The Drug Report
The Drug Report
Breaking Down VP Harris' Marijuana Plan
Is federal marijuana legalization truly a win for Black men, or are there hidden pitfalls? Join us as we take a hard look at Vice President Kamala Harris's proposal, focusing on its goal to dismantle systemic barriers and whether it achieves this when it poses new public health risks. With insightful commentary from Will Jones of SAM, we unravel the intricate dynamics between promising business opportunities and the risks of corporate exploitation in the marijuana industry. By drawing parallels with historical public health challenges like the tobacco industry's impact, we critically question whether this federal move could inadvertently harm the communities it seeks to empower.
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Yes or no? Do you believe nicotine is not addictive?
Speaker 2:I believe nicotine is not addictive yes, congressman, cigarettes and nicotine clearly do not meet the classic definitions of addiction. I don't believe that nicotine for our products are addictive. I believe nicotine is not addictive. I believe that nicotine is not addictive.
Speaker 1:Hello everyone, this is Luke Neferatos. I am your host of the Drug Report podcast. Thank you for joining us for another wonderful show brought to you by SAM, the Smart Approaches to Marijuana, as well as FDPS, the Foundation for Drug Policy Solutions, and if you aren't getting our twice-weekly newsletters of all the drug policy news analysis that you need, please go to thedrugreportorg. Well, today I'm thrilled because my friend, also the longest-serving employee at SAM who's back from a health hiatus, will Jones, is on the show. Will, thanks for joining us. Great to have you.
Speaker 1:So let's dive in. I want to talk about the Vice President Kamala Harris's opportunity plan for Black men. Particularly is how this is being kind of played out in the media, and so her plan for opportunity for black men is cryptocurrency, some forgivable loans and, yes, now the federal legalization of marijuana. So here's a few quotes from the CNBC story on this. So Harris says quote she will break down unjust legal barriers that hold black men and other Americans back by legalizing marijuana nationally, working with Congress to ensure that the safe cultivation, distribution and possession of recreational marijuana is the law of the land. Quote she will also fight to ensure that, as the national cannabis industry takes shape, black men who have for years been over police for marijuana use are able to access wealth and jobs in this new market. And her final kind of quote on this is just that this is something that's going to make right the wrongs of incarceration related to marijuana. So that's her plan. She thinks federal marijuana legalization means opportunity for black men in America. Will? I'd love to get your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's a couple immediate things that come to mind as I was reading over that and looking at the details. The first thing is just talking about the legalization issue and I want to touch on that and then go into the opportunities within the industry as a cause. I see there's just two separate things. You know she said she wants to remove, I think, like unjust, you know, legal issues and things like that that have been holding black Americans and others back One. So the stated goal of that and I'm sure you would agree with this is good in the sense of we don't want anyone to be suffering unjustly, we don't want to have anyone have the law applied to them in an unfair, unjust manner, and I think we could all agree that you know the extent to which we can have the law applied, you know, evenly to all people, that is the goal of the high school of government.
Speaker 1:That's where we're all aiming.
Speaker 2:Right. I think where I'm getting off the ship is that and I know you agree here is that somehow that legalization is the necessary step or the best step, or the step in best interest of public policy, public health and even if we want to get as specific as this plan for Black men, that that is going to be a helpful step. And I think that we can look at that one just in terms of other. You know we can. You know the tobacco industry, for example, when we see the impact of recreational drug use that has negative health impacts to it and again, not saying that everyone's going to have a terrible negative health impact, right, but when you look at it on the whole for example, smoking cigarettes on the whole lots of people have negative health impacts from that. So the immediate question that we ask is and I think that we need to really talk about, which obviously isn't being talked about enough is the health impacts and the public health costs of having more people using marijuana. Because if it's legalized at the federal level, without a doubt more people will start using. That's the nature of it. That's why you know the second part of the talk about the business aspect of it, and we also know that there's big conglomerations that would love for it to be legalized at the national, at the federal level, like big tobacco companies that have already have a stated goal that you know they want it legalized at the federal level and you know they would immediately hop in the business if that takes place.
Speaker 2:And so when we look at the impact of smoking, we see that there's a disproportionate impact on minority communities. And I think anything when, because of disparities that continue to exist in 2024 in the US, when there are things with negative public health impacts, it is minorities that are going to get the suffer the worst from that, get the brunt end of that, and so, you know, will there be, you know, if it's legalized at the federal level and a lot more people start smoking. Yes, there's some people that will, you know, probably use it and have no ill effects on themselves, right, but on the whole, you know, and we all know people that say, yeah, you know, I've smoked cigarettes, I'm 80 years old and I'm in good health. So not to say that there won't be those exceptions, but on the whole, we will see a lot more of the things that we're already seeing in legalized states, with children suffering from secondhand smoke and the impact that's having on their schooling. What we're seeing in terms of mental health issues from people, especially from the high-potency THC products.
Speaker 1:I think something to add on to that is point about these, the harms being felt disproportionately by black and other minority communities. Just look at what and you bring up the cigarette example, and it's a good one. Just look at what we tried to do with cigarettes. Just as recently as this year, the we, public health groups, the NAACP, everyone was asking for a menthol ban, which they estimate could save countless black lives, specifically a menthol ban for cigarettes, and the industry was able to shut that down. The Biden administration tabled that rule that would have been for the public health of specifically. This was about the fact that the black community is targeted with these products.
Speaker 2:Which makes it ironic with this. It's like we see that the industry we are still unable to effectively regulate the industry when it comes to these types of things. We see, you know, as you mentioned menthol, cigarettes and how the companies and you know it's in their documents specifically target minority communities and you know there's there's also a you know it's good business for them in the sense of if you're in a community I don't, you know, from this aspect I don't think it has to do with race but if you're in a disadvantaged community that has less resources to combat addiction, then if your company profits off of addiction, then you're going to have more, you know, bang for your buck and have more value in a community that doesn't have the resources to combat addiction to your product. We can look at this with alcohol too. If, when drinking becomes problematic for someone we've mentioned smoking and things like that it is the people with less resources in disadvantaged communities which, yes, in the US, it is black communities that don't have the resources to combat that, and so for somebody that is, you know, has a problem drinking, it's going to be a lot harder for them to, you know, if they need to get in a treatment program or something like that. Well, you don't have the resources to stop that. But from the alcohol companies, you know that make 75% of the revenue from people that drink, on average, 10 drinks a day. Well, again, the person that can't get help is going to be bringing in more revenue, more profit for the company, and so that's from a public health perspective.
Speaker 2:That was my immediate reaction to reading that and hearing that is that it's going to be minority communities that suffer the most from the legalization of marijuana, because it's something that does have negative public health impacts. It does. We're looking at this at state by states. We are seeing the impact that it's having on mental health, on youth, particularly youth is a huge concern, and so I think that's something that is, you know, we, I think we can acknowledge that we see the intention behind it, but I, you know, I would, as I've always said, we should focus on where the law is being applied in an unjust manner. We should focus on that. We can explore avenues where things along the lines of decriminalization, where people are not saddled with a criminal record for possession or use of marijuana, but that doesn't necessitate creating a multi-billion dollar industry.
Speaker 1:The big tobacco companies have already said it wouldn't be good to you. Look at these big tobacco companies and big alcohol boards. There's no people of color on these boards. I mean, there's barely any women on these boards. So the idea that this is going to create any kind of equity, as she's alluding to here in the plan, is ridiculous. And now let's just look at the marijuana industry. Where Will I know? You're aware, less than 5% of the entire national marijuana industry is owned by Black people and it's very low across the board, across all demographics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that leads to the second point. So I think the first point is just the health perspective of legalization. California, other places, they said we're going to have entrepreneurs of color be the first at the table, they're going to be the ones to get licenses, et cetera. And we just haven't seen it happen anywhere. Organizations, minority organizations for that are in favor of, you know, legalization and getting people of color into the industry flat out say, hey, this isn't work, this, you know, it's been, it's been lies, it's been, you know, things like that. And so we really have no evidence from what's happened in any state so far that that would be a success at the national level.
Speaker 2:And I think even deeper than that. You know, to tie it back to that health issue, even if you know, theoretically right, even if there were a few individuals that were, you know, people of color that were able to, you know, have a successful business from this, my question is always going to be what is the impact of that business in your community? So it comes back to that health issue that even and I've said this before in debates I don't care if you're purple, if you're an alien or whatever, if your business isn't one that is going to be helping members of society. If your business isn't one that's going to be helping the community, your color, you know it becomes secondary at that point. So that's the other thing that even if the goal of having equity in this were to be realized somehow which again hasn't been anywhere you still have to have this analysis of you know.
Speaker 2:To take it in my example, where I started working on this issue, in DC, closest store in my house, any directions, a liquor store. I've said that a lot of times, quite frankly, I don't care the color of the person that owns that liquor store. You see the impact that the liquor store is having on the community and you're like this is not something you know. Having that store in every other corner is not something that's beneficial for the community or the health of the community. So it brings it back to that as well. And the last component of that, as I know you're aware of, if it were to be legalized at the federal level, the people making significant, life-changing money would really just be a few individuals at the top of these conglomerates, this idea that there's going to be, you know, on a community level, change of, you know, multiple people having these small businesses. That hasn't panned out anywhere, and we see that big companies are pushing for it, for this, because they're the ones that's right.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think you know, just to kind of give the other side of the coin, here you have another Democratic black woman who's running for office in Angela, also Brooks, in Maryland. Now, her recent comments in the debate she did ultimately say she would vote for legalization, but she couched it in terms that I think were much more balanced in terms of she said she was concerned about the impact on children, the idea that children would get into these products. She had concerns about the health aspect of this policy and she was just overall a very skeptical eye when it comes to federal legalization. And so I think what also Brooks did, I think laid much more of an angle, if you're going to support it, couching it, at least acknowledging the problems, which Angela did, which I think was fantastic. So I think that, provided you know, really kind of, in my opinion, really shamed Kamala's rollout of this, in my opinion, because this rollout doesn't even acknowledge the potential harms that you're talking about for these communities.
Speaker 2:Right, and you would think that when we're talking about something that has you know known health effects and things like that, that part of the conversation would be the harms of it. We're not talking about something that has you know like you know, cryptocurrency is something you know something different, right, that's not a health issue. Right, we're talking about something that is you know, a drug that has you know as we're hearing more and more parents come out across the country with how it's impacted their youth, their kids, some of them losing their kids to suicide from the mental health impacts of this. And then we also know you know things like that. The complete absence of any awareness or discussion or incorporating any concern about the impacts of having another drug legalized at the federal level and how that could impact public health is really the response.
Speaker 1:I agree. Well, will, thank you for your analysis of this. I think this is a key news story. Obviously, Kamala is the first presidential candidate, I think, to introduce a federal legalization plan like this, so obviously this is going to be a topic we'll continue to discuss, regardless of what ends up happening on election day, and we are thankful that there are people that are in her circle that are not quite as gung-ho about legalization. So I think, you know, thankfully, there are going to be opportunities, I think, for us to have discussions, no matter who is in office, about these issues. So more to come, thanks to our listeners. Thank you, will, for joining us. Please leave us a review Five stars, we appreciate that, and a written review is always great too and have a wonderful rest of your week.