Documentary and Street Photographer Chaz Niell in conversation

Behind the Lens: Chaz Niell's Photographic Journey

In this episode of 'Meet the Streets,' host Keith sits down with Chaz Niell, a street and documentary photographer from Washington, D.C. Chaz shares his progression in photography, from starting out with a Minolta 201 to studying at the Art Institute of Pittsburgh, becoming a freelance photographer, and his passion for street photography with Leica gear. They discuss his work covering various events—from sports to politics—and the intricacies of freelancing. Chaz recounts meaningful stories behind his photos taken during protests, in Cuba, and within the Afro-Mexican community, highlighting the power of capturing authentic moments and voices. The conversation also touches on the privileges of earning trust in intimate settings and the importance of maintaining integrity in media projects, concluding with thoughts on future collaborations.

00:00 Welcome to Meet the Streets: Featuring Chaz Niell
01:19 Chaz Niell: A Journey Through Photography
02:34 Diving Deep into Street and Sports Photography
05:18 The Freelance Life: Challenges and Joys
10:34 Exploring the Impact of Location on Photography
28:44 The Power of Protest Photography
30:30 Personal Connections Through the Lens
39:46 Capturing the Essence of Public Demonstrations
45:59 A Photographer's Ethos: Respect and Engagement
48:31 Discovering the Power of Photography
48:55 The Art of Capturing Soulful Images
50:02 Curating Images with Music: A Cinematic Approach
55:43 Exploring the African Diaspora in Mexico
01:06:24 The Emotional Journey of Documentary Photography
01:21:35 The Importance of Trust in Photography
01:23:44 Navigating the Challenges of Street Photography
01:29:28 Reflecting on a Photographer's Journey

Thank you for listening! If you want to see the video, go to my youtube channel street photography mentor.
To see my street photography you can go to my instagram @keithmpitts or go to my website keithpitts.com. There you can also get info and sign up for my street photography workshops in Paris.

Transcript

keith: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of Meet the Streets, a podcast for street and documentary photographers. In today's episode, we're going to meet Chaz Neal, a photographer based out of Washington, D. C. Come back each week and meet another photographer from somewhere else in the world. Now, Chaz. Thank you all for tuning in and, uh, in case you don't know, and I'm, I'm lucky because as the, uh, the host here, I know exactly who I'm talking to, but this is Chaz Neal.

If you don't know who he is, uh, you're in for a treat. So Chaz, do me a favor. Please, uh, introduce yourself. 

Chaz: Yes, I'm Chaz Neal, a photographer based just outside of Washington, D. C. area here in the United States. And I just want to say thank you, Keith, for inviting me on to your podcast, Street Photography Mentorship.

I appreciate the opportunity and grateful to sit down with you. 

keith: Uh, thank you very much. Yeah. So again, you go beyond street photographer, [00:01:00] obviously. So it's, uh, you're a photographer. Definitely. It was good, but you, one of, one of your, uh, again, your outstanding abilities is street photography. So at various points, I think I'm going to ask you questions on all of this stuff, and I'm going to point people to your website, which is outstanding.

But, uh, for now it's, we'll talk, uh, mostly street photography. So how did you, but just in your, for a background, like how did you Walk us through, it doesn't have to be like literally every step, but your journey through photography, how you got to where you are now. 

Chaz: Yeah, I, uh, my degrees in photography multimedia graduated from the Art Institute of Pittsburgh.

Uh, prior to that, I probably had, I probably had my first photography class, uh, 8th grade, I think, 8th or 9th grade, started out with the old Minolta 201 and, uh, film, obviously, and, uh, like I said, moved over to To high school [00:02:00] and junior high school, junior high school, high school and college, and after I graduated college, uh, actually programmed animation on computers for probably about eight years, about, yeah, about eight years, but, uh, really kind of stepped away from photography for a little bit.

Just doing the programming of animation and things, uh, and then kind of got out of that industry and did some little odd things around the city, but really photography just kept really calling me, really calling me to the point that, um, I wanted to do sports. Uh, you know, obviously from the website, you can see, uh, a lot of sports, um, entertainment and political stuff here in the DC area.

Um, but the sports things have been kind of like all around. So along with, you know, like kind of before we were talking, I Predominantly shoot with like a stuff now, but I do own canning here as well. That's what I [00:03:00] cover most of my sports stuff with all of the sports stuff. Uh, one D X mark twos and mark threes and things of that nature.

So, uh, been self employed since 2008 full time and just freelancing, working with, you know, boutique agencies initially. Uh, and one of the reasons probably more so than anything is, uh, The biggest thing with any of this is having access, especially with sports or entertainment. You got to get your foot in the door to create the content.

So if not working with AP or Getty or something like that, your major agencies, uh, you can still be shoulder to shoulder with those guys with the access to cover these events. And so that's the route that I chose. Um, yeah. I think starting out with a little bit of fashion photography, a fashion runway, I should say, and, uh, now I am [00:04:00] since 2019, uh, also a getty image contributor.

So I like that still gives you the opportunity to, uh. You know, own your own stuff, but at the same time, you know, have your stuff, uh, distributed through that, that arm that some people like, some people don't like, you know, for, for various reasons. And that, that goes across all, uh, mediums, whether it be entertainment, whether it be sports, you know, but still, uh, you know, you can shoot for the smaller agencies and have but sometimes, A, they either don't have the branch, Or the reach to distribute the way a Getty would have, or what happens as well is they may have those same smaller boutique agencies may wind up sometimes having a relationship with Getty as well.

So it'll get distributed that way, but the, maybe the drawback to that is, is, is [00:05:00] what you're getting. Kind of gets cut in half because your boutique agency has to get, you know, what they get from Getty and then you get it. So, so now I just, I'm just through straight through Getty and I don't have a middleman per se.

So, but yeah, and just, that's where I'm at now. So just freelancing and you know, which I, I enjoy. It comes, it can be a wilderness experience at times, as I'm sure you know. Um, but, uh, I, I don't think I would have it any other way. 

keith: Again, the, the freedom of, if you can call it the, the freedom of having to scro, scrap and scrounge for your own food is, uh,

Mm-Hmm. is, uh, it, it, yeah. I, I agree with you again. I've been doing that for, uh, for , the lion's share of, uh, of, of my, actually. For my photographic life, it's always been about, about freelance. Again, it's amazing. Some people love, again, as you seem to be on my camp, [00:06:00] some people seem to love what's called the certainty of knowing where that check is coming, how much that check is going to be for, and what it is.

Yeah. And that makes a lot of sense to me, but for some strange reason, I go insane with, uh, like stability drives me nuts. I have absolutely, that's not rational. I get it. But how about how do you feel? 

Chaz: Well, it's, it's, it's interesting. Um, I, I couldn't agree with you more and, you know, you're absolutely right.

Uh, some people will look at it as, you know, week in and week out or, or bi, bi weekly. They want to know, you know, what the check is going to be, things of that nature. And I guess there's a couple of ways of looking at it, um, there's a couple ways of looking at it. You, you can, um, you can be self motivated, which is what I, how I see [00:07:00] myself.

Um, the thing with my, I remember probably seven hours on my own, you know, the one thing my mom says when she's retired visiting nurse, like, Oh my God, how can you do that? I, I, I just want to have, I want to know what I'm getting every single week. I'm like, okay, I understand it. You know what? I understand. I came from you, but obviously I'm not quite built to say, you know, but I think the thing is too, is, is a betting on yourself.

But also being motivated yourself is all, being self motivated, you know, I guess, again, you know, it's, it has its pros and cons, you know, but at the same time, I am of the, of the, the mindset of just kind of working and just chasing stuff, going after stuff on my own. I mean, having that, that, that, okay, I'm, I'm just showing up kind of collecting a paycheck type of thing and that doesn't [00:08:00] necessarily mean, but I mean, some people like the stability side.

I get it. I get it. It doesn't, maybe we're wired differently. 

keith: Yeah, the world needs all of us in order to balance itself out. Very much so. Yeah, so there's a, uh, there's an expression that I heard a long time ago that, uh, sounds better when I'm not saying it, uh, eloquently. Uh, there's an ask for every seat.

And it's, and it is my favorite, it's my favorite saying of all time, because every, every time that I'm like, I want to change up and I want to do something. And, uh, the smart thing would seem to be just keep doing what's working. I'm like, ah, there's somebody out there that wants this. I don't know who they are and they don't know who I am, but we're going to find each other.

Chaz: Well, I think that, that keeps, I kind of think for myself. It, um, keeps things fresh, so to speak. Um, [00:09:00] you know, sometimes people, you know, you have that term masters, masters, what is it? Masters of a lot of things. Well, no, um, I forget how it goes, but you're not you're not mastering one thing when you do a lot of things.

You know, sometimes that's used in a negative connotation. But the fact of the matter is, I guess, again, you know, depending on how people are wired Uh, you know, some people need variety. Some people, you know, if you say master a particular task or position, you know, even if you're in a day to day or a staff situation, you're going to get to a point where You're, you're doing something like it's in your sleep and you're going to want to challenge.

You're going to want to either have more responsibility, uh, and go somewhere else for it. If you use the opportunities, don't lie where you are. Well, if you're doing some stuff on your own, if you, and then I take the term [00:10:00] from another podcast, but you know, if you. And pivot, if you will, and go in another direction, a direction that you've never been in before, or direction that just, uh, may expound upon what you're already doing and give you the opportunity to just, uh, have more tools in your bag.

That's a good thing also. So it's just a lot of different ways to look at it. But yeah, a lot of people just, just aren't that of, you know, they want the stability and I can appreciate that. 

keith: Same here. So, um, in general, like how much time do you get, I could say that you devote to say street photography, like as a, like as street photography versus a documentary or whatever else you're going out there and actually earning a living at.

Chaz: Um, the percentages, uh, I don't know, but 

keith: obviously just some random around, 

Chaz: I mean, I would say probably I like to do, [00:11:00] I would almost say here in the city. Sometimes for me, uh, the street stuff can be a little almost seasonal. If that makes sense. You know, it depends on what's happening here. Uh, the 1 thing that I, I will say that I really appreciate, uh, About the Washington metropolitan area is the amount of protest that we have here.

Um, I probably, I won't say I took, I take it for granted by no means, but one of my best friends lives in Melbourne, Australia, and he's like, man, you're putting out a lot of work in protest stuff, and I'm like, man, I live in the nation's capital, so everyone that has a grievance comes here. You know, so there's never a shortest, uh, I won't say disgruntled, but basically protest and stuff.

So you have that. But, um, and then, uh, a buddy of mine in LA, he, [00:12:00] he brought it to my attention and it didn't really dawn on me before, but, um, in terms of all of, all of the monuments here in the, in the area, you know, whether it's the Supreme court, whether it's the link in places like that, you know, you're kind of creating.

Content, whether it's with protests and things like that, but a lot of times the backdrops are these historical monuments and, you know, some of the same stuff, you know, he shoots in LA and they may have smaller versions of that. But he says, well, you know, these, these images, you know, don't hit the same from Santa Monica.

So that just, he kind of brought that to my attention that, you know, I am really blessed and fortunate to kind of. Have some of these backdrops because they're, you know, it's all historical and especially in the times in which we're living in [00:13:00] today. So, uh, yeah, 

keith: yeah. And the, uh, where you live, which I've only been to again, oddly and sadly, a couple of times, uh, is, uh, Again, the perfect backdrop if you're going to, like you said, it's the nation's capital, so having a group of, uh, people with their signs and their, and the outrage set against things like the, uh, the national mall or, uh, the Lincoln Memorial or the Supreme Court, these are, uh, again, it's If you're going to paint a backdrop that you wanted to resonate, let's go in and say, Hey, this is what we're upset about.

This is why we're upset because it's, we don't think that it's upholding the values of these things behind us versus more subtle 

Chaz: or subdued 

keith: messages. Cause there's nothing subtle or subdued about this stuff that goes on in DC. 

Chaz: Right, right, right. Everyone's trying to be heard and get their point [00:14:00] across and, you know, so yes, it's, I would agree a thousand percent, you know, I guess in this, this day and age, and I say this very facetiously with, with, with AI coming around, I guess you could drop the Lincoln Memorial in the backdrop of an image from Santa Monica.

keith: Yeah, and that's actually the fear. Is that what you can. And so at the, at the point, again, my, my fear is not Skynet right now. Who knows one day, but, uh, no, like Terminator thing. But prior to that, a much more easy to imagine thing is going to be drop people into situations that they were never were in and that never happened.

And then somebody is going to say, Hey, I saw that. And they're not going to dig at all. They're just going to. Take the easiest route and say It was on such and such, it's gotta be true. And like, that freaks me out. Yeah, 

Chaz: yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And well, yeah, [00:15:00] it, I, I would agree a thousand percent. And then you, you, you're, I mean, because we're kind of living through some of that right now, whether, you know, it becomes the ones that are, that are kind of in the power or whatever, or at least creating the narrative.

They're also the editors of that narrative as well. And that's scary. You know, so to say, you know, someone, you know, where are they getting that information from? If they're getting it from a source where, you know, they can manipulate and edit, if you will, uh, what, what happened, what didn't happen, uh, you know, so you, we, we want to have some, some, some honesty and some truth about it all.

keith: So I know that you, uh, and you mentioned it, but. That in your, at least in your street photography and, and a lot of your protest work that not your sports obviously. 'cause that would just be, uh, again, that would just be like, uh, what am I, what's the word I'm thinking of? Uh, not masochistic. There we go.[00:16:00] 

Trying to shoot sports with the, like it would be, uh, just beating yourself. Right. Correct. Right. So, but what, uh, what brought you into the whole WIKA for range, whether it's range finders in general or WIKA specifically, what, what, what made you go from say, Hey, I've got a, I'm doing great work with my Canon and which is very capable and I was a Canon shooter for years.

But what made you make this, uh, segue into shooting with WIKA? 

Chaz: Well, very, very similar to yours and what you kind of spoke about earlier. Um, Uh, being a graduate of the Artists into the Pittsburgh, you know, that's where I had an opportunity to, uh, be exposed to your Robert Cappas, uh, your Henry, Henry Cartier Bresson, uh, all of these guys.

And, uh, I, for the longest time, well, for sure, even before the M 9s came out, you know, I've always wanted an M 6. And that was because of, you know, Henry Cardi Bresson. I [00:17:00] absolutely love his work. Um, I will tell anybody that becoming exposed to him and his work really kind of changed my life. You know, whether it be, and you kind of hear that with some photographers, but just, you know, Um, the possibilities, you know, to create, uh, but I really kind of, I kind of, how can I say, I kind of, yeah, a little procrastinator to held off on pulling the trigger because it's like, okay, for a long time, it seemed like it was more so a want than a need.

And, you know, speaking about the sports industry, you know, that's not a tool that I can really, really use or depend on in a sporting environment per se. Uh, so it always, you know, try to make that justification. But the fact of the matter is, I just got to a point that, [00:18:00] um, That I want, I just, I, it just was a calling, but the other biggest thing is, is I absolutely love the process and a lot of people don't, you know, you know, you have people that may come from Sony or Fuji or something like that and go into a range finder and, you know, in some instances, either they don't like the process, they, you know, trade the cameras back in for something else because they just don't feel comfortable with the range finders.

And I absolutely love the process. Um, I love the process of, you know, just taking sports away. You know, sure, you can spray scenes and stuff like that, but that's, that's not really photography anyway. But just the, To be able to slow down and, you know, concentrate, uh, slow down and, and create a composition, you know, whether you're on the street and you [00:19:00] see a beautiful, uh, piece of light for 30 minutes or whatever.

And, but yet you just, it's almost like a blank canvas, but at the same time, it's just a blank canvas, but you're patient enough. To wait for maybe something really nice to kind of come through to be put onto that. I love that process and very much like kind of our conversation beforehand before you went live.

I just, you know, being out on the street and being able to photograph, even if it's enough, even if it's in a protest setting. I just love the mindset of being connected myself in the camera and seeing what's inside of those frame lines, what's outside of those frame lines, being patient about what I want to stay in and what I want to come out.

I love that process. 

keith: Didn't agree more on this. Yeah. So again, obviously it's also the only real game in town, but it's just such a beautiful game. [00:20:00] And again, I try to compare it to people that love watches. I'm not a watch guy, but if you're not buying a Rolex because it tells great time, you appreciate something that's kind of handmade and has a certain something to it that you can't necessarily even describe.

Again, I think we all know that was, uh, from a technological standpoint, Sony, Canon, and a whole slew of others seem to have, uh, have, you know, The upper hand, I'm like, but that's not the point. If that's your point, then you've missed, you've missed the whole, uh, the reason for anyone. It's, it's, it's a hard thing to put beyond what you said.

It's just appreciating the process. I feel and slowing down. 

Chaz: Yeah, I, I think it's, um. It's funny. I mean, I think for me, you know, I kind of jokingly say I'm an only child. [00:21:00] So I feel comfortable. I feel all right. I feel comfortable with my own company. So if I and I love people, you know, so to be on the street.

And sometimes to meet people, uh, whether it be that you're, you know, paying somebody a really big compliment and striking up a conversation and just something very lightly. And that's the other thing I love about the like, is, is it's the tool itself is not intimidating. And, um, so whether you're, whether your zone focused on something and, and somebody, and you're in the close quarters, and somebody doesn't realize that you're taking their picture on the subway or something like that.

That's great. For that reason, but then even if you've had a conversation with someone, say, you know, kind of grab, I love your look or whatever, kind of grab just a really quick portrait and, but it's not like you have this big 70 to 70 to 200 lens in their face and thinking, Oh my God, this guy's a professional photographer.

What is it? What are [00:22:00] you going to do? Where are you going to put those pictures and stuff like that? It's just not intimidating at all. And I just love it. And I think people will happen to be maybe a little bit more open. To allow you to do a portrait, and then, you know, obviously, as you probably know, you know, a lot of times, and you can have a, it can be digital for the most part, it looks the same as an M6 or an M4, and then people, first thing, you know, somebody who doesn't know, say, well, is that a film camera?

So they think you're shooting something kind of, you got an antique camera. So they're like, uh, this guy's not going to do anything with this. This is, you know, it may be good quality. It may not be. It's an antique. So, so it just, it tears down so many barriers. Uh, what tears down barriers is opens up conversations.

And I love all of that process. That's, that's a part of the process too. And I think, uh, again, for processes, you know, in so many different aspects Whether it's an [00:23:00] athlete or movies and stuff like that, people, the public typically sees the end product. They don't see the process. They don't see the work that goes on behind the scenes or the work that led up to somebody getting, getting a photograph or what have you, or, or just, you know, becoming a great athlete.

They don't see the work that's been done behind the scenes. I appreciate that journey behind the scene, the process again, again. So, you know, you might have a wonderful image and your viewer is like, ah, that's excellent. And they, they think that you just click the shutter and you were lucky and you got this fantastic, fantastic image.

Whereas you might've had to be patient for 30 minutes or whatever, or, or it might've been, you know, some place in Paris, you know, your city that you see what you. Might have had three or four opportunities for you to photograph it before you became before you capture something that you were really satisfied [00:24:00] with.

So that's a part of the process, but people don't see nor appreciate. 

keith: So funny and hearing what you're saying and finding out we're both, uh, only children and, and, and assuming that we're probably similar in age, like it's possible that you and I were separated at birth and we just didn't know it. Right.

Right. Right. So let me, uh, let me go into your images cause I get people, it's, uh, bless you. And of course, let me play with the technology here and. Find, okay, share screen. So, pardon as I go through a few of these things, which I may actually edit out. Who knows? 

Chaz: That 

keith: sure 

Chaz: was. I saw that last night. 

keith: That's a 

Chaz: Charles De Gaulle.

keith: Yep, exactly. And here we go. Let me move that off there. 

Chaz: Oh boy. 

keith: So, this is awesome. So, uh, tell me about this. 

Chaz: Oh, man, [00:25:00] I absolutely love this image. And, um, this was taken in Cuba in 2020. Uh, so I had just come back from Australia from doing an Australian Open, uh, 2020, and I had planned a trip with two other buddies of mine that are Leica shooters to go to Cuba.

So this was really at kind of the very beginning of COVID. So when I came back from Australia, COVID was just beginning. We didn't really know what was happening. We went to Cuba the last eight to 10 days of February. 2020 and two days after we got back, the world shut down. But, um, I absolutely love this image for a lot of reasons.

Basically, um, my buddies and I, we saw this gentleman along with another gentleman, maybe two or three days earlier, we all, you know, took a few photographs or what have you. But because of my sports background as well. Um, [00:26:00] I think sometimes when we see a lot of people You know, either do other walks and or this guy's going out shooting together, but sometimes you, I kind of don't like the idea, but sometimes you need to shoot all the same thing or you just talk and you don't get much accomplished.

But, uh, before I went to Cuba, I told myself, I promised myself. Always say yeah, because we never know, you know, the opportunities that we'll have. So, uh, like I mentioned, I had an opportunity to see this gentleman two or three days earlier. But, uh, one day after, or one night after, after dinner, I told my two buddies, I said, Hey, why don't after breakfast we just kind of separate and go our own ways?

You know, cause we're all kind of capturing the same thing. And so this day we had, we already had dinner and breakfast. I, um, loved breakfast. I was out shooting. And he saw me and he said, Oh, I recognize you said hello, [00:27:00] said hello. And then he asked me if I don't want to go have a cup of coffee with him or whatever.

And I said no, because I just had breakfast, but I remember what I told myself even before I wanted to always say yes. So he hadn't gotten to the other side of the street yet, and I remember that, and I walked across the street, and I said, yes, I'll have some coffee with you. Uh, long and short, he's a, he's a, um, he's a, at this time, this is 2020, he's about 83, 80, 83, he's a, he's a, um, a writer in Cuba, he gave me one, his name is Gabriel.

And they gave me a book of his, but we literally, we just sat down for about 45 minutes to an hour. I don't, my Spanish is not great, but we just, we just talked. And he enabled me to photograph him as well. And this is one of my favorite, favorite images from there. And it probably wouldn't have [00:28:00] taken place if I hadn't remembered to always say yes.

It's good to remember. Yeah, so when we went to Cuba, the only thing I took was an M because we're kind of going back in time, back in the 50s. I shot an M10 with me, and then also I had a Roleiflex as well. Like a 60 year old Roleiflex that I took with me also. But yeah, I just really, I really, and I have a lot of images of him too, uh, and one of his friends came in as well, and I had a couple of images of the two of them together, but I just, I really, I really appreciate this image a lot.

keith: That's cool. Uh, this is a strong image. So what do we have going on here? 

Chaz: This is, uh, this is right in the, oh man, this is right in the height of, I say, the George Floyd protests here in the states, or probably nationwide, countrywide. [00:29:00] Um, and actually, in all fairness, this is the only image that you, that you have.

That was shot. That was shot with a cannon. That was one of the 1DX Mark II, uh, with an 85mm 1. 2, which I, uh, it's one of my favorite, even one of my favorite lenses to shoot with, even for tennis, because really, this, this kind of a lens that's, it's used a lot in wedding photography, boudoir stuff, and, but I just like it.

1. 2, I love the ability, To just, uh, make the background nice and creamy and kind of blown out. But yes, uh, so this is right. This was right on the opposite side of Lafayette Park, which is the park that runs right in front of the White House. And this is so it's right on the street in between where Black Lives Matter start and where the park starts as well.

So she's right there, but it's such a really, really, really strong image. Um, uh, this, uh, this young lady here, [00:30:00] uh, if I'm not mistaken, she, she's actually a stewardess, but she was, um, with a group of people that they all had, they all had shirts made up like that. And it's probably maybe. 12 people give or take.

But uh, I just kind of selected a nice image, you know, kind of her, her position, her posture along with the, the image on the T-shirt. 

keith: Right. It's great. It's a great shot. 

Chaz: Thank you. 

keith: Ah, oh man. This guy's a character. What's going on here? 

Chaz: I love him. That's my buddy Nate. I actually thought about him today. I may go visit him.

He's, um, he is, he's homeless. Uh, here in D. C. Um, I, I first met him last June, so this is twenty four, so twenty, twenty one, twenty two. I met him on a day, um, and I, I have a, I, I don't know whether to say I enjoy [00:31:00] photographing the homeless. but because I would rather that they not be homeless. But I met him on a day where it was 17 degrees outside and he had everything.

He had everything that he needed. The only thing that he didn't have was boots. Uh, proper shoes that he would rather have different shoes, but he, um, I actually did not have, I wear like a 13 and he wears like maybe a 10, so I couldn't help him with shoes or anything like that, but, um, so I would always check on him and he's, I'm not sure, you said you've been to D.

C., so he's usually in Georgetown, uh, right where Pennsylvania Avenue meets the country, where you go into, to Georgetown, and he has maybe nine shopping carts All connected together and when he's kind of stationary, he keeps this [00:32:00] humongous American flag that covers up all of his belongings on top of the shopping carts.

But this day happened to be in the summer. I didn't expect to see him this day. Uh, this was Memorial Day weekend and I happened to see him. I typically don't cover those, those, uh, those, those festivities, but I went to cover it because, um, I wanted to see here in D. C. they have like, uh, all the motorcycles come through this, they call it Rolling Thunder, but I was a day late, and because I was a day late, I decided, okay, well, I'm here now, it took me forever to get a parking space, so I'll just stay and cover it, but when I was leaving, I ran into him, and I was so happy to see him.

And, uh, so he, he was pushing a couple of carts and everything. And as a matter of fact, the shirt that he has, I never could give him any, any winter clothes or anything like that, but come the spring, I gave him a whole bunch of clothes. 

keith: [00:33:00] I have no idea what is the, yeah. So I, I absolutely apologize for that too loud, uh, the alarm that just went off.

Chaz: Oh, okay. I didn't hear it. Um, but yeah, he, so this spring I gave him a whole bag of clothes and I was so happy to see him because the shirt that he has on the polo shirt is a polo shirt that I gave him is from the four seasons in Maui. So I was so happy to see him with anything. I was just so happy to see him.

Like I said, I check on him all the time. And on Sundays, sometimes I'll buy him, bring him food and stuff like that when it's really hot. I'll give him, uh, get him like a Gatorade and stuff like that. But yeah, I just, there's a beautiful, I absolutely love his hat. The fact that he, you know, he wrapped the flag around his shoulders.

And so I really, I love this picture. This was shot with a Q2 monochrome. 

keith: I get a nice story. I get a nice, nice relationship that you, you've [00:34:00] built with him. Uh, yeah, again, which, yeah, obviously the framing is beautiful and all this evidence, very, very emotive. Uh, what, what's the background on this? 

Chaz: Well, it's, well, I almost say it's almost self explanatory, but it's not quite.

Uh, M10 D, uh, M10 P, I'm sorry. Uh, this shot was just absolutely uh, recently, you say last October, October 26th. This was in an exhibit at the Leica DC store. Um, Leica DC store is the first North American like a store. Uh, and so they had an 11 year anniversary. And what they did, they called it, um, masters and Milestones, and they took 11 photographers out of the Washington metropolitan area, Baltimore.

And, uh, everybody could, well basically we submitted three images. They chose one. This was an image that was chose there, but this was. During, um, [00:35:00] a protest at the beginning of 20, uh, 20, 2023. Uh, at the very beginning, and, uh, uh, Students for Life is, you know, in June, June of 2022, after 50 years, Roe v. Wade got reversed by the Supreme Court, which is where this is in front of, and so the protests started.

They've been, they've been protesting for over 50 years, but, um, I think it's called Something for Life, uh, but yeah, and this is just a younger, younger student. In the organization that belongs to them, but, uh, I really, I love this image too. I mean, granted, yeah, I, the, the, the strange thing with covering the protest and sometimes, you know, if you post something on your stories or Instagram, You know, sometimes your viewership will just automatically think [00:36:00] that what's in the, what's in the frame, it's something that you support and whatnot.

And, but the fact of the matter is, as a journalist, photographer, whatever, you're covering events. You cannot, you know, Always cover events for something you believe in or don't believe in. 

keith: Right. 

Chaz: But regardless you can't deny, you know, if something's strong or not So, but yeah, but yeah, I I really appreciate this image a lot and it's funny.

Um, Sometimes with and we kind of talked about this earlier. Uh, I I have images from here where you know, you have a woman who's pro choice but then you have a um a bishop or a archdiocese or whatever that's on the opposite side. And they're just kind of almost nose to nose. And sometimes they make for powerful images, but when I, when I edit [00:37:00] and I see these images, it breaks my heart because it's like we, I think, you know, in protest people, especially when you have opposing sides, uh, people should be able to respect, you know, to agree to disagree.

But it kind of hurts me when I see people that are really doing it. From a standpoint where they're invading another person's space. So, but yeah, it's one of my favorites as well. 

keith: Yeah, again, we're living here in France. One of the things I appreciate about France in general is that they take to the streets for everything.

Like, there's no, uh, okay, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, They don't suffer the indignity. They're like, okay, we're out there and we're going to do And it's for it's it's organized and it's completely accepted and it is just part of the culture and it was united states Uh, if a protest comes along nobody wants to hear about it They do they [00:38:00] just demonize the messenger as opposed to the message.

They're like, okay As I was asking what's going on? Well, why are these people protesting? They just go, they just want this and they're just rowdy and they're just criminals. No, this, and I'm like, no, let's ask the deep question, which is simply three letters. Why? 

Chaz: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 

keith: And so, yeah, this is stuff like this is where it's super important to have not just the, the media out there, but also to have just citizens with cameras.

Pointing these things at and keeping people honest because again, it's, uh, you hear all sorts of nonsense and then this, this will eventually become a historic record, whether it's ever broadcast or not. So. Yeah, correct. Enough of my pontificating. So please tell me about this. This woman looks really, really, uh, I think the whole crowd was engaged.

Chaz: Uh, I, I, again, um, so I, I'll say this. So even with some of the protest stuff, you know, I've, [00:39:00] you know, I've been fortunate enough to do, you know, a lot of the sports stuff, the fashion stuff, all this stuff, Hollywood stuff. But I also, you know, from this kind of standpoint, I really try to use my gifts and talents or to, um, allow to basically magnify the voices, you know, I, you know, for years, it's always been, you know, that that saying, um, being a voice for the voices.

Well, I kind of. I've kind of rethought that, you know, everybody has a voice, but sometimes it's not heard. Sometimes, um, it, it takes, you know, documentation, photography, what have you, to help magnify those voices. Um, and some, a lot of this stuff is so dear to me. This is from February 11th, last year. Yeah, February 11th, 2023.

Um, this was, uh, so with the Iranian, when the Iranian protests started. [00:40:00] Uh, after the young lady, Masa Imani, um, passed away, or, you know, got brutally beaten in the hands of the morality police, morality police, in, in, in Iran, uh, and this was a protest that took place, uh, February 11th. And it's interesting because, you know, uh, when I started out covering some of those events.

Uh, and I covered them for like 18 months every single weekend, and, um, I really, it's, it's really interesting sometimes how we can find out about making a difference per se, where week in and week out, week in and week out, you know, people say, thank you Chaz for being here. Thank you Chaz for being here.

And obviously being non Iranian, being an African American, but showing up consistently week in and week out, uh, to help, you know, Amplify [00:41:00] their voices, and you know, there's a strong appreciation and part of their, I don't want to necessarily use the word mantra, but essentially, uh, you know, they want to have an opportunity to go back home, you know, for all of the Iranians that are here in the United States or abroad or outside of their own country.

But the interest, the thing that I really talked about this is, um, I had access behind the stage and stuff like that, which was okay. And then, then I was kind of asked maybe to leave a little bit, and I, I, I wasn't sure why, but at the same time, long story short, later on I wound up going back, but, um, but I was in the front, and at some point this almost like a swell of energy took place.

And I didn't understand 100 percent what everything was being said, but, um, I was able to capture some images like this and, you [00:42:00] know, we kind of talk about, you know, the photography aspect, you know, uh, I shoot with the M10, M10 P, uh, but I also like the cues as well. The fixed 28, but in instances like this, uh, you know, you can choose to use the autofocus or not, but, uh, the focal length itself allows me to be this close, but yet not lose anything on the top as far as signage and things of that nature and every piece of information that needs to be here to make the images is right there.

So that was shot with the Q2. As well.

keith: Yeah. Yeah. Again. Looking at, yeah, looking at her, uh, shirt, uh, it looks like this is probably part of the same thing. 

Chaz: Yes, yes. So they probably, I think the first protest was like, maybe like October 5th or 6th, something like that. [00:43:00] And, um, it's still going on now, but, you know, I covered it like for 18 weeks, the, um, Group here, uh, in the much Washington metropolitan area that they would do events every single weekend.

So I pretty much covered them. So, unless I was traveling, I covered every weekend for about 18 months, but this was started out in 1 place that would have started out at freedom Plaza. Which is down towards Pennsylvania Avenue, and then move up, that's the White House behind. And then I think we probably, this day, finished in Georgetown.

Uh, at the front of the Ukrainian Embassy. Oh yeah, but same, same protest, yes. Well, same, same cause, I should say. 

keith: And beautiful stoic shot. Just a totally different feeling than the one before, but no less power. 

Chaz: Yeah, and, and this, this, and the thing that I, same thing, so that was, that was the same day, but it's, [00:44:00] it's, it's interesting because, um, I think my, my buddy in L.

A., you know, he kind of talks about, like, you're not having some of the monuments and, you know, governmental buildings behind this, and, but one thing that, I don't see it a lot, but sometimes we're talking real, real issues here, And sometimes you, you know, you might take someone's photograph, but, you know, people may be smiling.

And I'm thinking, well, this is, this is not like a field trip. You know, this is, you, you're out here for purpose. So, uh, obviously the, the previous image was maybe, I would suspect a teen a bit younger, but not much, but maybe a little bit older, but at the same time, just, uh, A strong, powerful energy and posture.

And that's again, part of the same day. 

keith: Oh, this is the same day. 

Chaz: Yeah, I think so. 

keith: Hey, [00:45:00] this comes like right out of like, uh, it has like a horror movie vibes. 

Chaz: Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, you know, for me, um, I, I prefer, well, I prefer to, so 28s with the Q's or a 35 with the M's, uh, although recently I've started shooting with a 24, which I like as well.

Um, but, uh, the, I think the range finder plus It forces you to kind of to engage and, um, you, you're not going to, unless you're purposefully going for really strong overall crowd shots, um, you know, if you want to have anything with any texture and really emotions, you're, you're forced to, you're cropping is your feet, you need to move in closer.

[00:46:00] And so, uh, typically, you know, just being courteous. Of all the photographers and things like that, you know, I'll see something that I want to capture. I'll, uh, move in and frame it, do my framing with a 35, grab my shots and then kind of, you know, move to the site where other photographers can, can do their thing as well.

Just being respectful of my co workers, my colleagues. 

keith: So right then and there, again, sets the bar fairly high, because I've seen. Situations where it like elbows are fine and what's good. No one's giving up. 

Chaz: Absolutely. 

keith: Once a whole nother job was like, Oh, the, uh, it's cool. They left me the spot, the spot up in there.

The reason that spot was open is because they all knew they had been the only spot that he didn't want to be in. 

Chaz: Absolutely. Yeah. It's yeah. It's in, in, I tell people who. Aren't in these environments, it can be a [00:47:00] scrum at times, you know, you know, obviously everyone wants to get their shot and everything like that.

Everybody wants to do their thing and, you know, I've, I've seen, you know, like I said, scrum scrums for the most part, but it's, it's about being courteous. And then to, I think, you know, some of that courteous should be is when you're working weekend and week out or event in event out. Yeah. With the same group of people, sure, it's a competition, but at the same time, it should be, you know, try to have some type of degree of courtesy and respect for your co workers.

You just don't want to be 

keith: the newbie. 

Chaz: Right, right, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I've been, I've taken that route before too. 

keith: Ah, this is awesome. Let's hear it. What's the story here? 

Chaz: Uh, interesting. So this shop currently is in a competition for Smithsonian magazine. And, um, for the first time, [00:48:00] this was taken last year and this was Easter sunrise service at the Lincoln Memorial.

So, um, They've been doing that for, I want to say 42, 43 years, and I, I just kind of found out about it two years ago, and I thought it was something when I first read about us. Oh, this is because I think so. I forget what year was so doing during covert 2020. they didn't have it. Maybe 2021. they didn't have it.

So 2022 was the first year. And then this was in 2023. and I was reading an article. So I said, Oh, I like to cover that. You know, lo and behold, I went last year, I will, I'm thinking about, I'm pretty sure I'll wind up doing it next Sunday. Um, but again, I, I, I really, there's a, there's a power to me. There's a power in this image with you have, you know, all these [00:49:00] people, you have this iconic memorial in the background, but then you have a lady with presence and soul and, uh, the, the hat, the veil, Which it's, you know, signifies, you know, maybe being at church.

Uh, so yeah, I really enjoyed this, this image. 

keith: There's a definite power in this woman, but again, it's, again, I love the angle you chose. You got the hero, the hero angle going on and putting this woman up on, uh, on a pedestal, like the power in, in the face. Yet the, uh, the softness of her clothing and the hat and whatnot is, and.

Again, the people in the background, again, specifically in the angle that you chose, just really, really set this up. 

Chaz: Well, and, and, and she's almost not really, there's not, I have maybe two other images of her, uh, some with a little direct, I like the fact that there's no direct eye contact with [00:50:00] her. Her 

keith: looking past you is awesome.

Chaz: But, but at the same time, so if you, if you find this on my page, um, I initially, and sometimes I like to curate images because I kind of, I'm a huge movie buff. So I always see things kind of, I like to think maybe I like this. I like to see things cinematically sometimes, and I also sometimes when I post an image, I may have a song in my mind or a piece of song in my mind that I want to Kind of curate with the image and initially I thought of maybe like a Mahalia Jackson song, uh, older, uh, gospel singer, but then when I thought about it, and I forget the name, but it is attached to the image.

It's, um, I call it, uh, Stolen Love of a Woman is what I call it on IG, but the piece of music that I use, [00:51:00] uh, Aretha Franklin, she's only sang opera one time, and, but the way that she does it is so powerful. I've used that. With, with this just a little like 30 seconds or so, 45 seconds of a piece of music that Aretha Franklin was singing, um, classical music that's attached to that, that I just really, it just really, it has a really big bravado and a lot of soul.

I 

keith: have to check that out. I never, never heard. I can, I can, I'm going to try my best to picture that and hear that in my head, but I actually have to hear it because that sounds like a great combo. Let's see. Okay. What do we have here? 

Chaz: Uh, I call this, uh, American woman and, um, uh, I love this. Every, everything has a story.

Um, I, so [00:52:00] I was on my way to the state department and DC to cover an event oddly enough. I was a day early, but this was in Old Town, Old Town, Virginia, and I was on my way there. I stopped to get some coffee, but I was going to the State Department, and I'm, I'm heading, I'm heading east. I'm sorry. Yes, I'm heading east.

I'm in my car at a stop sign in a residential area. I'm heading east. She's walking west. And at the stop sign, I see her and I'm like, wow, this lady is really cool. I like her energy, which, you know, her whole, her whole presence. So there was not, there wasn't a car behind me. So I waited and as she. Got closer to me.

I rolled down my passenger window and I just paid her a compliment. I said, I love, love, love your look. I love your hair. And she was like, Oh, thank you. Thank you. I just meant to say, I'm a photographer. I would love to take your portrait. [00:53:00] And she said, okay. And no sooner than she said, okay, I made a left hand, left hand turn at the stop sign, parked my car, grabbed my camera off my, my camera off the passenger seat.

And I was able to do some stuff. And this is literally in the middle of the street. Love it. 

keith: Love it.

There you go. Cool. 

Chaz: Uh, oh, man. Yeah, I call this family portrait, and this was, uh, last year. Man, time, time has really flown by, but this, this image, uh, this was right at the beginning. There was a thing, they had the Lincoln Memorial called, um, it was the 60th anniversary of March on Washington. So, it, it grew larger.

But, this young lady here, um, this, This is her mother on the on her left hand side and maybe her brother, but, uh, you know, in the sad thing, even [00:54:00] with those pictures, the one picture that I shot and I said that it was at the beginning of all the George Floyd stuff, and that was right in the middle of COVID.

And for me personally, um. Initially, I didn't go out and I didn't go out because of COVID, but, um, when, when things just started to escalate to the degree that they did, you know, I, I felt a couple of different things. I felt a that this was history that, that I wanted to have the opportunity to document, but at the same time, watching the news.

I felt my energy or just being disappointed being mad. Um, I can recall my dad, you know, his energy and how he felt with the assassination of Martin Luther King. Yeah. Bobby Kennedy, Malcolm X and stuff like that. I just kind of remember his energy and how he felt. And I just thought to myself, my God, this is like 53, 52 [00:55:00] years ago, I'm feeling the same way my father felt.

And, you know, again, unfortunately, not a great deal has changed and we're still dealing with some of these same issues. So that really prompted me to go out and start covering, especially the George Floyd stuff. But this, again, so her. You know, her mom probably haven't been at the original March on Washington 60 years ago, and now she's there for the anniversary.

So that, that's what I call that family portrait. 

keith: Beautiful. And you have 

Chaz: the monument in the background, that's a reflecting pool and everything.

keith: And who's this? 

Chaz: Oh, I just, I just started a project last November in Mexico, and um, so I was in Mexico for a month, but I was in a place called, um, Paje Nicolata, which is on the Pacific coast, [00:56:00] and it's south of Acapulco, north of a place called Puerto Estendido. And I was, I was there for 10 days, but I'm going to go back later this year for, I'll probably be there for three weeks to a month, but, um, there's in Mexico, a lot of people, some people don't know the history per se, but, um, Mexico, they have a, there's a large African diaspora.

In mexico that a lot of people don't know about the africans have been in mexico since the early 1500 15th century And the the spanish brought them from africa to veracruz. That's the port in which they all went into Uh, in fact mexico's second president was of african descent 

keith: Really was 

Chaz: a gentleman, but yeah a gentleman by the name of um, vicente guerrera And when I found this out, because again, what we talked about before, [00:57:00] you know, so much of narratives, it's edited, it's taken out, you don't know about stuff.

Sometimes we can see things and feel like, oh my God, how did I not know about this? Oh my God, I didn't talk to you because It just was edited out like it never happened. So I went to start a project there to kind of give that community voice to bring, make, give a larger awareness. And so you have the African, Mexican Africans, but also the Aztecs.

Or the indigenous, uh, they, they basically have suffered the same lack of representation. So this is like my second day there. And, um, I really love this image for a lot of reasons. Uh, it's like a, more so it's not necessarily a lake, more so like almost a reservoir. There's a kind of a water place close by, but, um, Lots of families that were out on a Saturday, on a Sunday with their family.

And this woman here was there with her, uh, [00:58:00] her son, son in law, son and daughter in law, I'm sorry, please forgive me, grandson. And then the other, I have another image, but I don't know if I sent it to you or not, but another, um, the other grandmother. Uh, but this image, I, I didn't know it at the time, but once I saw it, I really kind of fell in love with it.

And that's because I'm a really big fan of Mary Ellen Marks. And she's, she has an image of an Indian girl that she shot, and I don't think it was in, it's in India, but I don't, uh, it's in a body of water too, but this image kind of reminds me of that. And I love it a lot. She just has such strong high cheekbones and stuff, but I just love this portrait.

Same thing, this is in Quahiniqua, Lapland. Um, both, uh, Afro, of Afro Mexican descent. Um, the gentleman, gentleman on the, um, no, [00:59:00] not brothers at all. Um, the gentleman on the right, uh, initially he was a little, He was, uh, a little reserved in terms of allowing me to take an image of him, take his portrait. And, um, I was, you know, with a fixer and stuff like that, but he was still a little apprehensive.

And then once, once this gentleman on the left started walking down, uh, they saw they obviously knew each other for a long time. He felt a heck of a lot more comfortable, so he allowed, I mean, he just opened up with personality and everything, but, uh, I have wonderful images of both of them singularly, but I, I just really like this one of them together as well.

keith: Yeah, I particularly like the way that he's looking over his friend. That's a great shot. 

Chaz: And then there's a couple of others where it's just the opposite way. Oh my goodness, this is also dear to my heart. Um, this is Miss Selena. Um, she's, she's, uh, [01:00:00] this is right in this, in a big marketplace of, um, Guajinico Lato.

And, um, some, well, I wouldn't say the inspiration, so probably when I started doing my research, um, of photographers that have done work there and things like that, um, you know, basically people from, oddly enough, not a, I hadn't seen a lot of stuff from Mexican photographers, but some, uh, one lady from, I want to say, uh, Finland, I think?

And, um, he did some stuff here, but then I kind of came across. A gentleman, and I'll give you his name afterwards, but if you forget, named Tony Gleaton, um, African American photographer, uh, from Detroit, well, born in Detroit, but grew up in, grew up in, um, in Los Angeles. [01:01:00] And he had gone there, like, back in the, he passed away in 2005, but he has done a lot of work in the, in the Guajirí Nicolápe.

And, um, and basically, again, the African diaspora that's in Mexico. In his book, he has a photograph of this woman. I, I have the book, and I showed it to her. So I photographed this image. 38 years after he photographed her. 

keith: Wow, really? 

Chaz: And I, and I think I, not that I don't know whether to say I don't necessarily take pride, but just it's, I'm, I'm, I'm maybe either the second or the third african american photographer that's been to this place to photograph.

But she's been in this, she carries, um, it's a huge marketplace, but she does poultry. And, you know, stuff like that. And she's been there for at least [01:02:00] 38 years. She's still there. That's her business. 

keith: So this is going to sound odd because I can see all the reasons why it shouldn't. But for some strange reason, as soon as this image came up, I thought of the, uh, the image, uh, American Gothic.

You remember American Gothic by, uh, I got it. Gordon Parks, Gordon Parks. I'm like, I can't believe Oh, the lady. 

Chaz: Okay, I saw you. Okay. I, I just wanted to make sure. So you're talking about the one of the cleaning lady with the mot in from the American flag. Yeah. Again, 

keith: to me, again, one of my f again, favorite images of all time.

I just love that Sean. I love Gordon. But, and I can't exactly even tell you why other than the, uh, the perspective. 'cause obviously that was a vertical, this is horizontal. There's, there's a lot of differences, obviously. But there's something, something here that as soon as I saw it. American Gothic popped into my head.

You know what? 

Chaz: I've never seen that. But it's interesting that you bring that perspective. And you're right. That's a vertical. This is a horizontal. I think what [01:03:00] you may see because it's what jumps out to me is the power and the posture in both ladies and both women. There's a degree of strength and dignity in both women.

keith: Mm hmm. 

Chaz: So maybe that's what it's because, because that is in, in the one of Gordon is, I forget what building it was in, but it was taken in Washington, it was taken in one of the government buildings in Washington, D. C. if I'm not mistaken. But there's an American flag behind it. She was, uh, uh, one of the cleaning ladies.

She has a mop in her hand, it's, it's where you see a portion of the flag, but it's the posture. And it. The image, and I'll send it to you when we get through, but the image of Tony Gleaton of her 38 years ago is very similar in terms of posture. Um, she's very, very, very similar in posture. I just essentially try to recreate it.

I did show her. Show her the book that it was in and stuff like that. So it was really, really, uh, [01:04:00] interesting moment because it's the guy like I said, so I stayed at an Airbnb. The guy that was, uh, the host there was kind of my, um, fixer as well. And we were at lunch one day and I showed him the book. And so he was going through the book, flipping through it.

And when he came to her photograph, he said, Oh, that's Miss Selena. And I said, and I looked at the, I said, You know her and he's like, yeah, he says this is this. I'm like not me She doesn't really look old in the other image, but I'm like, she's still she's still here. She'd say yeah I think but you took like a day later.

We went to see her. 

keith: Wow. That's awesome. But yeah, it's a it's a great image And it was Gordon Parsley. What are my favorite? I can hate anybody who If Gordon Parks isn't one of your favorite photographers, you just don't know who Gordon Parks is. 

Chaz: Yeah, such a renaissance man, too, in terms of kind of what we were talking about earlier about, uh, maybe not necessarily, maybe not so much not being in [01:05:00] staff, but at least giving yourself the flexibility to do multiple, multiple mediums, if you will.

And, and he, he just did that so well. 

keith: You did. Yeah, one of my, again, the majority of pictures in my house are due to nepotism and self aggrandizement are mine, but so there I have a few from some friends over the years. And one, uh, one of my friends back in Arizona had started a project where he was going around photographing, uh, again, living American, great American photographers.

And so he had a chance to photograph Gordon and, uh, so he had this absolutely beautiful portrait of Gordon. So my, I was just like, wow, that is amazing. So he signed it and, uh, and gave it to me. So it's like one of my most prized photographs. I love that man. Excellent. Excellent. And now, of course, unfortunately, but nobody else can take a new one.

Yeah. Makes it worse. But, uh, but yeah, it was just, it wasn't even just, it would have been cool if it had been a snapshot on a, some disposable [01:06:00] thing, I would have been cool with that, but it was a really masterful, uh, portrait of just a master photographer. So, and so yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll get my fan boy to the parks right now.

We'll move on. 

Chaz: Right. Excellent. 

keith: All right. So what's going on here?

Chaz: So. These are, you know, I'll be really honest and transparent. This was pretty much, uh, even the start of this project was really, uh, I had a couple emotional days, uh, for, for a multitude of reasons. Number one, Um, I'm very grateful when I'm given the opportunity to, to partake in, you know, the thing that I love, you know, whether it's, um, you know, working on a project or, you know, having the access to particular events.

I don't take any of it for granted, and I'm really grateful. [01:07:00] Um, the one thing with, um, Tony Gleaton, he, and there's, there's maybe four interviews with him, but the one thing that he said about, He said, it's hard to find, it's hard to get to, and it's hard to live in. Those three things stuck with me, and I experienced all three of those things.

Uh, the hard to get to, or the hard to live in portion, um, that's what this image reminds me of, and other images as well. But, um, we picked these just. I'm not sure whether to call it a couple because I don't know if it's a couple or not, but, um, we picked them up, they were, they were walking, uh, so, where we wanted to take, so this was in November, so right now, every single [01:08:00] day, the weather there is always 90 and above, always, it's always 90 and above, but we saw them walking, so we picked them up, Uh, they got, they were on, they were on their way to pick up wood to take back to their home to, then at night it probably gets really, really cool to either heat their home or use for cooking and stuff like that.

So they were on their way to get wood. And so this was after they, they got out of the, the truck and we stopped to let them out. Um, Victor was chatting with them or talking to her, but I love this image so much. To me. A lot of reasons. It's it's kind of a dark image. I think to you can just just to see his eyes peeking out from underneath this hat from the shadows.

But you can tell just by their skin that they've been exposed to sun for a long, long time and [01:09:00] harsh sun at that. So that's the hard living. But then as we left the thing that just really just resonated in my mind is like, number one, I don't know how far they had walked prior to us picking them up. in the heat, coupled with the fact that after they get their wood, I don't know how far they have to walk to get back home.

And that just all resonated with me so much. And so it really just This really makes me think of the hard, hard to live in, but people do what they have to do. 

keith: Yeah, it's human. It's, it's the, uh, what's called the whole, one of the, the basis of life that let's go to life just continues on and we'll do what it has to do in order to stay alive.

So yeah, crazy. So when you sent this over, I was looking at this And not a, it looks almost like a cactus and again, haven't lived in Arizona for a long time. And I'm not sure if it is, I'm [01:10:00] dying to hear what the story is behind this. 

Chaz: Well, and so again, part of those three things, hard to, hard to, hard to find.

Hard to live in, and hard to get to, hard to find, hard to live in. This also depicts that too, for a portion of it. And there's a couple things I like. So, obviously you have the barbed wire fence, you know, keeping livestock and stuff like that in. And I, I want to say, I'm pretty sure, This is like some wood that the barbed wire fence is either going through or part of, but just a little bit, you got the sun peeking down, but also you get a little, there's some spiderwebs through here that you can kind of see, 

keith: but the 

Chaz: thing that I like, so again, this is kind of harshness as well, that harsh living, but the thing that I really do like about this image is right in the bottom, there's some blades of grass to kind of highlight it.

And for [01:11:00] me, that kind of almost signifies just, just a slither, a slither of hope, a little bit of light. So, I just, that's the one thing that I really appreciate about it. Yeah, as you are. All of it's really harsh. 

keith: Yeah, again, this is definitely one of those things that you can sit there and as you're talking, I see everything you're saying.

I can totally see, again, how I love interpretive images. I love images that, again, make you ask questions because I think a lot of times questions are more interesting than answers. Answers are typically whatever, like everybody's got an answer, but whether it's good or not, but very few people actually ask good questions.

Chaz: Well, I'll say this too. The thing that I really appreciate is, although I can, I mean, we can always, sometimes we can, you know, for various reasons, which one, which I don't think I'm the best of the editors, because sometimes, [01:12:00] especially with something like this, you, you kind of can be close to the subject, you can be close to the experience for the moment.

So when you're putting together 20 images for an exhibit, a contest or anything like that. Sometimes, less is more, uh, sometimes, um, you, if they give you, you know, 20 images or whatever, it doesn't mean you have to use, utilize all 20. The fact of the matter is you can add, excuse me, have two images that you could tell a story in 18, you want to put two out of those, and then that weakens the story.

Uh, and then just being too close to, to images and experiences and moments. You kind of, uh, I guess it's like, you know, maybe, you know, having the discipline to kind of say, okay, this is the one, maybe sometimes the images will stand alone versus they may make a story weak, but the thing that I get that I really, really appreciate is sometimes, [01:13:00] What other people see or what they get and it's not what I got or saw or continue to get until it's brought out or pointed to me, pointed out to me, you know, I really appreciate that.

And now there's a, there's another like a shooter in Switzerland, um, that he's always, we, we kind of go back and forth, but sometimes the things that he sees, uh, I don't, and I just really appreciate. You know, being, you know, having my, my vision opened up to somebody else's perspective. 

keith: It's good when somebody can, when somebody gives you an opinion or goes into something with a bit more depth versus the, I like it or I don't like it, or it's, that's cool.

Or which is, which is fine for the masses, but to, it's nice when you can get somebody who's going to help you again, sometimes find things in your, something like this, it's interpretive. It can be interpreted and people interpret it in different [01:14:00] ways. But again, it's the, the idea that was, we all see and read our own stories into the things that we look at.

Uh, yeah, this, this looks like it goes right back to your, uh, yeah. 

Chaz: And this was at the end of the day. And this is probably, um. You know, I should say, obviously, for sure, there's paved roads and things of that nature, but at the same time, um, you can kind of, you're really stepping out on faith, too, because even with a fixer, you know, and sharing certain things with me, or wanting to take me to see certain things, and, you know, you kind of go off of a paved road.

And then all of a sudden you're on a dirt road, and you know, you may be on a dirt road for several miles, and you're like, oh, you know, just praying, Lord, let, let, let there be, uh, something pleasant on the other end, you know, I'm not being taken to some ceremony or something [01:15:00] like that, but this was actually at the end of the day.

And I just really felt in love that the light here was so wonderful. We actually, um, were traveling in a pickup truck in the same direction as he's going in. So even, um, when we approached him from behind, I already knew what the light looked like. I just thought it was absolutely gorgeous. And I just asked him, The pullover, a pull up, pull over, go past him.

And I got out and was, had the opportunity to take some frames as him on the donkey coming towards me and what I thought was really a really gorgeous light at the end of the day. And, you know, we had the opportunity to chat with him a little bit. Kind of told him what I was doing and things like that.

Well, you know, why is this, as they say, why is this gringo want to take my picture or whatever? But yeah, I just, I just, I love this image too. There's just so many things there that, that I captured that I, just the experiences again, which is what I'm talking about. The [01:16:00] whole experience of just, um, again, for me to kind of see something that's maybe Inspired me, you know, that'd be some of the work that I've seen in my research, but then seeing the work that Tony Gleason had done and then actually having the.

Not taking for granted that I'm now experiencing something that has been giving me inspiration, and I'm witnessing it with my own eyes, you know. Uh, as an only child of yourself, you know, I probably, I, I read a lot and stuff like that, but, you know, as I got older, it's just like, okay, I don't want to experience certain things vicariously through reading.

I want to experience them firsthand, so I'm always extremely grateful to have that experience and appreciation to experience things firsthand. 

keith: Very good.

Chaz: Uh, this, this is, um, again, this, so on the outside, this [01:17:00] is, is this young man where he, this is inside of a hut, like an African style hut, and it is in Mexico, and it's on a place where the state of Oaxaca and Guerrero meet. Okay. So it's about halfway, and, um, there's a community there, and. Inside of this, this hut, it's um, and I'm using that term for the lack of a better term too, but it is, I want to say his great great grandmother, she just turned 101 years old in February, last month.

So, this is a hammock, but you Right underneath his elbow. This is a bed that she sleeps in so she sleeps in in here And there's just a community of family members that are all within there but we were inside just taking some images and stuff and you know, he kind of took some images of [01:18:00] him prior to but Just his his eyes just popping out and you know, I just really love this portrait.

keith: That's beautiful And, 

Chaz: uh, 

keith: obviously not his family, but Arabia. 

Chaz: No, no, uh, again, I tell you, um, I just feel so blessed. I mean, because even with the people that I met, what I was shared with and the people that allowed me into their space. And this is one thing, even in doing maybe not so much. Street, street photography, but for sure, sometimes the protest stuff, and especially if it's something that I've been covering, uh, consistently, and I start to see some of the same people again over and over, I'm always really [01:19:00] appreciative for people trusting in their space, because that's essentially what we're doing.

You know, you're kind of going to someone's space and, you know, whether someone is, um, you know, just, just. We're just in their space, you know, you didn't maybe in the protest, they want to be focused, but you got a camera in their face and stuff like that, you know, especially if you're shooting 35. You're, you're literally in the space versus shooting a 200 or something like that.

But I was introduced to this family and, um, the young girl, she's a daddy's girl. This young man on the right, he's definitely a mama's boy. The gentleman, the little boy in the middle, I just love him. I told him there's some, he has an old, there's something about this little kid. He has an old soul and there's a, there's a portrait that I have of him that just within his eyes, maybe a little bit with his head.

That it really reminds me of a young [01:20:00] Martin Luther King, and I shared that with his parents, but he just has such an old soul, but the young girl, he's what they call their miracle. She was a preemie, and the dad said that when she was born, you could pretty much fit her in the palm of your hand. Oh, but they're, they're Um, also same area there in the Oaxaca area, probably, I don't know, maybe two, three tenths of a mile right behind them within walking distance is the ocean, uh, and stuff like that.

So, and actually, on the opposite side, I don't think I included any images of them. He has a brother that lives directly across the street from them. And, um, uh, I had an opportunity to photograph them and even that story was really, really, um, [01:21:00] uh, it's, and I didn't, I didn't know the whole story prior to, to, to leaving, but anyway, just, just the, the, the great.

When there's some people allowing you into their home, but the thing is, like I said, I'll go back in November and I'll probably go three weeks, three to four weeks. But the 1 thing that I really appreciate, and even having kept in touch with some of these people via social media, and, you know, you're welcome, but you're welcome here anytime.

I'm sure you're welcome here anytime. So. The ability to earn people's trust is priceless and have an opportunity to go back and maybe, you know, have Create other type of content and stuff as well and then to even before starting the project. My thing is that I Because it happens so many so many different times whether it's for photography or with you know video [01:22:00] and stuff like that You know people medias have a tendency to go into communities and take And never give back or never go back.

And not to say that you always have to go back, but in some way, shape, or form, you know, give back. And I promised myself that that's not something that I would do. So, uh, there's, there's some needs there. And, uh, I'll, I'll definitely be back there to kind of formulate that, those relationships even further.

keith: Old school. 

Chaz: Okay. What we're dealing with right now. Mm-Hmm. , the, the Israel Palestinian stuff. And, um, this is from front of Union Station, so Yeah. Cognize. 

keith: Yeah. 

Chaz: Yeah. Oddly enough, um, uh, like I said, the Iranian stuff, you know, like 18 months straight. And then you had, again, we, we DC we just, we all, there's always something

So even the day before the Israel [01:23:00] Palestine. Um, I was in front of the Supreme Court doing, doing something for the Roe v. Wade and, and, uh, pro life, pro choice issues. And that Sunday, you know, in my mind, I really was planning on taking it easy. And then when the news broke, I had to go out and then I've been out covering at recess also.

But this was one of the. One of their many events this was maybe a couple about a month and a month and a half ago but in front of union station one morning and that was this was shabbat of 24. I invested in 24 uh right at the right at the uh the end of last year. Um my thing is since we went with street photography I think and I've been possibly Yes, 35 is pretty normal, and then obviously, if you're doing a lot of zone focus and stuff like that, 28 is great too, but [01:24:00] I think in terms of maybe style, if you will.

And maybe from a composition standpoint, just slightly, uh, set yourself aside from everything else that's being done out there. Uh, I wanted to start trying to create more stuff with a 24. And that's, you know, doing stuff wide like this or being even closer. And, you know, being intimate, but still being wide enough that you can still capture detail and information that still supports your story behind the scenes, you know, in the background.

So

That's what, yeah, that's what the 24 and I'm really close, but, you know, you can capture quite a bit. 

keith: Yeah, it's funny. 

Chaz: If 

keith: you use them well, which you do, uh, they're great, which they can be. Yeah, they can be tricky in the beginning. 

Chaz: Yeah, because well and see this is the thing and you know [01:25:00] I'll tell you kind of like with when you started out and I told you about the other gentleman With the podcast but one thing kind of to my surprise And and payment even mentioned it a little bit that He said he was a bit of an introvert, and I sometimes, that kind of surprises me sometimes when I hear photographers say that, and maybe because I'm not, but at the same time, it's, um, you know, people, you know, I understand, especially from a street standpoint, you know, people not necessarily being overly comfortable with going up to a complete stranger or maybe talking to a stranger or going up to a stranger and being really close and intimate with them, um.

Um, and there's a degree of comfort that has to happen there, but I'm still a little surprised, but, um, yeah, with a 24, it's so wide, you can kind of, unless you have a large crowd and stuff like that, [01:26:00] you're, you have like a lot of, you can have a lot of spaces not being utilized properly, if that makes sense, you know, and I wouldn't, I don't know if I want to call it dead space, but it's just not.

Functioning space, if you will, or functioning information. So you do need to be comfortable with being closer and stuff like 

keith: that.

That is what we have on what you sent. Of course. I want to throw in, uh, some added bonus material. 

Chaz: Oh, so you, you were able to get it to the 

keith: course I was, I don't give up. I'm not to get, I'm not a quitter. All right. Let's uh, Let's see. Okay. There we go. All right. This is so last, last week I, uh, introduced people to LFI, which is, um, the, uh, like, uh, [01:27:00] Actually, uh, probably I'm forgetting what the F stands for.

Chaz: Like, well, it's photography, but with an F. Yeah. Instead of with a P. 

keith: Yeah. So. Like 

Chaz: Photography International. 

keith: Which is, uh, again, it's an interesting site, one, because just a lot of beautiful photography, because they curate it. And people don't actually, unlike the name would suggest, you don't have to have it like it to shoot it.

But it's good to get your. Images, uh, accepted is, uh, is, is a thing it's, uh, again, you're going up against a bunch of people. So you have an awful lot of stuff up here. That's awesome. So thank you. So, uh, for anybody that wants to go, I suggest you get an LFI online and then look up Chaz Neal. And then of course, while you're there, look around and just be.

Uh, wowed by how much good work there is in, in different genres. So it's not all street photography. They've got portraits, [01:28:00] they've got all sorts of stuff, but obviously people that are tuning in here will be particularly interested in street photography, so you can spend days. 

Chaz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

keith: And then on top of that, I want to go to.

Your website, which has, again, people need to go here because we've been talking about your documentary work and street photography, but there's just so much more to you, uh, where again, uh, event work is usually something I could care less about because I've shot so much in my lifetime, right? You, you do really, really beautiful work.

Where's this one? It's not fashion. I was like entertainment. I'm like, I seriously, entertainment is one of the things like that, but you do some, again, this is some, some quality work here and you, like, they're not posing for you specifically, this is a grab thing and you grabbed beautifully. There's a lot of, again, it's, it's, [01:29:00] it's really nice.

Okay. I, uh, I can appreciate the, uh, again, the effort and the results. So 

Chaz: thank you. Thank you. 

keith: Yeah. So yeah, you de you definitely fall into the category of strictly photographer, not categorized. So . Yeah. So your, your category is not categorized. That's great. So let me, uh, put this down. Yeah. So again, outstanding.

Thank you so much for, uh, again, for gracing me with your, uh, with your presence and I just say, and honoring me with, uh, saying, okay, I've seen what you've done. And because of that, I don't want to come on. 

Chaz: No, you know what? I want to, I'll piggyback off of something you mentioned. So even with the. LFI, you mentioned last week, and I agree, and maybe again, this is a nerd in me, the photography nerd, the like a nerd in me, or whatever, but, you know, with LFI, because there's so, [01:30:00] well, there's, you know, multiple categories, but you have work coming in from all over the place, but the fact of the matter is, you, you have the ability to, to look at stuff with, uh, from a category standpoint, particular cameras, particular lenses, Uh, camera lens combinations, things of that nature, uh, whether you're looking at it for getting inspiration as well.

Uh, so I, you know, again, it could be a, a wonderful, I guess, source of inspiration for, from a different, different perspective. 

keith: I agree 100%. So again, I've taken up a ton of your time again. I wish I feel again. I would love to be doing this in person, but this is again this idea of being able to again reach out across the world and and meet people that whose work I respect and we can just sit there and just geek out on cameras and.

Images I love, but it's to hear the backstories on, on not just how they're created, [01:31:00] but what they represent is, uh, is again, just, I love, so like, thank you for indulging me. 

Chaz: Thank you again. I appreciate the opportunity. To chat with you. It's something that I could, you know, where, because of the time difference, you could be having a glass of vino and I'm drinking a couple cups of coffee, but at the same time, just have the conversation.

But I appreciate your platform. What I will do, and I'm not sure how you. Are choosing if it's just people that you follow, but I will maybe afterwards. I'll send you some names that you can go look at their work and see if you're interested in what they do. And then, um, you know, you can reach out as well.

And then this is some interesting people that I think you will really, really appreciate some of the work to 

keith: and again, this is. It's kind of why I wake up in the morning to learn new things. So there's so many people out there that do amazing work that, that somebody will go, how do you not know about this person and then [01:32:00] not know about somebody else?

So it's just, it's a never ending thing. And I don't ever want to stop again, in taking new information and finding new people. I'm going to say, if you find yourself traveling abroad and you're having to be swinging through Paris, which is a great place to swing through, you have to look me up. 

Chaz: I will do such a granted.

I haven't been there since 2019. I think. Yes. 2019 is the last time I'm in Paris. So you're always coming? Yeah, I would always be. Yeah, I would always come for the French Open. So I'm, I'm due and uh, I have a friend that lives in Paris that I met that we met in Cuba. So I have reason to come. You're one of those reasons as well.

And we can hit the streets and do some stuff. So I'll accept the invitation. I thank you so much, man. I appreciate you. Uh, I look forward to, to watching you and more of your talks or your thank you 

keith: so much. Thank you. Well, enjoy the [01:33:00] rest of your day. Same. You too. Thanks a lot. 

Chaz: Thank you so much. All right.

Bye bye. Bye.