Inside Arvada

Inside Arvada's Trails and Open Space with Bob Bromley

• City of Arvada • Season 1 • Episode 28

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Arvada's Open Space Supervisor Bob Bromley shares his 35 years of experience managing the city's trails and natural areas. He explains the ecological approaches used to maintain over 150 miles of hard surface trails and 3,400 acres of open space using sustainable practices.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to Inside Arvada, the City of Arvada's podcast, where we bring you conversations with the people who make Arvada a thriving community. Hear stories about the past, present and future of Arvada through the lens of the city team members who help make it all happen. Explore the complex topics impacting our community, from the roads you drive to the water you drink, the parks where you play to what your neighbors think. Join us as we take you Inside Arvada.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to Inside Arvada, the official podcast of the City of Arvada. I'm Sean Starr, one of your hosts. So glad you're tuning in to today's episode. Our guest is Bob Bromley. Bob's been with the city for 35 years, serving as the open space supervisor for the past five. He started back in 1989 with the city as a part-time parks worker and he's been with the city ever since. And, as always, I'm joined by my co-host, Katie Patterson. Hi, Katie.

Speaker 1:

Hey Sean. Yeah, it was great to have Bob on today. He told us a lot about just the different practices they use, that are different in our trails and how our open spaces are different than our parks. But one of the coolest things was he talked about this new kind of innovative tool they're using to do some kind of weed management and it's like a biocontrol project. Essentially, they're using bugs to try and get rid of weeds, and so he'll explain it a lot more technically than I just said it, but pretty interesting stuff.

Speaker 2:

Hi Bob. Welcome to Inside Arvada. Thanks so much for joining us and being our guest today. Let's begin by telling us a little bit about yourself and your work with the city.

Speaker 3:

All right. Well, thank you for having me. My work for the city is I am the open space supervisor for the parks department. I have been here for 35 years. All of that time I have spent with open space and forestry, and we take care of all of the non-irrigated properties within the city that don't like have turf or sports fields on them.

Speaker 1:

Well, we're really excited to have you today. 35 years is quite an accomplishment, so we're glad to have you. And so we've talked before on the show about our park system, and we have over 100 parks in the city and 96% of residents live within a 10 minute walk of a park. Um, but what about our trail inventory? What does that look like?

Speaker 3:

So we have uh, over 150 miles of hard surface and off uh street trails throughout the city and um, we have over 19 miles of soft surface trails, which is like a crushed rock trail that we maintain. We also have a bunch of major primary trails like Ralston Creek Trail, little Dry Creek, Van Biber and Big Dry Creek is up north now, so we have tons of regional trails.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so those are kind of our main ones. Everyone's familiar with. Ralston Creek Trail is probably the most well-known one, but we have also a series of neighborhood trails that connect within somewhere like a mile long and some are even shorter than that. But a huge selling point, I think, for why a lot of people love living here and move here is the trail network. What about the open space inventory? Because you're also, you know, supervise and manage that part. What does our open space inventory look like? And when you say non-irrigated, help folks understand the difference between an open space property and a park.

Speaker 3:

Okay, so we have a little over 3,400 acres of open space properties which include, like the Patrick property that's out west, the Moore farm, gibbs West, which is behind the Apex Center, and that we try and manage those differently than turf grass, which when people think of parks they're kind of thinking of turf grass which is irrigated. Then that would be like your bluegrass and flower beds and that sort of thing, or bluegrass and flower beds and that sort of thing. We manage open space differently because we rely on weather events for our water. So if we don't get any water our plant profile usually slows down and goes back to dormancy pretty quickly. So that would be the main differences.

Speaker 3:

When we don't get the weather, we'll get this first flush in the springtime from all of the spring rains and snows. We will get a flush of growth right off the bat and then it slows down after it starts warming up because our grasses just don't really hold the moisture in. It's sorry, it's. It's hard to explain because it's just when bluegrass is not irrigated it goes dormant and then it dies.

Speaker 2:

Because it's not meant to grow here, right, correct?

Speaker 3:

It's an outside species, yeah, so native grasses. They actually hold on to that moisture in not only the plant product but in the ground and when we have those drought situations it stores that water and then, once it cools back down, then it'll push more growth. After that it doesn't just die off like bluegrass would, if it doesn't get the regular water on a regular basis.

Speaker 2:

Even though it might look dead or dormant, it's just dormant, it's still alive, still thriving.

Speaker 3:

It's just dormant. It's still alive, still thriving. It's just dormant, yeah and that, but it does still hold that moisture in it.

Speaker 2:

And yeah, those are the grasses that are grow here naturally and are and are supposed to be here, whereas Kentucky bluegrass obviously not Correct Creative to the area. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's similar to what Joe was explaining, I think last time that they do very similar at the golf courses. So it's good to see kind of understand that better, because I think folks experience that and have a different concept of what grass should look like. I think, so we're all kind of like learning this and changing our standards as we evolve. Yeah, right, yeah.

Speaker 2:

What it should look like, right, what our open spaces and our landscapes should look like.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, because we live in a high desert prairie yeah Right. And of course a desert and a prairie don't have turf. Yeah, because we're slowly running out of water and those natural resources. So we have to start doing some conversions from more turf grass to more native grasses and, with our builds and our rebuilds of our parks, that's what we're trying to incorporate.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I know, I think Serenity Ridge has a bunch of native and it's looking fantastic now that it's been open for a little while.

Speaker 1:

New Park by.

Speaker 2:

Red Rocks Community College there, yep, and then I think Marge Roberts is currently under construction, but that's got a lot of native incorporated into it, and then I'm sure there's several others as well.

Speaker 3:

Yes, A lot of the parks. The new builds out west have a lot of native turf interaction, so they're side by side and that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:

Yeah well, um, spring is here and that means this time of year, our trails, open spaces, all that are starting to get busy um, which can come with more conflict zones for different types of travelers on our trails, and so we have some trail etiquette tips. Sean tries to get those out to folks every year. Can you share a little bit about what are some of the tips people should remember when they're using our trails, especially this time of year?

Speaker 3:

Sure, the biggest one is to be courteous of each other. Bike riders should yield to pedestrians and to uh horse riders and and equestrian. So should uh people just walking or or hiking. They need to yield to equestrian as well. Um, so everybody needs to yield to a an equestrian rider, and then bikes yield to pedestrians. So it's just best to slow down. Our speed limit for our trails is 15 miles an hour, whether that's on a e-bike or a pedal bike. No motorized vehicles on our park properties or our trails, but everybody should just remember to slow down and be kind.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a shared space, so, you know, treat it with respect, treat others with respect so everyone can enjoy these, these public spaces. Another one that we'd like to remind folks is keep your dogs on a leash and also pick up after the waste. Why are those so important about the? You know, keeping dogs on a leash and also pick up after the waste. Why are those so important about keeping dogs on a leash and picking up their waste?

Speaker 3:

Well, the dogs being on a leash. There's a lot of reasons for that. It's the safety of not only your animal but other people. You know your animal but they might not know somebody else's animal and there could be a scuffle there. So that's why you want to keep them on a leash. Plus, there could be wildlife out there that you can't see or you don't know that's there, or an equestrian rider, or you know an equestrian rider. If your dog hasn't interacted with a horse, they might not know what that is and either be aggressive or scared or very curious. They might want to go up and sniff and there's a lot of times that the horse could actually get excited and take off.

Speaker 3:

So there's that Picking up after your dog's waste. That's. That's just kind of a common courtesy that people should have for everybody. It can cause E Coli in the water system If there's a bunch of it and nobody cleans it up. It's unsightly. It's not very pleasant to work in that either. Whether it gets on you or a crew member or our equipment, it's pretty unpleasant. So we provide cans at most of our trails. We had the bag dispenser areas attached to some of our signposts which, since we don't use plastic bags anymore. We're relying on the public to kind of replace those bags, which they're doing a great job. And some people still have bags that they bring in and we try and stock those as best we can. But it's just important just to be courteous of other people.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I have to say, for my stormwater team side of things, they really appreciate it because they help manage the water quality in our streams, creeks and ponds and lakes and all of that eventually becomes runoff in there and that's where the E coli becomes a problem and becomes a problem for downstream users who eventually drink that water.

Speaker 2:

And then about the e-bikes Class 1 and Class 2 e-bikes those are allowed. Class 3 e-bikes those are not allowed, as I understand, I think, the Class 3 e-bikes they go faster and so we don't want those out on our trails. So I can link to our webpage on the Trail Et etiquette tips. That provides a little bit more information on that, you know.

Speaker 2:

Another one is just, you know, let someone know that you're passing right, ring a bell, say something. You know, if they have their headphones in and they don't notice you, maybe slow down and get off the trail. And just you know, be courteous, be a kind neighbor. So another reason why we wanted to have you on is, you know, this time of year our native grass and our grasses along our trails start growing, thriving, especially as we get some more rain. And so we wanted to talk to you because we get a lot of questions about when we mow along our trails and why, and so, as I understand, this approach changed maybe about five or so years ago, and so tell us about where we mow along our trails and how often, and the purpose behind that approach.

Speaker 3:

Okay, we've been looking at the benefits of more natural spaces and their ability to self-generate and to keep the moisture in the ground which we really need here, because our soils here, just in Arbat, are not best not best. So again, going back to being different than turf, if you mow native grasses too often and too short, you don't get the natural ability for those plants to repopulate themselves, again needing to be in a high prairie. Through nature, nature pushes the growth, the plants go to seed and then in the fall they drop seed and they reseed themselves and they repopulate the area. So if we're mowing those grasses, we're taking the moisture out of the ground, we're taking it out of the plant, we are causing those plants to not be able to regenerate themselves, and that's that's a big part of native grasses is the need for them to regenerate, get to maturity, before we do most of our, our maintenance.

Speaker 3:

Um, so we try and get out and we do our mowing after we get our first big flush of the year when temperatures it's usually soil temperatures over 50 degrees or that, when we start seeing a lot of growth that's pushed and we do along the trails and then along fence lines as a courtesy to people so that you can get off the sidewalk. If you have a equestrian person come by or a bike or somebody with a dog, we do those so that you could get your dog possibly off the sidewalk so that they can do their business there and and you have the ability to pick that up and take it to the next can or so. Um, but the our, our grasses differ, you know, with that too frequent mowing or too low of mowing. Um, it's just not sustainable for those plants.

Speaker 2:

And that you do the trail cut and then you do the courtesy cut along fence lines but then the kind of the space between that, like the greenway. That's the part that we're leaving until the fall right. Correct, yeah.

Speaker 3:

So we leave that to try and help our plants to repopulate in each other. Uh, we do have a overseeding program that we try and go to Um. You can tell a big difference throughout the year where we have mowed next to the path or the fence lines compared to the areas that we've left non-mowed. It's a real big difference there. So we do have a lot of weeds and unwanted vegetation that move into those areas because there's nothing to compete with their growth and with their growth I mean the weeds. If you have a really healthy stand of native grasses, it crowds out the weeds and so we don't have a lot of weed problems in those areas that we have not mowed. Yeah, there might be a few here and there, but we go through and we try and mitigate those. On a slight basis.

Speaker 2:

And then, how regularly are you able because you have a very small crew for the amount of land that you're responsible for maintaining, I do when you are doing those trail cuts, how often are you able to get to those? Throughout the city, 150 miles of trails, it probably takes a while to get through them once. So if I've got a trail on my house or that I frequent and I noticed it hasn't been mowed, or in a while like, what sort of frequency of mowing do folk can folks expect for those, uh, trail cuts?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so we try and and get out there every six to eight weeks. Um again, that depends on it could be sooner. Um really depends on whether um the equipment running correctly and us not having any breakdowns or personnel Um cause everybody likes to take some time off here and there and um have a vacation as well. Um, so it's. It just depends on a lot of factors. For us it could be we get a small push this spring because we've had a little bit of moisture, and then we'll mow and we won't be back for a while because it's just not growing.

Speaker 3:

We typically mow our native grasses at five inches hot. We typically mow our native grasses at five inches hot, whereas turf is usually anywhere between an inch and a half to three inches is where they do Kentucky bluegrass type turf and those are cut every week. The parks and the athletic fields are cut once a week and the athletic fields are cut once a week. Sometimes athletic fields have to be cut more just because they are a higher use and some of the user groups you know you don't want to clump a grass, so if we cut it more often, we're not cutting off more than a third of the plant, because that's always detrimental if you cut off more than a third of your plant product, which would explain if you're not getting that growth.

Speaker 2:

You're not just going to go back out there just because it's time, right, correct, yeah. And then another thing I wanted to ask you about, too, is just the size of your crew is what I have four people including a lead position, that he's kind of the infield supervisor guy.

Speaker 3:

I try and get out with my guys as much as I can. I'm going to try and do a little bit more of that this year. And then we have our seasonal staff that we hire throughout the year, but again that depends on budget aspects or people actually wanted to do work, which has been really hard. Just having people want to come in and work. It's. It's been really difficult the last few years and then one more point I wanted to bring up.

Speaker 2:

There are sections of long fences and trails that we can't safely access right Because we're using some fairly large equipment a lot of times to make these courtesy cuts, and so if you notice a section that isn't mowed at all, it's because it's not safe to have that equipment there.

Speaker 3:

Yes, so we definitely have a very robust safety program. We have areas that are included in those areas that we cannot mow because of access. Also have areas that we have been out and measured as far as the degree on that slope per the manufacturer's recommendations on the mowers and and and our own internal policies that we are not going to put a piece of equipment on those um so that we don't have an accident. We don't have anything happen to any of our people. You know we try and make sure that everybody is as safe as possible at all times when we're at work.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's always important. I know everybody in the city takes safety really seriously. You know everybody in the city takes safety really seriously and so, talking about grasses and mowing, that's one practice that you've really talked about being a way to be more efficient and environmentally friendly. What are some other?

Speaker 3:

initiatives that you and your team have going on to be more efficient. So we have been looking into some biocontrol, which would be some beetles or mites, some other ways of us controlling larger populations of noxious weeds. Um, we've kind of instituted some uh grazing for some of our properties, um, for that same weed mitigation and and grass mitigation for, um the purpose of not being able to get into those areas to mow them because they're either too large or inaccessible for us. But animals, you know, they don't have to follow guidelines for stuff so they they can go wherever they want.

Speaker 3:

But I'm pretty excited about the biocontrol aspect. I'm working with the state department of ag for those different areas and we don't have like massive infestations of really bad plants. We we have some, but I'm trying to make sure that we don't get to that point where we are just really inundated with those those plants so that we have to do other, you know, with those plants so that we have to do other chemical treatments or labor-intensive treatments for those things. So I'm pretty excited to continue of research and then they help say like yep, these types of bugs essentially will help you mitigate.

Speaker 1:

Yes, whatever you're seeing yes.

Speaker 3:

so, um, first we have to go out and we have to do like an inventory and and see, okay, we have this population, say, of leafy spurge in part of the park system or the open space system. Is it large enough to support a biocontrol agent or is it just small enough that we should chemically treat it or we should physically cultivate it out or over plant? So that's like our first step. Then it's going out there and making sure that when we do get the, the bugs that we, we place them at the time and the place that it's not going to be, you know, middle of the day, with no cover and and that there so there's guidelines that they send with the uh bio, middle of the day, with no cover and and that there so there's guidelines that they send with the uh bio controls of when you're supposed to put them out. And then hopefully, since we started last year, those populations with that were put out, we'll start growing and they'll they'll spread out on their own or we can actually capture some of those and take them to another area that might have that infestation of the weeds.

Speaker 3:

So I'm pretty excited. It usually takes same thing as with native grass conversions and or plantings Takes three to five years. Um. Plantings takes three to five years. Um, nothing's on a a do it quick and immediate satisfaction. It's always so. Um. We will continue to monitor those areas and keep up with making sure that we we use those um and and other biocontrols. They come up with, uh, different biocontrols all the time for different species, so I'm excited to be like, hey, you know, let's try this one.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, um just in case. So you just put the order in and they mail you like a thing of bugs, right?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so they, they, uh they, uh, they ship a container, a styrofoam cooler container. They ship it overnight and if you can't put them out the next day, you know you put it in the refrigerator and it keeps them dormant. And then, first the break of day, you know I'm usually out there, um, opening the box and and getting them put in where where we want to put them in. And then, um, I marked that on our GIS and, and so that we can go back and if I'm not available, somebody else can look that up on our GIS and be like, hey, yeah, this is where we we need to go check this and and go from there. So, um, yeah, that's, that's pretty much all it is, and it's, I mean, I have to pay for shipping, yeah.

Speaker 3:

But that's it but yeah it's a great perk to having the state do that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome to know that. You know you're just keeping up with the latest trends in the industry and trying to always think of new ways to do things more efficiently and more eco-friendly. Going back to the mowing, that approach is not unique to Arvada, right, it's similar to what a lot of other municipalities do in terms of trail cuts and open space cuts, and so we're right on the cutting edge of what a lot of other places around the Metro area are doing. So, um, finally, we we wrap up before we move on to lightning around with, uh, a question that we ask every guest is what sort of misconceptions or clarifications would you like to clear up, um, about the work that you do?

Speaker 3:

About the work that you do. I think the biggest one is that when people look out at open space because they're not familiar with the plant life that's there, they are like, oh, it's just a field of weeds, which it's really not. There's a lot of different grasses and plant life that grow in open space areas that are more native than what they think and that's what's supposed to be here.

Speaker 2:

So I think that's the biggest one, yeah, and then if I live right along the trail or in the greenway, my fence backs up to it. How should I treat the property right behind my fence, the area that is considered open space? I know there's some tips that we like to give those folks, because some people think they're helping us out by perhaps helping us mow that area or, you know, plant some items. I mean, what are some? What do we want to tell folks that back up to the green space there?

Speaker 3:

That that I mean, it's, it's, we will be back there to maintain it. Yeah, it just takes us a while to get there, to not dump their grass clippings behind their home or to mow those areas behind their home. Um, because most homeowner mowers and stuff are not set up to to be at the height that that we need to have. Um, and then to you know, give us that opportunity to take care of these areas. Um, it does take us a while and we are aware of everything grows at the same time, but we can't be at every place at the same time. So that's our biggest issue.

Speaker 3:

You know, don't plant trees or shrubs behind your home. If you want to plant trees and shrubs, they should be in their yard. Yeah, um, you know, I liken it to. I want to plant a tree in my neighbor's yard. Right, because we all want to be good neighbors. There's a time and a place for that. We have a plant a tree program that is run through the forestry department. If somebody wants to plant a tree in a park, again that would have to go into a park because there's supplemental water for the turf and the trees, whereas we can't really plant those in open space areas because we don't have that supplemental water and the tree will eventually die.

Speaker 2:

We have a new plant, a tree page that will be live here soon, so we have an improved process for folks interested in that, and we also have a page that provides some of these guidelines of what you should and shouldn't do for those open space areas. So thanks for touching on that. I think we're ready for the lightning round.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, let's do it so. Quick questions for folks to get to know you a little better. What is your?

Speaker 3:

favorite thing about Arvada Um, it's home, Um. So I live here, I work here, I was born and raised here, Um, and it's just a really good community and that. So I think that's just, it's just a good community. It's good to be part of it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, agreed, uh, first, last or best concert.

Speaker 3:

My first, best and last concert was all in the same thing. No way, cause I'm not a concert person.

Speaker 2:

One and done.

Speaker 3:

Yes, uh, it was uh the Beach Boys and Southside Johnny Wow.

Speaker 2:

I was going to say, maybe you didn't see a good band, but the Beach Boys are great. So it's just not your, not your thing it's I.

Speaker 3:

I'm just not a big crowds person. Okay, yeah, fair.

Speaker 1:

Um, what brought you to Arvada, as you just told us, birth your parents, yeah.

Speaker 3:

So, uh, it was just where we were born and raised, where you've always been Yep.

Speaker 1:

What was your first job?

Speaker 3:

My first job, I mowed lawns and took care of people's lawns in the neighborhood.

Speaker 1:

It was destiny.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it was that. I've, you know, I've, I've done, you know the food industry. Growing up and going through high school, that stuff, I worked for the same construction company that my dad was a superintendent for and found out pretty quickly that construction was not going to be for me because I was the boss's kid, yeah, and that, and I just kind of fell into working here.

Speaker 1:

Nice. What's been your favorite project you've done with the city?

Speaker 3:

Boy, I have a few 35 years, yeah, 35 years.

Speaker 3:

Unfortunately, one of them is the Jessica Ridgeway Memorial. My crew was a big part of the installation and the placement of that memorial for her, so it's pretty nice to be able to do something like that. Just as a personal aspect and professional, um, I also really like our training program. Uh, we have a uh in-house uh equipment training program that we really really take seriously and, um, I teach all of the guys about tractors and implements and that kind of stuff. So I really enjoy those two days.

Speaker 2:

The safety rodeo right Is that?

Speaker 3:

what you're talking about.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we have a video that I can link in the show notes that we did a couple years ago and it's such a cool idea because, yeah, you get a whole team out there, a big parking lot, and everyone learns from the experts like yourself, who have been with the city for decades, on how to properly and safely run all the various different types of equipment that you use. So very cool project, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming on today.

Speaker 3:

Bob, it's great to have you, yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

And, as always, we love to hear from you, all our listeners, and you can stay in touch with us. Send us a text with the link right there at the top of the show notes or email us at podcast at Arvadaorg. We love to hear your feedback If you have any questions for Bob. From today and then some upcoming news and events. So, mayor Lauren Simpson, you recently did the annual State of the City Address and that recording is now available on the city's YouTube channel. We'll link to that in the show notes.

Speaker 1:

An update on the city manager process we had a public meet and greet with the three finalists on April 10th and then the next day city council held interviews with those three candidates and they did make a selection.

Speaker 1:

They selected Don Wick as the final candidate through that process, and so the next steps are for city council to vote on that selection at an upcoming business meeting and then. That meeting hasn't happened yet, but we'll link to more information in the show notes. As always and I mentioned a while back that Resource Central does Garden in the Box program that the city provides discounts on those gardens those have sold out for the spring, but this time, for the first time, we will have a fall discount on fall Garden in the Boxes, and so if you missed out on the spring discounts and you're just starting to think about your gardening plans for the year, think about signing up for their interest list at resourcecentralorg slash garden. And, as always, we also still have the other programs available, which is the lawn replacement and free sprinkler evaluation programs, and we'll link to those as well in the show notes.

Speaker 2:

Speaking of lawns and gardens, the Majestic View Nature Center is still looking for hosts for its annual pollinator garden tour. The tour is in July, but they're looking for hosts to sign up now. So if you have an example at your house of a pollinator-friendly habitat or garden or a lawn or a space around your house, reach out to the Majestic View Nature Center and sign up to be a host. We'll link to that in the show notes as well. And then, finally, the city is hosting its 39th annual Arbor Day tree planting. Coming up here this year we're partnering with Seacrest Elementary School planting trees at Homestead Park, and this tree planting celebration is part of the city's earning its Tree City USA recognition from the Arbor Day Foundation, which it'll be 34 straight years now earning that designation. So that's such a cool tradition and I'm glad it's a sure sign of spring when we're doing the Arbor Day planting. Thank you again to our guest today, bob Bromley.

Speaker 2:

Be sure to catch our next episode featuring Sam Rogers, our floodplain and stormwater engineer, who's also managing the Ralston Creek at Croke Canal Improvement Project over near the Westwoods Golf Course. To stay in touch with the podcast, you can visit our website at arvadagov slash podcast, where you can subscribe on any number of platforms and you can always reach out at podcastarvadaorg to ask questions or provide feedback. Thank you, everyone who is listening. As a reminder, please subscribe, rate and review, and today's podcast was, as always, recorded and edited by Arvada Media Services. I don't have a phone. I don't have a fun fact muah muah.