Hiss & Tell: Cat Behavior and Beyond
Welcome to "Hiss & Tell" a cat podcast where we delve deep into the fascinating world of feline behavior with your host, Kristiina Wilson, MA, CCBC, a professional animal behaviorist with years of experience in understanding our feline friends.
Each episode of "Hiss & Tell" features insightful discussions with a diverse range of guests, including leading veterinarians, renowned social media cat personalities, dedicated researchers and scientists, talented cat photographers, experts in cat behavior and training and so much more.
Join us as we explore a myriad of topics, from decoding the complexities of pet loss to unraveling the mysteries of feline health and behavior. Discover the latest research findings, practical tips for training your cat, and heartwarming stories that highlight the unique bond between cats and their human companions.
Whether you're a seasoned cat owner, a feline enthusiast, or simply curious about the inner workings of our purring companions, "Hiss & Tell" is your go-to podcast for all things cat behavior. So grab your favorite feline friend, cozy up, and let's embark on this enlightening journey together!
Hiss & Tell: Cat Behavior and Beyond
Navigating Cat Stress & Depression with Dr. Gina Rendon
Unlock the secrets to a stress-free life for your feline companions with expert insights from Dr. Gina Rendon of Williamsburg Vets. Discover how to identify the subtle signs of stress and anxiety in cats, and learn how to differentiate these behaviors from underlying medical conditions through comprehensive exams and lab work. Dr. Rendon shares her knowledge on how environmental changes can impact your cat's health, leading to issues like urinary and gastrointestinal problems, and emphasizes the importance of a nurturing environment built on the American Association of Feline Practitioners' five pillars.
Get ahead of potential stressors with practical strategies for reducing anxiety and creating a cat-friendly home. From the arrival of a new pet to the challenges of boredom, this episode guides you through the triggers that may be affecting your cat's well-being. Gain valuable advice on the use of calming sprays, supplements, and medications tailored to address feline anxiety. Explore products like Purina's Calming Care probiotic, dietary supplements with L-theanine, and prescription options when needed, ensuring your cat's peace of mind.
Whether you're managing the dynamics of a multi-cat household or preparing for a big move, we've got you covered with stress-reducing techniques and expert tips. Learn the nuances of handling inter-cat aggression and maintaining harmony in your home, as well as how to ease the stress of moving with a cat. Dr. Rendon also provides practical advice on cat carrier training and stress reduction during vet visits, ensuring that your feline friends remain comfortable and calm in any situation. This episode is your comprehensive guide to happy, healthy, and stress-free cats.
Hi and welcome to Hiss and Tell a Cat Behavior and More podcast hosted by me, chKristina Wilson, animal behaviorist. Today I'm speaking once again with the world's best veterinarian, dr Gina Rendon of Williamsburg Vets. All about feline anxiety and stress. What do cats really have to be stressed about? Do they need anti-anxiety medications? What are some strategies that we can use to help our cats be less stressed and depressed? All of this and more, starting right now. Hi and welcome to another episode of.
Kristiina Wilson:Hiss and Tell. I am your host, Kristiina
Kristiina Wilson:Wilson, and with me today again is our wonderful friend Dr Gina Rendon, the medical director of Williamsburg Vets. Hi, Gina, how are you? Thanks for having me. Thanks for being on here yet again.
Dr Gina Rendon:Yes, always a pleasure.
Kristiina Wilson:So today I don't know what that was. I'm so sorry I'm out of my mind. Today we're going to be talking about stress, depression and anxiety in our cat friends. So I guess off the bat what are some common signs of stress, depression or anxiety that you see in your practice.
Dr Gina Rendon:So the signs that we see with depression or anxiety with cats. One of the things that's tricky about them is that they can also be signs of disease.
Dr Gina Rendon:About them is that they can also be signs of disease, and so things like sleeping more, eating less, vocalizing more or vocalizing less, if it's a cat that tended to be chatty to begin with, under grooming, over grooming, avoiding socialization, those types of things you know. Sometimes you can tell by body language. Not everybody is great at reading cat body language, but the position of the tail, you know the way cats are sleeping. If it looks like they're more curled up than they usually are, they're not on their backs and you know you get to see the lovely belly of a relaxed cat. Sometimes you won't see that if they're depressed.
Dr Gina Rendon:So those are the main things that you see and, like I said, that often overlaps with health issues, and so what we always recommend is, if there's a change in any kind of behavior, to bring them in so that we can make sure that it's not something else, and to go back to that too with medical issues. Medical issues can also cause depression or anxiety. If they have chronic pain or if they have GI upset, if something is just off, then that can also cause depression. So just making sure that those underlying issues are addressed and then addressing any kind of anxiety or depression that goes with that.
Kristiina Wilson:So how do you differentiate, then, between something that is a behavioral issue or something that could be a medical issue?
Dr Gina Rendon:So the physical exam, obviously you know the history and then doing lab work. So which for cats, is so important because you know you can have a cat that looks perfectly healthy and then you may end up doing blood work or urinalysis and you find things that you don't expect to see. But you know a good physical exam, making sure that there's no pain on palpation, that you know the abdomen feels soft and comfortable and you know the major markers for kitty cats. You know just checking their kidney values, their liver values and thyroid. All of that just making sure that all that's normal. If everything comes back normal and you know for the most part the physical exam is normal, then you have to start questioning like what's going on at home? What are the what's going on in the environment? And if it seems like there have been things that are going on, everything else is normal, then considering those behavioral changes as depression or anxiety makes more sense.
Kristiina Wilson:So could anxiety or stress in cats lead to physical health problems.
Dr Gina Rendon:So could anxiety or stress in cats lead to physical health problems? Absolutely yeah, yeah, for sure, and so that's actually a really common thing. The most common things that we see are urinary issues, and so I think a lot of people are familiar with fluted the feline lower urinary diseases that cats will get and a lot of people think that those are associated with urinary tract infections and sometimes they are, but more often than not it's just inflammation, and so anytime we see a cat especially like a young male cat that's having urinary issues, one of my first questions is what's changed in the environment? Did you go on vacation? Is somebody visiting? Is there construction going on? What's happening that's potentially stressing this cat out? So urinary issues are big GI issues.
Dr Gina Rendon:They can have dermatological issues a lot of rashes and scratching and over-itching, and I'd like to say that more often than not that's allergies, but it can also present as anxiety. So cats are very sensitive. If something is off then they can very easily make themselves sick.
Kristiina Wilson:Isn't there like a pattern where it's more likely to be stress and then another pattern where it's more like to be allergies? Or is that like a myth? Yeah, yeah, that's a myth, yeah.
Dr Gina Rendon:Just over grooming and so and cats can over groom for other reasons than allergies or anxiety. So GI issues I think some people recognize that, like if they have chronic pancreatitis they may be over grooming their abdomen because they're painful. But you also see over grooming of the abdomen with stress and with allergies and so you can't just look at that distribution of skin issues and be able to diagnose. You have to do testing.
Kristiina Wilson:Okay, that's fair. Yeah, I'm sure you don't remember this. Remember when Steve Steve got his tail broken because Allie accidentally shut it in the bathroom door and he had a cast on his tail and so his tail was like a little bit of fur and then they had shaved his tail, you know, obviously for the cast, and then there's a little bit of fur at the end and a bunch of the white cats like uncle, dad and pam and bev groomed their tails, so their tails matched that pattern. There you go, like it was, like they're, like, oh, we're doing something new.
Kristiina Wilson:Yeah, they're like uh, we're doing something new with our tails. Okay, and they all groomed their tails so they looked like steves, and we're like oh my god tail trends, nuts, yeah, so crazy. I just thought that was the funniest thing I was like he is really setting trends where everybody else is like all right, I guess we're doing this this is what our tails look like now so cats are sort of, in a way, paying attention to fashion, like your cats, I think yeah, our cats, okay, our cats, and only with Steve.
Dr Gina Rendon:I think I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I've never seen them do that. No other trendsetters yeah, her like leg shaved or anything, but it was so funny, or I was just like are you serious, like you're really doing this?
Kristiina Wilson:okay, it was so weird. Anyway, that will just always stick in. My brain is like what a bunch of stone cold weirdos yeah, right, yeah, um. So what do you find to be the most common triggers for stress or anxiety in cats?
Dr Gina Rendon:um, changes. So cats love predictability and so things like. And it can be really. It seems like nothing to you, you know it can be something as simple as you've moved the furniture around. Yeah, and cats may hate that Not every cat, you know, and I don't want to be too general because obviously there's a lot of individuality, but it can be something like that. It's really common when humans go on vacation and even if there's somebody who's there, who's known and loved, there's just that change and those companions aren't there anymore, and so that can be really stressful. Moving obviously is really stressful.
Dr Gina Rendon:Any kind of construction, either inside or outside of the house, so noises that have changed, things like that Sometimes you don't even really know. You know cats can be very sensitive and so I've read reports of things like plumbing issues that humans don't detect. But there's some sound that's happening and for whatever reason, you know the cat is freaking out and there's a lot of anxiety and then somehow they realize oh, it was this thing that we didn't detect, but the cat detected it. So it can be really subtle and you don't always find out. But you know, following those behaviors and looking for any changes in behavior can give you a clue?
Kristiina Wilson:Yeah, I'm a big proponent of collecting data. Collecting data is so important so that you know if something changes that there's there's an issue.
Dr Gina Rendon:I actually encourage people even to for for single cat households, especially as they're getting older, to monitor their weight because that's also something that's really subtle, you know. So you can just take the weight at home and if you see changes this is true, you know when we bring them in. If they're in the office and we see that there's been a weight change from one year to the next, or from, you know, several months to the next, that is often an indicator that something's going on, absolutely.
Kristiina Wilson:And I just want to add to that list of common triggers the addition or subtraction of a cat into the house right.
Dr Gina Rendon:Or any animal.
Kristiina Wilson:Yes, we saw that in our house. When Steve passed and then when Mimi passed, everyone was very upset and then got even more upset and that caused a lot of stress and anxiety and and several cats became very aggressive, which is a sign also of depression and anxiety, and stress, um, so it doesn't have to be that they. They just get depressed in the way that we view depression. They can become really aggressive with each other yeah, that's sometimes sometimes with people as well.
Kristiina Wilson:So because they just can't, um, they can't, they're not being able to regulate their emotions in the same way. So, by that same token, often I get a lot of cases of intercat aggression because there's now like a feral cat outside or somebody else walking around the house and that's stressing the cats out. So that's another big stressor. And the other common trigger that I thought about for stress and anxiety is boredom.
Kristiina Wilson:A lot of cats do not have enough to do. They don't have enough environmental and intellectual stimulation, and if they get too bored, their kind of obsessive, compulsive tendencies will turn inwards and they can become incredibly stressed or anxious. And so you want to make sure that you always have stuff for your cats to do.
Dr Gina Rendon:Yeah, yeah, that's particularly true for indoor only cats. Yes, and we can talk about that a little bit more too. Yeah, well, we should.
Kristiina Wilson:So my next question was going to be what are some effective ways to reduce stress in cats? So you give your answer and then I'll give my answer.
Dr Gina Rendon:You know how I always go back to the American Association of Feline Cat Kitcheners because they are the experts, and so they actually have what they call the five pillars of the best cat environment or the best cat living situation. And so their first pillar is safe places, so that there are dedicated places for cats to go. You know, if it's a single cat, that there are multiple places that can be enclosed and that they can hide and feel safe in, and that they know that they can get to easily. And obviously, with multi-cat households, sometimes those spaces are big enough for multi-cats if they like to hang out together, or individual for those cats that really like to get away from the others.
Dr Gina Rendon:The second pillar is having multiple and separate access to various important environmental things. So multiple food bowls, water bowls, litter boxes, scratching places, places to rest, and that's so for a single cat. That would mean having more than one feeding station, having two ideally. So the rule of thumb is always number of cats plus one, and so in a one cat household you would have two litter boxes that are separated from each other. You never want to have the food in the water bowl by the litter box, because they hate that. Places where they can scratch, where they can sleep, and so that's important.
Dr Gina Rendon:Number three is opportunities to play, to hunt, to express that predatory behavior that they have, and so making sure that, for example, they're being fed in food puzzles and we can certainly talk about food puzzles because that's a really fun one but giving them that stimulation. So going back to that boredom issue. Number four is which is so important and back to the whole routine thing positive, consistent, predictable interactions with their human companion, and so cats really, I mean, I think and this is true for not just cats but for dogs and humans and everybody If you're, if you have a lot of anxiety, then being able to predict what's going to happen next really can help. Like, if you don't know what's going to happen next, then that's really going to ramp up your anxiety. But if you have some ability to say, okay, this is, you know, I know what's coming, then it's much easier, and that's definitely true for cats. The fifth one is making sure that your environment respects the cat's senses.
Kristiina Wilson:The olfactory thing. Yeah, the olfactory thing.
Dr Gina Rendon:Yeah, and so they. They specifically emphasize smell, which I think is really important. So cats have their smell is like a thousand times stronger than human smell, and so they're very sensitive to candles. And I mean, how many freaking scented candles do you get for every gift? We have so many. I never liked them because, but they're just so popular right now. Cats don't like them. And any kind of perfume sprays they don't like, it's just too strong. So you know making sure that you're using cleaners that are neutral in their smell. But to me this also goes along with sounds. So making sure that there are not noises that are bothering them. You know that there's not bright flashing lights, you know bothering them.
Kristiina Wilson:So just making sure that it's an environment that is friendly to a cat agreed and I would say also to that end that not using bleach, because bleach like to clean with, as I'm sure you know, bleach will actually keep them from being able to smell for a while, because it kills, yeah it.
Dr Gina Rendon:What does it?
Kristiina Wilson:kill in their nose.
Dr Gina Rendon:I'm not a.
Kristiina Wilson:Their olfactory receptors. Thank you Doing so bad today.
Dr Gina Rendon:Wow, the two of us together. We'll stitch this together.
Kristiina Wilson:Shout out to not eating and just being dumb. Yes, but bleach will actually kill your cat's ability to smell and I think we would all be very stressed out if we suddenly lost one of our primary senses and didn't understand why. So definitely try not to clean with bleach in your home. You know I have to say the natural cleansers.
Dr Gina Rendon:And Martha Stewart has really good. I don't know if you ever have looked at her website, but she has really excellent recipes for just lemon, vinegar, baking soda water. You know, obviously with cats and lemon you have to be a little bit careful. You have to really dilute that down. But all of those are natural, clean and, and I think, easier on animal senses than some of the commercial stuff?
Kristiina Wilson:do you want to explain to people why they need to be careful with cats and lemon?
Dr Gina Rendon:cats just hate lemon yeah they just hate.
Kristiina Wilson:They hate citrus fruit period.
Dr Gina Rendon:They hate the citrus yeah, exactly, and, and for some you, you know, in some situations you can use it to your benefit. So if you have a kitty cat that really loves electrical wires, then you can use like lemon scented deterrents Right, you can spray the cords with something that's citrusy and they'll stay away from them, yeah. But so then if you, if you have all of those things in place and your cat is still depressed so let's say a situation where another cat in the household has been lost, you know died, or you know something terrible has happened and that cat is now you can see, is grieving Then how do you get that kitty cat out of that? I think the most important thing is being very compassionate and mindful that your cat is going through this and spending time, you know, and I think that you have to be really thoughtful about the way you spend time with your animal. And so there are those that really take comfort in petting and snuggling and holding, and then there are those that don't, but will like your presence and so being, you know, being sensitive to that. Sometimes it's just being close by, I mean, it's just like with humans too. Sometimes just the presence of somebody else can be helpful, but then also, you know, encouraging some activity with toys. You know, seeing if you can get their interest with the fishing toys are one of the funnest things for cats, you know, anything that can get them up and active and moving around, offering foods that they might not necessarily have had before. So making sure that you know they're stimulated by what they're eating, doing food toys, if you can get them up and about.
Dr Gina Rendon:I think being sensitive to all of that and not over pushing is important. But that's where you would start and then you know if it seems like things are just going on for a really long time and you're really not making a difference. To me, one of the most important things is making sure that they are eating. Yeah, so if you're having issues with your cat not eating I think we've talked about this before if they don't eat, that's a big deal, right. So talking to your vet about potentially getting something like an appetite stimulant can be helpful so you can get them eating again. Then you know those really worst case scenarios. If you feel like things are really not helping, you can certainly do medications and things like fluoxetine, which is generic Prozac or gabapentin. Gabapentin can be hard because it can make them sleep a little bit more.
Dr Gina Rendon:But there are medications and we can certainly backtrack and talk about some of the more homeopathic-y type of supplements and treatments. But that's kind of the progression, I would say, and I don't know what's your opinion about it, since you've had to live through this.
Kristiina Wilson:Yeah, so just for people who are listening who may not know and I don't think there are any, because I think everyone who listens to this is a Steve person but we lost our head cat about a year ago and then our vice president cat very recently, and it has really affected our cats and they became very, very depressed and, in a few cases, aggressive, and so at first I was like I'm a behaviorist, I'm just going to help them through this with attention and novelty every day. And you know, as I recommend to my clients, bird feeders outside.
Kristiina Wilson:So they have a natural stimulus to watch, and then little food puzzles so they have something to complete the prey sequence right. And making them enrichment boxes and playing with them more and giving them novel foods, and you know, I got them a running wheel and all this, all this stuff that I could think of to do and it still just wasn't.
Kristiina Wilson:It was making a little dent but it wasn't making enough of a dent which is when I talked to you and we started a few of them on fluoxetine, which, as you said, is Prozac for cats, and I really sort of kicked myself that I hadn't done it earlier, because it was so effective. It just helped kind of bring them below threshold so that the behavioral interventions were then effective. Right, Right.
Kristiina Wilson:So, because I think sometimes, especially when there's a loss or there's been a big change, your cats get so stressed just as we do as people that you're above threshold where nothing anybody says or does to help you is going to be helpful because, you're above that stress threshold, so you need to be brought down below it so that interventions can be helpful, right? So?
Dr Gina Rendon:it's interesting how similar all of this is to human anxiety. Yeah, dealing, yeah, yeah absolutely, it's I.
Kristiina Wilson:I always recommend to my clients who are going through this that they, depending on the severity of each case, right that they add intellectual stimulation, they add environmental stimulation.
Kristiina Wilson:They do things like the enrichment boxes and the food puzzles and the bird feeder and like all that, but often, if the case is moderate to severe, that they go right to their vet and talk to them about psychopharmacological interventions, which we can go into in just a minute. But first I want to talk about another piece that does often come into play, which is those pheromone diffusers and sprays and collars.
Kristiina Wilson:This podcast is not at all sponsored by anyone. Collars, this podcast is not at all sponsored by anyone but I will say that I only recommend the Philaeway brand of diffusers because they are the only ones that have clinical research behind them and peer reviewed papers.
Kristiina Wilson:I also only recommend the diffusers because I have not found, and the research has not found, the sprays or the collars to be effective and I think the collars can actually be a little bit aversive because cats can have a reaction, yeah, like kind of like a dermatitis, from having that like right against their skin. So but I will say we have five of the diffusers going in our house all the time. Um, we use the optimum one, which is a combination of the bunting pheromone and the nursing mother's pheromone, and we notice immediately if one of those runs out and we haven't we haven't, like, re-upped it quick enough, because the cats will start to kind of have issues around each other just in that area of the house.
Kristiina Wilson:So, while they alone will not be like a fix. There's never like one thing you can do. It's always like putting a puzzle together and finding the right pieces. Right, they can be very effective.
Dr Gina Rendon:So that's my take. I agree, and I actually had my own little kitty cat. You know years ago who. She peed outside the box and I always knew when my diffuser ran out because it would start again. Yeah, it was kind of amazing, yeah.
Dr Gina Rendon:I was like I've got to change that. Yeah, I felt like it really worked too. For the sprays, we actually use the sprays on towels that we keep in the room. So we do in our exam rooms, not in my house Right the hospital. So we have the diffusers in the cat rooms, but then we also spray the towels, and the recommendation is to spray towels before you put them in the carrier, before you bring your cats in too. That makes sense For like immediate use.
Kristiina Wilson:Yes, exactly On an object you have to kind of air those out a little bit.
Dr Gina Rendon:You don't want to put them in right after you spray because it can be kind of strong, but that's the way we use them.
Kristiina Wilson:That makes sense when I was saying that they don't work. It doesn't work if I've had clients who are like, oh, I got the spray and I just spray it in the room.
Dr Gina Rendon:Yeah, yeah.
Kristiina Wilson:That's not going to be effective. Right yeah what you're saying makes sense to use it on a towel in a carrier or to use it on a towel in an exam situation. Yep, don't buy the spray and just spray it around your room. Exactly.
Dr Gina Rendon:Exactly that's going to help yeah.
Kristiina Wilson:Yeah, that's not going to do anything.
Dr Gina Rendon:And I don't know if you want to segue into any of the other like more homeopathic types of.
Dr Gina Rendon:Yeah, we totally can, I think somebody asked about like supplements, and so a supplement that's on the market now is and again, no endorsements here but so Purina makes something called Calming Care, which is a probiotic, and it's a specific bacteria that it works. It's the gut brain connection, and so it works to actually increase serotonin in the gut that then affects the brain, and so they've done studies in dogs and cats, and it's just little packets that you put on the food. It's not something that it is that's for immediate use. So again back to our spray. Right, you know it's something that you have to use. It takes about a month for that to get on board, and so it's something that you would use. Let's say, you're going to move or something and you're anticipating that there's a change, or you're about to go on vacation, then that would be something that you could start ahead of time. Or if you're in a multi cat household and there's stress, then something like that.
Dr Gina Rendon:There are also diets on the market now that have either L-theanine, or L-tryptophan, which have been shown to actually boost, you know, calming, you know, I don't know what they actually boost, but they help with calming for cats, and so I think a lot of the like pills and Royal Canin have those diets cats and so I think a lot of the like pills and Royal Canin have those diets. And then, one last thing that I would recommend for somebody who doesn't want to jump to Prozac would be there's something called Zylkein which is a milk protein that that also seems to have calming effects.
Dr Gina Rendon:So those are all kind of non medicated supplements that you can use. That what?
Kristiina Wilson:about CBD. I get a lot of clients asking about cbd and I know you had recommended a particular type of cbd for pain. What do you think about cbd for management of anxiety and depression in cats?
Dr Gina Rendon:I think that it can help with with anxiety. I don't know if I would necessarily say for depression. You know, depending on the, I don't think it's going to hurt. So that's what I would say. And so if you wanted to try it and my recommendation is LVET that's the one that I typically recommend because they worked with Cornell doing their studies and so you know it has what it says it has.
Kristiina Wilson:And that's E-L-L-E-V-E-T.
Dr Gina Rendon:Yeah, I don't know why they called it that Female vet. Yeah, I know, I know, I don't know. Anyway, and their whole website. They have catnip flavored CBD and it comes as paste. I think it comes as chews. It comes in different formulations to make it a little bit easier.
Kristiina Wilson:For cats. It comes as paste, it comes as an oil and then it comes as pills that have the oil in them.
Dr Gina Rendon:It's not a chew.
Kristiina Wilson:There's no chews for cats, oh, okay, okay, yeah, the chews are just for dogs, okay. So what types of medications are typically prescribed to cats with anxiety and what are their potential side effects? I know you mentioned GABA. We already talked a little bit about the fluoxetine Is there? Anything else that you would want to talk about, or have we hit everything?
Dr Gina Rendon:No, there are other, you know the serotonin, the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, so paroxetine, zoloft, which is sertraline, sertraline, something like that. So there are other medications which I just I feel like I always get pretty good results with the Prozac.
Dr Gina Rendon:So I don't typically use those, but there are a variety of other things. There's clomiframine, so there are if a cat doesn't respond to one, just to let people know. There are options for other types of medications that you can try. Those are the main longer acting antidepressants, and then there are medications like trazodone, which is more immediate acting, and then gabapentin, which is also more immediate acting, but both of those can cause sedation Right. So I typically only recommend those for things like traveling or going to the vet or fireworks or somebody's visiting. You know those types of things.
Kristiina Wilson:Okay, and do any of them have like real side effects, especially the, you know, ssris?
Dr Gina Rendon:So it can affect appetite initially, can cause stomach upset. So some animals will have a little bit of GI upset. That's temporary and then the longer they're on it they'll they can get past that. I had one kitty cat who we I always do blood work before starting and then again a month later. And the blood work was spotless at the beginning and then a month later when we rechecked, one of the liver values went unbelievably high, so like 3000, when the high end of normal is a hundred, yeah. And so we ended up having to take that kitty cat off of um the medication and um, and it was too bad because he really was doing well on it. So we ended up having to find something else. But um, so you know, sometimes there can be liver elevations. Some cats will have just initially be a little bit more sleepy on it. I've heard that a little bit.
Dr Gina Rendon:Nothing crazy, it's just a owners to identify and kind of manage specific stressors that their cats are going through.
Dr Gina Rendon:That's a good question.
Dr Gina Rendon:I mean, really it's about the history, so talking to them and finding out what's going on, but also just educating, so helping them to see from the cat's point of view. And I think that's often one of the issues that I end up dealing with as a vet, because I feel like there's this perception that, oh, just cats are so easy, they take care of themselves. You know they're not a lot of work, when the truth is is that they're very sensitive and they have very specific needs, and so a lot of the time it's actually educating clients about, you know, this is what they're missing, you know this. These are the things that I would recommend changing, or you know, whatever enrichment things. So you know, sometimes it's you have to do a lot of questioning and and really digging in to find out what the issue is, because often clients may not know what's what the problem is, because they don't recognize it as an issue for the cat and so yeah, so um, I don't know if that's a good enough answer, but I'm gonna kick you off the podcast, gina.
Kristiina Wilson:That's it for you. You're the worst. So at what point do you kind of kick? Kick a case over to someone like me who is a behavioral behaviorist? I? Don't even know my own job right now.
Dr Gina Rendon:But behaviors. And you know I actually send a lot of people to you. I don't know how many of them actually end up calling you, but for me, you know, because I have the appointment time is 30 minutes.
Kristiina Wilson:Yeah.
Dr Gina Rendon:And and we're we have to do a full history, a physical exam. We often do lab work, and so my time is limited and so generally, I try to take a thorough history. Talk about options in terms of these are the things that you can do. Sometimes the case is just more complicated. So anytime there's any issues with aggression, I feel like that's really serious, and so that would be something that I would bump to you pretty quickly, you know, again, ruling out things like it's aggression because of pain or something like that, and then also when it becomes a little bit more complicated because there are multiple cats and maybe the clients don't really understand what it means to have multiple cats and how they interact. Right, Because I feel like that's you know. So talking about something like that takes a lot of time, so I send them your way.
Kristiina Wilson:Yeah, that's totally fair. And that actually leads me into the first of our listener questions, which is how to handle cat stress when cats have have always gotten along, suddenly have beef right. And this is. I see so many inter-cat aggression in my practice and that kind of comes just from what you said, that when you have a multi-cat household you do have to put in a not insignificant amount of work to make sure that everybody has the right resources and a good amount of resources.
Kristiina Wilson:like you already touched on, they need to have separate areas for eating, for drinking, multiple stations, multiple toilets that aren't next to each other, toilets where they can't bully one another right, because a lot of cats, especially if they get stressed, they will turn into toilet bulliers. So toilets that have exits like multiple exits for them to get away from each other.
Kristiina Wilson:They need to have intellectual stimulation, environmental stimulation, as we already talked about, but if there's a sudden beef, it's important to look for where's that coming from right? Like, are they all of a sudden able to see a new animal? Is there a new cat wandering around that's perhaps unneutered or unspayed and that will really rile up everybody. Yeah, cats in the home. We've absolutely experienced that and that's why I've a big part of why I've been on this TNR kick in our neighborhood, because our guys will just start peeing on everything.
Kristiina Wilson:And also to obviously help the cats, but because we can only throw out so many couches Comes a real hit financially. But I think, getting to the root of the problem, especially by collecting data, I always like to have people, if they can't install cameras or they don't want to install cameras, at least start keeping a logbook of when incidents happen, the day, the time where it was, what was happening right before, what happened right after.
Kristiina Wilson:So, we can start to see is there a through line Like what is linking these incidents together? And then we can start working on a plan of attack and then certainly adding in more things for the cats so that they're more occupied in their brains and they have less times to worry about each other, and we may even need to do separation and reintroduction.
Dr Gina Rendon:But getting to the root of the problem is the biggest even need to do separation and reintroduction but getting to the root of the problem is the biggest, I think the camera idea is. So it is so easy to get a camera these days, and recently I had somebody who came in with his cat, who is, oh my god, beautiful bangle that was pooping outside the litter box, and thank God he had video to show me. And it was interesting because to me it was really obvious. Even though he had been watching this video he knew it wasn't obvious to him. They had this really lovely designer litter box that was.
Dr Gina Rendon:It was very beautiful, but from the video it was just really clear the cat would go in and he would pee and there was not enough room for him to poop, and so then he would go outside of the box and he would poop, and then he would cover up the poop, pretend he was covering up the poop and walk away. It was just, and from watching him and watching him in this little narrow litter box, it was just so obvious to me what was going on, and so having that video saved a huge amount of time. Of course they need a new box, yeah.
Kristiina Wilson:I, as you know, I'm a big proponent of cameras all over the place. We've got them at cat level all over the house.
Dr Gina Rendon:If people don't want to have cameras all the time, at least for figuring out what's going on. You know, just for the temporary it really makes a big difference. And so you know, we get a lot of video of things like is this a cough or is this a gag, you know, because sometimes that can be hard to determine. So I really encourage people to take advantage of that technology.
Kristiina Wilson:I agree and I know I've sent you video of is this a cough or is this a gag?
Dr Gina Rendon:Yes, 100% you've gotten those from me.
Kristiina Wilson:You've gotten a lot of annoying videos from me Sorry.
Kristiina Wilson:I'm the worst. Another question is how do you reduce stress for a sensitive cat in a multi-cat household, and I think we've already given a lot of strategies to answer this question. I would say definitely install those Feliway diffusers. If you can. I would again go with the Optimum, because then you're getting both pheromones You're getting the bunting pheromone and you're getting the nursing mother's pheromone and those are just saying like hey, this is my territory, you know I'm comfortable here and we're all family and we all get along. So you might as well get more bang for your buck and then adding in additional play time If you want to do clicker training, if you want to try doing harness training and taking people out for a walk, especially if that sensitive cat, our most sensitive cat, kitten man, as you know, he is harness trained and when he starts getting oh he's right here he starts getting a little punchy.
Kristiina Wilson:We make sure to take him out for extra walks, because movement is really helpful, exercise is helpful and I think also, when you're in a multi cat household, they all tend to want some alone time with you and so it's important to build that in, so just look out for that sensitive cat what it is yeah, what it is that they need, and so it's important to build that in.
Dr Gina Rendon:So just look out for that sensitive cat.
Kristiina Wilson:What it is, yeah, what it is that they need and give it to them in an extra way so that you can reduce that stress yeah yeah, absolutely. Um, somebody else wants to know how do I know if my cat is depressed and if he needs a cat friend. Um, and I think we already covered the how do you know if your cat is depressed part do you have any thoughts about on the cat?
Dr Gina Rendon:friend. Yeah, my philosophy about cat friends you know from. For single cat households, adding them in it's a little bit like getting a roommate for a human, because, unlike you know where I feel like if you're a dog, friendly dog, it's pretty easy to get another dog in the house and usually it's going to be OK. But with cats that's not necessarily true. It can go either way. And so if somebody just brought in a roommate for you, are you going to necessarily like them? Maybe not, and the same is true for your cat. And so you know, for one thing, you have to know what their personality is. You know, for one thing, you have to know what their personality is.
Dr Gina Rendon:My experience and I don't know if you necessarily agree with this, but I feel like the younger male cats tend to be more open to having new cats introduced, and the younger, in general, a cat is, they tend to be much more open to it. Older female cats forget it. No, don't do it. They do not want a roommate. They don't want a roommate. They don't need new friends, they have their friends, they're fine. Yeah, and so that that's generally. If somebody has an older cat, they're like oh, she needs a friend.
Kristiina Wilson:I usually say no, no, she doesn't want a friend. I am right there with you and in fact, all you're going to do is antagonize that older female cat and possibly give them, you know, urinary problems, or you know?
Kristiina Wilson:I always tell clients it's like if you tried to move a toddler into a house or a teen into a house with a grandma this is not a roommate situation that would work well, and the grandma just wants to watch her stories and go to sleep at 5 pm and the teen is like it's such a bad combo.
Dr Gina Rendon:Absolutely.
Kristiina Wilson:I've seen it so many times. Such a bad combo.
Dr Gina Rendon:It is. It's such a bad combo, yeah.
Kristiina Wilson:Someone else wanted to know how to ease moving houses with a single cat to prevent stress, depression etc. Do you have any tips?
Dr Gina Rendon:That's a really hard one because moving is so stressful Having moved many times in my life and it's stressful for the humans as well as for the animals. So you know, I don't know.
Dr Gina Rendon:I have to say you know the things that we were talking about, so maybe, starting ahead of time, by having your diffusers doing something like the Zilkene or the Calming Care, or getting a diet that has L-tryptophan or L-theanine in it. You know those, just kind of starting from there like as a baseline, get those things on board and then you know, as far as the packing and all of that goes, I guess, making sure that there's always a spot that your cat can go to and take care of themselves, where they can hide, where they feel safe, where they're comfortable, and that's got to be the last thing that you attend to. And so trying to do the things that are farthest away from that kind of packing your way around to the very end, and ideally what you would do, you know, if you plan well enough, is you can then get things moved over to the new place and get your kitty cat all established before getting things.
Kristiina Wilson:you know, I mean, I don't that would be my strategy, I think that's a good strategy and I can I can say, because we just did this two years ago what we did was, you know, we closed on this new place. I came here just plugged in Feelyway all over the house, but especially in the bedroom and my office, which are connected and which was going to be the holding area.
Kristiina Wilson:So I like to recommend that people have holding areas in their old home and in their new home so that you don't lose a cat while you're moving or, you know, while you're moving into your new home or moving out of your old home that it's a very high stress situation and cats bolt often. So, absolutely hold them in an area, especially if you have movers coming and they're moving stuff in and out, and even sometimes when you're packing. I have absolutely heard stories of cats who jump in boxes and get packed up, so that was a huge fear of mine.
Kristiina Wilson:So we kept the cats in one area while we packed and then let them out at night once all the boxes were shut. Did you hear about the cat that?
Dr Gina Rendon:got mailed.
Kristiina Wilson:Yeah, yeah, it, just it, it gets so crazy.
Kristiina Wilson:I was so terrified, or I've heard of cats like burrowing into couches and then you never see them again, like it just is terrifying. So keep your cats where you know that they cannot run or get packed right. Yeah, right, we move them up here. Ahead of time there was a built-in bed, so that was like already here, and then we had the movers come pack up the rest of our stuff, pick up the stuff I had. I gave the cats trazzin on the night before the morning of.
Kristiina Wilson:They're all carrier trained, so that was pretty easy. We just opened the carriers and they just went. In the morning of um we hired a cat moving service who? They came because we have 10 cats right so it's a big ordeal, it's not like one cat or two cats.
Dr Gina Rendon:There's right, yeah so they came.
Kristiina Wilson:They had a big special van where everyone was like belted in, and their carriers. They drove us up to our new house and I unloaded them, put them all in the bedroom which was saturated with feely way, unbeknownst to me they could. They found a hole and were able to get into the built-in bed. So they all jumped out and then I came back like 20 minutes later and I was like where's all the cats? And then they were all in the built-in bed.
Kristiina Wilson:But, then they came out and I had brought things from home like their scratchers and things that smelled like them. So then the movers came later that day. The movers did not move anything into that part of the house, they just brought everything and we moved it later, and then, once they were comfortable after a few days in this area, I gradually let them out.
Dr Gina Rendon:I let Steve out first because he's the head of the house.
Kristiina Wilson:So he could walk around, put his smell on everything. Once he was confident, which, you know, he was always confident.
Dr Gina Rendon:He was just like oh awesome, he owned every place. Yeah, he did, he owned every house he ever saw.
Kristiina Wilson:So he was just like cool, this is all mine. Once he put his smell on everything, I let everyone else out and then they were all happy. So, but it was definitely a process, and I think making sure that the cats are safe in areas where there's going to be a lot of noise, banging, unfamiliar people and sounds is the most important piece, and then also that, yeah, the medication part I was going to say the trazodone is definitely makes, yeah, a lot of sense.
Kristiina Wilson:Yeah, there was not a peep on the like two and a half hour drive, everyone's just like this is great. Yeah, no problem. And then they are. They're so happy up here, it's great Like they're so happy up here.
Dr Gina Rendon:It's great Like they're so happy They've got such great entertainment.
Kristiina Wilson:They do, but it was also just such a good transition because it was I was so crazy like planning it that it went very smoothly, and because we still had Steve who could just walk everyone through it and be like welcome everyone, we're good. Amazing. So I think all that stuff was really really helpful.
Dr Gina Rendon:Yeah.
Kristiina Wilson:Oh, someone else asked are my cats fighting because they're picking up on my stress? My answer would be I doubt they're fighting, but cats absolutely are picking up on your stress. I'm sure they can. They can see that your body movements are different. They can probably smell a change in you, so that might trigger them, have additional anxiety. Would they fight solely because of your stress? I don't know and I certainly wouldn't want you to go into like a place of blame, but I would think, right externally, are you doing less interacting with them because you're stressed, like? Are there other things that are happening because you're stressing, disrupted?
Kristiina Wilson:the are there other things that are happening?
Dr Gina Rendon:because you're stressed. Has it disrupted the schedule?
Kristiina Wilson:Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, like are you or has their schedule changed Like are you?
Dr Gina Rendon:not playing with them as much?
Kristiina Wilson:Are you not snuggling with them as much Like? Is one cat getting more attention than the other cat and is that causing them to fight? Like, is that kind of a trickle down of your stress or is is just you're coming and going unpredictable now like that kind of stuff? That's where I would go with that.
Dr Gina Rendon:Right, I agree, I bet all that. That would be what I would say.
Kristiina Wilson:Yeah, Someone else asked is it better to have a shorter drive for a closer vet or a longer one for a fear free vet?
Dr Gina Rendon:I guess it depends on how your cat does in the car. I think it's a. I mean I don't know. I guess it depends on a lot of things. If if the closer vet is rough and you know doesn't do well with cats, then I would say, go with the longer ride for your fear-free. But you know, I mean, I think there are just so many factors. If your cat hates the carrier, hates being in the car, everything is horrible, then I would say it makes sense to premedicate them before they go.
Dr Gina Rendon:In which case, if you're going to premedicate them, then go to the doctor that you work the best with and that works the best with your cat, and that's not always a fear-free place. So I think you just have to have a good relationship with your vet, and if it turns out that's the closer one, then great. But this is a good situation for pre-medications.
Kristiina Wilson:Absolutely, and on that same kind of track, is it okay to ask a non-fear-free practice with a vet that you love to make accommodations?
Dr Gina Rendon:Absolutely. It never hurts to ask, and especially if it's a vet that you love, then my assumption would be that you love them because they're open to working with you and that they're reasonable and that they love your pet. So I would imagine that they would be very open to whatever suggestions you have.
Kristiina Wilson:Yeah, somebody else asked how can I desensitize my cats to the car. That's a good question, yeah.
Dr Gina Rendon:Well. So from my point of view, one of the things that can be a problem for cats is that they can get car sick, and so make sure that you talk to your veterinarian about motion sickness medications that you can give ahead of time, and if it's super stressful, then again, trazodone is amazing. And so giving those medications, I think, getting them used to the carrier which is something you and I always talk about, making sure that that's not, you're not putting them in a carrier for the first time and then they're immediately getting in a car. That's just incredibly crazy. So just make sure that that's a place that feels safe to them.
Dr Gina Rendon:And again, we go back to our feel away spray on those towels and put those in there and get that all cozy. You know, ideally I think this is the hard part ideally going for drives that are short, initially, seeing how your kitty cat does, and then, you know, building up from there Hopefully you're not going from New York to California, and that's the first time your cat's been in a car, but yeah, so you know, slowly but surely, and using all the tools that you can, I agree, and I'm just going to add I think I feel like I say this on every episode, but, like carrier training, I'm the biggest proponent of carrier training.
Kristiina Wilson:Your cats should think that their carriers are like their fun little forts, Yep exactly. Like I said in my moving example, for most of our cats not the two that are still pretty feral and we do have to, unfortunately like catch and put into bags. But most of them, if we just put a carrier on the ground. It is a competition of who can get in the carrier.
Dr Gina Rendon:Who's going to get in first Right, and then we?
Kristiina Wilson:have to be like no, not you this time, you know, and it becomes like a thing of like who's actually needing to go to the appointment. So they should really view them as like a fun place that they get to go in. We all know that if you open a can, right, cats are very used to sounds.
Kristiina Wilson:They know the sound of something and they make an association with it. So if you open a can, a cat will come to the kitchen and be like Ooh, what am I getting? Where's my snack Right? By that same token, they have an association with, if it's not frequent, the sound of a carrier or the visual of a carrier and something bad coming with that. They're not stupid, yeah, so they're going to run and hide the second they start to hear that, and then you're going to continue making this behavioral loop tighter and tighter of something that is fear-based and bad with that carrier.
Kristiina Wilson:So you want to start out, just leave the carrier open. Fill it with toys and treats and things that are nice. Leave that carrier open or out all the time.
Dr Gina Rendon:All the time it's part of furniture, yeah.
Kristiina Wilson:If you have multiple cats, just leave one out or two out. You don't have to leave 10 out like in our house. That would be crazy, right Like we're not going to leave 10 out, unless it's the night before we're moving, in which case we did and they were like wow, this is a great party Like this is so fun.
Kristiina Wilson:And they were just all in and out of each other's carriers, even though they were high on trazod, funnier, but just really work on that and then, like you said, work on now. Then you're picking up the carrier, now you're putting the carrier into the car. Now you know, and each time with like tiny, tiny little changes, now you're going on a five minute drive.
Kristiina Wilson:Now you're going to 10 minute drive. Now you're going to 15 minute drive. Right, like it can take time, but it's really worth it so that when it's time to go to the doctor you're not having to go like start two hours in advance chasing your cat around. And now your cat is really afraid of the car and the carrier and the vet.
Dr Gina Rendon:Yep, you would be shocked by how many appointments get missed because the cat wouldn't go in the carrier.
Kristiina Wilson:I'm not shocked at all, it's just it's, it's it's all the time.
Dr Gina Rendon:And yeah, it's a bummer for everybody.
Kristiina Wilson:I'm yeah, the time and yeah, it's a bummer for everybody. I'm yeah, I mean we we have had that problem with our feral cats because I I don't want to continue that loop with chasing them.
Dr Gina Rendon:Right Cause. Then you just didn't coming in and they're all slashed up because you know that's no fun either.
Kristiina Wilson:It's not, but just so the listeners know, if you can't get them in the first few minutes, my feeling is that you should stop and just reschedule that appointment if you have an understanding vet. Otherwise you're just further terrorizing this cat so that the next time you try it's going to be even harder, and then the next time it's going to be even harder, and then you're just tightening, yeah, tightening the noose, which is why it's so important to do it well, before you have to go.
Kristiina Wilson:Yes, yeah, Somebody said what are your thoughts about choice-based meals for picky eaters with stressed guardians?
Dr Gina Rendon:A buffet like putting out as many different foods and letting them choose. I'm all for it.
Dr Gina Rendon:I would say do it and then find out what they like. And you have. I feel like there are always two flavors of cats. There is the cat that will only eat the same thing every single day and never wants it to change. Or there's the cat that loves that can. The first day and then the second day they eat it, and so you have to change it every single time, yes, and so figure out which one yours is and then you know, rotate if they hate it the next day and keep it the same if they want it to be the same every day they hate it the next day and keep it the same if they want it to be the same every day.
Kristiina Wilson:So the question is how can I reduce stress in my cats when I work from home and I can't always stop when they ask, so I would personally would just add more again intellectual stimulation toys, things that they can do on their own. If you can put up a bird feeder, put out a lot of food puzzles. We didn't actually really talk about food puzzles, but food puzzles are a great thing for cats to be able to work for their own food.
Kristiina Wilson:I'm a huge proponent of um. If you give your cats dry food, only putting it in food puzzles, so they really have to work for every little piece of kibble and that's really helpful for giving them something to do, alleviating boredom and stress um, there's a website foodpuzzlesforcatscom.
Dr Gina Rendon:So go to that because that will give you ideas on. You can just make your own food puzzles, you don't have to spend money. Yeah, so, yeah, so go to that website that's, that's very helpful.
Kristiina Wilson:Yeah, you can make them out of like a toilet paper tube, absolutely yeah, absolutely, you can stack them together.
Dr Gina Rendon:you can use egg carts or egg crates. What are they called? Yeah, egg crates. Yeah, yeah, so there's just a ton Cartons. That's where the cart came from. Egg carts they're not egg crates. Egg cartons, yes.
Kristiina Wilson:Between the two of us, we've got half a brain.
Dr Gina Rendon:We're getting there.
Kristiina Wilson:Yeah.
Dr Gina Rendon:But yeah, so a brain, we we're getting there, yeah, but yeah, so definitely food puzzles, and but also I think that an important component of that is the routine thing yes, so getting getting them to understand you know this is playtime, and so maybe you schedule playtime right before you have to work and then making sure, especially if you're at home and you have the opportunity to do a midday, this is playtime, and just making it like really regimented, because they really man their internal clocks are so good, and so if you can develop a schedule that they can predict, then that's going to be the easiest for them.
Kristiina Wilson:Agreed and then also rewarding them when they are doing behavior that you like right, and then ignoring when they're doing a behavior that you do not want right. So that will that also goes along a long way into kind of helping to train them in this initial period that they should not bother you, even though they're not really not bothering you, but they shouldn't bother you while you're working. And then they get a reward if they. If they don't, you can like throw them a treat every once in a while.
Dr Gina Rendon:And no water sprayers.
Kristiina Wilson:Oh, yes, absolutely not.
Dr Gina Rendon:Aversives do not work on cats. They really don't work on any animals. It just freaks them out.
Kristiina Wilson:Yes, but it can actually it can go too far the other way and it can actually reinforce behavior that you don't want, especially if they're doing it because they're attention seeking. So, sometimes it actually more likely than not. Even though they don't like being sprayed, they still see it as attention from you right, because you're?
Dr Gina Rendon:spraying them.
Kristiina Wilson:And so we'll actually just reinforce that behavior that you don't want, because their highest value item is your attention. So or you can have a cat like steve, who would just be like amazing, thank you.
Dr Gina Rendon:Thank you for this fine mist, like you know I knew anything about cat behavior before.
Kristiina Wilson:This was my job, um, and when steve was young and he was extremely naughty, I tried like because that's out there in the lore is like use a spray ball and I tried that and he did not care at all.
Dr Gina Rendon:Early in my career, I recommended that that was the thing. Yeah, yeah, we all made a mistake and yeah that he did not care. Early in my career, I recommended that that was the thing.
Kristiina Wilson:Yeah, yeah, we all make a mistake, and yeah, that man did not care. I sprayed him right in his face and he was just like woo, thank you, it's refreshing Love. It Did not care and so I was like, well, this is dumb and yeah, it just. It doesn't no aversives work, so you want to always.
Dr Gina Rendon:Yeah, don't do aversives work, so you want to always, yeah, don't do aversive, yeah, ignore we're moving away from that. Yeah, no aversives.
Kristiina Wilson:Don't yell at your cat, don't spray them like don't clap at them, yeah, yeah because you're just, you're just reinforcing behavior, so ignore what you don't like, which can be absolutely very difficult. I'm not perfect at it. Sometimes I'm still like no, and then I'm like I'm just, you know, yeah, yeah, in the heat of the moment, nobody's perfect, like you said. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, ignoring and-.
Dr Gina Rendon:But recognizing that that's not helpful can be helpful Exactly.
Kristiina Wilson:Exactly All right. Well, thank you so much, dr Rendon, for appearing on this very muddled brain on my behalf. Episode of Hiss and Tell, where hopefully people learn something, I'm sure, from you. I doubt for me there are some nuggets here and there. No, absolutely, but thank you, as always, for being on the podcast and for sharing your vast wealth of knowledge with all of us. We so appreciate you.
Kristiina Wilson:Oh, we so fun and for anybody looking for the world's most amazing vet. If you're in the Brooklyn area, make an appointment with Dr Gina Rendon at Williamsburg Vets and that's my plug for you. All right, Thank you again. Go to catitude-adjustmentcom. Music provided by Cat Beats.
