Lens of Leadership: A Ted Lasso Rewatch Podcast
Marnie Stockman and Nick Coniglio, authors of the book Lead it Like Lasso, dig into each episode of Ted Lasso with a lens of leadership. Each podcast starts with a fun quick-clip summary of the episode. Marnie and Nick tie together the leadership principles from Ted Lasso, their own business successes, thought leaders and everyday advice to help individuals level up as they lead themselves (and others). This is a great podcast for TedHeads! There are many other Ted Lasso podcasts out there - this is the "same but different."
Lens of Leadership: A Ted Lasso Rewatch Podcast
Sorry Not Sorry | S1 Ep9
Leadership calls for change and accountability, but how do we embrace these challenging aspects? Join Marnie and Nick on this episode of Lens of Leadership as we dissect so many leadership insights from Ted Lasso's "All Apologies." We scrutinize Rebecca's numerous apologies and Ted and Higgins and their unexpected reactions. Consider Keeley's role in propelling Rebecca towards these pivotal moments as we connect these acts to the broader societal context of cancel culture and the vital need for growth and understanding.
We explore the difficulty in admitting mistakes and the personal growth that follows. This episode is packed with lessons from Ted and Roy’s challenging discussions to Beard and Nate’s cold shoulder approach. Through Ted's evolving relationship with Roy, we uncover the tough decisions leaders must make for the collective good.
Keeley's behind-the-scenes leadership, fostering growth without overshadowing others, showcases her as a sleeper leader. Her influence as an integral part of an accountability network highlights the importance of having individuals who challenge and push leaders towards necessary, albeit difficult, actions. This discussion leads us to crucial life lessons reflected in a simple football drill and the broader theme of changing direction for success. (We will say it once again - the writers of Ted Lasso are brilliant!)
Welcome to Lens of Leadership, our Ted Lasso rewatch podcast. Before we dive into this episode's leadership lessons, let's watch a quick recap.
Speaker 2:Season 1, episode 9. All apologies starts with Roy taking an ice bath after his horrible game. Ted has his back. Keeley tells Rebecca again to confess to Ted. The press and assistant coaches think Ted should bench Roy. Rebecca makes a false start apology, but Rupert then makes a surprise announcement and Rebecca marches right down to Ted and confesses everything In typical Ted fashion. He forgives her. Coach Beard and Nate give Ted the cold shoulder to rethink Roy. Roy and Ted discuss his position on the team. Roy finally gets real with Keeley. Phoebe has wise words. Beard lets Ted have it. Roy apologizes to Ted over tea Biscuits for Higgins because he is back. Roy ends the episode throwing on a second-string jersey, announcing they will kick first team's tail in practice. I am Nick Coniglio.
Speaker 1:And I am Marnie Stockman, and this is Lens of Leadership, a Ted Lasso rewatch podcast. We are the authors of Lead it Like Lasso, a leadership book for life, your life.
Speaker 3:Or, as we like to say, the ultimate cheat code to help you level up in life. For those of you who are joining us for the first time, we take a different approach by deep diving into some leadership principles drawn from each episode.
Speaker 1:And today, episode nine all apologies, we're going to deep dive. Have you ever had a week that feels like it's all crammed into a single day? We call that a mini week. We're going to call this a mini book because we feel like there's so many leadership lessons in this episode. We're cramming it all in.
Speaker 3:Great, let's get to it. Lessons in this episode, we're cramming it all in, great, let's get to it all right. So, wow, I I gotta tell you I I don't think that this episode gets the credit it deserves and and it's just jam-packed, and I mean like really jam-packed, especially when you look at it from through the lens of leadership, which is what we like to do. I rewatched the episode. I've probably seen this episode three or four times, but it's filled with, I think, principles that we talk about on a fairly consistent basis, either through these podcasts or in our book, and there's just so many examples of them.
Speaker 1:What say you?
Speaker 3:What do you think?
Speaker 1:As I was listening I thought does Adam Grant's like? Do his ears tingle every time that we do a podcast? Because I feel like his lessons come up all the time. I, in particular, thought about his book. Think again at how I think that I we said it before right, that is an important book for the world to hear, because this episode is titled all apologies Right, and apologies One are not easy, right, that's. That is swallowing your pride in a big way, but to allow someone to make an apology and then move past it is also not easy. One thing to be the apologizer, but it's the other, it's you know. It's another thing to build a bridge and get over it. And I think that need to think again is represented in here all kinds of ways.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I completely agree. So let's I mean, as you mentioned, the title of this specific episode is all apologies, and I think we have to talk about the fact that there are so many apologies in the show. I think we have to talk about the fact that there are so many apologies in the show. Yeah, you know, Rebecca is the points leader at this point in terms of the number of apologies that she's throwing out there, yeah. But it wasn't just her, so obviously she apologized to Ted. Yes.
Speaker 1:Right After a couple of starts, but she got there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. And Ted. The result there. Of course she apologized for lying to him and trying to sabotage him in any which way possible, just to get back at Rupert. But Ted, ted's response was fantastic.
Speaker 1:It was I forgive you Right.
Speaker 1:I'm curious what people thought the first time they watched that. I am curious what people thought the first time they watched that. Do you remember watching him? Because he was sitting at his desk thinking, okay, he's going to blow up. This is one of the times of the many times in this show where I thought I know exactly what's going to happen and it's. I'm going to enjoy it because they're going to make it funny, but it's going to be the trait. This is going to be the end of it all and it's not what happened.
Speaker 1:They did the grown-up thing again and Ted forgave her.
Speaker 3:Never mind, to be quite honest. And they had another opportunity to do that with Higgins, right With Rebecca's apology to Higgins, and I thought, okay, you know.
Speaker 2:Ted did the unexpected right.
Speaker 3:He forgave her. We're going to have to drag on with this Higgins thing for a while. I remember specifically thinking that when watching the episode for the first time, and Higgins' response is not too dissimilar from Ted's right, which was well. Thank you, rebecca rebecca yeah yeah and it's I.
Speaker 1:I said that's the grown-up thing to do, but that is not the easy thing to do to get past it. Um, and one thing that I think is interesting about the apology is keely forced the apology right. Remember, at the very beginning she she told Rebecca are you going to do this? And Rebecca said why? We're already past it. And I think a lot of people feel like that, like, oh, I don't have to do this terribly awkward thing because we're already beyond it and we're trending in the right direction. This is just going to make it worse for a bit. But Keely we've talked about challenge network before really pushes her and I think that is an important thing to think about in today's world because it reminded me very much of it's the opposite of the cancel culture in today's world.
Speaker 1:If so, if rebecca had done that, keely would have just written her off and like you've done a horrible thing and I know it, I'm going to tell the world and you're done. That is what cancel culture is right, and that is exactly not what she did. What did she tell Rebecca when Rebecca was like we're past this, why do I need to bring it up? And Keely said well, make me so better at you. Yeah, it's funny better at it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's funny, and I think we talk a lot about cancel culture and I think you're exactly right, but there's evidence that that isn't always the case and I'm going to bore you for a second. I'm a big golf fan, as we know right, and this week we just had the Us opening. Bryson dechambeau won it and the.
Speaker 3:The transformation that bryson has undergone over the past three years is is amazing, a new man yeah, yeah, and he, you know, three years ago for those that don't know, he was the villain. He was Rupert in Ted Lasso language, and they asked him about that this week and I'm going to quote him because I don't want to mess this up and he said a couple of things. He said specifically just thinking back three years ago the land state was a lot different. I tried to show everybody who I was. I didn't do it the right way and could have done a lot of things better.
Speaker 3:And then he went on to say it's not a regret, it's a learning experience. I never regret anything in life. Some might disagree with that statement there, but then he says do I not like what I did absolutely? But every moment that I live in this life, I'm always trying to learn from my mistakes. That's the best thing I can say to anyone out there that's struggling, essentially to say, hey, you're in a bad spot, get some good people around you, give yourself a new perspective on life and get after it and show them who you truly are. And I think that's so. That's real life that actually happens.
Speaker 1:So TV show with really good writers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it models the exact scenario that Rebecca was was going through Right and you know Rebecca got some good people around her right, helped her own the problem and and really address it. You know I forget what she said. You know, just admit you make mistakes. We'll forget about it in a week and while that doesn't always necessarily happen, time does truly heal all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting. Last night one of my husband's high school friends came over and we were talking about Ted Lasso in the book, et cetera, and he asked me what my favorite trait of Ted was. I was like, oh, favorite I'm normally just allowed to list six to a hundred that I love, you know. And I said, oh, you know, I'll probably change my mind when I think about it, but you caught me on the spot, so I'm going to say his lack of ego and bringing it to the table. And he said, you know, I think mine is his consistency, how he was the same Ted all of the time.
Speaker 1:He had a plan, he was going to stick with the plan, Didn't matter what people thought around him, et cetera. And so I can appreciate that Bryson recognized that he wanted to be different. You don't have to be the same you all the time If you want to be different. We talk about aspirational goals. Do the work. And yeah, sorry, but if you're a professional golfer, sometimes you have to admit that to, as Rory found out, potentially 47 or 48.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So I mean a couple more things just on the apologies, and I think we're kind of combining, you know, the whole notion of the apology right with also owning it, and then we throw in a little bit of accountability network as well, the challenge network as well, like a whole mini book in one episode.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I started thinking about it. I'm thinking. You know why? Why, in general, have I? Because I think, like everybody in this world, it's hard to apologize sometimes, and you know, two driving factors that came to mind is number one I don't think anybody likes to admit when they're wrong. That's just anti-human nature, it seems like. And this show does a good job, like you said at the very beginning, right Taking the adult approach, admitting you're wrong and seeing that the consequence is not nearly as bad as you think it is, and I think that's always important to remember. But the other is, I think I think we're embarrassed a lot of the time. I think we're embarrassed a lot of the time. Right, it's that embarrassment that really prevents us from owning any mistake that we have made or any wrong that we have done, and where the embarrassment is driven from the fact, I think, at least personally, that I feel like people are going to remember it for the rest of their lives, for all eternity.
Speaker 1:Oh, remember when Nick was embarrassed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and again the show, or the Bryson example. It just goes to show that that's just not simply how life is. Yeah, yeah, all right. So there are some other things that I wanted to talk about. Yeah, so let's talk about some other principles that really came to light in the show that we love from a leadership perspective, and what I wanted to ask you about, marnie, is there's a theme of needing to change direction in this episode. Do you pick up on that theme? You have any thoughts on it?
Speaker 1:Oh, I have a big thought on that. So, first, they are snow, darn sneaky, and we've talked about this on many episodes. What is the drill that Ted makes them do? To see, you know, so he could gauge Roy's performance. What do they have to do? They have to start, stop and start again, because it's all about change in direction. Right, it's not about betting the ball. I'm like, oh my gosh, they're doing a drill about exactly what humans need to do in this life, you know, as you've got to be able to change. And it follows up with the all apology bit, because when someone makes an apology, you have to change the direction. You thought that whole conversation was pending. It's not just about apology. Roy was getting older, wasn't performing as well. He was gonna have to change direction. So the whole theme of changing direction. I couldn't believe they did it again and I was looking because they've done this in all the episodes Like where's the little thing that they're really cluing you into what they want you to pay attention to? Thank you, football drill changing directions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it. It wasn't just Roy that was changing direction, clearly, right, it was Ted had to change. I mean, ted said it earlier in the episode, I think in the very opening scene, when they were in the, the ice bath. Yeah, he's like roy, I just know that I'm always gonna have your back. Yes, and you know. Lo and behold, like he said, roy is slowing down and ted needs to really kind of go back, you know, at the conceptual level of having his back, and he needs to make a decision to, you know, change his trajectory and direction on where he's planning on taking the team.
Speaker 1:So you just reminded me of another sneaky one. Where did he have this conversation with Roy? Well, roy's sitting in an ice bath, right and it's. You know it's cold, and what helps him change his mind is you're making him the cold shoulder right. So we've got cold shoulders and cold shoulders.
Speaker 3:this one I've never, never, put two and two together on that one. That's. That's kind of crazy, but I feel like we're in this ancestral circle at this point with Beard and Nate. Again, they are acting as an accountability team and challenge network for Ted, basically saying you know what, it's time we need to make a change. And, to Ted's credit, he's very open and he says you know, I, I will always value your value, your opinion, even if you're wrong, even if you're wrong, even if you're wrong. But it's. It kind of leads into this whole ted having to bench roy um dynamic that's going on. It kind of leads into another, another, another principle that we don't often talk about, but I think it's a very important and at times a very challenging thing to do, which is the notion that sometimes you do have to consider winning. You do have to consider winning and from a servant leadership standpoint, that could be really really hard. You know, if you're a full mindset is always about lifting up your team and development.
Speaker 3:You know there are times when that's just not possible. And this is a perfect time. You can't stop father time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Roy is slowing down and although Ted would love to continue to build up Roy and have him be the one in the specific fashion of leading this team, being the best player on this team, it's just not possible.
Speaker 3:So I think that message around you know winning and that it matters sometimes, you know it's not always about the wins and losses, but sometimes it really is always about the wins and losses, but but sometimes it really is. Yeah, and it's. It's the challenge, you know, that is thrown at you as a leader of teams, organizations, that you know what sometimes, if you're continuing to go down a specific path, um, it's, it could be a little selfish and not be in the best interest of the team.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean. Well, I didn't. I was almost going to give a spoiler for an episode of Hit. I will not do that and come up with another example. It is sometimes when you know you've hired a friend and that friend is not, you know it is not working out. You're trying to support them and that is not going to help the rest of the team win, right, and we know that from a culture perspective which is the same thing that is true about Roy right that you are actually damaging the morale and culture because you're trying to support a single player but in doing so, so you are lessening the value for everyone else. We're making an awkward place to, to work, live in. So yeah, I think that's very true, it's funny.
Speaker 3:I share a little story. Um, you know, that happened at some point with one of the companies I was working for. We had a technical architect and she was just really really skilled at her craft Great architect. But what made her excel and be really good at her job was also a bit of an issue in terms of working within a team environment, and that was that she. She really had this. She had to be perfect, right, but not only that. She expected perfection from everybody else on the team and it ended up causing a lot of friction.
Speaker 3:And this particular lady she was very hard to get through, but she worked underneath me and it took me a while, but I developed a relationship with her and it was really important for me to do that. You know, not because I was managing her, but also because she was critical to our organization. We were just scaling at the time and we needed her the time and, uh, we needed her, um, and you know, I finally managed to crack through and we developed a really big relationship in terms of of, you know, being open with each other, being honest, and I was able to say, okay, you know, I know you're really good at what you do and I know you're part of that is is that affectionism, I said? But you're really rubbing people the wrong way and it's it's not good for the scheme environment.
Speaker 3:I remember specifically saying we are going to get through this together. We were going to get to a point where we have this jittered out and and and I was bought into that. She was bought into it. She made a lot of progress over time, but at some point it wasn't enough and it was killing the team dynamic and we had to basically remove her from this position of leadership because as a growing organization, we couldn't be perfect. We had to be agile. We had to be agile, we had to be quick. And it very much reminded me of this scenario with Ted and Roy and me saying that we're going to get through this together. It was very similar to.
Speaker 2:Ted saying you know.
Speaker 3:I've got your back, but it would have been selfish of me to keep on that trajectory because the team was not, you know, really pushing forward at full strength, because all this friction.
Speaker 1:So it was your ego that you had to say like, yeah, I said that and I'm going to have to go back on that, not because I didn't mean that I was with you, but we haven't gotten where the team needs to be and, for the greater good, we need to move on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and zoning it right, and then going back to what we were saying earlier.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there were a couple other things that that came out. Many things, like we said, that came out in South Australia, yeah, so this was not a big part of the show but it was in there and I think it's important to bring it up. But at the near the beginning of the show, rebecca was in a photo shoot. She was being interviewed for a magazine and the story was really about her position as a female in sports and they were doing a profile on her and Ted makes the statement you know, this is a big deal. Being a role model is a big deal. I'm imagining all the.
Speaker 1:I can only imagine all the young girls.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, and then we got into the whole. You know, young girls, they're mysteries, and I thought that was pretty funny yeah. But I think the point there again is you know, we're, we're, we're, you and I are parents. Right, we're role models. Leaders in an organization, they're role models and it's important to act in such a way that you inspire other people. And it's just a good reminder from the show again of another important principle of being an updater.
Speaker 1:I'll throw one thing out there, just because you reminded me of it In two different presentations and conferences that I've given again, we were in the it space, which is predominantly, you know, male driven space, and after two days in a row after presentation, a young, like 1920 year old, female who was just getting out of school in the space came up and asked me if I would mentor them, because they didn't see many women CEOs of software companies and they said like how do you become you? We don't see anybody else. So yeah, I would have to agree with Ted. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think it's important to know that you still are actively mentoring some of those young ladies, correct, yeah? So let's talk about one last topic that I think is a very important highlight that came out in this episode, and that's when you know, roy was struggling and he finally opened up.
Speaker 1:Is Heidi talking up something important?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah With, with Keeley, which again is hilarious, and his, his, his big thing was you know, I'm Roy Kent, I'm always the best. And he starts talking about himself in third person. I like Roy, yeah, you know, I'm the best footballer on the field. Third person like I like roy. Yeah, you know, I'm the best footballer on the field. And um, keely then uses kind of the led tasso sarcasm men feel sorry for themselves, which is a great way to to communicate and have somebody listen to themselves. Sometimes it's great tactic, um, but she ends with the whole notion of really roy, all that matters is what you think about yourself. I don't worry about how others might perceive you and think just think about who you are and it's, it's a tech lesson about being your authentic self. So, if I so if you're probably the most authentic person I know, I thought you'd have a lot of ideas on this.
Speaker 1:Well, I do have some thoughts on it, and it wasn't so much not caring about what other people think, but if you are being true to yourself, then you will come to the world in a place that accepts the real version of you. I can remember in one of our acquisitions that we were having, there was an internal battle in the company and someone else that had the same role that I had was really, really struggling with. It was one of those days where you felt like you were quarterstaffing your way through everything and I was a lot calmer and I said we should take a walk, because this was neither of them any better. And you know, I think it started out as a stomp, if I can be fair. So like I'm chasing him as he's stomping his way up the hills of Utah and and he said how can you be so calm? And I said well, first, I'm 10 years older than you and let me tell you what I know In your twenties you worry about what everybody thinks about you, and in your 30s you don't care what everybody thinks about you.
Speaker 1:And in your 40s, you realize nobody was thinking about you anyway, and so you can just get down to brass tacks and you see the end goal and you're not worried about how you're coming out in this situation. What you want is eye on the prize and you're willing to step your ego out of the way when you need to in order to make sure everybody gets there. And you're less concerned about the drama. Um, and it's funny because it's been 10 years now and uh, and he has said like yeah, I needed to hear that, like I get it now I was, I was fired up, um, and so I think roy needed to realize, like okay, who are you? It's not so much about this impression, because it's the real you that people want to know anyway, and if we can get our ego out of the way, we can still enjoy this life.
Speaker 3:And it's funny when you think about it, because we just talked about role models. When you think about it, because we just talked about role models and and roy for the first, we're in the ninth episode at this point. You know he has been looking at ted this entire time and has grown to really appreciate ted yeah and but.
Speaker 3:but ted is he is like the television version of you, which is he is his authentic self, right, and he's not worried at all. He's only worried about being true to who he is. Yeah, and it's ironic that Roy has this issue and he's had a role model in helping him get through that specific problem this entire time.
Speaker 1:And I appreciate Keely in this episode a lot. You know we did. We had a conference this week where we presented and the people in the room did not really think about Keely so much as a leader until we started pointing out things like this. And I think that if you Keely's the sleeper leader in this and you see it here both with how she challenges her friend Rebecca and challenges her boyfriend Roy to like really take a good hard look at themselves, doesn't boss them around but gets them to a place where they can take a look at themselves.
Speaker 3:She's really good for a lot of people in this show and and that right there again, like you said, a lot of people don't think of keely as a leader, but she demonstrates so many great qualities, uh, of a leader, um, and you're right, this episode really bangs home a lot of those qualities. Okay, yeah, so I am going to say it again I believe this is one of the most underappreciated episodes of this entire series. So many different ways in which they demonstrate leadership qualities that at least I aspire to me to have you know in almost everything that I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree that was. I mean I had bulleted six things without even trying to think about it. So I think I think that is evidence for sure I'm excited for next time. It is the last episode of season one, the Hope that Kills you. So we hope everybody, we hope everyone will watch the next episode and join us next time to see what leadership lessons we can learn there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I look forward to it and we'll see you then and we'll see you then.
Speaker 1:Now let's take a look at John Wooden's Pyramid of Success. Today we're going to take a look at adaptability, poise and honesty, as always. If you want to see all of the characters, all of the scores for all of the items on the pyramid, go to leaditlikelassocom and check out our resources page. Adaptability is all about how you adjust in any situation. Poise is just being yourself, being at ease in any situation, never fighting yourself. And honesty is in thought and actions. So if we look at poise, roy typically has poise, but I laugh at the end when he got angry and said sorry, I'm normally better at controlling that. Ted said are you? So? He recognizes he doesn't always have it together. Ted in this episode kept it together the entire time, especially when Rebecca apologized to him. Rebecca, she normally keeps her poise in all situations, but definitely Rupert rattled her. So she got a 7+ In adaptability. Roy really struggled with it, so we gave him a five because we know he's got some growing to do, but boy, he's getting there. Ted gave him a seven because he really struggled with the whole conversation for Roy and Rebecca moving in the right direction. Seven trending up Honesty, roy gave a seven trending up. The struggle with Roy is being honest with himself. Ted, I think, really worked to be honest and it took Beard some really good friendship to get him to rethink what he was being honest about, and Rebecca taking a turn for the positive. So we'll give her a seven, trending up as always. We hope you have a great week. Would love it if you would like subscribe, comment, share, et cetera. The algorithms would love it too. Thanks.
Speaker 1:Let's wrap up with John Wooden's pyramid of success. As always, we're going to rate on three traits integrity, alertness and self-control. This week, if you're interested in seeing all of the characters, be sure to head on over to leaditlikelassocom and check out the resources page. But we're going to take a look at Roy, ted and Keely. Integrity is purity of intention and I'll be curious to hear if anybody disagrees with this. But I feel like across the boards, we gave everyone 10s. Here. I mean Roy I think integrity is one of his strong points and Ted and Keely speak their mind well. So 10s all the way across speak their mind well. So tens all the way across. Alertness is not just always observing constantly, but being open-minded, eager to learn and improve. So Ted and Keely, always open-minded, always seem eager to learn and improve and I think Roy is trending up. So we gave Ted and Keely tens and Roy an eight and moving in the right direction.
Speaker 1:And lastly, self-control how you practice self-discipline and keep emotions under control. Good judgment and common sense are essential. So for this one, I think all of these characters are working on this. In some areas they are rock solid, but in others they need to work on it. Roy we gave him a seven plus because he acknowledged that he is working on trying to be better and mature. We have Ted and Keely sevens as well. With Keely, I think the struggle with her just reading a text message, as we talked about in the episode, and not getting not really understanding, you know, got herself into sort of a self-perpetuating spiral of what could happen if Roy didn't respond to her. She lacks some self-control there. But otherwise I think they're all trending positive. I hope everyone has a great week and hope to see you next time. Please do like, comment, share all the things. We appreciate you and so do the algorithms.
.jpg)
