Lead it Like Lasso: A Ted Lasso Rewatch Podcast
Marnie Stockman and Nick Coniglio, authors of the book Lead it Like Lasso, dig into each episode of Ted Lasso with a lens of leadership. Each podcast starts with a fun quick-clip summary of the episode. Marnie and Nick tie together the leadership principles from Ted Lasso, their own business successes, thought leaders and everyday advice to help individuals level up as they lead themselves (and others). This is a great podcast for TedHeads! There are many other Ted Lasso podcasts out there - this is the "same but different."
Lead it Like Lasso: A Ted Lasso Rewatch Podcast
Leadership Lessons from Smells Like Means Spirit | S3 Ep1
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🎙️ New Episode! We're back with Season 3 of the Lead It Like Lasso podcast (formerly Lens of Leadership) — and we’re going old school.
In this kickoff to "Smells Like Mean Spirit," Marnie and Nick dig into:
✨ Ted losing (or maybe redefining) his “why”
⚽️ The weight of expectations on AFC Richmond
😈 Nate’s slide into anti-Ted territory
💔 Roy & Keely’s tough moment — and Phoebe’s powerful reminder about resilience
Leadership lessons, storytelling genius, and sewer metaphors abound.
Listen in, laugh along, and let it flow. 💩➡️✨
#TedLasso #LeadItLikeLasso #LeadershipLessons #Podcast #TedLassoRewatch
Podcast Introduction and Rebranding
Speaker 1Hi everyone , I'm Nick Coniglio .
Speaker 2And I'm Marnie Stockman , and this is the Lead it Like Lasso podcast , a Ted Lasso rewatch podcast . We are the authors of Lead it Like Lasso , a leadership book for life , your life .
Speaker 1And this podcast is an extension of many of the elements outlined in our book . We invite you to join us as we take a deep dive into each episode and explore the leadership principles as they play out in the series . And for today's episode we're diving into season three . Episode one Smells Like Mean Spirit .
Speaker 2So funny that mean and teen rhyme together because so much of that aligns . But welcome back . We're excited for season three . So a couple changes . We're going old school like the OGs . Nick and I are going to do this podcast ourselves . So for season three , sometimes we'll just do this together and chat about leadership elements , and other times we'll invite guests . So it's a combo platter of what we've done in season one and season two . And so , interesting , while we've been away , someone reached out to us and said that they had the trademark of Lens , of Leadership , which is what we just what we used to call this podcast , and the right thing to do is change our name . So we searched high and wide and we came up with the cleverly titled Lead it Like Lasso podcast . If you have a better name for us , we're listening , but Lead it Like Lasso definitely is our brand . So here we are and we're excited to go .
Speaker 1We had the creative juices working on that one , didn't we , Marnie ?
Speaker 2Yeah , we did yeah .
Speaker 1All right , so let's
Season 3 Episode Themes Overview
Speaker 1jump into it . Season three , so it really continues the trend with the later season two episodes , and that the episodes , they're meaty , they're long .
Speaker 1They're 45 minutes and I think we're gonna get longer and longer as we get into this season . So there's lots to talk about and I'm going to start , marnie , with the themes that I think I know we had a little discussion about this but that we pulled out of this episode , and then I'm going to ask you where you want to go from there . So let's do a quick recap of really what's going on in this episode , and the first thing that I think we noticed right out of the gate is that Ted has he's wandering a bit , he's lost his why . I think three times in this episode we see or hear Ted asking someone else exactly why he's still in there , yep .
Speaker 1Yeah , whether it was Dr Sharon , coach beard or even Henry . So I think we can drill into that quite a bit , yep . The second theme is , if we recall from the end of season two that AFC Richmond is now newly promoted to the top division in the Premier League and it's clear that , like every team that gets promoted , the expectations are pretty low from all the pundits , the prognosticators , from the press , everywhere . And in this episode we start to see a glimpse into how each of the different stakeholders are handling that , whether it's Rebecca , the team or even the coaching staff . So I think we can talk a little bit about how that might relate to leadership positions in life . What do you think about that ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I definitely do , and the different stakeholders is a great way to think about it too . So , yeah , Awesome .
Speaker 1The third theme is Nate and to steal a couple of terms from AI , you know he's in that death spiral that you know he's that existential dread .
Speaker 2Yeah , exactly , I'm so tired of he's that existential dread yeah , exactly . I'm tired of chat saying that yeah .
Speaker 1But it's funny . You know , we often in our speaking engagements and even on our podcast , we often talk about Rupert as the anti-Ted , but in reality , what we're starting to see is that Nate is the true . He's almost the direct opposite of Ted the anti-Ted .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1So I'm not sure how much time we'll talk about that , but I think there's a couple of things we can pull from that .
Speaker 2Yes , for sure .
Speaker 1And then , of course , the fourth theme . When we ended season two , we were left wondering and thinking , hoping for the best
Ted's Lost Why and Finding Purpose
Speaker 1with Roy and Keely , and it's in this episode that we finally figure out , really along with Phoebe . The writers told us , and Phoebe at the same time , that they've broken things off . So you know , I think it's it's on us to pull a leadership spin on that a little bit , but we'll , we'll talk about that and I think we've got some things that we can cover . So yeah .
Speaker 1I think we got some things that we can cover . So , yeah , I think so . Did I miss anything ? Was there any other major themes from the episode that that ?
Speaker 2no , I think I think this covers it . Those are the biggies .
Speaker 1Okay , all right , so which was your favorite ? What are you ? What are you most ready to talk about ?
Speaker 2Well , I'm most ready to talk about theme one , which you said , where Ted lost his why . You know I'm a huge fan of Simon Sinek's work , which is all about start with why , find your why , and I think that Ted losing his why is really relevant to this and to leaders in general . It brought up a few things . One if you've read the Infinite Game , the Infinite Game talks about how you have to have a bigger picture , beyond a why . That might be short term in nature or when you get there , you will flounder .
Speaker 2Case in point if you founded a company just to beat a competitor , what happens when you beat that competitor ? What's pushing you to be better ? Right , and so Ted says he knows why he came , but he's not sure why . He's still there and if he doesn't figure that out he's going to be stuck , just like a person if they took a job I think of this a lot . When somebody takes a job to escape another job they have already , just by taking that new job , accomplished their goal . So what's inspiring them to become their best version in that new job ?
Speaker 1Yeah , I think that's . I think you're on point there . I'm going to throw a little bit . Yeah , I think you're on point there . I'm going to come at it from a little bit of a different angle and you tell me how far off I am with this .
Speaker 1I don't know if he's lost his , why . I mean sure he asked , see it in this episode , helping his players and those around him become the best versions of themselves . But you know , we often talk about leadership archetypes and we talk about the TED archetype , the positivity guru , right , always looking out for the best interest of others . And we , in tandem with that , we talk about some areas for growth , which is , you know , they often they're so busy taking care of others that they forget to take care of themselves .
Speaker 1I think what we're starting to see with Ted here we see it talking to Dr Sharon . He's clearly committed to Dr Sharon , but he's starting to think more about himself and he's thinking oh , my gosh , right , my son , I just love spending the time with him . Right , he spent the whole summer with me . He has now left , you know , obviously he still has feelings for Michelle and we see later in the episode that that's going to really start to be a major source of angst for him . But I see it more as his why really hasn't changed , but it's prioritized a little bit differently because he's more starting to think about himself .
Speaker 2So this is what I think of that . I think that now everybody that listens understands that Nick is clearly the brains behind this gig and always sees the deeper elements . I'm a surface level kind of girl , apparently , because I miss that , but I think that's brilliant . You're exactly right . Like he's starting talking to Sharon , we talk about it all the time how the Ted Lasso's of the world are so busy taking care of others , right , that they forget to take care of themselves . And what happens when you do start taking care of yourself , and the whole question of work life balance . And he's got to figure that out , yeah . And then , interesting , the underlying current of what you got to try . So Sharon tells him you never quit , right . And Henry says , well , you have to try . And you can picture Ted as a dad saying to Henry right , like , well , you got to try to do hard things , you have to take action . And what was the other quote ?
Speaker 2Like when I'm looking for that quote right now because when there's doubt , the only way to to like remove doubt is to take action .
Speaker 1So I think that can only be removed by action , as the man once said right as the man once said . Yep , that's a powerful quote . I mean it doesn't just apply to this .
Speaker 2I hadn't triggered that one , like I hadn't caught that one
Leading Teams with Low Expectations
Speaker 2when we first watched it , but I really liked it .
Speaker 1I did as well . I did as well , um have . So I'm curious , though when , when you find yourself losing the why kind of going back to what you were talking about earlier , because I thought it was on point you know how do you make the decision , how do you take action . I mean , is it I mean maybe ask it a different way have you ever found yourself in a position where you lost your motivation , where it just kind of disappeared and you did something about it ? Probably not because you're motivated every day and you're right on point with your core values , but have you ever been in that position ?
Speaker 2Well , I think we both know that , when I don't know if it's loss of motivation , but it's lack of ability to do anything with it , when the core values clash so much with company values that I felt I was stuck .
Speaker 2So I think I can think of three times in my life where it didn't matter if I was motivated or not . I had an external force that was jamming up my why in a big way , force that was jamming up my why in a big way , one of them being my college volleyball coach , and I had sort of exhausted all of the strategies that I could do for myself and , interestingly enough , as I'm saying this , like I had to , it had to go outside me . I actually had to attempt to quit the team , which didn't work , but it did get to . I had to face the conflict head on Um and also found some allies that I wouldn't have necessarily expected , like some diamond dogs on the team . That actually made the whole situation better . So , yeah , what's that ? Is that ? Is that ? Is that in line with what you were thinking ?
Speaker 1I mean it is . I think it's just . I think so many of us find ourselves in that position . You know I think back .
Speaker 1you know we've we've been through discussions with peer groups and such and you've heard me say that my why has was always about providing security , mostly for my family was always about providing security , mostly for my family , you know , not that that's locked up , you know , and put away with a key , but I am in so much of a better position now where that's not my priority .
Speaker 1So , really , you know , I was wandering for a little bit , right until we really came together and really are following our passion with everything we're doing with Lead , it Like Glass and Work in Progness and all the things that we're doing . But it really aligned to what Dr Sharon was saying in terms of taking action . Right , sometimes you just kind of got to move , keep moving forward , and taking action is leaving a software business for corporate America and doing things that you truly love , right , you know that's a little bit cliche , but it was the action with the help of the Diamond Dogs whether it was you , the family , everybody supporting that that really found and re-anchored the why so kind of a little bit of a place on that .
Speaker 2Well , no , it's interesting . You say that Friday night I play volleyball with the kids and there's a dad out there whose daughter's going away to college . And he came over and he said Marnie , I have a question for you , how'd you do it , like ? How'd you let him go to college ? Right , he knows I'm a family person , right ? Obviously I'm out there playing with my adult children . He's like how am I going to do it ? So he sort of has to refigure out like what his day to day . He has to take some action on how he's going to live a little differently when he realizes a big part of his , why it's going to change the what's that doesn't necessarily change that , why not exactly the same , but interesting timing .
Speaker 1All right , so we're going to run out of time if we keep spending all the conversation on theme one . What's the next theme you want to talk about ?
Speaker 2Well , let's go with poor AFC Richmond , although honestly , as much as I want to hate Nate his line of like , why did they rank him as 20th ? Because he didn't have a 21st ? That's stinking brilliant in comedy and comic genius writing . That was clever .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah . So how ? How do you lead , participate , engage with teams that have very low expectations , especially from the outside , looking in what , what is ? Have you ever been involved with that ?
Speaker 2All my lands , you should have seen my volleyball and softball teams in high . What , what is ? Have you ever been involved with that ? All my lands . You should have seen my volleyball and softball teams in high school , my freshman year catastrophic . But the interesting piece is in volleyball . So we were one and nine .
Speaker 2For folks playing along at home , that one means one win , but that one win was against the best team in the division . So I was actually talking to a coach yesterday who said they went 150 and 0 without ever focusing on wins , with about focusing on team and truly a Ted Lasso helping each person become the best version . So when there are low expectations , you do need to set
Nate's Transformation to the Anti-Ted
Speaker 2goals , right , you need to find your why , and they might be smaller wise along the way . Right , like , okay , we're not going to let them score on us , or we're it's going to be 10 minutes before they score . You know , like you can . You can pick numbers that make sense in the business world . In the same way of like , if you're trying to eat better , ok , I'm going to have a cheat day one day a week instead of I'm kind of cheating every single day . Right , you can put some smaller hurdles in place that you can accomplish , and I think mindset is clearly the one thing you need to work on . What comes to mind for you .
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean , I really like what you say because I've you know I used to run engineering teams and our tagline what we had written on the board was set expectations low , right , and then over to like .
Speaker 2but not believe my clever yeah .
Speaker 1Those business stakeholders . They're tough , let me tell you . But but what ? What I was ? You know my initial inclination is I love being the underdog .
Speaker 2Right .
Speaker 1I absolutely love being the underdog , but I'm , I'm building on , I'm thinking about . What you're saying is okay . That can be used as a source of motivation for sure . Right , we are the underdog . They don't expect anything from us . Let's go , let's prove them wrong . Right ? If I was Ted Lasso , I'd have a great inspirational speech around that . But the reality of it is and I've seen this , I've seen it in the sports world , I've seen it in the business world Once you reach the top , you kind of lose motivation , almost losing the why again .
Speaker 1Yeah , you're losing the why . So , setting the fundamentals right , the goals , like you've talked about , the goals , the habits , the foundation for improvement is , I mean , clearly something that we strongly believe in because we talk about it all the time , but that ultimately will allow you , once you kind of get to the point of not being the underdog , not having low expectations , to continue to grow and whether it's personally , in a professional setting , and continue to have the why , and I think I think it it kind of crystallizes you was kind of describing it and just my experiences being an underdog is , yeah , I love being the underdog , but but that can't be the only motivation , is what I'm trying to say .
Speaker 2You know it's interesting Cause I'm a Ravens fan , as we know , and and they have said before , the quarterback has definitely said , like we like being an underdog . The problem is then , when you get to the place where , where you should be dominant , you don't know how to behave . Right , it's that almost fear of success element of I don't know what to do with that . Like , it's easy to be fearless when really failure is just going to leave you in the exact same position that you are . It's a whole different story when there are expectations . Yeah , that's , that's harder , in a way .
Speaker 1Well , it took about 20 minutes into season three for you to bring up football and get me depressed about the jets .
Speaker 2Sorry , that's , that's fine .
Speaker 1That's fine , that's fine . I have optimism .
Speaker 2We've been the underdogs forever .
Speaker 1You think somebody could have a motivational speech around ? I'll take the short-term win . As a New York Jet fan , I don't need sustained success , all right .
Speaker 2So anything with . Nate yeah , any anything with nate it's interesting because you see glimmers of who nate wants to be and then rupert just egging him on .
Speaker 2It's kind of like rupert's the cool kid um yeah the bully right , that nate who just wants respect and to be acknowledged . When rupert gives him that , he's like Rupert's just feeding him exactly what he needs to bring him to the dark side right , giving him a car , you know , and um , and I almost felt like when the car I remembered as Nate pulled in , I thought I wonder if this is Nate sort of holding on a bit . Try to hold on to who he was at FC Richmond and then Rupert's like Nope .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2We're not doing that . What did you think about Nate ? I mean , yeah , you know .
Speaker 1Nate's , nate's ,
The Sewer Analogy and Storytelling
Speaker 1I .
Speaker 1I struggle with Nate because I , you know , and I've heard people we've been on podcasts before where they say , you know , I kind of relate to Nate to some extent .
Speaker 1You know , I don't agree with where he's gone with things , but I think it's a little weird because I think he's turned into you know , he's obviously turned into the opposite of Ted , but in his view Ted did him wrong whether that's not the right view and Ted was cruel and it's almost as though he's , he's , he's running with that and becoming cruel and that's not fair to Ted and I completely get it . But from the writer's perspective , that's how they portrayed it to be at the very end of the season , right , and he's , he's taking it . He's taking it out to taking that to a completely new level and clearly the the insecurity you know is is driving a big part of that and we're seeing that as he's constantly checking social media and you know , you know you can see his highs of highs when they're applauding him and then the lows of lows when they start to mock him after Ted has his , has his great comeback in the press conference . What do you think of Ted's matrix move turning , turning everything around on just Ted ?
Speaker 2being Ted . So my mom's mantra for us growing up was kill them with kindness , right , and that they don't really bullies in particular , don't really know what to do when you are nice to them . It throws them off their game . Uh , so I'm all about that . Uh , so I love that . It reminded me when I was teaching I had a . You know , I had a kid in class that was really causing problems and I was . I could just feel my blood pressure rising and I remember I was facing the board chalkboard . That's how long ago it was right , no whiteboards . And I mean I was going to break the chalk in my hand . I was getting so mad and I thought I wonder what would happen if I just laughed at the commentary from the kid and I just started laughing and he looked just appalled and the rest of the kids laughed with me and I thought , like that's right , we're going to go on from here , you know . So I thought , yeah , kill him with kindness . Well done , ted , take the . He took the high road by showing him the sewer .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2That's something .
Speaker 1That is something . So for those keeping score at home , we're thinking Marnie's mom influenced kill him with kindness . Marnie's dad influenced Killam with kindness , Marnie's dad . Don't be sorry , be right . And we have , you know , like Marnie the influencer . Now we need to thank mom and dad Stockman or Delora for that matter , right , yeah , yeah . That's awesome , so we haven't spent a lot of time with the sewer analogy .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1Poopay .
Speaker 2You do that better ?
Speaker 1I'm not good . Yeah , just let it flow . Just let it flow . So I mean I mean A couple of things with that . I mean the message itself , I think , speaks for itself . Right , get rid of , you know , all those outside distractions , don't let that really navigate you off course at all . Just , kind of let it come in , let it come out . I think the message is we's not just telling them how to act , he's not telling them facts , he's telling them a story that they can relate to and remember .
Speaker 1So we talk about storytelling all the time . You have anything else to add about that ?
Speaker 2Well , first , yep , you got me again . That's exactly what I was thinking is that ? You know , we tell folks all of the time that when they're interviewing right , or when they're thought influencers on , or thought leaders or influencers on social are doing exactly what Ted did right ? He took something and made a lesson out of it in a way you wouldn't have expected by telling a story about it . He didn't just give facts of like . You just need wouldn't have expected by telling a story about it . He didn't just give facts of like . You just need to let it flow , you need to let it go .
Speaker 2He took them to a sewer . He got them to see all of these mechanics and understand it in a different way , and then connected the metaphor , which was brilliant , right . Even more brilliant when you get Jamie Tartt to be the one to explain it to you , right ? When you get the Jamie Tartt of the world to tell your story , when someone can tell the story for themselves and understand the story so much better . So it is how every human , every company , is going to stand out if they learn to tell their own story . And that was clever , that was smooth . I always say keep calm and carry on . Never would have thought to drag my students down to a sewer to prove it .
Speaker 1You know , I think sometimes people question us when we say which we say all the time that Ted Lasso . The show itself is a master class in leadership , and I think that's just one small example of the brilliance of it right there .
Speaker 2Those folks would be wrong Sorry .
Speaker 1All right , so Roy and
Roy, Keely, and Work-Life Balance
Speaker 1Kelly .
Speaker 2Darn it . I want those two to be together .
Speaker 1Do you ? That was going to be my first question . Were you rooting for them to be together ? I ?
Speaker 2am rooting for him . Yeah , I think they're a delightful combo platter of yeah , I do . I think Keely calls it like she sees it in a different way , which is what Roy needs , because he calls it like she sees it in a very gruff way . Right , and I think that is what the other needs . Right , and I think that is what the other needs . And I'm good old Phoebe , who you know what Sharon says at the beginning about Henry , that kids are more resilient than you think . And then look at Phoebe sneaking in at the end and just calling it like yeah , and oh , my goodness broke my heart when , like my my dad , when her dad left when she was four .
Speaker 2So I am I . One of my core values is that I don't think anything is permanent . Oh , and she says it in a way that probably most folks didn't end up crying the first time they watched it , but I bet those folks that are on their 17th rewatch like that just pulls at your heartstrings .
Speaker 1Yeah , it sure does . Yeah , I love , I love that little . I mean we didn't include that . You know we talk a lot about reverse mentoring , right , learning from somebody that maybe doesn't have as much experience as you have , and kids fit that model perfectly right . But it's weird how sometimes they can keep us , you know , with that most grounded perspective . And it reminds us of didn't we just do something on social recently where we , we , we look , we posted our , our baby ?
Speaker 2pictures out there ? Yeah , cause we learned from another leader , right , we were on a podcast and we learned that one way to build empathy , especially with yourself , is to look at your baby pictures , because you can feel empathy for them , um , and it's super interesting right To go back and look . So I think everybody should post their baby pictures and tag us so we can see them , um , and show a little empathy for yourself and for others , right Cause when you think of them as that child , yeah absolutely so .
Speaker 1Let me go back to the Phoebe thing for just a second . Yeah , because she was pinging them with questions why , why , why , why , and then . And then she gets in the car and you just talked about this , and is this the right thing , uncle Roy ? And and he answers I don't know you know , as this is vulnerable for Roy Kent , right ? I mean , how important is that phrase , I don't know , for leaders .
Speaker 2Well , critically important for parents to be able . So that is how they can teach their kids that it's okay to take risks and and make mistakes . It's critically important for leaders , right , because that is how you show vulnerability and how you let people in . If you are the boss and you are always right , no one is ever . You are just constantly going to be . What is it ? The ? The one boss and a thousand doers . You just won't have any other thinkers . So it's critically important to say that you don't know and to be willing to rethink .
Speaker 2how many times do we quote Adam Grant and think again like that's how you rethink is if you recognize that you don't know ?
Speaker 1Yeah , and and the last thing on this , and I don't have much more than this , but I think it was interesting how the show built up to the fact that they , they were breaking up . They , they really painted a picture , mostly with keely , on how busy she is with kjpr . Uh , they showed really the stress and just how you know , at one point she broke into tears with rebecca because how busy she was , and then even , to some extent , roy . They gave us a little hint in the fact that he's now responsible for strategies , taking on the role that Nate used to take on .
Speaker 1But the reality of it is that there's such . You know , we talk about work-life balance , work-life balance , but at the end of the day , when you have that much responsibility and you are that busy , it will . If you don't , if you're not intentional about it , it will impact personal relationships that you have , whether I mean it could be boyfriend , girlfriend , spouse , what have you friendships across the line ? And I think you know it's . It's a cliche , you know . Work life balance , it's , it's what we talk about , but the importance of that is is something that should not be lost on people for sure .
Speaker 2Yeah , prioritizing . It is clearly what Roy's not doing , right .
Speaker 1Yep , yep . Anything else from the episode before we wrap up here .
Speaker 2I mean , the whole thing is nuggets . We could obviously talk for days , but those were kind of the big , the big talking points . Um , in my mind I did . I did also make the note of turning your weakness into your strength in some ways , but I think maybe we'll put that in our newsletter .
Speaker 1Yeah , I had one more note about just how lonely leadership is sometimes Right , and I think we're seeing it , you know . You know whether it's the busyness of Keely or Roy or Ted what he's going through .
Speaker 2Or the behaviors of Nate .
Speaker 1Yeah , absolutely , absolutely . But I think we'll call it there for that for this episode , and that is our whistle whistle Game's over , but the leadership lessons keep on playing .
Final Thoughts and Leadership Lessons
Speaker 2Yeah , they do . So , as a reminder , you can find us like Roy , here , there and every effing where on social . So we're at LeadItLikeLasso and , of course , leaditlikelassocom , and we would love for you to check out our little snarky sidekick of a newsletter at WorkInProgMessai .
Speaker 1Yeah , we have a lot of fun with that . So until next time , stay curious , stay kind and keep leading it like Lasso .
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