Lead it Like Lasso: A Ted Lasso Rewatch Podcast

Leadership Lessons in ... 4-5-1 | S3 Ep3

• Marnie Stockman and Nick Coniglio • Season 3 • Episode 3

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🎧 NEW EPISODE ALERT!
S3, Ep3 of Ted Lasso brings Zava to Richmond… and ego to the locker room. In our latest episode of Lead It Like Lasso, we unpack leadership lessons from “4-5-1” — and trust us, there's more here than Zava's avocado obsession.

🎙️ In this episode:

  • Managing a team with a diva (when talent threatens culture)
  • Why Jamie Tartt is becoming our favorite leader
  • The power of affirmations — “I am a strong and capable man.”
  • The right timing for mentorship: Roy & Jamie 2.0
  • Why being kind doesn’t mean being weak
  • Ted’s moment of vulnerability — and what it reminds us about mental health

đź‘Ą Plus, we talk about:

  • How reverse mentorship works
  • What Trent Crimm might do with Colin’s secret
  • And Rebecca’s surprising moment of clarity

📣 Whether you're a coach, teacher, CEO, or just someone trying to lead yourself better — this episode hits home.

👉 Listen now. Like. Share. And as always:
 Stay curious. Stay kind. And keep leading it like Lasso.

Speaker 1:

Hi everyone. I'm Nick Negleo.

Speaker 2:

And I'm Marnie Stockman, and this is the Lead it Like Lasso podcast, a Ted Lasso rewatch podcast. We are the authors of Lead it Like Lasso, a leadership book for life, your life.

Speaker 1:

And this podcast is an extension of many of the elements outlined in our book. We invite the authors of Lead it Like Lasso a leadership book for life, your life and this podcast is an extension of many of the elements outlined in our book. We invite you to join us as we take a deep dive into each episode and explore the leadership principles as they play out in this series and for today's episode, we're diving into season three, episode three, which is titled 451. So, what'd you think of the episode, marnie? You want to review some of the uh, the highlights of it.

Speaker 2:

Uh, yeah. So I mean, one of the big things is we meet a new character, zava. Yeah, um, and Zava is a superstar to beat all superstars, and so we can talk a lot about the impact.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we. I must say this was not my favorite episode. The storyline, the Zava storyline I don't think is my favorite, but he certainly arrives in, the entire team is hypnotized by, I guess, his genius and his ego. I guess the entire team except for Jamie, right, he's really the only player that is resistant to Zava's spell. And at the same time we see that Jamie's really taking the next step in his personal development in a lot of different areas. Maybe we'll get into that.

Speaker 2:

Well, and it's interesting that you say hypnotized, because Rebecca goes to a psychic.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then, Ted, he faces a hard truth at home when he calls home and he finds out that Michelle is actually dating Dr Jacob.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, colin, of course we find out that Colin has a boyfriend. No one else finds that out except Trent at the end, Right? So, trent, we don't know what Trent's going to do about that.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. And then we've got the Roy-Jamie relationship taking its next step and Roy finally agrees to train Jamie, which is something that I think we might talk about. So where do you want to start with all those things? First of all, did you like the episode? Is this one of your, one of your favorites? Not so much.

Speaker 2:

So it's interesting. When I think about season three I get a little angsty because I didn't love a couple of the plot lines, like I don't love Zav and I don't love Jack. Why? Because I want the relationship with Keely, roy and jamie to stay the like. I like that dynamic and I feel like those two things interrupt my favorite, like some of my favorite parts of the show. Um, but that said, when I get into the episode I'm like, oh, but there's still so many great moments. So like there's there's this resistance because I know I'm gonna have to slog through some stuff that um, but oh my goodness, like there's still some great elements in it. But in general, season three gives me a bit more angst than the others, but they're long episodes so there's always plenty of meaty goodness in there. How's that?

Speaker 1:

I think that was perfect. So where do you want to start with with this episode?

Speaker 2:

Well, I actually wanted to start at the very beginning. So Colin is with his boyfriend, but when he gets in the car he says I'm a strong and capable man. So I wanted to talk about affirmations, and he actually says it at the end too. Lens, I wanted to go dig up like some research about affirmations, so can I share?

Speaker 1:

Oh, I'd love to hear yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so there are three different studies. Fmri study showed that future oriented affirmations like I will um activate brain reward regions, and so that actually boosts problem solving and reducing stress under threat. So three cheers for the I wills Um. Berkeley study 20 seconds of daily self-compassion affirmations over four weeks improved emotional wellbeing and reduced stress in college students. That's pretty amazing. 20 seconds a day for four weeks can improve your emotional wellbeing. Like that's a big deal. So I am a strong and capable woman. I is what I'm going to start saying, I think, or something. Maybe I'll have to say it twice to get it to last 20 seconds, or talk slower, but that's a big deal. Um, and what's interesting, I thought, was that when you say affirmations in the present tense, like I am, that actually can backfire for people with low self-esteem. So you need to focus on the I will um, which I think is super important um as a as a context about affirmations.

Speaker 1:

That's. That's. That's fascinating, and I, I think, I think what we're we're figuring out is column Colin does not have the highest self-esteem, so I think we might have some bumpy waters in front of him. I know we do, actually, as we watch the show, so I think the writers of the show might have been familiar with that to some extent. For sure, yeah, but what I thought about that entire sequence just with with colin specifically, you know he's not only is he hiding a big part of who he is with with michael, uh, but he's also facing other challenges. Right, this is our first deep dive into colin. You know he has been a supporting character, but he's the one who ends up being benched with the arrival of Zava. And again, another reason to affirm to himself that he is indeed a strong and capable man. Oh, go ahead.

Speaker 2:

You want to say something? Yeah, bonus points for Isaac. He says you're good, yes, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1:

We start to see the relationship between Isaac, you know, checking in on him, which which is what I wanted to drill into through challenges like that that are invisible to other people, and good on Isaac for picking up on the fact that that actually can impact somebody else. I think you know we talk a lot about empathy, seeing things from someone else's perspective, and that's really hard to do for a lot of people, but that was one of the first things that Isaac really did was a lot of people, but that was one of the first things that Isaac really did was all right. I hear that he is not starting anymore.

Speaker 2:

Let me check in on him and see how he's doing. So I think bonus points there for sure. And you know, when they introduced that in the coach's room, roy said Colin's a chameleon, he'll go with whatever works Right. But I, you know, I always say don't take my kindness for weakness Right. A lot of times, those folks who are very flexible and other oriented, they what do we say all the time they don't take care of themselves Right. Um, it's interesting because I have, uh, I've definitely experienced within the family like who's who's the pleaser person and who do you have to kowtow to? And it's not fair to the person that's always got to take the beating. And so I appreciate that Isaac checked in on Colin for sure, and I took that to heart of like, okay, just because somebody is willing to be the martyr doesn't mean they should have to Right. And how can you make them feel heard and seen?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think don't take my kindness, for weaknesses is one. Don't take people for granted.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I think is.

Speaker 2:

OK, that's really probably what I was feeling, and I didn't say it well, so that's yeah no, I think that's, but I think you're.

Speaker 1:

You're dead on in terms of because we both have pleaser personalities and I think, both of us take. You know we get taken for granted a lot of times because people know that, okay, we'll just roll with it, we'll roll with the flow and and figure it out. Um, but it is nice to hear from from being a people pleaser perspective, when somebody comes out and specifically identifies uh, you know that something may be affecting us, even though we are willing to roll with the flow, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So All right. So the other thing that I thought with that whole situation, with Trent walking up on Colin and Michael, that I thought was interesting is Trent's actually getting a chance at redemption a little bit. He was the one who got the scoop on Ted having the panic attacks and he for sure felt bad about writing the story about that. As we've gone forward, and it's interesting, he's now given another opportunity. We don't know what's going to happen necessarily.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what is he going to do with this information? And I think it's really a redemption opportunity for him to see. Okay, what does he do?

Speaker 2:

with it. Yeah, okay, I like that.

Speaker 1:

Okay, you want to jump into the Zava saga?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, let's talk Zava 451. He's the one right.

Speaker 1:

He is the one, and I am amazed. So I have a lot of thoughts on this, but the first thing that comes to mind is how enamored just about everybody in the entire building is with Zava, this egocentric somebody who is a diva except for two people, and I think the first person is Rebecca.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and and I'm I'm thinking about that. And then the second person is Jamie, and the first thing that comes to mind is it takes one to know one, and I think both of them come at it from a little bit of a different angle. Clearly, jamie was that diva at one point in time in the show but rebecca was. He's being hypocritical, yeah yes, absolutely, but rebecca was married to one in rupert, yeah, and she's like I'm not falling for this stuff yeah you, you can't oh, I didn't even think about that.

Speaker 2:

Rebecca's really showing her own growth, but be like, get out of my chair.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, absolutely. She wasn't taking any of that, but what was really disappointing to me? You know, we commented a couple of episodes ago about Ted and how he really stepped up from a leadership perspective, addressing Roy's issue with Trent, but not in this case. He was addressing Roy's issue with Trent, but not in this case. He was starstruck, and all about the Zava nation in terms of really idolizing him, which I thought was an interesting perspective, and how the show writers played that out. How about you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I didn't feel like that, felt like real Ted, um, because he's so about the locker room, um, I feel like he would have had a conversation with Colin. You know, I just that's not easy, um for sure, and you can appreciate what he brings to the party. But yeah, it didn't feel like I could see him saying, like what we have here is good. You know, like Jamie did, like Jamie's line was sort of what I would have expected Ted to say when he came. He's like, well, we have here is a good thing, we don't need Zava, right, because what we're building in this locker room is something. And Jamie really didn't say that coming in ego maniac, but did acknowledge that he certainly had been that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, again, major growth points for Jamie, just on the way he handled it. Not only I was more impressed with the way he handled it, not only I was more impressed with the way he handled it. Thanks for hearing me out. You know being very clear and concise with the fact that we got a really good thing here. He's going to effing mess it up, but Ted said, yeah, we always appreciate you coming and talking to us about it. He's like well, thanks for listening and I think, wow, jamie, this is why I love Jamie Tartt so much because he shows such tremendous, tremendous growth.

Speaker 2:

And.

Speaker 1:

I thought he handled that really well.

Speaker 2:

So there are a couple other things I think are important from a leadership perspective when you have a diva on the team or a star on the team and what it can do for the team. If you think about the notion of four, five, one, if you haven't rewatched the episode recently, it makes you think like, oh, on the soccer field they've got four on the back and then five and then Zava in the middle. But when Zava went to the pieces around he did not do four, five, one, he did cluster of nine, one right, and and his ego is making everyone else less. And that is an absolute threat in organizations when you have a really large ego. You and I have both worked for organizations where an ego tries to deflate everyone else, which causes a lot of problems.

Speaker 2:

People don't understand their place in the world. They feel like they don't have any agency or ownership to do something to improve. They're just put in their very little box or cluster of nine and so nobody grows. And the other piece of that is a one by nine doesn't scale. So if you are a leader of an organization and you maybe not by ego but by accident are doing all the things, it's like the one expert in a thousand followers, right? If you haven't helped everyone become their best version, what's Ted all about Helping everyone become their best version? That is not what is happening here. When you put the other nine and group them all together, not as individuals, but as just Zava and everyone else not as individuals, but as just Zava and everyone else. So I saw when, just that one moment when Zava moved everybody, I thought, yep, we've worked for places like that and that is danger. Will Robbins?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it goes back to again the disappointment with how Ted actually reacted to the situation.

Speaker 1:

Because it seemed like not 100%, but I wanted to say it seemed like it was about the wins and losses and not helping everybody become the best versions of themselves. I think it was a little more nuanced with that with Ted, because he was just awestruck on just the presence of Zava, awestruck on just the the presence of Zava, um, but again it was. It was off character to everything that we've talked about through right up through this episode with with Ted specifically, um, but I you know talent and skill is important on a team for sure. So I think there's skill is important on a team for sure. So I think there's there's a real question to be asked, which is how does a leader balance that admiration for the talent and still be preserve team chemistry? Yeah, you have any, any thoughts on that?

Speaker 2:

Well, you know, it comes down to culture, right? And if Ted doesn't tend to that, then first Jamie and Zaba are going to have problems and Jamie's going to like that can impact the locker room, colin not getting to play can impact the locker room. So there needs to be, in a shocking turn of events, like everything else, open communication, right, about what is going on. So, um, you know, when this happens, you have to be able to talk to everyone to help set expectations around what you think this relationship will be like in the organization, in the household, on the team, and then have them also talk about what this is going to look like.

Speaker 2:

Ted didn't give like. Who gave the talk ahead of time? Zava, right? So suddenly Ted's not giving the pep talk, he's not controlling the narrative, so he's not controlling the culture, right? So when this happens in an organization, you have to be aware because, yeah, you want to hire a players, right, but you have to figure out how this is going to impact others so that everybody comes to the conclusion that this is the best thing for the team, right?

Speaker 1:

I mean absolutely. I think he nailed it and I think this is a Harvard Business Review case study on poor communication starting from the very beginning. I mean, rebecca signed Zava without much consultation at all. Sure, they had a little bit of a conversation about it, but they had zero plan in place to actually and forethought into actually how it might play out, what the team dynamic would be, how the team strategy might change, how we're going to communicate this with the team Every step along the way. They failed. They absolutely failed, which is great from a comedy standpoint, I guess, but it's also great from the counter example standpoint on. Strategies are more than just thoughts and ideas. They are doomed to fail without some sort of well thought out communication plan.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, as a matter of fact, I know I saw a clip recently where Gary Vee said I don't care how good your star player is, they're not good for everyone in the company. You have to fire them yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 1:

No doubt. So, uh, where else do you want to take this?

Speaker 2:

Uh, well, the other thing that you know, you and I talk a lot about, is the importance of mentors. That you and I talk a lot about is the importance of mentors. We have mentored others, we have had mentors, and Jamie doesn't just want to be as good as Zaba, he wants to be better than him.

Speaker 2:

And Roy takes a good long breath and says I could teach you. And remember that a season ago, when Jamie asked for Roy's help, he's like nope. And now Roy is coming around as well and he said he'll mentor Jamie. And I think, in talking about mentoring, it's really important to realize that, like I said last season, jamie said you need to coach me too, and Roy said no, they didn't have the relationship. Some people I have seen I have had folks come and say like will you mentor me? When you just meet them, like what? Who are you Right? A mentorship is really designed to be like done right, it's a, it's a close relationship. And now Jamie's ready and Roy's ready. But I think that's something that people need to think about if they want to get a mentor, that they need to have the relationship where both people want the same thing for the mentee, so that they have built trust and can work together.

Speaker 1:

So what do you think changed between last season with both Roy and Jamie that made this moment possible now?

Speaker 2:

Uh, so Roy has certainly gotten over himself and recognizes that he's no longer the player, that he was right and he is a coach now. Um, and so I think roy, for himself, is starting to learn that this is like roy 2.0, can give back to the game that he loves. Um, I also think that he is learning to forgive himself and to forgive Jamie, and that they're building a relationship. What were you thinking?

Speaker 1:

No, I think you're exactly right, and I think last episode ended with Roy finally opening up to people about how he felt when he left Chelsea and why he decided to leave Chelsea, and also the fact that he had that moment with Trent where he actually forgave him. So we see both again. I just think it's brilliant the way the writers do this. They were not ready for that mentor-mentee relationship in season two, but in the first two episodes of season three, both characters came along in such a way, so they didn't just snap their fingers and they said, okay, we're going to make this mentor-mentee relationship work. They actually showed that the characters have changed. Yeah, yeah, you know whether it was through Roy really digging deep in his soul about leaving Chelsea and learning how to forgive others and and and you know, coming to some, showing that he's learned from his very egocentric ways in the past. I just love the fact that they have showed that, yeah, they weren't ready and now they are ready, so let's make this thing happen.

Speaker 2:

So that reminds me Jamie was wearing the jacket that said icon. I see, oh and right and and everyone talks about online how he used to wear the icon hat and at the end it was, you know, more team. I don't even remember what it switched to Um, uh, and then uh, oh, my goodness, I'm going to lose my train of thought when you said that Gone Just like that. But, yeah, Jamie has. They've both grown so much. Oh, I know what I was going to say Is that a lot of times that you'll see on you know Facebook threads or Reddit threads, somebody will throw in there. Well, like, like. That's because it's a TV show and the writers can make them do it. Well, the writers could have made Roy mentor Jamie last season. The writers could have done that, but they showed you the growth that's required as a playbook for us. That is why we wanted to write this book, because they're showing exactly what needs to happen to get the growth that folks need and why this show is a masterclass in leadership.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think, along with that progression, I think we talk about this whole notion of reverse mentoring as well, and the fact that, as the mentor, you can learn quite a bit from the person, from your mentee, and the reality of it is, Roy is now at a point where he's open to learning from other people, including Jamie Tartt.

Speaker 1:

And I think yeah, I think it just reinforces everything that we know is of value with this whole idea of mentorship both ways. That again the show has set it up. So yet they, they are fully ready to get the most out of this relationship on both sides, for sure. Slam dunk slam dunk um anything with with Rebecca and the psychic with Tish.

Speaker 2:

Well, the only thing I will say is that, as we're looking ahead to season four, I think Rebecca is going to be that mom Haven't seen any characters that would imply it.

Speaker 1:

So that's not a leadership, that's just good.

Speaker 2:

season four gossip.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, I think that is one of the one of the questions that the people who really follow the show, I think they're dying to know that answer, because everything else seems to at some point into place.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Come true for sure. Um, what about with, uh, ted and dr.

Speaker 2:

Dr jacob, oh, well, I mean, there's the ethics of that um and ted having to. It was all of that's interesting. Um, yeah, and I what I did think. Yeah, and I what I did think. Points on Michelle, for when Dr Jacob answered the phone and realized like this wasn't cool, michelle knew it wasn't cool and that they needed to talk about it because that shouldn't have happened and it shouldn have been communicated that way either.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think the the one thing I appreciated from that storyline. It's a horrible storyline, clearly, and you feel you feel for Ted, but in in the previous season they kind of they wrapped up the anxiety and the panic attacks you know to, to some certain extent, I think, the reminder of self-care and the fact that you know it's not as easy as just snapping your fingers and having some conversations, but it it can. There are triggers, for sure, and the fact that the writers of the show acknowledged that, yeah, ted isn't completely over this just yet. Um, you know, I know there's more to it than that, but that was kind of a subtle reminder from my perspective that um, yeah.

Speaker 1:

I mean, life is hard sometimes and you gotta always stay on top of that self-care for sure, Um to, to make sure you're taking care of yourself.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and, like you said, you never know when it's going to pop up. And that is the one thing we've also talked about with season two is that the show did a great job of highlighting mental health and the importance for folks to take care of their mental health, but for those folks that come in it is just a television show. It doesn't happen with a single sit down with Dr Sharon. We're like, oh all done, I'll never have a panic attack again, perfect. I'm glad we had that little chat right. So yeah, he's got to keep doing the work.

Speaker 1:

Yep for sure. All right, so that was the Zava episode, and that means that that is our whistle. Whistle, the game's over, but leadership lessons keep on playing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, follow along like comment. Subscribe wherever you're seeing us do all the things We'd love to chat with you about it.

Speaker 1:

Yep. So until next time, stay curious, stay kind and keep leading it like LATSO.

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Marnie Stockman

Host
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Nick Coniglio

Host