EP#39-From Drone Mapping To The Punk Rock Museum -Brandon Ray Henderson Part 2

A $70,000 laser scanner sounds like a reckless purchase until the phone starts ringing. We sit down with Brandon Ray Henderson, a Coachella Valley entrepreneur and the founder behind Raiden Concepts and Drone Scope Mapping, to unpack how he went from early uncertainty to building a fast-growing reality capture business that delivers point clouds, CAD-ready documentation, and decision-making clarity for venues, hotels, and construction teams. 

We talk through the real mechanics of modern laser scanning and LiDAR work: why drones are powerful outdoors but hit a wall indoors, how handheld SLAM scanning compares to high-end terrestrial scanners, and what changes when clients finally see accurate existing conditions instead of outdated CAD files. Brandon shares lessons from scanning spaces like JW Marriott, moving into virtual tours with Matterport, and partnering with CAD production support so the workflow stays fast, consistent, and scalable. 

Pricing gets candid. Brandon explains why he charges for outcomes, not hours, how complexity beats square footage as a pricing signal, and what to do when a client thinks “that looked too easy.” We also dig into VDC site documentation, the fine line between mapping and regulated surveying, and how he responds when the industry pushes back by building partnerships to do it the right way. 

If you’re building a services business around specialized tools, this conversation is packed with hard-earned tactics on risk, networking, positioning, and scaling. Subscribe, share this with a founder friend, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Transcript

Cold Open And Quick Tease

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Fresh tweet, dancering dreams unplugged it. Stock stuff, that's what digital unflide it. Organic plates, stamina over T Raw. Keep it authentic, everything you see raw.

Meet Brandon And His Businesses

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Welcome back, everybody, to Stevie Hustle, the podcast where we talk to the best and brightest entrepreneurs in the Coachella Valley. Today's special guest is a jack of all trades. He's a musician. He owns two companies, Raiden Concepts and Drone Scope Mapping. Mr. Brandon Ray Henderson. Thank you for coming in, man.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

So that was our first like real gig, and it was awesome. And I remember I didn't really know how to price it.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

But who paid you, the vintage or him?

SPEAKER_02 0:45

No, the uh yeah. So that was the thing too. Is like I I thought that you know vintage was my client, and it kind of turned into well, they're just gonna take the whole contract and like they're gonna pay you now, and like whatever. Yeah, and it worked out fine. They're really nice guys. We've done a couple more things for them since. Um, but I was like, dude, like we made it, like, yes, like we fucking we're gonna pay this gear off soon, it's gonna be great.

Buying Gear Before Having Clients

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Um no, we're it was like that ten thousand dollar. The first well, so now we're like forty-five thousand dollars in or almost fifty grand in on this thing, and everyone's like, Cool, who are your clients? I don't have any clients. What do you mean? Like, not yet. I don't have those yet. But the fact that I have this shit now and I can be like, yeah, I flex it, you know, and really start shopping it around. Like, I'm gonna find people.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

If you want to come do mine and test mine, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Oh, we're you're welcome. We're so far beyond that now. But um but if but beyond it. But next time you get a new place, and I will, I'll be lightning fast at like helping you with the pre-planning. Like you'll you'll be like shocked at how much better it is now. And like cool box. Um, yeah, so I think Q1 of uh our first year in business was 25 or 24. 2025.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Okay, um you just start at the end of 24 with this, right? That's a relatively yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

So 2025 is our first year in business, and uh dude, I think like we started, but we bought more shit. Like we were like 80 grand in on equipment now, and I think we only made like 10 in three months, and I was fucking horrified, dude. I was so bummed. I was like, oh, what are we doing? Like, I was just gonna like wipe everything off the table and like move to Mexico. It's like we're we're fucking we're out of here, guys. It didn't work out. We tried, tell my family I loved them. Um, yeah, really bummed. And then April hit, and I had you know, I'm like countless lines in the water. I was on the phone for three months, like, dude, I'm doing this new thing, doing this new thing, doing this new thing, and everyone's like, that's awesome, can't wait to use it. And I was like, When like, yeah, sure, like like let's go.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

And well, they probably couldn't even understand. Like when you told me to on my own.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Yeah, it it's it's not like brand new, like people have been kind of doing what we're doing for a minute, but it's a very, very underserved market. Um, in some other things, yeah, actually. Um, I want there's a few softwares I want to develop. I've turned into the into this like man, and we'll get to get there in a minute, assuming we have time. I want to develop multiple softwares. Um, and one of them has to do with tiles, actually. Ohfering solutions for uh material counts and and layout and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Hey, but you know what? Fabrication add-ons keep me in business, I swear to god.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

But uh we should we should talk about that later for sure. Um let's do that. So I had all these lines in the water, right? And finally, I mean, eventually you're gonna get some bites. Well, April hit of 25, and I took off. Like, I think we made like 30 grand in just that month.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

Nice, okay. So I was like, okay, thank god, like we're getting a profitability, we're getting a profitable.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

We're my big thing was like, let's me and Bruce agreed, let's pay off the gear. Like, let's not even pay ourselves. Like, let's just luckily we had our own businesses. He has uh he does like video editing and okay. Um he'll go out and film shit. Like he'll film, like he sets up all this stuff, man. He'll he'll do this. Like, he's got all the gear, he's great. Um so we weren't like totally leaning on drone scope mapping, you know, for income. But yeah, we had just like spent all this money on all this equipment, and we were like, wow, I was really scared. Dude, we're at like we're like 150 plus now equipment now. It just keeps going. Um but we're you know, it's paying for itself. So did pretty started doing pretty good in like Q2. It really ramped up and summer hit last year, and I was like, you know, like the the drone thing's cool and all, but it did kind of get hot, you know, and we're like, if we're not doing shit out of town, like there's not much to do here.

When Drones Cannot Go Indoors

SPEAKER_02 4:56

And I I just started well, I'm still doing my 3D thing, so and I'm doing these big spaces, so I'm like, well, bro, like we can't fucking bring the drones inside. So we bought a little hand scanner and it looks like a alien zapper. It's so funny. I I gotta show you a picture of it. Um, it's cool. Yeah, it's a little hand scanner thing, and it's it stands for slam. It's it's called a slam scanner, it stands for simultaneous localization and mapping. Um, we'd cruise around with this thing and it'd fucking scan the whole space. And then uh we learned pretty quick, like, yeah, that data is like kind of noisy. It's not it's not uh it's not amazing, but it's better than nothing. Well, it's better than that terrestrial scanning. I'm like, dude, I rented one of those back in 2021. Remember that fucking thing? Yeah, yeah. Um I should I wish we could show pictures of these things as I'm talking.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah, Danny can. Danny can do that. He'll look it up.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Cool. He's uh he's the yeah, I can send you the yeah. Anyway, um, so we started looking these things up, and the one I rented had like a newer version out now, and it's like $70,000 instead of $50.

Proving Accuracy At JW Marriott

unknown 6:04

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Of course. But we had just gotten a gig at the JW Marriott, and we had McCallum was in talks with us of like, hey, we really need like a 3D model of the stage, like the production the production manager there, um director, whatever, uh good friend of ours, Russell Holmes, uh, was like, Man, you know, these people coming in like want to pre-plan these big productions, they're doing projection mapping. And he's like, you know, we've never had a 3D model of the space or much CAD or anything. So I was like, well, let's let's rent that thing again and let's see what we can do with it. So as soon as we rented it, started like, I was like, hey, like, you know, uh we'll take it to the JW. We actually had already had that job mostly done, but they they added more. They were like, we want to do the big ballrooms now. Because we did all the other space, and because they thought they had what they already needed for that, but then it turns out they didn't. Um, that was the thing. We we scanned a bunch of the space, and then I was like, hey guys, you're old CAD files, like those fucking doors aren't in the right place. And they were like, and you've been using these for years, like come on, yeah. So uh, you know, the event planners there need really clean floor plans, they need to be able to put their tables and chairs in, banquet tables, 60 inch rounds.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

You gotta know their numbers, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Dude, like, and sometimes like every inch counts. Yeah, so I I kind of looked at their data and was like, oh, I pulled their CAD file into our thing, and I was like, it's so off. I was like, there's no way. Like, so I went back there and I physically started measuring shit, and I was like, Oh my god, like our data is like right there. Like, so that was like a big win. But uh we were using that hand scanner though, and like the corners aren't very defined, and it just didn't look as it just wasn't very wasn't as efficient as I wanted it to be, even though that thing cost like seven grand. Yeah, um, it's a lot better than a phone though. It's a lot better than the data you do. It's people running around with their phone. I can lighter scan my phone. Like, yeah, that's great, but like it's not that good. The $7,000 thing we bought was better, but like still kind of like eh, still kind of noisy. So we rented the $70,000 thing and we brought it in and it was fucking like Hallelujah. Like, oh my god, like it's so much better, and it's so good, and it shoots 500 feet, and like we could do anything, is no matter how tall it is, really. I mean, we could do accouture. Um, so as I was like scanning the JW, I got this call, like, hey, like, can you come scan this thing in Las Vegas?

Financing The High-End Laser Scanner

SPEAKER_02 8:34

I got your number from so and so, and I'll wow, okay, dude. We're actually gonna be in Vegas for a convention next week. Like, maybe we'll keep this thing for another week and just bring it out, and like we were just getting calls. I'm like, I think we gotta buy this thing, dude. And like, the next big investment. I know, and I'm like, I don't know if we can borrow 70 grand. Like, do they do financing? I'm like, I think my credit's pretty good. Like, shit. So we financed this fucking thing. It was like buying a new Audi. Yeah, buying a new car.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

He's like, He's like, and now we live in a two-bedroom.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Yeah, yeah. Well, I I don't even know if I was telling my wife what they're doing on the city. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Yeah, might be, yeah, she doesn't really ask anymore.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

She kind of like distrusts you, she believes in whatever. Yeah, she's like, dude, you got it. Right, whatever. Like, I just bought a five thousand dollar laptop. I don't think I told her. Yeah. Sorry, babe. Um, yeah, so we bought that thing though, and as soon as we bought that thing, that really amplified our business. I got a call. Some dude on LinkedIn, like, saw me make a post on LinkedIn about scanning something and was like, hey, um sent me like a cold call email basically, and was just like, I run the Cal Palace Arena up near San Francisco. Have you guys heard of this place? I have heard of that place. It's 84 years old. It's monstrous, big tank of a building, hundred-foot ceilings, big truss in the ceilings, like crazy ribs, you know, like for rigging and shit. And they're like, Yeah, like you know, we're doing all these large EDM shows. Like, it's become this like hip thing. So, like, dude, like the Rolling Stones used to play there, Grateful Dead, all the big, whoever's the biggest of the big had played there. Yeah, totally. But now we're doing like EDM shit, like really big shows, like you know, so and everyone's always like, Great, let me get your CAD file. And he's like, We don't really have that. So he was like, Can you bring your drones in and scan the inside? And I was like, No, but we have something else that will absolutely do it. And right, yeah, I think I, you know, made a pretty big proposal because I was like, we can do like the outside, we can do like all this. And he's like, Well, I really just need this. So, like, we we we came to terms on the budget. I I might have come in slightly low just because I really wanted the gig, but I was like, that's you can you kind of have to know when to do that. Yeah, you have to know when to like sure, like kind of give a deal just because you want the gig because you know that once you do it, you can like Costco sells hot dogs at cheap. It's a lost leader, yeah, man. Yeah, exactly. Um, but it it's because we did it, it's turned into will be more opportunity, yeah. Yeah, for sure. So yeah, um kind of going to the next level.

Reality Capture Workflow And Rebrand

SPEAKER_02 11:13

We well, we've turned into this like reality capture business. Like we're we're still doing drone stuff sometimes. I thought like landscape architects were gonna be our bread and butter. I was like in the beginning. And I was like, Well, dude, no, no, not really. Still the indoor stuff, huh? I met plenty of them and they're they're all great. And you know, I've done a few gigs, but no, we're not really doing that that much. Like, I might even change the name. We're not really doing a lot of drone work, right? I'm kidding, I'm mostly kidding, but kind of not kidding too. So, like, we're just we're rebranding. I have a Matterport camera now, actually, too. It's a 360 camera um for virtual tours. Matterport's just like a big company that also presents it. There's other companies that do it too. But you know, you click a circle, you move on the ground. Yes, you know like real estate listing. I have one of those.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

So every job we do now, we we use that thing for insides, and then we laser scan everything, and then we can 3D model it. And then I met this dude who's like two tests away from becoming an architect, and he's he's our guy, man. Like, and he's a grinder, he's a young dude, and he's got a family, and like he'll he has a day job, but like he's like, Send me work, send me work. So he'll work at night. He's like, I'll put in 30 hours a week for you. I was like, What? So we started scanning the shit out of everything and just sending this dude our stuff, and he's pumping out you know, our CAD for us. So I don't even really draw a lot of my 3D models anymore. I'll just have him do it. Yeah, he's amazing at it, and then I'll get it back. And then now, if we would have done that for your place, scanned it, let him draw it, I would have had it in like days, and then we could have just went to town on design.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

So you just do sales now? Is that what you're kind of the role of the company?

SPEAKER_02 12:51

So Bruce, oh I guess kind of getting back real quick to when drone scope mapping started. We kind of quickly made this agreement because it was obvious that Bruce is like our operations guy. Like he's Mr. Wizard, he's so smart when it comes to software and equipment and figuring out all that shit, right? And like I'm I'm okay at it, but like I again, I I I apply myself, I teach my things and things that I want to learn. But I was like, if I don't have to like do that though, yeah, that's what I'm saying. He's also the he has his part 107 pilot's license. Wow, which you need to commercially fly drone, drone, right? Yeah, yeah. Like I have a little one. Sometimes I would take up and just kind of get a couple shots, you know, like real quick. But like I don't do like commercial projects, like I'm not I'm not a licensed pilot for that. But Bruce had it, so I was like, great, you're our pilot. I don't really want to do it anyway. So here we go. So typically, like, we'll go out and scan stuff. And I was like going in the beginning a bit, but mostly it was him. I would send him out, and sometimes he'd bring a helping hand if he needed it. Nice, and I could stay home and continue selling. Like I'm way more valuable when I'm um at my desk, yeah, taking calls and emails.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

And you seem like you're the personality behind the behind the company.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

He's got a great personality too, but um I guess like I'm the guy that the clients know more. Right. Like all of our accounts are are mine, like my my networking, right? So yeah, net networking, man. Networking really goes a long way. Uh remember I told you earlier I'm really awful at marketing. I don't think I can only imagine. I can only imagine if uh we marketed. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Yeah. Well, you're gonna have to get to that point at some point.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

I want to. I think like we spent the first year though, really refining our skills and and learning and like making maybe a few mistakes here or there. Nothing like bad that ever tanked us, but like, yeah, like we definitely it's not plug and play. Um, that's a good point I should bring up. The big challenges with this business is um the equipment's really expensive, but anybody with money can go out and buy it. Right. So if you got a hundred grand laying around, you can go buy drones and LIDAR scanners and all the shit. You know, anybody can buy it. But then once you turn it on, right? Yeah, the software, like which software do you use to do what with? And there's lots of different variables there. So, dude, we we're like just obsessed with figuring it out. You know, we're very solution-oriented people. Um, we're always trying to solve challenges. So then you gotta figure out how to use all the shit. Great. Now who do you sell it to? So it's these three like really big challenges. Yeah. And we've like made strides and overcome all of them, but we're it's still hard. With Raid and Concepts, I don't really start any job anymore without drone scope mapping now. Like drone scope mapping's first.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

They're first.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Kind of kind of has to. So that leads to your other if it's if it's a remodel or a renovation or or even like uh planning your empty space. Like you got like two acres and you're thinking about like, oh, I got some land out here, bro. I'm thinking about we can do fucking clamping over here, we do have a shop over here. Like, there's no way I'm gonna do that without drone scope mapping coming in first.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

So they're gonna they're gonna do the front work of what you do on the back end. It's all starts that business feeds your other business.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Unless like an architect has given me a 3D model or 2D plans to work off, sure, we can work with that. But if there's like nothing yet for the space, like I like to say we're delivering spatial intelligence. So drone scope mapping will come in early, like and uh capture all the data of the site, existing conditions. Now we can get it all drawn in 3D.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

So, like if you did say, say we because he and I were interested at one time buying like five acre property out in like land landers or wherever the hell desert or the good.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

It'd be smart to do that now, because that's right, that's next. That's where people are gonna move eventually.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Totally. Um now you made me lose my train of thought.

unknown 16:49

Shit.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

So I know that. So if you had a big lot and you're saying if drones got mapping were to come in.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

You could come in and draw it up for us, right? We're gonna build on there.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Yeah, but I don't remember. No, but I think sorry, yeah, but you you you were wondering like if you were to bring us in, I think early on in the process for something that you want to design on your acres.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

I mean, I guess we were talking about like we wanted to have we wanted to make these little rentals and we wanted to do this. So yeah, you could totally just do that.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Right. So like typically you would probably hire a surveyor because if you need boundaries, or maybe you bought the property and it already has that. Shit. Because like we need setbacks and stuff too, right? We're not legally certified to do that stuff. We have never touched any of that, like we don't deal with boundaries and all that. Um, we're not gonna, you know, submit plans to the county or whatever. Like we're just we're not surveyors.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Now I remember what I was saying. What would something like that cost? Have you figured out that cost to go okay, hey, like right for tile? Okay, this tile is this much per square foot. Are you charging per square foot? Or how do you price?

Pricing By Outcome Not By Hour

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Pricing is so challenging. Yeah. Um it is, it's hard to people. I think always want to be like, well, it's you know, it's this many square feet. I'm like, okay, well, a 10,000 square foot box is a lot different than a 10,000 square foot maze.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

It's it's it's it's uh how much detail do you need, the complexity, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

We have like built-in costs, of course. Like we always know like there's a mobilization fee. Like we don't get out of bed for less than whatever, right? Um, yeah, the internal cost of like the labor, the day rate thing, um, the equipment being used. We're using the colour.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

So it's all it's all for a job. Yeah, no matter what.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah, yeah. So like those costs will always be there. Like I can tell you right now if like you wanted photogrammetry, like, hey, drone map my uh my acre or two and send me that link you're talking about, or I can cruise around. It's like Google Earth on steroids, I can take measurements and it's really detailed. That's like 2500 bucks. Like easy. That's an easy I know I know I know that that's that, no matter what. Yeah, pretty much depending that it doesn't matter how complex it is. But when you start LiDAR scanning stuff, and then now you need 3D modeling and shit, that's where it gets way more like, eh.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

A little more complicated.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Yeah, like let's let's figure out the scope and then um the amount of detail and the timing of the deliverables. You know, because if you're like, well, I need this like in I need this next week. Okay. Well, if you want to pay the cut those rush fees. You want to pay the cut in line price? Like, all right, cool. Like that could be this, you know. But or if you have a little bit of time, then um, yeah, people too. Oh, you're only out there for a couple hours, you know, and I'm like, I don't get it. I don't charge by the hour, I charge by the outcome. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, that's just I've been like that with 3D for years, too. Yeah. Dude, I've been uh some people they blow my fucking mind with the whole like their perception of value based on time is so weird to me.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Like it no, like I had recently I did I did a gig, um, and I actually like this client, and I'm doing big things with them, but um we did something like pretty fast and awesome, like did a really good job and sent it back. And he was like, Hey, so I think that was too easy for you. I think that was easier than he thought it was gonna be. Can I get credit towards the next job?

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Hey, oh no. Hey, oh no.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

In his defense, I don't think he's really like being malicious, but for your experience. Yeah, that's what I tell people all the time.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

You're paying for my 20 years of experience of doing this, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:27

You know, you're not paying for he was trying to be malicious, but I was still like, dude, like if you need a deal, just ask for a deal, bro. Like, I got you. Like, I'm happy to give people deals, like yeah, especially people I work for already, whatever. Like, if if for any reason you need a deal, just ask for a deal, sure, and I'll let you know yes or no. Yeah, um, but don't like come at me with that logic because that's like I've never been penalized for being fast and efficient before. If anything, it should be worth more money, exactly. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, and the experience, like, oh yeah, it took me two hours and uh six years, and twenty years sort of depending on who you're talking to. It was 20 years, that's why I can do it. Sure, like I've I've only been doing the 3D thing for six years, but you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Yeah, um, yeah, so I just put that on your invoices.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Charge by the uh hour, not the outcome or the outcome, not the hour point.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

No, but what I this took me this much time for blah blah blah in six years. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Um, yeah, so you know, budget challenges are are funny.

Selling Value When Budgets Are Tight

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Um, I'd I think my biggest challenge when it comes to budget stuff is I get brought in too late in the game. If someone's already been involved, that happens to me so much, dude. I always get referrals like, hey, meet my friend, they've been working on this thing for six months. Uh so that owner already has their price, uh, and they're already fucking dealing with all these other expenses that they were. Yeah. So now, like, okay, I know it's gonna save the day. Let's bring in the 3D guy who's gonna show us what it's all gonna look like, and we're gonna make our decisions. It's gonna be fucking awesome. But it's five grand. And they're like, Oh, well, blah blah blah. It's like, dude, well. Like what? Okay. Like they get sticker shocked because they're already, you know, like especially as they don't out money to all these other vendors, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:06

And then you come in.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

It's like I get it. I remodeled my house last year. It was one of the most stressful things I ever did in my life.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Um, I was I wanted to spend a hundred grand. I think I spent 150.

unknown 22:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah, nothing ends on time.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

If I had to spend 2,500 bucks on a rendering dude, I would have been like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 22:22

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

I'm like downgrading my tile over here. And like I can't pay that guy.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

But it actually does like like when you did the slab studio, I mean, it saves so much headache, right? You just have a straight up. You have a plan. I think it really helps you.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

You've seen it before, you know what it's supposed to like. I think it really helps you make informed decisions.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Yeah, because we're like, oh, we don't like I don't like that over there. Might do this instead.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

Yeah, and it might not be like a you know 100% like the actual color. The the lighting and color is my biggest challenge with that software, right? Like, you know, like obviously, you know, lighting. If we were to start changing the Kelvin values of this lighting, like my like shirt's gonna change, like the everything here is gonna change, but but the more the warmer you make the light. So that's like probably the biggest another challenge I face in my 3D thing is when people start taking it too literal and like they start tripping on the colors, and I'm like, you know, it's like it's it's the vibe, man. It's so it's so close, but it's not like it's not yeah, super real. Um, but hey, it's real enough. So again, people's perception of value, I think, is it's wild, man. So that's in any business. I've worked with yeah, designers where they talk their client into buying a $300,000 chandelier.

unknown 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

But giving me $10,000 was like, oh my gosh, totally like drawing our entire house in 3D and helping me see every calendar uh hardware and faucet and lighting picture. I was like, what? Come on, people.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

But what you do working with you is just so invaluable, especially when like we had you work with on our buildings. It's like sitting there with you for that 20 minutes and just seeing it before it happens is like, yeah, you know, it almost it almost is almost like so. I wouldn't even do a project now without going to you and just seeing the 3D rendering.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

With your project, I don't know if we really spec the materials with my thing, but I think we more so were were it was about the layout.

SPEAKER_03 24:15

Yeah, it was just space planning, but putting up new walls, maybe taking walls out. Yeah, I think we took walls out.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

No, you did desk because I wanted this and I wanted to see this. And I was Slap Studio. I'm pretty no, I have I'm I'm pretty anal about what I want.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

She was pretty she's pretty anal.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

We got into a little bit of detail, yeah. Yeah, I know with Slap Studio we got into more detail. Oh, yeah. Dude, that fucking that reception desk. I was tripping out when I walked in. I was like, whoa, that's that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

It came out pretty, huh?

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Yeah. Um and again, I don't I didn't really design that. You I followed your direction on that one. Yeah, but like it was cool. Yeah, um, but more and more I am starting to throw my own little my own little things in um I'll sprinkle on Easter eggs, like floating shelves and things like that, or like things that I think look good in someone's face. And I've been on meetings where the designer with the designer and their client, and I kind of snuck something in, and the client's like, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

And the designer's like, oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Yeah, all that years of experience, right? You finally know, you finally know what your style is.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

I know when you when you're doing something for so long, you just get a good feel of what's what's gonna look good, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Like people judge you introduced me to Mandy. She's awesome, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Yeah, um remember that fucking round access design control. Um the medallion.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Oh, on the floor, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

And the the the client was just I was like, Oh Jesus, Brian.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

I did another one of those.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Brendan, take this one.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Recently I did a foyer, like when you walk in medallion on the floor in El Dorado. Yeah, she she brought me into a really cool bighorn job, and um, you know, the renderings turned out, the renderings turned out so nice that that client was like, Hey, we want to get into the backyard now. Um, and I Mandy kind of wasn't really part of that. She was like, Yeah, like I I might like do the barbecue or something, but like you should work with them directly. She was really nice and give me to this client, and it was super cool. And they were like, Yeah, you know, like we're using some great contractors and stuff, but like we kind of want to see um they do nice designs and all, but we want we would love to see what you would do. Just because I think they wanted something a little more possibly unique, you know. Um yeah, so I ended up basically like redesigning this bighorn backyard where it was the first time that I was like given the keys to the kingdom. Kind of like, yeah, like it's all you. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't really speculing all the materials. I was I was showing placeholders as a suggestion, but it was definitely like the shape of the pool and like some other stuff that was kind of had like an elegant curve to it, like this big retaining wall, planner bed thing. And they were blown away, man. They're they were super stoked and they're super nice people. I think, yeah, they and they ended up doing most of it. They it was also the first time I got the whole like we they loved my design, but then can but can we change that? And then let's change that too. Oh, now we want to change this. And I was like, ah, what's the domino effect? Eventually they they chopped enough away to where I'm like, well, at least they kept it kept the shape of the pool. Um so yeah, so that that happens. Um but no man, since then I I I've been getting a lot more again, where someone did bring me into this uh there's a capital firm doing a lot of really awesome vacation rentals. And um I'm starting to in India? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

You know those guys?

SPEAKER_00 27:35

I'm working on them, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Yeah, so crazy. Can we say names?

SPEAKER_00 27:40

I don't know. Or should we not? Um the biggest pool, right? Or the biggest?

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Yeah, they have the the the big lazy river. Yeah, anyway, I like those guys. Those guys are great. Um so I've been I just designed this massive water slide for those guys as a really cool property. Dual water slide, crazy observation deck. Like it's it's fucking badass. Um, those guys are starting to trust me with more and more you know projects. So yeah, it's amazing. But that's where again the pool guy will be like, hey, let's let's call a designer. And I'm like, guys, I'm not the I I I'm always like, I'm not the designer. I'm not a designer, but I'm like, I can help you. Finally, I'm like, sure, whatever. Like, what do you need? Right. Um, yeah, so actually, we're working on a really cool one in Palm Springs right now. That was the first one they brought me in on. Huh. Um, I can't wait till that construction, I think, is starting soon. It's a boutique hotel. Um, they had an empty lot next door, and they basically gave me this big rectangle and we're like, make it awesome. So, yeah, we're doing like another lazy river and you know, pickleball court and you have to have a pickleball cart and bombs. Well, in a center, cold plunge, it's on all the all the good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

You're a busy guy, man.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Yeah, so well, so now that I've had the ability to laser scan everything and generate more accurate data, my 3D business has picked way back up again. So it's been this like crazy like a full circle. Ping pong, yeah. It's like this ping pong thing, man. It's just like whoa, whoa, whoa.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

That's awesome, though. You built a business that feeds the other one. It's a freaking pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

So Raiden Concepts like blew up in like Q2 of last year, where I was like record numbers, like, oh my god, this is amazing because I was able to do this now. But then, like, I did this thing where I kind of like had a I guess like a pile of cash enough to be comfortable to where I was like, I stopped really focusing on Raiden Concepts and I put everything in a drone scope, like hard, like gnarly. And then by the end of the year, I was like, Oh yeah, I should probably pay attention to my my other business again.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

The baby, yeah, the one you started.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

And it it dwindled like a lot, like, but then out of nowhere, I started picking up again. And it's like it's been this just like crazy world.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

That's that's fucking sales, man. That's sales, isn't it? It just you just never know.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Yeah, the market kind of tells you where to go.

unknown 29:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

I'm in this like weird. So I guess uh I know we're probably gonna cap us off soon. Um, you know, where we're at right now, like today, is dronescope mapping has we got approached uh about a month and a half ago. Dude,

VDC Site Documentation Takes Off

SPEAKER_02 30:10

I so I'm a huge, huge fan of you know, you build it and they will come. So remember that $70,000 terrestrial scanner we bought? Yeah. Well, because we bought that fucking thing, yeah. Um, these guys got a hold of us somehow through whoever, and I think actually the dude that sold us the equipment. They had to go through like four channels of people before they ended up at that guy. And he's like, Oh, you should talk to dronescope mapping. Like they're that's what they do, they're badass. This construction firm out of Canada, major like worldwide construction firm based in Canada, has a VDC department, stands for virtual design and construction. They have a department solely based on just that. And um they're like, hey, like we're starting to get more opportunity in the States, but we can't really send our guys over there. So, like, you know, work visas and whatever.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

We need you, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Yeah, so we're looking for a strong partner down there. They're like, Will you travel? And we're like, Yeah, like I'll go anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

You're like, Will you pay for my hotel?

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Dude, they pay all travel reimbursables are covered, plus the the fees are good. So they were a lot, I was like raving about how good we were at 3D modeling and all that shit, and they're like, We don't need that, we just want the data. And I was like, Wait, what? You just want the point cloud? They're like, Yeah. But also with the matter port, you have a matterport? And I was like, Fuck yeah, I got a matterport. We need that too. Like, we need that, and we need you to take photos of like points of interest, like electrical panels and everything else that you could want to understand about a space, you know, high-res photo of it, and then yeah, so we're basically doing site documentation now. Um, they call it a site survey, and I know I started to touch on touch on this earlier. We don't like to use the word survey like ever.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

Because I'm I want to be really respectful of those guys. Um, those guys are licensed and they went through years of school, and a lot of them are getting bummed at guys like us right now because people off the street are just buying this. I've heard people call them carpet baggers, um, just buying this equipment and starting to fucking we're surveying. And it's like, dude, it's it's it's slippery slope. Like you don't want to do that. Um anywho, we're doing all this like site documentation now, which is VDC capture, as I'm calling it, and we're making way more money than we ever did doing anything else. Absolutely and but dude, I in the last two and a half weeks, I've we've been in Houston, Aspen.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

Oh, so you're traveling, and I was in New York last week. Awesome, man.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Uh yeah. So I woke up in New York on Friday at one a 1 a.m. Pacific time and did my 12-hour travel day home and went right to Coachella with my wife.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

That's awesome. For first two days, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

I took yesterday off and stayed home with the kids. Yeah, so be it.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

Um can only do one or two days of Coachella these days.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

I don't party anymore either, actually. Um, I'm still fucking tired. That helps. I haven't drank in four years. Really?

SPEAKER_03 33:01

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Yeah, I was gonna take 90 days. That was my plan. But uh I kind of like I like to attribute my businesses doing well to that. Absolutely. You could clear my own. I'll get back to having some point. But uh yeah, I know I I I uh I've been sober for like 100% sober for like four years. So that uh I think that really helps everything. But real quick, so back to where we're at right now, dronescope mapping, doing all this amazing BDC capture. Um we are at that point where if we're gonna continue, like it's so funny. Like we have drones in our name and mapping in our name, and we're kind of not really doing either, like right now. And I I've come to terms with like if we're gonna continue like mapping, it is kind of a fine line between you know, the survey community going like careful guys, like I know, man.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Like crossing the line.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Yeah, though the argument could be made that you know, sure, what we say we're not doing boundaries and we're not touching that the legal data stuff. We're just kind of helping people with existing conditions to understand the space for new design and things. But man, if these documents do end up getting used for construction or anything like that, like that's where it gets a little the liability.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Yeah, but don't you just note it, right? It's like when people ask me for referrals for a tile installer or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

I mean, believe me, it's lots of disclaimers on our plans. Yeah, um, but again, it I think we're only gonna get away with it for so long. I

Surveyor Pushback And Legal Lines

SPEAKER_02 34:28

I made a post on LinkedIn recently, actually, about my laser scanning stuff and all excited, and I was getting a lot of praise, but then a couple surveyors caught wind of it and started kind of circling me on there.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

And then I had a buddy back me up who's like an engineer, and those and even more of them jumped in and were like, you're not licensed in our state, like fuck you. Like so, I was like, dude, like, ugh, like, all right, kind of like everyone calm down. Like, I'm not trying to bum anyone out. Right, right. I just stayed quiet.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

I didn't respond because this is the time you call a mere A star.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

Well, it's funny because I always wanted to like stay in my lane, like, dude, I'm not like hurt, not trying to push into your guys' work, right? Like, we're yeah, can they do your work? Here's the thing uh a lot of what we're doing, they don't offer.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Yeah, so I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

But when it comes to CAD files of like a site and showing where an existing building is and things like that, that yeah it they have a lot of codes and laws where I think some of that language can say yes, that does constitute surveying, or it's falls in within scope of our services. So you guys are practicing out of licensure. And I started reading some of that shit and I was like, ooh, yeah, they're kind of not wrong. So social media though, I immediately called a surveyor that I know and was like, hey dude, what would it take to get you to uh you know partner with us, like be our guy?

SPEAKER_03 35:51

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Um we have we've always put though that we're prepared to partner with with them. We want to be a supporting partner to them. Right. Um and you know, we just collaborate. But we haven't like come across anything that we really needed it for. But now I'm like, well, okay, if we get a licensed surveyor on our team, I might start shopping that service around. I wasn't really trying to before you guys started circling me.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

Kind of push me in that direction. So you know what they say, man. If you don't have haters, you ain't popping.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Oh, you've got some haters out there that must be must be popping. In their defense, I understand why they, you know, were chiming in that way. But yeah, I'm just like, dude, all right. Like, um, I'd like to do it legit, you know. So yeah, I think if we're gonna continue like using mapping in our name and offering maybe like site plan services, we we weren't really doing any site plans before, you know. Um I think we it looks like next month actually, we're bringing a surveyor into our fold who's going to uh do uh quality assurance and quality checking on all of our data. And he's gonna if it if needed, he can stamp stuff. I think it's gonna open doors. Like I'm starting to do a lot more design for large lots and stuff to where I'm like, okay, we can do the survey too and show the setbacks, and I can design within those setbacks. Wow. Like, dude, okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:11

I think it follows in your business plan. Like that's how we've always kind of done things, right? You just pivoted as needed. And this is just another example of that, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:18

So we're getting so busy though, like we've been flying around doing all this like you know, site capture stuff where I'm like, I can't be the one doing this, dude.

Scaling The Team And The Work

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Like, yeah, so we have to start scaling. Like, I gotta start buying more equipment and training people, as and I'm sure you guys understand the scaling thing, right? Like fine line, man. Yeah, when you start hiring employees, right?

SPEAKER_03 37:37

Like didn't it get scary? That's where money goes, you don't know where it's going. Well, you just gotta have make sure they show up on time, and you gotta build a good team, which you'll you'll figure out. It seems like you've got a lot of people that can help out.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

That's the next step. Um, so I've kind of come into this like area where I'm like in the middle of these two companies, and uh, trust me, I wish I was just giving out one business card. All right, it gets confusing when I'm like, well, here's this one for this, and here's what this one for that. And they're like, Well, I'm like, same number, same name, but like Yeah, but you know what?

SPEAKER_00 38:06

You could you should be hiring somebody to do rate-in com concepts, oh and then you do the final editing and put your stamp on it, like, okay, this can go out.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

I have I have a killer employee in Brazil, actually.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Yeah, he does amazing work and you know, he's affordable and he's just so awesome. Such a good dude. Um, I've been working with him for years, and just lately, finally, I've gotten busy enough to where I can actually kind of keep him going.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Like full-time, but like he does other goods, but like, yeah, I I stoke him out. So um, and he's really helpful. So he does do a lot of the heavy lifting for me, and then I'll do the final like fine-tuning with the client type thing. But the problem, not necessarily a problem, but um, you know, a lot of my work with certain clients, though, they the real value with me again is like you're not just paying for a few pretty images. Um, we sit together and do real-time design sessions, as you know. Because sometimes you don't know exactly what you want yet. What they're yeah, you have an idea-ish, you're like, dude, I know I want to borrow over here, but like I gotta, we gotta work, we gotta woodshed this thing, we gotta figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

So you and I sitting together, even on Zoom, I'll share my screen and you'll go, like, ah, move that over there. No, try this, try that.

unknown 39:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

I can't have him do that. It's gotta be me.

unknown 39:20

No.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

So that's certain gigs like I have to step out, touch 100%. Um, sometimes I'll get it into a pretty good place and then kick it over to him and go, hey, dude, you could make this look fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

Do the rendering part. Um, so again, with the rendering stuff these days, the AI thing is so fast and incredible, but it's doesn't have the control that I have. Um, we can get extremely custom and we can fly around your space. Um everyone's trying to, you know, claim that 3D rendering is dead because of the AI thing. And I'm like, I mean, it's uh sure, man. If you're just selling a couple pretty pictures, yes. Yeah. But no, if uh you truly want to fly around your space in real time, yeah, real-time design sessions is like where I think the the true value is. Um so I don't know. I think that my next frontier is scaling maybe both companies, maybe eventually having just one company kind of rebranded as one name that offers all of this shit under one umbrella. And I'm just kind of managing people, time, and money. Um, and then sure, if I have a few niche design gigs that are paying enough, I'll just yeah, I'll do those. I'll do that. That'd be great.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

Um

Building The Punk Rock Museum

SPEAKER_03 40:32

we're kind of running up against time here, but I gotta I gotta ask you as a music fan, what's your involvement with the punk rock museum? I know you were a part of you're part of that founding of that. Right. Takes you back to your music. How did that go?

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Such a great, great question. Um well, you know, I I grew up on all that stuff. Love it, absolutely love NoFX and uh bands like that. Um so Fat Mike, the singer from No FX, decided to start the punk rock museum in Las Vegas. And because I had started doing this 3D thing in 2021, I was still pretty early in the game. Yeah, I had gotten a call from someone that was like, Hey, I think you'd be a good fit for this project.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

Oh, you designed that place. Well, you helped design it.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

I can't claim design, but I was part of the design team. I was part of the pre-planning and design for 18 months leading up to the opening. Dude, so they so I got this call and like interviewed on Zoom basically, and they were like, You're gonna be working with Fat Mike from NoFX and Fletcher from Pennywise, and like all these, like I was like, Well, these guys was like pinching myself, like, whoa, that's awesome. So I was like sitting on Zoom with these dudes, and I was like, Oh my god. And then I got to hang out with them in person finally. So yeah, um, I was the guy, I was the instrument through which when anyone had ideas, there was a lot of cooks in the kitchen on that job. Yeah, a lot of people had lots of different opinions, and I hate that more than that. But I was just like, whatever, guys, like I'll just fucking show you what it looks like. I did offer input here or there. You say who's paying the bill? That's who I'm listening to. And I that wasn't like a big money gig for me. Same thing when I used to do golden voice. I eventually started doing renderings for golden voice, which is really cool too. We didn't really touch on that. Sorry, but I would do renderings for Coachella and Power Trip and all that. To me, those jobs weren't about money, they were relationship goods. I just fucking love being involved. Yeah, just I love those entities and what they're about. Um so yeah, man, I I did the museum thing, I helped those guys, and whenever they would want to see anything, I would show it, and they would all have meetings about it, make decisions. Yeah, so Fat Mike gifted me shares of the museum. Oh, I'm a shareholder, okay, and I'm on the founder's wall. That's awesome, man. They were like, send me a picture, we're gonna do these caricatures, you know. Oh, damn, just fucking goofy pictures, and dude, I'm like right there.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

And this is in Las Vegas, right? Yeah, okay. So I gotta go, I gotta go check. I've I've been meaning to like go to Vegas and actually check this thing out because I'm a founder. I grew up on punk rock a little bit too. I'm more of a hip hop 90s kid, but but hip hop and hip hop and punk are chronological.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

That was the big challenge was like, where do we start? Is it like 70s New York or is it 70s UK? Yeah, there's like this big backup. There's a big, there's a big, like, yeah, there's a big like you get into like iggy and the stooges, and then you start moving through, and then like you get in like 80s hardcore, black flag, and fucking like Los Angeles, and you know, all like the the New York hardcore share, the East Coast stuff, like Bad Brains and stuff like that. Like it's so rad. Like it goes through all of it. You even get to like the early 90s and like Kurt Cobain's couch from his studios and Nirvana. I know it's like grunge or whatever, but like they were in punk rock. Dave Garl was in a band called Scream, punk rock band. Yeah, it was before Nirvana. It's all tight again. Oh, dude. Every member of Foo Fighters was in some punk band back in the day. Yeah, it's it's pretty cool. Yeah, um, yeah. So the punk rock museum's rad. I think everyone should check it out. It's it's really cool if you you know, if you're into it.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Where is it?

SPEAKER_02 43:50

I mean, no, it's in I know that's it's in the arts district, it's like not too far from uh the stratosphere. Okay, it's by where the design district is. I looked at room here, yeah. It's right next to Little Darlings.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

Okay, we were right. Big strip club.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

It was fast.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

Yeah, so that's awesome, man. What a cool project, man.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

That's the kind of shit that was full circle for sure. I was like, whoa, like because I went down this like trippy path, like I'm doing this, like, oh my god. Like, so I think consistently making good decisions over time, as as it is with life, is is the move. Yeah, it leads you to things that you never would have done before.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

By the way, when the pandemic came and I lost and that everyone lost their job. The the guy that took over my job at the hotel lost his job a month before I lost.

SPEAKER_03 44:35

Oh, damn. So it wouldn't have been mattered anyway, right? So it was it was meant to be.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

But my point is that if I wouldn't have taken that leap, if I would have been like, no, this is my secure thing, I would have lost my job faster. Yeah. The guy I was working for when the pandemic hit at least paid me for a month. Oh, I think thinking, hoping that shit would come back. Right. But

Take The Risk And Find Brandon

SPEAKER_02 44:55

again, my my point there to like wrap this all up is like you have to take chances, you have to take risks, you have to uh follow your gut. Yeah, like you know. Um what the hell is that fucking thing? Sorry, I I have this like thing on my LinkedIn page, and I'm so sorry. I know. I can't who made it. It's so good, but I can't remember what the hell it says. It's a quote, I'm guessing. If you're worried about the cost of going for it, you should see the price of staying exactly where you are. Oh phone drop, phone drop. It's so good I couldn't remember it.

SPEAKER_03 45:35

That's it, man.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Remember what it was.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

You need to have a tattooed on your eye.

SPEAKER_03 45:39

Well, with that phone drop, we're gonna thank you for coming in, man. You've been a wealth of knowledge. You're a rising star in our community in our entrepreneur community. Oh, thanks, man. We love we personally love working with you. Where can where can our audience find you? What's the best place to reach out, and if they need some renderings or if you want some new clients, where is the best place to contact you?

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Each business has a website, not very great. Um sorry. Www dronescope mapping.com. Okay. Um, Raiden Concept, same thing. R-A-Y-D-O-N concepts. Uh Instagram. Instagram. Instagram shit, yeah, LinkedIn, whatever. Um I probably should meet someone that could help me with my marketing stuff. Uh, I just don't want to make a Facebook post about it because then you know I'll get uh thousands of recommendations from everyone's cousin.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

I have a friend who's looking for this.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

If I can meet the right person that's like, oh yeah, like they're gonna elevate our game, I'll I'll invest in that. But I don't know who that person is yet.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Maybe you'll find them after the show drops.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

I might be looking for you. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

So we want to thank you for coming in. Thank you for having me. Sorry I went so you have a lot of lessons to teach our audience. We're real happy we've been wanting to bring you in. So thanks for coming. Thank you, man. I appreciate it. If you guys found some value in that conversation, we know the routine. Like, subscribe, and follow. And we'll see you next time on TV Hustle.