The Drug Report
The Drug Report
Drug Policy News Roundup
Can marijuana regulation backfire on public health? Join us on the Drug Report podcast as we celebrate International Recovery Day and tackle this provocative question with insights from experts like Michael Botticelli and John Kelly. We'll share highlights from a global webinar focused on the mechanisms and societal support necessary for successful recovery. We'll also respond to Robert Gebeloff's Washington Post column advocating for federal marijuana regulation, raising concerns about big tobacco's potential entry into the marijuana market and the resulting public health issues. Plus, you'll hear a detailed recount of the recent debate on Florida's Amendment 3 for recreational marijuana legalization, shedding light on the ongoing complexities in drug policy reform.
Are veterans being misled about marijuana's effects on PTSD? In a crucial segment of this episode, Kevin Sabet and I dismantle the misinformation spreading within veteran communities. Drawing on recent studies, including research from Yale University, we reveal that marijuana may actually worsen PTSD symptoms, contradicting popular belief. We underscore the importance of distributing accurate information to better support our veterans and encourage our listeners to help by leaving a five-star rating and writing a review. Gain valuable insights and join the conversation on drug policy and recovery by tuning in to this thought-provoking and informative episode.
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Yes or no? Do you believe nicotine is not addictive?
Speaker 2:I believe nicotine is not addictive. Yes, Congressman, cigarettes and nicotine clearly do not meet the classic definitions of addiction.
Speaker 1:I don't believe that nicotine for our products are addictive?
Speaker 1:I believe nicotine is not addictive. I believe that nicotine is not addictive. Hi everyone, this is Luke Nifiratis. I am your host of the Drug Report podcast. Thank you for joining us again for another wonderful week. Our co-sponsors Smart Approaches to Marijuana at learnaboutsamorg, and the Foundation for Drug Policy Solutions at gooddrugpolicyorg those are the two organizations you can thank for making this happen, and I have none other than the illustrious co-founder and CEO, kevin Sabet, here with me today. Kevin, how are you doing? Doing well. Thank you, how are you Good? Thanks for joining us. What's on your mind? There's a lot of things we could talk about today, but I figured you could fill folks in on just some of the things you've been up to, just even over the last week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's just been a lot happening. Today is International Recovery Day, so we want to celebrate that and wish everyone a happy recovery day. I was lucky enough to join in on a global webinar with former ONDCP director Michael Botticelli, as well as Harvard professor John Kelly, who's probably done more on this from an academic perspective than anybody in the country in terms of studying recovery and how to keep people in recovery and what mechanisms need to be there in society to encourage recovery. So I was very honored to join them on this podcast. There were over 500 people on, which was great, and then it was recorded. So many more we'll see it later. It was also co-sponsored by the United Nations and CCAD, oas Organization of American States, so it was great.
Speaker 2:I talked a little bit about a couple of things. One interesting fact that about half of people in recovery did not go to formal treatment, so it's interesting to think about what got them into recovery. What were the things and mechanisms, the sometimes pressure, the nudges that got them into recovery. So talked a little bit about that. Talked a little bit about some cautionary tales, what's been going on in British Columbia, as well as what happened in Oregon with the repeal of their drug decriminalization experiment there, and a little bit about Portugal, which I think is often misunderstood, and I sort of had some mixed findings. But so I was talking about that and really just prefacing everything under that. You know, meet people where they're at but don't leave them where they're at quote that we like to talk about a lot.
Speaker 1:That's excellent. That's great. So yeah, we're doing a lot of work internationally and then bringing it home on marijuana policy. You had a nice letter to the editor in the Washington Post home on marijuana policy.
Speaker 2:You had a nice letter to the editor in the Washington Post. Oh yeah, this was something that was kind of you know, one of these things that gets written sort of you know two weeks ago and then gets published just recently. So it was published, I believe, late last week and then we got it out to folks, but basically it was a response to the column the Robert Geldof column about you know how should Harris approach drug policy basically, and you know his argument is interesting. It's basically saying, you know, you know marijuana is, like what we say, a lot more harmful than we think. That you know we need to, you know, be very worried about today's highly potent marijuana, and we should, we should be very concerned about that. But then you know the his answer is well, gebeloff's answer is well, the way to deal with that is to federally legalize it so we can regulate it.
Speaker 2:And I see the allure of that, because we have a horrible situation happening right now where we have this patchwork of bad laws, very bad regulations. States have no idea what they're doing really, and so essentially we need to. You know it's tempting to say, well, you know what. So essentially it's tempting to say well, you know what, if the feds took it over it would be better. But I don't have a lot of faith that if the feds took it over it would be better, because we've never really. Two months after legalization, you know, the big tobacco and alcohol giants, altria and Constellation Brands poured billions into it. Their car crashes have gone up, hospital admissions skyrocketed, and and it's gotten so it's gotten a lot worse. You know, in the and then in the US, of course, we just see this big tobacco playbook being regenerated. So that was what the letter was about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really good and really prescient as well, because now we are seeing and for those of you who don't follow us on Twitter, you should Check out, learn About Sam on Twitter. Kevin's in my accounts as well RJ Reynolds is hiring for a person in their cannabis division and it's parentheses beyond nicotine. So the big tobacco industry is already looking for the latest addictive substances that are being legalized to incorporate into their portfolio of deadly products, and so I think that's obviously just puts an exclamation point on that point of not bringing big tobacco back. And you know, I do think that one of the biggest issues I had with that Washington Post op-ed was, you know, pointing out all the problems, all the potency issues, the crashes, the psychosis and all of that. Those problems are happening now they have been exacerbated because of legalization. So the answer is not legalization, because legalization is what created this. So, anyway, that that just logically didn't make sense to me. But so so that was a great piece. You wrote Kevin on that.
Speaker 1:And then, obviously, for those of you who follow us, you know probably that I just got back a few days ago from debating John Morgan, the you know the namesake of Morgan Morgan law firm, the probably one of the largest faces of the pro marijuana movement and he lives in Florida and so we debated Florida's Amendment 3 to legalize recreational marijuana In that debate. If you go watch, the live stream is on Twitter so you can check our Twitter account to watch it. If you want to watch it. It's about two hours but we had a lot of fun. It was a wild and rowdy bunch. He refused to believe that big tobacco was involved in the marijuana industry. He didn't know about it. I brought up Altria, I brought up RJ Reynolds, and his firm has secured lawsuits against those tobacco companies. But he was refusing to believe that tobacco is involved in marijuana because he didn't want to talk about it. So I just think that?
Speaker 2:Do you think he doesn't know, or do you think he's? I mean, he's probably in such a bubble he actually really doesn't know because he's protected, or is he lying?
Speaker 1:I you know, it's really hard to tell with him. I think there is a case to be made that he probably has no idea because basically the whole debate, night of the debate, he just talked about how he uses it every day, every night, and it's fine and everyone's going to make a lot of money off of this, and that was basically. Those were his two essential points and that this was like other other issues. So he doesn't seem to really be spending a lot of time researching this or thinking about the ramifications?
Speaker 2:No, because he's just using it and he loves it, so that's why he wants to use it.
Speaker 1:That's right. And one thing that was funny though, kevin. I asked him at one point in the debate. I said because he said I've been using it. He's like I'm rich and I've been using it every day. I said were you using it every day when you were building your company? He paused and then he said I've been using it a long time. You got it on that. It's absolutely right, john. You were not using every day when you were building one of the country's largest law firms. Very interesting, very, very, very interesting yeah.
Speaker 2:We learned a lot from that. So anyway, very interesting.
Speaker 1:Very, very, very interesting. Yeah, so we learned a lot from that. Well, you did it.
Speaker 2:You cleaned his clock. I got to say and if anybody hasn't checked it out, you can check it out on my Twitter, on Sam's Twitter, on Luke's. It was incredible, I mean, you did everything right. You, at once, you know it's like you charmed him Right. You at once, you know it's like you charmed him. You also destroyed him. That was the best way to do it, and I mean that obviously destroyed, not really literally, but we respect everybody and he's an interesting guy. I debated him back eight years ago. I definitely did not charm him and he thought that I was responsible for the opioid epidemic because I'm a doctor, even though I'm a PhD, not that kind of doctor. So very, very weird stuff. I was actually. He was tamer than I thought he was going to be and I really think it's because he was afraid of you. Actually, you did a great job.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you Kevin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we both got our bite at the apple no-transcript webinar, webinar seminar that they do and next year it's in denver. This I think it was two years ago in san diego or something and it was with judges and law enforcement, but a lot of marijuana industry folks were there. That I was not expecting. But the hemp issue and the fight that they're in is just so out there. The marijuana people don't like hemp, the hemp people don't like marijuana, which is really interesting because they were know they were really joined, joined up before marijuana legalization happened. So very interesting to kind of see how that's going to play out For sure, for sure.
Speaker 1:And then the final thing I want to make sure people saw is that you know, longtime friend of Kevin's and ally of ours, dr Paul Chabot, wrote a fantastic piece that just came out today in Real Clear Defense. So Real Clear Politics has different sections and they have a defense section and it's on this whole issue of testing in the military for marijuana and how we still need to keep doing that. And he has a decorated career of service in the military as well as in federal government. Dr Paul Chabot does. So definitely make sure you read that piece. It's going to go out in the Drug Report newsletter tomorrow as well, but that highlights how important that issue is also.
Speaker 2:Big, big time and you know our veterans are being completely misled on this, even though the largest studies, including from Yale University, are finding that, you know, marijuana actually exacerbates these PTSD symptoms. So very, very important.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so, kevin. Thank you for joining me, as always, and thank you to our listeners. Please leave us a five star rating, please, and write a review. We'd appreciate that. Have a wonderful rest of your week.