Lens of Leadership: A Ted Lasso Rewatch Podcast
Marnie Stockman and Nick Coniglio, authors of the book Lead it Like Lasso, dig into each episode of Ted Lasso with a lens of leadership. Each podcast starts with a fun quick-clip summary of the episode. Marnie and Nick tie together the leadership principles from Ted Lasso, their own business successes, thought leaders and everyday advice to help individuals level up as they lead themselves (and others). This is a great podcast for TedHeads! There are many other Ted Lasso podcasts out there - this is the "same but different."
Lens of Leadership: A Ted Lasso Rewatch Podcast
Dealing with insecurities and getting unstuck S2 | Ep 7
In this episode of Lens of Leadership, Marnie and Nick explore Ted Lasso Season 2, Episode 7—"Headspace"—with special guests Dr. David Coffey and John Golden, mathematics professors and co-hosts of the Teaching Like Ted Lasso podcast.
We unpack key moments from Ted Lasso, including:
⚽ Nate’s struggle with insecurity and ambition—how unresolved emotions impact leadership.
⚽ Roy Kent’s journey from blind spot to self-awareness—embracing feedback and making amends.
⚽ The powerful dichotomy between Nate and Roy’s responses to feedback—contrasting growth through humility and resistance.
Special Guest Insight:
David and John offer fresh perspectives on leadership, creativity, and problem-solving. They share:
✅ The power of feedback and how to approach it for real growth.
✅ Lessons from the Innovators Compass—a tool for breaking through challenges and fostering creativity.
✅ Insights into how design thinking applies to education, leadership, and personal life.
💡 Key Takeaway: From confronting insecurities to embracing vulnerability, this episode challenges you to rethink how you approach leadership and creativity—always with a focus on heart, humor, and humanity, just like Ted.
👉 Subscribe for more Ted Lasso-inspired leadership insights and follow us for updates!
📚 Read it like Lasso: Get our book Lead It Like Lasso to explore leadership principles that transform your life and career.
📣 Connect with David Coffey and John Golden:
Website: InnovatorsCompass.org
#LeadershipPodcast #TedLasso #Headspace #InnovatorsCompass #LeadershipLessons #LeadItLikeLasso
Welcome to Lens of Leadership, our Ted Lasso rewatch podcast. Before we dive into this episode's leadership lessons, let's watch a quick recap.
Speaker 2:Season two, episode seven. Headspace starts with Roy all up in Keely's business. Nate's dad is unimpressed with the wonder kid. Ted makes attempt one at talking to Dr Sharon. Nate takes a verbal jab at Colin, but Colin is a strong and capable man. Little does Keely know that it is Sam. She is telling Rebecca to answer on banter. Ted tries again with Dr Sharon because he doesn't quit things, but he really lets her have it.
Speaker 2:Nate loves all of the attention around Wonder Kid and he tells Colin that he is like a hotel painting. He doesn't inspire or motivate. The look on Beard's face says he isn't a fan. Beard confronts Nate and Keely explodes on Roy. Ted comes back to Dr Sharon again. She tells him self-care can be scary and the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. She will be both his mentor and tormentor. Nate apologizes thanks to Beard. Jamie helps Roy see the error of his ways with Keely. So Roy makes Keely a bath and gives her some space. Nate is mocked on social and takes it out on Will. The episode ends at Nate storms off.
Speaker 3:Hi everyone, I'm Nick Coniglio.
Speaker 1:And I'm Marnie Stockman, and this is Lens of Leadership, a Ted Lasso rewatch podcast. We're the authors of Lead it Like Lasso, a leadership book for life, your life.
Speaker 3:And this podcast is an extension of many of the elements outlined in our book. We invite you to join us as we take a deep dive into each episode and explore the leadership principles as they play out in the series. And for today's episode we're diving into season two, episode seven Headspace.
Speaker 1:We are super excited because today we have two guests, dr David Coffey and John Golden. So they're both professors in the mathematics department at Grand Valley State University and we have been on their podcast Teaching, like Ted Lasso. So super excited to have you all on ours and would love for you to. I just gave the overlap if you were Venn diagrams of the two things I knew to be true about you. So I would like for you to. I just gave the overlap if you were Venn diagrams of the two things I knew to be true about you. So I would like for you all to add a little bit of color of what might also land in your own circle of the Venn diagram. So, david, I'll start with you.
Speaker 4:Oh, so I for several years was also the director of the Design Thinking Academy here at Grand Valley, and so I think that'll play into some of what we talk about a little bit later. And then John and I also, so there's another piece of the Venn diagram. John and I are also co-hosting another podcast because why not? Called Teaching in Tanzania, which is about our experiencing taking students from Grand Valley to a study abroad in Arusha, tanzania.
Speaker 1:So I saw in your bio that you had Tanzania and I thought did John go? I don't like I didn't know what that was the thing. So yes is the answer to that. I will add that to the middle of my mental Venn diagrams. John how about you?
Speaker 5:Well, and David is just taking over leadership of the program with Kathy so kind of big new steps with 10. That's awesome. So, in addition to being a teacher educator, my main interests at the university have been in diversity and inclusion and then math games so playful math and math art. So because I see those as great access points for any students.
Speaker 3:That's fantastic. I was just reading a story speaking of math games about this up-and. You know, maybe there's something there, john, where you can get involved with the PGA Tour and make millions of dollars like everybody else. That'd be fantastic.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you ever saw on Friends. I guess it was. Chandler was trying to, not Chandler, I can't remember.
Speaker 2:Joey yes, joey was trying to get an acting position.
Speaker 1:Thank, can't remember Joey yes, Joey was trying to get an acting position Thank you, An acting job and he had to look confused or perplexed and they said what do you do? And he said I just think about doing long division in my head and sort of really like thought through that for the record I might or might not have told my husband that if things got rough and labor that we could try that.
Speaker 3:but we never, I never had to do long division, but as an aside that we went pretty pretty uh far off the radar there, all over the place on that one for sure yeah, long Division was better. I like Long Division, so yeah, so I'm going to rein us in.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get back to the topic on hand.
Speaker 3:So this episode Headspace, a lot of stuff going on in this episode, a lot of different storylines. But you know we, when Marty and I were reviewing it, we're like wow, you know, Ted Lasso, you know, each episode there's one or two really good quotes that kind of make you think about things. And in this episode, you know, we stopped counting at five, right? So we thought we'd do something that we haven't done yet in one of these podcasts and we'll decide later if this is uh if it works, it works.
Speaker 3:So no pressure here, guys. Um, but we thought we'd read out five of the quotes that we kind of cataloged as we were watching the episode and see if there was any one of them that you maybe resonated with or, um, really thought was was was on point to anything that you're dealing with currently. So you guys, that's okay playing our reindeer games.
Speaker 5:Sure.
Speaker 3:Okay, all right, I'm going to read them out for the audience. We don't have visuals here, so if you can let me just get through them, that'd be great.
Speaker 2:So the first one is from Nate's dad, where he says you say, humility is not thinking less of yourself, thinking about yourself less.
Speaker 3:The second one was rebecca tequila, when they were talking about the issue keely was having with roy, which she said stop auditioning your complaints um. The third one was from from dr sharon.
Speaker 6:Well, I can't be your mentor without occasionally being your tall mentor absolutely love that one.
Speaker 3:Uh, then we have a true tedism moment it's a gift. That's why they call it the present y'all and then, finally, we have one where sam and rebecca were were feet apart with their phones and they said we've never been so connected, yet never further apart so I'm curious either one of you guys both you guys is is there any one of these that you're like? Yeah, that, that, that pulls me um the humility one really.
Speaker 5:uh, I like the sound of them and I think it made me think about um. Cs lewis talks about humility, um being having an accurate image of yourself, yeah, and I think that kind of goes hand in glove with this and the other thing I thought was interesting about that quote is how interesting I mean the source of it.
Speaker 5:We don't think about Nathan's father as necessarily a traditional source of wisdom on the show. It's very interesting to have him be the one to say that. And it's not a bad prescription for Nate at this point. No, it's not.
Speaker 3:And for the foreseeable future right, absolutely. How about you, david? That was really good John.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was so I'm going to have to up my game here I'm going to. There's a game here I'm going to. There's a couple of things I want to say first before that, and one is I think there ought to be a game where for each episode, it's kind of like oh, family feud, where people try to pick and decide what are the top quotes or scenes from that episode Cause as I looked at these or listened as you were saying it I was I would have picked almost all of those as well.
Speaker 4:If you'd asked me for five. Those are ones. Having just re-watched it, that was. These were ones that kind of struck home. So nicely done, right, whoever picked those? Nicely done.
Speaker 4:And then was thinking, john and I have talked about coming up with something for March Madness, where we have a bunch of lists of different quotes or scenes and then have different Ted Lasso aficionados come through and decide you know what is like the ultimate quote or the ultimate scene to share.
Speaker 4:So anyways, hopefully that will at least lift me up a little bit to what John was saying, because all I'm going to say is I really love Ted's one, because I have, for since the beginning of the semester, really been trying to practice that idea of living in the moment. Every now and then I'm finding myself getting overwhelmed. You know, I'm walking from the parking lot to my office and sometimes all I have to say is nope, I don't need to figure out what I'm going to do for this class or what I'm going to write for this paper or whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever. I just need to make it out of the parking lot and so really sort of focusing my attention on that helps me to get through those. And you know, just live that one day at a time.
Speaker 3:Love that. Did you guys think we missed any of the quotes? Was there anything that was obvious as you reflected on this episode that we missed?
Speaker 5:Well, Dr Sharon, that is such a great passage. So, right before she says that. She says you know the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 5:I thought those two things back to back that's quite a punch.
Speaker 1:When Ted says then, then your name should be truth.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:And then what I really loved about it is after she said the line, ted said oh, I love that. She said I knew you would. This is Karen, this is Sharon, giving a little right Like I'm going to give you a bad pun to show that I'm coming to your, like I'm willing to to give a little on this. But yeah, I love that one too. For that reason I also, as a side note, the stop auditioning your complaints.
Speaker 1:I don't find that to be an inspiring one, you know like that's not one I'm going to hang up on a wall type of thing, but I'm teaching a leadership development program and we talked about the first time. Somebody said in a meeting OK, we have probably admired the problem long enough and now we need to be solution focused, and I think that is super important. That whining will only get you so far. So stop auditioning your complaints and and you know Brene Brown's dare to lead and clear is kind that you have to be able to get beyond just fussing about it, especially fussing about it to the people that can't do anything about it, and you need to go and deal with the problem and talk about a solution. So that's why I like that when I thought that's fine, stop auditioning your complaints with us.
Speaker 5:Like you got to go talk to Rory about this, yeah, and because Rebecca goes there, she says go talk to the person who can do something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. What are we going to do with it? Apparently, keep smoking cigarettes and pipes in the boot room.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the only one that I and I don't think it's as powerful, but that just struck me is that both Keely in the boot room and Roy in the bathroom later talk about how the other one's the cat's's pajamas right so both of them are using, you know, without knowing, presumably believe that they did that they both use that uh, um, that name. So I thought that that was interesting, but no, I I really like those fives I didn't catch the second.
Speaker 1:I know keely said it, but I didn't hear Roy say it. That's fantastic.
Speaker 3:Those darn writers. They get us all the time.
Speaker 1:They're brilliant, aren't they? They're good. How many more times do we have to watch it Just because?
Speaker 3:I feel bad for the last one we mentioned, which is we've never been more connected and yet so far apart. I'll say that you know it's funny. We talk a lot about communication, right, and only because we struggled with it so often. We struggled with it so much that we created a communication guide. You know, to articulate how to best communicate with me or how you know whatever teammate fills out the communication guide. And although it's set in a little bit of a different context with Sam and Rebecca right there, it's amazing how much we struggle in today's digital age communicating. We have so much access to technology that we forget how to interact person to person. And I just love that.
Speaker 3:The show kind of picked up on that and kind of brought it through to us in the form of this whole banter between Rebecca and Sam.
Speaker 1:So I could go on. We could go on Ted Lasso quotes for a while but we will head to a question too.
Speaker 1:So in this next part, nick and I really appreciated the fact that they were using the storyline of Nate and the storyline of Roy to sort of show opposites, and I didn't pick up on it until Nick was mentioning it. So Nate very much cares about what people are thinking about him. He is scrolling through the feeds wanting to read all the wonder kid, wonder kin you know information out there where he was the hero. And Roy roy meanwhile walks into two or three rooms where he's being talked about and he's like why are you all jazz scatting? Were you talking about me? That's a great line, by the way. What's going on? Why are you just going?
Speaker 6:were you talking about me?
Speaker 1:yeah, we were talking about you, big whoop um and uh, and they're like yeah we were talking about. He's like okay, and and roy, I think, is kind of confident in of himself that he doesn't really care what people think, until the end when he realizes he didn't know what was going on. But anyway, thoughts on on that dichotomy in the show.
Speaker 4:So I think for me I was thinking about this and it relates back to an earlier scene where Nate wants to be famous, where he goes in and he asks Keely that he wants to be famous because he wants the window table at. Is it a Taste?
Speaker 1:of Athens. Taste of Athens In Tooting.
Speaker 2:In.
Speaker 1:Tooting, I'm sorry In tooting. In tooting, I'm sorry In tooting.
Speaker 4:And the response of Keeley, who has also been famous, right, yeah, she's been kind of famous for not being almost famous, almost famous.
Speaker 4:Yes, no, you don't want that, because everybody will be up in your stuff and going through your garbage and she goes through a litany, Anyways, what? When I was thinking about this question it was. What came to mind is that Roy has had that as well. Right, he's had people talking about him for his entire career, and so that's probably something that he's used to and has developed some systems to be able to deal with. Nate, on the other hand, has wanted people to be talking about him. That's sort of what his it seems like his desire is, this particular season especially. So I wonder if it has to do with that in terms of just what they're used to and some of it is the grass is always greener sort of thing maybe where Nate thinks oh, that would be great if they were always talking about me. And again it seems like Roy has come to the conclusion that it's none of his business what anybody else thinks about him, unless they think he's a frickin' fridge magnet or a needy fridge magnet.
Speaker 5:So if you think about it in terms of Nate wanting to be seen, how would you describe? What do you think Roy wants?
Speaker 4:Roy wants to be left alone.
Speaker 3:Almost doesn't't he see, I, I take it from the fact that that roy is so authentic he talks about and you know, I know this is gross, with the hair in a drain and all that, right, he, he knows everything about himself, right, and I think he was. He was shocked to understand when they were on the pitch and Jamie was talking about you know, I need space, I need space. And he finally realized that he was crowding. It was too much in Keely's business.
Speaker 6:Teammate. He needs you to come to the ball and support him. You all got that Respectful, eh, coach, that ain't what he needs from me. He needs me to give him space. What'd you say? The best thing I can do in that situation Is give him space. He's right, actually. Yeah, I know, I learned it from Pep. He got it from Cruyff, that's.
Speaker 3:Cruyff oh okay, englishman.
Speaker 6:Look, whatever the point is that Richard Doesn't need me to crowd him and since he's my teammate, I should trust him to do what's best, right?
Speaker 3:fuck right. And as soon as he realized that he, he, he knew how to rectify the situation, he's like, okay, I wasn't being I'm not sure if it was he wasn't being authentic to himself, but he, he didn't recognize he had that blind spot. You know a lot, of a lot of the most authentic and self-aware individuals. I think all of us, you know I'm not including myself in that, but I think some of the most authentic and self-aware individuals, I think all of us, you know I'm not including myself in that, but I think some of the most respected leaders that I work with who are very authentic and self-aware.
Speaker 3:Everybody has a blind spot and they don't necessarily see how others perceive them, and I think the fact that Roy just didn't see it was his biggest issue and why he was so upset finally to realize that everybody was talking about him, for the reason that they were talking about him, and I think to his credit, you know, another. Another aspect of the show is is around growth through feedback, and he, he got the feedback. He acknowledged the feedback, accepted it, accepted the fact that he had blind spot and he dealt with it, which is is, you know, typical Roy Kent. He's one of my favorite characters, right? So I don't know if I answered your question, john, but that's how I saw the Roy situation.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting. You mentioned the feedback piece, though, because Nate got feedback from Beard. You can do better. Right Went and apologized to colin right and then yelled at will at the end is that true, that is true yeah, that is true, but why?
Speaker 3:did he yell at will?
Speaker 1:well, because he thought will was mocking him with the wonder kid sure right but it's like, whereas roy took the feedback, did something like completely got it, became all the way self-aware on that and then nate didn't. You know, he didn't take the feedback the same way right, but nate was triggered.
Speaker 4:Right, john, you were, you were saying this earlier the, the two times he I mean mean hurt people, hurt people, that's you know that's also Brene Brown right. But John you were noticing he was triggered both times right.
Speaker 5:The thing with Colin was right after he didn't get any kind of notice from his father, and the thing with Will was right after he saw his first negative comment.
Speaker 3:Oh, right, right In the social feed, yep. A hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, go ahead, nick Sorry.
Speaker 3:No, I was just going to say I mean the whole storyline of Nate. You know, at this point it feels like they're really at the climax of his struggle, which is his ambition versus his insecurity. Right, and that is. He's just really stuck in this moment because, you know, he has taste, he's had a taste of that success, he's got the recognition. But at the same time, just like you guys were saying, right, who does he want the approval from first? Right, he's. Who does he want the approval from from first? Right, it's his, it's his dad, and then it's when he's talking to beard, it's okay. Well, ted didn't. Ted doesn't know that I was being Colin, right, I think he was saying something to that effect. So, his, his authority figures he really, he really wants to, um, to please. I don't know a better way to say it, but that's kind of the way I saw it.
Speaker 4:Well, the father figure is definitely right, yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I did think it was interesting. How I love I mean, they always have such great parallels, but in this episode it feels like even more somehow right. You know, rebecca and Sam are stuck, nate is stuck, ted is stuck, roy is stuck. So there are, you know, so many different people. Roy is the only one who doesn't get advice directly at him. You know, he recognizes it in something else, that somebody else says All the rest of them have somebody who's directly trying to intercede with them.
Speaker 3:I think that's a good point and I think you have provided the perfect lead-in to kind of where we wanted to go next, which is being stuck right, and that is something that Martin and I talk about often.
Speaker 3:It's something that we hope that all the work that we have done with our book is one of the many different remedies out there to help people kind of make progress and move forward with it. But we know that kind of as we were preparing to line up guests for this season, you guys were very interested in that specific topic of being stuck, and I know you went back and forth with Marnie in the setup to this. You were talking about a tool that you guys have been using our framework called Innovator's Compass, and it's not something that Marnie and I have had much experience with. We've taken a quick look at it, but we have some questions about it and we're wondering if this is something you'd be willing to talk about in terms of talking about the benefits, the approach, your experience using this tool, because it is intriguing, to say the least, from our perspective.
Speaker 5:Well, I'll say I'm a fan and a piker, but Dave is the expert in our locality.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 5:He won't let me say anything beyond that, but I find them constantly illuminating on this.
Speaker 4:Well, and so, as I said, this came about as a result of me being the director of the Design Thinking Academy here. Part of my role was to bring in speakers who had experience in design thinking or novel approaches. I was fortunate enough because I'm addicted to podcasts. I listened to a podcast about design thinking Design Thinking 101, and got a chance to hear one of the first guests that I heard, at least, was Ella Ben-Ur, and Ella is a design thinker.
Speaker 4:She's an engineer, mit-trained engineer, and she worked for IDEO, one of the biggest design thinking companies on the planet, and one of the things that, as she was working with people, is she looked at the sort of the typical design thinking process and she wanted to simplify it.
Speaker 4:She wanted to make it accessible to anyone, and so she worked really hard to sort of distill it down into these five questions. She put that onto a framework the compass to create this tool, and she talks about using it just about anywhere, anytime you want, where you up Thanks, john when you feel like you're stuck, or when you think like you're in a rut, stuck in a rut, or when you are also exploring uncharted territory, you know it helps to have a compass to be able to do that and this when we were going back and forth. This episode in particular, I mean, it starts with I got you bait right, which is, I feel, like a pretty clear nod to Groundhog Day, which is an example of someone being stuck right and working their way out of it little by little, making incremental progress by trying new things, experimenting, figuring things out, and it really, for me, connects with the idea of those five questions who's involved? What's happening? What matters most? What are some ways to try? What's a step to try?
Speaker 3:So obviously, in this meetup and getting exposed to the framework and researching it, I assume that you guys have used the Innovators Compass in some of your work. I mean, are there any specific use cases or examples? That is simple enough for us common people to understand on how you use it.
Speaker 4:Well, I know Marty is a teacher, right, and I would say that's the other nice thing about this is it's something. And you're a programmer, nick, right? Yeah, both of those things are essentially design tasks, and so I think that's part of the power. For me is that you've probably used elements of this already and it's about just making it because, as John held up, and I have my own right here, the little pocket compass, you can fit it in your hand and you just get used to asking those questions. The problem is that too often we ignore one of those questions or we don't.
Speaker 4:So the other thing about design thinking is it's meant to be a sort of flare and focus, divergent and convergent thinking. So I heard you talking last week or on the last episode, to Dan Ayers, and this idea of you know that sometimes taking a drink here and now and then helps, you know, level up the creativity. Well, you know why that is right. It's because it interferes with that part of our brain that helps us make good decisions, so that part of our brain that we didn't have when we were five years old and we also made, maybe, some interesting decisions, but it also let us be imaginative. And so there's a guy that I love did a TED Talk, george Land, and have you heard of George's work? It's the NASA Creativity Test.
Speaker 4:And so they gave this test. They figured you know, again talk about uncharted territory they figured, let's give this test and figure out who are going to be our creatives that are going to help us as we explore outer space. But first they gave it to some five-year-olds. 98% of the five-year-olds in this cohort scored high on creativity and they're like that's great, maybe the next generation is going to be extremely creative. So they decided to follow those students along. A little bit later, at 10, they did it again Five years later. That number is now down to 30% Same kids. And then it goes down five years later down to 12%. And then they quit it because the teachers were too depressed, so sad.
Speaker 4:But they gave it to individuals, adults. They've given it to lots of adults and it's only about 2% that find themselves creative. And his point, and the point of David Kelly, who you know started IDEO in the D school, and Picasso, is this idea of how do you find your kid right? And again, one way is to drink right. That's one way. It's not always the most useful way and it's not one that I would suggest to you know, as I'm trying to help my students find creativity. It's that divergent and convergent thinking. So knowing when to flare and no bad ideas at this point and when to focus. Okay, now we can narrow ourselves.
Speaker 4:And the compass I think of the compass mostly as a metacognitive tool. It helps me to recognize. Okay, when I'm in observations, when I'm asking that question of what's happening, I want to be open, I want to gather as much information as possible, but when I'm in principles, what matters most. Now I'm going to narrow in. So sorry, I did a lot of talking there. No, that was wonderful. And I'm going to narrow in. So sorry, I did a lot of talking there.
Speaker 3:No, that's that was wonderful, and I do appreciate that you brought up the fact that we talked about drinking for creativity a couple of times. That was nice. But so I'm curious, because I am familiar with design thinking to some extent, but I'm curious if you have to some extent, but I'm curious if you have. You know, as you've started to kind of work through this specific framework, the simplified framework, have you extended it beyond work? I mean, have you used it at all for any personal situations or anything in that regard?
Speaker 5:Well, I've tried it a little bit, but Dave has to have.
Speaker 3:No pressure, Dave.
Speaker 4:Well, so the example that my wife and I, kathy, give is that before the pandemic, we wanted to buy a travel trailer. We had our eye on this kind of trailer called a scamp, which are made to order and they're made only in one place, in Minnesota. And you go up there, fortunately being, you know, from Michigan and being close. So you go up there, you can look around plans online, blah, blah, blah. So long answer, nick, yes, my wife and I. When it got to the point of planning out what we were going to put in this, we went through the compass. So we started out and said so who's involved? That's the people in center. Well, obviously, kathy and I. And then we thought of our kids and our grandkids, particularly our grandkids, and based on that, we're like okay, so what does all this mean? We did lots of camping before, so we gathered data about what worked and what needed work when we were thinking about camping in the past, about camping in the past. Then we started thinking about what mattered most, and what mattered most for us based on it in the past was we wanted a place to sleep that wasn't on the ground. We didn't necessarily need a toilet, we didn't necessarily need a place to eat all of those things. We were comfortable using the existing, but we did not like sleeping on the ground anymore. We'd actually already transitioned into cots, but that was the. So we wanted a bed. So.
Speaker 4:So then we looked at the different possibilities and we thought about that. And now we're into ideas and we're not doing a lot of the details yet. Okay, we're back into flare. So we wrote out some of the ideas and then we came down and said, okay, let's try this piece out. And you know, we, we, we didn't want to actually build a lot of different of these. That would have gotten expensive. So we thought about prototypes and we thought about you know, just talking it through and and bring, and with the grandkids, we're like, oh, we might want the bunk beds. So and I knew from prior experience, I did not want a black water tank, I didn't need to worry about that, and so instead of doing the restroom, the bathroom, we did bunk beds. So we went through that process several times until we were ready to call them up and say here's what we wanted it to look like.
Speaker 5:And now they have Scampi McScamperson, scampi McScamperson.
Speaker 4:Scampi McScamperson.
Speaker 1:I assume that doesn't fit on the license plate.
Speaker 4:It doesn't, but Kathy did go online and find a decal. It's on the back.
Speaker 1:Nice, that's excellent. The grandkids love it.
Speaker 4:Oh, they do and they yeah. They talk about Scampi all the time he's. He's developed his own persona.
Speaker 3:So we've probably talked about this for a while, but for for people that are listening, we will include the link to Innovators Compass. It's innovatorscompassorg. We'll include that in the show notes and, for those that haven't been to the site yet, there are so many resources available on that site. It's not one of those paywalled sites where you know things are protected. There's really a lot of it helped me as kind of, as I was looking into researching for this episode.
Speaker 5:you know really, get a good understanding. We have a great interview with Ella from our Lasso podcast.
Speaker 1:Oh, we should link to that too, if you want to send me that one we can put it in there.
Speaker 4:I'll put that on too. Yeah, it was for our—so one of the things that we felt that Ted Lasso did a lot of, the show did a lot of, was this idea of experimentation, and so we wanted to hear from Ella about that idea of experimentation, and so we wanted to hear from Ella about that idea of experimentation. I mean, to your point, marnie, one of the things if I hadn't picked the one I did, I would have picked the quote that you were talking about, because it's good evidence of that. It felt like Keeley was stuck in observations, you know, when she's just continuing to tell here's what's happening, here's what's happening, and the advice that Rebecca gives is essentially, get out of just observations and try something right. You need to talk it through. And instead she doesn't, and so she jumps just right to that experiment when she's angry and she hasn't thought about different ways of handling it and she hasn't thought about what's most important about talking about it, and so she's just jumped from observations to an experiment and it, you know it blows up.
Speaker 1:It's sort of funny that you mentioned the notion of, like, lots of ideas, because one of my favorite episodes is when they do the trick plays yeah Right, and, and Ted hasn't, like what else? Well, I mean, you know they have a whole list and if you haven't, if you, even if you listen to the episode, you still should go watch the screenshots of it, because they list even you know even more trick plays and the whole notion of, like the divergent thinking. Let's list every trick play we've ever heard of and then we'll start narrowing into what makes sense. So they're good, they pull threads through all of these episodes. But since I said trick play, now I feel like I have to ask the magic question If there was a trick play called the David coffee, if there was a trick play called the David Coffee, what would it be?
Speaker 4:So one of the things as an educator that I've really been striving to do is focus on making things reasonable for teachers and reasonable for students and not do wild crazy things. And so if there was a trick play called the Dave coffee, it might also be called the subtle shift, right? So what's the subtle shift that you can make that takes something that's existing and make it different? So I did one of these today, not intentionally because we were going to be on this, but because it sort of fit, and it was like we were actually watching one of our podcasts where we had somebody talking about teamwork in one of my classes, and afterwards I wanted them to reflect on what they'd heard about complex instruction and building thinking classrooms, and I said so in the past.
Speaker 4:What would this look like if I wanted to make sure that you had been paying attention and that you had learned something from this? And they're like you'd give us a test, give us a quiz. I said and what do you know about me that? What are my feelings about tests and quizzes? You hate them. I go exactly. So I can't do that, but you know what I can do. I can make you write the test. What would your test be for you? Whether or not you paid attention or what you thought was important, and stuff like that. So they've seen thousands of tests, so it's easy for them to think about that subtle shift of answering questions to creating questions.
Speaker 1:Love that Did they come up with good ones.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah I mean and it's interesting because, right, you look at the questions they did and you know what they thought was important, right, and you can build on that later, or yeah, so it was interesting.
Speaker 1:Sometimes. I think it's just like they often score themselves harder. I bet they asked harder questions too, like more deep thinking questions, because they had to play the gigatron. Thanks for that, folks. That'll be helpful.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there are a lot more of what-if questions and how might you those sorts of things. So, yeah, I was really impressed.
Speaker 1:All right, so the David Coffey is the subtle shift. I like it. How about the John Golden, the trick play called the John Golden, what is?
Speaker 5:that that was such a good answer.
Speaker 4:I'm still trying to make up for the humility one John.
Speaker 5:So one of the things I am known for is falling asleep inappropriately. So I was really thinking trick play. You have Jamie lie down and pretend to take a nap on the pitch, and then he springs up.
Speaker 1:Right at the right time.
Speaker 5:And then, if you really wanted to commit to it, you could have him actually take a nap on the pitch.
Speaker 1:I think that's fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I thought like when you said that David said accidentally did this earlier today that you were going to fall asleep mid-podcast and we'd have to say, David, can you go over to John's?
Speaker 1:office and wake him back up.
Speaker 5:We're recording. See, you guys are too good a host right, there hasn't been a moment. If you were rattling on about something I would have been out.
Speaker 1:Oh well, I can rattle on. Oh, that's fantastic.
Speaker 3:Guys, we can't thank you enough for spending the time with us. It's really been fun.
Speaker 5:I really enjoyed re-watching the episode, and to get to talk about it with people with insights like yours was a pleasure. Well, thank you.
Speaker 1:What's super delightful also is you can out quote us. So it's fun. We don't have to re-explain 17 minutes of it to get to the quote. You're just jumping all around. It's really great having you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 5:Although I went the whole podcast without finding an opportunity to say darn tootin' Vladimir Putin.
Speaker 3:That was our sixth quote.
Speaker 1:That we were going to put up there yeah. Oh, such good ones.
Speaker 4:Now that you say that, the one quote that I had thought and it always strikes me is the one that Jamie makes about trusting your teammate and it always strikes me as the one that Jamie makes about trusting your teammate. I think that that is a powerful quote from a standpoint of any sort of leadership, whether we're talking about in the classroom or the boardroom or whatever. I mean this idea of being able to trust our teammates.
Speaker 1:That's funny because I always take notes on the whole episode and at the top of this page I actually wrote the whole thing out of. His teammate needs space. He doesn't need them to crowd him, Just trust him to do what's best.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you All right. Well, I think we will call that a wrap and super excited. Thanks so much.
.jpg)
