Episode #36 - Pit2Pro X Out of System with Gage and Joe Worsley

This episode is chalk full of information and crazy stories. Expect to learn about the intense Worley household, how to cultivate grit and competitiveness, the problem with most team cultures in professional volleyball. How to find the play style that works best for you, what we can learn from Gage's horrible recruiting trip to Hawaii, and the many differences between the Canadian and American development systems.

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Transcript

0:00

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Pit to Pro Podcast. In today's episode, we're joined by Gage and Joe Worsley. The Worsley Brothers are both University of Hawaii alumni, professional players in Europe, and founders of the massively popular out of system volleyball brand. Expect to learn about the intense Worley household, how to cultivate grit and competitiveness, the problem with most team cultures in professional volleyball. How to find the play style that works best for you, where we can learn from gage's horrible recruiting trip to Hawaii, and the many differences between the Canadian and American development systems.

Mathias 0:30

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Jesse 0:35

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Mathias 0:43

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Jesse 0:48

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Mathias 0:54

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Jesse 1:12

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1:28

But now ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the Worley Brothers. Hello and welcome to the Pit the Pro podcast. Jesse, Matthias, and Aaron Elson. This podcast is meant to guide young athletes on their journey to high performance. Join us as we share our first hand experiences in an effort to help you reach your own valuable goals.

Mathias 1:50

All righty. Welcome back everyone to the Pit to Pro podcast. Today's episode number 36. We've got two very special guests with us today. We've got Joe and Gage Worsley from the OUTTA system crew. Welcome to the show, boys.

Gage 2:02

Thanks for having us on, man. Good. More stoked.

Jesse 2:06

Hell yeah. Well, first off, congrats both. You had monster seasons, uh, in Lundberg and Schal and I know you guys got big things ahead. I don't know if that's public news, but big things next year. So that's exciting. Thank you. Um, I wanna wrap or start this thing off by talking about your dad.'cause our dad coached us. I know that you, or gauge your, we talked about your dad coaching you guys, you guys were on the same team growing up. Um, so let's start there and then we can kind of talk about some major, uh, differences in the club system between Canada and the States, because I know there's lots, and I don't think a lot of our younger listeners know, uh, how different the, the volleyball environment is in the two countries. You want dad?

Joe 2:47

Absolutely. The, uh, I don't know if there's, uh, you have any specific question, but for us, we started playing when we were six or seven. Our dad didn't even get us into volleyball. Actually. We, uh, we had a close family friend in Rochester, New York that got us past bootlegger, so that's where we kind of got into volleyball. And then our dad,

Jesse 3:06

that's a sick last name. Bootlegger.

Gage 3:09

Yeah. I don't even know how they came up with that either though too. It was, uh, it was, uh, it was, yeah, maybe it had anything, something to do with bootlegging back in the day, but I didn't even know where the name Pace came from either. So maybe they just did like, like a random team generator thing, like, or something like that. That could have been the case. But yeah, it, it was, it was interesting for sure. I still to this day am puzzled.

Joe 3:30

Yeah, they're the clubs in, uh, New York, but we, uh, that's how we got into it. And since then, uh, I think from when our dad started coaching us from that young age, he was always definitely harder on us than any. Uh, no, he's hard on everybody, but I think always a little bit harder on us. Uh, and there's countless stories that I think a lot of people close to us have all heard about from walking home, from practices to, uh, oh, we throwing our silver medal in a river. One time we were like six, seven,

Gage 4:03

we, we lost our tournament. Luckily, we're very fortunate to be, my dad had expectations for us.

Joe 4:09

Yeah.

Gage 4:10

And luckily we were, for the most part, able to reach those expectations. But if something were to happen, he, I always see a, a learning lesson or a lesson to be taught and like, we'd be six or seven on the way home and he'd, he just, we lost. Not a word is said and stop the car, eh, find a pond. It's like, take that and throw it. And we threw it. I threw silver medal off in the, in the pond. Stop. We were like really young. And then even when I was like 13, I remember I lost a big, the, like a beach national championship. It made me go to the end of the pier and throw it off the pier there too. So, uh, it was, it was a trial by fire. I always like to say it with my dad. It was a, it is a very intense household to say the least. And I can guarantee you that my brother nor I, uh, have yet to experience, or I don't wanna say the word intimidated, but like if someone yells at us, teacher, coach, anything. It won't even faze me. It won't even faze him either. It's like talking, like yelling is like talking for us, so fine. So I'm like, you can literally say the worst. It's not even gonna face me. It's not gonna hit, hit home at all for me. Uh, so when, when coaches try and yell at me, obviously they, as they should, you know, I just never get yelled at. It's just like, oh, he is just talking to me. Okay. So like, that's fine. Um, so yeah, so my dad was always kinda, my dad's a very intense man, obviously he's, he's, he's had a lot of success. Coachings, obviously some of this stuff, like what we just, Hey, maybe he was a little controversial for some coaches to be teaching their young kids. Um, but like I said, he had expectations and he also put in the work too. So it was, um, yeah. So, and then we started, and then he started a club called Pacific Rim around 2001, 2000, I wanna say 13, 14 or something like that. We were like, we, we moved out to California.'cause we realized that we were, we. Getting pretty good. And at this time, New York, maybe at least where we were, wasn't the best pool in terms of talent. There was like one of the guys, Spencer, the Wiccans, he was, he went to Pepperdine and everything and he had a very successful career there. Um, but besides that it was, it was just us and we moved out here and eventually my dad started a job. I started the, the club and kind of turned it into a pretty successful club when we were back in the day there. Um, we met a lot of our lifetime friends through it and we also learned a lot of lessons. I wanna say that also, like, like now, now we, we run camps and clinics all day, all day long. And it's basically that was, we were kind of bred br like my dad had us out there, never forget this. We would, we, they used, there was a time when they had a beach club as well, actually a, a a, a pretty good beach club. And, and he would have us out there. We were like 14, 15 and we had to coach these 18-year-old girls. And like, they're like trying, like, I'm like, like my dad had his coaching young, like, and also like my entire high school experience was just, um, waking up at the crack of dawn at 4:00 AM every day or every weekend. Like I would have, like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't see my friends or anything like that, um, outside of school. So I'd wake up and every day be coaching and, and helping him or helping the facility. And obviously at, in the moment it sucks. Like that's like the last thing you want to be doing. But here I am, you know, like I can, like, we're running camps in clinics and we haven't eaten and like we haven't eaten, we, we haven't eaten a thing and we're giving like sweating to like four or 5:00 PM that's un phases us, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's something where it's like for us, like there's this stuff that just doesn't phase us and we're fortunate, um, that we were raised that way. When I tell people about how we were raised, they're like. A little like, whoa, like that's intense. But you know, we turned out pretty okay.

Jesse 7:56

Is that, uh, what's your dad's name?

Gage 7:58

Roger Wesley. The Roger. Roger.

Jesse 8:00

The Roger Wesley. So like, obviously the states take sports way more seriously from top to bottom than most countries, I would say as a whole. Is that the way your dad approached coaching and the way your dad approached you as youth? Is that kind of an American thing or is that just the Roger Worsley way of high performance?

Gage 8:24

Both. I mean, he's a unique individual if I were to, but there's,

Joe 8:28

there's definitely like a lot of intense coaches out there and programs has a unique way about it and. Demands certain things, but I think a big part, especially with our team too, is that he has kids on the team and so that allowed him to, or push even more, uh,'cause I see him coaching some like young girls things and he's not the same. No, he wasn't with us. Um, but it's definitely a US thing. Um, and that's why I think you see, like, especially in volleyball, Americans go overseas and the, like you said, like how, how much they care about sports and how much they invest. Time, energy, and money is just on a completely different level. And it's like Americans are always, uh, I think that's a big adjustment always that when guys go over to Europe in any sport and it's like, yeah, it's just not the same level of, um, buy-in and same level of investment in many different areas that you see in the United States.

Jesse 9:27

Hmm. So is, is youth volleyball really accessible, like across the whole country or is it kind of like you need to be in the right area, you need the money, you need the connections?

Joe 9:41

Uh, it's definitely, there's geographic locations that is definitely more hotspots. Uh, it's not just like across the US is huge as everybody knows, just like Canada is. And there's so many different areas where there's definitely big parts of the US where they don't have boys volleyball, but girls volleyball nowadays. But boys and girls volleyball are the fastest growing high school sports right now in the us. Um, every single year, just exponentially growing, more opportunities popping up at the collegiate level too. And so overall, um, you definitely see more and more popping up and more states adding it into, you know, their schools and everything. So it's becoming more and more accessible, but there's definitely certain areas that are more so.

Jesse 10:22

Hmm. Cool. And then, uh, I wanna talk about the trial process. So let's say you're U 14. In boys volley, let's stick to boys volleyball. Is there, are you guaranteed on any team? Like, can you pre-sign to a club team or do you have to do the trial process?

Gage 10:37

I mean, it, it also has to depend on like, uh, if you've been part of that club on a team for a while, you know, are you talking about like the average volleyball goer, not like the elite or anything? Yeah, I'm

Jesse 10:46

talking about like, Hey, my son's 14, he wants to try volleyball. Like, what's that like in the states?

Gage 10:51

Usually there's no cuts, but like Joe said, there's hot spots where they're like, I mean, they're like, after five teams, they're done, or after two or three teams, they're, they're

Joe 11:02

done. It depends on the clubs. Some clubs are a lot more cutthroat. It's like, no, it's like they only take the top kids. Um, yeah, there's some that are like, oh, we just try to have as many teams as possible. And then those clubs, it's easier to sign. But uh, there's stuff that. There's, there's rules, but every club's that you talk to is bending the rules. And most of the time there's a lot of club teams that have the teams already signed before the tryouts. Unofficially. Unofficially. But uh, and then you have some that are like just still trying to find guys after tryouts. And so it's really dependent. But, um, there's definitely, if you wanna play volleyball in most areas, there's definitely clubs for you, what, for whatever type of level by,'cause you have all different types of club too. You have, in California you have, oh, it's the two different, it was like, uh. The area league or something. Oh yeah. So

Gage 11:52

yeah, for example, obviously California one of those hotspots, you can just play locally or then you can like regionally and then, but also you can then play. Yeah, exactly. So like you're never traveling that far, but then you also have like the actual league itself, and that's when okay, you're encompassing the middle of California all the way to the top of California, and then so you're traveling a lot more and there's more teams to play. Um, rather than regionally it's usually discounted price. You're not playing as many teams, you're not traveling as far, and then, but if you wanna be on the travel, like travel, travel roster, more money, more teams, um, more travel.

Jesse 12:26

That's crazy. Do you know the, the average price of like one of those traveling teams?

Joe 12:32

Depends on the state. It really depends on the state you're in. Um, but you'll usually get clubs between, uh, like 20$804,000. The top, top clubs in like LA and stuff, they're almost$10,000 a year.

Gage 12:51

Whoa.

Joe 12:52

Yeah. And that doesn't cover any travel expenses. You gotta pay all the travel still and hotels and if you go to nationals on top of that, usually another thousand,$2,000 that you're paying food, hotel, travel and Yeah, it's, yeah. And for to travel for everything, parents are paying a lot of times per trip, probably two to$3,000 of between like hotels and foods and

Gage 13:20

crazy. And I can say like for us, we had guys like obviously LA Big Area at times has a lot more people with money as well, um, where we're from relatively pre pretty well off people. But like obviously there's, there's, there's people who are not that, not that, um, in that bracket there. So. I think my dad did a really good job of, for example, we had some guys like to pay off like in in Pack Rim, Pacific Rim, the da, the, the club my dad started, it's not an expensive club. Um, but to pay off, um, some stuff, they would be like the janitors and they would clean or they would coach more or they would find ways kind of avenues in order to fulfill that, that way, you know, doesn't have to pay anyone else. And that way, um, so my dad always hires like, uh, usually high school janitors. Now that could be good or bad. You can have the best of the best. You're looking at me right here. Um, or you know, obviously you have kids go in, there's like not, you're like, you know, wipe this ear, do this, and then my dad has to get on'em more. Um, but I was a janitor for four years straight at Pacific Ri. Uh, not to be sidetracked, but what we would do, it was always, um, right after school I would go straight to the facility.'cause we have a two court facility and I would just go. Clean all, all day long until kind of the night and then the night happens, homework, wake up, repeat. And that was our life. And then on the weekends we'd be coaching and, uh, clean the entire facility. My dad would have projects for us where you're talking about like, we never handled any of this equipment before, like drills and stuff. He like, fix that hole. Like, I've never held a drill in my life, but all right. And then he'd leave us and then he'd have me a joke.

Joe 15:06

Drills wasn't even the worst part. Yeah. It was the sawing and the ripping out the drywall replacing all the drywall.

Gage 15:13

Never my life if I ever done any of this. Like, so we also learned those things too. Side note there. But, um, now No, that's cool. I would never make anyone but his kids do this. Like obviously like the Jan, like the kids down there. They were, they were just, janitors would never be doing this. But yeah. Side note,

Mathias 15:28

I'm, I'm really curious because it seems like you guys learned a ton from your dad and maybe like a bit of an unorthodox way if you guys, if you guys had. Uh, kids today or soon, how would you take what you learned from him? Like would you implement a similar approach?

Gage 15:47

Yes and no. For me, I can say that work ethic wise in terms of being, I think you obviously respect people and you like working with people who have good work ethic and don't complain, or are just like, you know, this is what you need, let's make it happen. You know what I'm saying? Like that type of people. And I think me and Joe can be those type of people, not to say in certain situations we're like, uh, or whatever, you know? Um, yes, I like, I like how that was in, but I don't know if I throw my kid's medal out in a pond or that's, that's probably a little intense, maybe even for me. And I'm an intense guy at times. Um, but like I said, I don't regret it. Here I am. But yes, there are stuff that I would take for sure, uh, stuff maybe I would like dim down maybe a little bit Joe.

Joe 16:36

Yeah, I agree with that. Uh, I think it's a whole different world. I don't know, it's

Gage 16:41

my dad's so old

Joe 16:42

school that, you know, I, I do honestly believe, I think raising kids nowadays is so difficult in the current just climate with everything, um, in many different ways. I think coaching, I think raising kids is so difficult for many different reasons. Um, and so, I don't know, like the worst thing for me ever would be having just the most disrespectful and, yeah, misbehaved kid. I would hate, like, I'd be so embarrassed, uh, as a parent to be in that situation. And I know some kids require more discipline than others, and so it's tough to say what I would do because it's like, if you have a kid that needs more discipline, then how do you handle that in, in today's day and age? It's, it's difficult. It's really, really, that's why for me, like. When you're looking at coaching and managing, I, I don't know how much Canadians know about the whole like NIL situation right now and the collegiate volleyball scene, but it's, it's both good and bad in, in many different ways for the sport, and it's created this culture that's difficult to coach in, uh, and focused on just volleyball. And so I, I don't know, I think I look at both coaching and parenting in similar ways. I'm, it's really difficult right now to do both, so it's tough to see how I'd manage it.'cause it depend on also the personality of the kid. But I know for a fact, like, I would hate, like there's parents who maybe or have a certain feeling of like how our dad was, but at the end of the day, sometimes their kid's like the most misbehave kid of, of anybody in the group. Yeah. That's like, I would hate to have that, that would be the most embarrassing thing ever.

Gage 18:19

Yeah. For me, I would also, I mean, I mean don't, don't get me wrong, I'm also very competitive. I know my brother is too. I see us. As also fathers that would, obviously we, we know where the boundary lies, but like, you know what, let's go play a game of one-on-one in the basketball, you know, and toughen'em up through stuff like that. You know, like we plan to be active for a while too, so that's also where we're probably gonna, you know, you know, I think, I think like, like Joe said, I think young kids at times, they need, uh, the world at their fingertips. And especially, you know, we, we've were fortunate to see a lot of, uh, a lot of the, around the country, a lot of players and stuff. And 99% of the time they're great. But obviously there's some kids, you know, that are like, you know, like never in a million years would I even think to act that way or do that, you know? And I think that you just gotta be sometimes creative with that. And I think, uh, in a sports environment sometimes, you know, you gotta humble'em. And I think, uh, a game of one-on-one or a little short court game, we'll always go a long way. So I always gotta make sure we're in top physical condition to, to, uh, dominate our kids for as long as we can.

Mathias 19:20

Yeah. why did your dad make you throw your silver medal off the pier?'cause

Gage 19:25

because we'd won everything up to that. And that was not acceptable.

Mathias 19:31

Just the result. Just the result was not acceptable.

Gage 19:33

Result was not acceptable. I actually, here's the, here's the crazy thing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell full sight. You'll be, at first you'd be like, whoa. But then actually, it actually helped me out in the long run too. Like I said, with like the yelling, like, like the intensity of my dad, obviously that in itself was going to strengthen you, make you harder, thick skinned. But also, I remember when I was like six or seven, I knew, Hey, if we're not winning, if we're not like winning, like there, there's gonna be like, there, like no one's talking in the house for two, three days after that. Like, like the problem, the good thing about having a family about all this is, is that. You're like, you are all on the same page. You're all ride or die, and you're all very supportive. Like our parents remember, like every other weekend we drive down south seven, eight hours since we were like 10, 11 to get the best competition. So like, it was always coming from a place of caring and everything like that. It always came from, they always supported us and they always made sure we had what we needed to, to, to do that. Um, now obviously with that, there was a higher expectation because they were doing all this. They were like, obviously it costs a lot of money. It costs a lot of time, you know, they have jobs too. So when I was younger, I remember I was like, I knew like if we, if we're not winning this, like I'd be six and I would be like, I couldn't eat anything the entire day during club. If I ate anything, I'd throw it up immediately because I'd just be like, so like these local power league tournaments, we weren't local like from like the, like the, like I was describing the travel tournaments. I'm like. We better win this or else like, we're like, like, so I wouldn't be eating anything the entire day. I couldn't keep anything down. Occasionally, like a liquid, like water. I could keep down liquids, I could keep down, like maybe I have like a smoothie, but that's it the entire day. So I wouldn't eat anything and I'd be like nerves the entire time. And I remember growing up, even then I, I'd be like, I remember I had, this is so profound in my, and I had these like jelly belly, like energy beans. I tried to eat one time for a championship match. I couldn't, I couldn't put it down. I, I could have just shaking like since I was like seven or like, I knew. So, and I would describe, I remember when we go to nationals at a certain point we were naturally, we were pretty good. We had expectations too, where I remember, I remember it basically, it was like, I describe nationals for me as psychological torture.'cause it's four days straight. And I knew if you not winning on that fourth day, the whole season was a waste because that's what it led to. Right. And I'd just be like, in my room, just like, like for forever. Now fast forward now, like when you have. Ga one game a day of Hawaii or than pro, it was a lot easier to handle. Now it's not, now it's a lot, lot, uh, a lot easier to handle. And now in those like pressure situations, I able to think very clearly.'cause I was like, I've been in this pressure situation, somebody six years old and Paige Bootlegger had to be eaten in the regional championships. You know what I'm saying? So it was just one of those things where like I said, would I, I mean obviously I'd, I'd, I'd be hard on my kid about stuff. And for me it's more about

Joe 22:23

effort thing. The one thing is I will say, you, we, you don't, we won so much under that environment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I go to other coaches who are like, oh, a lot more talking about other stuff and I'm like, we lose way more under those types of coaches. I'll be honest, I've never lost as much as it has for coaches who are a lot more like, oh, you know, I understand the whole thing that we can't control the results and all that. We talk about this. It's like every coach I play for that's like that, we lose way more than I do with. Coaches who put a ton of like, work, you put pressure like this. We won so much at like, I think we won like 98, 90 9% of matches and we won like all the national championships. Yeah. Um, yeah. For a, a few different years. And it was like, so it's tough for me to be like, you know, I prefer, because I've had the other side of the opposite kind of tune is difficult for me to say. Like, yeah, I prefer that because when, when I play for a really tough coach, I always feel like I play my best. And, uh, the team always, you, you definitely bond as a team, but also it shows you who you can rely on in like difficult moments. And that is difficult if you don't go through that during the season. And there is a reality too, and I say this even now in my current, you only remember what happens in the last month of season. Like you can remember everything else. But at the end of the day in competitive athletics, it's like when it comes down to it. I dunno. This is, and this is more for, I, I feel like more of the culture in the US It's like you under, like the playoffs, how you finish the season is kind of what you judge a lot of your season on. And see a lot of athletes in the N-F-L-N-B-A talk about the same thing. It's like the end of the day, like if you're trying to win the championship, all you think about is like the playoffs and how we finish in the playoffs. Everything else is nice and you have this whole journey that gets you there, but it's uh, it's tough to get past how, how the season finishes And yeah,

Gage 24:22

for me, also, one thing I want to add also, like,'cause it wasn't just us going like through the intensity of Roger Awards, it was our whole team and we always were peaking at the right moment too. And I said, it's like the last month. And we always peaked it. Like, we're always like, like, okay, here and there, you're gonna lose matches. Okay, whatever. And obviously, you know, like you're gonna hear about it and everything. Um. But always, we were always the most prepared team and the always most ready team in nationals, which is why we were that successful and why there's so many guys. Our, our, our eighteens team in nationals, we had seven guys all American in college. That's cool. Four of those guys, first team at one point, and now six of those guys are pro. So it's like, it's, it's one of those things where it's intense, but it works. So here we are, you know? So it's, yeah.

Mathias 25:14

Did that wear any kids down on your team like that? Didn't,

Gage 25:18

yeah.'cause I

Mathias 25:19

think it's, it's really tough, but then that makes you tough and then you kind of rest the occasion later on. But I think for some kids it could just wear'em down. Go the opposite direction.

Joe 25:28

It was always the kids who weren't as bought in, right? Like the kid. But that's the thing is, by the end, our last, we won the last two years of our juniors, but those two teams, you had kids that were just so bought in by that.'cause we'd trained, we'd gone through five, six years together. It's like, by that point, it's like you've broken and it is, it maybe is kind of, I don't know, not a great thing to say, but it's like, yeah, you broke kind of all the people that till that point maybe weren't the right fit for like whatever that group and that coach, and I'm not saying this is the only way to be successful'cause a lot of people, you know, have other strategies of being successful. But for us and for our team, I, I know that it was the perfect, we needed that with our team and the personalities we had and all the stuff. It's like you needed, we needed that. And that's, I, I know I've always played well under coaches who you know, are. I guess my dad's really the, the one who'd done it the most. I, I'd never really played for anybody else. I guess Milan in certain ways can kind of kick. Yeah. At University of Hawaii was definitely somebody who high pressure situations and had high expectations for you. Um, and those, that was, that was like what at the end of the day makes you you better? What coaches? Yeah. Every other coach that I've had, you know, in some way. Like it allows a little bit too much you feel like at times and you never agree fully as a coach. Even my dad, I'm like, yeah, there's some stuff he's too hard on, I think. But for me, I almost prefer that just be hard on everything.'cause I know that at the end of the day it gets results. Yeah.

Jesse 27:03

I think it's so interesting'cause in, in Canada, like winning is the least important thing, at least for youth volleyball. Like it's all about. Like, uh, fair play and development and keeping kids in the sport as long as possible. Like not trying to break anyone trying to be inclusive, like, and then, which I think is great, but then you can tell like, we're not a championship level country. You know, like we have good university programs. Our national team is good at times, but we're not like winners, you know, we're not trained to win from a young age.

Joe 27:42

Yeah. I mean, you see so many documentaries on Netflix of the co all these, there's a reason these guys have these types of mentalities'cause they're trained by these coaches that are like, and have these parents that are so tough. I dunno if you've seen like the Serena Williams, uh, movie of how her father was and all these athletes that you see, uh, they have even like Steph Curry, like, and you listen to stories of his, his mom and stuff and they just really tough and they create these high pressure situations and. Stuff. And that's ultimately what leads you to be successful, I think in your career, in these moments. It's, it's tough when you're allowed to, I don't know, it's, it's, I don't know if this is the right thing to say, but it's like you're allowed to lose kind of, or you feel like you're allowed to lose. I feel like anytime I've been on a team where that's like accepted, you're just, you just know that things will not pan out when it comes, when you need it most. Um, and I always say that to be like, the weaknesses, the weaknesses that you always have within a group will always come out in the, in the moment you need it, like the most. And there's a, there's a famous quote that is along that lines, but I, I firmly believe that because I've just been on in so many groups where both sides that have happened. One, the thing that always kind of, the coaches let slip or, uh, you know, kind of that weakest link always, uh, fell through when we needed it the most. And then on the other side too, the thing that we pushed and we made a, uh. A point to make sure that we never let slip Like that always came through, almost like saved us. Um, and I can think, like, I can think back so many times in my career, both on both sides of that from when I was a young kid.

Mathias 29:24

That's so interesting. I think even like, uh, Jesse and I had very different experiences than, than you two growing up. We, I don't have, I don't think I've had a single coach like, like that similar to your dad. Oh, Jesse's gone.

Gage 29:39

Oh, he is out.

Mathias 29:40

Yeah. I don't think, I don't think we had, uh, any coaches like that. It was all like, kinda like Jesse was saying, like way more inclusive, ma way more about like, development. Um, and I think for myself personally, oh, power's out at Jesse's. Oh geez. We'll keep going. Yeah, that's tough. Um, for me personally, it took me a really, really long time to figure out how to be a winner. Um, I was always really good at getting better at volleyball and like the skills and executing in that stuff, but being a winner, like I didn't learn that until my last year at university. So it was like way, way later in my development. But also at the same time, I wasn't puking, uh, and anything, anything up that I tried to eat at Club Nationals, right? Like I had, I had a really like, enjoyable, um, club experience. Um, but we lost a lot. So, I don't know, uh, memory,

Gage 30:43

you know, like it's, it's also like, like I get it. I get what you're saying. I also say that I also wanna point out, I didn't mean to cut you off, sorry. But one thing is that there is, you need that, what you were describing, you still need that most players are, are gonna like, are just recreational players, like 90. 9% of players that play club volleyball, whether they're in Canada or in the States, they're just there to have fun, play volleyball, to have fun and like see how good they can get. And they need that. But if you're in that 1%, like you said, if you're in that 1% and you're trying to make it there and you're trying to be there, you need, uh, a foot on your chest kind of at all times. Yeah.

Mathias 31:21

That's why I like how, like you guys kinda described, there's two different levels of club volleyball. There's like the, the local one and the travel one. It seems like the travel one's like a lot more intense, right? Those are for the kids that want to be great one day. Um, I think that's important. Like you're saying, some people would get weeded out early in the process, which I think is probably good for everyone.'cause those that are committed get to do their thing and, and go after. And then the ones that are just there for, for fun and to pass the time can do that in like a safer environment. Um, but I think that happens in Canada, but it happens really late. Like guys will be. Halfway through their university career and then they make like a, a U 21 team or a B team and then they get like ripped on for the first time and that's when they get weeded out. Um, just like emotionally, psychologically, competitively. And it's just, it's unfortunate'cause we lose a lot of players. Um, that could have been awesome. We lose them late because we didn't pressure them, let's say early enough in the process, if that makes sense.

Gage 32:26

Mm-hmm. You wanna say, I wanna say also I think also what also Europe does a good job of this now that I'm actually you over here in see it, I think I heard we're in Japan, they said this too, is that when being a junior or youth coach there is like, they send a lot of their best coaches there, like to those levels and like sometimes they're most hardest coaches and the most successful teams in the country. Right. From what I've heard, I. Those coaches, those, those like U 17 coaches UI guess, I think U 15, I think. I don't know if that means me, it's too young for them to have a national team for, but those are like, like very respected jobs and jobs that like people go, like people go after and then the countries that don't respect that usually don't pan out that well. Um, and that's just kind of what I've noticed too, uh, for me at least.

Mathias 33:16

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Our, yeah, our, our club system is just a lot of volunteer work. A lot of, like, a lot of parents at the beginning, like that played in high school or something like that. Um, yeah, it's not something that you could do, um, as a career, that's for sure.

Gage 33:35

We get that. I mean, that's also, I mean, in the States there's so much, so many teams, like, so many teams where it's like, if you're like to do a, like a. Percentage of how many good coaches there are. It'd be very, very low. Like in terms of like what? Like Well in terms of trying to, to be at the next level or trying to like do this, obviously like I said, most people are there to have fun, so it serves a great purpose. Yeah. There's also not a lot of crazy great coaches that understand and that's understandable too'cause you said it's volunteer jobs, something like a full-time gig. Yeah. So that makes sense.

Mathias 34:08

Yeah. Alright, let's move into, uh, university. How did, uh, the recruiting process start for you guys and what was that like, Joey?

Joe 34:19

Yeah, I mean in, in the US you had all the college coaches come into all the different main tournaments throughout the US so the qualifiers for the national championships they'll be at and they'll start, start identifying. There's always a period it change. I don't even know what it is right now, but it changes all the time and it's different. They have rules of when they can contact you, when you can go on a visit to the campus because. You hit a certain age, they can fly you. They pay for a full trip for you to come for 48 hours, fly a parent out, and they take you on this whole recruiting trip. So you're, you were allowed up to five. All the rules have been shifting constantly. I, to be honest, I don't even know what the current rules are on that. Sure.

Gage 34:59

Mm-hmm.

Joe 34:59

I was there, you had five visits you could take pretty much official visits they call it. And so I only took four, um, to four different schools. And you go and you visit and you get a,

Mathias 35:11

so you could take five to the same school or five different, you only allowed five in total.

Joe 35:16

Yeah.

Mathias 35:18

Interesting.

Joe 35:19

Yeah. Five official visits

Mathias 35:20

gotcha,

Joe 35:20

But, um, I, it might be different now. I heard it might be different now, so they, it might be unlimited, who knows. But, uh, generally, uh, for the boys, they take a lot of visits. The girls commit super early, so they get girls that commit when they're like freshman. So they're only taking one visit by the time they come.'cause they're, they're visiting the school. They're going to basically, that's why they don't even. Yeah, sometimes they don't even, but, uh, yeah, so we, I took four visits and that's kind of where they talk to you. They pitch you, they give you a scholarship offer.'cause you're only allowed four and a half scholarships in maximum for the entire team in the ncaa the governing body for the main, the main university, uh, collegiate league. And, um, and so you, it's very rare somebody gets like a full ride, a full scholarship. Usually it's split up, it's like 25 here or 50 here, you know, split up between eight or nine guys typically depending on the school. And uh, and then from there, after they call, then you have like a, a window that you gotta commit by and then there's like a signing day. And um, for me it was, yeah, I mean there's only really one school that wanted me as a setter. Everybody else wanted me to come play La Baro, even though I played setter my whole life. But just'cause my natural height, uh, they wanted me to come play the barrel and I. I hate ero, to be honest. Like I don't really enjoy it. The only time I played ERO is with the youth national team, like U 20 U nineteens. And, uh, yeah, it is fun. It it, it's good to play on the team, but for me, I've set my whole life I wanted to be a setter, so, uh, Hawaii was really the only chance that I had to go do that, and that's kind of where, why I ended up there

Gage 37:03

for, oh, sorry. Did you have any questions or you want me to talk about mine?

Mathias 37:07

I'm just amazed that nobody wanted either except for them. That's crazy.

Gage 37:12

And he was, it sounded like, oh, he was a late bloomer. He was clearly,

Mathias 37:16

yeah.

Gage 37:16

Upset at the class, especially

Mathias 37:17

Hawaii. Because Hawaii's a was an awesome program at the time, right?

Joe 37:22

No,

Mathias 37:23

no.

Joe 37:24

I went, there was, they had a good season. My, the year before I got there, they made NCAA tournament, but it wasn't like a program where like every kid in the country was like, now everybody wants to go. Okay,

Mathias 37:36

so you guys built that. Yeah,

Joe 37:38

in a, in a way it was part of it for sure. There's a lot of guys that were a part of it, but definitely a part of that, you know, those early years of where Hawaii's at now. Definitely.

Mathias 37:47

Right. Okay. Super cool. Yeah. Gage, what was it like for you? For

Gage 37:52

me, it was interesting because I had always had it in with my brother in terms of Hawaii and everything, and me and my brother always played, so I always played like two years up for, for club and that way me and my brother were always playing together, except for the last two years of club. But even like my junior and senior year, I would always go out to Hawaii. I always go out to Hawaii, go visit him. I had a moped over there too, so I was lit. Um, big priorities, but I but it, but I also said, and everyone just thought I was gonna go to Hawaii, but in my mind I said, Hey, I want to save my, keep my options open. Obviously the main driving force of gonna Hawaii would be playing my brother again. So I go and I was, luckily, I. Uh, lucky enough to be recruited by, well, luckily I was always on, we were on a really good team, like when, and so like college coaches were always swarming our court. Um, when I was with, on his teams and or so they were, they already knew of me before I came of age. So then I went and, uh, yeah, I, it was, I think it was U-C-L-A-B-Y-U Hawaii with a three i I narrowed down. I remember USC wanted me, but I said, it's just not my vibe. That's just really not my vibe. Um, not that against'em. Just not, not not where I wanted to go. BYU, they took me there and it was probably my best visit and I loved it so much, but deep my heart, I knew I wasn't gonna go there. My family's a Utah family also. BYU is also a highly religious school, and you could go there. There's plenty of guys that are not religious can go there and it's fine. But that's just also not really my vibe too. Nothing against it. It's not for me. Then I go, next school, I go to UCLA and that was, that was the one where I was like, okay, I really like it here. And like, it was good and everything and it's UCLA. There's, you know, I feel the world's at your fingertips at time. And it was cool and it was really awesome. So I kept that in time, but, and I, and I remember they, they, maybe I was with Mike, I remember. Um, and that was my second best visit. And then I went to Hawaii and that was my worst visit by far. I remember I don't party at all and they took me to a party and I was sweating there and I was awkward, like 18-year-old. And I was like, this is just not like, I was like, this is terrible. I remember also I came in there'cause I, like I said, I had Joe as an inn and so I knew the coaches really, really well all the time. And I was also entitled in this, this is really stupid by me. I remember I came in there and I dunno why. I just didn't think anything of it. Like I remember I wrote a list, I was like, okay, some things that I'm, I want like, you know, you pros and cons list. And so I'm like okay. And then I talked to like ex alumni.'cause obviously you don't want to hear from everything for your brother. You want to keep everything in mind. And I made a list of questions for the coaches. I had like four questions, but the questions were not good. It was in the terms of, I don't remember exactly, it was in the terms of, hey, like I remember I talked to one of the players or ex-players and he said, Hey, not a lot of, sometimes server receive is not worked on. So I asked specifically about that. I would be like, so it was like, so you're questioning this coach's integrity, basically what, what I realized, what I realized now I'm much more mature, which is not how you want to go in that meeting. Here I am at my questions. All three coaches in my family, Hey, I hear, I wanna talk about how much you guys work on serve, receive X, Y, Z. Oh my God, that it, it, it turned just a giant fight and screaming match, um, on my college visit. So already the precedent was just like it was already. Get outta there. And I remember, and then it, we, there was right into a practice match'cause it was preseason when I visited and I was just watching from the sideline and I was like, I just, how am I gonna go here after that? Like, I don't, like, I don't like that was not great. Now, at the time I should have known that I was being disrespectful too. Like that was on me. But Josh also, Josh Walker, the coach also in the car, when he drove me in the hotel, I was like, yeah, we don't, we're not looking at anyone else. You're the only person in this recruiting class. So obviously, you know, you get a little frightened because I was like PTSD or whatever, from back of, same thing happening. My brother comes in the next morning, we have a one-on-one about everything. He's like, dude, alright. And I wanna say this, I loved my coach in Hawaii. It was just, like I said, I was in, I was in the wrong there pretty much. But Joe just had a one-on-one and he just talked about like, Hey, like this is the right place for you. Thought about it. Two or three days later, four days later, I kind of think about it more call. I end up calling other schools saying Thank you very much, I'm not gonna go here. And then I end up calling Hawaii. I remember I called Charlie, I was like, coach, hey, this is Gage. And he is like, and he was like walking, I could tell. And he is like, Hey, this is Gage. Like, Hey, hey, how we doing? And I just went. I said, Hey, I want to commit to Hawaii. And he's just like shocked. He's like, oh, uh, okay. And then I just hear his page like picking up and then he like walking. He is like, yeah, how Sunday day work right now. But he was shocked that I actually committed there. And he's, he thought for sure I was gonna CLA. Um, but Milan Kovich, who's an unbelievable coach, reminded me of that, of those questions of that day, every single day. Like he would, oh yeah, run, making me run with balls. And then he'd be just telling me like, oh, the receiver, uh, the question, you know, like, he'd be constantly as you should. I deserved that. I deserved that. And so that was, uh, something that happened and I committed there. I was also different from Joe. I was, I was, uh, a pretty like people, like I said, people knew who I was, so there was no, like, I had to change positions. So anything like that. Um. Different. You know, it was just different journey for me, I guess. And I ended up in Hawaii because Joe, if it wasn't for Joe, I would not be there.

Mathias 43:24

Yeah. That's, that's hilarious. Sounds like a terrible recruiting experience.

Gage 43:28

Yeah. And, and most of that's on me, so like Right,

Mathias 43:32

right. What, uh, what would you guys say to kids that are trying to get recruited or, uh, yeah, any advice that they have a smooth experience. Ask better questions, maybe?

Gage 43:45

Uh, yeah, don't be an idiot. Don't be an asshole. Yeah. You're number one. Maybe I

Joe 43:48

would say number one, go somewhere where they like, want, are invested in you and like you're gonna play, like, know for sure that they're gonna give you a shot to play. I think so many guys come in, it's like, yeah, we're gonna make, bring you in as like our fifth or sixth guy in this position. It's like, okay, those are the guys you see transfer all the time. Uh, and it, it's, it, it's hard to say. I mean. I could tell most guys, like there's certain guys that can go and prove it and work and get there. But if you're not willing to go and do that and you want, then go to a place that fits you as a person more. So it's like if some, if you gotta know if a coach has really bought into you or not.'cause there's some guys go places and it's like, yeah, the coaches just never that super fired up about you and you just didn't really work ever. So you gotta find a place that fits you the best.

Gage 44:37

And Joe, Joe says all the time though, um, one, you gotta also know the culture of where you're going. Like know your priorities and culture. If, if you just want to go rage and play some volley, win a few games and be here and there. Okay? That's your priorities. Go make sure you understand that. But if you're trying to win, make sure, I think Joe asked that. He's like, make sure on the recruiting trip you talk to the top guy and the bottom guy and maybe in between as well too. And that way you kinda understand how everyone's treated. How the, how the, um. Community, what not The community culture, culture is around the team. So culture, you can't, if you have a good culture, you can kind of keep things rolling. But if you don't have a good culture, maybe get like one like a year and that's the year you're, you're getting recruited and you're like, and you can get, all of a sudden you're in a, I'm, I don't wanna swear here, but you're kind in a, you're at like, you're pretty much in a situation where you're kind of effed for the rest of the four years you're there.

Mathias 45:28

Right. And what was, what was the Hawaii culture like when you guys were there?

Joe 45:35

It, it, it definitely changed throughout my four years there. I mean a little bit, but a by the end it's like very bought into his performance on the court and making sure, like we had a really tight team, do a lot of stuff together. Um, but I would say that. They brought in the right personalities to kind of make that shift change. So you just had so many guys that were really hungry and wanted to be successful and um, created that almost like dog mentality. It's kinda like cliche, but it is true. Like you brought in a bunch of guys that were just really willing to do whatever it takes just in the gym nonstop. Um, and so that's kind of the personality, uh, that was built there over my four years and it's, uh, that's the right mentality to have for sure.

Gage 46:24

Yeah,

Joe 46:24

I think, I think that encompasses it perfectly

Mathias 46:27

well. And you guys won in which year?

Joe 46:31

21. He won. I, we lost the national championship my last year.

Mathias 46:35

Worst loss of my

Gage 46:35

life Still to this day.

Mathias 46:37

What, what happened there?

Gage 46:40

Uh, well basically what happened, I think, so we were facing tj, Josh, and Kyle among, and I can keep going. Like their whole team was very, very good together. Yeah. Obviously. They were good. We faced each other, I think a week before in the Big West finals, and we won at home and then we planned to play in their place again, and they just made adjustments and we didn't make adjustments and they just clearly kind of made adjustments beforehand and we were just not there. So, yeah. And then they, we lost them four, but they were just the better team that for, for, they was just the better team that in, in, in the finals. And they just, they made adjustments that we weren't there. And then, and then, yeah, and then unfortunately it was our last match together in Hawaii and it was very, very hard one.

Mathias 47:21

Is that what makes that a tough loss?

Gage 47:23

Yeah, that was the biggest thing. I remember just crying. I was in his arms just saying, I, sorry, I'm sorry or whatever. And my whole family was there. And also his entire senior class was also super, we were all very, very close with, from, from seniors down to freshmen.

Mathias 47:38

What's, what's the biggest, uh, failure you guys have had in your careers?

Gage 47:43

Personal, right,

Mathias 47:44

sorry.

Gage 47:45

Personal right. Oh, that's a good one, man. Mm Oh, not a play. It can be anything.

Mathias 47:57

Yeah. Whatever you want. Hopefully something you learned from, not just a downer.

Gage 48:03

I can talk about a series of things that kept happening.

Mathias 48:06

Mm.

Gage 48:07

My first year in Luna Bo, like I've had some, like stuff that I've had to learn quick. Like in my first year in Bulgar, I could talk about that. But my first year in SS Fal gay, um, Lunberg, it was something where I remember like Joe had been playing pro for four years. I had been playing for two years and along with other guys on that team that I was really, really close with, but I just wasn't there. Like what they, where they were. I just was not there and I kept messing up stuff. When we played these big games and guy by the name of Ruben Shot would always ace me to my right, always acce me to my right. I'd be in 60, boom. He'd hit my seam and I was just really not good at my right. In crucial moments too. When the first time I really played Berlin, um, he was the outside head on Berlin. He would, he hit it boom. Like in crucial times. Always, always, always, always. And he would always get the best of me. Actually, this year I was like, I could not like, and then it didn't happen as much last year, but it still happened. And then this past year I said in my head I was like, I need to make sure this doesn't happen again. And I mean, he still won and he still a great career, but I didn't AC me this year, not one time. And I was super stoked about that. I was like, let's go now. They still cream us in the finals, don't get me wrong. And he has a last laugh. But you know, it was a personal when I'm just put it like that and that's something that kinda always stick with me. Mm.

Mathias 49:24

What was like, if someone has a skill like that or a part of their game that's consistently letting them down, how would you encourage them to think about that and make a change?

Gage 49:35

I can talk about personal experience. If something's consistently letting it down, you're. Not working on it. Now. People are naturally gonna be better at some stuff than others, but to be letting you down consistently would mean like, you're clearly not working on it. Well, that was very harsh. You're like, work on it more. I think, I think it's also, it's easy to, when you're not good at something, kind of hide it, you know, and just not try and think about it, you know? But like Joe said, in the, in the most crucial moments, it's gonna come up again. Like, it just, it just always does. Yeah. Very rare, more times than not. And so you gotta kind of go through the frustrations and the embarrassment of just working on something that you're not very, very good at.

Mathias 50:11

Yeah, that's a good point. You probably can, you could probably, um, explain how you're gonna lose before the game even happens. If it's gonna happen

Gage 50:20

crazy. It's, uh, it's something that, uh, you can prepare as much as you want, but if you're just not there, you're just not there. Right. You know? And every team has a weakness. So like every team has is, is on quote unquote beatable. It's just about a level. Um. But you wanna make it, like I said, where it's, they can do a lot of things that beat you rather than they have to do this one specific thing or these few things.

Mathias 50:45

Right.

Gage 50:45

Shot.

Mathias 50:46

What about you, Joe? Any, any failures?

Joe 50:50

Uh, there's a lot of team ones that I can always look back on that I feel like you just was Yeah. There's like numerous reasons for it. Um, it's

Gage 51:03

about to start

Joe 51:04

sounding off

Gage 51:04

here.

Joe 51:06

Yeah. I, it is just like so many times it's like, okay, you just don't, I hate the word potential. It's just thrown around so much. And I, I, I say it too, but especially with about a team. Always potential. Potential, like. It drives me nuts listening to coaches just talk about that and how much potential this team has, and especially places where it's like, no, the culture here is to win. There's no talk about potential at this point. It's like, are we doing it or are we not doing it? There's no kind of gray area in competitive athletics. It's like,

Gage 51:37

right.

Joe 51:38

It's tough. And so that's, for me, I just count. I don't know if there's one singular time. There's definitely certain ones that hurt, you know, more than others, but it's just more frustration when, especially I think in pro volleyball where you change teams constantly and you don't have the same type of, uh, connection and memories as like the other guy. Like, that's one thing about college athletics is you, you're with that same group for four straight years and you can build that relationship and like you lose your, you know, your second year you all come back and you know what that felt like in pro. You lose one year and you lose like a brutal, you know, end of the year. The next year you're with a whole new team. A lot of time. It's like, okay, you all have experiences. That's where you, you don't have that same type of bond. And uh, but at the same time, it hurts just as much when you like, and yeah, it kills me when I hear so much talk about potential and this and that, it's potentials all bs. It's like what actually happened on the court?

Gage 52:36

Right?

Joe 52:38

That's all that matters at the end of the day. So Yeah, I, there's not one thing that really stands out to me specifically.

Mathias 52:45

That's a good point though, with like the battle scars that you get with a, with a group. Um, I think like those failures, maybe it's losing, maybe it's whatever, not reaching your potential. Then, uh, if you come back with the same group, yeah. You can do something about it. But those, uh, those lessons just get lost. If you don't,

Joe 53:04

it's a lot easier to connect with them. It's like the same crap last year and you know what happened last year.

Mathias 53:11

Right.

Joe 53:11

Other guys like, yeah. When, when you don't have that same mod, it's tough to connect and relate to each other.

Mathias 53:18

Right. I have a feeling that you guys are like masterful at being present and competitive and focused and all that in game, and I think in, especially in pro volleyball, oftentimes you have a lot of players that aren't like that. What have you guys learned about influencing those players and trying to get everyone on the same page?

Joe 53:45

Really tough at that level. For me, it was so much easier, uh, in the junior levels, even in college, to have more of like that impact At this level. It's, it's tough'cause especially with just some of the, I dunno, you're talking to like a 30-year-old person who's like married and stuff. Yeah, yeah,

Mathias 54:03

right.

Joe 54:04

That point you're not changing their mindset at all.

Mathias 54:06

Yeah. And they probably don't care. Probably don't want to change anyways. What about, what would you do in college if you're giving advice to a college kid?

Joe 54:14

Oh, college is a lot, like I said, a lot easier because. It's so competitive there and guys are competing for, you know, starting, starting jobs and, um, and everyone there is just so hungry. And if you're not, you get weeded out so fast. Guys we're like, come into the Hawaii gym, we're out in like a week or two sometimes it's like, get weed out really quick. It's just such a competitive atmosphere. Um, and you create that, like that's something you create over years and you bring in the right guys and the right personalities. And so that's why for me, I don't understand at the pro level how many coaches do not look at the personalities that people they're bringing in. Um, and the ones who do actually look at that, you see like they get a lot better consistent performances out of it. And there's, there's teams that don't invest into that or they don't even like discuss the personalities they're bringing into the gym. Or understand why that's important. Which is a crazy thing to me. I'm like, I just play on so many teams that you realize certain teams why they win and certain teams why they lose. Like, it's very obvious to you when you played for a long period of time. You play on so many teams with so many different guys and personalities. And so it's crazy to me that these, some of these clubs overseas don't understand that and don't, and at the university level, it's the same thing. Like if you don't have the right personalities, you know, in, in the program, it's tough to be successful like sustainably.

Mathias 55:43

Yeah. Probably more important than the skill, I would argue, or at least win the skill. Everyone's skill is relatively similar at that level. Yeah, exactly. That's not the difference maker.

Joe 55:53

Not at all.

Mathias 55:56

What about you, gage,

Gage 55:58

in terms of repeat the initial question. Sorry, I was listening so much.

Mathias 56:02

Yeah. I'm just curious about, uh, influencing your teammates. Um,

Gage 56:08

yeah.

Mathias 56:09

For me to be, to be aligned with the goal if they're not,

Gage 56:14

yeah, for me it's ero obviously. I think setter's usually the head captain, but ERO usually like the peppy guy, you know what I'm saying? Now, they like this year, this year especially, and I can be an asshole. Like that's not like if needed be, you know what I'm saying? I have that in me. Um, but a lot of times I just realized that like, what do these guys need a lot of the time? And then just kind of just, I, I like, I had to approach so many different guys, so many different ways, but luckily Lunenberg, a lot of these guys I've been playing with for a while, and obviously there are a bit, I've, I've made mistakes this past season about how I should handle other guys too, because I've only been playing with'em for a year now. That's not an excuse, you know, but I learned from that and I made sure the following game or whatever needed, I'd made sure, okay, like some guy needs some love, some guy needs some more tough love. And I think realizing that, um. Is how you gonna make your team successful, but also as long as you have, because you gotta also know in mind, well, and I was fortunate, this is not always the case, especially in pro, that everyone has the same goal in mind and we, we did. And so that makes things a lot easier to swallow because it's never a question of like, do you want it enough? And just like, you lose respect for that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I never had that, so it's easier for me to be like, okay, this guy needs, what does he need? What does he need? You know? Um, and stay motivated, uh, to keep learning and doing that.

Mathias 57:34

Right. How was it playing with Jess Gage Because you guys I think, are very different.

Gage 57:40

Yeah. Like, I, I actually clearly remember this. I remember, I remember it was, uh, yourself from Berlin. I remember when he, for some reason he got taken out. I remember, I remember you were at the game and I remember I was lighting up him up and right in front of you too. And that was like one of the rare times I ever yelled at Jesse because he was our captain and he was honestly such a good guy. Jesse was a great guy to play with. Um, I never, I've never met a Canadian that I don't like, that I don't enjoy playing with. So that's also the key too. But Jesse is a, is a great team guy. I think our team last year also was super cliquey off the court, which made it sometimes, which fell through, which is why we kind of fell through at times and that's normal for overseas. But Jesse always did a good job of bringing us all together on the floor. I think that was super good. He did a really good job of that where I would say, where I would get on him about a lot of the time. Is to be an asshole to the ref a lot of the time.'cause I would be yelling at the ref and then they'd be like, captain, captain, captain. I'd be like, Jesse go get this asshole. Go yell at him. And he'd be like, no, no, it's okay. You know what I'm saying? And then that's where sometimes I was right, sometimes I was wrong, you know? Um, but Jesse was such a good, just a, just a, I mean, I don't think you could actually ask a teammate and be like, oh no, Jesse was a bad teammate. I don't think you'd find one, honestly. Um, yeah, same by you. But I've only played with Jesse, but Jesse was a great guy and also an all around guy. You know, you could, you could count on him in a lot of different, um, a lot of different scenarios. And also if you like the guy you're playing next to, you wanna fight for him harder. And Jesse's always that type of guy that you wanna play harder for.

Mathias 59:18

Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I was just curious'cause you, you guys are. I feel like so different in, uh, fire,

Gage 59:25

fire, fire and Ice man, I would say. Yeah.

Mathias 59:27

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Gage 59:27

Yeah. I get it. I get it. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. That's why. But also, like I said, if I was being an asshole, he'd be like, dude, you need to like stop being an asshole. Right. There were too many there, there were too many times, just not the past season four with him where I crossed a line too much or I'd let my temper flare and he would've to be like, yo, you need to like chill out, man. And he was right. And I was like, what am I doing? He made me look in the mirror and be like, what am I doing? Right?

Mathias 59:50

Yeah. I think as long as there's a level of like, trust there Yeah. Then you can just be so, uh, like honest with your communication that makes things so much easier. And I respectively have to beat around the bush. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure. What about, uh, what's the most amount of pressure you guys have felt in your career besides from your dad?

Gage 1:00:11

I was gonna say, yeah. Yeah.

Mathias 1:00:13

Or, or maybe that's not even a thing for you guys anymore because of that upbringing.

Gage 1:00:18

No. Yeah, I mean, for me, I could say that the URS and Second Ash championship in Hawaii, I mean, I would say there are a bunch of pro games, but like for me, it's like a, it is like this is your last shot. This is like a legacy thing. And I cared, like I've been here four years. My first one I said I wanted to win it for the, my brother seniors, everyone's here. Didn't happen. Second one, I could say, I remember I was pacing for like three hours straight before the game. I was just sitting in the, just pacing in the bathroom, trying to like calm myself down.'cause I was like, if I lose two, I'm a failure. Like, there's, there's no getting around the fact that I have failed and I'm a failure. Um, losing two, like, you can lose one. Okay. That happens. Like, go either way you go and you lose two and two plus, you're like, yeah, I'm a failure. Like, and, and the thing is, there's no going back and trying to get it, you know? Mm-hmm. There's no be signing, there's no coming back to the league. You know, it's done. You're, you're done. And it's either, am I gonna be a winner or am I gonna be a failure? There's no in between. And you can paint it however you want. Paint it. You know, I always say, like I said, if you lose one, okay, that's fine. This is how it is. But if you lose two, I'm like, I could not hurt myself.

Mathias 1:01:21

Do you have any, uh, tips or any ways that have helped you when there's pressure on or you just take it?

Gage 1:01:31

Dude, I'm a, I, when it comes to pressure and like messing up, I'm a guy that I'm like, I can be very chill about. Like, I'm like, Hey, just let it go. I've gotten better at like a pro and it doesn't like, but also I'm like, sometimes I need to go to a dark place, you know what I'm saying? To get fired up, to get Mo to be like, yo, like you need to get to that dark place. Like you need to be like, yo, like you're not cutting it and if you do this, you're a failure and if you do this, you're not gonna be there. I would not recommend that to youth athletes. That's not something I'm recommending to, to people because I know that I can pull myself out of that. I know that like if I shank it, I'm not gonna be like going down a, um. Like, you know what I'm saying? So, mm-hmm. I would say, I don't know, I, maybe I'm not the best person to ask that que or not the best person, but, uh, a normal person would not react that way. But that's kind of how I do it.

Mathias 1:02:19

Hmm, I see.

Gage 1:02:20

Yeah. Um, it's different. It's very different.

Mathias 1:02:23

Yeah. Yeah. Could be useful for, for someone out there listening that's, that's similar to you, but most people don't do that. Don't do that. Yeah. Yeah. Right. What about you, Joe? Most pressure you felt

Joe 1:02:33

most pressure for? For me it might've been almost like some of the junior to, uh, national championships going into that.'cause we were like, wanna win those so bad? Um,

Gage 1:02:45

yeah.

Joe 1:02:46

Well, yeah. And you know, going home if you lose and we had to go home, it was terrible.

Gage 1:02:49

No talking for a week. Yeah.

Joe 1:02:52

So I would say those for

Gage 1:02:52

sure. Nobody in the house talked for a week. It was just bad. You just feel the bad energy man. It was just bad.

Mathias 1:03:00

Did, how does that impact you now when you're playing?

Joe 1:03:05

Uh, I wish we had that much pressure. To be honest, But it's more of a thing that is like all season long. It's that like discipline and like how much you've worked.

Mathias 1:03:14

Mm-hmm. And

Joe 1:03:14

honest overseas, like there hasn't been a ton of where it's like, oh my gosh.

Gage 1:03:19

I would say we only feel that pressure really when we're playing with each other. It could be like simple as short court. And we're also so together we're like. Like we, we can't lose this. You know what I saying? More a

Joe 1:03:28

pride thing.

Mathias 1:03:29

Yeah, yeah. Right, right. I remember seeing, uh, when you guys were playing together at Lindbergh, it was like, didn't you challenge, uh, like Jordan Schnitzer and Xander Oh yeah, baby.

Gage 1:03:39

Oh yeah.

Mathias 1:03:40

Can you tell that story?

Gage 1:03:42

Oh yeah, we did. So, so, so, alright. First of all, people play standing short court and I wanna shout out for someone specific who's the biggest a-hole about it on my team. Blake Leason, if you're listening to this, I'm just pointing you out. You only

Joe 1:03:55

play standing. He

Gage 1:03:55

only, they only, and I, and I challenge him on one-on-one jumping and I'd beat him like 11 three. But he's standing and he has a good grip. He's tall, he's got a good deep dish. So that, and he is got good ball control so that you're like, you're, he's great. Like great standing short court. I am a good standing short court is I just have no offense, as much offense. Um, so jumping short court, Senator Milan's archivist jumping sho. Court shows so much in the game. Obviously he's higher risk of for injury, but whatever, but. It, it changes. Like it can change, it can help you win an entire, like in, in certain points, ball control the net. I'm a still help me, but, so we were playing Xander and Schnitzer and like, I remember they were run, like all of a sudden we play em, we always beat'em. And then we were like running our, they were running their mouths and we were running our mouths with them. And then Jordan Ewert was like, there's no way you'll ever beat them. And Jordan Schnitzer was like, they're, he's like, we're gonna beat'em. At least like once or twice. Like we play every day, we're gonna beat'em. And then Jordan and Jordan made a bet. What was a bet? It was a like a, it was

Joe 1:04:55

like one month salary I think.

Gage 1:04:56

Yeah. Yeah. Something crazy. Like it was something at least a couple hundred dollars now. I think they were making more than a couple hundred dollars month than the salary, but still. So, um, but it was something crazy where, sorry, Joe has back problems here. Is it okay if he goes and stretches really quick? I follow.

Mathias 1:05:12

Yeah, no problem whatsoever. It's okay.

Gage 1:05:13

Sorry. He's got like, he's like, he's, he, he's bad on through the injuries. He's year Super. Super. So, so what happened was, um. Yeah, Jordan and Jordan, they go and they start, they bet each other. And what happened was every day we would play jumping short court every day, Xander and Schnitzer, Xander Schnitzer. And we wouldn't play to a point it would be till Stefan says, okay, whistle in, bring it in. Which is at a certain time. Yeah. So we was a good time. And there'd be times where they were up seven, eight points with like three minutes to go but we'd always find a way back and we always beat'em. Now we stopped playing at the halfway mark because everyone, because it was like we were drenching in sweat and the game, we released four of the games on YouTube. I think it was labeled Short Court Challenge. And you can still find it, like you can still find it there. I mean, you can just see like Joe and I's determination and, and Schnitzer and Xander were good, but obviously that brotherly connection. Mixed with just like, just pure, just determination and just like, just like refusal to give up. For that half a year. We never lost. They came close. They came really close and like we, we would win. And then they'd be so mad. Not Xander as much, but Schnitzer would be like so mad. he had way more on the line. But actually, you know what, I'd say we both had equal on the line because our, I would, I would like, I'll, I'll, there's stuff that happens like small games that I think about before I go to bed every night. Not every night, but like consistently, like I'll just think about'em and just like any stuff that didn't go our way. And I'll just like, like people and these, the people that I play, they'll, they'll never bat an eye or whatever. Whether it's a grass game, whether it's a, you know, a, a, a volleyball, tennis game, a volley game, I'll, I'll, like, I'll stay up at night just thinking about that and just bothers me.

Mathias 1:07:00

Hmm. Yeah. You, you, you know, any fair, any ways to work through that faster dude? Or is that healthy

Gage 1:07:09

that, that, like I said, that's a balance from the, like the dark side. You know what I'm saying? balance. A balance man. Like that's something that I'm still, I, it's something that I could change because I have, like, I, I know what I'm capable of. I have good, like self-confidence, like, okay, that's never a problem It's more how do I motivate myself and keep myself there to stay hungry.

Mathias 1:07:30

Okay. Is that not a natural state for you? Like it needs to be. Active for you to,

Gage 1:07:35

not

Mathias 1:07:35

all the time stay hungry.

Gage 1:07:36

Not all the time, but I also don't turn it off if it just comes to me naturally, which is, eh, somewhat, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Not like, it's not like, like when I said I'm a failure, like sometimes I, that's not something that I bring up all the time, but I'm talking about like, stuff that I've lost that bothers me. Like that's small stuff, small games, whatever, that like, you know, creep in my head or whatever. That keeps me up till 2:00 AM you know? Um, but it also makes me, me, you know, see, if I didn't have that, would we have won every short court game that we played? If I didn't have that, would I have the success that I, success that I have? So it's not something that I really wanna change because I know that I'm very confident, like, as a player, it doesn't like, translate on the court. Like I, I break down after a point or anything like that, like, you know? I don't think about that on the court. It's more afterwards, it like it. Right. Not every game too, but not every game too.'cause sometimes I'm like, oh, you know, it didn't go away. Like I'm, because, so I think you'd be multifaceted to be able to think that way too at times.

Mathias 1:08:28

Right? It is so interesting that that dark side of high performance, like we were saying earlier with like Serena Williams and like Tiger Woods is another one I was thinking of when we were talking about all that stuff. Like the, the motivation that comes from like, uh, maybe it's fear or maybe it's, uh, pressure or all those things. But I think it's interesting like finding a way to use that.'cause most of, a lot of my career, I would try to, uh, like diminish the moment to try to make myself comfortable again rather than just embracing all those things. The fear, pressure, the staying up at night, um, maybe using those to my advantage, if you know what I mean.

Gage 1:09:11

Like, when you say that, do you mean like, oh, it's just a volleyball, it's a balloon off the ground game, or it's just like, yeah,

Mathias 1:09:16

yeah. Or like, I dunno, I'm serving at the end of a, a matching in the university volleyball, and I'm like, oh, it's just university. Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna play like pro one day. So I is like barely any pressure or like saying that things don't matter, even though I truly believe they do. I think that was like a strategy that I tried to use for a while was like, bring the moment down to a level where I was comfortable with, rather than raising myself up to the, the, the level of the moment, if that makes sense.

Gage 1:09:49

As long as the hunger, like as long as the demeanor doesn't change, like you can, like, like you play with guys all the time that are just so casual and relaxed, like, like, Like, you see like Brazil sometimes and like soccer or you see like, or even volleyball, like they're just like, their style is just different and that's their style. like some people need to be like way more relaxed, way more relaxed before games. So that helps you play better. For sure. Do it for me personally, if I go out there and I'm chillaxing I will be the worst volleyball player on both teams. Without a doubt. I, that's just not in me unfortunately. Like, I'm not like a guy that just says the laissez-faire things. Now in a flow state that, you know, to be like, like this all the time, but like focused now also, does that have to do with my position too? Maybe. You know where I'm right. Have free balls for 45 minutes straight. It's hard to stay hungry. You know what I'm saying? At times. That's also a question I ask myself too. it's uh, it's more what is your play style, what works for you, and if you need to be more chill, more relaxed to play, however you need to get there. You get there.

Mathias 1:10:53

Right.

Gage 1:10:54

Yeah.

Mathias 1:10:56

Did that come naturally to you or did you do some experimentation? Finding, like trying different ways of being

Gage 1:11:04

I think when you, when you play. In terms of, in terms of, to find, to find like what works for me.

Mathias 1:11:11

Yeah, exactly.

Gage 1:11:12

My whole life it was all like high, high stress, high stress, high stress, high stress. And I thrived in that situation when like, I'm same with Joe, when like stuff's expected more from me or when that level is there, I usually arrive. But also it takes a big toll on me, not a big toll, but then that's when I'm like, I get to that place. And sometimes you, like I said of like, like in the, like I've always expected myself to rise this big moment. And when I don't, that's something I had to learn is okay, not, not letting, like,'cause I said there's a time and a place to be like, yo, like to reach that dark place. You know what I'm saying? You have to use this motivation rather than dragging you down. I think after a game. Um. To, I'll give you an example. Berlin last year, I remember I was playing so bad in the series, in the finals and I just like would lay at the end, like I would lay the opposite side of my bed. I would just lay, I was just, after the game, my head would be off the bed. I'd like, what am I doing? You know? But I'd also would kind of be like, okay, here we go, like the next day, here we go. Like, like, and I was hungry than never at practice. and then I played decently, but also at times when I relaxed, I realized I'm like relaxing too much. I'm not playing well. I had to be like, go to that dark place, but like, you're doing this, this, this. You know what I'm saying?

Mathias 1:12:24

Right. Just being intentional, I guess, with like, monitoring yourself and what you need in the moment.

Gage 1:12:30

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Know yourself, man. If you, after a game, you have to be like a, I don't wanna think about it all then.

Mathias 1:12:36

Right.

Gage 1:12:37

You get to that place. Do it.

Mathias 1:12:39

Cool. Uh, I want to talk about just national team quick. Mm-hmm. Uh, before the end here. Sure. Uh,'cause yeah, we went through club and university and national team. We've talked about pro lots. Um, what, uh, what's that process like getting from university to the national team? And then I wanna hear about why you guys decided not to continue playing.

Gage 1:13:02

Yeah. Also, also I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll ask for Joe Ears. Like I said, his back's killing him and we have like a six hour, uh, over the night. But I'll talk to him too. He's okay. He's doing okay though. Um, I can talk about myself first for myself. Um. My, well, actually no, I'll talk about Joe'cause he's older. Joe was, like I said, unfortunately had to play that Lao position and I was there every single time he was there. Um, it was something where it was like debated back in his head of, don't wanna keep doing this. Like, it's like, it, it is almost like, it's like you're on the team, but it's also like, you gotta ask yourself, am I enjoying this? Like, you know what I'm saying? This is what I wanna do. If, if they'll bear, if they're moving in a position that's miserable and you don't see yourself ever liking it, it's not worth it. It doesn't matter if it's the national team, doesn't matter if it's the Peewee League team. You know what I'm saying? Like, so you gotta have enough self-respect to realize that. And so he did. So he kept doing international team and then he got invited to the national team gym and they're like, oh, Berro. And he is like, nah, man. But then all of a sudden it starts popping out Hawaii and then they're like, okay, setter. Cool, et cetera, I'll come. But then also when he got there, he spent an entire summer there and they said one thing, but another thing happened. So he was like, why would I keep doing this? Like I said, my brother, respect for my brother, he is always been kind of thrown around by some coaches and always then disproving those coaches and then still disrespected. So it's something where that was for him. Like I said, I was, I was here, I kind of saw everything. It was, it was more of an easier decision in terms of like, Hey, like I'm not gonna do it. But in terms of your initial question about the, about getting, it was getting into it, right? Yeah. Getting into the junior international team is honestly, a lot of it's political, like if I'm being honest, if a lot of it's political, but also you have to be usually on and political. I mean, you usually have to be on one of the top teams or like top five recruit if you wanna be seen. And in America, these giant tournaments, they can say like, for example. Like, and now it's, this is like 10 years ago, so like, it could have changed now, but like back in the day, it was something where it's like they know the team, they, like, for example, you have nationwide tryouts and stuff. Like after a big tournament, they would host a tryout, you know? They know the team. Right. You know, there's no way, you don't know, tell 12 of the top guys that are gonna be on the team. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And you know, and then you had different like levels of like other teams you could make and that's how you would do it In America, I think it was at our time, it was by the time there could be a junior national team, it was junior national team and then a one, A two, A three. But before it was two young junior international team. It was a one, A two, A three, you know?

Mathias 1:15:41

Yeah.

Gage 1:15:42

A lot of people would make like teams and everything, and I'm sure they had a great experience at the USA camps, but in terms of actually making the team and getting in the pipeline, that's how it works. Now, once you've been that junior team, you go to, you know, you go to college and you have a, you're somewhat of a foot in the door as a junior national member, youth national member. And I think there's one more team you can make the U 21 team that you can make in college that you can actually go to. And then again, you, if you make that, you do it a good you. And then, but there's been so many players in the national team that have been to the national team pipeline that have never even sniffed close to a junior USA team. And a lot of players that have been in the junior USA team that have not even, that just didn't pan out. And that's just how it You know, people get more physical, they, it's a different game. It's a different game as you get older and maybe, and then all of a sudden a lot of people who put in the work during college or panned out during college, those are the ones who make it. So do the junior teams, are they looking at the junior teams? Yes. But if you're looking to be like a college player or in the national team gym, they're not gonna take your junior national team experience into consideration. They're gonna get the best guys to go in the gym. That just is what it is. It is a great experience. You should do it for sure, but does it give you a advantage? I would say playing well in college gives you more advantage to be on the USA junior national team. Um, so yeah, so that's just kind of how it works for the us. And then, like I said, you play well pro the biggest thing that the, the biggest problem with Pro And in terms of like, um, in terms of, uh, what's it called? Uh, uh, getting in the gym. Let's say you don't pan out in college or whatever, or not pan out, but you, but you're great in college but just didn't get the spotlight, you know?'cause obviously the teams with Spotlight get more recognition. You play overseas, it's way harder because America, the US wasn't great at recognizing talent like these pieces that were overseas. Like take, take a good friend Jordan, for example, he was doing junior national team and then he went to Stanford. He had a good individual career, but Stanford wasn't a great team back in the day. So he didn't get Spotlight went overseas, MVP of the German League. No college international team. He had to text them like two years later to get the gym vi l roster played, won the French League, was in Italy for a little bit here, and then, and then go on to do big things, you know, and he had to reach out to them, So that's kinda how it works. Then for me personally, I, I didn't do any, I was, I was actually focused on beach when I was younger. I was on the beach junior national team and, uh, and look at me now. No, it didn't mean anything, you know what I'm saying? Uh, and so, so I was doing that and, uh, and then by the U 20 ones, then I decided to do it, and then I remember I was 18 and everyone else, I was in that eight weird age range where I was 18, and everyone else was like, I. Uh, after the sophomore year of college. And so I was like far behind. So I was just trying to play catch up I guess. And I remember we, we were in worlds and I actually played some pretty cool, uh, players I saw and slash played some pretty cool players. I back in the day, but, um, I remember Miguel Lopez on the outside, Cuba. I always say this from outside the left back and he hit it on top of my head'cause he was hitting from such a high spot and he hit it so hard. It was like here from the outside. I was like, I've never had that happen ever in my life, ever. You know, but this kid, this guy, like 21, which is unreal. So, yeah. So then for me it was, uh, you know, I went through college. I didn't do national team because my dad made me work in the summers. And because he's like, if, because we get partial scholarships here in America, So Work off my money that, you know, that they were paying for, for my dad's club, coaching, cleaning, everything. And so I got invited my, after my sophomore year of college, second year. So then, junior, senior year, same thing. And then, yeah, after that we started out a system and then we consciously made the decision and I was like, you know what? We're gonna see this through. We can't really be successful without a system and be successful with the national team. Vice versa. Right. That's why we live in an RV in the summer.

Mathias 1:19:49

It's not a bad life.

Gage 1:19:50

Yeah. It's not a bad life. It's cool. We, uh, we, uh, we love it. We love it. Yeah. It's tough times, don't get me wrong. It's brutal at times.

Mathias 1:19:56

for sure.

Gage 1:19:57

Literally asked for it. So here we are.

Mathias 1:20:00

how are athletes treated? Like what do you get when you play on the national team in terms of like housing and meals and like funding, all that stuff?

Gage 1:20:09

Well, obviously there's, I think Mike, I can answer this better than I can. I can from what I, I can tell you from what I hear I think this year it change. That's what people like, uh, shout out to Michael Wright. He's in our, he was my set this year. He is, he got invited to VNL roster. He said that at this change that they're gonna be more, I think, lenient towards the young guys. The, basically the more you play in this, in on the national team, every like, year by year, I think it's year by year, um, the more like stipend and money you get.

Mathias 1:20:39

Mm-hmm. What, uh, what would be the, the starting point and what could you get up to?

Gage 1:20:46

This is the question. Uh, I mean, I remember you can, I think you receive low is like. 300 bucks or whatever. Like in college when before NIL they actually, what they did was, um, they covered your costs. So if you bring receipts Mm. We would be going, I'd be like, guys, we're going. Uh, when I did do a little bit of na, the national team, I'd say, guys we're going, uh, Korea Grill, baby on me, let's go. And I just, they look at me receipts, I'd be like, all me baby. That was all me. You know what I'm saying? I got this boys get the receipt covered.

Mathias 1:21:22

Really? That's amazing.

Gage 1:21:24

Sure. So then for housing, I know also they gave me like for young guys, they'll give you housing. I think they give you the option of giving you a housing. Whether it's an apartment with a, like, like I think they did like a, Joe had an apartment. Four people total, two people per room. You know, two rooms. Yeah. I had one, one time I was in a house with a bunch of guys. It was really nice with like a pool and everything. It was back, it was back's a little better here. Um, yeah. Right. Joe.

Joe 1:21:49

Yeah, I am all good. So I, he's not, he's not,

Gage 1:21:51

so we have, we have a tournament here in, in, in about a week here, and he is not even playing, he's not playing for a while. So he's, uh, hobbing through that season here, but I think you're in Joe. Um, so, so then, yeah, so Joe, I mean, I had like a h like there was a huge house one time I stayed in a room, but now I, I heard they're doing less of that and they're, I mean, I don't know. We'll see. I don't really know what's happening now in terms of how much money you can make if you do, you know, per month, like much you've heard. I

Joe 1:22:18

think the max of 10,000 and then Yeah. It fluctuates depending on, yeah. I don't know what exactly.

Gage 1:22:23

I heard at one point they were like doing like, per games, you're getting paid this much money too. Yeah. Or something that's in

Joe 1:22:29

the VNL per win and per loss and yeah, there's a bunch of stuff that goes into like outside

Mathias 1:22:33

of prize money.

Joe 1:22:35

Yeah.

Mathias 1:22:36

Interesting. That's pretty cool.

Gage 1:22:38

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think, like I said, stuff changes now. That's what we, that's what we've seen. But like I said, the more experienced guys get pour paid more money.

Mathias 1:22:46

Cool. Okay. I, uh, I want to talk about this because it's, uh, it's interesting to me that we use a different ball in Canada than you guys do down in the states

Gage 1:22:57

that Well, yeah, that's stupid. I love the mc casa ball. Shout mc ca ball.

Mathias 1:23:00

I love. Yeah. And I'm curious, I'm curious, what if what you guys think, like, does uh, does that change the game at all between Canada and the states and like what was that adjustment like going from the molten into the ma casa like once you got to the pro or national team level?

Gage 1:23:15

I think it prepare, it prepares you way better to be which

Mathias 1:23:18

one?

Gage 1:23:19

The ma casa prepares you way better for what if you, for the future, you

Mathias 1:23:23

know? Right. Do you think it's, do you think it has a different, makes a difference on like hand contact and spin serving and stuff? Yeah. Yeah. Because the molten is easier to spin serve.

Gage 1:23:32

Yeah. The molten, I mean the molten, it's funny little was to explaining, I, I, I threw a lot of balls back in my, I, but I guess I used to be an hot side hitter. Big deal. Um, so. The molten one just carries man, like, but you can balance it super, like it's so heavy and then you float it, it just, it's like a rock. It just keeps going. Masa, that thing moves a lot and I used to hate it'cause at junior tournaments we would be going and um, playing with Masa sometimes down in certain regions and I'd be like, the float, the float iss too much. But now I'm like, dude, I prefer that passing out way more. And I'm glad I like that a lot more because it's just way better. Any thoughts Joe?

Joe 1:24:11

Yeah, I think it's better. I think everybody in the world should play the same ball as that is.

Mathias 1:24:15

So you guys are anti molten and then anti Yeah,

Gage 1:24:18

I mean anti Mol for sure. Pro Masa for sure. I mean, yeah, sure.

Mathias 1:24:23

Okay. I heard it here first. Yeah, for

Gage 1:24:26

sure. As a pastor and as a setter.

Mathias 1:24:30

Cool. Okay, and last question boys. What, uh, what would be your advice to your younger self?

Joe 1:24:38

watch more volleyball.

Gage 1:24:40

Watch more volleyball. Yeah.

Joe 1:24:41

Is accessible. You learn so much from watching.

Gage 1:24:46

I would say continue that the path you're on.

Mathias 1:24:51

Don't change a thing. Don't change how to dig with your thing.

Gage 1:24:54

Learn how to do with your, yeah. Turn around and start digging the other way a lot. Well, I don't see what I'm look at that I don't like to, I wouldn't change anything actually. And not that I'm perfect. I, I have so many, I made so many mistakes. Still am gonna make so many mistakes. I'm a guy that I'm like, you know what? That's just what makes me, me.

Mathias 1:25:14

Enjoy the ride.

Gage 1:25:15

Enjoy the ride, man. Enjoy the ride. Don't change your thing.

Mathias 1:25:19

Love it. All righty. I think that wraps up episode number 36 of the Pit to Pearl Podcast. Thanks everyone for listening and signing off.

Gage 1:25:30

Good man,

1:25:32

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