The Drug Report
The Drug Report
Breaking the Silence: How PAL Gives Hope to Parents of Addicted Loved Ones
What happens when a veteran police commander discovers both his sons are addicted to heroin? Kim Humphrey, Executive Director of Parents of Addicted Loved Ones (PAL), takes us on a deeply personal journey through the darkest valleys of family addiction and into the light of recovery and hope.
Despite three decades in law enforcement, Kim never saw addiction coming to his own home. When a concerned parent called to warn that his teenage son might overdose, Kim and his wife initially denied the possibility. "You called the wrong house," his wife insisted. This moment began a decade-long nightmare of treatments, relapses, homelessness, and criminal charges that nearly destroyed their family.
Through raw, honest storytelling, Kim reveals how addiction shatters the foundations of family life and how the stigma surrounding substance use disorders often leaves parents isolated and blamed. "We started thinking we must be awful parents," he shares, highlighting how society misunderstands addiction as purely a moral failing rather than a complex brain disorder.
The conversation explores how PAL's unique approach combines education with peer support, helping parents distinguish between healthy support and unhealthy enabling. Kim explains the organization's remarkable growth from a local Phoenix support group to a national network operating in all 50 states and nine countries, serving families dealing with everything from marijuana and alcohol to fentanyl and other synthetic drugs.
Perhaps most powerfully, Kim offers genuine hope. His sons, once at death's door, have maintained sobriety for over a decade. One now works full-time helping others overcome addiction, and Kim proudly anticipates his younger son's upcoming wedding. "I never thought they would even survive," he reflects. "Not everybody's story ends that way, but lots of them do. There is hope and there is a way out."
If you're struggling with a loved one's addiction or know someone who is, visit palgrouporg to find support meetings, resources, and a community that understands the journey ahead.
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Yes or no? Do you believe nicotine is not addictive?
Speaker 2:I believe nicotine is not addictive. Yes, Congressman, cigarettes and nicotine clearly do not meet the classic definitions of addiction. I don't believe that nicotine for our products are addictive.
Speaker 1:I believe nicotine is not addictive. I believe that nicotine is not addictive. Hello everyone, this is your host of the TDR podcast, the Drug Report. Thank you for joining us. My name is Luke Niferadis.
Speaker 1:As always, and today we've got a really exciting guest that we have on the show that I'm looking forward to introducing here in a second, but before I do so, I just want to remind you that we are very thankful to our two co-sponsoring organizations, that is, SAM, smart Approaches to Marijuana, which you can find at learnaboutsamorg, in addition to FDPS Foundation for Drug Policy Solutions, which you can find at gooddrugpolicyorg. They make this podcast possible, in addition to our brand new and redesigned website page, which you can go to thedrugreportorg and check out all the original content that we are now publishing. I'm really excited about that information, and so if you're interested in sponsoring it or consuming it, or just signing up for our newsletter, you can go to the website and check that out as well. So, without further ado, I'm really excited to introduce our guest today, kim Humphrey. He is the executive director of PAL, that's, parents of Addicted Loved Ones, a national organization that's doing just fantastic work, and I'll let him get into that. But, kim, welcome to the show. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great, hey. Thanks so much for having me, you bet.
Speaker 1:And so just to give a little bit of a bio for Kim, kim is a retired commander with more than 30 years of service in the Phoenix Police Department, so thank you for your service, kim. And during that time, you rose through the ranks doing incredible work. But unfortunately, while on the force, you discovered that both of your sons were addicted to heroin, and for more than a decade, the family endured treatments, rescues, relapses, but thank God, they found Powell's support, which he credits with saving his marriage and his children's lives and again, this is parents of addicted loved ones. So, after that really amazing experience, which I want to hear more about, kim, he became the executive director the first full-time executive director in March 2018. And under his leadership, he took them from a Phoenix area organization to having in-person groups in 38 different states and virtual meetings in all 50 states plus nine countries. So check them out. That's palgrouporg. P-a-l grouporg is their website. So, kim, thank you again for joining. Maybe you can just tell us a little bit about your story and then about what PAL is doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I appreciate that and, as you mentioned, you know, my wife and I we actually just celebrated 40 or are celebrating 43 years of marriage this year. Congratulations.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. And you know, I would go back in time and tell you that I never, never, would have thought we'd go down this road, be on this journey with our sons. My wife stayed home with our kids just to have that influence, and that was the choice that she made. We really thought that life was pretty great, and it was. And then, when our older son was about 15 and we get a phone call from a concerned parent and my wife answers the phone and this parent says hey, you know, my daughter goes to school with your son and her and her friends are very concerned about your son and I don't know how to share this with you, but they're afraid that he might overdose. Now you have to understand.
Speaker 2:I was standing there, my wife. Literally, her response was you called the wrong house, you got the wrong people. We don't have any problems with our son. Our son doesn't have a drug problem and so I don't know how he could possibly be on the verge of overdosing. Well, she insisted that her information was coming directly from his friends and you know she hangs up. We call our son into the room, ask him. You know what's going on. Of course, he immediately is like I don't know what you're talking about and at least at that point you know a little bit of that.
Speaker 2:That police training kind of kicked in and I said, hey, I think we need to do a drug test. And he said what? You don't trust me? Well, that was kind of the telltale sign and, needless to say, you know, a quick trip over to the drugstore and a drug test and it showed that he was positive for opioids. So we went from nothing, knowing nothing, seeing nothing, and here I am, I'm in law enforcement, I know very well what this looks like and I didn't see it in my own family, and that's what can happen. Is that, you know, we, as parents, we kind of have blinders and our kids can be involved in things and we just want to believe the best and we just don't believe that they could go down this road. And so, needless to say, yes, that's how, that's how we got involved.
Speaker 2:Uh, unfortunately, a few years later, his younger brother went down the same path. Uh, I will tell you that, our, our, our marriage, when we sat and talked about you know what, what did we do and how did this happen? And we started thinking well, we're, we must be awful parents and and that was that was all we could think of, because you know what we talked to people and we would share it with some friends and they would say things like, well, what do you think you did wrong? And I'm thinking, well, I don't know everything. I mean, I thought we were doing the things we should be doing and all of that.
Speaker 2:And I think the reality was that stigma and the fact that people don't understand the power of these drugs and they'll say things like that and they honestly believe that you know, it's just this. Oh, I just made a bad choice and that's the end of it. And it's like, well, there could have been a bad choice somewhere in there, but sometimes it's not a bad choice. Sometimes doctors prescribe these medicines and then you end up with these issues. Choice Sometimes doctors prescribe these medicines and then you end up with these issues.
Speaker 2:So the reality is is that it was. It was a journey that ended up going for many years a decade, as you mentioned and uh, and it was awful, it didn't get better, it got worse. And so, yeah, you know, when you say you're being introduced as the executive director of parents of addicted loved ones, it sort of gives away a little bit about what you've been through, and I will tell you, it's not something we planned on and it certainly is not something we hope that other people have to go through. But we're also thankful that we had people that surrounded us and helped us through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, what a harrowing story, and I'm just thankful it has such a positive ending, that you were able to find support in PAL and obviously through your support systems. And not only is your marriage saved. I think you said you're celebrating 40 plus years of marriage, so congratulations again on that, and that's an incredible achievement in and of itself. You have both your children, which, across this country, so many parents can't say that that they get to keep both their children alive when they go through a period of substance abuse like that. So that's really wonderful that that happened.
Speaker 1:Maybe you could talk a little bit about. You know and it's interesting also, by the way, what you talked about as a parent kind of wanting to. You know, am I just a bad parent? You know, and I think that's very natural for parents to say that. And I think also, you see, you know some of the industries that are involved in creating these problems, like the opioid industry, for example, and obviously we see with marijuana as well, where the industry will blame the parents for what the kids, you know, their children have found themselves in. And you know, it's just, it's very true, I think, and important for parents to know that this is something that you know. Each child yeah, it's your child, but they make their own decisions at the end of the day too. So you know you don't have complete control over what they're going to do right, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:And it's tough because you're in a culture today where you know, particularly when you talk about marijuana and a lot of the legalization efforts and all of that, and I'll never forget my younger son. He had a love affair with marijuana and so, yes, he ended up on opioids and heroin and meth and other drugs too. But even when he was trying to, you know, face the fact that he had, you know, criminal stuff happening and he had all these health issues happening and he, he had finally come to a conclusion that you know he was going to, he was going to get away from those quote unquote hard drugs and and uh, but he wasn't going to give up marijuana, he was just going to you know what, I'm going to be fine, I'm going to be able to do that and probably drink too. And it's and it's interesting how, as he, as he went through treatment and as he eventually started to realize, you know, what was going on in his life, that that those things were were just as a big of an issue to him as the as the others.
Speaker 2:And he told me a story one time. He said he was, you know, trying to, of course, manipulate and and, and I hate to say it but, like you know, kind of toss it back at us because, because we were setting some boundaries, like you know, if you're, if you're using these substances, you know you're an adult and and well, frankly, they would steal from us and other things. I'm like you can't live in our home, you know. I mean, we're here for you, we want to help you, but that's a problem. And he told me one day. He says, you know, well, you're not like my friends. You know, I showed up at my friend and he named his friend who.
Speaker 2:I know these people, his dad greeted me at the door, smoking marijuana. He says he goes. They think it's fine. So what's wrong with you? Why? Why do you have such a problem with this? And that's tough to you know, when you start dealing with the fact that you know he's going over to friends, they're letting him in their family, is is engaged in this kind of activity, and then you're trying to say, well, hang on a second, you know, and it's, you're just in a, you're in a war with the culture, with their friends, their peers, and a lot of misinformation, and that just makes it that much harder.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Now I want to come back to this misinformation marijuana's kind of role to play here.
Speaker 2:But before we get to that, maybe just real quick you can give folks a synopsis of what PAL does and what services they're offering throughout the country. Yeah, so PAL started when a substance abuse counselor at a treatment center noticed a lot more younger people coming in to treatment many years ago and he started to also realize that their parents, their family, were involved. But the problem was is, frankly, he said, you know what they're not helping. They're actually coming in and they're trying to do these things to help their children, but in the long run they're actually sometimes contributing to it and they just don't know, they don't understand, they're not educated and their normal parenting skills are telling them to do one thing and unfortunately, that's not helping. And so you know, as a parent, you want to believe your children, you want to believe everything they say, and so you know when they say things like you know, well, I just need $50 because you want me to get a job, well, I need to get some clothes, you know. So I'm going to use the money to get some clothes. And you're just thinking well, of course that's what they'll do, and anybody from the outside listening is going. Well, of course, they won't. If they're using drugs, they're going to use that to buy drugs. But parents put these blinders on and they just want so badly to believe it and they're just afraid of setting boundaries and they're afraid of they don't want to lose that relationship. And so he saw that and he said you know, I need to put something together that will help educate parents to the issue. So it's not just and I say not just meaning I don't want to say anything negative about anything, that's just support. But it's not just support. Our meetings are in education and support. So we have a curriculum around addiction and recovery. So every week when people come to these weekly meetings, they can expect to go through this educational topic, that's on all kinds of aspects of addiction and recovery, learn about it, you know, hopefully understand the whole issue better and then, second, have an opportunity to be around peers that are going through it and then they can share their story. And in this case we encourage crosstalk, so we encourage people.
Speaker 2:If you want a suggestion, you know I'm in the meeting. What's going on? Well, you know my son, my daughter. They called this is what they asked me. They want me to do this and you can say hey, does that? Has anybody else been down this? Has anybody else done that before down this road. You know, and, and they say sure, and they can share their stories if you want. Now, if you don't want to, you don't have to.
Speaker 2:But the reality is is that when you're, when you're not, around people that don't understand this, then you get those comments, like I said at the beginning, like what do you think you did wrong? And it's like, well, you know that's one that's not helpful because I don't even know. And the reality is I don't really think what we were doing was wrong. I think we were doing the best we could with the information we had, but the reality is somebody that's not dealing with this, they don't understand it and they really honestly think it's just a moral issue, like it's just a right and wrong. You can trust me on this.
Speaker 2:My kids grew up knowing 100% the difference between right and wrong. They knew drugs were bad. They knew that drugs lead to bad things. But that's not the point, because today's drugs are very different than the drugs in the past and you know, sometimes it's just that one time, sometimes it's. You know, they get engaged in this stuff and they can't get out, and so part of it is is understanding that brain chemistry and all these other things.
Speaker 2:So, again, that educational, that support piece. And that's why what people will find when they come to a PAL meeting, they will find the opportunity to to be around others that are going through this as well as to learn, and then you know what they can choose, you know what they want to do. They can, they're going to be supported regardless, but they can look at this and go. You know what I could see. You know what I probably shouldn't do this. I probably should set a boundary, but that's up to them and the key is is to do this in a loving way, in a way that you maintain that relationship so that you can have some influence over them for their recovery it's really cool.
Speaker 1:thank you for the great work that you're doing, uh, and providing this resource to parents. It's really outstanding. Tell me about how. So, coming back to what we were talking about with marijuana, so you know, obviously we've seen marijuana legalization become a big issue and there's a you know a number of states that have legalized it. Thankfully, most states have not legalized it. I think some people forget that, but you know there's a perception out there that's all over the place and there's certainly been normalization through the media, et cetera. So how is that impacting the work that Powell is doing?
Speaker 2:Well, I can tell you from a couple of perspectives. One, you know, having been involved in this issue for you know going on more than two decades now and my law enforcement career as well as you know dealing with this from a family perspective, you know I've seen the transition from the marijuana of old to the marijuana of today. And you know that marijuana of today, where I'm having a parent describe to me, you know, over the phone, you know, the symptoms that their son or daughter is going through, you know over the phone, you know the symptoms that their son or daughter is going through and they're saying things like, well, they've lost a lot of weight, they don't sleep, they're very hyper. And I'm thinking, well, typical methamphetamine, something like that, and I'm thinking, yeah, that sounds like what that is. And they, they, we talk more and eventually they, they take their, their son or daughter in, they get a drug test THC, nothing else and you go.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't understand. That's not, that's not my stereotypical understanding of what somebody has when it comes to this. Well, that's because there is no stereotypical when it comes to somebody that's taking this high potency THC, these, these, these things that are way, way, way more potent than they were in the past and they're having all kinds of adverse effects, you know, on people and they're not, they're just can't look and go. Oh, that's what this is now. And so part of it is is there's a huge misunderstanding that it's just this. Oh, it's just like in the past and people would just laugh and what's on TV and lay around and it's just for fun. It's not necessarily just for fun. I know numerous people have ended up in the hospital over this and they've been in very serious situations where they didn't know they were going to survive.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, we have lots of individuals coming through our meetings where their loved ones are getting arrested, and they're getting arrested for everything from, you know, driving under the influence, where this is the culprit. And then, of course, we're just seeing more and more that it's just a part of this all the other drugs that they're engaged in, and so over time, we've just seen more and more individuals. So that's anecdotal, but I will say that, having done this meeting for 13 plus years as a volunteer as well as in my role, you know we've had thousands of people come through this meeting and and we're just seeing more and more of this issue and and I think the hard part is is when a parent comes in, like we have.
Speaker 2:We have one recently and this mom comes in and she's explaining all this and she's she's struggling with, you know, dealing with her son and she's, you know, wanting this help and all this other stuff, and and then after a little while we get to know her and she keeps coming back and then eventually she says, well, part of the issue is, is my husband does this too? He, he smokes marijuana every day and she goes and it's really hard for me because my son sees that and my son is like, well, my dad's doing it, and so you know, she's sitting there kind of on an island and now she's actually dealing with both her son and her husband. So, yeah, it's just been a tremendous change over the years. And, and of course, the other, the other drugs are still prevalent and there's all the new drugs on the market now and stronger than coming out and all this other stuff. But it's just, it's just a significant issue out there and it's hard, it's hard to, it's hard to figure out how to travel through this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think a lot of people think of you know you mentioned kind of hard and soft drugs. I you know, obviously they think of marijuana as a soft drug, no big deal. And so I think it's important and I appreciate you sharing some of these anecdotes because I think it's important for people to understand that in the recovery community you have people coming into the recovery community who are recovering, obviously, from marijuana addiction. You have parents of addicted loved ones who they're addicted loved ones that started with marijuana for them, or marijuana is the problem for them, and so I just think it's it's vital that the public understands the harms that this drug also has, uh on society. But you do you, you rightly note that.
Speaker 1:You know we have other crises now as well, and obviously fentanyl is, uh what everyone is thinking about at this point, and the synthetic drug crisis more globally, because there was a recent write-up just the other day in the Wall Street Journal on nitazine as well nitazine and so obviously the nefarious actors and cartels are coming up with new and more potent concoctions, it seems like every month. What was this influencing Powell's work? How is this influencing your populations that you're serving?
Speaker 2:Well, the first and foremost influence is the fact that, you know, we have parents come to meetings and they start asking questions, and they come in and they'll share something that we've never heard, and and you're thinking, well, I've heard of all of this and and, and I'm out there all the time and they say, well, they were just hospitalized, my son, my daughter, and they, they eventually figured out that they have this drug called ISO, you know, and we're like, well, I don't even know what ISO is, as what you just mentioned. You just you just explained what it is, but that's actually been popping up for quite a while, but it hadn't really taken hold. And then we hear about another one and another one, and so when these things start to happen, first, first of all, we realized that I mean, this is an age old issue. I mean this this is not for lack of any other way of saying. This is a new that these individuals come up with these different things and try different ways to, to to provide these, these different drugs out there.
Speaker 2:You know I've been in law. You know I was in law enforcement 32 years and I've been retired for, you know, 11. So for the last 43 years that I was involved in it, I saw, you know, those things change over the years consistently, and so one of the biggest issues is is, when these much more potent drugs came on there, there was just this, this, uh, this problem with well, frankly, just to say it, I mean, sometimes they, their son or daughter, took it once and that was it and they lost them, and so there was no more of this. Oh, I'm just going to go out and experiment, you know, for a little while. And then the biggest problem that I've seen is they say, well, it's not a problem, because my son or my daughter, all they do is again all they do is do this, this, and then guess what one?
Speaker 2:it's laced with one of these other drugs and then they lose a life. It's, it's tainted, it's adulterated, and especially, you know, in vaping, you know, and they're mixing these things and putting them in there and, and I always think it's interesting, people say, say, why would somebody do that? Well, a lot of times they don't know, but then again, sometimes they do know. But even you know these drug dealers, you know they're looking for ways to keep these people engaged. And so sometimes you know, I'm sure, that they make conscious decisions to do this, just to to, to try, and, you know, keep people engaged with them. And so, yeah, it's been sad, it's been really sad to see this. And, and especially for people that come in and think, well, it was no big deal years ago. I just, you know, I I smoked a little, uh, you know, marijuana here and there. It was no big deal. It's like you can't do that anymore. You have to, you have to realize that, that you don't know what you're getting your hands on, and and so, yeah, it's, it is interesting and it's tough because there's just this.
Speaker 2:Well, again back to this misinformation, there's just this idea that you know all they're just experimenting. They're just, you know, they're just going to try what they're going to try and it's like well, I hope not. I hope for your sake that that's not true. I hope that you can instill in them, you know some, some decision-making skills where, as you said, when they become adults, you're not going to control it. But I will tell you that if you've instilled those decision-making skills in them and they understand consequences, then maybe, when they're faced with this, their mind will say, oh yeah, that might be a really bad idea, you know, and maybe they won't do it.
Speaker 1:I think that's a key role for parents, absolutely, and a really good place. As we're kind of rounding up a few minutes left in our time, so maybe any last message you would convey to parents right now who maybe they have addicted loved ones. What would your message be to them as we close this out?
Speaker 2:Well, I think the key is realizing that pretty much everybody knows somebody with this issue, whether you recognize it or not. So you're dealing with it, it's in your family, it's with your friends, somebody you know is dealing with this issue and until we get rid of this stigma and people are willing to talk about it more, it's tough. We had a person come to our meeting recently and this gentleman showed up. We hadn't seen him before he sat down. We got around to him sharing and he said listen us, because he keeps lying to us, because he's not getting any help and we can't have him around because he's just not getting any help. And he says and she threw me out, he goes and I've been driving around all day trying to figure out what I'm doing. She says she says I'm not willing to do that. And he says so I came here because I don't know what to do. He goes my marriage, my family, my son and all of this. And so he shared all of this and as we talked to him and encouraged him and tried to help him understand why they would react this way, why they're saying this, why his wife is like that and how important it is that they try and come at this together, but that's not really my point. My point is that his wife is 82 and she was 80 and their son is in his 60s and they are still dealing with this, and that's the kind of thing. We get people in there that have adolescence. We get people in there that are in their eighties and it's still devastating their families, and so if someone has this going on and you know somebody, please refer them so they can find a meeting and they can get that support and then, hopefully, the education as well, so that they can make good, healthy decisions.
Speaker 2:We don't like to use the words right and wrong. We like to use the words healthy and unhealthy. And there's healthy ways to respond to your loved ones, there's healthy ways to support them, there's healthy ways to get that opportunity to influence them to head in the right direction. But there's also unhealthy things that you can do, and sadly, you can end up in a place where you feel alone, you feel there is no hope and that you have no concept or clue about how to get there, and so I will share with you this that you know we were at that point with our sons between the criminal activity, the overdoses, where we didn't know they would ever survive, to the fact that they were homeless, the fact that we didn't know where they were, the fact that we couldn't find them for months at a time.
Speaker 2:You know, I thought they were lost, I thought it was done, and the reality is is that we started to change how we responded to them. We were encouraging, we were their cheerleaders, but we were not going to enable, we were going to do what we could to help them to see and hopefully find you know that path and take that journey, and you know what. And take that journey and you know what, one day, after a very serious illness and after some serious criminal activity, you know, our older son was the first one and he he essentially was in a hospital bed when he made a decision and says I can't do this anymore. And he made a personal decision that he was going to check himself into a treatment program, which he did, which ended up putting him into a program for over a year, during which time he tracked down his little brother, was able to convince him to go into a treatment program. He was really unwell too. He was six foot three, weighed 137 pounds when he went into treatment and he eventually started down that road, and today I will tell you that they're celebrating around 11 or 12 years of sobriety.
Speaker 2:They've been in recovery, they volunteer, they work in this field to some extent. The older one, that's what he does full-time. The younger one does it sometimes and part time. But here's the thing I now have a family that's back. I have two beautiful grandchildren, my younger son's getting married in November, and I never thought they would even survive, and so I know. Not everybody's story ends that way, but I can just tell you that some do, lots of them do, and there is hope and there is a way out, and sometimes you just need that support and help to get you from where you are to where hopefully you won't be Very powerful.
Speaker 1:Kim, thank you for sharing your family story. Thank you for the great work that you're doing personally as well as professionally at PAL. So how can people connect with PAL? Where can they find you all? So?
Speaker 2:again, our website is palgrouporg and if you just go on that website, there's lots of resources. We have a YouTube channel. We have a newsletter you can sign up for. Every month You'll get information. We are connected with Sam and other organizations to provide information, and PAN, which you're familiar with, the Parent Action Network. We've had them at our events and so we want to work together to educate the community to hopefully, you know, provide, you know the families that need our services, but also others that are just looking for information and ways to support and ways to get involved. So if you go to our website, powergrouporg and you can always email us at info at powergrouporg- so thank you, cam.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much for being on the show To our listeners. Thank you for listening. Please leave us a five-star review if you have the time and write us a review is always wonderful and check out palgrouporg. Thank you, kim, for everything. Thank you.