Spirit Babies and Mediumship with Dr. Maria Rothenburger

In this episode of Closer to Venus, host Johnny Burke interviews Dr. Maria Rothenburger, a fertility therapist and host of the Reluctant Medium Podcast. Dr. Maria shares her journey from traditional psychotherapy to becoming a psychic medium who communicates with spirit babies. The discussion delves into higher consciousness, the in-between space, spirit babies, star seeds, and various modalities for connecting with the other side. Dr. Maria also talks about her reluctance in embracing her abilities and the impact of her mediumship on her clients. Additional topics include past life regression, the role of angels and ancestors, and the significance of spreading love and connection in today's world.

00:00 Introduction to Dr. Maria Rothenburger

00:38 Journey into Psychic Mediumship

02:20 Spirit Babies and Their Messages

04:49 The Reluctant Medium Podcast

06:36 Understanding Spirit Babies and Star Seeds

10:15 The In-Between Space and Pre-Birth Planning

15:45 Exploring Various Modalities

18:29 Exploring Past Life Regression

19:34 The Role of Curiosity and Humility in Mediumship

20:17 Personal Past Life Experiences

26:08 Discovering Connections Across Lifetimes

27:01 The Healing Power of Past Life Memories

33:08 Mindfulness and Post-Traumatic Growth

36:12 The Future of Spiritual Ascension

37:45 Final Thoughts and Contact Information

https://closertovenus.com/episode/205-sprit-babies-and-mediumship-with-dr-maria-rothenburger/

https://www.drmariarothenburger.com/

@thereluctantmedium

Transcript

Johnny Burke: Welcome to Closer to Venus. I'm Johnny Burke, and today's guest is Dr. Maria Rothenburger. She is a fertility therapist, intuitive crystal healer, and host of the Reluctant Medium Podcast. She's also a left-brain psychotherapist who fell into psychic mediumship, specifically with spirit babies. In this episode, we'll discuss spirit babies, higher consciousness and various modalities for connecting to the other side. Dr. Maria, welcome to the program.

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Hey Johnny, thanks so much for inviting me. I appreciate it.

Johnny Burke: Excellent. You are very welcome. So you are a fertility therapist, so how does a fertility therapist fall into psychic mediumship?

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Yeah, I call it I went rogue. yeah, I was doing traditional psychotherapy, grief work with a client who lost her twins in utero. And I became aware of these babies. They just came to my awareness and I, being a psychotherapist, I self-diagnosed. I thought I was going psychotic for no apparent reason, and I just ignored it. I kept seeing her, I kept doing the therapy and I just ignored what was happening. I went home and, on the way home they were messing with my radio, telling me they're going to do this. And they stopped on a podcast where the host just happened to say, get over yourself. And I just kept ignoring and I just went home and swore I would never say anything to this person about anything about that. And they kept messing with things in my house and finally, I saw this person again and I asked her about her level of openness, and she said she was open and I told her what was going on. I said, I have no reference for this. I've never done this before in my life. I've never grown up as a kid who saw things or nothing like that. I was always sensitive, but never could claim that I saw things that other people saw , didn't hear things nothing like that that I can recall. 

 Then I started telling her what they were saying to me. " We are trying to get in the house. We're ringing the doorbell in the middle of the night. Can you let us in? pictures falling off the wall. They're trying to get the attention of their parents. They're telling me about certain activities that these their parents do. They described a memorial and what was supposed to be the nursery and some bears that were sitting on a shelf and. That's exactly how it looked. They had these molly bears that were weight, they have the weight of the babies when they were born. things I could not have possibly known these babies were telling me. So, I did nothing with this information for six years.

Johnny Burke: Delayed disclosure. Wow.

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Gosh, for sure I thought that I would be driven out of my job as a psychotherapist. I just never said a thing, until I realized that it could be helpful through following other people's work, I realized that  I can't call it healing legally, but that it could be helpful and supportive for people.

 So I started looking into getting some training. I did some general mediumship training to see if this is even a thing. Turns out it is, and it is for me. And I began to dive even deeper, and I ended up getting trained in Spirit baby mediumship specifically, and away I went. I quote unquote, came out as as a psychic medium for spirit babies specifically. And I do other mediumship work too, but that's where it all started for me. Long-winded answer to a simple question.

Johnny Burke: I like it. It's great. So you came out of the empathic or intuitive closet and there's actually training for spirit baby mediumship. I didn't know that. I knew it was a thing. Okay. So speaking of mediumship, you have a show called The Reluctant Medium Podcast, which indicates that you don't want these abilities and or you don't want to be branded as a medium. Tell us about that.

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Yeah. Well, as I said, I thought that I would be kicked out of my career. Like here's a therapist saying that she can talk to souls on the other side. That's not clinical, that's not evidence-based. So I was very reluctant. and then I dipped my toe in, and I thought, let me just see. It feels like this could be really helpful. And it just took off. And so I reluctantly away I went and I'm still a healthy skeptic. I like to say to myself, I'm still a healthy skeptic. 

Johnny Burke: Good- you should be.

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Yeah, every time that I see a  client, I'm like, listen, I'm just going to see what comes up and I'll tell you what's coming through. And more often than not, it connects with the person and I'm left going, what? It does? Okay. 

Johnny Burke: Yeah. it does. I was surprised when I first heard about it. You mentioned something earlier, a moment ago, certain types of beings showing up during a podcast. I can tell you  just even with Closer to Venus, it's happened a few times where , the guest speaker will say, someone's here and they have a message . And I'm thinking, uh oh, hopefully it's somebody I like.

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: I know. 

Johnny Burke: You hope so, but it's been pretty interesting, to say the very least. So spirit babies, the first thing that comes to mind is Starseed. Star seed or some type of star being, what exactly are they?

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: they are not one in the same though. To me, a spirit baby is the umbrella and there are star seeds within, the spirit baby realm. Really what it is, if you break it down, is these are souls who are, if you've ever seen that. It's an animated movie called Soul. As soon as I saw that movie- it's by Pixar, I think. I was like, what? Those are the beings I'm talking to! They are souls that are in their own kind of realm, is a little bit too cheesy of a word, but it's like they're in their own area of the ether where they're like waiting to come earth side. And some of those souls have specific jobs to do- all souls have specific jobs to do. We all have contracts and things, but star seeds, they have, in my experience, they have extremely high vibration. Extremely. So they often feel quite uncomfortable. 

Johnny Burke: Like the star seeds 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: That's right. No, that's what I mean. When star seeds are going to incarnate, they, they talk about. 

Johnny Burke: They have similar missions. 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Well, spirit babies are not all star seeds, but some of them are. So starseeds, in my opinion or experience, are impacting the planet, like globally. They're macro, their work is macro and some spirit babies, their work is not, it's very micro, so family oriented or community.

I've had some babies that have come through and they're connected to a particular type of being that I would call a star seed. Starseeds show up for me sometimes in different areas of my awareness, and they sometimes will show up like I'm speaking of aliens, they show up in different awareness. They're extremely high vibration, and, and sometimes they don't even show in bodies. They're just light beings. But they'll show me where they are in the universe, like, which I don't know a lot about constellations or stars and all that, but they'll show me where they're from. And usually the client that I'm seeing is from that place too or the baby. So there's some kind of connection somewhere. But yeah, not all babies are star seeds. just some of them are.

Johnny Burke: Seems like there is an overlap. High vibrational beings like light beings. There's probably some overlap between certain souls and star beings. I've had intuitives tell me that some star beings and angels are pretty much the same thing, but, they don't really need to describe themselves as being different 'cause to them it doesn't really matter. And the spirit babies seem to be part and parcel of the pre-birth planning, which happens in the in-between state. 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Yes. That's correct. exactly right.That's exactly right.

Johnny Burke: In your work, I would imagine that when you do your sessions that some of your clients, and maybe even you share the experience where they are in the in-between space and they see certain things and certain beings. Does that happen?

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Yes, they are in the in-between space. It's interesting though, as I said, it's almost like they're in their own, like think of a home where there are different rooms. They can visit the kitchen or the living room or something, but then they go back to their own room. It's very similar to that- best way that I can describe it. There are walls, but it's not like they can't visit other beings. Yeah. And in that space, they're prepping to come earth side. Although I have to say there are some spirit babies that are hanging out there after say, a miscarriage or an abortion or something like that. Sometimes they go back into that spirit baby realm to wait again to try to come earth side again. Sometimes they move on to a different room.

Johnny Burke: Or maybe they go to a different planet altogether depending  on who's elected president..

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Exactly. Would not blame them. 

Johnny Burke: That’s probably a story for another day. But that's what I would do. I'm like, no, I'm not going there. I want to go to Planet Zadar, whatever. Just put me on the bus. Put me on the plane. Put me on the Starship to send me anywhere else. 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: And there are some souls who'd be like, get me in there now because of who's elected. Get me in there now. Yeah. Everybody's got a plan, right?

Johnny Burke: Well they have a plan. They have things they want to learn and sometimes, from what I'm told, the In-between space among other things, is a place to plan the next incarnation. I think there's a very, very close parallel between souls and actors because actors take on difficult roles because why? They want to grow, right? Just like our souls want to grow, which means they're going to come back down here, they're going to forget all about it and think the hell did I get myself into? You see the parallel though, right?

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: For sure. It's totally the same. Yeah.  I should even say in the spirit baby realm, it's like standing backstage waiting for your cue to enter the stage. That's what it's like. Yeah. All the world's a stage, right?

Johnny Burke: All the worlds of stage; we are merely players, performers, and portrayers.

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: That is exactly right. Good old Shakespeare. 

Johnny Burke: It's also very interesting because every time someone brings up the in-between space, this stage , it's like casting a movie, casting a play. It's a shakespearean tragedy. Or maybe not.

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Or a comedy,

Johnny Burke: Yeah. God knows we need more of that. wait. We have one playing right here on planet Earth. 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: I know we sure do! Pop your popcorn! 

Johnny Burke: You spoke of lineages where some of these spirit babies are related to a certain star lineage as the birth mother is, right? 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Lots and lots. When I work with individuals, sometimes, I connect the spirit babies, but I also call in other benign souls, and I work only with high vibration energy. So I don't ever get really darker entities or anything. I call in ancestors, angels, guides, that kind of thing, and the angels will usually say, "please allow us to help you. Allow us in, please hire us tell us what job you would like us to do." cause they really, yeah, I know you're hired. 

Johnny Burke: Please, angels I'll pay double pay you double. 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: do what you need. But they truly can't interfere with its free will. That's what it is. Right. So like if we block them out, what they have to pay attention to. Yeah.

Johnny Burke: Let's talk about the work. You have a lot of different modalities. Besides being a medium, you're also a crystal healer and you read the tarot, , how do those two modalities figure in your work that you do today?

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: You know what? I like to think of it like a recipe for food. Lots of people can make chicken enchiladas, but they'll make it differently. Different spices, different ways of baking Different. Yeah. I know. I love enchiladas  maybe that's why I  brought that up. I don't know. But I feel like it's just another way for the other side to communicate. And sometimes people need my clients, they'll need tangible, visual things. Here's an example, I just did a session the other day. 

The person was, she was open, but a little like, I don't know who is this woman? She had never met me before. And, out comes her first card and it was the Ten of swords. And I showed it to her and she's like, "oh my God. I knew you were going to pull that card. "I'm like, how? Well, she had given herself a reading and that card came out twice. So that is the visual and confirmation that she needed, that she personally needed to make to feel like, okay, this is okay. So it's just a different modality. Now, mediumship is not healing. Tarot reading is not healing. The different modalities that I do for that are separate. 

So to communicate with the other side, there's tarot, there's oracle cards, there's medium ship, there's psychic awareness, those kinds can even right? Shamanism. Yep. Uh huh. I'll do things like, past life regression, but that's the person having an experience rather than me. But the difference is when I do from other past life, regressionists, I get to travel along with my clients so I can see and offer some detail when they come back to awareness. It's really interesting. Yeah.

Johnny Burke: I would think so. So what is your take on the type of practitioner that shares in the experience? And the one that is a if that makes any sense where they just document what the client experiences. What are your thoughts on that?

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: For example, a past life regression; that's the way that I used to operate is, do the hypnosis and walk people through what they're experiencing is. And it is incredible, what they get out of it. It’s just sort of a bonus that I get to travel with them if they want. Sometimes that's a no, and that's fine. I have to honor that. I think that the person gets exactly what they need to get when they  find a practitioner. Oh gosh, yes. Oh Yeah. absolutely. 

Johnny Burke: That's definitely a benefit to the person that's not a medium or psychic or, can tell the future or can read energy 'cause not everybody can, even though every single medium I've talked to says anyone can do this, but they have to be trained properly. They can't just take one class and then put up a shingle because those people can probably do more harm than good, I would think. Right?

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Indeed, indeed. They have to be willing, they have to learn, they have to lean in, stay humble, stay curious, stay, like a healthy skeptic I think is probably the best way. And yeah, I feel like there's an energy around curiosity and, I feel like the more that I learn, the less I know. I'm just going to stay innocent. Yeah. I'm just going to stay innocent and curious and let the universe guide me because I just can't possibly know all of the things and I'm okay with not knowing all of the things.

Johnny Burke: All right. Because we have eternity to figure that out anyway, right? Pretty much. Yeah. Okay, so you've been in the in-between space. You've documented clients' experiences as well as shared in them and had some of your own. So, I would think you would've experienced past lives before that. So can you tell us about some of those experiences that really stand out?

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Yeah, my own past life experience? The one it was so jarring, I didn't start telling the story until maybe a year or two ago. This is well before I owned any of this mediumship stuff, I was, curious. If you've heard of the Omega Institute in Reinbeck, New York?

Johnny Burke: Yes, I was just, in Woodstock about three months ago, and to digress, the energy there, it was palpable., and there is a replica of a Buddhist temple. But yeah, I've heard of it.

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Geez. Oh my gosh. incredible incredible place. Lots of beautiful energy. And I had just gone there for a weekend. I was curious about one of those continuing education things for my license for therapy and there was a gentleman there, Brian Weiss, who was doing a training on past life regression. I thought that's interesting. Okay and what I loved about him- side note is that he said it's not like you have to believe in anything. It's just as effective for someone who believes or doesn't believe. That's not about belief. It's about what the person experiences. Anyway, I was drawn to that, being a left brain scienc-ey person.

I had an experience there where he said that dreams, very vivid dreams could also be a past life memory. And I had this dream years prior, like 10 years prior, that I still remember every single detail, every detail. He said that that can be part of a past life memory. So he said the cool thing about nowadays is that we can get on good old doctor Google and look up some things. Well, I did.

I went home and I, and I googled this person. This dream that I had was I was kind of flying. It was like above it looked like a castle to me. And there was a woman standing on the flat roof on the top and she was wearing a, green gown and she was with a monk. And the monk was like her caretaker, but she felt like she was in prison. And, I was her. I knew that I was her, and he said to her, okay, you can't go anywhere, but I'm going to go over here and take a nap. Wink, wink. Don't leave now. And then she ended up leaving, going and hopping on a horse and, and having a good old time. Well, I knew that she felt like royalty, and she felt like a prisoner. So those were the little details that I had. So I'm googling up. Princess, I guess, or, or queen something, royalty held prisoner, blah, blah, blah, blah. 

Well, I come across a couple things that I'm like, Nope, that doesn't match. Okay, this is probably lame. Then I came across an image of the actual- this is still mind blowing, the building that I saw in my dream. The building was right there in front of me on Google. I'm like, oh my God. I was standing right there. And it turns out this woman existed. She was a Welsh princess whose mother died in childbirth and her father died in battle. A year later, her uncle took over the kingdom temporarily until she was old enough, but he got greedy, and he put her in a priory with both monks and nuns. And she lived out her whole life there until she was 50, I think three and died. She died there a prisoner.

 The amazing thing is that I ran into my now aunt in that past life memory, that I did when I was in that training with Brian Weiss, I went there again, and I ran into my aunt there. I told her about it and she was like, okay, she's open, but she was like, that's odd. Well, she went and had her own past life regression therapy session, and she went back to that exact life and I didn't tell her this. I didn't tell her anything about my physical appearance in that life; She described me to a T exactly. 

Johnny Burke: She's your aunt in this current life. What was she in the past life?

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: She was a nun. She was a nun. Her name was Agnes. She was a nun and. was, she was a feisty nun. Yeah, she described me around this water fountain, this dress that I was wearing. I was surrounded by two other people, either monks or nuns. She saw me being escorted through the garden and I was like, mind blown. I said" I had to have described myself to you." She said, "No, Maria, you never told me a thing about how you looked." Like. Oh my God.

Johnny Burke: That's pretty crazy like in a good way. have you discovered anyone else in this life that you knew before?

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Yes. Plenty. Actually, my ex-husband, I ran into my ex-husband. We were still married at the time, and he didn't like me very much actually in that life. 

Johnny Burke: Oh, in the past life.

Dr. Maria Rothenburger: In the past life, yes, in the past life he didn't like me very much. I stole his thunder. And he was actually correct in that past life. He was, but I ran into him. I ran into my son, my oldest son as, a Japanese woman gosh, I've run into many, many people. It's fascinating, I ran into my youngest son as well. He was actually a little girl. The list goes on and on and what's cool about it is that when you look at a past life, you get to touch base with what did I get or what did I learn from that? What has expanded in me because of that experience?

And so I take notes, I take dubious notes because sometimes I forget, like all humans. Why did I have that experience? So I look back, the past life where I was that, princess held captive, I needed to be outside, I needed to be in nature. I was never allowed, except for this small garden behind the priory. I needed to go to be expansive, to let loose, and I was never allowed to get married or have children because I would then create heirs to the throne. And in this life, I struggled with fertility issues so I wonder about that being connected and still moving through the grief of that. 

 Once I had that experience, oh my goodness, so many things opened up in terms of health and vitality and parenthood, I can go on and on. It's a whole other, podcast episode, I'm sure. But 

Johnny Burke: We might have to consider that because it seems like there's. a lot to talk about. So it's fascinating with the past lives there definitely is a healing element

and everyone that's ever described one has said the same thing, that once they saw a particular life, which tends to come up as it's relevant to this life, they get something. It's almost like doing a cleanse, And they get an awareness from it. What are some of the biggest takeaways from, experiencing the in-between space where you get to see the whole cycle, birth, death , going into the in between space, planning her next incarnation,  coming back down, the soul amnesia . What is it like?

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: First of all, I think it's a little bit difficult, and I often say this to clients, it's difficult to both be in the spirit realm and on the earth because in the spirit realm it really is like watching a show. It's like, okay, that happened and now here's the next move. Meanwhile, we're talking about somebody who just lost their baby. On the earth plane that is complete and utter devastation. There are no words for that kind of loss, the baby on the other side is going, okay, that happened. Let's regroup. We're ready. Right. Let's go. Right. They're joyful and happy.

Johnny Burke: It's like you're reading a book and thinking, God, I feel bad for that character. But then when you put the book down, you think, okay, that was just a book, or that was a TV show. Or that was a movie. 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Thats right.

Johnny Burke: This is my next role. So I was, this last time, the group, convenes and they accept roles individually of not only what will benefit them, but what will benefit the group? Maybe that's the soul group. That’s what I've been told. You find the same thing? 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Yes, because we are the group. All of us. I feel like the whole purpose is to all come together to our oneness again. That we are not individuals. We are all coming to oneness. And so it's all about love. I mean, it sounds so cheesy, but it's true. It’s spreading love. 

Johnny Burke: It's very consistent with what, I've heard and it's not the puppy love, boy girl thing. It's something much stronger. It's like a current that goes through everything, 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: It is, that's a great way to put it. a Yes. It's like a current, that goes through everything. 

Johnny Burke: a current that goes through the neural network as it were. Those aren't my words. Someone suggested that" you might not even be aware of it, but you're building a neural network of these experiencers and just building a collective of knowledge. I thought that's a pretty good way to describe it, because I'm not an expert. A lot of us are not. We're all trying to learn. 

You mentioned something about fertility, moment ago. Your book Transcending  Fertility, Nine Keys for Improving Fertility, Creating Miracles and Being a Better Human. Is this the sum total of your experience with all the modalities you've learned? 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Well, actually the book came well before the mediumship stuff. Yeah, there's a lot of metaphysical stuff in there is when I was really dipping my toe into other explanations for things because really what happened there is I was so desperate. In my fertility journey that I began meditating.

Johnny Burke: All right. 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: I was like, well, listen, I've tried every freaking thing else, so I'm going to try this on for size. I'm going to prove it wrong because that's how I roll. And I started, mindfulness based stress reduction out of, UMass. After 90 days of meditating, this is when I lived in New Jersey, and I don't know if you know of Jersey drivers, but 

Johnny Burke: I grew up in New jersey.

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Oh yeah, okay. Expletives and gestures, I very much was that somebody would cut me off on the highway and I would be flipping the bird and cursing them out. Well, 90 days after starting MBSR, mindfulness-based stress reduction, someone cut me off on the highway and my first reaction, reflexive reaction was, oh man, I hope they're okay. 

Johnny Burke: Okay. 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: then I went. Oh crap. I guess this works. So, so I began doing more and more research on mindfulness, and that's how I started getting into the spiritual stuff. I was always sort of on the spiritual side. I was never religious, but I really began delving into the science behind things. My experience after fertility issues was that I felt so joyful and I didn't know why I didn't even have a baby. I was just joyful again. After mindfulness I began to want to understand why, why do I feel, okay? Is there something more than mindfulness here?

And it came across the concept of post-traumatic growth rather than post-traumatic stress or stress disorder. And post-traumatic growth is really what transcending infertility is about, it's about rising above. It's about using the experience of trauma to grow. So in that book, there are all the practices that I used, heavily. I like to say I'm heavily meditated. Uh, there's a lot of meditation in there.

Johnny Burke: A great term. Love it. but I think it's interesting that you wrote that book before the mediumship, before the path that you're on now, and the spirit babies became central issue in your life. 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Yes. Yeah, they're probably going to make me write a book too.

Johnny Burke: Go ahead. Come on kids, get on it. Let's go. I'm all for this, ascension trip, and when I hear about spirit babies and star beings and star seeds and star nations, I'm thinking, come on guys, come on. Do something. just don't sit there on your galactic throne. Come on. I know that they can't interfere. But do you get the feeling that there is going to be more disclosure and eventually there's going to be some kind of grand event where we are ascended. Or at least some of us are able to get on the proverbial boat and say, yeah, I want to get the hell out of here. I want to go to five D or wherever we're. Ascended beings, or at least enlightened beings. 

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Yeah, I think we're seeing it now. I, think people often ask me and somebody ask me even recently, why does growth necessitate pain? I think that's what we're seeing right now. It's very true. Anytime that we experience painful things, it's because we're on the cusp of something greater, and I think that's what we're seeing now. The political climate, wars, the energy of the earth right now. The energy of the planet is absolutely just so edgy, and I think it's because it's pushing us into the next thing, which is light and love and connection and oneness. So, yes. Short answer. Yes, I do. 

Johnny Burke: So hopefully this is a precursor to when certain institutions or, belief systems kind of crumble and it gives way to something else. Anything else we should know, at least for tonight?

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: You are loved. Spread it. 

Johnny Burke: There you go.  That’s the best message I've heard all week or maybe all a year. All right, Dr. Maria, thanks so much for joining us. Great stuff. In the meantime, how can our listeners find you online?

 Dr. Maria Rothenburger: Best place is my website, drmariarothenberger.com. That's Burger like hamburger, B-U-R-G-E-R. my Instagram account the reluctant medium.

Johnny Burke: Awesome, love that. You've been listening to Closer To Venus. I'm Johnny Burke. If you enjoyed today's episode, please consider subscribing. For more info, you can go to closer to venus.com. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you next time.