The Drug Report
The Drug Report
Drug Policy News & Policy Outlook for New Congress
Can relentless advocacy truly shape the future of marijuana legislation? Join us on the Drug Report podcast as we explore the recent triumph in New Hampshire, where the unwavering efforts of advocates have led Governor Kelly Ayotte to promise a veto on any future marijuana legalization attempts. This victory shines a light on the power of persistence in the ever-evolving landscape of drug policy. As we navigate through these pivotal changes, we're also dissecting the challenges faced by the marijuana industry in New York, revealing how initial promises of social equity have not been fulfilled, leaving many equity applicants in financial distress. Kevin Sabet's op-ed adds a critical perspective to our discussion, emphasizing the widening gap between wealthy investors and disenfranchised communities.
Our conversation takes a crucial turn as we tackle issues surrounding medical marijuana prescriptions, drawing comparisons to the opioid crisis of the 1990s. How can we ensure patient safety when a small group of doctors dominates the recommendation landscape? We're also looking at the ongoing efforts in Florida to legalize marijuana and the strategic legislative initiatives being considered by the new Congress. Randy's resolution serves as a cornerstone in raising awareness about the risks of high-potency THC, reflecting a broader strategic approach to drug policy reform and patient protection.
Federal marijuana legalization remains a hot topic, with the complexities of state and federal enforcement at the forefront. We address the urgent need for Congress to empower the DOJ in regulating marijuana sales near schools, while also examining the emerging debate around Delta 8, especially as companies like DoorDash enter the market. The unexpected halt in the marijuana rescheduling process due to an industry-filed motion has opened the door for broader scrutiny and discussion. President Trump's ambiguous remarks about the Safe Banking Act add another layer of uncertainty, as we acknowledge the collaborative efforts of advocates striving to navigate these challenging waters. Join us as we break down these pressing issues and stay informed on the latest developments.
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Yes or no? Do you believe nicotine is not addictive?
Speaker 2:I believe nicotine is not addictive. Yes, Congressman, cigarettes and nicotine clearly do not meet the classic definitions of addiction.
Speaker 1:I don't believe that nicotine for our products are addictive.
Speaker 1:I believe nicotine is not addictive. Happy New Year, everyone. Welcome back to the Drug Report podcast. It's been a little while. We're thankful to all of you for continuing to listen and support all of our content that we are pushing out from SAM and FDPS, the organizations that help make this podcast possible. I'm Luke DeFerratis, your host, and today I am joined again by our illustrious team member and friend and just all around great guy, jordan Davidson, who is going to give us a federal update in just a little bit, kind of give us some the big picture, kind of what we are expecting, what we're watching and working on in this new Congress. So, jordan, welcome. Thank you, luke.
Speaker 1:So before we get to that, though, I do want to hit on some of the big news that we are tracking right now here, at the outset of 2025. So right now we're really excited. We just got news from New Hampshire that, for those of you who were watching New Hampshire last year, you know it was tight. Governor Sununu, who has been a longtime ally and friend of ours and very opposed to commercializing marijuana, flipped his position for whatever reason, and things looked really dire. For whatever reason, and things looked really dire. Our advocates worked across both parties. They worked to all hours of the night and in the 11th hour. They were able to secure a huge victory in defeating legalization last year in New Hampshire and we were not predicted to win that, so it was a big win.
Speaker 1:And now, here at the outset of the new session, with a new governor now Governor Kelly Ayotte in New Hampshire who has promised to veto and oppose marijuana legalization in the state. Now we have the House Speaker, who is in support of legalization, saying they probably won't even pick up the marijuana issue again for another decade. That was his words. So that is a huge win and it shows how important advocacy is, because you keep fighting and I think a lot of people think well, you know, they're just going to be back next year, we're just going to. You know it'll come eventually.
Speaker 1:You hear those refrains and this is just a great sign of how that's not true. You have to outlast your opponents, and so kudos to Bill Lutie and Sue Hamola and Deb Naro and all the other people in New Hampshire who have worked so hard to achieve this. It's just got to feel fantastic to have the House Speaker making a statement like we're not going to pick this issue up for a decade. I mean, you never hear that right, Jordan. Have you ever heard that made, whether the federal or the state level?
Speaker 2:I have never heard that before, Luke, and it was certainly hope inspiring for us. And you know, I think this is kind of part of what I see, at least as a broader trend of it's being increasingly difficult and we saw this in November for kind of new states to legalize marijuana. And so in terms of like the 30,000 foot path forward, both federally and at the state level, I see a lot of momentum stopping, slowing down for the legalization industry and I see at the same time an increase in both the mainstream media and just kind of your everyday average American and average family and increased awareness about the dangers of high potency marijuana. And I think that combination is lethal for the marijuana industry and a shot in the arm for us because we can finally start to enact stronger regulations, kind of like roll, the kind of tie back on the legalization movement.
Speaker 1:And yeah just beginning.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree. So that's fantastic news. We couldn't wait to share that with you. We're also watching in other states, so in New York, many of you hopefully have seen Kevin Sabet, our CEO, his recent op-ed in the Buffalo News, where he talks about the fact that.
Speaker 1:So right now you have a situation where one of the legalization bill sponsors in New York the legalization bill sponsors in New York who led the fight for legalization said this would be a boon for social equity. It would return money and opportunity to disenfranchised black and brown communities. You know she is now calling on more taxpayer dollars to be given to bail out equity applicants in the marijuana industry there in New York who they've taken these various loans. They're defaulting on the loans because the costs of business have exceeded what they estimated. They're getting basically for lack of a better word screwed in getting into business in the marijuana industry, and now she's calling for more taxpayer dollars to be poured into this. And this is something that is not a surprise.
Speaker 1:Our organization, when fighting this fight in New York in 2017, 18, 19, 20, we warned that this would happen. That legalization was actually about corporations and people who already had money to get into the business. That those who are coming into this and they've never been in business before, they do not have all the advantages of being a wealthy white investor from Silicon Valley or Wall Street. They are not going to be able to thrive in this, in that environment, that this bill would not bring about justice, and so his op-ed in the Buffalo news last week talks about that. I encourage you to read it. Jordan, I don't know if you have anything you wanted to add to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean, it's just like you know. I've seen comments from, I think, representative or like people Stokes, who led this, just kind of utter shock almost at some of the stuff that hasn't worked out as was envisioned, and it's like it feels like Groundhog Day for us, luke. This happens time and time again. If only you know, when you go to states, people's claim that they're bringing in experts from other states to see what they've done, but oftentimes it's people who are very biased. If only these states actually brought in people who are on the ground and seeing the impact of this, maybe some things could be prevented. But they haven't seemed to catch on. They can't say they weren't warned, they certainly cannot say that they were not warned.
Speaker 1:So those are some big news items. The last thing I wanted to highlight and all this will be fleshed out even more in the newsletter that's going to hit were involved in very nefarious business dealings former drug dealers, former federal convicts, who had lost their licenses, had them reinstated. Those were the primary doctors involved in this quote unquote medical marijuana program in Pennsylvania and that story just continues to unfold. It's like they keep going back to the well and finding more information. So the latest on that story and this is in our newsletter they're reporting in Pennsylvania that only a handful of their doctors in the state approved one third of all of the medical pot cards in a single year. And so that says you know experts are questioning the quality of care. So you literally have a handful, so just a few doctors who are providing tens of thousands, if not more, of these medical cards granting access to these marijuana products under the guise of medicine. And remember that they're not prescribed. There's no dosage, there's no refills, there's no contraindications, there's no warnings, there's no, there's nothing that gives any guidance. It's just a card that says you can go buy marijuana and the marijuana is the same marijuana you can buy in a recreational store. So it is just astonishing that this continues.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of talk at the Capitol We've been working in Harrisburg for quite some time and there's a lot of talk about what to do about it and obviously the industry doesn't want to do anything about it. But for those who care about medicine and those who care about patient safety, these are concerns that we think are eventually going to get heard at the Capitol there. So important to understand that this is also not exclusive to Pennsylvania, this issue of a handful of doctors providing most of the prescriptions. It was actually widely documented that in Oklahoma, one doctor provided, I think, more than 20% of all their prescriptions or, excuse me, recommendations. Florida. This dynamic is at play In Colorado. Less than a fraction of 1% of the doctors in Colorado provide medical marijuana recommendations. So we're talking about a small number of physicians who actually will participate in this and, as the Pennsylvania reporting indicates, that subset of the physician population is not exactly the subset of the physician population that's getting Doctor of the Year award from the American Medical Association.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, yeah Look just to chime in on this, like when this story first came out. I've said this to our team internally. When this story first came out, I think it was the most upsetting story that I had seen in our field in the over five years that I've worked in drug policy, and this is one thing I say this is the hill I'll die on that I is based off of selling one single drug to as many people as possible in quick appointments for whatever illness or ailment they claim to present. That's how people got addicted to opioids in the 1990s. That's just what happened. I don't see the difference here.
Speaker 1:And how did they track those doctors who were prescribing all of the OxyContin? They, they they tracked who was prescribing the most, who was. They weren't prescribing other medications and all this money was coming in the door. It didn't make sense. And it's this you're exactly right.
Speaker 2:And and and not even that. It's like you know, we talk about big tobacco, right, and we say this is the new big tobacco and then we say literally right, because big tobacco is actually investing in this industry, this is the pill mills. Literally, because if you read these reports, some of the doctors who are engaged in those businesses selling opioids who went to prison, like you said, like they did that for opioids and for even like illicit methadone clinics and things that weren't regulated, that they were just handing out. It's the same doctors. So I don't see a difference here and it's very upsetting to me. I think it's a disgrace to the kind of name of medicine. It is.
Speaker 1:It absolutely is so great. So just wanted to touch on those headlines. And again, 2025 is off to a really rocking start. Florida, the safe and I think it's called safe and secure Florida. The ballot campaign to legalize marijuana that lost after spending 150 million last year and the gigantic tidal wave victory we had in Florida there, they have now refiled and they're planning to start signature gathering to bring legalization to Florida again. So that fight is starting to, you know, this very nation. At this stage, we'll see if they can even raise the money, if they can even put up a reasonable effort. It'll take a lot, so we'll see. But states are starting to pick up these issues and we will continue to track them and provide you analysis and guidance. And so, with that, I really want to talk about this new Congress. We have Jordan, this new administration. We have Jordan, this new administration we have. What are we watching? What are you seeing? What are you hearing? Obviously, things change by the minute there at the Capitol.
Speaker 2:But what's the outlook? Yeah, I think the outlook is really really good for us, Luke. I think we have a really unique opportunity to go on offense, and we've really laid the groundwork for doing so even in the last Congress. And so, on the one hand, right like there are kind of two buckets here, things that we've already begun working on, and then new initiatives that we can launch this year. So, whether it's standalone bills like Randy's resolution, which is a bill that we had introduced, that we helped write to raise awareness about high potency THC and the negative mental and physical health impacts that's getting reintroduced.
Speaker 1:And that's named after Randy Backus Jr. The Packers family for those of you who know them lost their son to cause from high potency marijuana, so that was really important to put his name on this and place a face to this tragedy that's happening all across the country.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you know things like that and you know other things like appropriations provisions for government funding, that we've kind of gotten across the finish line. You know some really key examples. We one of the most interesting areas has been allowing the DOJ to really enforce federal laws that Congress has for the past decade kind of prevented them from enforcing. Regarding marijuana legalization specifically selling marijuana near schools Right, some of these dispensaries in states are breaking federal law allowing the sale of controlled substances within, well within a thousand feet of a school zone. So there are dispensaries popping up right across the street from elementary schools. I mean, that's terrible for the development of young people and their education, and so we had something in both the House and the Senate to kind of tackle this issue and arm the DOJ with the kind of ammunition they need from Congress to actually confront this problem.
Speaker 2:That's something that we'll be carrying into, among many other things, into 2025. Additionally, the Delta 8 fight is going to be a really important one. Some people may know the farm bill got extended last Congress, just several weeks ago, into 2025. So they have kind of two dates. Part of it expires in September, part of it expires at the very end of this year. But I think we're going to have a lot of time to really work on this and fingers crossed like I'll say this knocking on wood, because I don't want to make a prediction and then be just totally wrong, so don't hold me to it completely but I have a gut feeling and just my head and my heart says that I think we're going to get this done this year. And when you say get this done, you mean we're going to close the Delta A. Yes, we're going to close the Delta A. Stop using toxicants from being sold.
Speaker 1:Stop using toxicants, yeah, and that's especially important because DoorDash, one of the top app delivery companies, just announced they're going to get involved in delivering hemp-derived THC and CBD products to places where they allow these products to be sold and consumed. So there are big players now that are starting to wade into this federal gray area that are taking on that risk, and Congress is very close to closing the loophole. We're going to make sure they do so. We are going to be warning these companies to stay completely hands-off of these products.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's kind of another thing that we're continuously working on. I think another thing that comes to mind is just like we need to take advantage of the landscape that we have to raise awareness among members of Congress about these issues and really have kind of a launch pad to actually open up discussions, whether it's about the health impacts of discussions, whether it's about the health impacts of marijuana, whether it's about the influence of China and the CCP in kind of taking advantage of state legalization to set up these illicit marijuana grow farms, you know, whether it's marijuana impaired driving. To have hearings right, we've already been in discussions with certain congressional committees in the House and the Senate about having hearings, and people are really open and optimistic about scheduling things to discuss these kind of relevant issues, and so I'm really encouraged by that. Two other just quick, brief things to discuss Another little idea that we're working on is a new initiative you know there's some really terrible ads actually out of sponsored by department of transportation that is absolutely abysmal.
Speaker 1:Tell people what they are.
Speaker 2:Tell people what they are so basically these are ads from NHSTA, which is like highway safety so yeah, highway safety association and they're basically taxpayer funded, taxpayer funded. Encouraging people to use marijuana, saying you know, don't blaze your own path, just don't drive high. So basically like use all the marijuana you want, but just try not to do it while you're driving. Encouraging people as a way of preventing stone driving, getting delivery, ordering illegal drug deliveries using these illicit services. That should not be advocated by the federal government. So that's just abysmal. And so trying to do something that's already been raised to the inspector general of Department of Transportation we got that in a hearing raised by Representative Ben Klein from Virginia, who was great on that issue and looking forward to working with him. Who's an appropriator more this year on that? Um. And finally I think you know, luke, I don't know what you want to share discuss um with rescheduling. I think you know that's on a lot of people's minds.
Speaker 1:Um, but going, going through that process uh where that pans out and kind of, yeah, well, I mean, the industry is really kind of basically just implement. You know, they just pulled off one of the biggest self-owns in the history of self-owns. I mean, you, you have, uh, village farms, I think is what they're called, and it's a marijuana industry. You know company, and they have filed an interlocutory appeal excuse me, interlocutory motion that basically has stopped the entire rescheduling process, caused the administrative law judge to cancel all. We had weeks of proceedings scheduled. We had gone through all the scheduling, all the testimony, everything was set for all of the parties that were going to participate in these historic hearings on the rescheduling of marijuana, and their motion has stopped everything completely dead in its tracks. It's been canceled, it's been canceled and it's indefinitely canceled. So we don't know when these will be picked back up. The DA administrator is going to, I guess, consider their motion is my understanding and really we have no idea what's going to happen from here, but it's just astonishing that they would do this Now.
Speaker 1:Everything is in limbo as a new administration is taking office and we don't know what the Trump administration has planned. But with something like this, it's kind of wide open to say well, you know this has been kind of a mess. You know, hhs completely invented new protocols and procedures that have no basis in law, no precedent. There was a complete bungling of the process from a political perspective when it was supposed to be scientific. There's a lot of reasons to just call these hearings off, and so they provided a really great additional reason to do that. So I guess, hats off to the industry for this. I mean, unless there's something we're really missing on the strategy here, jordan, I don't know, maybe you can clue me in, but we're feeling happy about that and we'll see, kind of, what the future holds in terms of this process. I mean, we'll be learning as the public learns.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, nothing, nothing really to contribute, definitely yeah, I will say you yeah, yeah, nothing really to contribute, definitely honest. I mean, obviously rescheduling. People say, oh, you know why would he implement, president Biden, implement rescheduling? But you know, as we've talked about a lot on this podcast, if marijuana is rescheduled to three, it remains completely illegal. The entire marijuana industry is completely out of compliance. So you know we're talking about an administration that stuck to its guns on not legalizing marijuana. We're talking about a Congress that we were told, you know, with the Senate majority leader taking the historic stand on saying, you know, safe banking act, marijuana banking legalization is going to be a top priority.
Speaker 1:We were told that this was a done deal, and none of that happened. So you know we had a very strikingly successful session last session, and so it just shows you it doesn't matter who's in power. There's common sense on both sides that can help win the day, yeah.
Speaker 2:And one thing to add that I kind of forgot in the federal overview, luke, that I think is important to mention is just like what the new political kind of dynamic looks like for us, actual like the kind of pieces on the chessboard. So you know, obviously you know things we don't know about the executive branch exactly what's going to happen. Look, pam Bondi, who's going through her confirmation hearings right now, has been really great on this issue in the past, so that's kind of like a check.
Speaker 1:We've got a great picture that says don't legalize pot from her efforts to stop medical marijuana, so we're very happy about that we're very happy about that.
Speaker 2:So then the House and the Senate, right. So taking the House, you know Mike Johnson was elected speaker again. Mike Johnson is firmly against this. Steve Scalise remains the number two member of the House firmly against this In really powerful committees. Take the Rules Committee, which is kind of like able to stop almost anything. It's kind of the gateway, like the gatekeeper from House committees and bills that are passed to the House floor and what's voted on. Representative Virginia Fox was just elected, or just placed, as the chairwoman of the Rules Committee. She has an A-plus voting record by our standard, and Thomas Massey and Guy Reschenthaler, who were two of the most pro-marijuana members of that committee, have been taken off that committee. So that's really great for us.
Speaker 2:And then hopping kind of over to the Senate. You know, if you look at, the Senate kind of is broken up, I think, into really some factions. And in the Senate majority's leaders race you had three main candidates. You had John Thune who ended up winning, you had John Corden who got second place and you had Rick Scott who kind of was third. And if you look at all three of those candidates leading their factions, they all split up a share of the votes.
Speaker 2:John Thune, who won, is firmly against marijuana. He signed a letter that we helped write against rescheduling, spoken to him in person about this issue. He believes in our fight. John Cornyn is one of the more active members on the marijuana issue, very knowledgeable about it and really strongly against everything. And Rick Scott even though he got last place in the race he still kind of represents a voice for a faction of these Republicans. And Rick Scott is firmly against all of this as well. He lost his brother to drug problems and so he kind of finds his opposition based in personal family experience from really the heart. So I think that's a really encouraging sign for us as well, and so I think the legalizers are going to have a really tough playing field in the new Congress and I think it's going to be great for us.
Speaker 1:It's fantastic Well, lots to look forward to. Obviously, it's not all sunshine and roses. There's challenges along the way. Eventually, this rescheduling process will sort itself out and we'll have to have a conclusion to these hearings. We'll have to have some sort of rule or something promulgated from that, so we're definitely going to be needing your help with that. Also, the industry was very successful in getting a number of Republicans, particularly in the Senate, on board with Safe Banking Act.
Speaker 1:President Trump, on the campaign trail, made some kind of vague remarks about potentially supporting the Safe Banking Act or something of that nature. Whether that exists now under his administration we don't know. We'll have to see. But there are definitely challenges along the way and we will be again tracking and working on that along with all of you, and so many of our listeners are advocates who are working very hard at the state and local level as well as at the federal level. We thank you for that and we will keep you posted on that. Jordan, thank you for joining me on the podcast today. To all of you who listen, any new listeners, anyone who hasn't done this yet please leave us a five-star rating and review. We really appreciate that, and have a absolutely wonderful rest of your week.