Hiss & Tell: Cat Behavior and Beyond

How Stress and Inflammation Shape the Aging Feline Brain with Dr. Federica Pirrone

• Kristiina Wilson • Season 3 • Episode 38

Share episode

Send us a text

Senior cats rarely complain, but their brains may be asking for help. We sit down with ethologist Dr. Federica Pirrone from the University of Milan to unpack new research that ties subtle stress behaviors and low-grade inflammation to measurable changes in feline cognition. Using simple, at-home tests — a spatial memory task and an “unsolvable” problem that tracks gaze alternation — her team found that many older cats display greater social flexibility, a kind of earned wisdom. Yet when age intersects with heightened inflammatory markers like interleukin-1β, that flexibility drops, and cats are less likely to look to their caregiver for information or help.

We explore what inflammaging actually is and how a persistent, low-level inflammatory state can reach the brain, slowing neural signaling, blunting motivation, and making complex social cues harder to process. You’ll hear practical, science-backed ways to support cognition: predictable routines without boredom, short play sessions, gentle food puzzles, three-dimensional spaces with perches and hiding spots, and consistent nutrition that maintains a healthy body condition. We also share why twice-yearly vet visits for seniors are non-negotiable and how to track “that’s different” moments before they snowball.

There’s a hopeful thread through it all: early support can slow decline and extend health span. We talk through a real case where small environmental changes and added food bowls restored confidence and weight in a 14-year-old cat who had started to give up on simple tasks. We also dig into why cats are underrepresented in cognition research, how a supervised, video-based citizen science approach kept cats calm at home, and what longitudinal studies could unlock next.

If this conversation helps you spot one subtle shift sooner, share it with a fellow cat guardian, subscribe for more evidence-based insights, and leave a review to help others find the show.

Kristiina Wilson:

Hey, and welcome to another episode of Hiss and Tell. Today I'm joined by Dr. Federica Pirrone, an ethologist and professor at the University of Milan. Her research is helping to change how we understand aging, cognition, and emotional health in cats. Join us as we dive into her groundbreaking work on how stress and low-grade inflammation affects feline cognition as cats age, why cats are often overlooked in this research, and what subtle behavioral changes we as guardians should be paying attention to long before cognitive dysfunction becomes obvious. Here we go. Hi, and welcome to another episode of Hiss Intel. I am your host, Kristiina

Kristiina Wilson:

Wilson, and with me today is Dr. Federica Pirr one. She is an ethologist and professor at the University of Milan. Welcome. Thank you. Hello, everyone. I'm so excited to be here. We're excited to have you. Can you tell me a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Yes, I am an ethologist, so I study animal behavior, particularly pets, so cats and dogs, but not only those, those species. And I work at the University of Milan and I'm collaborating with a few teams in the US. So the research we will be talking about has been carried out with them, with Professor Carlos Siracusa from the Pandat University. Okay. And his team.

Kristiina Wilson:

Cool. So the the paper that I wanted to talk uh with you about today is called Measures of Spatial Memory, Peripheral Inflammation and Negative Emotional State Predict Social Cognitive Skills and Healthy Aging Cats. For everyone who is listening, that is quite a mouthful, but I will put a link to it on the website page for this episode if people want to download and read it. I recommend it. It's a very interesting study. So can you briefly kind of summarize what led you into researching cognition and stress, inflammation, and aging in cats? Like what gap did you see in the research?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Yes. Um, well, it all started with a simple observation. That is that these factors, cognition, stress, and inflammation, are connected. They are interconnecting during aging in every individual. But most of what we know comes from humans, animal models, like small rodents, and a bit from dogs. We are studying the same thing in dogs as well. But cats have been largely overlooked in this field. So that's not just a gap. The point is that that's a huge black hole in cats' health and well-being as they age. And if you consider that there are about 600 million pet cats in the world, then in the US you have like 100 million. Here in Italy, we have about 10 million. But there they are a lot. If you consider that 20% of these 600 million pet cats are classified as senior, which means that they are at least seven years old. So it's not about one of two cats, it's about millions of pet cats which who deserve much more scientific attention. That's where we started, and that's what the gap, you know, the hole we wanted to feel.

Kristiina Wilson:

Of course. And I one statistic that I noted from the paper itself was that 28% of cats who are between 11 and 14 exhibit cognitive dysfunction, which I mean, that's a huge, that's a huge amount. And I think to most pet owners, that doesn't even seem like a super old cat. Um, so I think that's an important number for people to realize. Can you talk a little bit about what that cognitive dysfunction might look like?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Yes, cognitive dysfunction might look like changes. Changes in how they the cat behave. These changes can be very subtle at the beginning. So you don't really talk about dysfunction when you know when when you when only small changes appear. That's normal aging, okay? Right. Everything reduces in an organism that ages. So everything, all the functions, all the organs, everything shrinks. So cognition as well. Little um, you know, moments of disorientation. The cat looks like gives up a little bit earlier than before, sleep differently. Maybe the cat sleeps less or even more. The cat may appear a little bit less motivated than before. It's all like a matter of change. This is what you can expect from your um your aging cat who is slowly declining in their cognitive function. When all of these signs become intense or more frequent and start affecting that cat's quality of life and ability to adapt to the environment, the usual environment, the home environment, that is the point you can start thinking there's a those changes turn into a dysfunction. But there's time before that to, you know, to happen. So there's time to intervene. Got it. Yeah. But there's a secret. What's the secret? The secret is to detect those signs when they are though so slight, you know, and that's not easy. If you you know cats, I know you know cats probably better than me. No. And uh probably all the people who will, you know, who will watch us know cats. So all of you, all of us, know that cats don't display that much. Right. So it's not subtle. And that's the real difference between cats and other species because the mechanisms are the same, the biological mechanisms of aging are the same. Yeah, yeah. But cats are different because they don't display. So it's not, it's even more difficult with cats than with other species to detect those changes when they had just begun. When the slight it's that's very true.

Kristiina Wilson:

I I remember watching our cat pumpkin, who lived to be 22, which was amazing. But the last few years of her life, she had dementia. But it did start in those ways, which I think for 22 is okay, and she didn't seem distressed, but she definitely changed where she slept at first, you know, very subtle things, how much she would eat, where she wanted to eat. There was more vocalization. She had always been chatty, but it went up. And then she also started to stare at herself in the mirror. Yeah. This was a big, a big thing when it when it really kicked in. And she would look at herself just like, Who's this lady? I think she could, she was no longer sure exactly what her reflection was, but it was because it didn't seem to disturb her, it was almost a little funny to watch her, she'd give herself this grumpy look. But it it was an interesting process, you know, as sad as it was, but she also lived a long, great life to see those tiny changes and then to see them really escalate, like funnel out into these big dramatic things that then anyone could see. But they did start from just these tiny little things where you'd be like, huh, that's different. And and I always tell clients, anytime you have those moments where you're like, huh, that's different with a cat, it's actionable because it's generally something strange is going on with your cat if they're changing their behavior because they're such routine-based animals. So, anyway, going away from the tangent that I just went on, um, in your study, you used privately owned cats in their home environment to look at spatial memory and social cognition and stress behaviors and inflammatory markers. Can you tell us a little bit about that study and what the key findings were that you would like our listeners to know about?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Uh, I think that listeners should know, should remember that aging, aging comes with more social flexibility. This is something we have already seen in dogs, and now we've seen in cats as well. But this is true if they're healthy, as in our case. In fact, in our study, uh, older cats showed better social cognition performance, which is probably related to a kind of wisdom, you know, older animals, older people, older dogs and cats are wiser than younger, yes, younger ones, probably because they could learn from past experiences. You know, even with their caregivers. In our study, maybe we will talk about that a little more in detail. It's tested with the caregiver present, by the caregiver, actually. So the social cognition was measured toward their caregiver. Another thing we, very important thing that we observed is that an inflammatory, a pro-inflammatory marker like interliquin 1 bita, which is the one we measured, itself didn't show any negative effect on social cognition. So it's not a matter of old age and inflammation individually. It is when you look at the interaction between these two factors together, older age and higher interlique 1 beta levels, then social flexibility, social cognition decreased. In other words, older cats in our study who, but in I I I could say so cats who are older, okay, and are also more inflamed, show less social flexibility. When social flexibility would be the successful strategy, which was the case in our study. Right. They were involved in a task in which they had to use a social cogn cognitive, social cognition, social, what we call referential communication, you know, to solve a problem. And that's what we measured. And the older ones who had higher levels of inflammatory one or pro-inflammatory markers were the ones to perform worse in that in that task. And even when they were stressed, a similar similar pattern was observed with stress behaviors. Overall, our cuts were not stressed, but those showing more stressed behaviors were also more likely to perform worse in social cognition. And this is something that the caregiver should really keep in mind. What I forgot to mention before when I said, and that was important to say, when I um when I when I talked about the interaction that we measured, you know, the effect on social on deteriorating social cognition of the interaction between the old age and inflammation. Okay, that told us that we were in the context of what we call inflammation.

Kristiina Wilson:

So what can you explain a little bit more about what inflammation means, what it means in the feline context and how it links to behavior and cognition?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Yeah, of course. Inflammation uh inflammation is a process uh which is basically very similar from a biological point of view, in physiological point of view in cats, dogs, and other species. The term tells us that it's there are two key concepts put together: inflammation and aging. Okay, that's the term inflammation. It means that at the individual level, chronic low-grade unresolving inflammation develops even when there is no evident disease. And um we're not talking about peaks of inflammatory markers or organs that are strongly inflamed. It's more like a sl a low-level persistence state, something subtle that reaches the brain. It can reach the brain directly because some of these markers, like interlique 1 beta, cross the body, the blood brain barrier, so they can reach the brain and affect it directly, or through in an indirect way, through special mechanism of signaling. So once inflammation reaches the brain, we talk about neuroinflammation, and this is how, and this is when it can affect behavioral recognition, leading, for example, to slower memory or a lower motivation. Even in an aging cat who is apparently healthy.

Kristiina Wilson:

Right. Okay. So in the paper in your experiment, you had cat owners use a food-bated container in this spatial memory task, and then also an un in also the unsolvable task to look at the social cognition and the gaze alternation. Can you kind of describe what the cat's responses tell us? Yes, of course.

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

We use a food-bated container in both other tasks. We tested special memory. In this task, the cat was required to remember uh when in which container out of five he've just seen put uh like 30 30 seconds before. Because the cat the cat see the uh the caregiver putting food in one of five containers, then we repeat the trial for five times, and then hold the cat, turns, turns around so the cat cannot look at the setting. And for 30 seconds, so because we want the cat being able to recall, okay. Right. Then the cat is let free. And if the cat goes straight to the container, to the right container, the one you have seen being baited, that is a correct answer. And so that tells us that the cat remembered exactly where the the food was placed. Um as for the um unsolvable task, as for the social cognition, we use what we call unsolvable task. Again, we have a container baited with food, but in this case, the container is sealed, so we know that the cat cannot open the box, the container. So, what we what we at is the behavior of the cat who is expected to try to solve it. And then once the cat understands that the problem is not solvable uh on the on the, we expect the cat to try to look around, you know, to go outside with his with the attention and interest outside of the book the box and looking look around and look at the caregiver, that's social cognition, but not just look at the caregiver. What we expect is to see the cat turn toward the caregiver, staring at the caregiver, then looking back at the object, then at the caregiver again, then at the object, alternating the gaze, okay, which tells us that um the cat is um trying to seek useful information, at least, maybe even help, okay, from the caregiver. That that's that would be the the only successful strategy in that case. So cats who stop being persistent over the object before, uh earlier, are those that are more flexible in their thinking, which is in their cognition.

Kristiina Wilson:

Okay, so you found a higher serum of the pro-inflammatory marker was associated with a reduced gaze alternation, especially in those older cats. So why might inflammation impair that kind of cognitive social behavior?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Because, as I said before, it affects the brain and neural communication, which become basically less efficient. So animals may be less motivated, less able to process complex complex cues. And as a result of inflammation, an undercut might simply start to find it harder to read social situations or switch strategies when facing a challenge where those strategies would be the most successful.

Kristiina Wilson:

Right. That makes sense. And you also noted in the paper that stress-related behaviors predicted poor social cognitive performance. What kind of behaviors did you classify as stress behaviors in the study? How might cat owners recognize stress behaviors in their cats?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Okay. Yes, we we considered subtle signs which might indicate stress, like uh nose leaking, yawning, eye closure, blinking, painting, vocalizing a lot, of course, yeah. Um, and all frequently in a repetitive way. Head or body shaking, these were maybe something more, but these were the ones I remember the most significant. Right. What I want you to know to consider is that these are all normal behaviors, okay? But I mean, if if you see a a cat not sleeking, that's fine, okay? But when when a cat starts showing them more frequently or more intensely, or for longer periods of time, that can indicate that they are a bit overloaded, emotionally overloaded. They are experiencing a state of tension or frustration, maybe. So, how can caregivers recognize them? Well, I should say simply by keeping an eye on their cat. So the key, the key message is that if a cat is getting older, and so the cat is seven years and or older, okay, and starts hiding more or showing these subtle signs more often or more intensely or for longer periods, it may mean that the cat is emotionally overloaded and their cognitive performance could be affected as well. So, what does this look like in everyday life? Well, the cat may seem, probably I said that before already, the cat may seem to give up more easily than before, appear slightly disoriented at times, or show reduced motivation. And that's really a sign, signal that it's time to better support that aging cat. And how would owners better support the aging cat? Well, uh, for example, keeping their environment predictable, not stimulating, okay, because boredom is not good. Yes.

Kristiina Wilson:

Okay. Yeah, I think for all of us, we should all take that lesson. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

It's the same. It's the same. So we don't have to overstimulate a cat getting you know frail, but uh offering some, you know, play opportunities, maybe for short periods of time, some easy problem solving like food puzzles or things like that. Uh, but also keeping the daily routines and uh providing safe hiding spots. This is this is um very important because it can help reduce stress. And we've seen that stress can you know impact on cognitive function in an aging cat. Yeah. Then they should probably they should um uh consider diet. Diet can also play a role. Maintaining a healthy weight and uh providing balanced nutrition can help counter counteract inflammation, for example. But also cognition. You've seen, I don't know if you know that. I'm spoiling it, spoiling it, linking it. Probably maybe if you want, we can we can meet another time because another paper, the second part of this study just came out. Just one second, because the title is long again. Okay. I don't remember, but just to just to let you know, so that uh the the title is variations in body condition score, inflammatory and metabolic biomarkers predict cognitive changes in clinically healthy senior cats, which is the second part. So body condition score is a very, very came out as a very important factor, you know, in modulating all these cognitive aspects in the Magic cat. And um, of course, another thing that gardeners should do is make be sure that senor cats get regular vet visits, even if they seem fine. That's the that's the point.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, it's it's funny. One of my best friends is an amazing vet. We love her so much, she's the best vet I've ever met. And one of her the hardest things that she talks about is getting people who have cats to bring them in. Like she says that dog people bring their dogs in, but cat people are just like the cat seems fine, so they she often doesn't see the cats until there's a problem with the cats. And especially people with senior cats don't understand that senior cats need to come in at least twice a year, not just important. Yeah, that's important. Yeah, so I want to just put that out to everyone listening. If you have a senior cat, try to get your cat in there twice a year. I know that often cats don't want to go, but you can carrier train them, you can, you know, make it so that they maybe not enjoy the vet, but it's not like a torturous process. We have a lot of older cats in the house, so I'm just like yeah.

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

I I have two cats and they're all the the two of them are old, so how old are they? 10 and probably probably 14 or 15. Yeah. Because the uh dentone, Big Tooth, was uh was a rescue cat, so we don't really know, yeah. But it could be like 14, 13, 14, something like that.

Kristiina Wilson:

So one of the implications from the study was that even in cats that are healthy by VET standards, was that you're seeing early cognitive shifts that are linked to inflammation and stress. So, how can we interpret that in practical terms? Is there something that people should be doing?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Yes, the point is that cognitive changes are among the earliest changes to develop with age. And at first, they tend to be subtle and may not interfere with a cat's ability to adapt or with the cat's overall quality of life. That said, as with all age-related processes, even cognitive changes are expected to progress and can eventually become dysfunctional. So the evidence that stress and inflammation can negatively influence this process, essentially fueling it, means that in practical terms, we should do everything possible to reduce stress and inflammatory load in aging cats, even when they are considered clinically healthy. We know that these changes progress, okay, because because that that that that's the normal part of aging. It's a progression. But so they're not stoppable. Okay, these changes are not, but they can be slowed down. If we support the cat when changes are very subtle, when they are at right at the beginning, we can we can slow them down. So the cat will have a longer um health span, okay? Which is a longer life with a happy quality of life, which is the goal. Absolutely.

Kristiina Wilson:

So I know we already kind of talked about a little bit about this, but are there environmental or behavioral or nutritional interventions that we could take that would help mitigate the stress and inflammation that the cats are having? Is there anything that you suggest that cat owners can do to help their cats?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

First, keep them engaged, play, explore possibility, opportunities to explore, to interact daily if they like interacting with our cats or animals or people, because you know, not all cats like that. But if they like it, just and if they don't like it, provide them places, rooms to stay, you know, separate from other from other um individuals. Um second, reduce stress, avoid uh big changes in routine or environment. That could be very important, and provide um hiding spots, uh making sure that the cat knows that they can be safe where they are, okay? And finally, stay observant. That's very important. Noticing subtle behavioral changes early can help the vet support your cat the cat before problems grow.

Kristiina Wilson:

That makes sense. Are there any red flags that because I know we talked about also this is often subtle. Like what red flag should guardians watch for from a behavioral change perspective? You know, even if their cat seems physically fine.

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Yeah. You said it. Watch for changes, watch for changes, changes in sleep patterns, confusion, size of a confusion, vocalizing at night, uh, excessively at least becoming weak drawer, starting, you know, um eliminating outside the leaderbox, which could simply be a sign of, you know, uh confusion or disorientation or hesitation to jump or explore. Uh if the cat suddenly seems different, less social, less curious, it is worth uh talking to the vet. Because these small sheets can be early signs of cognitive aging, which once again we can support for.

Kristiina Wilson:

Right. Looking kind of ahead, is there research that you think would be the most urgent for cat cognition and aging and stress and inflammation? Or is there anything that you're planning to do in addition?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Well, I think that longitudinal studies would be definitely welcome. Yeah. Yes, because uh, for example, what we did was to find associations between factors so we can predict that that is what is likely to happen. But we can't say that one thing causes the other, you know, and casual relationship would be very precious, valuable, valuable, and uh to better understand it and to better support the animal then. Also to have the opportunity to follow, you know, to follow that single individual, you know, to see exactly how that individual is aging, that would be the you know, the gold standard. And so we that only a longitudinal studies can can do that. Only true longitudinal studies you can achieve these uh these results. So this is, I think this should be the what what is expected to what we should do in the in the future. It's not easy, it's not easy, but we have to.

Kristiina Wilson:

How might these findings apply to like rescue and foster cats? Because most of them have experienced like so much stress early in their life and like varying environments. Is there extra care that they should be given? Is it just like a waiting for them to settle into a new home? Is there anything special that applies to them?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Yes, uh, that's a great question. First, because I only have rescue cats and dogs.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, actually.

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

So that's a great question, but also because it's very it's very important. Yes, you're right. Early life stress can affect the brain and the immune system in the long term. We know that science has demonstrated that very well. So these cats might be more vulnerable, basically, as adults, which means that they will be even more frail as seniors.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

So for them, I think stability is the key. And enriching that predictable environment built around calm, simple routines, gentle handling, the right tools to stimulate them, both mentally and physically across all age stages. You know, it's something you had to build as they grow, if you can, if if you had that opportunity, you know. And then because you live with them, maybe not not since the since when they were born, but you know, but maybe you've been living with that cat since the cat was, I don't know, two, three, four. So you have to start supporting them in that sense. So they will become less frail, um, as as a senior or super senior, as I call them. Super senior is um should be a cat like older than 15 years old.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah.

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

And things like three-dimensional spaces where they can, you know, that that can allow the allow the cat to use the space in the three dimensions, uh it enlarges the space, you know, that's the point. So there's much more space if they have the possibility to stay to use it in the three-dimensional ways. Scratching spots, hiding places, uh unforced social interactions can really help buffer stress and support cognitives' health across all stages of life, particularly in these vulnerable um cats.

Kristiina Wilson:

So, you and your colleagues also published on inflammation and behavior changes in dogs and cats on a different paper that was called inflammation and behavior changes in dogs and cats. So, how do the mechanisms that you see in cats compare to dogs and any other species you may have worked with?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Yes, I probably mentioned that before. The biological mechanisms are pretty the same, pretty similar. Okay, so in dogs, uh, aging brings immune dregulation, which is what we call immunosinescence. What does that mean? It means that the immune system becomes less balanced, um, a lot more pro-inflammatory cytokines, and fewer anti-inflammatory cytokines um starts to be produced. But the that's similar. The very important point is that crucial point is that cats are a bit different in that they tend more to show very I mean they they they're not demonstrative. They they tend not to show off. Okay, even normal behavior, even when they're fine, particularly where they have when they are experiencing some form of discomfort or pain. So in this picture, information-related changes may go unnoticed longer. That's why studying inflammation in cats and educating um people, caregivers and pets about the results of this research is very important because it helps catch those silent early shits. Right. Identify them first and then catch them. So, how do you envision like a veterinary practice changing around senior cognition and stress and inflammation once they read your paper, once they understand the final I yeah, I envision a veterinary practice that is practice that is more focused on aging and age-related changes, even when routine checkups uh fall within normal reference ranges. Uh, more frequent and targeted follow-ups combining physical and behavioral evaluations could help monitor the parameters. Even routine parameters, we were talking about that before, not necessarily you know, strange cytokines. It may be parameters normal, I mean common parameters that may be slowly changing over time. This would allow cle allow clinicians to identify emerging inflammation-related patterns earlier and try to counter them or prevent them from developing.

Kristiina Wilson:

So if you could give one or two take-home tips to our listeners or cat guardians based on your research to support their older cat's cognition and well-being, what would they be?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Yes, they would be to um keep the cat um unstressed and but engaged and um and to stay observant, to keep an eye on that cat and um and be sure, make sure that the aging cat get regular visits, ternary visits, you know?

Kristiina Wilson:

What age do you think people should really start like looking at their cats?

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Seven years old. Okay. Yeah.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah. So from seven on, should really yeah. That makes that makes sense. Is there a story from your research that illustrates how early detection or intervention made a difference in a cat's life? Yes.

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

I have it. Okay. I remember, I remember one senior cat. She was like uh a 10-year-old girl. We would call her um Mina. That's not her real name, but for privacy reasons, I had to, you know, I had to change it as well. So Mina, uh, she used to she used to ask for um help to open a cup or where the the caregiver used to keep her treats. Very recently, right around the time she was enrolled in our study, she has stopped doing that. And um, we knew that because we were asking to the to the caregiver. And but she was technically healthy, that's why she was enrolled in our study because cats had to be healthy by, you know, according to standard, uh, veterinary standards for their age. And so she was technically healthy based on her age reference values and showed no apparent clinical signs of disease, just a slight recent weight loss that then came up only when the caregiver was directly asked about it. So her caregiver thought, as usually happens, she's just old. But it turned out to be early cognitive science, early cognitive change. She had what what happened was that she had probably started to experience moments of confusion and disorientation, which made her give up more easily in front of a simple problem, like a closed cut board. Yeah. And sometimes she even forgot her footballs, where the football was. That's another very common thing. Yeah. Which which explained the slight weight loss. She kept eating less because she started forgetting where the football was. And that's another way to support the old the aging cat, adding footballs around the house. Yeah. So if I forget what my football is, there's another one around. I will find it. So with just a few small changes, like uh sunlight but regular mental stimulation and a few extra footballs placed around the house, she started showing confidence again. She gained weight, and according to the caregiver at least, she seemed more interested in the world. And that's what early detection can do. It brings back what really matters that is a life filled with curiosity and positive emotions.

Kristiina Wilson:

That's great. I love that story. I mean, I don't love that she's in early, you know, cognitive decline, but I love that it was somewhat.

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

That was a kind of change.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah.

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

But uh being supported when that was just a change and not a real dysfunction, right? We were able to, you know, um set it, to set it, to fix it. How old was she? Do you remember? Yes, she was like 14 years old.

Kristiina Wilson:

Oh, okay.

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Yeah. Yeah. But she was fine. And that's not enrollment in our study was difficult because it's not easy to find healthy cats who are, I mean, old cats who are also totally healthy. Okay, but she was. Yeah.

Kristiina Wilson:

That's so cool. Well, if you ever need more healthy cats who are old, you just let me know because we've got a lot of cars. I would call you, I mean, give you a card.

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

Be sure, sure. Especially because you have 14. You said you have 14. Yeah.

Kristiina Wilson:

And that's a good sample. It is, it's a I know. I've during COVID, I did so many studies just in my house because I was so bored and I couldn't get into my lab. And so I was like, oh, let's do a study with this, let's do a study with that.

Dr. Federica Pirrone:

And that's that makes me think that there's another thing that I can that I can tell before we say goodbye. That is the approach we used. We used a synchronous citizen science-based approach, which means that our cats were all tested at their home. That's great. By their caregiver. But that caregiver was not let alone in doing that. We were there. We were there supervising the testing, guiding the caregiver, and being sure, making sure that the cat was not getting stressed. That could be a possibility also a possibility. And through a simple video call like the one we are having now. And that came into our mind because starting with the COVID limitations, but then we thought, okay, uh, cats are very difficult to move. Transportation is is very stressful for cats. Yeah. And that's why studying cats is not easy. If you have to take them to the lab, but if they are at home, that makes things much easier for them. So just a couple of them, we have to exclude them from the study because uh they get stressed. Sure. We could see it, so we stop, we stopped the study, we stopped the testing uh as soon as we we got it. We tried another one another time, like we made another attempt like a couple of weeks uh later just to see if it was that time, that day. Uh, but it wasn't. And so we had to say this this this cats just doesn't like it since it's not mandatory. We will not we didn't we would not involve it, we will not involve them. And but apart from these two these couple of cats, they were all fine. Our cats were not stressed. We we have to put all the stress behaviors we considered together to measure them because they were very, very, very, very few.

Kristiina Wilson:

Sure. In the home, yeah, you you'd have to weigh them together. That makes sense. Well, thank you so much. This was such an interesting, cool discussion, and I'm really excited to read your new paper and then hopefully be able to talk to you again. This was so great. I really enjoyed speaking with you. Ah, it's the same for me. I hope to meet you again very soon. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review wherever you listen. It super helps. For more information and to support our podcast, check out our website at hissantelpodcast.com. You can also find us on Instagram at Hiss and Tel Podcast. Music provided by Cat Beats.

Head Shot

Kristiina Wilson

Host