Lens of Leadership: A Ted Lasso Rewatch Podcast
Marnie Stockman and Nick Coniglio, authors of the book Lead it Like Lasso, dig into each episode of Ted Lasso with a lens of leadership. Each podcast starts with a fun quick-clip summary of the episode. Marnie and Nick tie together the leadership principles from Ted Lasso, their own business successes, thought leaders and everyday advice to help individuals level up as they lead themselves (and others). This is a great podcast for TedHeads! There are many other Ted Lasso podcasts out there - this is the "same but different."
Lens of Leadership: A Ted Lasso Rewatch Podcast
Vulnerability S2 | Ep 2
You are in for a treat! Lucy Broadbent (author of What would Ted Lasso do? and How to be a Lioness?) joins Marnie and Nick to rewatch Season 2 Episode 2 Lavender. From the power of positivity in Ted to the bravery of lions not pandas, they discuss the leadership lessons from Ted Lasso and Lucy's books.
Welcome to Lens of Leadership, our Ted Lasso rewatch podcast. Before we dive into this episode's leadership lessons, let's watch a quick recap.
Speaker 2:Season 2, episode 2 starts off with Jamie Tartt getting kicked off reality TV. Nate yells at Will for adding lavender to the laundry. Ted is not exactly pleased that Dr Sharon is still around. Biscuits with the boss definitely does not work on her. Ted and Higgins are masters of dad puns. Both Ted and Rebecca are skeptical of therapy. Keeley appreciates Roy's press conference. Jamie meets Ted at the bar and tells him he is awesome, great, okay, terrible, it's all shit Ted. Sam sees Jamie and Ted on Twitter and cusses at Ted. Roy brings his own fruity language as a pundit but enjoys being back in the game. In a way, dr Sharon and Ted finally connect a bit. This episode ends with Jamie running onto the pitch as snow begins to fall in AFC Richmond.
Speaker 3:Hi everyone, I'm Nick Canigleo.
Speaker 1:And I'm Marnie Stockman, and this is Lens of Leadership, a Ted Lasso rewatch podcast. We're the authors of Lead it Like Lasso, a leadership book for life, your life.
Speaker 3:And this podcast is an extension of many of the elements outlined in our book. We invite you to join us as we take a deep dive into each episode and explore the leadership principles as they play out in the series. And for today's episode, we're diving into season two, episode 2, Lavender. We're excited to jump to a number of different topics with our special guest, Lucy Broadbent.
Speaker 1:We're so excited. One of the best things about the Ted Lasso community are the people and we're fortunate enough to have connected with Lucy. Before we had even released Lead it Like Lasso, lucy had already written her first Ted Lasso book what Would Ted Lasso Do? We got a copy right away and we were impressed with her research and writing on the positive psychology used in the show. We are excited to say hello to Lucy Bravent. Hey, lucy, hi, hello.
Speaker 3:Lucy, thanks so much for joining us and we wanted to jump right in. So in this episode Sam gets wind that Jamie's coming back to AFC Richmond and he really at this point he gets pretty angry and gets way out of character.
Speaker 2:Hey Sam, I was trying to help the team here.
Speaker 3:Bullshit, hey Sam, I was trying to help the team here Bullshit. I think, given the way that Sam was treated by Jamie, this seems pretty reasonable. But the whole notion of heightened emotions reminds us a bit of how we heard that your own story and your own impetus and the reason for writing what Ted Lasso. What would Ted Lasso do? Writing what Ted Lasso, what would Ted Lasso do? We'd love for you to share that story with our audience on kind of how that whole, the whole book came to be and the story about, maybe, the situation in the parking lot.
Speaker 4:Oh yes, the situation in the parking lot.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 4:So I think that season two had finished running and Ted Lasso was on my mind, and I do adore it and I'm thinking about it. Anyway, I'm sitting there in the parking lot and I'm actually not even moving and someone scrapes the side of my car and Ted Lasso comes immediately to mind and I think, instead of leaping out and yelling at the person, I just did a sort of a sort of an odd moment and I thought, okay, what would Ted Lasso do in this circumstance? Because ultimately I knew he would be kind. So I tried a different tack to my usual kind of cursing, and it was awfully nice, in the way that you know, brits quite sometimes can be and in the way that Ted Lasso always is. And so I was awfully nice and it was the right thing to do because it was a little old lady and you know it wasn't that bad is. And so I was awfully nice and it was the right thing to do because it was a little old lady and, um, you know it wasn't that bad. But the thing that was surprising to me ultimately was how it made me feel. Walking away, that's, that was the key thing. So, instead of being all riled up and angry about, car I actually felt really good about myself. I I felt, oh good, I actually handled that quite nicely and I feel good about it.
Speaker 4:And that got me thinking about other aspects. I found myself thinking about how Ted Lasser would react in certain circumstances. You know, he's standing in the checkout line in the supermarket. He is nice and courteous to the checkout. He would engage in conversation. I'm a kind of chatty person anyway, um, but that was what got me going down that avenue and, um, I'm a, my background is journalism, um, and I used to work for newspapers and we'd we'd used to always write speeches around tv shows that everybody is watching and I could see it formulating. And, um, before I knew it, there was the idea for a book. I mean, if you extrapolate all of the things, there's so much actually in the tv show that you can turn into a book, as you yourselves know absolutely that that's so.
Speaker 1:You know, as I mentioned in the opening, that we saw that your book was out before we had even released Lead it, Like Lasso, and so I wanted to read it and see like, oh, are we telling, retelling the same stories?
Speaker 1:But yours was very much around the positivity, you know, and the psychology of Ted Lasso, which I loved, whereas ours focused on leadership and there were so many other avenues that we could have gone down before.
Speaker 1:But what I liked about what would Ted Lasso do is that each chapter you picked a big theme to think about, and one of the most powerful ones, I think, is vulnerability, especially for the episode that we're talking about here. So in the middle of you know, we're at season two, episode two, and amidst change, and change is hard, right, we've got Jamie going from reality TV to begging to get a job back. Nate is dealing with the promotion of his you know, his own promotion and then yelling at Will for putting lavender in the, you know, to calm the players down when they're about to go take on a soccer or football match. Higgins is changing offices, roy hasn't quite figured out life after the pitch and Ted is having to deal with Dr Sharon as an influence on the team. So we'll actually start with. I'll let Nick reference the scene that I want to talk about with Dr Sharon and therapy in general.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so kind of reminding our audience of this episode. So in this episode, both ted and rebecca show that they're clearly skeptical about therapy you ever been to a therapist rebecca what for?
Speaker 4:I can diagnose myself in a heartbeat. I thought being invulnerable would protect me, so I push people away for years, leading me directly to my greatest fear being alone big whoop, big whoop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't get it. Why pay someone to do what a friend should do for you for free, exactly I mean, that's why you have friends, isn't it?
Speaker 3:I mean to burden them with your issues and anxiety um, and we know in your book what would dead lasso, do you? You kind of reference this, this skepticism. And so the you know, long-winded question here is as leaders and I think I'm one of them we often grapple with the balance between personal support systems and professional help. Any thoughts on how leaders, or anyone, can encourage openness to seeking professional support, like therapy, while still fostering, you know, strong supportive team dynamics? How do you see that? How do you see that, that tension playing out, you know, between the sport network and therapy?
Speaker 4:Well, I think that I mean, that was really the crux of the whole series, actually, wasn't it? I mean, and I think this the the answer is to keep talking about it. I mean, and I think the answer is to keep talking about it. I think talking about mental health was sort of almost a taboo subject and as leaders you know you in a lot of businesses nobody talks about it. I think that's still true. Then it becomes almost like a buzzword, Maybe too far, but the point about a TV show is that it normalizes it. A long time ago, I interviewed some of the producers of Modern Family.
Speaker 4:Modern Family which normalized gay couples, modern Family, modern Family which normalized gay couples, and it was a very significant moment in TV shows. I'm so pleased we got there Because it normalized it. So Ted Lasso, I think, normalizes the idea of talking about mental health. There he is with Rebecca and although they've got to turn it into something that's funny, um, and there is with Rebecca and that they're saying, you know, oh, I wouldn't touch therapy, I wouldn't which mimics so much of what a lot of people really think.
Speaker 4:Um, you know, it's terrifying and I think that it received the show received a lot of as well as critical acclaim for its show business, but a claim from therapists themselves who were so grateful that and they felt that it was a really realistic representation of what a lot of people go through going to therapy. They're resistant, they're frightened, and these are perfectly normal reactions. And so, in terms of leadership, when you're in a business, um, you know it, the point is to just keep talking, isn't it, um? And so Rebecca and and Ted do eventually come to terms with it, and it's helpful to both of them when we see that outcome. So therefore, it's helpful to everybody. I mean, I think that is my answer Keep talking.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I love that the actors will just say exactly what you said, what everybody else is thinking Right, like, oh, that's what I have friends for. But then Ted gives the answer right. Or like, oh, yeah, we just burdened, that isn't you know? Oh right, that is what I'm doing, okay. So it helps us see the flaws in our own emotional intelligence while while the show is going on and we're all just kind of smacking ourselves in the head.
Speaker 1:Really, yeah, um, you also wrote the book lioness or panda. Uh, I think that was well. That was one of my favorite scenes in season one, uh, where you know, rebecca is walking out to the car and keely's asking you know, ted, if, if she would be a lion or a panda. My favorite part of that is Jamie saying coach, I'm me. Why would I want to be anybody else? So, but your book focused on relationship with women and themselves in and out of work. Um, and so when in this season, jamie is who for sure was a lion, right, like his attitude was lying all season one he walks into the bar to see Ted, um, because he wants to beg for his job back, and when Ted asks him how he's doing, he says great, awesome, terrible, awful. It's all shit, Ted, ted. That might be the first time I've ever cussed on a podcast, so I don't. We're probably breaking youtube right now how you been uh awesome best pretty good okay, a little depressed yeah it's all she did.
Speaker 1:So is he a panda or is he doing the brave work of a lion, or is that like, how do you see that as you looked up the differences between sort of the representation of the panda and lion?
Speaker 4:It's so interesting that you see it that way Because, you know, inside my head I was only applying it to women. So it's interesting you're applying it to Jamie and you know, in all of these things there's never any definitive one or the other, is it? They're all sort of, they're all mindsets, aren't they? And so Jamie was being honest. Eventually, he's honest and he drops his facades. Is that being a lion to drop your facade and be vulnerable? I think that it is.
Speaker 4:Actually, I think there is strength in when we talk about people, whether they're lions or pandas, lions, you're talking about strength ultimately. You know, rebecca describes it at the very beginning um, uh lines that you're talking about strength. Ultimately, you, you, you know you, she, rebecca describes at the very beginning it's all about being the rule of the jungle, um and um, strength, um, and so then I guess the question is in that instance, regarding Jamie, if he goes through the full gamut of emotions, but ultimately he's sharing what he's really being, and you're talking about vulnerability there, and I think that that is one of the themes of the shows. That's a running theme too, and Sarah Niles, who plays Dr, dr sharon, has talked about that, that she really wanted a um role in which vulnerability was part of the play, and um, and how brené brown has spoken often that vulnerability is strength, um, and so, rather than I mean you know you can do it lioness or panda, I I turned it into a female thing because I thought it was a, it was a female uh moment.
Speaker 4:But um, we're all, we're all of these things, aren't we at all? Various different times, um, and how do you move forward? Uh, in, you know, to our own advantage? I think you kind of recognise where you are, perhaps, and that's where you can really start to move forward, recognising being vulnerable, being honest, and that is what ultimately wins Teddo. In Jamie's case, ted's won over by that and and um, and gives him a place back and jamie gets to where he get. Jamie gets his second chance. So I think have I answered the question?
Speaker 1:I think you have yeah I think, think I mean to your point the bravery of a lion like Jamie took a risk by being vulnerable. So in that way I do think the connection is pretty strong. So, yeah, that that made sense. That made sense to me. That is again not even though the book was really about, you know, kind of the relationship between Keely and Rebecca and the supporting of women in their relationships. But we also saw Keely supporting Roy in his football punditry thing. Right, it's like wanting him to become a football pundit and there's this balance between strength and softness in how Keeley has to approach Roy and how Roy has to think about it himself. He kind of has to become vulnerable in a way, to to say, maybe I do want to be around football. So similarly like, is he Lion or Panda? He kind of runs through the gamut of emotions, I think on that whole scenario as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think he probably does. I mean, again, I think it's just, it's a spectrum, isn't it? Yeah, I think I wouldn't, I don't think, I think I'd be nervous to classify. I mean, you could look at any any kind of moment at all. For any one of us, are you a lion or a panda? But I, I think that that's not really sort of not really the point really, um, um, I think softness and strength, it says it quite well. Actually, you know, and we, we're all like that and doesn't keely, isn't that what they say? What all women want to do when they want their husbands to to do something, is you, you, you coax them, uh, into thinking their idea all along, uh and um we won't have me thinking now let's see, hmm, that would all make sense so it's interesting that you say I had no intention of speaking of this.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what made me think of it, but you talked about the spectrum between lion and panda. We have, as I live in the middle of nowhere, we have a rural zoo up the street and there's a Z donk which is half zebra, half donkey, and it actually fades from striped to brown and it actually fades from striped to brown, and so I'm trying to picture what the panda lion looks like in my mind. So what was easier for you? You wrote what would Ted Lasso do first, and then you wrote lioness or panda second. Were you thinking there needed to be a second one? Were just scenes popping out everywhere and you just couldn't cram them all into one book. What, uh, which was easier for you, or? Or was are they both? Just both themes really popped up and you thought there was meat behind them um, well, I think.
Speaker 4:Um, the first one was definitely easy to write. It sort of wrote itself, because there's so much and Jason Sudeikis has talked a lot himself. When you look through all the quotes and him in interview, you know I'm convinced he has read Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning 100%.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and you know know, there's so many positive psychology books, and the more I sort of looked into it, the more I could think, oh yeah, they're, they're advocating this, they are surely saying that. And then, um, so that was. That was a sort of an, almost an easy. It was an easy book to write, um, um. The second one came along because, um, you will remember that the women's soccer so it's the end of season three ends with the suggestion of Rebecca, um of Kili to Rebecca on women's team, which may, of course, yet still prove to be seasons four.
Speaker 4:You know, who knows, who knows. But at the same time, you know, the Women's World Cup was taking place and suddenly this, what was? I got very caught up in Women's World Cup because I thought it was a phenomenal female story. And then, at the same time, when they were filming the final seasons of Ted Lasso, the UEFA Cup was happening for women at the time and Britain's female football team, known as the Lionesses, won. So Britain would have been been absolutely. They were blown away by this. You know, um.
Speaker 4:And so this was you know, this was at their home team winning at the ua cup final. It was astonishing, it was really big, and they were filming ted lasso at the time. That will not have been lost on the life of thought to myself. And so, no surprise, it sort of ends up in the last little bit. And so then I find that the extraordinary story about how women were held back in female soccer. Women were not allowed, women were banned from playing soccer for 50 years, which is extraordinary. So I sort of I'm afraid I got on my high horse really, and there were so many.
Speaker 4:I was always taken with the idea of how and both Hannah Waddingham and Junotemple talked about their characters how they met in the washroom and they're in a cast full of men and they expect the two female characters to be pitted against each other. So they then are thrilled and delighted when these characters play supporting, mentoring. One mentors the other. They play supporting roles to each other. Um and um. That's a sort of.
Speaker 4:I have always been lucky in my life, but you know fantastic women who have mentored me and been kind to me, and you know I think that the television presents a world that's not actually true. In my work experience, women have been fantastic, um, and so that's not actually true. In my work experience, Women have been fantastic, and so that's how I ended up writing how to Be a Lioness, which was really the female component to the show, which you know and you can just see it all the way through. You know they were doing something different. I felt they were doing something different for the female characters and that was worth writing about, and you can turn that into all sorts of things things I may have got a bit too hung up on women's soccer, but we'll see you know it's funny, we, um, we do a uh.
Speaker 3:You know we have a master class in addition to our, our book on our own personal leadership. We have a character assessment and and we always are, you know, amazed as we kind of talk through, I think rebecca is somewhat obvious and in a lot of the traditional attributes of a leader, but we're amazed at how many different attributes around good leadership principles keely demonstrates throughout the whole series. I mean, she, it, she, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's. Eyeopening when you start really parsing, as Marnie and I do, every single episode, looking at it through a lens of leadership, because it's, it's not obvious, right at you, but as you kind of look through it, it's like, yeah, you know, that's exactly how I want to work with somebody. And and you talk about the relationship between her and Rebecca, it's, I know, it's, I know my, I enjoyed it, my, my whole family, my son, my wife, enjoyed the relationship and seeing how that worked.
Speaker 3:But you, you brought up a little bit where season four might go and we talked about the women's league. You know, and I think a lot of people when they think about, okay, is season four going to happen? That, and you know, and I think a lot of people, when they think about, ok, is season four going to happen, that that seems to be the most popular prediction of where it might go. But I was curious, and we're both curious. You've written the two books, obviously. Is there anything? Is there a third book that's kind of percolating in your head that you're thinking about around Ted Lasso? Or might there be with?
Speaker 4:the introduction in season four. I think there's so much that that show lends itself to. I had thought about it, um, and I think there you know there is, there is, uh, there are other things that could be explored um any particular themes that that you want to share, or is it too early for that? Well, I think forgiveness is a theme that's a fairly obvious one, I think. I think that's the one that comes to mind. But I mean, what do you think? What other things would you explore?
Speaker 1:So we almost subtitled our book A Roadmap at the Intersection of Self-Help and Leadership, because self-help and self-care was such an important part. And it is a part when. So Nick mentioned our character assessment in the book and we do strengths and weaknesses of five of the characters, and Ted clearly is a strong. You know he's the positivity guru. Those are his strengths. But one of the things that Ted was terrible with was self-care right, because he was so busy helping others and being positive for others that he didn't take care of himself. So we definitely think there are a lot of self-help and we think that, you know, our number one rule in the book is everyone is a leader or his leadership is life, and everyone is a leader and it's that personal leadership that matters and that just so blends into self-help that I think that's a thread that runs through it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I think that's that's so true and I think that there's, from what I've read from there is a lot of conversation about self-care. You have to take like being on the airline you have to take care of yourself first before you start. Exactly, I think there's a lot of merit to that. I mean, who knows? I think we're at the early stages where people are considering mental health and you know, it's a new thing, it's you know in the last decade isn't it?
Speaker 4:so where is it? Where are we all going to be in the next 10 years? And that's really interesting. Uh, how are we all going to improve it? I would hope that. You know we all. There's so much more now that we're so much more aware of um. You know, 30 years ago no one really bothered thinking about exercise. You know um, and now it's all part of the natural conversation. It's right, everyone understands if you want to stay fit, you exercise. But I think for my parents, that generation, I didn't think they actually thought about that. Wellness wasn't a term, it just wasn't. So now here we all are and what you know, leadership places are waking up to it. Where and where is that going to lead next? That's what I'm curious to know. You know we all want to see it the future, don't we?
Speaker 1:yes we do yeah, especially when it comes to season four. I think we're all the internet's a buzz, so I mentioned that we have rules in our book and one of the things that we talk about in there are our life hacks, which we loved ted lasso's scene with his trick plays, so we call trick plays. So if there was a trick play slash life hack called the Lucy Broadbent, what would that be?
Speaker 4:Well, do you know what I? I I'm not really sure, but I know what I would say. You know, kindness, you know. I think that I was taken with a kindness. I haven't got a life hack.
Speaker 1:I mean I think that I was taken with a kindness. I haven't got a life hack. I mean I think I mean my mom would say you get more flies with honey right Than you do with vinegar type of thing, and I do think that is a life hack. If people understand like you got your car hit and you left the. You left the scene feeling better than you did when you got there. That's, that is a life hack. That's in the world of mental health. That's a way better way to handle that.
Speaker 4:It's true, it's true. Yeah, I think you've got to stay positive. You have to believe. You do I have?
Speaker 4:a few things. I put up this little sign because I mean to be honest. You know, excuse me, you know I brought out this book, um, I've never done anything like it before. Um, my, it's a self-published book. I, I don't shy away from saying it, I've been published with traditional publishers.
Speaker 4:Before um the book came back, I had the idea of it. I pitched it to several publishers uh, book publishers. They, uh they, we didn't know when season three was coming out. Um, I had the CEO of a publishing company on the phone with three days of me pitching the idea, so I knew I was on to something. Um, and but, and but.
Speaker 4:Then he having got all excited and I'm sort of like spending all the oodles of advance he was going to give me, obviously, and I could see him talk himself out of it, he said, he said the problem is we don't know when season three is and I could, uh, I might not. You know, season three could come out and I couldn't have my book published. It takes me, as a traditional book publisher, a very long time to um bring out a book. Um, he said, of course you could self-publish in half the time, or even no time at all. And I thought I gave up on the idea, didn't think about it, and then it kept annoying me and I thought, okay, I'm gonna look into this. So that's how I did it. And all every single step of the way I thought, thank god, you're out of your depth really. I had no idea what I was doing.
Speaker 4:Um and um. I mean it sounds really hokey to say it, but you do have to have a certain and go. I can't tell. That's it said. Believe, he's telling me to believe. So I got myself a sign. You know, I I paid for an editor who ran off with my money. I mean, I did everything wrong that you could possibly do. And there's, you know, all all this instruction on launch dates and so on. I didn't have launch dates. It went out with a sort of like a whimper rather than a bang, you know. But still, here I am and I've sold an awful lot of copies which I really had very low expectation. I mean, there's a catchphrase have low expectations and you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Speaker 3:I think that is my life hack, lucy. I love that. Set the bar low and exceed them right With a little belief. And you know, our rule number 11 is manifested and it sounds like you did something. You just made it happen. Right, you said, okay, this is going to happen, and you made it happen and I awesome, that's that's. I'd be very proud if I were you. That's, that's really neat well, it's been fun.
Speaker 4:I mean it's been really fun and you know, and it has been so lovely. I mean I hope you found this experience too. Meeting people in this ted lasso community, um, um, really really smart, lovely people. You know the I interviewed um, there's coach beards book club. They do a podcast, so they have. I think they've gone very quiet recently. Um and um, uh, there's a I mean some, some fantastic people I've met, including the lovely day lady who does Ted Lasso tools.
Speaker 4:She's a gem. And so, anyway, I have another wonderful woman who runs Canva, who does Canva workshops, and she's a Ted Lasso enthusiast.
Speaker 3:I mean, these are really lovely people I've met. I think Marty and I say it almost every day the best part about this whole experience in writing this book is having the chance to meet and engage with people in the community. It was unexpected, but at the same time, it's been the most rewarding part of this whole journey, including today. Lucy, thank you for taking the time to join us. This has been great today.
Speaker 4:Lucy, thank you for taking the time to join us. This has been great. I've got a quick question for you. I mean, did you see that? Did you see it coming that it's going to be such a big phenomenon, because I mean they've got a Ted Lasso Museum in Richmond. I mean, it's, it's, it's big. Now it's global. Did you see that coming? I?
Speaker 1:didn't personally yeah, you know, I felt like at some point it had the same hook, that, like the office did, and as we were talking about writing the book, I told my daughter, who's 22. And of course, at that age, since you know everything, it's just best to get advice from 22 year olds because they know all the answers, know everything. It's just best to get advice from 22 year olds because they know all the answers. And I suggested the book and she said no, mom, like that's, it's just a TV show, it's going to pass. You can't write a book on it. And I said, little miss, since you're currently staying in my house, you are going to watch the first three episodes, and then you come talk to me about whether or not we should write this book.
Speaker 1:And I went out grocery shopping and took a walk and I come back into her dancing, yelling Roy Kent, roy Kent is here, he's there, he's everywhere, roy Kent. And I said and there you go. So now, what do you think? She's like oh, yeah, you guys need to write this book. So so she saw then that like, yeah, this is, there's a spirit behind this show and the community. I mean to hop on Facebook and see a group of 86,000 people that are dissecting every bit of Ted Lasso. And then, finally, I walked into a local gift shop and I saw a book about Schitt's Creek and and I thought I think Ted Lasso definitely has more meat on its bones in terms of the whole world wanting to be better because of this show.
Speaker 3:Those were the hints to me, but still, I mean, I don't think to be fair, we didn't, we didn't even realize the community existed when we started writing this book. Right, we, we started, we, I mean, we just didn't. And and then, as we did more and more research and we ran across the likes of lucy broadbent's, of the world and all these different communities and the lasso verse, we're like, oh my goodness, there is, there is. People feel the same way that we felt about the show when we watched it and we thought we're like oh my goodness, there is, there is. People feel the same way that we felt about the show when we watched it and we thought we were like the only people in the world, you know, besides our inner circles, that really like the show and it was like, wow, this is what a what a great bunch of people, because you know, they share those same ideals of positivity and vulnerability and all the things that the show brought across to to viewers, and it was just awesome yeah, isn't it?
Speaker 4:it is. It is interesting and what's so funny? When the season three came out, I feel so invested in it now, um, and I love it so much that that I saw some of the critics they were. Some of them were not particularly kind about season three and I took it personally where are they?
Speaker 1:you need to speak with us.
Speaker 3:We will let you know and set you straight a hater is gonna hate, right I mean, but but it was so undeserving because it was such a good season. It was such a good season and it worked as an arc.
Speaker 4:Yes, you know. I mean, you know I have total confidence in them because they obviously know how to get it right. But I am a little bit nervous for the season four because you can have something really brilliant and, you know, I hope it's as good, you know, because they've got something that's really magic and I would hate them to be having to stretch it out and eke it out and lose some of that, dilute it.
Speaker 3:I suppose I'm saying and I think it's somewhat comforting that they've been so apprehensive about moving forward with such a thing. Right, and if you feel like if they actually do it, then we have such confidence in the writers of the show and the creators in the show that they probably have something that they think is really good. At least that's my hope and my thought process.
Speaker 1:I agree. And every time in the show when you thought you knew where it was going, they surprised you with something somehow better than what you were already excited about. So I'm just going to, I'm just going to believe, yes, that's right, I'm just going to believe yes, that's right. So before we go, and thank you so much, tell folks is Amazon the best place to find your books? It's where I found them, but are you self-published and have it on your website?
Speaker 4:Yeah, amazon is the place you can go to my website, but it will just ultimately lead you eventually back to Amazon. All roads, all, eventually back to Amazon. All roads, yes, all roads lead to Amazon. And here they are. Here they are. I have to wave them in the air.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that, especially since mine are on Kindle, so I didn't have the paperback to wave in the air, but I've enjoyed them for sure. Read them multiple times, as a matter of fact. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3:You're awesome.
Speaker 4:Thank you, lucy, thank you for starting this conversation. Lovely, really lovely.
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