Hiss & Tell: Cat Behavior and Beyond

Wobbly Cats, Big Hearts: Cerebellar Hypoplasia with Dr Gina Rendon

• Kristiina Wilson • Season 3 • Episode 34

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A wobbly step can still lead to a full, joyful life. We invited Dr. Gina Rendon, medical director at Williamsburg Vets, to demystify cerebellar hypoplasia (CH) and share how cats with this condition learn, adapt, and thrive. From the cerebellum’s real job in refining movement to the viral roots of CH through panleukopenia, we break down the science without losing sight of daily life at home. You’ll hear how to recognize early signs beyond normal kitten wobble, what makes CH different from vestibular issues, and why the condition is non-progressive—meaning time, smart setups, and practice truly pay off.

We also walk through practical, budget-friendly solutions you can use right away. Think traction over tile, foam tiles over hardwood, and soft bumpers where enthusiastic sprints end. Learn how to build simple standing troughs for balance training, use passive range-of-motion to keep limbs limber, and pick feeding stations with the right height and tilt to reduce mess and frustration. We share litter strategies—from low-entry boxes to mats with lips—that support independence, plus the surprising tail-base stabilization trick some caregivers use to help kittens practice standing. Along the way, meet Egg, our fearless CH kitten who turned wobble into willpower, teaching us why these cats are resilient, social, and often hilariously bold.

If you’re considering adopting or fostering a CH cat, we’ve got you covered on commitment and real expectations. You’ll get straight talk on home prep, cleaning routines, and the small accommodations that make a big difference. We also point you toward active CH communities packed with DIY ideas, gear tips, and vet recommendations. Whether you’re here for animal behavior insights, feline neurology, or heartwarming rescue stories, this episode offers tools and hope in equal measure. Subscribe, share with a cat-loving friend, and leave a review to help more people discover how special-needs cats shine.

Kristiina Wilson:

Welcome back to Hiss and Tell Podcast. Can you believe we're on season three? Today I am talking with Dr. Gina Rendon all about cerebellar hypoplasia. We're gonna talk about exactly what it is, where it comes from, how it affects cats, how to work with and help cats who have it, and a whole bunch of other stuff. And this is an issue that's really important to me as we now have a CH cat in our own family, an amazing kitten whose name is Egg. So we'll also be discussing her and her progress and all the stuff that we've done for her. So join us as we sit down and talk all about cerebellar hypoplasia. Welcome to another episode of Hiss Centel. I am your host, Christina Wilson, and with me today is Dr. Gina Rendon, medical director of Williamsburg Vet, and one of my favorite people, and definitely my favorite vet of all time. Welcome, Gina.

Gina Rendon:

Yay!

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, amazing.

Gina Rendon:

I was gonna start by sharing with you, you know, our um logo, our our bulldog logo that we've had for us. Yes. I had no no input in the design of that, and that that was designed, and I always felt like it was very dog-centric. And I've always really wanted a cat, and now we have a cat. And so, and I love it so much. They have a bunch of different you know versions of cats, and then we picked one and we tweaked it a little bit, and so I'll send that to you so you can.

Kristiina Wilson:

Please, yeah, I'll put it up on the screen.

Gina Rendon:

Just the cat and then the bulldog, and then the two of them together.

Kristiina Wilson:

So that's so cute.

Gina Rendon:

Very happy about that.

Kristiina Wilson:

I love that.

Gina Rendon:

Yeah, yeah, I love that.

Kristiina Wilson:

I will say, as a cat person, I never felt excluded by the logo, but yeah, but I also like, man, this is lame. Oh, I never, I I personally never knew you're not excluding cat people at the vet. Yeah, um, but that's exciting, that's good to know. Yeah, I'm excited about that. So, anyway, today's topic, now that we've talked for like five minutes about nonsense. Today we're talking about cerebellar hypoplasia. Uh well, let's let's go into you telling everyone what it is. What it is.

Gina Rendon:

Um, so we'll start with the cerebellum. I have show and tell. Ooh. Oh, so this is actually a horse brain. My um anatomy teacher gave me a fixed horse brain when I was in vet school. That's cool. I know, which is really cool. And so this is actually much bigger than a cat brain. A cat brain would be about the size of a walnut. They're actually really very tiny. But this part is the cerebellum, so this very involuted little part of the brain. It sits right under the cortex and above this the brain stem. And it is a very complex machine. It's a calculating machine. So um, so basically, the cerebellum is what refines movement, what uh establishes posture and balance. It has a lot of input from all of our sensory organs, from joints, from tendons, and basically it is a feed-forward type of a system. So when we already think think of like feedback types of systems like a thermostat, people are very familiar with that. You know, thermostat basically um wants your temperature to be at a certain level, it reads what the temperature is and then adjusts accordingly. A feed-forward system makes predictions about like what's gonna happen and then is correcting in real time. And so it's very complicated. The the cerebellum is incredibly interesting. I actually, um, when I was in grad school, I one of the things that I did was research with a a kid who had cerebellar agenesis. And um so we were doing studies, it was actually partly a cognition type of uh research. It was really interesting because it was about we were actually doing adaptation, so because the brain is very plastic, and so for him, we wanted to see whether he was uh able to adapt when things in the environment changed. That's interesting. He was such a delight, and I kind of you know, with um cats that have cerebellar hypoplasia, the thing that you hear over and over again is what delights they are, how loving and how and he was exactly that. He was just the sweetest, happiest, you know, most fabulous kid, and he was a little bit of a wobbly kitten. But anyway, so so cerebellar hypoplasia specifically means that the cerebellum has not developed for whatever reason, and there are different degrees of that, and it's caused mostly by exposure to panleukopenia virus either when the uh queen is pregnant, so in utero, or shortly after. So there's like about a four-week period after a kitten is born that they could potentially contract panleukopenia, and then that will affect the development of the cerebellum. So panleukopenia tends to affect the most actively dividing cells, and that happens to be the period when the cerebellum is developing, and so it can range from very significantly severe, and you know, with young kittens, I think the survival rate with panleukopenia is like 50%.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah.

Gina Rendon:

Um, so it's the mortality rate is very high. Um, it's interesting because I feel like there are those kittens that people don't maybe not even know that they have it until they start moving. Right. So there's there's definitely a spectrum, which will be one of the things that we talk about. But yeah, so it's a underdevelopment of this portion of the brain that is important in regulating movement, regulating balance, fine motor coordination, posture, all of that.

Kristiina Wilson:

Can you talk a little bit about how the cerebellum affects coordination and balance, like in terms of neurology?

Gina Rendon:

Yeah, it is very complicated. But so basically, there's you know, the the brain is taking in information from the environment. And um, and the cerebellum is not necessarily initiating movement, basically, it's taking this all of this input in and it's making decisions about how to move different muscles and bones and all of that, while also figuring out where your trunk is in space, and it takes into consideration like velocity and strength. And so something as simple as grabbing, you know, a mug, like a something like this. Uh, when you're holding something like this, obviously this changes the load of your hand. And so your cerebellum is calculating what it thinks this is gonna weigh and how much force you need to put in your muscles in order to hold this, you know, how to grab it. When you're grabbing something, you actually are moving all of these muscles. So you're moving, you're moving your shoulder, your elbow, your wrist, and so it coordinates all of these movements at the same time. And so when you don't have the cerebellum, you actually have to move this first, and then you might move that second, or you might, you know, it's all out of order. So everything's all discombobulated without the cerebellum. The cerebellum is basically just this very fine-tuned, um, it's almost like an equalizer, you know, it's making sure that everything is in balance. Um, and of course, it's incredibly complicated because you can imagine like what that requires to figure all that out.

Kristiina Wilson:

So without the cerebellum or with an underdeveloped cerebellum, since there are degrees of this, then is the rest of the brain then taking over like some of this, and then that's what is gives the the cat the ability to move, but in such a wobbly, funky way.

Gina Rendon:

You know, the cerebellum itself is not responsible for uh initiating movement. So that's all in the cortex. So that's and and you know, the brainstem, all of that is is actually involved with the the movement, but it's the cerebellum itself that is actually making the calculations for um how to make things smooth.

Kristiina Wilson:

Got it.

Gina Rendon:

Yeah, exactly. So exactly. So if you don't have the cerebellum, you can still move, you know, you can still do all of those things, but that it's just that coordinator is not there anymore. So you got it. Yeah, so it's a it's a little it's a messy okay, that makes sense.

Kristiina Wilson:

So, and there's no like genetic or breed predispositions to this, right?

Gina Rendon:

It's just it's very uncommon now because there is a vaccine, and so um most cats are this is the first I'm hearing about this. Are you serious? Yeah, yeah, really? Yeah, so yes, so um it's part of the F VRCP vaccine.

Kristiina Wilson:

Oh, oh, oh okay, I'm stupid. I thought you were saying there's a vaccine for CH, not the panluke vaccine.

Gina Rendon:

Well, the panluke vaccine exactly is a vaccine against CH. Exactly. Yeah. Sure. Okay. So it's only queens that are not vaccinated. Right. Um, and then and it is a fecal oral root, which means that there has to be some, you know, it gets shed through the feces. It actually gets shed through everything.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah.

Gina Rendon:

Yeah, everything's so contagious. Very, very, very contagious, very resistant to cleaning, yeah. You know, it's a it's a really big deal. But the nice thing is that it's just not as common. I mean, I don't even know if it was ever really that common because the um the vaccine has been around. It's most common in rescue situations where you have these.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, we see it a lot in rescues. Like and it's ripped through this town and our neighboring town, through like feral populations. I never saw it in New York. Pam Luke, when I was doing rescue, never saw a case. I have seen so many cases here now.

Gina Rendon:

Yeah, that's in so many. Yeah, so that means that there's a lot of stray cats that are just not vaccinated. Yeah. Because the vaccinated mother will pass antibodies to their kittens. Yeah. And then there's that maternally derived antibody that will have some protection until kittens can start to get vaccinated at four to six weeks, or yeah. I mean, generally they get vaccinated at eight weeks if their mother has been vaccinated.

Kristiina Wilson:

So I'm so dumb. I told you there's a vaccination for cerebellar hyperplasia, and I was like, what are you talking about?

Gina Rendon:

There is.

Kristiina Wilson:

What a moron. I'm doing great. I should definitely have a podcast where I tell people things. Okay. I know. Oh my god, there's a rabies vaccine? What?

Gina Rendon:

No surprise.

Kristiina Wilson:

I know. Like, what? You need more? Oh my god. I think I've had too much coffee now. Okay, so what are uh what are the first signs that people might notice in a kitten with CH?

Gina Rendon:

Generally, I think, and you could probably speak to this with it's usually you don't you may not notice anything until they start moving, and still until they start to become mobile. Yeah. And so I mean, I think the the really sick kittens are probably not gonna make it. Um, but then uh the the kittens that do survive, once they start moving around, you may notice the reason that it's called wobbly cat syndrome. You just notice that they're wobbling around, um, having a harder time walking. They may have a harder time feeding, so sometimes they're a little bit smaller than other the other kittens just because they can't make it as easily to um to the teeth.

Kristiina Wilson:

Well, I noticed actually the one of the first things about egg was that she had a really hard time latching. Uh-huh. Um and then eventually she figured it out.

Gina Rendon:

So I don't know if that was part of CH or just swallowing, mouth control, all of that can go along to some degree. Yeah.

Kristiina Wilson:

She had a difficult time but eventually figured it out. But the first few days, I was like, what's going on with this kitten? And I had to like really keep sticking her on her mom and and trying to like facilitate that process. And then again, like you said, once they got to the stage where all of them were attempting to walk, you know, all cats all kittens are wobbly when they first start sure walking, right? And they do this like shaking thing when they're first starting to walk. And but I was looking at her and I was like, something's a little weird, tipping too, right?

Gina Rendon:

She's tipping.

Kristiina Wilson:

She was she was rotating, right? So she would try to move forward and be really shaky, but then she would do like a full rotation. Yeah. And that was, I was just like, oh, something's really weird with this kitten. But I tried to, I can get easily so paranoid with kittens, so I tried to just be like, let's just calm down and just maybe she's just uncoordinated. Yeah, like maybe she's just like, who know, whatever, you know. Um I I really tried to to cool it with that, but I think then you started getting panicky texts with videos from me pretty soon. When it's after that, being like, Gina, what's going on with this kid? Normal. Yeah. Yeah. Um and then once once her siblings were like really up and walking very normally, and she was still continuing to to attempt, she would walk and then just rotate and flop. And there was she was unable to move forward without falling to the floor. So we quickly just like padded everything. Um but it it was it was tough and it was tough to watch. The next question I have for you is like, Hur how early can you diagnose it?

Gina Rendon:

You know, I don't have a a specific answer for that because I think it really depends. There's no so there is no test other than doing imaging, so doing imaging, and it's not very likely that anybody's gonna take their cat to go for a CT or their kitten for a CT or an MRI. Right. Um, and so I think it really is just over time you start to realize that things are different. Um, I think one of the things that you and I both didn't know was that only one cat of a litter could be affected. Because we were kind of thinking, oh, this can't, because we both said, is it, is it CH? Yeah. And then we and then we had to we had to check and see. And so it not all kittens have to be affected. Um but but also um like you said, when kittens do start moving, they do have that wobbliness and they have they do have some degree of that intention tremor as well, where they're kind of bobbing along, but then they start to lose that over time and they become much more smooth, and the CH kitty doesn't lose that. And and then one of the other things that with um egg was that wide-based stance. So the triangle. The triangle, yeah, exactly. That kind of um very wide uh gate. Uh, and so that's when you start to realize. I mean, I think it's one of these things where it's just it's a matter of time and comparison to the other kitties, and just realizing, okay, things are not not really normalizing. Yeah, there's there's not this just a matter of observation.

Kristiina Wilson:

Is there any way that you differentiate CH from like any other neurological or like other disease, like like how Steve had vestibular disease? Like, how would you differentiate those things? Like, I know she didn't have nystagmus.

Gina Rendon:

They actually can have nystagmus. Oh, really? Yeah, they can have a whole there's a whole range of potential symptoms, and there's also other causes of um you know neurolog neurological signs in kittens, and so it could be like toxoplasmosis can be a cause, it can be trauma to the mother, it can be hypoxia. So if the mother, for whatever reason, was not getting enough oxygen at some point. So there are a variety of different things that could potentially cause neurological signs in kittens, but I think um, you know, there are certain things that the wide-based gait, you know, the cerebellar hypoplasia is very um, there are very specific signs to that, and it's mostly due to pan leukopenia. And so um, you know, one of the things that you will see is that it tends to be pretty static. So it's not something that gets worse over time. Yeah, and so kids that have like degenerative diseases that they're not getting better, they're getting worse, and and so they can actually have um cellular damage. There's a there's something called a lysosomal storage disease type of a syndrome that they can have, and those cats don't survive. So um, so basically, kind of depending on how significant, how severe their signs are, um, and we can talk about the spectrum of presentation. But so so you can have anything from kitty cats that really can't move. Um, you know, so the most severe cerebellar hyperplastic cats, they can't feed themselves, they can't move, they can't stand up. And so if you're not quick to intervene and to feed them and to nurse them and clean them, then they they will die. Um, and so you know, you can have those kiddies that really never get to that point where they can stand, and that can be true for their lifetime, right? Where they just for whatever reason so much of their cerebellum is affected that they're never gonna be able to stand up. Um, they're never gonna make it to the food bowl, they're never gonna make it to the litter box. Those are the most severe cases. They can have head tilts, they can have nystagmus. So if people don't know what nystagmus is, it's when the eyes track back and forth. Um up and down, right? Or up and down. Up and down is pretty pretty. So that's pretty bad. Yeah. That's that's a bigger deal. Yeah. So it's usually it's usually side to side. That can also happen with inner ear stuff, though, so that can be vestibular. Um, but uh they can have in some cases, even af with panluke, if it affects enough of the brain, they can have seizures, which is not that common, but yeah, that can be a component. So it kind of depends. So you have those most severe cases with the kitty cats that can't move. You have the kind of moderate cases where the kiddies can move, but they always fall. Yeah. So they basically are never really standing, they're just kind of flopping to wherever they need to go. Um and so, even as you know, young adults, you really have to have structures for them in order to get them to places or like carpetings, things that they can grab onto because they'll just keep flopping. Yeah, exactly. So those kitty cats that never really are able to stand, and then you have the really mild ones that they can stand and they can get around, but they have those floppy, those legs that kind of flail out. Yeah. And the time they get close to the food, then they do the that whole intention of the thing.

Kristiina Wilson:

Chicken, yeah.

Gina Rendon:

Yeah, exactly.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, I call it the chicken peck. That's how egg eats is just like there.

Gina Rendon:

Trying to calibrate, yeah. Yeah, it's very cute. Yeah, it is. It actually is cute. Um, but the good news is that, you know, they're they're not they're not painful, they're not unhappy. It's not, you know, they're not self-conscious, they're not um, they don't regret that they weren't. It's funny, I was talking to my husband about this, and he was like, regret is a human disease. It is. Yeah, it's a human disease. And so they they tend to be really happy cats. Um and even I think the most severely affected, if you have a really good, dedicated guardian, then those cats actually can do really well. And I've seen, you know, some some some of these people who really put in the time really put in the effort for those kitties. So that's really nice.

Kristiina Wilson:

No, I I agree, and I'll say with egg, egg's the only CH cat I've ever, you know, had. Yeah. And it's been amazing watching her. It seemed very severe when she was young, you know, she couldn't, she couldn't move without flopping, with she couldn't move, she couldn't get herself anywhere. Yeah, um, and I'll I'll talk about all the stuff that we built for her and and did for her for PT as we get into this more, but she has never seemed to be bothered by it at all. She's immediately took over the house and took charge of all her uncles, and is just like absolutely full of herself and does whatever she wants and doesn't care that she's different. And when her siblings were still around, they all played. It's true what your husband said, it's all us putting things on them, and she's just like, whatever, I do what I want. She's found her ways to to be be able to do almost everything that everybody else in the house does. Yeah, and it really is it really is amazing to see. She's an amazing little person who's just like, I do whatever.

Gina Rendon:

Exactly. Yeah, it is. It's really that they're really people who have them love them. People who who uh take care of these little kitties, they I they always just across the board talk about how happy they are.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah.

Gina Rendon:

So yeah, it is it's really nice.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, she's she could really have a career as a motivational speaker, I feel like. She's just like she's gonna do whatever she wants. Um so do the symptoms change as kittens grow up? I know we talked about that a little bit, that they don't get worse, but at least in my experience, from her, you know, I've I've known her since the day she was born. She was so bad when she was little. And now she definitely flops still when she walks. You know, she can't walk more than a couple feet without falling over, but she's so much better. Yeah. And she's only six months old. That I hope that as she continues to develop and train her brain, she will continue to improve, at least into young adulthood. I don't know what your thought is. Yeah.

Gina Rendon:

So some of them I and part of it is um muscle strength. Right. So building up um, you know, some degree of being able to hold themselves up. And so we'll we'll talk about physical therapy because I think it's something that you're you've been doing and is very it's um it's very interesting. But if so, if a kitten is never able to stand, then they can't necessarily build that musculature to be able to, you know, to do those things. So so it would require some um assistance.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Gina Rendon:

Um, they can improve as as time goes on with muscle strength, and the brain actually is really very plastic. So even though the cerebellum does, you know, all this fine-tuning and all of this more motor coordination, yeah, they can definitely improve. And the I was saying the brain is so plastic that it um that it can take over some of the you're never gonna completely you're not gonna have a normal cat, but you can definitely see some improvement. The the good thing is that it doesn't get worse over time, right? And so, yeah, with with help, you really can um assist them in in acquiring some some coordination.

Kristiina Wilson:

So to to get into that, like what how important do you think physical therapy or occupational kind of therapy or play is for helping them, especially if you if you are fostering or adopting a CH kitten.

Gina Rendon:

Yeah.

Kristiina Wilson:

How important do you think that is to help them learn balance and mobility and strength, like you said?

Gina Rendon:

I think it it you know it certainly depends on the how um severe their symptoms are. And so the more severe, obviously, the more help that they need. For the mildly um affected cats, they probably don't need as much.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Gina Rendon:

You know, they they get along fine because there's a certain, you know, point where you're really not gonna get much better.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Gina Rendon:

And you know, the the they'll have some of the mild cases, mostly you see just the resting tremor. And so you're not gonna get rid of a resting tremor. That's always gonna be there. But um, but so for the more severe cases, being able to um even do like passive range of motion to get their muscles to keep their their limbs limber and their moving, that also helps with building muscle mass. And so range of motion, um assistance in balancing, so using either troughs or whatever to get them to stand up so that they can put weight on their legs and work their, you know, all of the muscles in all of their legs. Um, and that also helps to stabilize their trunk. So all of that is, I think, really important um if you can do it, you know. But it does it does require um the you know, the time. It requires some dedication to do it. So but it does is very worth it.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, I I agree with it. So it's like, okay, let's tackle this because at that point she couldn't stand on her own. Um, you know, she had a hard time eating. Like it was it was all all of that stuff. So I had to feed her off of my finger and like put the food in her mouth. And um, oh, here she comes. Hi, A. Oh. Oh here's a precious.

Gina Rendon:

Look at how beautiful.

Kristiina Wilson:

She is very beautiful. She also looks like a ghost. I don't know why we're so pale over here. And she has the cute little circle on her tummy. Um, what was I saying? Right, so she couldn't eat. She couldn't eat well. Um, she couldn't stand without falling over. So we tried to get lots of food in her so that she was able to build the muscle strength that she would need. She's a little rounder than she maybe should be, but I want to really keep her being able to be super strong because now she's very, very strong in her back legs so that she can push off and like jump places and get places that she wants to. And then I built her a ton of mobility aids that that anyone can build cheaply. I got those like under-the-bed blockers that you can buy. There's like plastic L's that come with sticky things, and taped those down and put pool noodles on the top for just padding. And then those were her little hallways to either like stand up, just practice standing in. So I would measure her every week and then expand them as needed. So she could stand in them and they would hold her, and she could practice standing and then eventually practice walking and kind of like bonk from side to side but not fall. And so that would train her legs also to get stronger and stronger, right? So she used those for a really long time until eventually she was able to just walk on her own, which was amazing, and now she does, and she still flops, but she like she walks all over the place and it's it's great. And now she jumps and she's she's doing awesome. And then for her litter box, we did the same thing because she had a really hard time standing, and she couldn't stand in a traditional litter box and just fall over and then was getting baths all the time because she was constantly covered in stuff. So I made her her own litter box that had a deep cutout all the way to the floor in the front, and then again the same things, and I'll try to put pictures in here if I can. The same um floor blockers with the same foam padding on the top, so that she could just walk straight in. There was a little pile of litter in between the two floor blockers, and then she could just stand there, go to the bathroom, and then exit out the other side. So there were two holes cut in, so it was just like a little trough that you go in and go to the bathroom and then walk all the way out. And that worked really well. And her siblings didn't use it either, so everybody knew that, like, oh, this is just for egg. And then that way she was able to figure out going to the bathroom, find a posture that works for her, and now she uses that same posture, but in just a regular litter box. And she even goes in the litter robots and stuff and just like flings herself out of them like a crazy person. Because you know, they're high up, so I didn't think she'd ever use them. She does, and then she just like she's like a frog because she's so strong in her back legs that she just like boings out and like flops around. Flops around. Yeah, and um I also found on.

Gina Rendon:

Is she pretty big? Does she like the litter? Is she a uh yeah?

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, oh yeah, she loves digging. All over the place, yeah. Yeah, it's great. We love that. Yeah, it's super fun. Yeah, yeah. I just am sweeping constantly. Um and for the eating, because that was really hard for her at first. She's she's a little she's better now, she's less messy, but the first like four or five months of her life, it was just like she once she graduated from hand feeding, because I I do think she had some issues with swallowing and like her jaw, yeah, like there were weird sounds and stuff happening. Once she kind of coordinated that, finding a bowl that was the right height and the right pitch for her was a challenge, and I found I will try to find I'll find a photo and put it in here, and then I'll also put links to all of this stuff in the show notes for this. I found a bowl that was really great. It's two bowls that come on like a little stand, and you can change the height of them. They just you just take like pegs on or off. So as she grew, I could add pegs, and they come on like the perfect tilt. So, and then you just take the bowl part off and wash it and put it back on. So as she grew, I could just add height, which was so helpful. And then also uh the other thing that we did and that we still have all over the place is padding for these guys, especially when they're kittens and they're so floppy. Yeah, basically, we approached the house as if we had an infant, yeah, and just child proof the crap out of everything. I bought a giant box of pool noodles, and they're like everywhere because they're really good, they're about the right height for a kitten to just like be a buffer on a wall, so all the walls are just covered in pool noodles, all the chair legs. I would just cut a like a side of the pool noodle and stick it on the chair, so the chair legs are all covered in pool noodles. And I just had a new trainer come by the other day and she was like, What's up with all the pool noodles? Like, I'm so used to it at this point. And I was like, Yeah, it's uh it's the latest in interior decorating. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, you haven't heard about pool noodles, like so embarrassing for you. Um, yeah, so all the furniture is covered in pool noodles because now she's learned that if you run, you're more stable, right? Oh, interesting. So she sprints because then she can actually get places because of the velocity, right? So she'll sprint and then be unable to really stop herself appropriately and will just bash into things. Foam tiles that you can buy for kids that like you. Yeah, and so those are covering like the whole house essentially.

Gina Rendon:

And another thing about those too. So for the cats that don't aren't able to walk, they will often just drag themselves. So these cats are great at um climbing. Yes, yes, because you don't want you don't want smooth floor. No. So if you love um hardwood or you love tile like your that's our whole house, right?

Kristiina Wilson:

Hardwood and tile.

Gina Rendon:

So that's why not not very helpful for those poor little kitties, and so having something that they can grab on to to move around is really, really important. And it's true for the the pool noodles too, they can just um get their little nails in there and move along.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, so she's the one cat who, like you said, we don't cut her nails because she needs them to be able to climb up our couch or like climb up all the stuff that she likes to climb up, and like you said, to also get purchase into when she stands, because she does stand and she's doing this, but she's digging her nails into the foam tiles or into the areas where we have rugs, all of those things, but there are foam tiles now, like all over everywhere.

Gina Rendon:

Yeah, it's just I mean, I suppose you could do carpeting too.

Kristiina Wilson:

Carpet would be yeah, but the problem with carpet when you have 14 cats and one of them who's having some urination problems is you don't you don't want carpet.

Gina Rendon:

You're ripping that up as soon as you have put it up.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, so it's it's a the tiles are easier because somebody barfs, you could just take that one and throw it away and put another one down.

Gina Rendon:

You can also clean them, you know, if they're not oh yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. If they're not too ripped up, then they're not too coarse, yeah.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, so but yeah, all all the stuff for for climbing, making sure that they're safe as they're learning so that when they flop, they're gonna be safe. As they play, they're gonna be safe. So even cover your low tables should be covered and fall, like everything should be covered the same way that you would baby proof.

Gina Rendon:

If they get up to a place, make sure that they have landing soft lands.

Kristiina Wilson:

Landing spots.

Gina Rendon:

Landing spots are important, yeah.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, yeah. She recently started to come into our bed, which is great, we love, but then we realize when she the way she gets down from places is not to like slowly get down the way a cat normally would, is she just throws herself launches herself off with no regard as to where she's going or how it's going to impact her head. So she just throws herself off and then just toddle runs off, and we're just like this poor girl's head. Like we can't. So then we had to like cut put like layers of the tiles again in the bedroom, like in the kind of the impact zone where she throws herself off. Yeah, well.

Gina Rendon:

Well, I've heard too, though, that people who do have these little kitty cats that toss themselves around so much, they're pretty resilient.

Kristiina Wilson:

Oh, she she 100% is it's us that we're always like, oh it's not exactly, exactly.

Gina Rendon:

Often are, you know, I think it it's alarming, but they somehow manage.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, she's fine, she doesn't care at all. It's 100% us. And the neurologist said that to us too, because it and she was very young when we took her. She wasn't anywhere as as good as she is now. But Ali was like, What should we do? She's always hitting her head. And the neurologist was like, They're fine. He was like, they're he was said exactly what you did. He was like, they're that there's this normal for them, they're very resilient, they're not gonna hurt themselves. Um yeah, but it it is sometimes it's a hard watch. And so I think for us as humans, we feel better. Right, yeah, yeah. If she's throwing herself off the bed with reckless abandon and we hear less of a thunk, right? It's muted. That's for us because she doesn't care or she wouldn't do it. Right, right, yeah. Anyway, do you have any specific enrichment ideas or exercises that would help to strengthen their muscles or coordination, especially when they're little?

Gina Rendon:

So, you know, I I have to say I came into this knowing about you know the anatomy, right? And so I did have to do a little bit of research into some of the the um physical therapy stuff. Um and so I have to I'm not an expert by any means. Yes, but it seems like you know, a lot of the really what seems to me very helpful stuff is is a lot of the balance training. So having the troughs that you can have the kitty cats standing in so that they can start to develop muscle strength in their core and their legs, and so helping them with that, encouraging them. They love to play, so just because they're you know having coordination issues, you know, attempting them with your string toys and feeding them their churu, whatever you need to do to get them moving through makes a big difference. I saw one video which was kind of interesting. Um, that apparently you can also help them by holding the base of their tail. Have you seen this? No. So that you can stabilize a kitty for whatever reason, so not the tip of their tail, but towards the base, and you're not pulling your base. Yeah, you're just holding it. And apparently it it kind of stimulates the whole spine and and can coordinate them so that whereas they're usually just flopping over, you can steady them, and that's also a good way to help them build some. Yeah, so that was kind of interesting. Um some cats are never gonna get to that point, and so there are some cats that you're gonna end up having to do like a um a wheelchair for, yeah. And so some some cats you actually have to provide, you know, that kind of support and that kind of structure to move around, but um, but yeah, uh, you know, again, I'm not an expert in that specifically, but there's a lot of really fun YouTube videos.

Kristiina Wilson:

That's really interesting about the tail thing. Yeah, before you know, we had done all this physical therapy with egg. I was because she was so bad in the beginning. One of our friends works in aid for people who are developmentally disabled. And so she has a lot of expertise in this this um field. And she has a 3D printer at work, so she's like, ooh, we'll we'll make an assistive device for egg. And she started like measuring her. If it was unfortranges, this was when egg was growing like so fast all the time, right? So she'd print something and then she would have already grown out of it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, right.

Kristiina Wilson:

But we were starting to develop some type of you know, a cart for her, yeah. Um where she would her body would sit and it would hold her steady, so it would be like a curved, like a U shape that she would sit in, and then we'd put wheels on the side that would come out, and then she could just load herself around. Yeah, uh, but every time we tried to fit her in it, she's so true to her mindset now. She was like, I don't need your help, get us off me. She hated it, and she was just like, I'm gonna figure this out. Like, get us. She just wanted no part of it. Not her thing. And it just it absolutely makes sense knowing her as well as I know now that she was like, No, yeah, no, no, no. But that is something that you can do. One thing that I forgot to say for Egg when she was really little before she was up and able to move around, that you know, her siblings were playing and she wanted to play. I got her one of those baby playmats that people get for the infants that is like a padded mat, and then it has those play structures, right? That has like a mobile and other toys. So there's dangly things, yeah. Right, the dangly things. So that number one, they're safe because they're made for human babies, so you know it's gonna be safe for kittens. And she loved it. All the kittens loved it, but she really loved it because she could be on her back, uh-huh, she could stretch up so she's working on her core muscles. She had things to play with so she didn't feel left out, and then as she got stronger and stronger, she could start pulling herself up the like little foamy arches, and it was it was so great, they all loved it so much. Yeah. So and that's like just for kittens. I exactly. I was just gonna say, this is something that just kid that all of them were like, This is so fun. And honestly, when I first got it and I was putting it together in just the regular part of our house, not in the kitten room, our cats were all like, What is this? We want this, and I had to kick them off of it because like Gene and Butters were like, DANCS, this is our toy now. You guys get off.

Gina Rendon:

Yeah, yeah.

Kristiina Wilson:

So I feel like all cats kind of want a baby play, but yeah.

Gina Rendon:

Once once you brought that up, that definitely sounds like a cat cat uh amusement park for sure.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, they loved it. Do you have any thoughts about how people can support CH kittens socially? Like, I mean, I there's it's it's they're essentially the same, like it's not really different.

Gina Rendon:

Yeah, yeah. I think um again, I think it depends on the severity because for some kitties, if they're so impacted and they're not moving, they're not socializing. Right. And so um, you know, I think that that can be hard because there is that critical period where um between what is it, like six and twelve weeks where they really need to socialize to learn things. Yeah. So sometimes it can be really hard. Um, and they don't always have siblings, you know, sometimes they're on their own. So I think it's up to you to help socialize them, you know, make sure you're interacting with them and offering them toys and things like that.

Kristiina Wilson:

But yeah, and I I would say do all the same things that you would normally do to socialize a regular kitten. Yeah, exactly. I will say with egg, she is what she's one of our boldest cats, and she's the one who like all of our cats are vacuum trained to different degrees because we got them all at different ages. But egg does not give a shit about the vacuum. You know, I could vacuum her and she would be like fun. Yeah, like she will come and chase after me when I'm vacuuming with like the carpet vacuum, which is really loud.

Speaker 3:

Uh-huh.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah. Because I I vacuum trained her and her siblings when they were little all at the same time. And so now she's just like, so you really can train them and socialize, like you should treat them in the same way that you would any other kitten. Like have them meet lots of people, have them meet other animals, have them around different sounds, and like yes.

Gina Rendon:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Kristiina Wilson:

They're not any more socially fragile than any other cat.

Gina Rendon:

Yep.

Kristiina Wilson:

So, yeah. Um, and I just I just say that because at the beginning I was like, oh no, uh, like I've never dealt with it, you know, like I don't know what to do. Yeah, and then eventually I was like, you know what? She I can't handle her this way, like I have to handle her as though she's any other cat, and all of this is what I'm bringing to the table, and she needs to be raised like this is no big deal, like this is no problem. And I'm really glad that I got to that point because if I hadn't, I don't know if she would be this tough. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and independent and just strong. So anyway.

Gina Rendon:

Um I mean, I think especially in your house where she really needs to get along with the other kitties, yes, it's really important. So if you if you hadn't, then you may uh end up having to have her separate. Right. She wasn't used to socializing, so yeah.

Kristiina Wilson:

It's true, but yeah, no, she she she's really taken over. She is like really the boss of the boy gang, and they're so in love with her, they're so protective of her and loving, and like, but then she'll just like attack their heads, you know. It's just they're just they just I think that they think that she's their pet or like she's their baby, and they just are obsessed with her. It's so cute. So she's got this gang of seven uncles who all adore her. Uh-huh. That's lovely. It is the cutest, the cutest thing. So, what would you say to somebody who's hesitant and thinking about adopting or fostering a CH cat?

Gina Rendon:

Want to make sure that they um that they were devoted enough that they would be able to make sure that the environment was appropriate for their cat. Yeah, that that if they're intent on having hardwood floors and and and tiling and all of that, and they don't want to alter their furniture, then maybe it's not the right the right fit. So there is some some um things that you have to be able to um live with. Live with, yeah, exactly. And and you know, you and and for some of these cats, they are messy. So like the food can be all over the place, the litter can be all over the place, and so just being aware of that and just knowing that there are certain accommodations that you have to make, but that if you are willing to make those accommodations, it can be an incredibly lovely relationship. People really love their CH kitties, so uh to me, I mean, it's you just have to be a good, a good cat guardian. Um I agree. I don't want people, you know, and that that's true for any person, you know, you don't want somebody that wants a cat just because they're gonna look pretty on the couch, but but you do have to do a little extra for these just to make sure that that their life is and I think it's for their quality of life, you know, to make sure that they can get around and that they can get around safely and that you're not gonna be bummed out when you know, when there's litter where you don't want it to be. You know, you just have to deal with that.

Kristiina Wilson:

And the the litter thing is depending on the type of box that you have, it's really not that difficult to solve that you can get those litter mats, or you could get like um mats that have a lip, right? Like big plastic mats with a lip that then you put the box in.

Gina Rendon:

Exactly. Exactly. So so yeah.

Kristiina Wilson:

There's a lot of containment strategies that you can do if you're willing. Yeah, exactly. You know, or you just patrol like I do with a broom in a dustpan. Like you just do that a couple times a day in your little area, and then you're okay.

Gina Rendon:

I think one of the questions that you had sent was support groups.

Kristiina Wilson:

Oh, yes, yes.

Gina Rendon:

Um, which I think you would be able to answer that more than me. But I mean, I think there's always a lot of Facebook groups. I do know.

Kristiina Wilson:

I was just gonna say there is a really, really good, um, there's a few, but there's one that's really good, and I'll put a link to it um in the show notes as well on Facebook of uh people living with cats uh with cerebellar hypoplasia, and it's it's a really great resource where you can find, you know, people post, oh, I've done this to help my cat, and I've done this. And if if you're brand new to it, it's as I was, it's a great place to just go in and and just peruse. You can search topics, obviously, if you're trying to figure out what's a good litter box or what's a good this or that. Um it's just a nice community to have where you can kind of and also share progress and and find vets near you if you need to who are are helpful with these cats. So I would definitely explore Facebook groups. Um I'm sure there's probably some Reddit groups. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, there's probably some Reddit groups and probably some Discord groups as well that are similar that I'll I will explore and put in the show notes as well to see what I can find. Um because you had said that of the cats that you've seen in your practice that people really talk about their personalities and that there's these amazing cats. And I what I'm curious about is do you think that there's a link between their unusual brain structure and them having these amazing personality types? Or do you think right? Or do you think it's because owners are forced in a way to spend more time with CH cats that they then become, I don't want to say more attached, but they notice more because ch cats require a little bit more work, and so then they're attaching more meaning to their cats and their cats' personality.

Gina Rendon:

I mean, it certainly could be that. Um, you know, my N of one of the human that you know had I mean he l he was such a joy. He was so happy and so up. I can't even um I can't even overstate what a what a wonderful kid he was. And so part of me feels like that must be the condition.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Gina Rendon:

You know, there must be but I I have no idea. I mean, I don't think we really know, you know, what what i i if the um cerebellin really plays a part in personality or you know, any of that. But um I I have yet to hear anybody tell me they have a mean CH cat.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, yeah. I'm just cu I'm just curious. Maybe we can make a study up and figure it out.

Gina Rendon:

Oh, there you go.

Kristiina Wilson:

Honestly, like I think it's so interesting. Either whichever way it would go, I think would be so interesting. Is it a mechanism of the brain or is it a mechanism of the socialization and the bonding that goes on between owner and cat?

Speaker 3:

Exactly.

Kristiina Wilson:

Either way would be such an interesting finding. Yeah. I would be so interested in figuring this out. So, do you have a message that you would want our listeners to take away about, you know, living with or caring with a cat with cerebellar hypoplasia?

Gina Rendon:

I would say is that the people who do take on these kitties, these special need kitties, find it very rewarding. Um, and and it's not unusual, I think, from from my experience is once you have one of these kitties and you've had this relationship and you realize how rewarding it can be, they often will go on to um adopt more special needs kitties. So it's kind of it's nice. So yeah. Yeah, don't um don't not do it, you know.

Kristiina Wilson:

I I agree. I think our lives have really been changed and and really honestly blessed by Egg as crazy as she is. It has been so rewarding going from her being so challenged at first and seeing her be so strong and so motivated, and like I don't know how much of what I did helped, and then versus how much of it is just her being such a strong, bull-headed, motivated young lady. Inspirational, right?

Gina Rendon:

She is very inspirational that she just why am I complaining about my dumb things when you get look at how they manage and are happy and doing fine.

Kristiina Wilson:

100% that she just has so much get up and go, and she's just like, I'm gonna figure out how to do this thing I want to do, and I don't want your help. And if you help me, I'm gonna get mad and go do it on my own after you help me because shut up, you know. Like she yeah, she just she just wants to do it all on her own, and it really is so cool to see. Yeah. And I would 100% if if we didn't already have 14 cats, which is already too many cats, and that's not even counting the fosters that are in the uh in the baby room right now. I would absolutely be open to taking on more special need needs cats 100%. Um, so I would just put that out there for everyone listening to to not shy away if you have the time and you have the resources. Again, I don't want to make it sound like it's like oh, you can just adopt one, and then you don't have to do anything. That's not the case, is that you you do need to put some work in, but it's 100% what you put in, you will get back a thousand fold. Yeah. So that's that's the end of my spiel. Um and I I hope everyone has learned something. I've learned many things today, and so I as always am so grateful for you, Dr. Rendon. You you are always the best, and I always love having you on the podcast. And thank you so much for being here. Yes, thank you so much. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review wherever you listen. It super helps. For more information and to support our podcast, check out our website at hissentelpodcast.com. You can also find us on Instagram at Hiss and Tel Podcast. Music provided by Cat Bee.

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Kristiina Wilson

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