Urban Legends, Kidney Thieves, and Campus Nightmares!

Welcome back, fellow weirdos, to another delightfully strange journey into the bizarre! This week, Stevie and Jacklynn are diving headfirst into the nostalgia-fueled, spine-chilling world of Urban Legends . You know, those spooky stories we all somehow knew word-for-word in middle school before the internet was even a thing ? Yeah, those ones.

Before the spooks begin, we recap a wild train ride home from a Yungblud concert, a run-in with a spiritual skeptic who broke the golden rule of horror movies (never invite the entity home, dude) , and a plea for your strange tales for an upcoming listener email episode . Plus, we clear up some very passionate boundaries regarding Canadian Caesars vs. American Bloody Marys .

Then, it’s time to unpack the real-life histories, urban evolutions, and psychological tricks behind the legends that kept us awake at night:

• Bloody Mary: Jacklynn relives her childhood sleepover trauma in Greensville , while Stevie breaks down the historical ties to Queen Mary I and Mary Worth. We also look at the science of the Troxler Effect—the real reason your face starts melting if you stare into a mirror too long .
• Flashing Headlights Gang Initiations: Remember the 90s panic that flashing your lights at a dark car would get you hunted by the Bloods or the Crips? The gang reveals how this viral rumour actually spread via... fax machines?
• The Hook Man: A deep dive into Lover's Lane paranoia, 1950s morality tales designed to stop teenagers from making out in cars, and the terrifying 1946 Texarkana Moonlight Murders that inspired it all.
• "Aren't You Glad You Didn't Turn On The Light?": The ultimate college campus nightmare of the inconsiderate roommate, a gruesome discovery, and its eerie connections to real-life boogeyman Ted Bundy .
• The Kidney Thieves: Why waking up in a hotel bathtub full of ice after a spiked drink is actually a "surgical fantasy" according to medical science .

Want more Weirdos of Whimsy? Check out https://bio.site/weirdosofwhimsy to find everything in one place! From there, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel, grab some official merch, or follow us on Instagram to chat!

Have a bone-chilling story of your own? We want to hear it! Send your scary encounters to weirdosofwhimsy@gmail.com or DM us. Your story might just make it onto a future episode! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

If I ever got a WhatsApp message saying like, the bloods and the craps are um why do I always go to this um flex? Yeah. The bloods and the craps.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

You gotta come alive.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

You guessed it. Whimsical. I just jimmy the whole time.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

I jimmied the whole time you're doing it. Um, how could you not when you have this delightful man on your shirt?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

She's a little obsessed.

SPEAKER_03 1:01

This is my shirt that I got at Youngblood last night.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05

And I love it. And I'm not gonna tell you how much it was, but it smells like vanilla and it's very soft. Like this is a great panties are pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

When you get like good ones, I do love like the good fabric.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

So good, though. This is this is a good shirt. I wish I had purchased more.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Um I was gonna buy like a hoodie or something because they were good, cool hoodies, but Jesus Christ. Oh, a lot of money.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

But yeah, this is this is this is my shirt. He's cute. I don't know. He's so cute. Um, but yeah, love it. Had to wear the shirt. Um to recap, love Youngblood, not sure if you know. And uh when we were on the train coming home last night from Youngblood, yeah, because obviously this the exhibition um train was past, of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

We try to take the train in whenever we can because like driving into Toronto is shit. It's just a nightmare. But also training when there's always some like sporting event or a concert, and trying to get back to Aldershot on the train is also just insane.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Just wild. So we all got on and we had to sit close proximity, but we were kind of like the four of us were like sort of broken up, but like not too bad. It was actually not bad. Not terrible. You tried to get a foursome and someone just took the seats, and that's bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

But um, anyways, thanks for trying.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah, trying.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Um, but the people we are sitting across, tell the I don't remember how it came up. How did it come up?

SPEAKER_00 2:26

I think we were chatting about because we had been talking about like haunted stuff, right?

SPEAKER_03 2:30

With Katie and Allison. Katie and Allison. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Um, and then I I think just randomly that. One of us were like, uh, have we talked about that on the pod? Or have we talked about that on the pod? And then the one guy, we I don't think we even introduced ourselves to each other. He just asked. He was like, Oh, do you guys have a podcast? Yeah, yeah. And uh yeah, it was him and his girlfriend wife, I'm not sure how they were. Partner, friend, who knows, companion? Um and yeah, we started talking about it, and he's like, I gotta check it out. And I like wrote it down. So, like, if you're listening, hi. Hi, thanks so much.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

That was so exciting and cool. Like, we even said to Katie, like, this is the first in the wild random people talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Who were like, Yeah, we're gonna check out your podcast. Yeah, this is why I want like, I don't know, do podcasters have like business cards or Q low, like even like a sticker.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

We should get stickers. You can I mean, I think, didn't we? I think stickers are available. If you purchase our merch, which by the way, go to any of our profiles if you click the link tree or whatever it's called, link in the back. Um, you can still get our merch. It's available, different shirts. Like we have the rainbow tie-dye. You don't have to get the rainbow tie-dye. No, I always black, there's gray, there's blue, there's vintage vintage groche, like I just said groche. Vintage wash where it's like that Heather Gray. Oh, I like it. Um, lots of different opportunities. But yeah, there are stickers, there are mugs, there are bags. But yeah, it felt cool. So thank you, people. We did not even ask their names because we're rude. We are so rude. Why didn't we say anything about them?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

I am not good at introducing myself.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

We asked a lot of questions, but like he said he was very spiritual and like had some things, and then we talked about that, but um, we didn't want to scare.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Not to like out you dude. Oh, yeah. Um, but he he was a skeptic and he went to a haunted location, and then uh he was like, Yeah, I like invited the entity home with me.

SPEAKER_03 4:17

He was doing some provocation, which is not a great idea, man.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

And he's like, Some things got weird and happened.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

I was like, oh, nothing changes your mindset about that when you uh dare to challenge, and then you get what you asked for.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

But no, they were really cool and really nice, and thank you so much. Thanks for listening. Hello, welcome. Um I like, guys, we love doing this. We we started it just to do it for ourselves, but now we're like, we want, we want to reach people. So if you wouldn't mind, like please like, share, subscribe. I know you guys always hear it from podcast people, but we're local and you kind of know us, sort of. And you know, we just gotta get some more weird Canadian content out there. We really do. Um it's fun, it's fun, it's great, engage with us. Which also leads me to my next point before we get into our episode today.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

Um, we really want to do a listener email story session. Yeah. So if you or if you know a story, like it could be a freaky Friday happened to a friend of a friend of mine, yeah, um, sort of situation. It can be anonymous. You can like give us instructions to like not say your name, not say your workplace, not say specifics. I don't care. I just at least want to know like the location of where it happened. Um and again, you can be vague if it was like whatever, like cemetery or hospital, my room. I don't care. We don't have to get specific, but I want to know what happened.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

We want to know even if it's like it could have been nothing. It could have been nothing.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

But like something weird happened. Something weird happened. Tell us about it. It doesn't have to be haunting, it can be I saw something in the woods, I saw something in the sky.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

We talked about my on uh I think two episodes ago on the UFO episode. I'm pretty sure it was a spotlight. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

But you never know. You never know. So like let the listeners decide. Tell us your story, send it in.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

We have a few already, but we want to do an episode.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

So that's why I'm really pushing it because, like, oh my gosh, we have some now. Um you don't want to only hear about us.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

It's true.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

And our stories. So like come together. Thank you for being our community. Yeah. Um send in your weird tales, your weird and whimsical tales. You can also be whimsical. Oh, yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Like just have you seen a unicorn?

SPEAKER_03 6:30

Let us know. 100%. Have you ridden a dragon lately? Let us know. Um fucked a mermaid. Woo!

SPEAKER_00 6:42

We support monster fuckers here.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

We do.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Because what do we decide? We're kind of we would. We might, maybe? Werewolves arewolves are hot.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

A thousand percent. Okay. Vampires are all they are.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

Um we are absolutely never gonna become monetized. I listen, sometimes I forget and it just pops out. I love it. People are podcasts. People love it.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

You can get monetized while swearing, no?

unknown 7:08

Oh, totally. It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Also, we're nowhere near doing that. So like we're cool.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

Um okay. Well, on that little chestnut, let's go. Also, please make sure any monster sex is consensual.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Oh, yeah. But like video and record and subject to us.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Yeah, if that's your listener email that you want to send in, we're we're on board. Oh my god, I love it. Okay, so we are very happy to be back with you, our fellow weirdos. Let's get into a brand new episode. Today we are talking about Urban Legends. Urban legends. Ooh. So I feel like this has to be said, even though it doesn't really have to be said. Okay. Urban legends, not a lot to research. You can't really There really wasn't. And you can't really like research something that's just been like orally passed down. Yeah. Or your dad. Uh, or like I don't mean your specific father. It was just a dad joke in your head. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. Um it's just one of those things where like these are things we've all heard of.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

I was interested, like, how did it get started? What are the origins? So that's kind of what I tried to research.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

Um, but don't come for us if our urban legends are different from the version that you heard. If there is a new version, write it in. Let us know.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Um I also found when trying to look up urban legends that a lot of them were like I was picturing something different, but there was like Bigfoot was on there. Um the When to Go is on there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, for sure. That kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Pretty much still urban legends.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Very urban legends, but I just I I thought of them as different things. Okay. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Sure. Would would you like to elaborate on that or no?

unknown 8:45

Yeah. Okay, great.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

I d I don't know. I just have it in my mind. That's totally fine. I get it. I it makes sense that they are.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Your interpretation of an urban legend is different from what other people's interpretation of urban legends.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Can I explain what my interpretation was? Not really. That's fine.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

That's that's why they come here.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Like the hook man, which we will talk about. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh I don't know, yeah.

unknown 9:07

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Well, maybe bec maybe because I do actually believe in Bigfoot and the Yeti and stuff like that. I see what you're saying. And like cryptids, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Whereas like maybe urban legends are more stories.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

In your interpretation, yeah. See, it's it's it's subjective. It does. It's all subjective. It's all subjective. I completely get it. Where it's like a specific tale as opposed to a being. Yeah. I understand. I understand. Um, well, with that said, we're gonna kind of do a little bit of everything here. Um so let's dive in with the first one. In my mind, it's like this is like every kid's nightmare.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

Um, Bloody Mary.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Bloody Mary.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

Right? So I will explain my version of what I know the Ur uh Bloody Mary Urban Legend to be. Okay. If it's different from yours, let me know. Okay. Um so essentially, as like a kid in sleepover, she was always in sleepover.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Always sleepover.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

And you'd like, I remember this one girl, I won't add anyone, but this um one group of friends that I was friends with when we were like 11, 12, 13 years old, she lived in Greensville in this spooky as fuck house. And I just remember being fascinated with it. It is it was, I haven't seen it in a long time, like beautiful and creepy and weird. And we'd had she had the best room for sleepovers. We'd all compile into this, like in her living room. But um they decided to do like the Bloody Mary joke on me, or like, you know, why don't you go in and do it? So this was my first thing. So my first time with Bloody Mary.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Mouth who it is to me. Who is it?

SPEAKER_03 10:42

You don't know her. Oh, I know. No, you've never, I was gonna do it. You don't know who I don't know who that is. Um, anyways, she's lovely, fantastic. Hope she's doing great. You have no idea who I'm talking about. Um so the the whole thing with Bloody Mary is you stand in front of a mirror and you say her name three times. Three times. And then the urban legend goes that like she appears in the mirror and scratches your eyes out, and then you're blind and you're bleeding from the eyes. She was intense. She takes your eyes and then that's it. Yeah. So like I go in there, I only said it twice. I chickened out. I couldn't. You chickened out? Oh, baby, did I chicken out? Because it was like lights were off and things were happening, and they were like scratching at the end. Did you have a candle lit? Or were you?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

No, no, it was supposed to be pure darkness darkness.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

So, but that's the thing. Other people's urban legends are different. So that's kind of the my Bloody Mary story. Do you have a different one?

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Mine is very, very much the same.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Um, I'm trying to remember. I I think I heard that you were supposed to have a candle lit.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

Okay. Makes sense because you could see it a little bit better.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

A little bit better. And then you can kind of see if there's anything behind you. Ooh. Something came out of the darkness. Okay. I think I tried both. Oh. And I think I did do the three times.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

And you still have your eyes in your life. So, like, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

As far as I know.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Fair enough. So let's get into the kind of like origin story of Bloody Mary, right? Which again, who knows? So the legend of Bloody Mary is, of course, one of the most enduring pieces of Western folklore, blending historical tragedy with modern sort of mirror gazing or scrying, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

Um, while there is no single true origin, because yeah, uh, the legends generally attributed to potentially one of these sort of potentially maybe primary sources. We'll see. Who knows? This is again Apparently.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Apparently. That's my vocal sound.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

So hard lately. What's the full line?

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Apparently on TV. Never been on live TV before. Do you want to share where that's from? It's just a vine, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Oh, is it the Vine?

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Or like an interview or like a new video. I thought it was an interview, yeah, yeah. A little kid. I don't know. So good.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

Um, okay, so let's talk about like a potential historical candidate, which is real. This part's real. This is real. So Queen Mary the First. So the most common historical link to uh is to Mary Tudor. The am I saying that right? Tudor? Tudor? Tudor, the first queen uh regent of England. So essentially from like in the 1550s to yeah, 1550s. So the bloody moniker, um, she earned that nickname Bloody Mary after she ordered the executions of nearly 300 religious dissenters, burning them at the stake. Yeah, that'd do it.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

That'd do it.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

So Mary suffered several phantom pregnancies as well, where she exhibited all the physical signs of being with child, um, only for the symptoms to then disappear. So this led to kind of the folklore connection between her and her spirit of um like lost children or miscarriages or you know, like ghost babies. Ghost Marys. So bloody Mary. So potentially who knows? What's another Mary that could have come from?

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Uh so we have the kind of like the folkloric candidate, uh, Mary Worth. Sure. In American folklore, many believe the spare the spirit is Mary Worth, a woman from the from the 19th century. Uh variations of her story include a witch who lived in the woods and was executed by townspeople, as witches were back then. A woman who was horribly disfigured in a carriage accident.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Sure, we're not sure.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Could have happened. Or a mother who lost her children in a tragic fire or kidnapping and died of grief.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

Sad. Sad. All possibilities of those. Yeah, Mary Worth person could be very sad.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Um so the ritual origins of like the mirror divination or scrying. Yeah. Um, long before it became a horror story, the Bloody Mary ritual was actually a divination game for young women in the early 20th century. Okay. According to the tradition, a woman would walk backwards up a flight of stairs holding a candle and a mirror. Oh. That's just dangerous on its stage. Dangerous. Fall and break your neck. Yeah, you're bloody Mary then. Um, so as the woman would gaze into the glass, she was supposed to see the face of her future husband. Wow, not worth it.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

I feel like I've heard this. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not worth it, though. Not worth it.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

However, if she saw a skull or a grim reaper, it meant she would die before she had the chance to marry.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Well, shit.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

Yeah. Over time, this very spooky game evolved into the modern version where people summon a vengeful spirit by summoning Bloody Mary in the meeting. Bloody Mary. There you go. So that's creepy. That's creepy. Let's talk a little bit about like seeing faces in mirrors. We've kind of talked about that before, but there's actually a psychological sort of explanation behind this. I it's happened to me. Yeah? It's absolutely happened to me. Of course it has. It's also happened to me where if I'm on camera and I'm looking dead into the camera, which who does that? Psychopaths. Like, why am I looking at people on the screen?

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Oh, yeah. I'm usually if if I'm on the screen, I'm looking at myself.

SPEAKER_03 15:44

Of course. Who does it? But there are times where I'll like look directly into the camera. I don't know if it's, I think I want to make a point or I'm stronger or whatever. And I'll see my face and it like changes.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

This is a actual physical explanation.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

You're looking into like the lens. Yeah. Like here. We're looking at you right now.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

Yes, but you like obviously on my screen, I can see myself. So out of my peripherals, my face will change. And this is actually a thing. This isn't a real life phenomenon. Party people right in. If this has ever happened to you. Same thing with in the mirror. If you stare at yourself long enough, like your face will change.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Well, I talked about that on one episode, didn't I? Doing doing shrooms.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

Even if you're sober. Okay. So the strange face illusion. Okay. It's kind of what it's been called. So if you've ever wondered why people actually see things when they chant her name in the dark, Bloody Mary. Yeah. Science potentially has an answer. Okay. It's a phenomenon called Capras syndrome or the Troxler effect.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Okay. Uh so when you stare at a mirror in low light for a prolonged period, your brain's sensors uh the my Invisalign today is fucking with me.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

I mean, to be fair, it's brand new.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

It's brand new. My teeth are achy. Uh so your brain's sensory system begins to drop information it deems redundant. Interesting. Uh this causes facial features to appear to melt, distort, or transform into something monstrous. Like it's a thing. It's a thing. Your mind then fills in the gaps with scary imagery, effectively creating the ghosts for you. Right? Right? Our minds do weird shit.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

I'm telling you, it's on the list to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

It's on the list to talk about, pardon people. Um, but yeah, it's absolutely happened to me.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

But also, even if we're not looking at it scientifically, mirrors are supposed to be like portals and like cool. Yeah. Mirrors are a thing.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

Mirrors are a thing, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

That's cool though.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Very cool, right? So that's a little bit about Bloody Mary.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Bloody Mary.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

Also a drink that you drink, but I don't.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

I do, no.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

No, I don't.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

I don't drink Bloody Mary.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Oh, you like Caesars?

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Very different.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

Really?

SPEAKER_00 17:56

You didn't know this? Oh my god. Ooh! What's a Bloody Mary? Bloody Mary is literally tomato juice, strictly tomato juice, and I think it has like the va the vodka. The vodka. The vodka? Uh Bloody Mary is, I'm pretty sure, it's it's it's like a Caesar. Okay. But instead of clamato juice, it's tomato juice. I know it. And vodka, basically. And Caesar is. Caesar is clamado clamato. Clamato. Clamato juice, which is like clam juice and tomato juice mixture, but it's not as thick and heavy as tomato juice. And there's other spices, and there's the the the vodka. I don't know why I'm saying it like that.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

You keep saying you don't want to go to the States and yet you keep having an American accent.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

I know. What's going on? But no, I So totally different. Bloody Marys are gross. I don't like them. Caesars. And Caesars are strictly American. Uh Jesus. I'm having a stroke today. It's Canadian. Caesars are Canadian.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

And Bloody Mary's more so in America?

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

Oh, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

And I don't know if Bloody Marys have all the accoutrements that Caesars have. But Caesars are delicious.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

Isn't there like Worcestershire sauce in Caesars? Yeah. Are you impressed by how I said it? No problem.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

That's great. Well, who's Sister Cere? Have you seen that?

unknown 19:12

No.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

This guy's like, uh, it's again one of like the memes or reels, and he's like uh trying to say Worcester Share. And then he and then the guy's like, Who's Sister Cherie?

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Who's Sister Cherie? That's great.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

It's so good.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

That's very good. Um okay. Well, thanks for educating me on that. You're welcome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Did you like my response to that? It was so good.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

Like you were very offended. How badly done. I'm sorry. I liked your passion on that topic. Thank you. Why don't you hit us with another Urban Legend, Stevie?

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Next, we have Flashing Your Headlights.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

This is a huge one.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

This is a huge one, and you probably all have heard of it. Yeah. Or have thoughts about it.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You gotta wing it. Wing the explanation.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, winging it. Uh so basically, what I remember is um if you're driving down a dark road, uh, you see a car coming towards you.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Uh without their headlights on.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Could be, or their high beams are on.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Or their high beams are on, and you flash them to the little car thingies. Yes. The car thingies. The car thingies. Yes. Everybody's got them. Everyone's got them. So you flash at them to either let them know they don't have their headlights on or they have their high beams on. Right. Um, the little signal. And then basically you keep driving, you're doing your thing, and then all of a sudden the car behind you kind of turns around and starts following you, kind of riding your bumper, starts beeping and flashing their lights in your rearview mirror. Yes. Shit like that. Shit like that. I always had it that um it was either they wanted to murder or kill you, or it was like uh the mob. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 20:57

It was people who were gonna basically Yes, and an induction into like a gang initiation or a mob induction kind of thing. Like that's a hundred percent what I uh was told to. First of all, I was taught by my like my dad, like, hey, if there's anyone who's coming at you with high beams, just remind them and like flick it.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

And then same thing in driver's ed, like you know, make sure you always have your lights on, you can flick it. Like they literally taught us this.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

I don't, I've never, because of this legend.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

So that's what I'm saying. So when this led like when I heard about this legend, I'm like, I am never doing this. Never, but it's crazy that everyone knew about it. Everyone knew about it, like, so where did that origin come from, Steven? Yeah, so like you will be killed if you flick your lights at someone. That was just like something we knew.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Also, um, I don't know if it's lower down here to talk about, but like the internet wasn't a thing back then. No, and we as kids kids back in the day, just somehow all of these same stories. Traveled the world literally the continent or whatever you want to say. And we all knew about it.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

We all knew it. School by school by school. We all knew about it.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Maybe it's the mind power that we don't know about. The mind power. The mind power. Okay. So this legend began to take hold in the early 1990s.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Which yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Sure. Several factors contributed to its rapid spread. So we have the 1993 fax lore.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Does everyone know what a fax machine is? Digital printing. Digital being sent through the phone line. All right, go for it.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Fax machines, baby.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Also, they had the fun paper with like the little rip it. I loved it. Yeah, really good. And then it would be like almost like an accordion with the all one part.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

So in 1993, a memo began circulating via fax machines across the United States. It was written on what appeared to be official-looking letterhead, claiming the blood and the Crips, which I'm sure we've all heard of. Two gangs. Two gangs. This was one of the first major examples of a viral rumor before the internet was widely accessible.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

Just like you said. So, like, while there is no indication that this was actually a thing, that information was out there literally across the states, all Canada as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Wild. I love that it went viral through fax machines.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

So funny.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

Um, let's talk about email chains. Remember those little suckers? So the 1998 email chain.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Um side note, did you did you ever do them?

SPEAKER_03 23:41

Oh my god, of course. If I never started one, but if someone sent it to me and it was like, you're gonna have terrible, I'm like, I better send this.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

I would never. Really? I was like, whoever does this is an idiot. This is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Well, can't okay, how about this? Did you ever get handwritten ones? I don't think so. Started with handwritten email like note chains.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Did you?

SPEAKER_03 24:03

Yes. Chain letters, man. I don't really know. Literal, I must have handwritten chain letters that people would start in class when they're bored and give it to you, and it'd be like, you have to pass this on to a friend.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Oh maybe. I was weirdly thinking at home in the mail.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

But yeah, I just a chain letter, and you'd pass it along. Although I did have one, I did I think I did mail it to one of my friends to be a dick. Um, and then it moved to email and it was like, oh yeah, but I stopped like soon after. But again, we've talked about superstitions. I mean I'm a sucker for that shit, man.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah, true. So it happened. Um maybe this is why I don't have shit happen to me because I'm like, eh, this is stupid. Garbage. Garbage, mama.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

Um so as the internet became mainstream, the rumor transitioned into email chain letters, which is what we just discussed. So these emails added dramatic details, claiming the warning came from a friend of a friend of a friend of mine, uh, which happens so often in Herbal Legends. Oh, yeah. Who worked in a police department, allegedly.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Allegedly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Should we be saying that more often?

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Probably for this entire episode, you can just assume that everything we say is allegedly, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

For our lawyers' sake.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Which we should probably get.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Should we?

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

If there's any lawyers out there listening, hit us up.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Yeah. Pro bono though. I know, I know that all lawyers need to have at least one pro bono case.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

We do not mind being your pro bono case. Uh, okay, so we have a social media we're social.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Sure. Ugh.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Ugh. It really is.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

I mean, do we use it every day before this? Every day. Every day.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Um, so every few years, the story resurfaces on platforms like Facebook, Tiki Tac, or what on WhatsApp.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Apparently, people are messaging each other about it. Who knows?

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Oh, like chain letters on WhatsApp?

SPEAKER_03 25:50

Well, it's more so like information about this.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Fair. Right. Like a warning. Yeah. Um, often accompanied by warning that the ritual is happening specifically in the user's local city or neighborhood.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

Again. Hasn't happened to me.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

If I ever got a WhatsApp message saying like the bloods and the cribs or um why do I always go to this um? Yeah. The bloods and the cribs. You have to come alive. I right? I don't know. I was tired last year.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

Yeah, now you are up and at him. Um but yeah, no, great point. I don't know. I don't know. Who knows? Yeah. Social media though, right? So is it a mob or gang um initiation? Short answer is no. How? I'm like, no. Could it be though? Maybe, maybe at one point at the height of the 90s, they're like, all these stupid people think this. Who knows?

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Do we have any actual blood or crypt um um support on the?

SPEAKER_03 26:58

I don't know, but I was laughing because I thought you were gonna ask like, do we have any blood or crypt people listening?

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Are you out there? Um no, like any, like this is all just speculation. 100% speculation.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

I'm about to talk about what I think you're gonna ask me.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Okay. So hold. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

Don't pull a steam in. Extensive investigations by the FBI and the LP uh LAPD and other major police departments have found zero documented cases. Is that what you're gonna ask?

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Well, I was gonna ask if we had any confirmation from anyone in the blood circle.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Yeah, no, no, I don't know. Confirming or denying anyone you think I know anyone in that world. Um I don't know. But online in my again, light research, because like Urban Legends. Urban legends. There are no documented cases of this happening.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

Um, like zero. And I mean zero. Uh, that related um, you know, a gang initiation for someone flashing the headlights and they chase them down and kill them.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

So not gang related, but maybe horror.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

Who knows? I've zero documented cases of any murder from this at all. Why am I kind of disappointed? I don't know. What does that say about yourself? I know. That's some internal reflection you'll have to do. Um, so it comes down to practicality, specifically with gang initiations, allegedly. Gang initiations are generally internal and organized. Um, engaging in a high-profile random act of violence in traffic is quote bad for business.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

I mean, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:20

As it attracts like immediate and massive police attention. So they're not gonna do that because it'll just bring heat down. Totally fair. Not that I am a uh expert in gangs at all. Yeah, but this is just what I have found. Um, furthermore, like the lack of evidence, as we just discussed. So, in over the 30 years of this rumor circulating, there's never been verified police report connecting any random shooting or murder at all to driver flashing their lights. And of course, there's the whole safety element or safety paradox, really. Police often engage drivers to flash their lights to warn others of hazards like deer or accidents, which I do. If there's a deer on the road, I'm like, like I do it a million times because then people are like, oh, there's something ahead. Something's it also is like, hey, there's a cop up there.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Well, that's the only instance I know I've ever had anyone flash their lights at me. There's a cop coming? Is that there's a cop coming?

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

I had it happen the other day. Oh, well, there you go. Like a 10 cars in a row. I'm like, thanks, guys!

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is very nice. You're like, thank you. Yeah. Um, so finally, you know, if this were a real gang ritual, the frequency of attacks would be astronomically. Ah, true. It would just happen all the time. So that's true. It's just not a thing.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Okay. Wamp won.

SPEAKER_03 29:33

Why the legend persists so so why the legend persists.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Yeah. Uh so this story is a classic cautionary tale. Urban legends often thrive because they play on a universal fear. Makes sense. Um, the idea that a small, kind gesture trying to help another driver can lead to catastrophic violent outcomes.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

Which is why, like, not a lot of people stop anymore. Yeah. It used to be such a thing. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Stop hikers.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

Yes. Oh my God. So not a thing anymore. Yeah. Probably still maybe in Newfoundland. I feel like Newfoundland used to like get that kind of help a lot. Yeah. But like I will stop many times. And it's funny, like, sometimes when I stop and they're like, hey, are you okay? They look at you like you're an idiot. And you're like, I'm fine.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

You're like, Wait, you stop?

SPEAKER_03 30:14

I've stopped. Oh yeah. Especially if it's like blatantly they're just standing around and like their wheel is off or something.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Am I a horrible hurt her her? Am I a horrible human being?

SPEAKER_03 30:26

No, not at all. It's 100% like, do you think you can help? So, for example, like the people who I saw standing around, I'm like, I didn't see a phone in their hands. They don't have a phone or something going on. Nowadays, everyone has a phone. Everyone. In fact, where was I driving recently? Was I with my boss? I don't remember. But I was driving and I thought, what is happening here? There were people that were parked on the side of an on-ramp to a highway and they were physically standing in the middle of the on-ramp, flagging people down.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

That's insane.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

And I was like, What? Why would a bad decision? Yeah. Just bad decision where to stop, bad decision to stand in the middle of the on-ramp.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

But also there were three people in the car. How do none of you have cell phones? Yeah. If that's in fact what was happening. Why were you flagging other drivers down? To me, that screams like taking situation. Oh yeah. So the use your head, you know what I mean? But if there's like someone like, oh, or if they're like, I don't know, looking wistful or whatever, there's no I will stop. But a couple of times people are like, I'm fine. You're like, fuck my car, then. Like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Like, well, because I just I just think of what's the road um out in BC. It's like a uh the popular highway out there, but it's been dubbed like I don't I the killer or murder highway because the hitchhikers and people walking along or people stopping, like people would be picked up and killed all the time. I have no idea, but clearly we need to. We need to talk about that because I'm I'm forgetting the name of it. Um but it's a thing. Well, well, hey, it's a terrible world we live in. Humans suck now. Humans suck. I mean, they've always sucked, but fair enough.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Uh let's move on. So another urban legend that I have we have always heard, I have always now this did not um this never came up in my life because this has never happened to me ever. Okay. But the rumor going around my school too, when we got to like driving and like people like coupling up and like having first boyfriends or whatever, um, or girlfriends, the hook man.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

The hook man. Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

So the story of the hook again, you have a great one. I will tell my version that made around my school was if you were like hitting up a Lover's Lane situation with your boyfriend or girlfriend.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

I was not that cool.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Same. This has I can't stress this enough, never happened to me. That has never been a situation I've ever been in. Anyway, um, the cool kids were out on Lover's Lane, yeah, making out, you know, as kids do. And the story would essentially go like you'd hear like scraping on the car, and be like, what's that? And be like, no, no, nothing. Like, you know, inevitably it'd be the guy being like, it's nothing, baby. Whatever. That's true. And then it would keep happening, keep happening, and like scary things would happen. And it was just, you know, they'd be like, let's just go, let's just, let's just leave. And they turn on the car, and of course the lights would illuminate, and there'd be a hook, like a death, scary hook. Death hook. A death hook, you know, the ones hanging from the tree or on the hood of the car, or like hanging from the door handle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Or like in the tire. Yes. Or like there's so many different things.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

Yeah, that's what I always heard of like, watch out for the hook man, like he'll get you.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

But yours is so much more in depth and way scarier.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Yeah. So I remember hearing maybe, maybe it's from a movie, but I'm it's from this legend.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Pop culture everywhere for sure. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

So I remember hearing, again, Lover's Lane, they're making out, having sex in the backseat. Um, they hear something out and about in the woods. Sure. Um, so usually again, it's the boyfriend who's like, I'm a man, I'm gonna go check it out. So he goes out, and then the girlfriend, um, or I guess whoever.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

I mean, listen, again, it was the nineties. It was the nineties, so it was a boy and a girl. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Uh so the girlfriend hears something, she's in the conversation.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Not to say that, you know, queer people didn't exist in the nineties.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 34:13

I was straight back then.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Thank you, thank you. That was good, that's good. Way to lighten it.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Um But no, it like uh she hears the they hear something in the backseat.

unknown 34:25

Billy!

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Bill, it's always Billy. Always Billy. Always Billy. Um I lost it. No, no, yeah. She she so he goes out and um and then uh doesn't come back. She stops hearing things, it kind of goes quiet. Um, so usually she'll get out of the car because like he has the keys or something. Yeah, she has something.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

But wasn't it like scratching on the top?

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Oh, that's what it was. So she uh they would hear scratching like on the roof. Yeah. On the roof. Freaky. Freaky freaky. So she finally works up the courage to go out and check, and she like walks a little uh far, and then she turns around and she sees the car, and then she looks up, and the boyfriend's dead body is hanging from a tree above the car, and his feet are dragging on the top of the car.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

And that's the scary sound that she hears, and he's ripped open from the hook.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Ripped open from the hook.

unknown 35:19

Crazy.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Which is a way better story.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Way better. Yours is way more intense than mine. What was going on in Highland? I don't know. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Or that could have just been my imagination. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

Stephen was like, I don't get invited to go make out in people's cars. I'm gonna make up this story. You're the reason it exists. You started the hookman story because no one would invite you to. I love me some gossip. Uh yeah. Well, very good. So um, we already talked about that. Yeah, essentially it was just always about secluded spots and the vulnerability of young couples, which is like totally a thing. Yeah. But why don't you tell us a little bit about the origins? Well again, allegedly.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

Allegedly. I'm intrigued by this because I don't really know where this one comes from. So the legend is actually a product of post-World War II Americana. Sure. Uh, though its roots go deeper. In 1950s, scares, the story gained massive popularity in the mid-1950s. This coincided with the rise of car culture and parking. Parking and necking. Parking and necking. Um, as a uh social activity for teenagers. Yeah. Social activity. Um it acted as a morality tale designed to discourage premarital intimacy by associating it with extreme danger. Right? No sex, or you'll be murdered.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

So, like maybe the church made it up.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Honestly. I would not be shocked.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

Right? You never know. Um, let's talk about the Dear Abbey letter. Dear Abbey, yeah, can you remember? Oh my god. Yeah, yeah. So the legend was solidified in the public consciousness when a reader wrote to the famous advice columnist, Abigail Van Bruen, or of course Dear Abbey, yeah, um, in 1960, recounting the story as if it were in fact a real event that happened to a friend. So, like it could have been reported as a real event, and then that being a very popular column, people were like, This happened. Yeah. Because of course, now people are a little, not a little, way more skeptical of the news, which in my line of work is terrible. That sucks for us, but it it's true. It's just people second guess what they read. Back then, what was written in the newspaper was it? That was it. So you never know. Um, and let's kind of cover quickly true crime influence. So folklore experts often point to the, I'm not gonna say this right at all, Texacar, Texarcana. Texarcana. Texarcana. Where is Texarcana? What is that?

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Uh is it like Texas, Arkansas? Oh, interesting. Texarcana.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Those moonlight murders, which I know nothing about, from 1946 as a possible real world inspiration. So at that point, a hooded killer did target couples parked in cars, creating a lasting atmosphere of lover's lane paranoia because that actually happened. It did happen. That actually apparently happened.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Wow. Yeah. Didn't know anything about it. That would make sense that that was.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

So the hook man has become a staple of the slasher genre. I mean, um, yeah. Keep reading every time. Um, it was the primary inspiration for the villain in the 1997 film I Know What You Did Last Summer.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

What are you waiting for? Talk about Volcus. I I yell that all the time.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Of course you do. Yeah. I love it. You do actually. What are you waiting for? Um it has also appeared in various forms and in shows like Supernatural and American Horror Story.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Supernatural is my one of my top five shows.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Can I admit something? You've never seen it. No, I started watching it. I think I got how many. There are 15 seasons. 15 seasons. I feel like I maybe got five seasons in. That's pretty respectable. And then remember when I did my Euro trip? Yes, I do. I went away and then I came back, and I don't think I had access to watch it anymore or something. And I kind of just I was I got so behind on it. Fizzled out, yeah. And there's so much to it that it was a lot to catch up on.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

This was also at the height of, you know, for the young children who are listening, and I hope you all know I don't mean children. When I say that, I mean literally anyone who's below 38 years old and more than 18. Um, this was a time where you had to clear your schedule on Thursday nights at 8 p.m.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Thursday was the night.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

It was the night. You watched all of your programs. Programs? There was no such thing as streaming. There was no such thing as I remember when one of my rich friends got a um what was it? TVO. T T well, we called it something different. Tivo was big in the States, but it was like D VR. D uh yeah. Yeah. Record it was that's what TiVo was.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

But it was the rich people.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

It was the rich people only. Yeah. And you would record it, and it was like, that is insane to me. What sort of sorcery is this? Yeah. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

These were the good old days. Oh God, don't get me started. I I know I love binging shit on streaming, but it's not really the greatest to do. And I miss having the ritual of like Thursday night TV or like you would plan your week so that you could be home. I mean, quick side tangent. Thursday night was also Survivor Night.

SPEAKER_03 40:26

Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

That's right. And I was in Scouts and I remember that was when obviously I was Scout, so how old is that? Like 16 and 18 between that area. Uh my parents, we we set up this thing with scouts that I had always I they had to have known this was fake, but we always had a family emergency on Thursday nights, and they would come and pick me up from Scouts so that we could get home in time to watch uh Survivor together.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

It was so cute. I love it. And like, let's teach scouts the power of lying. Yeah. Important lesson. Important lesson. I love it. But um no, legit. It was a thing. So supernatural, when I was dating my ex-boyfriend Reese, he and I would go over to his best friends and we watch it every Thursday. Yeah. That's like literally a thing that we do. Should I have out it is I don't care. I think you listen. Hello. Um, it was great. Yeah. It was just a wonderful time to be alive.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

It really was. It was a better time.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

But if you if I may say so, um, like feel free to dive back into supernatural. I'm re-watching it now. I do I re-watch it every year.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

It's just I have so many things I want to re-watch though. Yeah, yeah. And I'm in this weird phase right now where I'm not really watching a lot of TV.

SPEAKER_03 41:39

Well, it's also the cusp of summertime. Like, I want to be watching TV. Exactly. But it happens from time to time.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

So um uh where were we? We were right here. Uh so it remains a faux-of. So a faux-up story. Friend of a friend. That's the one. I like it. Um everyone seems to know someone who knows someone it actually happened to. Yeah. Uh what was it? Um Spooky uh what's the show? Um Freaky Friday. Freaky, Freaky Friday.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, not Freaky Friday. It was Freaky Stories.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Freaky Stories. Right?

SPEAKER_03 42:14

That was it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

The little cockroach guy.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it happened to a friend or a friend of mine.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Um Freaky Stories was a great show. I love that program. So good. Anyway, yeah. So so someone who knows someone who it actually happened to, but no official police reports of a hooked hand killer left on a door handle has ever been found. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

Exactly. So let's get to this one. This one's wild as well.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Which one's this one?

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

Aren't you glad you didn't turn on the light? So I'm gonna riff on this one too. Please do. Okay. So this kind of has become like a campus legend one. So a little bit older. So like we still heard about it in middle school and high school of like, oh my god, this is what's happening in college. That's crazy. So the whole story that I know essentially goes so there are two roommates. Yeah. Okay. They're in college. They're it's not like a two separate bedroom situation. It is one room where one single bed and one single bed across the floor.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

That's Dan's university was like that.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

That is my literal nightmare.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Oh, me too. Thankfully, I was separate rooms.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

Well, I mean, I didn't get res, I didn't, I got waitlisted for the res because Sheridan had the stupidest, smallest res building ever.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Fair. Um, so I forgot we both went to Sheridan. Different campuses.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

Different campuses. Um, but I got my wonderful apartment with my roommate Janet, who I love. Hello, Janet. I know you're listening. Um, anyways, okay, back to this. So unlike my wonderful experience where I loved my roommate and she was a delight and we had fun. This legend revolves around two people who do not like each other. It's usually two women, two girls. I hated my roommates. Oh, that sucks.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

I had two different ones because I switched halfway through the year. Because I was so bad.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Well, anyway, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

Yeah. Could stem from something like that. Yeah. Um, so the story goes that one roommate was always um You know, um, not respectful of the other roommate. Right. So the one would always like, you know, creep in quietly, keep the light off, you know, keep their side of the room clean, not have guests over, not, you know, if if there was something that she could do to keep her roommate happy, she would do it.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:18

On the flip side, the other roommate would not care. She'd have guests over. She'd play loud music when the other one was sleeping. She was just someone who's an inconsiderate beer. Correct. And so the story goes that uh the the considerate roommate walked in one night to their dorm and it was dark and she didn't want to turn on the light because it could be, you know, her other roommate was sleeping. But she also heard her roommate having sex with her partner. A lot of bed squeaking, a lot of muffled sounds, and she was like, Oh my God, are you kidding me? You knew I was coming home, and here you are doing it with your boyfriend. Doing the dance. So she just went straight to bed, plugged her ears, or, you know, I've also heard like put her headphones on and fell asleep. Yeah. In the morning, she rolls over, wakes up, and sees her roommate completely disemboweled, bloodied, and written on the wall in blood, it says, Aren't you glad you didn't turn on the light?

SPEAKER_00 45:15

Oof. Do you imagine? Terrifying.

SPEAKER_03 45:18

Right. Of course, eliciting the idea of, oh my gosh, this person wasn't having sex. She was being viciously murdered as I walked in on it. Crazy. So that's the story I heard.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

Yeah, that's the one I heard. That's exactly it. So good.

SPEAKER_03 45:32

It's good. It's scary. It makes for excellent TV. In fact, Supernatural does do an episode of that. Do they? They do an Urban Legends episode where it's this, the Hookman, and I don't remember what I have seen that one. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

But it was one of the earlier ones.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so let's get into the origins and evolution of this. Um, while it's impossible, again, to pinpoint like a single first occurrence of this story, um, folklore experts have tracked the rise through several stages. So let's go back to the 60s. Okay. The campus boom, if you will. Um, the legend exploded in popularity during the 1960s. This was a decade of massive growth for universities and colleges.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:08

Um, and of course, a shift in social norms, the 60s, right? Oh, yeah. Drugs, fun, a little bit more open.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

Um, the story reflected the fear of the stranger in the house and the vulnerability of living in shared semi-public spaces like dormitories. So it's like someone was supposed to be having the time of their life, and something terrible and horrific happens and takes their sort of safety and security away.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

The call is coming from inside the house.

unknown 46:32

They're calling from inside the house.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

So good. So in the 1950s, there was the hatchet man rumors. Sure. So some folklorists believe the story evolved from the earlier legends about the hatchet man, a boogeyman-like figure said to haunt various campuses in the mid-20th century.

SPEAKER_03 46:51

There you go. Could come from that.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Yeah. Um, then we have media propaganda. Sure. So, like many urban legends, it reached a massive audience through the Deer Abbey advice book. Again. Dear Abbey was pushing some school. Um, that was in the early 1970s and was later analyzed extensively by Jan Harold Brunnwend.

SPEAKER_03 47:13

Sure. I believe it's Jan. Jan Harold Brunland.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

That makes more sense.

SPEAKER_03 47:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Jan. Um, the preeminent scholar of urban legends in his book The Vanishing Hitchhiker from 1981.

SPEAKER_03 47:24

Which we kind of talked about as well, and I really want to read.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Yeah, I would want to too.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

Yeah. Um so there is no evidence that this specific message on the wall event ever happened. However, the legend gained a dark second life after the real life crimes of Ted Bundy in 1978. We all know Ted.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

Not good.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

Not good. Um, when he attacked the uh Chi Chai Omega house Chi Omega sorority house at Florida State University. Because he moved through the house at night attacking sleep at sleeping women, the dormitory killer transitioned from a campfire story into a terrifying reality for a generation of students.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

Yeah, like that happened. Like you know, he literally killed, like, I think he attacked, I can't get my numbers right. He either attacked a house of five women and four survived.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 48:15

Or it was six women and two survived. I don't remember the exact specifics, but like he went on a rampage and just went. And that was unlike his other MO, where it was just one woman that he would actually take. Right. He escalated. Actually, there's um oh man, there's so much about Ted Bull. Maybe we'll do it. Serial killers. Serial killers. Um the story kind of goes like the cops figure that he actually was rejected and couldn't take the woman, and he was so angry that he just like unleashed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Unreal.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

So But the whole like sorority campus um what's the guy version? Um not sorority. Frat house? Frat house, like all of that, the murders in the campus, and oh, that was such a thing.

SPEAKER_03 49:01

Oh man. Because it was like, and when you're talking about stories, like, of course, how per we see it now, you know? Like it starts with I know what you did last summer. Scream, like it's always a sorority house, or anyway.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

Um classics.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

So let's talk about the kidney thieves, okay? So this one is like you always kind of flippantly say, like, I don't want to wake up in a bathtub with my kidney missing, right? So, like, where did that come from?

SPEAKER_01 49:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

So this has been called one of the most successful and enduring urban uh legends or myths in history. Okay. Take that for what you will. Um, it is a classic organ theft sort of narrative that's evolved from the whispered rumor into a global phenomenon, often fueled by actual anxieties about medical technology and international crime. Yeah. Like the black market for organs is just I feel like you always hear about it. Always.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

I feel like it's it's a thing. I mean, I think it's a thing.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

There are so speaking of your conspiracy theories, like if you want to go down that hole, it's wild. It's wild.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

There are people. I haven't gone down that hole.

SPEAKER_03 50:01

Yeah, it's wild. I don't know, but it's wild.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Um so the story typically follows a business traveler or a tourist at a bar, a charming stranger buys them a drink, which is spiked, which I mean. Yeah. Um the victim wakes up hours later in a hotel bathtub filled with ice. There's a phone nearby with a note that says, call 911 or you will die.

SPEAKER_03 50:27

At least a considerate. At least a considerate.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Helpful note. They're not just leaving them to die. I mean, they mean kind of if you don't make the call. Yeah. Um, upon reaching the hospital, the victim discovers that one or both of their kidneys has been surgically removed with professional precision to be sold on the black market for organ transplants.

SPEAKER_03 50:48

But if you lose both your kidneys, wouldn't you die like pretty quick? That's what I would have.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you would die pretty quick. But how wild would that be?

SPEAKER_03 50:56

Wild story. And again, it's like everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

So let's talk about origins and evolution. So while rumors of body snatching go back centuries, the modern version of the kidney thief emerged in the late 1980s. Okay. Um, so let's talk about Latin American origins. Um, early versions of the legend circulated in Central and South America, often involving baby parts or child theft. Ooh, for organs. These stories reflected real-world fears that uh regarding the exploitation of the poor by wealthy Westerners and like let's move into the 90s. So the traveler variant, right? The legend that we, as we know it today, where it's the bathtub and the ice and the bar, um, solidified in the United States around 1991. It was heavily propagated through early internet news groups and fax machines. Again, so people will be like, look out, everyone on a business trip. So funny. Sending faxes and emailing about like, don't take drinks from strangers. You might end up in a bathtub full of ice.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

Yeah. Crazy. Which I mean is a good rule to live by. Sure. Good rule of thumb to that.

SPEAKER_03 52:00

Um, and then the 1997 internet explosion again when it pops off, a highly detailed email chain letter went viral. It claimed that the Texas Department of Public Safety was issuing a warning about travelers being targeted. So, like apparently this actually happened. The email was so convincing that the Texas DPS had to issue an official statement denying that they were responsible. So, like while that letter went out, it wasn't in fact them at all. It was just someone being like, be on the lookout.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Or it was someone in that department who knew something was happening, but they didn't want to be attached to the phone. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_03 52:36

They were a whistleblower, but they didn't want to be a whistleblower when they started the rumor.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

Yeah. Wow. Um so okay. While this story is terrifying, medical professionals have repeatedly pointed out why this specific scenario is a surgical fantasy. Yeah. Surgical fantasy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:54

It just can't happen.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

It can't happen. So the complexity of transplant. Yes. Organ transplantation requires a massive team of specialists, sterile environments, and highly specific equipment. It cannot be done precisely in a hotel bath.

SPEAKER_03 53:10

Like you Is it just a random knife with a guy? Sorry, to gender, but like I envision it's a guy who's just like, I think it's here, and then like stabs you in the back.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

But what if I mean what if it's a really good professional doctor surgeon?

SPEAKER_03 53:27

Well, so this we haven't talked about it yet.

SPEAKER_00 53:29

A doctor surgeon, you know.

SPEAKER_03 53:30

One of those doctor surgeons. Uh, we haven't talked about it yet, but like the black dahlia is huge evidence that whoever committed that crime was a surgeon. Yeah. Because the lame person would not know how to cut something out of a body as well as they did in that specific case. Um, but for this one, I mean, like again, I guess you could be right, Steven. I feel like it could. I guess it could. I guess it could happen.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

Maybe not surgically put back together and then left in a bathtub. Like you it might be messier.

SPEAKER_03 54:04

Oh, so and like my thing too is like there was never in this urban legend like the discussion of like what the room looked like. So like it would be a bloody mess everywhere. Yeah. Um I digress.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

Um so also a random kidney is useless for sure, sure, sure. The donor and recipient must have matching blood types and tissue markers to prevent immediate rejection. Like, that is the other thing.

SPEAKER_03 54:29

That is the other thing. Like, you can't just be like, hey, I got a kidney, he wants it.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:32

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 54:33

And how long do they last outside of a body? Like you could maybe uh have it in storage and then they wait until they do find the perfect donor on the black market or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 54:44

I don't I again that's why. I'm trying to make sense of it, but I'm like That's why I so don't believe that this happens.

SPEAKER_00 54:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:50

I just so don't believe that it happens. But I mean, hey, maybe you never know.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

Um so while ice is used to transport organs, sitting a living person in a bathtub of ice would likely clause hypothermia. Sure. Or you would go into shock long before it preserved an internal organ. Also, you've just gone through massive um surgery. You've been you've been cut open.

SPEAKER_03 55:17

Your blood the blood loss, you'd be dead in it. You'd be dead.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

And you're you're being put in a non-sterile ice bathtub. Yes. That's gonna cause major infection.

SPEAKER_03 55:26

Big problems. Big problems with this urban legend.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Big problem. Big problems. Because there has been none with the other ones.

unknown 55:33

That's a great thing.

SPEAKER_00 55:34

I don't know why we got really into that.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

So, like, this is not true. Hookman, maybe. Maybe. Flashing the lights, sure. This one, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 55:44

Hell no.

SPEAKER_03 55:45

So the legend became so pervasive that it was used as a plot point in numerous TV shows and movies, most notably Law and Order, The X-Files, and of course the actual movie called Urban Legend, which came out in 1998, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:58

I want to rewatch that one actually.

SPEAKER_03 55:59

100%. So despite decades of debunking um by the National Kidney Foundation, like this is this this blows my mind. Um, and police departments globally, there's never been a single verified case of a person being drugged in a bar and waking up in a bathtub missing a kidney or two.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

Yeah. Just hasn't happened. Maybe in a hostel in Europe. I don't know.

unknown 56:19

You never know.

SPEAKER_03 56:20

You never know. We're just here to tell you what we've heard. Yeah. Happen to a friend of a friend of mine.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Um full off. Full off. Full off.

SPEAKER_03 56:30

So of course there are so many different urban legends. Um let's talk about, let's just quickly sort of rhyme off ones that we've also heard of. And Steven, you thought of a great one last night when we were going through Burlington on the train. Yes. So if anyone's from the Burlington area, do you remember what ultimately started as an urban legend and kind of ended up being kind of true?

SPEAKER_01 56:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:52

So the urban legend um essentially goes there used to be a huge cold storage building, which to my recollection was for apples.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 57:01

Okay. It was where they moved a lot of the apples for transportation to the food terminals in Toronto, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 57:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:08

And this it was at um the corner, it was in Aldershaw at the where you get off at um Waterdown Road to go into Burlington off of the 403. And it was a huge yellow building. And um I would drive by it every single day because we would go to my grandparents who lived over there. Yeah. And the story goes that they they being the the they, the cops, whoever, um, got a tip that there were body parts being stored in this cold storage place and that like someone had a massive pile of body parts. And guess what? Apparently that happened. So the story that I heard goes that they discovered all these body parts being kept in the cold storage room, and that it allegedly, I don't know if this is true, but the person who was responsible for that worked at the City Morgue in Burlington and was collecting pieces of bodies. So it wasn't that he was sawing them off, it would be like someone came in and there was a dismemberment situation. Okay, and he would steal body parts. Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Yeah. Frankenstein style.

SPEAKER_03 58:18

Like that's wild. That's wild. But that was like the biggest.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

Like, what was he gonna do with it? I don't wanna know. I don't wanna know. Was it like uh no?

SPEAKER_03 58:26

I'm gonna do a quick Google. You never know. Um, I look so weird when I try and type like this. Um, do you remember hearing that?

SPEAKER_00 58:34

Yeah, oh uh yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 58:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

Uh it's creepy, man.

SPEAKER_03 58:43

It's creepy. Yeah, I don't know. Although I will say this there is an alarming number of cold storage human remains being found. Really? Cold storage across the globe.

SPEAKER_00 58:57

That's creepy. That's wild. Maybe it's like, what's his face? Remember that gay serial killer who like would sever a hand and then jerk off with it.

SPEAKER_03 59:06

What?

SPEAKER_00 59:07

You don't remember that.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

Are you talking about Dahmer? No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 59:10

This was a Canadian thing. He was like a gay guy in like was it Montreal or Are you talking about Bruce MacArthur in Toronto? Nope. Montreal, you know. He was actually like a like a hot guy.

SPEAKER_03 59:19

Luca Magnata?

SPEAKER_00 59:20

Maybe that's what I'm thinking. That sounds familiar.

SPEAKER_03 59:22

He was the one who like started killing cats and like filmed it online. Yeah. Because there was don't fuck with cats. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Luca Magnotta. He started killing, yeah. Well, he actually had a book out unreal pronunciation.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

But yeah, wasn't he like filming that?

SPEAKER_03 59:38

I he was filming himself dismembering, unfortunately, his symptom.

SPEAKER_00 59:43

I can't remember if it was in the documentary. Uh my when I'm not gonna say where it was, but one of my old jobs, we were all very into weird shit like that. Sure, sure it came out that yeah, he w chopped off the guy's hand and started like jerking off with it. So if there's a shit ton of cold store, just remember things, maybe more people have sexual kinks than uh that's oh I hate it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:09

Let's move on.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:10

Let's move on. I'm sorry I went down that path. I really do apologize. But it just that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

I mean, yeah. Wild. I also I also hate that I just listed off so many killers that I just I hate it. I love that I know that, but I hate that I know that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Um it does kind of I don't want to say go hand in hand with like weird whims, not whimsical, but weird seranormal bizarre shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:33

Yeah, it's just true crime, man. It's just I just because I could never relate. Fair. Fair. Um, okay, let's move on. So speaking of gross people, uh this is perfect. Perfect. I do not like this person at all, but Marilyn Manson, who of course has come out as like not a good person at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:51

Um, but does everyone remember this urban legend? I'm sure you can all where we're going with this in like I think I was grade five or grade six. We were young. Too young to know what this meant or what it was. And I'll not be graphic, but like, does everyone remember the rumor about him removing a rib to be able to do a specific act on himself? Yeah. How did we all know about it?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

We everyone knew about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:14

Everyone knew about it. And again, rumor, probably. The rumor. But also, now that we know what we know about Marilyn Manson, who knows?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:21

Who knows?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:21

Who knows? But um, I looked online, yeah. No, like apparently there's no claims to that at all. But how did we all know that at that young age in the schools that we were in, and everybody just knew about it?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

It's so true. Wild. It's so true.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:33

Wild Urban Legends.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:34

Um, another one we had was I'm sure you guys remember this one.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:38

Much more innocent of this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:39

Much more innocent, sort of. Um Pop Rocks and Coke.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

And Coca-Cola. Coca-Cola, not a couple of things. Pop rocks and Coca-Cola.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

Uh, if you obviously ingested both at the same time, your stomach would explode.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:53

Yeah. Like, how did who these are one of the we're just riffing. So like I did not look that up. Who came up with that? Who came up with that?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

It's funny because shout out to my brother. So Dave and Scott get each other pop rocks and coke for their birthday all the time. I don't know if they still do it. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:10

Clearly, they still are with us. So like they're not exploding exploding stomachs.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:13

I don't know. Dave's had a lot of issues. Maybe that explains it. Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:17

Sweetie. Um, so sticking with stomach stuff. I don't know why all this. I guess once I wrote about that, yeah. The next two were like, well, um, did anyone like when I was a child, like a small little innocent baby child, my parents were always like, Don't eat the watermelon seeds because it'll grow in your tummy. Yeah. That was also like a big urban legend.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:38

Any sort of seed.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:39

Any seed and then it would start to grow.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:41

And then of course this one too.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

So yeah. So sticking with the stomach. So if you had gum and you swallowed it, it would stay in your stomach for seven years.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:49

Yeah. Who, what? Why?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:51

Why? Don't know. Why is it always seven years? Everything is seven. We talked about this.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:56

We generate, yes, yes. The Romans believed that you also generated.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:59

How is it gonna stay in your stomach? You're gonna poop it out.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:01

I totally agree. I don't know if it was like, yeah, again, it's all about control and fear, right? Like, do not swallow that gum because it'll stay in your stomach. Or like what was the um don't make that face or it'll freeze that way. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, yeah. These are just lessons that our parents did to us to cause fear and anxiety. Yeah. Look at us now. We're fine. Um adjusted. We're totally fine. Any other thoughts on urban legends?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:27

Uh I feel like there's just so much more.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:30

There are so many. If you have an urban legend that you want us to review or want to share, send it in because we are going to do a listener email session. Um, as I mentioned at the top of this episode. And that's actually a great point. It doesn't have to be like a story. You can you can just say, like, hey, what about this urban legend?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:47

Um, write in. If you would like to participate, please do. We want to do it soon. So email us at weirdoswimsy weirdoswimsy at gmail.com. Thank you very much. Or just slide into our DMs on any of our platforms. Slide into our DMs. Because yeah, we wanna we wanna do like an interactive, like little listener email sesh. Um Okay, well, thank you so much for listening and watching another episode of Weirdos of Whimsy. We'll be back again soon with another episode that guides you through the weird and whimsical journey that is our brains. Be sure to follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at Weirdos of Whimsy Pod. Watch that space for updates, release dates, and other delectable. Oh sorry, see I screwed up again. Other treats and delectable morsels. Say goodbye, Stevie.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:33

Goodbye, everybody. Don't have sex in the backseat. Watch out for the hook, man. Would literally never be a problem for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:40

Um, and as always, big gulps, eh? Well, see ya later.