Lens of Leadership: A Ted Lasso Rewatch Podcast
Marnie Stockman and Nick Coniglio, authors of the book Lead it Like Lasso, dig into each episode of Ted Lasso with a lens of leadership. Each podcast starts with a fun quick-clip summary of the episode. Marnie and Nick tie together the leadership principles from Ted Lasso, their own business successes, thought leaders and everyday advice to help individuals level up as they lead themselves (and others). This is a great podcast for TedHeads! There are many other Ted Lasso podcasts out there - this is the "same but different."
Lens of Leadership: A Ted Lasso Rewatch Podcast
Handling Tough Conversations and More (Including Rickrolling) | S2 E10
Join us for another insightful episode of Lens of Leadership, a Ted Lasso rewatch podcast. In this episode, we delve into Season 2, Episode 10, "No Weddings and a Funeral," with a special guest from the UK, Shane Evans. Shane, an HR and leadership coach, shares his deep passion for leadership and Ted Lasso, perfectly blending his expertise with the show's themes.
Episode Highlights:
⚽ Leadership in Life's Complex Moments: Exploring how leadership principles manifest even in personal crises, reflecting the adage "leadership is life."
⚽ Character Deep Dives: Shane offers his perspective on Ted's vulnerability and the development of other characters in a poignant episode that mixes personal loss with leadership lessons.
Special Guest Insights:
Shane brings his extensive background in HR and leadership coaching to analyze the intricate dynamics of character development and leadership in the series.
✅ Key Discussions: The role of vulnerability in leadership, handling tough conversations, and the impact of personal history on leadership style.
✅ Leadership Lessons from Ted Lasso: Shane connects pivotal moments from the episode to broader leadership strategies, emphasizing the importance of support, vulnerability, and authenticity.
💡 Key Takeaway: This episode highlights how true leadership involves navigating personal and professional challenges with grace and understanding, proving that how you handle small moments reflects your approach to life and leadership.
📚 Read it like Lasso: Enhance your understanding of leadership with our book, Lead It Like Lasso, inspired by the show’s profound lessons.
📣 Connect with Shane Evans: Follow Shane on LinkedIn for daily insights on leadership, and don’t miss his popular Ted Tuesday posts that align with themes from Ted Lasso.
Welcome to Lens of Leadership, our Ted Lasso rewatch podcast. Before we dive into this episode's leadership lessons, let's watch a quick recap.
Speaker 2:Season 2, Episode 10. No weddings and a funeral starts with a snuggle for Sam and Rebecca. Rebecca's mom unexpectedly arrives announcing that Rebecca's dad has died. Isaac rallies the team for the funeral. Keely and Roy wax philosophical on funerals. Ted has a panic attack while getting ready. Rebecca is touched to see the entire team not wearing trainers. Sassy makes it no secret what she thinks of Rupert, and she and Keely get Rebecca to spill her guts about Sam. Ted tells Dr Sharon everything and Rebecca tells her mom everything. Ted and team help Rebecca to spill her guts about Sam. Ted tells Dr Sharon everything and Rebecca tells her mom everything. Ted and team help Rebecca out with her eulogy. Jamie and Roy both love Keely. Rebecca calls it off with Sam.
Speaker 3:As the episode ends. They rickroll us all. Hi everyone.
Speaker 1:I'm Nick Coniglio and I'm Marnie Stockman, and this is Lens of Leadership, a Ted Lasso rewatch podcast. We're the authors of Lead it Like Lasso, a leadership book for life, your life.
Speaker 3:And this podcast is an extension of many of the elements outlined in our book. We invite you to join us as we take a deep dive into each episode and explore the leadership principles as they play out in the series. And for today's episode we're diving into season two, episode 10, no Weddings and a Funeral.
Speaker 1:And we are super psyched to have Shane Evans with us today. So Shane is joining us. From across the pond in the UK, he's an HR and leadership coach whose mission is to help individuals and teams unlock their full potential, sound familiar and foster amazing cultures. So when Shane first connected with us I believe you used the phrase I'm a bit obsessed with Ted Lasso and I'm equally obsessed with leadership We'd love to chat, so chat we did, and we enjoyed it so much that that is why we asked Shane to join us for this Rewatch podcast. So, Shane, we're super excited to have you. How'd we do Tell folks what I missed in that intro?
Speaker 4:Well, that's a solid 9.9 out of 10. I think you've nailed a lot of the stuff. I think the two things the passion at Ted Lasso, which we're going to talk about, and the passion about leadership comes from working particularly with lots of leaders in various different industries in my career, and the thing that we always talk about is that people seem to be the central focus of whatever industry you're in and the leadership of those people in the culture that works in those organizations tends to be a solid pattern through anywhere that you work.
Speaker 3:Love that You're speaking our language right there, Shane. So before we dive into the episode, question for you have you ever been Rickrolled?
Speaker 4:Not during the funeral, but I have been Rickrolled. In fact, my kids seem to want to do it a lot to me at the moment.
Speaker 3:Okay, perfect, so that will help us us. Well, we don't need to do any video editing magic or anything like that. But, uh, so you mentioned earlier that you know you're obsessed with ted lasso, but tell us what you love about the show. I mean, what, how, how does it connect with you? What's, what's the thing?
Speaker 4:oh, well, I think, I think I was a bit late to the party and I guess this side of the UK I'm not sure Ted is as big as he is in the States yet we should fix that, but go on.
Speaker 4:I'm trying, I'm really trying. Someone came into work a workplace I was at and talked about this thing being a goldfish and I was like, well, what's that about? And he said, oh, you've got to watch Ted Lasso. And I was like, well, what's that about? And he said, oh, you've got to watch Ted Lasso. And roughly about the same time, one of my favourite musicians in the UK, a guy called Frank Turner, one of his songs was part of the advert for one of the series of Ted Lasso. I put those two things together and started watching Ted.
Speaker 4:And you know what it's like these days where you can just binge watch things. And I started watching and probably three days later I'd finished and I just I loved everything about it and the thing that cemented the joy and the thing that really resonated with me, you know, towards the end and hopefully there's no spoilers, hopefully everyone's watched it is the, the book from Trent Crimm to Ted, and can you give me some feedback? And of course, coach Beard had put multiple markers throughout the book and Ted just in a short note. And that note said you might want to think about changing the title. It's not about me and it never was, and I think once I saw that, as much as I'd loved the show, it just resonated everything that I think is important about leadership, about being in HR, about running an organization. That was the thing that made me go. It's, everything's just come together and I'm going to have to watch again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then you've probably just not stopped since then.
Speaker 4:If you're like I don't know how much what, I don't know what lap I'm on, but I've done a few laps. Let's put it that way.
Speaker 1:I hear you. So today we are looking at no weddings and a funeral, which, at first glance, really doesn't seem to be about leadership, except for the fact that one of the things that Nick and I talk about all the time is leadership is life, and with that, how you do anything is how you do everything. So even in personal situations, your character really does still stand out. So if I were to ask you to pick a character from the episode and talk about one of their traits that we've seen in this episode or other episode, like how does their character play out? What do you think?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I've done something about this and I went multiple places. First thing, when you say leadership is life, I can't not say it, but in Danny Rojas' voice right?
Speaker 1:That is exactly what we were hoping you would do, so that if our plan is working.
Speaker 4:Every time. Hopefully we'll talk about Danny a little bit, but I had to go for Ted, right, and it might be, I'm sure, a lot of your guests have gone for Ted when they've had this opportunity. But I just think in this episode particularly, we see a different side to him. We see him go deep on his emotions, we see the pure vulnerability that he's always had to a certain extent.
Speaker 1:but we see it at another level and I think it just makes you love and appreciate ted even more yeah, this one, I mean people talk about it on on the social media all the time about the, the feels that, uh, that the show brings and this episode for sure, uh, absolutely brings the feels, and with Ted you just really connect with who he is. You can see his character and the authentic version of himself.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean I'm not a TV critic, but even as a show, a standalone show, when you see the parts that are interwoven just in that episode, it's a remarkable piece of television, I think and that probably makes it sound like I know anything about television making, but I genuinely don't. But you get to see so many characters and the leadership elements that they have in life just through one episode. I think that's a really clever thing to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we are constantly amazed at how that comes across and we can talk about that one thing. You know how brilliant the writers are in every single episode it constantly amazes us. But this particular episode, really, there was a theme across the board around having tough and awkward conversations, and there were so many of them, whether it was Rebecca telling Sam that they needed a break, or Jamie going in and telling Keely that he loves her. Another one with Rebecca about telling her mom about the affair that her dad was having, finally unloading that. And you mentioned Ted right, really being vulnerable and opening up on the detail, about the details of his dad's passing. You know, I don't know anybody, myself included, who really likes to have tough or awkward conversations. So I'm curious in your work, just in your life, is there something that you have in terms of advice around this topic? You know anything that you can share?
Speaker 4:I think, firstly, I think, if I think about my career in HR in the early days and throughout my career in HR and then moving on to kind of doing consultancy work in different organizations, this is a common theme and pattern that comes through most of the leaders that I've ever worked with and I don't think anyone has that conversation too early. It's usually they've waited too late to have a difficult conversation and I think, partly, I think, it can be a good thing, right, because it means that that leader might care, it might mean that they genuinely want what's best for the other person. Um, but I think you know, for all leaders, if they could have those conversations maybe a little bit earlier, I think would wouldn't do any harm. Um, I think it's being aware of the circumstances in which the conversation's happening. I'm thinking about Jamie in a funeral probably wasn't the best place to have that conversation with Keely.
Speaker 1:I finally think I'm becoming the best version of myself. The kind of man that you always knew that I could be the kind of man that you always knew that could be.
Speaker 3:I know this is a mad shitty thing to do, but I love you.
Speaker 4:Keeler, surrounded by people, and I'm sure if Jamie could examine that and think was that the right thing?
Speaker 4:But he was overcome with emotion. Right, it makes him human and I've seen some leaders who have had these conversations and had them really badly, and I've worked with leaders that haven't had the conversation at all, and I'm never sure which one's worse to not have it or to have it really badly. One's worse to not have it or to have it really badly. Um, and I think an encouragement for for all leaders is to be brave and bold enough to remember the intent of why they need to have the conversation, because generally, you know, leaders don't want to have that conversation to pee people off. Yep, didn't swear then. So, people, they're doing it to help them grow, to develop that person, to point them in the right direction. But quite often a leader will forget that in the moment of saying to the person here's my intent, I care about you, I want to have this difficult conversation. Sometimes they'll go straight in for the kill, straight in for the jugular, and it's equally as bad as not having the conversation at all, I think.
Speaker 3:You know, as you kind of were talking through those scenarios, I want to circle back to the brilliance of the writers as I'm thinking about this, because they, you know, they presented this topic in so many different scenarios and they presented different lessons. I don't know if this is just me, I just want to talk through this, right? You know, when you talk about Jamie and Keely again, probably not the right time for Jamie to do it, but you know it showed that it was necessary being uncomfortable with Keely was necessary for growth. You know he talked about I figured out best version myself and closure he needed some closure. You know he talked about I figured out best version myself and closure he needed some closure.
Speaker 3:And then with Rebecca and Sam, the way she kind of put things on hold was with care and integrity. And then it gives you the counter example with Rebecca and her mom. They show us that avoiding the tough conversations it leads to resentment and a lack of trust. I mean so the writers, they give you all these tools to kind of to figure out right all the things that we're trying to say, which is, have it sooner rather than later, and kind of do it the right way. And I, just, I, just I have so much admiration for how they present things absolutely.
Speaker 4:I mean, there's some really subtle bits of brilliance in having conversations throughout that episode alone. Right, and I'm I'm delivering some organizational feedback to to one of my clients, which is about feedback because, again, it's one of the one of the themes that comes through a lot of the work that I do and organizations will bring me in and say we want to help leaders to be brave enough to have the difficult conversations, great, but we forget it's a two-way street, right, feedback is about taking it and receiving it. And the example of Rebecca and Sam in the closet having the conversation Sam handles it really well. It's clear that he's hurting, but at the end of that conversation he says just got to warn you about something. I'm only going to get even better, or words to that effect.
Speaker 2:I understand take as long as you need, it's ok thank you, but, rebecca, it's okay, thank you, but, rebecca, there's something I should warn you of. I'm only going to get more wonderful.
Speaker 3:I know.
Speaker 4:And that, I think, is a level of brilliance in how to accept feedback, to give a bit of humor, to note it, to make sure that you've listened to that feedback and to to make sure that people don't leave the situation hurt in some way.
Speaker 1:So first, I'm super salty that I've watched the show twice more this week and I still didn't. I didn't pick up on what Nick said. That is brilliant that they showed the counterexample which you and I talk about all the time. Right, the counterexample somehow at times proves the case to have the feedback straight away, but with Rebecca's mom and Rebecca bottling it up, that was. That was well caught there, mr Coniglio. I think that was brilliant.
Speaker 4:He's done his homework.
Speaker 1:He has done his homework, Darn it. I tried to do my homework, but he is definitely better at that than I am for sure. I think the other important part that is unsaid here just because it wouldn't have come up here, is that you have to have the conversation and not in a text message. Right, you should deal with it immediately, but not via text message, and I think that's super important. Again, it wouldn't have happened at a funeral, but it has got to be face-to-face not always in a closet at a funeral, but needs to happen for sure.
Speaker 1:You mentioned chatting about Danny. I think this would be a good time to talk about Danny, because we want to talk about the theme of showing up for your teammates, right, supporting those around you. So we'd love to talk about how that played out in this episode and then what that looks like in business. I mean, not all of us have to go buy dress, shoes in order to support our boss, et cetera. So what do you say on supporting your teammates?
Speaker 4:oh, I think again all of the organizations I work with. If you imagine three circles, and in the center of that circle is me, and then there's an outer circle with we and us, and then the outer circle it's it and the project and the task. So often, as leaders, we focus on the project and the task. So often, as leaders, we focus on the task and what has to be done. And actually, you know, we need to flip that and focus on people and then the team first, in order to get the culture right, to get the stuff done, and you know the way that the team come together and it's a great scene.
Speaker 4:There's two great scenes actually, actually. One is in ted's office, which would be great to talk about, and one is in the locker room and isaac shows leadership. So we'll go into this funeral as a team, right? He says, oi, we're going like it's not negotiable. This is what I expect. And then it was you're not gonna. You're gonna wear a suit, a shirt, a tie and no trainers I love the shirt too, for jamie, you're wearing a shirt you wear a shirt and you know.
Speaker 4:The only kickback from the team was about the trainers, right, which I know is a bit tongue-in-cheek given that the footballers yeah, there is the comment from colin. I don't have time to queue outside for the special trainers. It's dress shoes. No one ever wants them and I think the way that the team realized this is bigger than us. This is about rebecca. This is about showing up for her as a team and the counter, I guess, and the bit that I love about this episode is when the bus pulls up outside the funeral.
Speaker 1:How many of them came? All of them.
Speaker 4:And Rebecca goes up to Higgins and go oh're here, how many of them came and he went well, they all did. And then she went and none of them are wearing trainers and it meant so much to her the fact that they'd all shown up in. You know, in spite of it was a little bit uncomfortable and you know we could talk about Danny was the most uncomfortable in that episode, right, he was in tears, like I can't remember what does he say? Jesus has no space in this conversation with the flesh. He took the pain that he was in, but he still shows up, regardless of that right.
Speaker 1:Regardless of the pain.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and what's that?
Speaker 1:look like oh, go ahead.
Speaker 3:No, I was just going to add you know, and I love that, yeah, and what's that look like? Oh, go ahead. Obviously, dr Sharon being there for Ted. That is somewhat of a doctor-patient relationship, but still all the same. And it talks to the fact, if you think back to season one, I don't think. I mean, do you guys think the team would have showed up if this would have happened?
Speaker 3:But Rebecca, she has built the trust within the team, she has transformed herself, right, and she's allowed to put herself in that position. And I think about the days, at least my early days in leadership I don't know if my entire team would show up to an event like that, right, and I think, as a leader, you have to start to become conscious of you know, am I checking it, not checking the box? Am I? Am I establishing the trust with my team that they will be there for me in my moment of need? Not only because that helps me, right, but that helps, I think, kind of what you were saying with the circles earlier, us, Right? And and what we ultimately want to do.
Speaker 1:So that's interesting that you know, cause we said at the beginning you wouldn't think that this episode was about leadership, but it really is a sign of Rebecca's growth in her own leadership, to your point, Nick, that everybody showed up for her where the first season they wouldn't have.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely. I cut you off, m Marnie, earlier. Was that what you were going to say?
Speaker 1:Probably not, but I was doing a better job being a good listener than being a good talker, so I have no idea. It'll probably come back to me at some point, but I'm not worried about it Okay.
Speaker 4:It's a sign of a great conversation, though, right when you're so stuck in listening and thinking that's a really good point've you forget about the reasons why you're here?
Speaker 4:yeah, yeah yeah I'm totally good with whatever it was I forgot I think you know, with regards showing up and coming back to the character that I picked, you know ted was at his lowest. Yes, he's asked for help, but he's asked for help so that he can get to the place he needs to be for the team and for Rebecca, and I think surely that's a great example of a team showing up. When they're at the darkest, they still show up for each other for each other.
Speaker 3:Now, I completely agree and I'm curious because I see our book in the background and you've read it, Did you? On the character assessment, did you take the character assessment and did you end up as Ted?
Speaker 4:I was. Ted and Sam were my top two.
Speaker 3:That's a pretty good combination right there.
Speaker 4:I was happy with that Obviously had to answer them in the correct way for me. We do that sometimes with personality assessments, though right, you fill them out and you go, oh really, I didn't want that one.
Speaker 4:But I was really happy with that because I just think you know the optimism that Ted shows throughout all of the series, even in probably his most challenging. There's the bit where he brings humour in. He is really emotional and he says I don't know if it's illegal, dr Sharon, but can I hug you? She goes, yeah, of course, and then he goes. Are you still going to charge me for the session? And she goes, yes, and he goes. I admire your integrity, like that optimism. That use of humor, um, I think is really special when he's at his lowest and Dr Shan said something along the lines of I'm sorry that your dad did that to you, he says, and my mum? So? He's always thinking about other people and I think that bit really resonated with me throughout the whole series. So I was kind of glad that that, that I'm glad that I'd answered the questions correctly in the book.
Speaker 1:That's interesting because when we talk about the characters and Nick and I just have done this at a college recently that the piece we highlight for Ted is that one of his weaknesses is he's so worried about other folks that he doesn't take the time for his own self-care, which is what led to the panic attack. So I think that it definitely is one of his strongest character traits that we see play out lots of ways. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Shane. Was there anything else in this episode that stuck out to you that you wanted to discuss?
Speaker 4:There was one quite subtle one, which is in ted's office, right at the start of the episode. Because you've got the diamond dogs, with keely, with roy, and of course death is the thing that combines us all as humans, like it's going to happen to us all. But their personal viewpoint on death, I think, highlights some of their innate personality, thoughts and being. Because you've got Ted's words of something along the lines of I used to believe that bad people went to hell, good people went to heaven. Now I realise we just all do both, so I just hope that he's happy wherever he is.
Speaker 4:You've got Roy's quite dark view on you live, you die. That's it Game over. Keely's got quite a nice view of I want my body to be decomposed into a tree and my loved ones can eat my fruit. You've got Higgins who wants to be reincarnated into a world full of animals and he could sit at his cat's feet. And then you've got like a glimpse as to what's to come with Nate right, because he says I want to be reincarnated as a tiger and I'll ravage anyone that looks at me in the wrong way. And I think it's really interesting to get that glimpse of their characters from one conversation like that. So I thought that was a lovely thing to kind of for the writers to put in again, because if we're people watchers like many of us are you get to see the real people when they don't realise people are watching them right so here's the moment where I'm kicking myself because that is, I mean, that's awesome insight.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I, as you explain it and I was thinking about it, cause I, you know, I remember the scene right. It's very beginning, you know, right after they found out the news, and I was like you're, you're absolutely right. It gives us a glimpse into into all the characters and where they come from and where they're going. That's awesome. How about you, marnie Did?
Speaker 1:you have anything. Well, the only, the only part of that that I had caught was the bit about Nate when he says the tiger, right, you're like now. Did I catch it? The first time I watched it?
Speaker 4:Probably not, but in the second go round, when you're starting to watch and you going like, ah, there he is again. Yeah, I think there's. You know there's two, two other scenes that really strike me in in the episode one I'll come to last because I think we're all thinking about it, but I think the other one is is roy, when he makes the kind of apology to keely in the funeral just after Jamie said that he loves her. Roy, listen, I was a prick today.
Speaker 1:Making dumb fucking jokes is just death makes me uncomfortable.
Speaker 4:Roy went up and I think he's done some learnings, which shows his arc of his character right. It shows that he had some beliefs. And then he showed some vulnerability in that apology conversation because he said I'm sorry, I you know, when my grandfather died I prayed every single day that I could see him just once. And you get to learn. Actually he was hurting and that was his macho British football character that was saying death is just death. That was saying death is just death and I thought that was a lovely scene to show that even leaders get it wrong sometimes. You can't always have the right conversation all the time and if you do get it wrong, there's nothing to stop you going back and saying I've learned some stuff about myself over the past hour day week. I'm putting it right. So I think that was really important to notice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, week, I'm putting it right.
Speaker 3:So I think that was really important to notice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, you know, the other thing that I saw and I've watched this episode so many times but I've watched it again last night just one more time and I never really connected the dots but the whole notion of the fact that a lot of times pain clouds perspective.
Speaker 3:Right, ted was so focused on his dad's suicide he really forgot what a great dad he actually was and he recanted the story about not reading the book and his dad helping him helping with that. And that was paralleled with Rebecca. Right, she was so focused, that of the pain that her dad's affair, you know, had on her and her mom that at the very end she remembered, you know, ted reminded her that you know it was really her dad's ability to bring her joy that that she had completely forgotten because pain really just clouded her, her memory of everything. And I think I know that hit me because I think we all have those scenarios, situations where you know something you felt, you felt like somebody has done wrong or or something to that effect, and it it really clouds all the the good memories that you have with people. So I took that away from this episode.
Speaker 1:Even since this one's a funeral, I think it brings it out more. A couple of times we've watched a family member really ill with cancer and passing away. It took a while before you could remember the good stuff because you just were clouded in that piece. I managed to say that without tearing up or cracking, but it was close, just for the record. Anyone playing along at home home I was on the edge of that. Um, so I'm gonna switch gears completely and say shane, if there was a trick play, aka life hack, called the shane evans, what would it be?
Speaker 4:can I just talk about one more scene before?
Speaker 1:yeah, because we can't go without talking about being rickrolled?
Speaker 4:Yeah, 100%, because we can't go without talking about being Rickrolled. Right, we can't go without saying about the funeral scene. And actually there's a lovely video that I play in a lot of leadership development programs, which is I call it Naked Dancing Guy. But the video is basically a guy on a hill in a music festival, topless, and he's dancing away and the video is about him.
Speaker 4:He's, he's making some movements, he gets one follower, the first follower, of course, him on his own, he's just a lone nut got the first follow and then a momentum is created and it's exactly the same and I'll probably switch to using the Ted Lasso scene, where she's Rebecca's given a eulogy and she starts doing you know, never going to give you up, and she gets a bit emotional. Everyone's like what's going on, and I think the fact that Ted got there, had her back, tells us about how important it is to show up. And then, importantly, when she was really struggling, he started singing along. Second follower comes in, starts to create momentum, keely joins in and before you know it, the whole church is singing rick astley, never going to give you up. And I think that probably sums up leadership. Right is who's the first follower? Take them along along on the journey and then create momentum.
Speaker 3:You've just done it again, shane. First of all, brilliant, and you know, marnie and I are very familiar with that video the first follower video, and darn.
Speaker 1:I wish I would have connected those dots I know he got us again.
Speaker 3:Darn, you're good at this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's excellent yeah.
Speaker 2:And does anybody?
Speaker 1:remember when they realized they were being Rick rolled, like I? You know, cause when you hear the song the first time, the mom's playing it throughout the house. Did you know you were being Rick rolled? Was it in the funeral or was it at the end when Rebecca? Saying is that really Rick? Rick asked like I think I think it was at the funeral and I was like, oh my gosh, they're Rick rolling us. But do either of you remember the first time you saw it?
Speaker 4:For me I think it was the video cassette at the end when there's the baby video and then it goes into Rick Astley.
Speaker 1:I think yeah.
Speaker 4:We got one.
Speaker 3:We got one. No, I think I might have picked it up in the funeral video and then it goes into rick assy.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, we got me. I think me as well. No, I think I think I might have picked it up in the funeral. I thought because I remember feeling pretty good about it like I wonder how many other people realize what they just did to us. Those darn writers were in a funeral and they're still getting us. That's excellent. So anything else I don't want to. No All right Shane Evans.
Speaker 4:What is it? Shane Evans? So I've come up with a trick play called the trust triangle, because I think it highlights some of the stuff in this episode, right, and some of the things I'm passionate about and some of the things I really work with the teams. One is vulnerability things that I really work with the teams. One is vulnerability, so encouraging leaders and individuals in a team to be vulnerable, because then you're building trust. So the second part of the triangle is about trust. You know, if you think about a lot of leadership models, like the five dysfunctions of a team, it's all built on trust, right?
Speaker 4:If I don't trust the person I'm working with, whether that's AFC Richmond or whether that's, I don't trust the person I'm working with, whether that's afc richmond or whether that's uh, I don't know a manufacturing site. The person next to me I have to be able to trust that they know what they're doing. Um, and once you've got that trust, you've got psychological safety. And for any of us that are interested in psychological safety, the third part of the triangle it's you know, there's so much data out there now that we have to be psychologically safe as human beings in order to get our best performance out.
Speaker 4:So I think developing those three parts of the triangle is a really key way in my life. So, if it's even not work related, you know, am I showing up for my kids? Are they seeing vulnerability in me? Do they trust me as their dad? Do they like, do I do the things that I say that I'm going to do? Are they safe to be 100 percent themselves? And I think if, if we could get those three bits of the pyramid or the triangle right, I think we would, we would do OK, we would do okay.
Speaker 1:You know, you've made me think because Nick and I've talked about this before. We talk with a lot of high school and college age students in working on developing their core values, and the interesting piece is, so many times children that age, there's angst with their parents at that point, right, but a couple of things have to happen. First, the children are realizing their own core values. They have to figure out how they fit into their family culture. But the other piece is in order to give your child psychological safety, right, you spend the first, well, all the years of their life helping them be safe, so you can't appear too vulnerable, right, because you're trying like you've got to be able to solve all the problems when they're two years old.
Speaker 1:You don't get to be vulnerable to your two-year-old. You have to be super empowered, right, to keep them safe. And at some point around those teenage years, there's this all right, how am I going to be vulnerable without being weak? And how am I going to say no to my eight-year-old? Can't be on all their cell phone all the time, right, right, but still be vulnerable in other ways. And I think that balance is super hard and we talk about leadership being everywhere, and that really just came to mind in that trust triangle.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know, even us parents were human, you know, same as every leader, and I've done it myself where I've thought about, you know, my child's having too much time on the iPad and there's me with my phone in my hand Like I've got to go first, I've got to role model, that stuff, right. So I think it's about us being 100% comfortable with who we are as parents, as leaders, knowing that we're not perfect, understanding that chances are our children are emulating something we've said or done at some point in their little lives. Right, we have developed a lot of those beliefs and there's a great saying that I read about the other week, which was parents go through their whole lives wanting a thank you and kids go through their whole lives wanting an apology. Because we just look at things differently, right, and we get to our older selves and we think why did they do that, why did they miss that? Exactly the same as Dr, sharon and Ted, and I'm so glad you brought that up, because we just forget the good stuff sometimes, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that is excellent. Well, I your trick play. I think the shane evans is one for the uh, the leadership books, for sure. Um. So tell folks where they can find you, get in touch with you, hear about you every single day for the year on linkedin. Tell them how to get a hold of you and who you like to work with you know, when you start something and you think, oh God, what have I done?
Speaker 4:What have I done? What have I created? So a good place is LinkedIn. So if you search up Shane Evans coaching on LinkedIn or Facebook are the two main places where I'm at. To reference what Marnie was talking about there, I guess I've challenged myself to post on LinkedIn and Facebook every day. Well, it was every day in January and then it's gone to most days. I haven't missed one yet and we are day 38. So I haven't missed one yet, but they're good places to just check out the stuff that I talk about and most often than not, it's about leadership or it could be about TED. I sometimes do a TED Tuesday because they've gone down really well and actually some of the people who have read the TED Tuesday posts have then messaged me and gone. I love that and actually that's been a great place to recommend your book for a lot of the people that follow me, Because I've got to say it's an amazing book.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're very kind.
Speaker 3:And we'll. We'll include, if you're okay with it, your LinkedIn profile link in the show notes. So that's, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're super excited that you joined us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we can't thank you enough. This has been great. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 4:Thank you for having me. I was. I was so worried that I was going to be speaking for hours and hours and hours, because I can if you want me to, but the stuff that you've taught me today has been really, really powerful for me as well. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 4:Thanks.
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