A conversation with street portraitist Payman.

In the fifth edition of Meet the Streets, a podcast dedicated to street photography, Keith interviews Payman Hazheer, a renowned street photographer based in Stockholm, Sweden. Payman shares insights into his journey from Iran to Sweden, his exploration of journalism in Washington, D.C., and how he developed his passion for street photography. The conversation delves into his transition from digital to film photography, the challenges and rewards of the medium, and the stories behind some of his most compelling portraits. Highlighting the power of authentic street interactions and the technical nuances of his craft, this episode offers inspiration and valuable tips for aspiring street photographers.
00:00 Welcome to Meet the Streets: Featuring Payman Hazheer
01:15 Payman's Journey: From Iran to Street Photography
03:44 The Shift to Film Photography: A Deep Dive
20:09 Exploring the Art of Street Portraits
20:18 Capturing Emotion and Stories Through the Lens
31:10 Unlocking the Power of a Fixed Lens: A Photographic Journey
33:09 A Clown's Morning in Istanbul: Capturing Unseen Moments
34:07 Exploring Istanbul: A City of Contrasts and Photography
35:21 The Serendipity of Street Photography: From Izmir to Stockholm
38:26 The Art of Film Photography: Embracing Imperfections
39:36 Mastering Manual Focus: A Deep Dive into Photographic Technique
48:54 The Charm of Rangefinder Cameras: A Personal Love Story
52:22 LFI: A Platform for Photographic Excellence

Thank you for listening! If you want to see the video, go to my youtube channel street photography mentor.
To see my street photography you can go to my instagram @keithmpitts or go to my website keithpitts.com. There you can also get info and sign up for my street photography workshops in Paris.

Transcript

Keith: 0:02

Welcome to the rainy fifth edition of Meet the Streets, a podcast about street photography for street photographers and by a street photographer. In today's episode, we're gonna meet Payman Hazheer, an amazing street photographer based out of Sweden. Come back each week and meet another street photographer from somewhere else in the world. And now, Payman. So for those that don't know, This is Payman Hazheer, uh, an amazing photographer who, uh, if you don't know him, you really need to change that. Uh, Payman, uh, great to meet you and can you just introduce yourself?

Payman: 0:34

Yeah. Nice to meet you. And thanks for inviting me. Um, my name is Payman. I am a photographer based out of Stockholm, Sweden, not Swiss Switzerland. A lot of people mix that up. It's Sweden. It's very important to us. Um, yeah, so I'm, I'm here and, um, It's nice to be invited to talk about photography.

Keith: 0:54

Wow, this is cool. So, again, what I didn't know, actually there's a lot I don't know, because we're just meeting. I've been following you for a while and, uh, I get very happy I am. But you were saying earlier, uh, when we weren't recording, that you had, uh, that you had lived in D. C. That you were studying journalism. So can you tell me about that?

Payman: 1:15

Yeah, so basically, um, I was, my family moved from Iran, um, to Sweden, and they moved far up in the north part of Sweden, in a small village, about 3, 000 people, um, very dark, very cold place. So, um, I decided to, um, just want to, you know, move around and explore the world. So I, uh, Off to Washington, D. C. in the U. S., um, studying journalism and marketing for a couple of years. Um, that's basically where I also started taking, um, pictures of people in the streets, maybe. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Coming from a small city to Washington, D. C. was quite a big experience. Yeah,

Keith: 1:59

I can imagine. Yeah, when we went to D. C. a few times, uh, Uh, yeah, I think once I was covering, um, uh, kind of a political thing once was to watch as a Rangers fan. It was back in 1994 and I got to. Go to, uh, was it the Rangers are playing the Capitals? They, uh, the cat, the Rangers beat them in five games. The only game they lost is the one that I traveled to DC for.

Payman: 2:27

Was that a good thing or bad?

Keith: 2:30

Yeah, from that point, that wasn't even photography. That was strictly as a, uh, as a fan. And it was, it was awful. And I, and it was so quick, I didn't even get a chance to explore how, again, the thing I, to this day, I still really haven't seen a DC from a, from like a point of view of actually appreciating it. That's again, it's interesting to photograph, uh, again, uh, Political events and whatnot, but it's just from a tourist standpoint, it's, it's an impressive place.

Payman: 3:04

It is. And I think, uh, during my year, it was Bush was inaugurated for the second time, so it was massive protests. So, um, that kind of, uh, the whole Washington DC kind of sparked my journalistic approach to photography.

Keith: 3:21

That's cool. Yeah. At that time, at that time, I wasn't doing too much street photography. I was, uh, I was mostly again, just trying to make money again in photography. I've been doing this professionally for a long time, but I hadn't really gotten to the point where I was, uh, again, doing my civic duty.

Payman: 3:39

Yeah.

Keith: 3:41

That came along later, but, uh, that's cool. So what, uh, yes, you, you got into photography down in DC. What about, uh, did you start off with digital? Cause I know that right now you're, uh, you're, uh, you're not dabbling and you're, you're, you're shooting film as well as digital, but were you, did you start with digital? Did you start with film? I

Payman: 4:01

actually, I'm actually last week I sold my last digital camera. So I'm doing it. now, but I came into, I'm, I'm 46 years old, um, in 2024. Um, but I started photography when I was around 22, 23 years old. And by then my first camera was a digital camera. So I never experienced a film film era. So, um, yeah, you could say that I'm quite late into it.

Keith: 4:34

But again, that was, uh, so you're still 20 years in. So the, uh, so the, uh, yeah. So when did you start recently? I see it's fairly recent. You've been doing, you're doing, I'm looking at what you're doing. You've done some, uh, some impressive work with it.

Payman: 4:49

Thanks. No, I mean, this is that, um, it's been quite a long journey, but. around thinking about film, but I came to realize a couple of things. So one was that whenever I search for inspiration, I tend to go back to old photo books, Peter Lindbergh, Richard Sandler, Eddie Van Vessels, photographer, and they were all pictures taken with analog film cameras, mostly triads. So I always was searching. I never went to. Search for inspiration with photographers that digital. So I was like, why am I doing digital when, where I'm seeking inspiration from film and trying to replicate that into digital media. So that was one of the reasons. And secondly was the fact that when I. Look at my entire catalog of body of work in for the 20 years. Um, I'm not hap I wasn't happy with the consistency of, of, uh, of the photographs because whenever you change a camera on gear, um, the rendering tend to change as well. So if I should start with Fuji and I go to queue like a Q2 and then a M camera, then M 1110. So I wasn't happy with the consistency of, of how the, how my body of work looked. So, and we try X or film, you know, doesn't really matter that much from a visual point of view, what we should be, as long as it's the same film stock. So me, it was like, if I go over to film, I can be much more consistent, um, moving forward in my body of work, regardless what camera I use or not. And, um, third reason was, or is probably because, um, when you're shooting with, with digital, you tend to, I didn't learn photography as much as I doing with film. And I don't know, it's a cliche that everybody says, but to me, it means that. Um, shooting with digital, you kind of are, you take the picture and you look and then you adjust, you can adjust the exposure up, so you don't really, really focus as much, come, I became quite sloppy, uh, around composition, about light, because I just adjusted, uh, my mistakes there and then. But with film, you, those mistakes hurt so bad because you go out and take a picture and think it's good to come back. Um, you missed the exposure or the composition or whatever. And those mistakes tend to stick. So next time I'm going up, I kind of add that mistake into my knowledge bank of, okay, now I'm taking this picture. You know, that was the mistake that I'm, I'm not, I don't want to do it again. So I take much fewer photos, but to me, those photos are much more. Meaningful and better, and I'm much more focused when I want to take pictures with analog. I think that that's kind of the reason why I'm now 100 percent film shooter.

Keith: 7:59

That's cool. Yeah. Again, I agree with 100%. And coming back from the other direction, I started off, again, you're 46, you're a young man to me. So, so I got, I got you by 10. Yeah, I got you by 10 years. So, uh, no, I'm 50, 56. So, uh, I started off shooting, I can digital was, uh, digital was, it was in the future. And so it just seemed like, uh, almost the impossible dream. I kind of remember the, uh, the first known digital camera that anybody talked about was this, uh, Kodak based on a Nikon body with like one megapixel. It costs like 30, 000.

Payman: 8:36

Yeah. And

Keith: 8:37

like, why would you do that? So, and, uh, yeah, so we kept on doing film. Then eventually it was a digital came on and it became the thing. And, uh, so I always found myself shooting, uh, shooting fewer, fewer shots than most of my contemporaries who had started off with digital, because I was trained to, every time I pressed that shutter, it cost me money and if I, and if I run out of it, We're done. So it just never, never do that. But, and I did find it was once I really got, uh, the handle of digital that, yeah, I, I did get a bit sloppier. It can, cause you're like, okay, I can take a dozen to every one I would take with, uh, with film. And so, yeah, so when I, when the, it's rare nowadays that I go back to film. I think that's largely because it's just so God awful expensive these days. But when I do go back, I still find that I shoot less. My, I think my hit rate is more per frame per roll. I'll get more shots that I like than walking around with a digital camera. And, uh, it's, it's weird, strange, but yeah, I think like you're saying, it's just a matter of, uh, uh, Not to, uh, not to be cliche or not, no, no pun intended, but you focus harder. And it

Payman: 10:08

seems like, I mean, coming from analog, you have, that's where you started and that's how you got your training into thinking visually. But for me, you came from digital. I started off by just, you know, just run and shoot everything and all the time, which, which is good in one way from the beginning, because you, I guess you're more open because it doesn't cost you to shoot. But I find it much more, um, much more, uh,

Keith: 10:35

Yeah, I think what's cool about digital is that it opened up, it opened up photography to so many more people that might've been hesitant to get in because of the, the, again, how scary sometimes it is, you know, Hey, I have no idea what's on, if anything is actually recorded here. And for some reason, yeah, it seems like once digital came around, suddenly like bam, like out of the blue, you're, you're seeing beautiful work across the board from people that would never even probably bought a camera. Yeah, exactly. There's a, there's

Payman: 11:08

a, there's a place for the two medium, I think. I think there's no like one is better than the other. It's just like whatever rocks your boat and helps you getting motivated and inspired. It can be digital, it can be fail more, or AI for that matter, if that's, if you, that stuff

Keith: 11:25

there. There's a, a topic, uh, as far as ai I, and, and not saying like AI with, so you go into Photoshop and you wanna clean up your image. It's just ai. I've got no problem. Personally, I have no problem with a lot of AI tools, but I, I have, I will say that I have an a. Uh, hesitation to call something that was created from scratch, uh, as an image, as beautiful as the image may be to call it a photograph, because I, again, technically by the, by the term photograph, again, you want to break it down to his Latin roots. There's no photo in there.

Payman: 12:05

Yeah,

Keith: 12:06

exactly. So it can't be, it can be, it can be beautiful and it's an entirely different art form, which I have all ultimate respect for people that can create anything beautiful from anything.

Payman: 12:17

Yeah,

Keith: 12:17

but, but let's not call it a photograph. Let's call it and then, but not to be, not to be what's called a mistaken for you going to Photoshop and I want, let's go, uh, like whatever. And you use some AI knowledge to make that a little bit better, but we're, we're only brightening. We're color, we're color correcting or something like that. More power to you. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Payman: 12:41

No, I think there's, uh, I think it's just a totally new medium, and for me, it's more or less, you know, a visual artist or, uh, what do you call it, like, uh, Yeah, I created. So basically rendering visually, just the way people create ads or whatever, it's just that you can make it look like a, like a image or, um, you know, analog photo for that case, but it doesn't mean that it is. So, yeah, I'm, I think that's just kind of, uh, Another reason for me being just photographing analog is or over the film is just like it is film. It is what it is. It's tangible. I don't have to think about, uh, what that means in the new era of, uh, AI tools and so on. So it's quite refreshing actually. You can just keep it simple, as simple as, as I can.

Keith: 13:33

I love that. So are you currently a full time professional photographer, or is this kind of like, you know, just passion?

Payman: 13:40

Yeah. So it's my passion. Um, I run a business, a creative agency based out of Stockholm, done that for a long time. And at early, early, just right after I was graduating in DC, I kind of in, um, In between. Okay. Should I become a photographer? And then I want to become a war photographer. Is that the path that I want to go? Or do I want to move into like business and marketing and running my own business in the future? And I chose it later on. And it's quite, it's quite, um, when the backstory of it, it's, it's a little bit complicated, but I tried to, to bring it up in a easy way. And the thing is that. And we came into Sweden as immigrants and my family when I was eight because of the war between Iran and Iraq. So and by that time, um, there were not that many immigrants with dark skin in Sweden. So you were very quickly put into a category of or a box of You're an immigrant and with that comes a lot of, uh, negative attributes, um, per default. So I think my mindset and my entire family's mindset was like, I want to get out of that box of being an immigrant in, uh, with dark skin in Sweden with people with light skin. Um, so I chose the path of, okay, I want to get into the business. So I can prove to myself and to the society around me that, you know, I can be successful. And the only way to get out of that box was to basically trying to accomplish the same standard or higher standard than the Swedes around me. So, um, kind of the reason why, why, I went that that path, but also, I really thought about what would happen with my photography as passion if I, if it becomes a profession, I don't become this super famous war photographer. What's the, like, what's, what's the option? And I was like, ah, Let's just keep it as a passion that might change the, the path, uh, as I go. But as for today, I'm, I do just purely passion work. I do some projects where I, where I feel like it's a good fit, um, but I don't want to end up in a place where I have to shoot, I know cars or fruits or burgers to make a living because that would just kill my biggest passion in life.

Keith: 16:18

Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine. The, uh, the whole conflict photographer thing is, uh, is interesting. It didn't even dawn on me when I first started out. I was in the military. Uh, yeah, I, I wish I had taken a photography then, but it was just, it wasn't even a consideration of it. It was not even in my head. I thought I was gonna be a doctor, but the, uh, yeah, cause I was a medicine, I was a corpsman in the, on the Navy. So yeah. So they didn't give us guns, they gave us a bags with bandages and drugs and a target on her head.

Payman: 16:50

Oh yeah, exactly. I mean, that, that would have been, you would have a very nice, uh, Headstart, if you just had a camera and be the military,

Keith: 16:59

I mean, but you get the

Payman: 17:00

experience and all of it. So, yeah.

Keith: 17:02

Well, yeah. So after that, I wasn't even thinking when I got into, because it was, I was kind of late to photography. But then it was all pretty much selfish ideas and wanting to be, again, wanting to be famous and all that kind of stuff. So the money was pretty good. And it's the, uh, again, I didn't become famous and I, but it's, uh, it was what it was. And then later on, of course, I got altruistic and, uh, and then I think, wow, maybe I can be a conflict photographer. So the more I checked into it, the, I'm not sure that that's, it's a rare breed. That can, uh, I got more and so much respect goes out to anybody that can, uh, accomplish that and just not this, the mere act of staying alive is good enough, but the, uh, but knowing what they go through and the, the mental scars that you have to carry with you by seeing what humanity is capable of doing and recording it is insane. So

Payman: 17:58

it is, I actually have a, uh, is a conflict photographer that's covered more or less all the conflicts in the past 20 years. He's become a good friend of mine. Um, so I meet him whenever he's visiting Ukraine a lot. Um, it's just 800 kilometers from Sweden. So, but I can see when he comes back and I can see his eyes that, all right, there's a lot of stress. Um, because he is basically going directly to the front where the bomb being. So then that gives you some perspective.

Keith: 18:34

Yeah, you know, you know, I can't, again, the world needs that. And, uh, I have so much respect for it. And yeah, but I can say that even every now and then I had that pang of guilt that I didn't get out there and do it. And then luckily it's just a periodic one. And the rest of the time is going, thank God. Because again, I've got my, yeah, I don't, I don't even know where to bring this. It's just that. I'm not, I didn't do it. I'm happy people can do it. And, uh, I guess I'll leave it there.

Payman: 19:05

Yeah, exactly.

Keith: 19:06

And again, I'm sure you're asleep at night and you're, uh, eating. Yeah.

Payman: 19:13

Sleep at night. And, um, yeah, I mean, it's probably more important than ever that people do it. So I just, I met him and I was like, Oh, can I come to, can I follow you to some of the conflicts areas? And he was like, you don't have to do it, but that's his, you know, professional to just to do that as a living. It's like, you don't have to do it. You can. You should just do what you do, go out, take beautiful portraits of beautiful people around you. You don't need to go to a war zone to do that. So that kind of got me thinking that, you know, it's probably good to just leave it where it is.

Keith: 19:51

Yeah, totally. Anyway, good for him and good for everybody else out there

Payman: 19:55

doing it.

Keith: 19:56

Yeah,

Payman: 19:57

for

Keith: 19:57

sure. Uh, so let's, uh, Again, like I said, I already know, I'm familiar with your work, but for those that are watching this and who aren't, let's, uh, let's impress them. Let me hit the share screen here and get this thing out there. All right, here we go. So, yeah, just tell me about this.

Payman: 20:18

Oh, this is, I mean, um, this is just a guy in Stockholm. Uh, this was, I think some two summers ago. Um, basically when I, when I go out and searching for, for people, there's, I, I really want to look for people that are having some sort of a death, um, carries some pain, or there is a lot of emotion and you can, I can see that quite quickly by just browsing the crowd and looking for eyes. So I saw this guy and he was. standing and talking to another guy very intensively. So basically what I did was just, I, I just went in between, between them, two guys talking to each other and, and, uh, took this picture. Um, and I shot it with like a Q2. Um, so it was very easy for me to just jump in and take those pictures. And he just, he just continued to, to talk and do gestures with his friends. So it was an in and out kind of thing.

Keith: 21:21

So you didn't have any interaction with him prior to this? You just jumped in and got the show. Yeah,

Payman: 21:26

I didn't have the, I didn't talk to him afterwards. I mean, just when a couple, after a couple of seconds, because it was, Oh, you know, what's going on. And I was like, You know what you guys are doing, just look so intense. I just want to capture it. And I must be a photographer that the usual talk. So, um, yeah, because I, I didn't want it to, cause he was just so intense and I want to capture that. And I didn't want to reset that feeling he was having.

Keith: 21:55

So that's, that's great.

Payman: 21:59

Yeah. The thing is that I, you know, when I, I'm an introvert, uh, by person, so I find it ironically very hard to go and talk to as people. So, but when I see someone that is like this, then it's everything just like, okay, I need to get this. I don't care what he says or what

Keith: 22:18

happens. So,

Payman: 22:19

yeah.

Keith: 22:21

And so, yeah, this guy's got, I'm sure has an interesting backstory.

Payman: 22:25

Yeah, he does. So this guy is, um, a lot of people think that this photo was taking in the U S because Swedes tend to think that. Cowboys only exist in the US. So, uh, I took this picture in Stockholm as well. So there was a guy, this guy, um, I saw him a couple of times in the city center, but I didn't dare to ask him. Um, but then one day I was like, this is, you just have to do it. Um, and I walked past him. And I turned to him and said, Hey, excuse me, can I take your photo? We were both walking and he goes, I was just expecting him to just throw out some angry reaction to me because it looks insane and he just turns towards me and it's such a. Nice and polite guy and goes, yeah, of course I can do that, but it would be nice of you to present, you know, present yourself with me and I was just like, oh, wow, you know, did not expect that coming. So, I said, I am, I'm a photographer, you know, you have such a amazing look, it would be great to just take your portrait and it was like, yeah, no, no problem. Um, and I said, well, can we, can we just move like a couple of meters to the side? Because I just wanted to have him with a white background. So just moving around the pictures. And I was like, how come your face is, I asked him how old he was. He was like, Oh, I'm, I'm, I just turned 65, uh, or 67. He was like, okay, what's up, what's the story with the tattoos and stuff like, Oh, you know, Actually, I got my whole face tattooed when I went into pension at 65. It's like, okay, but did you have no, that was a, that was a dream of mine, but I couldn't do it because of my job. So they had turned 65 and we just spent a tattoo on his, tattooed my face. I had tattoos all over his body before. Wow. But it was just such a, you tend to build up this, um, Monsters in your head around that puts limitations for you. Like I was just seeing this guy so many times. Oh, he's probably quite angry and not the type of guy you want to talk to, but the opposite. It was just such a nice guy. And just, he said yes directly. So

Keith: 24:54

very cool. No, we'll say he's got his, uh, his, his year of his birth. Yeah. On his eyebrow.

Payman: 25:01

Exactly. And when you take the hat off, I have another picture of that, there is a spider web on his entire head.

Keith: 25:08

Very cool. If I remember right, uh, didn't this when, this is again, you, you pretty much own, and I'm going to get into that. Uh, Like practically stock and LFI was with, uh, with, uh, their master shots. And yeah, this is, this is one of the master shots if I recall.

Payman: 25:25

Yeah, I think, yeah, definitely one of the master shots. Um,

Keith: 25:29

yeah,

Payman: 25:32

that's one of those like markers when you do something and all of a sudden you take a picture like that. It's like, Oh, this is unbelievable. Well, I've, you know, a cowboy in Stockholm and like never happens. And he's also tattooed his entire face, so,

Keith: 25:45

yeah.

Payman: 25:46

Yeah. Um,

Keith: 25:48

Mr. Shaman.

Payman: 25:49

Yeah. So this gentleman, um, is also in Stockholm, um, is just close, very close by where I, where I live. And, uh, I was just in at seven 11 having a hot dog. And I just, in my, the corner of my eye. I just see this super dressed gentleman with a white suit, a white shirt, a hat, the whole look, very dark skin. He looks like a gentleman, black gentleman from like a 70s, probably same student from the 70s. So just walking and same thing there. I just ran out in front of him and just like halted him with a hat and then. Start taking pictures of him and he did just, he just like. Worked along, uh, and the smoke, so he kind of, uh, understood the assignment when I was just went out and put the hand up and did it. So, uh, this shot, yeah, this shot on the Paris photo festival, the gold medal has been, um, Highlighted by Getty reportage a couple of times, um, and like, uh, like a photo of the week. So, and also this was also displayed at the cultural, uh, center in Istanbul, uh, last year at the exhibition. So it's been one of those photos that been taking me around.

Keith: 27:20

Nice. Very cool. Yeah. I love it was just again, obviously the, uh, the, the gaze, everything about it, but just that extra little bit about him just releasing that smoke coming right at it again, he's got lips parted just enough and yeah, it just, it's just perfect.

Payman: 27:37

That, I mean, that's the thing that if you, if you have the right energy meeting the people that you're meeting in this, and they see, you give them the chance to understand what's going to happen. Uh, most of the time people just tag along because they always say, Oh, this guy is going to take a cool photo of me. He probably likes how I look in the pipe. And so he just opened his mouth and the smoke came out and that was it.

Keith: 28:02

So out of curiosity, when you. Well, after you've approached somebody, whether it's you start, then you, you, you speak to them at some point, do you offer them to give them like a, uh, uh, like a file of a portrait?

Payman: 28:15

Yeah. I mean, almost every time. Yeah. I, they want to have it for them. It's okay. Just send it to him. Um, this guy didn't want it I was like, I'm, I'm a good photographer, you know, probably want this. He was like, no, it's okay.

Keith: 28:32

Yeah. I, I, yeah. I think it's hysterical as to how many times when I've approached people and, uh. They don't seem to really care to have like, I carry with me a card because again, I live in France, even in the US, but here in France, my, my French is really bad. So I've got a card that I give out. That's everything's in French. I tell them if they don't speak English, that if you just. Here, this is how to contact me. I'm going to give you something. They always seem to take it. And I would say at best, a third, at best, a third of the people ever contact me. I mean, it's just interesting that people are like, Hey, you know, it's, I'm just walking through the, I'm walking through my daily life and somebody wants to take my picture good for them. I'm like, excellent.

Payman: 29:18

Well, I think that's the thing. A lot of, um, when I do workshops or presentations, that's the most common question. Like, how do you get to these people? And how do you, where do you see them? And how do you do it? And I just tell them like 90 percent of the limitation that makes it hard for you to go and ask is just stuff that you're doing by yourself. Most people, nine out of 10, Uh, is if you do it in the right way, they actually think it's a nice thing that you want to take two photos. If you get them, they get a very nice photo from a good photographer.

Keith: 29:52

Yeah, it's all I was, it's the energy that you put out. If you come across as like you're doing something bad, you're doing something creepy. They, they read that if you're coming across as what's going, Hey, I'm just. I just, and you're honest and you just say, I love the way you're a little flattery, a smile, something like that. And people are just, they're thankful. Yeah. For sure. Excellent. So, okay. This, this has one of the, again, with the bandana on his face and the, uh, the look has a, the look of like, okay, how, how did you approach this guy?

Payman: 30:26

So this guy, I was doing a project about a basketball court in the city center and he was sitting, uh, was sitting a little bit far off from the rest of the group. Um, and he just had a bandana on. I had no idea why. Uh, um, I just showed him, just pointed at my camera and pointed at him because we were just talking on the phone. And was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he just put the phone in the pocket and said, Oh, well, how, you know, and in English, how do you want me to, what do you want me to do? And I was like, do what you want to do, just do whatever comes to your mind. And then we take it from there. And then he goes like, yeah, with the fingers on his. And, and just took the photo, so it wasn't, it wasn't more than that. And that's, I was super lucky because I was just like, do whatever you want to do. And he does this pose. Um, and this is, uh, to me is an important photo because I just recently, when I took that picture, I got from. I got to like a Q2 as a fixed lens, 28 millimeter, not consider the best lens for, or the focal length for portraits. Um, so, but I had an admission about what I want to, I wanted to take very, very strong, impactful photos. We almost are very close to the subject. Um, so when I took that, took, I mean, when I took that, I was like, It was a marker for me. Okay. This is exactly the type of photo that I want to take. Because when you, when you shift path, you start doing something new and you're always exploring, like you don't get it right. Your vision is not like, you're not calibrated to your vision. But when I took this photo, I was like, yes, this is exactly the reason I got this camera, this focal Uh, and then from that point, I just, that summer just produced so many good photos because I found a marker on, on how, which type of photos I want to take.

Keith: 32:32

Nice. Yeah. Again, if that was, you did that with a 28, that's amazing how, how close you must have been in order to, uh, I don't see any particular, uh, signs of distortion. Again, that's the, it's a great camera and a great lens. So.

Payman: 32:46

Yeah, it is. So, um, yeah, so you just have to with 28, you just need to know that sweet spot of not being too far away or being too close and you do it right. You get that slight, slight distortion just enhances, more enhances the feeling of you being very close rather than creating this fisheye effect.

Keith: 33:05

All right. Very, very nice. Thanks. Uh, and now, now for something completely different.

Payman: 33:12

Yeah. So this is, um, a clown in Istanbul. So it's super early morning. I think it's like around eight, seven, eight o'clock in the morning. Um, and I was just going from my hotel to the city center and I see this clown just put his makeup on while he's taking a smoke. And I, um, so basically the same thing there. I just asked him, Hey, is it okay if I take your photo? And he was, yeah, just, okay. Then I think it was like two, three, four shots. And I was like, thank you. And I just gave him a hug. I got a couple of euros as a thank you because it's one of those like street performance artists to, to get money. So, and I think that was it. It's very, I got probably a 10 second for a shoot in some backstreet in Istanbul.

Keith: 34:07

Yeah. I've never been to Istanbul. It's not, it's definitely high on my list back. I was in Izmir when I was in the Navy, but again, I got actually some decent photos from that back in film, of course, because it was 1989. But let's go to, uh, yeah, Istanbul has escaped me. It won't now because I'm a lot closer than I was when I was living in New York.

Payman: 34:30

Istanbul is great because, um, uh, obviously because you have one foot in, in Europe, one foot in Middle East, you can have very, you know, Very, very, you know, special mix of atmosphere and also Turkey has such a amazing history and start strong heritage of photography. So there's a lot of, a lot of good photographers there. So you should just connect with someone through Instagram, um, they'll be more than happy to just not only invite you to show you all the nice places hidden gems, but it will most likely invite you to their homes, which means that you get out of Istanbul and. See, you know, the more how, how the people live, get to the, to the slow places. So I can definitely, I can definitely recommend it.

Keith: 35:18

That's not, that'd be great. Again, I can think of this. Yeah, not, not to sidetrack the whole thing, but yeah, when I was in this mirror, I ended up getting this one, just making a phone call and having the hardest time back in the old days of pay phones and the pay phones. They were different than the pay phones in the U S I had no idea how to do this. I literally, so some girl walked up and helped me, we started chatting. She said, well, she, uh, she works in the NATO base. Uh, how are you in whatever introduced me to her brother who then the next day just picked me up on a moped and we, he took me everywhere. I got photos and food and history and a tour because somebody helped me make a phone call.

Payman: 36:03

Yeah, no, I mean, it's a great, uh, I think that's, uh, that city kind of embodies how great photography is because it just, it connects to you and it connected me with you, probably never happened if you were not both in photography. And wherever I go, I know that I have a list of photographers on my Instagram that I just can't reach out to. So at Instagram, the guys there is just like, Yeah. Come over, you know, come to my family. Here's my wife, here's my brother. Uh, it becomes so nice because you create this like long lasting, life lasting.

Keith: 36:40

That's awesome. Again, I recognize this as another master shot.

Payman: 36:47

Yeah, it is. Um, this was also taken in Stockholm. I think it was like a, um, during lunch one day and this, uh, I mean, photo doesn't, this photo doesn't make her justice. She, her hair was so like on fire. It was almost like her soul was up in the air. And I just also on those moments, I saw her and I was like, I don't care. I need to take a portrait. Did it stopped her and say, you look absolutely. Beautiful. I mean, you gotta let me take and she stopped blushing and said, Oh, I'm not even having a good day. You know, it's like, if this is your bad day, you know, uh, you know, if you get a, if you get a model contract, I just want 10 percent of the car, you know, try to switch a good shirt. She was like, yeah, for sure. I just stopped her by the sidewalk and it happened to be a white background. I took a couple of photos. I asked her, you know, would you like, would you like to see the photos? She said, yeah, show me on the camera. I showed it. Um, you want me to send it to you? No, it's okay. It's fine. Thank you. You made my day. You know, so also one of those very, very brief moments on the street.

Keith: 38:04

How beautiful is it that in such a small encounter, you can actually alter this woman's day and just make her, just make her feel good.

Payman: 38:12

Yeah. She was like walking down the street or there in the head down and we spoke, Oh, you know, you just made my day. Thank you so much. That makes it all a lot nicer.

Keith: 38:23

It does. A hundred percent. Okay. Obviously we're switching over to, uh, your film, your film work. Yeah.

Payman: 38:31

You can see that by the stains and the scratches, there's not a, there's not a fixed up negative that I didn't know. So this photo was probably taken out last summer when I started shooting. Um, same thing there. I didn't get the grip of film. I was like, ah, this is so tricky. I can't get the exposure right. Um, too slow. Um, whatever I, I developed a negative that scratches on. So I was almost on the verge of going back to digital, just like giving surrendering to my, to my, okay, screw my vision, I'm just going to go back to. To whatever I did before. So when I took that photo, it was one of those moments like, ah, yes, one of those markers of this is exactly the type of photos I want to take with the film camera, like very classic timeless. Um, so also taking, uh, also taking in Stockholm, that was one of those like, okay, you're, you're doing the right thing. Keep on doing this. You will learn to develop better and take better film photos.

Keith: 39:36

So I know on a a Q2 it's got a fixed 28. Uh, what lens are, do you have a, you probably have a few lenses. What's your, what's your, do you have like a preferred, like a go-to focal length for your Uh,

Payman: 39:48

um, this was actually with a 35 Okay. Which is a beautiful lens for film actually. So I was shooting with 35 millimeter. Um, I use 28 or 35, depending on what kind of mood I'm in or

Keith: 40:05

so. So you're obviously wide open and nailed focused on his eyes and that, which is not easy to do.

Payman: 40:10

No, I know. And it's, uh, I find that Actually, my hit rate is almost 100 percent with a manual focus camera for portraits when compared to when I was using a digital because digital could, you know, lock it on your eyebrows or you think you're on the eye, but you're not so actually I have no problem shooting at F2 with range finder, finding the focus on the eyes.

Keith: 40:39

Very cool. And how did we, uh, how'd you get into here?

Payman: 40:46

So this is also, uh, taken with film on the same, same camera, like empty, uh, 35 Opel. This was a summer, this guy who was the guy standing in it, right in the city center, and he was giving, uh, Kids from the suburbs or indicate but most of them from suburbs free haircuts because he had a saloon in the suburb So and there was a long line of young guys To get a haircut. This guy was sitting there and just was about to get his head shaved off from the side He's getting some sort of a fade So same thing there. So I approached the approach this approach the barber and I looked at him to kind of get his approval of interfering so When they did that, I just, you know, check out the light. I adjusted the cameras, all the settings, because I just wanted to jump in, not jump, but like just fold in front of him and take a picture. I didn't want to fold in front of him and destroy the moment. Yeah. So everything was set. I just leaned in. And I got this, which I'm very happy with this actually one of my favorite photos.

Keith: 42:01

Cool. Great. And the detail is great.

Payman: 42:05

Yeah. I mean, it is, uh, now it becomes, I think when you upload it here, the solution comes a little bit down.

Keith: 42:13

Yeah. I can still see, again, knowing, having a background in film was good. Again, like digital, everything is just like so sharp. There's a certain, again, there's a certain, it's hard to explain. You kind of have to see much more film to understand the ability, yeah. To both be sharp and yet not as sharp all at the exact same time.

Payman: 42:33

That's the thing, that's the, you have to experience it to appreciate it, so you get as exactly as, say, you get the sharpness, but still around the, the highlights. You have much more details. The highlight versus digital, the background, even though it's outta focus. So you have to be a little bit nerdy to see those things, which I love. I can talk about rendering for like hours and days.

Keith: 42:57

So do you, uh, do you process your own film or do you send it out?

Payman: 43:01

No, I do it myself. Um, so I develop in my, uh, I live in an apartment or a flat, so I develop it in my bathroom. I scan it at home. I have a friend who has a darkroom, so I printed, uh, prints there. I do, and it's such a, I love the process. I know if you come from cable to digital, you're like, Ah, this is so nice too. Not do all that, but I, I really love it because you take the photo and you take the roll out, you put it up and oh, you know, there is something on the, uh, you dries up, you scan it, and you just start coming into the, you know, computer. I absolutely love, love that process.

Keith: 43:43

Yeah. It's funny, the, uh, what IMS is not, uh, developing film as much. That was, that was never my favorite part. But the, uh, the printing. I love, love, love, love. It was so cathartic. And you can just turn on, turn on your radio. You got to have, have a glass of wine off in the corner. I could go all night and just, uh, and working on like a single print and just to get it exactly, hopefully I can get multiple prints, but it's just to get it exactly the way you want, which another year, you're down the line, you'll get it again. Like, hold on. I want to revisit this and go in and do it a little different. But each one, each one is, even if you're running through the whole process, like, and you want to make five copies of the same picture, there's still going to be slight variances. And that's the beauty of the whole thing.

Payman: 44:33

Yeah, it's, it's a, it becomes a craftsmanship when you do it, you know, from scratch, taking a photo on a negative and develop it in a print, um, which is very extremely rewarding. And at the end also, it looks so good.

Keith: 44:47

Yeah. And the other thing is I do think, uh, contact sheets, there's more information that you can get from looking at a single contact sheet than you could ever get by looking at your metadata. Because you're, I mean, you, cause everything comes and you can just make it better, make it worse. You just bump this versus telling you, okay, not lying to you anyway. You overexpose this as opposed to that shot. Like, okay, your exposures are all over the place where your exposures are all, uh, on point. So you can't lie. Yeah. You can't lie to a contact sheet. I guess it's one of those things like you either get it or you don't. And, uh, again, so, I mean, these are the things, the nerdy things that I miss that I really don't. Nobody seems to care, and I guess it doesn't really matter, but I still miss it.

Payman: 45:36

Yeah, I mean, I think you take the photo, I mean, I take photos for myself, so of course I'm obsessed about the details and find it, and also it's when people, people that know how it is to take a photograph of a film, they then, they appreciate that, oh, You got the exposure right there, you know, they know how much work is behind making that happen. Uh, which is also nice to talk to people that actually knows, knows about the process.

Keith: 46:06

So what was going on here? I'm going to, uh, we'll say a light bulb over this kid's shoulder, but I'm like, it, it's, it's shaped. It's so perfectly like one that it can't possibly be exactly. It's probably a light bulb, but the, the, the star coming out of it.

Payman: 46:27

So this one is all the three pictures that we are looking at is. From the same project about kids hanging around in, in the city center of Stockholm. So the same thing. So this is also during the same summer, um, some sort of a soccer tournament in the city center. But what I liked about this photo myself was that, uh, it's not propped or adjusted. And shooting with a range finder, you know that the range finder is not exact. And I really wanted to crop him, um, from the nose. I took that picture and you only get one chance. So, he was, he was facing his friends. So, I just said, I just focused on his face. And I just shouted, uh, Broor. And Broor means brother. And that's the slang they use in that age. Hey, brother. So I just said, Hey brother. And he turned around and then I took that, that one photo. So it's to me, it's like the composition is perfect. I got the frame last perfect. He's lined up perfectly. Um, that was also one of those markets like, Oh, it's so satisfying when you make it right. And it becomes such a good photo.

Keith: 47:43

Very cool. Nice. So do another technical question here. Uh, so since you're shooting on film, are you, uh, are you metering in camera or do you, uh, carry what's got a, a hand meter or do you do a combination of the two?

Payman: 48:03

Uh, I'm metering in camera. Uh, especially I, depending on, uh, uh, if, if I have time. Sometimes you, you feel like, oh, this guy is. You know, he's not, he's not going to allow you to stand there for a long time. You probably got 10 seconds to take a picture. Then I just do it in the camera and take a photo. Uh, and it works, you know, it works pretty well. Uh, but what I've done recently is that on my phone and this app called light meter, uh, and I just downloaded and started using it. Um, it actually, the light meeting is a little bit more accurate with that one in the camera. Yeah. So, um, I, I use, I just try to keep it as simple as possible. And nine out of 10 times the camera does it for you.

Keith: 48:53

That's cool. And you're, uh, you're using what an MP?

Payman: 48:57

Yeah, I use a MP, uh, black paint. It's

Keith: 49:03

nice.

Payman: 49:04

I mean, and it started to brass. You can't see that on a photo, but.

Keith: 49:07

That's

Payman: 49:09

every time I pick you up, I'm just falling in love. I mean, I can look at it 10 times and it's such a beautiful camera. Can't wait to go out and take pictures with it. I absolutely love

Keith: 49:20

it. I hear you again. I don't have an, I've got an M three from the fifties. It's actually one of the few things I had that's older than I am. But, uh, yeah, it's the, uh, but my, uh, my M 10 monochrome. I actually like the silver cameras personally, because I think they just look older and there's a certain classic thing. And no matter how people just automatically assume that it's an old camera and nobody bothers to think, Oh, as far as Leica goes, like people, I see tape over the, uh, like your average, if the person knows what a Leica is, that tape doesn't fool them. And if they, uh, And if they don't know what a like is, they don't care about the red dot. No, I mean,

Payman: 50:05

I also think that just like, stop putting the red, just tape over it. If they know, they know

Keith: 50:11

if they want to

Payman: 50:12

take it anyway, they're

Keith: 50:13

going to take it anyway. Most likely they're not because they're going to think it's an old, it looks like an old camera and they're just like, there's no money. Why would, why would I want an old camera? Whether it's a new digital or the, everybody asked me on my, uh, I'm tense. I usually tell them no unless what's good. I had one one situation. I was in. Uh, in Pigalle and uh, and so this guy who a good bit bigger than I was and, uh, just cracked out on something and, uh, just, uh, Just chatting me up and thinking myself, this guy's gonna make a grab for my camera. And so I'm thinking, ah, so I'm just, we're chatting. I'm trying to, in my head, think, okay, how can I get out of the situation without getting hurt?

Payman: 51:01

Yeah.

Keith: 51:01

And all of a sudden, he like paused at my camera. I was like, that's old. I'm like, yeah, they just don't make them like they used to. And I wouldn't show, I just kept it close so they couldn't see the digital screen. Yeah,

Payman: 51:13

it happened to be in Stockholm last week. Sorry. No, I, I exactly the same thing. I was standing with my MP, uh, and just like browsing to see if there is someone and this guy approaches me and you, I mean, there is no chance in hell that a guy was into photography at all. And he was like, uh, okay. So yeah. So that is that an expensive camera? I was like, Oh, this one. No, it's even like film camera. You can't even, what is film? It's like, you have to, you know, there is no, there is nothing here. You can look, you can't see anything. I was like, oh, okay. I just walked away. You had no idea what this thing costs.

Keith: 51:52

That's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Again, if he did know what, if he did know what it costs, his next question would be now, why would you do that?

Payman: 52:00

Yeah, exactly. So, uh, no, it's good. That's, that's one of the good things. Perks with shooting with a rangefinder style camera.

Keith: 52:08

And so this is the last in this, but I'm going to, uh, earlier, I mentioned to, uh, to the people that don't know, uh, that you should pretty much have, like, uh, like you, you practically have your own section to LFI, like you should have like stock in them. And so I happen to have brought up your, your page and just, I just want to show people, I mean, this isn't even all of them, but I'm just going to go, I'll go from the top here. Okay. So for those that don't know LFI, it's, it's a, you can join it without having to have a Leica. It's, it's a, it's a beautiful site. They have all sorts of good stuff. And actually, if I recall you to, to get your image on, you don't even have to have a Leica. Like they'll take non Leica images. I've just never seen one, but, but anyway, I've seen

Payman: 52:55

a couple of people that are actually up there, but yeah, it's free for everyone. I discovered like, uh, photography international a couple of years ago. Um, I think it's such an amazing platform because you can upload your stuff, the editors will pick and pick you and give you these master shots or put foot on the week, which is actually in the beginning, if you're starting off, it's quite empowering. Like, Oh, it's actually, it's a editorial team choosing my photos. Um, And they they have been very supportive of my work because they put me in prints. They have interviewed me and being very empowering. But more importantly, this is one of the places to actually log into and not to go to, because you can you can. Filter with different categories. If you want to see street photography, portraits, Asia, you can, you can browse different areas, but you can also then filter on what type of camera focal length is actually a very good. Inspirational tool. If you would not trying to explore new focal length, how would a portrait 24 millimeter look, and then you can actually put that in and go and look. So it's really, I can really recommend it. For everyone regarding if you should like or not to visit that page.

Keith: 54:15

Yeah, I agree for exactly those reasons, your ability to go in and say, okay, if you're thinking you want to buy a different lens, or you were like, what was right? It's, uh, it's good to, to narrow it down, like from, you know, focal lengths, whether it's manual focus, whether it's film, whether it's digital and what the looks are and all that kind of stuff. And I said, I love this shot again. Tell me something about this. If you would.

Payman: 54:43

This is in obviously in London, um, last year, yeah, August 22 years ago. So this guy was, uh, same thing. He was sitting and listening to music and smoking. And, uh, and I saw that he was. You know, on the sides is like this black screens so I could clearly not directly see that. Oh, I can use that reflection to make something interesting. So, I just went in and say, just pointed at him, like, oh, is it okay if I take a photo and he didn't even take his airpods off. Yeah, I just nodded and continue smoking and he was flipping his phone and I just like for maybe a good minute, just took some photos and, you know, change the angle and did it and it was like totally fine. And afterwards it was like looking at me nodding, I'm not back and that was it, like no interaction whatsoever. Uh, apart from that, this was shown with a monochrome and uh, uh, 35 millimeter.

Keith: 55:52

Let me see, again, I've got the, uh. Us blocking that. I just want to show. Uh, for people, so what we're talking about, see if you hear it again, this is a master shot picture of the week. It shows where it was on info, but then you go to camera, M 10 monochrome, it tells you the lens, all the settings. And like, it's a great way for people to learn, uh, that are just interested in geeking out on, on the tech data as well. Not just the tech data, but just the beautiful images. So

Payman: 56:23

yeah. Also, I mean, what they do is. I think that they do is that they have editorial team and, uh, for me, kind of a kicked off my hobby career in this was that they see, I mean, if they see you upload a couple of different photos and they see a red pattern, like, okay, this is, this is, uh, Very consistent or there's a project. They actually tend to take those up. I'd say, Hey, you know, we see that you're taking this type of portraits. It looks really interesting. Is this a project? And that's how it started for me. And I said, yeah, this is about a project I'm working on. Then they interviewed me and put it, uh, put them on the, on their blog, because there's a fantastic blog there as well. Uh, and after that, it was like, Oh, you would like to. Uh, have your work as an interview piece, quite a big piece, about six, seven, eight pages. Maybe like a photography magazine. And then when that happened after that, you know, different magazines started to, to contact me. So I really, I think it's a fantastic platform that like I've done for photographers.

Keith: 57:32

That's, that's very cool. Of course you have to be again, Not everybody's going to get that, but, uh, but it's something you aspire to. So it's, uh, and it's nice that they do it. Yeah. So it's nice that they were doing it without you actually seeking it out. So that's very cool. So I'm sure I could talk about more again, if we were sitting, uh, sitting with some drinks that I'd be chatting all day long, but I don't want to say that I have to get up there. But I don't want to take up too much of your day. I really appreciate you, uh, you coming on and sharing all this. Uh, so really nice. Thank

Payman: 58:09

you for inviting

Keith: 58:09

me.

Payman: 58:10

Um, it's really nice. I mean, as you know, I can talk about rendering and we can deep dive. This was just a scratch on the surface.

Keith: 58:17

Exactly. Very cool. All right. Enjoy the rest of your day. And, uh, I'm sure I'll see you again soon. Soon. Some, some sooner. Sooner. As soon as possible.

Payman: 58:28

Yeah. Yeah. And if you have questions that you're listening, both of you are listening or watching this, uh, just shoot the message to me on Instagram. I'm more than happy to, to answer it there. Or, or if you coming to Stockholm, any of you, I'm here. I'll take care of you, show you all the, all the, not all the few gems that we have in Stockholm. There're not many, but we do have a couple of more than happy to support you on that.

Keith: 58:48

Very cool. Alright. All right. Thank you so much. Take you. You too, bye bye. Bye.