The Rock-N-Roll Show Podcast

Episode 052 - Diane Allen - The Interview

• ALEX GADD / DIANE ALLEN • Season 2 • Episode 52

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This week, we have a compelling conversation with Diane Allen, an international speaker, violinist, author, and expert authority on the Flow State. Diane shares her fascinating journey from growing up in Cleveland, Ohio to becoming a professional violinist and concert master, and then a successful professional speaker. Discover the pivotal moments that shaped her career, her evolution into understanding and teaching the Flow State, and how she transitioned from classical music to becoming a keynote speaker and author of "Flow: Unlock Your Genius, Love What You Do." Diane’s inspiring story of finding her true calling and helping others unlock their potential through the Flow State is a must-listen. Tune in for an episode filled with insightful anecdotes, powerful lessons, and, of course, music, albeit a different kind of music, all this week on The Rock-N-Roll Show Podcast!

00:00 Welcome to the Rock-N-Roll Show Podcast
01:19 Diane's Early Exposure to Music
04:35 Choosing the Violin: A Childhood Passion
08:16 From High School to Professional Violinist
12:57 Freelance Work and Teaching Career
16:54 Exploring Pop Music and New Experiences
23:16 Moving to Oregon and Becoming Concertmaster
28:20 The Power of Group Flow
30:51 The Unexpected Stress Response
33:54 Transition to Public Speaking
37:23 A New Path with the Violin
40:29 The Essence of Flow
44:15 Current Endeavors and Future Plans
48:28 Final Thoughts and Farewell

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Diane's Website: https://dianeallen.com/
Diane's TedX Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/diane_allen_how_to_find_flow_and_lose_yourself_in_it

Find her on Social Media!
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dianeallenspeaker/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dianeallenspeaker/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dianeallenspeaker/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DianeAllenFlowStateSpeaker

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Alex Gadd:

Welcome to the Rock-N-Roll Show Podcast. We're here to share the magic of experiencing music together with strangers and with friends, and to get to know our guests a little bit better through their experiences with music of all kinds. I'm your host, Alex Gadd, and I relate to people best when talking about music, finding out how someone got into music, how listening to and making music helped shaped who that person is today. All of that allows us to get to know and understand one another better. Today we're welcoming Diane Allen to the show. Diane is an international speaker, violinist, author, and is a global authority on the flow state. Her work is focused on empowering people to get into their flow state, and she wrote a book called Flow, Unlock Your Genius, Love What You Do, which is out now. She's a TEDx speaker. She's been featured on all four of the major television networks, and we're thrilled to have her joining us today. Diane, welcome.

Diane Allen:

Thank you so much. My idea of fun.

Alex Gadd:

Thank you very much for joining us. And usually I like to start off just by finding out how our guests got exposure to music for the first time, your earliest memories of music and how it first impacted you

Diane Allen:

Well, I grew up where the rock and roll hall of fame exists in Cleveland, Ohio. And while Cleveland has a reputation. of, being, you know, not that favorable. It was actually an incredibly rich cultural, location. There's like a world famous art museum. The Cleveland Orchestra is in like one of the top five orchestras of the world. Um, there's a, a Shakespeare festival that John Lithgow's father ran, and I, I, when I heard how I learned that it was John Lithgow's father, because I heard John. Um, it was an interview and he was saying that he used to be like some of the people who would have the minor roles in the back, you know, like a guard holding a sword or, you know, something like that.

Alex Gadd:

Extras, yeah,

Diane Allen:

And so my, my mom, I think she was the one who, um, instigated it, but my dad was happy to follow along and she took us to everything. Um, whether it was the Shakespeare plays or the art museum or the Cleveland orchestra. I was so little that my, I would sit in the chairs and they would fold up on me. Right. And my feet would be swinging. So, you know, she just was like always getting us out there and exposing us to all kinds of things. Um, W MMS, for those of you who know,

Alex Gadd:

right on.

Diane Allen:

the radio that played all the rock. I remember growing up with my transistor radio with the one earplug, you know,

Alex Gadd:

Oh yeah. I had one too.

Diane Allen:

That's the culture that I grew up in. They don't do this too much anymore, but we had music education in elementary school. We had a little orchestra, right. Um, fed into the junior high, which fed into the high school, and I know, um, you know, colleagues of mine are, teachers in the school systems and they say it's brutal when you don't have people starting out younger, right. It's difficult to build a high school orchestra if you don't have, a long feet anyways, I'm getting a little sidetracked, but, um, my mom. Again, I have to attribute to her, if she had known about this thing called the Suzuki method to teach young children how to play the violin, I'm sure she would have adopted it because it was just starting out at Oberlin College. In Ohio at that time. And if she had known, I bet she would have taken me, uh, because I chose the violin as something I wanted to play. And cause, you know, she asked, what do you want to play? And, and all the teachers wouldn't take anybody until they were eight years old. But, um, Suzuki teachers will take them as, you know, three year olds and four year olds. So, um, I started on piano. Because, uh, she knew of a piano teacher who would take a six year old and then, uh, as soon as I was eight, it was all violin.

Alex Gadd:

Now what, what drew you to the violin for the first time as such a young age?

Diane Allen:

Yeah. So, um, you and I talked about this really incredible concert. Once again, um, Severance Hall, it is stunning. We were sitting pretty high up and there's something about being in the back of the, you know, of the top, the high area, right? And we were way up high. And what happens is, is that the sound from, it just accumulates way up high. Um, and it's really intense experience. Um, a lot of times when you're sitting up front, the sound is just going right over your head, right? So, you know, we were at that, that spot. Where, like, everything just came, um, you know, straight up. If you imagine, like, a whoosh of wind, right, coming carrying all that sound. And I'm little, with my feet dangling, and it was, uh, Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet. And it was hair raising. It was, um, it was just so intense. I felt like I was being pinned to the back of the chair, the force of it. And it was around that time. I don't remember, you know, if it was exactly at that concert when my mom leaned over and she said, what instrument do you want to play? And I loved the violins for two reasons. Um, you can see the coordinated bows going up and down. And there was something about the incredible high notes. That would cut through all of the other sound that you could always hear those high notes. And I just thought that was really cool. So that was basically it.

Alex Gadd:

well, you want to be heard. Every little kid wants to be heard. You

Diane Allen:

Oh, that's hilarious.

Alex Gadd:

I, that's how I relate to it. I, I had very similar experiences. I got taken to rock concerts very young. And because my family was involved in the music business. And, uh, Yes. Also sitting too close to the stage at any concert is terrible because you hear only the music that's closest to you, the noise that's closest to you. Whereas if you sit further back, you hear the full mix, which someone is being paid a lot of money to do a good job mixing and making sure the audience can hear it. If you sit too close, you don't always get that. But I also just want it to be heard. And I felt like, yeah, the guitar is the easiest way to be heard because that's the featured instrument in the band. And I feel like. You were at, and we'll get to this in greater detail, but is the violin, the featured instrument in an orchestra usually? This is asking because of ignorance. I don't know.

Diane Allen:

Yeah, they're the heavy lifters. It's, it's kind of funny if you have an orchestra score for a symphony, uh, you know, there might be 46, 48 pages in a violin score, but like the tuba score will have one page, and, uh, yeah, it's, it's a definitely, you know, a strong melodic. You know,

Alex Gadd:

I would think so.

Diane Allen:

feature of the orchestra and, um, yeah, there's, you know, there's two sections of violin. There's second section, they do more of, um, you know, harmony. And, uh, violas, you know, more harmony, cello, you know, they're like the baseline and, uh, but they also kind of have, you know, take on a lot of melody. So like, yeah, I don't know, kind of gets passed around.

Alex Gadd:

Sure. Now, so you, you see, Romeo and Juliet, you're blown away by this performance. How did you then start transitioning from piano to violin lessons? Was that in school or did you take private lessons?

Diane Allen:

It was private lessons? Uh, you know, in downtown, there's like a whole cultural area where, The art museum, is right across the street from Severance Hall, which is where the orchestra concerts were. This is all on Case Western Reserve, um, University campus. Um, the Cleveland Institute, uh, Of music is also in that area and behind a block behind the Cleveland Institute of Music is the Cleveland Music School settlement is this giant mansion that was transformed into a music school. And so, you know, the ballroom would be where we would have our, our recitals. Right. And, um, the, the second floor had all of the big bedrooms and that's where all the pianos were. Violin. I had to walk over to this, um, area with this narrow staircase. It was the servant's quarters, this tiny little room, the size of a closet. And that's where I would have my violin lessons. And as soon as I started it at eight years old, I was like, I was done with the piano.

Alex Gadd:

It is rare when a child says I'm interested in something and yet that becomes their life's passion and their work. I mean, I was interested in baseball. I didn't become a baseball player. Uh, I was interested in, in rock and roll music and this is as close as I've gotten to rock and roll music, except playing in some cover bands. You actually made it work. So. You, you started eight as a violin student, I assume you played throughout high school. Were you the best violin player in your high school?

Diane Allen:

no, I mean, keep in mind, I am not a child prodigy. I am just somebody who happened to be playing the violin. And my story is really not sexy in any way. It is just like, it was something I did. It was something I kept doing. I enjoyed it. And when you got to that time in high school, when they're looking at career counseling, I remember thinking, well, I wonder if there's, you know, if I should look into music therapy, like, I don't even know why I thought that, um, And, and I just don't even know why, you know, um, and then I changed to a different school and, you know, got to that point where it's like, Okay. well, you have to pick a major, you know, whatever, you know, where are you focusing? And, and I was like, well. I like playing the violin. I mean, it was really, there was nothing else really calling to me.

Alex Gadd:

Mm hmm.

Diane Allen:

I just was like, well, I like playing the violin. So I think it was my senior year when I was like, okay, let's, let's do this. Um, but because I had had consistent training. At that point, I was living in Philadelphia, and there was this tiny little music school. The Philadelphia College of Performing Arts. And, uh, they had a tiny little high school branch. And so, for my senior year, I, along with 13 other students, I went to school there, but I took all freshman classes at the college. And I was like, okay, yeah, this feels like this feels like it. I was able to, to, um, do that. not go and pay college tuition to find out. Um, I was lucky enough to be able to figure that out when I was a senior in high school.

Alex Gadd:

Sure. So you then study through college, you study violin.

Diane Allen:

Yes, I went to Peabody Conservatory, which is now under the umbrella of Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore. And after two years of that and a very grumpy, violent teacher, there were two violent teachers at that school. They were really competitive with each other. They used the students to pit against each other. It was not, it was a really toxic environment. Um, I went to Manhattan school of music in New York, um, and had a phenomenal teacher. And then, uh, when I was done in New York, I went back to the Cleveland area and, um, did my grad degree for, Didn't have to pay for it. It was a teaching assistantship and got my master of music.

Alex Gadd:

Amazing. Where was your first professional? Job playing the violin.

Diane Allen:

While I was in New York, um, there's all kinds of freelance work, right. And so, you know, I was doing like, um, Oh, I can't remember. There was this, uh, opera company that would do obscure operas. Uh, and I played for them frequently. Um, my favorite gig though. You Ready. for this? St. Patrick's Cathedral St. Patrick's day.

Alex Gadd:

Sounds pretty good.

Diane Allen:

the, the, the, the priests were really smashed.

Alex Gadd:

But look, you have a guaranteed audience. You're going to play for thousands of people. That's amazing.

Diane Allen:

It was, it was, it's, it's an amazing building to play music at and you know, when you're. Yeah. The way it said that it's just a natural acoustic, you know, instrument in itself.

Alex Gadd:

sure. So you, you played there during your, your studies

Diane Allen:

Yeah.

Alex Gadd:

and then before your graduate degree, you had played professionally. That's pretty neat. That's

Diane Allen:

So lots of, um, lots of freelance work and I started teaching at a school. A friend of mine, um, had the job and she was done with it and she said, here, why don't you do this? So that's when I started teaching. So I think, um, I think it was around 25 or 24 when I started teaching violin. And I taught for 28 years. so when, uh, when I was in Cleveland, back to Cleveland for master's degree at, University of Akron, I, did a lot of freelance orchestras and my husband who plays the bass, um, we would joke that why did we buy a house because it would been better to have an RV, but anyways, from our house, two hours in any direction, you could get to a freelance orchestra. So, uh, we're, we were what we call the Freeway Philharmonic, where you're commuting and playing and yeah, so we, we were playing a lot of orchestral, um, you know, it was just all orchestral stuff. Uh, then a friend of ours told us about the Brit Festival, which is in Southern Oregon, and it's an outdoor amphitheater. They had a three week orchestra festival. And so my husband and I, we auditioned and we came out to Oregon. And in the orchestra, Oh, why am I blanking on his name right now? Oh, it'll come to me. Um, Dave. His name is Dave. Um, can't remember his last name. Dave also played bass in the orchestra. He, his father was the bass trombonist. In the Cleveland Orchestra. So when we're out at the Brit festival, we were performing Prokofiev and Juliet. And I went up to Dave and I said, I remember when I was little hearing this at Severance Hall and it was hair raising. And he said, yes, I was there too. He said it was the first. They had a new conductor. His name was Lauren Mazel and it was his first recording and they were, he was preparing the orchestra for their first recording. They were doing these concerts in preparation of the recording. And he said, he remembers it well, it was that special. It wasn't just me being, you know, young and impressionable. It really like a spectacular thing. And so that. was such an amazing group. Full circle moment for me. And, you know, it was just kind of funny because, my husband who also grew up in Cleveland, while I was doing all this classical music stuff, he was going to hear KISS at the Coliseum and, you know, hearing all of the rock and roll stuff that was coming out in the seventies that I, I never went to any of those, um, just wasn't interested.

Alex Gadd:

That was going to be one of my follow up questions is, where does pop music come into your life and, and in any way affect what, how your ear hears music or how you think about music?

Diane Allen:

Yeah. Uh, I, you know, it was just. I, there were so many decades of classical music. and I didn't really, yeah, I know Centuries. right? I didn't really pay attention to. Um, that much, you know, I, I remember things because maybe my mom liked, um, yeah, I remember when Al Jarreau came out. He was amazing. I remember when, um, Bobby McFerrin came out. I him at, um. Carnegie Hall when I was going to school there and oh my gosh, it was incredible. Um, and what else do I remember that even sticks out, not much, you know, of course, I remember Michael Jackson because it was just,

Alex Gadd:

Yeah. It was a phenomenon.

Diane Allen:

he was just, uh, you couldn't not notice Michael Jackson, Right.

Alex Gadd:

Right.

Diane Allen:

what he was doing. It was just so amazing. But I really like there, I have major, major, major gaps in my, uh, what was going on in pop music, um, because I was so, so, so dedicated to my studies. We took a trip last, um, last, uh, Yeah, it was just last March to Nashville. We'd never been to Nashville before and, um, we went to Nashville and, uh, we had, you know, we went to hear the Wood Brothers, which, you know, I've heard a few times, Pat Metheny, right, is a great favorite. Um, but we're in Nashville and, uh, so we picked out some things and there was this one night where we were Uh, we, we had a blank spot, um, we were planning and my husband was looking around and, and he says, listen to this band. And I was like, Oh, that's interesting. And it felt like a risk. All right, well, let's buy tickets. Let's just go. It kind of felt like a risk, you know, like, all right, we'll go. If we, after three songs, uh, we'll just leave. So we get there. It's one of these, you know, tight, tight venues where you can only stand and it's your sardine can. And, um, the opening band was not good. Um, then the main band comes out. I'm leaving the reveal, Right. Do you notice? The main band comes out. Similar experience to hearing Prokofiev and Juliet. Like, pinned by the power of it. Just like, just, it was so good. It was like, it was the loudest concert I've ever been to, but it was the best loud I've ever heard. It was really, really good. I was telling my husband, I said, if you're deaf, this is a concert to come to because feeling everything. Like my whole rib cage was, you know, a musical instrument. It was anyways, it was Dirty Loops. Do you know Dirty Loops?

Alex Gadd:

I do not, but this is why I do this podcast. I want to learn about new music.

Diane Allen:

oh.

Alex Gadd:

them out.

Diane Allen:

My gosh, Dirty Loops blew me away. I can't stop listening to them They are amazing. A year before we did a New York trip and it's because I wanted to hear Jacob Collier live. Um, and he was doing a concert with Maddie Cunningham and Chris Thiele. So, um, that was just the most amazing concert because, uh, those three people are just so grounded in humanity and it was like, the two of us were just sitting there with tears streaming down our eyes because it was so, you know, touching and, um, Amazing. That was at, uh, Lincoln Center. It was amazing, the acoustics. Uh, it was, it was, it was absolutely stunning.

Walk into bedroom just like a madock. Chasing in a circle, just like a madock chasing in a circle.

Alex Gadd:

All right. I have one question that I like to ask the few people I've had on who are violin players what's the difference between a violin and a fiddle

Diane Allen:

Oh, it's a style of playing.

Alex Gadd:

just style. Okay. And do you find any affinity for, for fiddle players in country music

Diane Allen:

I so appreciate it. We went to hear, oh gosh, here's another name. Oh my gosh. They play every Monday night in Nashville and it's a bunch of session players. They've been playing this gig for decades. And, um, Yeah. a lot of them are grand old Opry session people. And, um, Oh, I, I, so we, it was so enjoyable, so enjoyable to hear that kind of music played so well. Um, and I appreciate it for what it. is. It's not something I'm interested in learning, but.

Alex Gadd:

Got it.

Diane Allen:

it.

Alex Gadd:

it Now you mentioned Oregon at some point you became not just a member of their orchestra, but the concert master of their orchestra. Tell me a little bit about that. How did that come about?

Diane Allen:

I, uh, so my husband and I, as I mentioned, we're commuting once a year out to Oregon to play in the Brit Festival and we fell in love with Oregon. It's stunning Out here. Uh, you know, the freeway Philharmonic, uh, it takes a lot of time out of your day. Um, a

Alex Gadd:

Out of your year. I would imagine.

Diane Allen:

Yeah, just constantly driving. And, uh, so I had seen this is back in the day when there was still print magazines. Um, I guess there's still magazines now, but there was a Suzuki violin magazine. Our Suzuki teaching magazine and, um, just so people know, Suzuki is, uh, a master teacher who figured out how to, to teach students at a very young age and was able to gift the process to people. Um, it's known for, um, it's a bad rap for, for people playing like, um, robots. Just kind of playing the notes and they don't know how to read music. They do it all by ear. Um, nothing wrong with that, but anyways, uh, it's, it was like a huge contribution to the advancement of music. And so in my experience. In college, every year I was in college, as I advanced, the newest freshman group that came in played better than the previous freshmen. You could see, and it's never stopped, like the, the quality of teaching just, Has has constantly been on an upward trend, which is why you have so many so many virtuosos these days so many people who Who have such facility when you see these, you know, eight year old bass players playing on instagram and stuff, right? and they're rocking it and um You know, I, I witnessed seeing that happening, the, the advancement of teaching and so, um, anyway, so there was this magazine for, for the Suzuki method and they had ads in there 3 years in a row going out to Britt. I kept seeing. That they had a teaching job in Bend, Oregon. I was pregnant and my husband was running around that year, taking as many orchestra auditions as he could. And he's like, if I don't get in this year, I'm done. And, you know, he, he really tried to make it happen. And then he was like, yeah, I really am done, you know? So I, uh, My son was six weeks old. We got on an airplane. They flew us out to Bend, Oregon. Um, I auditioned. I spent the whole day teaching in front of a large room full of people. And the conductor of the orchestra was there and, uh, by the end of the day, I had not only a teaching job, but an orchestra job. Yeah.

Alex Gadd:

Tell me the name of the orchestra again. I'm sorry.

Diane Allen:

It's not even like a big orchestra. It's a Central. Oregon Symphony. And, uh, and, um, for those of you who are looking at this, You know, what I'm doing is I'm holding up a picture of the orchestra I used to play in and, um, you know, there I am. I'm second in command to the conductor. And so I, I was in the hot seat, right? If I was a good day or a bad day, that would ripple effect throughout the orchestra. So I, I had to be at the top of my game. I always had to play my best. And because we're talking about music, right, it's not just a, uh, you know, if you think about playing the violin, it's supposed to be one of the hardest instruments to learn. Um, there's An athletic part, right? Musicians are athletes, right? They,

Alex Gadd:

An endurance part for sure. Sure.

Diane Allen:

So, but then you're expected to interpret the music, right? And to, to give the audience a transformational experience, right? So that's, you know, at the intersection of intellect and heart, right? And so when, when you are. In that heart space, right? Um, when you're getting into the music, you are getting into what's scientifically called your flow state. And when you are coming from a deep sense of purpose and you're pouring your heart into it, whatever, however you want to call it, right? You're igniting the 40, 000 neurons in your heart. And when that happens, so the electromagnetic field of the heart is actually 60 percent greater than the electromagnetic field of the brain. Okay, and so when you are exuding your energy. through your heart, it reaches out three feet all around you. And so all of the people around you in your three foot circumference, they sense that and they sync up. It's so much easier to get into the music if somebody else next to you is getting into it, right? If there's one person who's not, they're just playing the notes like, yeah, that does not feel good at all,

Alex Gadd:

Right. That drags everybody

Diane Allen:

It drags everyone down. So, so, In my leadership role, I knew that if I could lead myself to get into flow, that it would impact everybody around me. Now they're, they're leading, you know, they've got their three foot circles, right? Now people around them sense it. It Just becomes this giant ripple effect. Now the audience, now the audience is getting engaged, right?

Alex Gadd:

Just like you did in, in, uh, back in Cleveland when you were

Diane Allen:

when I was in the audience, absolutely. Um, so, you know, in corporate world, they call that team synergy. Right. But we call it group flow

Alex Gadd:

I like that better. I like group flow much better.

Diane Allen:

and, I would just be so moved, especially during audience singalongs, cause you've had, you'd have a choir squished on stage behind the orchestra, and then you'd have the house lights up and the whole audience, you've got, you know, a couple, 3000 people out there singing. Um, I would be on stage, I'd have to turn my head sideways for the tears to roll down my face because there's something about unifying people through music that just cuts Me straight to the core, right? too. So, um, Yeah, so the flow state is a big deal. Um, and so the, in my role as the concert master, I had a lot of different things that I did. One of which was I had to lead, um, a small group of musicians to do cultural outreach concerts. And so we were at one of these events, like we're at this tiny little kind of farming community. There was, you know, two o'clock on a Saturday afternoon, matinee. We're at like a, uh, like a town hall kind of place, you know, community center. Nothing to be nervous about here. Right. And I had fallen in love with public speaking and yeah, this was like late in my career with the, with the Central Oregon symphony and, um, took Flow for granted. Right. It's just, yeah, you get on stage and it's there. You just get into the music done. So we're at this event and I get this idea. I'm like, I love public speaking. Why don't I do both? I'll speak to the audience and I'll play the violin. Why not? Right? So without any preparation, I just spontaneously go up there. I give a pre concert lecture, having a great time, turn around, sit down, give a big cue for the music to start. Alex, my elbows were frozen. Like it was the weirdest thing I had. For some reason, I had this stress response that never released all these stress hormones in my body. I was like, Whoa. What the heck is that? Right? So I know from a lot of experience that, you know, the mind game is first, right? Because if I start thinking, Oh no, right?

Alex Gadd:

Yeah, that's a quick

Diane Allen:

trouble, right? Um, I, if I started beating myself up on the spot, I knew that was only going to perpetuate the stress hormones. So it's like, okay, neutral mind. I'll beat myself up later. Right now, like, just meditate, right? So I was literally, literally, mantra. I'm like, just keep moving, just keep moving, just keep moving, right? And so my elbow's opening up, and you know, all of this, it feels like it's taking an hour, right? But it's really only a minute for me regain the full use of my arms. Okay, that happens. I'm like, alright, done. Moving on. But for some reason I could not feel the music And

Alex Gadd:

And so in the same performance, you went from a physical block to a mental,

Diane Allen:

me out. My, my colleagues, so it was a string quartet. There's, you know, me and the other three, they, you should have seen, they were looking over the music stands with wide eyes, I was like, Oh my gosh, they can't hear me, I'm not playing, you know, enough, right? Um, and I'm like, okay, now that means the audience really can't hear the melody either. So I, I, yeah, that was like, that was the day that I realized I couldn't take Flow for granted. Uh, I was sitting on the couch at night, uh, really feeling humiliated, uh, like my job security and reputation are now at stake, right. That thing that I was infallible about, you know, keep in mind, um, I did not use. Any alcohol or drugs to get into Flow at all. And I know it's a great entry point for a lot of people.

Alex Gadd:

I would think that that inhibits you from being or distracts you from getting

Diane Allen:

No, I think a lot of people use it to relax themselves to get there and, you know, a lot of my colleagues in, in college when they were auditioning were taking beta blockers and, you know, things to keep yourself from getting too nervous and all that stuff. Right? Um, anyways. That's the night I sat down and figured out how do I get into flow. and I reverse engineered it. Um, and ever since then, I have taken that body of knowledge. And now I do professional speaking and that funny looking violin behind me now is an electric violin. Um, I don't teach anymore. Don't play in an orchestra anymore. I do keynote speaking,

Alex Gadd:

Right,

Diane Allen:

for a lot of corporations and I'm teaching them how to get into their work. The way a musician gets into the music

Alex Gadd:

right. And I've seen some of those speeches. It's really quite something. You engage the entire audience. I saw one where you did a clapping exercise with the audience, and that was exceptional. And I could see how that would resonate with people. And before we go any further, you wrote a book. It's called

Diane Allen:

Oh, Look at that There it is. Yes.

Alex Gadd:

FLOW: Unlock your genius, love what you do. So you were a concert master of an orchestra. You were teaching violin. You had a moment that led you to. Look for a way to understand Flow so that you could harness it for your benefit.

Diane Allen:

Yes.

Alex Gadd:

How does that transition happen? So that today, you no longer are a concert violinist. You no longer are a concert, a violin teacher, but you still use the violin in your presentations often.

Diane Allen:

right.

Alex Gadd:

so me, just tell us a little bit about that

Diane Allen:

oh, gosh, it's a really dark time in my life. Um, so I, uh, um, I recently heard there's a name for it. It's called a polycrisis. Polycrisis is when you have different Crises. That's a funny thing to say, crisis. Different, I don't know plural. Crises. That the plural? Different kind of crises happening at the same time. They don't relate to each other, but because they're happening at the same time they end up exacerbating each other.

Alex Gadd:

Mm hmm. Compounding effect.

Diane Allen:

Yeah, so, um, I had three things going on. My mom had Alzheimer's. She needed a lot of help. My, my son, he was at the height of his teenage rebellion. It was kind of like the scariest time for a parent, you know, to not have control over what was going on. Um, and then, uh, I, I was literally on stage playing a Beethoven symphony, and I, I was not feeling the music and I thought, okay, this has nothing to do with getting into Flow at this point. Like, I am not feeling it. Um, I took a year's leave from the orchestra to see if I could figure it out. Um, during that time, my violin students started leaving me. Clearly I was just in this funk, right? There was a lot of things happening at once. It's really confusing to figure out what was going on. My first thought was, okay, I guess I'm done with the violin. And I had fallen in love with public speaking, you know, a few years prior. So I'm like, okay, so I'll focus on that. Dealing with my son, dealing with my mom, sold my gorgeous antique violin, gosh, sold it. It was so beautiful. Um, I sold all my music. I sold everything. I was done. Um, so fast forward a few years and I was at a film festival and we're watching a documentary about a group of counterculture artists who are questioning everything. If you are familiar with Meow Wolf, um, that's a series of museums. Um, called Meow Wolf, and these people were the originators of this museum concept. They were questioning who's to say this is art, who's to say this is not art, who's to say this art's valuable, this art's not valuable, who's to say that if we're going to run a museum, we have to have leaders, right? Yeah, we all lead. I mean, they were just questioning everything. And it was so riveting. I was like, Ooh, I couldn't, like, I couldn't stop thinking about it. And for some reason in the middle of the night, I felt the power of the violin coming on stage with me again. So that morning I. Called my friend, Janet, who was on stage with me the day that my elbows froze to see if she had a violin I could borrow. And if you know, Janet, of course she does. And of course the violin she has it's purple. So she shows up with the purple violin. I played some Bach and it's like, no. And then I played Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah. I'm like, Yeah. And that was the day I learned that I wasn't done playing the violin. I was done with classical music.

Alex Gadd:

Interesting.

Diane Allen:

can't even, I hardly listen to it anymore. I I'm so oversaturated with it. I really, it has just become, and some, you know, it is so it's old, you know, I mean, hundreds of years old. Right. And it's like preserving history. Right. And, and I don't relate to it anymore. I really, and I, I it was so confusing. Right.

Alex Gadd:

I imagine you've devoted your life to it up to that point.

Diane Allen:

so confusing. So, a week after I got the purple violin. I borrowed an electric. And then I started literally six weeks later, I was at a speaking engagement with this borrowed electric violin, playing some loops, playing my own music. Right. And, and incorporating it with the speaking without any elbows freezing. So it? was a very linear process to get to being a concert master of an orchestra. From the time everything fell apart. To, uh, you know, saying goodbye to the orchestra, saying goodbye to the teaching, right, uh, going through that process, saying goodbye to all of that. Like, like I, I call it the giant suck forward because it felt like I was being pulled forward. It was like, Oh, I feel the power of the violin coming back. Okay. Let's try this electric thing. Oh, I'm writing my own music. Oh, I'm doing it with the speaking. Right. It just, it was like, it was pulling me forward. I was following the breadcrumbs. Right. It was very different than a linear process. And, uh, anyways, the thing is, is that when I was 15 years old, You know, when I was saying, Oh, maybe I should look into music therapy, I actually have a very vivid memory of a time when I was. In my room, listening to a violin concerto, and in my imagination, it was as if I was the soloist, and I was the one pouring the core of my soul into every note I play. And, and I was really having a really, really, really deep Flow experience, just in the listening and imagining and all that. And for some reason, I've remembered that for all these years. And I was on this podcast interview with a colleague of mine, who's also a public speaker. And he's like, summarizing at the end of the podcast. He says, okay, Diane, so clearly you're not 15 in your room, blasting the music anymore. And after 28 years, you're done teaching violin. You don't even play in an orchestra anymore. But you do speak, which means you do stand center stage. You're the only one on stage. And you pour the core of your soul into every note you play and every word you say. And he says, from where I sit, it certainly looks like you've become the soloist. Blew my mind. I never saw it. But yet, I knew when I was 15 years old what that would feel like. And it's Exactly. what it feels like. As I'm speaking to you now and as I'm speaking to you on audiences. It is. That seed was always in me and the problem when we have Flow state moments is when we have those ideas and insights come in from out of the blue, what do we do? We're like, oh, that's unrealistic. That's a pipe dream. a daydream. Right. We dismiss it. We brush it under the rug. But that day when Tyler pointed it out to me, connected the dots that I couldn't see. I realized that to have these flow experiences, to really experience what you are truly capable of, and to not dismiss it. Yes, it doesn't look like that anymore. It looks very different. I'm speaking, I'm performing, right? Combining violin and piano. writing my own music, right? Playing electric, right? That looks way different than my 15 year old vision. But the nugget is the exact same. And that's why, um, You know, I would encourage any people who are listening to this, you know, how do you know when you're in Flow? You lose sense of time. You lose sense of self. Ideas And insights are coming in from out of the blue. Things are coming together with a sense of ease. You know, like those days you get more done in 30 minutes than you had in the last three days, know. You're in this positive feedback loop where the more you get into it, the more you get out of it. And there's a mental health component to it. Flow is under the umbrella of positive psychology. And when you're in Flow, you are experiencing more meaning, joy, and Fulfillment in everything that you do when you're in Flow. And so when you think of those times when you're experiencing those key indicators, don't dismiss it. Nurture whatever that experience is. Because that that's really showing you like a really unique part of yourself. And that's why when I teach about Flow education, how do you uniquely get into Flow is to know, um, your own unique thing that makes you tick your own secret sauce, right? That thing that really moves you. And you teach

Alex Gadd:

Corporate groups. What else do you do to spread the word about all that you've learned about flow? How does your professional life today manifest itself?

Diane Allen:

Well, it's been great. A blast doing all these podcasts with my book release. Um, so the book is a great way to get It out. You know, all this information out there, the book goes much more in depth than my speaking engagements do, but keep in mind, I'm a performer, right? And, uh, getting on stage, uh, that's where I want to be the most. Um, and yes, I could do coaching. Yes, I could do training. No problem. But I'm going to want to spend the majority of my time as much as I can, you know, on stage.

Alex Gadd:

Do you play violin every day still?

Diane Allen:

Almost.

Alex Gadd:

And what do you play when you play just for your own edification?

Diane Allen:

Yeah. Well, I was just talking to my husband about that. I'm a little, I need a little something else. You know, I have some warmups that I do. I have to maintain, you know, the physical aspect of it. And I do play with a Boss RC 500 looping station. I've got an octave pedal. I have a switch so that I can go, um, to different, um, memories on, on my, uh, looping station. Um, my husband wanted to know what I wanted for holiday gifts this year. And I was like, well, get me some new pedals. Maybe I could sound different instrument or something, you know? And he'll geek out on that cause he's a bass player. Right. And then there's somebody I know, uh, who just released a looping course for violinists, and I will be taking that. I think that'll be what I'm going to do and see if I can, you know, get some new ideas. But I do play Bach a little bit every day. Um, but that's the only classical music that I'm playing.

Alex Gadd:

Yeah, I saw another one of your videos, where you did four different lines of a single piece using your looping station. And it's so subtle how you transition from one section to the next I thought that you were very capable already with the looping station. I don't know. It was very good. I was very impressed.

Diane Allen:

Thank you. I appreciate it. There's, um, there's this thing called, um, Prepared Piano cause the piano is a percussive instrument. Um, it's considered a percussive instrument and there is, um, things that you could do to the piano. Like you could put things inside the strings and you can, you know, put. I don't know exactly what they do, but I've played music with prepared piano, but they do something to the piano where it could do all different kinds of sound effects. it turns out that, um, John Cage was writing a lot of experimental music, uh, back in the sixties and seventies. And there was this, pianist who helped him, uh, create and codify prepared piano stuff. And his son lives here in Bend, Oregon. This guy's a musical genius. He, um, I just heard him play three hours of nonstop looping and, uh, giant pedal board. He just sat down. He never even got up to use the bathroom or get a drink of water for three hours straight. He just played song after song after song. Dad was there. Who's his dad's a legend. And, um, that's another gift that I asked my husband for. I said, maybe I can take some lessons with Blake. His name is Blake Lowry.

Alex Gadd:

Okay. Let's get that to happen. I want to hear what you do after that.

Diane Allen:

Yeah. I get some juices flowing.

Alex Gadd:

anyone who's out there who's interested in learning more about Flow. First of all, the book, very easy to read and understand. It's not a complex book. The ideas seem obvious, once you read them, I realize, oh, that makes perfect sense. I get that, but I never put it together. So go out, check out this book. Uh, you have a website. I'm going to have some links in the episode information that you've provided for me so that if people are interested, they can find out more about your work and about you. I have one other question. Have you ever been to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

Diane Allen:

Yeah. It's a long time and was, it was near the beginning of, uh, When they first opened it, but Yeah.

Alex Gadd:

Did

Diane Allen:

absolutely. Yeah. it was really cool.

Alex Gadd:

Yeah. I can't wait. I'm dying to go. I've never been.

Diane Allen:

Oh, yeah, you have to go.

Alex Gadd:

It may be the first thing on my bucket list that I need to, the next thing that I need to do.

Diane Allen:

Yeah. you know, they've revitalized all of downtown Cleveland. There's a lot to do down there. So, um, Yeah, you'll have a great trip

Alex Gadd:

can't wait. Is there anything I didn't ask that I should have or that you'd like the audience to know about?

Diane Allen:

I'll just would love to leave you with my quote, which is get into your life like a musician gets into the music

Alex Gadd:

I love it. Diane, thank you so much for your time today. Uh, I'm really excited to be able to share your story with the audience and just getting to know you a little bit has been such a pleasure. So thank you for your time today.

Diane Allen:

Thanks for having me

Alex Gadd:

And that is it for today's conversation. Thank you for joining us. We'll be back next Tuesday. And if you like what you heard today, we'd appreciate it. If you would subscribe or follow to make sure you get notified about every new episode and please tell your friends. I'll Also, a reminder that we release a playlist for every episode. This one will be a little bit different, but well worth a listen. So look for the Rock-N-Roll Show Podcast Playlist on Spotify every week, featuring songs that we talked about today. Additionally, we want to know what you think. So please leave us a comment and we'll try to respond to every one of them. The Rock-N-Roll Show Podcast is a World Highway Media production. I'm your host, Alex Gadd. And until next time, remember that life is short. So get those concert tickets.