The Rock-N-Roll Show Podcast
The Rock-N-Roll Show Podcast celebrates the magic of live music through sharing personal stories. Each week, our guests will share their stories of different shows that were memorable and meaningful to them. We’ll also have concert reviews and conversations with musicians and crew members who put on those live shows. By sharing their stories, we hope to engage you - our audience - to relive your live music memories also. So please join us every week as we explore the transformative power of live music that makes attending concerts not just entertaining, but essential. This is The Rock-N-Roll Show Podcast, where every concert tells a story.
The Rock-N-Roll Show Podcast
Nick deMatteo - The Interview, pt. 2
This week, I invite multi-talented musician and producer Nick deMatteo back for a second in-depth conversation. This time, Nick discusses his recent album 'Kite to Camden' and his career pivot to becoming a songwriting coach. Tune in to learn about Nick's approach to sync licensing, his passion for songwriting, and the unique service he offers to help aspiring songwriters realize their musical visions. Whether you're an avid musician or a fan of Nick's work, or you have that song that you just need to get out into the world, it's all here for you, this week on The Rock-N-Roll Show Podcast!
00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
02:53 Catching Up with Nick
04:21 Understanding Sync Licensing
08:48 Diversifying Income Streams
14:35 The Birth of Song Coaching
18:20 Understanding the Song Coaching Process
20:02 Remote Song Coaching Services
23:44 Promoting the Song Coaching Business
29:39 The Broader Impact of Song Coaching
37:19 Final Thoughts and Contact Information
Connect with Nick at: https://nickdematteo.com
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Welcome to the Rock-N-Roll Show podcast. I'm your host Alex Gadd, and I do this because I love talking about music with people. Finding out what kind of music someone's into and how they got into music in the first place allows us to get to know and understand one another better. Today I'm excited to have my first return guest, Nick deMatteo. Nick is an actor and producer in both film and theater, as well as being the singer, songwriter and producer for his band<REC>. They've released 11 albums now since 2004, the most recent being last year's Kite to Camden. Additionally, he has a multimedia project called Music Is Not a Genre, which includes original music and a YouTube channel that includes a podcast, and that is the only podcast that I've been a guest on to date. That was, episode six from his seventh season. So if you want to go check that out, please do. Now. Nick has started a new project. He's a song coach, and I can't wait to hear all about what he's been up to and what his song coaching business is all about. So stick around for my latest conversation with Nick deMatteo coming up right now. Nick. Thanks for being here today.
Nick DeMatteo:I'm great. For having me back. It's good to see you again.
Alex Gadd:You too. Really good to see you. So when we last spoke, you were just about to release Kite to Camden. I know you were planning to go out on and do some shows to support that, that was last fall. So catch us up on what you've been up to and then we'll get into the song coaching.
Nick DeMatteo:Sounds good. Yeah, so, so what I did last year was I released Kite to Camden on Bandcamp, which if you go to rec area.bandcamp.com, you can find it there. And uh, that was kind of a soft launch. Then, uh, earlier this year, I wanna say it was June. I don't remember the exact date. Uh, I released Kite to Camden worldwide on all the streaming services, et cetera. If you go to nick deMatteo.com/music, you can get all the links there. And, uh, we've released a bunch of singles from the album, the most recent being the song"Me Happy." And, I'll be releasing one more related, uh, song. It'll be a remix of the song,"You Know, You're uh, by the end of the year. And yeah, we did some shows and all of that. I've got one kind of, I would almost say it's the, uh, valedictory show coming in, at the end of January, January 26th, at a place Ottos Shrunken Head here in the city, and I will be presenting the album in its entirety. Using modified backing tracks, and I'll be singing and playing some instruments and making it almost like a, a combination, uh, music show and theatrical presentation.
Alex Gadd:Wow. I want to go. All
Nick DeMatteo:All right. Good.
Alex Gadd:So while you're doing that, you've started a new endeavor and that's song coaching, I can imagine what song coaching is, but why don't you just lay it out there and tell us what you're doing with this.
Nick DeMatteo:Okay. Yeah, so about, it's been about a year and a half. I've been working with an amazing business coach, who caters to everybody, but specializes in working with people who are in the arts and in music in particular. And like any coach, she, you know, goes over the actual particulars of business and how to set things up, et cetera, but also works on what motivates you and what kind of gets you to the next place you want to go to. And we agreed that the thing that has always been the most important to me. Uh, is my music, the, the songs being a singer, songwriter, producer, put those three things together. That's, that's me in a nutshell. And because I have such a passion for it, I'm so connected to it. One of the things I've always wanted from that is, uh, something you may have talked about with other people called sync licensing. So, I've done, I've gotten some of my songs on films and, and television and things like that over the years. Podcasts, various projects, mostly indie projects, and I've been pursuing a sync licensing deal for years, happy.
Alex Gadd:you tell everyone in the audience what it is so that everyone's up to speed?
Nick DeMatteo:That's a good idea. Yeah.
Alex Gadd:license?
Nick DeMatteo:So let's say you create music. You record the music. If you are watching a movie, TV show and you're hearing some music in the background, a commercial even. If it's a song that, you know, let's say somebody the, the, you know, a Radiohead or something like that, very common that a more popular band, more popular songs will be used if that company can afford to use it. But very, very, very often, these, productions look for. Independent music and that sync licensing means they're synchronizing the music to picture, to film, to television, again, to web, to commercial, anything that has a video component to it. But also audio again, like I've done podcast, uh, theme songs and things like that. And you. It, it tends to be for a musician because streaming revenue is so almost non-existent. And, uh, revenue from touring or performing can be difficult to, you know, make your nut, let's say just get over your expenses, that if you can get into sync licensing, you have a living, you're making a living. So,
Alex Gadd:Right. It's passive income
Nick DeMatteo:yeah. Yeah. Passive income. Exactly.
Alex Gadd:Good. So you're working with someone to get more placements, or do you have a deal in place, or do we want to cast a wider net on this podcast to find you a deal?
Nick DeMatteo:mean, hey, if you, you know anybody? Yeah. So what happened was I, I saw another colleague, um, work with the company and I said, I'm just gonna reach out. And like most of the outreach, you almost never hear back. And I heard back, but then I didn't hear back, and then I didn't hear back again. And then I. I re-approached it, uh, from a, just, I had, I had a brainstorm again'cause of this business coach and because of the work we're doing on the song coach, and I'll explain how that's connected to all this. And, what happened was, the person said, well, we're only looking for this one specific kind of music, which in this case is a lot of productions are looking for nineties music. And she's like, I love your new album, but that's not gonna, there's, that doesn't, there's no fit for what we're looking for. And I said, oh, well, I happen to have been recording since the nineties. Uh, and, short, long story short, just for those, two eps and one album, I now have a sync deal with this company.
Alex Gadd:Cool.
Nick DeMatteo:yeah,
Alex Gadd:great.
Nick DeMatteo:very,
Alex Gadd:beginning. Once you start getting placements it, I imagine it tends to build up,
Nick DeMatteo:That's, yeah, I think once you get a, it's just like anything, once you get a reputation for being a go-to person for something, then you get more of that, I mean, that's the hope. So it's just in the beginning stages of that. But, you know, a lot of this, this is a fortunate thing and hopefully it will come to, you know, something. But a lot of it takes both time and money. And time is something, you know, if you have it, you use it as much as you can because the effort that you're putting into finding what you want is, is how you get it. That's, you have to be consistent and, and diligent and, and all of that. The money is, is this that most outlets for sync licensing ask you to pay. And so if you wanna submit a song to a film, they'll say, we have this, and oh, I have the perfect song. Well, it can be anywhere from five to$25 per song submission. So you need a, you need a little kitty there off to the side that doesn't go towards your bills and rent to pay for the pursuit of sink licensing. I hate the model, but it's a model that's been around for at least 25 years at this point. There was a, a company that kind of, started it all sort of called taxi, that anybody who's done original music knows that name and I've avoided taxi for years because. It used to be that for the most part you could find sync licensing without having to pay for it. But like most models these days, if you want something, you have to put some money in. So my business coach and I said, Hey, you know, what's a good way to make this revenue doing something that you still love that's still connected to what you're doing. But that it, it's, it's sort of off to the side that doesn't put all of the burden on that one singular pursuit, which may take years. Yeah.
Alex Gadd:diversify. Diversify is always a good
Nick DeMatteo:That, that's so true. I, and I love that. I, I had a, a production partner, good friend, for over a decade, and that was our goal. This was years ago. Uh, we worked from like'03 to 2015 or 16, and we always talked about. Let's quit the day job. Or if we can't quit it, at least diversify and have more than one thing going on. And what happened, one of the things that led to this song Coach business is that in 2018, I had been working at the Bronx Zoo for over a dozen years and I was, manager of the Auto Visual department. It was a nice career and everything, but, and I didn't, I knew that wasn't what I wanted, but it was supporting things. You know
Alex Gadd:Mm-hmm.
Nick DeMatteo:then it took a, it took a lot of time and, and effort and, and you had to push other things to the side or things you wanted to do. Just took longer, you know, which is kind of what happened to me. And in 2018 I was let go and, uh, then I, for about a year or two thought, well, let me get another job just like that.'cause I can do it. I've got the resume for it. And. There were no jobs out there. Anything like what I did at the zoo that would have paid anywhere near the amount of money, it just wasn't worth it. I did a couple for a couple of months and then the pandemic hit and I said, well, there's never been a better time to, re reinvent what's going on, I'm finally going to do that diversification model and see how many things I can throw at the wall and whatever sticks will be, what will, you know, help me make a living, and so I, I started my podcast in 2019 and over the last two years, started to monetize that to a certain degree.
Alex Gadd:I'm still waiting for that, you're giving me
Nick DeMatteo:oh. I have a recommendation after, after the fact I can give to you. That's, uh, that's working pretty well for me so far. And you know, music, I've done performance. I'm now currently in. I think five bands. So
Alex Gadd:You still doing the Beatles, uh, fab fo
Nick DeMatteo:I'm doing the Prefab four Beatles. We're, we're doing another band called 1989, which is, you know, eighties, nineties music, seventies music a little bit.
Alex Gadd:Right?
Nick DeMatteo:And then we're, do we do another one called Gin Fizz, which is jazz. And then I'm in a band called Joy Buzzer, which is another guy's original project, and he's actually signed to Steven Van Zandt's record label. So.
Alex Gadd:Wicked Cool.
Nick DeMatteo:Of Yes. Wicked cool. Exactly. Yeah.
Alex Gadd:Yeah.
Nick DeMatteo:Oh, you know your stuff. Uh, and he wanted to start another band, that is a Fountains of Wayne cover band, which is,
Alex Gadd:saw some, Instagram posts that you were puttin' up there about that, so I wanted to ask you about that too. One of my favorite bands from this century.
Nick DeMatteo:that's awesome. I, yeah. Same with us. I mean, the three of us. Love it. The drummer's a friend, so he's part of Joy buzzer, so he came along for the ride, but we are, we've just been in love with that band since their first album in 96, you know? Yeah. And so we did our first show this past weekend. It went incredibly well. And, and then, so there's,
Alex Gadd:great.
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah. And, we have another one December 20th, so it's, you know, it's a going thing.
Alex Gadd:that one? Tell
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah.
Alex Gadd:to come see
Nick DeMatteo:Okay.
Alex Gadd:this is a good
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah. So that was, so December 20th. At Parkside Lounge on Houston Street. So in, in New York City. Yeah. And then the sixth band, I guess is my band<REC>, which, you know, fills out the roster. And, and so those are some of the ways I, diversify, make money, and then I edit other people's podcasts, and, uh, I do voiceovers and I, I did a. Commercial for a HVAC company upstate two months ago or so, three months ago. So all the little things that helped to, bring it in. But my business coach was like, what can you do? That's that one thing that really is, is solid. And she kept saying, well, you're a musician. Why don't you teach? And and I said, I did that for 10 years and I never want to do it again. It, it burnt me out.
Alex Gadd:giving lessons to people?
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah. I did, I did piano teaching some voice and guitar and bass and theory and, I mean, a lot of the kids were wonderful and I had some adult students too. Um, the, the, the parents were a little more difficult to work with than the kids at times.
Alex Gadd:I can imagine,
Nick DeMatteo:And, and so eventually when I, that was when I was living in New Jersey, when I moved to the New York City, I quit that. I mean, I had to, that all my students were down there and it was one of the best moves because I, at that point, I knew that I couldn't do it much longer. So I had been avoiding.
Alex Gadd:burns people out and it doesn't scale. It's not a scalable business. It's just how many hours in a day can you get lessons?
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah, that's, God, that's a great point. Absolutely. I mean, you know, I, the fact, Jed, the guy who writes the songs for Joy. Buzzer is also a teacher by day and he says the same thing. Now the only thing that scales as you can raise your rates. That rate raising is not that, you know, it's, five, 10% a year or whatever. It's,
Alex Gadd:a game changer.
Nick DeMatteo:exactly, exactly.
Alex Gadd:your tax bracket
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah. And I knew, okay, so she said, but you've done it. Why don't you do that? And I, and I was like, Hmm, maybe. No, no. And other people were saying the same thing. And then I just gave it up and said, I can't talk about this. Let's talk about something else. So for a few months we were just talking about, sync licensing and some other things, and then. She brought it up again, and I don't know why, but it was like that. My back brain had been working on the problem or something and it just out of nowhere popped. I'm going to teach songwriting. There's nothing I love more than creating a song and taking something that I have. So I have this here, this, this is an old, old notebook. This is a notebook from the nineties. Early two thousands where I was writing songs in it to perform acoustically at coffee shops and things like that. And it, earlier this year, I decided I'm gonna do a project that is not a wreck project called, Valley of the Unreleased. And it's gonna be about 30 to 50 old songs that I never, ever recorded or I recorded on a four track that, you know, wasn't up to par. And I'm gonna. Take them, hone them and record them and put them out next year. And in doing that, it, it made me realize that part of the art of songwriting and the craft really is just because you think an idea is, is crap or is un unbaked or there's a germ in there that intrigues you, but you can't seem to put it together. Doesn't mean that that's a dead song. There are always ways to get that song into shape.
Alex Gadd:I have six composition notebooks filled with. Bad or mediocre songs and lyrics mostly that I've never done anything with, like I just have song after song after song and I have no idea. I have no way to parse which ones are good anymore.'cause I've been living with many of them since the early nineties. Yeah.
Nick DeMatteo:Right. See? Yeah, exactly. And what, what I found really interesting about going back to these old songs was some of them, I mean, I'm fortunate in that there were at least a few songs throughout my career that gelled enough to be, you know, that I would say were worthy of recording and releasing and all of that. But it made me realize how many, dozens and hundreds of songs, or partial parts of songs and things. I have a, I have a freezer bag of, uh, lyrics, little lyric scraps and things that I just keep in a drawer somewhere and I'm like, wow, I forgot about all this. And, and to see, like now going back to those and saying, I know what I should have done with that one, or, I know why I abandoned that one and that was never going to work. You know, and, and, and all of that to feel the development of. I, I really understand what it takes, like you talk about your, you know, songs that I could look at them and have a conversation with you and say, well, what did you intend with this? What were you trying to do? Where were you going? And what kind of song did you envision this to be? Was, is it just the idea of writing it as a complete song? Did you want it to sound. Like a country song or like a pop song or, or what have you, because there are certain different, you know, structural elements and things like that and, and considerations. And then taking all of that into consideration your, your original intent and in, in terms of where it comes from inside of you and the style you want it to be. Then start, honing it and putting it together to the point where, it becomes a song that. That I, and I say it on the site, the best version of the song that you, that you could want. And, and,
Alex Gadd:Right
Nick DeMatteo:and part of that is,
Alex Gadd:like you're gonna be my song
Nick DeMatteo:all right, there you go. Hey. All right. I got, got a client. Uh, so,
Alex Gadd:a
Nick DeMatteo:so yeah. So, so I've been working over the years I've been working and there's at the bottom of the page, which is nickdematteo.com/thesongcoach, is, um, testimonials. And it's testimonials. People I've worked with over the years prior to even starting this, this business formally, and they're wonderful people is all I can say. And, and really what it helps to illustrate is that I don't go in and write my version of your song. That's not, that is not the idea. If, if somebody said, I have raw material, I, I don't wanna do anything with it, you take it. Sure I'll take it and create a song out of it. That's, that's something I would do. But the songs I created for them were, what is it that you want from that? It's not my job to say, oh, I can whip this into shape and, make it into the best whatever music I like. It's okay. You wanted this to be as raw punk as possible. There's this guy, coincidentally, his name is Alex, and I've worked with him for years and years creating, uh, originals and cover tunes and things. And he is not, he can't play an instrument. He's teaching himself to sing. He's an actor, so he is very presentational, so he wants it raw and punk, where he can just scream everything. And he brings these lyrics and says, I want it to kind of sound like this, but I want it to do this. All right, let's get started. And we come into the, you're looking at, you know, one end of my studio right now. We come right in here and start, you know, working the song, working the song, and then eventually recording it and back and forth until it's how he wants it to be. And so far the people I've worked with have really been satisfied with the results,
Alex Gadd:So I have
Nick DeMatteo:yes.
Alex Gadd:and, and you tell me if I'm on the right track or you describe it for my audience and, we'll, will help me understand it better and hopefully send out the, the call to the, the masses that, you're out there offering this service. So the first question I have is, you can do this remotely. I assume you don't have to be, in New York City to do this with you. Is that correct?
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah, that's right. And in fact the only link on that page is book a free 30 minute call and it's there like six times. So the first call is, let's just talk and see what's going on with you and is this a right fit for you? Is it the right fit for me? You know, a little back and forth to see where we both stand. And after that, that model can can stand, which is, it would be a one hour session on Zoom or Riverside or whatever service, is comfortable for both of us. And we can work completely remotely in that way. Yeah.
Alex Gadd:Great. The second question. Just in case anyone is, I wouldn't say delusional, but has very strong aspirations of finding success as a songwriter. Do you claim partial songwriting credits when you help someone shape their song?
Nick DeMatteo:That's, see that's a great question because, so I had done an original version of this site that had. More detail and the coach was like, save that. Use that as like a secondary pamphlet or something that you can use with more information. And one of those questions was answered, which is the initial model is I don't contribute anything to the song lyrically, uh, that would be of substance. Let's say if you come to me and you don't know anything about chords and, and, you know, structure or need some help on melody. I will guide you to find the things that you need and, and I'll be honest, suggesting chords to me for me doesn't constitute a songwriting credit. It just that, you know, when we get to the recording stage, that's a bit of a different story because if, if I, well actually, it may not be in that you're paying me for a certain number of sessions. I am a session musician. I'm a session producer, I'm a session, whatever you might say, my
Alex Gadd:all work for
Nick DeMatteo:exactly all work for hire. Now, if you, if we're working and working and you find, and you say, at some point I am stumped. I don't know what to do. I need you to write this next verse, then we enter into some kind of other agreement. But I will say that every single person I've worked with so far, that has not happened once And, and why?
Alex Gadd:not your goal,
Nick DeMatteo:not my goal, not even remotely
Alex Gadd:purpose,
Nick DeMatteo:it. It complicates things in a way that's not good for either of us. And it takes away that main objective, which is you want to come away with a song that's come from your heart and soul and brain, and it's yours. Right? So I don't wanna contribute.
Alex Gadd:Yeah.
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah.
Alex Gadd:Yeah. I, that's a big part of it. So that will, I imagine allay a lot of fears. For people who have less experience and understand less about how the business works, but still want to get their own songs out, you're, they're not giving them away or giving away a slice of it, because that's not really what it's about for you. It's about helping someone realize their dream, their vision, their art.
Nick DeMatteo:And in fact if they do want to get to the point where they want to, you know, fully record it, which is not a necessity, that's kind of an after the fact. Our sessions are about creating the song and making it as great as it can be. But if they want to go further with the recording, I will even help them. Place it, distribute it so that it's out in the world and it will be under whatever their artist's name is and the information that's put in, in, in that distribution portal will be all theirs.
Alex Gadd:So what do you see as the biggest hurdle to getting. Your business out there, what, what are you doing to, to promote it other than coming on this incredibly popular podcast right
Nick DeMatteo:that's it.
Alex Gadd:Uh, what else are you doing to promote, the service?
Nick DeMatteo:Oh. Oh. Well, I thought, I actually thought this would just give me all the business I needed, so yeah.
Alex Gadd:will.
Nick DeMatteo:Okay, good, good. Well, that's, you know, that's exact, and that's really the, this business coach, by the way, her name is Jas Bianchi, and she works for,
Alex Gadd:Yeah, let's give her a plug for
Nick DeMatteo:it, it's a company called Finders, F-I-N-D-R-S. And like I said, she's, if she's your kind of people, which she is, my kind of people, you will hit it off with her immediately and just want to work with her. And she's been just a. I mean a gift for the last year and a half, two years, and so part of it is setting it up, understanding my motivation the way I would with a songwriter so that as much of me comes out in the creation of the business that gives that personal connection. And then test marketing it. I've sent out, several dozen emails to, other executive coaches, to firms and, places that might, uh, benefit from this kind of a service, and seeing what the feedback is, and then finding those, um, ideal customer, uh, avatars. They, they would call them and targeting them. Very specifically and
Alex Gadd:Marketing personas, basically
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, and so, it could be anybody, but if you want a certain type of sustainable business and a certain type of clientele, then you need to think along those lines. And I'm just really parroting what she taught me, and we've come just recently across the fact that there are four. Kind of ideal clients for this business. So we're taking that information and, creating marketing and phone scripts, things like that. If we do the free 30 minute call, whatever it is, to eventually to spread far and wide. Social does something, it doesn't do a lot of things, but eventually advertising and stuff like that and, and target marketing the way I've been doing with the emails, and the more we hone those down to those four, you know, avatars, I think that's what she's saying is that's the closest, that's where you'll get to the point where you're going to get a, you know, your client's coming in and then, then it's, you know, word of mouth after that.
Alex Gadd:I have a couple more questions. When someone works with you, do they come away any recorded material? Do you like cut a demo track with them, or is that additional not necessary to completing an engagement with you?
Nick DeMatteo:It isn't necessary, and it's something that we can lay out from the beginning. So, you know, after that 30 minute call and we say, okay, let's do it. Then the, the general model for this is six one hour sessions over however long a stretch you, you want, I, I don't think you should do more than one a week. If you wanna spread them out every two weeks, a month, what it takes you to get to the next stage, fine. But within those six sessions, if you say, I want to come away with a great song by the fourth session, or a song I like by the fourth session, and use those last two sessions to, record a demo version of it, then we can do that. But that is not necessary.
Alex Gadd:I mean, you can't guarantee that'll work though,
Nick DeMatteo:No. No, and that's the thing that's part of the process is the only thing I can, the only thing I can guarantee is that you will come away from those sessions knowing more about songwriting than you ever did before. And with a song that is better than it was, and, and not just better than it was, but complete, like it is a song that you will feel confident that you can share with others and feel good about it,
Alex Gadd:Then the last question I have about the actual service is, you help your your clients, um, submit their songs that are now finished, quote unquote, to any professional bodies so that they can actually register them and protect them, for copyrights?
Nick DeMatteo:So what I'll, so what I would do, depending on what they want from me, if they say, where do I submit? I'll give them all the info because part of this six sessions is. They can email me as much as they want and I will feed them back the information they're asking for. That's, there's no, no limit to that. If they, if they wanna do that themselves, I'll say, go to BMI or ASCAP, or CSAC, if anybody using that and go to CD BABY or Distro kid, or Tune Core, whatever, if you wanna distribute and all of those and show them. This is what you put in, et cetera. If they're in the middle of it, they have questions I can, answer them. That's part of it. If they want me to do it, then that's another. Okay, well, we'll add on to that, those six sessions and it's, that's, it's a, you know, kind of a rate for that. And I'll just do that for them,
Alex Gadd:okay. Well that, that for me kind of rounds out a good vision of what the offering is, and I hope for everyone who's
Nick DeMatteo:Great.
Alex Gadd:And then also as you noted at the beginning, you're, it helps with references.'cause once you have a couple of good references, they spread the word for you and they become your marketing arm.
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah.
Alex Gadd:how you're seeing it as well?
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah. And in fact, this coach I worked, I, uh, talked to recently, because part of what I'm trying to do is sort of do partnerships where it's like, well, if you know clients and I know clients and we can refer them to each other because we're offering different things, but they're related enough that they might benefit from it as well. And, and she said.
Alex Gadd:create a network
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah. Network. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And she had some insights to what I'm doing that even my business coach didn't have because she's, been doing it for so many years and works very much with, corporate world, and one of the, one of the things she said was, well, two things. One was a. She has never heard of another coach who does this, who's using a song as a model. Yeah. So, which for some reason surprised me. I dunno why, I guess.'cause I'm not, I haven't really been part of that world for very long. But she also said that it's not just the benefit of. I have this passion that I've hidden because I'm a, you know, lawyer or, or in finance or what have you, and I haven't had the time or energy or confidence to want to do anything with these songs, which is, that's to me in and of itself is worth it. But it's also. What you learn from finding ways to express yourself like this and, and part of that coaching process is getting at the core of where you are coming from and what might have been even holding you back from writing this song is can be translated and transferred into other parts of your life. So if you are a lawyer who's, litigating and you're up in front of a court and you, you're reading from the paper and that's, you've done really well with the writing, but your presentation is, is a little bit, in need of, fine tuning, learning how to express yourself from that other place, from song, song words. Often come from someplace you, you don't really understand. You don't know how you got them there. And they often tell you things about yourself and your world that you could never have figured out otherwise. And if
Alex Gadd:couldn't agree with you
Nick DeMatteo:so, yeah, you would know this. And if you tap into this, that, and, and I've found that even with me, the reason I got this recent sync licensing deal is because my coach helped me tap into a certain mode of expression on a. Business level that enabled me to understand what it was that the sync licensing person needed, and how we could connect in a way that went beyond just, I'm asking you for this and please give it to me. And, and that's what sparked that connection. And I, I firmly believe, because it's one of the things that has helped improve my confidence from being this guy who was in a day job who. I had been doing music my entire life and nobody knew I was doing music because I didn't have the confidence to be like, well, I'm not just an AV manager. I'm also a, you know, musician to getting to the point now where that's the only thing I will tell people I do. If they ask me, I say, well, I'm a singer songwriter, producer. And then if they inquire more, say, well, I do these five other things too, but, but that getting to that level of confidence it comes from understanding what it is that was preventing you from just being that person and saying that thing and expressing it in a way that other people can understand. And to me, that last part that's the essence of, of a good song is expressing what you want in a way that other people can understand and relate to.
Alex Gadd:That is very interesting. I know. In the business world. I know people who have gone and done community theater to get more confident presenting. This is another avenue for that. If you can put your words down in a way that's not just a stream of consciousness, blurting out of all your thoughts, but can actually arrange them into concise, verses and meter and a pattern of any kind
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah.
Alex Gadd:that. Has value in the business world in lots of different applications,
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah. And, and to me there is almost a drama to it in, in relation to theater in that. Look, there are, there are writers who are as straightforward as you could possibly be, and I love, I love those kinds of writers. Their language is colloquial, and yet they're saying things that may go beyond what they're saying, but it's very clear. But then there are writers who are super esoteric and poetic and, and that's also, it's difficult to do and I admire that as well. I, I think there's a sweet spot where you can put in a line or two or three of something that's esoteric and then bring it all around to this clear nugget of, just knowing exactly what it is you're communicating. And a pop goes in the brain of the listener where you're like, all of that stuff meant this. And if you can, you can do that in a song. And, and part of my, coaching is to not just get that one song into shape, but to teach you how to do it again and again and again.
Alex Gadd:Right,
Nick DeMatteo:get that skill in a song that can translate into other parts of your life where you say, let me tell you a story. And then you start, and it's this short story that people are like, why are they saying this? And then you bring it around to your point and they're like, oh my God, I can't believe.
Alex Gadd:You nail it with a big finish. Yeah.
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah.
Alex Gadd:That's great. Speaking of, because everything in my podcast ends up coming back to Bruce Springsteen, have you seen the new Deliver Me From Nowhere
Nick DeMatteo:No, not yet. Not yet.
Alex Gadd:because it really should have been marketed very differently.'cause really what it is, is a songwriter's journey to finding
Nick DeMatteo:Oh.
Alex Gadd:right voice. For lyrics and for ideas and for songs ultimately. Um, and how do you get those out in a way that feels true to you? And then do you consider the commercial nature of them or
Nick DeMatteo:Hmm.
Alex Gadd:um, it's really what that movie is about. And while it's not a great movie for a songwriter or a musician, it is a great movie because it does really capture the torment that even one of the greatest songwriters of, the 20th century, went through to get out these ideas that were on the surface, very unlike the rest of his body of work. But really were a reflection of where he was as a person and his backstory as an, as a young man and as a child, and then merging that in into his adult already successful life. Uh, so I think you'd enjoy it because what you've been describing is kind of like, boy Springsteen should have had a, a song coach during that period. It really would've helped him shape some of these ideas instead of torturing himself night after night trying to figure it
Nick DeMatteo:Wow. It, it, that's the, like the early eighties period. Is that
Alex Gadd:Yeah, it was right after the river, so 81, when he was writing the Nebraska.
Nick DeMatteo:okay? Yeah. Yeah. I,
Alex Gadd:the born in the USA album simultaneously, two albums that couldn't be more different, where all the songs were written at the exact same
Nick DeMatteo:oh my God.
Alex Gadd:It's fascinating.
Nick DeMatteo:Honestly, I, you know, I'm very, uh, mostly cold with biopics because you can dramatize anything you want, but put enough of reality in there that you really feel like you're connecting with the real person. But just for the whole songwriting angle and that kind of journey, I think I really need to see this.
Alex Gadd:You need to, or at least Warren Zanes is the author of the book that the movie was based on called Deliver Me from Nowhere. That
Nick DeMatteo:Ooh,
Alex Gadd:very insightful and goes much deeper into the challenges and the, the conflicts and all the other things, but either one, you should check it out because, I think you'll recognize things that resonate with you very, very clearly.
Nick DeMatteo:it sounds like I will. Yeah. Yeah.
Alex Gadd:So again, we're gonna, we're gonna put up your website on the screen. We'll put it in the description of the episode, but why don't you tell everyone what it is again and, uh, how they can get to you to book that 30 minute intro meeting.
Nick DeMatteo:Great. Yeah, so the, the hub is nickdematteo.com and that's, everything's there, whether it's music or voice or this, and in particular, if it, if you go to nickdematteo.com/thesongcoach, all one word. Then you can find out everything you'd wanna know and, there's a video there that's 20 some minutes. That's it. It explains it all in a, in kind of a more connected way. And then, right. Any link that you, click, you get a free 30 minute call, or way at the bottom. You can contact me directly via email if you have questions even before the call.
Alex Gadd:Cool.
Nick DeMatteo:Yeah.
Alex Gadd:What else do I need to know? What else didn't I ask you about your new project that I should have?
Nick DeMatteo:Oh, I don't know. I mean, I feel like we've covered everything. I loved being on your show last year and I was really excited when you had me back, so it's always good.
Alex Gadd:to have you back and I'm really excited to come see you. And maybe it's the Fountains of Wayne Band that I'd come to see you for,
Nick DeMatteo:Okay.
Alex Gadd:the Kite to Camden full one man show that you're planning to do in January. But yeah, thank you Nick so much for being on the show and I look forward to hearing how this goes next year when we talk again.
Nick DeMatteo:Thank you for having me. It's a real pleasure.
Alex Gadd:And that's it for today's conversation. We've been talking with Nick deMatteo about his various projects and his song coaching business. My thanks to Nick and to you for joining us, and if you'd like what you heard today, I'd appreciate it if you would like and either subscribe or follow to make sure you get notified about every new episode. And please tell your friends. Additionally, I want to know what you think, so please leave me a comment and I'll try to respond to all of them. The Rock-N-Roll Show Podcast is a World Highway Media production. I'm your host, Alex Gadd, and until next time, remember that life is short, so get those concert tickets. I would love to see you live and meet you in person. But also I love Fountains of Wayne, so,
Nick DeMatteo:I love that you have that that commonality with me. That's
Alex Gadd:yeah.
Nick DeMatteo:not everybody knows anything besides Stacey's mom, so I appreciate that.