#259 Shamanism, Ancestors and Sacred Sites with John Paul Eagleheart

In this episode of Closer to Venus, Johnny Burke sits down with shaman, "site whisperer," and theater/film director John Paul Eaglehart to explore what it really means to move between worlds. John Paul shares how his 27th-birthday Saturn return launched him into decades of communicating with ancestors, guardians, and land spirits at sacred sites across six continents.

• Why shamanism is about purpose, not curiosity—every journey between dimensions is meant to bring back help for the community
• How time works differently at sacred sites, where spirits perceive visitors as "ghosts from the future"
• A firsthand account of contacting the consciousness of the Earth itself, known as Gaia

Find John Paul online at eagleheart.com.au or on YouTube at Eagleheart Shaman.

00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro

00:36 Saturn Return Awakening

01:52 What Shamanism Means

03:09 Mediumship and Purpose

04:03 Tuning Into Site Spirits

05:34 Time and Parallel Realities

08:36 Mission and Secret Teachings

10:32 Star People and Bosnia Pyramids

14:04 What Is Site Whispering

17:58 Channeling Risks and Memory

20:48 Advice From Ancestors Today

24:24 Multidimensional Consciousness

26:45 Telepathy Before Language

30:57 Gaia and 5D Ascension

33:56 Where to Find John Paul

34:14 Closing and Subscribe 

https://www.eagleheart.com.au 

Transcript

Johnny Burke 0:01

Welcome to Closer to Venus. I'm Johnny Burke, and today's guest is John Paul Eaglehart. He is a shaman, sight whisperer, as well as a theater and film director. His work guides the spiritually curious into transformational experiences, bridging the gap between the seen and the unseen. In this episode, we'll discuss communication with ancestors and spirits at sacred sites across Europe, North America, South America, Australia, and Asia. John Paul, welcome to the program. Thanks for having me. Have fun. Yes, I believe this will be fun. So your introduction to shamanism and the unseen world, did that happen all at the same time or not necessarily?

John Paul Eagleheart 0:44

No, it happened at the same time. When you turn 27, 28, it's called your Saturn return. And the idea is that's when your soul calls to you to find its true purpose. So people have career changes, they have relationship changes. So for me, when I turned 27, I was an opera director. So it all happened exactly at the same time. There'd been a couple of dabblings in a into spiritual dimensions, but nothing really until that moment. And on that specific day of my 27th birthday, it all changed. I don't know much about astrology. The most astrology I've learned came from a Neolithic site I visited. But it's a thing, your Saturn return. People experience, if you ask them about what happened to you when you were about 27, 28, they'll be life-changing things.

Johnny Burke 1:33

For those that are not really familiar with that modality, what is shamanism and what is your direct experience of it?

John Paul Eagleheart 1:41

Well, I think one of the things for everyone to realize is that shamanism has been around since the dawn of humanity. There's always been someone in the community, someone in the tribe who had the ability to move between realities or move between worlds. And for me, that gift that you have to be able to do that has to have a purpose. So I've never been one of those people who it's a fascination to just go to another place. I think you have to go for a purpose. You're to be of service to your community or to be of service to your tribe. So you have this ability, so you go to other dimensions for the purpose of getting information, advice, healing, wisdom, and bringing it back to make a difference for you, for your community, for the land. So there always has to be a purpose. The shamanism, I think, is the gift to move between worlds. And then different cultures have different abilities that the shaman has, and you discover that you have unique abilities, might be healing is your particular ability. It might be weather work, might be your ability, but you're going between worlds to ask the spirits for help, advice, healing, and bring it back.

Johnny Burke 2:48

So speaking of moving between worlds, there seems to be a connection or perhaps an overlap with the world of mediumship. Do you find the same thing?

John Paul Eagleheart 2:59

I think mediums, it used to be, I think you would contact the departed that are now in spirit form for a purpose. And I think mediumship now is a bit more of a curiosity. And there was a period in the last century where mediumship became the vogue to prove that there were other dimensions. So mediumship was used as a proof that we are not, this physical thing isn't all there is, that there are other dimensions, that there is a spirit world, which means there's other dimensions. So I think sadly, mediumship got used as proof of interdimensional existence when really the gift in the shaman sense, the gift is to contact the departed, those that are just pure consciousness for a purpose.

Johnny Burke 3:43

Traversing into the different world or different worlds, what kind of beings do you actually come into contact with?

John Paul Eagleheart 3:51

So my thing is I go to a site and I ask the spirits first for permission to be there, that I'm coming there with open heart and open ears and an open mind. So I say that I'm here to listen and to learn, and then I ask the spirits of that place, could be ancestors, could be guardians, could be anybody that's there in another parallel dimension, for advice and help. That's what happens, and I ask whoever it is that happens to be. So I I guess I describe it like there are probably a hundred radio stations broadcasting right now, but you don't hear them, you don't pick them up unless you tune your radio to a particular frequency. So that's what I've learned to do is I'll go to a location and I can feel different parallel dimensions, and then I just carefully tune into one. So I'll ask and I'll scan for something older and older and go down layer, layer, layer until I find the dimension that I'm interested in. But the peculiar thing for me is if it's Saturday today, it's the same Saturday in the same time of the year, but a thousand years ago or five thousand years ago. So I don't ever talk to an omniscient spirit who knows everything. I end up having a conversation with whoever is there on that Saturday, thousands of years ago.

Johnny Burke 5:13

So when you talk about parallel dimensions, does that have anything to do with what are called parallel lives?

John Paul Eagleheart 5:20

Not in my understanding. So I am no expert on the parallel life science, but my understanding is that a parallel life means that you right now are living in other realities. So I think that goes deep into the laws of physics, which understand that the time is not linear. So once you get rid of linear time, then every choice that gets made, in some theories, creates a parallel life for you. The physical dimension is the one life you live, but there are other imaginary or dream or choices that you have made that create parallel lives.

Johnny Burke 6:00

In that space, when you're going in between worlds, do you get the feeling that there is no linear time in that space?

John Paul Eagleheart 6:08

Well, there mustn't be. Because all I can tell you is in my experiences for doing this for 36 years, is that time exists. So when I go visit a site, they don't know what it's like for us in this time. They know that I'm a spirit from the future. And to them, we look like ghosts look to us. So to them, I'm kind of a fuzzy energy thing. But they have often said to me, Oh, you're just a spirit from the future. So they're aware of spirit dimensions and that they know that I'm a spirit from the future, but they don't know anything about our time. They only know up to their time. So sometimes you want to ask them a question about after their time, and they just say, I don't know. I can tell you before, but I can't tell you after.

Johnny Burke 6:54

Could you ask these spirits, for instance, what was the cause of, let's say, the fall of Atlantis, if you go far back enough and they'll actually tell you?

John Paul Eagleheart 7:04

So that would be tricky because they wouldn't know the term Atlantis. That's our word for that culture. I could describe the fall of the dominant civilization. I'd have to find ways to phrase this, which doesn't make it important that they know the term Atlantis, because you can't say to these people, are you from Atlantis? Because that's not what they called it. So it's tricky. But yes, in theory, yes, exactly.

Johnny Burke 7:29

I think it's fascinating that these spirits call you a spirit from the future, but doesn't that imply that these realities are indeed parallel and existing at the same time? They have to be. What else could it be?

John Paul Eagleheart 7:43

Yeah, it has to be. But that's one of those things that just stretch your mind, and I've had to find my peace with accepting that this must be true, but I don't have to figure it out, or I don't have to absolutely understand it. I have to accept it.

Johnny Burke 8:00

Yeah, 100%.

John Paul Eagleheart 8:01

So one of the things that I say to all of my students and apprentices is religion is the belief in someone else's experience. Shamanism is your belief in your own direct experience.

Johnny Burke 8:14

I like that. Now at one point you had told me that this info, which I believe you get from the sacred sites, it had to be kept secret. But there's also some urgency in why it needs to be revealed now. Why is that?

John Paul Eagleheart 8:29

When I finished my formal men's initiation, which in my lineage is seven years of work, I was taken into the tepee with the elders. And that's where you're finished your initiation. So it's a talk about what's your mission in the world. So the elders said to me, So this is back in 1994, and they said to me, You're gonna live to a time when the world is dangerously out of balance, and we want you to use your gift of going to sacred sites around the world to contact the ancestors and ask for advice and help to bring back to our troubled times. So that's my total mission is to do that. So that's what I've been doing for all this period of time. And in order to do that, sometimes people are curious and they want to follow this path. So the secrets that have been kept are secrets of things like trance experiences, ghost dances, sun dances, pipe ceremonies, soul retrieval, sweat lodges, those kinds of traditional ceremonies that help you move into an altered state or move into a spiritual dimension are what was kept secret. And now they're saying we need more people like me to be out there changing the course of humanity. So we are in a time of share everything. So the secret teachings, which were understanding the different kinds of communication you can have with entities and beings and aliens, all of that needs to be shared. So it can't be kept a secret that the star people were part of our world. That has to be shared because everyone needs to accept this and we need to move forward. Star people.

Johnny Burke 10:11

All right, I was just about to ask you about this. The indigenous populations all across the world, they all talk about star people in their histories. The urgency of getting this information out now to help humanity, maybe save humanity, does that have anything to do with disclosure and the coming meeting with the star people? I hope so. I really hope so.

John Paul Eagleheart 10:36

If the key to disclosure or the key to the acceptance that we're not alone relies on the government's information, I'm a little bit worried. But it is true what you're saying. In my experience, when I sit with the medicine people, the senior elders, and they sniff you out and they kind of assess you and they go, Oh, you're a fully initiated. And I say, Yes. And so they say, Oh, well, then we can just jump to the highest level of information. So my experience is that there are levels of information that you get as you grow in your spiritual education. And the highest level is coming back to the connection to star beings, and that they used to be here and we used to visit openly, and they worked with us and we were together. One of the favorite stories that I can share is about the Bosnian pyramids. So in Bosnia is the world's largest and oldest pyramid on the planet. It's a whole valley of pyramids and amazing healing tunnels. And when I was sight whispering there, I've been three different times, you find out that this was a combined project to build this giant pyramid was a combined project between various extraterrestrial star nation races and the dominant civilization on the planet. And I had a really beautiful, heartfelt moment of going, well, wait a minute. So we used to be connected to this beautiful galactic family. And then now we're orphans, and it's sad. So I'm hoping that the disclosure stuff helps people realize that we're not alone and that all we need to do is to have a family reunion and reconnect with our star brothers and sisters.

Johnny Burke 12:19

Great explanation because I've heard countless people come onto the show and talk about their star family, talking plainly about their connection to their Pleiadian family or their Lyran family or whatever it is. There's countless star races. It seems like what you're doing could be the missing link to basically spread this knowledge so people become more aware, which again is part of waking up, which we've been hearing for the last 10 or 12 years.

John Paul Eagleheart 12:49

Oh, yeah. I've had lots of people in my circles respond to that. They've had an awakening, they've gone to someone and done a life between lives session, they've done some work, and suddenly they discover that there's some kind of star connection. And I think coming into the world at this time, you and I have chosen, our souls have chosen to come here now. So one of the things you're saying is, well, why now? And I think this is part of the why now, is maybe we're at the golden edge of reconnecting and coming back into unity with all of the star nations. That would be so beautiful.

Johnny Burke 13:29

That would coincide with the window that we're about to go in, we're already in, which is referred to as what, the Aquarian Age. Yep. All right. So let's talk about sight whispering. If you do a Google search, it doesn't tell you anything about sight whispering in the spiritual sense. Is it as simple as going to a sacred site and as you mentioned before, asking for permission, you're here to learn and observe, or is it more than that?

John Paul Eagleheart 13:58

Both. So just for our watchers and listeners, if there are dog whisperers and horse whisperers, what I learned in my initiation years was that I'm a site whisperer. So I can go to a site, I can actually be anywhere, and I can start to tune in to all the different layers of time and different spirits and entities that occupy this location at different times. So then once I find one of these frequencies, then I focus on tuning in and then it all appears. So I'm looking at a landscape that's completely different, which the funny part of this story is that a lot has changed on the landscape in 5,000 years. So sometimes I'm at a Neolithic site and I'm seeing what it looked like 5,000 years ago, which is a beautiful stone floor that's all polished and all level. But in our time, that stone floor is gone. It's all rocky, and the spirits are saying, Well, come here, let's show you this. And they want me to navigate to the where they are. And in their time, it's a beautiful, level, easy floor. But in my time, it's very treacherous. So I'm trying to keep my awareness between both dimensions. I'm tripping and stumbling, and they probably are looking at me going, What's your problem? But that's the way it appears, is that it's a completely different dimension. And I've made clear what my intention is. And so sometimes you get a spirit that's like a greeter. So in Malta, when I was at Emnidra, the structure of Emnaidra on the island of Malta, we were met by a guy who I can only describe as kind of like the greeter. So we're back 5,000 years ago, and we're standing in the entryway of the temple, and this young man comes up and he says, Are you here for healing or to see the oracle? And I said, Well, actually, neither. And he says, Oh, let me go get someone else. So I said, just wait here.

Johnny Burke 15:59

I have to go get the future spirit greeter, right? Something like that.

John Paul Eagleheart 16:03

So my friend and I stand, and this other woman for a while, and this other woman comes up with him, and she is one of the healers. And she says, So what is it that you're interested in? So sometimes that happens because I just end up talking to whoever's there. Sometimes they have to go get someone else. And I just love the fact that for them, in their time, a ghost has shown up that they're having a conversation with, and that's not a weird thing to them.

Johnny Burke 16:34

It's mind-bending that you're able to go back, in this case, 5,000 odd years and have a conversation with someone. It's not like you're watching a film or a film loop, you're interacting, right?

John Paul Eagleheart 16:49

Absolutely. So the easiest thing for me is traveling with someone else, because if my skill is to be able to sense these other frequencies and tune into them, that's my concentration and my consciousness focuses on that dimension. But if I have to think of the questions, then I have to come back to this time, back to this reality, back to this mind, think of the question, then hope that I can get back to the right frequency to ask the question. So I love it when I'm traveling with someone else and they can ask the questions. Because then I'm much more of a channeler. I'm just facilitating the conversation back and forth. But it's an absolute conversation. It's not just receiving information.

Johnny Burke 17:32

Speaking of channeling, I've had some speakers tell me that there is an inherent danger because why would you want some entity that you know nothing about inhabit your body?

John Paul Eagleheart 17:46

I don't know why you would do that either. To me, channeling means you have the awareness to facilitate a conversation in another dimension. Allowing them to enter your body, why would you do that? Even a really good trans medium will tell you that they are putting themselves in a state of trance so that there's no filter between the spirit communication and them. But the spirit is not inhabiting their body. Some trans mediums do that. And I agree, I think that's a bit risky. You better have good skills, and there are good skills. You can learn to clear yourself, to open yourself, to close, to clear. So you can learn those skills, which is great. If you are really protected and you're really smart and you understand how to manage all this, go for your life. Because it is. When I've experienced trance channels, it's an amazing thing. I think the hard part for the channeler or the shaman is they have no memory of.

Johnny Burke 18:42

Okay, so no memory. So do you ever record these things? Always. Because you're not going to remember it.

John Paul Eagleheart 18:49

I'm better because I don't trance out. My eyes don't roll back, I don't fall on the floor. I stay pretty alert. But at the end of a session, I'll remember about 25% of what got said. All the specifics I won't remember. Because if you think about people who interpret who are interpreters for deaf people, right, and they're signing. If you ask them at the end of a signing session, what was the conversation? Because you're just letting it flow through you. Your job is to let the information flow through you and translate. That's your job. So you're not paying attention, you're being a good facilitator.

Johnny Burke 19:24

So what's the difference between sight whispering and talking to spirits and just going into the afterlife and speaking with spirits that that have passed on, but you can still contact. Is it the same thing or is it just a different frequency?

John Paul Eagleheart 19:39

I think it's a different frequency. So why I call it sight whispering is because it's strongest for me, and it's my mission, that I do it at a specific location. So I think if you're thinking about people at like a psychic fair who are opening themselves to channel spirits, guides, teachers of yours, past relatives of yours, that's a clear intention. And I think it's probably the same. I think. I don't do a lot of that work, so I can tell you experientially that they're the same. But I think in theory, they must be the same thing. It's not completely different. It's different than that for me, it's about the location, the site.

Johnny Burke 20:18

So speaking of the entities, the spirits, the ancestors that you contact, do they have specific advice for us at this time here in 2026?

John Paul Eagleheart 20:30

Yeah. So one of the things I had to learn was the mission I was given is to contact the ancestors and ask them for advice to correct and help our time. They don't know our time. So the conversation I have to be in to try to find out if there's advice. So I asked them about things like, it seems that you live in a peaceful time. What do you think makes it so peaceful? Or it seems to be that you live in a society that has incredible racial tolerance. Does that make sense to you? And typically things like that make no sense to them because they don't understand why you would have non-racial tolerance. So there's interesting things that they're curious about. So they ask questions of us. They ask us all the time, why did you come here? Why are you so curious about us? When they ask us questions, we reveal more about what it's like for us. And quite often they're appalled. One of the things that absolutely confuses them is money. That makes no sense at all to them. That this arbitrary thing becomes more valuable than your actual gifts or your actual talents. I've tried various ways to try and explain money, and they think that's just a crazy concept. And they're always saying, Well, who said that? Well, why do you believe that? Another thing that often they stumble on is time. So everybody that I travel with or everyone that I talk to wants to know, well, when is this that you're talking to? When is this person living? They don't count linear time. If I say, what year is it? They're like, what year? I don't understand that question. Because they live in cyclical time. So they can tell you what phase of the moon they're in. They can tell you what time of the year they're in, but which year in a linear time? So a couple of those things are beautiful. And another thing is oftentimes these sites that I go to were created for celebrations, for community gatherings, for food distribution. So they serve multiple purposes. Academic archaeology wants to decide that every structure is a tomb. What is this site? Oh, it was a tomb. Place closed. It was a tomb. Because they found interred remains. If you have a sacred site that's revered, one of the functions of that site would be a place of rest for the departed. So, yes, you would have found things there, but that wasn't the whole purpose. You wouldn't go to the trouble of building a giant structure. Some of these Neolithic sites are massive. Well, you wouldn't go to all of that structure, all of that effort to build a huge structure when you could just put them in a grave. So it's an understanding that their communities gathered together and that they were following the cycles of the sun, and that at solstices and equinoxes, those were times for the community to come together. Because if you think about these people being agrarian, they lived in desperate little small communities. So for reasons to come together, and a solstice or an equinox is easy. Everyone can tell when that is. You don't have to send out invitations with a date on it. Everyone watches.

Johnny Burke 23:34

The date and the time. I just realized we're having this conversation on June 21st, which is a solstice. Is that a coincidence or not really? You've had some pretty amazing experiences. What are the most important things you've learned so far that we need to know about?

John Paul Eagleheart 23:52

I think we need to know that we inhabit just a tiny reality, that this reality is tiny compared to the vast real dimensions that are operating at the same time. I trained in the Native Canadian, Native American traditions. It was all about the earth. I understood that you had respect for the animals, the trees, all of nature, the waters, the weather. That was great. But as I started out on my journey, I kept encountering more and more bizarre things that I thought, oh, come on. Fairies, real tick, gnomes, tick, dwarves, tick. It just keeps going. And I just have to accept that this is what I'm experiencing. So the fact that we live in such a multidimensional world is beautiful. And I think it makes us really curious, which is great. So I think the more curious we can be, the more willing we can be to say, look, I don't know. Why would I say these things can't exist? Isn't it more fun, more interesting to say, let's see, let's check it out? So I think that's the most important thing is to understand that we live in this multidimensional reality and that there are all kinds of energies and spirits and consciousness. I love the fact that science is now coming close to understanding that maybe consciousness is the base of everything, that you can keep searching for the God particle all you want, but then when you discover that the God particle appears when you're looking for it, that means that consciousness is really the key. And the work that Kai Dickens is doing with telepathy with autistic non-speakers blows your mind. Because that means that consciousness operates between people. One of my most fabulous spirit teachers is an 80-year-old elm tree. And that elm tree has consciousness and wisdom, as all trees do. So understanding that consciousness is the thing to explore, I think is another fundamental thing. So I think those are two really quick things is that we're in a multidimensional reality, and that consciousness probably is the key to unlocking communication and acceptance and understanding and wisdom.

Johnny Burke 26:08

When we talk about consciousness, one of the things that seems to be a no-brainer to me, no pun intended, is the brain is more like a receiver, right? Consciousness does not die with the death of the brain. It keeps going on. And you mentioned telepathy. I believe a colleague of yours talks about pre-language telepathy. Carol Talbot? Yes. Carol Talbot talks about pre-language telepathy, which she says is the most purest form of telepathy. What kind of implications does that have for consciousness and our understanding of it?

John Paul Eagleheart 26:44

So I think that's absolutely true. That if you want to really work on your telepathic abilities, it's pre-language. So I presently am working with an autistic, non-speaking young man, and we're having sessions, and I'm helping him with shaman protections and energy work. And he's helping me with my telepathic skills. And I said, Look, you're way better at this than I am, so you'll have to help me. And at a certain point, he said, Well, John Paul, the problem is you're addicted to language. And if you stay addicted to language, your telepathies will be very slow. So if you can let go of your need for language, and I said, But that's what I do. In going to sacred sites, it's yes, it's a telepathic download that I receive or a telepathic conversation. But in order to deliver this to people, like this podcast, I have to use language. So he said, Well, I get that, but the language comes after the telepathic experience. So he has put me through some skill tests, some training, where he says, Okay, I'm going to give you a telepathic download, if we can use that term. And I sit there and he said, Okay, did you get that? And I say, I don't know. Didn't feel anything. I so then he starts asking me questions and I have the answers.

Johnny Burke 28:03

It's almost like getting a zip file, and you don't know what's in it until you open it up. That's another thing Carl talked about.

John Paul Eagleheart 28:11

Yeah. Perfect.

Johnny Burke 28:12

In your conversations or communication with the ancient spirits, the the ancestors and so forth. Do you ever get the feeling that way back then telepathy was normal, like everybody did it?

John Paul Eagleheart 28:25

It was more normal. Not everybody did it, but it was more normal. I've had many journeys in Malta. And one of the spirits in Malta, we went to a site where they were teaching the young kids. So they were teaching the kids to be better telepathically. And so we watched this kind of school. And they would have, okay, you have a telepathic link with this person, okay, now switch. Now you have a telepathic link with this person. They would go back and forth and back and forth until they could be better at this. So I know there was some training early on that got them to be better at telepathy. And we were filming at a location and there were a bunch of spirits that were watching us film. So the crew was curious about who are they and why are they here? And I said, Well, they're here because they see us as spirits, but they're curious about the frequency that's coming out of all this electronic equipment. There were two spirits, and one said, Look, I can't see you as good as he can, and I'm not as good at my communication as he is. So I know that there were different levels of telepathic skill. I don't think it was everybody did it. It was more common. It was more common, but I think it was still a skill that you perfected.

Johnny Burke 29:37

You had to work at it. Okay. Great stuff, man. Anything else we need to know, at least for today?

John Paul Eagleheart 29:42

I think that we live in a time that it's okay to be curious. I love the fact that one of the things that I like is that I'm a pretty practical kind of shaman. I'm not a woo-woo shaman. Everything that I do and learn and share is very practical. And I love that. And I think that one of the things that you and I both can do is to help people say it's okay to be curious. Look, don't believe us that there are star people. Don't go explore it though. Go explore it. Go explore it.

Johnny Burke 30:11

There's no point in wasting breath trying to convince somebody that this exists or it doesn't. You have to experience it. Last question for today. Since we do hear a lot of chatter about ascension and waking up and going into the Aquarian age, what do you suppose is going to happen in the next five or ten years, or do you have no idea?

John Paul Eagleheart 30:33

So I'm going to take you to an experience that I had in Bosnia last year. It was on the solstice last year. A couple friends of I, Michael Tellinger from South Africa and Istok, who's Serbian, we went to look for the center of the Bosnian pyramid area. And we found that this central area where there was all this incredible energy was the reason that the Bosnian pyramid and all the pyramids exist, was to tap this energy. So we went and I did my thing and I introduced ourselves and I said, we're here to listen and learn. And this beautiful, really incredible energy of just feminine and mothering and supportive and encouraging. It was just incredible energy. And we all could feel this energy come up from the ground. And this voice said to me, Well, then you're going to have to talk to me. I'm really the only one that can answer your questions. And I said, And who are you? And this beautiful voice said, I think you call me Gaia. And I'm like, Like the Gaia? Gaia, the consciousness of this planet. The conversation went to this idea of this ascension that we're going through. And she said, Look, this moving into this 5D ascension, whatever you want to call it, I haven't done it either. But there are planets who have done it before me. So I get advice, but we're all going through this together. So she said, What I can tell you from my experience is we have done for millions of years, we've done form. So we understand how to do form, how to create form, how to propagate form, how to end form. We've done form, but there's also formless. So she said, I don't think we're moving into complete formless, but I think we're moving into a dimension where the choice between form and formless will become more common. So her advice to us was I guess you need to start being comfortable at being in form and taking care of that form. Don't abuse the form, so that you can move between form and formless, that we can go back and forth. She said, look, that's from what I'm experiencing. So I think that's what we're experiencing. The fact that I can talk to a tree or a river or a rock must mean that their form is loosening to the extent that they are both a river and a consciousness of a river. There you go.

Johnny Burke 32:52

That's pretty damn good. I think we're going to stop there. There's no way I can top that, and I don't want to ruin it. Great stuff, John Paul. In the meantime, how can our listeners find you online?

John Paul Eagleheart 33:03

So I have a website which is eagleheart.com.au. I have a YouTube channel that is Eagleheart Shaman. A lot of my site whispering experiences short films, and I load them up to that YouTube channel.

Johnny Burke 33:16

You've been listening to Closer to Venus, I'm Johnny Burke. If you enjoyed today's episode, please consider subscribing. In the meantime, you can find more info on closer to Venus.com. Thanks again for tuning in, and we'll see you next time.