibility. I think owning decisions, admitting to mistakes and addressing them, it really shows that you're reliable and trustworthy, and I think every effective team that I've ever worked on in the business world has had trust. The trust leads to safe spaces, which can lead to innovation, people feeling free to participate, but we often talk about counterexamples.

Nick:

We're the opposite of concepts, and when I think of accountability, I think of somebody I worked with who was a peer of mine, and we would meet on a biweekly basis and we'd all be responsible for goals that were jointly established, set, and we'd all be responsible for reporting and tracking on where we are with those goals, based on the timelines that we committed to, basically the timelines that we were being held accountable to. And it would seem, meeting after meeting after meeting, that this individual would always have an excuse for not meeting his goals right. I mean, these were assigned to him to take care of and at some point, what ends up happening to me is that you completely lose that trust within the team and it starts breaking everything down.

The Show:

It looks like we still got ourselves a team divided here.

Nick:

Which is frustrating to work in. I'm sure you've worked in an environment like that. You've worked with me. I'm probably one of those people.

Nick:

You're not one of those people, but I am getting a little flinchy on some memories when you tell that story, as it does sound very of accountability. Leaders or the team in general establishes patterns of behavior and it encourages everyone else to take responsibility for their actions, as everyone understands the expectations on delivering commitments and then suddenly mistakes become opportunities rather than blame and punishment right. It promotes innovation. People feel safe to take calculated risk. But the whole understanding expectations to me is such a big thing.

Nick:

I subscribe I think you subscribe to Luca Rossi's Substack where he's all about engineering performance and he just did this big survey around engineering productivity and such a big part of that was around expectations and how they may shift and priorities and stuff like that, stuff like that. The whole notion of building a culture of accountability really helps to normalize what expectations are. I think without accountability, you know, expectations really are useless.

Marnie:

Well and you know you mentioned a counterexample is always a good example right of what not to do. There's this pendulum of I can't make any mistakes, so I hide everything and I don't appear to be accountable. Right, I don't really address it. The other side is really also not accountability when you're just allowed to make mistakes and there's no recourse for that. We're not saying you should be punished in a violent, abusive, shameful blame game sort of way, but it just can't pass of like nope, didn't. To your point on the story right, didn't get done last week, it also didn't get done this week. That's not okay either. Like that, that is not. That is not being a good leader. By letting mistakes happen without that is not being a good leader. By letting mistakes happen without, again, without any recourse.

The Show:

So I think, what we're saying is mistakes are critical. Well, let me ask you something. What were you like when you were 23, playing in this league, making all that money? Neil Bates Prima.

Nick:

Donna, bring me down it In understanding and in the accountability process. Right, but mistakes need to be converted to opportunities. What you do with that?

Marnie:

Yes absolutely.

Marnie:

So it's interesting. I mentioned I was the accountability coordinator for my school system and that, in a school system, is all about the data to show student improvement, right. And in a business, in terms of that, is the KPIs that you're working toward, et cetera, right, and so it's all data related. It's often what I think of in terms of accountability, if we're not talking about how many weeks I'm picking up that morning. And as I say about data and you and I've talked about this plenty of times before and as I say about data, and you and I have talked about this plenty of times before, if you're collecting data and not acting on it, you are wasting your time. And what are you doing collecting that data? So I would say the same around mistakes, mistakes, a data point that you should then take action on. Do more of this, do less of this, try something else Right, but it is a data point, and if you're just collecting them and not doing anything with them, that's trouble.

Nick:

Yeah, and taking action on them is it's kind of a, it's kind of a cycle, right, and you end up making decisions. You know it's easier to make decisions and stand behind those decisions If, if the outcomes of those decisions are mean something, right, I, I think, I think if, if the outcomes of decisions are meaningless, if there's, there's no accountability at all yeah then those decisions aren't well considered at all well, it would be just like keely, constantly forgiving Jamie, who doesn't even know why he's apologizing, right. Exactly.

Marnie:

It's like she's just going to perpetually let this happen. He's never going to learn to be accountable for himself because she's just going to let him off the hook all the time. She's always going to be irritated. It causes that clash, right? Because it just doesn't feel good. Nothing is ever changing.

Nick:

You know, it makes me think, going back to the show and Jamie and apologize he really doesn't get apologies at all because I don't know if you remember the very opening scene of that show. Oh yeah, sam, they're entering the locker room after the loss and Sam apologizes to Jamie for for a bad cross or something to that effect. Yeah, and jamie just goes on a rant. We won't go into what exactly that rant is please let's not, jamie.

The Show:

Jamie, sorry, I didn't put that cross where you wanted it.

Marnie:

Ah, forget it, mate, hey yeah, jamie, jamie, uh, at this point in the series is is quite toxic and is the exact person that I don't want to have any association with well, it would make you think that maybe I was having lunch with jamie tart when I mentioned accountability and blame and shame and anxiety based on his reaction, I sadly I was not go to bed this is good stuff.

Nick:

Okay, switching gears just a little bit, and I'm actually going to circle back to where we started. Um, but rupert, so so rebecca, you know, we said earlier when she was talking about Rupert what about accountable?

The Show:

What do you mean? Well, I mean, everyone makes mistakes, but I was married to a man for 12 years who never once took responsibility for any single one of them.

Nick:

And you and I have. We've talked about Rupert and this subject specifically. Do you care to pose the question that we were thrown back and forth to our audience to see what they think?

Marnie:

Yeah, absolutely. And while you're thinking that, I suspect we both have a couple of Ruperts that we've worked for slash with in mind. But how do you deal with a Rupert? And to define that a little more clearly, as people listening get flinchy, thinking about their own Ruperts, somebody that really appears to be loved by those who have a superficial relationship with them, but frustrate those that know them well or really get hurt by them. So that's the question really is how do you deal with someone like a Rupert?

Nick:

Yeah, and maybe the better question is, how would Ted deal with him? And we kind of get a little glimpse into that.

Marnie:

Yeah, I think brilliantly in the first bit of what we see. I like how the show shows Ted sort of sitting back a bit and third party watching the interaction with Rebecca, right Like here's. Rupert coming watching the interaction with rebecca, right like here's rupert coming expecting me man.

Nick:

Thank you, gals and gents with you coming in and rebecca first.

Marnie:

I like there's a little turn in rebecca in this episode like she could have reacted many ways on stage at. She could have been humiliated when ruupert comes in.

Nick:

But she says, oh, I'm crushing your party, but I so badly want to help my fingers and toes across that you will have me Of course, let's get him a seat at the boring table.

Marnie:

Only joking. Table four Rupert Manion, everyone. Rupert Manion, you know like she, she absolutely steps up to the plate and does the right thing and Ted watches. And you know Rupert's going to do the auction. He, you know he's going to give the million bucks. We don't know that till later. But Ted has a chance to help Rupert be the hero, which is what Rupert was trying to set him up to be in terms of getting Robbie Williams to come play. And he doesn't make a big deal of it.

The Show:

He doesn't even really other than a little slight poke to Rupert. Let Rebecca know. Hey, rupert, something just occurred to me. If you could have texted Robbie Williams, asked him him to come tonight, you could have probably just as easily asked him not to come well now, that would have made me a real piece of shit, wouldn't it?

Marnie:

yeah, but ted, in his own way, undermines rut's attempt to set himself up as a hero. I thought it was brilliant.

Nick:

Yeah, and what I really appreciated was at the very end. I don't remember what the exact line was, but when Ted was speaking with Rebecca, he basically told her hey, you might not think that everybody sees Rupert the way you see Rupert, but I see him. I see him the exact way. Again, that's complete paraphrasing, but check marks to building the bond with Rebecca with that statement right there for sure.

Nick:

But going back to your question that you posed and I think we're going to probably leave this one open-ended to our audience and we'd love to hear some feedback in terms to you know, if you're in a business environment with somebody like Rupert who, again, is loved by everybody, you know that he has a superficial, really not deep, relationship with, but is really a source of frustration with those that that work or or interact closely with them. How do you deal with that? Because to me that has, that has always been one of the biggest challenges in the work environment and I think I will say I've tried to deal with it a number of times and a lot of times it's been through, you know, conversation and direct conversation about how I feel, trying to get that person to to see that, but I can't say, I've done it with a lot of success, so I'm hopeful that we're open for tips.

Nick:

Yeah, I can help enlighten us on how to deal with that situation.

Marnie:

So side note, yeah, um, I think some of the symptoms of that is the split locker room like we see in this show. Right, it's kind of like the cool kid that somebody appears to have power and you decide that you want to be aligned to that, and so those that do kind of like Jamie Tartt right, colin and Isaac are going to bully Nate because Jamie wants that behavior and that starts to divide the locker room. It is, it's like the makings of a bully. If you were curious of how to become a bully, here's a lesson. Rupert is already at the top and Jamie is showing you the ingredients that make that. And so, to your point, how do you break that, especially if that bully is in fact the person that owns the company you're working for?

Nick:

Yeah, well, I think you just took me back to the playground in fourth grade.

Marnie:

I hear you.

Nick:

Okay, I hope this has been as entertaining for you and everybody out there as it has for me. I love talking about accountability.

Marnie:

It's one of my core values and I think to be fair, it's one of the things that has helped us be successful is our approach to accountability and having a vision and holding ourselves to that. I mean, we are currently party of two and we still meet regularly to talk about where we are toward our own goals.

Nick:

No doubt Good stuff. Okay, Well, until next week. This has been fun. We'll see everybody soon.

Marnie:

Let's wrap up with John Wooden's pyramid of success. The leadership traits we're going to look at today are poise, team spirit and loyalty. But if you want to check them all out, as usual you can head to our resources tab at leaditlikelassocom and see how everybody scored on all of the traits. We're going to look at Roy, ted and Rebecca. And with poise, it's just being yourself, being at ease in any situation and never fighting yourself. The confidence and poise that Ted and Roy display, I think, are evident. They both get 10s. Rebecca gets a 6. She was nervous about presenting, however, ted helped her out with a deprecating humor suggestion, so she'll get a six plus on that.

Marnie:

With team spirit, this is a genuine consideration for others, an eagerness to sacrifice personal interests for the glory of others. We gave Roy a 10, even though I wouldn't necessarily say it's an eagerness to sacrifice personal interest, but he was really willing to take a humbling step in working with Jamie for the sake of the team. Ted comes in with a solid 10 and Rebecca previously has been a zero, but we're going to give her a three because there seems to be a little chink in that armor as she's starting to trust Ted a bit. And then, lastly, with loyalty. Again, rebecca can't get a perfect score because we still question her motives, so we'll give her a six.

Marnie:

And Ted and Roy, it's evident where their loyalties lie Roy certainly with the team. Where their loyalties lie, roy certainly with the team. And Ted shows, when he decides not to let Rupert save the day and get Robbie Williams to come be the musical guest, that he's really loyal to Rebecca and AFC Richmond. So, as always, hope you have a great week and enjoyed this episode of Lens of Leadership and lead it like Lasso.

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Marnie Stockman

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Nick Coniglio

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