Unmasking at Work (with Adriana Vaccaro)

We all want to “be ourselves” at work… but many of us learned to survive by wearing masks: the high performer mask, the people-pleaser mask, the “I’m fine” mask. In this episode, Jess & Claude sit down with Adriana Vaccaro, CEO and Founder of Culture Redesigned, to unpack what masking actually is, why it happens, and how it quietly becomes your personal brand.

You’ll learn how to recognize when you’re masking, how psychological safety changes everything, and what leaders can do to create environments where people can show up as themselves. And we close with the question we all wonder: If unmasking feels risky, what’s the first mask you should take off without putting your job at risk?

In This Episode, We Cover

• What “masking” at work really looks like (and why it’s a brain-based defense mechanism)
• The connection between psychological safety and authenticity
• How to tell if you’re masking because something is unaligned vs unfamiliar
• Why “chameleon behavior” can feel safe—but cost you over time
• The manager’s role in shaping the emotional environment of a team
• How to build trust through consistent, clear, authentic communication
• Adriana’s safest “first unmasking step” when authenticity feels risky

Key Takeaways

• Unmasking isn’t an overnight change — it’s gradual and strategic.
• Psychological safety is the real opposite of masking.
• Your body often tells the truth first (fatigue, headaches, “the ick,” dread).
• Leaders must take responsibility for the environment they create.
• Trust grows when people experience you as consistent and authentic.
• A safe first step toward unmasking: stop people-pleasing and practice silence.

About Our Guest

Adriana Vaccaro is the CEO and Founder of Culture Redesigned. She blends behavioral science with real-world business leadership to help organizations and individuals turn values into actions that actually change outcomes.

Connect with Adriana

• Adriana Vaccaro, MBA | LinkedIn
• Culture Redesigned – Building Dream Teams

Work Besties Challenge (Try This This Week)

Pick one moment where you usually “fill the space” to keep things smooth.
 Instead, pause for 3 seconds before responding. Practice silence without over-agreeing.

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Transcript

Kicking Off Authenticity Month

Jess K 0:00

Welcome back to Work Besties Who Podcast, where we help you grow your career with the support only a true Work Bestie can give.

Claude F 0:07

It's February, authenticity and personal branding month. Today we are going deeper than just be yourself because a lot of us want to be ourselves. But we've learned to survive at work by wearing masks. The higher performer masks, the people pleaser mask, the I'm fine mask.

Jess K 0:27

And here's the twist those masks quietly become your personal brand.

Claude F 0:32

Today we are joined by Adriana Baccaro, CEO of founder of Culture Redesign. She combines behavioral science and the real-world business lens, process improvement, HR leadership, and culture strategy to help people turn values into actions that actually change outcomes.

Jess K 0:52

Stay to the end because we're gonna ask Adriana the question that we know every single one of you work besties is secretly wondering. If unmasking feels risky, what's the first mask you should take off? Let's unmask.

Claude F 1:07

Hi, I'm Claude. And I'm Jess. We are corporate employees by day, entrepreneurs by night, and work besties for life.

Jess K 1:16

Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up, laugh through the chaos, and thrive together in every industry. Work besties! Hey, Adriana, thank you for joining us.

Adriana Vaccaro 1:30

Thank you for having me. I am so excited to be here.

What Masks Are And Why We Wear Them

Jess K 1:34

You're founder of the Cultural Redesign. Um, and you work with many, many different individuals to help turn their values into actions. We wanted to first start off by asking what is the most typical type of uh focus that people come to you to work on?

Adriana Vaccaro 1:50

So usually the perfectionist is, you know, what I get the most. They're getting this to this level of burnout and they don't realize they have to let go of that mask. So that is very typical for high performers. And then the other one is the leader that wants people to feel good at work, and they're really trying to create that culture of psychological safety and trust, and they don't know how. And we try to navigate how do we condition the environment so that we can put down all our masks.

Claude F 2:23

So, talking about masks, what does really mean unmasking at work?

Adriana Vaccaro 2:29

Well, let's talk about what a mask is first, right? We all have um a beautiful, wonderful brain, and our brain has the amygdala, so we get easily triggered. And a lot of times we start putting on masks to keep our amygdala under control, to tell ourselves they want an outgoing person, let me put that mask on, or they want a person that doesn't complain, or they want the person that is not looking at the clock because I want to go see my kids. They don't want to see that here, so we put that color mask. So it's a defense mechanism because we think it's what the environment is asking for us. And the main reframe of this work is instead of modifying the human to fit the environment, we want to condition the environment so that the human can be authentic. How many masks are there? I mean, well, what do you think? How many masks have you are you familiar with? If we think about it, there are there are just so many. And in in reality, when we are thinking about what others want, we're basing our behavior on what other people want. We are creating a mask that we put on and we get comfortable with it. And when we were get comfortable with it, we start sort of not forgetting who we are, but we start driving away from our core values, which is not a flowy, easy way to live our life.

Claude F 3:58

More or less it's kind of uh you put the mask to protect yourself from the environment.

Adriana Vaccaro 4:04

Yes, but but you're still there, like we can't even get comfortable with a mask, but our true self is still under it. So when we talk about what's the opposite of a mask, it's not really necessarily only unmasking, it's psychological safety. When when the environment embraces us with all our imperfections, that is when we feel it's okay to say I want to leave work at 5 p.m.

Chameleon Habits And Small Truths

Jess K 4:31

Love how you stated that. First of all, I'm so excited for this topic because I personally feel I relate to wearing masks. Um and I know for myself my mask is being that chameleon or changing based upon the situation that's going on. And the what what you just stated about it being a safety, I it resonates for me because what I do is press the water instead of becoming into a situation and where you have that give and take, I automatically go in to ask questions and make that other person feel comfortable because once they're at ease, then I start to feel like okay, maybe now I can show a little bit of myself, and now I realize why I'm doing it.

Unmasking With Values And Safety

Adriana Vaccaro 5:10

If we are uncomfortable with conflict, that chameleon is sort of a solution because it's easier to agree, right? There was uh a CEO I was coaching at one time, and he has a large national organization, and he will travel to different places and always agree with whatever the director was doing there. So you didn't even notice it at the beginning, but he will go to Minnesota and they love hockey, and he will be like, I also love hockey, like something so small. Um, and then he will go to another state and there he will love baseball or football, or but then when people got together, they will be like, Oh, you know, he loves the brewings, and people are like, he's not a hockey guy, he's a baseball guy. Well, even though it's such a simple, almost irrelevant conversation. Why do you have to love every sport? Why do we think we have to agree with someone else's passion? And it was it was a great place to start creating that strength to say, I love baseball, I appreciate hockey, I understand the game is not my favorite sport, like I will still enjoy a game, but being true to who you are, and we started practicing with that topic, but that gave him the ability to become stronger at saying, I don't like the way you are pursuing this project. It was just creating that comfort.

Claude F 6:40

So now we understand the mask is really to help with that psychological safety. So, how do you get away from like say you can unmask, you're going to be safe? So, how do you achieve that?

Adriana Vaccaro 6:54

Well, I think when we understand our own behavior, and let's say we decide I want to be more authentic about a particular subject, and then I always bring people inwards first because there are two things that will trigger your amygdala: something unaligned or something unfamiliar. So you first have to discern am I masking because my values are not in alignment, so this doesn't feel good for me, or am I masking because it's unfamiliar and maybe this is something that I don't know how to do. So we start there, and obviously, to do that, we need to first know our values, what's important to us, so that we can create that intentional alignment. It's like creating a bridge, you don't have to peel all the layers today and show up to work like everyone. Yes. Because that wouldn't be I hate hockey, everyone. Let's take a different way. I've always hated sports. No, like you know, when you always go the same way to a particular destination and you start taking a different way, it's just creating that level of comfort. So it's not about changing everything in one day, it's becoming comfortable with showing who you really are. And I know that sounds cliche and easy, but if you think about it, it is difficult to be loyal to who you are when you are surrounded by people who might like something different or expect something different from you.

Claude F 8:28

It's like being naked in front of everybody, right? In a way. Yes, absolutely. Well, yeah, that's quite strange.

Jess K 8:36

Yes, my guess. But as you become your your own, you become who you really authentically are. What I love is it's not all at once. Like you can slowly divulge who you really are.

Adriana Vaccaro 8:48

Yes, because it would we will feel too vulnerable if we were totally at once. So we we want to do it in a way that feels confident and in a way that doesn't take away our talents. Every time we are masking, we're also protecting our intellectual brain. So if we're reacting to something, it's either emotionally or intellectually. And when the emotions get bigger, it's almost like we'll we are less intelligent automatically. Especially at work, we want to do this, we want to pace ourselves so that our intellect, we're able to access that prefrontal cortex and still contribute while working on our own safety.

Jess K 9:29

Adriana, I'm I'm curious your perspective on this because we're so focused on the personal branding, but doing it authentically. And this might be me projecting from my younger self. I don't know that I always recognized what I was doing. It wasn't until I had a little bit more experience in life, like the whole chameleon and mirroring back what people were giving to me, not really necessarily being who I fully am. I was the person who said I loved every sort and would go to any game and do all these things. Um I think it took me time and experience. What are some triggers that could help people get to that faster versus getting older?

Adriana Vaccaro 10:06

Yes, I I appreciate your question because as I get older and I do more research and more work in this subject, I look back at who I was, and there is this particular anecdote when I had a job at a laboratory and it was really high stress, high performing. I was uh chief executive officer. So I had to report to a board that had a particular high standard that was almost impossible to meet. And I will see I will see some decisions I had to deliver, and I got used to delivering them. And it took me a moment to go back to what I knew was right. And you know, we weren't doing anything like, oh, why are we doing this? But for example, like terminations, when someone came to work, that it was it was a very numbers-driven culture, so they knew if there was a number that wasn't met, they will go. Because it, you know, as it was my corporate career, and I'm, you know, I'm climbing this ladder, and I became used to it, but it just never felt good for me. So I think that is a great red flag. So I started getting headaches and I started getting tired, and I started hating my job even though I was so good at it. So I think that realization, like, what is happening here? I never realized it while I was there. But I realized now that I was putting the mask of completely black and white um binary thinking. If you didn't meet the number, you have to go. And even though I became comfortable with it, it never felt good. You got to do it.

Claude F 11:50

You want to be desensitized by the whole thing. Yes. That makes sense. But to that point, in that case, because it is the culture, yeah, what can someone do? You're going to you go to the board, this is how they think. It's not like suddenly you can say, Well, you're wrong. It is okay, we should do that. So, what is the alternative?

Jess K 12:12

Why can't you say that?

Claude F 12:13

Or we can, but so what is the alternative?

Fixed Genius vs Growth Mindset Cultures

Adriana Vaccaro 12:16

At 26 years old, maybe I didn't have an alternative. If that happened to me now, I will handle it differently. That is this not this piece of knowledge that I want to share because it's such a powerful piece of information. That is, there are two types of cultures in general. It's a fixed or a genius culture, and that is the culture we have there. And companies like Mackenzie and Fidelity might have that culture, which is we look for the best. We look for rock stars. If you're a rock star, you belong here. We're unique, everyone else has to go. The other culture is a growth mindset where we believe that intelligence and talent are something changeable. That is Google, that is Microsoft, that is Apple. We bring for people that want to commit. And success to us is developing people. So if that happened to me again, I will educate my board on we have to get out of this, I know it all, and get into this, I want to learn it all. Because it's beautiful, it's fascinating. People learn, we see growth. And while you are transforming the culture and the people and the systems, you end up transforming yourself. So it's fascinating work. But at that point in my life, I just didn't know that.

Jess K 13:29

Going back to my younger self, I know for me, in those situations where I felt I didn't feel like myself or felt drained and tired. You knew you weren't doing the right thing. So having the knowledge and the wherewithal after the fact, great. But even in the moment, you know something's off. So maybe to your point, that's the red flag that you say I need to go find someone to talk to you to figure this out.

Adriana Vaccaro 13:55

Absolutely. There is this concept that it has been researched about precognition and it connects to your values. So every time we feel something is, you know, is draining your energy, if you're not getting clear intuition or oh, this is the problem, at least we can start exploring what is it that I know about this situation that is taking my energy. You can you can sort of explore it instead of making an assumption or assuming that you are the problem, because that usually when we feel there is no fluidity, we immediately think we are the problem, not the environment. Right. Really, my work is about telling people let's condition the environment, let's stop conditioning people to show up a particular way or fit a particular mold. Let's create environments where people can come and contribute just as they are, and and maybe connect it, connect them to the idea of developing. That's really how we change that paradigm.

Claude F 14:57

But then I think it depends also at what level you are, right? In a way. Because yes, you can make that you were a CEO in front of the board. I can say from an example in my previous proposition, I mean, it was it was toxic, you had to put a mask because it was not safe. At the end of the day, 13 11 people out of 13 in the department left. But at some point, if you cannot make you you have to cut your loss and leave. Absolutely.

Adriana Vaccaro 15:27

I think we need to put our own mental health first or mental wellness. We also have to remember when someone leaves a toxic environment to go home, we have this myth that oh, I left work at work and I go home, but is it's a comp it's not reality. You go home and you become not the best parent, not the best spouse, not the best human, even to your pets, like you're just not at your best. So I al I always bring that reflection. Let's create environments where people can go home and you know be a better human and not the not the opposite.

Jess K 16:05

No, you're you're where you stand in that situation. Um you bring up a very valid point of like, yes, try. But if it's not going nowhere, then find a way around it.

Conditioning Environments Not People

Adriana Vaccaro 16:18

And on that point, I've seen it too, like people leaving a job, everybody's leaving, and everyone that is coming in is getting to put that new mask, being miserable, and then leave. But the environment is not changing. I think I always try to, when I'm coaching organizations or leaders, you have to transfer this knowledge at all levels. It's not just your executive leadership, it's the is the individual contributor needs to learn this so that when they become a manager, they don't become a toxic manager. Yeah, it's having that readiness in your bench. So every time our boss has a big impact on our life. So putting someone in a position of power that is able to not make it toxic for that person.

Claude F 17:07

Makes me think of something. As managers, how can we make sure that the people we lead do not wear a mask? This is a good question.

Manager Tools To Reduce Masking

Adriana Vaccaro 17:19

Okay, so I'm gonna say understand that we interpret our surroundings based on who we are, and our beautiful brain, even though it's a magnificent muscle bear, is destined to do two things that are not ideal. One, we're not wired for inclusion, we're actually wired to find our people and let go of the rest. So we have to intentionally become the person that creates a connection with each individual. So if you think about it, let's say you have five people reporting to you, because we're human, you will naturally bond easier with two of them. So you have to understand this and work on okay, let me authentically and mindfully bond with this three person, three people in a different way. Okay, you can create a unique relationship with every person reporting to you. That will be one. And then number two, the other thing about the brain is we tend to think that people are logical and we are psychological. So we need to understand that yes, when we are at work, it's about it's about performance and outcomes and all the achievements and things we need to do. But we also need to understand we're working with the emotions of someone else. I always say the three things a manager needs to learn to be a good manager. Know how to land a message, meaning I might deliver it differently to Jess and differently to Claude, right? That's one thing. If you know how to land a message, the next one I will say stay emotionally regulated. Because when our emotions are big, even though I might be a nice person, I'm gonna come across in a way that is gonna signal to that other person, she's not liking me right now. Let me put on a mask and give her what she wants. So stay emotionally regulated. And then the third one I will say is understand your responsibility for the environment. As a manager, you are creating an environment. Just like we have a familial culture at home and we're responsible for whatever people are feeling at home or for that environment. When you are put on a position as a manager, you are responsible for the environment that you're providing for those employees. So it's not, oh, we don't do it that way in this company, or my boss doesn't let me. Is it's your responsibility. It stops with you. You are accountable at that point. Yeah.

Jess K 19:59

I love that. Oh, wow. That that's a lot to unpack and very helpful. It gives you the understanding of where you are in the journey of it.

Adriana Vaccaro 20:09

As you do the work, you start realizing, let's say, as a manager, when I'm thinking about my team, I realize how many masks I'm putting on for my boss. So it keeps you aware of your own masking when you are trying to help people that are working for you take off their masks.

Trust, Message Landing, And Regulation

Claude F 20:29

Being like a safety net, yes, if you will, for them. But then I wonder also is people don't like to be managed the same way, right? Because it depends on your person and everything. So, does it mean that as a manager we kind of put a mask to be able to relate to your people?

Adriana Vaccaro 20:53

Hoping is not a mask. I'm hoping is you staying true to yourself. So you instead of putting on a mask, you are letting them know that you can be yourself and still bond with them, right? Still have a powerful one-on-one. But you stay true to who you are, and they can do the same. In other words, yes, we need to clarify that we're not expecting, like Adriana, I'm not expecting to have a team of five Adrianas. Yeah, that's really the message. You can you can be who you are, and we can be a good team, and we can work together, come you know, beyond all our differences, we can still contribute and achieve something together.

Claude F 21:35

At the end of the day, you learn from everybody, everybody has their own set of mind, and well, but even you yourself are different.

Jess K 21:42

Like I don't think in any of this we're saying you can't have different us or different personalities, right?

Claude F 21:50

It's just a different communication style.

Jess K 21:52

Like you at the end of the day, you shouldn't ever have to wear a mask, yeah. And but you like we were talking about being a people pleaser versus uh Chameleon. Like you shouldn't be doing it for the sake of those things, but it's okay to lean in and help fix something for someone or do X, Y, and Z. That's okay. I think that's the balancing of the two is doing it authentically. Because if you go in knowing I've got five people on my team, two the people it's like easy peasy having conversations. These other three, let me now become the jokester. You're gonna be like, Well, that's just not me. That's not authentic.

Claude F 22:26

And they and the people find out, they'll see.

Jess K 22:29

They're not gonna be nice. Yeah. They're gonna be like, look at that fake manager. What were you going to say? Uh that does bring up an interesting dynamic of when you're in the journey of trying to figure out how to still be authentic, but have those different types of personalities or relationships with these people. Is there a blurring of lines at where you almost are testing out masks to figure out how to be that different?

Adriana Vaccaro 23:05

Let's say we're I'm having a one-on-one with the person that I have the most difficulty communicating with. Our default, because our brain is wired to find our in-bias, like, yes, we are the same. I'm gonna convince you we are the same. That is our default mechanism. Instead of me trying to say, Oh, I love hockey when I don't. Well, well, I do, but for this conversation, yeah, yeah, yeah. Instead of saying something just to send a message that we are the same, how can I land this message again? When you become really good at landing a message, how can I land this that it is attractive for that person? They understand that there are like those three elements of a good message, right? It has to have emotion, it has to have logic, and it has to be authentic. So even if we're completely different, but you see that my logic makes sense, you see that I care about you, I genuinely care. And what I'm asking you to do is not like fly to the moon tomorrow. It makes sense. Like when you deliver that consistently, trust starts building up. There is this uh Francis Frey has this triangle of the things we have to do to create trust with someone, and I love that idea, and it works. I've practiced it myself. When you start delivering those three elements consistently, the other person starts seeing she means that she's not just saying that she she means the message, she really cares, and there is logic behind this. This is why I now understand what we're doing.

Claude F 24:44

Yeah, okay. And she believes in it.

Adriana Vaccaro 24:47

Yes, and doing that it brings greater results, but it's more practical and easier to just put on a mask. It's just not it's just not a sustainable strategy.

From Poetry To Plumbing: Systems And KPIs

Jess K 24:58

Um, Adriana, when people come to work with you, what would they expect?

Adriana Vaccaro 25:03

Well, it depends if I'm working one-on-one or if I'm working with an organization, but in general, the expectation is they get a combination of behavioral science, leadership development, and data analytics. So either as a person or as an organization, I work on let's take those poetic values that we have somewhere, and and we have the poetry, let's work on the plumbing, right? Let's work on the system, let's work on making it real as an organization and as an individual. Let's say I'm working with a manager, you are building a subculture of your team. So it's the same, you need the poetry, but you also need the plumbing. How do we do it? Uh, where are the KPIs? There are leading KPIs and lagging KPIs. When you start building that story with data, when you're having your meetings while authentically caring for the other person, you can still agree to 10 proposals per month and you achieve three. How can I help you achieve the 10? Should we change that number? So having that conversation is what is gonna take us to the next level.

Jess K 26:10

When people start working with you, what type of support or things that they would be expecting?

Adriana Vaccaro 26:16

Yes, they get coaching, they get training, they get their behavioral drives. We use um a platform, we get all the motivators, how to develop themselves, the best way they can develop others. So there is a lot of information that they will keep forever, obviously, and then for a year we stay with them facilitating everything.

Jess K 26:36

A person who likes to fast track of things. A year's a long time. I would love to have a year to get myself back in a managerial shape, but what if I wanted to do something quicker? That is so funny.

Programs, Coaching, And Fast-Track Option

Adriana Vaccaro 26:48

We uh after our last round of certifications, we asked for feedback, and a lot of people said we want to try something in a short period of time. So it's an experiment. It's gonna be the same amount of information, but we're gonna do the certification in a six-hour training. Um, and we're doing that for the first time February 27th. Um, so that we're we're excited about that idea. There still will be information that they get before and after the training, but the majority of the frameworks and everything else they need to get, it'll be a six-hour chunk. We'll see.

Claude F 27:23

Amazing! Yeah, see, that's for you.

Adriana Vaccaro 27:26

That's for me. So, how can they reach out to you? I'm active on LinkedIn, Adriana Vaccaro. Um, also on my website, culturedesign.com. Um, we have all the information about the event coming up there. Um, and also inform even a lot of resources. You can join the newsletter. We use a lot of training hacks and neuroscience techniques. So we we try to provide information that even if you're not ready to commit, at least you're continuously learning.

Claude F 27:54

Great. Well, thank you so much, Adriana. At the beginning, the just promise the big questions.

How To Reach Adriana

Jess K 28:01

So because everyone wants to be more of themselves at work, but let's be honest, severe is real. If unmasking does feel risky, what's the first mask they should take off? That one that will change how people see you the fastest without putting your job at risk.

The First Mask To Drop: People-Pleasing

Adriana Vaccaro 28:16

People pleasing. Embrace silence. Sometimes we think we need to feel every moment agreeing with the person in front of us. And I always invite people to embrace this practice. If you're not agreeing with what is being said and you don't want to actively disagree, silence. Not agreeing. If you don't genuinely love hockey, how about appreciate what they are saying? Don't bring it up, just silence. Is it's a it's a very safe first step.

Silence As A Safe First Step

Jess K 28:57

Adriana, thank you so much for being here. We learned so much. Work besties. Remember, the first mess to try taking off is people visiting. And a safe first step is practicing that silence. So if you enjoyed this episode, follow the show and share it with the friends. See you all next week.

Closing And Next Steps

Claude F 29:15

Hi, I'm Cloud and I'm Jess. We are corporate employees by day, entrepreneurs by night, and work besties for life.

Jess K 29:24

Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up, laugh through the chaos, and thrive together in every industry. Work besties!