Lead it Like Lasso: A Ted Lasso Rewatch Podcast

Leadership Lessons from Signs | S3 Ep5

• Marnie Stockman and Nick Coniglio • Season 3 • Episode 4

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🎧 NEW EPISODE: “SIGNS” IS LIVE!
In Season 3, Episode 5 of Ted Lasso, the signs are everywhere — falling from walls, whispered by psychics, and baked into baklava. This week on Lead It Like Lasso, we explore what it means to lead when the symbols start to crumble.

🎙️ In this episode, Marnie & Nick unpack:
 ✅ What panic attacks reveal — and what they hide
 ✅ When belief is real… and when it’s just a sign on the wall
 ✅ Why ghosting (à la Zava) is terrible leadership
 ✅ The truth about compliment sandwiches and tough conversations
 ✅ The connection between reflection, authenticity, and sheep (yes, sheep 🐑)

💥 Bonus moments:

  • Ted finally swears?!
  • Nate returns to Taste of Athens
  • Keeley finds her voice
  • Rebecca looks for answers… and finds heartbreak
  • Roy & Jamie keep grinding

This one’s a deep cut. If you’ve ever faced burnout, indecision, or doubt, this episode is for you.



Speaker 1:

Hi everyone, I am Nick Caniglio.

Speaker 2:

And I'm Marnie Stockman, and we are the authors of Lead it Like Lasso a leadership book for life, your life. Welcome to our Ted Lasso Rewatch podcast. Lead it Like Lasso life your life.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to our Ted Lasso Rewatch podcast. Lead it Like Lasso, yeah, and this podcast is an extension of many of the elements outlined in our book. We invite you, as always, to join us as we take a deep dive into each episode and explore the leadership principles as they play out in the series. And for today's episode, we're diving into season three, episode five, episode called Signs Signs yeah, what'd you think of this episode, marnie?

Speaker 2:

Not my favorite for sure. You know. We said earlier that Zava, shandy and Jack have been. I don't feel like they are as well developed as everybody else, so they're coming in with more single traits. They're not. They don't have the same depth of character, so I don't really love all of those storylines.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I would agree. I would agree it's, it's, it's a lot of stuff. That's the way I would put it. But so the episode is called signs, and in this episode signs really come in many forms, I think, from literal right the belief sign itself crumbling and being ripped up to the metaphorical right. We see green matchbooks, we see, we hear shites and mining armor, that is fun.

Speaker 1:

We? We of course have panic attacks, which are signed in and of themselves, right, but some of the key plot lines of the episode just in review? We find out that AFC Richmond is in a tailspin since losing to Nate and West Ham.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Six or seven in a row at this point.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and Zava's come and gone right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that was quick, three episodes.

Speaker 2:

That's part of what makes me go. Eh, okay, go on.

Speaker 1:

Speaking of signs, rebecca is seeing signs all over the place from Tish. We talked about that, the Green Matchbook, hearing her ex-boyfriend, who's now engaged, um, and his fiancee talking about shite's nining armor, which came up with tish yeah, um, keely has to fire shandy right.

Speaker 2:

And the drama that ensues there, shandy, the drama stir yeah, will sparks with jack too yeah uh, it comes back.

Speaker 1:

We're starting to see a little, uh, a little, maybe possibly some redemption with nate. I know it's hard to see that the fact that he's dating a successful model. But he's, he's at home with a taste of athens and, uh, he sparks a conversation with Jade who kind of sees um, maybe Nate for really what's hiding underneath all the uh facade of him being mean.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. And then, you already mentioned Ted, rips up the belief sign right and cusses, which is not Ted's typical MO.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Is that the first time in this series that he actually cusses? I was. I was thinking about that when I watched it.

Speaker 2:

That's a good question. Um, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

It caught me off guard. It's kind of like hearing you say a cuss word he's done it one more time than I think I've heard you say it in this episode but or say anything but thing. But I was like what did he just say the S word? Yeah, I think he did yeah, which is interesting in and of itself. You know, sometimes, as as leaders or as somebody who's attempting to lead, you have to change your persona a little bit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's the lead Tasso coming out for a hot second maybe.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. So where do you want to start in terms of what we can pull from this episode?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I didn't have a ton, I had maybe three-ish things. So the one thing that really relates to signs that I felt like was a big thread, because they pulled on it a couple different ways, was when Rebecca saw the matchbooks, went and talked to Higgins about. Did he believe in psychics? And his line was sometimes they help us see something we can't quite see ourselves, even if you believe they're charlatans because you're looking for that sign. And so how about there? What did you?

Speaker 1:

Well, I, first of all, I agree with Higgins right when he said the universe is full of things we can't explain. And the first thing he brings up are fingernails. And I'm like, yeah, why, why? I don't get the fingernail thing, except I guess you can bite them when you're nervous. Um, but to your point for sure. Uh, yeah, I mean, I, I, I think his line, I wrote down the line exactly as he said it. Right, in psychics, even though some of them are charlton's, just like you said, they can help us see something ourselves that that we can't see ourselves.

Speaker 1:

I thought it was strange that he used ourselves twice in the same sentence. I thought that was strange that he used ourselves twice in the same sentence. I thought that was. Was that a challenge from an acting standpoint that he actually did that? Chat, gpt didn't write that for sure, but yeah, I think it's. I think what a great line seeing something in ourselves. It makes me think of self-reflection, yeah, yeah, and the work that you have to put into it. How about you? You're the one who brought it up.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's exactly what I thought. You know how sometimes you go to the person that's going to give you the advice you want to hear. It's the old mom versus dad type of thing. So many times if folks are leaning towards something, so many times if folks are leaning towards something, they will take something as a sign no-transcript down a blind path. You mentioned chat GPT. I believe anyone that spent more than six seconds on chat GPT would know when you enter a prompt, it's going to respond and it's going to ask you what you want to do next. You could just blindly go down that path and you've lost yourself in the thread of what you're doing if you just let chat GPT continue to prompt you down the path, what you're doing if you just let Chet GPT continue to prompt you down the path.

Speaker 2:

And when I think of somebody that's just blindly following down a path, I don't think of a leader at all. You know, what I think of is sheep, and if you just blindly follow a path, you're going to end up shandy, stinky sheep in the wrong room, right, uh? So that's kind of I thought. Well, that's interesting. I wonder if the sheep was specific because the the writers were thinking don't just blindly follow and be a sheep. You need to do the reflection, to take this sign to, to do the work on what you need to do. What say you on that? Am I overthinking?

Speaker 1:

Well, some claps. Yeah, I I I say well done. I think I think first of all well done on my part for finding out that we actually have sound effects that we can do sound effects. Well done, well done I know I, I think that's a brilliant take and you know I'm I'm curious. You know the blindly down, going blindly down a path and the sheep. I'm curious if the writers actually, if you just kind of intertwined all of that, or if the writers were actually thinking about that, you know they're so good.

Speaker 2:

They could have put any animal in that room, anything they picked. They could have had some more greyhound puns. Yeah, picked a sheep.

Speaker 1:

So I feel like they, they did, I and they some writers set it up in episode one, right, I, you know, I, I I'm gonna kind of play off that a little bit and because it's it's near and dear to my heart, the whole notion of panic attacks and and ted, and it's not quite the same take, but you know, is there a more ultimate sign than panic attacks? Right, in terms of something's?

Speaker 2:

off. Something else is going on, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I think they the way they have kind of built it up really over three seasons. He's been dealing with the panic attacks for three seasons and you know we kind of know why. You know there's there's kind of the disruption in the family, but I think it really hit home during this episode. It was the one thing that I pulled out is you know he's he's concerned that he's not really there for Henry. Yeah, His.

Speaker 2:

He's concerned that he's not really there for Henry, his son.

Speaker 1:

That's the issue. And we find out that he's involved in a bullying incident and Ted and Beard and Roy funny Roy gives the whole bullying story. It's a little scary but everybody assumes that Henry was bullied but in fact he was the one who did the bullying. And Ted finds this out and I think it comes to a point we see where Ted's thinking about sending him off on the plane. You know right, is he really there for Henry? And is that the impetus behind a lot of the pack attacks? Does he fear like he's feel like he's failing as a dad? And the whole notion of Henry resolving it by singing a rap song to his class and an apology and telling the story about, you know, count to 10 and then count to 10 again and you know, I think Ted starts to realize, okay, I did make an impact on the boy, yeah, and I think, and I'm hoping that and we actually saw it a little bit, you know he took the deep breath and he kind of got over his panic attack a little bit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

But I just want to call out to everybody out there, from a self-care standpoint, the whole notion of panic attacks. They are a sign Something is off. And going back to what you were saying earlier, uh, you know, you can just continue to deal with it and treat it somehow, therapeutically, through drugs, what have you? But really the the solution, um, a lot of the time, is the self-reflection to understand truly what is triggering those panic attacks. For sure, anyhow, that was a little deep from my perspective and very personal from my perspective, because I've been there. How about anything else? You've mentioned a couple of things in this episode.

Speaker 2:

Well, you talked about Nate and he takes this fancy pants model to a taste of Athens and she clearly doesn't like it. And you start to see the authentic version of Nate. He's very comfortable in a taste of Athens and he doesn't bother trying to try to leave taste of Athens to go someplace else to cater to this woman because he's finding himself and he's finding himself at home in taste of Athens. And Jade recognizes that when he's not showing up trying to be a fake don't you know who I am, I get the front window, type of thing she thinks oh, that is intriguing. Yeah, people like to see the authentic version of people.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and sometimes you need a little help, just like you said, and, and you know, if you feel like you're not being authentic, sometimes you need to put yourself in a comfortable setting and surrounding and that will help certainly draw it out of you, for sure. I know that. That's been, that's been my experience I. It reminded me of a time it's a little bit different, but it reminded me of a time it's a little bit different, um, but it reminded me of a time when the model you know fake the phone call and said, uh, hey, you know I got to leave, or whatever.

Speaker 2:

She didn't even say that I got to go talk to my friend. My friend has the flu yeah.

Speaker 1:

Has the flu. I remember when I was like eight or nine years old we were playing lawn darts at a friend's house and we threw a dart and it hits, hit a hornet's nest in a tree, so somebody the bees came down and stung, something, stung. My friend and I was I'm definitely afraid of bees, right, and I was the one, I think, who threw the lawn dart. I think it was called jarts, if I'm not mistaken yeah, and I remember telling my, my friend's mother.

Speaker 1:

I said I said my mom said if anybody gets stung by a bee, that I I really need to go home. Um, and that was my excuse and I don't know where that story just came from, but it reminded me when I was watching that, yeah, you gotta have an exit strategy, to have an exit strategy. Have an exit strategy. That was the wrong exit strategy and I think I just lost all of our listeners with that.

Speaker 2:

No, no I mean. But that's interesting that you say that, because, in terms of, we talk a lot about networking in leadership and we have had a guest on our other show, leadership Rules, derek Finney Kenny, who talks about when students or new leaders, young leaders, are learning to network. One of the reasons they avoid it is because they're afraid they're going to get stuck in a situation and don't know how to get themselves out. So he recommends practicing, you know, in Target, walmart, wherever you are to go up to someone that you would maybe normally pass and say hello or, as he says, dip into the chip aisle and avoid, but have in mind an exit line of how to escape so that you feel comfortable. And that's how you can sort of learn some networking skills.

Speaker 2:

But as a side note, I think every parent has given their child an out. My mom would always say if you're not comfortable riding with someone, you just tell them. My mom doesn't let me ride with. And I said that to my best friend who was a terrible driver my mom won't let me ride with you. And I came home and I said to my mom don't forget, you won't let me ride with her. So yeah, but I think the notion of an exit strategy is a good idea, because the way Zava did it isn't the right way to do it. The way Shandy did it certainly isn't the right way to do it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think. Another thing that is clear is that I just came off of vacation and is carrying this episode, so thank you.

Speaker 2:

Oh, you're fun.

Speaker 1:

So let's talk about Shandy for just a second.

Speaker 2:

We have to.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think I think firing people is hard, so we'll bring it to Keeley with Shandy. It's probably the hardest thing, if I think of all the difficult experiences I've had in my career. At the top of the list are certainly five to 10 examples of having to let people go, and in this episode Jack gives Keely a little advice in terms of how to maybe have the conversation with Shandy, and she calls it, as we all are well aware of the term, a compliment sandwich. So I know you have feelings on compliment sandwiches as do I.

Speaker 1:

What say you about that whole scene and the way it played out?

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean, first it was funny the way that Jack gives Keely the line and Keely thinks she's getting fired. So that just that good, good comic writing on that one. So you know, the threat of comment of compliment sandwiches is folks won't hear what you're saying, uh, and sometimes the message gets lost. So that is particularly dangerous in things like performance reviews or giving feedback on a short term. I get why you do it when you're firing someone because you want to help them recover their ego. I find the beginning of telling someone their strengths is certainly fine. But one thing that I had been told by mentors is if you give too much of a compliment at the beginning of firing someone, you are then making them question then why are you firing me? Is it something else? So you need to be careful with the compliment sandwich from an HR legal standpoint. So that's part one. I probably could go on for days. But what say you?

Speaker 1:

I completely agree with you. Probably could go on for days. But what say you? I completely agree with you. I think if you're ever in that position, there's cause and there's reason and hopefully you have a history of feedback that you can draw back on you better. Yeah, but I think, from the standpoint of when it comes to that meeting number one, obviously it should never be a surprise. In this case, with Chandy, it was a surprise because she had a false sense of of the impact that she was having on the organization which, by the way, happens all the time and even if you are prepared for it, even if you have documented, you've had conversations, yeah, I've, I've still, I've gone down that road, I've been in position, and there is always some surprise or disagreement.

Speaker 1:

I think if you're ever in a position where you're letting somebody go, clearly it goes without saying the work is done all up front and getting to that point. But you know sending out compliments upfront and getting to that point, but you know sending out compliments. I would, I would honestly suggest that you don't even do that. It's, it's direct, it's facts. This is the one time we often talk about storytelling and how much more effective that is than um than reciting facts.

Speaker 1:

This is the one time where I disagree with that, that that way of thinking. This is all about facts, why it's happening procedurally, what will happen, and move on and try to avoid actually getting into emotional conversations like that Right.

Speaker 2:

As Brene Brown would say, clear is kind. This is a very important place to be clear because you don't want to leave room for fuzzy like legally or or personally. It just doesn't feel good.

Speaker 1:

A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Um, the only other thing that I had. That um was on the list. Uh, so I'll give you this and then you can tell me if you had something better. But we've talked about just in our own conversations the impact of ghosting people and I think we had the ultimate ghosting with Zava at this point just leaving the team.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, do you want?

Speaker 1:

to talk about that, or you want to talk about something else, as we continue, as we wrap up here.

Speaker 2:

Well, the only other thing that I had was the was Ted in the belief and, you know, wanting to believe that things can be better and will be better.

Speaker 1:

I think that's a much better one, for sure, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So with ghosting, I'll just say, agreed, no, communication is the worst. Don't do it. Don't ghost people. Be a grown up, do the right thing. So I'm with you. I think when I was listening to this and we're watching this episode, I was trying to think about all of the clips that people replay and all the things that we see talked about on social media about this episode, and there's a lot of fussing about the three characters that we've mentioned. But the one scene that does get replayed is the I believe and the tearing up the sign and say it is just a sign and if you believe in that, nobody can rip that apart.

Speaker 1:

Yep, yeah, and I was at first. You're watching it, You're frustrated because Ted is really not addressing anything in the room. And then there's, there's something that that I think when he walks out, maybe the belief sign rips right.

Speaker 2:

Is that what gets him to turn around?

Speaker 1:

So first, I'm like Ted. Why aren't you saying anything you know we've got a lot going on. You're losing you just lost Saba, but but the whole notion that you know, I, I love. When he said that, I forget the exact words that he used like crap, like envy, fear, shame, get in our way.

Speaker 1:

You know, belief just doesn't happen because you hang something on the wall. You got to do the work, right? I think that was the message, and he goes on from there, right, that I believe you got message and it goes. He goes on from there, right. That that I believe you got to believe in yourself, one another. It's fundamental to being alive. But my message there is, you know, it's not just a sign, right, it's not just the motto, it's not just your core values. You have to live it out, you have to do the work. We talk about that all the time. And then, if you, if you throw in everything else that we've been talking about, in order to do the work, you have to do the self-reflection, uh, which everybody in this episode is starting to do, and you should probably not ignore Jamie, like everybody's been ignoring him the entire season.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, jamie went from making sure he was loud and being heard to trying to figure out his new way. We'll get there. I couldn't agree with any of that more. That is exactly a good tie-in to the episode. I'll throw out one more little thing as a pre-Easter egg, because I didn't notice it until this time. When AFC Richmond was losing or had lost, and they're walking off the field, a fan shouts right at McAdoo, mcadoo, you're crap. And McAdoo doesn't do anything with it In the future.

Speaker 1:

McAdoo is going to.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, stay tuned, I'll leave it there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's all right. So, speaking of leave it there, we'll leave it there. That is our, as Roy would say, whistle, whistle.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Game's over, but the leadership lessons keep playing.

Speaker 2:

So, as a reminder like Roy, you can find us here, there, in every effing where at lead it like lasso. And if you like this type of content, please like Roy, you can find us here, there and everywhere at Lead it Like Lasso. And if you like this type of content, please like. Comment, share, subscribe, hit the button, hit the bell, do all the things. We appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so until next time stay curious, stay kind and keep leading it like lasso.

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Marnie Stockman

Host
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Nick Coniglio

Host