The Impact of Personal Branding in Doctor Marketing ft. Haana Javed

In this episode of the Marketing for Doctors Podcast, host Bob Miglani welcomes Sales Expert Haana Javed to explore the world of doctor marketing, with a particular focus on optometrists. Haana discusses how doctors can transition from working hard to working smart, emphasizing the importance of strategic marketing in the medical field. This episode is packed with practical tips for healthcare professionals looking to enhance their marketing efforts while maintaining a balance between patient care and profitability.

Key Insights from Haana Javed in This Episode:

• Transitioning from Working Hard to Working Smart
  Haana shares how doctors can streamline their marketing strategies to work smarter, not harder, ultimately leading to more effective patient engagement and practice growth.
• The Power of Personal Branding in Healthcare
  Learn why personal branding is critical for optometrists and how it can build trust, attract new patients, and foster a loyal patient base.
• Language and Rapport Building
  Discover the importance of language in marketing and how doctors can use effective communication to build rapport with patients, enhance their experience, and improve treatment acceptance.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Leveraging Social Media for Marketing Success
  Practical strategies for optometrists to use social media to reach new patients, promote services, and build a stronger online presence.
• The Influence of the White Coat in Patient Perception
  How the white coat and other non-verbal cues can influence patient perceptions and impact the decision-making process when it comes to treatment recommendations.
• Effective Communication in Selling Treatments
  How doctors can refine their communication techniques to sell treatments and recommendations more effectively without feeling pushy, ensuring a positive patient experience.

Don’t miss out on these valuable insights! Tune in to hear Haana Javed’s expert marketing strategies designed to help optometrists and healthcare professionals elevate their practices and improve patient outcomes. Like, subscribe, and share this episode with your colleagues!

Transcript

Bob Miglani:
Hi, this is Bob Miglani.

Haana Javed: Hi, this is Haana Javed.

Bob Miglani: And this is the Marketing for Doctors podcast. Hi, Haana. Nice to see you. So, Haana, talk to us about doctors. What is one thing that you think that is so messed up when it comes to the practice of medicine, practice of optometry today, you talk to a lot of doctors. So what is one observation that you have about doctors today?

Haana Javed: You know, doctors are, they're so smart. They're so intelligent. They're such hard workers. They are trained to work hard. They are trained to do $40 eye exams until they burn out. So that is the problem.

Bob Miglani: That's a major problem. They work so hard because they went to medical school to heal people, right? And so that's their oath, the Hippocratic oath that they took to heal people. And when they open up their practice, that's what they do. They fill up their chairs with people who need help. And they help them. And then they get the reimbursement check in the mail. And it's like, what? I got this much? I spent all this time with her? And that becomes often the dilemma.

Haana Javed: Definitely. what we're seeing now is pivoting from working hard to working smart. And I think that transition is something all of us struggle with, right? But I think optometrists especially, because they don't necessarily have a marketing background naturally, so it can be a little bit more complicated for them. But what do you think about that?

Bob Miglani: No, I think also the other thing, I do, I 100% agree, I think they are in a place where their business is doing quote-unquote fine, they've got revenues, but at the end of the year they look at their profitability and slow. And yes, they might be able to put a car expense in there, maybe a of They have the operator hat, like I'm an operator, I'm going to be really good at giving exams. But they don't wear the other hat, which is the owner hat. And the owner hat has to look at their business very differently. They have to look at metrics, they have to look at employees, costs, expenses. And the other thing, which you and I see all day long, is where is the growth on a Where am I going to grow my revenues and my practice for the next 10 years? And what are you seeing in terms of growth drivers? Let's say in optometry. What are you seeing?

Haana Javed: Um, I think a lot of, a lot of the optometrists I've been talking to as of recently are, I think getting to the point where, you know, they're able to differentiate between doing things that need to be done throughout the day. And then at the end of the day, they're like, okay, well, what did I work out or what, what are my numbers looking like? And be able to differentiate. And then from there, they are like, Hey, maybe I need to contact Hoot or, you know, maybe I need to contact a marketing service to see how I can potentially grow from here. So I think they are getting to the point of differentiating, but some of the growth factors they're looking at is they're looking at their numbers. How many IPLs did I get this month? How close am I to actually paying off my 100K IPL that I bought two years ago?

Bob Miglani: You know, you said that in a nice way, but I would say if you could spend $100,000 and it's gathering dust, that's the other thing I see with a lot of optometrists, especially, is that they're so focused on the disease that, oh, I'm going to do dry eyes because I've got all these patients who are suffering, and I've got this wonderful instrument that I'm going to buy that's $100,000. 100 grand you have to pay for something. And then the problem is it just sits there. And it's because they don't have a plan. And often they don't have that plan. So let's talk about marketing. This podcast is focused on marketing. So what are the things that, so they don't, their doctors are busy. They often spend, you know, for instruments to help patients, but it sits there. They don't have a plan to market those things. But let's talk about marketing. What seems to be working well for optometrists or doctors when they do marketing? Talk to us about what do you think works right now? What are they doing that works?

Haana Javed: So before you, you know, buy an IPL, first of all, make sure you give marketing enough thought, actually think about how you are going to justify this cost and how are you going to get your ROI on it. But what seems to be working right now is clinical education. IPLC can be complicated from a patient's point of view. They don't have any idea about what it is and what it does. So it's not a marketing message that will all of a sudden convert that patient. It's really strategic, clinical messages. Automation. We live in a world of automation. If you can automate your patient education, then that will definitely lead you down the path of increasing your conversion.

Bob Miglani: I had a doctor the other day and I said to her, I said, describe to me what an IPL is because she was interested in putting on a video and we're trying to help her. And she goes, she got this. She goes, okay, we take this probe and we put it around your eye. I'm like, you're not probing nothing. I'm like, what are you probing? Why are we talking about probes? Doctors are so smart. They're scientific. But the patients view that as like, what the heck are you talking about, doc? What's a probe? So I said, don't use a probe. Just say it's a handheld device. It's a beautiful contour and it looks like a bar of soap and basically we go around your eyes and we gentle pulses of heat go around your eyes. You're not probing the eyes. It's like you're describing it in a way that the patients understand it. So you're 100% right is that the intention to educate is there but often the language they use right is like way complicated or very scary for people yeah definitely just because it's so like out of the book yeah it's very

Haana Javed: strategic or very clinical. It's very clinical. So from a patient's perspective, that is going to go over my head. If you're trying to sell me an IPL and you're only talking in fact, and not making any sort of connection to my emotions, addressing my anxieties, my problems, then I'm most likely not going to sign up for that IPL.

Bob Miglani: Yeah, and so, but that's a great point about marketing. Let's talk to our audience here. If you're listening to this, you're an interest, you're a doctor, you're interested in marketing. And what I'm hearing is from Johanna is that, a very good point, which is no one cares about the way you present things. No one cares about the language you use, they care about the language that they perceive. That's what matters. It's like, you know, so often we are so interested in our own way of thinking and speaking, we don't realize that the other person has no idea what we're talking about. So I'll give you an example. Did you ever watch that show, Botched? What's it called, Botched? What is that show? Plastic Surgeons on Beverly Hills? So there's this show for plastic surgeons on Beverly Hills, And these patients come in with really bad, like, boob jobs, really bad facelifts, really bad nose jobs, and it's their, the two doctors, it's their last resort. Like, they go in, and they don't talk about this, that, and the other, and the placement, and all that, okay? They talk about that, actually, very end. What they talk about is, hey, what happened? Why did you get, you know, 16, you know, there was a guy, I remember, he got muscle implants, here he got thigh implants, he got all these implants. Thigh implants? Thigh implants, yes! He had implants, like a shin, what is that, the muscle in the back of your leg there? Calf? Calf implants! and you know i mean i don't know how hard i need that i don't really know so he's a doctor why tell me why explain to me why they start talking about emotions talking about his partner was you know very much into being you know perfect body when it looks like an adonis or whatever apollo or some greek god and they've been into the psychology of this patient and that is i think something we lack is this emotional connection that allows the doctor to, and it's because of time. Doctors don't have time today. So I think the emotional connection, going back to the point is that if you're gonna be a marketer and you're gonna be a doctor, you really need to understand that nobody cares about your solution, they care about their problem. And then two is, is the word you use and the emotional connection you make with somebody. You know, you have lots of conversations with doctors. How much easier is it when you're having fun and being playful on that Zoom call? Is it more fun and more educational for both people?

Haana Javed: Definitely. I think building rapport with your client or with your patient is so important. No one wants to buy from you unless they feel comfortable, first of all. And in order to make someone feel comfortable, you need to appeal to their senses. So it can be a conversation, it can be something like, hey, I like your shirt. Or where are you located? How was your day? What are your weekend plans? Things like that. Really kind of, you have to help the other person open up. And it's the nuances, it's very simple questions that you necessarily, us as sales leaders or as marketers, we know how to get someone to open up. But as a doctor, you might struggle with that. So spend a good time, building rapport with your patient.

Bob Miglani: Yeah, building rapport is, I think, is important because you are then trying, like, for example, if they had dry eye disease or they have some sort of specialty disease, you know, the goal is to ask them, hey, what's going on? How are you using your eyes? Like, just tell me how you're using your eyes. I had a doctor tell me once she was, and she's someone I know, she's my spouse, And she asked that question, how do you use your eyes? And there was this woman in her chair, older woman, she says, well, I used to see my grandkids, and I love seeing my grandchildren. Then my son and his wife, you know, his wife didn't get along, she and I didn't get along, and she no longer allows me to visit my grandkids. And so she started crying. And it was this simple question of how to use your eyes. And that emotional connection. And then, you know, Shefali got into Dr. Midlani, who's my spouse, who's an optometrist. She got into a conversation about, you know, okay, well, what are the ways you, you know, how are you thinking about this? What are you doing to fix the relationship? She started getting into a relationship conversation. Right. And then, you know, the next thing you know, they're talking about, okay, real problems in terms of their eyes, and clinical diagnosis, and then glaucoma and so on. And then that was a wonderful visit. And guess what that patient is not going to any other doctor. Because the patient got a chance to get something off their chest. Often, you know, patients do that. So it's not like you're going to have to spend all this time, but the point is to build a relationship.

Haana Javed: This is a human business. And what a simple question, right? Like, how do you use your eyes? It's like, you wouldn't necessarily think about that question, but of course an optometrist would, but it is cool to kind of see what a simple question can do for a person. Or what emotion it can possibly trigger for them.

Bob Miglani: That's right. So from a, if you think back to, let's go back to marketing. So if we're thinking about marketing, it's not about your product, it's about the customer's problem. And if it's about the customer's problem, then we need to get into like, okay, what is the problem? And then having a powerful question to ask is super, super important. So let's talk, let's switch gears a little bit. Let's talk a little bit about a lot of doctors today do social media for marketing. Now you're on social media. By the way, give us a sense of what's your preference in terms of social media. What do you look to first or when do you look to certain things?

Haana Javed: Give us a sense of that. I think if I were to rank it, I would rank TikTok, Twitter, Instagram. Twitter comes in second. I like banter.

Bob Miglani: Wow. I had no idea. I thought Instagram would have come in second.

Haana Javed: Instagram and Twitter kind of fluctuate a little bit, but I think I would still put Twitter on top.

Bob Miglani: Okay, big question. Is it because of Elon Musk owning Twitter that's become better or no?

Haana Javed: I think that's what makes Instagram and Twitter kind of tie together, because I think it used to be better before Elon Musk bought it.

Bob Miglani: Really?

Haana Javed: Before it became X. Wow. It was a little bit more raw, it was a little bit less censored. It's more censored now. It's more censored now.

Bob Miglani: But he claims that it's not censored at all.

Haana Javed: Yeah, that's just him though. That's just him talking about his perspectives. He bought a platform so he can just talk shit.

Bob Miglani: Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. All right, so TikTok, Twitter, and Instagram, all right? And then what kind of people do you like on Instagram? Or who does social media well? Let's talk about that. What do you, so advice for doctors who do marketing. What should they be doing on social media that they aren't doing today? Give us two or three tips.

Haana Javed: I think we live in a world of personal branding. If you are on Instagram, if you are on Twitter or TikTok, you need to present yourself as a brand, especially someone who owns a clinic or is looking to grow their you know, dry eye business. You yourself need to be a brand. Patients need to be able to associate you with something bigger than just where you present yourself to be. So, and social media does such a great job of, you know, grandeur. Yeah, right. It makes you seem amplifying. Exactly. Yeah, visibility. So build a personal brand, work on yourself, think about what it is that you you know, what your values are, what you stand for. And it doesn't have to be dramatic, that sounds dramatic. But it could be as simple as like, hey, if you like sports, or if you like basketball, right? Maybe share a story about the NBA every now and then just things that are associated with things you care about.

Bob Miglani: So, people want to peek behind the white coat and their office and go see what their life is like behind. For example, wedding photos or you went to this vacation. Is that kind of thing that's interesting as a doctor?

Haana Javed: Building your brand doesn't necessarily have to be personal, right? I think there is a difference between personal brand and there's a difference between just a brand and that could be ideologies and things you support so I That's really a personal preference on what you choose to showcase. I personally like to kind of talk about artistic things so photography modeling and My personal life, not so much. Fashion, so those are things that I kind of stand behind and build my brand around.

Bob Miglani: So you follow, you don't follow companies, you follow people mostly.

Haana Javed: Yeah, definitely. Influencers, right? Influencers are, we all know them. Influencers are huge. So if you can become, no one's telling you to become an influencer, obviously, but we're working with one right here. Well, how did you become an influencer?

Bob Miglani: I wanted to reach more people with my message. I wrote a few books and so I wanted to get my message out there to the world because I wanted to share it. And I felt like I had a rule, actually I made up these little rules, I put a sticky note and put it on my computer. Because every time I would tweet or do a Facebook post or whatever, I would have these criteria. Always be positive, always be instructive and helpful, and never criticize, never be negative, and just be more detailed as much as possible. And so that was my rules for engagement. It was so many times I just wanted to give up. I would do a video or whatever. Oh my God, this is so bad. Delete. And then it just goes away. But surprisingly, people react to that. People want to see the inside story of who you are. They want to hear the problems.

Haana Javed: Yeah, people like authenticity, right? People like to be able to deal with someone who has depth. So what do you do on your daily basis that adds to your brand?

Bob Miglani: I post. I post. What are you posting? I'm posting a lot of my topics around personal growth and development. So change management and things like that, or marketing. Where do you post? I post mostly on LinkedIn. That's my platform. I learned to do it really well with LinkedIn. I just nailed it. I used to have, I mean, back in the day, 45,000 followers on Facebook, and I never really transitioned to Instagram. And so I kind of lost my mojo with my platform. Boomer over here. I know, not really, but yes. So, you know, I caught the tail end of the Facebook boom and then LinkedIn, I just gave up Facebook and just focused on LinkedIn because that's where my audience was. But what I do is I post actively every other day or I comment and I like it. That's the other thing. People don't comment and like. They think just by putting stuff means that the world will like your stuff. It's a karma. I call it digital karma or social karma. You've got to like your stuff because the algorithm knows. If you go on LinkedIn and you just post stuff, you're not going to get as many as likes or your video or post won't be shown as much unless you like other people's posts or share a comment on other people's posts. They know that. And so that's one of the other tips, folks, is to go in and like and share and comment on other people's posts. And so it's not just about one time thing, but going back to the point, If you're a doctor who wants to build rapport with patients and grow your business, you've got to be on social and you've got to be authentic in a way that helps you portray who you are, talk about your children or your practice or your patients or your soccer or football fans.

Haana Javed: Even to your peers, right? Like patients, definitely. But even to your peers, like look around yourself. When you go to conferences, I'm sure a majority of the doctors around you are working on their personal brand. There is something that they stand for that's besides optometry. And that's what, you know, they're kind of leading with. So make sure you are developing someone behind the white coat, essentially.

Bob Miglani: Yeah, the brand. Well, I won't talk about it for a second, but let's hear the one thing. What do you say to the doctor who says, I'm not a brand, I'm a doctor? What does that mean a brand? I'm not, you know, Nike, you know, but what is a brand today? Is it brand? What is that today? Tell me.

Haana Javed: I think social media has given the James and the Toms of the world so much influence that from behind a screen, you can really make an impact. Look at TikTok. It came out during the pandemic. Now, people literally around the world are influenced by random Gen Z's and all it took was one video and You know that one video got viral and now they have more videos that are kind of related to that So sure, I think every everyone is like, uh, I don't really want to work on a brand I'm just I just want to do optometry. I just want to heal and that's great. You should definitely do that but also You have the influence or you have the power to influence people. I think that's the way to look at it. And if you use that power, then maybe as simple as your neighbor, right? Your neighbor could be influenced by it. You're a mailman. So think of it as the people that are surrounding you, the immediate circle, rather than 2,000 followers or 50,000 followers.

Bob Miglani: If doctors want to heal, you have an opportunity to heal and inform so many others than the ones just in your clinic. Exactly. And in your community around you and all that. So that's really, really, really powerful. Yeah. I do want to mention one thing. I know we kind of wrapped this up a little bit, but I think the white coat, I think we've got to bring back the white coat, huh? I mean, I feel as though it's something that you get trusted, you become more trusted, you become more science-based, you become seen as an expert. Hey, you wear a white coat. You happen to be an expert.

Haana Javed: It's kind of the equivalent of business people going into meetings with a suit on, right? True more seriously literally if you walk down the street and you have a suit on people are just going to look at you As someone who knows what the hell they're doing It's literally as simple as that Right. So I think that is the equivalent if you as a doctor are wearing a white coat Then people around you your patients are just going to look at you as an authority figure

Bob Miglani: Yeah, absolutely. Authority figure is very powerful, actually, because that demonstrates expertise, someone who will listen to and nudge along. There was a study in the Journal of American Medical Association, actually we'll put in the show notes, that talk about the power of the white coat, and it does make a difference in terms of patient perception. A lot of doctors say to me, like, Bob, I'm not wearing a white coat, it's not comfortable, it's too hot. I'm like, well, okay, we're in the winter. I don't know, wear like a t-shirt underneath. I don't know, make something up. But the idea is not about you. going back full circle what we talked about earlier, if you want to really be a better marketer, we have to think about them, not you. Them meaning the patient. How do you serve more? How do you reach more? How do you engage more? How do you influence more? And the way to do that is the white coat is part of that. So all right, one last thing. What is one piece of advice today as we wrap up for doctors to make a difference in their marketing?

Haana Javed: Don't be afraid of selling. I think a lot of doctors become a little bit shy when it comes to talking about treatments or talking about the next steps. I don't necessarily know if that's marketing, but I think it's part of it.

Bob Miglani: Yeah, it is part of it. It's sort of like, hey, this is what I'm going to tell you to do. I recommend you do this. Recommend is a very soft word.

Haana Javed: Yeah, right. I think it's about language and language is such a critical part of marketing. So get a better grip on the way you present things because presentation is key. People live for aesthetics. People live for the frills. It can make the biggest difference. And you can start very small as simple as, you know, being a little bit more salesy when it comes to your IPL conversion.

Bob Miglani: Right, right. And I think the, you know, medically influencing may be better, you know, appealable to doctors, but I get you. I mean, you're always selling something. You're always trying to convince or, you know, educate somebody. You're trying to educate a patient about glaucoma? That's selling. So you're trying to educate somebody about, hey, listen, stop eating french fries. You're getting cholesterol. That's selling. You're trying to persuade or nudge someone along so that they make a decision that you think is going to be their best interest. And so to me, that's what it's about. But I agree with you. I think doctors today need to be better marketers. if they're going to have an influence on changing health behaviors. Ultimately, that's what it's about, is shifting the narrative from problems to solution. If your doctors want to really have an impact, they've got to become better marketers, I think. I totally agree with you. I agree. All right, so let's wrap up. This has been an episode of the Marketing for Doctors podcast. I'm your host, Bob Miglani, and today's guest was… Haana Chavid. Thank you very much. Have a great rest of the day.