Inside Arvada

Inside Arvada's Changes to the W. 72nd Avenue Project

• City of Arvada • Episode 47

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Deputy City Manager Allison Scheck joins us to talk through why the City has decided not to move forward with the underpass for the W 72nd project, how the decision was made, and what comes next for the corridor. 

In this episode: 

  • Project cost escalation, delays, and bond funding explained
  • Options considered for completing the project
  • What's next for the project corridor in 2026 and for the long term
  • More information, including FAQs and a recording of the Feb. 2 open house information, available on the W 72nd project webpage

News & Events

Visit us at arvadaco.gov/podcast or email us at podcast@arvada.org.

SPEAKER_01

Hello and welcome to Inside Arvada, the official podcast of the City of Arvada. I'm Sean Starv, one of your hosts, and today our guest is Deputy City Manager Allison Scheck, and Allison joins us to talk about updates to the West 72nd Avenue project. Allie joined the city as the Deputy City Manager in the September of last year. She previously served as the Deputy City Manager for the City of Wheat Ridge and has more than 20 years experience in both public and private sector leadership. Allie has a master's in public administration from CU Denver and a BA in organization communication from MSU Denver. And as always, I'm joined by my co-host, Katie Patterson. Hi, Katie.

SPEAKER_00

Hey Sean. Yeah, um, really appreciate Allie coming on. Um, great for our listeners to get to hear from one of our city leaders about something that was a really tough decision to cancel the center pass. Um, a project that is, for our longtime listeners, probably know, near and dear to my heart as the infrastructure communications person. This is a project that I work directly on for the communication. So really appreciate her insight into this decision.

SPEAKER_01

Hi, Allie. Welcome to Inside Arvada. Thanks so much for joining us. Uh let's begin by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do for the city.

Why The Underpass Was Canceled

SPEAKER_02

Sure. Hi, Sean. Hi, Katie. Thanks so much for having me. Um I am the deputy city manager here in Arvada, and I live in Arvada, so this is my community, and um, I just love public service and feel really fortunate to be working in my own community. That's amazing. Um, so my role as deputy city manager, I it's the best job in the world. It's number two, it's great. Um, and I work really closely. I oversee the infrastructure, um, the community and economic development, and the vibrant community and neighborhoods work system. So that's our fancy way of saying pucks, golf trails, open space. Sean stuff. You've got all the Sean stuff. And I also work on homelessness. Yeah. So I work on a lot of the public-facing services.

SPEAKER_01

You got the correct communities and community and neighborhoods correctly, singular and plural. So very good. And I've messed up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, we wanted to have you on now because the city just recently announced that they are canceling the underpass portion of the West 72nd Widening Project. And so that was a big decision and um not an expected one by our community. And that was largely due to the escalating costs. So can you just tell us a little bit more about why the city made that decision and and how we made that decision?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, thanks, Katie. I'll say this was really, really tough. This is one of those really hard decisions. Um, yeah, I mean, it comes unfortunately, it just comes down to costs. This original estimate for this was um back in 2018 when we passed a ballot measure. The voters voted on this project with a bond, and we'll talk about that in a little bit, was$64.5 million. And then, you know, we we expected some cost escalation. The sort of next best estimate we got was$97.5 million. But um right when we got to 100% design and we got that final guaranteed maximum price, that came to$137 million. So double the original estimate that our community was expecting when they voted um on the on the project. Um, and so with that, the staff team, the city manager, city council determined that this is just not the financially prudent thing to do. Um, and we could not afford, it wasn't the right thing to do with our funds to fund the underpass at that cost. It would just mean canceling so many other projects and programs and services that are really critical to our residents.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and before we get any further into some of the more details on the decision and what happens next, help us understand these bonds and how we got that funding because I think that's some misconceptions that a lot of folks aren't entirely sure about. Like you mentioned, it was a ballot measure passed to fund these projects through bonds. What is a bond? Aaron Powell Sure.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, let's talk about that. So a municipal bond is a type of debt that state and local governments are allowed to issue. Um they're essentially loans where buyers of the bonds loan the governmental entity, in this case, us, the city of Arvada, money for a project, and in exchange they get interest, and of course, they get their principal back. Um so this kind of debt requires a vote of Arvada residents. And in this case, Arvada residents approved the bond in 2018. And that election um allowing the city to take on 79.8 million in debt to finance the widening on 72nd from Kipling to Sims and uh work that is completed, and it's wonderful, on Ralston Road from Yukon to Garrison. So the one thing I just want to point out here, Sean, is that um this bond did not include a tax increase. So the the money to repay the investors, their principal and interest, was money that the city already had, and that was budgeted. Um, so I think we're hearing from the community some questions around um, okay, but you know, what happens to any remaining funds? And there's some some choices. At this point, we will be using some money this year in 2026 to restore the corridor uh from Oak to Kipling, the part that hasn't been done yet, um, to repave it. And we'll we'll talk about that. But, you know, so there is some work to do to clean up. Um and then what we could do is hold on to the rest of those funds until we determine uh what we what will happen on West 72nd. And if it's determined that um other improvements are too expensive, we could use that money to repay the investors early.

SPEAKER_01

Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, I think a lot of people assume because it had to go to the ballot, it had to go to a vote, then that means tax increase, because that's sometimes the case, but it was not the case for this.

SPEAKER_00

No, we used our existing money to pay that back. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks for clearing that up.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and then uh worth noting that some of that uh 79 million was also spent on 72nd, because they did complete the portion of the project from Oak to Sims. Absolutely. Um that was completed as well. Uh and so then talk us through a little bit more how how we came to these significant cost increases. What was happening and how did we kind of not catch this sooner?

How Costs Escalated So Fast

SPEAKER_02

Sure, yeah. Several factors um come into play in this. So the first thing I'll talk about is something we've all been experiencing in our own lives, and that's inflation. Um, but inflation in the transportation and construction industry has been particularly extreme. Um in fact, the Colorado indices uh in this industry show a 9% annual inflation since 20 um 18 when the bond was approved, um, compared to the historical uh average of 2.6 percent. So, you know, that's that's huge. Yeah, that's three times kind of your average inflation expectation there. And so, you know, and and so what really what was happening at the same time was a double whammy. Sure, costs got it got more expensive, but we had some really big delays, unfortunately, due to our work with the Union Pacific Railroad. Um, those approvals, um, that's their railroad crossing. And so the approvals to get the underpass plans you know to approved just took three years longer than we expected during this time of extreme inflation. So, again, talk about a double whammy. Um so while discussions have been underway for years, these approvals delayed this phase. We call it phase three. The underpass was phase three of the project by over three years. And, you know, these costs just continued to rise. Um, the underpass itself, that project was supposed to start right when we were finishing the other whitening that you talked about earlier, Katie, from Oak to Sims. So that the project just would have continued. But unfortunately, we didn't have the approvals. So uh the crews had to completely demobilize, and you have a lot of cost around demobilization and the remobilization to get the project going again. So, you know, things stalled.

SPEAKER_00

Um and it's worth noting that the that was for final design approvals. Like they had been working through these approvals since before 2018 ballot, too. So like they have to do these rounds of approvals with the railroad um long before these those last three years of delays, even. And all of that was just compounding over time. Um, and so it wasn't like, you know, we didn't have approvals from the railroad in 2018, and then all of a sudden we decided we couldn't do this project because costs were so escalated. We did have a partnership that was in progress there. Um, but it just was, you know, became significantly more challenging later into that, those approval designs. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

And the PUC ultimately, the Public Utilities Commission, gave us that approval in the end in the fall of 2025. And then we were able to proceed with the final estimate. And that's when we learned of the escalating costs. We we knew that they that we were gonna exceed that 97 million. We we knew we were predicting um that there would be an escalation there and we were prepared for that. We were not prepared for$40 million extra. And again, determined it's just not the right thing um for the community. So I'll I'll also add that um cost estimating on these types of projects is just is is inherently different difficult. We made these original estimates almost a decade ago. And you know, without predicting some of the really big global challenges that have um that we've all experienced, including the pandemic and tariffs. Um, so we the team is working really hard on different uh strategies for better estimating so that we don't find ourselves in this position again.

Funding Options We Considered

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so many converging factors kind of all happen at once to get us where we're at and making this very difficult decision for staff and for council. And I before you know we kind of ended up where we're at now, I'm sure that there was a lot of effort into being like, all right, let's try to make this work. What sort of funding strategies did the city manager's office kind of contemplate and look over to continue and make this project happen because we were, you know, we were so close to starting it?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Thanks, Sean. Um we considered everything from cash funding this. Arvada is in a really in a is in a very sound financial position. Uh we are very fortunate. We have an incredible finance team, and we we do tenure modeling on our budget, which um is is very conservative and and protects us well as a community, and I want our listeners to know that.

SPEAKER_01

Um we have a podcast with our CFO, uh Brian Archer, and so we can link that back to I feel like every episode now we're like there's an episode we can go back to, but you talked all about the tenure model.

SPEAKER_02

So the tenure model is uh from my perspective unique. I've worked in three other cities, and that's unique here in Arvada, yeah, and it's it's really great. Um but we considered everything from cash funding it actually to issuing almost all of that, the delta through with debt, and then everything um everything in between. So to to cash fund it, you know, to pay for it all, we we are talking about major cancellations of other projects, programs, services, initiatives, positions that then provide those services to the community that our residents and our businesses are counting on. Um and so we looked at different varying degrees of both of those. All cash, no more debt, um, all debt, no more cash, some cash, some debt, again in varying degrees. Um, but to give some examples of projects that would have been uh canceled or cut depending on what level we were, you know, we were looking at, those range the gamut from repaving streets, which is you know, number two on our community's uh list of things we need to improve, the conditions of our roads, um depending on which survey we you know we're looking at. It's always in the top three. Um so you know, cancel re repaving projects, traffic signal improvements, um, those would have been canceled or significantly reduced in scope, new playgrounds, again, filling vacant positions um in order to deliver services. And so again, that's where we look to can we do it? Yeah. Should we do it?

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

And the answer was no. It's not the right thing to do.

What Happens Next On 72nd

SPEAKER_01

It doesn't make sense to take out all those other projects and take time and effort away and funding and sources to all those other things just so we can make this one project happen. So difficult decision, but it makes sense on why we have to make it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And um and so now they're looking at kind of what happens next. There is still some of the bond funds left, and um that r road, as you mentioned, is kind of in this interim condit condition. They haven't been given it maybe as much love as it needs since they knew this work was coming. Um so what can people look for going forward on 72nd?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, thanks, Katie. So you're right. Interim condition, and I'm not an engineer, but we've been talking a lot about what an interim condition is. And right now, interim condition on 72nd means it still looks a little bit like a construction site. You know, cars are driving through it, but we didn't tick and tie and tidy up everything because we knew we would be back. So this year we are going to do that. We're gonna clean up, we're gonna repave from Kipling to Oak. Um, and we just had a community meeting this week where I think we had some really good ideas and thoughts around things, things that just need to happen right now to make this feel safe, look good, um, and work for the community while we figure out our next step. So, like I said, we're gonna use some of the bond money to repave and um take it out of the interim condition. And while we do that, we're also gonna work on the feasibility of an at-grade widening. So, right now, right, like you said, Katie, we've widened Oak to Sims. But when you're coming from Kipling, you've got two lanes each direction, and then it narrows right before the railroad track, and then it widens again at Oak. And so what we want to do, and what the what we heard from our community this week at a at a public meeting was yeah, it's important. Let's see if we can't widen um the railroad crossing. That there's no promises there. That will again begin. It's a whole new project. It's a whole new project with the railroad. Um, that's their crossing. And we'll need to see if that's feasible. And it could take five to ten years, and we need to be really realistic about what the cost might look like at that time. But that is the goal, and we're gonna start working on it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we heard talked about at the um community meeting like that this is a new project, and that means new engineering designs at all these different levels of design. There's 30, 60, 90, 100% designs, and at each phase, at each touch point, you have to go back to the railroad and get that design approved. And so it is a longer process than folks might think. It's not just like slap some pavement down and widen the road. Um, it's quite a bit more complicated to really do that engineering design.

SPEAKER_02

It is, but we're committed to it, right? We're committed to the intent of that uh ballot measure, which was to improve improve traffic flow and safety on 72nd. And you know, the new part that's open does that beautifully. And what we just need to do now is make sure that we're connecting that all the way from Kipling.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Definitely. We're gonna dust off the old lightning round here in a bit, but before we do that, uh we like to ask our guests uh an opportunity to clear up some misconceptions or set the record straight or maybe reiterate some points about what we talked about today. So the floor is yours. Allie, what do you want to clear up or um you know, reiterate again?

Setting The Record Straight

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Ross Powell Okay, thanks, Sean. Yeah, I I think I'd just like to let folks know that, you know, we're not alone here in Nevada in facing these challenges. Um a number of our neighbors here in the metro area, and statewide and nationally, have run into substantial cost increases in projects in the last few years. You know, many were well into their projects when they discovered all the additional costs and had to find the funding and had to make those tough decisions and cut other things. Others reduced their scope significantly, and some canceled projects altogether. And as an example, CDOT has modified their plans on the Floyd Hill project, which is really very visible and public around here in Arvada, um, due to those same cost escalations. We did not want that to happen. When we started digging under the railroad, there was no going back. And that was one of the considerations actually in saying we need to cancel this. Um, things could have got worse in terms of the cost. Um you know, Denver and the state are experiencing budget shortfalls, and uh we don't want to put ourselves in that position. And like I said, Arvada's in a really good spot, so I hope our listeners do decide to listen to Brian's podcast if they haven't, our CFO, to learn more about how we do take a fiscally conservative approach here in Arvada, and it's put us into a really good position to do things and to provide services. So the other thing I just would love to share is I just want to reiterate how hard of a decision this was. Um it's hard to walk away from something you've promised. And we really um, I mean, there were a lot of sleepless nights not looking for sympathy, but you know, all the way from our um our staff to to our council, this is tough. And I don't want anyone in the community um thinking that this was this, these were easy conversations. Um, they weren't. And the other thing I'll say is that uh transparency is a very important value here in Arvada. And I just want to make sure our listeners know there's so much information on this on our website at ArvadaCo.gov. There's a really great project page, uh, the West72nd Mon project page. And there's a great video on there. There's lots of really great materials. So all of the there's there's more information than at your fingertips, and you could ask for to really, you know, look further into what was happening on West 72nd and why this decision was made.

Lightning Round: Allie’s Story

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and for our listeners, if they have specific questions, there's both a um a survey that's open, like a comment card essentially, through um March 1st. And so that'll be available if folks have project-specific questions. We're kind of gathering things there that might r bubble up to be kind of FAQs. Um we already have quite a bit of FAQs on there, but there you never know when there's more. Um and so that's on that page. A link to that um survey form is on that page as well. As well as our listeners know they can reach out to us and we'll try and get the answers for them. That's great. Thanks, Katie. Yeah. Um, so our kind of redefined lightning round, I guess, is what we're gonna do. Thanks for not doing trivia. I was really worried about what trivia was gonna look like on this.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, we could have done some like railroad related stuff or boss.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it didn't feel like fun trivia. Um and so instead, we are gonna bring back our lightning round in a different format. Just three relatively quick questions for folks to kind of get to know you a little bit better. That sounds great. Okay, so you mentioned at the beginning that you love public service. Yeah. What drew you to public service? Yeah, I just love it. Local government's where it's at, right?

SPEAKER_02

Don't you agree? Okay, good. Um it's just so rewarding to be able to, you know, see your community, your work in action in your community. And like I said, I've been with the city now about four and a half months, lived in Arvada almost the entire time I've lived in the States. Um, and to get to actually serve my own community is just really, really special and kind of see things um just right in front of me that I've been working on. Um, I started in local government, I went to the private sector for about 10 years, and I had a great career there managing sports and arts venues. It was great, but I really did miss the rewarding nature of serving in local government where every day is different, right? Absolutely. Am I right? Every day is so different. We're solving problems that really matter to someone, right? Whether that's someone you run into at the grocery store or someone out on the trail, um, the things we do matter to p to our neighbors. And um, I just feel really fortunate that I get to do that here.

SPEAKER_01

I was gonna say it it's a privilege, I think, to serve the community you also live in. It's it's really neat.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, you definitely get an inside uh or a deeper look into how the projects that we do and the work behind the scenes matters for folks. Yeah. Um okay, if you could have dinner with one person, past or present, who would it be and why?

SPEAKER_02

Well, again, as a Brit, it's kind of funny, right? But I am really fascinated by Abigail Adams. So um I when I became um a US citizen, I I did my homework and ever since, and I'll tell you, Hamilton helped as well. I'm a big Broadway person. Definitely Hamilton helped. But you know, the the founding fathers are just fascinating and how this country came to be. Um but I would love to have dinner with Abigail Adams. My daughter is actually called Abigail. Oh I would say that's influenced by Abigail Adams. No, I mean, you know, I'm a bit of a fan. I just think some of the early first ladies are really fascinating. Um, but you know, she was the closest advisor to the second president, her husband, right? John Adams of the US. Yeah. She was a big partner. These women were instrumental actually in their husband's success. And honestly, I would say in their success. Um, she was an investor, she advocated for women's rights. You know, her husband, we'll just say John, Mr. Adams, he was abroad a lot. He was an ambassador to the UK and to France, and she um, you know, had to raise her kids through a plague, um, just really, really independent. I think she was just a voice of reason um in this weird frenemy relationship between Adams and Jefferson. She was sort of this peacemaker, and I just I just think she's awesome. I think she's a really a role model. Um, I'd love my daughter to meet her. Great answer.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a very unique answer. Totally. I love it. Um and then what's one thing that folks might be surprised to learn about you?

SPEAKER_02

Okay, well, I've given uh sometimes my accent's really American, so I don't think it was on this podcast today. Yeah, yeah. I just had coffee with a Brit. Very good. Yeah, so give me that. Um I was a child actress.

SPEAKER_01

No way.

SPEAKER_02

I was, yeah. And I um in my uh childhood, Tomas is like, what? Oh my friend that's here. Um I played Annie would be a good example of a part professionally. I was in commercials, I worked with the Royal Shakespeare Company, and um had a pretty decent career as a as a child actress, and then said, Yeah, I've had enough of that, and I want to be a normal kid and my poor. Parents who had been chaperoning me and taking me to all these auditions were either very relieved, probably at that point, or very disappointed. I'm not sure which.

SPEAKER_01

You have such an outgoing personality that I could I can see it fit. But I might have to do some Google sleuth thing. Is there anything like online that we can do? This is like all pre-internet, I think.

SPEAKER_00

You never know what you can do.

SPEAKER_01

That's great though. And yeah, in the uh UK, you were born there and that explains the accent.

SPEAKER_02

And then when you came over, you've lived in the States now for 20 going on 20, 29 years this summer. Okay. Yeah. So normally I have this, I I've sort of my accent comes and goes. Um when I worked in the private sector, I was I worked for Cronky Sports and I was taught two-way radios all the time. And I think having to repeat myself beat the accent out of me. So every now and then it comes back.

SPEAKER_01

Isn't it funny though you have just one conversation with someone that speaks like that and it kind of comes back? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

A local pastor was just meeting uh from a local church uh to connect today. We had we met for coffee and uh lo and behold, he's a Brit. So instant bestie. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I love it. And it's one of the most charming accents. I love it. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you, Sean. I like yours.

SPEAKER_01

I always say Colorado people don't have accents, right? We kind of just speak maybe a little southern, some people have said, but it's quite neutral.

SPEAKER_02

Mine is too actually from the UK. Sussex is pretty, you know, because we've got wild accents everywhere. But uh let me ask you, is it Arvada? Arvada?

SPEAKER_01

Arvada. It's Arvada.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like Nevada.

SPEAKER_01

That's a s a sure sign that someone is not from Colorado, I feel like, if they say Arvada. Arvada. So from the UK.

SPEAKER_00

Well, Ali, thanks so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_02

We really appreciate it. Thank you, Katie. Thank you, Sean. This is great. Honored to be invited.

SPEAKER_01

As a reminder, we love hearing from our listeners, and you can stay in touch by texting us using the link at the top of the show notes, or you can also reach out via email at podcasts at Arvada.org. We'd love hearing feedback about what you enjoy and what you'd like to see done differently, episodes, ideas, and more. Now on to our news section, Arvada Winterfest is coming up here on Saturday, February 28th from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. in Old Town, Arvada. This is the Arvada Festival Commission's annual multicultural celebration featuring a whole bunch of different interactive performances from a variety of different cultures and traditions. To learn more and to see a schedule of events, visit ArvadaCo.gov slash Winterfest. As we mentioned in the last couple episodes, the best way to stay up to date on events like Winterfest and everything else going on around the city is through visitarvada.org. And there's a newsletter you can subscribe to. That's the Visitor Center's email list and website. And Gene Gordon from the Visitor Center does a great job of compiling all the great and fun, interesting stuff going on throughout the city.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it may not feel like spring is on its way, but the 2026 Resource Central programming is kicking off soon. And so that's a partnership the city holds for outdoor water saving programs for our Arvado water customers. And we're actually going to have someone from Resource Central on our next episode. So stay tuned for more information about everything they offer and how to participate. And then the Garden in the Box presale and lawn replacement applications do start up in March. So coming soon. Thank you again to our guest today, Allison Scheck. Be sure to listen to next Times episode. Like I mentioned, it'll be marketing director Rachel Stotz from Resource Central, all about their partnership with us. The podcast was recorded and edited by Arvada Media Services.

SPEAKER_01

And today's fun fact is that West 72nd Avenue serves more than 20,000 vehicles per day.

SPEAKER_00

Whoa.