Carlos Speaks Podcast
Looking for a podcast that will fill you with motivation, encouragement, and self-love? Those are the things that I hope to convey here with the Carlos Speaks Podcast. It is my hope that this podcast was creates an open think space to express, communicate and learn. Plug in to hear empowering stories and valuable insights that will hopefully ignite your passion for personal growth and positivity.
Carlos Speaks Podcast
Her Story, Her Strength and Her Self Discovery
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What happens when you uncover the truth about your past and use it to fuel your journey toward healing and self-discovery? Join us as we embark on a heartfelt exploration with my mother, Jennifer, who bravely shares her life story, starting with her adoption at the age of 10. Throughout this episode, we navigate the intricate tapestry of family dynamics, personal history, and the determination that comes with the pursuit of independence. Jennifer's experiences, ranging from teenage motherhood and custody battles to finding love where it was least expected, offer a poignant look at resilience and the enduring power of family ties.
Jennifer opens up about the profound challenges she faced, from discovering an unexpected pregnancy during high school to the emotional turbulence of teenage motherhood in a strict community. Her journey is marked by significant sacrifices, including a marriage initially driven by survival rather than love, and the subsequent evolution of that relationship into a source of stability and fulfillment. Each chapter of her life reflects a story of incredible strength, as she navigates through societal pressures, personal losses, and the quest for personal growth and acceptance. Her candid reflections provide valuable insights into the complex landscape of familial relationships.
This episode is a testament to the transformative power of love, open dialogue, and the quest for truth. Jennifer's narrative serves as a powerful reminder of the healing that comes from vulnerability and the importance of reconciling with one's past. As we share this story, we hope to inspire you to reflect on your own family dynamics and the path toward reconciliation and empowerment. Join us as we kick off a season rich with encompassing stories and meaningful connections, setting the stage for more heartfelt discussions and life lessons in the episodes to come.
Family Dynamics and Personal History
Speaker 1All right. So we're back with season two, episode one of the Carlos Speaks podcast. This season, I think we are in for some very interesting conversations, one with no other than my A1, j1, my ace, boom coon, my little friend, now my mama. Say hey to the people, mama.
Speaker 3Hey, how are you, how are y'all?
Speaker 1Yeah, it's kind of different speaking to like yourself, right? Yeah? Okay, but we can yeah, okay, like I said, season one really focused on my personal experiences. I want season two to be more encompassing, with people that I'm connected to, and I thought that there would not be a better way to start season two with none other than a conversation with my mama. So let's get right into it.
Speaker 3Yeah, let's do it okay, um.
Speaker 1So, as you all know, I don't follow a script. Um, I don't do the fancy introductions, the lights, the production. We turn the camera on, we turn these mics on and we just have a conversation. Okay, um, okay. So I think that the best place to start is, you know, at the beginning, tell us about you, tell us where did Jennifer start out at? Ooh, baby, I know, I know I'm kind of nervous where this conversation might go. But, baby, what you say, the truth, is the light, and the light is welcome here and we're here now.
Speaker 3Okay, so, jennifer, who am I? Um, I am now healed from a lot of things that have hurt me in life, so I can't say I can't speak on who I was. I can speak on who I am now because it's more relevant. Where I came from was a place of hurt, starting at the age of 10, being put up for adoption and not understanding why no one loves me. Why am I here? What have I done? And it was only what. 12 years ago, when I found out the real truth about being adopted. 12 years ago, when I found out the real truth about being adopted 12 years ago. Yeah.
Speaker 3It was about 12 years ago. Yeah, it was about 12 years when I found out the truth. Gotcha. Okay, but before finding the truth, I found myself always mad, always bitter, always.
Speaker 1And for context, how old are you now?
Speaker 3Oh, I'm 52.
Speaker 1So you were late 30s, early 40s when you found out you were adopted. No Right, much younger.
Speaker 3I knew when I was adopted that I was adopted, got it.
Speaker 1Because you were 10. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3So do you remember that? I remember all of it. I remember it like it was yesterday and even though, as much as I try to suppress it, that's something that I can't suppress and I feel like there's a reason why I can't suppress it. There's a lot of things that have happened to me that I have suppressed. I know I've suppressed, I remember them, but I suppress them and they don't come up. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1Yeah, it's like compartmentalizing. This is the area of things that I don't delve into.
Speaker 3Yeah, okay, so fast forwarding um the people I don't want to say the people the person. The person that raised me um, I want to say wasn't very the place where I grew up, say, wasn't very the place where I grew up in, wasn't?
Speaker 1It's so interesting to know the details and watch you try to articulate that in a way, because I never had to. I know you never had to articulate it in a way that could be received. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3So it's like the person that raised me. I was raised well. Okay. I never starved. I had the best of whatever the trends, the you know, and people spoke highly of the people that adopted me. Okay, so I wouldn't say a pillar, but they stood out. So being a part of something like that was exciting, okay, but what was happening on the backdrop of all that excitement?
Speaker 1behind the scenes behind the scenes.
Speaker 3Yeah, it's like there's a there's in order to partake from the image of the family.
Speaker 1Yeah, got it. Got it Okay. So what was life? Do you remember life before being adopted? Do you remember birth through 10 or does your memory start at 10 following the?
Speaker 3adoption. That's where my memory starts.
Speaker 1At 10? At 10. Gotcha.
Speaker 3I remember well. What I thought I remembered was my mother having my sister and I on a corner in a city saying I can't take care of both of you. But that's not what happened.
Speaker 1So do you think that a part of you created that memory to make this make sense?
Speaker 3Yes.
Speaker 1Because what that memory to make this make sense? Yes, okay, because what really happened? We'll get there. We'll get there.
Speaker 1So here we are, 10 years old, adopted uh in the south we can say that, um, in a very church oriented family. Yeah, it's so crazy trying to tell this without you know. Okay, all right. So two years old in this family, freshly adopted, trying to find your niche in this family because when you're adopted, the couple that adopted you already had children. So what was it like trying to fit into this family that was already established?
Speaker 3To be honest, it wasn't hard at all. To be honest, it was like a puzzle piece and I was the last piece of the puzzle and we because they're musically inclined. I'm musically inclined, but I think that and I don't know whether that was the only reason why I felt connected or whether that was the only reason why I felt connected, or that's how I felt connected to them, because I like to sing. I like to, you know, but they did too and it's like they play a note.
Speaker 3I fall on it. You know what I'm saying, so I don't know if it. I don't even remember being a preteen living in that house.
Speaker 1Got it. You went straight from 10 year old to senior in high school.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 3And I yeah, I don't know whether I suppress all of this. You had to, because I don't remember. I don't. I don't know whether I suppress all of this.
Speaker 1You had to.
Speaker 3Because I don't remember good times. I don't remember Christmases, I don't remember birthdays being celebrated. I don't remember any of it. Got it. And I don't know why.
Speaker 1Let's lean into that. Here we are, a baby from the city and we can say DC. We can say Southeast DC, born and raised Southeast DC until 10 years old, relocated to rural South Carolina. Christian-oriented family adopted you and it was very routine. You go to church three to four times a week. We go on a revival, we go on a Sunday school. We go on the first service, second service.
Speaker 3Yes, usher, meetings, choir, everything, everything On top of the Sunshine Choir. Okay, we got everything.
Speaker 1Everything On top of the Sunshine Choir.
Speaker 3Okay, do you remember the Sunshine Choir? I remember.
Speaker 1So what is the Sunshine Choir and how did it come to be and where did it go? Well, within context, ha ha, ha, child, you're going to get me canceled before I get signed.
Speaker 3Listen, I don't know. No, okay. I don't. There's a lot of things that happened after being adopted that I've never thought about again, like Sunshine Choir. What are you talking about? I don't remember. Honestly, I got you Honestly.
Speaker 1And I think that's very significant because so for context, the Sunshine Choir was a choir, a traveling choir, that was comprised of you and your adopted siblings, right.
Speaker 3That's what they called it.
Speaker 1I'm asking you I don't remember, you don't remember. And I think that's so crazy because I remember the Sunshine Choir.
Speaker 3So it was who.
Speaker 1It was y'all.
Speaker 3The adopted siblings.
Speaker 1Well, you was the only adopted one, but everybody else, you know, old boy played the drums.
Speaker 3Are you talking about the Sunbeam Choir? Sunbeam choir, sunbeam choir, oh my god there we go there we go.
Speaker 1I'm a terrible host. Sunbeam choir there we go so so was that a good time for you, because it's that was a great.
Speaker 3That was a great. So what's the?
Speaker 1Sunbeam Choir. How did it come to be and where did it go?
Speaker 3Well, when I came to be in South Carolina, adopted by you, know, their adopt me it was. The Sunbeam Choir had already been established. Really yeah. Okay, it was established. Established, really. Yeah, it was established. I would say. I added two because of being musically inclined, and that put you in a position where you lead the songs you lead the choir, stuff like that. But I think that when that you remember that church burned down, when that church burned down.
Speaker 1The first one yeah, yeah, okay, when that church burned down.
Speaker 3The Sunbeam Choir was gone. That was it. That was it. Hmm. Yeah, number one. The church. That church over there never had the Sunbeam Choir.
Speaker 1Really.
Speaker 3Never.
Speaker 1Never. So it went from Sunbeam straight into the youth choir, the mass choir, the adult choir. Yeah. And this was what 19.
Speaker 3You were born in 1990. So that was that was a long time before you were born.
Speaker 1Hmm, yeah, okay, but that was a good time for you.
Speaker 3That was a great time for me.
Speaker 1Across the childhood that you kind of chopped and screwed up. Yeah. Okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3That was a great time for me. I would. I enjoyed doing that. The only thing that I didn't like it was. The only thing that I didn't like was I was not um allowed to was going out skating. They were going to movies, they were going to school dances and I was restricted from all of that.
Speaker 1Why is that?
Speaker 3Because of the structure.
Speaker 1Because you was a PK.
Speaker 3Yeah, I was a PK.
Speaker 1And, for context, pk is preacher's child, preacher's kid, pastor's kid Pretty much a child that is pretty much raised in the structure of church, not necessarily just go to church on Sundays, and that was from 10 until 17. We taking a turn. The truth is the light and the light is welcome here. And just to segue a bit, I just want to say that this podcast exists because of you. You said, carlos, you're going to have a podcast. You said, carlos, you need to create a platform where people can just tell their truths with no obstacle, with no editing, no filtering. So, yeah, we're going to take some turns. You started this ride. We're going to go, okay, so from 10 to 17,. Your raise is a PK, very structured, strict environment. Okay, what was year 17 like for you?
Speaker 317-year-old Jennifer. 17-year-old Jennifer was free-spirited, didn't like the people that was attached to her.
Speaker 1Okay, lean into that. What do?
Speaker 3you mean the people that raised me. Okay, I, from years and years and years, knew that my blood didn't run through their veins. So, no, I can't act like you. No, I can't make the same decisions that you make. No, I don't see things the same way. So I felt really trapped and being a free spirit, being trapped is a dangerous thing.
Speaker 1Very much, yeah. So how did you deal with that? Because something happens right when you have those two opposing forces.
Speaker 3I was always being rebellious. It was always talking back. It was always, you know, doing going against the grain. Okay. It was all and I really didn't care.
Speaker 1So do you think that it came from a place of rebelliousness? Or were you just 17 like? And when I say that, do you, do you think you were just trying to be a teenager who thought they had it all figured out?
Speaker 3I was trying to be a teen, a free-spirited teenager, okay, and because I couldn't, I acted in rebellion.
Speaker 1As a result of feeling trapped.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1Okay, year 17.
Speaker 3I'm 17 and no, and no and no.
Speaker 1Okay, what else happened in year 17? 17-year-old Jennifer, free-spirited, flattered, free-spirited, trying to 17 year old Jennifer free spirited.
Speaker 3Free spirited, trying to you know what to come to think of it now, it wasn't. I wasn't trying to prove something. I was trying to do what I wanted to do. To do what I wanted to do, got do what. I wanted to do, got it, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, at this point, where I am, or you, hey, this is who I want to be and I'm going to do everything in my power to be her. Yeah, okay. And the first thing you wanted to do, yeah, was have me.
Speaker 3I'm going to show y'all. I'm going to show y'all Y'all ain't going to do me like this. I'm not going to be, because I feel like this If the restraints weren't so tight, yeah, it'd have been okay with me yeah but the skin is coming off my wrist, my wrist and it's cutting real tight. Yeah, so the only thing that I can do is bust loose. I'm already injured. What are you going to do?
Speaker 1I'm going to do it. I'm here now.
Speaker 3I'm here now.
Speaker 1Because if the worst you can do is restrain me I've already seen the worst you can do it's restraining me. I've already seen you, the worst you can do. So basically, my free spirit Is already paid for, okay.
Speaker 3And that's where we're at now.
Navigating Pregnancy, Family Struggles, and Independence
Speaker 1Okay, so now, so walk me through that. It is November, so this is actually February of your junior year. So at what point in 1990 did you realize you were pregnant?
Speaker 3I started going to school, I had English first period every morning. I started going to school and falling had English first period every morning. I started going to school and falling asleep in first period and at some point I didn't even care, I was going to sleep, I'm going to sleep.
Speaker 1I would the bell rang and I ate something. I'm going to sleep, I'm going to sleep and I going to sleep and I went to sleep.
Speaker 3I went to sleep Come to find out I was pregnant.
Speaker 1How'd you find?
Speaker 3out, so I went To the Navy place. Okay, you went to MAPS, I went to the Navy place.
Speaker 1Okay, you went to MEPS.
Speaker 3I went to MEPS.
Speaker 1And, for context, meps is the Military Entrance Processing Station. So this is where you go to process into the or any branch of the military, and for you, your poison of choice was the Navy. Yeah, I wanted to go of the military, and for you, your poison of choice was the Navy.
Speaker 3Yeah, I wanted to go to the Navy because I wanted to learn how to swim and I knew I would learn there. But unfortunately had my physical and ma'am started to inform you you can't join the Navy because you are pregnant not to look at the camera camera 5 you rolling.
Speaker 1This lady told my mama she was pregnant at the meth place so. I don't know if you remember, but what was that like for you in that moment.
Speaker 3In that moment.
Speaker 1Because here you are at Mips about to change your life.
Speaker 3Okay, so let's go back before Mips. Okay. I was running for my life. Mm-hmm. I wanted to get out of this house. Okay. I wanted to get away from these people, okay, so the first thing I thought about was the Navy, and I want to learn how to swim.
Speaker 1But this is your way out.
Speaker 3This is my way out.
Speaker 1This is your. The rebellious Jennifer don't know how to act. She just ooh. She just want to do what she want. She's so unruly. This is how you saved yourself from that. Yeah, the Navy. And what was it like to have that snatched away from you have that snatched away from you.
Speaker 3I'm not going to say I mean, in hindsight, I'm not going to say, you know, boo-hoo-hoo, it didn't happen like that for you. I'm just going to say that it was not in God's plan. That's what I would say.
Speaker 1No, I think that's a cute answer. I want to know what 17-year-old Jennifer thought.
Speaker 3I was pissed, I was mad because this is going to be my way out. I did not think of the consequences of having unprotected sex, because that was never talked about in the house that I was raised in.
Speaker 1Do you think that the outcome may have been different if those conversations had been had?
Speaker 3I think so.
Speaker 1Because I think a lot of times we children act out of frustration and ignorance when they don't get guidance.
Speaker 3Absolutely Because I never felt guided, I felt imprisoned. I didn never felt guided, I felt imprisoned. I didn't feel guided Ever. Gotcha. When I say ever, I mean ever. Never felt guided, always felt imprisoned.
Speaker 1So, from birth to 10, blackout to 17, you've been running for your life.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1Running for Anson. Yeah. Okay, so boom, we pregnant. The Navy is out of the window flooded. Did you want an abortion?
Speaker 3No. No. Not one time did I think of that. The person that raised me, that's another thing.
Speaker 1So was there a conversation that said we're going to have an abortion.
Speaker 3There was a conversation I had.
Speaker 1Okay, and you said no, no, absolutely not Absolutely. Why.
Speaker 3Absolutely not.
Speaker 1Because, mind you and I want to lean to this because this was your way out- yeah. Essentially, hypothetically, you could have had the abortion, came back to MIPS, had a waiver and you still gone.
Speaker 3I never even researched it, never even thought that way again Ever. Okay. Never thought about an abortion, even though it was talked about and it was suggested is what we'll say suggested. Is that safe to say? It's safe to say, but I never okay.
Speaker 1So boom, you gotta come back to school. You gotta come back to school. The Navy's gone away. You've committed to keep this beautiful man that's in your womb. So what happens then? Committed to keep this beautiful man that's in your womb, so what happens then? How do you? How, how would you describe your?
Speaker 3I did not graduate with my class. I didn't know that. I never did graduate with my class. I didn't know that Because I failed my English my senior English year. I failed my English my senior English year. I failed it because you asleep? Child Sleeping on them. People's desks.
Speaker 1Let me drink some of this tea In that school place what?
Speaker 3Yes, but what I will say is I went to adult ed I was seven months pregnant. I walked across the stage and I got my diploma.
Speaker 1Yes, you did, I got it. Camera five is rolling, baby pregnant. I got it Flat footed.
Speaker 3Yes, and that gown was on. Yes, it was. Come on, I did not know that.
Speaker 1What kept you going?
Speaker 3Because the easy answer for a lot of people is drop out that wasn't an option for me, and the person that raised me made sure I knew that that wasn't an option so you're going to do, you're going to work.
Speaker 4So you're going to do this with a big old stomach? Yeah.
Speaker 3And either you're doing that or you're going to work. Yeah. It don't even matter to me which one you choose, but you're going to choose one today.
Speaker 1Because when I leave my house, everybody leave my house. We're digging into that, we're going to double back that. There we gonna double back that there's a reason why we both know that. Okay, alright, so boom you walk. What happens after you graduate?
Speaker 3cause I don't know this part of your life okay, after I graduated, um I stayed for a bit more, um then I moved out when I got my own house in Wedgefield. Okay yeah. When I got my own house in Wedgefield, but then there came a time where I don't have the support of the family.
Speaker 1Was that prior to you giving birth, you were living in Wedgefield. That was after, okay, so you stayed in the house. Because you graduated in May, I was born in the following November. Yeah, okay, so November 1990, at the end of 90, you moved out of the house.
Speaker 3No. Okay. I didn't leave you there early. Okay. Maybe the middle of 91. Okay. Yeah. Okay. That's whenever I went.
Speaker 1So when you left, what happened?
Speaker 3When I left, I actually left with you. Okay, you were with me and we were fine, until it got to a place where I couldn't take care of you by myself. I didn't have enough for rent and bills and taking care of you Okay, enough for rent and bills and taking care of you Okay.
Speaker 1So the lady that harassed me for the whole nine months of my pregnancy. And, for context, who is this lady? This is the lady that Adopted me, the lady that raised you, the lady that adopted me, the lady that raised you, the lady that raised me, the whole time I was pregnant.
Speaker 3She mocked me and made me feel bad and yeah, but anyway, yeah didn't want me to have this baby. Um, but anyway, yeah, um didn't want me to have this baby after I had you and move out. Well, we stayed there for a little bit, then moved out. Um, I went to her for support and I was like um, I need you to help me. I'm trying to work, trying to pay bills, but I can't do it because I don't have any place for Carlos to go. She said oh, don't worry about it, I'll keep him for you. I said okay, well, I'll take care of whatever I got to take care of. Tell me what I owe you. Tell me what I need to do. I'll take care of whatever I got to take care of. Tell me what I owe you, tell me what I need to do.
Speaker 3And two weeks later, the sheriff came to my door and said ma'am, you have been served. She sued me. She took you from me and sued me for child support. Whew, the child that she didn't even want to be here, the child she wanted me to abort Only because I wasn't a yes child. I wasn't. No, I can't do that. You're not me, I'm not you, I can't do that. Her other kids would, but I wasn't, I wouldn't.
Speaker 1So do you think that this was a consequence for that?
Speaker 3Yeah, because I don't really think she wanted you. She just wanted to hurt me.
Speaker 1Okay, so this is where I can kind of intersect. Okay, right, because here I am, you know, my beautiful baby boy self, my beautiful brown eyes, baby, I was a beautiful baby, I was a beautiful little chocolate drop and you were. So I think this is a very pivotal moment, right, and I think it is a very pivotal moment Right, and I think it's very necessary. And I don't want to speak on my dad, right, because, you know, hopefully later in the season I hope to have him on an episode to give his perspective in all of it. Yeah, but for context, my daddy was younger than you.
Speaker 3Yeah.
The Truth About Custody Battles
Speaker 1Right. So my daddy was younger than you. So my daddy was younger than you, and this was mid-1991. So you were what? 19? I was 19. 19. And my dad was 18. So when it came to the litigation and the legal action pertaining to me and custody, is it safe to say that y'all didn't know what to do?
Speaker 3We didn't know what to do. We didn't know what to do. At this point, I'm trusting this lady that raised me at this point, at this point, your family, well your father's family, didn't even believe that you was his oh, okay, okay.
Speaker 1Okay, because that's your truth.
Speaker 3That's my truth, that's your experience. Yes, sir.
Speaker 1So I think it's only fair that you get to speak on that. Yeah, all right so here we are. Um, we gotta back up a little bit digging into that, though, because that happened before you moved out right yeah, okay. So we're going back in time from mid-1991 to early 91. Boom, you got this baby and you said this is this man's baby, and what?
Speaker 3happened. Nobody believed me, nobody, none of the majors.
Speaker 1Whoa.
Speaker 3Oh sorry.
Speaker 1No worry, I'll beep it out.
Speaker 3Please edit it.
Speaker 1Baby that Listen. Sometimes the truth just jump out of our bodies.
Speaker 3I'm sorry.
Speaker 1The truth is the life, but we gotta turn it down.
Speaker 3But I'm Okay, those who know know. Yes.
Speaker 1Did not believe that you were your father's son. So how we fix that?
Speaker 3So how we fix. That is the matriarch.
Speaker 1The matriarch Of the family, the head of the family. The head of the family, the head hosho.
Speaker 3Comes over.
Speaker 1To where you are.
Speaker 3To where I am, to the home where the lady that adopted me lived. Yes, and I lived there. Comes in the house, sits down, have a casual conversation and say let me hold that baby, pick that baby. Pick that baby up by the legs, the ankles, pick that baby up by the ankles. Look under, they take the pamper off. Look under, they look at the foot, the foot, the foot oh this a this one of us. The foots, the foots.
Speaker 1The foots, the foots, oh, this a.
Speaker 4Yeah, this one a us, this one a us, this one a our baby, this our baby right now, okay.
Speaker 1I'm so glad to know that. So I'm assuming you were in the room while this inspection or this evaluation is happening. Yes, what was it like for you to feel valid, To feel validated, For somebody to say she right this that boy and baby it was.
Speaker 3I felt I felt free in that moment Because that too was a felt like handcuffs.
Speaker 1A shackle.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1In addition to the other ones you had.
Speaker 3Yes, Because now you're pregnant and you might not even know who the daddy is.
Speaker 1Ooh.
Speaker 3But I do.
Speaker 1On top of being a teenage mom. Yeah, in a very strict Christian home. Yes, and for context, my daddy's family and your family were kind of like very significant families in the church. Yes, lord, have mercy In the same church.
Speaker 3The tea is hot In the same church.
Speaker 1Sitting on different sides of the table? Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 3So you felt free and one looking at her like this and the other one looking at her like this, so I felt free. I'm not lying. Right. Because I had felt. Ooh, ooh yeah.
Speaker 1You can't even put a word on that.
Speaker 3Yeah, I really can't because.
Speaker 1You're getting it from every angle.
Speaker 3Every. I cannot breathe, I can't relax. I can't because it was something all the time coming at me and I'm only 18 years old.
Speaker 1With a fresh baby.
Speaker 3With a brand new baby, I don't know nobody. Even so, I was. I felt a little bit of freedom. Yeah, in that moment I know who this baby belongs to.
Speaker 1I know who this baby papi is. I know it and belongs to. I know who this baby Pappy is.
Speaker 3I know it.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 3And he know it too.
Speaker 2Okay, was he there? But y'all won't listen to neither one of us, was he there, no he wasn't there.
Speaker 3Okay. But he knew Okay, but I bet he was at the house waiting on he was waiting on the report. He was waiting on a certain somebody to get home and say oh yeah, boy yeah nah that right there.
Speaker 1That's you, yeah, because you can't deny it. Nah, you can't. I look like that man, my churns look like that man. Okay. All right, so doubling back to mid-91, you get served and you realize that I'll watch this baby for you. Turns into I'm gonna raise this baby for you. And what was that like? Gut wrenching well, let me ask you this, and this is a very honest question Was any part of you relieved? Because you're 18.
Speaker 3Yes and no. Okay, talk to me. Yes and no. No, I wasn't relieved because you took my baby. Yes, I was relieved because I knew he'd be okay, because the only reason why I looked for support or help was because I wasn't okay. So if I wasn't okay, so if I wasn't okay, he wasn't going to be okay. So let me Help me Be okay. So I knew you were going to be okay. But the fact that At that age I understood custody and that Because I understood custody Because you were adopted.
Speaker 1You were adopted, so you know what it means I understand. This word means he's no longer mine.
Speaker 3But because I did not have the resources, I didn't have the support, I didn't know, I didn't have the nobody to help me understand this. Got it. So I just felt defeated. Yeah. Helpless and I was defeated. For a long, long time I was defeated. Time I was defeated, you know when I felt like I had won, probably 17 years later. When you turned 17.
The Sacrifice of Marriage for Survival
Speaker 1Nah, nah, we're going to dig into that. We're going to dig into that, alright, so let's shift gears a little bit. So this happens, okay, from 91 to 2008,. What were you doing?
Speaker 3Trying to make ends meet. Trying to make ends meet, trying to become a better me for you? Yeah, and that meant marrying a man that I didn't love, woo shit.
Speaker 1Hold on Say that again. I want to make sure that the people hear the vulnerability. You already did what?
Speaker 3Yeah, I married a man that I did not love for the sake of you.
Speaker 1Hmm, was that for the sake of you? Was that for the sake of you?
Speaker 3I would say it was. I used me as a sacrifice.
Speaker 1Okay, okay. So the act of marrying this man that you did not love meant potentially for you sacrificing who you wanted to be, because if you didn't love him, you didn't want to be his wife. That's right. Oh shit, I need another cup. All right, so boom, you get married. Yeah, transitioning, because you got married in what? 93?
Speaker 394.
Speaker 194? Okay, so, which is only two and a half three years after losing custody of your firstborn child. Mm-hmm, after losing custody of your firstborn child, what is that transition like for you, going from this helpless, defeated 18, 19, 20-year-old woman, Now you somebody's wife.
Speaker 3I had no idea what I was doing. I did not care that I didn't know.
Speaker 1Okay, what does that mean?
Speaker 3That means I always had a hidden agenda. I always had a plan. I always had a plan. It didn't always look good or seem right to other people, which I didn't really care, but I knew I had a plan, I had the master plan and I was going to marry this man that loved me but I didn't love him. But I knew I would never be in the dark, I knew I'd always have running water, I knew I'd always eat and I knew this man loved me. So he's going to love my child.
Speaker 1So for you, for the sake of you, because Jennifer didn't want those things.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1Jennifer wanted to join Navy. Yeah. So the Jennifer that you became was Jennifer wanted to join the Navy, yeah. So the Jennifer that you became was Jennifer the wife. For the sake of provision, yeah, and resources, yeah. Did this man know that?
Speaker 3And not until after I married him.
Speaker 1Did you tell him?
Speaker 3After I married him. Oh, tell him.
Speaker 1After I married him. Oh shit, lord. We thank you, because, baby, let me tell you something If I get up off my knee and a woman tells me, but he didn't get on his knee.
Speaker 3I proposed.
Speaker 1Ooh, so you was truly didn't ask for my money.
Speaker 1I had a plan see I had a plan okay, so at what point? So you told him what was his reaction. For him finding out from the horses mouth, because a lot of men are married to women that don't love them, but they don't know. So what was it like? For why did you tell him? Why did you tell him? Because the master plan is to save yourself by using him as a vehicle to get out. I understand that too, but I still as a vehicle to get out.
Speaker 3I understand that too, but I still had a heart to tell him, because that gives him a chance to decide whether I stay or whether I go. But if you stay. You can't hold it over my head you can't play the game and then make up the rules. Yeah, I changed him throughout the game.
Speaker 1Child. This is why I got a therapist now. Yeah, that's why I had to go see the lady. Y'all get me here first. This is why I had to see the lady. So obviously the man stayed.
Speaker 3Yeah, and it worked, it worked. Okay, it really worked.
Speaker 1Did it surprise you when he chose to stay?
Speaker 3No.
Speaker 1Because you knew he loved you.
Speaker 3Because I knew he loved me.
Speaker 1Okay, at what point did you love him back? When we? First had our son when we had john jr.
Speaker 3This was 96 yeah, okay, no yeah 96. Okay, I was born 98, yeah 96. When we first had our first son and I saw how he was with him, I was like yeah. I made the right decision, still growing into loving him.
Speaker 1So in a sense, you had foresight. That said, this is good ground for me to sow into. I don't want to put these seeds in the ground, but shit, where I'm going got to be better. Where I'm't want to put these seeds in the ground, but shit, where I'm going got to be better than that. And he's driving. Yeah, okay, yeah, okay. So for you, did your life take a turn for the better after John Jean was born?
Struggles With Parental Disconnect and Acceptance
Speaker 3Yes. Okay. Yeah, After our baby. Well, it was that's when you started coming around more. Okay, yeah, After our baby. Well, it was that's when you started coming around more. Okay. After John was born, and it just seemed right to me. It just seemed like everything was falling in.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 3And then here comes Justin In 98?
Speaker 1Yeah 98. Okay.
Speaker 3And everything just started coming together to me. To you. To me, but I knew that there was still somewhat of a barrier between you and John.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, so let's dig into it. There was a barrier between me and all y'all. So if we double back, right, because your truth exists simultaneously with mine, right. So doubling back to 91 through, I would say early 2000s, because Justin was born in 98. So I would say early 2000s, when I was about 10. So for the first 10 years of my life, the people that raised you raised me as their child. So I was raised to see you as my sister, not my mom. So for a long, long, long time I was raised to resent y'all.
Speaker 1Right, because on one hand you married John right. John Jr was born in 96. Justin came in 98. And you have seemingly this picture-perfect family without me in. My daddy is living his life. I got my little sister on his side. He finds his now wife moves and now he got a perfect family In my young adolescent mind. These people do not care about me Because I ain't being raised by, essentially my grandparents.
Speaker 1I'm having conversations that result in look at them, they don't care about you, they don't love you. When do they come get you? So much so to the point that going with y'all was punishment for me. Yeah Right, Because if we speak on the provision, I grew up in a big house. I never went without same as you right. So when I went with y'all and y'all essentially had less for me, it was like the TV don't even work in my room.
Speaker 1I want to go home. For me it was like the TV don't even work in my room. Yeah, I want to go home. I want to go home. I don't want to be here. I don't feel like y'all want me here anyway. I want to go home. So when going to spend time with my parents felt like punishment, I went back home. Now the flip side of that was I grew up in the same strict, structured environment as you did. Pk to the core, and I would go as far to say it was a little bit more intense because by that time she had to become an actual pastor. She wasn't just a preacher. So for her the level of aesthetic expectation was much higher. Yes, so y'all sung and went to church. Baby, I had to know the Bible out the back of my hand.
Speaker 1I was the Sunday school king six, seven years in a row, but I had the same struggles that you did, because I too was rebellious and I didn't know that you were adopted until I was 15. And prior to that, I spent so much of my childhood trying to figure out why I was different from these people. I don't see things how y'all see things. I'm not quiet, I'm not passive, I'm not a yes boy. I wanna know why and I don't care if you beat me. I'm still going to QI Versus seeing how my cousins were treated and I'm like come in right here.
Speaker 1So so one day because I actually grew up in the room that you were in prior to moving to the big house, and when we moved to the big house there was a dresser and I pulled out the drawer one day and there was a letter in there, right, and we've talked about this letter and in that letter was how I found out that you were adopted and I felt relieved because I wasn't crazy. I took that letter to her and she took it and threw it in the trash, said this is nonsense, and threw it in the trash. So here I am. I said this is nonsense, I threw in trash. So here I am, and so I'm trying to, because this is 2005 when things changed.
Speaker 1So for you, those visits had increased right around 98, going into 2000. So that's and by visits I mean me coming to spend time with you and it always felt for me out of place when I came to your house or I went to my dad's house, because I was always taught that y'all didn't love me. So in my mind, I'm here, I'm just here to Sunday. It's Friday night. I got in trouble and I got sent to stay with you and I want to be here.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1I didn't like my brothers for a long time.
Speaker 3I know.
Speaker 1Everybody in your house names Star Wars and J, except mine. That bothered me so deeply. So your truth is existing, my truth is existing, and I think there are times where I remember you struggling to figure out how to fix it. How do I make Carlos feel like he's supposed to be here, right? Maybe if we take this trip or we go do things, or because at that time you were at Golden Corral, right, so you was working?
Speaker 1late nights and I'd always be with John and the boys and you would come in late at night and try to talk to me and I'd let you talk and then I'd go to bed and I'd just wait for Sunday and I'd go back home. Do you remember those times? I remember those times. What was that?
Speaker 3like Very hurtful. A lot of those nights I cried myself to sleep Because I didn't know how to reach you, because there was so much spoken into your ears about me, 100%, so much trash, you know, till I don't have a leg to stand on over here. No.
Speaker 3I'm trying to make it from day to day. These people over here, they. Robin Peavy, they fall yeah I just All I can do is just be me and be honest, and that's all I can do is just be me and be honest, and that's all I can do. Right. So I knew that either God was going to do something, or I just I've always just had faith. I've just always had. I think you had to.
Speaker 1Because I can't imagine being a parent being so disconnected from my child and being so close to them, because we're not talking about states away no, you're talking about 10 to 15 minutes. Thank, you.
Speaker 3So it's like I really don't know, but I always knew that I was not wrong.
Speaker 1Because the transitional point between those two things were when did you start working at Kelly Cleaning?
Speaker 3That was, I was married. Yeah, I was married, I I was married. I got married at 22, so 23, 24.
Speaker 1Because I used to sneak and ride my bike to come see at work. So there was something that drove me to try. I know this is my mom. Yeah, so, but the actual transition happened in 2005. So this is from 91 to 2005. I was 15, 14 in March of 2005. So for 14 years we had not had a relationship. Not.
Speaker 1And so something very significant happened the person that I love most in the world died, and with him went a piece of me, and I think for me that was when the switch clicked that kind of mirrored 17 year old you, because he was kind of like the, the safety yeah right, and even you can attest to that right, there were times in your life where he kind of buffered you and that woman.
Speaker 1So for me, when he died, oh baby, I was done, I ain't had nobody else to care about. Yeah, so that prior to that I had normalized my life with my grandparents, right, it was like that's my mom, that's my dad, that's all I know. And then, prior to that is, when I came home one day and she had foster children and I was confused Because you remember, she had a ring. She had a ring with everybody's birthstones on it and mine was the last one known. So essentially all y'all had were grown out the house and she was raising me as an only child for about 12 years.
Speaker 1And I came one day and there was people in my house and I didn't know what to do about it Because these were hoodlums, because these were hoodlums, these were hoodlums, this is not of God. I wanted to sprinkle holy water on these two, get back Satan right, and eventually came to love them as my own siblings. But I remember, for me my life felt smaller because of these strangers in my house and then, following that, my granddaddy died and I think from there. That was. That was the first domino that fell in your favor, because, essentially, the relationship that I had with my grandma, the woman that raised you, started deteriorating very quickly because that safeguard was gone and all we had, her and me, was raw emotion. And again, I don't care, no more. I don't care what you do to me. I'm 16, 17 now. Your beatings don't hurt. I'm 16, 17 now your beatings don't hurt.
Speaker 1And there was a night in particular I want to make sure I say this right I came home one day from school and my cell phone was turned off and I had a conversation. I said my phone's not working and she said I know why was turned off. And I had a conversation and I said my phone's not working and she said I know why it turned off. I said why would you do that? She said you've been ill mannered and disrespectful. And I'm like no, I wasn't. What had happened was you had gotten me a job at Golden Corral two months prior, and so it's in my heart that I believe she didn't know how to deal with the idea of you and I having a relationship, and that made her feel threatened, of you and not having a relationship, yeah, and that made her feel threatened.
Speaker 1Mm-hmm. And so, shortly after that, one thing led to another, came home one day, and I came home. I and I came home, you remember this. So I had to be at work I want to say by 6 and I gotten home and she had taken my keys yeah you remember that?
Speaker 1and I was mad and I called you and I said she took my keys, I can't come to work and I need to come to work. And you sent John to come get me and take me to work. You remember that? Yeah, john came and got me, took me to work. John brought me back home that night. Then the next day my clothes was packed in bags. When I got home from school I walked into the car garage and it was trash bags right around the stairs and I looked and my clothes were in it and I was confused. So I go in the house and I was like whoa, why is my clothes outside? And she said, since you want to be grown and you got it all figured out, you can get out of my house.
Speaker 1And I blacked out yes, you did and I think for me more than anything I don't know if I've even said this out loud I was hurt Because I spent my life loving you. My grandparents loved them. I remember in 94 when my grandma was sick. I remember later in 96, 97, when granddaddy had a stroke. I remember he had another one in 99. All I ever known was them being their son. There were other relationships that I seen her cut off is what I'll say right, and I never considered that that would ever happen to me. So when it did, out of hurt and sadness and heartbreak, honestly, um, yeah, I tore that shit up yes, you did, I was there yeah but I am not gonna say that I did not enjoy it, I so so.
Speaker 1That I did not enjoy it, aye, so what did that do for you? Because I remember you being there, right, yeah, and you and John were super calm, right. And I remember thinking to myself why am I the only mad person here? I don't understand why nobody else is up and burning down, burning down.
Speaker 3I was pleased, and I was happy that the truth was manifesting.
Speaker 1In front of your eyes.
Speaker 3In front of everybody's eyes. It was like nobody had to say anything. It just.
Speaker 1That was a full circle moment for you.
Speaker 3Yes, that was. I was like oh, oh, you, just you. You wouldn't even imagine, how that validated me. I was like See I?
Speaker 1told y'all I was telling everybody.
Speaker 3I told y'all Nobody is telling everybody, I told y'all Nobody's listening to me.
Speaker 1This boy had to tell this out. The police had to be called For y'all to believe me For y'all to believe me.
Speaker 3Now y'all see, it wasn't me it wasn't me, ever, never, ever, ever, ever, ever was me. But I realize now that she had an agenda yep, I think it started out as an agenda yeah.
Speaker 1I think at some point Do I believe she loved me like a son? I do. I do believe that she was invested in my development. Right, I do believe that she saw something in me that and I don't mean for this to be misconstrued, because I know some of my cousins are going to see this and I love y'all but I do believe, based on conversations I've had with her, that there was something that she wanted to invest in me, for me to go forward with.
Speaker 3The same thing that she wanted to invest in me, for me to go forward with the same thing that she wanted to invest in me, that she wanted to go forth with. But the thing is, the sacrifice is too much. Yes. The sacrifice is too great.
Speaker 1Yes, I can definitely attest to that, because there's parts of me that I'm not willing to compromise.
Speaker 3You're not going to do that, and I believe that that was the agenda. Yeah. That. I believe that vicariously she wanted to live through me but couldn't, so, oh, okay. I'll fix you.
Speaker 3I got him. I'm going to do that and it still didn't work and I feel like that, even today, right now, she still wants that. Still didn't work and I feel like that even today, right now, she still wants that. Not that she would ever get it from us oh no yeah, that's what I'm just saying but that's what I'm saying her agenda has to be and I think maybe that's because that's why she adopted more kids, because she felt like somebody somebody got it because what I will say for context, because I believe that all sides of the truth are valid.
Speaker 1I contribute who I am. Because I believe that all sides of the truth are valid. I contribute who I am, how well spoken I am, how I carry myself as a man, how articulate that I am. I would attribute to her 110%. When I step out of the house, baby, baby, I'm put together because, how I was raised, I can say that.
Speaker 3I don't. I don't think so. I think you would have been who you are without her. I can't say that I can't okay. I now, as far as you know liking nice things, and you know liking nice things, and you know, as far as people look at you, you know I feel like that comes from her.
Speaker 1Yeah, I would say that some of my polish comes from there.
Speaker 3Yeah, but I don't think that the well-spokenness, I don't think that the straightforwardness, I don't think none of that comes from her. I don't.
Speaker 1Because Z you're not on.
Speaker 3That's what I think. I think you were born to be who you are doing, things as you do them. But you know, she might have just shined up a little bit.
Speaker 1I can agree with that. She is a phenomenal business woman. It's okay for you to say that.
Speaker 3I just I call it ace, ace, I call it spade, a spade you do and. I feel like, you know, people learn things that make them manipulate people, make them make people think a certain type of way. I just think all that goes with that, and you know I could do without that.
Speaker 1But let me ask you a question so to double that, that I'm kicked out of the house. She says take him and go. And some other things happen that I think are very significant, but I'm gonna leave out for the sake of context. So she says take him and go. And I'll never forget that ride from her house to your house. I didn't say anything.
Speaker 3Nothing, totally quiet, and I gave you that.
Speaker 1And I appreciate that I needed that.
Speaker 3Yeah, I know you needed that. That's why I was like when he's ready to talk, he'll talk. Yeah, but anything that I say right now it's not gonna, it's not gonna be okay, it's this.
Speaker 1I remember thinking on that car ride from her house to your house. What is gonna happen? To me what now what now?
Speaker 3so what happened to you?
Speaker 1you know, she made it very clear that that the $50,000 that she had set aside for my college education would not be used for my college education.
Speaker 1So I think for me, I promised myself on a car ride I would never put myself in a position where somebody could ever do that to me again, kick me out or leave me disadvantaged or pull the rug from under me. I want to say, either right before the arra, the I joined the Army, I was like, don't worry about it, I'm going to cut this check. And I think, for me, that lit a fire in me and a drive that I had not had previously, because I didn't care about school. I played sports. I enjoyed the sports team, horse playing.
Speaker 1I should have been expelled in my senior year with all the writers that I had. You came to school a few times. So, yeah, I think for me getting kicked out and losing all sense of self, because who was I without this woman? Who was I without this name, this aesthetic Right? And when we got to where you live, we had to figure out how to get me to school every day, because my high school was 45 minutes away and the idea for me to transfer, oh, I was not with that. No, ma'am, I don't know what we're going to do, but I'm not leaving this school and you know. Shout out to Aunt Anne for sure For what she contributed to my ability to get to school.
Speaker 1Love her forever for that yeah and we had, because she was aware of the situation and she we had many talks where she poured into me and loved on me in ways that I needed. I seen here. But you know, and to skip space, I think for us me, the thing that made me open to loving you as my mom was seeing you do what it took to make sure I was taken care of.
Parenting Styles and Life Lessons
Speaker 3That's my job. That was always my job. I paid child support. For years 18. I paid no 17, 16 and a half.
Speaker 1Child support.
Speaker 3Child support. I paid every dime.
Speaker 1For a child you gave birth to.
Speaker 3For a child I gave birth to that I didn't ask anybody to take from me.
Speaker 1That was essentially raised by your mama. No, not the woman that raised you. Okay, I got you.
Speaker 3I just want to always always make that clear. Listen, that raised you. Okay, I got you. I just want to always always make that clear.
Speaker 1Listen, we love you Vanessa. We love you, vanessa McKesson. My mom's biological mom. Yes, we love you, so we're probably going to break this into two episodes. So, boom, we figured this out. It's me and my mom riding out and you know what's crazy.
Speaker 1You remember this? I love my daddy, I do. But you remember, you remember the first night at your house? I guess she had called him and he felt like he needed to show up. Lean back in your seat, because he is not going to read my daddy's in his absence. Matter of fact, forget how broad it is. That's a conversation between me and him, because why do you think she's going to do that? So boom, long story short. Yeah, we figured this out. I remember it was. I want to say June. It had to say June. It had to be June because I think I had already graduated. We were trying to figure out what I was going to do after high school. I don't even think I told you that I applied to Claflin. No, I didn't tell you no.
Speaker 1Yes, you did, I did because you had been going for summer, right, I remember I was going for summer programs and when I graduated, or right before I graduated much love to Sharon Capers too, by the way for the prison program at Claflin University that I attended for about two or three summers called her up, told her I didn't have a plan for college, and I think also that knowing that that $50,000 was in the background kind of gave me a sense of security that I didn't take seriously. Anyway, I remember it was June 2009 when I went to the mailbox and got my acceptance letter from Claffey University and baby who's in there yeah, I knew what I was going to do.
Speaker 3You remember that? I definitely remember that definitely remember that.
Speaker 1Yeah, by that time we had began mending our relationship and fast forward. I had financial aid that first year and that second year, but that third year I was short a couple thousand dollars, you remember what was on that paper?
Speaker 3We was getting ready to go to state.
Speaker 1Oh Lord, I couldn't take it. I couldn't take it. The lady in financial aid said well, south Carolina, we to go to state. Oh Lord, I couldn't take it. I couldn't take it. The lady in front of me said well, south Carolina State might be able to Baby. South Carolina Ain't no shade. South Carolina State couldn't do nothing for me. I'm a Panther baby. I go to school on the left side of the fence and you know what. And we buckled down and you made it possible for me to finish my junior year.
Speaker 3I was supposed to and I think at that time which I look in hindsight didn't need to do, but at that time I felt like I owed you something I really did. I felt lost time.
Speaker 3Yeah, I felt like I owed you for lost time, but in hindsight I really didn't owe you anything, because I tried everything. I did everything that I could do In that time. You know what I'm saying, so I think it was just a certain amount of guilt to say I don't know what we got to do, but we got to do something.
Speaker 1We got to do something.
Speaker 3We got to fix this. My baby want to go here. We got to fix, fix it and I'm gonna fix it now. So, um, god to God. Be the glory To God be the glory.
Speaker 1Yeah, and, like I said, I think for me the turning point for us was me seeing you show up for me when I had nothing. That was a point where I remember. I remember having four pairs of pants and like five shirts and washing them every week and wearing the same clothes every week and, no matter what, you made sure they was clean and they was iron.
Speaker 3That's my job.
Speaker 1What advice would you give 17 year old pregnant Jennifer right now?
Speaker 3why did you have to say pregnant?
Speaker 1yep, pregnant, because it's too easy it's too easy for you to tell un-pregnant Jennifer don't do it, don't sneak that boy in the house pregnant, 17 year old, pregnant Jennifer.
Speaker 3What would I tell her today? Make wise choices, be intentional. Make wise choices, be intentional, be open and be true to yourself. Don't let anybody change you. If you feel it in your gut, go with your gut. Don't let anybody make decisions for you. Got you. Yeah.
Speaker 1Do you have any regrets? No.
Speaker 3No. No. No regrets what I will say. If things had been like we were talking today, had I not gotten pregnant at 17, I think I would be a lot farther in my career or in the things that were important to me before I got pregnant. But I don't regret my decision. Okay, I don't, because I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you. You wouldn't be my best friend.
Speaker 1But no, no, no, your best child, you said. You said I don't even know if my brothers are going to see this, but they know what it is. It is Carlos and them, carlos and them.
Speaker 3Oh my, oh my, oh my.
Speaker 1I'm David Ruffin and they is the Contagions. It's my name on the bill. I'm selling the records. They know what it is. I will say this transitioning I am the parent that I am because of the parents that I have, and what I mean by that. I lead my philosophy of parenting with transparency, because that's what I've seen anytime we've had a conversation, my philosophy of parenting with transparency.
Speaker 1Because that's what I've seen Anytime we've had a conversation you never wash it down, you never whitewashed it, you never left out the ugly parts. It's always been true, honest and open the good, the bad and the ugly.
Speaker 3And it's the same thing with my dad.
Speaker 1Absolutely, and I'm blessed to have parents who aren't blinded by wanting to be perfect.
Speaker 3Absolutely, because if we were perfect, you would never learn anything.
Speaker 1Or I would lie about the bad things, that part which is much more traumatic.
Speaker 3Yeah. So I'm going to need you to see me fall. I'm going to need to witness to you where I fell. I'm going to need to witness to you where I fell, so that you might not or might fall into the same problem. But if you fall in, at least you know. Oh, I got this advice from my mom, my mom said don't do this. But you know what I feel like I'm going to do this, so you can't say that you don't have a guideline, you don't?
Speaker 1that's if I could say that because we talked about earlier today right, because, baby, in the absence of guidance, I'm gonna make some shit up. That's right, okay, okay, okay. What's it like having those experiences as a parent and raising children who are now parents? Because all your kids got kids.
Speaker 3Yeah, all my kids have kids, and what I am learning now is not to give advice. Okay, because my children make it very clear. These my kids. I don't act like that. These my kids, and I let them be their kids Until I see where I need to intervene. I let them be their kids until I see where I need to intervene, because at some point I wished that somebody would have said let me say these my kids, I mean, we might go through the same experiences, but how we go through the same experiences, but how we go through them are different 100% Perspective is everything.
Speaker 3Yeah, so the way I would have gone or dealt with it. You might not deal with it that way, but we still get the same result. Right. So my way of giving advice is don't give any advice. Until you have to Until you have to. Okay. Yeah, okay, if that makes sense, it does make sense.
Speaker 1Because there's been times when I've been addressing my children and it will step in. You know, all right, all right, bro, time out, time out.
Speaker 3But that's not very that's not very often, no it's not out, time out. But that's not very often.
Speaker 1No, it's not very often. It's not, and I appreciate it. Thank you for not being overbearing.
Speaker 3Yeah, because I stand back to see how you're going to do it, how you're going to deal with it.
Speaker 1Child, let me tell you something People apparently don't embrace emotional intelligence until they're grandparents.
Speaker 3You're not finna. Do them any kind of high now.
Speaker 1Says a woman. That didn't mean any kind of high.
Speaker 3Well, you can take it, they can't.
Speaker 1The Bible speaks to this, Listen don't talk to me about my grandbabies Prophecies and hypocrites. Don't say nothing about my grandbabies Child well, I think this conversation has been very enlightening.
Speaker 3I think so.
Speaker 1You enjoyed it. I think there's so much more to impact because we can dig into Christianity.
Speaker 3Church hurt.
Speaker 1Oh, church hurt. Oh no See, you got too excited. Oh my, we be gonna have to bleak out people's names, Church's names, church's names, pastor's names, but that would be good. Church hurt. Yeah, have you back for another episode? Huh, have you back for another episode?
Speaker 3Absolutely Child. Let's do that, let's do church hurt you want to do that yeah.
Speaker 1That's going to be a series.
Speaker 3Yeah, we could go for days and days and days on that one.
Speaker 1Good job, but no, I'm grateful for you.
Speaker 3Oh, I love you so much.
Speaker 1I love you, thank you and I appreciate your journey.
Speaker 3Thank you.
Speaker 1I wouldn't be who I am without your journey, your truths, your traumas. And, to close on a good note, you had the opportunity to double back and reconnect with your biological family. What.
Speaker 3We don't even have time for that. But oh, my God, oh my I'll never forget.
Speaker 1You was working at Pizza and you called me. I was home on a break or something from school and you're like Carlos. This private investigator has reached out to me and said that my family had been looking for me for years and I'm like mine's a scam. This white woman is trying to scam you and come to find out.
Speaker 3Come to find out. I think I still got that footage, do you? I think so. We need to do something with that.
Speaker 1Yeah, we did, we were supposed to go to Oprah.
Speaker 3We were supposed to go to Oprah. We were supposed to go to Child who else we were supposed to? That was supposed to be a thing. Yeah, it was, but it was a thing, it was a thing. It was an awesome, awesome. Listen, let me tell you something If you are looking for a family member or family members, and you've been adopted, don't give up oh my gosh, that's so weighty, that's so heavy, it's so true.
Speaker 3Don't give up, don't give up don't give up because it can happen. After 36 years, I was reunited with my family and it was like God stopped the clock and when we got back, when we were not reunited, it was like he started the clock and it was like no time. Don't give up, please. If I could say anything tonight, don't give up. Keep looking please. If I could say anything tonight, don't give up, keep looking.
Speaker 1I don't think there's a more perfect note to end this conversation. Though don't give up, that's a word that's a preach.
Speaker 3Listen, don't make me run out of here, because I don't. I could say it so many different ways. The bible says don't I could say it so many different ways, because the Bible says don't to pray without ceasing Yep. Come on and don't get tired.
Speaker 1Because the prayers of the righteous availeth much.
Speaker 3They looking for you and you looking for them.
Speaker 1Don't give up Because you don't know how close you are. Thank y'all for tuning in tonight. We do this for the sake of hoping to spark these conversations in your own life, in your own connections, in your own life, in your own connections, in your own families, because healing begins with expressing. It begins with giving the vulnerability, the transparency, the act of saying this is my truth and I want to say it. So thank you for participating or listening to our truths. I think this is a phenomenal episode one of season two yes.
Speaker 1And we'll see you for episode two.