A story about hiding secrets in a in violin case with Kate Isobel Scott

Kate Isobel Scott joins us on the podcast as we tell our tales about learning challenges. To find out more about Kate visit her website https://www.kateisobelscott.com

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To find out more about R.A. Spratt visit raspratt.com
To find out more about Jacqueline Harvey visit jacquelineharvey.com.au
To find out more about Tim Harris visit timharrisbooks.com

Transcript

0:04

Hello and welcome to real stories with random writers. I'm Ra Sprat and I'm here with Jackie Harvey and not Tim Harris. He's at home in Sydney. We're all at the Somerset Writers festival at the Gold coast. And Tim wasn't invited. I'm sure he came last year or he'll be here next year. We all get invited every year, but they tend to rotate you in years of three. And this year it's me and Jackie and also our friend Kate, Isabel Scott. She's the special guest today. Hello, Kate. Yay. Now, Kate's a bit special because she's an illustrator. She's not an author. She's the first non author we've had on the show. So we're super excited. And you think, why are you having an illustrator on a storytelling show? Well, let me tell you, it's a thing called visual literacy. It's a form of storytelling. Anyway, Kate has illustrated several books by Jackie. The daring tale of Gloria the Great, Kevin the sheep, that cat. And she's also an animation director. She's a super accomplished artist. So we're very grateful to have her here on the show. All right, now, today, as you know, we're all storytellers, so we're going to tell you stories for the next half hour. And today's theme is learning challenges. All right, well, I'm actually going first, aren't I? You are. It always feels really weird when I do the introduction and then I go first. All right, I'm going to have a sip of my drink now to be really professional. Don't worry, it's non alcoholic. Okay, so we're. Today we're talking about learning challenges because I had this book come out last year called Hamlet is not okay. And the lead character in that has a lot of, like, learning difficulties. She struggles to read, and it's interesting because it's all based on me. I struggled to read when I was at. Well, I still struggle to read. I read like, left to right and right to left simultaneously. So I read really slowly compared to most people, about 30% to 40% slower than a normal person. And also, everything's a word jumble, which is kind of fun because, like, street signs, sometimes they. I read them in the wrong way and they're funny or they're rude because I'm reading them the wrong way. So I just laugh and laugh. That must be particularly something that you notice when you go to England because there are a lot of roads and names of villages that are very funny. With the word bottom in there. Bottom. Because with what I do, the word bottom always is just the first word I will see. And then I put syllables together and we shouldn't be spelling out rude words for the listeners, but. Yeah, but we're all from the barrel area. At some stage of our life, there's a street sign that says Michigan Road, barrel. And right next to it, pointing the other direction, is barrel Road to Mittagong. And every time I see it, it just about makes my head explode. So, anyway, I just thought I'd talk about that because kids now come up to me and say, oh, are you dyslexic? And it's like, I have no idea. I just am a messed up person. I've never been diagnosed with anything. But I thought, you know, like, kids assume when you're a writer that you're good at writing, you're good at spelling, good at grammar, but actually English is my lowest mark. So I'm today gonna tell you the story about the time my mum was brought in for a spelling intervention on me. I remember it so vividly. I would have been in year five and my mum was called in, which was a really big deal because my mom couldn't drive. So for her to come into school, she had to get the bus. And it was a hot day and it was just unpleasant. And she comes in and I remember we sat under the trees because it was too hot inside. And I remember, you know, when your kid and parents talk about you as though you're not there, even though you're one metre away. So I sort of sit behind them and my mum's like, how bad is it? The teacher's like, oh, it's bad. You know, like, because the other kids, you'd have a 30 word spelling test and the other kids would get sort of 2025 30, you know, in that range. And I'd be getting like five or six. And that was just, you know, like a monkey at a typewriter. I just occasionally luck out and get something spelt right. And she's like, oh, it's so bad. And she said. And my mum's like, because my mum had been a primary school teacher, she's like, are we gonna have to have some sort of interventions and proper lessons or therapy? And, you know, this is the eighties where therapy was like a dirty word. Yeah, well, you didn't have tutoring back then. That was not something that was reserved for, you know, really bad things. Yeah. It was almost like they'd put you in a strange and take you to an institution for belly lessons. But my teacher goes, oh, it's bad, but she should be all right if for the entire rest of her life. Everywhere she goes, the rest of her life, she always carries a dictionary. And like, I tell kids this story now, and kids are like, so what? Because they've got, like, dictionaries in their pocket. And I was like, no, you gotta understand, dictionaries used to be boo doorstops. Yeah. And they were big books. And, like, to me, I remember sitting behind them while they were having this conversation thinking, oh, my gosh, this is like, you know when you read in a fairy tale and someone comes to the christening of the princess and curses. The baby and they say, ah, I curse you. And. But it's like, I curse you to a life of having to carry a house brick in your pants so your trousers will always fall down. So anyway, that was my primary school experience, just being told not only was I so bad, I was so bad, they were seriously concerned for my brain. And then I went to high school, and I love reading books. It just takes me a bit longer. And I loved history, but I was terrible at the essay subjects because my brain would just shoot off in different directions. I couldn't write a logical essay. So English was my lowest mark. And when I did the HSC, the high school, the finishing exam in New South Wales, you could. I was the last year where you could do it. You could take your lowest mark and you could drop it away from the mark even if it was English. And you can't do that anymore. It was the last year, like, you. Had to study English, but you didn't have to include it in your mark. So I was an English did not count towards my mark. So that's now 13 years of education being told, not only are you so bad, we're concerned for your brain, you're so bad. And then I went to university and I was. There was this narrow sort of like, gap in the New South Wales education system where they never taught grammar. Oh, no, it wasn't that narrow. It was pretty much the entire eighties, nineties, and anytime from there on. Yeah. So I've got no idea, Gramme. So I get to university and I had this real stickler of a history professor, and she'd come and like, I'd have all these great conversations and ideas and discussions, and then I'd write an essay and she'd be like, what is wrong with you? And she sent me to the remedial English coach because of my grandma. And I went to the remedial English coach. And she's like, I can see what your professor's saying. Your grammar is terrible, but we're here to help the people from Korea who can't say anything. We can't help you. So the end of 16 years of formal education, I was like, I just thought I was terrible at English, so it never would have occurred to me I could become a professional writer. But then I wanted to work in tv and make tv because tv just brings everyone so much joy. So I go to do work experience, and when I'm there, none of the technical crew was there, and I'd been trained how to use the cameras and the sound and everything. So I go in and they say, oh, the only people here are the writers. You have to sit with them. And they're like, it was good news week. They write jokes. I'm like, okay, I'll have a go at writing jokes. So I spent all day just sitting, writing jokes, and I handed them in. And the next day, the head writer came to me and he was like, these are frighteningly good. And I didn't realise. It's really rare to be able to write jokes. And so they offered me a job at the end of the week, and when I was 22, and I. I ended up staying three years and just writing jokes all day. And jokes are very small, like 20 words roughly. And at the end of that, I started writing sketch comics. Don't worry. There's a garbage truck outside. Don't worry. Don't worry. They can still hear me. And then I started writing sketch comedy and then writing children. I was a writer for ten years before it occurred to me that I had the skills to write a book. It's ridiculous, because now I know that writing a book, it's not so much about yourself, sentence structure, it's about your ideas and engaging an audience. So, anyway, that's my characters and all those sorts of things. Yeah. That's my story of how I became a writer, sort of in spite of everything I'd learnt in the education. Yeah, but, I mean, I think that's fantastic, though, that you did that, Rachel, because, you know, you could have easily been of the opinion your whole life that you weren't capable of doing that. So. Yeah, and, you know, I'm sorry, I'm just going to say Rachel is one of the smartest people I know, irregardless of the fact that she, you know, says she couldn't spell, but you are one of the smartest people I know. And so, you know, it's. I think it's really sad that education can be very limiting for kids at times, you know, and I think you probably had that experience, Kate, where I'm going to give you a bit of background to Kate and I. So, Kate Isabelle Scott, who was our guest today. So Kate was actually a student of mine. I was her teacher when she was in. We called it transition, but it's sort of the equivalent of kindergarten. And again, I was her teacher in year four. And so I've known this young woman sitting beside me with a stick. I used to. Probably used to tell you that I was going to turn into a witch. Tell us a few stories. I did tell a lot of stories. But I just want to interrupt. Kate, you can't see this. She is the smiliest person I have ever met in my life. Was she like this when she was in kindergarten? She was. And in fact. Yeah, so. And I was telling the kids that today, when we were in one of our sessions at the festival, that. So a lot of people ask me, what was the inspiration for Alice Miranda? And I said, it's three little girls I used to teach, one of whom is standing right here in front of you because has never had a smile on her face, even though, and I'm not talking out of turn here, Kate had a lot of learning challenges when she was little because you were ultimately diagnosed with dyslexia. Yeah, but, you know, I remember doing lots of investigations for ages and your mum and dad experimenting, taking you to the ophthalmologist with the glasses, the coloured glasses, the whole, whole nine yards. And, you know, it's just. It is wonderful that something Kate was always good at was art and drawing and that, you know, she's been able to make that her career. But you also can string sentences together too. You're good at storytelling as well. I mean, I always did like storytelling. Yeah, me too. Always told it through images rather than find your secret power and then you run with it. Yeah, absolutely. And it's like people don't realise. They don't because so much of what information you absorb, you just take for granted how your brain absorbs it. But visual literacy, like, if you stop and think about what that is, it's really powerful. And you think, we are around the world, we speak so many different languages, but visual literacy is the international language. And at last, the test time as well, if you like, what different cultures have been using throughout history, they've always. Used images and facial expressions and things like that. They're international. Reading people is something you do through vision. So, yeah, very much so. One of the illustrators of one of my series are the pesky kids. Erica Salcedo. I thought I was going to forget her name, but I didn't. But she's from Spain, so English is her second language. And it was great because, I mean, she's got brilliant, brilliant English, but it was so much easier to communicate with her just by doing a drawing because she's very visual. I'm quite visual, too. So I do a drawing and say, this is what I'm thinking. She's like, oh, I can get that. And you never have to go through the translation in your brain. It's great. You're lucky to that Rachel, because Rachel can draw as well. Whereas my superpower is definitely not drawing. It's not something I'm very good at at all. And so, yeah, okay. I guess my assume superpowers are more like my ability to communicate orally. You know, I'm really. I'm good at being able to speak to people. But also the reading and writing thing. Yeah, but people think, oh, it's about the words, but it's not just about the words. Communicating verbally and through writing. It's about an emotional connection. Absolutely. And that's what, like, I can't spell, I can't do grammar, but I can do that thing where I can capture someone's imagination and say, think of this. Imagine this. Create the character who taps into somebody's emotions. That's really important, I think, too. Yeah. And knowing what they want to hear and then telling them what you want to tell them and. Yeah. Drawing them in like a fish on a line. True. So my learning. What do we. What was our theme again now? Learning. Learning challenges. Learning challenges. So. So for me, I was actually one of those key who taught myself to read before I went to school. So I was one of those. Yeah, I was. Sorry, sorry. I was one of those kids. I had books always when I was really little and my mum used to take me to the public library, which was my favourite outing of the week. Yeah. And I was like the little Matilda with my little bag of books. And, you know, I'd go down there and I do remember, I remember when I started kindergarten that I didn't think anything about. It was hard that, you know, it was. This was not. This was not tricky. This was, you know, like, and why aren't we reading books? That I actually skipped kindergarten because my mum taught me to read before I went to school, but she taught me whole words. So that's partly why? I can't spell. I didn't learn sight words. So when I got to kindergarten and they're like, well, you can read already. I did first grade twice. Right. But I went straight into a class when 28 of the kids couldn't speak English. Oh, wow. Yeah. So it was not a non ideal first year at school. Anyway, continue. Oh. So I was just gonna say. So reading was the thing that wasn't. You know, I loved reading and I loved writing right from the get go, but for me, the mathematical challenges and. Yeah, so I, like, I could always do maths, and I'm pretty decent at basic mathematics, but, you know, you get me onto calculus and all that sort. Of stuff, I'm like, ah, trigonometry. Kill me now. And you know, my question, too, particularly when I got. You know, I found the times tables. It took me a long time, like, for that to all click. And then once it clicked, it was fine. But when I went to high school, I had some of the most evil maths teachers on the planet. I think you'll find that's tautological. Oh, okay. Maths teachers, by definition, are evil. Well, there was in particular who stood out. There was one in particular who I had in. I'm pretty sure I had him in year seven and in year eight, and then I had this other one in year ten. And they used to. One of them, the year seven, eight one, he used to take great delight in making the whole class stand up, and he would throw mental computation, you know, like, mental arithmetic at you. Yeah. And he'd be like, six, seven times four, you know, this sort of thing. And you'd be standing there. And because I was not confident with my maths ability, I would just get, like. My brain would just be like. I would freeze. My brain would be like, mush. And so. And he always used to give the boys the easy ones and the girls the really hard ones. So anyway, it was year eight when this happened. So there was a girl in my class called Belinda. I won't say her second name, but she was another author, another Belinda. And, you know, she was a lovely girl, but she was quite timid and quite, you know, like a good kid. And to put it into context, too, like, I was in the top maths class in my school. Like, we had graded classes, so I was still in the top class, but I had no confidence in my ability to do it. Anyway, he stood us all up one day, and he just badgered and badgered and badgered. And this girl in my class, Belinda, she started to cry. And then another girl started to cry because he just. And he would say, oh, what's wrong with you? Like, what is it? Why can't you do this? You're so, you know, are you stupid? And anyway, I don't know. I had a very strong sense of social justice from a young age. And I looked at him and I said, you can't do that. And he said, what did you say? Now, fortunately, you know, I was pretty sure he wasn't going to give me the cane, but I just said, you can't do that. And I looked at the girls in my class and I said, right, girls, we're leaving. And we staged daged a walkout. I thought, blow, you. I am sick of being made to fill the. Just so you know, Jackie had to pause there while she thought of the nice word blow. I did. And I marched us all to the counsellor's office and we, and we all went to the counsellor's office, you know, in floods of tears and high emotion. You know, we're a bunch of 1314 year old girls who are, you know, on the cusp of, you know, of womanhood, who are feeling very emotional. And I know they're like borderline hysterical at the best of times, let alone. Once you've just told your maths teacher, who you can't stand, that you are leaving, you're going to the barricade. Exactly. And so, yeah, I took the girls and we all went up to the council's office and floods of tears and the counsellor brought us back to the classroom and obviously had words with said teacher and he never ever studied. And I was like, yes. But I guess, too, that really formed in me. You know, I'd had the best teacher. So the reason I became a teacher is because I had this brilliant teacher for the second half of fourth grade and all of fifth grade, Sally Hogan, who I absolutely loved and adored and still do. And, you know, she. The one thing when I was at school with her, no matter what you did every day, we were going to have some fun doing it. And so, you know, it was really important. And that was my mantra that I took to my teaching career. And I suppose in the interim when I came across these teachers who basically spent their life trying to make your life miserable. Yeah. Taking their misery out on you. And I just thought, you know what? This is not on. This is not, this is not fun and this is not good enough. And so I guess experiences like that with said maths teacher only made my resolve even stronger. That when I became a teacher, I would teach in ways that made kids feel good about themselves, that never belittled a child, that, you know, that no matter how hard things were, we lift them up and we make them feel good. And so, yeah, so that was my maths wasn't my strongest suit, that's for sure. By the end, my husband will tell you a very funny story about. He calls me 330 because we were going through the tolls on the m five one day, and he said, and I'm running around getting the change. And he goes, have we got $3.30? And I was like, and anyway, out of the change, I just couldn't do it. Exactly. And he quickly sort of went like, there's 330 right there. So he's like, hey, 330. So, yes, I'm not, like, 630 the dog in what was the lessons in chemistry, but apparently I'm 330. So, yeah, and certainly when. I mean, whatever possessed me to take physics in year eleven? A lot of maths. A lot of maths. And when I got 44% in my end of year eleven physics exam, my teacher, who. His name was Mister Gunn, and we used to. His name was Ron Gunn, but we used to call him Ray Gunn because he was really into Sci-Fi and, you know, we used to think that he had aliens in his backyard. Anyway, he and I had a pretty, like, deep and meaningful conversation about why it would be a good idea for me to drop physics before year twelve. So that just comes back to, like, we know more now that everyone's brain works differently and everyone's brain absorbs information differently. I teach bell ringing, which is, like, a really weird hobby. I teach bell ringing and I used to teach teenagers a lot. Now I teach elderly people, seventies and eighties, and everyone just learns differently. And every, like, if you're teaching six people, you'll have to explain it to them six different ways. I teach at the gym, too, and you teach people how to do, like, a clean and jerk a weightlifting move. Every person you teach, like, some people need to learn visually. Some people, you explain it and they don't get it. They need to go away and try it, and then it'll click and then. You can save it. Something. Everyone's brain is different. I feel like now, in these days, it's. People realise that. But back. Back in the old days, it was. Very one way or one way only. But I still find that even today, even though people know that, they're still so judgmental about spelling. Yeah. Like, they think if you can't spell, you're stupid. They love pointing out when you've made spelling mistakes. Still, not everybody, but there's a certain type of res. And particularly, like people I. At my book launch, my last book launch, I had a song at the end which was, you know, like, this is the end of my show. You know, I'll be signing book blah, blah, blah, and it's like. And if you read my book and you find a spelling mistake, please don't tell me because you'll hurt my feelings. Within 20 minutes, a kid had come up and found a mistake in the book and told me. It's like, why do you think? Well, I get kids who point stuff out. They'll write to you. And no matter how many times you've been through that edit and gone through that book, and no matter how many eyes have been on it, you know this, there's often one little thing that'll slip through 40,000 words in the book. Yes, one of them will be right. But there are kids who take great delight in pointing it out to me. Like, some are really nice about it and they say, look, I'm not sure if you know this, but blah, blah. And I'm always afforded straight to our publisher and, you know, they. They make the corrections so that if you don't. I don't tell anyone, because I love. I'm human. It's creative. Yeah, yeah. Also spell it. That's the other thing that drives me nuts about it, is spelling was only standardised with the invention of the dictionary. This is my point. Yeah. Like, you could look at Jane Austen novels. She spells things differently. What's right or wrong, really? People get the information. Certain types of people love correcting people, but anyway, it drives me off the wall because there's so much judgement. No. I did have a teacher in high. School, though, that told me I was never going to get anywhere because I couldn't spell. Really? You'll never get a good job. I was like, really? What, like a high school teacher? Yeah. We shouldn't diss the teachers. I. You know, I was a teacher for a very long time. You are very encouraging. And also, you were. I feel like you. Like you taught me in a different way to most teachers at that time. Yes. Well, you're not one of those. No. No. Well, I mean, you wouldn't be sitting here next to me now. We wouldn't be writing books together if you were together. She's researching a book about how awful you are. Yes, true, true. So do you have any real standout sort of moments where people were either encouraging or really disparaging. You were diagnosed? Yeah. I was quite lucky because my dad was dyslexic and he had a really tough time at school. So then when I went to school and they found out I was dyslexic, he. He had my back. Made a big difference, but I did. I had both ways. So I always was put in naughty class, even though I wasn't naughty. Yeah, well, there's a difference between, like, naughty and hard to manage. Yeah. Yeah. And I like. So. But as far as their concern, the motivation doesn't matter. Your heart is umbrella. Yeah. Which was frustrating. But then. But then I did have some good teachers, like Jackie, who really guided me through and saw what I was good at, encouraged it. But then I also had. It was more in high school, maybe, where teachers were just like, oh, no. We don't want to deal with this. Yeah. And it's sort of. And then I think because people, you try really hard, and then if you don't get encouraged in the right way, you're confident goes down the drain, and then you sort of give up in. A weird way, I think. Well, you were telling me about the violin case. You told me that story. So. Because my dad was very pro. Like, he's like, yeah, you just gotta get on with it. Like, you'll be fine, but we'll go. I'm gonna paint the picture of Kate's dad. I've known Tim for a very long time and he's absolutely adorable, but he is the definition of the british stiff upper lip. Keep calm, carry on. Yeah, keep calm, carry on. You know, his dad was in the navy. That's my jacket. Just keep talking. He was. He was a commander in the British Navy. But then we also think that he might have been something spy, which is very exciting. So. Yeah, so to paint you the picture of Tim, have you ever heard that. He could have been a spy? Yeah. Yeah. So actually, after Commander Scott, who I can remember meeting him, and he came to school and he's like, full neighbour. Well, you bought him for Chantelle and he had. Didn't he bring the ceremonial sword that day? You know, like, normally kids, it's like. Like, I know some kids, they. It's like they show their undies for show and tells. Like, I'm wearing undies today and they're pink. And then they show everyone. It's like, oh, my grandfather, whose name was. You know, who was Commander Scott, and he did have quite the posh. He was quite posh and he was very posh. And he came in the full uniform, I think. Yeah, he had shiny gold buttons. Shiny gold buttons. And he had the ceremonial sword. And anyway, so you sort of get the picture of how Kate's, you know, family background. It was definitely. Yeah, no complaining. Don't explain. Don't complain. Don't explain. Yeah, the violin case. The violin case. They. Because I was then at one stage of primary school, getting extra tutoring, but because I was a bit embarrassed about it, they decided that it would be a good idea if I could go undercover and treat it a bit like. It was actually a really good spin. Well, because you would have the spy background. Did you pretend you were going to. So I was like every, every Friday when there was a spelling test. I didn't do a spelling test, probably for half of my primary school year, because every time I just happened to have a music lesson, a violin lesson, and I'd pack up my little violin case with all my books in it that I was actually learning to read. And take it off to go down to Miss McCall's. No, it was palm Oxenhow. Okay. In the music centre to help you. With the COVID story. No one tweaked. That's because she wasn't actually. I don't think she was. She wasn't actually. No, but. Because she was dyslexic herself. Yeah, but she wasn't one of the teachers at the school. So you had. You were dyslexic. You had a teacher who's dyslexic. So what, you just sat around drinking tea, going, oh, these non dyslexic. She used to make me read to one of those tick tick. Oh. And she showed me all these, like, different ways of approaching how to read and write. Yeah. Which was very easy. Oh, that's so good. So I heard another story about it. I just. I just want to say that's really funny because, of course, mobsters used to carry machine guns in Violet case. That was Kate's cover. Yeah, yeah, it was books, though. So you made me think about another teacher that I had that was particularly evil. Yeah. So I. Can we just say, like, Jackie is a teacher. I am. If she says horrible things about teachers, send. Send email to her. No, I had Millie. I had a lot of very, very good teachers. But, you know, I think we've all experienced, you know, it's funny now I say to kids, you know, oh, so do you have a lovely teacher? And they're like, yes. And I was like, no, I need one of you to have an evil one so you can give me some more stories. Well, what I used to do at the end of my presentations, I don't do it anymore because it just makes everyone hysterical with joy. I used to fire rockets with foam. Nanny Piggins. Yep. And I'd always say, I'm going to fire a rocket. Who should I fire it at? The kids would go, me, me, me, me, me, me. And then I'd stop everything. I'd say, no, no, no. I've been here for an hour teaching you lateral thinking, creative thinking. You got to think about it. When someone says they're going to fire something at someone's head, I could fire it at one of your teachers. Now, which is the worst teacher? And it's funny, you get 500 kids and say, who's the worst teacher here? They all point, they never doubt. They all the same person. They always know who it is. Misses bridges. And then you aim at them and they love it. They're screaming. So, yeah, so this other evil teacher of mine was not a school teacher. She was my piano teacher. Oh, did she slam the lid shut on your fingers? No, not quite. But she did have a ruler that she used to like to bring down very hard right next to my fingers. Anyway, she lived. So. So I lived in a really long street when I was growing up. And anyway, she lived in Sandwich street that I did, but she lived right down the other end.

And so my music lessons were always at about 07: 28:37

00 in the morning, and I would ride my bike to her house and, you know, go there to have my lesson. Except that she had about like 26 kids. No slight exaggeration, she might have had about six or seven kids. That's enough. Which was enough. And so she would be like, I would be in the front room and I would be. And she would sit down next to me for the first time, say, five minutes, and she would tell me that, you know, I had to play my scales, I had to do whatever. And then her kids would all be getting ready for school, and it was like an absolute. It was like herding cats out in the other room. And so then she would start screaming at them, and she's like, you know, right, Oliver, get your uniform. You know, and I'm sitting there, I'm like, I'm really scared of her anyway. And then she would disappear out of the room and she would say, play blah, you know, play etude in B flat or whatever she'd say. And I'd be in there, like, you know, and she would duck in and she'd say terrible. And she'd be like, ugh. And she'd just come in and she made these horrible noises and made me feel. And honestly, like, I persevered. And I wasn't a bad pianist, right? I was. When I was in year five, I was studying fifth grade piano, which is fairly high, so, you know, that. That was pretty high. But I went one day and she told me that I was going to fail my exams because I was. I didn't practise and I was terrible. I'm thinking, what? It's got nothing to do, the fact that you're in and out of my lesson 50 times. Anyway, so I had another one of those moments and she. She made me cry. I said, girls, we're all there. No, I just said. I said in my own head, Jackie, you are leaving. So I actually turned to her and I said, you are the meanest woman I have ever met in my life. And I said, I'm going home to tell my mom. And I got on my little bike and I rode home, like, sobbing my. Sobbing my heart out because I was really upset that she, a, told me I was going to fail my exams and, b, that I had just stood up to this adult that I really, really didn't like. Anyway, I got home and my mum was pretty much of the, you know, stiff upper lip. She's not english, but she's, you know, she was very much of. She could have been, you know. You know, like, you don't take days off school for any reason unless you're really old, unless your leg needs to. Be sewn back on. Anyway, I got home and my mother's like, what are you doing here so early? And I was like, snot and dribble and all the rest of it, and mum. And I just remember my mum sort of hugging me and she said, right, I will call her and you don't have to go to school today. And so I spent the day with my mum, which was really unusual, and, you know, because my mum and dad had their own business. And I just remember mum like, you know, she was. She was like, right, that's it. And. And I remember my mum stood up to her and told her that she wasn't paying a term fees in lieu of notice because that just was not gonna happen. Good for your mom. Yeah, good for my mum. So. But. But that really clouded my ability to play in front of people. I know, because you don't to this day, because I don't. So. So when Kate was little, I did. I used to always play for the kids and I would. So if you. And then you were revisited by your piano teacher. No, if you put me in a room with a hundred, you know, infants, kids and give me a, give me a music book, give me some sheet music, I will bash out anything and I still can. But I got so anxious about playing in front of adults and so, and interestingly, when I was teaching you. Okay. And when I was at that school, I went back as an adult to learn piano again. And so, so in the, in the intervening years, I never gave up playing. So I would have these particular pieces of music that I would just, you know, could teach myself. I can sight read and whatever. Anyway, when I was in high school for a little tiny bit, my beautiful teacher from year five was my piano teacher for a little bit. Then I had another lady for, you know, not for too long, probably because I was very, I was a very studious student who didn't like to have lots of distractions. But then as an adult, I decided, right, I'm going to buy myself a piano. Yeah. And then I started having lessons with Mister Donaldson. And so for, I don't know, for years I had lessons when I was at school and that helped a lot and I did sort of get more confident and. Yeah. But it just, it's interesting how, you know, that one experience of having that really horrible teacher has, has impacted me for life. And now, you know, for my, for my birthday a few years ago, my husband bought me the most beautiful baby grand piano. Wow. And I play it for me. I play it for him and I play it for me. And I even prefer that he's not in the room, like downstairs. I will happily play anything, but he's got to be downstairs. See, I'm the opposite. I'm just all confidence and no skill. I play in front of. I've literally played in front of thousands of people, my ukulele and my guitar. And, yeah, I have to because I can't really play very well, so I have to practise like I do all these songs based off like Twinkle Twinkle and things like that. I think there's a jailbreak somewhere. Yeah, yeah. That's Tim Harris song. Tim Harris. He's arrived on the Gold coast with his police escort, Chase. They know he wasn't invited. He knows we're talking about him. That's the problem. But, yeah, I learned the four chords and I bash through them and I don't care. Yeah, yeah, see, but see, that's really clever of you and I probably should do something where I incorporate music into my presentations every now and then. But. And I think I would, if I do a lot more picture books, I probably would. Yeah. I was even thinking about, I should write a song about Kevin. Your picture books. Wrong. Yes, they do. So they'd be so easy to make into songs. Yeah. We could do rap, we could do. We could wrap Kevin and we could rhyme Kevin the sheep. But, yeah, it's just, it is fascinating to me how much teachers influence your life. So you have a good teacher. And fortunately for me, I changed the whole trajectory, you know, the teacher that I loved and adored, who I wrote about in the book teacher teacher, which came out last year, and basically my essay is my love letter to her to thank her for the fact that she's the reason I became a teacher. And so, you know, and I love telling the kids that my teaching life has really sort of come full circle because, you know, my teacher, Sally Hogan, she made me want to be a teacher. And then now, you know, I have the joy of working with Kate, who's. I was her teacher. And so it's that, you know, it's like I said, it's the teaching circle of life. Children, they do play such an important. Part in your life. They do. I want to ask you, Kate, before we wrap up, because you went to university in Cornwall. I say in the UK, which I find fascinating. My daughter wants to go to University of the UK. So I just wanted to ask, because you had these issues with reading when you're younger and obviously your brain's always going to work that way. It's just like a challenge you live with. So how did you go at university? Did you have to read a lot of stuff at university or. So I actually, I did. I finished school, but I didn't do enough subjects to get the thing to. Go to university, the matriculation to university. Because I sort of. That's a cool thing to talk about. Because a lot of, like, my daughter is in year eleven, so she's gearing up there to see. And like I said all the time, the marks don't matter as much as you think they do and they just don't believe you. But it's true. I mean, no one's ever asked me. What mark I got. I don't even know what marks I got. And I, because I only did a few subjects. I, then I was like, once I finished school, I was like, I'm out. I'm not. I'm going back into the education system again. And my parents were like, oh, we think maybe, like, you might change your mind, like, later on, but so you need to do a bridging course. And so that's when they suggested I went off to England because my dad's English had an english passport. So I went off to England to this school university called Falmouth University, and it specialised with dyslexic people. So I was like, my people. And I was like. And I think I. So did you know, like, did you do the research and found out? No, because I was like, I'm not. I'm not going overseas. Like, I don't want to do this. And then my mom had talked to someone who talked to someone. They were like, this is the place. So good, though. There is some way into doing it. And I did it. Did you click with the people straight away? Walk through? I mean, I cried for a week because I was like, I don't know where I am on the map of the world. Yeah, I was 18, just 18. But then within a week, I flourished. I'd found my people. Like, I got extra tutor help. Like, there wasn't, like, there was. It was all practical work. I became the person I am because I went there. I know the first time I went to good newsweek, and we had, like, before the show, we were having drinks with the writers and I was talking to the other writers and I realised the. The first time I'd ever met people who thought the way I think, it's crazy. Yeah. Because. Especially because I think most people must find it throughout when they're growing up. But if you get to, like, 18 or 20. Yeah, I was like, 22, and then you suddenly. There's other humans. Yeah, but the thing was, they were. All, like, 35 year old guys, so. It was kind of weird. It's like they think like me, and I just felt this amazing moment. I'm a 20 year old woman, but I love my moment. But I have no, nothing else in common with these guys. But then I went to an autistic school in LA, like, about eight years ago, and it was the same thing. Like, I walked in there and these little kids are coming up to me and they're like, my t shirts made of cotton, well, it's 10% spandex. And they're like, right in my face telling me all this stuff, and I'm like, oh, yeah, my t shirts made of polyester. And we're just having these really intense conversations about things that really, really interest us. And I think there's something in this. These people, they're, they're my people when you find them. Yeah, yeah. And also when you connect with kid, though, you know, I absolutely still remember this experience of working in a school in Western Australia a few or quite a long. A while back. And I was in this school that was a bit. It was quite an alternative kind of school, quite small. And I had a whole day where I was working with this group of kids. And clearly one of the boys in the class was. He was very much on the spectrum, you know, didn't want to make eye contact with you, didn't want to do, you know, it was. It was interesting, but for whatever reason, the things that I did with them that day, it really connected to this little boy. Anyway, we had a presentation at the end of the day, and all the parents came to watch, you know, and the kids were reading out the little stories they'd written and, you know, this sort of thing. Anyway, that little boy who. I didn't know this, but he never touched anybody. Like, he was really. He was very hands off. Do not touch. Anyway, he read his story and. And his mum was at the back of the room, and after he read his story, he climbed onto my lap. Oh, nice. And his mother started, like, tears streaming down her face and. And she's like, he doesn't do that. He doesn't do that. And I just remember. And he hugged me and I mean, I'm crying now because I still remember how powerful that moment was for that mum and for me, that this little boy, for some reason, the story we'd written was his connection. And I just, you know. And there is nothing more beautiful when something. Then something like that happens. Yeah. And you find like a kindred spirit, like I say, anne of green gate. Yeah, kindred spirit, exactly. I feel like you and I. Kindred spirits, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went to this school, like, I was touring America, and when I tour America, like, bookshops set up things for you, but then you'll have a day off, and so I just put out on social media. I'm going to be in this region. If you want me to visit your school, you know, if it's anywhere near 4 hours, I'll get on a train and come visit you. And this kid wrote to me, and I didn't know anything about him. He's like, I'm at this school, and it was. It was in. I'm not going to say the area, because people. But anyway, it was. I could do it. And I got the. I said, oh, yeah, sure, I'll come to your school and so. And it's no big. Like, it's a complicated tour and you forget about all the things you've agreed to, but you get there, you turn up at, like, I met them at like a Starbucks or something and the mum was there and they were. The mum was like, really wound up and I'm like, what's going on? And the kid was obviously a little bit on the spectrum or something and she's like, this is so big, this is so big. I just still didn't get it. And I get to the school and I realise, like, this is just a regular school and this kid is obviously like, doesn't fit in and he's a bit bullied. And because he had written to an. Author, he's organised for you to come. From the other side of the planet. So he's a big deal. Like, I've travelled all the way around the world, he wrote me a letter and I have been just turned up larger than life. And the principal came down and like, he gave me an introduction. Then the principal came in and said, I like, gave him this big rap about what a great kid he was and how he had done this and he'd extend it and they were all grateful because they'd not had an author for a long time and he made this happen and all the kids had to applaud and they're like, wow. And he used to say, yeah, it was a really great. His chest probably puffed up. Well, no, he was like, he was. Like staring at the floor, like reading. The thing, but he's just saying, yeah. No, it was like a really big thing for his family and the school. It's really cool. So, yeah, no, it's really nice when things like that happen. And I had a similar thing, but it wasn't to go to the school. So a dad in Michigan had been emailing me and he kept on saying that his youngest daughter was a really big fan of the Alice Miranda series. And he said, oh, if ever you come to the states, you need to let me know. And so it was getting on you, Jack. No, no, he wasn't, because that doesn't. Happen when you're, when you're an author. If you don't mention your husband enough on social media, you do get dad's. Turn up at the science. I've had a few of those weird ones. We'll save that for another podcast. But anyway, we, this dad said, you know, if ever you're coming to the states, let me know. I'd love to you help you with a tour or whatever. Anyway, I emailed him back and I said, well, roll out the red carpet because we're on our way. And it just happened that my husband's, one of my husband's best friends, lived in Ohio. And where he lived was quite close to Lansing, Michigan. And so we were arranging to meet him for the, you know, over that time. So we'd been in Chicago. It wasn't that far to get there. Anyway, they invited my husband and I, the family, they invited us to dinner at their house. And I was like, yeah, okay, fine. I do not know these people at all, right? I do not know them. And we're driving through the back streets of Lansing, Michigan and we pull up in front of this, you know, cute little house. But my husband looks at me and he goes, you know, they could be serial killers. Anyway, you know, this could go badly. And I was like, well, he seems so nice, you know, they seem so nice. Anyway, this is Alice, Miranda, but I'm sure he's lovely. When I see the axes on the front porch. What a lovely axe you have. Anyway, we go inside and, yes, they are lovely. They're just as lovely as they. And the mum, I'm sure she has cooked every single dish that she has ever, ever known how to cook. And it looked like Thanksgiving. Like the table was heaving with food. Anyway, the little girl, she was just so excited that I was there. But the rub was that the older sister was really peeved off because she turned around and said to her father, well, how come you can get her favourite author? But why can't you get Rick? Why can't you get Rick Roden to come to our house? And so, yeah, so in the end, you know, it was kind of like, okay, slightly awkward. They probably got Rick the next week, I reckon. Yeah. One more question for Kate before we wrap up. So you went to university in Cornwall? Just for anyone who's interested, because I'm fascinated. Like, I'm. If I could do my time, I probably would have studied illustration. Something a bit more I wish I hadn't. My dad once told me, this is because eighties dad's, um, I was driving along, said, oh, what do you think of doing at university? And I said, I was thinking of going to art school. He's like, but you're not talented enough. They like to tell it like it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So just, what, like, it's like you think of art school or learning to be an illustrator. What sort of stuff did you actually study at university? So I did illustration. Yeah. Like specialised in illustration, but we did like a broad range, so we had to do life touring twice a week. Yeah. Which was fun. And then we. Building all your skills. Yeah, they sort of build it all up. And I think where I studied, it was a really good spot because it was so small. Yeah. I was surrounded by the fine arts students or the. Did you do a lot of. Because you do. And one thing Kate really hasn't covered is she's brilliant at clan and so she does claymation animation. And did you cover that at university or was that you basically taught yourself. Afterwards because you're a big Wallace and Gromit fan? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The were rabbit and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, you used to. I can remember you used to build little models when you were at school and, you know. And what were those, what were those things that you did, the little diorama things that used to do with. Turn up those. We used to make these little shops, shops, shops. That's right. With all the shops with all the beautiful shop fittings in them and what have you. So, yeah, you were always really, really good at that. And she's so good at that. She's so modest that she actually did a clay model which was photographed and was in the New York Times on game day for the Super bowl about, what, four years ago. Oh, wow. So pretty amazing. And has done this incredible film clip for Pink Floyd for the 50th anniversary of the dark side of the. Still waiting to hear, though, what, you've done it. No, it's for the competition. Well, yeah, you. You've done it for the competition, but. And we're all fingers crossed that they win prize. The prize is 100,000 pounds. So we're very. But when you put pounds on the. End of the sentence, it sounds better.$100,000 is awesome. But 100,000 pounds, that's twice as long as. So you did life drawing, you learn animation skills and you're surrounded by art students. That's the thing. I think it was the art students, other art students, because if you needed, if you could think something bigger than illustration and you wanted something made, you could go. Yeah, surrounded by people. Like minded people. Exactly. With all, like. Because that was like, I did communications, so all people. And we were making short films. So you knew people who knew about. Exactly. New people knew about. Yeah. So you're surrounded by. Oh, that's great. And so how long is it since you've been at university now? Oh, I haven't been a long time. But the thing also with my university is a lot of us then, because we were all the way down in the southwest, a lot of us moved up to London. Yeah. And then from that, the older years and whatever, you sort of have these, like, connections with people. So then when you're in, I used to do set design, for example, and then they'd be the photographer or something. You'd always connect with people, and it was like a never ending source of finding work. So the further you progress through life, just trying to sort of get it full circle with where we started. We should talk about learning challenges. Did that matter less and you're actually valued more. Exactly. Your unique way of thinking. Like, once I hit university, it was, that was the old and old days. And I. Yeah, like, it's almost like. Your weakness becomes your strength. Exactly. And like, I kind of was like, well, yeah, I. I know I'm not good at reading and writing, but. But I'm way better at this. Have you taken great delight in crossing paths with the teacher who told you you'd never amount to anything? You couldn't spell? I would love to just meet a few of those teachers. My year ten english teacher, I met her like, a couple of years out of uni, and I had been a full time professional writer for a couple of years. And she, I think she told me I was stupid a couple of times, stuff like that. And she's just like. She also complained that I frowned all the time. Anyway, I bumped into her at a thing and I said, oh, misses Anderson, it's Rachel. I just want you to know I'm now a professional writer full time, earning really good money, working the tv on good newsweek. And she looked at me and she's like, I have no memory of you. No. When my first book was published, it. Came out and I was like, yeah, my first book. Really? She was on the news like the week before because I was like, yeah, I'm a book author. Someone I went to school with won the Booker Prize. And he was in the year, I. Think, above or below me. But anyway, she was on the news talking about, oh, how good he wrote white Tiger. I've forgotten his name, but yeah, yeah, it's like, oh, he was so talented. She had no trouble remembering him. Let me tell, tell you, you and on that sad. Yeah, we better wrap it up. All right. So if you want to find out any more about us and what we. Do, my website is rasprat.com, jackie jacquelineharvey.com, dot au. Kate, do you know your website? Kateisabelscott.com yeah. Well done. Sometimes people don't do their own. Kate has a really great Instagram page as well, which has a lot of examples of her animations and things on it. So what's yoursabellescott? Yay. Okay, so cheque her out there because she's a visual person. Instagram is a visual medium. All right. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time. Goodbye. That was good. That was a really good.